Naomi Wolf’s ‘Shocking Truths’ on #OWS Crackdowns are False

I called bullshit and Bullshit finally responded: “It’s bullshit.”

Naomi Wolf’s feverish article charging that the crackdowns of occupy locations were being coordinated by federal law enforcement agencies has captured the #OWS collective consciousness.

And, as it turns out, the sole basis for her article — Rick Ellis’s article in Examiner.com — was debunked by Ellis himself nine days before Wolf decided to feed her feverish fact-free article to the frenzied masses.

But let’s back up.

Naomi Wolf: Hunting for a scandal

As you may recall, Michael Moore tweeted on November 15 that the occupy crackdowns were being coordinated by DHS and greenlit by President Obama. When challenged, he pointed to journalist Rick Ellis’s article in Examiner.com. Moore then appeared on Current TV and ran with the crackdown rumor.

Wonkette picked it up and ran with it on November 16, also relying on Ellis’s article. I called bullshit on the 15th and again on the 16th, after which I assumed the issue was settled — at least until Ellis verified his story (as he said he would do in his last update to his article on 15th.)

Days later on November 22, in an error-riddled post on her personal blog, Naomi Wolf picked up the torch:

Now is the time to get cops on board with the OWS movement — especially now that Alternet has broken the story that municipal police are being pushed around by a shadowy private policing consultancy affiliated with DHS. [No, actually Alternet broke no source story, as Joshua Holland, Alternet’s senior editor, explains here. -ed.] If you study any closing society decent people get handed monstrous orders and are forced to comply, and right now municipal police are being forced to comply with brutal orders from this corporate police consultancy, by economic pressure.

Three days after that, on November 25, Wolf wrote a post in the Guardian accusing Congress (with the greenlight from the White House, of course) of attempting to wipe the Occupy movement off the map out of fear over one of Occupy Wall Street’s demands.

You see, Wolf, frustrated (ironically so) that the media wasn’t reporting on Occupy Wall Street’s message, solicited occupiers online: “What do you want?” Of the hundreds of answers she received, one answer apparently shocked her so much that it sent her careening down Conspiracy Lane. This shocking OWS demand would “draft laws against the little-known loophole that currently allows members of Congress to pass legislation affecting Delaware-based corporations in which they themselves are investors.” (emphasis hers.)

Got that? Wolf asked a bunch of people on the internets “What does OWS want?”; a bunch of people responded; Wolf created some list of “agenda items” from these online responses; and then melodramatically declares, “When I saw this list – and especially the last agenda item – the scales fell from my eyes.” ::cue ominous music::

For the terrible insight to take away from news that the Department of Homeland Security coordinated a violent crackdown is that the DHS does not freelance. The DHS cannot say, on its own initiative, “we are going after these scruffy hippies”. Rather, DHS is answerable up a chain of command: first, to New York Representative Peter King, head of the House homeland security subcommittee, who naturally is influenced by his fellow congressmen and women’s wishes and interests. And the DHS answers directly, above King, to the president (who was conveniently in Australia at the time) [No. DHS is not “answerable up a chain of command. That is false. DHS is a cabinet-executive committee that does not have a “chain of command”; does not report to Congress (except for a few reports required by law); and does not “answer directly” to either Peter King or President Obama, as Alternet’s Josh Holland explains here. -ed.]

In other words, for the DHS to be on a call with mayors, the logic of its chain of command and accountability implies that congressional overseers, with the blessing of the White House, told the DHS to authorise mayors to order their police forces – pumped up with millions of dollars of hardware and training from the DHS – to make war on peaceful citizens.

So what exactly does Wolf think would cause our elected officials to begin waging war on us? Greed, obviously — the need to protect their own economic privilege and to keep hidden information that, according to Wolf, would “surely reveal corruption on a Wall Street spectrum.”

But wait: why on earth would Congress advise violent militarised reactions against its own peaceful constituents? The answer is straightforward: in recent years, members of Congress have started entering the system as members of the middle class (or upper middle class) – but they are leaving DC privy to vast personal wealth, as we see from the “scandal” of presidential contender Newt Gingrich’s having been paid $1.8m for a few hours’ “consulting” to special interests. The inflated fees to lawmakers who turn lobbyists are common knowledge, but the notion that congressmen and women are legislating their own companies’ profits is less widely known – and if the books were to be opened, they would surely reveal corruption on a Wall Street spectrum. Indeed, we do already know that congresspeople are massively profiting from trading on non-public information they have on companies about which they are legislating – a form of insider trading that sent Martha Stewart to jail.

Scandal! Outrage!

Naomi Wolf: Lionized

Over the past few days, Wolf has been lauded as some sort of progressive hero for revealing the shocking truth about the conspiratorial war that Congress and President Obama have been waging on peaceful citizens. Twitter has gone bananas in the wake of her post. Frankly, it has been appalling to see the left manipulated so deftly by those who likely have agendas that don’t square with Occupy Wall Street’s.

I tried to slow the roll of Wolf’s fact-free screed — The Shocking Truth about Naomi Wolf’s Journalistic Hackery — but to little avail. And, disturbingly, in response to my post on Wolf”s unfounded claims, people have accused me of trying to “silence” Wolf or of trying to “defend” President Obama. Some have argued nonsensically that I should stop being so hard on Wolf and try to find The Truth. These arguments are unavailing.

Naomi Wolf herself should have tried to find “The Truth” before going off half-cocked about the feds running point on covert nationwide ops to crackdown on Occupy locations (never mind that not all Occupy locations have devolved into violence), based upon nothing but speculation, supposition, her gut instinct, and the general truthiness of the purported facts as proffered by Rick Ellis on a site that is (I’m told by people who know such things) merely a collection of blogs with no editorial oversight. Oh, and it is owned by a Murdoch-grade wingnut, Philip Anschutz.

I can understand why so many have accepted Wolf’s claims as truth. After all, the source upon which her claims are based, Rick Ellis, lays out a case that has all the elements of a good conspiracy, one that occupiers already distrustful of the government would accept unquestioningly:

And according to one Justice official, each of those actions was coordinated with help from Homeland Security, the FBI and other federal police agencies.

The official, who spoke on background to me late Monday evening, said that while local police agencies had received tactical and planning advice from national agencies, the ultimate decision on how each jurisdiction handles the Occupy protests ultimately rests with local law enforcement.

According to this official, in several recent conference calls and briefings, local police agencies were advised to seek a legal reason to evict residents of tent cities, focusing on zoning laws and existing curfew rules. Agencies were also advised to demonstrate a massive show of police force, including large numbers in riot gear. In particular, the FBI reportedly advised on press relations, with one presentation suggesting that any moves to evict protesters be coordinated for a time when the press was the least likely to be present.

It feels true, right? I mean, it’s probably true, yeah. I bet it’s true. It’s definitely true — no doubt about it. We are under attack by our own government.

Naomi Wolf: Eating Crow

Except no, we are not under attack by our own government, or, at least, nothing substantiates Wolf’s claims that we are. And, incredibly, (and much to Wolf’s discredit) Rick Ellis debunked the story himself nine days before Wolf’s article was published in the Guardian. On November 16, Ellis writes in yet another article on Examiner.com,

Since I published my initial story about how several federal law enforcement agencies had been providing logistical advice to local authorities on how to handle the ‘Occupy’ protests, I have been attempting to get an official response from the Dept. Of Homeland Security (DHS).

I’ve spoken to several high-ranking DHS officials on background in the last 24 hours, and they stressed several things to me.

First, despite some press reports to the contrary, the only official DHS role in any ‘Occupy’ arrests took place in Portland. In that case, officers from Federal Protective Services (which is tasked with protecting federal buildings) assisted the Portland Police Bureau in clearing the federally-owned Terry Shrunk Plaza. Officers from FPS did make several arrests, although it’s not clear how many.

I was also assured that FPS officers only had jurisdiction on federal property and would only make arrests after the situation has been deemed unsafe or unsanitary by the General Services Administration (GSA). That agency is that is the permitting authority for protests on federal property.

When I tried to get a sense of how much involvement the department may have had in assisting local tactical plans, I was told DHS is not actively coordinating with local governments or police agencies on the ‘Occupy’ evictions.

What isn’t clear to me is what is meant by “actively” coordinating. That definition leaves a lot of room for advice, both tactical and otherwise.

Ellis also obtained an official response from DHS spokesman, Matthew Chandler:

“Any decisions on how to handle specifics situations are dealt with by local authorities in that location. If a protest area is located on Federal property and has been deemed unsanitary or unsafe by the General Services Administration (GSA) or city officials, and they make a decision to evacuate participants, the Federal Protective Service (FPS) will work with those officials to develop a plan to ensure the security and safety of everyone involved.”

Thus, as it turns out, Wolf’s article has no factual basis whatsoever and is, therefore, a journalistic failure of the highest order. Are various mayors and cities talking to one another? I’m sure they are. Are they receiving advice from the feds? I’m sure they are. But as Josh Holland writes,”[t]he difference between local officials talking to each other — or federal law enforcement agencies advising them on what they see as “best practices” for evicting local occupations — and some unseen hand directing, incentivizing or coercing municipalities to do so when they would not otherwise be so inclined is not a minor one. It’s not a matter of semantics or a distinction without difference.”

If Homeland Security, the FBI, and federal law enforcement officials were working in concert to violently crackdown on the Occupy movement, that would be a huge deal. If — as Naomi Wolf baselessly charged — the feds were being ordered to do so by Congress and the White House in order to protect their personal wealth, it would (and should) be a significant scandal. But, again, there is no evidence to support her claims.

Naomi Wolf: Outfoxed

Given the the gravity of the accusations made by Wolf against Congress and the White House, it was incumbent on her to fully research her claims and to provide facts to back them up. Moreover, the fact that Ellis made and then walked backed his claims — the claims which formed the sole basis for Wolf’s and other articles about these purported coordinated crackdowns — nine days before Wolf decided to provide more grist for the rumor mill suggests that truth-seeking is not her goal — narrative-creating is.

Yes, Ellis concluded his clarification (which reads more like a well-spun retraction) by claiming he was “left with more questions than answers” and that he had concerns about the meaning of “actively coordinated.”

But certainly Ellis’s original claims — that the FBI provided local authorities with specifics on amount of force, use of riot gear, time of day, and press relations — fall on their face. If Ellis’s original claims don’t constitute “active coordination” — the sort that DHS denies — then I don’t know what would constitute “active coordination.” (And furthermore, if the Justice official upon whom Ellis relied has knowledge of facts regarding these crackdowns why won’t he step forward? Why did he not provide such information to actual news organizations? Why did Ellis spend 24 hours in contact with Homeland Security but made no apparent effort to contact any other DOJ officials?)

The bottom line is this: Irrespective of Ellis’s lingering questions, Naomi Wolf assumed “violent federal coordination of crackdowns” as fact, and then spun a web of conspiratorial acts and nefarious deeds by individuals at the highest levels of the government. And based on what? NOTHING.

This is what Fox News does. This is what the right-wing does. This is not what liberals are supposed to do. We live in a reality-based world. In a world where Hawaii is a state, Africa is a continent, President Obama is not a secret Muslim, and anchor babies aren’t real.

We don’t live in a Teabilly Fox-infected world that thrives on fear of the unknown boogeyman hiding in the closet. We don’t live in a world where “journalists” spew bullshit designed to manipulate and play upon the fears of their readers. We don’t live in a world where “Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if Naomi Wolf’s made-up claims are true” constitutes critical thinking.

And if I’m wrong — if we do live in a world fraught with feverished paranoia? If this is what progressivism and liberalism has become, then we’re fucked. If we cannot rely on progressive and liberal journalists and bloggers to tell the truth and do their jobs, then we’re no better than the wingnuts. Should we take credible sources and concerns about potential federal involvement and investigate them? Absolutely. Should we draw conclusions from unsourced claims and tout them as The Truth. Absolutely not.

We can’t call out Fox News for this kind of crap while engaging in it ourselves.

This is just not who we are.

[cross-posted at Angry Black Lady Chronicles]

253 replies
  1. 1
    David Koch says:

    This post just doesn’t just happen. It is clearly being coordinated by Reich Fuhrer Napolitano.

  2. 2
    Brian S says:

    Excellent post. Hope it doesn’t get the same treatment in comments the Manning thread did.

  3. 3
    Baud says:

    I suspect their are a lot of forces within OWS (firebaggers, Paulites, etc.) that are trying to pull the movement in a particular direction. ABL, do you (or anyone else) have a sense of whether OWS as a whole is getting distracted by these types of thinly-sourced stories?

  4. 4
    (another) Josh says:

    Forgive me if this issue has been discussed on a prior comment thread, but I’m disturbed that there are smart people on the Left who trust Naomi Wolf. A quick look at her columns over the last year or two shows her praising the Tea Party, styling Palin and Bachmann “feminists”, and decrying “The Fed’s money-printing operation.”

  5. 5
    Cap'n Magic says:

    “Never believe anything until it’s officially denied.”

  6. 6
    Baud says:

    I think this is not correct:

    DHS is not “answerable up a chain of command. That is false. DHS is a cabinet-executive committee that does not have a “chain of command”; does not report to Congress (except for a few reports required by law); and does not “answer directly” to either Peter King or President Obama.

    DHS does ultimately answer to Napolitano, who answers to Obama. PERF, on the other hand, is a just committee.

  7. 7
    Violet says:

    We can’t call out Fox News for this kind of crap while engaging in it ourselves.
    __
    This is just not who we are.

    If we are doing it then it is who we are. It is not who we should be.

    People the world over get invested in proving their beliefs to be right and true. Ego over truth. It can destroy empires.

  8. 8
    MikeJ says:

    Wolf wrote a post in the Guardian accusing Congress (with the greenlight from the White House, of course

    Because congress is so good at working with itself right now, much less how good they are at taking orders from the White House.

  9. 9
    David Koch says:

    @(another) Josh: You missed the interview where she says Obama is a “dictator” who is acting just like “Hitler”.

    http://www.tnr.com/blog/jonathan-chait/crying-wolf

  10. 10
    cat48 says:

    There’s an article in the Boston Phoenix explaining what PERF is and is not; b/c PERF always comes up in these threads. This is just FYI with no link b/c I’m working on my “Cyber Monday” shopping & refuse to take the time out to do a link.

  11. 11
    Brian S says:

    @MikeJ: It’s the great conspiracy paradox–how can a government which can’t take care of basic bureaucracy be responsible for carrying out plots of massive complexity whil keeping them secret from all but the most intrepid of amateur sleuths?

  12. 12
    jon says:

    @Baud: OWS as a whole is angry about getting pushed and wondering if it was betrayed, and the fact that that story had legs proves it’s looking for someone to point to. When a group attacks as nebulous an entity as “Wall Street”, there’s already ripe opportunity for conspiracies to take root. Just as there’s no one true spokesman or mind for one, there isn’t for the other. And looking for the “movement” to even have a “whole” is largely a mistake.

    But yeah, the Obama Betrayalists are always able to get distracted by the thinly-veiled stories about just how Obama let them down today. Also, too: Obama never made a deal to give up on the public option, though it was removed when it was clear the Congress wouldn’t pass one. But don’t tell that to the true non-believers.

  13. 13

    This is just not who we are.

    You, me and some others, maybe…But it’s the reporting-the-plausible-as-true m.o. of the conspiracy theorists and their enablers who compose a significant, if not majority, slice of the Purist Progs.

  14. 14
    General Stuck says:

    Dingbat with a microphone

  15. 15
    jeff says:

    Thanks! You know the social-realist definition of truth as what furthers the revolution? It sucks.

  16. 16
    capt says:

    Complete BS from Wolf – sad but not totally unexpected.

    ABL, keep exposing the BS to your beautiful sunshine.

  17. 17
    El Cid says:

    Was Wolf’s writing on this matter high profile? I didn’t actually see it that much.

  18. 18
    Baud says:

    @jon:

    But don’t tell that to the true non-believers.

    I’ve already written off the true non-believers, but I haven’t placed OWS in that category yet. OWS seems a little like Russian Roulette to me — eventually someone is going to get shot, and it could be the good guys just as easily as the bad guys.

  19. 19
    David Koch says:

    @jon:

    OWS as a whole is angry about getting pushed and wondering if it was betrayed, and the fact that that story had legs proves it’s looking for someone to point to.

    Bingo. This is nothing more than another dolchstoßlegende.

  20. 20
    Baud says:

    FYI, apparently the phrase “gets shot” puts one in moderation. Help!

  21. 21
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Is Naomi Wolf all that important? Or is she the new Hamsher, who I had not even heard of till I started reading this blog.

  22. 22
    MikeJ says:

    @Baud: I’ve got a greasemonkey script that warns you if a known spam trap trigger appears in your comment.

    It’s at the link my name points to.

  23. 23
    Woodrowfan says:

    boy, you see racism in everything! A white guy just can’t catch a break! (just kidding, but it ain’t an ABL thread without someone accusing ABL of that. ;) )

    Seriously, you’re right. I hate when the left goes off yelling wolf. There are enough real ones in the forest without Michael Moore and Co. inventing more…

  24. 24
    Rick Massimo says:

    You know, I’ve been a little conflicted about how to react to the snippets I’ve been reading the past couple of days of black writers saying essentially, “Yeah, sure, NOW everyone’s up in arms about police overreaction; where have you been? It’s an everyday fact of life for us.” I got what they meant, but I also felt a little “Better late than never, no?”

    Then I read about Wolf’s accusations, and I think, “Wow, you got peacefully arrested ONE time and you are TOTALLY GOING OFF” and I get what those writers are saying.

  25. 25
    amk says:

    ows, who ? Never has a movement gone into a tailspin in such a short time by letting 1%ers like mm, gg and this naomi gal hijack their messaging.

  26. 26
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @El Cid: @schrodinger’s cat:
    Wolf’s article was on the Guardian web site, which is relatively high profile, with an international audience.

    Having said that, the Guard also published Grover Fucking Norquist, so you know, both sides and all that.

  27. 27
    Violet says:

    @amk:
    OWS should have told ANY 1%er to stay out. Handpicking a few “approved” 1%ers they allow to speak for them isn’t doing their movement any favors.

  28. 28

    @jon:

    OWS as a whole is angry about getting pushed and wondering if it was betrayed, and the fact that that story had legs proves it’s looking for someone to point to.

    This is what I’m not getting about this: They employ the tactics of passive resistance/civil disobedience and then bitch- not ironically, not with a wink- that they’re being brutalized, and they bitch to the point where they’re no longer addressing the underlying issues.

    Hey, dumbasses, accept the beatdowns as gifts to the movement and use them to focus on the economic disparity that holds us all down.

  29. 29
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @El Cid:

    Was Wolf’s writing on this matter high profile? I didn’t actually see it that much.

    I thought it was just a voice crying out in the wilderness myself… until in the past two days I saw two reliably liberal Facebook friends pick it up. Like the honey badger, it may be an intart00bz phenomenon.

  30. 30

    Regarding Wolf, if the latinum is offered, somebody’s gonna take it. She’s been slurping the Tea Party, Palin, and all the other usual suspects for a while now. If it looks, sounds, smells, walks, and talks like a ratf*ucking jabroni, then guess what?

  31. 31
    Baud says:

    @Mike J #22:

    Thanks.

  32. 32
    Gromitt Gunn says:

    Thanks for keeping up on this one ABL.

  33. 33
    Corner Stone says:

    Where does one go to pay respects to the horse?

  34. 34
  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Baud:

    I think your correction is not correct. :-) Wolf’s claim is that Rep. Peter King (R-NY) is in the DHS chain of command — ie, she thinks that DHS reports to King, who then reports to the President. As you said, this is completely incorrect — Janet Napolitano is the head of DHS. King has an oversight role as head of his committee in the House, but he is not in the chain of command. At all.

    Basically, Wolf is a fucking idiot who has no idea that cabinet-level departments like DHS are actually in a different goddamned branch of government than the House of Representatives and that King has an oversight role over DHS, not a leadership role.

    But you can’t get a good “legislators and president conspiring together!” rumor going unless you conflate the two so even more malinformed idiots can read it and think you know what you’re talking about because, hey, they’ve never even heard of Peter King, much less Janet Napolitano, so it sounds plausible to claim that King does Napolitano’s job.

  36. 36
    Robert says:

    I’ve seen Wolf’s article pop up on crafting boards, media boards, writing boards, movie boards, and gaming boards since it was published. Huge threads break out with people busting out their tinfoil hats and praying the reverse vampires don’t take their parents away. It’s not some tiny little thing as much as many would wish it was.

  37. 37
    Gex says:

    @amk: By letting?

    ETA: Best hippie punch ever. Didn’t even see it coming.

  38. 38

    @Guster:

    What do they think they’re getting into in the first place? Pony rides? The history of passive resistance/civil disobedience is rife with police brutality, and it isn’t just something to be expected, but something to be encouraged, if only subtly. Make The Man lose his shit, gain support. Gandhi’s movement took advantage of this, King’s did, Mandela’s did….So, yeah, dumbasses.

  39. 39
    David Koch says:

    Personally, I’m waiting for the Oliver Stone movie showing flaming gay CIA agents in New Orleans conspired with OBama, Napolitano, and LBJ’s hippie punching ghost to trigger the collapse of the Boston Red Sox.

  40. 40
    Sly says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Where does one go to pay respects to the horse?

    Under the bus.

  41. 41
    agrippa says:

    Well, there is no proof.

  42. 42
    Joey Giraud says:

    No one can really know what’s “in Obama’s heart,” but…

    We all heard about George Bush packing the administration with deep-cover Civil Service Republican lackeys. We all heard about how hard it was going to be for Obama to clear out these stooges and put in his own people. There must be a lot of them still in place, helping the Republican project by making Democrats mad at Obama.

    Why do so many people blame Obama for everything the Administrative branch does? In principle Obama is responsible, but is he really able to control all those agencies actions every day?

    IMO, the Presidency has become, at least for Democrats, the Scapegoat in Chief.

    I also think that Jesus Christ himself couldn’t do much better under the current circumstances, at least not without supernatural assistance. Not that I believe Obama is “good incarnate.” I just don’t think his virtue is the issue.

  43. 43
    geg6 says:

    Fuck Naomi Wolf and fuck any of the assholes who buy into her PUMA bullshit. Keep on keeping on, ABL, and keep on exposing her and Hamsher and all the Manic “Progressive” grifters who mean next to nothing to those who really give a damn about those who really are a part of the 99% and only seek to burnish their own credentials on the backs of the middle class, the poor, women, and children who they claim to represent. H/T to OWS and their sympathiers, latte liberals seeking to burnish their
    liberal creds are not your friends. They are the 1%. Deal with them accordingly.

  44. 44
    Violet says:

    @Gex:
    Yes, letting. Like this, from Michael Moore:

    This past weekend I participated in a four-hour meeting of Occupy Wall Street activists whose job it is to come up with the vision and goals of the movement. It was attended by 40+ people

    So 40+ OWS people are deciding what the vision and goals of the movement are and one of them is Michael Moore.

  45. 45
    bourbaki says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): What exactly are you complaining about?

    So people should be happy about repressive police tactics as it advances their political agenda, but shouldn’t actually complain or highlight this repressive behavior. In other words, if no one talks about it it will somehow magically move the conscious of the world…or something. Who exactly is believing in magical thinking?

    Here’s an idea, why don’t you watch this video and then explain how it makes you feel. Now explain how you are supposed to get other people to see watch this video…

  46. 46
    West of the Cascades says:

    We don’t live in a Teabilly Fox-infected world that thrives on fear of the unknown boogeyman hiding in the closet

    agree with amk – Michael Moore, Glenn Greenwald and Naomi Wolf DO live in a world that thrives on fear of the unknown boogeyman. It sells books and movies for them. Naomi Wolf should be ashamed of her Guardian article. People who unthinkingly repeat it are as ignorant as the right wing in this country. Thanks, ABL for continuing to hammer away at this nonsense.

    It’s bad enough when local police beat and pepper spray crowds without embellishing it with a nationwide conspiracy reaching to the top of two branches of government.

    Also love dropping into lawyerspeak “these arguments are unavailing.” Miss writing briefs yet??

  47. 47
    David Koch says:

    I’ve seen Wolf’s article pop up on crafting boards, media boards, writing boards, movie boards, and gaming boards since it was published.

    That just doesn’t happen. It must be coordinated by none other than Hillary Clinton.

  48. 48
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    To be fair, I don’t think it’s the actual protesters who have been making these complaints. I haven’t seen too much public whining from, say, the students pepper-sprayed at UC Davis.

    It’s the wannabes like Wolf who show up so they can make themselves part of the story and then are shocked — shocked! — that the cops aren’t deferring to them. Basically, it’s a cry of, “Don’t you know who I am?!”

  49. 49
    ABL says:

    @West of the Cascades:

    Also love dropping into lawyerspeak “these arguments are unavailing.” Miss writing briefs yet??

    hahaha. a little — hence the subheadings.

  50. 50
    Gina says:

    Excuse me, but I believe the excerpt below is in fact actually (as I wish to avoid parsing hairs) TRUE and if it is (as I know it is) there’s a greater issue at stake to impact every citizen of the US and perhaps, more than likely, the world:

    The National Union of Journalists and the Committee to Protect Journalists issued a Freedom of Information Act request to investigate possible federal involvement with law enforcement practices that appeared to target journalists. The New York Times reported that “New York cops have arrested, punched, whacked, shoved to the ground and tossed a barrier at reporters and photographers” covering protests. Reporters were asked by NYPD to raise their hands to prove they had credentials: when many dutifully did so, they were taken, upon threat of arrest, away from the story they were covering, and penned far from the site in which the news was unfolding. Other reporters wearing press passes were arrested and roughed up by cops, after being – falsely – informed by police that “It is illegal to take pictures on the sidewalk.”

  51. 51
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t know if it’s about deference exactly… but I agree with the first point, that there certainly has been an untoward amount of glomming onto _other people’s_ suffering to generate stories of martyrdom by proxy. A lot of “Look what they’re doing to Us!” without first earning inclusion in the “Us.” It’s not unlike referring to your local sporting franchise as “we.”

  52. 52
    karen marie says:

    This country is going to hell in a handbasket.

  53. 53
    Guster says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): So your theory is that they should a) expect police brutality, b) encourage (subtly) police brutality, and c) not make a fuss about it?

  54. 54

    “draft laws against the little-known loophole that currently allows members of Congress to pass legislation affecting Delaware-based corporations in which they themselves are investors.”

    Like, uhm, this is a surprise to anyone? That’s not a little-known loophole; that’s the Constitution based power of Congress. You know that Interstate Commerce Clause? It means that Congress can pass legislation that affects corporations, even ones based in Delaware. When Congress passes legislation that affects corporations, it affects the ones they hold equity as well as the ones that don’t.

    Laws are funny that way.

  55. 55
    policomic says:

    Thank you, thank you, thank you, ABL. Judging by the more gullible of my leftie acquaintances, the damage has already been done, but I can at least send them to this.

  56. 56

    @bourbaki:

    What exactly are you complaining about?

    That OWS and it’s most vocal supporters have lost focus. This was supposed to be about the rift between the rich, powerful 1% and the dis-empowered 99%, about money in the political/governmental process….But it’s turned into a bitch-session about police brutality- and not even police brutality that’s committed, unprompted, against individuals every day, but against people purposely disobeying the law (and to be clear, purposely disobeying the law is not a problem in my book) in furtherance of a political viewpoint. Further the original viewpoint!

  57. 57
    Satanicpanic says:

    @(another) Josh: THIS. Naomi Wolf is either an idiot or a fraud. Or a fraudulent idiot.

  58. 58

    @Guster:

    So your theory is that they should a) expect police brutality, b) encourage (subtly) police brutality, and c) not make a fuss about it?

    a). Certainly

    b). Yep- that’s how civil disobedience campaigns work

    c). They shouldn’t make a fuss over it to the point where they lose focus of the larger goals. Keep your eyes on the prize!

  59. 59
    andrewsomething says:

    @Violet:

    Handpicking a few “approved” 1%ers they allow to speak for them isn’t doing their movement any favors.

    AFAICT, the only people that “handpicked” Naomi Wolf was the Guardian.

  60. 60

    @Mnemosyne:

    To be fair, I don’t think it’s the actual protesters who have been making these complaints. I haven’t seen too much public whining from, say, the students pepper-sprayed at UC Davis.

    Which is a good reason to clarify goals and select leadership to better voice those goals.

  61. 61
    Mack Lyons says:

    This woman figured she could hitch a ride to journalistic fame with a sensational story that’d get the full, undivided attention of OWS.

    It’s great to see people willing to call out bullshit for being bullshit.

  62. 62
    jheartney says:

    Back in 2008 when I saw this, I consigned Wolf to the “complete crackpot” category. (Did you all know that there was a U.S. military coup in Oct. 2008, and that we now live in a police state? And that we must move in “police state time” to arrest those responsible? Me neither.)

    Why anyone listens to her I have no idea.

  63. 63
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mack Lyons: Well, Naomi Wolf is already famous, although she hasn’t been in the spotlight particularly recently. But Ann Coulter surfaced in the past few weeks, so maybe the bat-signal went out to all the media creatures of the 1990s. Anyone seen Niger Innis lately?

  64. 64
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Gina:

    The only actual fact in there is that the committee filed a FOIA request based on Ellis’ original story. Believe it or not, not all FOIA requests turn something up, so perhaps we should wait and see what documents they get from the request before we run around shouting that IT’S ALL TRUE!

    ETA: The “actual fact” in your story is that the NYPD took the actions detailed. Your theory that they took those actions under orders from the federal government is not an actual fact, it’s a theory.

  65. 65
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Well, Naomi Wolf is already famous, although she hasn’t been in the spotlight particularly recently

    The only reason Naomi Wolf is famous is because people confuse her with Naomi Klein.

  66. 66

    @jheartney:

    Yes, the same woman who used Gitmo as her evidence of “gulags” in the fascist USA.

  67. 67
    bjacques says:

    OWS already have to deal with actual political dirty tricks and the usual pitfalls such a movement faces without chasing after conspiracies.

  68. 68
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Nah, Naomi Wolf got famous long before Naomi Klein did… because she was an articulate feminist who looked like Shannon Doherty.

  69. 69
    El Cid says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Naomi Wolf was a bestselling author and hugely prominent commentator (as such things go) during the early 1990s, based on her book The Beauty Myth. Covers of Newsweek etc. Naomi Klein had no large public presence at that point.

  70. 70
    RareSanity says:

    If Ellis’s original claims don’t constitute “active coordination”—the sort that DHS denies—then I don’t know what would constitute “active coordination.”

    Ah, the beauty of conspiracy theories…unless the entity completely admits to all portions of the conspiracy, it is further evidence that they are “hiding something”.

    ABL (to Wolf): The DHS denied any of the coordination you wrote about.
    Wolf (to ABL): What did you expect them to say? Did you actually think they would admit to this?
    ABL: (╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

  71. 71
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @El Cid: Naomi Klein was either still in college or fresh out at that point. But maybe Naomi Wolf has gone the Way Of The Paglia.

  72. 72
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @FlipYrWhig: @El Cid: Duly noted. I have to admit having no huge mental imprint from Ms. Wolf, and did confuse her with Ms. Klein when the topic first arose.

  73. 73
    andrewsomething says:

    Any one in LA have any news about the eviction deadline set for midnight?

  74. 74
    twx says:

    I am not a huge fan of the Wolf article. But I am less of a fan of this one. At least Naomi used her real name so she could be called out. Hiding behind an nickname and wanting to be considered a journalist is like a guy in a jersey who watches football saying he is part of the team.

    I am not a journalist, and I find it annoying this site does not require its writers to use real names.

    I read your article. And I got alot of your points. But I had some issues.

    1. Ellis never states he was wrong, he states that the officials from that group made official statements that they were not conducting secret anythings with anyone. However if they are secret then telling them that they are not doing anything is still part of keeping the secret.
    http://www.examiner.com/top-ne.....s-official
    Please follow up and see if you come to the same conclusion I did, that these are not facts or retractions they are follow up.

    2. “Mayor of Oakland acknowledged that the Department of Homeland Security had participated in an 18-city mayor conference call advising mayors on “how to suppress” Occupy protests.”

    These links worked when I originally read the story. So the fact that they stopped working is suspicious. Since you are a “journalist” why not follow up and find out what happened here?

    3. “Restore the Glass-Steagall Act” has been one of the focuses since day one.I personally think this should be a war cry for all Americans right now. It was foolish to remove it and a scam. I am glad to see it came up. I agree that Delaware thing is weird.

    4. “We don’t live in a world where “journalists” spew bullshit designed to manipulate and play upon the fears of their readers. We don’t live in a world where “Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if Naomi Wolf’s made-up claims are true” constitutes critical thinking.”

    But here you are making claims that we should accept the official statements by the officials we should be questioning and posting them as the final answer and critcal thinking? Either you are a poor writer and got too emotionally wrapped up trying to prove another writer wrong and screwed up your point. Or you are doing exactly what Wolf did citing citing hearsay (As in statements rather than research) not realizing that is the same kinda of nothing Wolf used.

    Basically the only journalist in the ENTIRE thing is Ellis, who reports claims, then followed up and gets official statements, that are pretty much what we expect to get. And the Wolf makes an Opinion story, NOT A NEWS ARTICLE and it is taken as gospel. Which is a mistake I can see from average readers but should never be made by a person who posts such a bold comment as:

    “This is what Fox News does. This is what the right-wing does. This is not what liberals are supposed to do. We live in a reality-based world. In a world where Hawaii is a state, Africa is a continent, President Obama is not a secret Muslim, and anchor babies aren’t real.

    We don’t live in a Teabilly Fox-infected world that thrives on fear of the unknown boogeyman hiding in the closet. We don’t live in a world where “journalists” spew bullshit designed to manipulate and play upon the fears of their readers. We don’t live in a world where “Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if Naomi Wolf’s made-up claims are true” constitutes critical thinking”

    Continuing to cite things a liberal or creating the idea that there is liberal media is exactly the kind of bull shit that makes this world “a world fraught with feverished paranoia.” And your posting of such a poorly research and cited retort with personal attacks to another journalist while hiding behind a Pseudonym does nothing but continue its growth.

    Either play journalist for real and start researching the garbage and interpreting it in a responsible manner that delivers NEWS not opinions or fiction or realize you are part of the problem and you basically are the liberal version of the right-wing media.

    I am not a journalist or a blogger, I am a commenting passer-by who is sick of right wing left wing psudo journalism full of personal attacks, poor research and irresponsible writing.

  75. 75
    bin Lurkin' says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    The only reason Naomi Wolf is famous is because people confuse her with Naomi Klein.

    QFT

  76. 76
    jon says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): If you want to play the civil disobedience route to get attention, chances are you’re going to be arrested. I don’t think people paid much attention to that part of the history of so many movements.

    Somehow, I think “Letters from a Birmingham Howard Johnsons” just wouldn’t have had the same historical gravitas. But then again, you know who else wrote something political from a jail…?

  77. 77
    eemom says:

    meh, never mind.

  78. 78
    sherifffruitfly says:

    Anti-Obama white firebagger liberals simply DON’T CARE what’s true and what’s not. As long as it’s anti-Obama, that’s good enough.

    They are no different from teabaggers.

  79. 79
    bourbaki says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    Other than in your own head in what way has OWS lost focus? They obviously have had to deal with the fact that there main tactic (occupation) has been taken away from them (often violently) in most cities. I can’t speak for other places but on the west coast the big push now is for a coordinated shutdown of the ports on the west coast (see here which is related to a labor dispute originating with the Longshoremen’s union. This linkage with labor could be a big deal…

    Please name one social or political movement that has not exploited “martyrs” for its goals…what you call “making a fuss”, Again what exactly are you complaining about? (though if your comment at 60 is any guide I would guess that it is that the movement isn’t authoritarian enough).

  80. 80

    @jon:

    But then again, you know who else wrote something political from a jail…?

    I DO! I DO KNOW!

    But I never win anything for answering, “Hitler,” so what good is the knowledge?

  81. 81
    Joey Giraud says:

    @Sanity

    Ah, the beauty of conspiracy theories…unless the entity completely admits to all portions of the conspiracy, it is further evidence that they are “hiding something”.

    Seems like this is also a feature of regular, everyday lying.

    If only everyone would tell the truth. ;.

  82. 82

    @bourbaki:

    I can’t speak for other places but on the west coast the big push now is for a coordinated shutdown of the ports on the west coast (see here which is related to a labor dispute originating with the Longshoremen’s union. This linkage with labor could be a big deal…

    Which has gotten so lost in clouds of pepper spray that I’ve read nothing about it previously here in the Midwest- or in the geographically unimpeded prog-o-sphere.

    (though if your comment at 60 is any guide I would guess that it is that the movement isn’t authoritarian enough)

    Yes, that’s right. I want a strong person to force those protestors from their comfy homes at gunpoint to do his or her will. /snark

    But, seriously: Needs better leadership to focus, communicate, and formulate new tactics more quickly.

  83. 83
    Elie says:

    I haven’t been posting on B-J lately due to my new job — but I have been lurking off and on..

    As far as Naomi Wolfe — yes — she is a scam but I feel really bad that OWS has faltered in becoming something really serious in shaping our national conversation… Its tragic to me that we are discussing the events such as police brutality and other actions, but no longer in a national conversation about their deeper, larger message anymore… I guess I haven’t kept up enough to know who is “leading” or directing OWS — but if the fear I have is that they really don’t have any solid leadership to PREVENT the unscrupulous from pushing their own agendas..

    I still think that OWS may be still influential in stimulating others to take a stand. Their message of 99% and huge income disparaty still sings to folks, but we may need to have a variety of messengers..

    Hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving…

  84. 84
    jon says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): It’s a distinction shared by many, but only made famous by that one asshole who ruined the Oliver Hardy moustache that could so easily be worn by lazy men everywhere.

    Somehow, that one guy in Sparks didn’t make it socially acceptable again, either.

  85. 85
    bin Lurkin' says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    Which has gotten so lost in clouds of pepper spray that I’ve read nothing about it previously here in the Midwest- or in the geographically unimpeded prog-o-sphere.

    I’ve known about a total west coast port shutdown for at least a couple of days, Dec 12 I think is the date.

  86. 86
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    I have to laugh lately because every time I see an ABL post I know that an AL post will be following shortly.

    Carry on. :)

  87. 87
    bin Lurkin' says:

    From the BJ Lexicon:

    Dean Scream, the- Also known as the “I Have a Scream” speech. 1). Dr. Howard Dean’s enthusiastic bellow during the 2004 Democratic primaries, over-amplified both literally and figuratively by a press apparatus bent on demonizing an outsider to the Village groupthink who was threatening to gain too much popular support. 2). Any minor technical or verbal gaffe run ad infinitum and ad nauseum by a compliant press apparatus in order to make a popular political figure appear a bug-eyed maniac when his or her ideas become more widely accepted than is comfortable to the status quo.

    Just let a “leader” of OWS stand up and watch the Dean Scream fade into pitiful insignificance as a veritable tsunami of technical and verbal gaffes are run on an infinite video loop.

    It’s sad that so many here on BJ don’t get the way the M$M works..

  88. 88
    Sal says:

    LOL

    The evictions all on the same day have no way to be connected.
    That Obama has zero control over his own economic team is meaningless now?

    Right?
    Are we to cheer blindly still?

  89. 89
    Professor says:

    @twx: You realise how stupid you look! You are now commenting under a pseudonym, and you are complaining about someone else. You see how stupid you seem. It is said; ‘It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are stupid, than to open it and confirm it’. I’m sorry to say that you are DUMB!’

  90. 90
    different-church-lady says:

    @Robert:

    I’ve seen Wolf’s article pop up on crafting boards, media boards, writing boards, movie boards, and gaming boards since it was published. Huge threads break out with people busting out their tinfoil hats and praying the reverse vampires don’t take their parents away. It’s not some tiny little thing as much as many would wish it was.

    Basically it’s not how much mainstream prominence it has. It’s more about the zombification of another lie. Zombie lies tend to take all the oxygen away from the important stuff. That’s why it’s dispiriting to see ‘our own side’ traffic in them.

  91. 91

    @bin Lurkin’:

    Again, new to me, and I’m privy to a lot of goings on through the (backstage) mailing list of the blog to which I sometimes post music selections- and we recently added a “sister” site dedicated to Occupy.

  92. 92
    Elie says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Amen.

    I like that — the “zombie lies” label… its.exactly.right.

  93. 93
    Elie says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Amen.

    I like that — the “zombie lies” label… its.exactly.right.

  94. 94
    MikeJ says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: ABL posted at 4:42, AL at almost 7:00. Two and a half hours should really be enough time to counter charges of bigfooting.

  95. 95
    El Cid says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: In fairness I have to remind myself from time to time of the two Naomi’s.

  96. 96
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sal:

    The evictions all on the same day have no way to be connected.

    The evictions have plenty of ways to be connected to each other, like the multiple conference calls between the mayors of the cities. What you’re lacking is a connection between the evictions and the federal government.

    Let’s drag out the Underpants Gnomes chart on this, shall we?

    1. City mayors want to be rid of Occupy protesters
    2. City mayors talk to each other about how to do it
    3. …
    4. Obama did it!

  97. 97
    different-church-lady says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    That OWS and it’s most vocal supporters have lost focus.

    I’m still splitting those into two different groups. It might be true the first group has lost focus. The second group I’m not sure ever had any to lose — they were opportunists from the beginning, using OWS like they use everything else, as a Rorschach blot that confirms their own pet topics.

    Or to put it more cynically: we’ve found the keyboard commandos of the left, and they are not typing from tents in public parks.

    PS: should have said I agree with the rest of your comment.

  98. 98
    eemom says:

    I find it annoying this site does not require its writers to use real names.

    I find it amazing that every time I think I’ve seen the stupidest, pettiest CONCEIVABLE gripe that some random drive-by idiot could possibly sling at us, I am proven wrong yet again.

  99. 99
    different-church-lady says:

    @Mnemosyne: Step three is, “It’s obvious that…”

  100. 100
    Elie says:

    @bin Lurkin’:

    I “get” not having a leader to pound into the dirt. What I don’t get is the lack of direction and purpose. I don’t need a Face or Faces…I would like this movement and the opportunity to influence our policy and conversation in a serious way, undistracted by the understandable but irrelevant complaint that some do not support their message and want to stop it.

    The message has been whittled down into having been hustled out of parks and tents and no longer about what most folks now accept — the need for economic justice and a change in the national direction. When folks like Naomi and her ilk start the next paragraph in OWS with conspiracy theories, I know the end is near for this particular “OWS” strategy…
    We have got to find ways to connect to them and them us without that

  101. 101
    Jeff from Cleveland Hts says:

    @El Cid:

    Wolf’s article was one of the top posts this week at Reddit:

    Reddit link

    Some BJ-er pushed back linking to ABL in the comments with mixed results.

  102. 102
    Slowbama says:

    Been away awhile. I see this site is still lousy with Obama apologists who view any criticism of the administration as a personal attack that must be answered with more personal attacks. It is never enough to disagree with a critic; you must discredit them as people.

    There can be no question that the mayoral evictions were coordinated and that media access, i.e. YOUR access, was compromised by not only local municipalities but Obama’s DHS as well. This in itself would be of concern to anyone not blindly inculcated with limitless faith in a particular political leader.

    Sorry, I’ll go with Naomi Wolf over ABL any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You don’t have to like it.

  103. 103

    @different-church-lady:

    Maybe I should clarify: OWS has lost (as if it ever had it) message control.

  104. 104

    @Slowbama:

    Don’t you find it odd that they didn’t coordinate anything with DC?

  105. 105
    Yutsano says:

    @Slowbama:

    There can be no question that the mayoral evictions were coordinated and that media access, i.e. YOUR access, was compromised by not only local municipalities but Obama’s DHS as well. This in itself would be of concern to anyone not blindly inculcated with limitless faith in a particular political leader.

    Just out of curiosity, what are you backing this assertion on?

  106. 106
    OzoneR says:

    This is why people hate OWS, because their message of “we need economic justice” is lost in their new message of “everyone’s trying to beat me up”

    Fighting cops and trying to present this image of “the man is trying to keep us down” is not going to get your message of economic injustice through.

    People like cops, they don’t like billionaires.

  107. 107
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Yutsano: Questionlessness, apparently.

  108. 108
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Mnemosyne: It’s the same kind of reasoning that the Bush administration used to assert that there were associations between Iraq and Al Qaeda. A questionable anecdote, some sleight-of-hand with words, and a sense that it’s the kind of thing the Nemesis Du Jour is totally likely to do.

  109. 109
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Yutsano:

    Based on Obama = Bush, of course. QED. Also, too.

  110. 110
    different-church-lady says:

    @Slowbama:

    Been away awhile. I see this site is still lousy with Obama apologists who view any criticism of the administration as a personal attack that must be answered with more personal attacks.

    This from a person who’s very handle is an insult to someone in particular?

  111. 111
    Jnc says:

    ABL wrote. “we are not under attack by our government”.

    The people who were pepper sprayed in the face and the people who were jabbed in the ribs with clubs might disagree with you.

    But you can go back to rattling on about how dishonest Naomi Wolf is now…

  112. 112
    karen marie says:

    @bourbaki: I am not understanding the point of shutting down ports. What do the occupiers hope to gain?

    Occupying seats at a lunch counter in order to force a change in the law to make segregation illegal I understand, but shutting down ports? Really?

    If people want to shut something down to force change, they might want to think about occupying Congress. Shutting those fuckheads down would be far more effective in bringing about change, IMO.

  113. 113
    different-church-lady says:

    @Jnc: OK, fine: we’re under attack from the UC Davis campus police. Happy now?

  114. 114
    different-church-lady says:

    @karen marie:

    If people want to shut something down to force change, they might want to think about occupying Congress K Street. Shutting those fuckheads down would be far more effective in bringing about change, IMO.

    Fixed that for you.

  115. 115
    shano says:

    Never knew about Wolf until all the hoopla about this article.. Jason Leopold has filed FOIA requests for information on these ‘meetings’ and ‘assistance’. We all know how the Military Industrial Complex has spread and entrenched itself in every state )in the name of jobs, of course) I would not like to see this happen with what is basically a Federal Military.

    We all hate the Patriot Act and what it has done to the nation. No one wants to see an expansion of a police state. It is interesting that some Mayors who were tolerant and helpful to the camps are now cracking down- both LA and Philly will be raided tonight.
    LA even went so far as to offer to home the homeless populations in the camp, offered to replace the community farmland the city sold in a crooked deal and office space. the offer was rescinded and now they have a crackdown tonight.

    There are other, more humane ways to deal with these encampments, but we have not seen any good solutions yet, just various city officials backing off from reasonableness and humane solutions. Deepak Chopra spoke at one and told them to keep setting up camps, move and find another space. He realises some of the good the camps do by brining to light the plight of homelessness and helping the hungry with food.
    Someone from NY just messaged today that OWS was given a 56 acre farm. These are solutions that should be explored, instead of spending millions and millions of dollars on riot police, Lrad, chemical weapons and storm troopers and helicopters. Next year policedepartments will have drones, according to the LA Times.

    Here is a good interview on what is next for the Occupy Movement.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGjgiDZvzZQ

    Yes, there are big plans for the Spring at OWS. It will be interesting.

  116. 116
    bourbaki says:

    @karen marie:

    I can’t speak for the occupiers (I’m only a sympathizer).

    So why don’t you read there website which I helpfully linked to in my earlier comment. You might also want to read up on some labor history. You could start here for instance.

  117. 117
    karen marie says:

    @Professor and @twx: Also, too, ABL’s real name is not a secret. I assume she continues posting here under ABL because this is a more informal setting than those where she gets paid for her writing and her actual name is published as the author, but her true identity is not hidden.

  118. 118
    shano says:

    different church lady: there is an Occupy DC encampment. Of course DC is used to protesting so it has not been in the news. the cops are not cracking down… They are going strong.

    There will be a big OWS action on DC in March 2012.

  119. 119
    General Stuck says:

    @Slowbama:

    Been away awhile. I see this site is still lousy with Obama apologists who view any criticism of the administration as a personal attack that must be answered with more personal attacks. It is never enough to disagree with a critic; you must discredit them as people.

    You see, this is why we know you are full of shit. Comes into a thread about possible federal instigation of violence against protestors, and the very first fucking sentence is a cry of butthurt for being thwarted, in the firebagger mind, of a rightful opportunity to bash President Barack Obama. Not about general police brutality, but based of a speculated link with a federal agency, with no evidence of such. But the first fucking thing out your mouth is whining about Obama, with Obama supporters spoiling the fun by questioning the veracity of yours and Wolf’s et al desires claims that Obama is to blame somehow, someway. thinly veiled wankery

  120. 120

    @Jnc:

    Right over your head, huh?

    The point is not that no one is being beaten, that no one is being pepper-sprayed- there’s no argument there- but that Wolf is claiming, with no proof, that the POTUS and the Congress of the United States are actively behind the violence.

  121. 121
    jon says:

    @Sal: Which “same day” are you referring to? Please choose one, so I can check. It seemed to me that the evictions may not even have been on the same week, but please tell me which day so I can check the facts with your allegation.

  122. 122
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @different-church-lady: UC Davis = state of California = US government = Obama = UN Security Council = United Federation of Planets. There’s no telling how deep and far-reaching the corruption may be!

  123. 123
    MikeJ says:

    @shano:

    there is an Occupy DC encampment. Of course DC is used to protesting so it has not been in the news

    There’s a group (no nukes?) in Lafayette Sq that’s been there since at least the 70s.

  124. 124
    Lysana says:

    @Slowbama:

    Sorry, I’ll go with Naomi Wolf over ABL any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You don’t have to like it.

    Well, at least you admit you’re a pro-Tea Party sympathizer and a boob instead of trying to go stealth about it.

  125. 125
    karen marie says:

    @Jnc: In fact, the people who are beaten up and pepper-sprayed are not being “attacked by our government,” they’re being attacked by police officers who work for specific police departments. The mayors are directing the officers to disrupt the protests but are you suggesting that the mayors in all of the cities where this has occurred specifically ordered the officers to do it?

    Seems kind of silly to believe that.

    I wish I had the link to a message board for a police department where the officers were bitching and moaning about the dirty stinking socialist hippies who don’t have the best interests of the police at heart. It was pretty scary and not unrepresentative, IMO, of how many police officers think.

    I’d like to see all the Occupy groups coordinate and occupy where it can really make a difference — Washington, DC. Shut. Congress. Down.

  126. 126
    shano says:

    MikeJ, wow I protested with a ‘No Nukes’ crowd in the ’70’s. freaky!

    My total protest experience- No Nukes, NO to starting the Iraq War and OWS.

  127. 127

    @MikeJ:

    THIS!

    How long before OWS encampments become regarded a s statuary?

    Dynamic tactics, peoples! Keep it fresh!

  128. 128
    shano says:

    I think this should be said too. The complete CONTEMPT of the ruling elites in the way they are handling these protests is evidence in itself. The authoritarians know they have all the power.
    The raid on Zuccotti was troubling in so many ways.

    Bloomberg disobeying a court order for most of the day so he could judge shop, the trashing of $250,000 worth of personal property, in violation of the NYPD rules for handling chattel (including twelve or so $8,000 bicycle chargers), the stifling of Freedom of the Press. Even leaving out the police brutality, this is all very troubling.

    The whole tactic is disgusting and a window into the wasteland of authoritarian America.

  129. 129
    Calming Influence says:

    Shit. All because of Naomi Wolf’s over-the-top conspiracy theories, OWS is just as doomed as… (oh, what were they called again? Oh yeah…) the Tea Party and the Republican Party. Remember way back when, they tried to prove that Obama was a Kenyan-born mooslim terrorist Manchurian Candidate. And when THE PEOPLE found out it wasn’t true, it sooo backfired on the phony conspiracy theorists that they quickly faded from memory.

    I’m all for speaking the truth, but let’s dial back the rhetoric on how damaging this is before it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

  130. 130
    General Stuck says:

    It’s no wonder why mayors and local officials are anxious about something they likely never dreamed of happening in their jurisdiction. People taking up residence in public spaces they are responsible for governing. And most big city mayors are democrats, I would think, since urban areas are usually dem country.

    And is likely why they are frantic in how to deal with the situation, and debating amongst themselves, with some federal advice on how to go about it. At once, not wanting to appear as anti American on citizen protests, but also fearing the perception of weakness and lack of control of these spaces, and therefore, in general, in political terms. And folks setting up permanent residence in large numbers without a lot of basic services, and therefore, raising the specter of unsanitary conditions leading to even worse fears of launching some kind of community borne illnesses. So they ask the feds what to do, and how to handle such a situation, and so far that is the only evidence of federal involvement on non federal lands. There are some fairly tight regs and thresholds for the fed government to get first hand involved with what is at most, crimes of trespass, or disorderly conduct. Misdemeanors and such. Call me when you have some evidence, until then, wank em if you got em.

  131. 131
    Hmmm says:

    I swear like fifty of my Facebook friends posted that damned Naomi Wolf article. Sooooo frustrating!

  132. 132
    shano says:

    karen marie…..You should join the Occupy DC action in March. I will try to be there, have to check my travel schedule, still too far off.

  133. 133
    OzoneR says:

    @shano: Troubling yes, new, no. Ever hear of Kent State? Ludlow Massacre?

  134. 134
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @OzoneR:

    Ever hear of Kent State? Ludlow Massacre?

    A long list could be made.

  135. 135
    Cap'n Magic says:

    Meanwhile, the Euro crisis is about to make our own market lock-up look like a walk in the park:

    The eurozone really has only days to avoid collapse: In virtually all the debates about the eurozone I have been engaged in, someone usually makes the point that it is only when things get bad enough, the politicians finally act – eurobond, debt monetisation, quantitative easing, whatever. I am not so sure. The argument ignores the problem of acute collective action. Last week, the crisis reached a new qualitative stage. With the spectacular flop of the German bond auction and the alarming rise in short-term rates in Spain and Italy, the government bond market across the eurozone has ceased to function. The banking sector, too, is broken. Important parts of the eurozone economy are cut off from credit. The eurozone is now subject to a run by global investors, and a quiet bank run among its citizens. This massive erosion of trust has also destroyed the main plank of the rescue strategy. The European Financial Stability Facility derives its firepower from the guarantees of its shareholders. As the crisis has spread to France, Belgium, the Netherlands and Austria, the EFSF itself is affected by the contagious spread of the disease. Unless something very drastic happens, the eurozone could break up very soon. Technically, one can solve the problem even now, but the options are becoming more limited. The eurozone needs to take three decisions very shortly, with very little potential for the usual fudges. First, the European Central Bank must agree a backstop of some kind…. The second measure is a firm timetable for a eurozone bond…. The third decision is a fiscal union. This would involve a partial loss of national sovereignty, and the creation of a credible institutional framework to deal with fiscal policy…. I am hearing that there are exploratory talks about a compromise package comprising those three elements. If the European summit could reach a deal on December 9, its next scheduled meeting, the eurozone will survive. If not, it risks a violent collapse. Even then, there is still a risk of a long recession, possibly a depression…. I cannot quite see how the German chancellor is going to extricate herself from these self-inflicted constraints…. I have yet to be convinced that the European Council is capable of reaching such a substantive agreement given its past record. Of course, it will agree on something and sell it as a comprehensive package. It always does. But the halt-life of these fake packages has been getting shorter. After the last summit, the financial markets’ enthusiasm over the ludicrous idea of a leveraged EFSF evaporated after less than 48 hours. Italy’s disastrous bond auction on Friday tells us time is running out. The eurozone has 10 days at most.

  136. 136

    @OzoneR:

    If I may, I’ll add Haymarket Square to the list. And maybe a stretch because no government was involved, but The Battle of the Overpass.

  137. 137
  138. 138

    The actually amazing part of the quoted Wolf passage is “directly, above King, to the president.” Wolf described the President as a superior of a member of congress. This is not a claim that Obama or someone sees things that way, but simply the assertion that the President is a rank above a representative. It’s as if she has never heard of the separation of powers. I mean the first lecture in junior high school civics.

    The quoted context quoted by ABL actually makes it even worse than my snippet. That alone is enough for Wolf to earn “ignore completely from now on” status.

  139. 139
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Robert Waldmann: not to mention that she thinks King would be coordinating ANYTHING with Obama.

  140. 140
    different-church-lady says:

    @karen marie: No, no, no, don’t be silly: it’s self evident that we’re being attacked by our government. The individual incidents are just proof of that.

    /ironic voice

    Really, to a manic progressive these kinds of things are just nit-picking.

  141. 141
    MikeJ says:

    @shano: Why is the sun up in Los Angeles and down here in Seattle?

  142. 142
    General Stuck says:

    @MikeJ:

    Why is the sun up in Los Angeles and down here in Seattle?

    Bigfoot

  143. 143
    different-church-lady says:

    @General Stuck: Which is not to say they’re not over-reacting, and is not to say that individuals working for them are not seriously over-reacting. To the point of clear brutality.

    However, I guess pointing out that at the same time we don’t exactly live in the kind of totally oppressive police state the Occupy Desk Chair pundits want us to believe means I’ve hopelessly got my tongue up someone’s excretion mechanism.

  144. 144
    shano says:

    MikeJ, dont know if this is pre recorded. The police? HS? have a new technology where they can black out all cell phone reception, which would mean the livestream shuts down too.

    That is another thing so troubling. The technology allows them to cut off all communication during these closings.

    They cut off all communication, shut the roads, trains and bridges in NYC, and reports from people there were that they used the Lrad to disperse the protesters after all avenues were cut off.

    No, the press should be there, and there should be cameras there at all times.

  145. 145
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: Do they shut off the mind control radio transmissions to your fillings too?

  146. 146
    shano says:

    look lady, this has been documented widely. the tech guys know it is true. your just being ridiculous now

  147. 147
    shano says:

    You simply cannot imagine AMERICA acting in this way so you have to deny it.

  148. 148

    @shano:

    MikeJ, dont know if this is pre recorded.

    Post-autumnal-equinox thing? I know LA is a bit east of Seattle, but it’s much further south. Should be more daylight in LA this time of year.

  149. 149
    Robert says:

    @different-church-lady: Agreed. The spread to sites I don’t normally see this kind of content on is just a symptom of this zombification. I like that descriptor. It’s just so perfect.

  150. 150
    General Stuck says:

    @different-church-lady:

    Which is not to say they’re not over-reacting, and is not to say that individuals working for them are not seriously over-reacting. To the point of clear brutality.

    Eternal Truth. Put cops and groups of hippies in the same space, and there will be blood. Doesn’t matter all that much what the suits want when they give the order. It’s nature for the police to over react to anarchy, or what they perceive as such. It is why cops exist in the first place, to manage or defeat various kinds of anarchy. Throw in some cultural and generational nuggets of contention, like drugs and pony tails, and you have predictable results.

  151. 151
    different-church-lady says:

    Sunset LA: 16:44
    Sunset Seattle: 16:22

    http://www.gaisma.com/en/

    The sun has been down for a couple of hours in both places.

    This isn’t rocket science, people.

  152. 152
  153. 153
    shano says:

    I am in AZ, so yes, it must be pre-recorded. I cant believe all you people missed the actual procedure the NYPD used to shut down Zuccotti.! Astonishing how ignorant people can be. It would be one thing to question it, but to dismiss it as tin foil hattery is simply stupid.

  154. 154
    agrippa says:

    Not that it matters.

    But, Wolf cannot prove anything.

  155. 155
    shano says:

    you all missed the group letter NYC journalists signed to Bloomberg?

  156. 156
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: We tell you shit about your own links and we’re the dumb ones?

    Look, I have no idea how old you are, but you’re using the logical defenses and language of someone rather immature.

  157. 157
    shano says:

    Occupy Philadelphia shut down will be covered by Tim Pool. He is an incredible young journalist, he kicked the MSM asses on Nov. 17th He is a few miles outside town right now:

    http://www.ustream.tv/theother99

    The deadline is midnight.

  158. 158
    different-church-lady says:

    @agrippa: But she doesn’t need to prove anything. Proving things is not in her interest. Getting people to believe things is her interest. They are not the same.

  159. 159
    shano says:

    look lady, I keeping up with livestreams is not an easy task. We have to rely on twitter streams most of the time.
    some info is stale.

  160. 160

    @shano:

    They cut off all communication, shut the roads, trains and bridges in NYC, and reports from people there were that they used the Lrad to disperse the protesters after all avenues were cut off.

    Communications- or at least computer, tv and radio feeds- I get, but I’m searching and getting nothing. Searching for anything about the roads, bridges, trains and tunnels, and still nothing. And I’m going to take a shot in the dark and predict I don’t find a single shred of hard news- or gripes from politically neutral New Yorkers- about the roads, bridges, etc. having been shut down by anything other than the protest marches.

  161. 161
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: I wasn’t talking about your understanding of livestreams. I was talking about your understanding of social interaction.

  162. 162
    shano says:

    You can use the google as well as I can, no doubt. Look up the letter to Bloomberg from journalists.
    I watched the whole shut down of Zuccotti that night. When communications went down, it was really, really bad. Because all the journalists were placed in a pen about 4 blocks from the park, out of sight.

    No one could get to the park because all the roads, the subways and the Brooklyn Bridge were CLOSED. That is a fact.

    You all are just lazy.

  163. 163
    Jenny says:

    I swear the firebaggers, PUMAs, and fellow travelers can fuck anything up.

    In their over-ridding desire to demonize Obama they manage to make OWS look like a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

    And it’s grossly unfair to OWS. They’re not one weaving the tin foil, it’s loony wannabees sitting at home in their costumes playing with themselves.

    It’s as if the 1% are paying them to discredit the demonstrators and alienate their supporters by making them look like laughable psychotics.

    The same thing happened with Bush and 9/11. Any legitimate questions into how the bushies ignored warnings where tainted by the kooks who kept insisting the building were brought down by goverment “coordination” (controlled demolitions).

  164. 164
    different-church-lady says:

    @Jenny:

    In their over-ridding desire to demonize Obama they manage to make OWS look like a bunch of conspiracy theorists.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I still tend to put up a mental firewall between most of OWS on the ground and the prattling ‘supporters’ we see on blogs like this one. They really strike me as quite different.

    Maybe some people are posting to Balloon Juice from tents. But I doubt it.

  165. 165
    shano says:

    This was the main complaint of the occupados. they were given 15 minutes to “get their stuff” but they were not told that once they left (with the first armfull of stuff) they were NOT allowed back in.

    this is why the library was a total loss, except for 20% or so of books that were rescued from the trash that were destroyed. The OWS librarians had a press conference:

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18701954

    This will explain what happened that night. You can ff to when the conference starts.

  166. 166
    OzoneR says:

    @different-church-lady: I think the treatment of the protesters and the journalists is reprehensible.

    But it’s not surprising, nor is it as bad as I’d expect. We all warned in September that this would be the likely reaction and I think many of us are surprised it didn’t happen sooner.

    That said, I felt, even when I was down at OWS in October, that the movement was being taken over by a group who had absolutely no interest in fighting for economic justice, Wall Street corruption, etc. Instead they were looking to hijack the movement so they can fight the police and feel like revolutionaries.

    And I got to say, I started to feel like some of the voices of the left, including The Nation and Wolf, either let them do it or were party to it.

    Now I think the message is lost.

  167. 167

    @shano:

    No one could get to the park because all the roads, the subways and the Brooklyn Bridge were CLOSED. That is a fact.

    How about the Manhattan Bridge? The Tri-Borough? The George Washington? The tunnels? There weren’t just closures in the neighborhood?

    You can use the google as well as I can, no doubt…You all are just lazy.

    Uhm, yeah, but YOU brought it up. You must have read about it on-line on some site or another. You say it’s a fact, you prove it.

  168. 168
    shano says:

    Jenny and Lady, you know nothing at all about me. You are as bad as Wolf here.

  169. 169
    shano says:

    Max, I just said WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED. And people dont seem to like the facts.

  170. 170
    shano says:

    Watch the OWS Press conference film.

  171. 171
    OzoneR says:

    @shano:

    No one could get to the park because all the roads, the subways and the Brooklyn Bridge were CLOSED.

    The bridge was closed due to construction, not because of the protests.

  172. 172
    different-church-lady says:

    @OzoneR:

    I think the treatment of the protesters and the journalists is reprehensible.

    Agreed. My point is that sane and honest people can acknowledge that reality without simultaneously claiming we live in a totalitarian police state.

    It would appear many people on the internet are interested in neither sanity nor honesty. These people also seem to believe they are the only hope this country has left.

    That said, I felt, even when I was down at OWS in October, that the movement was being taken over by a group who had absolutely no interest in fighting for economic justice, Wall Street corruption, etc. Instead they were looking to hijack the movement so they can fight the police and feel like revolutionaries.

    I would have to defer to your direct experience. Certainly for me there was a warning bell back when I saw a lot of people on DKos saying, “When are we going to have our Arab Spring?” Like they were jealous. I don’t doubt there’s a bunch of people like that mixed in. I do hope they’re not in positions of high influence.

  173. 173
  174. 174

    @shano:

    Well it’s a good Goddamned thing that they haven’t been given an international platform from which to blame you for the death of the Lindbergh Baby, because knowing the BalloonBaggers, they would, man, they would!

  175. 175
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: Nor you me, other than the fact that I’m lazy.

    So, uh, you know…

  176. 176
    suzanne says:

    ABL, thanks for all your awesome work on this. I sent a link to the first post you wrote on this to a friend of mine who had read Wolf’s story and posted it on her Facebook page. She was unaware that Wolf was fulla shit, and she was glad to find out. So, again, grazie.

  177. 177
    sherifffruitfly says:

    @Jenny:

    (shrug) It’s the ows-ers who cheerily allowed themselves to be co-opted by 1%-ers like Michael Moore.

    Sleep with dogs, wake up with fleas, and all that. Nobody to blame but themselves.

    GOOD THING THEY DON’T LET BLACK CIVIL RIGHTS HEROES SPEAK THO!!

    lulz

  178. 178
  179. 179
    Lojasmo says:

    As long as Obama is still hitler, and the gulags are in full swing, i’m chilly.

  180. 180
    shano says:

    the OWS movement is not coopted if famous people support it, or if people you find odious on Kos support it or if firebaggers support it.
    The movement is 3 months old!

    You all bask in past glories of Bill Clinton, who frankly, is the direct source of a lot of the misery we face today.
    And the farce of thinking electoral politics can solve these global problems when the system itself is corrupt beyond repair.

    So, please, by all means stay on the sidelines and heckle.

  181. 181
    Jewish Steel says:

    You all bask in past glories of Bill Clinton.

    Yeah, you baskers! What have you got to say for yourselves?

  182. 182

    @shano:

    So, please, by all means stay on the sidelines and heckle.

    Sure. And you know why? Because of reality-challenged folks who go around spouting shit like this:

    You all bask in past glories of Bill Clinton, who frankly, is the direct source of a lot of the misery we face today.

  183. 183
    shano says:

    sherriff, I did not agree with that shameful act in Atlanta, it was stupid. But they will find the way, I have no doubt about it. No movement composed of people is perfect.

    And Max, when there is a raid, and people are tweeting (information comes in really fast)’
    that the subways are shut down, the roads are closed and the Brooklyn bridge is closed. well, it does not really matter for what reason it is closed-just that people could not get to the park that night. NO one could….

  184. 184
    shano says:

    And the farce of thinking electoral politics can solve these global problems when the system itself is corrupt beyond repair.

    The system itself has to change. Or nothing will change.

  185. 185
    shano says:

    Livestream from Philly:

    http://www.ustream.tv/theother99

    broadcasting now

  186. 186
    Elie says:

    @jon:

    bingo.

    took place over more than a week on different days.. not that it matters..

    Zombie Lies eat the flesh of reason and rationality… they just keep going on the life blood of PUMA and other so called “progressives” conspiracy and betrayal fantasies…

  187. 187
    Dr. Squid says:

    @Slowbama:
    Well, she is white. Something about that makes her “important” even if she is a zombie-lyin’ hack.

  188. 188

    @shano: What is your prototype for the new system? This is a serious question. I agree with you on the face of your assertion, but I have yet to see a plausible solution other than representative democracy WITH an informed, aware and active populace. So, what is your suggestion for a replacement system. “we’d all love to see the plan…”

  189. 189

    @shano:

    …when there is a raid, and people are tweeting (information comes in really fast)

    Yeah, and those are called rumors. And when you report rumors as truth, your credibility is bound to be questioned…And the further removed from those rumors’ first flights that you are when you’re reporting them as fact- yet you have nothing to back them up as fact, even days later- the more credibility you lose, to the point where others are going to think you lazy, stupid, gullible, dishonest or any combination of those.

    I can easily imagine the roads in the neighborhood being closed- it isn’t like the Financial District is all that full of traffic latenight- as well as a subway stop or two. But the way you first put it here-

    No one could get to the park because all the roads, the subways and the Brooklyn Bridge were CLOSED. That is a fact.

    -makes it read as if Manhattan was shut down from the Battery up to the Harlem River.

  190. 190
    shano says:

    magurakurin:
    When we look at other big movements, I think people could rely on electing people who agreed with them and slowly enact change by legislation.

    When the system is so corrupted by monied interests, especially Multinational interests, maybe the only solution is a Constitutional Amendment to ban money from politics. A very difficult task.

    People have been protesting the banks, there are actions on BofA and WellsFargo. This is a huge task. No doubt. But the numbers have to be huge. the protests in the streets must be huge to get the real structural changes we need.

    Face it, all 3 branches of government are continually contaminated by the Corporate money in politics. Even if we managed to elect third party candidates, they would eventually be corrupted. Look at the few in office who are NOT corrupted by money. You can count them on one hand.

    I do not have an answer other than this. the task is enormous.

  191. 191
    shano says:

    Max, then you do not know how twitter works. You can get reliable sources on the stream. it depends on the integrity of who you choose to follow.

  192. 192
    Jnc says:

    @Jnc: In fact, the people who are beaten up and pepper-sprayed are not being “attacked by our government,” they’re being attacked by police officers who work for specific police departments

    Thanks for clearing that up.

  193. 193
    OzoneR says:

    @different-church-lady:

    I don’t doubt there’s a bunch of people like that mixed in. I do hope they’re not in positions of high influence.

    That’s pretty much a lot of whose down there now. The original OWS folks, many of them have moved on. In Brooklyn and Queens, there are Occupy meetings going on in community centers where they’re organizing for a wide variety of issues from immigrant rights to infrastructure development.

  194. 194
    shano says:

    Max, you know they asked all the reporters at Zuccotti during the raid if they had a NYPD press pass. those people who raised their hands were pushed off to a “Press pen” 4 blocks away.

    There were a few Zuccotti insiders who continued to stream until they shut down all communications in the park.

    http://www.aclu.org/free-speec.....g-zuccotti

  195. 195
    Elie says:

    @Jenny:

    It’s as if the 1% are paying them to discredit the demonstrators and alienate their supporters by making them look like laughable psychotics

    Hmmmm…..

    Naw! wink wink

  196. 196
    shano says:

    There are still OWS meetings taking place in Zuccotti. you can watch them live.

    The homeless people who are part of the movement were complaining they could not attend the General Assemblies because of the ‘no bags’ rule. So the GA found a storage place for them so they could attend once more.

    They also have a few indoor spaces in lower Manhattan.

    But as the ‘lady’ says, we dont want “that bunch of people’ to have “influence”.

  197. 197
    shano says:

    Jenny, Elie and Lady: if you have not participated in a GA you are just blowing hot air. #blowsalot

    Experience is the best teacher. I went to Zuccotti in October while on a business trip.

  198. 198
    shano says:

    And I participate in my local OWS group. YOU?

  199. 199
    shano says:

    Police now saying “NO eviction” tonight in Philly.

    So, good!

  200. 200
    William Hurley says:

    OWS = unBama.

    And no, Van Jones won’t get a new job in the White House for his efforts to insinuate himself into OWS. Of course, the job he wants has a limited, 13.5 month shelf-life.

  201. 201
    shano says:

    One of the founders of Occupy Wall Street:

    VLAD TEICHBERG: Well, my specific job was I was a derivatives trader. I was basically working for large banks, betting basically their money on these derivatives products. And my job was sort understanding how these products worked, really [inaudible] to the level of models, that used to price them, but also figuring out what models didn’t work and so on.

    For me, the philosophical transformation was the—basically the whole globalization philosophy that was being pushed in the early mid-’90s, that would ultimately be—ultimate equalizer of the world turned out to be faulty because of the effective Multinationals. Towards the late ’90s, I mean, I think a lot of people came to the same conclusion: globalization was actually doing more harm than good, and there was more inequality in the world. And by late—by late ’90s, it was very, very clear that that was the case.
    Watch the rest of the interview here:

    http://www.democracynow.org/20.....e_streamed
    I hope ‘lady’ “approves” of this person. But I am posting this to show the enormity of the task. The problem is Multinationals and it is a global problem.

    When capital can cross borders freely, while labor is captive it is a complete failure of Neo-liberalism. It is entrenched, as we saw recently with the 3 MORE ‘Neoliberal trade deals under Obama.

  202. 202
    MikeJ says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    Post-autumnal-equinox thing? I know LA is a bit east of Seattle, but it’s much further south. Should be more daylight in LA this time of year.

    Sunset in LA was at 4:44 today. In Seattle it was 4:21. My comment was at 5:57 PST.

  203. 203
    xian says:

    @Yutsano: There can be no question!

  204. 204
    shano says:

    The eviction of Occupy LA still seems to be scheduled. Cant find a livestream yet, but here is the blog stream: http://www.scpr.org/news/2011/.....live-blog/

    So far, police are saying they will “allow ample time for people to collect belongings” (unlike Zuccotti)

  205. 205
    shano says:

    Here is the livestream from LA, raid still planned for midnight, the GA is going on now. Nice that they have real mics and do not have to use the human mic:

    http://www.ustream.tv/channel/crossxbones

  206. 206

    Dear ABL,

    I love you.

    Sincerely,
    Parrotlover77

  207. 207
    shano says:

    1,200 people in LA discussing being arrested in non violent protest. The ones who decide to be arrested plan to wear name tags of people who should be arrested (Dick Cheney will be one tag)

  208. 208
    shano says:

    This is a tragic story:

    As cities around the country have swept Occupy Wall Street camps from their plazas and parks in recent weeks, a number of mayors and city officials have argued that by providing shelter to the homeless, the camps are endangering the public and even the homeless themselves.

    Yet in many of those cities, services for the homeless are severely underfunded. The cities have spent millions of dollars to police and evict the protesters, but they’ve been shutting down shelters and enacting laws to prohibit homeless from sleeping overnight in public.

    In Oakland, Atlanta, Denver and Portland, Ore., there are at least two homeless people for every open bed in the shelter system, according to the most recent data from the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development. In Salt Lake City, Utah, and Chapel Hill, N.C. — two other cities that have evicted protesters from their encampments — things are better but far from ideal. In Chapel Hill, according to the HUD study, there are 121 beds for 135 homeless people, and in Salt Lake City, 1,627 for 1,968.

  209. 209
    BrianM says:

    @OzoneR:

    I repeat, fruitlessly, that my experience with Occupy is that “everyone’s trying to beat me up” is not their message. They seem pretty focused on the original topics: oligarchy, institutional corruption, etc.

    You’d think that people suspicious of the MSM’s ability to report accurately would be skeptical of other second-order reporters too. But no.

  210. 210
    OzoneR says:

    @shano:

    Face it, all 3 branches of government are continually contaminated by the Corporate money in politics.

    Society is contaminated by money.

  211. 211
    OzoneR says:

    @BrianM:

    I repeat, fruitlessly, that my experience with Occupy is that “everyone’s trying to beat me up” is not their message. They seem pretty focused on the original topics: oligarchy, institutional corruption, etc.

    Which was true until last week, then the cops evicted them and people saw hippies getting beat up and complaining they’re getting beat up.

    That’s when the message was lost.

    That and this constant attempt to try to prove that there’s some giant government-wide conspiracy to destroy OWS is also ruining their message. That’s what screams “They’re all out to get us”

  212. 212
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: I see you’ve now moved to the “lay on so much bullshit so fast nobody can keep up with me” strategy.

    It’s really effective. Bill O’Reilly uses it all the time. The difference between you and Bill is that you probably have some good points mixed in with all the bullshit. But as long as you’re using the OCD model nobody’s going to bother sorting which from which.

    Try keeping it real instead of keeping it manic. Much more productive. Much more persuasive.

  213. 213
    different-church-lady says:

    @BrianM:

    I repeat, fruitlessly, that my experience with Occupy is that “everyone’s trying to beat me up” is not their message.

    The problem we have is not so much the MSM misreporting it, as it is people in this very thread claiming it.

  214. 214
    shano says:

    So the ‘lady’ is confident she knows everything and everyone who is involved with this massive OWS movement and, of course, staying a tasteful distance from the movement itself.

  215. 215
    different-church-lady says:

    The only massive movement is the one I see you… oh hell, forget it.

  216. 216
    Yutsano says:

    @different-church-lady: When it feels best after banging your head against a wall is when you stop.

  217. 217
    AxelFoley says:

    @Slowbama:

    Been away awhile.

    And you need to go back to wherever you were.

  218. 218
    AxelFoley says:

    @William Hurley:

    LOL, this douchebag still posts here?

  219. 219

    @shano:

    the only solution is a Constitutional Amendment to ban money from politics

    sounds like electoral politics to me. Occupy Wall Street really needs to consider becoming Occupy Voting Booths.

  220. 220
    Joey Maloney says:

    @karen marie:

    Shut. Congress. Down.

    I think the Republicans already have that covered.

  221. 221
    harlana says:

    decent people get handed monstrous orders and are forced to comply, and right now municipal police are being forced to comply with brutal orders from this corporate police consultancy, by economic pressure.

    look, I’m not defending Wolf here or her lack of evidence on this charge, but is it really completely out line to wonder if something more than local gov’t is involved? because I still don’t get the incredible militarized force of the crackdowns in large cities, I just don’t

    Disclaimer (please read before you attack):

    Does that mean I am accusing the DHS or the President of being involved? (b/c my above comment will get me blasted for perpetuating Wolf’s unfounded claims because I am speculating in the comments section of a blog)

    ((sigh))

    no.

    but I believe it is reasonable to question what the hell is going on when local gov’ts go over the top like this- i’d like to know what the hell is going on, maybe nothing, but i’d like an explanation, if there is one

    for fucking God’s sake, I lived through the Bush years – pardon me if I am still fucking traumatized by that shit

  222. 222
    kay says:

    I remember her from the 1990s, but I have to say, this doesn’t sound like a “civil libertarian” to me. (True) civil libertarians, in my experience anyway, are (basically) process freaks. What they want, what they insist on, is THE orderly, predictable process applied equally to everyone. Rigorous. Careful. Documented.
    I don’t know that not waiting for a response from the accused, as Wolf did here, fits with that mindset or, honestly, gut.
    She sounds like a prosecutor to me, and not even a good prosecutor, but sort of a hack. A “political” prosecutor, is the term used. I don’t think throwing around allegations fits with a person who relies on a process to sort the truth from fiction, and that’s what civil libertarians are and it’s also what journalists do.

  223. 223
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @harlana: I don’t understand what you think needs an explanation. The “militarization” of policing? Bad, obviously, but not exactly news, especially in light of the creation of the concept of “homeland security” and funding for local police to have heavy military-grade equipment. I’m not sure how anything is explained any better by speculating about “something more than local gov’t.” Local gov’t can certainly be awful enough, no?

  224. 224
    Robert says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    Just saying, the police did barricade off a perimeter around the park for the cleanup. Some traffic was rerouted to accommodate the barricade. It’s the type of thing that doesn’t get news coverage because streets are shut down and traffic rerouted all the time in NYC. A lot of the time it’s for construction. Other times it’s for big events like Obama visiting x building or Bloomberg giving a speech at y park.

    As for tweets, I seem to recall that there were tweets that night claiming the NYPD were hauling out sonic weaponry to force the protesters to step down. That weaponry turned out to be the speakers that sit in every police precinct for crowd control and megaphones. I don’t believe the hyperbolic Twitter feeds anymore than I believe a journalist who writes about how congress demanded the protests be shut down without a scrap of evidence.

  225. 225
    nogo postal says:

    Just came across this today…
    1. I agree that someone posting on the front page should use their name.
    2. Abl is entitled to his/her opinion as is the focus of his rant.
    3. If I were a betting man I would bet that ABL nor many of you supporting HIS/HER fact less rant..(Ok he/she did cite a quote from HLS that must be taken seriously)..have bothered to spend some time at their local Occupy. Mock the concept of Mic Check without ever been a part of it..
    4)Homeland Security vehicles were a common sight around Occupy Denver before they took it down in the same manner of other cities that week-end(I was there, saw them with their seal on the doors in plain sight)
    5)
    Right now this is being debated in the Senate..check out Sec 1031 of S. 1253, the National Defense Authorization Act. Hey abl..if ya want to rant..bone up on this and share your opinion..

    Occupy the 1st Amendment!

  226. 226
  227. 227
    shano says:

    Robert: so the police throwing in the trash the personal property of American citizens with a value of over $250,000 is called a “clean-up” now. gotcha.

    I watched Vlad Teichberg trying everything he could to keep on line that night the NYPD raided Zuccotti Park. The signal going in and out while he was waiting for the police to close in an arrest the people barracaded in the kitchen area, and then finally no signal at all.

    Anyone should be concerned about this incredible show of power.

    The cops trashed a huge set of industrial stainless steel kitchen equipment, all the laptops and other computer equipment looked like they had been destroyed by someone with a crowbar, not just the dumpster compactor. The books recovered smelled like piss for some unknown reason. It was a violation of the law to destroy all these things- This is going to cost Bloomberg and NYC taxpayers some cold hard cash.

  228. 228
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: Maybe you shouldn’t leave all that valuable shit lying around outside. [/sarcasm]

    Are you people for real at this point? Really, one has to hope there aren’t many more in OWS like you, because you’re gonna make the whole shooting match look like a bunch of nitwits attempting their best Jeffrey Goines imitations.

  229. 229
    shano says:

    When the police started destroying the tents on the perimeter of the park, there was one old woman shouting, over and over, “this is my home!”.
    It was the most gut wrenching cry I have ever heard.

    It was her home, and now she is homeless and on the streets alone once again I suspect. How anyone can condone this sort of authoritarian show of power and callousness is beyond my understanding.

  230. 230
    different-church-lady says:

    @nogo postal: Who even brought up mic check here?

    Please don’t tell me you’re yet another person who can’t tell the difference between slamming OSW and slamming something some nitwit writer said about it, and have decided to deal with that by being defensive about anything and everything to the point of making everyone involved look like a raving lunatic for the sake of raving. Because we got enough of those around here already.

  231. 231
    Churchlady says:

    What I find odd is that Naomi Wolf has been bashed repeatedly by pro-choice feminists for an article she wrote many years ago about the errors we made (perhaps) in not having women comfortably accept their moral choice to have an abortion. I’m not sure she deserved the bashing – lots to be said in favor of peaceful acceptance of one’s decisions – but she WAS thrown in the trash pit of feminist hell for this view. So I’m thinking this hysterical fervid screed she’s writing now is perhaps her ticket back into the Left? What she once did thoughtfully she now does frantically, groundlessly, stupidly, and with mindless pandering to a small group of who knows whom. Bad choice on HER part. And it doesn’t work with most of us.

  232. 232
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: Look, maybe you just need to start your own blog where you can be as stream-of-consciousness as you want. Because it’s obvious the idea of sticking to a topic just ain’t your bag.

  233. 233
    shano says:

    The destruction of the Zuccotti encampment reminded me of what the Israelis do to inconvenient Palestinian villages …the complete destruction, the contempt for the marginalized and utter disregard for humanity. They even had a bulldozer there for the ‘clean up’.

    The police broke their own rules for handling of personal effects and they should not be allowed to break the law in this way.

  234. 234
    shano says:

    Lady, are you the blog matron? If you do not like my posts, no one is forcing you to read them.
    Or at least give me a set of rules here.

    Sorry, but the Zuccotti raid is connected to this post. We are speaking about the show of force, what those forces were, how they were applied. And who applied them.

  235. 235
    different-church-lady says:

    @Churchlady: It does seem to be a choice too many on the left and the right eventually make.

    Part of the problem is that it works to a certain extent, in the same way spam works: the overwhelming vast majority of people reject it, but if you can get a handful to bite, the spammer has a workable business model. In the meantime everyone else in the world just wishes the spammer would go away.

    In the meantime the collateral damage is what we see right here: a bullshit article whips people with politics from the good side into such a defensive, paranoid frenzy that they start to damage the reputation of the whole movement. It’s a shame, and I hope to hell saner heads prevail.

  236. 236
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: You’re speaking about anything and everything. That’s the whole damn problem, and that’s the bit you seem willfully blind to.

    Your move: from your stock bag of rhetorical shifts here’s a few timeworn ones you might put your hands on: a) non-sequitor b) appeal to emotion c) flinging things at the wall d) cry of censorship

    I’m sure you’ve got some others too. In the meantime a movement tries to figure out what the next move is.

  237. 237
    shano says:

    d-c-lady- DO NOT READ

    http://readersupportednews.org.....lice-state

    Here is a very good link for everyone who is interested in why it hardly matters that these nebulous connections cannot be proven without a FOIA investigation.

    (except for dclady, of course, she thinks I am not proper for some reason- I do not post exactly the way she wants me to)

    Discussing the current state of affairs concerning authoritarian power in the US.

  238. 238
    different-church-lady says:

    @shano: Ahh, you went for options C and D, with a side helping of whining. Good for you!

    What a shame about three people are currently paying attention to your grandstand, and two of them are annoyed. See you on the next thread.

  239. 239
    shano says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGjgiDZvzZQ

    dclady: “In the meantime a movement tries to figure out what the next move is.”

    Here is a link just for you.

  240. 240
    Will says:

    @El Cid:

    Was Wolf’s writing on this matter high profile? I didn’t actually see it that much.

    I saw it being re-posted all over Facebook by people who should know better. It’s being taken at face value by a lot of lefties.

  241. 241
    different-church-lady says:

    Discussing the current state of affairs concerning authoritarian power in the US.

    I thought OWS was about financial power in the US.

    Anyone else see what just happened there?

  242. 242
    shano says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ture=share

    Authoritarian power is protecting financial power. You must have missed the 4.6 million dollars Wall Street gave to the NYPD the end of October.

    A bit of OWS humor at the link. Humorless people should not watch, of course.

  243. 243
    someofparts says:

    Started to read her piece because I scanned Naomi Wolf and my sad old brain thought Naomi Klein. Then I looked again and realized it was bubble head Naomi, not cooler-than-cheese-grits Naomi, so didn’t waste time reading it.

  244. 244
    karen marie says:

    @bourbaki: If I have to go to a labor history site to learn why they’re occupying ports in 2011, my sense that it’s not the most effective tack is only heightened.

    @shano: I would love to join you. Unfortunately, I am homeless in a week and will be making a 2800 mile drive with my few remaining possessions, my cat and my dog, and hope my relatives won’t turn me away.

  245. 245
    Junior says:

    We don’t live in a Teabilly Fox-infected world that thrives on fear of the unknown boogeyman hiding in the closet. We don’t live in a world where “journalists” spew bullshit designed to manipulate and play upon the fears of their readers. We don’t live in a world where “Well, I wouldn’t be surprised if Naomi Wolf’s made-up claims are true” constitutes critical thinking.

    And if I’m wrong—if we do live in a world fraught with feverished paranoia? If this is what progressivism and liberalism has become, then we’re fucked. If we cannot rely on progressive and liberal journalists and bloggers to tell the truth and do their jobs, then we’re no better than the wingnuts.

    Ummm. In case you haven’t noticed, Progressivism went that route a couple decades ago, and perfected it long before Fox News became a hit as the only large media counterbalance.

  246. 246
    OzoneR says:

    @shano:

    The destruction of the Zuccotti encampment reminded me of what the Israelis do to inconvenient Palestinian villages …the complete destruction, the contempt for the marginalized and utter disregard for humanity. They even had a bulldozer there for the ‘clean up’.

    then you understand why you lost the American people.

  247. 247
    shano says:

    Ozone: ah , yes, I was a bit timid about posting that knowing how much drama comes with any statement or criticism concerning real actions by the state of Israel. How about I compare it to the destruction of any of the Native American villages along Sand Creek? Still lost now, are you?

    Besides I challenge that presumption. Sure, OWS has lost favor among people who have a daily diet of Main Stream media. If you think about it, why would Corporate Media, who live off the leavings and advertising dollars of Multinational Corporations, want to show OWS in anything like a fair or favorable light? They have no financial incentive to do so, and every financial incentive to smear OWS in any way possible.
    When you fill your mind with that sort of Corporate subterfuge, you are not free. If you do not think the 1% have contempt for all of us you are wrong. It showed in the eviction of Zuccotti Park loud and clear.

    karen marie: sorry to hear about your misfortune. There are many people in your shoes who are living at OWS encampments. Some of them have children. Some are elderly. But at least they know they have a place to sleep, some safety and community and some good food during the day. Take care, good luck and stay well.

  248. 248
    shano says:

    Junior: If you think any of the Multinational Corporate media outlets are telling the truth about much of anything in the United States, you are a fool.

    Bread and circuses. thats how hollowed out the whole genre has become.

  249. 249
    Junior says:

    If you think any of the Multinational Corporate media outlets are telling the truth about much of anything in the United States, you are a fool.

    You mean outfits like The New York Times? (GE)

    MSNBC? (GE)

    NBC-Universal? (GE)

    ABC? (Disney)

    CNN? (Time Warner)

    No, I rarely believe anything they say, and actually spend a fair amount of time researching what the don’t say or cover – what they ignore or downplay is usually even more enlightening than what they actually print or broadcast.

    And if you generally spend your time only watching/reading what the above listed companies covered about OWS, then you are sadly uninformed about what was actually going on there.

  250. 250
    shano says:

    Here is exactly what the 1% think of everyone else with utter and complete contempt:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded

    .

  251. 251
    John says:

    I hope that such an uproar happens when a good piece is published as well. Neither ABL’s will not win a Pulitzer prize, either.

  252. 252
    Nada1 says:

    Perhaps one day this author will write a something that gets as much attention as the Naomi Wolf article

  253. 253
    Pongo says:

    Naomi Wolf ‘stands by her contentions’ http://www.guardian.co.uk/comm.....naomi-wolf, apparently still unable to distinguish between contentions and actual evidence.

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