Joe Paterno is Dead

For real this time (unlike last night).






145 replies
  1. 1
    cathyx says:

    This is a good lesson for those willing to learn from it. It doesn’t matter how successful or how much good you do in life because if you also do something horrendous, that will be your legacy.

  2. 2
    WyldPirate says:

    Damn, that was fast.

  3. 3
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    As I indicated in the previous thread, I can’t help but feel that the scandal that resulted in his firing form Penn State contributed to his demise. For one thing, he was 85. For another thing, he was fighting cancer, and the scandal must have affected his ability to fight that.

    His legacy is badly tarnished. Winningest Div I coach, yeah, but geeze, basically looking the other way at what his one time heir apparent was doing…

  4. 4
    billgerat says:

    Joe Paterno goes deep.

  5. 5
    JPL says:

    Work was his life. My condolences to his family.

  6. 6
    shortstop says:

    It’s unfortunate that he didn’t live for the Sandusky case(s) to make its way through the courts.

  7. 7

    cue the battle between those who will refuse to have any perspective whatsoever about children’s lives being ruined (to protect “his legacy”) vs. those who will not recognize that now is the time to merely show a little respect for the man’s family. What an ugly situation, all around.

    RIP Joe Paterno.

  8. 8
    Elizabelle says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Yeah, I think so too.

    Rest in Peace, Coach Paterno.

    Although he was living on a good reputation long after Sandusky’s preying on young boys should have come to light.

    With transferring house title to his wife some time ago: JoePa was waiting for the other shoe to drop.

    I wonder if the interview with Sally Jenkins of the WaPost was one of the last things on his to do list.

    It ran last Sunday. January 15.

    He is dead this Sunday.

  9. 9
    AuntSis says:

    Well, I certainly hoped he asked for forgiveness on his deathbed. Because, you know, that apparently makes everything ok for your past transgressions. That’s a rather sweet deal, dont ya think!!

  10. 10

    There is an opportunity here for me to shut up and I think I’ll avail myself of the opening.

    kthxbai

  11. 11
    geg6 says:

    Very sad that his legacy has been so tarnished that it is the enabling of child abuse that he will be remembered for and not the thousands of students that he mentored and donated to. My sister will never forget the many kindnesses he showed to her in the two years that she would sit in the football office suite, waiting for a ride from the academic advisor for the players who lived here in Beaver County and drove home every weekend. JoePa always stopped to talk to her and ask how her studies were going and encouraged her to stick things out regardless of how much she HATED the University Park campus (back then, you had to complete at UP no matter what). My sister has been angry, anguished, and sad, in turn, over this whole episode and she is typical of alumni.

    It will be full on mourning at work tomorrow, with those of us who aren’t alums or who don’t have our identities wrapped up in all things Blue and White (that’s me…only got my MEd from PSU) holding our tongues and staying out of all conversations about it. And those here who are saying that being fired probably sped up his demise, they are probably correct, but better him than the University, which probably would not have survived his terrible choices and untrammeled power.

  12. 12
    Elizabelle says:

    His time was running out. From Sally Jenkins’ story last Sunday (and she is a masterful writer):

    STATE COLLEGE, PA. — Joe Paterno sat in a wheelchair at the family kitchen table where he has eaten, prayed and argued for more than a half-century. All around him family members were shouting at each other, yet he was whispering. His voice sounded like wind blowing across a field of winter stalks, rattling the husks. Lung cancer has robbed him of the breath to say all that he wants to about the scandal he still struggles to comprehend, and which ended his career as head football coach at Penn State University. The words come like gusts. “I wanted to build up, not break down,” he said.
    __
    …. [at the dinner table with his family] Paterno, 85, could not eat. He sipped Pepsi over crushed ice from a cup. Once, it would have been bourbon. His hand showed a tremor, and a wig replaced his once-fine head of black hair.
    __
    Paterno’s hope is that time will be his ally when it comes to judging what he built, versus what broke down. “I’m not 31 years old trying to prove something to anybody,” he said. “I know where I am.” This is where he is: wracked by radiation and chemotherapy, in a wheelchair with a broken pelvis, and “shocked and saddened” as he struggles to explain a breakdown of devastating proportions.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

  13. 13
    Bondirotta says:

    There is now a clear roadmap for Newt White House.

    1) Romney stumbles in Monday’s debate and his tax info on Tuesday reflects clear evasion via foreign tax havens, possibly business in Iran.

    2) Romney loses Florida, his backers panic, Romney loses Nevada, media turns on him, he loses Ohio and then it’s all over.

    3) Greece does hard default in March, triggers panic in Portugal, Spain and Italy. Hungary collapses, pulling down Austria’s banking system. Italy forced to default by August by 10-year debt yields topping 12%.

    4) European banking system comes crashing down by September, forcing US government take-over of Citigroup, BAC, JPM and others. Tax-payer bill tops 500 Billion. Unemployment shoots to 12% as companies lay off employers in order to improve cash flow.

    5) Newt ekes out a narrow win in November in states devastated by the new unemployment spike – Ohio, Pennsylvania, Arizona, New Mexico, North Carolina.

  14. 14
    WyldPirate says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    His legacy is badly tarnished. Winningest Div I coach, yeah, but geeze, basically looking the other way at what his one time heir apparent was doing…

    Paterno did what he always did…covered his ass and PSU’s ass. He put those things above doing the right thing and it came back and bit him and PSU in the ass. He epitomizes what is wrong in the culture of universities as he got away with dictating to the university tto get special treatment for the players and coaches because of their ability to play a fucking game..

    The shit Paterno did is just a microcosm of what goes on in society. If you have connections to power, the rules get bent…or broken…and those folks end up getting away with all sorts of vile shit as the “rules” don’t apply to them in the way they do to regular schmoes.

  15. 15
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    I would suggest that if Colon Blow shows up to troll this thread, he get the banhammer.

  16. 16
    Elizabelle says:

    @geg6:

    I think he’ll be remembered for his kindnesses and successes too. He is just no longer one-dimensional. It’s a complicated legacy.

    If I may ask, how is Henry doing? Loved seeing that he was rallying recently.

  17. 17
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @geg6:

    Very sad that his legacy has been so tarnished that it is the enabling of child abuse that he will be remembered for and not the thousands of students that he mentored and donated to.

    This, right here, is what, for me, cuts to the bone.

    He did do so much for so many…if only he could be remembered for ONLY that.

    But, alas…

    RIP JoePa.

  18. 18
    Pococurante says:

    Cue student riot in 3… 2… 1…

  19. 19
  20. 20
    muddy says:

    It’s unfortunate that he did not do more a decade ago, it would have been over with by now. Stress does terrible things to the immune system. I have known people to get cancer or other severe illnesses during/after major stressors. I have known a couple of people with cancer who were holding it well at bay and responding well to treatment who had severe stress and suddenly the cancer went wild, time ran out really fast. Stress affects the exchanges at the cellular level.

    I wonder if holding the secret was nearly as bad for his health as the smoking. All those years, just waiting for it to come out. Hoping that the record breaking number of games would come, retirement would come, old age death would come, before someone spoke out. Not facing the loss of reputation, it makes me think of the saying about cowards dying a thousand times.

    In the end though, even if none of this came out until afterwards, didn’t he know it would still effect his reputation anyway? It’s a shame.

    I am sorry for his family, and I am sorry for the victims, who will never get to confront him. I have no doubt the extra stress added to his health probably hastened him on his way. It’s just sad all around.

  21. 21
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: That’s rarely a bad idea.

  22. 22
    slippy says:

    Being not a sports guy, my first exposure to Paterno was when the scandal broke and the god-awful cock-sucking pathetic sports media whores were all fawning over whether or not Paterno would “decide” with his towering arrogance if he should finish the season or quit while he still had a smidgeon of moral credibility left. I sat in a Bw3’s with a friend and on 50,000 tv screens around me were scintillating news items like “Joe Paterno Eats Sandwich,” “Joe is Possibly Taking A Dump,” and so on. Their sycophancy was repulsive in the extreme.

    As much as I’m sure a lot of folks would wish it wasn’t the case, the scandal that knocked Paterno off his perch is the only thing his life is about now. So that is what I am thinking about today. Paterno’s desperately mis-guided priorities, and his willingness to put children in harm’s way.

    Some people would like to forget about that and focus on some hazy good-times memory. This is like asking people to focus on Ted Bundy’s good work on the suicide hotline. Fuck Paterno’s “legacy.” He’s accessory to a horrific crime that ruined countless lives. That is what he needs to be immortalized for.

  23. 23
    Faux News says:

    I want to be clear about this: Joe Paterno is NOT a victim. I am not saying he was a bad man. However he did not know how to dial 911 to report child rape. To me it smacks of cover up. And yes, it does indeed tarnish his decades of good work at Penn State.

  24. 24
    MosesZD says:

    @slippy:

    Well said.

  25. 25
    Cacti says:

    @Bondirotta:

    Romney loses Nevada

    Won’t happen.

    Large Mormon population there. No chance in hell they pull the lever for Gnewt.

  26. 26
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @shortstop:

    It’s unfortunate that he didn’t live for the Sandusky case(s) to make its way through the courts.

    Oh come on…trials are for wimps.

    Trials have been rendered unnecessary by the omniscient and all seeing wisdom of the Balloon Juice crucitarium. Obviously, the lord god almighty has heard the lamentations of the all knowing commentariat here and thusly striken Joe Pa dead.

    So it is written, so it shall be done.

  27. 27
    EconWatcher says:

    @Bondirotta:

    Yes, it would take a combination of events like that to get Newt in the White House, and I’m not sure even then that he would win. But it’s plausible. And he would be the worst and most destructive president this country ever had, no doubt about that at all.

  28. 28
    Cacti says:

    @Faux News:

    I am not saying he was a bad man

    I’ll say it.

    Joe Paterno was a bad man. He was a successful coach, BFD.

  29. 29
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Here I am, douche. So ban me.

  30. 30
    Montysano says:

    @Bondirotta:

    Greece does hard default in March, triggers panic

    I’m amazed we’ve made it this far. Sooner or later, though, something will trigger a credit event. We’ll quickly realize that credit default swaps are mostly backed by nothing and won’t be paid, and at that point, we’ll be in unknown territory.

  31. 31
    Raven says:

    Bear Bryant died four weeks after he coached his last game, the 83 Liberty Bowl against Illinois. He was only 69 but he was done. This is not a surprise.

  32. 32
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Cacti:

    Joe Paterno was a bad man.

    Who is it that you imagine yourself to be, that you pass judgment on the totality of a person?

    Clearly, you are a bad person.

  33. 33
    kdaug says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    I would suggest that if Colon Blow shows up to troll this thread, he get the banhammer.

    C’mon. Extra Fiber!

  34. 34
    Cacti says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    Clearly, you are a bad person

    Well, it could be worse.

    I can sleep peacefully at night knowing I was never an apologist for a pedophile enabler.

  35. 35
    SFAW says:

    Joe Paterno was a bad man. He was a successful coach, BFD.

    Always a pleasure to see shit like this. Glad we can reduce his life to a sound bite. Thank FSM that complexity is only for chumps, losers, or lieberals.

    I know, if I don’t like it, too fucking bad, etc.

  36. 36
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    Colon Blow: Why don’t you regale us again with tales about how 10-year-olds might enjoy having relations with 60-year-olds. That’s always a winner.

    Cole doesn’t love me enough to let me have the banhammer, else you and that racist misogynist BO_Bill would be gone.

  37. 37

    kind of a big sendoff for a bureaucrat who just did the minimum?

    pope benedict’s statement issued condolences saying that paterno was an inspiration who always did things the right way.

  38. 38
    aimai says:

    Jesus Christ–did you people read that obit? Paterno is quoted as pretending that he didn’t know there was such a thing as “man rape.” That was a bald faced lie. “Man rape” as he put it, even of children, has been in the news for a fucks worth of eons. That Paterno pulled out the “I’m too old to know about sex” and too delicate to know about rape line to protect himself from being considered an accessory to Sandusky’s crimes is sickening. Especially in a guy who was a noted homophobe when it didn’t involve important men in his entourage.

    aimai

  39. 39
    Cacti says:

    @SFAW:

    Always a pleasure to see shit like this. Glad we can reduce his life to a sound bite. Thank FSM that complexity is only for chumps, losers, or lieberals

    Joe Paterno was a complex individual…

    Who enabled a serial pedophile.

  40. 40
    FridayNext says:

    I am something of a sports fan and respect what JoePa achieved on the field (or up in the press box in his later years) and off, but one thing that needs to be remembered is that his accomplishments in football and his generosity off the field in Happy Valley to students and the community enabled what happened in the Sandusky scandal. These are not two different legacies or two facets of a man, they are all part of one holistic whole and the very reverence he and the football team inspired made it much more likely that something like this could happen and it would be covered up. (though I admit, the acts at the center of the scandal exceeded even my own low expectations for behavior)

    The people most convinced their shit don’t stink are the ones most likely to take a dump in your living room. And the more you revere the shitter, the more you will convince yourself you don’t notice the smell.

  41. 41
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Cacti:

    OH my. Was there someone who did such a thing?

  42. 42
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:

    Not surprising that the vile miter of shit that is Ratzi the Nazi would make such a statement.

  43. 43

    @SFAW:

    i too don’t think one scandal should define paterno, even when it is a child rape ring that operated for years and touched the highest reaches of a state government and gop politics within that state.

    the risk is, that the other horrible abuses of power that went on, in the name of revenue, but also univiversity culture, and cult of personality, get buried with the man at the center of them all.

    let that nuance be that this was some one-off lapse in judgement and perspective, and let the light disinfect everything wrong throughout his tenure, and i agree.

    then if folks want to say nice things about what is left, i might politely abstain from countering them.

  44. 44
    SFAW says:

    Joe Paterno was a complex individual… Who enabled a serial pedophile.

    Yes, and Laura Bush killed her then-boyfriend. And Obama has apparently (more or less) ordered drone-assassination(s) of US citizens. And so on.

    As I said: complexity is for losers.

  45. 45

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    in the interests of not being like paterno, i made that up for levity sake.

  46. 46
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    It’s said the character of a man can be determined by the quality of his enemies.

    Thank you for holding me in a excellent light.

  47. 47
    Cacti says:

    @SFAW:

    Yes, and Laura Bush killed her then-boyfriend. And Obama has apparently (more or less) ordered drone-assassination(s) of US citizens. And so on.

    Both sides do it.

    Gotcha.

  48. 48
    burnspbesq says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    “There is an opportunity here for me to shut up and I think I’ll avail myself of the opening.”

    Mind if I sit next to you?

  49. 49
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @aimai:

    YOu know all the ins and outs of this case already, eh?

    Will you be presiding over the coming trials, self righteous know it all one?

  50. 50
    Schlemizel says:

    Humans are complex beasts. Nobody ever has been all god or all bad. What you hope for in your heros is that the good far outweighs the bad. I don’t know how to put this guys life on that scale, forget about his won/lose record. There are people he help a great deal, who may not have made it in life without his guidance and yet the bad is so ugly how to you measure that?

    The lesson I wish we would learn is that we should be more careful about putting people on pedestals and giving them unbridled power ever. But we won’t

  51. 51
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal:

    Yeah, it was too realistic for my tastes. I can imagine him saying such a thing all to easily.

  52. 52
    eemom says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    There is an opportunity here for me to shut up and I think I’ll avail myself of the opening.

    Thank you. And thank you again.

    What a bunch of assholes.

  53. 53
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @FridayNext:

    The people most convinced their shit don’t stink are the ones most likely to take a dump in your living room.

    Excellent observation regarding the BJ Self Righteous Omniscient Kool Kids, who are constantly taking dumps here in Cole’s living room.

  54. 54

    “let that nuance, be that this was not some one-off”

    if i could have edited

    let that nuance be that this was some one-off lapse in judgement and perspective, and let the light disinfect everything wrong throughout his tenure, and i agree.

  55. 55
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Schlemizel:

    Humans are complex beasts. Nobody ever has been all god or all bad. What you hope for in your heros is that the good far outweighs the bad.

    HOW FUCKING DARE YOU bring reason and compassion, and the idea of shades of grey into the Black and White Balloon Juice Dancing on JoPa’s Grave Party?

    Tacky.

  56. 56
    Gian says:

    sorry to say he didn’t live to see national legal gay marriage.
    sorry to say he didn’t see sandusky go to prison.

    his health status about cancer though, I remember hearing the broken hips and stuff, but not cancer. I wonder if being 85, and having lost his kingdom in disgrace he refused treatment.

  57. 57
    OzoneR says:

    @Faux News:

    I am not saying he was a bad man.

    I am

  58. 58
    OzoneR says:

    The lesson of Joe Paterno- if you’re really famous for something, people won’t hold you accountable for anything. If only Casey Anthony played football.

  59. 59
    OzoneR says:

    @Schlemizel:

    What you hope for in your heros is that the good far outweighs the bad.

    Well in the case of Joe Paterno, I’d say the bad outweighs the good- more boys were raped under his tenure than championships he won.

  60. 60
    SFAW says:

    Both sides do it. Gotcha.

    My, my, aren’t we precious in our dim-witted snarkiness.

    Since apparently clues are in short supply in your – oops, yore – neck of the woods, here’s a free one.

    Many good (or maybe not-so-bad) persons have done bad things in their lives. It may have been one thing, it may have been more than one.

    Not all of those persons deserve to have the rest of their life/lives ignored or negated because of that bad act.

    And if you’re going to attempt to flame me, yet again, please try to apply at least a little bit of your obviously-towering intellect to the problem before you do the sound bite thing again.

  61. 61
    lol says:

    “But you fuck ONE goat and…”

  62. 62
    Cacti says:

    @SFAW:

    My, my, aren’t we precious in our dim-witted snarkiness

    No, you really aren’t.

  63. 63
    aimai says:

    I’ve seen various attributions of this quote but the line “Count No Man Happy Until His Death” is applicable here. I’ve seen it in reference to Crassus who was once the wealthiest of men but who died, terribly, losing a battle against the Lydians. The point here is that its as silly to refuse to try to sum up Paterno as “a really good coach” with one strike against him or to try to sum him up as “Sandusky’s confederate who had a really good streak as a coach” until exactly this moment. His acts, good and bad, are ended now. Its for history, with the help of muckrakers and victims, to tell the full story. And its only now possible because the great sympathetic daddy figure has left the building.

    De mortuis? Its only of the dead that we can finally speak honestly.

    aimai

  64. 64
    Yutsano says:

    @lol:

    But you fuck ONE goat and…

    You’re Mickey Kaus.

  65. 65
    OzoneR says:

    @slippy: For more its that while he was building said legacy, the rapes were going on.

  66. 66
    SFAW says:

    No, you really aren’t.

    Thanks for living down to expectations, clueless.

  67. 67
    Hal says:

    I’m not going to shit on Paterno, but I have to say this cultures constant need to elevate Football and Basketball coaches to the status of deities is supremely irritating.

    Not to mention I will now have to wade through endless “Penn State Killed Joe Pa!” rants on the internet.

  68. 68
    SFAW says:

    but I have to say this cultures constant need to elevate Football and Basketball coaches to the status of deities is supremely irritating.

    I think it’s only certain parts of the culture, but still irritating nonetheless.

  69. 69
    Schlemizel says:

    @aimai:
    You have to admire the way they offed poor Crassius. In order to satisfy his thirst for money they poured molten silver down his throat.

    In JoePas case I guess he would have been sodomized with a championship trophy until dead.

  70. 70
    Nutella says:

    It’s been infuriating me from the beginning of the scandal that all the many important issues raised by the whole Sandusky mess are treated by so many people as a thing that affected the celebrity coach. So many issues of university governance, non-profit governance, law enforcement, and the victims’ lives are almost completely ignored while people and the press obsess about what it all means to the damn celebrity.

  71. 71
    OzoneR says:

    @Hal: I

    have to say this cultures constant need to elevate Football and Basketball coaches to the status of deities is supremely irritating.

    Oh is your wall full of

    A legendary coach and a man of great integrity. He built the Penn State program and changed college football forever. I will remember him for the good things.

    Translation: “I’m going to pretend the whole rape thing didn’t happen lest it destroy my fantasy”

  72. 72
    Schlemizel says:

    @Hal: I have to say this cultures constant need to elevate Football and Basketball coaches to the status of deities is supremely irritating.

    This x1000. Sports have gotten out of hand in this country to the determent of everyone. Well, maybe not for a hand full of millionaires & billionaires – in the short term. But for everyone & in the long run the deification of people who make their living playing games is a very bad thing.

  73. 73
    OzoneR says:

    @SFAW:

    Yes, and Laura Bush killed her then-boyfriend.

    in an accident.

    And Obama has apparently (more or less) ordered drone-assassination(s) of US citizens. And so on.

    which we constantly vent about here that he’s not getting the guff he should about that.

    It isn’t the same thing and you know it

  74. 74
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @SFAW:

    but I have to say this cultures constant need to elevate Football and Basketball coaches to the status of deities is supremely irritating.

    Or presidents, for that matter…

  75. 75
    Woodrowfan says:

    @burnspbesq: want some popcorn? I brought extra.

  76. 76
    suzanne says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Why don’t you regale us again with tales about how 10-year-olds might enjoy having relations with 60-year-olds.

    Actually, can we never ever ever hear that again? Please?

    I guess JoePa ends up with a postmodern legacy: of being two things at the same time. I am less interested in him than I am saddened by the fact that a recreational game has become the primary proxy we have for real heroism. In the end, football’s still just a meaningless game.

  77. 77
    geg6 says:

    Elizabelle, Henry seems to be doing fine. He’s eating like there is no tomorrow and barking and being the king of the house, as always. He can’t move because his back legs will never work again, but he’s faced down the Grim Reaper for now.

    As for JoePa, I revile his actions and inactions in the Sandusky case, but still can appreciate what he’s done for thousands of students, which I have seen with my own eyes from both inside and outside of the University. People are complicated and even the best of them can do evil things. I don’t live in the black and white zero sum world so many in this thread seem to, so if that makes me a bad person, so be it.

  78. 78
    slippy says:

    @lol:

    Exactly. Paterno’s apologists would like to pretend this is a complicated issue. It’s not. Several of my family members are survivors of rape. I have ZERO room in my heart for Paterno’s accomplishments that don’t involve a scathing condemnation of his accomodation of this horrific crime. NO FUCKS ARE GIVEN about his coaching career. It’s completely irrelevant since he was hiding some really, awful, horrific sleaze underneath that career.

  79. 79
    SFAW says:

    in an accident.

    in which, I believe, she was negligent (or drunk?). Or am I thinking of another former First Lady?

    which we constantly vent about here that he’s not getting the guff he should about that.

    Yes, I recall there being thousands of comments calling Obama a “bad man” for stuff like that.

    It isn’t the same thing and you know it

    The point is not that they’re the same things. The point is that using one person’s particular (in)action to reduce his/her life to a black-or-white descriptor is silly (to put it nicely).

    For example: was Ted Kennedy a BAD MAN because of Chappaquiddick? Did/does Chappaquiddick negate everything else he did in his life? (I guess Rethugs would say “Abso-fucking-lutely!”, but the rest of the world might pause to consider it.)

  80. 80
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @Hal:

    I have to say this cultures constant need to elevate Football and Basketball coaches to the status of deities is supremely irritating.

    “Coach” is the closest thing Americans have to a title of nobility, and the cult of Coach is, I think, more than irritating, especially given the college dynamic of “turning boys into men”.

    While I truly respect aimai, I think there’s a case that Penn State got locked into the past because of Paterno’s tenure, which enabled that bubble of denial. Somewhere in central PA, it was always 1960. I’ve heard accounts of that kind of thing happening elsewhere on a larger scale — Ireland in the 1980s was essentially a 1950s country, and it snapped into the present during the 1990s with the force of an earthquake.

    Paterno was probably the last of the lifers. Bear Bryant didn’t last past his final game; Bobby Bowden was eased out; Lou Holtz is seeing out his final days with occasional appearances on ESPN. The modern college coach is a millionaire for hire like Saban or Meyer, with loyalty to a contract, not an institution, and that probably means you don’t get the same timewarp.

  81. 81
    OzoneR says:

    @SFAW:

    was Ted Kennedy a BAD MAN because of Chappaquiddick? Did/does Chappaquiddick negate everything else he did in his life?

    A lot of people certainly think so.

    But Chappaquiddick would certainly have negated all the things he did in his life if he did it over and over again, or hid it for 10 years.

    One boy wasn’t raped once by one man and Patero handled it badly. Eight boys were raped and he carried the fact that the rapists got away with it for nearly 10 years.

    The fact that you apologists are reducing the rapes of eight boys and the decade-or-longer cover up to simply driving off a bridge drunk one time or a car accident shows how little you understand what you’re talking about. This is NOT one little mistake.

  82. 82
    burnspbesq says:

    @Woodrowfan:

    Thanks, but I just finished breakfast.

    Piers Morgan is an Arsenal supporter? That’s almost enough to make me root for Chelsea.

  83. 83
    NCSteve says:

    No one is a bigger advocate of the appreciation of the ugly reality that life is all about moral complexity than I am.

    Once you get out of your mid-twenties, you either figure out that most of life consists of trying to distinguish between shades of grey in the dark so you can pick the one that’s lightest, or you go crazy. One of the few either/or choices you get to make.

    But there’s another part of that reality, and that is that sometimes you do get hit with a choice that is not between shades of grey but rather, as the guy in the wildly popular children’s novels said, between what is right and what is easy.

    Because it often turns out that on those rare occasions when you are are presented with a choice between black and white in a brightly lit room, all that illumination enables you to also see that choosing white also entails paying a high personal cost, and often even exacting a high price from others who are close to you.

    And all that time spent choosing between shades of grey in the dark (and congratulating yourself for having done it correctly and even on occasion, making the greys you had to choose lighter) can create an opportunity to rationalize that cost into something that turns white to grey. Then, having turned white to grey, it’s an easy step to use that same alchemy of self-interest to convince yourself the black is really grey as well. Then, suddenly, your choice, once again, is the infinitely more familiar, and thus less scary, choice between shades of grey, so all you have to do is close your eyes to shut out all that light and pick the one that’s easy.

    In the first half of the last century, millions of people in a certain middle European country whose mere mention is deemed sufficient to shut down Internet discussions got hit with these choices between black and white repeatedly. Many of those people were good fathers and wives, loving parents who attended church and contributed to charity and were kind to animals and generally lived lives that should have created the kinds of legacies anyone would be proud to leave behind. But for thousands and thousands of them, all that choosing between shades of grey gave them the means of blinding themselves to the fact that they were making choices that would sweep every good thing they’d ever done off the balance scales of their lives, even if the good they’d done continued to benefit others for years thereafter.

    Nor was that the unique product of a thankfully unique time in history. It’s happened over and over again. To the men in the ships who threw a third to the half of every “cargo” over the side during the Middle Passage and to the purchasers of those cargos, including a former president or two, who couldn’t face the choice between doing the right thing and impoverishing themselves and their family.

    That’s the lesson we need to draw: there are choices you can face in this world that, made wrong, cause you to forfeit the right to plead all the good you’ve ever done in mitigation.

    And although there are no trails of corpses thrown to the trailing sharks or converted into mysterious clouds of ash because of Joe Paterno’s choice, it’s also true that the things he chose to save were, in the grand scheme of things, so utterly insignificant compared to the price paid by the boys he sacrificed to save them, the things he saved simply cannot be pled–by him or anyone else–in mitigation.

    It’s a tragedy, not least for him. But to pretend like there’s any good that Paterno did that justified or excused the price he chose to make others pay for it only compounds the tragedy.

    Which paradoxically, is less than he deserves. He’s gone now. He is beyond the need for comfort or support. To refuse to face that reality is to refuse to accept this last bitter lesson of his life, and thus refuse the only good that can really come of this tragedy.

  84. 84
    SFAW says:

    The fact that you apologists are reducing the rapes of eight boys and the decade-or-longer cover up to simply driving off a bridge drunk one time or a car accident shows how little you understand what you’re talking about. This is NOT one little mistake.

    The fact that you are characterizing a person’s resulting death as “simply driving off a bridge drunk one time” or a death resulting from a drunk/negligent driving incident as “a car accident” shows how little you understand what you’re talking about. Or, more likely, you’re ignoring inconvenient facts because they don’t fit nicely with the bullshit point you’re trying to make.

    And, by the way, what really happened at Chappaquiddick was probably covered up for a lot longer than the Sandusky horror. The story the Kennedys (and the local press) finally settled on was not, shall we say, unassailable.

    For what it’s worth: I thought and think that Teddy was a great Senator and American, and I do not think that his entire career should be negated by whatever happened at Chappaquiddick. I do NOT think Joe Paterno deserves to be placed in the same “league” (so-to-speak) as Teddy, and I have little use for college football coaches (although Paterno allegedly took more of an interest in ensuring his players were more than meat on the hoof). But I still think the totality of his life deserves more than a “he (probably) helped cover up for Sandusky, so he’s a BAD MAN” broadbrush.

  85. 85
    Brachiator says:

    @slippy:

    As much as I’m sure a lot of folks would wish it wasn’t the case, the scandal that knocked Paterno off his perch is the only thing his life is about now

    Has not even been mentioned in many sports headlines on the radio or in a recen BBC news story.

  86. 86
    forked tongue says:

    I don’t think embodying the bizarre myth that there’s anything noble about a bunch of cretins running around giving each other concussions in order to move a ball past each other is as bad as protecting a pedophile. But it’s pretty lame, and makes the world worse as far as I’m concerned, so I actually wouldn’t give a damn about this guy even if he hadn’t protected a pedophile.

  87. 87
    OzoneR says:

    @NCSteve:

    it’s also true that the things he chose to save were, in the grand scheme of things, so utterly insignificant compared to the price paid by the boys he sacrificed to save them

    for me, it goes even beyond that. He had the opportunity to live up to his reputation and blow the whistle on the abuse. Maybe he couldn’t save the children who had already been abused (I disagree, but that’s debatable), but he could’ve helped them get justice. He choose not to, therefore he forfeits his reputation. End of story. He allowed it go on, he allowed the criminals to remain.

    And by continuing to keep him on his pedestal, we’re telling the world “a lot of good exonerates you from any bad,” we give truly evil people an out.

    And the problem is, we as a society don’t believe that. We still support capital punishment and many of us don’t believe in rehabilitation for common criminals, and yet, when we throw a celebrity or an athlete or any powerful person in the mix, suddenly we do. It’s ridiculous. It’s another example of the glaring hypocrisy and double standard that has come to define this country.

    And as for the question of chappaquiddick above, I don’t know that i would’ve voted for Ted Kennedy in 1970 had I been a Massachusetts voter over that incident. I perhaps would have on issues, but his GOP opponent Josh Spaulding was a pretty liberal Republican too. Anyway, Ted Kennedy did pay for the incident- with his presidential ambitions.

  88. 88
    OzoneR says:

    @SFAW:

    And, by the way, what really happened at Chappaquiddick was probably covered up for a lot longer than the Sandusky horror.

    What? That would only be the case if we found out about Chappaquiddick in 1978.

  89. 89
    Kola Noscopy says:

    Time and again, it’s been shown that those who condemn others most viciously, usually have something significant of their own to hide.

    What is it you’d like to share with the group, Ozone?

  90. 90
    eemom says:

    @SFAW:

    I agree with you, and I just cannot believe the amount of self-righteous bullshit on this thread.

    For example, the assumption that Paterno made a conscious decision to sacrifice children for the sake of the football team — rather than, just maybe, he was freaked out about what he heard and wanted to put it out of his mind. A cowardly, and by no means forgivable response — but hardly shocking considering his age and background. And, as has been said many times before in the other threads on this subject, a tragically common reaction among adults who find out about sexual abuse.

  91. 91
    Wordsmith says:

    @WyldPirate:

    He epitomizes what is wrong in the culture of universities as he got away with dictating to the university to get special treatment for the players and coaches because of their ability to play a fucking game..

    The shit Paterno did is just a microcosm of what goes on in society. If you have connections to power, the rules get bent…or broken…and those folks end up getting away with all sorts of vile shit as the “rules” don’t apply to them in the way they do to regular schmoes.

    Probably why I so don’t care. Since the ‘breakdown’ in which the Catholic Church responded (& continues to respond) so pathetically to its own despicable, unfinished chapter, I have NO desire to even feign mercifulness to anyone involved.

  92. 92
    SFAW says:

    Anyway, Ted Kennedy did pay for the incident- with his presidential ambitions.

    And Joe Paterno paid by losing his job, although certainly not when he should have. But the question here – or at least, the one I’ve taken issue with – is not whether Paterno paid, but whether he deserves to be called “a bad man” because of it. I don’t think he was a saint, but I don’t necessarily think he was “a bad man”.

    What? That would only be the case if we found out about Chappaquiddick in 1978.

    I’m not sure the full story on Chappaquiddick is currently known. And I’m not even including the various threads (“He killed her because she was pregnant by him!”) subscribed to by various psycho-wingnut factions. Enough things were initially covered up, and later “massaged”, that I still question whether the full, complete truth has ever come out. Maybe I’m the only one who thinks that way, maybe not. On the other hand, I stopped caring about Chappaquiddick a long time ago.

  93. 93
    SFAW says:

    eemom –

    Thanks. I pretty much agree with your assessment. But my support may not be a good thing, based on some other comments here.

    But at least they haven’t threatened me as they have Kola. Yet.

  94. 94
    OzoneR says:

    @SFAW:

    But the question here – or at least, the one I’ve taken issue with – is not whether Paterno paid, but whether he deserves to be called “a bad man” because of it. I don’t think he was a saint, but I don’t necessarily think he was “a bad man”.

    Here’s my problem. If Joe Paterno was a typical working shulb, would we forgive him or would he be a “bad man?”

  95. 95
    OzoneR says:

    @eemom:

    For example, the assumption that Paterno made a conscious decision to sacrifice children for the sake of the football team—rather than, just maybe, he was freaked out about what he heard and wanted to put it out of his mind.

    That’s even worse, so he wasn’t arrogant, he was a coward.

  96. 96
    Mr Stagger Lee says:

    @Schlemizel: I hate to break the news to you, but I doubt Nobel Prize winning physicists, poets,playwrights, writers of factual events, and others in the egg-head world, will ever reach the adulation of an American Idol runner-up. Perhaps that has been this way for a long time. But then again those physicists,poets, playwrights, writers of factual events and others in the egg-head world will outlast them in future study.

  97. 97
    OzoneR says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    Time and again, it’s been shown that those who condemn others most viciously, usually have something significant of their own to hide.

    Oh drop dead.

  98. 98
    OzoneR says:

    @SFAW:

    But at least they haven’t threatened me as they have Kola. Yet.

    Well unlike Kola, you have’t actually defended raping a child

  99. 99
    shortstop says:

    Yes, people are defined by much more than the worst thing we ever do. And so shall Paterno be. But the thing about those worst things is that to obtain redemption and forgiveness in almost any way we define it — in organized religion, in the justice system, in friendships, in the workplace — there has to be some sort of admission of wrongdoing and expression of repentance.

    Paterno was who he was and it was unlikely that he was going to face up to the enormity of his actions after all those years of shoving them into the dark corners. Old dogs learn new tricks with ease; old people frequently don’t, especially when they’ve long been accorded demigod status and had excuses made for them by way too many people. So it would have been understandable, if wholly revolting, if he had simply refused ever to comment on this publicly after his firing. But of the three choices he had at the very end of his life (and he had full knowledge that his life was ending): 1) say nothing, 2) make a public apology to the children whose lives were irrevocably harmed and the innocent people at PSU, or 3) take no responsibility and keep making ridiculous excuses for himself, he chose door #3.

    And that says a lot about the kind of person he was.

  100. 100
    OzoneR says:

    @Kola Noscopy: No, you know what, you’re right, I do have something to hide.

    My childhood friend was abused by a minister at a church camp. No one did a damn thing to stop it lest the church look bad, nor did anyone listen to me or my friends when we warned them. Instead I got punished for “making up stories.” The adults did nothing. He ran away from home and was found dead on a Chicago street a few years later- overdosed on heroin. I have no idea where the minister is now. I hope he’s dead and I hope he suffered. And I can never forgive my small Indiana town for what they didn’t do.

    As it turns out, it happens more than we imagine. And with that, I’m leaving this conversation because I can see why what happened to Kevin happened and why it will never, ever change.

  101. 101
    SFAW says:

    Here’s my problem. If Joe Paterno was a typical working shulb, would we forgive him or would he be a “bad man?”

    I don’t know. Truly. I expect some would label him a bad man others would say he did a terrible thing (but not necessarily classify him as a “bad man”).

    That’s even worse, so he wasn’t arrogant, he was a coward.

    Good people do cowardly things. It happens all the time. And, I expect, bad people do courageous things. (And, I expect, it happens all the time.) And all variations in between. Does one cowardly act (or even two?) re-assign a “good” person into the “bad” person category? Does one courageous act (or even two?) re-assign a “bad” person into the “good” person category? For me, the response is: “It depends”.

    For some, the world is black-and-white, cut-and-dried, everything fits neatly into whatever Weltanschauung they have, and that’s that. I have found that the world is a little more gray than that.

  102. 102
    SFAW says:

    OzoneR –

    I am truly sorry to hear about the horrors you and your friend went through.

    I believe it’s getting better, but I can understand why you might not.

  103. 103
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @OzoneR:

    Ozie, you are among caring people here. You can tell us…what is it in your past that makes it so important to you that Joe Paterno, a man about whom you know almost nothing, be condemned as a BAD MAN?

    What is it you’re projecting on him so that thru him you might be punished and vilified?

  104. 104
    OzoneR says:

    @SFAW:

    Good people do cowardly things.

    and they carry those things with them for the rest of their lives. They are given opportunities to make up for them. Paterno never took that opportunity.

  105. 105
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @OzoneR:

    OK, there is no way to know if that story is true or not; and even if it is, it still doesn’t answer why you feel qualified to condemn Joe Paterno, a man about whom you know almost nothing.

    If your story is true, you need to deal with it in some constructive healing way, rather than carry the damage around with you forever and let it color every assessment you make.

    And since we’re all coming clean with real stories (or not, who can know?) let it be known that I was molested by a much older doctor during a sports physical when I was about 14. I kept it to myself, but he was later turned in by another guy in my class, and dealt with by whatever authorities deal with these things.

    Honestly, I did not think it was that big a deal, what he did to me and I didn’t think much about it after a few days. What’s a hand job from your doctor when kids your age are starving on the other side of the world or being gunned down on the other side of the street? I’m telling you: It was no big deal.

    So sue me. Sorry I didn’t suffer enough and allow a one time hand job to ruin my life.

    Shades of grey, people…

  106. 106
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    You really are a shitty excuse for a human being.

  107. 107
    Moonbatting Average says:

    @SFAW:

    For me, the response is: “It depends”.

    Right. The thing is, many people here are coming down on a different side of the ledger than you. It doesn’t mean that they are incapable of recognizing complexity in a human. It may just be something like:

    enabling child rape by inaction + homophobia + extreme right-wing views > coaching a football team + being active in a small community in central PA

    And people (mostly) aren’t coming after you and eemom like they are Kola because, unlike Kola, you are at trying to make your points cogently and without being a complete asshole (though appear pretty dismissive). Kola is just a useless prick

  108. 108
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    You really are a shitty excuse for a human being.

    Good god, after the vile things people like you and Ozone have said to and called me here, that feeble murmur cuts no ice.

    Cole’s got it right in one of the tags: Vicious Jackals.

  109. 109
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Moonbatting Average:

    And people (mostly) aren’t coming after you and eemom like they are Kola because, unlike Kola, you are at trying to make your points cogently and without being a complete asshole (though appear pretty dismissive). Kola is just a useless prick

    Waaaaaah….I learned long ago that no matter how cogently one argues here, if one maintains an unpopular stance, one will be vilified regardless, so what’s the use.

    Fuck you running, douche.

  110. 110
    OzoneR says:

    @Kola Noscopy: I barely said anything to you, Good lord

  111. 111
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @OzoneR:

    Past threads and past encounters, my friend.

  112. 112
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    I have not yet begun to start with you, cumstain.

    Wish I had some of my more, erm, expressive NCOs handy to go after you with both barrels.

  113. 113
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @SFAW:

    In Joe Pa’s case, it’s serial bad things in the name of covering his own ass, his football program, and his school. The fear of scandal bred even worse scandal.

  114. 114
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Wish I had some of my more, erm, expressive NCOs handy to go after you with both barrels.

    OH you big butch, death threat-spewing embecile.

    SO sexy.

  115. 115
    Thumper says:

    Paterno did not rape anyone. Sandusky allegedly did. Paterno did what he thought, at the time, and given what McQueary told him, was the proper manner in which to proceed. To pass along the information to the administrative head of campus security. Paterno was wrong, and he admitted he was wrong. To think that the events of 2002 did not weigh heavily upon Paterno is incorrect.

    There are few among us who have not, at one time or another, regreted not doing something we later discovered we should have done. Made amends for wrongs committed, ”cheated” on our taxes, passed by the poor soul asking for a few dollars or seeking a lift down the road.

    All of our personal sins are commissions or omissions. Not becoming involved in the dispute between others that could or did escalate to violence because it was none of our business. Knowing, within our hearts, the family down the street strapped for cash who must send a child to bed hungry, but we fail as human beings to intervene because it is not our place.

    If Paterno truly knew then what he found out later, he would have done more.

    Sadly, I believe it was that realization that contributed to his relatively swift death.

  116. 116
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    In Joe Pa’s case, it’s serial bad things in the name of covering his own ass, his football program, and his school. The fear of scandal bred even worse scandal.

    You are talking out of your ass. This thing has not been adjudicated. McQueary’s testimony is falling apart; the prosecution will likely not even use him as a witness. No one knows WHAT happened at this point.

    Except you, of course, you big studly killer you.

  117. 117
    SFAW says:

    you are at trying to make your points cogently and without being a complete asshole

    Yeah, I’m a little off my game today.

    The thing is, many people here are coming down on a different side of the ledger than you.

    Which side is that? Do they all [sic] think Paterno is a “bad man”? Or do they just think he allowed something terrible to continue, and that drops him down to the not-so-good area? (Asked because, prior to the Sandusky story surfacing, he would have been canonized at his passing.)

    Maybe I’m just squeamish, or a milquetoast, but I even have a tough time – although easier, to be sure – describing Bernard Cardinal Law as a “bad man”, and what he did was orders-of-magnitude worse than Paterno. On the other hand, I would have absolutely no problem with various types of Enhanced Interrogation Technique being practiced on Law.

  118. 118
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @SFAW:

    but I even have a tough time – although easier, to be sure – describing Bernard Cardinal Law as a “bad man”, and what he did was orders-of-magnitude worse than Paterno.

    Oh my, how uncivil of you.

    You’ll never fit in here. Black and white and passing judgment from a high throne of moral righteousness is what BJ is all about.

  119. 119
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    The evidence is out there, fuckstick. It’s painfully obvious what went on for years, and there’s no denying it.

    The scandal is real. It’s not imaginary, it’s not alleged, it’s there. Adjudication has nothing to do with the reality of the scandal…it’s the means of bringing legal remedies to the situation. The scandal is there. No legal process required for it to exist. All that remains is to document it adequately so that due process is satisfied and legal sanction can be applied.

    To deny that is to deny reality.

    Which makes you a SC Republican who voted for Noot.

  120. 120
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    All that remains is to document it adequately so that due process is satisfied and legal sanction can be applied.

    Oh don’t be silly. We don’t need no darn DOCUMENTATION, we don’t need no darn DUE PROCESS…them’s sissy words; we’ve got YOUR word for what happened and all the other hysterics in America. That’s all we need to start stringing people up.

    Which makes you a SC Republican who voted for Noot.

    Alrighty then…

  121. 121
    burnspbesq says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    “Good god, after the vile things people like you and Ozone have said to and called me here”

    All of which you have earned, over and over. You have been nothing but a dick from the first second you turned up here.

    What goes around, comes around.

  122. 122
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @burnspbesq:

    All of which you have earned, over and over.

    Spoken like the self righteous, self appointed judgey type you are. Fuck off.

  123. 123
    slippy says:

    @eemom:

    For example, the assumption that Paterno made a conscious decision to sacrifice children for the sake of the football team—rather than, just maybe, he was freaked out about what he heard and wanted to put it out of his mind.

    OH MY FUCKING GOD ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS!!! THIS IS YOUR SAD-ASS EXCUSE??????

    Jesus Christ.

  124. 124
    WyldPirate says:

    @eemom:

    Bullshit, eemom. Paterno did what he always did and swepped shit under the rug to protect his legacy. He got away with it for so long because he was a god-like figure in a cult of personality.
    Ex-PSU official saw Paterno’s dark side

    In April 2007, as many as two dozen football players forced their way into a party at an off-campus apartment and assaulted several students , including Britt’s son, Jack, who was severely beaten. Six players faced criminal charges as a result of the brawl. In the end, many of the charges against the players were dismissed, and two players pleaded guilty to misdemeanor offenses.

    In the middle of the school’s internal investigation, Triponey said Spanier ordered her to meet with Paterno. Triponey said she had repeatedly refused to discuss cases with Paterno because she didn’t want to compromise her impartiality. “The coach was not happy with that,” Triponey said in a phone interview with USA TODAY. “Many times he tried to insist upon a meeting with me, asked others to have meetings with me. Sent his wife (Sue) one time. In the middle of cases. This became a bone of contention.”

    “The coach was literally telling his players that they couldn’t cooperate with judicial affairs or they would get kicked off the team. So we were going nowhere in getting to the bottom of things,” Triponey said. “I said to the coach, ‘This would be so much easier if you would tell your players just to tell the truth.’ He was livid, and the message to me was, ‘I can’t do that. They have to play for me and I can’t ask them to rat on each other.’ The president also chimed in and said, ‘Vicky, the coach is right. We can’t expect the players to tell the truth.’ So that’s the environment that was underlying this whole debate about who’s in charge.”

  125. 125
    slippy says:

    @WyldPirate:

    “The coach was literally telling his players that they couldn’t cooperate with judicial affairs or they would get kicked off the team.

    My God, I was unaware of just how complicit Paterno was. Amazing, disgusting.

    No, this is all his life is going to be about from here on out, and anyone who says differently is gonna get an earful. I promise.

  126. 126
    WyldPirate says:

    @slippy:
    This is likely the tip of the iceberg of BS that happened under Paterno’s reign in “Happy Valley”. The deification of him is nauseating.

    In Paterrno’s defense, he didn’t invent this kind of shit; he merely exploited it in a more heinous way than most. Although, I’m a college football fan, I really detest the fact that they get so much leeway and get away with a ton of shit—enabled by coaches, university admin and fans–because they may be talented athletes.

  127. 127
    Thumper says:

    Anyone who cares can investigate Triponey and her legacy at PSU and find out that hardly anyone thinks she was a saint.

    Of course, that wouldn’t fit the Paterno-as-demon narrative.

  128. 128
    Gerry says:

    He died before he could be grilled and be held accountable for HIS stupidity in the Sandusky child-rape cases. Lucky for him, since he was desperately trying to save his reputation, but will escape his responsibilities in this issue by being an old fart and dying before being held responsible. So much for your “Legend”, a@@hole.

  129. 129
    PanurgeATL says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    Ever notice that nothing ever seems to get stuck in a timewarp at a point AFTER 1967?? (So much for the “stuck in the ’70s” meme.)

  130. 130
    PanurgeATL says:

    @suzanne:

    …a recreational game has become the primary proxy we have for real heroism.

    Well, considering that that proxy used to be war, I figure it’s a step up.

    More to the point, I think organized sport has been trying to usurp the functions of folklore and art in our society–the groundwork upon which we fashion Stories That Tell Us Who We Are–and that’s why it’s become so important to so many.

  131. 131
    WyldPirate says:

    @Thumper:
    Well trot the evidence against Timponey out, Thumper. Somehow I expect it to be spittle-flecked screeds by delusional JoPa worshipers…..

  132. 132
    Thumper says:

    Wyld…..
    Are you as lazy in life as you are on this board?

    I posted ‘for those who care to investigate’ to do so. Knowing that whatever *I* would post would be viewed as selfserving, I invite those who care to be informed on what they post and debate to do their own research.

    Since you expect others to do what you are too lazy to do, your comments are reduced to mere opinion sans basis of fact. As we all know, opinions are like assholes; everyone has ’em and many of them stink.

    I leave you to your own delusions.

  133. 133
    WyldPirate says:

    @Thumper:

    You’re the one making the claim, asshole. You provide the evidence.

    Or are you the type that just disparages people with nothing more than unsupported BS spewed from your cakehole?

  134. 134
    Nerull says:

    Amazing. Truly amazing.

    A man did evil, evil things. Another man covered it up, in itself an evil, evil act. But that’s all okay and forgiven, because he won football games. We can’t call him “bad”, because he won football games.

    I don’t want to live on this planet anymore.

  135. 135
    OzoneR says:

    @Thumper:

    Anyone who cares can investigate Triponey and her legacy at PSU and find out that hardly anyone thinks she was a saint.

    What does she have to do with what Joe did, or didn’t, do?

  136. 136
    Thumper says:

    You are lazy, Wyld.

    Triponey’s allegations are simply sour grapes. She was ousted and rightly so. She sought to consolidate power for herself and her office. That she peddled her story to the WSJ right after Paterno was ousted and was not about to make any statements on any subject shows her knowledge that her charges and selective release of limited e-mails would be unanswered by the pertinent parties.

    Since I can easily find the backstory, shouldn’t you also be capable?

    Or, is it that YOUR agenda would be compromised and your worldview made fragile?

    By all means, attack Paterno, PSU, college football, mom and apple pie, whomever and whatever you choose. You have that right and the luxury of doing so.

    Be advised, however…..your gratuitous assertions are subject to equally gratuitous dismissals. As, in your case, is inevitable.

  137. 137
    Thumper says:

    Ozone…..

    I was referring the Wyld’s comments on Triponey.

    Wyld would use the story to further bash Paterno/PSU/et.al.

    While the sinless would castigate Paterno for the sins of Sandusky, they uselessly direct their ire at a dead man, one who is no longer capable of defending himself or informing the public of what he knew and when he knew it.

    Frankly, no amount of smearing of Paterno will diminish what good he *did* do in his life. Taken on whole, he has a legacy of good no one on this board could hope to equal. No matter the nattering tongues and internet titterers, his whole life is stronger than their whinings can damage or diminish.

  138. 138
    WyldPirate says:

    @Thumper:
    You evidently can’t read, asshole. I made no gratuitous assertions. I linked a fucking article from USAToday.

    But your shit is weak. Parerno was used to getting things his way for decades. The article in the WSJ demonstrates that.

    You dismiss her allegations in the WJS article as mere sour grapes. Let’s look at that article
    In 2004, after several incidents involving football players, Mr. Paterno told the Allentown Morning Call newspaper that the players weren’t misbehaving any more than usual, but that such news was now more public. “I can go back to a couple guys in the ’70s who drove me nuts,” he said. “The cops would call me, and I used to put them in bed in my house and run their rear ends off the next day. Nobody knew about it. That’s the way we handled it.”

    And more…

    In August 2005, Mr. Spanier, the university president, suggested that Dr. Triponey meet with Mr. Paterno. Athletic director Curley, assistant athletic Director Fran Ganter and Joe Puzycki, the assistant to Dr. Triponey, also attended the Aug. 11 meeting, according to two people knowledgeable about the meeting. Mr. Paterno loudly criticized Dr. Triponey at the meeting for meddling, these people say.

    It seems to me that Paterno got tired of the “meddling” and ran her off. It”s pretty clear that when Paterno told the AD and former President Spanier to jump, they asked joPa “how high”.

  139. 139
    OzoneR says:

    @Thumper:

    While the sinless would castigate Paterno for the sins of Sandusky, they uselessly direct their ire at a dead man, one who is no longer capable of defending himself or informing the public of what he knew and when he knew it.

    When he was capable, he did not, that speaks to his character. I directed my ire to him when he was alive too.

  140. 140
    OzoneR says:

    @Thumper:

    Frankly, no amount of smearing of Paterno will diminish what good he did do in his life. Taken on whole, he has a legacy of good no one on this board could hope to equal. No matter the nattering tongues and internet titterers, his whole life is stronger than their whinings can damage or diminish.

    which was my original point. In our society, if you win enough football games, people will never hold you accountable for anything bad you do, too bad Casey Anthony wasn’t a Gators football coach, then her daughter’s murder would be “one mistake”

    The next time you want to commit a crime, donate a lot of money to charity first, so people will defend you.

  141. 141
    Maus says:

    @Thumper: “Taken on whole, he has a legacy of good no one on this board could hope to equal”

    Always attack, never defend. The sign of any good cultist.

  142. 142
    shortstop says:

    @Thumper:

    Frankly, no amount of smearing of Paterno will diminish what good he did do in his life. Taken on whole, he has a legacy of good no one on this board could hope to equal. No matter the nattering tongues and internet titterers, his whole life is stronger than their whinings can damage or diminish.

    I’ll leave aside the maudlin sycophancy (not to mention misplaced priorities) on display in “legacy of good no one on this [comment thread] could hope to equal” and just ask: Who the fuck picks your verbs for you? People complain about children getting serially raped with the help of a massive coverup for the rapist and you call it “whining”? You think pedophilia is “titter”-worthy?
    This is one sick, sick leaving.

  143. 143
    Ellyn says:

    The evil that men do lives after them;
    The good is oft interred with their bones;
    (Shakespeare’s “Julius Caesar”, Act III

  144. 144
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    @PanurgeATL:

    Ever notice that nothing ever seems to get stuck in a timewarp at a point AFTER 1967??

    I have met some septuagenarian hippies who fit that definition. But you’re right: large institutions hang on to eras of stasis and perceived certainty. Social equivalent of inertia.

  145. 145
    PanurgeATL says:

    @pseudonymous in nc:

    I guess. (Though “septuagenarian” would mean John Lennon’s age, and that’s at the very top end, isn’t it?) But at least they’re looking forward (even from a point in the past), as opposed to the PostModern People of today (well, really, since ’77) looking even farther back. “Beatniks were first!”

    I just wish the ’70s (maybe just as a matter of taste) could’ve been that “era of stasis and perceived certainty” for things to get stuck in. What I think the hippies got right was that they saw the need for a new set of certainties; what they got wrong was that they played the Kewl Rebel card too often, which really only works if you’re selling rock or hip-hop records. What everyone, punks, po-mo’s, and post-hippies, got wrong was the idea that these new certainties had to be overturned in their own turn, well before they’d done their work and been truly established as certainties, a process which can take a lifetime. If they ever need to be overturned, we’ll know without having to second-guess or pre-empt the process.

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