Maybe This One Won’t Go Away

Interesting:

Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said on Wednesday that the Internal Affairs Bureau will look into the decision of a high-ranking officer to use pepper spray on a number of female protesters at an Occupy Wall Street demonstration on Saturday.

***

The video, which has been posted on YouTube and the Web sites of numerous news organizations, shows a deputy inspector walking up to a group of women standing on the sidewalk behind the orange netting and shooting pepper spray at them. Then footage then shows the deputy inspector, who has been identified as Anthony Bologna, walking away.

Commissioner Kelly said he had seen video of the pepper spraying only on a television newscast, and questioned whether the snippet he saw offered enough context to evaluate what occurred.

***

“I don’t know what precipitated that specific incident,” he said, but added that demonstrators as a group were engaged in “tumultuous conduct” and were “intent on blocking traffic” as they marched down University Place on their return from Union Square to the financial district, where the protesters have been encamped for more than a week.

You gotta love the specious bullshit at the end there. First, all you need to see is the 2 minute snippet to understand that Bologna walked up to a group of penned folks, sprayed his mace all over them without even giving warning or letting the other cops know, for no reason, then nonchalantly slinked away like a coward. There’s really nothing more to it. It doesn’t matter what other demonstrators were doing, it doesn’t matter if someone somewhere else was engaged in “tumultuous conduct,” etc. None of that matters a bit, and shows a mentality of collective punishment and brutality we’ve all grown to accept in this country. Who gives a shit what other people were doing, Commissioner Kelly? Those people weren’t doing anything, and your whiteshirt thug walked up to them and maced them. Period. End of story.

Kelly’s comments indicate he is part of the problem.

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231 replies
  1. 1
    David Fud says:

    I agree with Lawrence O. I’ll believe it when I see it. Just because he had to react to being asked some questions about it doesn’t mean that it will be remembered when the multi-year investigation is finished.

  2. 2
    singfoom says:

    Well, that’s positive news. No commanding officer is going to be positive about doing that sort of thing, and will always question the context, but at least something is happening.

    Perhaps the very fact that they’re willing to investigate (who knows what the outcome will be) will be a marker to other police who might think of doing similar things.

  3. 3
    John Dillinger says:

    Now just imagine if those had been Tea party types outside of Congress.

  4. 4
    Bulworth says:

    Well, the claim that these ferocious women were “intent on blocking traffic” pretty much settles it, doesn’t it? Sure, they were penned up in their “Free Speech Zone” but it’s possible they might have gotten out of said pen. If they had, all civilization would have been at risk.

  5. 5
    Zifnab says:

    Maybe This One Won’t Go Away

    No thanks to the NYPD. You’ve got MSNBC willing to start beating the drum and that’s definitely driving a PR concern. But the police administration isn’t going to lift one more finger than it absolutely has to on this.

  6. 6
    Trentrunner says:

    While there’s enough police brutality to go around, let’s not overlook the fact that the victims here were female.

    So Bologna is a misogynist fuckwit bully.

  7. 7
    Carnacki says:

    Kelly might be part of the problem for the hippies, you know Americans acting in a legal manner, but he’s part of the solution for the powerful working to keep us down.

  8. 8
    AndoChronic says:

    A second incident/ video surfaced today as well. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....85432.html

  9. 9
    Stav says:

    Oops, he did it again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....ture=share

    The guy is a complete sicko. In this video he walks up behind a blue shirt cop and two people walking away from him and sprays them all. Seriously needs help and a suspension.

  10. 10
    beltane says:

    @John Dillinger: If even a single, gun waving teabagger had been maced the Republicans would have demanded a Congressional investigation over the incident. If any of these women had been armed they wouldn’t be alive right now.

  11. 11
    singfoom says:

    @Trentrunner: This is true, but I don’t think the gender of the victims here matters. Women and Men are putting themselves on the line equally at Occupy Wall Street.

    I’m less offended that he did what he did to women, and more that they were kettled and helpless…

  12. 12
    singfoom says:

    @Stav: Jesus, that’s awful. The guy is seriously out of control. I hope this comes up as well when they investigate the other incident and it helps get the guy kicked the fuck off the force.

    That’s not serving and protecting shit.

  13. 13
    Stav says:

    Since we both posted versions of the second Bologna vide simultaneously, I thought I would add that here is the place to complain about Bologna’s cowardly actions: http://www.nyc.gov/html/ccrb/

  14. 14
    dave says:

    He’s a pig, a pig, a pig a pig, A really big, a really big pig, pig, pig, pig, PIG.

    Bologna!

  15. 15
    B W Smith says:

    Kelly may very well be part of the problem, but he likes his good PR image. He was prideful on 60 Minutes about what he has created in NYC. If there is enough outcry about this one cop, Bologna, Kelly’s not going to let some lower ranking beat cop mess up his PR image. If the story goes away quickly, Bologna will be unscathed. If the story escalates and hurts Kelly’s image, he’ll throw Tony under the bus.

  16. 16
    beltane says:

    If it hadn’t been for Anonymous releasing this guy’s identity there wouldn’t be any drumbeat for action. They are the only reason there will be an investigation at all.

  17. 17
    Jerome says:

    There will be no real investigation. There will be no real punishment. The people tasked with monitoring the behaviour of Law Enforcement are Law Enforcement, and nothing will be done about it.

    These officers should be going to *jail*. They should be pleading out against assault charges. Instead, they’ll be quietly forgotten, and nothing will be done.

  18. 18
    Stefan says:

    but added that demonstrators as a group were engaged in “tumultuous conduct” and were “intent on blocking traffic” as they marched down University Place

    My god, the monsters. The monsters. That settles it for me — pepper spray ’em all and let God sort ’em out.

    For those who don’t know, University Place runs only about seven blocks long, or roughly one-third of a mile, until it dead-ends at Washington Square Park. It doesn’t even have that much traffic to block as it’s not a through street.

  19. 19
    Cat Lady says:

    Protesters need moar Gadsden flags.

  20. 20
    Tony J says:

    If virtually every case of police brutality I can think of from this side of the Atlatic is anything to go on, the very worst that will happen to this officer is that he’ll have to wait a year, eighteen months maybe, for the NYPD’s internal investigation to decide that his actions, while regretable, do not, when understood in context, constitute enough of an offence for any further action to proceed.

    Shit. Over here gung-ho Police thugs can kill innocent bystanders and get away with it because, y’know, maybe the officer did over-react, but that’s only because all those DFHs kettled behind steel fences put him in existential fear of his life!

  21. 21
    Corner Stone says:

    I think it’s amazing that people see these individuals being “kettled” and that isn’t the most outrageous shit.

  22. 22
    Winston Smith says:

    My wife is an ex-cop. Her take is that the rationalizations are standard boilerplate. That’s the department CYA. Of course they aren’t admitting anything wrong was done. You wouldn’t if you were in their shoes either.

    She notes the fact that IAB is on it shows that they are taking it seriously. Looking at the video, she saw a guy who thinks that he is exempt from the rules and fears no reprisals for this behavior. A well-run department (and that’s an open question here) doesn’t want this guy in their ranks. This is the guy who maces a few protesters with impunity today and ends up shooting an innocent person tomorrow.

    The public pressure is working — so we need to keep it up.

  23. 23
    Stefan says:

    Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly said on Wednesday that the Internal Affairs Bureau will look into the decision of a high-ranking officer to use pepper spray on a number of female protesters at an Occupy Wall Street demonstration on Saturday.

    Nice that IA is looking into it, but why hasn’t Bologna been arrested? There’s clear evidence of him wilfully and maliciously assaulting several New Yorkers on the street. The DA needs to file charges against this guy, right quick.

  24. 24
    Ziggy says:

    This is the same Chief Raymond Kelly who claims to have the capability to “take down a plane” if need be. *Good thing his judgment is top notch.

    http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/.....necessary/

    *this is sarcasm in case it needs to be said.

  25. 25
    Corner Stone says:

    Maybe instead of donating money for pizzas we should be buying these protestors tri-corner hats to wear.

  26. 26
    AndoChronic says:

    @Stav: Right on!

  27. 27
    comrade scott's agenda of rage says:

    @Winston Smith:

    This. My dad was a 30+ year cop. If there’s enough public and media pressure (I’m choking on the thought of that last bit) over the long term, the Dept won’t have any choice but to exercise due diligence on the matter.

    Remember, Rodney King would have gotten the shit beat out of him and nothing would have happened if it weren’t for video and the fact that enough people (and media outlets) got outraged.

  28. 28
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @Jerome:

    There will be no real investigation. There will be no real punishment. The people tasked with monitoring the behaviour of Law Enforcement are Law Enforcement, and nothing will be done about it.

    Heck, if you watch enough cop shows you see that the IAB cops are the real bad guys, because they are harassing good cops just trying to do their job.

  29. 29
    dave says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I’m outraged! Shit man, I don’t know why those women were kettled EXCEPT TO INVITE SOME FUCKING COP TO COME ALONG AND MACE THEM.

    I mean, fuck. Cops are doing to people now what Israel has done to the Gaza strip.

    I dunno, I want fucking blood.

  30. 30
    Amir Khalid says:

    I can think of one good reason for the commissioner not to admit Tony Baloney’s guilt right off the bat: this might be seen as potentially prejudicing the police inquiry. If the inquiry panel were to wind up recommending disciplinary action or even criminal charges, Tony’s lawyer (and of course he’s lawyered up by now) might be able to exploit any such words from the commish to appeal against the disciplinary action; or, in court, to justify a motion to dismiss the charge against his fine, upstanding, wouldn’t-hurt-a-fly, long-serving public servant of a client.

  31. 31
    PurpleGirl says:

    @John Dillinger: A teapartier wouldn’t be pepper sprayed, even holding a gun/rifle. We know this — a number of teapartier have brought guns to rallies and town hall meetings and nothing happens to them.

  32. 32
    AndoChronic says:

    @Cat Lady: The Anarcho-syndicalism flag is our Gadsden flag!

  33. 33
    Citizen_X says:

    @AndoChronic: @Stav: This Lt. Bologna can’t be trusted with so much as a nightstick. He has no fire discipline whatsoever. Look at the slow-motion video: he’s spraying wildly, as soon as his arm starts coming up–when his arm is only at about a 45 degree angle to the ground. He probably even sprayed the cop in front of him on the arm.

  34. 34
    beltane says:

    @Corner Stone: The kettling really is the appalling part. People who want to exercise their supposedly sacrosanct rights of free speech and assembly must first forfeit their rights to free speech and assembly. I guess some parts of the Bill of Rights are more equal than other parts. Or maybe anyone to the left of David Brooks does not have the same Constitutional rights as the 2nd Amendment remedy folks.

  35. 35
    Chris says:

    @Winston Smith:

    Comforting to know that IA’s on it, though as someone else noted above, the absolute laxness with which police brutality seems to be treated in this country is enough to make anyone despair.

    The public pressure is working—so we need to keep it up.

    This.

  36. 36
    AndoChronic says:

    @Citizen_X: No muzzle awareness or finger etiquette at all. Do’in the ‘ol “Barney Fife”, or “Rambo” depending on how you look at it.

  37. 37
    Chris says:

    @comrade scott’s agenda of rage:

    Remember, Rodney King would have gotten the shit beat out of him and nothing would have happened if it weren’t for video and the fact that enough people (and media outlets) got outraged.

    This.

    Frankly, it’d be nice if this kind of public pressure was a permanent enough thing (rather than just something that flares up now and then when there’s absolute and irrefutable proof of someone crossing the line by several hundred miles) to deter police brutality in the first place, rather than occasionally punish it after the fact.

  38. 38
    Corner Stone says:

    @dave:

    I’m outraged!

    Thank you! That’s one. Who else is with dave and me on this?

  39. 39
    Citizen_X says:

    @Cat Lady: Fuck the tea partiers. The Gadsden flag is an American flag; it belongs to the DFHs as much as the tea party types.

    Half the time I see a righty flying one of those, I feel like saying, “Yeah? Well don’t fucking tread on me either.”

  40. 40
    jwest says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    Of course a Tea Party member carrying a weapon isn’t going to be maced. The police would need to be crazy to try that.

    On the other hand, any band of dirty hippies is begging to be sprayed.

  41. 41
    The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik says:

    All I’ll say is that this really does stress the importance of citizen video as well as the power of viral video.

    Which is probably why so many state police depts. want to criminalize videotaping cops on duty, probably.

  42. 42
    Elie says:

    Of also important significance, more articles and coverage are starting to appear in the media on the whole “occupy Wall Street” thing. That is MAJOR AWESOME, to me and what we want as much as the making a Bologna sandwich. We need to keep building it and building “IT”. If that happens, Bologna will be pulled right into that vortex of attention…

    Just my take anyway

  43. 43
    Chris says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    A teapartier wouldn’t be pepper sprayed, even holding a gun/rifle. We know this—a number of teapartier have brought guns to rallies and town hall meetings and nothing happens to them.

    That was my first thought too upon watching the Wall Street protests.

    It’s a very old double standard in this country that conservative mobs, peaceful or violent, can get away with damn near anything and the government’ll just chuckle and shake its head going “oh jeez, boys’ll be boys.” While liberal mobs are treated as a full-blown national security crisis even when they’re explicitly nonviolent and have never posed a threat and show no sign of posing one any time soon.

    Hence, MLK and the entire civil rights movement gets put on J. Edgar Hoover’s COINTELPRO target list, while the feds turn a blind eye to the KKK for close to a hundred years.

  44. 44
    Culture of Truth says:

    Actually, I’m glad Kelly said that, because it suggests that he thinks actions like blocking traffic might justify applying pepper spray to others remotely associated with them, but necessarily, even more so, spraying and macing people blocking traffic and other disruptive behaviors is appropriate. So that’s helpful.

  45. 45
    Tony J says:

    @efgoldman:

    Plus its a terrific, new (to me) use of the verb that I hadn’t seen before.

    The theory is that ‘kettling’ protestors lets them do their hippy, anarchist street-performance in secure areas where the Police will be on hand to remove any troublemakers who would otherwise be free to hijack their protest to commit property damage. They can ‘let off steam’ without it causing a public-order problem.

    The truth is that it puts all the protestors in a cage where they can be photographed and identified by those who keep track of such things, while giving those police officers who might be so inclined free rein to indulge their need to taunt, threaten and assault anyone they damn well feel like.

    Shorter me – Kettling means the Police get to let off steam, not the protestors.

  46. 46
    Ruckus says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Been outraged for years. So I’ll join in. That’s 3.

    But according to some on this blog I’m a cop hater so you may not want me on your side.

  47. 47
    Amir Khalid says:

    I’ve just been reading up on a few high-profile NYPD brutality cases in Wikipedia — Amadou Diallo, Sean Bell, Abner Louima. Precedent, in regard to cops actually getting punished, does not seem encouraging, except maybe in Louima’s case.

  48. 48
    Elie says:

    @Corner Stone:

    do you also want “blood” like dave mentions in his comment?

    Be careful, Corner. That is not a trivial thing to “want”, no?

    Or are you just your usual thoughtless, reckless asshole self?

  49. 49
    Culture of Truth says:

    Agreed, without the video, less than nothing would happen. By which I mean, free drinks for Tony. But Tony may yet be under the proverbial bus, because he violated the cardinal rule.

    Don’t get caught.

  50. 50
    AndoChronic says:

    @Chris: It’s because we are smart, hold advanced degrees, and have influential careers. This is why they are scared of us!

  51. 51
    Dead Duck Fucking says:

    Corner Stone: My outrage has been depleted due to overuse.

    No, sorry it has been depleated due to over-ironing, as kettling still pisses me off.

  52. 52
    Kola Noscopy says:

    Commissioner Kelly said he had seen video of the pepper spraying only on a television newscast, and questioned whether the snippet he saw offered enough context to evaluate what occurred.

    FIVE days later and the motherfucker hasn’t even begun to look into it. He needs to be fired too.

  53. 53
    beltane says:

    @Culture of Truth: Would this apply to bad drivers also? They do tend to block traffic on occasion. Maybe pepper spray would improve their driving skills so they don’t block traffic any more.

  54. 54
    geg6 says:

    How unfortunate for Commissioner Kelly that this had to happen at the same time that he was getting a fact- and context-free tongue bath on 60 Minutes. Kinda ruins the lovely glow a bit, doesn’t it?

    Fuck Kelly. He’s a thug, too.

  55. 55
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Elie:
    Concur. John Cole was originally skeptical that anything at all would come out of this protest. So were many commenters here, with good reason I think: street protests like this get little if any attention. But this unfortunate macing and the media attention it’s got have made the protest an unexpected success. Now that they’ve got some attention, as Susan Sarandon advised them, they need to figure out some kind of next step. It would be a shame not to build on this.

  56. 56
    daveNYC says:

    @beltane:

    Would this apply to bad drivers also? They do tend to block traffic on occasion. Maybe pepper spray would improve their driving skills so they don’t block traffic any more.

    Up until recently, they got points if they blocked the box. I suspect some of them would have prefered the pepper spray.

  57. 57
    Cermet says:

    First, all Cops are utter liars when they break the law and cover their own asses (no surprise since like most people, they cover their asses.)
    Second, all other Cops associated with them are liars making sure to cover everyone asses (unlike most people in the real world, we don’t do that shit.)
    Third: all Cops, with nearly zero exceptions, are complete supporters of our insane drug legal system and activity support and exploit this fuc$ed up system with no remorse or with any moral reservation. This carries over into most areas of enforcement making most of these so-called keepers of the peace into thugs.

    In sum, with very few exceptions – Cops are simple minded police state enforcement pigs with power trips inversely related to their physical dick size; unlike what big dicks most are – again, thanks to our insane legal system that corrupts cops more than criminals. In summery, we have gotten the police state the thugs always wanted by losers who can’t wait to get power trips on enforcing immoral laws while never being smart enough to realize they are the tools really destroying our democracy.
    Aside – I grew up in an extented family of cops and prosectuctors.

  58. 58
    Culture of Truth says:

    @beltane: If I could pepper spray people blocking the tunnel, the Hudson would be a damm bloody mary.

  59. 59
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @beltane:

    If it hadn’t been for Anonymous releasing this guy’s identity there wouldn’t be any drumbeat for action. They are the only reason there will be an investigation at all.

    Absolutely right. But don’t look for affirmation of that from the authoritarian cool kids at BJ. They hate Julian Assange too, cause he has greasy hair or something…and doesn’t always wear a suit and tie.

  60. 60
    Elie says:

    @Amir Khalid:

    Totally agree. Have been sending links around to my more oblivious friends and relatives. Its a very important juncture and I hope that we can build on it without falling into any unforced errors or booby traps. Big, peaceful, energetic and motivated crowds is what we want. Some idea on strategy would be good but still not essential yet. People are tired and they are showing their solidarity with each other and their rights as citizens for peaceful assembly and free speech. I think it will shape itself as it evolves… make its own leaders too.

  61. 61
    Winston Smith says:

    @beltane:

    Would this apply to bad drivers also? They do tend to block traffic on occasion. Maybe pepper spray would improve their driving skills so they don’t block traffic any more.

    I like where this is going.

  62. 62
    Swishalicious says:

    Wait wait wait… the cop’s name is TONY BALONEY?!

    Also too this is totally disgusting.

  63. 63
    jwest says:

    Have you noticed that when Tea Party people get together (even in groups of 100,000 or more), everyone is pleasant, peaceful and they leave the venue cleaner than they found it? In contrast, any small group of leftists seems to cause property damage, public disturbances and leave a cloud of filth everywhere they go.

    Steven Hanks is now the poster boy for left wing civility. What a sad commentary on an entire ideology.

  64. 64
    geg6 says:

    @Elie:

    As far as I can see, it’s only been on MSNBC.

    I watched all three local newscasts here and nada. Watched the CBS News last night and CBS Morning Show this morning. Not a word. Zero and zilch. Hell, TPM isn’t covering it as far as I can tell.

    And, believe me, that was more torture than it was worth. I have no idea what the other networks are saying (and I’m not subjecting myself to it), but not even the students here are aware of any of this. I know because I’ve made it my business to ask.

  65. 65
    Pliny says:

    When cops can flat-out murder people on video and not even be charged (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnKLEOXenow), who the fuck thinks anything will come of this?

  66. 66
    B W Smith says:

    @Kola Noscopy: That’s complete and utter bullshit that he’s not seen full detailed information. His security project has cameras everywhere in NYC that can pull up a given street address and view what happened or that’s at least what was claimed on 60 Minutes. Kelly’s dancing, hoping this shit disappears. As I said if this makes Kelly look bad and doesn’t go away…Tony is toast. Not because it’s the right thing to do but because, as someone said upthread, he got caught.

  67. 67
    geg6 says:

    @Cermet:

    all Cops, with nearly zero exceptions, are complete supporters of our insane drug legal system and activity support and exploit this fuc$ed up system with no remorse or with any moral reservation. This carries over into most areas of enforcement making most of these so-called keepers of the peace into thugs.

    Bullshit. I know plenty of cops who think the so-called drug war is a joke. There are bad cops and good cops. In my experience, the good outweigh the bad. The problem is that the bad ones wreak havoc and the good ones have little choice but stand back and watch them do it unless they are willing to become Frank Serpico. And few cops with mortgages, wives/husbands, and children can afford to do that.

  68. 68
    Citizen_X says:

    @jwest:

    Have you noticed that when Tea Party people get together…everyone is pleasant, peaceful and they leave the venue cleaner than they found it?

    No.

    (even in groups of 100,000 or more)

    Oh, we’re talking imaginary Tea Partiers. Sorry, carry on!

  69. 69
    Elie says:

    @geg6:

    It is making an appearance in the NYT and Huffington. Its not hogging the airwaves or anything, just starting to rise in awareness rather than going away. They have not been able to kill it with lack of coverage alone, which is good. It will have to continue to grow, of course. We will see. I think that getting that reaction from Kelly is indicative of increased attention as well, don’t you?. We will see.

  70. 70
    Ruckus says:

    @Elie:
    There is a large difference between being outraged and wanting blood. Grand Canyon sized difference. But is seems where cops are concerned people seem to be either happy go lucky no concern at all or blood lust. That’s a very narrow brush to paint a fairly complex issue.

  71. 71
    singfoom says:

    @jwest: Yeah, I remember how they were peaceful and pleasant to the Democratic House members who walked through them.

    Up your game, that’s a sad old tired meme that’s been debunked throughly.

  72. 72
    kindness says:

    Am I alone in thinking that some of NY’s finest are trying to get the picketers to over-react to their heavy handedness in hopes of being able to then quash the protest with undue force? I mean, there isn’t any other real explaination for the violence that the cops (and particularly the upper management (white shirts)) have shown?

  73. 73
    joes527 says:

    I dunno.

    Kelly’s comment sounds like boilerplate PR speak for “I don’t know how this will go down, so I’m leaving my options open.”

    If they think they can ride over the whole thing, then Tony is in no danger. If this situation looks to be a bigger pain in the ass than firing him, then he will get thrown under the bus.

    No one will look at how a sociopath rises to the rank of Lt, and what that says about the force as a whole.

    Sociopaths are cheap. If they throw him under the bus, there will be 5 new Tony Baloneys vying to take his place.

  74. 74
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Citizen_X:
    In jwest’s defense, it’s undeniably true that imaginary Tea Party protesters don’t leave real trash behind.

  75. 75
    singfoom says:

    @kindness: No, I don’t think so. That’s a standard tactic. The police are part of the 99% as well though, and I think the protest organizers have said repeatedly that they don’t view the police as the enemy.

  76. 76
    jwest says:

    @singfoom:

    Is that when Tea Party people yelled the “N” word and spit on black members of congress?

    It’s amazing someone as naïve as you can still afford to be on the internet.

  77. 77
    techno says:

    This reminds me of one of my favorite sayings from the 60s, “There is no situation so desperate or dangerous that calling the cops won’t make it worse.”

  78. 78
    beltane says:

    @Elie: It must be getting plenty of attention in NYC because my FB feed (NYers in their early 40s) has become non-stop Occupy Wall St/We are the 99%.

  79. 79
    Elie says:

    @Ruckus:

    It was not my comment, ruckus. I was asking Corner Stone, and maybe you as well, whether your supported dave’s entire comment. His last sentence stated that he wanted blood. go check for yourself.

    Yes, there is a world of difference. We need to be, on this site and any others in the public domain, to be EXTREMELY careful and thoughtful in what we express. Hopefully, you are smart enough that I do not have to paint you a detailed picture of what is at stake and the risks. Do I?

  80. 80
    beltane says:

    @Amir Khalid: Imaginary TPers are also very civil, open-minded, intelligent people. I like the imaginary teabaggers, the real ones not so much.

  81. 81
    Chris says:

    @kindness:

    Am I alone in thinking that some of NY’s finest are trying to get the picketers to over-react to their heavy handedness in hopes of being able to then quash the protest with undue force? I mean, there isn’t any other real explaination for the violence that the cops (and particularly the upper management (white shirts)) have shown?

    Quite likely.

    Civil rights protestors learned early that you couldn’t afford to respond in kind no matter what provocation was offered. It’s a disgusting double standard, but it remains the standard.

  82. 82
    RossInDetroit says:

    @Swishalicious:

    Wait wait wait… the cop’s name is TONY BALONEY?!

    My thought exactly.
    Parents, don’t let your children taunt other kids at school. They might grow up to be pricks with a chip on their shoulder.

  83. 83
    Suffern ACE says:

    Hopefully justice will be done and the people who are illegally taping the police will taken to court.

  84. 84
    singfoom says:

    @jwest: Hey buddy, I don’t know anything about any epithets, nor did I say anything about it.

    Here, here’s a tea party crowd being ‘pleasant and peaceful’: youtube

    I’ll be awaiting your apology, but I won’t hold my breath. Up your troll game.

  85. 85

    @beltane:

    Look, the pepper spray is unconscionable, and Bologna should be tossed off the NYPD and prosecuted for his actions, but it isn’t as if they were kettling the protestors off of a planned, legal parade route- they were in the streets in Manhattan traffic!

    Bitch all you want about free speech, but this isn’t a free speech issue. It’s a matter of obtaining a parade permit, it’s a matter of the city closing off streets and avenues so that no one gets hurt. Without a parade permit, the demonstrators were going to be redirected and/or detained. It’s a matter of civil disobedience. The organizers knew this. The cops knew this. You know this. Don’t be disingenuous about it.

  86. 86
    Culture of Truth says:

    The protest has been the lead story on local news, including local Fox.

  87. 87
    Elie says:

    @kindness:

    That is one scenario of course… a type of pitfall we would like to avoid if at all possible, both for moral and strategic reasons. This was why non violence was so central to the civil rights movement under MLK. You have to stay morally above reproach and hold to the highest standards or they win.

  88. 88
    Elie says:

    @singfoom:

    Oh just leave it alone, sing. Leave it alone.

  89. 89
    Mack Lyons says:

    @kindness: You’re right on the money. Get the liberal protesters to overreact so the cops can crack down on some commie/hippy skulls.

    Meanwhile, it will probably take an act of terrorism from a Tea Party member for the police to even lift a finger against them, and even then the issue may end up being rationalized away.

  90. 90
    RossInDetroit says:

    If I was an 11D conspiracy theorist I might suspect someone of setting the Inspector up to do something outrageous and take a gentle fall into retirement.
    Why? Because otherwise the protests might have eventually gotten the media attention they wanted for their own goals.
    Now it’s all gonna be about a bad cop and the purpose of the protest is forgotten.
    Playin’ the media like a violin…

  91. 91
    joes527 says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): People stay out of the street in Manhattan?

    Look, I haven’t been there much, but the few time I have been there, things like sidewalks and stoplights seemed to be treated more as a suggestion than a rule.

  92. 92
    Elie says:

    @Mack Lyons:

    Forget about the Tea Party. We are up on “the stage” now. Its our show. Maybe different rules or not. But we are on and what happens we have to think about in terms of what benefits us. Tea party is so yesterday. They know it too.

  93. 93
    jaywillie says:

    So is this protest about Wall Street or police brutality? When a story about an incident from the protest becomes bigger than the protest, control of the message has been lost and the protest has been marginalized, because guess what no one is talking about: the dirty, unscrupulous behavior of Wall Street. And that’s a victory for Wall Street.

    Seriously…you can’t sustain a protest “until demands are met” when you’re still deciding what those demands are. Comments like this from a site discussing the protest’s demands are spot on: “They went from having no demands, to one demand (“occupy Wall Street”), to having almost every conceivable demand. It’s a symptom of political inexperience and the fact that there is a lot wrong in this country.” That list of demands includes everything from “end all wars” to “end capital punishment” to “ending poverty.” This is real problem for the protests and simply telling off people who keep bringing it up is not an answer to it.

    That said, the story is pretty much about one cop, and he will not become the face of Wall Street oppression.

  94. 94
    jwest says:

    @singfoom:

    All you need to do is find one person on that video (or all the other video and audio taken that day) yelling a racial epitaph and you could collect $100,000 from Andrew Breitbart.

    It never happened, and yet you still believe it.

    Are you still waiting for that Nigerian oil executive to wire you money?

  95. 95
    beltane says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again): Any parade permit granted would grant the protesters the right to express themselves in a quarantined “free-speech zone” i.e. kettling while right-wingers can do whatever they want, wherever they want with the full support of the police and civil authorities.

    But yes, life is so much easier when you accept that all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

  96. 96
    singfoom says:

    @jwest: Are you a fucking idiot?

    Wait, no don’t answer that. I NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT RACIAL EPITHETS, NOR DO I CARE. LEARN THE FUCK HOW TO READ AND OR GET THE FUCK OUT.

  97. 97
    elmo says:

    Once again, some damn rogue cops are giving the good, honest 1% a bad name.

  98. 98
    eemom says:

    dayum, this thread has SO MANY possibilites. It could go the cop-busting/defending law enforcement route…..the what-the-fuck-are-they protesting route……the are they covering this or are they not route……and that’s BEFORE the trolls get here….

  99. 99

    @joes527:

    I know what you mean- mom used to live there. Milwaukee cops would being writing tons of jaywalking tickets.

    But…Thousands of people in the middle of Fifth Avenue? There are enough planned parades that fuck with the daily lives of the residents of that island. Don’t think that an unplanned parade doesn’t piss off people who might otherwise be supportive of whatever the goals of the protest happen to be.

  100. 100
    elmo says:

    @singfoom:

    And here I thought “Post a pic or it didn’t happen” was just an internet joke, never something to be taken seriously.

    Because obviously we live in the world of Minority Report, and all events everywhere are filmed at all times.

    Moar bettr trolls plz, kthxbai.

  101. 101
    singfoom says:

    @eemom: Every thread that has something to do with occupy wall street includes the “what are they protesting” part.

    As for the trolls, my apologies to everyone, sometimes I cannot resist feeding them.

  102. 102
    jwest says:

    @singfoom:

    So you’re complaining about a group of legally assembled citizens peacefully voicing their opinion on a piece of pending legislation?

    Typical anti-democratic leftist.

    Have you ever contemplated a move to Venezuela?

  103. 103
    Yevgraf says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Maybe instead of donating money for pizzas we should be buying these protestors tri-corner hats to wear.

    How about a few dozen crates of firearms? Perhaps “the heroes of 9/11” will alter their behavior when their victims can fight back?

  104. 104
    Samara Morgan says:

    Bravo Cole. you stepped up for once.
    good coverage.

    Meanwhile back at the UN.

    Palestinian diplomats continued today their push inside the United Nations to achieve an internationally recognized state of their own.
    Despite promises by the Obama administration to veto any vote that admits the Palestinian territories as a full U.N. member, the Security Council unanimously agreed this morning to let their application be reviewed by a committee that will decide whether to bring it to the body for that vote.
    “As you see, the process is moving forward step-by-step,” Palestinian Ambassador Riyad Mansour said shortly after the meeting ended. “We hope the Security Council will shoulder its responsibility and approve the application.”
    __
    Complicating matters further was the announcement Tuesday by the Israeli government of the approval of 1,100 new settlements to be built in East Jerusalem, where Palestinians want to place their capital.
    “I think this provocative and illegal action by Israel of the construction of 1,100 is a clear answer by the Israeli government to the Quartet of their refusal to abide to the global consensus that settlements are an illegal obstacle to peace,” ambassador Mansour said. “They gave 1,100 answers. … Israel is not interested in negotiating with us. Their actions speak louder than what they say verbally.”
    But Israeli officials continue to resist any attempts to negotiate with preconditions, including the freeze of new settlements being set. “It’s [settlements] in Jerusalem and Jerusalem is something that we will negotiate,” Prosor said. “Jerusalem was capital of the Jewish people when London was still a swamp.”
    The White House called the decision Tuesday “deeply disappointing”, and could prove a substantial setback to the Mideast Quartet’s (U.S., U.N., European Union and Russia) attempts to avoid a confrontation inside the U.N., and resume negotiations between Palestinians and Israelis.
    Palestinian officials have yet to respond to the Quartet’s effort made Friday to jumpstart the stalled peace process. Palestinians won’t reject the proposals outright, but will continue to refuse to negotiate until there is a settlement freeze, sources told ABC News.
    If the Quartet proves unsuccessful, then it might ultimately force the United States to veto the Palestinian bid, and potentially inflame the Arab world at a time when democratic aspirations continue to reshape the region.
    As the committee reviews the application, U.S. officials hope they can buy at least a month by tying up the bid process in order to buy what one official called “breathing room” to allow negotiations to resume.
    Palestinian officials believe they have the nine votes needed to force the United States to play its hand, but U.S. officials are privately confident that they can block it.
    Security Council members Nigeria and Gabon are among those being lobbied furiously on both sides.
    The committee that will review the Palestinian bid will meet for the first time Friday morning.

    move-countermove.
    i still think the US can’t afford to veto.
    Here is the gamespace.

    As we learned in class, complex political relationships can sometimes be modeled as simple two player games. The Palestinian Authority’s (P.A.) bid for statehood to the United Nations has been in recent headlines, and has the potential to change Palestine’s relationship with not only Israel, but the rest of the world, including the United States. Thus far, the U.S. is opposed to the U.N. voting on Palestine’s statehood, and instead favors a two-party solution based on negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority. The results of the decisions of the United States and the Palestinian Authority can be made into a payoff matrix in which the U.S.’s “strategies” would be to either support or oppose Palestine’s bid for statehood, while the Palestinian Authority’s “strategies” would be to either continue with their bid to the U.N., or withdraw it.
    __
    Palestine neither gains nor loses anything by not going forward with its plea, as that basically maintains the status quo. This is quantified as a payoff of 0 in the matrix. However, if the P.A. decides to continue their petition and the United States does not support the vote, Palestine then risks losing financial aid from the U.S. and others. This is not something Palestine would like to see, as its economy is dependent on foreign aid, so the payoff of bidding for statehood is less. In the case that the U.S. does support the plea, then Palestinians would be able to continue receiving aid, which would provide Palestine with the greatest positive outcome of 100.

    Now the US side of the game matrix.

    What the U.S. decides to do is more interesting, as it has a greater impact on the world. In the case that the U.S. does not support the Palestinian plea, the op-ed article lists many negative outcomes that could occur. One definite impact would be skepticism from other nations over America’s role in negotiating the peace process between Israel and Palestinians. Not only would it decrease American influence and credibility in the Middle-East, the U.S. would likely lose its relationship with Saudi Arabia, a critical ally in its war against terrorism. Furthermore, if the U.S. does not support Palestine’s bid, it could lead to increased conflict in the region, undermining Israeli security, and increasing chances of another war, which is negative for the U.S as it would be forced to interfere. Therefore, in the payoff matrix, the U.S. has the greatest negative outcome in the case that Palestine goes forward with their bid without American support so the payoff is -100. If Palestine decides not to continue with their bid, and the U.S. continues to oppose the U.N. vote, then that also is the status quo for the U.S., so the U.S. has a payoff of 0.

    Payoff negative 100.
    :)

  105. 105

    As long as enough stink is raised for a long enough time, action CAN happen. Those Fullerton cops are on trial, as one recent example.

  106. 106
    Corner Stone says:

    @Yevgraf: I think I’ll stick with the silly hats.

  107. 107
    geg6 says:

    OT, but have I mentioned yet what a national treasure Charles Pierce is? And how he has just turned me on to another national treasure, retired lumber company executive John Heroux?

    If you don’t believe me, here is Charles talking about Mr. Heroux’s feelings after a town hall today in New Hampshire:

    However, he ran into something of a low bridge with the first question from the audience. It came from a retired lumber company executive named John Heroux. Heroux was angry about the income disparity between CEOs and their employees, and about the whole notion that people should be allowed to crash the economy and then presume to rob the ones who redesign it so that they can have the opportunity to crash it again. “Why should we trust the people who caused the problems to be the ones to fix the problems they caused?” Heroux asked him. Mitt answered him by making another funny.
    __
    “Sir,” he said, “first of all, have you considered running in the Democratic primary?”
    __
    He then went on to the standard line about the American corporate tax rates, and he also argued some basic boilerplate about how bankers are afraid to lend money to grow the economy because they live in constant terror of some regulatory regime being cooked up in the inner circles of the White House by people like that noted Trotskyite, Tim Geithner. Heroux wasn’t buying.
    __
    “I’m 73 years old,” Heroux said after the event ended. “I’d never been involved in national politics at this level until the last two years. The country’s a mess, an absolute mess. The bastards are increasing their own pay and they’re not hiring. They’re sitting on tons of cash that could be invested in the economy. The words ‘banker’ and ‘smart businessman’ are never used in the same sentence. I think the bankers are using that (uncertainty) as an excuse.
    __
    “There’s been precious few people put in jail. Those mortgage brokers, those bankers who approved those loans, the people who sold those loans, the ratings agencies. If they’d have done with a gun what they did with a computer, they would be in jail.”

    Read more: http://www.esquire.com/blogs/p.....z1ZHXEaW8l

  108. 108
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Elie:

    We need to be, on this site and any others in the public domain, to be EXTREMELY careful and thoughtful in what we express. Hopefully, you are smart enough that I do not have to paint you a detailed picture of what is at stake and the risks. Do I?

    Shorter Elie: “People need to watch what they say; watch whyat they do…”

    Fuck that.

  109. 109
    Cat Lady says:

    Observations of a jailed journalist:

    But as we all sat in a jail, I noticed an interesting thing happen.
    __
    People began to talk very seriously about organizing in a more cohesive way than they have been. Jailhouse rookies, who had never been arrested or involved in radical political activities, listened attentively as experienced activists spoke about the need to set clear demands in order to rally broader public support for specific outcomes.

    Who here from BJ is in that jail representin’? This is what the next step has to be.

  110. 110
    eemom says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    A few months ago, here in deecee, there was a HUGE Falun Gong rally which also included a parade down Pennsylvania Avenue that kept me and a bunch of other people waiting 45 minutes to get across the street to work, even though the street had NOT been officially blocked off for the parade. The cops just stood and watched, impervious to our various bitching and moaning.

    Turned out they had a permit for the rally but not for the march — but as my co-worker put it, yer not gonna stop 20,000 people.

  111. 111
    poco says:

    @jwest: Oh, fergawdssake, just go away!

  112. 112
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @Elie:

    Forget about the Tea Party. We are up on “the stage” now. Its our show. Maybe different rules or not. But we are on and what happens we have to think about in terms of what benefits us. Tea party is so yesterday. They know it too.

    What are you? Some kind of parody concern troll?

  113. 113

    @beltane:

    Really? Show me an example of a similar march by right-wingers in Manhattan, no permits.

    And NYC has had a policy in place since ’08, at least from what a blogger elsewhere told me (without a direct link):

    “In 2008 the New York Police Department, as part of a court settlement, has agreed to formalize several changes it has made in its crowd control procedures at political demonstrations. The department said it would ensure that protesters will not be trapped inside pens surrounded by police barricades, that people will be given “avenues of escape” when police approach on horseback and that the public is informed about access routes when sidewalks or roads are closed.”

    – NY Times City Room Blog, April 15, 2008.

    I highlighted that last bit because what it lets you know that it’s a policy they have in place for planned, permitted protests.

  114. 114
    SnarkyShark says:

    @jaywillie:

    Hey, there is jaywille again with another long screed to do nothing.

    If it turns into another incident of the police state in action I can live with that. Most people I know are becoming more and more concerned with the way we are going in that direction.

    You think J Cole jumped from the Republican Party becasue of one well planned bullet point protest? It was a lot of things over time until there was one thing to many.

    I am willing to bet this will have that same effect for a suprising number of people.

    You even make the case yourself, there a lot of things wrong. This incident illustrates one of those.

    And yet you stand ready to shit all over it. What is your malfunction?

  115. 115
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    “So you’re complaining about a group of legally assembled citizens peacefully voicing their opinion on a piece of pending legislation?”

    No, he was refuting your assertion that when Teabaggers “get together … everyone is pleasant, peaceful” et cetera. The glee with which you hold onto your nonexistent ‘gotcha’ bullshit is embarrassing.

  116. 116
    Culture of Truth says:

    Bologna has a first name,
    It’s A-N-T-H-O-N-Y
    Bologna has buddies
    They’re the N-Y-P-D
    We live in the land of the free
    But if you turn on your tv
    Or watch youtube you will see
    A-B-U-S-E

  117. 117
    Kola Noscopy says:

    @beltane:

    But yes, life is so much easier when you accept that all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

    OMG, I just saw “Candide” here in Boston last week at the Huntington Theatre. EXCELLENT!

  118. 118
    AndoChronic says:

    @Suffern ACE: Hopefully they will be, and then they can show the court the police misconduct in this matter. Can you cite why you believe it to be illegal to videotape police (without interfering in their duties) in NY?

  119. 119
    rb says:

    @elmo: Yeah, that’s right about my take too.

  120. 120

    @eemom:

    And you could probably march 100K down almost any major surface street in Detroit with the exception of Woodward Ave., and no one would give a fuck, either. But you can fit Manhattan, San Francisco and Boston inside of Detroit and still have space left over.

    That’s to say you’re comparing the Big Apple to oranges.

    And now I’m going to be late for work. TA!

  121. 121
    Elie says:

    @Yevgraf:

    I personally find your comment offensive and disgusting.

    You need to take that shit elsewhere.

  122. 122
    John Weiss says:

    Pigs is pigs. Learned that forty-five years ago and it’s still true.

  123. 123
    Amir Khalid says:

    Back in 1998 there was a high-profile case of a criminal suspect being assaulted while in the custody of the Royal Malaysian Police. Given that cops here sometimes take it upon themselves to, um, chastise perps a bit as part of the process (it seems to be a cop thing everywhere, doesn’t it?) it was most unusual that there was even a case at all, let alone that it had any public profile.

    This one did because the suspect was recently-fired deputy prime minister Anwar Ibrahim. Also because when he was taken to court to be charged, he was photographed coming out of the Black Maria (paddywagon) with a face full of bruises, and The Economist ran the photo on its cover. It was seen all over the world, and the government here was forced to investigate. Otherwise, former DPM or not, there would never have been a case.

    Eventually a police officer did fess up to beating Anwar up in his cell. His confession was corroborated by his fellow officers. His name was Norian Mai, and at the time of the incident he held the rank of Inspector-General (i.e. national chief) of Police.

    There’s more. Former IGP Norian Mai pleaded guilty and did a few months for assault. His lawyer said in mitigation that Norian was a just a police offer, a dedicated and long-serving one, who beat up Anwar out of an excess of professional zeal. Given who Norian was, a lot of people here thought the judge should have treated these facts as aggravating circu=mstances.

  124. 124
    tjproudamerican says:

    John Cole, the last sane man in America. I come here to Balloon Juice to spend time with (mostly) sane comments flowing from writers who write directly and honestly.

    That “We need to see the context” of a bully with power punishing the young girl protestors was very psychologically revealing. My guess is that Lt. Schmuck-Anthony Bologna just hates these girls because he feels these girls have money (or they couldn’t join a protest that takes days and looks bad on one’s resume for our Corporate Overlords), that these girls are beautiful and sexually active, but never with an old cop, and privileged.

    Imagine what this schmuck Anthony Bologna would do to these girls if he wasn’t afraid someone had a camera? With cameras everywhere he tortured them.

  125. 125
    Q. Q. Moar says:

    @Culture of Truth: I want to run away with this comment and make sweet, sweet love to it.

  126. 126
    Elie says:

    @Kola Noscopy:

    fuck off, colon sucker. Time for your daily enema.

  127. 127
    blackfrancis says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    12th Street and Fifth Avenue is not really a major thoroughfare in NYC, FYI. It ends at a park.

  128. 128
    rb says:

    @blackfrancis: But it’s in MANHATTAN! And everyplace in MANHATTAN is EQUALLY FULL OF CARZ.

  129. 129
    Keith G says:

    @Elie:

    Or are you just your usual thoughtless, reckless asshole self

    Pow!!
    Gentile and reasonable Miss Elie lowers the boom.

    ..and later

    fuck off, colon sucker. Time for your daily enema.

    Miss Elie Raw

  130. 130
    blackfrancis says:

    @rb: Whoops! I totes forgot. I hate it when they back up in the subway tunnels.

  131. 131
    joes527 says:

    @AndoChronic: woooooooooosh!

  132. 132
    out of control says:

    New videos of Out of Control NYPD cop in ANOTHER spraying attack

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....85432.html

    obviously this asshole has anger management issues coupled with abuse of power issues and he needs to be arrested, indicted and imprisoned.

    what a total douchebag

  133. 133
    Dead Duck Fucking says:

    Does anyone remember when “The Last Sane Man In America(TM)” didn’t really give a shit, because, WOW!

  134. 134
    Librarian says:

    Unless I’ve missed something, Maddow has not said one single word about the protests. Not even when Michael Moore mentioned it. She must be specifically forbidden by MSNBC to cover it.

  135. 135
    RossInDetroit says:

    And you could probably march 100K down almost any major surface street in Detroit with the exception of Woodward Ave.

    That’s because the Detroit area has a superb system of roads and highways. I was headed up Woodward at 5:45 am today and was late for work. It was closed at 15 mile by a ‘police situation’ and I had to detour. Still made it on time.

  136. 136
    eemom says:

    @Keith G:

    my reaction too.

    I do love it when a gentle, reasonable lady like Elie finally runs out of patience and kicks the motherfucker in the balls.

  137. 137
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    @Elie: Really? Speaking strictly from my own mall-ninja, coffee-drinking armchair-warrior perspective, I’d have to say I’m with yevgraf. It seems to me that there might be less casual police brutality if the protesters were all carrying shotguns and rifles, as the New Black Panthers supposedly do at their public gatherings.

    Of course, that’s in Texas where it’s legal for non-felons to carry such things around in public, so long as they aren’t aimed at people. New York gun laws being what they are, I doubt many of the protesters are/will be packing heat.

  138. 138
    AndoChronic says:

    @joes527: Did I miss sarcasm somewhere? Sorry, I’m usually good at picking it up!

  139. 139
    Kola Noscopy says:

    Miss Elie is an enabler of weakness and capitulation in service of the status quo.

    Fuck that.

  140. 140

    John Cole, the last sane man in America

    We are so fucked

    Rescue us, dear lard!!

    send drugs and money!!

  141. 141
    trollhattan says:

    @Citizen_X:

    Freakin’ Hoverround tracks everywhere! If your notion of the Real ‘Murika represented by the baggers is the 4 o’clock seating at Denny’s set, you won’t be far off.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/s.....525188202/

  142. 142
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Tony J:

    As my cynical high school history teacher taught me, if ‘the people’ are pissed about something someone in power did then the powers that be form a body to investigate their complaint(s) against that person. Once they have done that, the public is happy to see something is ‘being done’ and they back off their anger.

    When the decision of the body formed to look into the complaints(s) delivers their decision a year or two later, people have forgotten about it.

    Wash, rinse and repeat as necessary. It always works.

  143. 143
    Elie says:

    @Keith G:

    Hey, nice seeing you too, Keith.

    If you had really read the thread, and knew what had ocurred at each of those points, I might laugh along with you. As for Kolon person — why should I have to listen to anything he says? Just because you want me to?

    Go back and read, Keith. Rather than immediately taking the position you usually take “Oh, there you go again, Elie”.. go back and read what Corner Stone inadvertantly agreed to in a comment back up by commenter with the handle dave.

  144. 144
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Johnny Coelacanth: More guns, less crime? I hear Mary Rosh loves that argument.

  145. 145
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    This is from the diary at KOS where the second Bologna video surfaced, and it addresses the “sidetracking” issue:

    This issue IS connected, not sidetracked, with the MAIN issue of this movement:
    Is there a direct connection to the ISSUE of this movement/protest and the issue of Bologna’s abuses.
    You bet there is.
    Greed and lust for power have taken root and festered in our system – not because of the idea of our system – but because of its corruption.
    Those with power and authority are not held to account – and thus they misuse that power and abuse that power.
    Let’s start CHANGING the system one step at a time. First step: accountability for the abuses of Bologna.
    …it is not only OK – but it is both right and NECESSARY (for our country and community) to challenge the abuses of authority and to demand those who abuse it be held to account.

  146. 146
    Elie says:

    @Johnny Coelacanth:

    It is extremely dangerous to advocate that people do that in a situation like this. You gonna take responsibility for the consequences?

    I do not support the status quo but do not believe that guns are the way to change it. Maybe you do. Maybe your knuckels drag on the ground too. I dunno.

    Loose talk without consequence is irresponsible and frequently stupid — not YOUR life being risked, is it? Not the larger things we might could achieve without your wild west show, Cro Magnon thinking, for sure.

    Go wrastle your alligators or armadillos or whatever y’all do down there for intellectual stimulation.

  147. 147
    Amir Khalid says:

    @Johnny Coelacanth:

    It seems to me that there might be less casual police brutality if the protesters were all carrying shotguns and rifles,

    I don’t know about this. It seems to me that civilians carrying small arms as a matter of course is problematic for other reasons.

  148. 148
    Keith G says:

    @eemom: Yeah, but I was focusing on the obvious pretense.

  149. 149
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Johnny Coelacanth:

    Those with power and authority are not held to account – and thus they misuse that power and abuse that power.

    As a way to link the two causes, that blows. Why not say that it’s a vivid reminder of how the law serves the interests of the financial sector, or something like that?

  150. 150
    Svensker says:

    @Samara Morgan:

    i still think the US can’t afford to veto.

    Silly rabbit.

  151. 151
    Elie says:

    @Keith G:

    Keith:

    did you go back up and look? Just curious. Here, let me help you out..

    @dave:

  152. 152
    SnarkyShark says:

    Here is a recent report on the ground

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/.....ia=siderec

    It comes from the GOS so there will be haters, but there are some real nice photos.

    If you go there notice the photo of the “street thug’ painting signs next to a guy in a real nice suit. Maybe now the good citizens of W Penn get now get exited?

    Bullet points,
    >the crowd has doubled

    >the cops have been told to tone it down(that is no explicitdly stated but is my read on it.

    > apparently some vets in overseas combat zones are ready to get involved as soon as they get back.

    I watched the Cindy Sheehan protest blow up, and this feels just like that.

    To all the organizational freaktards there is a detialed look at how its being organized and run.

    Its open source.

  153. 153
    RossInDetroit says:

    Cops will tell you they see crimes all the time that they can’t do anything about because – they believe – the courts are tilted in favor of criminals (what we call defendants). They resent that they’re held to what they see as a high standard of conduct while bad guys go free. This makes many cops bitter and in a few cases, makes them want to take it out on someone. I’ve known several long term police officers and they were very cynical.

  154. 154
    Corner Stone says:

    @Elie:
    Sigh. You’re too dimwitted to realize dave is a spoof and I was making fun of him.

  155. 155
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    @FlipYrWhig: “More guns, less crime?” Nope. Read the comment more slowly, and concentrate on the part where I say “there might be less casual police brutality…” From what I understand, the police are very respectful and restrained at those NBPP rallies in Texas. I suppose we could just chalk that up to good, ol’ fashioned, Southern hospitality.

  156. 156
    Elie says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Oh, I guess you thought spoof or not, that wanting blood was funny?

    Well, you be the moron then. I was actually giving you a break, thinking you made a mistake.

    I go back to my original judgement about your intellect and maturity — you are an idiotic, irresponsible moron. Anyone who would fool around with that kind of risk deserves nothing but contempt.

  157. 157
    Keith G says:

    @Elie: Greetings back at ya.

    ..go back and read what Corner Stone inadvertantly agreed to..

    Oh Miss Elie, I have read the whole thread so please chill that world famous judgement of yours. What I find interesting is that you take Corner Stone so literally. That’s a different definition of judgement I guess.

  158. 158
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    I thought we all agreed with Mr. Oliver Willis that the most important thing for Commissioner Kelly to investigate is the hippies’ personal attire, because that’s like kryptonite to Hope and Change for America.
    .
    .

  159. 159
    Mattminus says:

    @Elie:
    I cried when they shot John Lennon
    Tears ran down my spine
    And I cried when I saw “JFK”
    As though I’d lost a father of mine
    But Malcolm X and Ice-T had it coming
    They got what they asked for this time

    CHORUS
    So love me, love me, love me
    I’m a liberal

    I go to pro-choice rallies
    Recycle my cans and jars
    I’ll honk if you love the Dead
    Hope those funny grunge bands become stars
    But don’t talk about revolution
    That’s going a little bit too far

    CHORUS

    I cheered when Clinton was chosen
    My faith in the system reborn
    I’ll do anything to save our schools
    If my taxes ain’t too much more

    And I love blacks and gays and Latinos
    As long as they don’t move next door

    CHORUS

    Rush Limbaugh and the L.A.P.D.
    Should all hang their heads in shame
    I can’t understand where they’re at
    Arsenio should set them straight
    But if Neigborhood Watch doesn’t know you
    I hope the cops take your name

    CHORUS

    Yeh, I read the New Republic(an)
    Rolling Stone and Mother Jones too
    If I vote it’s a Democrat
    With a sensible economy view
    But when it comes to terrorist Arabs
    There’s no one more red, white and blue

    CHORUS

    Once I was young and had an attitude
    Stickers covered the car I drove in
    Even went on some direct actions
    When there weren’t rent-a-cops to be seen
    Ah, but now I’ve grown older and wiser
    And that’s why I’m turning you in

  160. 160
    Corner Stone says:

    @Elie: What are you even blathering about? Do you even know?

  161. 161
    Ruckus says:

    @Elie:
    Using your comment to enlarge on some of the comments made in prior posts as well as clarify Corner’s and my comments. I am outraged by a number of things in this country and in the world. But I don’t want to kill/maim people to try to fix them because that never works in the long term. Example, the death penalty. It does work, in the short term, the person murdered will never do whatever they were supposed to have done, ever again. However it is not justice, it is barbaric, it is beneath us, it is not a deterrent, it is retribution. I’m outraged that it is still done in our name in the 21 century.

  162. 162
    Rafer Janders says:

    @Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again):

    It wasn’t Fifth Avenue. It was University Place, which as I mentioned above is a small, one-third mile long street that dead-ends at a park and is not a major thoroughfare.

  163. 163
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    @Elie:Your rapid descent into name calling is unbecoming. I did specify that it was strictly an armchair warrior viewpoint, i.e, I have no skin in the game. I also thought I made it pretty clear that, no matter what you, yev or I think about it, the question is pointless because you can’t casually carry rifles on Wall Street.

    Instead of spraying me with your refreshing tonic of righteousness and bile, you could have talked about why it works for the black guys in Texas, but why it wouldn’t work in New York, etc. I clearly made an error in expecting a calm discussion from you, Elie. I won’t make the mistake again. My apologies.

  164. 164
    JWL says:

    If the military draft were ever reinstated, the roof would be blown off this nation’s two party political establishment.

    Disclaimer: Being decades my past cannon fodder prime, I heartedly endorse that reinstatement.

  165. 165
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    @FlipYrWhig: “As a way to link the two causes, that blows. Why not say that it’s a vivid reminder of how the law serves the interests of the financial sector, or something like that?”

    That would be good. I was just pointing out that the diarist had made such an argument.

  166. 166
    Elie says:

    @Keith G:

    Yeah, silly me, I take shit like that seriously. Paranoid? Maybe. But tell me, how do you not take that seriously? How do you take someone having a funny on people getting hurt or killed? And then you have these other morons advocatting that the protesters carry guns?

    Wow!

    The stoopid — it burns!

  167. 167
    SnarkyShark says:

    One more bullet point

    >apparently a union with 50,000 mebers stands ready to march with the dirty smelly drum playing hippies.

    So now maybe the good citizens of Penn can now fully embrace all this.

    I can not change my stance on this.

    I find people who look down their nose at others who do
    the hard work to be distastefull.

    Maybe we do need them, but that doesnt mean they dont swim in the shallow end.

    I am NOT talking about YOU geg6, but I am refering to all those idoits in Penn who can’t get over themselves.

  168. 168
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Corner Stone:

    What are you even blathering about? Do you even know?

    I can field this one if I may, Corner. Elie doesn’t want blood, she wants something that’s thicker.
    .
    .

  169. 169
    Corner Stone says:

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas: Sizzurp?
    From the way she’s blathering about it sounds like she’s already had more than enough.

  170. 170
    Elie says:

    @Johnny Coelacanth:

    I am sorry for the name calling. I seriously do not understand why someone would advocate that people participating in peaceful marches should need them. You obviously differ. I don’t think its much of an argument that you made for it frankly and the down sides are many.
    Tell me how your vision of this plays out?

    Perhaps you recall the President making speeches in front of armed tea party crowds. I found that extremely revolting and scary. Now you describe a desired state of having peaceful protesters, rationally expressing their freedoms and rights to gather, but requiring guns somehow.

    That is just past lame. Sad. Also.

  171. 171
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Amir Khalid: Yanno, here we are getting our indignance fired up over this pansy assed Kelly and you gotta waltz in here from another hemisphere and offer the voice of reason. You have issues with our rising blood pressure, or what? :)

    The points you make are, of course, astute and correct. Were I representing Bologna I’d certainly make much of anything negative Kelly said as tainting any subsequent investigation. I’m certain his NY licensed counsel will have the same idea.

  172. 172
    eemom says:

    Fuck all you bullies.

    Unlike most of your sorry asses — and mine, for that matter — Elie actually does try to keep things civil around here. So shut the fuck up and stop piling on.

    Assholes.

  173. 173
    Elie says:

    @Ruckus:

    I completely agree with you.

    So I have your support in advocating against bloodshed or violence in these Wall Street sit ins/marches?

    If so, there is no problem that I can see.

    Any apologies if I offended you in any way.

  174. 174
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Mattminus:

    But Malcolm X and Ice-T had it coming

    Ice-T had stardom on NBC coming?
    .
    .

  175. 175
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    @Corner Stone: I actually was thinking I’d missed a decade or so in acceptable law enforcement techniques, because I was horrified at the sight of people rounded up in fucking snow fencing yet no one seemed as bothered by it as I was. The First Amendment guarantees the right of free assembly, which I’ll argue loudly does not exist when one is contained by a fence, however flexible or netlike it may be. I’m outraged.

  176. 176
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @geg6:

    There are bad cops and good cops. In my experience, the good outweigh the bad. The problem is that the bad ones wreak havoc and the good ones have little choice but stand back and watch them do it unless they are willing to become Frank Serpico. And few cops with mortgages, wives/husbands, and children can afford to do that.

    In other words, it’s the bad cops who determine how things happen in police departments. Doesn’t that mean that the bad is outweighing the good?

    I keep reading this bullshit about good cops being the vast, vast majority, but apparently there’s not enough of them to band together to fight corruption. Nope, that corruption is too pervasive and the poor good cops just can’t dare to fight it. But we’re still supposed to presume that the good ones are in charge? Give me a break.

    When you see a cop, you need to assume that he has it in for you. To think that he is your friend is just foolish. Rest assured, if one of the “bad” cops puts five bullets in your back because he had a bad day, there will be plenty of “good” cops on the scene to help cover it up. That is the reality of the situation. That some significant number of the cops involved are not pure evil doesn’t change the plain reality.

    (BTW, if you think I’m being hyperbolic, please look in the mirror. Are you a normal looking white person? Congrats on being the one kind of person that cops might defer to. It won’t stop any cops from participating in covering up your murder should a cop “accidentally” pop you, but you at least get to avoid most of the worst harassment.)

  177. 177
    SnarkyShark says:

    Ease up on ellie people. She has a good heart, but doesnt really get sarcasm or irony.

    Elie honey, there may come a time when guns ARE neccessary so buck up. That time is not now, but it may come.

    Here is a good rule to know. If it is worth dying for, then it’s worth killing for. If the Tea-tards win through hook or crook, you will be among the first they will put up against the wall.

    Fire arms can be scary, but sometimes they can save your and others of like minds life.

    None of those guys were advocating for blood, they were riffing off of all the idoits who open carried at tea party rallies in Arizona.

  178. 178
    Keith G says:

    @Elie:

    How do you take someone having a funny on people getting hurt or killed?

    Oh my

    Slight hint: http://politicalhumor.about.co....._Humor.htm
    It’s what normal humans do.

  179. 179
    Elie says:

    @eemom:

    Thanks eemom but never you mind about the polyps on this thread. They irritate and swell up sometimes but they always show themselves for what they are.

    People like Corner and his fellow polyps don’t bother me a bit. That troll Uncle whatsisname apparently hearts Corner though. Good match.

  180. 180
  181. 181
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    “@Elie: “Now you describe a desired state of having peaceful protesters, rationally expressing their freedoms and rights to gather, but requiring guns somehow.

    That is just past lame. Sad. Also.”

    Yes, it is quite sad when peaceful protesters need to be visibly armed before they won’t be casually brutalized by the police. I do recall the president making speeches before armed tea party crowds. I do not recall seeing video of policemen gleefully squirting those protesters with pepper spray.

    Did the guns have anything to do with it?

  182. 182
    dave says:

    @Elie: Kill a cop for Christ, Elie.

    OK, fine, I’ll dial it back: I want blood, but I won’t demand blood. Would it break my heart if Anthony Bologna were, in the course of spraying kettled women, run over by a bus? No. Would I swerve to hit him? No.

    I don’t need blood. I also don’t need smashed cop cars, broken bank windows, terrorized bankers, bat-smashed BMWs, a giant fart cloud hanging over the middle class and timid liberals, looted local bank branches, burned piles of cash stolen from bank vaults, or Jamie Dimon’s severed head on a platter. But it would be a good start.

  183. 183
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    @eemom: “Fuck all you bullies.” One at a time or en masse?

  184. 184
    Elie says:

    @SnarkyShark:

    Hey there — you ever watch someone actually die from multiple gun shots?

    I have.

    This is not something you make fun of — unless you are sick.

    That a bunch of you make light of it in the name of some sort of “satire” is I guess, not surprising.

    Hope you never have to experience that – (standing on blankets to avoid slipping on floors covered with blood). Running codes on young people and dealing with their families.

    Fuck YOU

  185. 185
    Ruckus says:

    @Elie:
    Apologies not necessary. This is a blog. I try to not take too much too personally.
    Sometimes engines overheat. Sometimes they over rev. Sometimes they blow up. Some brains seem to work the same way.

  186. 186
    dave says:

    No, but seriously, thanks to Corner Stone for raising the issue of kettling.

    Neither Elie’s pouting nor my violent fantasies should distract anyone from the horrific problem of police brutality.

  187. 187
    TuiMel says:

    I contacted both Mayor Bloomberg and Commissioner Kelly to let them know that I was aware of and appalled by Bologna’s actions in the videos. I also let them know that I thought others officers failed by not sanctioning Bologna’s behavior at the time it occurred.

  188. 188
    TuiMel says:

    @Citizen_X:

    “Yeah? Well don’t fucking tread on me either.”

    There’s a tee shirt and a bumper sticker in there…

  189. 189
    Mattminus says:

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas:

    It does need another updating doesn’t it? Also, too, fuck Ice-T, what a sell out.

  190. 190
    eemom says:

    @Elie:

    That troll Uncle whatsisname apparently hearts Corner though.

    Yep. Just like a hand hearts a dick.

  191. 191
    wasabi gasp says:

    That orange netting doesn’t offer much protection at all.

  192. 192
    SnarkyShark says:

    ellie-

    Yes I have. I am ex military. Violence is for last resort.

  193. 193
    AndoChronic says:

    @RossInDetroit: Cops are held to a higher standard because of the authority society gives them. The only remedy for the problems they have, that you mention, is ongoing psychological help and therapy.

  194. 194
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Elie:

    Hey there—you ever watch someone actually die from multiple gun shots?
     
    I have.

    For next time, may I remind you that it is not polite to stare?
    .
    .

  195. 195
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @eemom:

    Yep. Just like a hand hearts a dick.

    I defer to your long experience and authority in this matter, Madame Happy Hour.
    .
    .

  196. 196
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    I once saw a person killed by an automobile. It was horrific. Now please acknowledge the superiority of my moral stance when I insist that automobiles have no place in a safe society.

  197. 197
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @eemom: Thanks for that image. I doubt I will ever sleep again.

  198. 198
    Robert says:

    Mace was not the answer. That’s clear. If they did something that wrong and weren’t posing an immediate threat to anyone, they should have been cuffed and removed from the crowd.

    I’m still not willing to say “OMG NYPD are DEVILS!” because some protesters are putting up video footage that only shows police response. Some of the videos that have been getting MSM play actually show people who are slapped in cuffs punching police officers in the middle of a crowded street before the officer touches them. We don’t know who these people are, what they did, what the police saw them do, and why they were actually being arrested. And yet, the immediate response “OMG NYPD are DEVILS! Police Brutality!” when we don’t know the whole story. It’s the equivalent of saying anyone who steps into a courtroom is guilty until proven innocent. It’s not how criminal justice works in America.

    There is no backpedaling from Kelly when no one except for the officers and the people who were maced know what actually happened to cause that. You don’t know if that officer wasn’t back and forth on the scene for a long time dealing with who knows what criminal activity before the attack happened. Do you know for sure they didn’t threaten to kill the police? Kill protesters? Do you know they didn’t say they had a gun on them or a knife? Do you know that they didn’t start punching and kicking officers before they were corralled into the gate? You don’t because all you see is the two women get maced and fall to the ground while the officer walks away. Kelly can’t comment on a case unless he knows all of the details. He doesn’t.

    Then there’s the matter that the NYPD has a surveillance team for all protests that films every conceivable angle of the crowd to show full context at trial. The truth is going to come out eventually. It’s not going to come out until those who were arrested are formally charged and tried.

    And one more note while I think about it. Did you know there was another large protest yesterday a few blocks from the Occupy Wall Street crowd? It’s true. 700 airline pilots gathered peacefully at their designated starting place, marched the route they informed the city they would be taking, and then stood in choreographed formations until the protest was over. They were protesting low wages and bad business practices, just like the Occupy Wall Street crowd. The difference was that the airline pilots assembled peacefully, did not wear masks, did not start screaming and hurling obscenities, did not start shoving police officers and demanding an explanation of why they were stationed there, did not try to break into police headquarters, and did not walk around with open containers of alcohol, exposed nudity, and illegal drugs. No one was arrested at the pilot protest. There was also ZERO media coverage of the pilot protest because the young people down the street were still demanding badge numbers. The young people down the street did break off and attempt to stir the airline pilots into more radical action and were shocked that the police weren’t lining up to attack anyone protesting in NYC. The NYPD don’t just blindly assault people for kicks or conspiracy reason.

  199. 199
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    “The NYPD don’t just blindly assault people for kicks or conspiracy reason.”

    So what DO they blindly assault people for? Besides being black, I mean.

  200. 200
    MattR says:

    @Robert:

    The truth is going to come out eventually. It’s not going to come out until those who were arrested are formally charged and tried.

    So the truth is not going to come out eventually because the protestors are not going to be tried and the officer is not even going to be charged.

  201. 201
    Buck Turgidson says:

    I hate to judge before all the facts are in, but it looks like Officer Bologna has exceeded his authority.

  202. 202
    wasabi gasp says:

    Mace was not the answer.

    Then what would I do for a klondike bar was not the question. Maybe Bologna likes them too.

  203. 203
    wrb says:

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas:

    The images are too intense tonight. I don’t doubt that the hand hearts the dick while staring at people dying of multiple gunshot woulds, but I bought a nice dinner.

  204. 204
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Robert:

    The NYPD don’t just blindly assault people for kicks or conspiracy reason.

    You are clearly insane. Fortunately, you may be brought back to your senses by a handjob from eemom, who is currently providing them to anyone who buys her a Whiskey Sour, if I understand her latest post correctly.
    .
    .

  205. 205
    AndoChronic says:

    @Robert: You need those young people to start shit. It’s great that uniformed pilots showed up to do their own thing. Would that have happened regardless of the “Wall Street protest”? It’s like the uniformed police marching with the folks in Madison WI., good for them, they’re a part of the affected community too. Would have a bunch of uniformed cops playing bagpipes march on their own separate a larger context in Madison? We’re a bitter and jaded society and sometimes an event like this (Wall Street) is the only way to predicate some sort of change and garner attention.

  206. 206
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @AndoChronic: The airline pilots probably would have done it anyway. My best friend from undergrad is an airline pilot, and he spends a shitload of his spare time traveling to locations and picketing. He has been doing it for a couple of years now. One thing they have going for them is free space available flights.

  207. 207
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @Robert: Yeah, and who can say that the maced women weren’t witches chanting curses at the officer? And who can say that they didn’t stink really bad? Or maybe they insulted that poor officer’s mama?

    Shorter Robert: Those dirty fucking hippies must have had it coming.

    But, you know, if there was actually any real threat from these women, why did the white-shirt just casually stroll away after he maced them? They were so dangerous that they had to be painfully subdued right at that moment, but not so dangerous that they couldn’t just be left in the street to continue their reign of terror when they could see again in a half hour or so?

    So, um, that’s why I don’t think they had a fucking gun or knife. The police obviously didn’t act like they did.

    But hey, what if what if what if. Of course, there’s no what if when it comes to the video you saw of protesters shoving and throwing punches. In those cases we can be certain that it’s all the protesters’ faults. No need for any more context there!

    Hey Robert. You’re a tool.

  208. 208
    eemom says:

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas:

    I suspect that you in fact ARE Cornered Stone’s dick. It would explain a lot, including your lack of, shall we say, substance.

  209. 209
    AndoChronic says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: See, I bet they weren’t drunk, high, and nude (or maybe they were). But, you don’t see much of their protests in the media.

  210. 210
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @AndoChronic: I’m not getting drawn into that spat. No sirree.

  211. 211
    burnspbesq says:

    @Jerome:

    There will be no real investigation. There will be no real punishment. The people tasked with monitoring the behaviour of Law Enforcement are Law Enforcement, and nothing will be done about it.

    Really? Explain what just happened in Orange County, smartypants.

  212. 212
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @eemom:

    I suspect that you in fact ARE Cornered Stone’s dick.

    Isn’t there some sort of local dramshop law which applies to that seedy bar you’re giving handjobs in? I think you have exceeded your limit of Whiskey Sours for the evening, because what you suggest is impossible.

    It would explain a lot, including your lack of, shall we say, substance.

    Yes, if something impossible were actually possible, then it could serve as an explanation to a sticky liquid-soaked harpy. And yet, what you suggest is still impossible, no matter how many Whiskey Sours and handjobs you gulp down. Therefore, I rest my case, and award you the title of Whiskey Sour-Fueled Queen of Handjobs for your efforts. Please let me know immediately if you switch back to SUPER COKE!.
    .
    .

  213. 213
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Explain what just happened in Orange County, smartypants.

    A guidance counselor mistakenly sends out the wrong transcripts to Stanford University under the name of an over-achieving high schooler. At least that is what IMDb says.

  214. 214
    AndoChronic says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: My point is, maybe this is better directed toward Robert, as Dave Pirner so eloquently put it, “Nothing attracts a crowd like a crowd”. Perpetual “frustration” manifestation? It’s a big tent!

  215. 215
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @AndoChronic: Hey, I’m not against these guys and any points I had over the last couple of days about how they might reach a larger audience seem to have been overtaken by events.

  216. 216
    elftx says:

    A link to live stream of protest and chat:

    http://www.livestream.com/globalrevolution

    also too, although I appreciate Anon figuring out the name of the cop, I did not think it appropriate they sink to Malkin level and post all his private info

  217. 217
    singfoom says:

    Everybody play nice, no need for all the insults. (I expect several fuck yous in response :P ) Except for JWest, the goalpost moving troll.

    THere’s a great blog post from a PBS journalist who got arrested in the Wall Street protests:

    http://www.thirteen.org/metrof.....ournalist/

  218. 218
    AndoChronic says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m with ‘ya, and I don’t think anyone can articulate the answer you’re/ we’re looking for, it’s a gut thing, everyone knows it instinctively already. It’s unfortunate that the negative events themselves are the primary cause for the current attention, but here it is. Now what?

  219. 219
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Robert:

    According to NYPD rules, mace is only to be used to effect an arrest by helping officers subdue an individual so they can be taken into custody. Tony Baloney maced the women and walked away, there was no arrest(s), he fucked up and broke the rules.

    IMO he did this in an attempt to incite the crowd into doing something stupid so NYPD could then beat the shit out of them, spray them, taze them, cuff them and stuff them, just to discredit the protesters and make them look bad.

    He’s a bad cop. Full stop. Defend that.

  220. 220
    jeff says:

    @Robert:

    Oh good god, dude. You’re so full of shit I shouldn’t even ask, but have you ever lived here? I love most NYPD, but I have been beaten, and (almost) sent to jail because I was with the 2004 Republican Convention protest in Manhattan. (I was actually with a member of the press when this happened.)

  221. 221
    John X. says:

    Odie Hugh Manatee,

    And if the second video is him, he literally walked up to a group of people who were neither behind barricades or directly involved in a confrontation with a cop and sprayed them. Hell, both videos show that he caught one of his fellow cops each time.

    Dude is not just a bad cop. Dude is a fucking nut.

  222. 222
    cynn says:

    This thread reminds me of Thanksgiving dinner without a football game…

  223. 223
    Corner Stone says:

    I continue to enjoy the fact that Elie is too stupid to actually parse comments here.
    For those giving her the benny, she’s less than bright.

  224. 224
    Corner Stone says:

    @eemom:

    Elie actually does try to keep things civil around here. So shut the fuck up and stop piling on.

    She’s a hyper judgmental moron who hasn’t distinguished between ass and hole in the ground for some time.
    She ain’t fucking civil. Stop trying to adopt her.

  225. 225
    Corner Stone says:

    @wasabi gasp:

    That orange netting doesn’t offer much protection at all.

    For whom?

  226. 226
    Corner Stone says:

    @John X.: Looking at his face while he thumbs off a mace canister it’s pretty clear he’s a menace and a really hateful person. He opened up yards behind his targets and clearly hates them, not caring who he hurts.

  227. 227
    Tehanu says:

    @jwest:

    Yeah, if I believed Andrew Breitbart would pay a hundred thousand bucks to Jesus Himself if He came down and showed him the video, I’d be as dumb as you are. Absence of video evidence is not evidence, you moron. And stop clutching your pearls about the filthy, filthy hippies. They’ve been right about everything for the last 45 years while you and your rightard buddies were turning this country into a Third World hellhole.

  228. 228

    @Rafer Janders:

    That’s where it eventually ended. From the NYTimes story:

    Many of those taking part have slept in Zuccotti Park, which is private, using it as a base. In the early afternoon hundreds of people left the park and moved north toward Union Square. Witnesses said that for much of the route, protesters spilled from sidewalks onto streets and added that the police used long orange nets at Fifth Avenue and 14th Street in an apparent attempt to block the march from proceeding.

    Many marchers, however, detoured and entered Union Square before eventually turning south again. Video showed a confusing scene as protesters went south on University Place, where motor vehicles run north.

    At 12th Street the orange nets again were used, this time to box in protesters between University Place and Fifth Avenue. About 3 p.m., more than two dozen people sat, handcuffed, on the sidewalk.

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    @RossInDetroit:

    That’s why I chose Detroit as my example- both The D and Washington D.C. are built on the old French “Wheel and Spokes” design which allows for easier rerouting of traffic. Also, the area of DC that eemmom was talking about isn’t a densely packed residential area- none of Detroit is densely packed any longer- so a march, whether scheduled through the city offices or not- doesn’t have nearly the same effect as has a similar march through Manhattan.

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    @beltane:

    But yes, life is so much easier when you accept that all is for the best in the best of all possible worlds.

    You know, this is just silly. Really, really silly.

    Aren’t we talking about civil DISobedience here? Did anyone think that the NYPD was going to wait at Union Square and help the Snapple Lady pass out complimentary beverages? For chrissakes, the first week of protesting was gaining no real traction. Protestors march, the city gives them a gift by kettling and arresting people, Bologna puts a bow on the gift by pepper spraying some of the protestors…The only thing left is for Adbusters to bring the attention back to the reason this all happened in the first place.

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    RGuy says:

    I’m probably way too late to add anything to this but in the off chance people are still paying attention to the comments apparently this guy pepper sprayed people again.

    http://gothamist.com/2011/09/2.....rtedly.php

    Also, while not exactly related, there is a pattern in the NYPD of cops basically abusing their position. Here’s a cop harassing a tourist who was at the 9/11 memorial. Her crime? Taking pictures.

    http://gothamist.com/2011/09/2.....morial.php

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