Shorter John Fleming (R-Whiner): How do I live on 400K a Year? It’s class warfare! Waaaah!

Cry me a fucking river, guy.

 Louisiana Republican and giant asshat John Fleming appeared on MSNBC this morning to bitch about how hard is life is because he can only live on $400,000 a year.

Seriously:

Rep. John Fleming (R-LA) appeared on MSNBC with Chris Jansing this morning to attack President Obama’s new deficit reduction plan, which includes some tax increases on the wealthy. Taking up the typical GOP talking point, Fleming said raising taxes on wealthy “job creators” is a terrible idea that kills jobs because many of these people are small business owners who pay taxes through personal income rates.
Fleming is himself a businesses owner, so Jansing asked, “If you have to pay more in taxes, you would get rid of some of those employees?” Fleming responded by saying that while his businesses made $6.3 million last year, after you “pay 500 employees, you pay rent, you pay equipment, and food,” his profits “a mere fraction of that” — “by the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over.”

As the first commenter on the post notes:

Uhh, did anyone do the math on his claims> 6.3 million, 500 employees, etc. Just on employees alone, that’s paying them about $12,000 a year. Obviously he’s full of BS. Or wait, he’s a republican, so it’s likely he has 500 sub-minimum wage workers.

Republicans are liars and they are assholes. How dare this guy complain about “only” making 400K per year when families of 4 are living on $12,000 a year? Further, how dare they claim that asking the wealthy to pay a small percentage more in taxes constitutes class warfare? Are they fucking high?

Two things:

First, this “job creators” meme has got to stop.  We’ve been waiting for how long for these richity riches to create jobs?  And have they created a single job as a result of tax cuts?  NO.

From Addicting Info:

Republicans have created the myth the rich are the “Job Creators”. I’ll grant you they are but one ingredient to the recipe, for they offer the supply of jobs. But this does not mean that they, in and of themselves, solely create jobs. No matter how cheap a product may be produced or how cheap a service may be rendered, without demand for those products and services no additional jobs will ever be created.

The Wall Street Journal reports on “What’s Wrong With America’s Job Engine” and touches upon who the real job creators are.

-Then there’s the confidence factor. If employers were sure they could sell more, they would hire more. If they were less uncertain about everything from durability of the recovery to the details of regulation, they would be more inclined to step up their hiring.

 How does lowering corporate taxes aid in generating higher job growth? Lower taxes does not address the business’ concerns over lack of sales. That would take a Demand-Side economic policy instead of the established Supply-Side policies.

(Read the rest.)

Creating jobs, my shiny black ass.

Here’s the simple truth: President Obama kicks Dubya’s ass when it comes to job creation:

via Business Insider

So if tax cuts lead to job creation, why the fuck did Bush created negative fifty-eleven jobs? YOU CAN’T ARGUE WITH FACTS, ASSHATS!!

Second, stop calling raising taxes on the rich class warfare. It’s bullshit, as President Obama pointed out today:

This has to be the clearest sign yet that Obama has taken a very sharp populist turn as he seeks to frame the contrast between the parties heading into 2012. During his remarks this morning, Obama directly responded to Republicans accusing him of “class warfare,” but rather than simply deny the charge, he made the critical point that the act of protecting tax cuts for the rich is itself class warfare, in effect positioning himself as the defender of the middle class against GOP class warriors on behalf of the wealthy.

A senior administration official tells me that parts of Obama’s “class warfare” broadside were ad-libbed.1 Here’s the key chunk — and it’s a script that could have been written by just about any card-carrying member of the “professional left”:

Warren Buffett’s secretary shouldn’t pay a higher tax rate than Warren Buffett. There’s no justification for it. It is wrong that in the United States of America, a teacher or a nurse or a construction worker who earns $50,000 should pay higher tax rates than somebody pulling in $50 million…

We’re already hearing the usual defenders of these kinds of loopholes saying, “this is just class warfare.” I reject the idea that asking a hedge fund manager to pay the same tax rate as a plumber or a teacher is class warfare. I think it’s just the right thing to do. I believe the American middle class, who’ve been pressured relentlessly for decades, believe it’s time that they were fought for as hard as the lobbyists and some lawmakers have fought to protect special treatment for billionaires and big corporations.

Nobody wants to punish success in America … All I’m saying is, that those who have done well, including me, should pay our fair share in taxes to contribute to the nation that made our success possible.

Class warfare, my shiny black ass.

I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.

1 Teleprompt this, bitches.

2 Yes. I am grumpy today. What gave it away?

[via Think Progress; via Addicting Info

[cross-posted at Angry Black Lady Chronicles]

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150 replies
  1. 1
    Paul in KY says:

    If you parse his comments, he is saying AFTER he has paid all his living/food expenses, he only has $400,000 left over.

    I weep bitter tears.

  2. 2
    MariedeGournay says:

    Tempting Madam Guillotine there buddy.

  3. 3
    Tom65 says:

    It’s only “class warfare” when the middle class strikes back.

  4. 4
    4tehlulz says:

    inb4 racism

  5. 5
    D2 says:

    Doing some more of the math, Rep. Fleming said that only $400,000 remains of the $600,000 by the time he feeds his family. What is he feeding his family?

  6. 6
    Tom65 says:

    @Paul in KY: Don’t forget the minimum congressional salary of $174K

  7. 7
    ed drone says:

    A friend of mine, years ago, was complaining that after he paid for rent, car, and food, he didn’t have much left ‘to live on.’ I pointed out that if you paid rent, car, and food, you were living.

    At the time, I made about 25% of what he did, so what was a struggle for me was just one of those nasty irritants on the way to “life.”

    Ed

  8. 8
    The Republic of Stupidity says:

    Further, how dare they claim that asking the wealthy to pay a small percentage more in taxes constitutes class warfare? Are they fucking high?

    No… that would probably make them nicer, if they didn’t freak out completely…

    Basically, they’re just mean, stupid and utterly lacking in compassion, morals, ethics… ya know… a soul…

  9. 9
    Roger Moore says:

    @D2:

    What is he feeding his family?

    Poor people’s babies.

  10. 10
    El Cid says:

    The official definition of “small” business used in economic stats and regulations is having fewer than 500 employees.

    Even if it’s close, I don’t think too many Americans would see a company with 500 employees as a Mom & Pop, or rather, Mom’s & Pop’s Spoiled Little Shit outfit.

  11. 11

    Ah ABL, I take it you liked this morning’s speech?

    It was good. I enjoyed it. What affect will it have? Dunno.

  12. 12
    Egypt Steve says:

    Sometimes the French say it best:

    Les aristocrates à la lanterne!

  13. 13
    biff diggerence says:

    John Fleming (R-Slave State Shithole)

    There !

  14. 14
    dmsilev says:

    So wait, *after* “feeding his family”, he still has something like 8 times the average-American-worker pre-tax income, and this is something we’re supposed to feel sorry about? There should be an annual Marie Antoinette award for least self-awareness of one’s own economic well-being with respect to the rest of the world, and this nitwit just made the finals.

  15. 15
    Gravie says:

    I do hope the video of this smug, entitled asshat whining about “only” netting $400,000/year (after living expenses!) goes viral.

  16. 16
    El Cid says:

    @The Republic of Stupidity: When someone honks at them for not moving when the light turns green, it’s the equivalent of attempting to murder them with sonic weapons.

  17. 17
    Napoleon says:

    I saw Lewis Black this weekend and he went to town on the rich as job creators.

  18. 18
    Jim Pharo says:

    Oh, the outrage! The poor dear…

    I love it when these guys try to get real. The lesson they’ve taught me is that almost nothing they say is true, and generally somehow the opposite of true.

    Class warfare? Where do I sign-up?

  19. 19
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I’ll just take him at his word that he’s going to use his cash to “create jobs”. He’s telling us the choice is between the government hiring people to fix bridges and highways and maybe upgrade some levees and reservoirs, cops, public school teachers, firemen, etc; our other choice is this doofus opening another Subway in a strip mall. I’ll try and look beyond my own utter loathing of Subway sandwiches, and I am not a professional economist, but something tells me the construction jobs do more good for the middle class and the overall economy than this guy putting another high school kid on the Saturday lunch shift.

    Also, too, shrinking down that deficit that people like him tell us is a huge drag on hiring, for some reason.
    Anybody know what benefits are like at Subway and UPS stores? Are they up to the individual franchisee (if that’s the word?) or do they come from the mothership?

  20. 20

    For $400K a year, I could live like a fcking king…

  21. 21
    Tom65 says:

    I really love how he doubles-down when the flabbergasted interviewer points out that his position isn’t exactly palatable.

  22. 22

    […] Fleming: “By the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over.” Blah, blah, blah, class warfare, blah, blah, blah. Job creators. Blah, blah, blah. Share this: This […]

  23. 23

    So each year, he has left over in the bank, a little less than the price of a house in Washington, D.C.

  24. 24
    Calouste says:

    @dmsilev:

    And the prize that comes with the Marie Antoinette award is a coupon for a shave?

  25. 25
  26. 26
    FlipYrWhig says:

    See, here’s the thing. Rich people don’t understand that the rest of us have to use the money we make to PAY OUR FUCKING BILLS. This comes up a lot: they say, well, after I pay my bills and take 3 vacations and send my son Biff the lacrosse star to Choate, I barely have six digits left to sock away for the future! Fuck you, clown.

  27. 27
    Quaker in a Basement says:

    It’s shiny?

  28. 28
    Ash Can says:

    So he says this out loud? In public? On TV, yet?

    This guy is either a left-wing undercover operative, or too brain-dead to be allowed out of the house on his own.

  29. 29
    Montysano says:

    I’ve worked at a small family business for 20 years. Our annual revenue is about the same at $7.5M, with 40 employees, so, as is pointed out above, his math is bogus.

    Also, too: in any discussion of hiring/laying off, I’ve never, not fucking once, heard the owner of our company say “But my taxes went up, so….”. It’s total bullshit. You hire or fire based on demand, period.

  30. 30
    srv says:

    Ralph Nader says something nice about Sarah Palin.

    OMG! Queue hippie punching.

    Actually, he has a good point, her recent anti-corporatist spiels would liven up the the debates if she got in, even Ron won’t go there.

  31. 31
    wesindc says:

    Picking jaw up off the floor. WTF? They really do live in an alternate reality then the average person/family. So if he has a net of 600K after “feeding his family” he only has 400K left over for reinvestment. I could live very well on 200K a year. He must have about a dozen kids and/or they are all very obese.

  32. 32
    Frankensteinbeck says:

    Thank you, conservative echo machine. I am glad that you have finally convinced yourself there are no other voices and you are Average Joe. Please continue to push the ‘poor, abused rich people’ meme. I am sure it will get much better results than the ‘raising taxes means raising everyone’s taxes’ meme – for Democrats.

  33. 33

    He’s a Republican, therefore he’s a REAL AMERICAN and he probably puts the right condiments on his burgers and drinks a REAL AMERICAN brand of beer (owned by a Belgian company) and also Democrats are limousine liberals and elitists.

    Too.

  34. 34

    @srv:

    …her recent anti-corporatist spiels …

    … are complete, 100% Grade A bullshit and if I read one more idiotic blog post headlined “Sarah Palin: Secret Progressive?” I’m going to shoot myself. For real.

    There is nothing real or authentic about Sarah Palin except her craven desire for the spotlight. Period.

  35. 35
    danimal says:

    The trouble that the GOP will soon learn about with the “class warfare” argument is that a hell of a lot of people are ready to become class warriors. Throwing that phrase around doesn’t work anymore.

    /sharpening pitchfork

  36. 36

    Also, let me take this opportunity to re-blogwhore my own post on something stupid I heard on MSNBC related to Obama’s millionaire’s tax:

    GOP Stupidity, Now With Electrolytes

    There is nothing stupider than a Republican talking point.

  37. 37
    Paul in KY says:

    @Tom65: I forgot. Hmmm, he & the wife must be doing the blow pretty hard.

  38. 38
    seabe says:

    I just did the math (assuming he has $400,000 of taxable income). Mr. Fleming would have to pay $7,101.60 more in taxes under Obama’s plan. How many workers will that hire?

  39. 39
    Warren Terra says:

    The important thing here is that, assuming he’s got any sort of remotely sentient accountant, the payroll and other legitimate business expenses are completely deductible – they aren’t part of his company’s taxable income. Companies pay taxes on their net profits, not their gross revenue; it is assumed that those the company is paying will pay taxes on their incomes, instead. So dude’s not even halfway to having to worry about the Buffet Tax.
    This raises the troubling issue of how you can structure the tax so that a genuine company can deduct its payroll and only pay on its profits but a big-earning individual can’t incorporate and concoct a lot of deductible business expenses. But I’m guessing that people who (unlike me) actually know this stuff have a clue there.

  40. 40
    Quarks says:

    To be fair, it’s very difficult to impossible to buy BOTH a Rolls Royce AND a Ferrari when you are limited to only $400,000 spending money per year. So I can see his point.

    Also to be fair, if he’s feeding his family steak at least once per day, and this is the decent steak that costs, say $20 per steak, and there’s four family members, that’s $80 per day, or $29,200 per year, and nobody’s even had breakfast or lunch yet, much less had anything to drink. So a little sympathy here, please.

  41. 41

    @danimal:

    Also, didn’t Michael Bloomburg just say that the streets of America would be running with blood as the angry mobs started smashing things? Didn’t he say something to that effect?

  42. 42
    Chris says:

    Let’s see what his constituents think of that attitude; I bet it’d be even less popular than posting pictures of his dick on the internet.

    Unless, of course, he’s such an asshole that his constituents would *prefer* to let him make that money, vote for the GOP corporate-ocracy, and sabotage their community’s economic prospects.

    (Okay, he’s from Louisiana; it’s not like there are a lot of non-corporate Democrats down there, but still…)

    This is why there should be a rule: once a member of Congress leaves office, he has to go back home. No staying-in-DC-to-take-advantage-of-his-connections; go back and live among the people you claimed you wanted to represent. If you can’t do that, you’re just in it for the money.

  43. 43

    @Quarks:

    Also, I’m sure his children go to private school, instead of whatever shitty public schools they have in Louisiana. That ain’t cheap.

  44. 44

    @seabe:

    Mr. Fleming would have to pay $7,101.60 more in taxes under Obama’s plan. How many workers will that hire?

    Remember, the only part of Obama’s jobs plan the GOP actually said they liked was he support for programs like Georgia Works, where the poor are forced to work for free in exchange for welfare benefits.

    So, actually … lots! Seven grand will pay for a lot of tap water and gruel.

  45. 45
    srv says:

    @Southern Beale:

    There is nothing real or authentic about Sarah Palin except her craven desire for the spotlight. Period.

    Well you say that about Nader too. So if it’s bad for the Dems, why wouldn’t it be bad for the Rethugs?

    I don’t think I can take a year of snore fest debates, we need some sparkles!

  46. 46
    rikryah says:

    you rock.

    sorry, mofo, yes, you have to live off of 33k a month.

    poor baby.

    fuck you

  47. 47
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    I hope the staff at The Rachel Maddow Show is researching his company and running some numbers. I’m guessing this is a district where lovin’ Jeebus is more important than actual life, but this could get seriously embarrassing. Remember that UofC law professor whining about how he could only manage his high-status lifestyle by living paycheck to paycheck (including, IIRC, fully funding all available tax-deferred retirement accounts). THat guy didn’t put out a video or have a congressional office

  48. 48
    srv says:

    @Quarks: This guy may not pay much, but he employs 500 people more than ABL or John Cole do.

    33 Subway stores, you’d need a Ferrari also too.

  49. 49
    walizonia says:

    This guy is full of BS or else a horrible business owner. What business is he in that he can only take home such A small net on such a large gross? Also his taxes will be based on his net 400k so O’s plan will not affect him.

  50. 50
    The Dangerman says:

    Folks, hookers and blow are EXPENSIVE! Give the guy a break.

    I don’t understand how asking the wealthy to sacrifice is “class warfare” but asking the poor to sacrifice is “good American values”?

  51. 51
    Bulworth says:

    If the teabaggers are having a butthurt over taxes maybe they should think again about all the Debt Crisis! Debt Crisis crap they were spewing a few months ago.

  52. 52
    cckids says:

    @walizonia:

    Also his taxes will be based on his net 400k so O’s plan will not affect him.
    Reply

    Yes!!! I’m so sick of people going on TV & complaining, “my small business makes $1 million, or $500,000”, or whatever number they pull out of their asses, & saying that Obama’s tax plan will FORCE them to shut down, or fire people, or not hire people, etc etc to infinity. The taxes come on whatever amount you have left after you’ve driven through all the loopholes & taken all the myriad deductions that are available to you. And there are SO MANY. If, after all that, you still will have a tax increase, well, glory hallelujah for you. BABY, YOU’RE A RICH MAN. Accept it & enjoy it, and quit the bitching.

    My spouse does business taxes & tax planning, and the stuff small businesses can deduct if they structure their business correctly is unending. Many of these wankers are too cheap to pay someone to set things up right, and so pay more in taxes than they should. And they are still RICHY RICHY RICH. Whining bastards.

  53. 53

    @FlipYrWhig: Actually, plenty of rich people DO understand this. However, sociopaths like Mr. R-LetThemEatCake will never be able to understand. The GOP wants to make this about the non-rich against the rich when it is and has always been the non-assholes against the assholes.

    Man, can you imagine working for this creep?

  54. 54
    Ben Cisco says:

    Everyone whining about “class warfare” should catch this bit from an actual domestic terrorist.

  55. 55
    kc says:

    With 400K a year, you’d think he could afford a better hairpiece.

  56. 56
    Mumon says:

    What’s wrong with class warfare? It creates jobs: somebody’s got to oversee the work Fleming does when he’s sent into the rice fields to learn from the wise ways of the peasants, who get to be compensated for teaching folks like him the value of hard work.

  57. 57
    cckids says:

    Also, too, I know this point has been made before, but since when do business owners & entrepreneurs need such a security blanket before they hire people? Can none of them take a risk & jump & trust in the quality of whatever they produce? The whole “business owners don’t know what Obama will do, he is so unfriendly to business/Wall Street” meme is so fact-deficient it burns. I saw Larry Cramer–LARRY CRAMER–on Hardball last week, he couldn’t even say it himself, it was just “That is what they are telling me”. He all but called it bullshit openly & didn’t defend the viewpoint.

    If lower demand is driving businesses lack of hiring, and people won’t start buying/demanding until they get jobs, can they not do the math?

  58. 58
    kdaug says:

    The corollary to this is my other favorite Republican tagline: “Government doesn’t create jobs!”

    Oh really? I’ve got a relative that works for the CDC, one that just retired from the GSA, one who’s an ex-Army Medic who now contracts with the DOD, and another who’s an accountant with the state government. In fact I saw a chart the other day somewhere that said the Federal Government is the largest employer on Earth.

    When you base premises are that a) idle rich create jobs, and b) government doesn’t, you’re starting out so far from reality that it’s unsurprising that your conclusions are unproductive.

  59. 59
    Captain C says:

    I, for one, would love to accept the challenge of trying to live on “only” $400K per year. Hell, if this lying @$$hole wants to give me half his net, I’d try living on “only” $200K per year. I bet I could do just fine.

    Besides, isn’t there a surfeit of cognitive dissonance involved in complaining about how hard it is to live on 6 figures (i.e. at least $8K/month) and then turning around and bitching about how those who only make $12K per year (i.e. no more than $1K/month) are “lucky duckies.” If I were an employer, and one of my well-paid subordinates started whinging along these lines, they’d get an instant pay cut to $12K/year, or they could walk.

  60. 60
    Heez says:

    @Mumon: May 4 farms. I like the cut of your jib. May I subscribe to your newsletter?

  61. 61
    catclub says:

    @srv: “OMG! Queue hippie punching.” Yes, there is a very long line for that.

  62. 62
    28 Percent says:

    @dmsilev:

    There should be an annual Marie Antoinette award for least self-awareness of one’s own economic well-being with respect to the rest of the world, and this nitwit just made the finals.

    What’s sad is how really, terribly unfair that is to Marie Antoinette.

  63. 63
    RossinDetroit says:

    He probably has 500 part time employees with no bennies or health care. Each of those people holds down a second job to make ends meet. Realistically, he could claim credit for 1,000 jobs.
    What a hero.

  64. 64
    aisce says:

    Creating jobs, my shiny black ass.
    __
    Here’s the simple truth: President Obama kicks Dubya’s ass when it comes to job creation

    well, no, he doesn’t actually. which would be his entire political problem here in the year 2011.

    unless we’re pretending that bush vs. obama only applies to the years 2007-2010? because their non-recession year records are basically identical in terms of jobs/month, despite their widely differing policy agendas. which suggests that overarching structural imbalances remain unaddressed…

  65. 65
    Short Bus Bully says:

    Fucking awesome.

    Would love to see this nitty shitheel blasted all over the intertrons and paid advertisements. I’ve been waiting years for some serious class warfare. Every day sees “A Modest Proposal” become more and more relevant, both for class warfare stuff and immigration mama drama.

  66. 66
    RossinDetroit says:

    I read a NYT story over the weekend about a nice NYC private school. Tuition starts at $38K/yr for PRESCHOOL. That’s gotta add up fast. Better give the MOTUs another tax break and apologize for their hardship.

  67. 67
    SensesFail says:

    So who’s ready to hear the two statements “The government doesn’t create jobs!” and “Higher taxes on the job creators will lead to fewer jobs!” uttered non-stop for months, without any factual evidence to back them up, and also without any challenge from the MSM?

  68. 68
    Judas Escargot says:

    @cckids:

    My spouse does business taxes & tax planning, and the stuff small businesses can deduct if they structure their business correctly is unending.

    I think more working people need to know just how many “small businesses” are essentially money-laundering enterprises: That might go a long way to defanging the GOPs abuse of the good-for-small-business meme.

    The non-working wife gets puts on as an employee so her Lexus or BMW can be listed as her “company car”. Home improvements are charged to the “home office”. Dinners out get charged to the Amex Corp card so they can be deducted. Etc etc etc. I’ve seen, personally and up close, examples of each of these. They sure never seem to get caught. And yet they still never stop whining about all the taxes they have to pay for being so “Productive”.

  69. 69
    Elizabelle says:

    I think this “class warfare” argument is going to backfire badly on the Republicans.

    Was that the sound of popcorn and a beer at the White House?

    WRT to the honorable congressman Fleming: he needs to learn some life skills and money management, and maybe his constituents will aid in finding him another line of work.

    PS: If you prefer to call the gentleman from Shreveport by his homonym, Phlegming, it’s in the Urban Dictionary.

    http://www.urbandictionary.com.....0Phlegming

  70. 70
    Ben Cisco says:

    “by the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over.”

    Four hundred thousand left over.
    __
    FOUR. HUNDRED. THOUSAND.
    __
    LEFT OVER.
    __
    No more of the “stupid vs. evil” over this lot, please. I think the votes are in, and it’s evil by a fucking landslide.

  71. 71
    aisce says:

    @ cckids

    I saw Larry Cramer—LARRY CRAMER—on Hardball last week, he couldn’t even say it himself, it was just “That is what they are telling me”.

    larry cramer?

    did cnbc finally get round into merging kudlow and cramer into some sort of primetime wall street superweasel, able to shill twice as much bullish propaganda as a single tv clown? grim news for us all.

  72. 72
    soonergrunt says:

    @seabe: Well, that’s about one more part-timer, give or take.

  73. 73
    cckids says:

    @aisce: aaack. Jim Cramer. His usual schtik is to be an apologist for Wall Street.

  74. 74
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Judas Escargot: I think more working people need to know just how many “small businesses” are essentially money-laundry enterprises:
    and a lot of “small businesses” aren’t that small. here’s the definition from the SBA website
    Manufacturing: Maximum number of employees may range from 500 to 1500, depending on the type of product manufactured;
    Wholesaling: Maximum number of employees may range from 100 to 500 depending on the particular product being provided;
    Services: Annual receipts may not exceed $2.5 to $21.5 million, depending on the particular service being provided;
    Retailing: Annual receipts may not exceed $5.0 to $21.0 million, depending on the particular product being provided;
    General and Heavy Construction: General construction annual receipts may not exceed $13.5 to $17 million, depending on the type of construction;
    Special Trade Construction: Annual receipts may not exceed $7 million; and
    Agriculture: Annual receipts may not exceed $0.5 to $9.0 million, depending on the agricultural product.

  75. 75
    soonergrunt says:

    @Ben Cisco: Can’t see youtube at work. A short description, please?
    Thanks!

  76. 76
    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937 says:

    He makes 6.5 million with 500 employees. Does he own a chain of lemonade stands?

  77. 77
    Roger Moore says:

    @Warren Terra:

    This raises the troubling issue of how you can structure the tax so that a genuine company can deduct its payroll and only pay on its profits but a big-earning individual can’t incorporate and concoct a lot of deductible business expenses. But I’m guessing that people who (unlike me) actually know this stuff have a clue there.

    Yutsano is likely to be the blog’s real expert on this, working for the IRS and all, but I know some of this. There are detailed laws about telling when something is a legitimate business expense and when it’s a taxable employee benefit. For example, if you get a company car the IRS can look at how much you actually drive for work vs. for personal use and treat the personal usage as a taxable benefit. Of course that still depends on self-reported data for most people, since the IRS doesn’t have enough auditors to check everybody. But if you claim to have a bunch of expenses on your corporate taxes that look like taxable benefits, it may be a red-flag for an audit.

  78. 78
    soonergrunt says:

    @srv:
    @catclub:
    I didn’t know that Ralph Nader was a hippie. And while Nader certainly deserves to be punched, hard and often, not all hippies do. Some do, and some do not. But Nader always does.

  79. 79
    RossinDetroit says:

    @Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:

    A lot of the work out there is part time. The rising cost of health care insurance for FT employees has a lot to do with this. Management & owners get health care. They have to offer it to FT employees as well. Solution: fewer FT positions.

  80. 80
    Linnaeus says:

    Hell, we’ve had top-down class warfare for years. It just wasn’t called that, because that would give away the game.

    Maybe it’s time for a little class warfare in the other direction.

  81. 81
    dmsilev says:

    @Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:

    He makes 6.5 million with 500 employees. Does he own a chain of lemonade stands?

    He’s a franchise owner, of Subways and UPS Stores. Figure lots and lots of those 500 employees are part time, and are probably near or at minimum wage for the hours that he does graciously allow them to toil in his service.

  82. 82
    Linnaeus says:

    @RossinDetroit:

    A lot of the work out there is part time. The rising cost of health care insurance for FT employees has a lot to do with this. Management & owners get health care. They have to offer it to FT employees as well. Solution: fewer FT positions.

    Tell me about it; I currently work three part-time jobs, and between them, I’m lucky if I get 20 hrs/wk. Next month, I’m going to lose my health insurance that I got from my previous job. Not even sure if I’m going to try to buy an individual plan.

  83. 83
    Judas Escargot says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    and a lot of “small businesses” aren’t that small. here’s the definition from the SBA website

    Wowsa. I knew that the administrative definition of “small” was larger than you’d expect… but those numbers are ridiculous.

    When a GOPer utters the words “small business”, the intent is for the listener to think of all the self-employed small-timers that they know. You wouldn’t want to raise your Uncle Bill’s taxes, would you? His little retail store is barely making it! And he employs six people!

    Your numbers put the lie to that. And even for the genuinely small, I still stand by my observation that while Uncle Bill may very well be an honest businessmen, there’s a lot of tiny businesses that abuse the tax code for personal reasons, because it’s just so damned easy.

  84. 84
    redoubt says:

    @The Dangerman:This guy reminds me of the Subway franchisee I worked for almost a lifetime ago.

    His general manager was fond of saying things like, “Work smart. Don’t work stupid.”

    After I left, he fired her after she caught him stealing from multiple store safes to party pay his bills.

    Wonder what happened to him, and her.

  85. 85
    28 Percent says:

    @Warren Terra: What I’d like to see is this kind of people = corporations thinking merged with the (I think) Mississippi referendum which would redefine “person” to include all human zygotes. How long before a millionaire transfers his assets to an incorporated frozen embryo? Shoot, do that and there’s no limit on the taxes the embryo could avoid, and what’s the government going to do about it anyway? Can you prosecute an incorporated frozen embryo? Can you imprison an incorporated frozen embryo? How would it tell the difference? And what would it do on conjugal visits? Inquiring minds want to know.

  86. 86
    Scribe9 says:

    So he brings in 6.3 mil per year, and out of that he pays 500 employees AND rent, taxes, “feeds his family” and other expenses and he STILL has 400K left over?

    He must pay those 500 people shit. Glad I don’t work for him.

  87. 87
    soonergrunt says:

    @RossinDetroit: Ahh. The Wal-Mart effect.

  88. 88

    According to Gawker, John Fleming’s bio says he’s the father of 4 kids but they’re all growed up and presumably feeding themselves. So he’s not even putting food on his family.

    Liar, liar pants of fire.

  89. 89

    Woopsies. Make that pants ON fire.

    I liked pants OF fire tho so I won’t edit it. I imagine him spending $200G per year on some really spicy Cajun food.

    {Giggles.}

  90. 90
    Judas Escargot says:

    @dmsilev:

    He’s a franchise owner, of Subways and UPS Stores. Figure lots and lots of those 500 employees are part time, and are probably near or at minimum wage for the hours that he does graciously allow them to toil in his service.

    Well, a Subway franchise costs $150-200K to start up. Is it his fault that none of his employees are able to save up enough to start their own?

    (Answer: Why, yes. Yes it is.)

  91. 91
    Svensker says:

    @Southern Beale:

    LOL. You made me snort.

  92. 92
    jwest says:

    You are a petty, jealous group of small minded people.

    How do you live with yourselves?

  93. 93

    As someone commented over at First Draft, Dems need to frame the “tax millionaires” thing as “Free Enterprise Not Feudalism.” And then run clips of assholes like John Fleming and the other GOPers who keep maintaining that $250,000 is practically poverty-level wages.

  94. 94
    Svensker says:

    @Ben Cisco:

    Everyone whining about “class warfare” should catch this bit from an actual domestic terrorist.

    Ugh.

    “Fire the first shot.”

    Ugh.

  95. 95
    soonergrunt says:

    @jwest:Better it seems, than the asshole who can’t seem to make it on 400K/year net. And unlike him, I’m not exploiting hundreds of people with slave-wages without benefits. So I would have to say that I live with myself quite well, being a better American and a better Christian than him, actually.

  96. 96
    Emma says:

    @jwest: Marvelously well, thanks.

    And you’re a jackal hoping to feed from the scraps the rich throw you from their table. How do you live with yourself?

  97. 97
    El Cid says:

    @Svensker: He barely survived the ACORN onslaught against him. The ACORN forces may launch an attack on him at any time.

  98. 98
    Dr. Squid says:

    @jwest: Troll Grade: F. “You all suck” was tired in the early ’90’s.

  99. 99
    bemused says:

    @jwest:

    I live with myself just fine, thank you. I’m not living under the delusion that if I stick with the GOP, I will, also too, some day be fabulously wealthy or at least quite comfortable.

  100. 100
    Ash Can says:

    @jwest: LOL!

  101. 101
    jwest says:

    Emma,

    If the information is accurate and this guy chose to make his living from Subway franchises, anyone here could do the same. Subway is a notoriously cheap store to open.

    All you need to do is sell or mortgage your home, borrow everything you can from friends and family and invest every nickel into a sandwich shop. Of course, you won’t be able to afford many employees at first, so plan on working 16 hours a day. If you’re lucky and work hard, in a few years you might be able to borrow enough to buy a second store – then you’ll get to put in more hours every day trying to get that one going.

    The point is, this guy took the hard route and now that he has enough Subways and UPS stores that he’s finally making $400 grand a year (pretax), you’re all whining that he’s rich. What kind of people do that?

  102. 102
    bemused says:

    @Emma:

    Ha, we had similar thoughts.

  103. 103
    Admiral_Komack says:

    “First, this “job creators” meme has got to stop. We’ve been waiting for how long for these richity riches to create jobs? And have they created a single job as a result of tax cuts? NO.”

    These motherfuckers aren’t creating jobs, and they SHOULD be paying taxes.

  104. 104
    dmsilev says:

    @jwest: Quite well, thank you, and I manage to support myself on well under $400K a year net income.

    What I object to, and I’m hardly alone here, is someone who is netting several hundred thousand dollars a year complaining that they’re living on the edge and just barely making ends meet.

  105. 105
    Admiral_Komack says:

    It it’s class warfare, the rich are winning…and it’s a fucking massacre.

  106. 106
    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937 says:

    @jwest: You don’t know him so you have no idea how he funded his first store nor how much he works.

    We’re not whining that he is rich, HE is whining that he is poor. Learning comprehension is a wonderful thing. Go get some.

  107. 107
    NonyNony says:

    @jwest:

    You have no evidence that he did any of this.

    In fact, he appears to have joined the Navy to “help pay for his medical degree”, opened a private medical practice after leaving the Navy, and has used the excess funds to become an investor.

    So basically he got his education paid for by the US Taxpayers, made his money in a practice that very likely gets money via Medicare and Medicaid, and then turns around to use that money to buy franchises. He may, in fact, be the beneficiary of loans made through the SBA as well – many franchise owners go that route.

    That story is just as likely what you posted. More likely, in fact, because it takes his bio from Wikipedia into account.

  108. 108
    Enhanced Voting Techniques says:

    @jwest:

    The point is, this guy took the hard route and now that he has enough Subways and UPS stores that he’s finally making $400 grand a year (pretax), you’re all whining that he’s rich. What kind of people do that?

    Ah the straw man troll.

    No Jwest. He is whining at he can barely survive on $400K after taxes, food and shelter. Apparently he spends like $200K on food alone. What is he, the King of England with a dinning expense like that?

    And do you seriously believe $6.3 million dollar an enterprises are created by starting a sandwich shop? LOL

    Keep on trying Jwest with that trolling.

  109. 109
    Admiral_Komack says:

    @danimal:

    Why are you sharpening a pitchfork?

    Don’t you believe in the Second Amendment?

  110. 110
    jwest says:

    You’re right, this guy is a typical republican.

    He grew up in a working class home, his father died young, mother disabled. After working his way through college he tricked the Navy into paying for his medical degree (in exchange for 10 years of service).

    Not happy with just being a doctor, he opens 33 Subway shops and some UPS stores.

    Why doesn’t Obama just pass a law that locks people like this up?

  111. 111
    AxelFoley says:

    LOL @ this douche.

  112. 112
    singfoom says:

    @jwest: Your strawman is on fire. No one here wants him locked up, you fucking idiot.

    THE POINT OF THIS POST IS TO MAKE FUN OF THE GUY COMPLAINING ABOUT NOT BEING ABLE TO MAKE IT ON 400K A YEAR AFTER ALL HIS EXPENSES.

    Come on, even you aren’t that stupid, are you? A guy who has 400K left OVER after everything else is doing very well, and his complaining is to be mocked.

    That is all.
    (Apologies to everyone else for responding to the troll).

  113. 113
    gelfling545 says:

    @Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen:

    “Man, can you imagine working for this creep?

    He’s probably telling them all now that he’ll have to lay them off if this passes or cut their wages.

  114. 114
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @jwest: Nah, we just want him taxed more. You’re the one who should be locked up.

  115. 115
    gypsy howell says:

    I assume his accountant is aware of the fact that only his corporate INCOME (not revenue) is subject to tax, and that’s AFTER he pays his rent, franchise fees, operating expenses and the paltry wages he no doubt pays his employees. And further, that if his personal income is $400,00 or even $600,000, either of those two numbers are less than $1,000,000, and hence would not be subject to the millionaires tax.

    I assume his accountant knows this. It’s possible that he, as a super successful 30-franchise owning titan of business, is also vaguely aware of how our tax system works as well.

    In other words, he’s full of shit.

  116. 116
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @wesindc:

    According to his official bio, he and his wife have four adult children and two grandchildren. Let’s just assume for a minute that all four kids, and their spouses, and the two grandkids, ALL live with John and Cindy, and he provides all their meals.

    So if, as he implies, he spends around $200,000 a year on “feeding his family,” and that family (very unlikely) consists of 12 people, that comes to $16,666 per annum for each man, woman and child in the Fleming extended family. About $45/day/person each and every day of the year, including Sundays and holidays.

    As the President said today in only a very slightly different context: “It’s not class warfare, it’s math.”

  117. 117
    The Spy Who Loved Me says:

    Two points:

    1. He didn’t say he had only 400K to live on a year. He said that was the amount of money he had available to reinvest back into his business. He was rather inarticulate the way he said it, but the point still stands. You put it back into expanding the business, you’re not using it to support what is no doubt a very comfortable lifestyle.

    2. If President Obama wants to make sure ole Warren pays at least as high a percentage as his Secretary does, he could do the following:
    -Get Congress to raise the capital gains tax. First and foremost, that’s why Warren pays less. He chooses to take a very small salary from Berkshire, and instead, as majority share holder, takes his money out in dividends and capital gains.
    -Get Congress to eliminate the carried interest rule. This is another way ole Warren legally lowers his tax bill.
    -Eliminate the cap on Social Security withholding. Once again, Warren only pays into Social Security on a scant portion of his income. Considering he’s the richest man in America, he can well afford to kick in a few extra bucks.
    -Obama wants to restrict deductions to a max of 28% for higher tax brackets. We need a Buffet Deduction rule in addition to the Buffet tax. Don’t let ole Warren deduct any of the charitable contributions he makes to his own foundation. It’s nothing but a tax avoidance scheme (personal taxes now, and estate taxes later) for him.
    -Encourage ole Warren to pony up the billion or so in back taxes the IRS has been fighting Berkshire for over the last eight years or so. If Warren is so concerned about lack of tax revenue, he could make a pretty good dent in increasing revenues if he’d just pay the fucking taxes he already owes.

  118. 118
    DBrown says:

    @jwest: You are either stupid or don’t read the posts. No one says this as$hole shouldn’t be rich. Only that he is a liar or he dosen’t understand what he is saying since Obama stopping the bush tax give-away would cost him a meare $7K. Try reading the posts so stupid isn’t your normal.

  119. 119
    Montysano says:

    @jwest:

    you’re all whining that he’s rich. What kind of people do that?

    No, shit-for-brains, we’re mocking his statement that he only has $400K left after all expenses, personal and business, are paid.

    And…. do you really think that Fleming, an MD and an author, ever spent 16 hours a day slinging cold cuts in a Subway?

  120. 120
    Mnemosyne says:

    @jwest:

    What kind of people do that?

    People who think it’s ridiculous for millionaires who have $400K left over after all of their other expenses are paid to run around complaining about how very, very poor they are and how we should all feel sorry for them.

    I want someone to explain to me when millionaires decided that we had to love them. I mean, they don’t have enough sycophants on their payroll already? They have to feel secure in the love and admiration of total strangers, too?

  121. 121
    Mnemosyne says:

    Also, this guy reminds me of the douchebag last year who put up his blog post complaining about how little money was left over after he paid the mortgage on his million-dollar house, the loan on his BMW, and the private school for his kids. Because, after all, it’s not like people who make less than he does have mortgages, car loans, or school bills, so clearly it was a personal insult to him that he had to pay for these things.

    Of course, I’m sure jwest will come back to tell us that it’s just mean of us to make fun of someone who whines about their million-dollar mortgage — don’t we understand how much harder it is to live on $1,000,000 a year than it is to live on $30,000 a year?

  122. 122
    ruemara says:

    @aisce:

    Actually, he does. Hence the graph. Because creating even a net zero job growth for 1 month is better than the shedding of thousands of jobs in prior years.

  123. 123
    Thymezone says:

    It’s time to tell the Job Cremators, er, I mean creators, to get off their greedy and chickenshit asses and start creating some fucking jobs. Now. Their excuses, if accurately reported, which is doubtful, are bullshit.

    Just create the jobs. Build things, do things, take business risks, just like they say you are supposed to do. And tell your whiny Republican lapdogs to shut the fuck up and pitch in.

    Now if this idea has already been posted here, don’t worry, I will still take credit for it. I don’t have time to read the thread.

  124. 124
    Tone in DC says:

    I’ll feel sorry for Fleming when monkeys fly out of Boehner’s orange ass.

  125. 125
    Robert Waldmann says:

    With opponents like Fleming how can Democrats lose elections ?
    Yes he is lying. Also, and I’m sure more effectively, he is misleading people. The $6.3 million is not relevant to a discussion of Federal taxes, since they are levied on net income (profits) not revenues. Joe the plumber thought Obama wanted to make him pay higher taxes because, in his dreams, he would soon own a firm with sales over 250,000 per year. A progressive tax on sales would have a significant effect on employment. But no one has proposed such a thing.

  126. 126
    DFH no.6 says:

    Hey, all, jwest isn’t just a troll, he’s a fucking fascist. Which makes him the enemy.

    He and his fellow fascists (like this Fleming asshole) have declared war on the rest of us (their ultimate dream, of course, is the infamous “boot stamping on a human face – forever”). Because that’s what fascists do.

    They’ve even given their war clever, catchy labels that all the media use, like “Culture War”, and (since fascists project like motherfuckers) the current favorite “Class War”.

    Not a shooting war, not yet, but a war nonetheless, with the prize being the power and wealth of our mighty and collective civilization.

    We (most of us here) would like that power and wealth distributed far more broadly throughout society, fascists want them mostly in the hands of a chosen few.

    We believe in liberty and justice for all (including economic justice). They believe in Ayn Rand (and a thoroughly twisted, Non-Sermon on the Mount Jesus, who may as well be called John Galt of Nazareth).

    Those are the stakes, and since the time of the detestable Reagan, the fascists have been ascendant (in America, and to a lesser degree in Europe).

    I may be too pessimistic, but I don’t see that changing any time soon.

  127. 127
    Feudalism Now! says:

    Oh Mighty Job -Creator, the peasants are rebelling!
    They’re definitely revolting.

  128. 128

    His full quote was:

    “Yeah, that’s before you pay 500 employees, you pay rent, you pay equipment and food. The actual net income of that was only a mere fraction of that amount….I would say that since my net income, and again, that’s the individual rate that I told you about, the amount that I have to re-invest in my business, and feed my family is more like $600,000 of that $6.3 million, and so by the time I feed my family, I have maybe $400,000 left over to invest in new locations, upgrade my locations, buy more equipment, all of that.”

    That last part, the part you somehow left out, is important, because it changes his point from ‘I’m rich and hate poor people’ to ‘I want to invest in jobs and America and stupid Democratic policies aren’t helping’.

    You can read and do your own research, right?

    Sad… so sad… ha ha ha ha ha… idiots, all of you…

  129. 129
    soonergrunt says:

    @jwest: If he came from being poor to living a life whereby he exploits hundreds of poor people by barely paying them a living wage in part-time jobs with no benefits, after having had all sorts of hand outs from the American taxpayer handed to him, then he’s even more of a shitbird than I thought. He shouldn’t be locked up. He should be repeatedly kicked in the balls for not having any sense of morality other than “fuck you, I got mine” nor knowing from whence he came (if he did, in fact come from that) and not helping others make it out.
    You, OTOH, should be kicked in the balls repeatedly so that you won’t reproduce and poison the gene pool with your stupidity. You’re lowering the average IQ for the entire country.
    Fuck him, and fuck you too.

  130. 130
    Dr. Squid says:

    If he has 33 stores and is making 6.3 million revenue a year, his stores suck. Average per store revenue is about 1.5 to 2 times higher than his franchises.

    It’s like the only thing keeping his franchises in bidness is a government bailout.

  131. 131
    DFH no.6 says:

    “Job Creators”. Here’s why that term is so pernicious:

    It’s not just that the creation of new jobs is a multifaceted operation (with those ponying up the capital just a part of the complex equation) so calling one favored group “Job Creators” is simplistic and misleading.

    It’s that it makes it sound as if our Galtian Overlords were bestowing their beneficence on the rest of us peons, who should be eternally grateful that these great and wonderful men allow us anything at all. As if private sector jobs in our modern economy were in essence patronage, provided by the Creator-Lords in their wisdom and mercy (that is, as long as we don’t forget our place and ask too much).

    Right now, though, the Creator-Lords have a sad – we have not only asked too much of them, but we have shown that our worship of them is weak and unworthy, proven be the fact that the man in the White House is not only not-Republican, but even worse, he is near.

    There is only one way for us to get back in Their good graces, only one way to assure the Creator-Lords that we are worthy, once again, to receive the gift of jobs . We must repent (in November 2012) and do penance (economic austerity for the masses would be a most appropriate sacrifice).

    “Creators”. I’m a thrice-damned atheist, but I think that comes awful fucking close to blasphemy (maybe that’s the lapsed Catholic talking). And it’s no accident, either.

    Simplistic, misleading, and grandiose, this term was chosen, and is used, deliberately. Another in a long line of bullshit but clever marketing terms employed to great effect by the fascists. Working fairly well for them so far, I think. Gets the peons (or a significant subset of them, anyway) “thinking right” about their betters.

  132. 132
    soonergrunt says:

    @A Conservative Teacher: No, you stupid paste-eating motherfucker, that’s not the point. The point is that he only $400,000 to do whatever the hell he wants after he pays all of his bills, and under the President’s plan, he’ll only have $393,000.
    Jesus H. Christ on a popsicle stick, you claim to be a teacher? You don’t teach Math, or Logic, or Philosophy, or English, do you?
    So he claims that he only has $400K to invest in other business opportunities? So he doesn’t understand the fucking tax code, and neither do you, apparently. If he were actually investing, he could buy a whole ‘nother Subway franchise, building and all, and put another 20 people to work part-time without benefits for minimum wage.
    You’re actually trying to claim that the extra 7k in taxes will prevent that? Really?

    Probably lose money on the inefficiencies of having to remedially educate them if you were ever their teacher, but you probably teach Typing and Gym, so there’s not much lost.
    So tell me, one public servant to another–why is it that all the conservatives I meet in government service are themselves walking conservative stereotypes of government employees–lazy, dishonest, marginally competent time-card punchers going through the motions and doing just enough to not get fired as they meander aimlessly to retirement?

  133. 133
    Barry says:

    The rich have been living exceptionally high off the hog for thirty years now – time for them to PAY IT BACK!

  134. 134
    Scuffletuffle says:

    @soonergrunt: God, I need a cigarette!

  135. 135
    honus says:

    then there’s this: of he reinvests them money to start another franchise, it’s not taxable.
    signed,
    Honus, the tax lawyer

  136. 136
    PhoenixRising says:

    @Judas Escargot:

    The non-working wife gets puts on as an employee so her Lexus or BMW can be listed as her “company car”. Home improvements are charged to the “home office”. Dinners out get charged to the Amex Corp card so they can be deducted… They sure never seem to get caught.

    Now, let’s all take a breath here. First off, I DO work in the family business, and it’s a Ford, not a Lexus. Far more importantly, though: We’re not in danger of being “caught”. The tax code is designed to allow those of us who are taking risks with our money the same kind of deductions that GE gets. (Remember GE, which paid no taxes in 2010?) I refuse to accept that I’m doing anything unethical by playing under those same rules.

    If you, like me and Warren Buffet, agree with the President that there’s a problem with that tax code–call your Rep.

    This dumba** whining about netting 400K a year on his franchises, which were most likely funded by the SBA, deserves all the mocking you have the energy to dish out. Is Tumbrels-R-Us open this late?

  137. 137
    Dr. Squid says:

    What’s the franchise fee to open an Applebee’s salad bar?

  138. 138
    WaynersT says:

    He is a full time REP at $180k a year –
    so the $400k income must be from “work” he doesn’t even have to spend any time at – otherwise known as ‘GRAVY”

  139. 139
    jake the snake says:

    @Feudalism Now!:

    Count De Monet: “The peasants are revolting!”

    Louis XVI: “Yeah, they stink on ice!”

  140. 140
    karen marie says:

    @A Conservative Teacher: Having “only” $393,000 to reinvest instead of $400,000 means he might as well throw up his hands and walk away.

    You can change your nick, jwest, but you’re still the same troll.

  141. 141
    John M. Burt says:

    @Elizabelle: Your assault on the phlegming Mr. Fleming is liable to inadvertently offend the Flemish people of Flanders.
    You should watch that, phlegmatic though they are known to be.

  142. 142
    Ruckus says:

    @Captain C:
    I’ll do you one better. I’ll live on this assholes 400K for 10 yrs. $40K a year after taxes? I can live on that. Easily. Not royally but pretty damn easily. Right now I’d almost kill(break a kneecap at least!) for $40K a year take home. And that’s before rent, food and so on.

  143. 143
  144. 144
    isildur says:

    I think that, regardless of whether or not this guy having to pay an extra $7k a year is ‘fair’ (and I think it’s way more than fair, it’s not going far enough), we’re rapidly approaching a point where academic arguments of just how he made his money and what kinds of jobs he creates with it are going to be irrelevant.

    Because there will be houses burned down and people strung up. It’s actually a little surprising that this hasn’t happened yet; a quick perusal of Zinn’s A People’s History will show how frequently the poor and disenfranchised turned to torches and riots through most of American history.

    Eventually, people like this asshole will learn to keep their fucking mouths shut as a survival reflex.

  145. 145
    joeshabadoo says:

    @PhoenixRising:
    If you are really playing under the same rules as GE you pretty much are doing something unethical. Comparing yourself ethically to a giant hulking behemoth with military contracts doesn’t make you seem sympthetic. If someone else does something it doesn’t make it ethical for you to suddenly do it to.

    You aren’t playing under their rules though so drop the comparison. I find it absurd that you could even compare your small business tax wise to giant multinational corporation, particulary because most multinationals avoid taxes by finagling the books so the profits get sent to some tiny subsidiary in favorable tax country A-C.

    You also act like he is talking about you. He’s not. He is talking about small businesses he sees nearby that charge personal expenses on the company account and give family members “jobs” so they can have benefits like company cars. Your company never came into question.
    When talking about ethics you should have said something about not doing the things he mentioned that you aren’t supposed to do instead of the illogical GE comparison.

  146. 146
    fuckwit says:

    I’ve long been tired of these dickheads calling themselves “job creators”, like they are some kind of Galtian geniuses.

    What irritates me even more, is a few people saying that capital and the rich have, in true Galtian fashion, gone “on strike”.

    Well, I say: PULL A REAGAN AND FIRE THEIR ASSES THEN.

    Sorry rich fucks, your job was to be “job creators”, you failed, willfully, and went on strike, now you’re fired.

    I think every single last American is a job creator and can be one.

    Lock out the rich.

  147. 147
    Sanka says:

    Who the fcuk cares how much anyone else makes? Why is it your business?

    Oh wait, maybe the teachers unions need more money to bite fingers and engage in natural born thuggery against their “enemies”. Or maybe more money to psis away on loan another bankrupt solar panel company.

    Obviously he’s full of BS. Or wait, he’s a republican, so it’s likely he has 500 sub-minimum wage workers.

    Yes, Republican business owners pay their employees nothing. For what’s considered a “fair” wage, let’s ask former Speaker Pelosi how much she pays her migrant workers plucking grapes in the Pelosi Vineyard in Napa valley. I’m sure they make six figures with gold-plated benefit plans.

    Fcuking benevolent employers them grandstanding libs, yep.

  148. 148
    Sanka says:

    Sorry rich fucks, your job was to be “job creators”, you failed, willfully, and went on strike, now you’re fired.

    Good luck with that, genius.

  149. 149
    Jebediah says:

    @Sanka:

    Who the fcuk cares how much anyone else makes? Why is it your business?

    Deliberately missing the point at the top of your lungs doesn’t make you clever, it just makes you a very typical troll.

  150. 150
    Tired of Arrogant Lying ELected Types says:

    JOHN FLEMING: DC Shyster/Politician
    Washington DC Office
    416 Cannon HOB
    Washington, D.C. 20515
    P: (202) 225-2777 CALL
    F: (202) 225-8039

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