The official White House response to a petition asking for the legalization of marijuana is up. Shorter Gil Kerlikowske: “Did you know that marijuana is addictive?” The one good thing about the response is the advocacy of drug courts and diversion into treatment rather than just throwing everyone in jail, even if treatment for the average pot smoker is like making someone who has a glass of wine every night attend AA meetings for a year.
While they’re at it, the White House explains why “under God” is staying in the Pledge of Allegiance. There are also a few other, better responses on the main petition page.
JGabriel
mistermix:
Christ, when are we gonna get a goddamned atheist in the White House? I’m sick of all this mystical religious shit in our pledges.
.
cleek
@JGabriel:
never. that’s when.
Davis X. Machina
Dope : left :: guns : right.
In one ear and out the other for 90% of all voters and 99% of swayables.
Keith
And the GOP response will be that Obama will ban coffee and cigarettes next.
boss bitch
I don’t care about any of these things.
amk
@Davis X. Machina:
FTW.
Legalization is the most important thing in the present status of most fucked up ? Really ? No wonder left is never taken seriously.
OzoneR
which happens more than you think.
boss bitch
@JGabriel:
What makes you think an atheist is going to do away with the “mythical religious shit in our pledges”?
arguingwithsignposts
Hey, I’d be happy with them keeping the mythical religious stuff if they could just get the “with liberty and justice for all” part right.
Xboxershorts
@amk:
One should consider the very significant fiscal and social costs of the war on drugs that targets, disproportionately, the marijuana user.
Kerlikowski is wrong on most points he raises. Marijuana is demonstrably NOT physically addictive.
The top researcher in regards to impact on the lungs of smoking marijuana has just come out in favor of legalization, saying specifically, there was no significant negative impact from moderate marijuana use.
As for cognitive impairment, there is not a single peer reviewed study indicating cognitive impairment goes beyond the 3-4 hour long effects of ingestion.
We KNOW we’re being lied to. We KNOW the war on drugs is a huge drain on society. We KNOW the Crime Control Establishment has a MASSIVE monetary stake in the issue. We KNOW the official government position contributes to escalating violence here and abroad. We KNOW that decriminalizing this has no effect on usage statistics within society.
What the fuck do you mean, now. By why “the left” isn’t taken seriously? Is it because we must fight both the lies of the established powers AND the apathetic derision of the brainless sheep who empower that fraudulent establishment?
When all you got is insults, then you got nothin!
And You sir, got nothin
Cris (without an H)
We’re not going to get legalization in our lifetimes. We need to keep fighting for it, though, for the next generation.
Think about the children!
amk
@Xboxershorts:
yeah, that’s what the voters are saying to the likes of you even in a blue state like CA. With that piss-poor typical sanctimonious lefty attitude, it’s no wonder.
Xboxershorts
@amk: What you call sanctimonious, is actually reality.
I’m sorry you don’t recognize it. The truth really does set you free. And at 52 years of age, I don’t need some punk telling me what I should or should not think, do, say or feel, in the face of overwhelming evidence of establishment fraud.
Your time has passed and your arrogance is a grating annoyance.
Samara Morgan
is there anything about the Pali statehood question?
because the general assembly vote is today, and the palis are expected to win.
MariedeGournay
@amk: Anything, anything, not to have that brand on you, aye?
amk
@Xboxershorts: Spoken like a true politically clueless lefty.
PurpleGirl
California has legalized marijuana for medical purposes. The use of pot for medical purposes can lead to a significant improvement in the lives of people taking chemo therapy for cancer and people who suffer with disabling migraine headaches, among other conditions. And the feds keep trying to shut down the pot programs.
I know two people who experience extreme pain from headaches; if they could use pot legally, it would cheaper and easier to use than their current pain medication. And no, they cannot take the active element from pot in pill form — they suffer extreme bouts of vomiting so they cannot take pills. Pot is superior because the active element enters the blood faster and bypasses the stomach for absorption. And getting the munchies means they want to eat, which is good when they don’t feel like eating.
And I agree with Xboxershort’s comments on the war on (some) drug (users).
bin Lurkin'
Obama just doesn’t want drug use to ruin the lives of others the way it did his own..
I’m really surprised that so few people can see this.
beltane
If they want to justify the continued criminalization of marijuana they ought to come up with a more plausible rationale then its supposed addictiveness. Nail-biting is addictive, cannabis is not. Maybe we ought to lock up people who bite their nails.
boss bitch
On the list of things that most people care about, legalization doesn’t even make the top 50. No matter how many studies or scientists or polls you throw at people, it is not a priority for them.
Joey Maloney
@beltane: Well, did you know that marijuana makes niggers go crazy and rape your white daughters? I’m surprised Kerlikowske didn’t mention that one.
Guster
@boss bitch: Sure, but so what? Child molestation by priests doesn’t make the top 50, either. It’s still important.
The problem, for me, other than the waste of money and law enforcement resources, and the preventable damage to many thousands of people, is the hypocrisy. Obama’s an admitted criminal who broke the law repeatedly? Should he have gone to jail for his crimes? Should Clinton or Bush (for _those_ crimes)? They’re saying, ‘if you’re caught, the state reserves the right to ruin your life for many years; if you’re not caught, there’s nothing wrong with it at all–you can even become president!’
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
Once again, have people forgotten that “Under God” in the pledge and on our currency is because of laws passed by Congress and signed by former presidents? Do we have to explain all over again why executive orders would not work?
Xboxershorts
@amk: I’ll stop feeding the troll now. Nothing there but insults. No discourse, no argument, no position. Just a juvenile name calling troll.
RRoss
Legalizing pot falls somewhere between Dick Cheney in the Hague and D.C. Statehood on the list of things that are never going to happen.
The WH was just being polite to petitioners (them answering at all is a major victory, if you don’t realize that), but its time to awaken to political reality. This issue is a career killer for any pol who takes it on, and there are many, many more worthwhile issues to stake a legacy on.
bin Lurkin'
@Belafon (formerly anonevent): Exactly, executive orders are only valid for little and unimportant things like extrajudicial executions, not vital subjects such as God in the Pledge.
boss bitch
@Guster:
I am given the opportunity to petition the government to put forth legislation, we are in an economic crisis and the first issue that people bring up is marijuana legalization? THIS is not a priority for most people but the tone deaf left will keep putting it at the front anyway while the rest of the country behind them is worrying about a job or their next meal.
And you think calling out Obama’s use is going to change his or anyone else’s mind? He stopped and got his act together before getting into serious trouble.
keestadoll
I’m in Humboldt County and all this back and forth about enforcement of the federal law is making our local legislators run to COSTCO for gallons of Pepto. IE: “Do we let them build the dispensary? No? What–another strongly worded memo from Justice? What happened to that memo from last year??” [envision small local governments’ heads exploding, local underground economy pioneers anxiously scrunching their tie-dyed dew rags] If interested for battleground thinking on this, Google Times Standard, Eureka CA.
boss bitch
@Joey Maloney:
Really fucking tacky.
Cris (without an H)
So have several other states. The trouble is that it’s in conflict with federal law, so MM users are always walking on eggshells. Montana legalized medical marijuana in 2004, but the industry didn’t take off until 2009 when the Obama administration issued their “hands off” memo. But that was a policy decision by enforcement, and it can be overturned at any time (the way things are going, probably any day now).
bin Lurkin'
@boss bitch:
FTFY
Cris (without an H)
Oh fuck off. FIrst of all, it’s not the “first issue” people bring up. Second, how many times do we have to go through the under-bus-throwing thing? Why are there always people telling us we have to set aside everything that is important to us because they’re not The Most Important Thing? We have to set aside gay rights or women’s rights so we can get health care reform. Apparently we have to set aside privacy rights so we can think about jobs. I guess government is just too small to address more than one concern.
bin Lurkin'
@Cris (without an H):
Yes, and with any luck they’ll be back to deficits, the debt and austerity posthaste.
Michael D.
Shorter
Gil Kerlikowskeguy whose job depends on as keeping as many drugs illegal as possible: “Did you know that marijuana is addictive?”That’s better.
Joey Maloney a/k/a BadExampleMan
@boss bitch: there’s exactly as much scientific evidence for that claim as for the one that pot is addictive.
We live in tacky times.
cleek
@Xboxershorts:
well that’s just hard to believe.
there’s definitely a pot ‘hangover’ effect that lasts more like 36-48 hours, where the brain is just a wee bit less sharp than normal. we called it “the stupids”, in college. it’s far more pleasant than an alcohol hangover, but just as real.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Xboxershorts: “Marijuana is demonstrably NOT physically addictive.”
When I run out of weed, I run out and that’s it. No withdrawal, no DTs, nada. Nothing. Life goes on and that’s it. The fact that mj is ranked with cocaine by the DEA ought to tell anyone who has tried it what a lie the whole bullshit story is.
Food is addictive too. I hear that once you start eating it you have to keep eating it or die.
I’ll sit down with anyone who has their favorite booze and smoke a bong hit for every drink they take. Hell, make it three bong hits for every drink!
Let’s see who ends up in the hospital first.
OzoneR
@Xboxershorts:
whether it is or not is irrelevant. We have plenty of legal addictive things. Hell, I would think it being addictive would be more of a reason to legalize it…someone could make good profits off it.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@cleek: I’m 54, known stoners since I was 18, and I’ve never seen or experienced this or anything like it.
bin Lurkin'
/snark off
This is a subject that I find it almost impossible not to snark on..
I have a child whose life was very nearly ruined through some crooked cops and the drug laws. The only thing that saved my child was the person they married happened to be the child of a high ranking officer in the same department the incident happened. My grandkids’ grandparent looked into the incident in detail with the weight of rank and the motivation of a family member behind them and it took them pulling every string they could find to get it to court where the charge was eventually thrown out.
Today my child just got a new job with more pay and international travel involved, had my child not married the person they did this would not be my child’s fate, my child would be able to get an absolutely dead-end job at best.
So there is why it is personal for me.
/snark on, bitchez
Xboxershorts
@cleek: Dude, where’s my car?
Michael D.
@cleek: Agreed, let’s not pretend there aren’t any effects from pot and argue the facts.
If all the arguments for keeping pot legal are legit, then then alcohol should be illegal as well for the same reasons.
But we know John Boehner would block that…
mellowjohn
in other news, the chicago city council is expected to take up a motion this week to decriminalize pot, making it a misdemeanor worth at $200 ticket.
Ivan Ivanovich Renko
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Indeed. I’m kind of ambivalent– I was a loud legalizer right up to 2002– when I realized there were bigger fish to fry (going to war under false pretenses is a big deal to the parent of someone wearing the uniform).
I’m still 100% pro-legalization; but I’m still in the “bigger fish to fry” stage. We have confederates still trying their damnedest to bring down the union; and I’d rather be focused on that right now.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
No shit, cleek needs to get baked more than once…lol! I’ve been smoking it for forty years now and the only time I ever had any kind of ‘hangover’ was when I first started smoking it.
It wasn’t much of a hangover, that’s for sure. Anyone who says this obviously hasn’t had much time on a bong.
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
I agree, I’ve never said otherwise. Still, it pisses me off to see it so handily dismissed by some.
Priorities, yes. Excuse the situation, agree with it or asking it to be dropped? Fuck that.
efroh
Strange but true. The Drug Czar is prevented by law from advocating legalization.
Mary
Forget “under God.” I find the whole idea of a pledge of allegiance in and of itself kind of creepy.
Xboxershorts
@Ivan Ivanovich Renko:
The drug war and it’s negative effects are spread far and wide throughout society. If you examine the history of it’s expansion from Nixon (Remember the Kent St murders) through this current administration, the drug war can then be seen as not only a law enforcement issue but a direct effort to manage and quash dissent within society through direct intimidation (no knock warrants anyone?) and justification for the deployment of violence by the state against it’s own citizens.
There are other big fish to fry, like the effort by the corporate state to dismantle the EPA, America’s atrocious imperial foreign policy, campaign finance reform, Wall St reform. The list is too long…
But I believe with all my heart that Nixon’s expansion of the drug war was an explicit response to rising disaffection within society of their government. And my view, the drug war is intertwined amongst the other many significant issues noted above.
The drug war is part and parcel of the same core issue, the expansion of American oligarchy.
bin Lurkin'
Anyone who thinks that a large group of extremely powerful people who collectively and universally deny a mountain of scientific evidence and textbook logic is a conspiracy is just nuts, it’s all a big coincidence.
Jewish Steel
I agree that the war on drugs is a foolish waste of time that unfairly targets minorities, but. But! I know life-long recreational weed smokers who have never been arrested once. Not once. 40-50 years of getting high for these cats. How do they do it? They keep it on the DL and don’t do stupid shit in pursuit of their high. Pretty simple.
cleek
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
your research into this subject is obviously incorrect.
that’s wonderful for you.
but, i assure you, your experiences are not everybody else’s experiences.
not since the vape, no.
Jewish Steel
@Mary: Agreed. I check out of that little ritual early in my grade school career.
kindness
I’m always surprised to see some of the responses weed posts bring out here. There are always a couple ‘law & order’ ‘drugs are bad’ posts that sound like they are put out in ernest suggesting the continued illegalization of marijuana are OK & good. And on lefty progressive blogs no less.
In this day and age. Hard to believe.
No one thinks legalizing pot is the most important thing out there, even though it should happen. Responses that suggest waiting because it isn’t the most important thing…well that’s just dumber than Rick Perry. Modern life means doing more things than one at any given time.
What none of us expected (at least not me) was for this administration to make things worse rather than do nothing (which is really all I expected). Utter insanity.
What is it gonna take? The Presidents kids getting busted with some dank? No. This is one of those issues I wish representative government actually represented the people’s will. It’s not. Law & Order & the incarceration corporations want to keep pot illegal. Makes their jobs easier. It is a misplaced prohibition though. I wish it could be debated along those lines that the (false) immorality lines the continued illegaliztion camp uses now. That goes for you commentors here too. Prohibitions only help spur crime, they never supress it.
The Moar You Know
@efroh: By far the most informative post on this thread. Thank you.
You’ll never get anything but fucked up policy when you start with preconditions that can lead to nothing but fucked up policy.
The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik
In an ideal situation, I would hope that our government would be able to walk and chew bubblegum at the same time. I know that we’re far from the ideal thanks to GOP asshats, but I would like to think that just because something isn’t a super immediate right now or else priority that it could still get some attention. Not to mention that the War on Drugs is pretty well linked to the kind of waste our government actually does have.
So count me amongst the disappointed that this administration has actually backslid as far as the approach to weed. I mean, seriously, “weed is addictive”. Yeah, so’s fucking tobacco and nicotine and I can get those over the fuckin’ counter at my Duane Reed. Everything damaging weed does, cigs do worse aside from maybe the memory effects. So why shit down harder on weed while cigarettes remain available at every drug store and supermarket in the country?
The Moar You Know
@Jewish Steel: It’s all good until some dumb bitch yowling on a cell phone runs a red light, t-bones your car, and someone at the hospital runs a blood test on you.
Then it is game fucking over. Nothing you did, just a bad turn of luck. But your life is fucked from that point on, all because our nation’s politicans are fucking cowards who refuse to do the right, obvious thing.
bin Lurkin'
@The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik:
Because shut up, that’s why.
/hope
/change
Jeff Boatright
@amk: Ya know, ya don’t have to be an asshole ALL of the time.
Mr Stagger Lee
We got to keep the Dope illegal, otherwise all those Mexicans in the cartels will be up here, then we will have headless bodies in our deserts, and our national forests. Plus we will bankrupt the American Gun Industry.
Cris (without an H)
You just get better weed than we do
keestadoll
@Mr Stagger Lee: ahahahahahaha. Likely snark, but what the fuck…a)ask the guys and gals who just finished with deer season here if they had any run-in’s with a cartel grow out in the back woods. The answer would be “no,” not because there are none, but because everyone up here knows where the fuck they are and stay way the fuck away from them. Plus, the FBI (headquartered right here in my little town–ps–as of two years ago because they could no longer “blend in” in Garberville)just loves to chat with the locals at the Eel River Brewery during happy hour after a few pints of ERV IPA. Can’t even book a marriage without running into a Quinceañera scheduling conflict. [humming the “Hat Dance” now]
Jewish Steel
@The Moar You Know: That sucks, Moar. The same thing happened to me after a show about 10 years ago. Spent 3 days in the lock up. They drew blood but, lucky for me, I was under .08
singfoom
Remember your history people. Marijuana prohibition went hand in hand in the demonization of both Hispanics and African-Americans.
Is it the most important thing in front of the country today? No, probably not. Is the cost of throwing tons of poor youth of color into jail year after year for the possession and/or distribution of something less or at worst as harmful as alcohol?
How many young lives are wasted in jail because of this war against human nature? How many people are killed because or drug war fuels the narco-cartels on our southern border? How much of our taxpayer money is used to house these people and to go after them?
This is a waste. End the drug war.
The Moar You Know
@Jewish Steel: Not my story, but you get the idea. Keeping it “on the down low” is an exercise in futility, and is certainly no way to avoid the very serious legal consequences that can arise from our current insane laws.
bin Lurkin'
@Jeff Boatright:
You might recall how to get to Carnegie Hall..
Odie Hugh Manatee
@singfoom: “End the drug war.”
Which is a national war against the citizenry of the nation. Funny how it’s ok to declare war on your own population. Ok, it’s not funny, it’s a sad statement about us.
Unfortunately, it’s only one of many.
singfoom
@Odie Hugh Manatee: Wars have fronts and objectives. I know it doesn’t seem that way anymore since all we do is fight insurgencies, but that’s how the old wars worked.
What’s the objective of the drug war? Can it be won? How will we know we’ve reached victory?
Because drug use will never be 0%. I think the best angle to attack this on is the loss of life by swat teams in the wrong place/no knock warrants removing our liberties/NYs stop and frisk BS.
It’s all just a tragic waste of money and energy. Fucking puritans.
Joey Maloney
@mellowjohn: Here’s a pot story from Chicago, from the mid-1980s. I used to have a friend there who was kind of a holy fool: really really super good person but just so naive it was hard to understand how he managed.
Normal people, if you’re smoking a joint on the L platform and a cop walks up and says “Hey, what’s that you’re smoking?”, normal people know that the right answer is “Nothing, officer!” as you hastily stub it out on the bench.
Not my friend. His answer was, “It’s marijuana, officer,” and then because mama always taught him to share, “Want some?” The cop was, like, *facepalm*. “Dude, now I have to take you downtown.”
catclub
@RRoss: Of course, 15 years ago legalizing gay marriage was something that ‘would never happen’. So this argument is not as convincing. Especially when a large state like California has already made big strides to legalize medicinal marijuana.
lawguy
Well I’m now certainly convinced that Obama is a much better choice then the sociopath who will be the republican candidate.
So my choice is sociopath and sociopath-lite. I do so love living in a democracy.
John X.
The drug war is the number one reason why the U.S. has the largest prison population in the world – in real numbers, percentage and per capita. It’s a fucking social catastrophe that has enabled a growing police state.
It’s just a “minor issue” because the police state uses soft hands when dealing with the white, middle class drug user. The law will still busts the random upstanding citizen if the opportunity arises, but they aren’t serving no-knock warrants in the nice neighborhoods.
And this minor issue has had the effect of steadily reducing our civil and legal rights in a way that made it extremely easy to shift the growing surveillance society enable by the drug war over into the war on terrorism. It’ll make it even easier to shift that war into the war on subversives, when the protests get large enough to really scare the status quo.
So, yeah, I tend to view anyone with a “get over it” attitude about the drug war as nothing but an ignorant little enabler. They are more than willing to look away at oppression, so long as they aren’t the ones being oppressed.
catclub
Another reason not to legalize: releasing so many prisoners will raise the unemployment rate, and I just meant the prisoners released, not the guards fired.
bin Lurkin'
@catclub:
C.R.E.A.M.. Gay marriage doesn’t determine the fate of huge bureaucracies and the flow of trillions of dollars around the globe.
Blueberries and watermelons.
Rafer Janders
@Jewish Steel:
How do they do it? Probably by being white and middle to upper class and/or living in the surburbs. White middle class people in the suburbs or in expensive urban neighborhoods don’t get stopped by the cops for random stop and frisks. Young black and Hispanic men in poor neighborhoods in the city do.
Cris (without an H)
Yum.
Jewish Steel
@Rafer Janders: Exactly. Which also accurately describe libertarian whiners who don’t really give a fuck about the travails if poverty in America and just want to get their smoke on. Not accusing you, understand. My point is, if you are white and middle class, you can recreationally smoke with minimal risk as long as you’re not a bonehead.
@The Moar You Know: Of course there is only one way to mitigate all risk incurred from smoking weed. Fortuna is a bitch to the Teetotalers of this world too.
cleek
@lawguy:
you do realize that the president can’t overturn laws the Congress has written, right?
Chris
@Mary:
Wholeheartedly agree. And the notion of having it recited in classrooms by children who’re too young to find their own country on a map, let alone understand what it’s supposed to stand for and what they’re “pledging allegiance” to, creeps the shit out of me.
Marc
@lawguy:
Take your Naderite nonsense and shove it.
The existence of single issues where two parties are close doesn’t magically negate numerous other issues where they are radically different.
Pat
We’ve lost our best chance to enact meaningful progressive policies by electing a Democrat who continues to legitimize bad policy promulgated by the opponents of social progress.
Marc
@Pat:
As opposed to the marvelous progressive advances that Bush engineered, or that McCain would have engineered. I bow to your political savvy!
Pat
@Marc
So you don’t disagree.
Which is worse, a political opposite who supports bad policies, or a political compatriot who legitimizes those policies through bipartisan consensus?
Xboxershorts
@Pat: Whom do you think the masses have a better chance of turning in a new direction?
Pick one ignorant sociopath within the Republican framework whom you believe could be turned towards an overwhelming popular tide?
There is till faith that the Democratic party is not so wholly compromised as the RNC so surely is.
amk
@Jeff Boatright: right, pointing out the political reality is being an asshole, a troll blah.. blah…blah
As I said, totally clueless. You can bitch & moan all you want along with that boxershorts guy but reality is still a bitch.
Xboxershorts
@amk: This clueless lefty, as you so derisively refer to me, takes issue with your entire argument.
If the political reality is a bitch, complaining about it does little. But accepting it as is is far far more damaging.
That, is how you are seen in this thread.
As a serial insulter who would rather mock those who both ARE standing up and being noticed and their supporters.
You came in here to punch hippies, like an arrogant ass. And you found out that hippies bunch back.
It’s been entertaining.
I should also note, you have yet to point out any kind of reality, let alone, political.
Pat
@Xboxershorts –
“Pick one ignorant sociopath within the Republican framework whom you believe could be turned towards an overwhelming popular tide?”
How about demonstrating real discontent to the one we brought to the dance first? Indicating you’ll vote for him no matter what because ZOMGPerryHermancain!!!! will not accomplish that.
That’s the thing with you Loyalists, you can never concede that Obama has done anything wrong. This one-note riff is all you can muster.
Xboxershorts
@Pat: That was not my position.
I favor a primary challenge to drag the conversation back to the reality we have here and now.
But I’ll be damned if the only options come down to Obama or one of these troglodytes from the GoP, I don’t see an alternative.
It’s a very real question. And one that the OWS movement is trying to push on the American public.
Can this administration be pulled away from the NeoCon foundations of his predecessor? Do you think a GoP candidate could be?
Worse yet, willl you abstain from voting and thus enable a full GoP takeover of our government?
amk
@Xboxershorts: dood, all the whining here is being here by you. “You’re mean doing all that hippie punching”. ’nuff said.
When you clueless morons learn how & when to organize on this front, then may be you’ll earn some respect. Right now you come across clueless childish idjit. Enjoy your whinefest.
Xboxershorts
@amk: point it out then internet tough guy.
Bring it on. C’mon mr “all I got is insults and name calling”.
Brachiator
@mistermix:
The administration may be talking drug courts, but the way the feds are going after legal marijuana in California is detestable.
And I guess that the Obama administration is counting on people just shrugging their shoulders and concentrating on “bigger issues” as his administration uses its resources to enforce a sickening Prohibition.
kindness
I don’t get the Obama enablers on the pot issue.
All too often I hear the enablers say ‘Oh but so & so Republican would be worse’. While you are correct there that doesn’t negate all the fuckedupidness that President Obama and his team have brought to this issue. An issue he originally told us he was going to let the states run. Which he has now gone back on his word and is busy sicing the DOJ & the IRS on legal Medical Marijuana.
President Obama lost a whole bunch of cred with me on this issue. I could rationalize Obama caving in negotiations with all sorts of areas, health care, taxes, what ever. This was one area he didn’t have to do any of this and yet he did.
Fuck Obama. I’ll still vote for the misfit but fuck Obama.
@amk: Don’t like being called out as a troll? Too bad troll. Oh, and get an actual argument. All you are doing is acting smug and hippie punching, troll.
amk
Listen potheads. You’re the ones trolling the WH website with your useless whines & escapist ‘suggestions’ . If you shitheads lose your cool and can’t convince even one person in teh intertoobs, you morons deserve all the scorn you deserve. Now GFY.
Xboxershorts
@amk: More of the same non-response: insults and name calling.
By the way, I’m a senior network engineer, a homeowner, a veteran, a father and a taxpayer.
Your particular labels are outdated son.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Jewish Steel:
Fix’t.
(And I really don’t care to hear if no one of them is totally 1/16th Mexican or whatever. Blacks and Hispanics take the brunt of the damage inflicted by the drug war, that’s just a fact.)
It’s simply wrong to consider the drug war without looking at the big picture. The problem is not that Deadheads get hassled by the man, man. The problem is that we have an obscenely huge prison population. Our police are militarized and itching to unleash their firepower on someone, even if it means raiding the wrong house and shooting some dogs in the name stamping out the horrible scourge of pot smoking. People have to submit to the humiliation of peeing in a cup for the privilege of keeping their shitty minimum wage job.
Oh, there was something else… oh yes there’s the bloody war being waged by drug cartels in Mexico. More than 40,000 people have died since 2006. We could cut off most of their funding by simply legalizing weed and coke, which would be a big help to the Mexicans who’d prefer not to live in a brutal criminal state. Oh, but then little Jimmy might get the message that smoking weed is ok, and we can’t have that!
But really, the ultimate question is: how was this drug war supposed to help in the first place? For all of these prohibitions, the idea is that drug use is bad, therefore we can reduce that harm by making drugs illegal. But we’ve been trying this for more than 100 years now, and we know that it doesn’t work. The only effects these laws have are to make users’ lives even worse, to empower the criminal class, and to give law’n’order assholes a stiffy. Drug use doesn’t go down because of the laws. Anyone in this country can get whatever drug they want if they put their mind to it. They are ubiquitous. If the drug laws have had any effect on use, it would seem to actually increase it in the long run.
That’s what this self-inflicted misery has earned us. Hell, that’s the tip of the iceberg. So don’t fucking tell me this isn’t an important issue. Honestly, if you claim to be a lefty who favors social justice and you don’t oppose the drug war I have to wonder what definition of justice you use.
Jewish Steel
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
I do. It’s just that I see the drug war as a symptom and not the cause of our ills.
Mike G
@Chris:
This. It’s the creepy authoritarian mentality of conditioning children to blind obedience to things they don’t understand, of which there is way too much in this country, especially if you’ve lived in the South. Coercing kids to loyalty oaths is an ugliness that does not belong in a supposedly free society.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Jewish Steel: And you think doctors never do anything to ameliorate symptoms?
Remember, in this case the symptom is that we’re unjustly ruining the lives of millions. You think we should ignore that in favor of… what?
Jewish Steel
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: False dichotomy. We can fix everything given significant political will. But the root of class strife is along the capital/labor axis. Beginning to address economic inequality starts with some seriously boring (to most) shit like fixing our regressive tax code.
Political will is the tricky part, don’t you think? I mean, if you can get congress to take marijuana off schedule I, you’re golden. And since political will swells from the ground up, I’ll run as the LegalizeIt Party cadidate dogcather and you run for GoodVibrations county coroner and we’ll meet back here when we win and plan our next move.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@boss bitch:
You are high, bossy. President Obama is the force responsible for putting it at the front. The state of California, for example, already decided that medically assisting sick and diseased people with marijuana was a good, needful and legal thing. The hypocritical former weed enthusiast/Unitary Executive disagrees, and believes that physically hurting these unfortunate folks will benefit his re-election campaign, so he has made it a Priority One issue, and put it before trivial matters such as prosecuting Wall Street gangbankstas and Geneva Convention war criminals.
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Pat
Hundy!!
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Jewish Steel: Dude, multiple cities and states have already decriminalized marijuana or legalized medical marijuana. Is that not “ground up” enough?
I really don’t understand what point you’re making. Because there’s no chance that Obama will push for legalization, we shouldn’t even talk about it? Is there no place in politics for simply stating the basic facts and the obvious conclusion to which those facts lead?
The drug war is an massively idiotic waste that does absolutely nothing good for society. Every single aspect of drug law enforcement makes this country (and others) a worse place to live without providing a single benefit, other than to the private prison industry. Maybe if so-called leftists spent a little more time saying so rather than saying, “This issue is unimportant and besides are are bad mmkay,” the political will could grow over time.
Jewish Steel
@Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
When multiple becomes many and then most then you will have dispenseries from coast to coast.
And that rhymes, so it’s doubly true.
According to me, the Steeliest Jew.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Jewish Steel: So what? We should give up because… we haven’t succeeded yet?
What is your point?
HyperIon
@PurpleGirl wrote:
And I know two people who live in SF and are smoking really good pot that they got for their medical problem: “difficulty falling asleep”.
Most knowledgeable people admit that there’s a whole lot of fraud wrt medical mj in CA. I feel sorry for the truly sick folks who will be hurt by the backlash.
I also feel sorry for any moron who thought Kerlikowske was going to advocate for legalization. Norm Stampfer is the only law enforcement guy who does that. And Gil is no Norm Stampfer.
The silver lining: Kerlikowske is no longer Police Chief in Seattle. But it’s a very thin lining.
Marginalized for stating documented facts
@cleek:
You do realize that previous presidents have regularly overturned laws the Congress has written on a nearly daily basis, right?
You have heard of “signing statements,” haven’t you?
No?
Get a clue. Previous presidents have consistently refused to implement laws congress has passed merely by using signing statements. Overturning laws congress has passed by means of presidential signing statements is now a standard and thoroughly revered feature of the modern American political system.
demz taters
This is primarily a civil liberties issue. Just consider that prohibition of marijuana gives the police an excuse to harass literally millions of people who would otherwise have no reason whatsoever to be on their radar.
Jewish Steel
Yes, J-Rod. That is my point. You personally should give up. I guess I couldve just cut to the chase.
Marginalized for stating documented facts
@demz taters:
You’re on the right track. But the issue looms much larger than just “civil liberties.”
The War On Brown People (misnamed the War on Drugs) boils down to the thin edge of the wedge effort to destroy the constitution and militarize American life and turn all of American society into a master/slave Orwellian totalitarian system.
Think about it:
…What caused the “asset forfeiture” laws which erased the fourth amendment?
War On Drugs.
…What was responsible for unnaounced drug-sniffer-dog checkpoints where if a dog likes a tire in your trunk, your entire car gets confiscated?
War On Drugs.
…What started the “sneak and peak” police raids where a judge issues a secret order for police to pick the lock on your front door, rummage around in your house looking for anything that might possibly break the law, record the evidence in photos, and then leave your house without providing any evidence they’d ever been there?
War On Drugs.
…How many illegal surveillance wiretapping warrants authorized by the USA Treason Act (misnamed the USA Patriot Act) get authorized for drug cases, as opposed to suspected terrorism? Answer: 95% of all Patriot Act wiretaps are authorized as a result of drug investigations, NOT for terrorism investigations.
Once again, thank the War On Drugs.
…What explains the massive militarization of American policing, with SWAT tanks, riot armor, SWAT snipers, Laws rockets, routine use of flash-bang grenades and SAS-style shotgun-both-door-hinges off when entering the premises of a suspect?
War On Drugs.
…How do racists in authority keep the black population in America down and out, with 1/3 of black males under age 35 either in prison or under parole supervision?
War On Drugs.
…How do police making $60,000 a year afford multiple vacation homes, sailboats, yearly family vacations to Hawaii, filet mignon every night for dinner, college tuition for three kids at the best Ivy League schools? Answer: by ripping off drug dealers and keeping the money.
The War On Drugs is very profitable for police as well as for drug dealers.
…How do you create a constant state of fear in America and convince Americans that anyone with different-color skin is “the other” and evil and not to be trusted and dangerous? How do you convince Americans to rat one another out, how do you get parents to turn their children in, and children to turn their parents in, how do you induce brothers to turn stool pigeon on sisters and best friends to accuse one another of committing crimes they never committed just to lighten unbearably harsh prison sentences?
War on Drugs: the quick way to turn America into East Germany.
Baron Jrod of Keeblershire
@Jewish Steel: You gonna actually make a point?
Or do you think “The drug war can’t be all that bad cuz’ my buddies ain’t hurtin’ for it,” is some kind of trenchant analysis?
Jewish Steel
Your failure to grasp the points I have made I take as my own humble failure. If only I could communicate more clearly! Alas, language has never been my strong suit.
I suggest you review my comments on this thread (maybe write them down on index cards to review at your leisure) and see if you can divine some kind of sense from my hieroglyphic ramblings and telegraphic ejaculations.
Your poor scribe apologizes.