NY-9

Mosque-hating Republican Bob Turner whupped David Weprin in NY-9 last night. Proving that he’s a shitty candidate to the bitter end, Welprin refused to concede his obvious loss. Nate Silver has some clear-eyed analysis.

Following up on yesterday’s post, where my main claim was that special elections are tough on the incumbent party, consider this: Since 2008, New York has had four five special elections, in NY-20, NY-23 NY-29, NY-26 and NY-9. In every all but one case, the seat flipped. NY-20, NY-23, which hadn’t been held by a Democrat since the Civil War, is still in Democratic hands even after the brutal 2010 election.

Update: I forgot one special.






61 replies
  1. 1
    schlemizel - was Alwhite says:

    listening on npr this morning – sound bites of morons saying it was obamas position on israel that caused them to vote for turner

    great, just great – help slit americas throat because he is not supportive enough of israel. hope the jews that voted that way enjoy living in the soon to be rechristened jesusland

    i’m going back to bed

  2. 2
    Raven (formerly stuckinred) says:

    Nevada?

  3. 3
    capt says:

    This race is NBD.

  4. 4
    OzoneR says:

    @schlemizel – was Alwhite: Well I heard one woman say she didn’t care about Social Security because she’s retiring in Israel.

  5. 5
    Mino says:

    @OzoneR: I’m pretty sure she was already a Republican, with that attitude.

  6. 6
    sherparick says:

    Ultimately, this result, and the ominous trends Nate Silver discusses in his blog today, are a consequence of the economic and political decisions the Obama team has made since early 2009 when they decided to offer a “low ball” number stimulus in response to the current economic catastrophe and then pivot to “deficit” reduction. Whatever good they did, this is the outcome they are dealing with. They have also never understood the political opposition of Movement Conservativism, confusing it with an old time American political party, and not the mass movement of true believers that it is, with willingness of true believers to do “everything necessary” to advance the cause. Obama and his team fell in love with a meme they created that he was “post-partisan” and could transcend the divisions of the that animated the parties during the Clinton and Bush years. It is one thing to spin BS, but you really fall in trouble when you start believing that BS.

    There is not automatic adoptions of “liberal” or “social democratic” policies in political hard times. Rather, the party that is in power loses and the party that is out benefits. Further, economic hard times bring out resentment, fear, and simple meanness among people, with anger just as like to be directed down or out around the tribal divisions in the social system.

  7. 7
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I disagree vehemently with everything in sherparick’s first paragraph (because I think it discounts the difference between _projecting_ bipartisanship and conciliation with an actual _desire for_ bipartisanship and conciliation), but agree with most everything the second.

    On the subject of this particular election, frankly, if you’re voting for Congress based on nonsense about support for _Israel_ — the one country in the world that gets unstinting support from America no matter how atrociously it behaves — you have serious mental and emotional deficiencies. You might as well be voting based on the War On Christmas.

  8. 8
    texascowgirl says:

    American is clearly itching to have the GOP back in power again. Their ignorance, bigotry and unwillingness to do anything good for country clearly doesn’t really hurt them and I have no idea what to do about that. You can’t keep people from their destiny and I guess that’s true about countries as well. These are the people that Americans want in power. I say fuck it and let them have it. America went against type back in 2008 and in quickly reverting back to type and I really just don’t care anymore.

    Fuck it, Barack. Go back home to Chicago with your girls and enjoy the rest of your life. Let America have the Republicans which they seem to love so much.

  9. 9
    jayackroyd says:

    All voters can do is vote out incumbents. They’re not being offered what they want–jobs, and a secure retirement–by the leaders of either party. 2006, 2008, 2010, and the mid-cycle special elections, they voted out the incumbents. They’ll do it again in 2012 until their needs are addressed.

  10. 10
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Mino: Not necessarily. The identification is with being Jewish, not the political party in this case. It’s why NYC politicians have to have their own foreign policy when it comes to Israel and the Middle East. I’ve known a good number of Jewish Democrats just like that, including one lady whose family spent every Passover in Israel.

  11. 11
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @texascowgirl:

    American is clearly itching to have the GOP back in power again.

    Nah, polls show deep-seated hatred for the Republican party too. I don’t think people are itching to have the GOP back in power. They may be itching for some ass-kicking, though, and often Republicans do a better job of play-acting as ass-kickers.

  12. 12
    Anya says:

    In addition to the sleazy Islamophobic-I love Israel and I will protect it from the Arab loving Kenyan Muslim President campaign, Turner had a better name recognition in the district than his opponent, since he also ran last time against Anthony Weiner and got 41% of the vote. But seriously who cares about this stupid racist district, it’s going to be diluted when it’s mixed with voters less prone to be swayed by misleading ads about a non-existent mosque.

  13. 13
    jo6pac says:

    @OzoneR:

    Were she will receive free health care from US taxpayer dollars. Sweet

  14. 14
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Anya: At this point, I want this to be an all-mosque district, like an American Muslim version of the Vatican.

  15. 15
    Triassic Sands says:

    NY-9 just demonstrated, there is absolutely no lower limit to the intelligence of the American voter.

    I’ve had a lot of friends say they want the worst, most whacked-out Republican candidate to get the presidential nomination, because, they reason, that will be the easiest candidate for Obama to defeat. That may be a bad strategy, since I’m beginning to wonder if there is anyone the American voter won’t elect. Anyone who cares about this country probably should hope Huntsman gets the nod, because he’s the only candidate with even a scintilla of intelligence and sense. Of course, those qualities mean he has no chance with Republican voters. That probably leaves Romney as the safest bet. As hard as it is to imagine, Perry could be elected and he will instantly challenge George W. Bush for the title “Worst President Ever.”

    I listened to the comments made by Republican voters after the GOP debate and they were so bizarrely, completely divorced from reality, I could barely believe my ears. And no one seemed to care how ludicrous their favored candidate’s answers were. And that candidate was Perry. He could make up the most ridiculous answer imaginable about climate change, something even a third-grader would know was complete hooey, and the American voter would applaud the straight talking Governor Perry.

    This country elected (sort of) George Bush twice. The one that matters the most was the second, since he didn’t need the Supremes to hand him the victory. Nope, he did it with a bunch of money, a mediocre Democratic candidate, and what may be the world’s most ignorant and stupid voters.

  16. 16
    Anya says:

    @FlipYrWhig: To increase their fear to eleventeenth, I hope the Nation of Islam and the New Black Panthers open a chapter there, just for shit and giggles.

  17. 17
    Unenthusiastic Obama voter says:

    But…. but… ABL clearly explained the other day that this is the fault of the gays and especially that liar Rachel Maddow who demand gay rights every single time without thinking of the consequences of alienating the bigots among us.

  18. 18
    OzoneR says:

    @Unenthusiastic Obama voter: That was part of it, Orthodox Jewish groups rallied their voters on gay marriage too.

  19. 19
    Steve says:

    I think Weprin is taking too much grief from the blogs. As one story accurately described it yesterday, sure he’s a “mumbling legacy candidate,” but he got out and campaigned and shook the right hands and took the election seriously. He’s probably an average-quality Congressional candidate. This wasn’t some Martha Coakley-style epic fail, in my opinion.

    Something people may not understand about ultra-Orthodox voters in New York is that they are similar to Christian conservatives and yet a swing constituency at the same time. The similarity, in addition to certain conservative views that they obviously share, is that both groups are highly susceptible to bloc voting based upon the directives of religious leaders. There are certain ultra-Orthodox enclaves in New York that have given every single vote to one side or the other in a specific election. The leaders tell the people that they will have more influence if they vote as a bloc, and heck, they’re probably right.

    But the difference is that while the Religious Right has thrown their lot in with the GOP 100%, the power brokers who control these blocs of ultra-Orthodox voters are happy to play ball with both sides, the better to demonstrate the power they hold. New York is mostly run by Democrats so they mostly do better by supporting Democrats in return for political kickbacks at the local level, but this was a perfect opportunity to flex their muscle by backing the Republican in an election that mostly doesn’t matter. Now they’re in a better position to demand whatever they want from the candidates in the next cycle.

    I’d say Obama’s perceived position on Israel made a difference but this sort of realpolitik probably made an even bigger difference. I don’t draw many larger lessons from this fairly atypical district, though.

  20. 20
    mk3872 says:

    Who really gives a flying F ? Not too many districts in the U.S. are gonna have a 50% Jewish voter base.

    Besides, this district goes away next year during redistricting so this “BIG WIN” for the GOP will result in exactly ZERO seats next year.

  21. 21
    Anya says:

    @Unenthusiastic Obama voter: Let me clue you in, people who hate one minority group, generally hate other minorities. Once you’re motivated to vote based on hating someone’s ethnicity, skin color or religion, chances are you hate the gays too. The same way, if you’re a homophobic prick then you are misogynistic asshole as well.

  22. 22
    chopper says:

    @Steve:

    this. it’s interesting that the media is coalescing around the ‘this is a thumping for obama’ meme, although let’s face it, it’s the media. chris christie takes a morning dump that’s so solid it doesn’t require wiping and it’s ‘a slap in the face for obama’.

    that being said, the orthodox are a prime example of a bloc of voters that only have voting power at a very local level. this isn’t a referendum on obama, or a sign that obama has a ‘jewish problem’, outside of this one district. and even then it isn’t a ‘jewish problem’, it’s an ‘orthodox jewish problem’. mostly because his policy with regards to israel isn’t as insane as these guys want.

    hasidic jews are big in nyc, and a few small towns outside, but nowhere else. 95+% of jews in america are non-hasidic. ‘jewish problem’ my ass.

  23. 23
    Unenthusiastic Obama voter says:

    @Anya: It’s gotta be really hard to go through life without a sense of irony and incapable of recognizing sarcasm.

  24. 24
    PurpleGirl says:

    But this district doesn’t have many Hasidic Jews. (They live mostly in Borough Park, Brooklyn in Dov Hikind’s district.)

  25. 25
    Rhoda says:

    Bloomberg has the President at 45% approval today.

    NY-9 doesn’t mean a thing at all IMO. What really means something is the Jobs Act passing; and if it doesn’t pass the failure of it not going through being wrapped around the Republican party’s head.

    What matters more is the fact the Republicans have a real race for the nomination now with Perry in it to win it and Romney going for the jugular here to try to recapture his lead. Picture a long drawn out primary where the message is the Republican party wants to change social security; this is in addition to the Medicare vote we have the House Republicans on record voting for vouchercare. That isn’t something independents will support.

    2012 isn’t going to be easy; but President Obama is a strong contender DESPITE the economy.

  26. 26
    kd bart says:

    To the Orthodox Jews of that district the fact that Weprin, a fellow Orthodox Jew, voted for Gay Marriage in the New York State Assembly might have been the biggest factor of them all. To them that was a total shana.

  27. 27
    Mino says:

    @PurpleGirl: No, I meant her lack of empathy was more characteristic of a Republican voter than a Democratic one. It’s the old, I’ve got mine; screw you.

  28. 28
    Cacti says:

    You win some, you lose some.

    It’s always disheartening to see a politician rewarded with votes for doubling down on bigotry.

    I live in Arizona and see it all the time.

    At least in New York it’s not a statewide phenomenon.

  29. 29
    Mino says:

    @jayackroyd: I agree, voters are furious. But I’m split between believing your theorem or the lemming theorem–that we know, back in our lizard brains, that we have screwed the pooch on climate and are OK with going off a cliff to shorten the agony. Nobody said lemmings were smart.

  30. 30
    Steve says:

    @PurpleGirl: There are more types of ultra-Orthodox Jews than just the Hasidim. Dov Hikind (people may not know the name, but he’s a nutbag State Assemblyman) has a lot of influence in Weiner’s district.

  31. 31
    GregB says:

    Matt Drudge says in big bold letters that this is:

    The Revenge of the Jews.

    More pimping of race, religious and ethnic divisions from the right.

    Our country is in a world of shit.

    Wait until the GOP gets back in power. They’ll be waterboarding leftists and union members in public and their followers will be cheering loudly.

  32. 32
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Steve: Yes I know that. But the comment I was responding to mentioned the Hasidim.

    I’ve been trying to find a map and/or description of the 9th CD before the 1993 reapportionment which redrew districts. When I was growing up the 9th was in North-Western Queens and Delaney was the very long-term Congressmen. Today, part of that area is in Carolyn Maloney’s district; in fact, it’s half of her district. If you look at a map of the 9th, it has a large core centered in Jackson Heights and Forest Hills and sends out tendrils to the south and into Brooklyn and northeast toward Nassau Cty. This configuration came into existence in 1993. While the Jewish component is around 50% of the registered voters, there are large numbers of Latinos, Koreans, and other groups that tend to be conservative. The district is in flux. And with a redistricting in the works, who knows what any district in Queens will look like next year.

  33. 33
    FastEddie says:

    David Weprin has extremely cheesy facial hair. I don’t know what demographic that is supposed to represent.

    Why are these guys so cheesy?

  34. 34
    Kola Noscopy says:

    This outcome clearly shows the wisdom of Nancy Smash and Obama running Weiner out of town on a rail because, oh my god penis, and oh my god he lied, because you know, no other politicians serving in congress have ever done that.

    Self righteous, poseur maroons.

  35. 35
    PurpleGirl says:

    @FastEddie: He doesn’t shave a couple of times a day? He’s a dark-haired man who is going gray. He probably always had a 5-o’clock shadow. (Nixon was infamous for his 5-o’clock shadow and he didn’t shave right before the TV debate with Kennedy, he just put make-up over the hair and he looked terrible.) Perry would have one too, but I suspect he shaves frequently during the day, especially before speaking and photo-ops.

  36. 36
    PurpleGirl says:

    Part of the problem is the “vote the bastards out” attitude, I think. When you do that you have to vote for the opposing party and you don’t consider any actual issues. Of course, it means you risk getting another idiot, just of a different sort. I think that happened in 2010 — and we got a raft of tea-party idiot Republicans.

  37. 37
    sherparick says:

    You can ask culturallly conservative working class voters to transcend their tribal beliefs and prejudices if you can persuasively argue that you are going to improve their material condition. Once, Democrats had the nack for doing this. Not so much now.

    I doubt that very many folks in the 9th District have seen a material improvement in their living conditions the last 3 years. Instead, it pretty well sucks. Further, the Obama administration has never fully embraced a full blooded, passionate defense of Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, explaining what they are and what they do for the average American even when they are not yet drawing the benefit. Instead, it has looked upon them as inconvenient cash drains that keep them from making neo-lberal “investments” in the future. And people stay home who would otherwise vote Democratic in these circumstances. Turner got support from anti-abortion, anti-gay, culturally conservavtive, Likudite orthodox and ultra-orthodox Jews and working class hispanic Catholics unhappy with New York State passing a Gay Marriage Bill. These people were motivated to vote and came out. They will be coming out in November 2012. But will the pro-Gay and environmental groups, so precious in their righteousness get out a countervailing vote in 2012? From the evidence so far, no and we wonder why are movement is going backward.

    In January 2013 we may find ourselves with President-elect Perry, a majority leader McConnell, and a Speaker Boehner. What will be the agenda of this group.

    1. First, I expect some real restrictive voting legislation to come out to try to make the potential electorate smaller, whiter, richer, and just more Republican.

    2. Tax cuts. The Bush tax cuts become permanent. Abolish taxex completely on capital gains (Steve Schwartzman’s entire carry interest income becomes tax free!!), and lower the corporate tax rate while retaining, if not adding more loopholes.

    3. Abolish the Affordable Health Act and block grant Medicaid to the states.

    4. In conjunction with 2 and 3, 20% cuts in non-Defense spending and Medicaid. Large layoffs and furloughs of Government workers.

    5. Some move to bring back the Gold Standard or at least make the Federal Reserve even more rentier oriented than it already is.

    6. Finally, some move to criminalize poverty and bankruptcy, privatize Federal prisions and immigrant detention centers, and create compulsory prison labor, including leasing it out to private companies. Slavery, and the racial stigma of slavery on Brown and Black people will slowly creep back into polite respectable conversation. The David Brooks of the world will remark that placing whole families in detention will preserve teh family and allow the force imposition of solid victorian values on the shiftless poor.

    7. And of course stack the Supreme Court with ever more right-wing judges.

    How much of this will be blocked by the Democratic rump in the Senate? I expect between reconciliation and just a overall ruthlessness, only the voter provisions, if only because the remaining Democrats (hopefully at least 43), will see the necessity of self-preservation). I likewise, despite proposals like Ryan, I just don’t think the Republicans will be able to do anything drastic with Social Security and Medicare, at least in the first two years, and that votes will die before filibusters.

    The neocons and theocons might want a war with Iran, but here I think the recent experience of Iraq will discourage such adventurism. As it is, the extreme austerity and attempt to reimpose a Gold standard will likely prolong, if not aggravate the economic downturn in 2013 and 2014, and as the “ins,” the Republicans will now be the ones to get the full “vote the bastards out treatment” in the current cycle. (This is why I think the Repugs will focus so hard on restricting the franchise, gerrymandering, and frnakly, getting angry at and trying to direct anger against the poor and unemployed as the scapegoat for catastrophe, in order to survive their own unpopularity.

  38. 38
    PurpleGirl says:

    I just posted this at another blog, but it applies here too:

    I’m trying to figure out what keeps the party leadership, at least at the national level, from seeing who exactly lives in any one district and compare that to past voting patterns. It becomes complicated with districts that were redrawn sometime in the past. The 9th CD is one of those — in was redrawn in 1993. Before that is was largely North-Western Queens, an area that is now half of Carolyn Maloney’s district. In 1993, districts became all squiggly-wiggly, with tendrils going to the Bronx, Brooklyn and Manhattan. It screws up understanding how people vote and how voting patterns change. I’m trying to find maps of Queens districts before the 1993 redraws, but I haven’t had any luck yet this morning.

  39. 39
    Matt says:

    Rabbis for Turner? Looks like some folks HAVE forgotten the Holocaust, and all the bigoted nonsense that preceded it. I wonder if they’ll regret their RW cheerleading *before* or *after* Pontifex Maximus Palin orders them to be deported to Israel – gotta get the Rapture started, you betcha!

  40. 40
    wilfred says:

    Not “Mosque-hating Republican Bob Turner whupped David Weprin in NY-9 last night.”

    Arab/Muslim-hating is more likely. His constitutents are racist, bigoted shits who will no doubt be courted based on their racism and bigotry in future elections, just like Weiner.

    Ross Perot had the balls to say: “If you’re a racist or a bigot, I don’t want your vote”. Until politicians from both of our wretched political parties take the same stance we’ll have Turners from both parties.

  41. 41
    kindness says:

    The MSM has already started to use these two elections with their horse race metaphor. Of course they will.

    Ya know when the real shit will hit the fan? When the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas goes before the UN, asks for statehood and the US uses their veto in the Security Council. Problems from it? Obama won’t get any domestic credit for supporting Israel. The other Middle Eastern governments will turn on Washington, I fear more severely than anyone is saying yet. Republicans will successfully use the whole debacle to split the Jewish voters against the socialist Kenyan Mooslim. And all hell breaks loose in the Middle East. Expect the Israeli government to do something really stupid to incite even more violence and retribution because let’s face it, Netanyahu is a complete dick, and would love nothing more than to stick the knife in Obama’s chest (he likes to see the look in their eyes when he kills) and helps to elect the next Republican fascist.

    I hope that isn’t how it goes, but I fear the worst.

    Obama couldn’t have been more wrong about playing the adult in the room. Obama should have been out kicking ass the entire time he’s been in office. He’s been bringing a flyswatter to a gun fight for too long & it’s going to bite him in the ass.

  42. 42
    OzoneR says:

    @sherparick:

    I doubt that very many folks in the 9th District have seen a material improvement in their living conditions the last 3 years.

    the 9th district includes neighborhoods like Forest Hills, Howard Beach, Belle Harbor, Brighton Beach and Mill Basin. These are Upper Middle Class neighborhoods that were fairly untouched by the recession.

  43. 43
    Elie says:

    @Anya:

    Yep to what you say. AND Weprin SUCKED as a candidate. You can’t just throw up any piece of shit to run and that is the local Democratic party’s fault.

    The other thing is that districts with relatively smaller numbers can have odd things swing elections one way or the other. With the irritation of a stupidass Wiener’s dickgate, a bad economy AND a shitty candidate, you wouldnt even have to get to some weird calculus about Israel to see this was going to be bad. If I have to land on something though, I would say Dickgate and a bad Democratic candidate do it for me. No this is not a referendum on Obama though I am sure that the MSM and some on this site will say that and nod their widdle heads up and down with all seriousness.

  44. 44
    ruemara says:

    @Unenthusiastic Obama voter: You do realize that whether you like it or not, social issues are what carried the day for Republicans and it’s not the fault of ABL that social progress can and often does come with a political cost. No, I suppose you don’t.

    I’ve already been called a prude by Weinerbots for pointing out the tremendous stupidity of what he did, the fact that his wife said he needed to resign and the fact that Welprin was a shitty candidate from the Martha Coakley school of campaigning. All by people who last entered this district when they saw that movie, you know, set in NYC. Progressives are stupid. Including me, I should know better than to talk to people who are true believers with not even a toehold on reality.

  45. 45
    Elie says:

    @Cacti:

    Its a human phenomenon: tribalism. It has deep roots and can be used in various ways.

    NBD for this election.

    district is going away soon — will be diluted. Also

    Lets move on…

    If anyone’s noticed, the world is going to shit on a lot of different issues. None of this would have happened if
    Wiener’s brain was normal and he didn’t have to pull out his Johnson for the “girls”. Remember that, you Wiener apologists. He CHOSE to do that. Stoopid.

  46. 46
    kindness says:

    Why the hell is my comment still in moderation 10 minutes later?

  47. 47
    PeakVT says:

    @kindness: Why the hell do you think somebody has nothing better to than to hang out waiting to de-moderate comments?

  48. 48

    […] at Balloon Juice provides the best analysis that I can find: Following up on yesterday’s post, where my main claim was that special elections are tough on […]

  49. 49
    kindness says:

    it’s a fish or cut bait thing to us in the peanut gallery.

  50. 50
    Brachiator says:

    Following up on yesterday’s post, where my main claim was that special elections are tough on the incumbent party.

    Interesting point. The conventional wisdom is that certain seats belong to a political party, not to the elected politician, and certainly not to the voters in the district.

    And as mistermix noted, the incumbent party then too often throws a safe hack or a next-in-line guy into the fray. And then, they are shocked when they get their butts kicked.

    @sherparick:

    You can ask culturallly conservative working class voters to transcend their tribal beliefs and prejudices if you can persuasively argue that you are going to improve their material condition. Once, Democrats had the nack for doing this. Not so much now.

    Amen to that. Although there have been many substantive achievements in many areas by the Obama Administration, the bleak economic picture offers an opportunity to the Republicans.

  51. 51
    kindness says:

    The MSM has already started to use these two elections with their horse race metaphor. Of course they will.

    Ya know when the real shit will hit the fan? When the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas goes before the UN, asks for statehood and the US uses their veto in the Security Council. Problems from it? Obama won’t get any domestic credit for supporting Israel. The other Middle Eastern governments will turn on Washington, I fear more severely than anyone is saying yet. Republicans will successfully use the whole debacle to split the Jewish voters against the Soshulist Kenyan Mooslim. And all hell breaks loose in the Middle East. Expect the Israeli government to do something really stupid to incite even more violence and retribution because let’s face it, Netanyahu is a complete dick, and would love nothing more than to stick the knife in Obama’s chest (he likes to see the look in their eyes when he kills) and helps to elect the next Republican fascist.

    I hope that isn’t how it goes, but I fear the worst.

    Obama couldn’t have been more wrong about playing the adult in the room. Obama should have been out kicking ass the entire time he’s been in office. He’s been bringing a flyswatter to a gun fight for too long & it’s going to bite him in the ass.

  52. 52
    Brachiator says:

    @kindness:

    Obama couldn’t have been more wrong about playing the adult in the room. Obama should have been out kicking ass the entire time he’s been in office. He’s been bringing a flyswatter to a gun fight for too long & it’s going to bite him in the ass.

    Oddly enough, this sounds a bit like yearning for the hardcase attitude of Dubya and Cheney. Whose ass should Obama been kicking, and how would he have done it?

  53. 53
    OzoneR says:

    @kindness:

    Obama should have been out kicking ass the entire time he’s been in office.

    whose ass? The voters of the 9th district of New York?

  54. 54
    OzoneR says:

    @Brachiator:

    Whose ass should Obama been kicking, and how would he have done it?

    Well he tried kicking Bibi Netanyahu’s, but look how well that turned out.

  55. 55
    kindness says:

    @OzoneR: You aren’t even a useful idiot. Dude, why are you playing stupid?

    Netanyahu will try to play a part in the 2012 elections. Screwing up Israel isn’t enough for that abomination. He want’s to take America down the fascist path with him. And the republicans are all too happy to oblige.

    To all, please accept my apologies on the double post. I had the earlier comment in ‘moderation’ so long I posted it again without the evil ‘soshulist’ word spelled correctly which is really how it got there to begin with.

  56. 56
    Brachiator says:

    @OzoneR:

    Well he tried kicking Bibi Netanyahu’s, but look how well that turned out.

    Actually, Obama earned a piece of his Nobel Peace Prize. All throughout the Arab Spring, the conventional wisdom of foreign policy experts, and Israeli hardliners, have been pushing the view that US national interest should be to side with authoritarians to make sure that the US and Israel maintain their supposed supremacy in the Middle East. And, as is par for the course, all those who claim that Obama is a Mooslem Sozyuhlist dictator, now claim that he is naive, and just doesn’t understand why the US is supposed to pal around with dictators.

    Neither Obama nor, to her credit, Secretary of State Clinton rejected this “advice.” This is no guarantee that the US will be loved by whatever governments rise up to replace those that are tottering in the Middle East. On the other hand, it is a clear departure from the worst of past US policy to cynically install rulers who we foolishly believe will toe the line and do our will.

    Obama has also done well in not giving ground to the childish and wrongheaded demands of Israeli hardliners.

    What is needed now is a US Spring to fight back the insipid, reductive, simplistic “with us or against us” nonsense that was the main principle of US foreign policy under Bush and his bonehead crew.

  57. 57
    OzoneR says:

    @Brachiator: All this is true, and just as Lyndon Johnson lost the South for a generation for standing up for Civil Rights, Obama probably lost the Jews for a generation

  58. 58
    Mino says:

    @OzoneR: Uh, no. Jewish people are a whole lot smarter than white Protestant Southern males.

  59. 59
    OzoneR says:

    @Mino:

    Uh, no. Jewish people are a whole lot smarter than white Protestant Southern males.

    apparently, not in Brooklyn

  60. 60
    Brachiator says:

    @OzoneR:

    All this is true, and just as Lyndon Johnson lost the South for a generation for standing up for Civil Rights, Obama probably lost the Jews for a generation

    I’m not too sure about this. But at least we know what the standard of measurement may be:

    However, in 1980 many Jewish voters abandoned Carter – first for Senator Edward Kennedy in the primaries and then for Governor Ronald Reagan and Congressman John Anderson in the fall. In November Carter bested Reagan in the Jewish community by only a narrow margin – 45%–39%. This was the worst showing among Jewish voters for a Democratic presidential candidate since James Cox in 1920.

    James Cox only got 19 percent of the Jewish vote. And Carter previously got 71 percent of the Jewish vote in the 1976 elections.

    But I think that while there are a hard core of jingoistic Americans who believe that the US can win any war, I think that American Jews and Israelis would rather avoid war if possible, and have a better sense of what is at stake. I’m not sure that a bellicose Romney or Perry promising a shoot ’em up will go over well in the long run.

  61. 61
    OzoneR says:

    @Brachiator: Carter’s loss of the Jewish vote comes from UN Ambassador Andrew Young’s comments about Israel being “stubborn and intransigent” and secretly met with the PLO. That did him in. And oh, btw, Young is black. I can see Zionist looking at Obama and thinking “Andrew Young”

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] at Balloon Juice provides the best analysis that I can find: Following up on yesterday’s post, where my main claim was that special elections are tough on […]

Comments are closed.