Rory the Roman (be still, my barely beating heart) is dying too often for my comfort.
It scares me.
While we are on things Who, is anyone else hating Torchwood as much as I am?
by Sarah, Proud and Tall| 150 Comments
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arguingwithsignposts
You know, there are penalties for interrupting the 2-minute hate of college football with sci-fi TV stuff, right?
Corner Stone
Are you trying to tell me something?
Cat
Torchwood is remarkably consistent. The first 95% is great and then the last 5% is so awful you wish you’d never seen it. If there is another season I’m not watching the last EP and making up my own ending.
I hope its the TV series medium that forces them to spend 15 minutes wrapping the whole season, but it ruins a great product IMHO.
MariedeGournay
Torchwood is making me cry. I mean, it’s such an interesting premise, but the plot and tone are all over the place. After the glory of Children of Earth I’m just stunned. I think RTD should take a break from sci-fi for a while. He seems to be really wanting to do a romantic comedy.
And Rory is awesome. So nice to have someone on the TARDIS who’s a little more doubtful about things. His line “That’s just stupid” about the wooden pan just makes me so happy.
Roger Moore
OK, so we’re going to have to nickname Rory “Kenny” because he’s making like Kenny from South Park. Deal.
Joshua Norton
Um, wibbly … wobbly …. timey … wimey …
Rory is cool.
Children of Earth pretty much killed “Torchwood” for me. In fact, it’s not been the same since series 2 ended. Torchwood was dark but fun. The full cast of Jack, Gwen, Ianto, Tosh & Owen ARE Torchwood. That show cast ended with series 2. What has followed is a pale imitation of what once was a great series.
In my opinion Torchwood cannot be saved while Russell Davies is at the helm. He is too determined to focus on showing how “edgy” he is and how he can write shock value scenes. His contempt for his characters is matched by his contempt for the audience. Anyone who dares to suggest that his writing is anything less than brilliant is an idiot who just doesn’t understand his “genius”.
Emma
I haven’t watched Torchwood since the end of the second season. Yes, I know, I don’t understand the work of genius, yadda, yadda. CoE was crap both from the fiction and the science-fiction points of view, with a plot you could drive a truck through, even by Torchwood standards, and that’s saying something. (edit) I see Joshua got in before me.
And yes, every time Rory steps forward my heart stops.
arguingwithsignposts
@Roger Moore: they killed kenny! those bastards!
Anna Granfors
Actually, it’s the opposite for me. Moffat’s Who hasn’t really done it for me…don’t get me wrong, the cast is great and Rory IS geekbeautiful, but Moffat’s overall showrunning is no match for Russell T Davies’. I just don’t have as much emotional investment in it. (Also surprising because Moffat’s Who episodes for RTD were some of my favorites.)
But although it has its flaws, I’d give Torchwood s4 a solid 8 of 10. It probably would have been better if they’d trimmed it back some and if they’d done five 90 minute shows over a solid week as opposed to the 10 eps over 10 weeks. I wanna grow up to be Gwen…when she said “I’m Welsh” right before she decked the fake CIA agent, I squeed long and loud. And the RTD-copyrighted “what? Wot? WHAT?” in the last episode had me clapping.
I think I’m in a distinct minority, though. I’ve seen lots of bad reviews of Torchwood, and people seem fond enough of Moffat’s Who.
rikyrah
I guess I’m a rebel because I am enjoying this STARZ Torchwood.
and this is from someone who was so disgusted by Children of Earth.
just finished it this weekend over at my Niece’s House on ON DEMAND.
Anna Granfors
Oh, and to amend a little, “The Doctor’s Wife” was one of the best episodes of Doctor Who EVAR. Though I’m gonna give Neil Gaiman (who wrote it) almost full props for that, although Suranne Jones as Idris was *amazing*.
Leeds man
His contempt for his characters is matched by his contempt for the audience.
That’s modern “smart” telly in a nutshell.
lamh32
@rikyrah: @Anna Granfors:
Yeah, I enjoyed this season too. So I guess we three are in the minority.
I read that the show may come back but only if RTD has time to do it. He has a lot on his plate overseas and I think some other things developing over here.
Personally, I think this season was all a way to age Captain Jack a bit. Captain Jack is not supposed to age, bu the actore who plays him, the lovely John Barrowman, is obviously aging, what better way to age a character who is immortal than to make him temporarily mortal and age him to a least a manageable age for the actor to continue to play him.
Jay in Oregon
Is this where I share my theory that the “good man” that River goes to prison for killing isn’t the Doctor?
Joshua Norton
Moffat’s Who hasn’t really done it for me…
I can sort of agree with that. One of my absolute favorite DW episodes was “Blink”. But when Moffat revived the stone angels, it was kind of flat. There were none of the goose bumps that the originals gave me. Plus he’s relying on way too many 2 episode arcs. Especially since 50% of it seems to just be filler to stretch time.
kdaug
New Who incoming @ 15min local. Back in 1:15.
Litlebritdifrnt
Today I just got to see the first two eps of Who (cause I had no power thanks to Irene for the first ep, and was asleep for the next). I loved Lets Kill Hitler, thanks to the River Song theme, I mean wow, this is the first time that River meets the Doctor and she is determined to kill him. Wow. The next ep was interesting in that it was a stand alone, and they are always interesting because they take us out of the loop, a strange little story that has nothing to do with the larger arc. I have to say that the fact that Rory and Amy were in a Doll House was obvious from the wooden frying pan clue (okay well my thought was a doll house or a theatre set), so that was a little over played. Still, I enjoyed both episodes and I am thoroughly enjoying Torchwood. To be honest with you it beats the pants off anything on US TV right now. Hands down.
Joshua Norton
@Jay in Oregon: Well, we’ve (technically) seen when the Dr. dies. So River really doesn’t play into that scenario (yet).
joeyess
Praise be to the FSM. If I had to look at that goddamn Michigan logo for one more minute………..
I hate, hate, hate college football. It’s so goddamn corrupt that it deserves to be skewered.
Here’s a taste:
I so enjoyed this article.
gnomedad
Y’all may be interested in the Facebook page Rory Williams is the New Chuck Norris.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Anna Granfors:
Ditto, the actual Tardis becoming a living breathing woman was a thing to behold. I shall never forget her screaming “where is my thief!”I have to admit that I have watched that Ep more than I have watched any other, when she says “alive” and then “hello” and “this was the time that we talked”. It was absolutely brilliant and as far as I am concerned a triumph.
Roger Moore
@Anna Granfors:
I think there’s a big difference in the extent to which they’re trying to push the season story arc. Davies was willing to let the individual episodes be mostly individual episodes, with hints thrown in that something more was going on. Moffat seems to be running really hard with the idea of the whole season following a single big plot arc, even more so in Season 6 than Season 5. Moffat is also clumsier about inserting the key hints that are supposed to be tying the episodes together.
I don’t think either approach is necessarily right or wrong, but the big plot arc approach is certainly riskier. It all depends on having a good concept with a big bang finish to tie it up. When the big finish works well- and I think “The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang” was a great finish for S5- it pays off big. If the big finish is a dud, it winds up spoiling the whole season retroactively because you know the big buildup was all for naught.
Jeff
@Anna Granfors @Rikyrah @lamh32
My wife and I have always *really* enjoyed Doctor Who and been indifferent at best about Torchwood. But, now things are all backwards… we’ve by and large enjoyed Miracle Day, and disliked the Matt Smith/Moffat episodes (with the exception of “The Doctor’s Wife” and the Christmas Carol special) to the point that we basically quit the series after “A Good Man Goes to War”. (I confess, we did watch “Let’s kill Hitler” but we kind of wished we hadn’t after the big reveal…)
As far as season five, which is what SPT is watching goes, I have to say that it would’ve been much better if Moffat hadn’t felt like he had to somehow top the end of season four (and if he’d found a personality for smith to use), but as many complaints as I have about it, it beats the heck out of season six.
Moffat is great at single episodes (like earlier posters, his episodes under RTD are some of my favorites) but he’s rubbish at setting up and executing major plot arcs.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Joshua Norton: I think it is fascinating that we are now seeing the reverse of the stories that we have seen so far. In the past episodes we have River knowing everything in the future and the doctor being in the dark. “Spoilers” now we have River being in the dark and the doctor knowing what is going to be going on. “what do you mean spoilers” It is fascinating.
middlewest
Tried to watch the first three episodes of Torchwood, and I can’t finish a single one. Is there some point where it stops being completely awful?
Wannabe Speechwriter
The problem with Torchwood has always been for me having a guy 3 millennia from the future who can’t die. You can only go so far when you have that premise…
Roger Moore
@Jay in Oregon:
That is an interesting theory. The Doctor has already said more or less outright that he isn’t a good man (“Good men don’t need rules. Now is not the time to find out why I have so many.”) but that Amy and Rory aren’t. It would also leave open a lot more mystery about the impossible astronaut, which they could use to stretch the story line into S7.
Kristine
@Jay in Oregon: No. Oh no, please. Not just because of Rory, but because it would mean she murdered a…very special person. I don’t want to post a spoiler, although most folks here probably know what’s going on. But I hope it’s not Rory.
Carolinus
You’d think these idiots could have at least set aside feeding their “Democrats in disarray” crap to the media while the President goes about his jobs plan push?
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/us/politics/11obama.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
—
—
—
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What possible value is there in this sort of whinging?
karen marie
There’s a woman who’s got knitting patterns for the Doctor’s scarves from every season!
Haven’t watched Torchwood but perhaps I should reconsider. I was devastated when Tom Baker stopped being the doctor and never watched again. Maybe I should reconsider that as well.
arguingwithsignposts
Gawd, but this has descended into a Harry Potter board atm. Laterz.
Yutsano
@Carolinus: Oh fuck them. Give them what they want. Give them a Perry Presidency. Because it’s better than sucking up and supporting one of their own amirite?
Carolinus
@Carolinus Bleh, ran out of time to fix the blockquoting on that last paragraph. Ah well :).
Roger Moore
@karen marie:
OK, that is some serious, otaku grade obsession. I mean scarves are cool- even cooler than bowties- but that’s way over the top.
Joseph Nobles
@Jay in Oregon: I’m right with you. I went there last week.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
You’d think being from Michigan and having been in Congress for four hundred years, Dingell of all people would be able to talk about what Obama has accomplished and how hard it is to accomplish anything in our system. As for “long time party loyalists”, have they been loyal through DOMA, NAFTA, the failure of the health care reform, the rise and fall of Gingrich, ‘Ah think Ah raised your taxes too much, too”, the drama of Lewinsky etc, Kerry’s (and others’) support for Bush’s war, refusing to filibuster “unitary executive Alito’, now all the sudden they’re not sure if the ‘can’ vote for Obama? lazy, petulant dumbass motherfuckers.
Dee Loralei
@Litlebritdifrnt: Also my fav epi this season. Am still cackling over her saying ” I like biting, it’s like kissing, but with a winner!”
JGabriel
@Litlebritdifrnt:
Is it, though? I thought that was River in the astronaut suit that shot the Doctor in The Impossible Astronaut. Let’s Kill Hitler seemed to confirm that theory.
Admittedly, it’s a bit hard to reconcile with River’s apparent lack of memory of it.
.
Carolinus
@Yutsano There’s that and then there’s also something extremely off-putting about congressional dems laying responsibility for everything at the President’s feet (the state of the economy, the messaging, legislative accomplishments, etc). It’s almost like they’re not members of a co-equal branch of government (with lower much lower approval than the Pres) & not leaders of the same party as the pres, who you’d imagine would also be sharing some of that burden. Instead it’s all, “Daddy why haven’t you won my election for me yet?”
Leeds man
@karen marie:
I was devastated when Tom Baker stopped being the doctor and never watched again. Maybe I should reconsider that as well.
For the love of God, don’t reconsider. Après Baker, le déluge.
Dennis SGMM
What’s Torchwood?
Paddy
Posting before reading comments since I’ve just ballsed up enough to ::cough:: download illegal content ::cough:: to see TW4. “Children of the Earth” was just so damn fantastic, I seriously doubt that this will stand up to it considering the bits and pieces I’ve gleaned over the intertubes.
Dr Who? Rory rocks, I’m eh about Amy and totally confused on the “River Song I am your mother, and you are his wife, but who is your father” bullshit. Darth did it better
JGabriel
@Dennis SGMM:
Medieval punishment for rapists.
.
Lolis
I have enjoyed Torchwood. But this is the first season I have watched.
Keith G
@Yutsano:
Maybe yes, maybe no.
Within the context of the whole article, the selected quotes seem to be from people laying out a marker. These are party professionals telling team Obama to get on the offensive and stay on the offensive.
To me the key passage was:
Yutsano
@Carolinus:
Because under Dubya they really weren’t. They were more or less expected to be his rubber stamp while he did whatever fuck all he wanted. And during that time the Dems were in opposition and never really got out of that mode even after 2006. If they can make Obama their scapegoat for their lack of action why shouldn’t they? As I recall Clinton was treated in a very similar fashion.
Kristine
@Joseph Nobles: My problem with that is that she would be killing a ‘weaker,’ less knowledgeable individual. Unless Rory’s character had devolved significantly, River would lose all sympathy and likability, and I’d hate to see it end that way as she’s become one of my favorite characters ever.
Then there’s the whole patricide thing.
JGabriel
@Paddy:
Rory is River’s biological father. The TARDIS messed with River’s development and gave her Time Lord powers, that’s why the TARDIS called her a “Child of the TARDIS”.
Capice?
.
Dee Loralei
OMG I totally went SQUEE!!!! When I realized ABL was following me!
Ahem: I loved S1&2 of Torchwood on BBC. I hated it in Children of the Earth when they killed everyone off. I loved that entire team. I’ve only watched like 4 of the US Torchwood, and find them kinda odd and boring and a wee bit twee or something. Whoever upthread said RTD doesn’t really like or respect his characters or his audience. I’ll finish watching the season because it is still better than any other sci-fi on TV in the US. Well, other than Warehouse 13 and Eureka, which got cancelled, dammit!
There’s two or three new series starting soonish that I’ll give a view too. Terra Nova, Grimm and Once Upon a Time. Hopefully those will let me get my geek freak on with Big Bang, Chuck and Dr Who. Oh and Fringe also, LOL.
@Carolinus: Those comments and articles have been pissing me the hell off, especially the Congressional and Senatorial types who are running against him in 2012. Seems to me most of the folks in the Dem party who ran away from the President and from their own accomplishments in 2008-2010 where the ones who were replaced in 2010. Stupid fucks!
karen marie
That makes me laugh.
Thoughtful Black Co-Citizen
@JGabriel: You can clean my monitor.
Jenny
Just read a Firebag blog (not FDL) and they’re angry Obama gave such a good speech, saying messaging is a waste of time.
Oy Vey. If you don’t use the bully pulpit they get mad. If you use, they still get mad.
Of course, they couldn’t just stick to nuts and bolts, they had to get personal. They engaged in a Palin-style attack, saying yes he has enormous charisma, but so do Hollywood stars.
And if this wasn’t funny enough, an earlier post on the blog asked its readers to contribute to Alan Grayson because he’s so good at…. wait for it… giving speeches.
Good times.
Paddy
@Jay in Oregon: Ooooooowwww. Shit.
Corner Stone
@Jenbot: Why? Why would you subject yourself to such an abominable mish mash?
And why the anon reference? Link it up.
Jay in Oregon
@JGabriel:
Let’s Kill Hitler dashed my theory as to what River’s character arc was going to be.
My original theory was that the Doctor has to be killed by River in order to break (or fulfill) her programming; she kills the Doctor, then regenerated into the River we know and was going to spend the rest of her life trying to atone for it.
The Girl who Waited gave us a glimpse into the Doctor’s mindset, when he told Amy that “sometimes knowing your own future is what enables you to change it, especially if you’re bloody minded, contradictory, and completely unpredictable.”
soonergrunt
I’m sure this has already been reported here, but one of my favorite actors, who so resembled my late grandfather, Cliff Robertson has died. He was 88.
Keith G
@Jenny: Just remember, any idiot can start or post on a blog.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: Funny that.
Paddy
@JGabriel: Much grassy for the straightening, both Jeff and I thank you.
arguingwithsignposts
@Keith G:
Or run for Congress, c.f., too many to mention.
Cat Lady
@Jenny:
Fixed for pathetic, stupid and ridiculous accuracy.
soonergrunt
@Carolinus:
precisely what is happening here.
Jay in Oregon
@JGabriel:
I think it’s more than just being conceived in the TARDIS; if it was exposure to the Vortex that did it, then I’d think they’d have Time Agents and other habitual time travelers giving birth to would-be Time Lords.
Rory is over 2,000 years old (in some fashion), and Amy was exposed to a rift in the universe for most of her life. Then there’s the whole “rebooting the universe” thing they were present for. I don’t know how the bad guys figured out that Amy’s child could be something like a Time Lord, but I think it’s unlikely there will be many more people like River.
lamh32
@Dee Loralei: can’t wait for Fringe. I just have NO idea how the hell they are gonna get past “who is Peter Bishop” cliff hanger from last year.
Also, I’m at a lost whether or not I want them to answer the cliff hanger within the first episode, or make it last longer?
plus, I’ve really loved the love stor between Peter and Olivia, if Peter was “forgotten”, then when he returns, will there still be a Peter and Olivia?
Also, now that the 2 worlds have merged, does that mean that Peter and Alt-livia did not have a baby?
Ugh…hurry back Fringe, I’m so confused…lol.
Keith G
@arguingwithsignposts: The beauty of the demos.
Joseph Nobles
@Kristine: Not if she doesn’t know who Rory is when she kills him. Not if she sets a trap for the Doctor that Rory steps into, willingly. Either of those could start this homicidal maniac River down the path to the brilliantly mad woman we know and love.
Dee Loralei
@karen marie: You really should watch DrWho again, though my favorite was the sexy edible David Tenant, I kinda like this Matt Smith guy, he’s a bigger geeky nerd than the Dr has been in it’s modern iteration.
Looks like Longhorns are about to give BYU grief.
MariedeGournay
@Litlebritdifrnt: Yeah, Neil Gaimen really just got how that relationship would work and the actors just sold it. Weirdly enough, I came to Doctor Who watching the William Hartnell episodes on PBS. I noticed over time how the TARDIS moved from just being a ship to a loved one, and all by just how he treated and argued with her. And it was just small things: caressing the counsel, talking to her during stressful moments, the odd loving look. Wasn’t a conscious decision by those decades worth of writers, directors, and actors, but it just seemed that way to me.
Dee Loralei
@lamh32: I never saw it because we were having tornados the night of the season finale, so my DVR didn’t even get anything but the local weatherman. Last two shows of the season. And the night the station replayed the finale, we either had thunderstorms and flash floods, or the Ms River was flooding or something, so bout 5 minutes into that and all that was on was local weather!
What do you know about Grimm, Once Upon a Time and Terra Nova?
And Texass beats BYU
Paddy
@lamh32: Couple of good links for Fringe hints here and here. It’s going to be a mind bending season.
Suffern ACE
@soonergrunt: O.K. But I do have to give the members of the House a little credit for passing a lot of bills that went nowhere because the Senate is made up of very old people who can’t deliberate on more than one major priority at a time. Part of it is rules, and whatnot, but the Senators like to drag things out even in good times.
It is Obama’s party, though. He is the head of it. Comes with the job. I like him and will vote for him again, but I am not convinced that he has done a very good job as that head. Wants to be the bi-partisan president, but then he needed someone to take charge of the party. I get the feeling that Tom Kaine was not the right choice to be chairman at the time. The fact that these Congressional Dems have decided to go running to the press makes me wonder what exactly goes on at the meetings when the poobahs get together. Shouldn’t they be taking those issues to Debbie?
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I’m enjoying the Moffat stories because they are darker than they were under Davies. I actually like the fact that the Doctor’s actions have consequences this time around, but that he’s also been given harder choices to make. And, if you go look, Davies version of Doctor Who really only consisted of the Daleks and the Cybermen. Russel gave us the girl in the fireplace, the family of blood, and Captain Jack. The tenth Doctor was like the Pierce Brosnan James Bond.
Peter
I enjoyed three seasons of Doctor Who. I fell out of it midway through season four, and never got back into it (except I poked my head in to watch Journey’s End, which was the worst hour of television I’ve ever seen).
Torchwood, on the other hand? Has always been awful. Right from the start. It is all of RTD’s worst traits as a writer allowed to run rampant.
Kristine
@Joseph Nobles: It would have to be carefully done, and I’m not sure I trust Moffet to manage it given what I’ve seen so far. I had problems with River’s 180 degree change from Zippy McPsychopath to Donate-All-My-Lives in LKH. For me, it happened too quickly, with insufficient foundation. I know folks upstream complained about Moffet’s penchant for 2-parters, but I think River’s intro could have used one. But that’s just me.
I’ll sit back and watch and wait and see. It’ll either be ‘wow, didn’t see that coming,’ or character destruction to rival Harris’ butchery of Clarice Starling in HANNIBAL. Yes, I like River that much. I love the companions that know as much as the Doctor and set him back on his heels. At times, I still wish they would bring back Romana.
lamh32
@Dee Loralei: oh shit. I gave it away then? Sorry Dee.
But still plz it you can watch the last episode, it honestly had me on the edge of my seat and the ending IMHO was one of the best season ending cliff hanger of any sci-fi series I’ve seen and that includes my ultimate fav sci-fi series…X-files.
Fringe has become for me in my 30s, what X-files was in my teens and twenties. I’m obsessed…lol
@Paddy:
thanks for the links. I seriously can’t wait for this season to begin. Fringe and Criminal Minds are the 2 returning fall dramas that I’m looking forward to the most (NCIS a close 3rd, I don’t know why, but I love me some Mark Harmon…lol)
ETA: anyone who loves “Luther” on BBC America, I believe that the 2nd series premiere comes on next Wednesday I think (though I may be wrong about that, but it is this month). If for nothing else…I’m gonna love having Idris Elba on my screen every Wednesday night!!!
Dennis SGMM
@JGabriel:
LOL I stopped watching anything other than TCM, with occasional forays to the History Channel a few years ago. I read these TV threads in the hope that ya’ll will let me know of the next “Firefly,” or the next “Briscoe County, Jr.”
No one of importance
@Joshua Norton:
“Rory is cool.”
Quoted for truth. He makes being a shy, awkward dork, totally adorable. Best husband evah.
JGabriel
@Dee Loralei:
With the bow-tie, typewriter console, fez, various glasses or goggles, there’s something a little more self-consciously steampunk about the Moffat/Smith iteration of the Doctor.
.
Dee Loralei
@lamh32: And LOL don’t worry about giving it away, I keep meaning to go view it on Hulu before the season starts. And the show has me scratching my head so much that what hints I get still don’t help.
Luther was really good so I have season 2 set to be recorded on the DVR.
And Idris Elba needs to be in some film noir, or something shot only in black and white on real film stock. The lines and planes of his face are just amazing. And he’s a fine actor.
JGabriel
@Dennis SGMM:
Honestly, I think the fifth and sixth seasons of the new Who may fit that bill. There’s a lot more character & thematic development, of the kind one normally associates with Joss Whedon’s shows, in Moffat’s version of Who than in RTD’s run, IMO.
.
JGabriel
@Jay in Oregon:
You might be right. I’m just reporting what was stated in A Good Man Goes To War and Let’s Kill Hitler. There’s still another three episodes to go in this season, so there’s plenty of room for Moffat to further develop that plot thread if he chooses.
Right now, I’m not trying to figure out how Moffat will tie it all together. My guess is that it will be something that seems very “WTF?” at first, then seems inevitable once you think it through.
That said, there are several moments that Moffat has to address at some point:
1) He has to get us to Silence in the Library / Forest of the Dead, River’s big “death” scene in Season 4 with David Tennant.
2) Recovering River from the Library — remember, it was a major point at the end of Forest of the Dead that River wasn’t “dead” yet. So, presumably, Moffat has a rescue episode mapped out.
3) An episode where River agrees to go to jail would also seem to be in the offing at some point, since we know she eventually ends up there.
4) A regeneration episode? Don’t know if I believe the story that River used up all her regenerations, since a regenerated younger River as a companion, maybe one without all of her memories, offers up a lot of interesting thematic possibilities.
.
MTiffany
@Anna Granfors: “Borrowing implies the eventual intention to return the thing that was taken. What makes you think I would ever give you back?”
Brilliant. And a little disturbing.
Paddy
@lamh32: For me it’s “Fringe” and “The Good Wife”. Great acting in both, and I’m SERIOUSLY PO’d that “Men of a Certain Age” got canceled. I’ve hated Ray Romano for years (Honestly, you’re a long term husband and you’re still a juvenile dick?} but that was one of the most realistic shows I’ve seen in ages.
Dee Loralei
@JGabriel: Steampunk is perfect. you’re right.
And the most yummy David Tennant was definitely a more suave iteration of the Dr, And the guy before him was kinda a punk rocker iteration. Or maybe the Aussie Rules Footballer type.
The Dr’s Wife was my favorite epi. but I loved the Nixon one and the WWII one also. Mark Shepard is one of my favorite tv actors and he was in Nixon.
My 2nd fav ep I think was the Van Gogh one, that was so heart felt and bittersweet. And I think the Weeping Angels are the scariest of all the baddies the Dr has ever beaten.
I loved Elizabeth Sladen as a companion and even watched her spin off series (The Sarah Jane Adventures). I like Amy and Rory and River lots. But I also like Rose Tyler and Martha Jones bunches too.
I think the show has actually gotten a bit more dark and scary since Moffat took over. And I loved his show Coupling.
Southern Beale
I’m totally loving Torchwood, actually. That and the one with Noah Wylie, what’s it called, “Dark Skies” or something like that? Too lazy to look it up. I love me some good sci-fi.
On another note, I wrote a crabby 9/11 post. Maybe I was inspired by hearing Cyndi Lauper mangle the National Anthem at the U.S. Open. I’m just so fucking over it all.
Three-nineteen
@JGabriel: That is making two assumptions: 1) that it was River in the spacesuit, and 2) the River in the spacesuit is the little girl Melody from Florida.
If it was little Florida Melody in the spacesuit who kills The Doctor, then why does she feel the need to kill him again in 1938? Once she killed him in 1938, the ep said she fulfilled her mission, and that’s how she was able to save him (he was already dead when she gave him her regeneration power).
My theory is that it is River in the spacesuit, but it happens when she is River (not one of the Melodys) and it happens after 1938 in her personal timeline. If she kills Rory there really isn’t a reason for the galactic police to care – not all murderers go to the max security prison she’s in, that looks like it’s for especially heinous criminals. Killing Rory IMHO wouldn’t trigger that sequence of events (unless he saves the universe by himself before this series is over). Killing The Doctor would, as the time-traveling robot with the miniaturized cops confirmed last week. And The Doctor has to die at Lake Silencio in April 2011, so who would he trust to kill him without letting her in on whatever harebrained scheme he has of surviving his death? River.
Plus if River does kill Rory I don’t think I could ever forgive Steven Moffat, which would make it hard to watch the next series of Sherlock.
Kristine
@MTiffany: I’d give much for a script of that episode, because as much as I loved Suranne Jones, there were times when I couldn’t understand what the hell she had said.
Dee Loralei
If Michigan defense can hold, they might even let their offense win this game. And do they have terrible towels? Something yellow a bunch of fans waving, could be a pompon, I suppose.
Texass beat BYU, does this have forewarning for the Mittster about Gov Perry Yes, Perry went to A&M and they hate the Longhorns, and Mitt didn’t go to BYU, but still, could it be more clear? I asked ABL on twitter, but she hasn’t responded.
And our esteemed blog host has been suprisingly untwitterish tonight.
WVU won, so he shouldn’t be underground hiding.
Oh, and I saw a close-up. Not terrible towels, they are pompons.
JGabriel
By the way, those black, thick plastic-rimmed, glasses that Rory and Amy said looked stupid? I thought they looked great on all three of them. I want a pair.
.
rikyrah
does anyone watch Warehouse 13?
Dee Loralei
@Southern Beale: Falling Skies, I loved that! I am so glad it’s coming back. For a brief shiny time this summer, Sunday was the best night of original tv. Leverage, Falling Skies and The Glades.
Dennis SGMM
@JGabriel:
Thanks! I’ll give them a whirl via DVD.
Dee Loralei
@rikyrah: I do, but I’m several behind. Have watched it since the beginning though. And I loved Eureka!
Damn, Irish interception.
Southern Beale
@Dee Loralei:
Yeah thanks Falling Skies! I was close. Don’t forget True Blood, another must-see on Sunday nights.
Elizabelle
Good evening, Sarah.
This girl is waiting for an open thread.
Regret to say I’ve seen neither Dr. Who nor Torchwood, being a non-cable Luddite. But may catch them on DVD some day. (Over the next decade. Whenever.)
Does anyone watch “Doc Martin” on PBS? I like it a lot.
PPS: Met one of the writers of “Falling Skies” when he bought a friend’s house. Nice guy. Which is not to say I’ve ever seen his show either. (sigh)
contessakitty (AKA Karen)
SPOILERS IF YOU DIDN’T SEE TORCHWOOD YET BUT INTEND TO…
Did anyone else think when they showed the ovens burning the Category Ones alive and then at the end last night when the members of the Three Families spoke of their plan and the reason for what they did that RTD meant it to be an allegory for the Tea Party? After all, the Tea Party believes that they have to destroy the country to save it so RTD either based it on the Kochian Tea Party or at least his caricature of them?
Also, in the finale, did anyone else feel like that capped off 10 hours you’ll never get back? I still don’t get how the vagina of the earth caused immortality.
Sarah Proud and Tall
@Kristine:
There’s a pretty reliable transcript of Doctor’s Wife here.
Paddy
@rikyrah: “Warehouse 13” is my fallback show, I catch up when I can. I did really want to see what happened after the last ep, quite a show stopper. I tried watching “Haven” the first season, got disinterested, but just picked back up in second season and it’s fleshing out nicely. Same with “Falling Skies”- I got disinterested early, stuck with it and ended up liking what I saw, esp Pope.
Yutsano
@Southern Beale: I was grumbling about you the other day. Specifically, I was wondering if you and a certain Marine had gotten acquainted yet. He’s job scouring and would appreciate the contact.
Paddy
@Dee Loralei: Oooh, new linky for Fringe stuff.
Kristine
@Sarah Proud and Tall: Oh, thank you–things are even now being clarified. When Jones said “I’ll just see if there’s an off switch,” I heard “I’ll just see if there’s an ostrich.” Which made a weird sort of sense given the tone of the ep, but still.
Excuse me while I kiss this guy….
contessakitty (AKA Karen)
@JGabriel:
I want the Torchwood contact lenses that record and that can get messages.
Suffern ACE
@Kristine: Goodness. I hope you aren’t in charge of nuclear reactors!
Dee Loralei
@Paddy: Oh thank you, I have much catching up to do.
Michigan pulled out a pretty damned amazing win over Notre Dame just seconds ago.
Paddy
@Dee Loralei: LOL, thanks so much!! I was about to go looking for the results. I live in South Bend, but have the heart of my birthplace, Michigan. Plus AA is a rockin’ city. Foo N.D.
Bruuuuce
Count me in with those who mostly enjoyed Torchwood s04, and who want to fire Stephen Moffatt as showrunner retroactively to his very first ep of s05.
Granted, Torchwood sagged some in the middle eps, and granted, we never did find out exactly HOW the Maguffin toggled the immortality/mortality of people on Earth (I was waiting to see a lost TARDIS, which would have had access to the Heart of Time that made Jack immortal in the first place). Still, the first couple and last couple of eps had the kind of writing and character work that I enjoyed in prior seasons. And we now have plot hooks that let the writers either bring back John Barrowman, or not, as head of Torchwood, which may or may not now have a major ally in the CIA (or which might just be headed by Mekhi Pfifer).
Certainly, I would be unsurprised if Bill Pullman got an Emmy nom for his work in this series.
On the other hand, when is Moffatt going to stop going for cheap melodrama (using the same plot devices over and over)? Why didn’t Rory have good advice for Amy, since he can remember not 36, but 2,000 years of solitary waiting? And what of Lazarus?
I really want this season to be done, so we have a wrap on the River Song arc, and maybe have a chance to get back to some classic Doctor-saves-the-universe-among-the-stars eps. Or at least, something less cheesy and more real (srsly, Moff: this is supposed to be a tearjerker?) than we’ve seen this season, aside from The Doctor’s Wife (which rates among the best eps ever; I wonder why [/sarcasm]).
Kristine
@Suffern ACE: What does that mean? I know others who had trouble understanding Jones at times.
Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN)
@Dee Loralei: My parents were at the game, and they want to know why both teams pulled their goalie with 2 minutes left.
Dennis SGMM
Waitaminnit, Rory the Roman?
Bory the bowman, Cory the coman, Dory the doman, Eory the eoman, Fory the foeman…
Re-re-re-etc-reading Joyce’s Ulysses sorry.
sfinny
Love, love, love Rory. Also enjoying this season of DW. Hard to believe that the series has been around longer than I’ve been alive. I remember watching episodes in the late seventies on a black and white TV with rabbit ears in my kitchen, when I really should have been asleep. I didn’t realize that it continued until I saw it again with Chris Eccleston a few years ago.
Jay in Oregon
@contessakitty (AKA Karen):
Supposedly, it was their experimentation with Jack’s blood and “The Blessing” that caused the state of things to flip; instead of Jack being immortal and the rest of humanity not, they became immortal (though not without the regeneration that Jack has demonstrated) and Jack became mortal again.
The biggest problem I have with the Macguffin is that the Families were going to wait until after Jack had been killed to bury The Blessing; why? Why not bury it as soon as the Miracle occurred so that what exactly did happen couldn’t?
I was still a little confused as to what the endgame of the Three Families was until I thought about the series as a whole.
(WARNING, MAJOR SPOILERS FOR TORCHWOOD AHEAD)
The first thing they did was push through the Categories of Life; the key element being that someone could go from Category 3 (uninjured) to Category 2 (injured but capable of recovery) to Category 1 (brain dead or otherwise permanently incapacitated) but there didn’t seem to be any way for a Category One to be promoted back.
Then, they allowed the chaos of the Miracle and the piling up of Category Ones to force acceptance of the camps and the ovens. (Shock Doctrine, anyone?) Yes, it’s regrettable, but Category Ones are going to be a drain on the ever-dwindling resources and more Category Ones are coming all of the time…
The next key was when Oswald Danes was referred to as a “Category Zero”; someone who is basically sentenced to “death” in the camps. They never expanded on that, but I suspect some emergency powers were being pushed through to declare people convicted of capital crimes as Category Zeroes; who wants rapists and murderers hanging around forever? Next would come the people who are carriers of previously-fatal or otherwise incurable diseases as a threat to public safety.
So now the Three Families have two ways to control the population; injury and illness will turn some people into Category Ones and for everyone else, there’s the threat of being made a Category Zero. Given enough time, they could trim the Earth’s population down to a number that the remaining resources could handle — a few million immortals, maybe? — and live happily ever after.
Dee Loralei
@Paddy: I’m a Sooner by birth,by inclination and genetics. Back in the 50’s my beloved Sooners had the longest winning streak going at 47 and then they played Notre Dame and lost. They proceeded to win every game after that for 4 years and then I think it was their opening game in the 5th year Notre Dame came to Norman and shut down that 49 game winning streak! My parents were freshmen sitting in the stands. Mom says no one moved or breathed for more than 30 minutes after the game was over. And it was raining! They just all sat there kinda stunned, kinda flabbergasted.
My grandfather and great uncles used to ride their horses and run across the plains 20 miles or so to either Norman or Chickasha, OK to the train station, where the local telegraph and telegram offices were, for away games. This was before radio, and the telegraph offices used to post scores and any game stuff they got off the wires during the games.
They actually posted a blackboard with a football field drawn on it, so they could diagram the game as it came over the wires. My great uncle said that it was an exciting way to “watch” the game. But that blackboard in Norman, made it a more fun place to hear the wires of the game, than just reading of the telegrams was when they went to Chickasha.
Obviously, I was at OU much later. But my Sooners won a National Championship in 85, my last year, until the Stoops era.
God I love college football! I’ve been watching for 12 hours and my team has a bye week, LOL.
sfinny
Question, where is Torchwood seen? Is it on a pay channel?
FlipYrWhig
@Keith G:
When I read this in an article, it makes me think that the reporter asked the following question: “Since Obama has failed both economically and in terms of tone, don’t you think a speech like this is long overdue?” And they answered, “Um, I guess you could say that.” Objection, leading the witness. (And note that whenever a story refers to what “voters” think, it means what the writer thinks.)
@Carolinus:
Democrats CONSTANTLY whine to the press about what other Democrats are doing. Any internal dispute, the losing side dials up a reporter friend and complains about how the other side may have won, but they’re totally wrong. The whole party has a bad case of l’esprit de l’escalier.
rikyrah
Paddy:
I was so stunned at the end of Warehouse 13.
JUST WENT WOW!
never ever saw that twist coming.
Dee Loralei
@sfinny: Starz
Bruuuuce
@sfinny: Torchwood was seen in the US on Starz, which is a pay channel. There certainly are other ways to see it, and not especially difficult to find, depending on the strictness of your beliefs in such matters.
rikyrah
This season of Torchwood is now seen on STARZ
I only have DirectTV, so I went over to my niece’s house – who has XFINITY ON DEMAND.
you can see previous seasons of Torchwood, when it was on BBCAmerica on Netflix.
sfinny
Thanks all. Don’t get Starz but may google around to see what’s available. Is is as good as DW?
JGabriel
Question: If the TARDIS is the Doctor’s Wife, and River Song is the Child of the TARDIS, and the Doctor marries the Child of his wife, the TARDIS, does that mean the Doctor is Woody Allen?
.
Jennifer
TARDIS? Does Sarah Palin know about this?
Kristine
@JGabriel: ::ponders a Woody Allen-type Doctor::
::imagines dialogues with Daleks, the Master, Davros, etc as parts of old Woody Allen stand-up routines::
It would be like the Doctor as Marvin the Robot. Douglas Adams really would be smiling.
JGabriel
Jennifer:
Of course not. Sarah Palin doesn’t have time for countries like the UK that don’t speak American.
Those people that say shedule instead of that good ol’ American skedule are just as illegally alien as those Mexicans!
Kristine:
Yeah, I guess it would be.
.
LesGS
@No one of importance: Well, I have to say that Wash from Firefly was a pretty damn great husband, too. In fact, I love Rory (as a married guy myself), for the same reasons I loved Wash. It is so amazing to have all-in geeky, beta-male devotion held up as high (or even higher) than whatever is going on with the alpha-male of the show.
Yutsano
@JGabriel: Considering Adams already went there, all I can say is indeed.
Comrade Kevin
I see some people have mentioned Fringe. I haven’t ever actually seen it, but the ads always came across to me as an X Files rip-off. I’m sure I’ll get beaten over the head for that.
Draylon Hogg
Moffat’s Who is fucking awful. Silurian lesbians making cheap cunnilingus gags, children regenerating because their parents shagged in in a TARDIS it makes Sylvester McCoy’s first season look good.
LesGS
@JGabriel: My eldest daughter (22 yo), months ago got glasses just like that. Now, she’s Marilyn Monroe gorgeous in face and figure, if I do say so as a genetic contributor to her physical manifestation. But those glasses just help all of you she really is shine forth.
JR
Moving Torchwood to Starz was a HUGE mistake. The constant exposition about shit covered in Series 1, the flamboyant Captain Harkness as opposed to the simple hypersexual rogue we’ve all come to know and love, the truly sub-par performance from Mekhi Phifer…and the plot hasn’t been working at. all.
Tonight was one of the best one-off Whos in recent years, and it’s a stark reminder of how bad Torchwood has become.
piratedan
ty SP&T for a SF geek thread…..
Torchwood is an acquired taste, I find some of the episodes from season 1 and 2 just so so but they would sneak in a winner now and again that just completely sways you, I think the secrets episode where Gwen throws herself into a local disappearance case and finds the kid as being lost in the rift and goes against Jack’s judgement to tell the mother one of the most compelling episodes of TV ever. I thought that they tried their best to flesh out characters and make them whole without it being forced.
I thought season three was a helluva premise but was forced into too few episodes and season 4 is a jumble. I have a difficult time relating to the US characters and it’s taken a bit longer than necessary to get to the meat of the series (at last), I’m saving the last three eps for when the spouse is out of the house and I can geek on them back to back on demand.
As for other SF on the TV, its sad that the syfy channel is such a parody of the genre and is run by such a set of tools that are slowly turning it into the USA gorefest channel. While Warehouse 13 has its moments of niftiness, they’ve shown no foresight whatsoever by canning Eureka, not making a play for shows like Firefly or Journeyman and letting Farscape pass. Haven shows some promise but I sure expect more from a network that is supposed to be for SF fans than MegaShark 3, yknow? There’s a whole backlog of nifty fiction ready to be tapped and they essentially aren’t interested, we get the same occult/monster movie crap when we could be getting treated to anything and everything from alternate history to space opera.
Anne Laurie
I will not see the current season of TORCHWOOD until it comes out on DVD (or Netflix streaming), but the first season finally lured me into breaking my longstanding disinclination to ever watch any of the various iterations of Dr. Who. The Spousal Unit & I devour entire TORCHWOOD seasons as soon as they’re available, but while we were quite satisfied to watch The New DR. WHO through the end of the Bad Wolf arc, we’ve yet to get around to renting the next season and picking it up again…
For me, the whole “regenerating Time Lord outside of history” concept always seemed two-dimensional, a coyote-trickster reset button that meant nothing within the series would ever have enough weight. Good as the two (?) seasons / actors of this new reboot were, I just can’t warm up to the Doctor at the center of the universe — they feel comic-booky to me, and not in a good way. Yes, I realize mine is very much the minority opinion, especially for someone who’s been an sf fan since approximatly 1960!
I love Torchwood for the reason so many people dislike it: in Torchwood, everything has consequences, and everyone is permanently marked by the choices they’ve made. Captain Jack, for all the good he’s done, can never erase or be absolved for the crimes he’s committed along the way (starting with his inadvertent original fratricide). He carries the Mark of Cain, but unlike the Doctor(s), he’s still “human” enough to know that he’s never stepping off the wheel of kharma… and neither is any other human, good or bad, well-meaning or thoroughly evil.
Mike M
Add me to the list of people who love Torchwood. Sure, it’s been uneven over its four seasons, but I’ve found many of the episodes deeply compelling and have loved many of the characters (although not so much the new ones in the US). I seldom watch an episode of any series on TV that I am still thinking about days later, but the dark, existential story lines of Torchwood have had that effect on me. Captain Jack may be immortal, but he pays for the blessing over and over in the series through the sacrifice and loss of those he loves.
middlewest
Huh, I wasn’t 100% sure I should give up on Torchwood, even though the first few episodes were utter crap, until I saw Ann Laurie defending it. Now I know it’s pure garbage to be avoided. Thanks!
Mino
@soonergrunt: Flowers for Algernon.
Sorry to hear that.
Jay C
Just to weigh in:
“New” Who:
S1: (Chris Eccleston): great.
S2-4: (David Tennant): sublime
S5-6 (Matt Smith): Teh Suck leading to Even More Suck.
“Torchwood”
S1-2: sublime
CoM, MD: back to Suck.
I blame Steven Moffat, myself: for all the blather he spouts onscreen about what a dedicated Whovian he is, Russell Davies, IMO, had a vastly better handle on the material.
Emma
@Jay C: Maybe. But it was Moffat who invented Captain Jack, and Davies who ran Torchwood into the ground.
Torchwood was attractive because it was essentially about five people with different levels and kind of emotional scars. The plots swung from immensely good to horrifically bad, but you were carried along by the characters. Gwen was a bit of a Mary-Sue, but that was ok.
CoE was basically an audition tape for the American market and was advertised as “great science-fiction.” As if. Characters wee mangled, plot was mangled (supposedly Lois was originally meant to be Martha, and since the actress wasn’t available they replaced her with a brand new character who acts exactly as if she knew Jack was the good guy all along even if it’s her first day in the job). And that’s one of the smallest problems.
I’m not watching the current one because I do not trust an author who mangles his characters. It’s ok to kill them, but don’t screw with them.
BJ Bjornson
Torchwood does need to be put out of our misery. Seasons 1 and 2 were uneven, but were relatively entertaining and allowed for the characters to develop and grow on you. Unlike some of the posters above, I thought Children of Earth was excellent, but it was “Event Television” with all that implies. It worked to the degree it did because we already knew the Torchwood team that had survived the first two series and were already invested in their lives and backstories, and because the focus and timeline were so intense and shortened that you didn’t have time to miss the deceased team members or need to have multiple supporting characters fleshed out and involved. CoE’s success though, is a major reason why Season 4 fell so flat.
Granted, Miracle Day was actually pretty good compared to most of what passes for SF on tv these days, but it also made abundantly clear that when Rex said, “Torchwood is dead”, he was speaking truth. Miracle Day tried to recapture or replicate that “Event” feel that CoE had, but it didn’t have a couple of prior series to give us the attachment to the characters that it needed. Gwen and Jack, while I love their characters, are not enough to carry on the Torchwood mantle alone, particularly given the decision to change Jack’s character from the irrepressible omnisexual to a almost strictly gay persona in this series. (Seriously, did he even flirt with a single female character in the entire MD series?) The massively expanded scope and timeline left the two core characters too small to fill the void of main protagonists, and yet the push for a coherent “Event” feel for the series left too little time to flesh out the rest of the “team” beyond the kinds of supporting character roles Lois and the rest had in CoE.
CoE basically ruined the franchise in that regard. Given a return to the kind of storytelling that marked the first two series with new team members, you could have developed the proper kind of investment in their fates and made some better sense and exploration of the admittedly mind-blowing implications of the kind of universal immortality that served as the driving force behind the plot. Instead, the tantalizing hints of those implications were tossed out the window after being mentioned in the first couple of episodes so the “Event” storyline could continue. Same with the peeks of backstory given to Rex and Esther, never to really be followed up on, particularly in Rex’s case. I mean, imagine the MD plot-line running through two or three 13-episode seasons with side trips dealing with the myriad implications of undying life and the family dramas of the characters, new and old. Could have been a really great run. Instead, being forced to follow CoE with some other kind of “Event” led to a compressed and poorly fleshed out storyline with compressed and poorly fleshed out character arcs. I only hope we don’t have to see them try to continue such efforts further.
theoncominghope
Ugh Torchwood. I won’t lie though, the last 5 minutes made me want to watch more.
But forget Torchwood, Doctor Who’s where it’s at! The last episode was very thoughtprovoking.
A few too many thoughts on last night’s Doctor Who: http://theoncominghope.blogspot.com/2011/09/doctor-who-on-forgotten-wives-and.html
wolverina
Thanks for this thread. I am a committed dr who fan and have just gotten finished watching all episodes on netflix, and the current ones on dvr. Torchwood too!
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Doctor_Who_Wiki
my go too site for all things who and torchwood.
wolver
virag
eccleston was great. i understand that he didn’t want to be typecast.
nobody hates torchwood as much as rtd. with, season 3, it really seemed like he was trying to kill it, set it on fire and piss on the ashes. since he took it to america, apparently not.
thesebastiancat
They ought to give that doctor feller his own thing. You know, a spinoff from the Amy Pond show. Maybe even have it not be a soap opera about a missing baby! And the characters might not even die every week. Who knows, the universe might not even end every season.
(And I’ve been watching since John Pertwee) Not sure I can survive this stretch.
thesebastiancat
They ought to give that doctor feller his own thing. You know, a spinoff from the Amy Pond show. Maybe even have it not be a soap opera about a missing baby! And the characters might not even die every week. Who knows, the universe might not even end every season.
(And I’ve been watching since John Pertwee) Not sure I can survive this stretch.
FollowtheDough
Mekhi Phifer is a great addition to Torchwood. Fantastic actor and great phrasing. For a few moments I thought he was going to be a corrupt guy for good. :)
It’s so obvious Captain Jack was cast with finding a Tom Cruise for television. His voice and appearance, it’s insane how much he embodies Tom Cruise.
FollowtheDough
BTW this blog needs a Breaking Bad thread! Every sunday :)
Blue galangal
David Tennant started out fun but rapidly devolved into something that was not quite satisfying. It took a while to put my finger on it, but between the Sarah Jane ep and the Dalek/Cybermen trash talking, I finally figured it out: a lot of the DT eps seemed to be fanfic. “the Time War was time locked! You can’t be here!” “yet here I am…”
Very unsatisfying; you don’t need to manipulate canon and emotions to make us love and care about the characters.
Kristine
@Blue galangal: David Tennant started out fun but rapidly devolved into something that was not quite satisfying.
Friends of mine adored DT, but while he’s decent enough actor, I never got the attraction. I loved Eccleston for his edge and physical presence–Tom Baker was my first Doctor and my fave for years, but CE overtook him.
Yet I like Matt Smith. He’s this elderly, slightly demented Victorian gentleman in a young man’s body, dithery and silly. Then the light in his eye chills and I see a little bit of CE.
FollowtheDough
@Kristine:
Wrong Tennant=FTW
twiffer
@Jay in Oregon: they mention that exposure to the untempered schism is what created the time lords (over millions of years). for river, it seems that being conceived in the tardis is the key.
twiffer
fwiw: i think moffat is doing a great job running the show. i love smith’s doctor (loved tennant too, eccelston, eh…started to grow on my about the time he left). i like the season long story arcs; that’s just the sort of shows that i prefer. i like the writing and the characters and the misdirections. i don’t give two fucks about the paradoxes and seeming paradoxes because travelling back in time is always a fucking paradox.
for those who think davies did a better job, i have two words: tinkerbell jesus
dlw32
Loved Dr Who also from the third Dr (Pertwee).
I was very fond of Torchwood S1&2. But as someone said, Jack and Gwen are not enough. I miss Owen and Tosh, but in particualr, it’s not Torchwood without Ianto. And they killed off Ianto stupidly, like an npc (an “extra” if you don’t speak RPG).
So I was prepared to hate Torchwood MD and it has exceeded my expectations. Most importantly the pacing is god-awful. It feels like they’ve taken what should have been at most a 2 hr ep and are trying to make it fit 10 hrs. There are entire eps that could (and should) have been simply cut from the season. Of the new cast, the only interesting one was the doctor and they’ve managed to kill her off in a world where people can’t die… so they’ve really gone the extra mile there… It’s really awful…
Anyway, watch the S1&2.