Open Thread: Hate Is Not A Family Value

And those of us who understand that now have an excuse to buy more Girl Scout cookies.

On the one hand: Yes, this is a blatant attempt at attention-grabbing by a handful of sad authoritarians using children as puppets for their twisted agenda. On the other hand: Generally, I feel about GS cookies the way Homer Simpson feels about beer. And besides, congratulations to the Girl Scouts for not folding to the whims of these nasty little people!

139 replies
  1. 1
    gbear says:

    Girl Scout Cookies are kind of cool until you open the box and realize there’s only a dozen cookies nestled into scads of plastic packaging.

  2. 2
    JPL says:

    If I had seen this, I would have ordered more boxes.

  3. 3
    debit says:

    @gbear: It just means you must buy more boxes. Every year, I’m in for four boxes of Samoas. Anyone else in my house who touches them suffers.

  4. 4
    gaz says:

    I didn’t need an excuse. But hell yes I’ll buy even MOAR.

  5. 5
    Cassidy says:

    I usually don’t buy them. Definitely will be this time.

  6. 6
    Woodrowfan says:

    I just wish they also had sugar-free.. 8-(

  7. 7
    B W Smith says:

    In my area, girl scouts along with a couple of adults set up tables outside of grocery stores or big box stores to sell their cookies. Many times these are very young girls, under 12. Why would anyone set in place circumstances that could cause these children to catch the wrath of disturbed people. Aren’t these the very folks that are constantly screaming, “Think of the children?” It may very well lead one to believe that it’s not the children they care about.

  8. 8
    Cat Lady says:

    The Boston Globe recently had a wonderful article about a transgendered child that these clenched butt authoritarians need to have tattooed to the inside of their eyelids. There by the grace of god and all that.

  9. 9
    jl says:

    Didn’t know GS had a Duff Beer cookie. I’ll look for them this year, you can bet on it.

  10. 10
    some guy says:

    gonna double our order.

  11. 11
    Cassidy says:

    @Woodrowfan: Donate them overseas. We love cookies.

  12. 12
    Soonergrunt says:

    First, let me state that Thin Mints are the fucking bomb! And by that, I mean that the only way to do them justice is to describe them as the fucking bomb. This leads to uncomfortable silences and awkward stares from the adult leaders when I say this to the Girl Scouts who sell me my Thin Mints.
    Secondly, I could only wish that the Boy Scouts of America had half the umm, guts that the GSA appears to have.

    Also too, (and I’ll update my Manning thread), the Court of Appeals for the Armed Forces (CAAF) has denied Julian Assange and the Wikileaks organization’s writ appeal to demand that the Army grant their lawyer (who supposedly has a TS/SCI clearance) access to ALL court documents as well as reserve a place for their lawyers at PFC Manning’s impending General Court-Martial.

  13. 13
    Loneoak says:

    The most hilarious/sad aspect of this is this girl (and/or her parents) seems to think that a horde of boys are willing to buck heteronormativity in order to pretend to be girls just so they can “threaten girls safety.” If there is anything more burdensome and challenging than being a transgendered child (especially for boys who feel they are girls) I have yet to hear about it, so the very notion that boys would pretend to be girls is frackin ridiculous. I’d blame it one either 1) the persistent conservative fantasy that everything is really all about them, or 2) the fear that anything that isn’t totally straight is actually all about sex and not about identity.

  14. 14
    Violet says:

    @B W Smith:
    A few years ago I went to my local supermarket and a couple of girl scouts with their moms had set up a table. One of the girl scouts was older than the others, tall, and, ahem, filled out her uniform rather nicely.

    I’d stopped to buy some cookies and while I was there a man came up to the table and told the girl she couldn’t be a girl scout — she was too old. She replied, with a very mature and obviously very practiced line, that she was fourteen and had been in girl scouts for however many years and she wanted to sell cookies to support her troop. Or something like that. I felt bad for her for having to deal with crap like that at such a young age, and also really proud of her for her very mature reply. I bet her parents had worked with her on how to handle the idiots. The guy was really put in his place, but it’s a shame she had to deal with it in the first place.

  15. 15

    I had to look up transgendered children because I had in mind the definition of “transsexual” [surgery and hormones and such]. Apparently “transgendered” folks play the role of the desired gender but don’t undergo any permanent procedures.

    I was disturbed at the idea of life-changing surgery done on children but that is not the case.

    Now that I’ve been educated, let me say “Good for the Girl Scouts!”

  16. 16
    cathyx says:

    I’m all for the Girl Scouts selling their cookies in the grocery store lobbies. I think it’s nice that the stores are willing to give them the space to sell in a safe environment. But one of my biggest pet peeves is having the children solicit me to buy them. I feel like I’m at a carnival being barked at. I can plainly see them. If I wanted to buy some cookies, I know I can go right up to the table and buy them. Don’t approach me please.

  17. 17
    Warren Terra says:

    Santorum: Romney Is “a Paler Shade of What We Have”
    Lee Atwater must be trying to crawl out of his grave and show these fools how it’s done properly.

  18. 18
    maryQ says:

    I really wonder if these people have lost their minds. Do they f’ing know any Girl Scouts? My kid just started Brownies this year. The families of the girls in her troop are, as far as I can tell, fairly representative of where we live (Metro West-suburbs and towns about 30-50 miles outside of Boston). Politically mixed-some Obama stickers, some Nobama stickers, and lots of people, white middle class and upper middle class, whose vote is up for grabs. A few more stunts like this, and the conservatives will lose these people for a generation.

    It’s not enough that their favored nominee just took a rhetorical dump on the white working class (after, you know, he ate their pensions)? Now they have to go after the daughters of conservative Catholic New England small business owners and soccer moms?

  19. 19
    maryQ says:

    Yeah, and by the way, if anyone needs some cookies……

  20. 20
    Martin says:

    Ms. Martin is the troop’s cookie mom. We’ll have 100+ cases in the garage in a few weeks.

    It varies by region, but the troop makes about $.65 per box sold. The regional council keeps some fraction of the cost of the box, national keep some too, etc. It really doesn’t take a lot of money to fund a troop pretty well, and the cookies are pretty easy to fund a troop.

    If you can’t have the cookies, or you don’t want to buy them for other reasons, dropping a buck on the girls when they come by is just as welcome.

  21. 21
    scandi says:

    The only haiku I’ve written as an adult:

    oh foul temptresses
    with siren song of “thin mint”
    i must not succumb

  22. 22
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    I’ve made it known to anyone who might know a girlscout to make sure they come by my house so I can order some. And my only complaint is that they don’t have them at every store I go to.

  23. 23
    Martin says:


    Secondly, I could only wish that the Boy Scouts of America had half the umm, guts that the GSA appears to have.

    BSA is very, very, very heavily supported by the LDS church. Overall, Boy Scout policy is basically LDS policy and I think something on the order of 25% of all scouts are LDS – it’s effectively mandatory if you’re in the church.

    Girl Scouts have no such dependency.

  24. 24
    dead existentialist says:

    Nom nom nom.

    Also too. Some troops will send the cookies you buy to troops serving overseas if you request it. (Not sure how that works, but the GSA website mentions it.)

  25. 25
    Cheryl from Maryland says:

    I see the hater video was taken down on youtube. To the young girl that posted that pile of crap, sweetie, Girl Scouts are not cowards, so good thing you are no longer one of us (six years as a GS and proud of it).

  26. 26
    Benjamin Franklin says:


    Compound that with County budgets for BSA. Salaries often eclipse 75 percent of the annual budget. It used to be volunteer heavy; now, not so much.

  27. 27
    J says:

    In Britain, the counterpart of the girl scouts are the girl guides. I recently bought, and am looking forward to reading, ‘How the Girl guides won the war’.

  28. 28
    Martin says:

    @dead existentialist: The way that it works is the order cookies in two phases. The first phase is basically inventory for the troop, and they order what they think they will sell. Then they go out with their order forms and such, collect purchases, and then decide what they want to fill from their inventory and what they want to order in the 2nd phase. On the order sheet is the ‘donate a box to the troops’, you pay the same $4 or whatever, and GSA takes care of all of that on their end. You can also do it at the table at the grocery store if the girls remembered to bring an order sheet.

    My understanding is that GSA aggregates all of the orders and then asks the military what they want and then delivers the order directly to the military for them to distribute wherever. My recollection is that there’s some other element to it – either something that you can choose (service maybe?) or something that you get back as a thank you. I forget.

  29. 29
    srv says:

    Girl Scouts are just a distribution arm for cookie companies.


  30. 30
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Benjamin Franklin:
    These are the primary reasons we didn’t fight it when our son wanted to drop out of Boy Scouts. He, of course, just didn’t think it was cool any more.

  31. 31
    Martin says:

    @Benjamin Franklin: When my son joined cub scouts I was ready to volunteer and do all kinds of stuff. But in order to be a leader I had to take the oath. Sorry, atheist. Can’t do it. They lost a volunteer on day one. When they did the religious things and asked what church he went to he had an answer! But it was the UU church. Didn’t count. He didn’t like the oath either. It was just too hard – and for no good reason so he quit after cub scouts.

  32. 32
    Felinious Wench says:

    Girl Scouts are not cowards, so good thing you are no longer one of us (six years as a GS and proud of it).

    I was official creepy, crawly thing catch and release lead on all camping trips when I was a Scout. To this day, I am fearless when it comes to bugs, reptiles, or mammalian critters that make my husband and sons squirm.

    Girl Scouts, baby.

  33. 33
    Maude says:

    Thin Mints aren’t as good as they were some time ago. They were richer and had more chocolate taste. They also had a crisper texture.
    I can’t believe I’m writing this. I must be cranky.

  34. 34
    Anne Laurie says:

    @B W Smith:

    Aren’t these the very folks that are constantly screaming, “Think of the children?” It may very well lead one to believe that it’s not the children they care about.

    I have my suspicions what some of those folks are thinking about, especially the ones volunteering for ladyboy detection duty among the seven-year-olds.

  35. 35
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @srv: Works for me, or maybe against me.

  36. 36
    gbear says:

    @Martin: I’m surprised at just how regional they are. The Minneapolis Girls Scouts have a different cookie seletcion than the St. Paul scouts. I always have to check with both camps to see what goodies are available. My fave last year was the fudge-dipped shortbread cookies, but the peanut butter sandwich cookies are still my long-time fave.

  37. 37

    Yeah, you know what? I’ll save the money I would have spent on those disgusting cookies and donate it to the Human Rights Campaign. Sorry, I’ve been seeing “Show you’re a true progressive by buying Girl Scout cookies!” messaging all over the internets today and I just find it revolting. Fuck the Girl Scout cookies. They’re corporate crap. They’re made by Keebler out of toxic waste.

  38. 38
    JoeShabadoo says:

    I don’t really know much about this kind of thing and the term transgender seems ludicrously broad but can someone really be identified as transgender at the age of 7?

    This seems like an age when the concept itself would be difficult to grasp.

  39. 39
    B W Smith says:

    @Anne Laurie: It never fails, those who scream the loudest turn out to be creepiest. That’s true whether it’s these folks or fundamentalist pastors like Ted Haggard or Santorum (his skeletons will come out someday).

  40. 40
    JCT says:

    @Warren Terra: I must have read that 3-4 times I was so gobsmacked.

    They are all insane.

  41. 41

    When I was a kid, I was in scouts, though I’m not sure I ever got around to getting a single merit badge (maybe a couple easy ones). It had a kinda creepy religious-fascist vibe to it even then, though my scoutmaster was fairly cool about it, told me I could just leave out the religious stuff if I wanted to.

    As I understand, it’s gotten much much worse since.

  42. 42

    @Linda Featheringill:

    Apparently “transgendered” folks play the role of the desired gender but don’t undergo any permanent procedures.

    I think you might want to change your phrasing about “play the role of the desired gender”, since I think that’s almost exactly backward. A TG person feels that their real gender is different from their assigned (i.e. physical) gender. If they’re “play[ing] a role”, it’s when they follow social convention for their assigned gender. Being allowed to act according to their identified gender is being themself, the exact opposite of playing a role.

  43. 43
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Maude: I’m just hoping the “Thanks-A-Lot” cookies use the same dark-chocolate ‘fudge’ topping as previous years’ “animal crackers”, because the shortbread-and-chocolate combo was my personal favorite!

  44. 44
    Lojasmo says:


    Perhaps Romney will buy a thousand boxes from for the constant fluffing.

  45. 45
    jonas says:

    @JoeShabadoo: gender identity isn’t the same as sexual orientation. Kids know at a very early age whether they feel like a girl or a boy and very much want to act in ways that “perform” that gender. Usually sex and gender match up, but not always.

  46. 46

    @Warren Terra:

    Santorum really loves the taste of his own foot, doesn’t he?

  47. 47
    Benjamin Franklin says:


    It takes principle to be an atheist. BSA doesn;t get it.

  48. 48
    jonas says:

    As the parent of two Brownies, I’m proud that GSA fosters strong, independent girls without giving in to a lot of the right-wing gender crap that seems to have infected the Boy Scouts for so long. As someone pointed out upthread, BSA is basically a branch of the Mormon church in most states.

    A lot of this panic seems to be based on the idea that a trans girl is just a boy who wants to dress up like a girl so he can stalk other girls on camping trips or something. It’s just pig ignorance, like all other bigotry. The adults behind this deserve a swift kick in the ass for manipulating their kids in this way.

  49. 49
    Cassidy says:

    @Southern Beale: Gettin’ off the lawn. Got it.

  50. 50
    Schlemizel says:

    It figures! As soon as I dispare of an open thread to post my interesting discovery and post it int eh wrong place – POOF – A real open thread pops up!

    I was looking at the final results of the NH GOP Primary & noticed something interesting in the write in vote.
    OBAMA got 283 votes . . . in the Republican Primary. Those are write-ins so people had to go out of their way to do this.

    Thats more than Cain & nearly as many as batshit Bachmann.

  51. 51
    Maude says:

    @Anne Laurie:
    I haven’t had those in years. They were so wonderful, The GS cookies were great when Weston baked them.
    Are we still allowed to say dirty old man or is that too harsh.

  52. 52


    I don’t really know much about this kind of thing and the term transgender seems ludicrously broad but can someone really be identified as transgender at the age of 7?

    They absolutely can. There are some kids who feel from a very early age that they don’t match what adults tell them. Little boys (by genitals, at least) will insist that they’re actually girls or vice versa. It seems to be something that’s genuinely innate that they insist on against vigorous pushing from the rest of society.

  53. 53
    amk says:

    9/11 rudy is hollering at noot, who is doing great with his attack ads on glass jawed fraud willard.


    If your capitalism is so weak that Newt Gingrich can take it down, you need a better capitalism.

  54. 54
    Cassidy says:

    @JoeShabadoo: Just anecdotal, but my younger brother was very effeminate growing up. He never “identified” as a girl, but he always wanted to do “girl” things. He’s a grown, homosexual man now, and not sure if this is somehow related, other than to say that he never acted like a “boy” growing up.

  55. 55
    Cacti says:

    Girl Scouts are an inclusive organization, Campfire is an inclusive organization.

    In response, the Boy Scouts decided to become the junior bigot brigade.

  56. 56
    MikeJ says:

    @Cassidy: It’s also true though that it’s perfectly fine for little boys to play with dolls or little girls to play with trucks and that doesn’t make them trans, it means that society has a narrow view of what a proper boy or girl is.

  57. 57
    Schlemizel says:

    I object to the fact that the cookie company is only in business because of the GS. They make almost all of their money from these girls.

    When I was a Boy Scout leader I ran the troops pop corn sale (similar deal) the scouts got surprisingly little from each sale.

    When the girls show up at my door (or the boys for that matter) I write a check to their troop and tell them to skip the cookies. I support the work they are doing but not the folks who have attached themselves to the kids work.

  58. 58
    KyCole says:

    Last year I was at the grocery store wearing my very old Dark Side of the Moon T-shirt. The Girl Scout Dad asked me where I got it and I told him I got it when I was in college. He said “wow that must be really old, you could probably get a lot of money for that” and I, though offended by being called old (which I am), bought 6 boxes of cookies. Mints go in the freezer, the rest go to work. By the way, I hated selling them as a kid.

  59. 59
  60. 60

    […] Balloon Juice Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this post. This entry was posted in […]

  61. 61
    Waynski says:

    I wonder if Republicans are wondering for the first time: am I inherently an asshole or do I espouse policies that just happen to be so? Now that the worst economy in a century is making them realize that extracting wealth from possibly successful companies at the expense of other people is wrong, do they think the person who engaged in this fervently was “just doing business”. Whether they like it or not, Newt and Rick have put a white face on it, and it’s getting horribly uncomfortable for normally, quite routinely very comfortable people. He’s not (Mitt) even kind to animals. I’m looking forward to the Donnybrook they’re getting into, but let us not forget this guy has a lotto money behind him and he could grab the reins of our government. Laugh tonight. Fight tomorrow.

  62. 62
    Schlemizel says:

    BTW – on the sad subject of the bigotry of the BSA. The local troop I was one of the adult leaders in had atheist kids, and at least one atheist leader. I am not aware of any gays but I believe they would have been received well by the troop leaders (how a group of teen boys would handle a gay kid is anyone’s guess but the adults would have defended and encourage any boy who wanted to join).

    I think the immediate area supervisors tried to ignore this type of inclusiveness but assume they would have come down against it if forced. Higher up the org the ugliness became more open.

    Because of the stereotype of the predator Scoutmaster I have some sympathy for the BSA but I don’t think that was really their target and it still does not excuse their anti-gay stance. The anti-atheist thing is as unforgivable but even less understandable.

  63. 63
    Svensker says:

    Can’t stick around but thought you all would enjoy this actual serious website “Pets With Newt 2012”. Shows Newtie with various animals, shows pet owners who support Newt and includes a super interesting article about Newt and Callista’s favorite zoos!


  64. 64
    Libby's person says:

    If I may, a comment that isn’t about girl scouts, and definitely not about hate:

    I just got back from an Obama houseparty, where I had a good time getting energized with about 25 other supporters. Yet again, I am impressed with the Obama campaign. The young woman from Organizing for America gave a very good overview of the situation in NC; it was both honest and motivating. She acknowledged the challenges, and how important it is for everyone who can to get involved. It’s clear that the organization has been working things quietly in the background for quite some time, and getting ready for a tough campaign. The ground game may not have quite the same intensity as in 2008, but it’s going to be strong.

    The best thing about the evening was talking to total strangers as if they were old friends. This is the thing that I remember most about 2008; making connections with people who I wouldn’t ordinarily get a chance to meet, and seeing social boundaries fade away. I’m very glad to see that this can happen again this year, despite the disappointments. I LIKE belonging to the party that brings people together rather than trying to divide them!

    I’ve been a little subdued of late, but I’m ready to get started. I’m getting a little tired of irony; I was ready for some straight-up enthusiasm! And I finally got around to actually putting the 2012 bumper sticker on the car…

  65. 65
    Arclite says:

    Not exactly a transgendered story, but I thought this story at Gamestop of an older brother sticking up for his younger brother (to their father no less) just because he wanted to buy a game with a female protagonist and a purple controller is just all kinds of AWESOME. And see how the woman swoons over the older brother? Take heed men: Chicks dig guys that protect the weak against the abusive.

  66. 66
    Hungry Joe says:


    Yes, yes, yes … but: I hope you put them in the freezer. Otherwise you and I have nothing to talk about, not now, not ever.

    I was a Boy Scout many (many) years ago. Troops were pretty independent, and our leaders’ motto was “Let the boys have fun.” If we got merit badges and advanced in rank, it was considered kind of cool; if not, whatever. Religious overtones were nonexistent.

  67. 67
    merrinc says:


    I have been a Girl Scout leader since my daughter came home from kindergarden with one of their recruitment flyers and insisted that she HAD to be a Daisy Girl Scout. That was 9 years ago. The scenario you describe (aren’t you too old to be a Girl Scout) is sadly common. It’s why my girls – now all 8th graders – have refused to sell cookies door to door or at booths for the last two years. What makes me total strangers feel like they have the right to make rude remarks to kids, I have no idea.

  68. 68
    Raven says:

    Weatherwoman Diana’s grandfather founded the Boy Scouts.

    Sing a song for the children who are gone
    Sing a song for Diana
    Huntress of the moon and a lady of the Earth
    Weather woman Diana

  69. 69
    Felinious Wench says:

    It’s also true though that it’s perfectly fine for little boys to play with dolls or little girls to play with trucks and that doesn’t make them trans, it means that society has a narrow view of what a proper boy or girl is.

    Absolutely, but this is different. I like the way it was expressed in the Boston Globe article. Boys feel like a girl with a birth defect.

  70. 70
    robertdsc-PowerBook says:

    So this TG girl is a anatomical boy but is being included in girl things? I’m not quite understanding this part. Help would be appreciated.

  71. 71
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    I was disturbed at the idea of life-changing surgery done on children but that is not the case.

    Actually, life-changing gender surgery is done on children all the time. It’s done in the name of gender conformity when a child is born with “ambiguous” genitals to make them appear “normal.”

    It’s slowly starting to change now that the people treated this way as babies have become adults and are pissed off at what happened to them, but it still happens, unfortunately.

  72. 72
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Southern Beale: So,you’ll be giving HRC a zero dollar donation?

  73. 73
    Raven says:

    @robertdsc-PowerBook: This is a good friend of mine who started to realize she was a boy when she was about 9. It obviously took time but he’s living a happy productive life now.

  74. 74
    chrome agnomen says:


    sunfighter gunfighter mount the earth and learn to ride her

    (or something like that)

  75. 75
    Raven says:

    @chrome agnomen: Flashin sunshine children

  76. 76
    merrinc says:


    Martin, you are obviously an engaged Girl Scout parent and as a troop leader and former service unit manager, I thank you for that. Please do not take offense as I correct a few things you said. First of all, it is not GSA. It’s Girl Scouts of the USA or GSUSA. We don’t like being confused with those BSA idiots.

    Secondly, the 100+ councils in the USA function quite independently. GSUSA handles the big picture stuff but day to day operations are determined by each council. GSUSA has selected the the vendors for product sales – there are only two bakers authorized, Little Brownie Bakers and ABC – but each council decides which of the two to use, when to hold the cookie sale, how much to sell them for, the profit margin for troops, which charity to support if any, or etc. GSUSA receives NO profit from the sale of cookies.

    Lastly – and this is for Soonergrunt – thin mint cookies are best frozen.

  77. 77
    LesGS says:

    @JoeShabadoo: Joe, this child does not identify as “transgender.” She identifies as a girl. Her internal self-perception is that she is a girl. She behaves like a girl. She wants to do the things, like Girl Scouts, that other girls do.

    Her parents, despite her male body, seem to be allowing her to express what seems to be a core identity. How she will want to be expressing herself 7, 10, 20 years from now is not set in stone. Which is why no medical steps are being taken to alter her body.

    But if she is like me (knew I was a boy, despite my female body, from the time I was 3, and I’m now 53) she’ll be living as the woman she knows she is when she reaches adulthood.

    P.S. My 19 yo daughter was a Girl Scout, and she is so proud of the GS organization now.

  78. 78
    Raven says:

    @merrinc: And they won’t let them sell cookies here in front of Girl Scout Founder Juliette Low’s house in Savannah!

  79. 79

    Speaking of transgender-hate, yesterday two Tennessee Republicans filed a truly heinous bill that shrinks government to the size where it fits in a public restroom:

    Rep. Richard Floyd is defending his bill to harass transgender people using public bathrooms. The Chattanooga Republican defiantly tells Andy Sher he’d “stomp a mudhole” (whatever that means) in any transgender person who troubled his wife or daughters.
    “I believe if I was standing at a dressing room and my wife or one of my daughters was in the dressing room and a man tried to go in there — I don’t care if he thinks he’s a woman and tries on clothes with them in there — I’d just try to stomp a mudhole in him and then stomp him dry,” Floyd said.

    Reaction to the bill has been so universally negative that the Republicritter in the state Senate actually withdrew his version of the bill.

  80. 80
    Raven says:

    @LesGS: salute to you both

  81. 81
    bcw says:

    In my area Girl Scout cookies go on sale Feb 10. The GSA website has a search engine for local councils.

    all hail thin mints.

  82. 82
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Southern Beale:

    Christ-a-fuckin’-mighty. Just how screwed up do you have to be elected to public office and think that that’s a good way to spend your time? “I’m a small-gummit Republican, and I think the gummint needs to legalize beating up transsexuals.” Fuck, I don’t even.

  83. 83
    Martin says:

    @merrinc: Thanks very much for the corrections – no offense ever taken for being corrected, it’s how we learn.

    I knew there was independence between councils, but the take by each troop is generally all in the same $.50-$.80 range from what I’ve seen. And I’m not critical of that point – it’s actually damn good. Earning $1 for your troop for every 2 boxes you sell is good enough to really motivate the kids – particularly given how easy they are to sell.

    I didn’t realize that GSUSA earns nothing off the sales. Is all of their revenue out of the dues?

  84. 84
    chrome agnomen says:


    got to learn to leave the planet be
    no more room to fuck around like we did before
    just maybe one more chance to leave it be

    man, i loved that period in the starship. also baron non tollbooth and the chrome nun.

  85. 85
    Raven says:

    @chrome agnomen: Yea, I’m much more of an Airplane and Tuna guy but Blows and Sunfighter were good.

  86. 86
  87. 87
    Citizen_X says:

    Researchers have described a frog from Papua New Guinea, Paedophryne amauensis, that is the smallest vertebrate known. It’s seven millimeters long.

    Squee-worthy picture of the frog, posed on a US dime, at the link.

    PS: GS Thin Mints are, indeed, the fucking bomb.

  88. 88
    robertdsc-PowerBook says:

    OK, thanks. Now I get it. Very cool. Good on the GS.

    Thin Mints fo lyfe, cuzz.

  89. 89
    PLH in NYC says:

    As Wednesday Addams said: “Are they made with real Girlscouts?”

  90. 90
    PLH in NYC says:

    As Wednesday Addams said: “Are they made with real Girlscouts?”

  91. 91
    Tony says:

    I think we have a future Fox Newsmodel!

  92. 92
    Cassidy says:

    @MikeJ: My son picked out My Little Pony’s with his Christmas money. I got a couple of looks and then the look they got back daring them to say something suddenly reminded them they had another section of the store to go look for things in.

  93. 93
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Citizen_X: That picture is really cool.

  94. 94
    kdaug says:

    @The Other Chuck:

    When I was a kid, I was in scouts

    Me, too. Didn’t have much God in it though, IIRC.

    Ate some fried rattlesnake, built a wooden car, got some patches and beads on a lanyard.

    But I don’t remember a Holy-Roller vibe.

    (Now that Catholic day-care, on the other hand…)

  95. 95
    Gust Avrakotos says:

    Must be another slow news day. Gloom Porn addict Cole can’t even point to the Dow tanking to try make some retarded point that it proves we are all gonna die or whatever.

    Between this and reading from several more posters on that orange site holding out their hats asking for money I’m bored.

    Can’t wait till all this GOPer primary circle jerking is over with so we can get on with the real campaigns.

    Oh and mistermix… still think Palin is gonna run? Or maybe you believe Donald Chump (again) that he is threatening to run (again) for about the 10th time (again).

    I swear, you people will believe just about any fucking thing around here.

  96. 96
    PhoenixRising says:

    As to the TG Scout: I was a Brownie, then the camp director (where did 17 years go in between?…it was fun, because I was outdoors making fires, but it flew past).

    Not once, in all those years as a kid, volunteer or employee, did I ever ask to look inside a girl’s Little Mermaid undies to determine whether I shared her belief that she was a girl. Because that is creepy, not to mention illegal.

    Any organization that offers to police the undies of the other kids? Isn’t getting near my kid. If Bobby presented as a girl, she is welcome as a Brownie.

  97. 97
    rikyrah says:

    Thin Mints=Cookie Crack

  98. 98
    LesGS says:

    @Raven: And thanks so much for linking to Kade’s video. What an articulate young man. I wonder how long it will take for society to realize that TG/TS people just want to be – at least as far as our gender expression is concerned – ordinary folks.

  99. 99

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Just another day in the Tennessee State Legislature, I’m sorry to say.

    As if this douchewazzle’s wife and kids are in danger. Like trans people just can’t control themselves around them or something. How fucking stupid do you have to be?

    And as a friend pointed out, if you saw this person in the men’s room, you would ask her to leave.

  100. 100
    Scott P. says:

    In the same vein, a heartwarming story from Lowell, MA:

  101. 101
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Gust Avrakotos: The cross you bear for us, is it very heavy?

  102. 102
    Nicole says:

    What blew my mind were the three troops in Georgia who disbanded because they were so upset that a Colorado troop accepted this little girl. To those (ex) troops I say, don’t let the trefoil hit you on the way out.

    (GS for 11 years)

  103. 103
    Nerull says:

    @B W Smith: Yes, the children should wear fabric covering their bodies and never leave their houses, lest someone “disturbed” see them.

    Girl Scouts isn’t about living a sheltered life.

  104. 104
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @Nicole: In order to protest an action taken in Colorado, we in Georgia will punish our own children. Or something like that.

  105. 105
    Nicole says:

    @Martin: Dues is a part of it- this is from 2010:

    Source of Funds
    Membership dues 37,076,000
    Girl Scout merchandise 17,003,000
    Contributed advertising 6,831,000
    Net investment income in excess of income allocation 6,046,000
    Gifts, grants and bequests 5,167,000
    Training/meeting revenue 4,375,000
    Investment income allocation 3,491,000
    Endowment contributions 874,000
    Other 712,000
    Total Income $81,575,000

  106. 106
    Not Sure says:

    @B W Smith: What? You mean there are people out there who would take out their frustrations and seething hatred on some 10 year old American girls? I want to meet one, so I can kick him in the nuts.

  107. 107
    Not Sure says:

    @merrinc: I like my Thin Mints crumbled over vanilla ice cream.

    Oh, Ben and/or Jerry, if you get any ideas about that, you’d better make sure I get my cut. I invented it.

  108. 108
    dead existentialist says:

    Well, the brief time that I was a boy scout lo-some 45+ years ago, some of us would reassemble after the officially sanctioned meetings, turn our scarves from rearwards to the front to cover our faces bandito-style and proceed to wreak havoc, mayhem, and vandalism on our neighborhood for no apparent reason. We were awful little bastards.

    And we loved girl scout meeting days at school ’cause it gave us a half-way decent chance of looking up our sisters-in-arms skirts. Did I mention that we were awful little bastards?

    Oh, and circle-jerks at camp.

    I spent my formative years in some seedy neighborhoods. Sheesh.

  109. 109
    Fwiffo says:

    Crap, now I need to double my order of thin mints this year. Do you have any idea how many calories two shitloads of girl scout cookies has?

  110. 110
    gaz says:

    @Southern Beale:

    Fuck the Girl Scout cookies. They’re corporate crap. They’re made by Keebler out of toxic waste.

    linking to yourself doesn’t make it true. that’s what you’re doing here right? (just checking).

  111. 111
    The prophet Nostradumbass says:

    @gaz: For starters, they’re not made by Keebler.

  112. 112
    Soonergrunt says:

    @Hungry Joe: When I was a scout in the 80’s it was the same way. And for the most part it was that way when my son was doing it, but there was also the aspect that, as an organization, the BSA can’t acknowledge objective reality because to do so would offend the leaders of the Mormon church. So when our boy decided he’d rather chase girls and play video games, we didn’t have a lot of reasons to try to talk him out of it.

  113. 113
    Origuy says:


    When they did the religious things and asked what church he went to he had an answer! But it was the UU church. Didn’t count.

    The Boy Scouts have a program where you can get a religious emblem for knowing about your particular faith. When I was a Scout, ages ago, I looked into it. We were Disciples of Christ, so the program for me was a generic Protestant one. I remember that the UU had its own program, so I went looking. Apparently, the Unitarians included their disagreements with the BSA in the program, and the BSA withdrew recognition of it. It’s gone back and forth; I’m not sure where they stand now.

  114. 114
    gaz says:

    @The prophet Nostradumbass: heh. I saw some 60 minutes thing on it – but it was short, very vague – and it was damn near the only base link on the subject. Rooney didn’t even say which box of cookies were baked by keebler – in fact IIRC he said he looked at “a” box. And god only knows if he dug it out of his pantry from ’36 or so. =) /snark


    Seems a whole lot to be pissed over. SB probably just needs to chill the eff out – as there are plenty of other things to freak out over, imnsho.

    In any case, Good on the Girl Scouts of America for being kickass and sticking up to bigots and their unfortunate children.

  115. 115
    Soonergrunt says:


    Lastly – and this is for Soonergrunt – thin mint cookies are best frozen.

    So YOU say. I say that they are best when received in a box from home on the other side of the planet, and shared with one’s team in the dewy cold morning with a coffee brewed on the engine block of a Humvee in the middle of nowhere, instead of the cold MREs that comprised three meals a day for the last three weeks.
    Failing that, crushing a few with a rolling pin and mixing them with cold milk to make a slurry of choclatey-minty goodness ate with a spoon is pretty good too.

  116. 116
    merrinc says:


    knew there was independence between councils, but the take by each troop is generally all in the same $.50-$.80 range from what I’ve seen. And I’m not critical of that point – it’s actually damn good. Earning $1 for your troop for every 2 boxes you sell is good enough to really motivate the kids – particularly given how easy they are to sell.

    That range is about right. It’s a great program: teaches the girls about planning, goal setting, public speaking. Helped my daughter get over her shyness. (Ruined my waistline. Temporarily.)

    We always say that Girl Scouts is about more than cookies, but cookies are a HUGE part of it. Kudos to Mrs. Martin for stepping up to be the troop cookie mom. I would have never survived three years as a Brownie leader without an awesome cookie mom.

    I didn’t realize that GSUSA earns nothing off the sales. Is all of their revenue out of the dues?

    This, I do not know. I have heard that most of the $12 annual dues covers the cost of accident insurance issued to each member. I believe GSUSA takes most of the profit from uniforms, books, and a whole lot of other merchandise sold in council stores.

  117. 117
    andy says:

    Grifters gotta Grift- Architect of the Laffer Curve found to be crooked in deed.

    If so many of us hadn’t been suckered by his first act this country would have been a lot better off…

  118. 118
    gaz says:

    @andy: At first blush, I read your post as Art Laffer had died – and something very uncharitable and unchristian welled up inside of me – before I repressed it like a good liberal. heh.

    Arg. Men like that are the reason the French invented class warfare.*


  119. 119
    Jebediah says:

    Small pleasures in shit conditions can be pretty wonderful.

  120. 120
    Gromitt Gunn says:

    If you want to support transgendered rights, I definitely would not donate to the HRC. There are plenty of other orgs that do more for the T in LGBT.

  121. 121
    gaz says:

    It’s an identity thing. It manifests generally in childhood.
    It’s not a sex thing that manifests at puberty. You have some cultural tapes playing at you. reading fixes that.

    If you are curious, read. If you aren’t, then don’t ask. But it sucks pretty bad to have people pass judgement on you when they know nothing about you or what the fuck your life is like, and whether you know it or not, that statement of yours was presumptious at best – and ignorant and judgemental at worst.

    I’ll get off of my soapbox in a sec – but let me first say I’ve witnessed parents fuck their kids lives up with the exact same sort of attitude you display here. Read first. Then maybe question. What you did is make a statement on something you know nothing about. A lot of kids know before 10. Most, IIRC.

  122. 122
    Xenos says:

    What ever happened with the simmering scandal about BSA finances? Did anything result from the claims about non-existant troops and kids who never showed up being on the rolls?

    The last I heard the biggest problem with the BSA is a demographic one – that very few were completing the Scouts phase and that the ability of the organization to maintain itself for another generation was questionable.

    FWIW, after dropping out of Cubs back in the 70s I am volunteering with a British co-ed group. It is wonderfully free of gender politics, and as for gay or transgender scouts and leaders, they are explicitly welcome. They have to follow the same policies about inappropriate contact with the children that the straight leaders follow. It is no issue, at all.

  123. 123

    @Southern Beale:

    As if this douchewazzle’s wife and kids are in danger.

    They are – from him. FSM help any of them that fail to live up to his demented standards for “proper” behavior.

  124. 124
    gaz says:

    @rikyrah: Cartoon from the New Yorker: http://imgc.allpostersimages.c.....artoon.jpg

    My wife and I have this on our fridge.

  125. 125
    jimbob says:

    Politics notwhithstanding, the cookies suck. do not want. There has to be a better way to support transgender rights.

    Even that aside, making girls sell cookies is lame. Say what you want about learning how to be good workers and all that, there is no reason for a kid to be out selling anything. it’s boring, stupid, not what I would ever want my kid doing with his free time. I’ll find better ways to teach him about responsibility and work ethics and all that if needed, thanks.

    And to reiterate, the cookies, they are not very good. Do not want.

  126. 126
    hamletta says:

    @Raven: That’s understandable. It would be an unfair advantage to the Savannah Girl Scouts.

  127. 127
    JoeShabadoo says:

    I never made any sort of definitive statement nor did I pass judgment. I asked a question after admitting I didn’t know much about the subject, (kind of the reason to ask a question) saying that it was in general outside of my expectations.

    I was given several polite replies by other people who answered my question. I suggest you relax when talking about this issue as this is obviously extremely personal to you instead of simply saying “stfu and read.” Also, if you want someone to read something instead of being a disimissive asshole point them in the general direction.

  128. 128
    Sock Puppet of the Great Satan says:

    “A lot of this panic seems to be based on the idea that a trans girl is just a boy who wants to dress up like a girl so he can stalk other girls on camping trips or something. It’s just pig ignorance, like all other bigotry. The adults behind this deserve a swift kick in the ass for manipulating their kids in this way.”

    I’d point out that transphobia also infested separatist feminism, particularly Andrea Dworkin: a buddy of hers wrote an awful book called the Transexual Empire. I still think some womyn’s festivals exclude trans.

    It always seemed to me to be a weird position for purported feminists, because if there’s a stronger critique of current ideas of masculinity than transgenderism (including having one’s balls lopped off), I’d wonder what it could be.

    Anyway, good for the Girl Scouts. Wish the BSA hadn’t turned into an LDS front, ‘cos I have an 8-year old boy who’d benefit from scouting.

  129. 129
    BDeevDad says:

    We bought 8 boxes for Operation Thin Mint. Now I have to get my Samoas.

  130. 130
    The Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion says:

    @JoeShabadoo: Other cultural traditions recognize that gender identity often does not match genitalia, and that some children know this about themselves VERY early on. One of the Native American ambassadors to Coolidge’s White House was transgendered.

  131. 131
    jake the snake says:

    “I know who I am, but who are all you Zombies?”

  132. 132
    evinfuilt says:

    As a transgendered Coloradan who is addicted to thin mints… I am so happy, had request from my Houston friends to buy more boxes up here for them.

  133. 133
    Origuy says:

    There are children’s organizations beside the BSA. Campfire is no longer just for girls. According to their website:

    We are inclusive, welcoming children, youth and adults regardless of race, religion, socioeconomic status, disability, sexual orientation or other aspect of diversity.

  134. 134
    suzanne says:

    My daughter’s selling cookies. ;)
    Anyone want any?

  135. 135
    Don says:

    @Southern Beale: Oh dear grod, give your money to an organization less useless than the HRC (unless you’re aiming to employ people in dem administrations). I’ll never forgive them for their complete mishandling of the Prop8 vote. We moved all our equality money over to Freedom to Marry but Lambda Legal still gets some donations from us.

  136. 136
    gaz says:

    @Don: They lost me long before prop8. Those fuckers marginalize the T’s whenever it’s politically expedient to do so – so in other words, all the time.

  137. 137
    misty says:

    Boy Scouts and Girl Guides were founded in 1910 by Robert Baden-Powell, who was appalled at the poor condition and lack of skills of the young men recruited to save in the Boer Wars. The Boy Scouts of America have retained much of the quasi-military approach.
    The Girl Scout movement in the US diverged quite early to emphasize girl empowerment. Girl Scouting is much more than an after-school arts club.
    As for the cookies, if you consider them overpriced or unhealthy, you can support the girls in other ways such as donating to a troop. The reasons for ‘booth sales’ by businesses include girl safety and customer convenience.

  138. 138
    Mr Furious says:

    This year, at least for my daughter’s troop, donated cookies do NOT go to overseas troops, but to local food banks. It is also handled by GSUSA directly, so what is “local” is anybody’s guess.

  139. 139
    gaz says:

    @Mr Furious: Okay so, IN broad strokes, what I’ve culled from the thread here is this:

    The Girl Scouts of America = not great (for some reason I forget now)

    The Girl Scouts of the USA = different, organization, one behind this good stuff the thread was about.

    Forgive me, for I abandoned the single comment somewhere up this thread (it was some time ago – hazy on the details).

    —— does this about cover if from the 50,000 foot view?

    You sound like you might know – so I ask? Google isn’t being very forthcoming… meh. Need farmable keywords… arg

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