Santorum may be too nice a name for that guy…

Doug’s post about Santorum running the meetings where lobbyists were able to thumbs-ups or thumps-down any Bush era appointment reminded me that Santorum’s involvement with lobbyists go back to his arrival in Washington as a new Senator.

Santorum was elected to the Senate as part of the Gingrich wave election in 1994. Also arriving in that wave was a new Wingnut scheme to use lobbyists as a money laundering network to fund off-the-books efforts to swing elections and build conservative power in DC. Tom DeLay was an architect of the K Street Project and Rick Santorum eagerly signed on as one of his Capos. On the K Street side it was Jack Abramoff who was the point of the spear. Jack signed up clients who lived or died on the basis of congressional action and had lots of money to spend. Most folks know about the many Native American Nations with casinos who hire Jack, but another group of Jack’s clients were US Territories with issues before the Congress.

In the late 1980s, a string of islands about 40 miles north of Guam became a US Territory. To protect the indigenous people of those islands they were given control of immigration and labor laws so that they would not become swamped with Anglos like Hawaii. Local grifters took control of the new Territory’s politics and used these loopholes to invite in Chinese Sweatshops who wanted the benefit of a “Made in the USA” label. A family of Chinese grifters–the Tan Family–worked with local grifters to set up a system of labor abuse that included sweatshops, sex shops, human trafficking and even forced abortions (whenever one of their “worker” victims was with child).

Enter Jack Abramoff and his happy mixing with Santorum.

In 1996 the sweatshop interests were facing an extension of US immigration and labor laws to the islands because of endless reports of horrific abuse. One of the first hearing of the Gingrich Congress was a bipartisan one committed to an end of this blight on American honor. To fight this effort, the sweatshop owners–and their partners controlling the local government–hired Jack Abramoff. Working with his Republican allies, Jack was able to protect their labor abuse scam for a decade–and even today others are still working with these Pirates of Saipan to protect and maintain the abuse. In this effort, Rick Santorum was one of Jack’s first points of contact:

Santorum-meet-Abramoff

Santorum helped Jack win his legislative battle. He was one of the first elected members of Team Abramoff and throughout the rest of his years in Congress he was a reliable supporter of the Saipan Sweatshops. Naturally, he was well paid for this support. Shortly after his meetings with Abramoff, Willie Tan–the sweatshop owner–and some of his employees attended a Santorum fundraiser as part of their Abramoff-organized tour of America for the 1996 GOP Convention:

Sweatshop-owners-support-Santorum-PAC

According to Open Secrets, Satorum’s FightPAC recieved $5,000 just before the sweatshop owner and his employees went to his fundraiser and another $5,000 just after Abramoff won a Santorum supported legislative victory for his sweatshop dependent clients. Both payments to his PAC were from John Pangelinan, a long-time Tan Family employee.

The crimes and human rights abuses of these sweatshop owners and the system of labor abuse they created in the Commonwealth of the Norther Marianas Islands–a US Territory in the Western Pacific–are epic and well documented. They should have ended almost twenty years ago. Thanks to Abramoff, Santorum and others it still goes on today and there are thousands of victims who will never be made whole. Theft of labor, forced prostitution, coerced abortions were sanctioned and protected by the CNMI Government and the United States of America. This system of abuse and human suffering is something that Rick Santorum took cash payments to support. The popular internet meme to define his name may be way too nice for him.

Cheers

122 replies
  1. 1

    It always amazes me how little money it takes to buy off congressmen…

  2. 2
    MikeBoyScout says:

    Santorum is scum.
    Always has been.
    Always will be.

  3. 3
    Kristine says:

    @Afferent Input:

    It always amazes me how little money it takes to buy off congressmen…

    Same here. I expected to see a six-figure number. It would be laughable if it weren’t so galling.

    The good, life-respecting Catholic.

    *spit*

  4. 4
    ruemara says:

    These are horrific people.

  5. 5
    burnspbesq says:

    Not by any stretch of the imagination trying to exculpate Abramoff or Santorum, but …

    Working conditions on Saipan were, and are, no worse than they in similar apparel and textile factories anywhere else in the world. I’ve been to factories in China and India. Those jobs are better than subsistence farming (albeit not by much), which is why there is always an ample supply of people willing to take them.

    But unless you’re prepared to pay $25 for a three-pack of white boxer shorts, it will never change.

  6. 6
    Raven says:

    @burnspbesq: Stop with the facts.

  7. 7
    JGabriel says:

    Nate Silver: Santorum Surges In Iowa And Beyond

    Ewww?

    Seriously, though, I’d like to see Santorum win the IA caucus. It couldn’t happen to a nicer party. Plus, I doubt there’s an easier candidate to beat in the general — not that he’d ever make it that far.

    .

  8. 8
    Benjamin Franklin says:

    red meat, ummmmmm

    vegans go fish.

  9. 9

    @burnspbesq:
    So you have some source for the $25 boxers?

  10. 10
    JGabriel says:

    @MikeBoyScout:

    Santorum is scum.

    No need to resort to euphemism, we’re all Democrats here.

    We all read Dan Savage too. So we all know Santorum is (sotto voce) anal froth.

    .

  11. 11
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    So, if you don’t like forced abortions, you shouldn’t vote Republican? Never would have guessed.

  12. 12
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @10 JGabriel:

    Apologies, but I know him and bear some guilt that he ever won a congressional seat in 1990.

  13. 13
    JGabriel says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Working conditions on Saipan were, and are, no worse than they in similar apparel and textile factories anywhere else in the world. I’ve been to factories in China and India.

    Right, but … the Northern Marianas are a US territory, not China or India. There’s no reason why workers in Saipan, and the CNMI, shouldn’t be afforded the same protections as American workers in the rest of the country — like Puerto Rico, for instance.

    .

  14. 14
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @burnspbesq:

    The boxer shorts example may be a bad one (I never buy used underwear) but that is one of the reasons that I buy all my clothes at thrift stores. On Friday last week one of my favorite ones was having a “bag sale” everything you can stuff in a paper grocery sack for $5.00. I bought one turtle neck (new, still with tags attached)for about 1/4 the original price and everything else I stuffed in the bag was basically free. I am neither lining the pockets of the Walton heirs nor supporting sweat shops. It is also recycling at its finest, keeps stuff out of the landfill, supports a local charity (in this case Domestic Violence shelter, others Goodwill, Salvation Army), and helps save the planet. Myself and the DH swan around in the finest of brands, Ralph Lauren, Talbots, Haggar, Calvin Klein, etc., etc., we are probably the best dressed school teacher and paralegal in four counties and it costs me next to nothing.

  15. 15
    Maude says:

    Thanks for this post Dennis.
    I do think that people will pay more for things if they are made here. After the pet food poison and Matel toy snafu, people are willing to get better quality and pay for it.
    For the comgress creeps,it’s all about greed and money and power.
    What is also awful is now may got away with this.

  16. 16

    @JGabriel:

    Yes, now that all my favorites have tanked (Bachmann first, followed by Perry, Cain and Gingrich), I’m pulling for Santorum. I didn’t know he was knee deep in the NMTT shit, but knowing him (he was my senator from 1994 to 1998, when I moved to Washington, D.C.), it doesn’t shock me. He’s just the kind of guy who would be happy to fuck poor, luckless people over for a few thousand dollars.

    Al Franken wrote about this outrage in the NMTT in one of his books. He put it better than anybody else ever has: These creeps aren’t anti-abortion, they’re anti-choice. They don’t want women to have the right to choose to have an abortion; nor do they want them to have the right to choose not to have one.

  17. 17
    Maude says:

    Thanks for this post Dennis.
    I do think that people will pay more for things if they are made here. After the pet food poison and Matel toy snafu, people are willing to get better quality and pay for it.
    For the comgress creeps,it’s all about greed and money and power.
    What is also awful is now many got away with this.

  18. 18
    BO_Bill says:

    Another way to look at this is that the minimum wage in the Northern Marianas Islands was $3.05/hr (1997-2007), or nearly $40/day. It was raised to $3.55/hr in 2007 with a $0.50/hr raise planned annually thereafter. A law signed under President Barry delayed the increase in 2009.

    So the Northern Marianas Islands are an absolute frickin’ economic paradise when compared with Central America (wages: $3/day), or Africa (wages: $1/day but no work). Rick Santorum should perhaps be celebrated for his relatively non-existant connection with bringing these islands into the club of the world’s wealthy.

  19. 19
    JGabriel says:

    @MikeBoyScout:

    Apologies, but I know him and bear some guilt that he ever won a congressional seat in 1990.

    I’d left Pennsyltucky about 5 years previously, so no guilt here. But are you feeling guilty because you actually voted for him, or do you feel like you didn’t do enough to stop him?

    Feel free to take the Fifth.

    .

  20. 20
    phantomist says:

    Now, my friends, I’ll offer anybody here $50 an hour if you’ll go sew underwear in northern Marianas for the whole year. So — OK? Sign up. OK.

  21. 21
    Raven says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: When I wear em I don’t be wearin no used drawers.

  22. 22
    cmorenc says:

    Why has no debate moderator so far asked candidate Santorum about his connection to the Tan group, Jack Abramoff, and labor issues in the Northern Mariana Islands?

  23. 23
  24. 24
    Hungry Joe says:

    That $25 for a three-pack of boxers is bullshit. The sweatshop labor that goes into, say, a $12 three-pack is probably $1 at most. I made that up, so call it $2. Obviously I made that up, too, so call it $3. No, call it $4, just for the hell of it, even thought that’s obviously way too high. Now double the sweatshop laborer’s (exaggerated) pay. Even that over-the-top example would increase the $12 boxer three-pack to just $16. They can pay decent wages and still turn a nice profit, all right — they just don’t want to. And Santorum helped make it happen. Such a Godly man.

  25. 25
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @19 JGabriel:

    Let me just say had I not left the Burgh in 1989 Santorum would have had no chance of defeating Doug Walgren in the 18th congressional in 1990.
    No.Chance.

  26. 26

    @cmorenc:

    Well, that wouldn’t be nice, would it? After all, Rick Santorum is a nice, nice guy. They know him, after all, and go to parties with him and with his friends, and he’s a nice, nice, nice guy. He was sad when his unborn child died, and he loves his children and he goes to church every week. Would he do these things if he weren’t a nice, nice guy? It would be mean and unseemly for moderators to ask such a nice, nice guy pointed questions like that. And it might open them up to being called (shudder) liberal!

  27. 27
  28. 28
  29. 29
    Maude says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    I have gotten stuff for a tiny amount of money and it was quality. I always say the the household stuff I get second hand has a history, just not mine. This is the way to go if you can.

  30. 30
  31. 31
    Yutsano says:

    BoB is babbling again. And what is up with right-wing trolls never linking their supposed facts?

  32. 32
    Dennis G. says:

    @burnspbesq: You speak from a place of talking points. I know that in this case you are quite wrong. The Galtian myth that sweatshops are good for people is a strong one that pulls in many folks. So it goes…

  33. 33
    JoeShabadoo says:

    @Afferent Input:

    It always amazes me how little money it takes to buy off congressmen

    I agree. This is an absolute pittance for the kind of power they are buying. It’s no wonder these corporations think buying off reps is a great investment.
    It really makes me think that there is a lot going on we don’t see though. Maybe not all materials that can get them busted but stuff like thousand dollar dinners and bottles of wine every night that can easily have their trails erased.

  34. 34
    gwangung says:

    @Dennis G.: Just to be accurate, I don’t think he was saying it was a good thing.

  35. 35
    Benjamin Franklin says:

    @Raven:

    +1

  36. 36

    Sweatshop workers get not much; doubling or even tripling their wage means a lot to them; but very little to the cost of the garment.

    http://www.fordschool.umich.ed.....llenge.doc

  37. 37
    RossInDetroit says:

    @burnspbesq:

    But unless you’re prepared to pay $25 for a three-pack of white boxer shorts, it will never change.

    Well, there’s Hanro for $60/pair. The Swiss are neutral, which may help.

  38. 38
    some guy says:

    Coerced abortions. Santorum helped facilitate them.
    Coerced abortions. Santorum helped facilitate them.
    Coerced abortions. Santorum helped facilitate them.

    the attack ads write themselves.

  39. 39
    some guy says:

    This paper provides some empirical evidence on issues raised by the global anti-sweatshop movement. We first consider the relationship between wage and employment growth, finding no consistent trade-off between them. We then measure the share of labour costs in the production of garments in the US and Mexico. We find that the retail price increases necessary to absorb the costs of raising wages substantially are small, well within the range of price increases that polls suggest US consumers are willing to pay. We close by considering some implications of these results.

    http://cje.oxfordjournals.org/.....3.abstract

  40. 40
    clayton says:

    Ever since Nixon the wing nuts have been on the side of the mainland Chinese and against your every day Americans.

    It’s brought us what Dennis writes about here, Walmart and has given the mainland Chinese the idea that if you aren’t cheating you aren’t trying, and so they do. They work every angle.

    I do my best not to buy Chinese and have had just a little impact on my friends and family. It’s not easy, and sometimes I go without something, but there is no greater satisfaction than buying something that I know wasn’t made by hurting someone.

    I wish more manufacturers were upfront about where their materials come from and where and how they are put together. I often pay more for something (a food processor from France for example)and am deliberate in my purchases, but it is worth every penny.

    For those who don’t want to got the second hand route, American Apparel is one choice or this.

  41. 41
    gene108 says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Where did you got to in India?

    From knowing folks on the management side of manufacturing there, there’s a strong union presence in some factories, while the hot labor market in India makes it hard to push down on employees…they can always get work at that level doing something else or somewhere else…

    There’s enough scope in a country as vast as India to have labor abuses, but the economic growth, from what I gather, has curbed some of it or at least given people options.

  42. 42
    SuzieC says:

    @some guy:

    Oh, this is explosive. Please let it get wide coverage.

  43. 43
    clayton says:

    At the union label link, there are men’s briefs — 2 for $20, 10 for $90.

  44. 44
  45. 45
    Raven says:

    @clayton: You really think Walmart taught the Chinese about commerce? Don’t get out much do ya?

  46. 46
    JGabriel says:

    @Horrendo Slapp (formerly Jimperson Zibb, Duncan Dönitz, Otto Graf von Pfmidtnöchtler-Pízsmőgy, Mumphrey, et al.):

    @BO_Bill: What the fuck is wrong with you?

    I’m pretty sure (though not certain) that’s not the original Brick Oven Bill.

    For instance, Original BOB used to include a link to his website in his handle.

    Also, this BO_Bill just doesn’t bring the crazy like old Original BOB.

    .

  47. 47
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @Maude:

    I am with you. I am wearing $75.00 jeans that cost me $2.75. People are stupid (and I hate to say it but women especially, in the clothes buying scenario, are the worst offenders). I do not understand buying something, never wearing it, never taking off the tags, and then donating it to a thrift store. I mean it must be nice to have the means to do that but why not just get up in the morning and flush your cash down the toilet? I bought a suit a couple of months ago at a bag sale, it was a silk lined, powder blue pants suit (perfect for court) it still had the $199.99 tags on it and I paid $5.00 (and everything else I bought was free). I admit I do not understand “shopping” as a hobby, it has always been a necessity for me (unless I am talking about thrift stores and they are my guilty pleasure). To me it is the thrill of the hunt, no matter what it is I need, if only I wait long enough I will eventually find it in a thrift store. My toaster died recently and rather than go and spend the princely sum of $10.00 for a new one I went on a mooch to all of my local thrift stores and scored one for $2.50.

  48. 48

    @some guy:
    burnsie hasn’t bothered to cover his little bomb, same holds true for legal/illegal hires in this country.

  49. 49
    clayton says:

    @Raven: That’s not what I said, nor what I meant.

    Walmart opened the door wide, so very wide, for cheap Chinese imports.

  50. 50
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I never buy used underwear

    Oh good, a new rotating BJ tag!

  51. 51
    clayton says:

    @Raven: My bad. Forgot my Oxford comma. Sorry.

  52. 52

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    My wife consistently gets compliments on how she is dressed. Her undergarments are about the only thing she buys new in clothing.

  53. 53
    Raven says:

    @clayton: Oh, I get it.

  54. 54

    @debit: #28

    BOB:

    It is fun to see BOB post about pie and then watch the other commenters go shit crazy and throw one conniption fit after another.

    Always good for a chuckle.

  55. 55
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @BO_Bill:

    the minimum wage in the Northern Marianas Islands was $3.05/hr (1997-2007), or nearly $40/day

    The 13-hour workday?

  56. 56
    Sly says:

    @Afferent Input:

    It always amazes me how little money it takes to buy off congressmen…

    Why buy them off when they’re so much cheaper to rent?

    @burnspbesq:

    Working conditions on Saipan were, and are, no worse than they in similar apparel and textile factories anywhere else in the world.

    Except apparel and textile factories in Bangalore can’t slap “Made in America” on the garment label while simultaneously existing outside the jurisdiction of United States Labor Laws. That is what made the efforts to protect sweatshops in CNMI so perniciously evil.

    @BO_Bill:

    Rick Santorum should perhaps be celebrated for his relatively non-existant connection with bringing these islands into the club of the world’s wealthy.

    And perhaps he can put all the coercively aborted fetuses he helped create into little glass jars and show them off to all the guests at this celebration. I hear that’s part of his kink.

  57. 57
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Linda Featheringill: I understand the appeal of the pie filter, but I just cannot bring myself to do it.

  58. 58
    S. cerevisiae says:

    Gingrich Plunges, Santorum Surges Someone at CNN has a wicked sense of humor.

  59. 59
    some guy says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    for a man who represents the economic interests of the 1% as his job reproducing their ideological claims comes quite naturally and easily.

    que sera, sera, etc…

  60. 60
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    I am always getting compliments from the Clerks over at court as to my attire. Last week I was wearing a gorgeous sweater with hand embroidered fall leaves all over the front and down the sleeves. They all said “that is a gorgeous sweater where did you get it” I responded “Sally Army $3.00” They all looked at me strange because a) it was obviously such a bargain and b) because I would actually admit where I buy my clothes, but here is the thing, I am not ashamed of it, in fact I am proud of the fact that I never buy anything new unless I am absolutely forced to. I am sure that your wife and I would get on like a house on fire.

  61. 61
    JGabriel says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I do not understand buying something, never wearing it, never taking off the tags, and then donating it to a thrift store. I mean it must be nice to have the means to do that but why not just get up in the morning and flush your cash down the toilet?

    Maybe it’s someone rich who wants to help poor people get nice things, without making them feel like they’re taking charity.

    .

  62. 62
    JGabriel says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: WIN! Chortled AND LOL’d.

    .

  63. 63
    clayton says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Do you look at where any of it was originally made? I’m just curious.

  64. 64
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @JGabriel:

    I hope that was snark, cause if it wasn’t, well never mind.

  65. 65

    My favorite Rick Santorum corporate suck-up was when he tried to prevent the National Weather Service from competing with PA-based AccuWeather.

  66. 66

    @Litlebritdifrnt:
    I know if a woman looks nice, I have no idea about what is supposed to be stylish.

    Don’t talk politics if you want to get along with her…

  67. 67
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @clayton:

    Yes obviously and alot of it was made in China (or India or wherever), (I have a particular fondness for pre-owned Egyptian cotton sheets for instance), however, by not buying new I have taken myself out of the loop between sweatshops + Sears + corporate profits. That has all gone on before I bought the item. The only profit that I am contributing to is the profit of the non-profit that is now selling the item. Win, Win.

  68. 68
    JGabriel says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: It wasn’t snark, nor was it a judgement on you. I’ve known people who think that way, but by their standards, anyone with under $100k/year is “poor”. Probably up to $150k or $200k now, since that was back in 90’s.

    They genuinely mean well, and it is better than flushing cash down a toilet, but, of course, it’s also an example of too much money.

    P.S. I’m just as much a bargain hunter, but more for groceries or online. Not a lot of thrift shops in midtown-Manhattan, unfortunately.

    .

  69. 69
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Chuck Butcher: From what I have seen around the UW campus, tight jeans tucked into tall brown boots is stylish. Also too, anything worn by the soon-to-be-ex-Mme Omnibus, with the added bonus that, even when – as usual – purchased at a sale, it is expensive.

  70. 70
    clayton says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Fair enough. However, I hope when you have the money to do so, you will support the garment makers here at home. See my suggestions above, for example.

  71. 71
    Raven says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: It ain’t just the badgerettes it’s all the rage on all the campuses. However, at Georgia they like leggings as opposed to jeans. Proly something to do with the weather.

  72. 72
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Raven: I can see it working with leggings. I am open minded that way.

  73. 73

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    Wellllll…
    Mine Mme is 58 now and what may have worked just 10yrs ago wouldn’t be such a hot idea now.

    sorry about the “soon-to-be-ex” part. Even when it is a good thing it isn’t an easy thing.

  74. 74
  75. 75
    Satanicpanic says:

    @phantomist: Actually I would do that. Probably really sucks, but it’s only a year. $5 an hour? NO WAY.

  76. 76
    Litlebritdifrnt says:

    @clayton:

    I will often have the money to do so, however, I was raised in poverty, I never had “new” clothes only “new to me” clothes. I look at clothes the same way I look at cars, you let the other poor schmuck drive it off the lot and take the $3,000 depreciation off the bat, you then buy it at a $3,000 discount 2,000 miles (or one wearing) later.

  77. 77
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Chuck Butcher: It is neither a good nor a bad thing. It is just a thing. I only use the phrase because “ex” is not yet correct and Mme, while technically correct, is not really inaccurate.

  78. 78
    Benjamin Franklin says:

    Watching 2002’s “Gangs of New York”.

    Things have really changed in the last 200 years.

  79. 79
    John O says:

    Nobody even Jesus loves me enough to give Santorum a wider audience, stipulating he can’t accomplish anything else despite truly representing a horrifying number of people in today’s GOP.

  80. 80

    @Omnes Omnibus:
    I get it, it is not an easy thing either.

  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Chuck Butcher: Thanks for the thought.

  82. 82
    Raven says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Ditto, did it about 20 years ago and I had no idea how hard it would be and that was with no kids and a pretty agreeable parting. Hang tough and be good to yourself.

  83. 83
    clayton says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: Raised in poverty. I’ll give you that. I gather you are a paralegal? I went to paralegal school and used that job to pay my way through a B.S. and Master’s degree. It’s good work if you can get it now without a degree (a degree wasn’t necessary in my day).

    I hope that you find a way to buy a $15 pair of shoes or maybe a grab bag of 7 t-shirts for $35 to support your fellow Americans.

    Just a thought.

  84. 84
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    (ETA: I don’t mean to make light, and I’m sorry things didn’t work for you and soon to be ex-Mrs. OO.)

    Sorta like my puzzlement. My husband and I divorced many years ago, then several years after that he up and died. Do I refer to him as my ex or my late husband or ex-late, or late ex? Really, it’s easier just to pretend I stayed single the whole time.

  85. 85
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Speaking of style and fashion and that — is it the done thing now for young women to go out shopping of a winter morning wearing flannel pajamas, fuzzy boots, and nothing else? Because I saw a couple of girls (guessing maybe 18 yo) in Starbucks the other day dressed like that. I don’t want to be all getoffmylawn, but I was a bit taken aback.

  86. 86
    clayton says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Only if the flannel pajamas are second hand.

    You’re welcome. :D

  87. 87
    Benjamin Franklin says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    It’s the new formality…sloppy chic.

  88. 88

    @SiubhanDuinne:
    I saw this the other night, plus winter coat on twenty something… in a bar?

  89. 89
    JGabriel says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    My husband and I divorced many years ago, then several years after that he up and died. Do I refer to him as my ex or my late husband or ex-late, or late ex? Really, it’s easier just to pretend I stayed single the whole time.

    Late-ex sounds right to me. Though the single thing works too.

    .

  90. 90
    magurakurin says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt: I’m not trying to slag you, but you should really shut up about how you find new clothes at the thrift store for 3 dollars if you want to keep doing that. Because the reason you can do that is precisely because so few people do. If everybody shopped at the thrift store there wouldn’t be anything left there worthless rags.

    Again, I’m totally with you, and when I lived in the States I did the same, but I really never thought I was somehow living apart from the “system” and not supporting the Walmart “man” or not supporting the sweat shops. Without the massive over consumption of the people around me, finding 3 dollar gems at the SA would have been impossible. I always just considered myself fortunate that I didn’t give a shit what people thought about where I shopped and in fact I have always wondered exactly why that it is so…another discussion I suppose.

    I’d happily pay more if conditions improved for workers, but if there is no reason to pay more, yeah, your way is spot on. And in truth if everyone thought like you (and I) the values at the thrift store would disappear, but the enormous amount of consumers concerned with issues like value and fairness instead of fashion and style probably would lead to changes all down the line and help those who make our clothes.

    Again, I’m not slagging you at all. Just offering my point of view.

  91. 91
  92. 92
    JGabriel says:

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    Speaking of style and fashion and that—is it the done thing now for young women to go out shopping of a winter morning wearing flannel pajamas, fuzzy boots, and nothing else?

    The khakis we wear as business casual today were originally pajama bottoms in India that migrated to military wear.

    .

  93. 93
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Making light is fine. I have no interest in derailing the thread onto this. I did have a friend, though, who at his wedding referred to his bride as his future ex-wife. Of course, the sad thing is, a the next week she was diagnosed with a particularly vicious form of breast cancer and was dead less than a year later. I got to stand up in my first Jewish wedding and be a pall bearer at my first Jewish funeral all in the course of one year. My troubles aren’t that bad. Besides, I am going to the Packer game on Sunday. So there.

  94. 94
    merrinc says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    [thrift store goodies]

    I also love shopping at thrift stores. In addition to clothes and household items, they are a great source for books. I often donate them back after reading them – cheaper than library fines for a world class procrastinator like moi.

    As for clothes, I have also too scored some nice buys still with tags, including a lovely Ann Taylor sheath for $3.50. (Every Wednesday at the Salvation Army is 50% off.) Ever since a friend of mine made a few hundred bucks selling used kids clothes at one of the annual consignment sales, I’ve been thinking about doing the same with thrift store finds.

  95. 95
    JGabriel says:

    @Chuck Butcher: Also, too. Depending on SiubhanDuinne’s mood, of course.

    .

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    clayton says:

    @Litlebritdifrnt:

    I have a particular fondness for pre-owned Egyptian cotton sheets for instance

    I’m finding this hard to believe, given the underwear exception.

    Go figure. Perhaps my mind is . . . still stuck on Santorum?

  97. 97
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @clayton: Ew. Just ew.

  98. 98
    clayton says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Had to go there, sorry.

    It’s odd to eschew underwear but advocate bedding.

  99. 99
    clayton says:

    BUY AMERICAN! NOT CHINESE!

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @clayton: I both see and do not see the distinction.

    @clayton: But I want the mu shu, not a burger.

  101. 101
    andrewsomething says:

    @phantomist:

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove, but at over a $100,000 a year I’d be on the next flight.

  102. 102
    clayton says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: There’s only a sliver of difference. And I don’t remember there being alot (sic) of bedding available at the thrift shops I used to haunt. Times may have changed.

    If you want the mu shu, you can still buy it here. I’m not advocating against the diversity that is the unions that exist here in the U.S. and very well may employ Americans of Chinese heritage — to avoid the other way of putting it.

    I’m only suggesting that buying American is not so expensive as someone up thread suggested, and it would be a big plus for those who think buying Chinese second hand relieves them of the burden of the slave labor used to produce that crap.

  103. 103
    clayton says:

    People are stupid

    And you compound it with a nice dig at females.

  104. 104
    Bill Murray says:

    @Hungry Joe: In 2008, labor costs in East/SE Asia ran from $0.22/hour in Bangledesh up to $1.36/hour in Thailand. if we choose a relatively high pay rate of $1.20 and making a piece a minute, the cost per piece is $0.02. If the US pay rate is $24/hour the cost per piece is $0.30, so the increase on a 3-pack is $0.84. Which means a 3-pack costing $25 requires a 3-pack costing $24.16 now. As always burns’ attempts to excuse the big boodle boys he idolizes don’t really hold up to scrutiny

    http://www.emergingtextiles.co.....038;r=free

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    burnspbesq says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    “So you have some source for the $25 boxers?”

    Try Turnbull & Asser.

  106. 106
    burnspbesq says:

    @Hungry Joe:

    I see the financials of Asian contract manufacturers on a semi-regular basis, and they tell a different story. What’s your source for those data?

  107. 107
    Ian says:

    Bob Schaffer, the 2008 Republican senate candidate in CO, ran against Mark Udall. Bob had the same problem of being connected to the Mariana sweatshops and K-street lobbyist connections.
    Link to wiki about this
    Santorum would be a dream candidate. Two words… Jack Abramoff

  108. 108
    Ian says:

    Bob Schaffer, the 2008 Republican senate candidate in CO, ran against Mark Udall. Bob had the same problem of being connected to the Mariana sweatshops and K-street lobbyist connections.
    Link to wiki about this
    Santorum would be a dream candidate. Two words… Jack Abramoff

  109. 109
    Ian says:

    @MikeBoyScout:
    Not scummy when its fresh.
    Oh, are you talking about the man?

  110. 110
    Ian says:

    @BO_Bill:
    Now i’m confused, are you Dougj or is realitycheck?

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    Barry says:

    @burnspbesq: “Working conditions on Saipan were, and are, no worse than they in similar apparel and textile factories anywhere else in the world. I’ve been to factories in China and India. Those jobs are better than subsistence farming (albeit not by much), which is why there is always an ample supply of people willing to take them.”

    It’s amazing how they had to use force to keep people working.

  112. 112
    Barry says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): “So, if you don’t like forced abortions, you shouldn’t vote Republican? Never would have guessed.”

    What I find d*mning here is like with Cain: sexual harrassment is OK, consensual sex not OK.

    In this case, one might think that forced abortions would result in excommunication, but nooooooooooooo.

  113. 113
    Barry says:

    @BO_Bill: “Rick Santorum should perhaps be celebrated for his relatively non-existant connection with bringing these islands into the club of the world’s wealthy.”

    As I asked the previous guy, how do things like forced abortions fit in with this paradise?

  114. 114
    Barry says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Chuck Butcher:“So you have some source for the $25 boxers?”

    burnspbesq: “Try Turnbull & Asser.”

    And this proves????????????????

  115. 115
    Barry says:

    @burnspbesq: “I see the financials of Asian contract manufacturers on a semi-regular basis, and they tell a different story. What’s your source for those data?”

    What’s your basis for us believing you?
    On all such matters, you write as a paid advocate.

  116. 116
    Hungry Joe says:

    @burnspbesq: “Data”? I didn’t say I had data; I clearly stated that I was making the figures up, and that I was doing so to point out that even doubling the (obviously exaggerated) wages that I posited wouldn’t add all that much to the cost of the product. It was a thought experiment, and a simple one at that.

  117. 117

    Psst. Dennis! Charlie Pierce knows who you are!

    http://www.esquire.com/blogs/p.....ng-6628544

    “In an invaluable post the other night at Balloon Juice, Dennis G traced Santorum’s long history with Jack Abramoff[…]”

  118. 118
    jake the snake says:

    per the post title. I have thought for quite some time, that being associated with Rick Santorum was an insult to
    a frothy mixture. At least the frothy mixture is associated with pleasure and intimacy. Rick is just associated with corruption and bigotry.

  119. 119
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Child labor won’t stick to Rick Santorum in an election season where two leading candidates (Gingrich and Cain) already proposed abolishing child labor laws in inner cities

  120. 120
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Expect that thing about anti-labor, no-minimum-wage-law, child-worker “opportunity zones”, like the early sweatshop zones in China, to make a comeback.

    Every politician with a finance shitheel as an advisory “economist” is behind this idea, which Cain proposed in the waning days of his high poll numbers.

    Block out sections of U.S. cities, give the cities huge tax breaks and grant local exceptions (somehow) to federal laws and state statutes designed to protect workers, to compete with labor prices in the developing world, not a fuckin joke, a real thing we will hear more about

    i.e. bring Saipan to New York or San Antonio or whatever

  121. 121
    cinesimon says:

    @burnspbesq: do you really not see an issue with this happening in a United States territory, with all the privileges(yet none of the responsibilities) that go with it?
    Stating they’re no worse than China’s worst is pretty much making the point against them. Yet you seem more interested in diluting the argument, than understanding the fundamental issue.
    And to be frank, there’s really no reason for any of us to believe your claims of expertise anyway.
    Indeed, there are rogue operators all over China and India. But those with official sanction – those companies that are legally operating – are without doubt better employers than the Tans, and as human beings, the workers are afforded more basic rights in India and China than in CNMI.
    You do understand that most of the workers are essentially slaves, right? That they have no legal status, and are not paid as they were told they’d be, as their ‘transport costs’ are being paid back to the virtuous Tans, year after year?
    I mean, it goes on and on.
    You’re trivializing this issue by making it about our consumerism: in developing countries, cheap labor can be an extremely valuable and positive thing for the communities.
    In CNMI, the cheap labor is imported and abused. In an American territory.

  122. 122
    Eric says:

    It will be difficult for Rick to escape his internet name definition, especially since “Santorum” rearranges to spell “To Mr. Anus.” It’s just fate. See http://daisybrain.wordpress.co.....ervations/

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