LIVE STREAM: Massachusetts Senate Debate: Elizabeth Warren, Yo

[via Boston Herald]

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200 replies
  1. 1
    Short Bus Bully says:

    She makes my liberal heart go pitter patter.

  2. 2
    William Hurley says:

    Being a native Cantabridgian, I’m delighted that Ms Warren made her career in my hometown. The problem she’s facing, in the primary and possibly the general, is money.

    It’s obvious she’s going to have to operate, as a fund raiser, in a very narrow donor band. Then, if she does make the generals, she’s going to have to fight 24 incumbents for DSCC/DNC cash. Then there’s the President’s fund raising monster to contend with, a monster that will do everything it can to vacuum-up a minimum of $1 billion.

    I wish her well. But, it is too bad that the President pulled the rug out from under her at the CFPB.

    businesses and out-of-state lobbies will swamp the state with anti-Warren propaganda and

  3. 3
    desraye says:

    But, it is too bad that the PresidentGOP pulled the rug out from under her at the CFPB.

    Fixed that for you.

    Then there’s the President’s fund raising monster to contend with, a monster that will do everything it can to vacuum-up a minimum of $1 billion.

    The president will most likely campaign for her.She will get the money that she needs to beat Scott Brown.

  4. 4
    Baud says:

    But, it is too bad that the President pulled the rug out from under her at the CFPB.

    Wow, just wow.

  5. 5
    gogol's wife says:

    @William Hurley:

    Oh yes, everything bad is Obama’s fault. Give me a break.

  6. 6
    lol says:

    I wish her well. But, it is too bad that the President pulled the rug out from under her at the CFPB.

    Lord save us from the nattering of bloggers who don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about.

    You’d be hard pressed to find anyone involved at the CFPB, including Warren herself, who would agree with your witless assessment.

  7. 7
    Short Bus Bully says:

    @William Hurley:
    U R DUM.

  8. 8

    I’m falling in love with Elizabeth. And I swear, the more I hear her talk, the more I get that we are political soul mates. Her willingness, and ability to use nuance to explain herself in just a few extra words, is like manna from pol heaven for my ear. Very few politicians are any good at that, either by being lazy, or just not able to not come off sounding like intellectual snob, or just boring the shit out of peeps. So they don’t even make the effort.

    She is a natural born, pol, in the best sense of that term.

  9. 9
    William Hurley says:

    @desraye:

    I don’t think she wants to “be” Scott Brown.

    As for “rug-pulling”, I don’t remember Warren siting before a nominating committee, beating back inane questions from GOP mini-minds nor the vote rejecting her nomination.

    Can you provide me the link.

    OR should I point you to reports of the President’s own decision?

  10. 10

    @William Hurley:

    You need to pay attention, grasshopper. Elizabeth Warren is the biggest Obot on three continents, and maybe the rest. Listen, learn. No wank.

  11. 11
    Jenny says:

    Wow, Warren wants to “trim our regulations down”.

    See, Jane Hamsher was right, Warren would make a “terrible” Senator.

  12. 12

    @Jenny:

    She is the ultimate pragmatic liberal. Or seems so, so far.

    And is for paying for our shit, before we do it. Like wars and stuff.

  13. 13
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @General Stuck: I only saw a little of the debate (phone rang, bad stream), but that professorial demeanor covers a pretty quick wit. She looks better and better the more I see her.

  14. 14
    desraye says:

    @William Hurley:

    What the president and Elizabeth Warren supposed to do?

  15. 15
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley:

    But, it is too bad that the President pulled the rug out from under her at the CFPB.

    LOLWUT?

  16. 16
    William Hurley says:

    @Short Bus Bully:

    Hmmm, One question. Since 1965, how many GOP Governors has the “Bay State” had? Over the past 2 decades, how many years has a Democrat held the Governor’s office?

    And yes, Senator is not “Governor”, but both are elected by state-wide ballot.

  17. 17
    Turgidson says:

    @General Stuck:

    She is a natural born, pol, in the best sense of that term.

    It could also be argued that one of the reasons she sounds so persuasive is that the way she speaks about the issues is so damn frank and sincere in a way that even very talented politicians usually can’t pull off. That she’s very much not a natural-born politician, in other words.

    But in any event, I’m a big fan too.

  18. 18

    @Turgidson:

    Statesman, or stateswoman, might be a better term than natural born politician. Though like I said, I meant that in the best definition of that term.

  19. 19
    desraye says:

    @William Hurley:

    It was not Obama’s choice, but Elizabeth Warren’s choice to avoid confirmation. For god sakes, Peter Diamond, a Nobel Peace prize winner, could not get confirmed.

  20. 20
    lol says:

    The Beltway firewall goes both ways.

    Live in DC and you won’t know fuck all about what’s going on outside the Beltway. But live outside of DC and you won’t know fuck all about what’s going on inside the Beltway.

    That’s why most Professional Left bloggers can speak so well and credibly about what’s going wrong in America… but when it comes to actual politics in DC, they sound like David Brooks talking about the impact the salad bar at Applebee’s has on the middle class. Utterly clueless.

    Yet people regard them as being credible voices (or even experts) for politics the same way David Brooks has bafflingly become credible for talking about middle America.

  21. 21
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    This is OT, but debate related. I’m crafting a new series. Gordon Ramsay’s Campaign Nightmares. Episode One has a preview.

  22. 22
    William Hurley says:

    @Yutsano:

    Did I miss a Senate nominating hearing? Or did the President follow his tried and true practice of caving-in instead of fighting?

  23. 23
    eemom says:

    @William Hurley:

    can you stop being an idiot please? And if you can’t, can you try to be an idiot in fewer words? kthxbai.

  24. 24
    Jenny says:

    The reason the economy collapsed is because Wall Street was deregulated.

    And now Warren says she wants to deregulate even more (“I want to trim our regulations down”].

    That should disqualify her right there.

  25. 25
    Baud says:

    @William Hurley: Hmm, so Warren must be a coward too. She won’t even call Obama out.

  26. 26
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley: Did you miss the step where Warren herself elected not to be nominated? And while electing not to be nominated and preparing her choice TO be nominated, went about actually setting up the CFPB? Or does your ODS make you blind to such things?

  27. 27
    William Hurley says:

    @desraye:

    Incorrect on both counts.

    Care to provide links to either individual’s nominating hearing?

    Short of that, the President chose to punt.

    In fact, the number of nominees Obama’s chosen to fight for is negligible. Unless, of course, he pick’s GOP stars like Gates or Petraeus, then it’s trumpets, speedy nominations and shitty policy.

  28. 28
    Baud says:

    @Yutsano: You’d be better off trying to convince a birther that Obama is American. I regret my part in feeding the trolls.

  29. 29
    lamh34 says:

    Wait, I thought Obama was the problem here!

    With “friends” like these…

    Reid: I Can’t Get Unanimous Support From Dems To Use The Bathroom, Let Alone For Obama’s Jobs Bill

  30. 30
    barath says:

    @Jenny:

    The reason the economy collapsed is because Wall Street was deregulated.

    Erm…not really. I mean, that was part of it, but the picture is a lot more complicated.

  31. 31
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jenny: Not all regulations are the same. Some good, some bad. Good regulations, good. Bad regulations, bad.

  32. 32
    Jenny says:

    These guys look terrible, Warren included.

    Hopefully Terry Francona and/or Theo Epstein will save us and enter the race.

  33. 33
  34. 34
  35. 35
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @William Hurley: Moron.

  36. 36
    Roger Moore says:

    @William Hurley:
    You missed the part where the Republicans in the Senate threatened to filibuster her nomination. Given how easy filibusters are, that’s not an idle threat. The filibuster essentially gives the Republicans a veto over nominations as long as they can stand tough as a group.

  37. 37
    desraye says:

    @desraye: I mean here you go.

  38. 38
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @eemom:

    You’re asking quite a bit from him.

  39. 39
    lol says:

    @William Hurley:

    “Obama pulled the rug out from underneath her at the CFPB”? Name names.

  40. 40
    some guy says:

    the Warren confirmation hearings were great political theatre. Her stunning repudiation of Orrin Hatch was a real and jaw-dropping spectacle. the fact that Obama was willing to fight so hard for his first choice to head CFPB, as well as stand up to Geithner and his ilk by sending Warren as his nominee to the Senate for confirmation, is testament to his continued political acumen.

  41. 41
    William Hurley says:

    @eemom:

    Sorry to expose you to rational, factual, honest analysis.

    Let me ask you this, how much money do you think Brown will raise? How about GOP SuperPACs and assorted interest groups?

    How many Wall St firms, large businesses or Fidelity execs living in Massachusetts will donate to Ms Warren? Or Brown?

    Will the President really spend critical hours or days campaigning for a rookie candidate run against an incumbent when the party has 25 incumbent Senate seats to defend?

  42. 42
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @lol:

    “Umm….William Hurley?”

  43. 43
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @William Hurley:

    Sorry to expose you to rational, factual, honest analysis.

    When you said that, I presumed you were going to link to someone.

  44. 44
    William Hurley says:

    @lol:

    O-B-A-M-A.

    That’s the name.

    Did you mean something different?

  45. 45
    lol says:

    @William Hurley:

    Obama said he pulled the rug out from under her? Have a quote handy or are you making shit up again?

  46. 46
    John O says:

    Warren will win on her own.

  47. 47
    Lolis says:

    @some guy:

    Look, Obama nominated a guy who is a strong consumer advocate for the position. It is not like he picked some Goldman Sachs flunkee to run the joint. If Warren had been nominated maybe you would have had your hearings, then what? She languished in confirmation purgatory. Now she is a Senate candidate who could win and hold that seat for 20 plus years. That is a way better use of her talents. We all now the GOP will destroy the CFPB whenever they get in the White House.

  48. 48
    JPL says:

    I’m disappointed because not one person on the stage on said drill, baby, drill. Sarah is so disappointed.

  49. 49
    William Hurley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Why are O-Bots so willfully ignorant of or hostile to the basics facts on this matter?

    It’s a very Tea-ish behavior.

    This letter signals that the Senate Republicans have surrendered their fight against Elizabeth Warren.

    Warren is an outstanding champion for consumers. If the American public gets more exposure to her, they will love her. Wall Street and its congressional allies would be bruised and muddied by a nomination fight; she and the CFPB would be strengthened.
    Apparently the Senate Republicans understand this. So they are doing the best they can to retreat strategically. It’s not a bad strategy: First, they are pretending their fight is about something else. They say they would oppose any nominee, not just Professor Warren, because the agency is structurally flawed. Second, they are forcing the president to make a recess appointment, which they will use to claim that he and the agency are unaccountable and undemocratic. Their arguments about the agency are specious, as recent congressional debate has shown. It’s clear that they simply oppose a strong consumer protection agency.
    The Senate Republicans’ strategic surrender — giving up on fighting Warren and saying instead that they would oppose anyone — leaves President Obama no choice but to appoint a CFPB director during a Senate recess. It also leaves him no reason to appoint anyone but the strongest candidate, Elizabeth Warren. That’s an excellent development.

    Source which is merely one of many….

  50. 50
    some guy says:

    If Warren had been nominated maybe you would have had your hearings, then what? She languished in confirmation purgatory.

    so true. there is no way she could have entered the race if she had been sent to the Senate for confirmation 15 months ago.

  51. 51
    Jenny says:

    @William Hurley: You make some great points. This is why no one should contribute to her campaign, because as you make clear, Warren can’t win.

  52. 52
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley: First of all it’s poor taste to link to Hufflepuff without warning.

    Second, that was an opinion piece. Do better.

  53. 53
    lol says:

    Also, being formally nominated would’ve prevented Warren from speaking publicly. That’s why people don’t get formally nominated unless they’re actually going to get confirmed or they don’t have anything better to do publicly. (Want proof? How many speeches has Cordray given since being nominated? Zero.)

    Just one of those small little facts that the Firebaggers seem to be ignorant of. But I guess they would’ve preferred Warren to be muzzled like the bankers want her to be.

  54. 54
    Litlebritdifrnt2 says:

    @Jenny:

    Warren can’t win? How so? Please show your work.

  55. 55
    Baud says:

    @Yutsano: Ha! I actually checked the link before clicking. About 99% of the time someone offers proof of something on the Internet, it’s just leading you into one big circlejerk.

  56. 56
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Jenny:

    Keep trying.

    @William Hurley:

    Give up.

    @Jenny:

    Try harder.

  57. 57
    lol says:

    @William Hurley:

    Brilliant. A letter from 44 Republicans saying they’ll oppose *any* nominee for Director, much less Warren, is proof that they were ready to cave on supporting her?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  58. 58
    some guy says:

    not speakingf publicly for 15 months sure would have been a handicap, no doubt.

    are you all really this stupid, or do you need to work hard at it?

  59. 59
    Jenny says:

    @some guy:

    if she had been sent to the Senate for confirmation 15 months ago.

    But the CFPB didn’t begin until July 21, 2011. That’s less than 3 months ago. Hard to confirm someone for a position before it exists.

  60. 60
    William Hurley says:

    @Lolis:

    He did indeed nominate someone other than Warren. Will he be good, great, adequate…? Who knows. He’s gotten praise from Warren and others, but the proof is in the pudding. And there’s the problem.

    Obama’s “cave-first”, “capitulate-first-as-well” approach to backing nominees and candidates therefor has embolden the GOP to keep taking political hostages and exacting easily gotten demands.

    Besides, do you think Obama would willingly upset his buddy Timmeh! by pushing for Warren over his objections?

    Here’s info on the GOP’s collapsing opposition to Warren – documented well before the President pulled the rug.

  61. 61
    lol says:

    @Jenny:

    The CFPB’s been around for about a year. July was just when most of its regulatory authority came on-line.

  62. 62
    FlipYrWhig says:

    You know who supported the idea of abandoning the Warren nomination to CFPB? Elizabeth Warren.

  63. 63
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @William Hurley: That link is not information. It’s cockamamie non-analysis and wishful thinking. Give it up. Elizabeth Warren herself would tell you so too.

  64. 64
    William Hurley says:

    @Jenny:

    Hmmm, the Obama Administration didn’t “start” until January 21, 2009. Yet, Hillary’s Senate nomination hearing for State took place on January 13th – before the Obama Administration legally existed.

    You had a point?

  65. 65
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @William Hurley: How do you do a recess appoint if Congress hold pro forma sessions?

  66. 66
    lol says:

    @William Hurley:

    There was no “collapsing opposition”. In fact, your link demonstrates that Republicans were only digging in further by opposing *any* nominee.

  67. 67
    Lolis says:

    @William Hurley:

    Yeah, whatever Obama didn’t fight for Warren. I will agree with you that he did not push it. He doesn’t waste his energy on personnel fights. That is well established pattern that started well before Elizabeth Warren. My point is this: our opinions should change as the facts change. I am pleased that Obama’s decision not to nominate her led her to a Senate run. I think she will win and have a far greater influence in that role.

  68. 68
    Catsy says:

    It’s really helpful when people like William Hurley are active enough on their first go-round to give everyone a comprehensive picture of how little value their opinions hold.

    Yet another pie candidate I don’t have to waste my time with.

  69. 69
    The Commish says:

    Can we clone her?

  70. 70
    Jenny says:

    @William Hurley: Don’t be hostile, I agree with you, Warren can’t win and there’s no need to waste of time and money on her.

    But obviously, the office of Secretary of State already existed when Hillary’s hearing began.

    Maybe you can recommend nominations to future agencies that yet to exist.

  71. 71
    William Hurley says:

    @Lolis:

    Indeed, Obama fights for no one but himself.

    And Sen Scott Brown thanks him for his capitulation.

  72. 72
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Lolis:

    Yeah, whatever Obama didn’t fight for Warren. I will agree with you that he did not push it. He doesn’t waste his energy on personnel fights. That is well established pattern that started well before Elizabeth Warren.

    Warren herself has some agency in this matter, no? By “not pushing it,” she got to set up the agency. What would the results have been of pushing it? Whatever they were, let’s consider the possibility that _Warren_ decided they weren’t worth it.

  73. 73
    JPL says:

    I’m not sure how many are watching the debate but I can tell you that it’s refreshing to listen to policy wonks. I live in GA and our debates are more a long the lines of drill baby drill.

  74. 74
    Mnemosyne says:

    @William Hurley:

    Will the President really spend critical hours or days campaigning for a rookie candidate run against an incumbent when the party has 25 incumbent Senate seats to defend?

    I have to say, this is the funniest comment of all given that Obama is one of the people who were urging her to run for Senate.

    But I’m sure he did it all as part of his deep, dark plan to secretly torpedo her campaign, amirite?

  75. 75
    some guy says:

    as others have pointed out, July 21st, 2011 was the deadline for a nominatioon, not a starting line.

  76. 76
  77. 77
    lol says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Just like Obama never intended to end DADT by passing legislation to end it.

  78. 78
    lacp says:

    I think she’ll make a good senator. I’d rather see her as a regulator, spanking the bad boys as needed, but she sounds like she’ll stick up for the other 99% (and publicly, too) so it’s still a win.

  79. 79
    A Humble Lurker says:

    I gotta say, it makes me positively giddy how weak the troll-fu is against Warren. I knew she was a pretty non-offensive figure and they’d have to stretch to demonize her but really. They have got absolutely nothing. It’s awesome.

    And I’m real pleased to see how well she’s doing. When it became official she was running I was worried. I thought ‘She’s one of the good ones, she’s got all this potential, what if she can’t campaign? How fucking tragic would that be?’ But she’s turned out to not only be good at it but she also seems to like it. And I’m lovin’ watching her work.

  80. 80
    Jenny says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: As it specifically says, the transfer date of regulatory authority was July 21, 2011.

  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Jenny: And it appeared magically from Zeus’s head on that date?

    You seem to have a real animus toward Warren. Care to explain?

  82. 82
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @lol: And just like how _not_ confiscating guns only proves how intent they are on confiscating guns.

  83. 83
    eemom says:

    @Jenny:

    See, Jane Hamsher was right, Warren would make a “terrible” Senator.

    umm…..that IS snark, please?

  84. 84
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @eemom: Oddly, no.

  85. 85
    William Hurley says:

    @Jenny:

    Firstly, let correct a mistaken understanding of my thoughts in Warren’s electoral chances, an understanding my language may have tipped.

    I think it would be great if she won. If I still lived in MA, I’d eagerly vote for her.

    However, my wishes and political reality don’t always overlap. In Warren’s case, she’s facing a field of primary challengers who are all generally good to excellent and whom also have established operations in state politics. Warren’s reportedly building fast, but it’s still catch-up. Catch-up on several fronts – money being the other major area.

    If she does win the primary, she’s only going from the pan to the fire. First of all, the GOP has 2, maybe 3 incumbent seats that are “competitive”, Brown being one of them. Conversely, the Democrats have 23 seats to defend (I wrote 25 elsewhere in error) and most of them are either competitive or vulnerable. Plus, Diane Feinstein’s campaign is functionally broke – having been victimized by a staffer turned embezzler.

    That’s a lot of seats and a whole lot of money. Note that 8 of the Dems incumbents seats are in the most expensive media markets in the nation – and Warren makes 9. Mo’ money, mo’ money, mo’ money.

    Lastly, if the GOP and its funders proved successful in scaring Obama, and the full resources of the Federal government, out of defending Warren in a Senate hearing, do you think they’ll be more eager and more aggressive in challenging her when she stands alone?

    Hardly. Count Citizen’s United as one of her most relentless foes.

    As for the nomination process, the CFPB was legally established and was only waiting “operational” status which occurred 3 months ago. Besides, the President nominate Cordray before the Jan 21 date as well – a fact that puts the nail in your “timing” thesis.

  86. 86
    eemom says:

    I got 5 bucks sez “William Hurley” is 12 years old, tops.

    For his sake I hope I’m right.

  87. 87
    Yutsano says:

    @eemom:

    I got 5 bucks sez “William Hurley” is 12 years old a Republican operative

    He practically admits it a few threads down.

  88. 88
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Yutsano: Linky?

    ETA: Or point me to the thread…

  89. 89
    Morzer says:

    Warren is doing extremely well in the polls for the MA Senate race, not to mention crushing in the primary. Hell, the “other” Warren dropped out because he knew who was going to win. She’s nowhere near her ceiling as far as name-recognition goes and Scott Brown is in full-on self-soiling mode already. She’s got every chance of winning this thing and that’s good for Democrats and for the long-suffering people of Massachusetts. As for the obligatory circular pissing match as to who betrayed whom recently, it’s based on minimal evidence and a total waste of time for thinking beings. If you want Warren to win, donate for her, work for her and otherwise let the trolls spend some quality moments fucking themselves. If you don’t want Warren to win, you’ve got the sense that the FSM gave the average nematode and you probably think Sarah Palin would make a great President.

  90. 90
    Yutsano says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Took me a minute. You being the lawyer you are you could turn that into a conviction in a heartbeat.

  91. 91
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    In Warren’s case, she’s facing a field of primary challengers who are all generally good to excellent

    No, she’s facing a field of uninspiring local politicians who have never looked like beating Scott Brown. If you lived in Massachusetts, or understood anything about its politics, you’d know this.

  92. 92
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Morzer: I have been retained as counsel by the average nematode. Your statement was defamatory toward my client and if you do not immediately retract it and apologize, I will pursue all legal options on my client’s behalf up to, and including, litigation.

  93. 93
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    While delighted to hear that Michelle Bachmann has secured quality legal counsel, I fear I must decline to retract a statement based on factual evidence and mature deliberation.

  94. 94
    Morzer says:

    Interestingly, it seems that West Virginia has resisted the GOP-Bolshevik tide and chosen Tomblin to governate some more.

  95. 95
    cynn says:

    @A Humble Lurker: She’s a redistributionist, donchaknow. That’s all the righties have to hear, and they’re off to the races.

  96. 96
    aisce says:

    when did jenny graduate to full-blown trolldom? the fat thread?

    is there anybody left on this site who isn’t a troll save omnes? i might have to switch things up for variety’s sake.

    call your senator and tell them to pass the american jobs act now! yes we can!

  97. 97
    Judas Escargot says:

    @William Hurley:

    Being a native Cantabridgian,

    Just FYI: People actually native to Cambridge don’t call themselves “Cantabridgians”. That’s a Harvard thing.

    You really suck at this.

  98. 98
    Morzer says:

    @aisce:

    is there anybody left on this site who isn’t a troll save omnes?

    I’ve heard rumors that John Cole is sound. Mind you, he’s a Steelers’ fan….

  99. 99
    B W Smith says:

    @Yutsano: I see no reason why Mr. Hurley (who uses the name of a kidnapped and killed 24 year old from Mass as his nym) could not be an RNC operative and 12 years old. The RNC obviously pays by the word because he strings them together in a Palinesque word salad that is painful to read.

  100. 100
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @aisce: I troll by not trolling. It is a zen thing.

  101. 101
    aisce says:

    @ morzer

    jesus, look at those vote totals on tpm. west virginia had fewer voters than some congressional districts. such vibrant democracy.

    well, best of luck to gov. earl tom or billy bob or whatever his redneck name is.

  102. 102
    William Hurley says:

    @Yutsano:

    I do not presently live in MA, but that’s only a recent change. Outside of my military service, I was born and lived in MA for 4 decades. I also spend many, many hours working as a volunteer or staffer for dozens of Democratic/left candidates over that time – at the city, state, county and Fed levels.

    So, now that we’ve put the “whose authority is bigger” nonsense behind us, let’s look at the substance. Is Warren the instant leader in the primary horse-race in MA? No doubt.

    Are the standing candidates strong – not necessarily but, as I wrote, none of them are policy punks and each would be a step-up from Brown.

    That said, read my reply in post #85. And ask yourself, how much money will Brown raise and have available through SuperPACs and 527s? Will the hugely wealthy and influential financial services industry of Greater Boston and its beneficiaries donate a piddling sum or nothing at all to Warren? How abut the CU protected national financial services industry?

    I’ll look for your reply.

  103. 103
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @B W Smith: Child labor laws… Oh, never mind, you might be right.

  104. 104
    piratedan says:

    @Morzer: well I’m only part troll, on my great grandfather’s side but we don’t like to discuss that much in polite company….

  105. 105
    Morzer says:

    @Judas Escargot:

    It isn’t even a Harvard thing. You’ll find graduates of the “real” Cambridge very occasionally calling themselves Cantabrigians, but they generally spell it correctly when they do.

  106. 106
    cynn says:

    What’s all this obsession with the eradication or kettling of “trolls?” Why can’t people just disagree and maybe goose someone now and then?

  107. 107
    William Hurley says:

    @B W Smith:

    3 strikes in one pathetic jumble.

    I’d expect less, but we’re already at a “zero-lower-bound” with you.

  108. 108
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That whereof we cannot troll, thereof we must be silent.

    At least, I think that’s what Wittgenstein said. Or maybe it was Jane Hamsher.

  109. 109
    Morzer says:

    @piratedan:

    In the darkness under the bridge, we are all children of the One.

  110. 110
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Morzer: There is a difference?

  111. 111
    Judas Escargot says:

    @William Hurley:

    I was born and lived in MA for 4 decades

    What high school did you go to?

  112. 112
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    In Warren’s case, she’s facing a field of primary challengers who are all generally good to excellent

    Are the standing candidates strong – not necessarily

    Interesting pair of statements.

  113. 113
    Steeplejack says:

    @aisce:

    I am not a troll. On the other hand, I haven’t been on here much lately. (Okay, lurking, but not commenting. We seem to be going through a cranky, fingerpainting-on-the-wall phase.)

  114. 114
    Steeplejack says:

    @piratedan:

    Win.

  115. 115
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I suspect that Jane Hamsher never received an adoring look from Bertrand Russell. But I could well be wrong.

  116. 116
    Mnemosyne says:

    @aisce:

    Jenny is trolling the troll, but some people aren’t quite clued in yet.

  117. 117
    Jebediah says:

    @William Hurley:

    Lastly, if the GOP and its funders proved successful in scaring Obama, and the full resources of the Federal government, out of defending Warren in a Senate hearing,

    So what? Asswipe Republican Senators don’t get to put “holds” on or filibuster Massachusetts voters.

  118. 118
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    From DERP to ZIRP in one fell swoop. Where do you find the energy?

  119. 119
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley: I recommend you fax your credenza to John Cole. Otherwise the helicopters will…not…stop…laughing….

    And nothing in what you said refuted my assertion. But nice attempt at changing the subject.

  120. 120
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Morzer: Kurt’s brother?

  121. 121
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: God, I need to get some sleep.

  122. 122
    William Hurley says:

    @gogol’s wife:

    You read and assume well ahead of facts.

    But don’t let that slow you down.

  123. 123
    B W Smith says:

    @William Hurley: Interesting that there have been multiple folks pointing out your discrepancies and obvious trolling, yet, you lash out at me. Did I hit too close to home? I really shouldn’t ask you questions, last time I did I got a three page treatise.

  124. 124
    cynn says:

    Plus, where does this kettling concept come from? Here in Colorado, whenever we erect an impassible barrier around animate objects, we call it “fencing.”

  125. 125
    William Hurley says:

    @General Stuck:

    Whether she’s an “O-Bot” or not is immaterial.

    That you think it is speaks to your own inability to view the political landscape with any semblance of realism.

  126. 126
    aisce says:

    @ mnemosyne

    i realize that. normally her m.o. is to get all snitty and rant about hamsher and/or post three obama photo links before fywp kicks in.

    she’s developed a new creative direction here. i’m not sure who this hurley pendejo is though.

  127. 127
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @cynn: No, silly, fencing is a sport.

  128. 128
    William Hurley says:

    @Baud:

    I was under the impression that Warren’s nomination to the CFPB was dependent on the President, not that the President’s career is dependent on Warren.

    Do you have no clue as basic human, political and sociological dynamics of dependence?

  129. 129
    Morzer says:

    @cynn:

    I kinda feel that we are getting more into spit-roasting* territory with Billy Troll.

    *I use this term in its technical sense, of course.

  130. 130
    cynn says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: You have been declared a troll and are deleted.

  131. 131
    pika says:

    @General Stuck: “Listen, learn. No wank.” I. LOVE. THIS. You better patent it–now.

  132. 132

    @William Hurley:

    That you think it is speaks to your own inability to view the political landscape with any semblance of realism.

    Lemme run that through the trusty ole troll decoder device. Yup, what I thought. Comes up “GOP ratfucker” every time.

  133. 133
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @cynn: But, Ma, I was just tryin’ to fit in.

  134. 134
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Jenny explained it in her first post: “See, Jane Hamsher was right, Warren would make a “terrible” Senator.”

    Jenny is a flaming Firebagger. That’s why I told her to try harder, I like seeing Calamity Jane’s Ass Hamsters of the Apocalypse hard at work.

    They’re industrious little whiners.

    @Morzer:

    Fight those defamation troll suits, don’t pay up!

  135. 135
    piratedan says:

    taking bets on Bill’s countertops…… current odds on granite is 7 to 2 for.

  136. 136
    Comrade Kevin says:

    It’s fascinating, how someone can seem to think that the President can force someone into a confirmation hearing for a job they have publicly stated they didn’t want to go through confirmation hearings for. It’s almost like they’re not arguing in good faith. Naw, that can’t be it.

  137. 137
    Morzer says:

    @General Stuck:

    I get “GOP self-fucker” when I scan Billy the Skidmark. Which generation is your troll-dar?

  138. 138
    Morzer says:

    @piratedan:

    Probably Iranian granite imported by Koch Industries under a false name.

  139. 139
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Morzer: GOP ratfucker or GOP self-fucker? 9/10 people can’t tell the difference in blind taste tests.

  140. 140
    cynn says:

    Again, what is it with the Trollspotting?

  141. 141
    wilfred says:

    I can’t see this debate but what exactly are Warren’s positions on foreign policy matters. I mean, have we become such an empire that the Senate has conceded all such matters to the Emperor?

    Things like the GWOT, funding of ongoing wars, suporting Saleh in Yemen and the Saudi monarchy, the impending veto of the Palestinian resolution in the UN, Gitmo, trials of detainees.

    All kinds of stuff. I never hear anything about that. Were the candidates asked questions like that?

  142. 142
    mpbruss says:

    Just got back from the debate (live, baby!) and Warren acquitted herself well. There were a couple questions that I thought she could have handled better but she didn’t make any major mistakes and she has a presence above and beyond the other candidates. Calling the rest of the primary challengers “good to excellent,” in this context, is a pretty obvious example of trolling.

    Conroy looks the part but isn’t nearly ready for primetime; I couldn’t repeat back to you a single memorable thing he said (aside from talking about his walking tour or Mass). DeFranco and Robinson have no chance whatsoever of winning a primary (any primary), let alone facing off against Brown. I liked Massie a bit and Khazei a lot, but they don’t have the name recognition or the clout that Warren has.

    Warren is already polling in the statistical margin or error against Scott Brown and 1/3 of the people in MA don’t even know who she is. Obama will stump for her, every Democrat in the world will endorse her, and Scott Brown is going 3 and out. I already consider that a safe bet.

  143. 143
    amk says:

    @William Hurley: spoken like a true gop leaning firebagger troll.

  144. 144
    Morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Sir, I resent your imposing this sort of repellent and indecorous image onto my cerebral cortex. I may be compelled to retire to my study and view some elevating and artistic visual media involving a former half-term governor of Alaska, a bridge and three billy goats in order to cleanse my soul.

  145. 145
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Judas Escargot:

    Give him a few, he’s looking one up. Did I tell you that my schlong is the diameter of a beer can and two feet long?

    Trust me, this is the internet so you know I’m not lying.

    @Mnemosyne:

    She ‘hooked’ me…lol! I wonder if Jenny is DougJ?

    @cynn:

    I think the law refers to it as “kettling” as they are trying to bring the crowd to a boil so they can bust some heads.

  146. 146
    cynn says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: As always, too much info.

  147. 147
    Morzer says:

    Amusing signs of Anyone But Mittensism:

    Herman Cain gets the top spot in three new surveys of GOP voters from Public Policy Polling (D), conducted in North Carolina, West Virginia and Nebraska.
    “In 4 years at PPP I’ve never been as befuddled by a set of polls as this past weekend’s,” PPP pollster Tom Jensen tweeted on Monday. “Cain/Newt to top of GOP field out of nowhere?”

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo......hp?ref=fpb

  148. 148
    mpbruss says:

    To answer the question at 141, only one foreign policy question was presented to the candidates and it regarded Afghanistan. All the candidates agreed that the job was done and we should withdraw as soon as possible. Two candidates proposed timeframes within 12 months, without much in the way of details. Warren scored points with the crowd by pointing out that Iraq was funded with deficit spending, and saying in effect that any war we are not willing to budget for should not be fought.

  149. 149
    William Hurley says:

    @desraye:

    Indeed, given Obama’s unwillingness to spend some political capital on a nominee who was likely the most qualified candidate available, period, leaving his status to languish for month after month, he himself chose to end the charade since Obama was unwilling to press for his nomination or end it himself – you know – leadership type stuff.

    Seriously, from his April 2010 nomination to his withdrawal over a year later, Obama did nothing.

  150. 150
    Svensker says:

    @wilfred:

    I can’t see this debate but what exactly are Warren’s positions on foreign policy matters. I mean, have we become such an empire that the Senate has conceded all such matters to the Emperor?

    No one cares anymore. That stuff is so early 2000s. As long as we keep giving money to Israel, no one is interested in that stuff. Right now, domestic issues are all the rage.

    I would guess Warren is a reasonable lefty and probably not a particular war monger. But there is only pro-Israel or super-pro-Israel in US politics now — there are no other options possible in this climate.

  151. 151
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @cynn:

    It’s a sport of sorts here. Arguing against it is pissing in the wind.

  152. 152
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Dude, there’s a reason that Jenny put “trim our regulations down” and “terrible” in quotes. The Snark is strong with this one.

    Check Jenny’s posting history. She’s come to bury Hamsher, not to praise her.

  153. 153
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?

  154. 154
    amk says:

    @Morzer: as stewart said to the repub base , ‘you people are crazy’.

  155. 155
    Shawn in ShowMe says:

    @wilfred

    The military-industrial complex has been dictating U.S. foreign policy for almost 50 years.

  156. 156
    gwangung says:

    @Morzer: He speaks Wingnut English–it has just as little connection to reality. It’s just that the polarity is reversed.

  157. 157
    wilfred says:

    @148:

    I figured as much. Dead wogs are the collateral damage of partisan, identity politics.

    “Warren scored points with the crowd by pointing out that Iraq was funded with deficit spending, and saying in effect that any war we are not willing to budget for should not be fought.”

    Ahh, the sweet smell of pragmatic liberalism. Fuck morality, check the price tag.

  158. 158
    desraye says:

    @William Hurley:

    Was Obama supposed to used his magic wand or sprinkle fairy dust to get Elizabeth Warren confirmed?

  159. 159
    mpbruss says:

    @wilfred: Honestly, I understand it’s very important for some people to feel morally superior, it’s something I’ve been accused of myself, but if a utilitarian approach produces a morally preferable result, I don’t know what you’re complaining about.

  160. 160
    amk says:

    @wilfred: The loony left lost the morality war just because of snotty attitude. The holier-than-thou attitude coming from the left is ironic.

  161. 161
    Morzer says:

    @desraye:

    Please, don’t get Billy thinking about Obama’s magic wand, much less the size of his package. It’ll take the poor critter a whole month to unbunch his tighty-whities.

  162. 162
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @wilfred: The person you’re looking for doesn’t exist.

  163. 163
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley: Just out of curiosity, were those goalposts heavy when you moved them?

  164. 164
    William Hurley says:

    @Judas Escargot:

    Interesting – and laughably wrong.

    Too bad you never got the chance to go to the old Cantab Lounge to see “Little” Joe Cook cook. But then again, such a place couldn’t have existed because Cantabrigians aren’t really people, they’re a “Harvard” euphemism.

    I bet the gang at Charlie’s Tap would find your nonsense hilarious! So too the denizens of the Plough.

  165. 165
    William Hurley says:

    @Yutsano:

    You have a talent for the meaningless.

    Feel free to clarify a.k.a. compose a meaningful message.

  166. 166
    eemom says:

    STOP.

    STOP.

    I got a decent score on the LSAT, but even I can’t sort through this anymore. As the psychodad killer said in “The Stepfather”, we need some ORDER around here.

    Now. Paid RNC trolls to the right. True believing firebaggers to the left. Hamsherbots at eleven o’clock. Random middle schoolers, go to bed.

  167. 167
    Steeplejack says:

    @eemom:

    Will you tuck me in? And, oh, I like to have a story read to me.

  168. 168
    Morzer says:

    @eemom:

    FREEDOM! A la lanterne les aristos!

    Oh and hot cocoa for me, mommy.

  169. 169
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    Why are you sending transcripts of your internal monologue to Yutsano?

  170. 170
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    As has been pointed out before, Harvard students/graduates/professors simply don’t call themselves Cantabrigians. Not that you care about facts.

  171. 171
    Amir Khalid says:

    @wilfred:

    “Warren scored points with the crowd by pointing out that Iraq was funded with deficit spending, and saying in effect that any war we are not willing to budget for should not be fought.”
    __
    Ahh, the sweet smell of pragmatic liberalism. Fuck morality, check the price tag.

    As far as it goes, Warren is pretty much stating the obvious. But would she say that whether the US’ willingness to budget for a particular war ought to be the sole or main test of whether to fight that war? That would imply she leaves a judgement as to the necessity of fighting the war out of the test, which only an amoral person would do. And Elizabeth Warren would not strike a lot of people as amoral.

  172. 172
    William Hurley says:

    @Roger Moore:

    I missed nothing.

    The “threat” to filibuster isn’t actually a filibuster. It’s a threat.

    Instead of challenging the opposition, Obama caved. Considering the gross number of still unfilled positions, Obama and “o-bots” can whine about “obstruction” but the preponderance of evidence depicts a President who runs way from his “picks” faster than Clinton ran away from Lannie Guenier.

    Just ask Dawn Johnson. She, like Diamond, waited and waited and waited – putting life on hold for more than a year – while Obama vacillated, dawdled and in the end simply stopped caring. Being both politic and polite, Johnson, like Diamiond, decided to move with her life after her wasted year waiting for Obama to lead.

    And before you turn the whining up to 11, consider who was and who was not considered for recess appointments. Talk about folding! He won’t even use this legal wrinkle to fill the gaping holes in appointee positions, preferring to use this vehicle only with GOP approval. In an odd and cruel twist, some of the positions Obama hasn’t pushed to fill are still filled by Bush carry-overs.

  173. 173
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @William Hurley: If you’re going to use them, you should at least attempt to spell Dawn Johnsen’s and Lani Guinier’s names correctly.

  174. 174
    William Hurley says:

    @Morzer:

    Maybe I misread your post, or you mine.

    I have not identified Warren as being from Cambridge. I did, however, identify Cambridge as her place of work.

    Was it you who earlier questioned my proficiency with English?

  175. 175
    wilfred says:

    Weel, if being opposed to two wars that have killed or maimed hundreds of thousands of people for no apparent reason and being opposed to the next one makes someone morally superior than…

    @171:

    That’s a very Jesutical sounding comment from someone with a screen name like that. Given the recent hx of the Senate and country, I would have preferred a direct question and forthright answer. It’s not Warren’s fault the question wasn’t asked but her answer seems weasely to me.

  176. 176
    William Hurley says:

    @Comrade Kevin:

    Will do.

    Still, my minor mistake mislabeling names has no bearing on my arguments.

  177. 177
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @William Hurley: He’s talking about you, you dolt.

  178. 178
    William Hurley says:

    @lol:

    Yet again, proof that reading and comprehension are two parts of a common function. Please brush up on the latter – then reread the article.

  179. 179
    lol says:

    @William Hurley:

    So Harry Reid should shut down the Senate for three days to find out if each and every filibuster threat is genuine?

    Even unsuccessful filibusters succeed in tying the Senate up for several days. You can use it on every. single. item. before. the. senate and it costs nothing to do it. Real life doesn’t work like the movies – no one has to stand around talking non-stop. One single person simply has to wait around and object to a motion for unanimous consent. There’s your modern filibuster.

  180. 180
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley:

    And before you turn the whining up to 11, consider who was and who was not considered for recess appointments.

    The Senate never recessed you idiot. Therefore no recess appointments. Did that even occur to you that just MAYBE that wasn’t an option?

  181. 181
    lol says:

    @William Hurley:

    There’s a letter from 44 Republicans clearly stating that they’ll oppose any nominee for Director and demand that Obama castrate the Director’s power within the agency.

    That’s accompanied by some wishful baseless speculation that because they’ve moved beyond merely opposing her as Director to opposing the agency’s existence that means something something something they’ve changed position so that’s good news!

    Utter nonsense.

    The only question is whether you’re dumb for thinking we’d fall for the faulty reasoning in this article or whether you’re dumb because you already fell for the faulty reasoning in the article.

  182. 182
    eemom says:

    @William Hurley:

    Was it you who earlier questioned my proficiency with English?

    I do b’lieve that was a unanimous consensus amongst all people, living or dead, who have ever laid eyes upon this blog. But I’m cool with giving Morzie the credit.

  183. 183
    Amir Khalid says:

    @wilfred:
    What exactly is Warren weaseling out of? The question wasn’t asked, as, you say, so she didn’t get to answer it. Without that answer, you’re just guessing at how hawkish she is on war.

    ETA: Jesuitical? Moi?

  184. 184
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    I also question your intelligence, parentage, sexual stamina and moral character. Happy now?

  185. 185
    William Hurley says:

    @Judas Escargot:

    You first. I long ago learned to be judicious when sharing personal information on mediums like this – lessons I need not learn twice.

  186. 186
    William Hurley says:

    @Morzer:

    Shouldn’t you understand a thing before you question it?

    You have mighty thin-skin. Former Obama Admin staffer per chance?

  187. 187
    Yutsano says:

    @William Hurley:

    Shouldn’t you understand a thing before you question it?

    BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

    Okay that sells it. You’re a performance artist. Now go away while you still have a shred of credibility.

  188. 188
    William Hurley says:

    @lol:

    Again, try getting assistance comprehending the article.

    There’s a politician who once equated a mandate requiring all citizens to buy health insurance as impractical, costly and a dubious legal requirement burdening regular Americans. That politician ultimately chose to disregard himself and institute a mandate at the first chance he had.

    So, as you can see, there’s political rhetoric and political action.

    Obama’s insta-fold in the face of rhetoric is the picture of political cowardice – costly political cowardice at that.

  189. 189
    William Hurley says:

    @Yutsano:

    Believe what you need to, it’s your one and only “trick”.

    Never-the-less, the dullness you display here is harmless since I expect you’ll stumble into making the right voting choices on election day. Through I’d advise you to have a hanky close by when you see the totals for the Presidential race. It’s truly sad to see people like you who suffer a self-imposed blindness of Tea Party-quality cripple the Democratic Party’s chances to nominate an electable Presidential candidate. Sad and tragic, for the nation, that is.

  190. 190
    Judas Escargot says:

    @William Hurley:

    You first. I long ago learned to be judicious when sharing personal information on mediums like this – lessons I need not learn twice.

    So I suppose ass pictures are out of the question, then?

  191. 191
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Morzer:

    That he forgot that he was the subject of who was from where and the name they use in referring to themselves as citizens of that city is a good indicator that he loses his train of thought from paragraph to paragraph. That or his reading comprehension is much lower than he thinks it is.

    I hope they aren’t paying him too much for the ratfuck op because it’s wasted money at this joint.

    Which is good.

  192. 192
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I’m telling you, if you read William Hurley in the voice of Dr. Smith from “Lost in Space” at his most arch, it all makes perfect sense. David Ogden Stiers as Winchester in MASH works almost as well.

  193. 193
    Morzer says:

    @William Hurley:

    Nope, just a humble troll-kicker, toiling in the fields of public satire. Is it cold and lonely under the rickety-rackety ratfuck bridge to nowhere?

  194. 194
    Morzer says:

    @Judas Escargot:

    You can’t possibly expect Billy-Bob-Beauregard Hurley de Romney to take pictures while talking out of his sacred orifice.

  195. 195
    Jebediah says:

    @William Hurley:
    Your writing is a little stilted, so I have to ask: do you consume electricity for sustenance? i.e are you AI?

    And thanks for caring, but we seem to have a pretty electable Dem candidate this time around.

    ETA: Who, other than Obama, do you see as an electable Dem candidate?

  196. 196
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @William Hurley:

    cripple the Democratic Party’s chances to nominate an electable Presidential candidate

    Yeah, if only we had all voted for Kucinich in ’08.

    You really have to be a parody.

  197. 197
    Mnemosyne says:

    @William Hurley:

    It’s truly sad to see people like you who suffer a self-imposed blindness of Tea Party-quality cripple the Democratic Party’s chances to nominate an electable Presidential candidate.

    Yep, there’s no one who’s automatically less electable than the incumbent. We’re so glad to have someone with your keen political acumen and insight here.

  198. 198
    eemom says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    please don’t overlook his formidable writing skilz. He wields the word as capably as a sword.

  199. 199
    Jebediah says:

    @eemom:

    please don’t overlook his formidable writing skilz. He wields the word as capably as a sword.

    Yes, a cardboard sword with fancy filigree and curlicues drawn on with a Sharpie.

  200. 200
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Jebediah:

    You forgot to mention the aluminum foil he wrapped around it to make it look real.

    Kids. Maybe he thinks he’s a pirate? If he says “Arrrr… matey”, then that settles it.

Comments are closed.