This story about Medal of Honor winner recipient Dakota Meyer is remarkable. The picture is him having a beer with President Obama, at Meyer’s request. Obama’s call to tell Meyer he had won the medal had to be rescheduled because Meyer didn’t want to miss any work. Meyer is the first living Marine to receive a Medal of Honor since Vietnam. He received the award for action in a clusterfuck of a battle in Afghanistan.
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schlemizel - was Alwhite
The thing I wonder about but have not seen explained – why did his officers deny permission – repeatedly – for the mission? Why did they deny artillery support? Was it because there were civilians in the area or what?
I have read that these officers were ‘disciplined’ for their failures but that can mean a lot of different things in the service.
Finally, there was a Marine captain with them on the rescue with them. He is the ONLY person in the group to receive NO commendation for his actions that day. Does that tell us what the USMC really thinks about the officers that denied the mission in the first place?
cleek
also, reportedly, the beer is called “White House Honey Blonde Ale” and is made with honey from bees kept at the WH.
mistermix
@schlemizel – was Alwhite: I think you meant “Army Captain”
Donut
My sincerest thanks Sgt. Myers and to all of you who have served and put yourselves at risk for the benefit of others. We owe you every advantage we can think of when you come home. I hope the President had the forethought and took the time to talk to the Sgt. about what the country can do better for vets when you return home. That’s all I can say.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Great post but I suspect Sgt Meyers would prefer the more appropriate “recipient” as opposed to “winner”.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
After the battle coalition forces speculated that elements within the Afghan National Police forces and local villagers had informed nearby Taliban forces of mission’s timing and location. In addition an investigation was launched into the lack of requested fire and air support. While members of the task force publicly blamed McChrystal’s new rules of engagement, which were also cited by personnel at the command post, the investigation placed most blame on the battalion leadership concluding it had been “negligent”.[3] The investigation found that three US Army officers at nearby Forward Operating Base Joyce, from Task Force Chosin, a unit comprising soldiers from 1st Battalion, 32nd Infantry Regiment, 3rd Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division, out of Fort Drum, N.Y, had exhibited “negligent leadership” which had directly contributed to the loss of life in the battle. Two of the three officers were given formal reprimands.[8]
schlemizel - was Alwhite
@mistermix:
I think you are correct, my mistake.
I also think more should have been made on Meyer’s request that the day focus on the four men that died, not on him. His quote was “Why should we celebrate the worst day of my life?”
He is a rare and valuable young man and I hope he can find peace within himself.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@schlemizel – was Alwhite: I see no mention of an Army captain or any Army officer, and NCO is mentioned.
arguingwithsignposts
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): good call.
@schlemizel – was Alwhite: i think “honor” instead of “celebrate” would be a good choice of words.
Anya
Since nothing is sacred or off limits to wingnuts, they will somehow find a way to attack the President and claim that he’s disrespecting the troops or they’ll find some bullshit thing to make a controversy out off.
Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer seems like an exeptional young man. I hope he finds peace of mind and is not touched by the horrors of the war. And since it’s early in the day, I hope we did not engage in needless wars.
mistermix
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Yep, fixt.
Omnes Omnibus
@schlemizel – was Alwhite:
Aside from what is in the article, there are a few reasons that a higher HQ might do these things. First though, I want to say that since I was not on the ground there, I do not know if any of these things went through people’s heads or, if they did, whether they were the right decisions. Part of being a military leader involves weighing risk against reward; they may have looked at the situation and decided that SGT Meyers and the others would be risking their lives in an attempt that was unlikely to succeed. The fact that a Medal of Honor was given for this supports the idea that it was almost insanely dangerous. The position that SGT Meyers was occupying could have been considered mission critical and depleting it for the rescue mission could have put other troops at risk. And so on… As far as artillery goes, if they did not have a good idea of where both friendly and enemy troops were, artillery would have been worse than useless. You don’t want to shell your own troops. Also, if the enemy troops were too close to the friendlies, artillery is not really an option. Danger close missions can only get so close before you are firing on your own troops’ positions. Again, I don’t know the situation on the ground, so anything here is speculative. Congratulations to SGT Meyers; he sounds like a good marine.
soonergrunt
As an update to this, former Army Captain Will Swensen, who was with Sgt. Myer at Ganjgal, is also being evaluated for the Medal of Honor, per the Army Times.
There has been a lot of speculation that CPT Swensen was being retaliated against for the things he said after the battle. He directly stated to the AR 15-6 investigators that command and operations staff at both 1/32 INF Battalion and 3BCT/10MTN had improperly denied fire support assets.
Although the battle of Ganjgal took place after I left there, I know the ground having served as an embedded trainer (the same mission that Sgt. Myer and CPT Swensen and the Marines they tried to rescue were doing).
EconWatcher
@schlemizel – was Alwhite:
This guy has not only courage, but class.
stuckinred
@soonergrunt: One of my very good friends was killed in Operation Meade River in November of 68. He was in the weapons platoon and they were sent across a river in front of the rest of the company and were ambushed. His CO was ordered to stay put but he crossed the river and brought each of them back. He was considered for both court martial and an award for valor.
Cat Lady
I had no idea you could get a Medal of Honor after disobeying orders – I guess it means if you’re going to, you go big or go home.
Sgt Meyer is 23. That’s SO young to have such a highly developed inner moral compass. I’d like to meet his parents – they done real good.
arguingwithsignposts
@Cat Lady:
Were those orders? I’m sorta confused, having never been in the military. What weight are orders from other branches?
rikryah
he’s a true hero.
Dr. Squid
FDL response: ZOMG, Obummer caved again!
Betty Cracker
@Anya: They’re way ahead of you — when the photo of Meyer and the president having a beer was released on Twitter on Wednesday (by Jake Tapper, I think), the wingnuts exploded in indignation because they claimed the president was using Meyer for a photo op. Never mind that Meyer requested to have a beer with the president. They’re assholes, pure and simple.
Cat Lady
@arguingwithsignposts:
Not sure if that’s an order or not, since I probably know less than you do. Maybe you can only disobey orders from your own commanding officer. Whatever, he didn’t do what he was told, and that’s always risky.
honus
@schlemizel – was Alwhite: I also think more should have been made on Meyer’s request that the day focus on the four men that died, not on him. His quote was “Why should we celebrate the worst day of my life?”
Pretty similar to my feelings over all the 9/11 brouhaha last week.
Villago Delenda Est
Without having all the pertinent facts at hand,it’s difficult to make any judgment, but the fact that some officers received reprimands for their role in this can’t be good for them personally.
Interesting that the Army captain who is also under consideration for the MoH was so outspoken and apparently suffered for it. Whistle blowing is always a dicey proposition, and even with an MoH on your record, failure to be true to the thin green line (particularly if members of the West Point Protection Association are involved) can be detrimental to your career as well.
Villago Delenda Est
@arguingwithsignposts:
From outside your own chain of command? Substantially less serious than if someone directly in your chain of command issued the order.
Also, there’s the classic rule of “do it and ask forgiveness, as opposed to asking permission to do something you think is necessary and being denied authorization to do so”. If you’re in a situation where only you have all the relevant information (some guy back at a command post can’t know everything) that’s going to weigh heavily in how the investigation of the incident reports the event.
soonergrunt
Here is the Medal of Honor citation in full:
RP
#19 made me LOL.
Ash Can
“Mr. President, I’d like to have a beer with you.”
Heh, indeedy.
Samara Morgan
pretty much all the battles in A-stan were clusterfucks.
Bush put our troops into an unwinnable immoral unjustistifiable meatgrinder.
which, as im constantly reminding y’all, we are gettin FUCKING NOTHING out of but empty pocketbooks and the undying of dar ul Islam.
the juicitariat fetishishes the military just as much as the teabaggers.
Paul in KY
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): This young man is from Kentucky. Fine representative of our state.
On an unrelated note, Mike Siganos, one of our old UK defensive backs from the glorious 10-1 1977 season (that included a win at UGA), passed away last week. This was the guy who would never fair catch a punt. Don’t know if you remember him.
Samara Morgan
undying ENMITY, lol.
Paul in KY
@Villago Delenda Est: Generally speaking, a ‘Letter of Reprimand’ in an officer’s file will kill all future hopes of promotion.
It works like this: 99.5% of officer candidates for promotion will not have one of those in their files. Thus you are ‘differentiated’ (not in a good way) from all the others the boards are trying to sort through.
Gin & Tonic
@soonergrunt: “Intrepidity”? They really wrote that? What an awkward word. There are so many more mellifluous synonyms: fearlessness, heroism, gallantry. I just wonder why they chose that one.
soonergrunt
@Gin & Tonic: “Gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty at great risk of life” is the statutory language describing the requirements to award the Medal of Honor. That language goes back to the civil war, when the medal was first authorized.
Amir Khalid
@Samara Morgan:
You seem to be having an intermittent problem with your apostrophe key. Better get that fixed.
Gin & Tonic
@soonergrunt: Thanks, I didn’t know that.
The Moar You Know
@Samara Morgan: It may have escaped your attention that quite a few of us are either active-duty, reserve, or retired military. Including the guy who runs this here blog. Something that you can’t say about most of the teabagger contingent, by the way. So I wouldn’t necessarily say that we fetishise it so much as that we are simply very familiar with it.
As to this:
Believe me, the troops are quite aware of this.
grandpajohn
@Betty Cracker:
Photo op? like bushes”mission accomplished” landing on the carrier or his “fake turkey” thanksgiving appearance in IraQ
soonergrunt
@The Moar You Know: Don’t feed the moron. She’s probably late for another Intro to Comparative Religion course at the local community college. She’ll probably convert to Hindi at the end of the semester.
Of course, considering the barely hidden glee with which she has speculated about mass killings of US military personnel in prior threads (Omnes called her out just last week) I have to give her credit for the chutzpah in using the term “our troops” so completely unironically.
grandpajohn
@soonergrunt: YEAH I would say that those actions qualified him for the medal. sounds like something out of a hollywood superhero movie, you know the kind that makes someone who was never in service into a model killing machine
Dr. Squid
@grandpajohn: Well, yeah, because dontcha know it’s completely outrageous if the photo-opper isn’t a conservative because conservatives are so awesome and have they told you how conservative they are while dunking their noses into a shitbucket?
soonergrunt
@grandpajohn: Except in this case, the montage was about three years long.
BTW, that sequence in Team America World Police is funny as hell “Always fade out in a montage…if you fade out it makes it seem like more time passed in a montage…”
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@Amir Khalid: You crack me up! Thanks – it’s not as easy to do as it once was.
@soonergrunt: Chutzpah she has got, in abundance.
grandpajohn
@soonergrunt: I think the photo op that best characterized the real bush was this one,
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=bush+blank+stare&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&biw=792&bih=448&tbm=isch&tbnid=j-Bafiwxn5dnOM:&imgrefurl=http://ross613.wordpress.com/2011/07/29/ten-years-after-911-bush-says-blank-stare-meant-to-project-calm/&docid=2GnjF2WDGGdHmM&w=339&h=306&ei=fmNzTrjJH5O3twf-h5SlDA&zoom=1
karen marie
In re the president and Meyer having a beer: Wut, no peanuts? No snacks?
soonergrunt
@grandpajohn: You can just see the gears
turninggrinding: “Calm. I must project calm…what the heck?…how do I project calm?… I just wanted to be President to show up my old man. I didn’t want to actually DO anything! Clinton did all the hard work, I was just supposed to coast for four years…what’s for lunch? Is the Air Force One pilot a muslin?…I hope not…Maybe I can get Laura to make a PB&J with the crusts cut off. I don’t like the ones the cook on the plane makes…”Scott
From Armed Forces Press Release:
When the president’s staff called the young Marine so the commander in chief could officially notify him of the medal, Obama said, Meyer was at work on his new civilian job at a construction site.
“He felt he couldn’t take the call right then because, he said, ‘If I don’t work, I don’t get paid,'” Obama said.
“So we arranged to make sure he got the call during his lunch break,” the president added.
A little different take on the conversation. On first blush, this outraged me. I just hope this isn’t as bad as it sounds: that his employer put his work over the fact that he was a MOH recipient and the President was calling.
28 Percent
OMG I have that exact same patio set.
Alert David Brooks, the President shops in the Garden Department at Lowe’s. But he probably still doesn’t get lunch afterward at the Applebee’s salad bar, so he still isn’t “authentic.”
And it’s probably unpresidential, also, too, to have a patio set that’s stamped steel instead of cast iron. The Founding Fathers wouldn’t have had stamped steel patio sets, you can be sure of that. If it’s steel at all, I don’t remember exactly. Some kind of metal. But that’s the point: even the patio set is inauthentic.
wilfred
I’m supervising Discourse Analysis for students this semester. This is my px:
The DYNAMIC young president sips beer with the WHITE young marine heroic superstar. They discuss…what? The Dynamic young marine killing BROWN-SKINNED WOG terrorists? I mean, what else?
How many Americans dead since the BIG AFGHAN SURGE? Name 2.
But the YOUNG President loves his country, and his military, and his young, brave, white, marine, wog killing hero boy.
USA!
Samara Morgan
@soonergrunt: i have military in my family.
doesnt change a thing.
why do y’all have such a hard time with my reversion?
isnt there freedom of religion in America?
im a muslim. OBL and Amir are not. they deny the first pillar. they deny the message of the Prophet and the Noble Quran.
the analogy is…..some of you are christians. but the pre-tribs and dominionists are not, because they deny the teachings of Jesus.
amirite?
soonergrunt
@wilfred: You obviously aren’t teaching critical thinking.
I’ll go you better than just naming two, and I’ll stick to only those I knew personally, and only those who died after the President’s surge:
Bret Isenhower
Christopher Horton
Tony Potter
Joshua Seals
Anthony Patterson
Jared Ewy
Agustus Vicari
Damon Leehan
I knew all of them to one degree or another, and while their political beliefs ran the gamut from hard core conservative to even more liberal than I am, none of them would’ve appreciated somebody trying to use their deaths in the way you have here, and apparently in your classroom.
Please kindly die in a fire, but do so quietly because you aren’t worth listening to, nor pissing on to put out.
Yutsano
@Samara Morgan:
Why do you persist in the arrogance of naming who is a true Muslim and who is not? Go back and read your beloved Qu’ran and you will see why you are committing a sin which shall weigh heavily upon you.
@wilfred:
You were there? You were at the table? You heard their conversation? Yes? No? If no, then kindly STFU.
(I’m awfully moody for a Friday. :)
arguingwithsignposts
@Samara Morgan:
Fuckin dead girl on purity patrol. pathetic. you reveal yourself every fucking time.
ETA: what Yutsano said.
wilfred
You’re a fraud – I established that ages ago. I haven’t used their deaths – Obama has. If it was up to me, none of them would be dead, they’d be home with their families.
They already died in fires. Many more will, too. Your pathetic faux patriotism when it suits a political purpose is a crime whoever perpetuates it.
burnspbesq
@soonergrunt:
Love the first comment after that Army Times story: “Nothing like a little bad publicity to get leadership to do the right thing.” Sad but true, and just as true in the civilian world.
Bnut
They need to buy Meyer a wheelbarrow to haul his giants balls around in. Semper Fi!
@wilfred: Chad Frokjer and Josh Robinson, both amazing, caring and funny guys . Eat a dick.
Yutsano
@wilfred:
LOLwut?
@arguingwithsignposts: It really pisses me off. She’s almost a cafeteria Muslim. Only those parts that enforce her Kool Kidz character she believes in. There’s a whole realm of Islamic scholarship she’s ignoring willfully. That should tell you all you need to know about the spoiled rich white girl.
Yutsano
@Bnut:
FTFU.
wilfred
Oh, and critical thinking.
Critical thinking. This after WMD in Iraq, Saddam and 9/11,. Jessica Lynch, lying about the childen killed in Af from drone strikes, and on, and on, and on…
And this twat talks about citical thinking. Amazing.
Now as for the people who skimmed the names of the dead. I just haven’t seen any posts about anything Af for a very long time. Good to remember the dead. Congratulations.
nellcote
@cleek:
How cool is it that they make homebrew at the WH?
Elie
@nellcote:
Also cool that they have a couple of beehives… very cool (I know, I am weird but its part of their whole foods and the cool eating garden the Obama’s put in at the Whitehouse.)I am really into local food and sustainability.
Sorry about my little aside…
carry on!
soonergrunt
@Yutsano: I remember who this dumbfuck is now. She used to use a different handle which escapes me now. She used to spam long and I mean LONG, like 1000+word screeds in the threads, about 1 in 5 of which were actually on topic for the thread in which she posted it. Anybody who questioned her or pointed out that she was either off-topic or wrong (which happened about as often) she immediately jumped on with an accusation along the lines of “You’re paid shill of [insert EEEVIL org/group/company/etc here] and I can prove it with BECAUSE I THINK IT IS SO”
I disagreed with her about something, and she declared that I was a paid agent of the DoD. Her evidence was a cross between the fact that I was still in the National Guard at the time (which was common knowledge as you know,) had recently been to Afghanistan (again, common knowledge,) and that she said I was a paid shill, SO THERE!
JoyceH
Dang, of COURSE, the wingers are freaking. Obama has absolutely nailed the ‘guy you’d want to have a beer with’ primary – and the guy who wants to have a beer with him is not some pointy-headed cultural elitist, he’s a military white guy, Medal of Honor winner, and construction worker.
If Obama were Bush, he’d say ‘looks like I won the trifecta’. If Obama were Palin, we’d be seeing “Dakota The War Hero Construction Worker” at campaign rallies.
trollhattan
@karen marie:
If they’d have had pretzels somebody would have taken umbrage at the obvious shot at Bush 43.
soonergrunt
@soonergrunt, 61;
Dumbshit’s old handle is mcclaren.
@trolhatten, 63; LOL
Paula
It frustrates me that there no snacks to go with the beer.
NOW I’M REALLY DISAPPOINTED IN OBAMA.
karen marie
@trollhattan: That, plus this.
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: im a mevlevi Sufi.
please point out where i fail my deen.
you know nothing about Islam, nothing about sufism, and nothing about the mevlevi sect.
you are just another JAFI that endorses the cartoon version/cliff’s notes of al-Islam promoted by Pam Geller and Robert Spencer and Daniel Pipes and Hirsi Ali.
you think our poor oppressed muslimah sistahs need freeing from the “non-WEC” XY oppressors and “harem” culture like Anne Laurie, right?
what is the mission yut?
dude it failed.
no one wants missionary democracy in MENA.
and it took America 10 years and 14.3 trillion dollars to figger that out.
:)
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano:
im questioning. like you christians question the teabaggers who deny the teachings of Jesus and still call themselves christians.
How can a muslim deny the first pillar? How can a muslim deny the teachings of the Prophet?
its the same thing.
:)
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano:
orly? i study Ghazali and Ibn Arabi and Rumi. i quote from them all the time , even here. I read the Generous Quran. I’m a member of several islamic blogs and of Dr. Ghamidi’s blog, Meeran.
Please, do give me some some links to this “whole realm of Islamic scholarship”.
I can always improve.
:)
or would that be the jihad watch realm of islamic scholarship where you apparently get all your information?
Samara Morgan
that reminds me…..was Anne Lauries reference to “harem bait” a racist statement?
On this blog i can never be sure.
im sure AL isnt a racist….or is she?
:)
Samara Morgan
@Yutsano: why arent you grilling Khalid about his muslimness? He hasnt even told the juicers what sect he follows.
:)
maybe you could make a muslim test.
but you are going to need a better source than Pam Geller for the questions.
Have you seen loonwatch?
i wonder if i can get Anne Laurie a cameo.
:)
Omnes Omnibus
@Samara Morgan:
For starters, he isn’t holding himself out as an expert on the subject. For another, I haven’t any evidence from him of the intellectual dishonesty that you constantly display. I am sure Yutsano has other reasons as well. Have a nice weekend.
Caitlyn
Dakota…Jillian, Lindsey, Mom, and I are so proud of you. It seems like yesterday you and Jhardin where at the house just hanging out. I know you don’t feel like a hero. But it wasn’t your fault your men died. You did right by them by bringing them home. You deserve this medal. Have a great day tomorrow at Cow Days. Hope to hear from ya soon.
Samara Morgan
@Omnes Omnibus: im not the intellectually dishonest one. you are the “real” democracy fan, and you never answer any of my questions.
and Khalid is so purporting to be a an expert.
but you approve of him “interpreting” the Quran because hes a maftoon.
THE
@Samara Morgan:
In all fairness, Saṃsāra, Amir Khalid stopped discussing the matter with you as soon as he understood what it was you were trying to establish.
It is you who has interpreted his silence as proof of your belief about him. But you are wrong. Silence is silence — not agreement or disagreement.
You do not know the details of his beliefs, because he has not chosen to share them with you.
Samara Morgan
@THE: bulshytt.
this what Maftoon Khalid said.
im questioning. like the christians here question the teabaggers who deny the teachings of Jesus and still call themselves christians.
How can a muslim deny the first pillar? How can a muslim deny the teachings of the Prophet?
its the same thing.
THE
He chose not to explain his reasoning to you.
Consequently you have no idea how deep or knowledgeable his analysis is.
You don’t even know whether he was talking about all speech or just political speech.
There are Christians who don’t believe the Gospels are the actual teachings of Jesus. The quest for the Historical Jesus has occupied mainstream theology for over a hundred years. It is an extremely controversial subject. There are Christians who don’t believe in the literal existence of a Historical Jesus. There are Gnostic Christians who believe the traditions in the Nag Hamadi library. There are Christians who don’t believe the Nicene Creed. There are Arian Christians; Unitarians.
DavidTC
Corporal Meyer mounted a gun-truck, enlisted a fellow Marine to drive, and raced to attack the ambushers and aid the trapped Marines and Afghan soldiers
You know, reading between the lines of that citation, it sounds like Mr. Meyer and someone else stole a truck. ;)
Switching to another gun-truck because his was too damaged they again sped in for a third time, and as turret gunner killed several Taliban attackers at point blank range and suppressed enemy fire so 24 Marines and soldiers could break-out.
Correction: Two trucks.