This afternoon not only did a fourth woman come forward to accuse Herman Cain of sexual harassment, not only did she hold a public press conference with her lawyer Gloria Allred, but the accusations themselves really were nothing short of sexual assault.
Sharon Bialek alleged at a news conference today that Herman Cain reached under her skirt in 1997 as she sought help in finding a job.
The Chicago-area mother, who is described as a Republican, urged the GOP presidential candidate to “come clean” and admit how he was “inappropriate” with her and other women.
Bialek’s story was immediately denied by the Cain campaign, which sent out a news release as the woman spoke publicly at a New York City news conference with her lawyer, noted defense attorney Gloria Allred, by her side. The stories of three other women have been reported by Politico and the Associated Press.
Oh, it gets worse.
Bialek described an incident in July 1997 where she and Cain were in a car and her offered to show her the trade group’s headquarters.
“Instead of going into the offices, he suddenly reached over and … put his hand on my leg, under my skirt toward my genitals,” Bialek said.
“He also pushed my head toward his crotch,” she said.
Bialek replied that she was married had a boyfriend when Cain allegedly did this, his response was “You want a job, right?”
And if the unremittingly awful context of “You want a job, right?” doesn’t sum up the entire Republican Party over the last several years, then I don’t know what else could. Cain’s stated policies are disgusting as it is, but this pretty much seals the deal. Big gorram line between sexual harassment (which is never okay) and sexual assault, and Herman Cain just sailed over it.
Oh, and if that’s not enough to make you try to dent your monitor in with your fist, El Rushbo’s response to the presser will do it.
The Moar You Know
White and blonde. Hope he’s sold all the books he wanted to, because he is done.
Yutsano
I see the endless persecution of a Great American Patriot continues…
/wingnut
jayackroyd
Not trying to be difficult, but this helps Newt. Right? The consensual version of Cain? Or we hope, at least.
Ripley
Ginni Thomas, WE NEED YOU!
JPL
Yesterday I figured he would weather the storm, not now. He’s done.
This is good news for Coach Joe.
Zifnab
Picture of Herman Cain’s smiling face with that quote right next to it? Fits nicely on a bumper sticker.
Peej01
Rush is a pig
sukabi
@Peej01: didn’t take his comments today to figure that out…
Steve
Finally a candidate who cares about helping people get jobs.
debit
@Steve: Hand jobs, anyway.
Judas Escargot
…and they said that romance was dead.
Ick.
JGabriel
Zandar @ Top:
Correction: Bialek told Cain that she had a boyfriend, not that she was married. (I watched the conference.)
.
David Koch
Well I can’t blame Herman, that Sharon Bialek is a piece of ass.
jrg
I’ve been reading the CNN comment boards. Good lord, the rubes are falling all over themselves trying to blame this on Obama. It’s like Palin 2.0.
I really, really don’t understand Republicans. If you had told me about a decade ago that half the country was this fucking stupid, there’s no way I would have believed you.
Ocotillo
Look, I have no sympathy for Cain but don’t you think it would take more than this to sink him? At this point, we have a “he said/she said” and people will choose who they believe primarily on their political idealogy.
dmsilev
Ouch.
Baud
The fact that Herman Cain did these awful things just proves that Obama has done much worse, because our blacks are better then their blacks.
/wingnut
David Koch
Another racist hit job by the liberal media.
Zandar
@JGabriel:
Fixed, thanks!
dmsilev
@jayackroyd:
No, no, this is excellent news for John McCain.
(sorry. Someone had to say it).
More seriously, it suggests that there will indeed soon be a job opening for the position of Not-Romney, a post which apparently carries all the longevity and job security of drummer for Spinal Tap.
srv
But what kind of countertops does she have?
cathyx
If there are no witnesses, will it hold up?
Culture of Truth
Cain’s people were the ones saying it was unfair that he couldn’t respond to unspecific allegations. I hope they’re happy.
SRW1
Did Rush pleasure himself while doing that pronounciation thing?
JGabriel
Zandar @ Top:
Not just a Republican, a Tea Partier too — at least, Bialek claimed the last time she saw Cain was at a Tea Party gathering a few months ago. So it’s probably a safe assumption.
.
Stooleo
High tech lynching here we come.
JGabriel
@Zandar: Cool, you’re welcome.
.
Culture of Truth
He was just kidding! Sheesh!
C. Isaac
With polls showing that Republicans are doing their best to stick their fingers in their ears and go ‘lalalalalalala, CAN’T HEAR YOU’ in regards to this, even if he makes it to the general election, Cain is done.
All anyone would have to do is just show a picture of Bialek with ‘You want a job, right?’ and then go on about how this is the only Republican job plan out there and they’re cooked.
Judas Escargot
Is the GOP debate tomorrow, or Wednesday?
Either way… wonder if Cain will show.
John X.
@jrg: Welcome to the wonderful world of the internet. We know a lot of terrifying things about our neighbors, now that the reality isn’t filtered through the mass media homogenizing machine.
GregB
A pizza in every oven and a blowjob in every car.
Cain 2012.
gbear
You should publish the entire quote by Cain’s spokesman (the NYT has it but I don’t want to be cutting, pasting, and linking right now). At the end he starts bragging up Cain’s 9-9-9 plan and foreign policy experience. Totally over the top. I’m kind of with Rachel Maddow right now in thinking that Cain’s campaign is nothing but a performance.
anonymoose
Herman Cain unveils Job’s plan.
Women run for the hills…
The Dangerman
Is it too late for Newt to change his name to “Notromney”? Notromney Gingrich kinda has a ring to it.
For all who say Cain is done, there will be Tea Party types contorting themselves into pretzels over this stuff; doesn’t matter a bit that she’s white and blonde (perhaps pretty, I didn’t see the presser). They’ll eventually toss him overboard, but it’s gonna take quite a long time.
Brachiator
@ Zandar:
No, it doesn’t. Not even close. Sexual harassment and sexual assault have nothing to do with political ideology.
So, let’s see. We have accusations from 1997. Charges were not filed then, and no charges filed now. And Attorney Allred made sure that there was a statement, with copies handed out, but no further discussion from her client.
And so the charges must be true. Because. Well, because.
I wouldn’t vote for Cain, but I haven’t seen so much nonsense since Balloon Juicers went absolutely nuts (and were totally wrong) over Dominique Strauss Kahn.
@The Moar You Know:
I am always amazed when people who claim not to be racist applaud what they hope will be a racist reaction on the part of others.
BGinCHI
Trump just put out this statement:
“Herman Cain can be proud of his record. If elected, President Cain will put his hand on the thigh of China and if they don’t stop manipulating their currency he’ll move it towards “the capital” and ask them, “You want our jobs, don’t you?””
trollhattan
@dmsilev:
Yep, they’re going through their next-best-things at a breathtaking pace. How long until the Draft Jan Brewer movement?
Also, too:
http://www.gocomics.com/candorville/2011/11/07
Napoleon
Check out Cain’s new campaign logo at the end:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2011/11/07/_you_want_a_job_don_t_you_.html
David Koch
Cain was simply test marketing his 69-69-69 plan.
slag
@dmsilev:
So, then, I guess this is a preview of the forthcoming job interview. I look forward to the Village learning about the law of averages.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Culture of Truth:
Yes, what man among us hasn’t tried to force his penis into a screaming woman’s mouth just to get her laugh? We guys can be such kidders.
vtr
Rush looks very old for a 14-year-old.
Culture of Truth
Too bad, Cain outperformed Gingrich in that debate.
Admiral_Komack
Hey now!
This proves Cain isn’t ABEL to be a liberal!
Liberals believe in handouts.
If it is a woman, Cain believes in hand-ups*
(*if the woman is wearing a dress; if she is wearing pants, Cain is ABEL to de-brief her) [SNARK].
Zandar
Hmm, took till 34 for that to happen. Slackers.
scav
@gbear: This?
Culture of Truth
Quite an accomplishment being the biggest asshole on stage when the only other person there is Newt Gingrich.
kindness
Damn. It wouldn’t matter if there was video footage of Cain molesting another woman while she protests the molestation. Folks like Rush will deny it or blame the victim.
That’s their whole schtick. They & people like them can do no wrong. Everyone else is the reason things fail. And don’t even try to reason with them or find reason in their blabbering.
Stick a fork in Cain, I think he’s done.
singfoom
You know, I know this is all enjoyable to feel the thrill of schadenfreude as we see a contender for the other tribe to self-immolate, but does it all even matter at this point?
Does anyone really think that anyone who supports Cain for the Republican primary will pay attention to these allegations or the payoffs of the other women at the NRA?
And even if you answer that question, how many fucks should be given?
We’re just validating the horse-race paradigm of mainstream reporting. And it sucks.
C. Isaac
I think they underestimate the American obsession with lurid tripe.
cleek
Cain’s only done if he or GOP primary voters say he is.
Mouse Tolliver
I hope Santorum gets to be the next Not-Romney, because when Karl Rove starts pulling the luggage-carrying rent boys out of his closet it’ll be hilarious.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Brachiator:
LOL Tell that to the press Mr Self Righteous. They just love to endlessly obsessed over pretty blonde haired women. Cain’s just steeped over the line into tabloid fodder.
ABL
@Zandar: winner.
i read the moar you know’s comment as a very descriptive statement of republican hypocrisy. no applause necessary and nothing racist about it.
JGabriel
(To be read in Barry White voice:) “Hey, baby … I’m Herman Cain … and I’ve got a … a job for you.”
.
The Other Bob
Gloria Allred? It can’t be true and she can’t be a tea partier.
Jennifer
Everyone seems to have overlooked one salient fact: sexual harrassment isn’t considered to be a deal-breaker for Republicans. IOKIYAR. In fact, the teabaggers will be more outraged at liberals and the “liberal media” for reporting on it than they will be over Cain’s outrageous behavoir. After all, he’s a rich guy, and that means he gets to do pretty much whatever he wants and if anyone complains about it, it’s like the Holocaust, so shut up, that’s why.
Villago Delenda Est
Let me guess, he once asked Angela Merkel for a blow job? Or, perhaps, he once asked Golda Meir for a blow job?
David Koch
She was just asking for it.
JD Rhoades
@dmsilev:
Quote of the day.
Spaghetti Lee
Rush can shit himself and die as far as I’m concerned. Man’s a fucking disgrace.
As for Cain, he wanted 15 minutes of fame and boy did he get it. I’m just rooting for the outcome to be as damaging to the Republican Party as possible. (Cain’s jilted fanboys spend months trying to bring down Romney and Perry? Newt as the new front-runner? Palin toying with getting back into it? Bring it the fuck on, boys.)
Chet
In point of fact, they weren’t wrong about DSK; there was overwhelming evidence that he raped the hotel maid. It’s just that such cases aren’t settled on evidence, but on prejudiced estimates of the credibility of the victim and attacker, and the DA’s correctly anticipated that a jury wouldn’t find her accusation credible, no matter how much physical evidence confirmed her story and contradicted hers.
Men have evaded rape charges even after being caught on tape raping the victim, so its hardly a surprise. DSK got away with rape the same way men usually do – he raped someone with almost no influence or power.
Loneoak
It will be interesting to see if the wingnuts decide to savage one of their own (she’s a Tea Partier) or if they buy it. Will Michelle Malkin lurk outside her windows looking for evidence that she eats Pad Thai on Wednesdays or once waited in line to see Harry Potter?
JGabriel
@Jennifer:
B-b-b-but, the accuser is a teabagger!
Teabagger cognitive dissonance ka-boom!
.
scav
@singfoom: Horse race? Is this a horse race? I thought I’d wandered onto the latest really really low-budget reality show.
Ah well, if we’re to go over a cliff, I want it to be in a really noisy clown car with confetti, glitter and abandoned knickers streaming out behind.
JGabriel
@singfoom:
If my mocking constitutes validation, then the mainstream is stooping pretty fucking low to conquer.
.
Brachiator
@Enhanced Voting Techniques:
Thank you for making my point.
Villago Delenda Est
@cleek:
That may be true. Not a single vote of any type that counts has been cast yet.
But it amazes me how wingtards, who were so bent out of shape over Clinton’s consensual relationship with Monica Lewinski are so blase about Cain’s alleged actions.
With a white blonde, no less.
Oh, the contortions should be absolutely Olympic class on this one.
Spaghetti Lee
Wait a minute, this woman said the word ‘genitals!’ Like, in public and everything! Clearly, evidence of liberal sexual depravity and decadence. Surely you don’t expect the great Herman Cain to resist such licentiousness?
Loneoak
@Chet:
THIS. I was just about to write something very similar, but you nailed it. DSK isn’t being prosecuted because the prosecutors decided they couldn’t beat his lawyers’ attempts to destroy her credibility through prejudicing the jury against her past, NOT because there is no good evidence that he raped her. I mean, how fracking naive do you have to believe to think that an immigrant maid plotted to give a French politician a blow job and then get him prosecuted for rape? As opposed to the exceedingly common story of a powerful man using his social position to coerce sex from a woman in a lesser position?
ajr22
Cain 2012: You want a job right?
Spaghetti Lee
@JGabriel:
Sorry, but you need cognition in order to have cognitive dissonance. They’ve thrown out lifelong republican politicians as “not real conservatives”, so they’ll have no problem doing it to some random chick who sullied the name of Cain. I just hope she lives in a 3rd-story apartment or something so Malkin’s goon squad has a tougher time peering through the windows.
David Koch
A photograph of Cain grabbing women in a different incident is now on Twitter: http://tinyurl.com/7yhmoxp
Rome Again
@David Koch:
Whereas you’re a WHOLE ass!
gbear
@scav: Yep. I started laughing when I read that. Unreal.
JGabriel
Villago Delenda Est:
I can predict the specific contortion they will resort to right now: “A come-stained dress or it didn’t happen.”
.
Culture of Truth
This definitely proves Rick Perry owes the American people an apology.
AnotherBruce
@vtr:
Well to be fair he has to communicate with his audience on their level.
trollhattan
@Spaghetti Lee:
Spot on. He never wanted the nomination any more than snowflake Barbie, and only when in spite of himself he became a “front runner” did he even bother to pull together something resembling an organization. Mostly, visions of a tenfold increase of paying workshop attendees have been dancing in Hermie’s head.
This, however, is disproof that the only bad publicity is no publicity.
Spaghetti Lee
@JGabriel:
Maybe we can get the Andrew Breitbart Penis Patrol on the case. It’s been a few months since Anthony Weiner, and I’m sure they’re just aching for another job.
scav
@gbear: It does have the faint whiff of putting on your yellow duckie water wings and jumping in just above Niagara.
JGabriel
Cain Campaign via scav:
“… he assaults them with them with his big fucking dick.”
.
Bill E Pilgrim
@JGabriel:
There were zwei wing nuts sitting on der straße. One of them was assaulted.
Brian R.
Fixed it for you. If only we could fix him too.
trollhattan
Meanwhile, Crazy Eyes tries to help out Mittens.
http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/michele-bachmann-suggests-mitt-romney-is-frugal-socialist.php?ref=fpb
Is a “frugal socialist” anything like a “compassionate conservative”?
dave
I’m no supporter of Herman Cain but I have a hard time taking seriously the claims of anyone who hires Gloria Allred.
JD Rhoades
@Villago Delenda Est:
Not only that, they’ll still bring up how bent out of shape we should have been about Clinton as proof that it’s no big deal that Cain committed sexual battery.
Wingnut logic: It’s okay for a Republican to do something because a Democrat once did something not nearly as bad. But what the Democrat did is still THE WORST THING IN THE WORLD.
singfoom
@scav: @JGabriel:
I might be wrong in calling this a horse race, or that your/our/whomevers mockey is validating said horse race, I guess I’m just tired of bullshit stories taking up the oxygen of news in this country.
Regardless, I am guilty as charged of the comment as validation, since I’m commenting on the POS news that we’re discussing.
I guess I’m just more concentrated on bigger issues. I’ll just be quiet now.
Cheers.
feebog
@ Brachiator:
Still flogging it I see. When I used to teach classes on sexual harassment, I told the women there were two kinds of guys when it came to sexual harassment; the ones that don’t get it, and the ones that don’t get it but understand they don’t get it.
You fall into the former category. You don’t get it. Here are some questions you might want to ask yourself; Exactly who was this woman supposed to file charges with? The local police? Don’t make me laugh. The NRA? Cain was the Executive Director, don’t make me laugh until my sides split. What does this woman have to gain by coming out now? She is a conservative Republican by her account. She is opening herself up to public scrutiny and the ugliness of comments by scumbags like Rush Limbaugh.
How many women are going to have to come forward before you understand and admit that this guy is a serial harasser? Six? Ten? Just how many?
Larryb
@John X.:
Like with FOX news on the job? Funny.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Another Jackson verdict comin right up.
Citizen_X
You mean, it makes him the Rethug nominee, right?
Rome Again
@Jennifer:
Interesting… so what you’re saying is famous sports directors/coaches for large universities get to bugger 10 year old boys if they so choose because they’re rich and famous? So, then, how many righties do you think would volunteer their kid for that position?
Bethanyanne
@Zifnab: Ask, and twitter delivers: yfrog.com/h3k5kytj
Bethanyanne
@Zifnab: Ask, and twitter delivers: yfrog.com/h3k5kytj
Brachiator
@Chet: RE: I wouldn’t vote for Cain, but I haven’t seen so much nonsense since Balloon Juicers went absolutely nuts (and were totally wrong) over Dominique Strauss Kahn.
You’re just making shit up.
Here you just didn’t follow the story. DSK was a gross human being with gross sexual appetites. But many of the women he dealt with, including some who freely admitted to consensual relationships with him that had clear elements of sadomasochism, were from his same social class.
The bullshit that DSK only assaulted those with no influence or power is one of the typically ignorant fables that Americans love to make up because they do not understand how brutish human desire can be.
And let me be clear for the sake of the dopes in the room that even some of the women who clearly had consensual relationships with DSK did not in any way, shape or form, think that his behavior would be or should be acceptable to most women.
trollhattan
@dave:
Ask Meg Whitman.
David Hunt
@Loneoak:
Anita Hill was a Republican and didn’t want to testify about Clarence Thomas. IIRC, She answered the questions of the (I think) the FBI who were vetting him for security clearance due to his nomination. She didn’t expect and certainly didn’t want to go before Congress. She’s been a punching bag of the right for twenty years anyway.
This woman actually came forward of her own accord. I expect she’ll wish “high tech lynching” is worst that said about her coming forward by the time the Rightwing Noise Machine is done with her.
Jay in Oregon
@JGabriel:
I was told that the Tea Party is bipartisan; why couldn’t it be one of those librul Democrat women? /ducking
scav
@singfoom: Equally tired of bullshit news media but my head got dented long ago and it wasn’t doing any good. Hence the clown car over the cliff with glitter. I’ll scream meaningfully after I get my blood pressure down but I can’t manage it all the time.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Guilty as charged
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@Brachiator: If someone tosses a coin four times and they all come up heads, I am going to ask to see the coin. Yes, he could have four women all trying to capitalize on his presidential run, but it is starting to get suspicious. It’s not like the other CEO has women coming out against him.
Citizen_X
@Brachiator:
Oh, for fuck’ s sake, Nanny. It’s spelled M-E-T-A-P-H-O-R.
slag
@Brachiator: Wow. Good to find someone here even more tedious than me! Y’know, this “Can’t we all just get along?” schtick can’t reasonably extend beyond the outer bounds of the liberal sphere without losing all credibility. Let the righties fend for themselves. They don’t need you.
Redshift
@Brachiator:
Factual error. Sexual harassment is a civil offense, not a criminal offense. A victim doesn’t file charges, they file a formal complaint, and possibly a lawsuit if that is not effective, against the employer. This did happen over Cain’s actions, and was taken seriously enough to result in sizeable settlements.
You can argue whether this is sufficient evidence to consider the accusations credible, but dismissing it as nothing is not realistic.
Rome Again
@JGabriel:
Whoops! Not anymore, if she ever was. Teabaggers are not self-proclaimed, they are only accepted if they perform up to par. The big tent doesn’t exist in Teabaggerville. She just lost her seat at that table.
SmallAxe
I’m with Maddow on this, with Cain’s post conference statement there is no way this isn’t a joke on us. That’s not doubling down that’s dropping an anvil on it and can’t possibly be from a real political consultant WTF. He is done.
RalfW
If the wingnuteratti continue to defend Cain, we can add a whole lot of women to the rapidly growing slice of America that already feels like the GOP is on Mars.
I gather that even Sully is noticing. He linked to Dahlia Lithwick’s piece:
Seems there are more than a few women out there who know that harassment has not ended, and that the GOP knee-jerk reaction of denying what anyone who’s not a white, male, land-owning job-creator claims is, well, disempowering and tends to make one decide not to voter GOP any more.
Good. ‘Bout damn time.
The Other Chuck
Whether or not he actually did it, it would appear that the Establishment GOP has finally decreed that Cain Must Go.
cleek
@JD Rhoades:
that’s the general trend i’m seeing on MSNBC.com’s threads. it’s all a liberal witchhunt! racist! libs are hypocrites because ClintonClintonClinton!
there’s a small point in all that about Clinton, though. the Lewinski affair was consensual. but the Paula Jones affair (allegedly) wasn’t, and Clinton was eventually sued for harassment. and in the end, Paula Jones got a big settlement – and no admission of guilt, as with Cain.
Jay in Oregon
You couldn’t pay me enough to read what that miserable excuse for a human being has to say about it.
It’d be nice if the fact that the woman is a Tea Partier caused him to have a stroke, but I know evil doesn’t work that way. She’ll be judged No True Scotsman and the flying monkeys will be inspecting her countertops by the end of the day.
WaterGirl
@Culture of Truth: They apparently never heard this phrase: “Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.”
Rome Again
@cleek:
For the primary that’s true, but I think his chances in the general are about nil.
cleek
@Rome Again:
which is fine with me !
go Herman!
West of the Cascades
@Chet: two additional points on this:
first, BJers are being entirely consistent in their reaction to both allegations of sexual assault — not giving Strauss-Kahn a free pass because he happens to be a Socialist;
second, there’s still a chance that Strauss-Kahn will be found civilly liable to Ms. Diallo — he’s moved to dismiss her civil suit on the grounds of diplomatic immunity (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/dominique-strauss-kahn-claims-important-sued-civil-court-case-filing-article-1.959189#ixzz1ZAVsNoQR) — so it’s ridiculous to say anyone was “totally wrong” about the accusations against Strauss-Kahn.
David Koch
@cleek: careful now, the PUMAs and Krugman will freak out if you muss their Bubba.
cursorial
@scav: Man has the clearest foreign policy vision I’ve ever seen. Totally uncluttered by history, geography, and the names of minor foreign countries.
I don’t know which is sadder, the sexual harassment itself, or that it takes a harassment charge to puncture the delusion that Herman Cain is even marginally qualified to be president.
cleek
@David Koch:
it ain’t on me; Bubba done mussed himself.
Spaghetti Lee
I’m going to be high on job/blowjob puns for the next couple days. How about “Obama is a job creator. Cain is a blowjob creator.” Or would that backfire?
Samara Morgan
Intrade.
Egilsson
Cain’s toast.
Since maybe Gingrich will now get his moment in the sun, isn’t this a good time to reprint that crazy Gingrich press-release after accounts of his profligate spending at Tiffany’s were reported:
That’s comedy gold.
Source:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/18/nbcs-david-gregory-defend_n_863660.html
Cain
@JGabriel:
Racist bastard, not all blacks have big dicks. Unless of course, you’ve seen it. Some indians have equally large ones, mensch!
Marc
@Brachiator:
I see what is now four independent accusations; ones serious enough that Cains employer had to negotiate (expensive) settlements with nondisclosure agreements. The fact there were NDAs means also that these women were not cashing in; they probably thought their cases were isolated incidents.
This looks pretty plausible to me; and the way that Cain is dealing with it (or not) is hardly helping him either.
(And I think DSK was innocent, and said so at the time.)
Also: Given the racial issues that the Republican primary electorate has, I think this will hurt Cain a *lot* more in Republican primaries than people here are realizing.
Lysana
@Brachiator: You didn’t follow the story. DSK attacked a hotel maid. He chased her down the hallway and tried to rip her stockings off. There was forensic evidence supporting assault, not consensual contact of a BDSM nature based on her testimony. You can go fuck yourself for apologizing for that son of a bitch.
JGabriel
TPM: Lawyer for one of Cain’s still unnamed accusers says Bialek’s story “corroborates” that of his client.
.
Mike Furlan
@Baud:
Herman Cain has done his duty for the Koch brothers. He has been working his way through a list of black stereotypes and acting them out to a national audience. This is not good for him of course, but it is also very bad for black folks in general, Obama in particular and the United States of America. The solution to all these problems of course will be to cut taxes.
Lysana
@Marc:
See my comments to Brachiator.
JGabriel
@Cain:
And not all big dicks are black. For instance, I’m white. Well, sort of greenish actually. I really need to get more sun.
.
BGinCHI
@Spaghetti Lee: This will get confusing when we get to the “maker” and “taker” part.
Jamey
He’s STILL the only GOP candidate with proven skills as a job-creator.
shortstop
@Brachiator: I didn’t follow the DSK case that closely, but now I’m not following you. Did you just trot out the old bit that because a powerful man had consensual relationships with women of his own social class, he didn’t “need to” rape women in powerless situations?
The Other Chuck
@Egilsson:
It was so much better when John Lithgow read it.
cleek
@JGabriel:
greenish? you don’t have an unexplainable urge to eat brains, by any chance, do you?
Punchy
All you self-righteous know-it-alls. How do you know it wasnt an accident? Maybe he was just trying to fix her bunched-up panties? Maybe he was looking for cancerous moles on her inner thigh? Maybe his dick accidently fell into her mouth? Happens all the time….
PeakVT
Ugh, sick of popcorn.
Why can’t all of these Republican freaks just disappear from the national stage until there are actual votes to be counted?
shortstop
@Egilsson: I never tire of reading that. Each time is like the first time.
shortstop
@cleek: Once you go zombie, you never go back. Er, so I’m told.
Martin
@Villago Delenda Est:
Ah, but Clinton’s acts were simply evidence of a deeper depravity. Cain’s will be will held up as evidence of his humanity and the impossibility for any normal male to operate within a legal structure that cuts against human nature. See, all of these harassment laws are merely a legally constructed Stasi, gathering random evidence against the 99% to be used later to prevent them from joining the 1%.
They’ll have no problem justifying both positions. Clinton was an corrupt insider, Cain an everyday man who is now being prevented from rising to a position of power.
Maus
@The Moar You Know:
Yes, but being accused of sexual assault means that they must protect him from the villains of liberality. Who cares if he’s guilty of the accusations?
Brachiator
@feebog:
You are a fool. Plain and simple.
I get the issue of sexual harassment. But I also get that charges and accusations are not the same thing as facts.
I reject simpleminded online courts of public opinion. This has nothing to do with what I might think about Cain or his behavior.
And pay attention to this: I have never in any post belittled or demeaned any of Cain’s accusers.
Good question, but not directly relevant to the truth or accuracy of the accusations. People, men and women, can be sincere and have a sense of grievance. This does not by itself make allegations true.
You say that you “used to teach classes on sexual harassment.” Did you presume that anyone who was accused was guilty? Did you really believe that accusation alone is the same thing as proof?
True story. I was recently on jury service. It was an assault case. Some of the witnesses to be called were police officers. One man admitted that as a retired law enforcement officer, he would be biased towards the police. A prospective female juror admitted that because the alleged victim was a woman, and because friends and family members had been victims of assault, she would automatically presume that the defendant was guilty.
Is this who you are? You claim that some people just don’t get sexual harassment. It seems to me that some people just don’t get the idea of justice.
Scott Supak
I’m just wondering who the 9th woman to come forward will be?
JGabriel
@cleek:
Damn. Outed. Bastid.
.
Martin
@shortstop:
No, I think that’s an accepted part of zombie canon. Certainly taken as more universally true than evolution. Let that sink in for a moment.
JWL
A Brit once said that they had a healthier perspective on their politicians (I paraphrase): “We just assume they’re ALL perverts”.
shortstop
@Scott Supak: Or the 999th.
One more, though, and I win a bet. The payoff: veggie tacos at De Posada on Taylor Street! Pull for me, peeps!
Maus
@Villago Delenda Est: Is it really “contortions” if you shut down entirely? They’ve developed advanced methods of avoiding cognitive dissonance.
trollhattan
@shortstop:
I think we can all agree: few Republicans dine on bwaaaaains.
scav
@PeakVT: Pellagra? Might possibly explain why JGabriel is greenish too.
Martin
@shortstop: There’ll be one more. Whether it’s true or not, someone sees an opportunity of some sort here.
JGabriel
@JWL:
Which, to be fair, is a pretty safe assumption in Britain.
.
Marc
@shortstop:
We really shouldn’t relitigate that case. But the letter from the prosecution was absolutely devastating: the accuser lied about numerous things, including matters absolutely central to the case. At minimum there was no way DSK could be convicted on the word of a compulsive liar. It really looked to me as if he was actually innocent, and possibly the mark of a political dirty trick – Clinton certainly had numerous baseless charges leveled at him, and DSK was a prominent target in France.
At the same time, the other cases that came to light from France made it extremely likely that he was guilty of numerous incidents of sexual harassment. But the latter doesn’t make the former true, and even bad people can sometimes get a bum rap.
gogol's wife
@The Other Chuck:
I was trying (and failing) to remember who did that. I knew it wasn’t Shatner, but couldn’t remember who. Thanks.
shortstop
@Martin: Well, I didn’t see the press conference today, so I don’t know how this individual came off. But when I first heard old Gloria was involved, I did wonder if this might be a ringer set up by Cain’s people. You know: if one’s not credible, they can say all the others aren’t, either. Then I realized that Mark Block would have had to be involved in such a setup, and I don’t think he can find his shoes without help.
JGabriel
@shortstop:
Well, certainly not before his first pack of the day.
.
cleek
surprisingly, a fair number of commenters on this Corner post are not happy about Cain, and would like him to dry up and blow away.
i guess those people aren’t getting calls from the pollsters.
shortstop
@Marc: As I thought was moderately obvious from my comment, I’m not trying to relitigate it. I have no idea if he was guilty or not, and don’t much care, honestly. I was only interested in Brachiator’s rather curious statement, which seemed to imply that because DSK was getting it consensually from women of his own social class, he wouldn’t be assaulting powerless women. If that’s what he was in fact saying, it’s a well-worn but quite laughable rape “defense.”
RossinDetroit
Could just be 11D chess. Maybe Cain came on to all those women to set a moral IED that would blow up if his ‘campaign’ ever got too serious. A way to bail out without looking like a quitter. Now he’s a martyr, which is a bonus. He never really wanted to be president. Maybe THIS is what he wanted.
shortstop
@JGabriel: Haw. You’re smokin’ yourself today!
In the humor department, that is. I wouldn’t want anyone to think that I was verbally pawing JGabriel in a hotel room or cab. I mean, I don’t even have any employment to offer him at my company.
David in NY
Bloomberg: “Cain Denies New Sexual Harassment Claims”
And Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
shortstop
@RossinDetroit: A moral IUD would have been more useful, from the looks of it.
The Other Chuck
@Brachiator:
Or they just want to get out of jury duty.
Martin
@shortstop: Things like this tend to not be either-or situations. I think we can take it as a given that Cain has done these things to some women – the settlements seem to support that. Once that becomes public, each additional accuser can go either way, though. It’s both easier for real victims, who were unwilling to come forward and try and make a case on their own to now come forward where some of that case has already been made, and also easier for non-victims to come forward and pretend to be victims because their claims are likely to be accepted without scrutiny by the media. The more people come forward, the more a circus this becomes, the easier it is to join in, and the less confidence you have in their story.
It says nothing about the validity of each individuals story, but is merely predictive that as something grows, the more likely it is to grow further whether it’s warranted or not.
Personally, I’m not biased for or against Allred. I’m not a fan of trial by media, but I’m also not going to pretend that courts aren’t biased against victims of the rich and powerful. If you let that problem go unaddressed, you’re going to get lawyers like Allred. She’s the symptom, not the disease.
Punchy
@RossinDetroit: I’m thinking more like an “oral IED”
Ben Cisco (mobile)
I have said for a while now that Cain’s candidacy is the greatest piece of political performance art of the century. Don’t know whether Maddow said it first or not, but she is right. Like many performers who don’t know when to get off the stage, Herman The Wormin’ could use Chuck Harris and a big ass gong right about now.
catclub
@trollhattan: Which has a longer shelf life, the Al Qaeda number three guy or the not quite frontrunner for the GOP?
Amir Khalid
@Egilsson:
I still wonder what Gingrich’s press guy was smoking when he wrote that. I can’t even imagine anyone putting it out while sober.
I do remember that said press guy was part of the mass high-level resignation from Newton G’s campaign org soon afterward — the quitters said they’d come to realize that the candidate wasn’t serious about his candidacy. So even if Sharon Bialek’s revelation brings down the Hermanator’s campaign, I don’t really expect to see the G step up to take his place.
Brachiator
@shortstop:
No.
When the DSK case was unfolding, there were long posts here declaring that DSK was obviously a rich man who preyed on women who were powerless, because that’s what depraved rich men do. Simpleminded stereotype.
DSK clearly was into brutish sex without regard to the social class of the woman. Brutish sex was his kink. This stuff was bound to get him into trouble.
Ironically, he may have been able to get along with his behavior for a time precisely because he typically picked women in his own social class, but the reasons for this may be beyond this thread.
And for the record, I could easily believe that DSK raped the maid. But I also understand all the elements that undermined the case. What I can or might believe is not the same thing as a provable case.
@Lysana:
Clearly, the prosecutors in New York disagree with you. Thank you for proving my point. And I do not apologize for DSK. I think he may be slimier than a lot of people realize.
I agree with you about plausibility. Plausibility is not the same thing as proof.
Idiot. I did not dismiss it as nothing.
Rome Again
@cleek:
Me too! :)
Face
I cannot wait to see what Ginni Thomas says about this.
I’m guessing something extraordinary.
Ben Cisco (mobile)
Also, FYWP. Should have read Chuck Barris.
GeneJockey
@Brachiator:
Hmmmm. Let’s look at this.
We have two women who filed formal complaints with the NRA back at the time, and received settlements in the neighborhood of a year’s salary each, plus signing an NDA. The NRA has acknowledged the complaints – including the nature of at least one complaint – and the settlements.
Neither one is coming forward presently, and neither one appears to be the source of the Politico article that broke the story. This makes it seem pretty unlikely that either of them is in it for the gold.
Another woman who didn’t file a complaint at the time says the same thing happened to her at the NRA during the same time period. She won’t come forward, so it seems pretty unlikely she’s in it for the gold.
A contemporary colleague confirms at least one of the stories, in the sense that he knew about it at the time. Politico has confirmed with other NRA employees and board members that the complaints were filed, and their nature.
Now a fourth woman comes forward with a story that pushes the accusation beyond what could be construed as a misunderstanding, or misinterpreted friendliness. To be fair, she hired Gloria Allred, so all bets are off WRT ‘in it for the gold’. However, the lawyer for the first woman confirms that this new complaint is very much like his client’s complaint.
Now, as a card-carrying Scientist, I can of course not declare that Cain is guilty, but I can state that the way this is playing out does not make a whole lot of sense unless he is.
Cluttered Mind
Even if this accusation turns out to be completely unprovable and a case of he-said, she-said, it should still hurt Cain. Paula Jones did immense damage to Clinton despite the lack of substantiation for her claims. Unfortunately, when it comes to accusations like this, Cokie’s Law is the only law. It’s “out there” now, and even if 2 days later it’s proven false, people will still be talking about it 3 years later as though it’s the absolute truth.
Oh, wait. Cain’s a Republican.
Never mind!
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
I wonder whether the GOP will hold this up as proof all African-Americans are perverts out to rape their wimmin or all women are back-stabbing liars who need to stay the hell out of the workplace.
SectarianSofa
@Brachiator:
You’re like a vigilante for true justice. Do you do this for cases where it isn’t an alleged sexual harassment or assault as well? Just seems a bit perplexing as a hobbyhorse.
blondie
Apparently, Republicans polled even after this latest revelation show Cain tied with Romney tied with Undecided at 21%.
Huh?
Could be that sexual harassment is okay for Republicans? Unless there is a gay tinge to it; then — career over, right Congressman Mark whatever his name is?
Is the Republican base really that upset that Romney is a Mormon? Or why don’t they like him? He tries really hard to say the things they like to hear.
SectarianSofa
@Brachiator:
“Fool” “idiot” etc..
Sounds like hearsay to me. I can’t really take your word for it. Sorry.
MazeDancer
Right Wingers don’t believe in sexual harassment. It’s like global warming, made up stuff by people who want money.
They don’t believe in women’s righst to control their own bodies. The right wing Christians believe women are here to serve men. And that it must be her fault if anything happened.
Unless four or five more women come forward with something more than he said/she said denial fodder, this will not matter to the Right. It’s another way they can say: We’re not liberals.
Steve
I’m just happy that our country has reached the point where a white woman can allege sexual harassment by a black man, and at least half the people disbelieve it. Progress!
Cluttered Mind
@Steve: Well, the black man in question is a Republican, that means he must be one of the “good” blacks who could never do such a thing, right?
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@Steve: Well played sir.
JGabriel
@singfoom:
Well, we’ve got a new thread above on the Eurozone’s potential for economic collapse, if that helps?
.
Marc
@SectarianSofa:
There is value in reminding people not to rush to judgement; sometimes accusations that initially looked compelling don’t look so great when we know more. I’d prefer to take Brachiator’s comments in that light given his (reasonable) history on the forums.
Brachiator
@SectarianSofa:
Actually, yes.
My mother, who was fairly radical in her day, recently reminded me that pursuit of justice is kinda the family business.
To quote James Bond, from Casino Royale:
Do I look like I give a damn?
@GeneJockey:
That’s pretty much it.
SectarianSofa
@Marc:
I’m fine with encouraging people not to rush to judgment. I don’t understand how you go from that to immediately calling people fools and idiots. Shouldn’t our open-mindedness be more generously applied?
Jenny
Tweety is a pisser.
He just said the latest charge of sexual harassment is clearly “black and white”.
Yup, it really is.
chrome agnomen
@Steve:
oh man!!! LOLOLOL
JGabriel
@Jenny:
Bahahaha!
Still, the man is right. A bit literal, but right.
.
jefft452
@Brachiator:
“Sexual harassment and sexual assault have nothing to do with political ideology.”
Like hell it don’t
Going back 1000’s of years, there have only been 2 ideologies:
One believes that people with out power have rights
The other believes in a natural aristocracy that can treat the rest as they see fit
From Pharaoh & slave, patrician & plebian, knight and serf, right on up to the 1% & the 99% – you either defend those who abuse those they have power over or you don’t – nothing else matters
Calouste
@Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen:
Or?
Aet
The one positive thing about all this is that we’ll finally get an example of which media concept is more powerful: IOKIYAR, or White Blonde Woman in Distress.
My bet is on IOKIYAR, because the white woman in question is not in her 20s, and thus will not serve as a surrogate collegiate daughter for the audience.
And I think he’s _not_ done. Anyone still a Republican at this point is fully in the echo chamber, there is literally nothing you can do _to_ _yourself_ to be removed from it (other than agree with liberals, of course). There might be some other ascendant star on the rise, but once someone gets in that top spot there is nothing they can do to be removed, only what others can do to replace them.
Brachiator
@SectarianSofa:
I clearly called people fools and idiots who asserted, despite anything that I wrote, that I must somehow either approve of sexual harassment or not take it seriously because I refuse to hop onto the Razing Cain bandwagon with sufficient zeal.
I know that this stuff kinda goes with the territory when it comes to blogs, but it is still bullcrap.
I also freely call people dopes who indulge in groupthink and other forms of collective stupidity (especially creationists).
And I favor open mindedness, but not being so open minded that your brains drop out.
amk
A white, blond, teabagger of a “lady” ?
‘herby’ boy is toast.
Mrs Gloria Cain, what are you waiting for ? Gloria Allred is right there. Serve the papers on this punk. Now.
SectarianSofa
@Brachiator:
Well, it’s the appearance we’re dealing with here, aren’t we? I think that was the objection that feebog, Lysana, etc. had with what you were saying. The words on the page, et al., only give one so much to work with. We’re all reading or trying to read trends or incomplete presentations of information or to warn against reading too much into them.
Cris (without an H)
Yes. Yes it could.
I’m okay with the strong likelihood of a Romney candidacy, just so the Republicans know how we felt when we were stuck with Kerry in 2004.
Svensker
@amk:
Oddly, given this is Republicans we’re talking about, I don’t think the fact that the accuser is white makes a damn bit of difference. The Teabaggers have claimed Cain as their own and as long as he’s “one of them” it doesn’t matter who she is or what color she is. She’s attacking their guy, ergo she is lying, being paid, out to hurt Realmurkans, etc. Tribalism trumps racism in this instance.
xian
@Zifnab: something like this?
gelfling545
@jrg:
Re: stupid After reading this
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/11/us_attorney_mailing_chicken_pox_lollipops_is_ill.php
think it’s even worse than I originally thought. I don’t think there’s any hope.
SectarianSofa
@Cris (without an H):
Sigh. Well said.
David Koch
Cain was only checking to see if the cuffs and collar matched.
Brachiator
@Marc:
Thank you for seeing the point I was trying to make, and for your kind words.
@SectarianSofa:
I’ve been posting here for a while, because I mainly like the people and the caliber of the discussion. If I thought that Cain was a lamb, or that his accusers were bad people or that sexual harassment was nothing, I could have written that. I never have. But it is an unfortunate thing that sometimes, people assume that if you don’t agree with them, then you must be a troll, a Republican, an arch conservative, or totally be against whatever it is that they think that they are for.
Shorter, even in more or less liberal blogs, some people insist on ideological tribalism.
Because it is always easier to insist that if you ain’t with us, then you must be against us. Wasn’t that Dubya’s credo?
And wasn’t it full of crap?
amk
@xian: nice catch.
Rome Again
I ventured into Freeperland to see what they are saying about this. They are in excuse making mode trying to find any way to force the narrative into this woman being an opportunist. In so doing, one poster stated it was virtually impossible for Cain to try to force a woman’s head into is crotch while he was sitting behind the wheel of a car. Later in that thread, someone chimes in and states it can be done because he has followed cars where people were performing “Roadhead”. Although I knew this type of activity exists, I didn’t know the name for it. I learned something new.
My question: WHY in HELL would anyone FOLLOW a car where someone is getting sexual gratification behind the wheel? LMAO!
Pamoya
@Brachiator: You seem to think that we need to find Cain guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before we can even say anything that implies we might believe the women accusing him. Never mind that the standard for a civil case would be much lower than that–we are also independent human beings, not judges or courts, and we can make up our minds based on what seems more likely true that not.
It’s like those criminals who tell the police “you don’t have me on video, so you can’t prove I did anything wrong.” No, actually, the testimony of witnesses is evidence. Here we have the statements from four women who have no reason to lie. I feel pretty confident saying that Cain has probably sexually harassed a woman. It is you who is “so open minded that your brains drop out” — by being so open-minded about the fact that he might be innocent that you are willing to ignore all the evidence that he is not.
gelfling545
@Brian R.: By “fixed” did you mean in the ..um..veterinary sense?
amk
@Brachiator: Didn’t that mofo’s association settle ? That’s proof enough.
And of course, dsk got away with his sexual crimes.
xian
@amk: catch?
Rome Again
@blondie:
They consider him a milquetoast moderate, a/k/a – a Liberal.
HyperIon
@Marc wrote:
innocent of what?
he recently admitted in the press that he did have sex with the maid.
feebog
@ Brachiator:
I guess you didn’t notice, this is a political blog. We are dealing in the court of public opinion, not in front of an EEOC Administrative Law Judge or a jury. Look, we are never going to know all the facts. But we do know that two women working for the NRA were given sizable settlements to make sexual harassment charges “go away”. We know that a third woman also accused Cain of sexual harassment. And now a fourth. Those are all by the way, facts. It is a fact that there are now four women who have come forward. None of these accusations are likely to be vetted any further than they already have been. The woman that came forward today made some very specific allegations. Cain has every opportunity to rebut them. The fact that he has changed his story about one of the settlements several times in itself is damaging to his credibility.
During my labor relations career I investigated many claims of sexual harassment for my agency. I also advocated accusations in administative hearings. I can think of very few instances where the accusations were totally without merit. This was especially true in cases involving managers and supervisors and lower level female employees.
So here is a true story for you. One case I did take to hearing involved a well respected line supervisor and a woman everyone in the plant considered a little nuts. I won the case, with a finding of no discrimination. Years later the supervisor was found guilty of child pornography and sex trafficing. Still don’t know if he was guilty of harassing the woman or not, but I have my doubts the supervisor was telling the truth.
Rome Again
@Svensker:
Funny, two days ago I predicted that if any of these women were caucasian it wouldn’t matter at all. I am not sure why they thought it would create such a problem. Conservatives are going to stand by their Cain.
amk
@Svensker:
I doubt that the racist teabggers are that loyal. Look at all their discarded icons just in the last two months – tundra twit, minnesota nutbag, texan cowboy – all roadkills now.
El Cid
@feebog: The public sphere versus criminal court, or otherwise, the court of individual reasoning.
Calouste
@amk:
He lost his job and didn’t get the next one (Presidential candidate) that he was favorite for. It’s what you call “getting away with”. Not that the man is poor (his wife is a heiress), but the affair has been pretty damaging for his career.
Jennifer
@Rome Again: Really, the fact that she’s white makes it a twofer for Cain supporters: since they don’t in the first place accept that there’s any such thing as sexual harrassment, when they exonerate a black man of harrassing a white woman, they get to also take on the “see this proves I’m not a racist” mantle.
jnfr
@Brachiator:
Just a brief disagreement with you over Zandar’s statement, which I thought was spot-on.
Jason
Much as I despise Cain, Gloria Allred’s long and sorry legal career pursuing such cases reveals her to be a professional victim manufacturer. I think it’s reasonable that anyone represented by Gloria Allred should be presumptively assumed to be untrustworthy. Especially given the conveneint timing of all this.
This is enjoyable payback for the right’s use of Kathleen Willey and Gennifer Flowers, but that doesn’t mean we have to believe our own propaganda. Unfortunately there is a shirts versus skins mentality in the blogosphere, and here we have a classic rush to judgement of the type we denounce in conservatives
MikeBoyScout
Really? No IOKIYAR tag?
Then again, you could blow Cole’s mind by adding a new tag; IOKIYAR,UYAB.
Say bye-bye Herman. You don’t need to be guilty of sexual assault against a white woman in the deep south. You were alone in a car with a white woman. That’s plenty as far as they are concerned.
Omnes Omnibus
@feebog: Another thought on this is that, if I were general counsel to a corporation that was considering hiring Cain as a CEO, I would have very strong reservations about him based on the history of sexual harassment settlements. I would probably advise that the Board look for someone with a cleaner record.
amk
@Calouste: yeah right. Losing the prezinential games because of my own dickish issues was punishment enough. Poor thing didn’t get to play in the rich boys circle, fuck those poor girls.
Suffern ACE
Is it too late at this point to bring out that 39.5′ pole that I recommended liberals use on the Cain charges? Guess so.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suffern ACE: Then you are saying Cain’s heart is full of gunk?
AxelFoley
Well…we KNEW at least one of the plaintiffs was gonna be white. And blonde at that.
Turn off the lights, the party’s o-vah!
White woman in distress? Oh, it’s so over for ol’ Hermy. He’s just lucky this isn’t the 1960s, or he’d find himself…let’s just say he’d get a view from a tree.
Speaking of the 60s, didn’t his pops tell him not to rock the boat?
Suffern ACE
@Jason: Kind of exactly. All we do in these situations is run a longer list of which side’s sex scandals are longer, more filthy and unjustly resolved. These are really long lists, and any moral victory only lasts until the next fool does this.
amk
@AxelFoley:
Mebbe, hermie is rebelling against his dad in his 60’s ?
harlana
I heard today that, in his book, Cain devoted an entire chapter to his wife. All 3 pages.
harlana
You know, all you have to do is look at the size of the settlements and public statements by witnesses to various incidences of harassment. You don’t really need a flesh and blood person to come forward and make statements about something that happened with no known witnesses.
In a way, it’s a distraction, especially with Allred. Aside from Bialek’s story, the evidence that Cain was pretty much a serial sexual harasser-dude was already damning.
Just as damning was/is his handling of this whole affair. With all that money, why couldn’t they hire somebody who could shut this guy up? Perhaps it’s all part of a plot to distract from Romney, some surreptitious Koch-ian scampery*. With a dash of Rove thrown in for good measure.
*And by this, I simply mean running Cain for the nom to begin with.
GeneJockey
AxelFoley
@Brachiator:
Dude, will STFU about DSK? Fuck him and fuck you for defending that POS.
cckids
@Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen:
Yes. If they are Democrats, that is.
Anne Laurie
@Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen:
I’m guessing both. After all, “You nevah heard this kinda crazy talk when Strom Thurmond was still in Congress! ! !”
Suffern ACE
@GeneJockey: Vince Foster was definitely dead, and what with all the other murders. Clinton definitely had sex with lots of women, but when those women started talking about the gun and drug running, what to do?
Sorry, but for the love of God, this is a republican sex scandal to take down an opponent in their race, brought to you by the same party who brought you the above. A little skepticism may be warranted.
SoINeedAName48
Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a pattern.
And FOUR moves it to the realm of a Class Action Lawsuit.
tkogrumpy
Just because Herman Cain’s “bimbo” problem is only a side show,doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy it.
GeneJockey
@Suffern ACE: \
Conspiracy theories are still theories*. They still make predictions that must be true in order for the theory to be valid.
I’d agree with your point if it were just this one woman making the complaint 14 years later. But that’s not the case, is it?
Again, in order for him to be innocent, two women would have had to lie in making similar complaints independently years before Herman Cain even thought of running for President, complaints which frightened the NRA enough to settle for a year’s salary a piece; two other women would have to be lying about their experiences, including one who ISN’T going public and thus stands to gain nothing; a coworker would have to lie in publicly corroborating the story of one of the complaintants; a number of former NRA employees and board members would have to have lied to Politico – all these people would have to be lying now, just to destroy Herman Cain’s chances, and two of them would have had to START lying 12 years ago.
On the other hand, for him to be guilty, it only requires that HE be lying.
* Here I am using ‘theory’ as laymen do, to mean ‘hypothesis’.
cleek
just FYI, the GOP base does not care about Cain’s sex problems.
xian
@Calouste: I hate that whole “he’s been punished enough” b.s. that passes for justice with the 1%.
jon
I see an opening for Bachmann here. She can bring up an instance where she was belittled for being a woman (and yes, it will involve Democratic Congressmen, so it can be okay to say that in a debate,) and then either kill Cain for such sexism and turn it into a Republican theme or see if the others want to join in and destroy him. But that won’t happen, because the others (Gingrich has his marriage issues and Perry has his racial issues and Romney wouldn’t have current polling data) won’t back her up. But she can go it alone and totally fuck Cain up, but does she have the ability? And is the GOP base going to be okay with that?
I so want to say that Cain is done, but these guys and gal aren’t up to coming up with a plan for lunch. I guess as a partisan Democrat I should be glad that their circus keeps adding more rings and the sideshow gets more and more desperate, but I’m haunted by the fact that one of them will be the nominee and will have a ton of support in a campaign to oust Obama.
xian
@Suffern ACE: Gloria Allred’s a Republican!?
Martin
@shortstop: And just as predicted, then there were five:
Go get those tacos!
(You realize that was a fairly inappropriate bet given the context)
Barry
@Brachiator: “I wouldn’t vote for Cain, but I haven’t seen so much nonsense since Balloon Juicers went absolutely nuts (and were totally wrong) over Dominique Strauss Kahn.”
You mean ‘totally right’.
Ben Cisco
@Zifnab: Ask and ye shall receive.
shortstop
@Martin: I honestly never thought of that…now you’ve ruined it all for me. All of it!
SectarianSofa
@A. Citizen:
I thought being wrong occasionally was a well-known feature of BJ argumentation. [Shrug]
Rome Again
If the allegations were untrue when the two women who got settlements went to the NRA, why settle? Seems to me they wouldn’t pull money out of their pockets if they thought nothing actually happened. Sounds like they knew these two women were telling the truth!
StarStorm
Pft, he’s a twit that occasionally shits on Zandar’s blog, I’m trying to figure out if he’s emogressive or a ratfucker.
Rome Again
@StarStorm:
Interesting term. I like it. :)
StarStorm
@Rome Again:
I didn’t come up with it. I think I heard it first from ABL.