Before I get any more emails and tweets, let’s put this latest blog drama to bed. Rather than a long free-form post, we’ll just do bullet points.
1.) I have no idea what Anne Laurie was thinking. It’s bad form to flame another front-pager over something as silly someone being banned, and I wish she hadn’t done it. If she won’t, I’ll apologize to ABL and company. I’m sorry.
2.) I find it amazing that all of this was over Cornerstone. Cornerstone isn’t some noble do-gooder speaking truth to power, he’s just a troll. He’ll take one side of an argument, and if that doesn’t get people sufficiently riled up, he’ll take the other side. This is obvious to any of you who do not have him pied- he usually just trumpets whatever other commenter has managed to piss the most people off in any given thread.
3.) To the 500 people on twitter and email who have written to inform me that “ANNE LAURIE TOOK A BIG DUMP ALL OVER ABL AND COMPANY,” thank you so much for your astute observation. I noticed, because if you will look at her post, she also took some time to crap on my chest. But thank you for your concern and your willingness to offer unsolicited advice on how to run the blog.
4.) To the same crowd who have been screaming at me to delete the post, I’ll remind you that we do not do that. In fact, the last time I tried to assert editorial control like that, I deleted an ABL post that I thought was passing poorly sourced attacks on Hamsher. The outcry (no doubt from the some of the same people now demanding I delete Anne’s post) was such that I immediately reinstated the post, and have decided WE WILL NEVER DELETE POSTS HERE.
5.) No. I’m not going to ban Anne, no I am not going to publicly browbeat her, etc. We all do something stupid from time to time. In the future, I would ask all front pagers if they are confused about why someone has been banned or given a time-out, they email me or the other front pagers and find out what has happened.
Finally, and this has nothing to do with Anne’s post, but does have to do with some of the things I have seen at this blog- I never really understood racism until ABL joined the staff. I’ve seen some of the most horrifying things directed at ABL in comments, and I have done my best to delete them from the spam filter before any of you ever see them. I’m not talking about the stuff you all perceive as racism from time to time in the comments. I’m talking pure unadulterated filth by commenters named “SUBHUMAN,” spewing bile that would make attendees at a Klan rally blush. So for those of you who think ABL is just some drama queen, you haven’t seen some of the shit she has been subjected to. Even then, I’d bet ABL would somewhat agree that she is a bit of a drama queen. Everyone who blogs is.
So everyone simmer down now. We have Republicans to beat.
SIA
Gee, you sound so….grown up.
quaker in a basement
Now see what ya’ll did? You got Dad in one of his moods.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
Drive on brother!
eemom
nice job, Cole.
eemom
@SIA:
He really IS The Only Grown Up In The Room! Who’d’a thunk?
danimal
Thanks, pops. Looks like I picked a bad weekend to spend IRL, all the fun was here.
ruemara
I am fairly sure that the people you’re directing numbers 4 & 5 statements to have no sense of irony and the ones who maybe should be listening to your aside statement are already poopooing whatever little voice they have telling them that perhaps there maybe something to raci–naw, it’s just drama queening. It’s depressing to see, but the main goal of defeating republicans remains in sight.
Marc
I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by your last paragraph, and yet I was. People can be such absolute jerks sometimes.
trollhattan
There you go. We can’t win if we’re eating our own young.
licensed to kill time
umm….megadittos? ;)
Captain Haddock
I miss the days when it was just John (pre and post conversion) and DougJ was a very funny mock troll.
Wag
This.
campionrules
Clearly this must be decided by a jello wrestling match between ABL and Anne. The Gods will have it no other way.
Bobby D
Full-Meta-Jacket.
But I did enjoy the Cleveland steamer on the chest bit.
kd bart
6) This is, of course, good news for John McCain.
c u n d gulag
Remember, the best tool that Conservatives have is ‘Divide and Conquor!’
And what do you suppose some of the trolls are here for, but that?
I love all of the front pagers here.
We all make mistakes.
Let’s forgive and forget.
We have the Repubians to beat in 2012! And ’14. And ’16. Etc…
Oh yeah, and in YOUR LOCAL elections, too!
Trinity
Thank you John.
Cat Lady
A to the Men. I heart John Cole.
Jewish Steel
John Doom Galt Cole* lays it doooownn!
*stolen from CS
General Stuck
Kudos, and I’ll say the same thing when ABL’s post was taken down, that any idiot Obama supporter, or Obot, calling for Anne Lauries post to be taken down, just STFU already.
You still The Man senor Cole!
Elie
Looks like I missed some shit.
I had a great time this weekend holiday and would have been pissed off and in a bad mood if I had participated.
Thanks John for jumping in with some “adult” energy. Looks like it was sorely needed.
And yes, your last point — Republicans to beat — may need to be impressed on a few folks here.
As for Corner Stone… he is what he is.. better to ignore unless you just want to fight.
The Dangerman
I see Romney is unveiling his jobs plan today; is there any proposal from their side that doesn’t include tax cuts or gutting regulations?
Nied
F#$king-A that’s one of the best things I’ve read on this blog in a while now.
ABL
Thanks, John.
I’d like to point out to the folks who think I “cried racism” and wielded the banhammer unfairly that I saw CS’s accusation that “Darnell” hated white people and while I found it offensive, I let it roll off. I didn’t consider banning him (or whatever the appropriate terminology is for a time out) until another minority commenter pointed out that maybe a time out was warranted.
I’m most troubled by those who jumped into the pile-on without having the facts. I believe had Anne emailed me beforehand, this could have been avoided.
THe attacks on my “followers” were unwarranted and considering that a large section of those “followers” are minorities, I do think an apology to them is appropriate and I think they would appreciate one.
Finally, as to the charges of McCarthyism, those were out of line. My grandfather was fired from his job in the Philadelphia School District for refusing to name names. The case was consolidated with other cases and made its way to the Supreme Court. (That is in no small part one of the reasons I became a lawyer.) It caused my family a lot of hardship, and it is something that haunted my grandmother until the day she died. That any comparison would be drawn between Corner Stone and my grandfather (and many of his friends) is, in my view, unconscionable. That such a comparison would be drawn before the person drawing it had a full grasp of the facts is troubling.
But again, I am not looking for an apology nor am I trying to martyr myself or draw sympathy. GIven the 1000 comments relating to me, I think I deserve to write this comment, which I hope will be seen as measured. What happened happened and we should all just move on.
-ABL
JPL
Thanks John
I appreciate the mix of front page posts. It’s up to me to decide which posts to read.
MsWimey
I far prefer the Rosie rants but she’s busy lulling John into a false sense of security before the next strike.
But still..
Well said
Tom Hilton
I’m really glad I missed the drama, but equally glad I was around for the extremely sane Cole post resolving it all. Good job.
General Stuck
Forgot. AND THIS!!
Montysano
To quote Roger Waters: “Gotta admit that I’m a little bit confused”.
I took the weekend off from blogworld and spent it instead interacting with humans, eating, drinking, and listening to great music cranked up to 11. So…. whatever it was that happened, I’m good.
John Weiss
Good going JC. I was distressed: thought that the place had gone orange for a bit.
kindness
And that announcement is followed by a public service announcement for the faithful:
‘Please proceed to the Jonestown room where they are passing out refreshing KoolAide’.
Zifnab
@c u n d gulag:
That’s not so much a conservative tool as a liberal self-destructive tendency conservatives just like taking advantage of.
Alex S.
Excellent post.
bemused
“So everyone simmer down now. We have Republicans to beat”.
Amen, repeatedly.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
How does anyone really know what race another commenter is?
gordon schumway
CornerStone is John Cole’s Cameron Todd Willingham!
JPL
@ABL: When I read AL’s post, I felt that she should have posted the comment on your site so you could respond. That is the appropriate forum. At that point I turned off the computer and watched some TV.
I’m glad that you wrote your comment on this post rather than front page it.
Elie
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Probably self identified — if THAT can be relied upon!
I think also what complicates matters here is that some folks “play roles” — its sometimes hard to tell what they believe or what their reality is…
Violet
Thanks, John. Glad I missed all the drama. Sounds horrible.
I’m up for beating Republicans. Maybe we should do a Balloon-Juice fundraiser for some non-Republican candidate, as a way to work together and get past this divide-and-conquer nonsense.
Wiesman
When I read Anne Laurie’s post about ABL’s followers I was really pissed, because I’ve never been invited to a meeting or anything, and I’d at least like a T-shirt or something.
Oh well.
Dramatic blog is dramatic.
lemmingsrus
This is such a beautiful thing. It seems to have made all my work around here worthwhile. I am wiping a tear of joy from my eye and can’t help but think I had something to do with this in my own small way.
I have succeeded in bringing out the worst in BJ into the bright light where it belongs for all to see.
To you Captain Doom John Galt Cole I only have one thing to say for myself (besides the obvious “you reap what you sow”)……..WINNING!
Dave
Oh yeah…THOSE guys…
catclub
@trollhattan: “We can’t win if we’re eating our own young.”
We love our children, delicious!
Ben Cisco
Way to go Cole. This is why I stay.
__
Also:
I humbly suggest this become a tag, it’s both appropriate and desperately needed, now more than ever.
TooManyJens
@ABL:
As I said in one of the endless threads: For all that we mock “low-information voters” around here, it’s amazing how many people have prided themselves on being low-information commenters on these threads.
@John Cole:
Fuck. YEAH.
WereBear
I saw Darnell calling him out… which says a lot about the troll involved. But I try so hard to NOT FEED THE TROLL.
Let them stew in bitterness. And criminy; the racism John mentioned is just sick.
I always try to remember about miserable people; I actually wouldn’t have the heart to make them as miserable as they make themselves.
Emma
Thank you. I started reading this blog back in the Terry Schiavo days and it has become one of my three absolute daily musts. A great deal of the credit goes to you.
lemmingsrus
This is such a beautiful thing. It seems to have made all my work around here worthwhile. I am wiping a tear of joy from my eye and can’t help but think I had something to do with this in my own small way.
I have succeeded in bringing out the worst in BJ into the bright light where it belongs for all to see.
To you Captain Doom John Galt Cole I only have one thing to say for myself……..WINNING!
Enjoy your sad excuse for a blog Cup Half Empty Cole. You reap what you sow.
jnfr
I dealt with those threads by not reading them. Voila!
I do think a Tunch picture would make things better though.
JPL
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): I have no clue but from your posts, I know you are a white guy who fought in nam and lives in Athens with a talented gardener. You are also about my age and you have two wonderful pets. Of course, you posted pictures so that helped.
BTW..I only had an itch of rain. The trees aren’t happy.
John Weiss
@ABL: ABL, I wish you lived down the street. Well. Have a beer on me, too bad it can’t be with me.
TooManyJens
@lemmingsrus: Could you please stick to one nym so I don’t have to keep adding you to the pie filter? Thanks ever so much.
General Stuck
This has all been very tiring and has occasioned a case of the galloping vapors, and I shall repair to the fainting couch to repair my delicate nerves. Fans self. bunch of aminals.
JPL
What would help is more Rosie pictures.
Chinn Romney
This whole drama could’ve been avoided if y’all turned off your computers once in a while. You missed a gorgeous 3 day weekend out there, and I see you still haven’t solved any of the world’s problems. I’m starting to think you never will.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Elie: “self identified”
hmmm
Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .
Whois query: “and company”?
Ash Can
After skimming the threads of the last few days (I’ll be damned if I’m going to waste time reading them in detail, let alone participating in them), I’m not surprised Cole had to pull the station wagon over and bawl the hell out of everyone in the back seat. Shit was getting out of hand.
c u n d gulag
@Zifnab:
Very good point!
Josh James
It’s really amazing how much racism still drives things, it really does … it comes from some primal place of hate and fear, I think … the ancient Greeks (one of them) wrote that people first begin to define themselves by defining that which they are not (skin color, country, etc) … and to that I’d add, and hating it.
It’s terrible and what’s infuriating is that many of those driven by that engine, racism, steadfastly refuse to admit it … and go to great lengths to prove otherwise (some of my best friends, etc) …
It’s patently obvious that a large majority of the hate toward Obama is racism-based … a huge amount of it is that, it can’t be policy or reasonable-ness … it’s just that he’s OTHER … and that scares the hell out of them … and when people get scared, they get angry …
I like ABL, myself, even when I don’t agree with her … I’m not to worked up when someone curses in CAPS over that which makes them upset …
Can I ask, though, have you thought about not doing the whole anonymous commenting thing? I myself dislike it … I think if one is going to make a statement, they should put their name to their words …
Valdivia
This is why I love you John. And love this place. And I must say that I found the whole kerkuffle bizarre. And I have also found the vitriol against ABL equally unwarranted. Have been lurking mainly because I can’t take the constant ragging on the President on outrageous terms. There was a time when this place was about witty informed banter about actual policy so I just read your posts and skip the comments. But I’ll keep coming back for more.
Ben Cisco
@lemmingsrus: That’s a lot of pie you’re eating there.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Chinn Romney: How the fuck do you know it was gorgeous? It was hot as shit and the dawgs got throttled. On top of that the goddamn tropical storm missed Athens and the drought is a bad as ever.
TooManyJens
@Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .: I’m going to guess, all of the people AL referred to as ABL’s brainless, incoherent camp followers.
JPL
@Raven (formerly stuckinred): Code words..lol..
OT..Since it’s 63 degrees here, it might be time to find the sweaters. lol Did you get the rain that kept missing my house?
Sam Houston
SNL:
simmah dahn naa
simmah dahn naa
simmah dahn naa
simmah dahn naa
Rey
This post and this blog is why I love clicking on several times a day. I know you are a white man because I’ve seen pics of your parents, sibs and your feet. Still not convinced doug j or big poppa or big baby jesus or whomever the hell he is this week is a white man- but he is super cool too!
Rey +1–hey I’m on vacation!
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@JPL: Nope, maybe 1/4 inch total.
greennotGreen
I was confused and surprised by the Anne Laurie post, but even the best of us sometimes have a major off day, so I’m glad you’re not booting her. And ABL is teh awesome! People can always skip the posts of front pagers they don’t like. If they skip them because of the color of the persons skin, I hope they’ll just skip right over to another blog. We don’t have to agree on everything, but there are some things we should agree on, and no racism is one of them.
Also that Tunch must be obeyed.
flukebucket
@Captain Haddock:
Those really were the days.
I kept hoping somebody would post one of those “simmadownnow” audio files while reading the 700 comment pukefest this morning.
Frankensteinbeck
I completely agree with every single detail.
Except… holy crap, seriously with the stuff you’re wiping? Damn. Says a lot about why ABL’s so sensitive to race. It’s the shit we (who don’t have to deal with it) don’t see that justifies her.
pragmatism
you mad bro?
http://gawker.com/5837350/high-schoolers-you-mad-bro-sign-called-racial-intimidation
Alex S.
OT: The remnants of Gaddafi’s regime have crossed borders into Niger.
I have to post this because I am really proud of how much things turned out the way I expected them to during this whole affair.
TooManyJens
@Josh James:
Google “nymwars”. Long story short, there are lots of perfectly valid reasons why people shouldn’t be required to attach their legal names to comments on the Internet. Persistent pseudonyms are just as good for allowing people to build up credibility (or lack thereof) over time.
JGabriel
John Cole @ Top:
Fox News is already airing this quote, accompanied by cartoon footage of union thugs slapping baseball bats with their hands.
.
PurpleGirl
For various reasons (like closing down the computer so I could go into the bedroom to read) I missed all the drama last night. I was a little surprised seeing certain posts this morning. (I decided not to read the threads, didn’t really read the posts either.)
I think blog reading is like TV watching — you can always turn it off or change the channel.
chopper
i’ll put in my 2 cents before going back to hatin on the people that deserve hatin.
i came back from vacay at the jersey shore (BTW, not nearly as many meatheads as i expected to see) to see an idiotic blogwar between two FPers. never thought i’d see a FPer go to the mat for such a clear asshole troll as CS, but then again anne doesn’t seem to pay much attention to the comments unless it’s one of her diaries. i mean, who doesn’t know that CS is a troll that deliberately talks assholish and crypto-racist shit to get a rise out of people? it’s been that way for as long as i can remember.
all in all, it’s just a showing that the FPers don’t pay much attention to the comentariat. truth be told, it’s kinda difficult, there are a fuck-ton of posts and a lot of comments every single day. these people have jobs and shit. OTOH, anne’s post was utter garbage. she’s given people time-outs for similar shit, and starting a FP pie-fight while at the same time calling out another FPer for ‘strutting in front of a crowd’ was the height of idiotic hypocrisy.
bush. bush league.
JPL
@Alex S.: Nice..
The media seems to have forgotten about Libya.
licensed to kill time
You know what would be interesting? Some kind of stats on who gets pied the most. I don’t know if cleek has the capability to collect stats, but it would be….enlightening.
Maybe in the form of a pie pie chart, haha!
Frankensteinbeck
@chopper:
Believe it or not, I didn’t know. I thought he was just an unreasonable idiot. I’m not good at detecting deliberate trolls. It’s a mindset that makes no sense to me. How sad do you have to be that making other people angry is what’s important to you?
chopper
i wouldn’t doubt that at all. if this were a completely open and unedited posting environment i’d figure a lot of the people screaming about how ABL is ‘way too sensitive’ would STFU about it.
Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .
TooManyJens: Not possible. I have it a good authority that such persons do not exist, at least as an identifiable collective.
Ahhh, fuckit, too much too keep track of . . .
kth
@Sam Houston: citation needed
gn
Seems like ABL survived Harriet Christian’s Inadequate Black Blogger spiel (h/t eclecticbrotha) well enough to be posting today about The Evil One piloting a program to make sure more poor kids eat their lunch. So the incident certainly doesn’t warrant calling out or banning front pagers in my eyes, good call. OT–I’ve just got to say, there are some deeply funny and entertaining commenters here. Well done.
TooManyJens
@Frankensteinbeck:
I can’t really tell the difference either. Both types are assholes; I just pie ’em all and let the oven sort ’em out.
Big Baby DougJ
@Captain Haddock:
People started to recognize what I was doing and I couldn’t keep it up. I wish I could have.
Linda Featheringill
I had no idea that John was filtering out the worst of the racist filth. I must be naive. Good thing that you’re doing it, though, John.
Frankensteinbeck
@chopper:
Yeah, that one paragraph has changed my viewpoint on the subject radically.
AxelFoley
So what, it’s all over? We gotta hug it out now?
Fuck.
Ben Cisco
@licensed to kill time: I fist bump in your general direction.
chopper
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
true fact: ABL is actually a calm white man. ironically, SPaT is actually as old as she says she is, and all the stuff she talks about really happened.
Amir Khalid
@JPL:
Not really. As things stand, the rebels have pretty much won it, and they’re clearing the last pockets of Qaddafi loyalists. It’s looking less and less likely that the old coot is going to come back. The transitional council is in country and establishing itself as the government in charge, and previously frozen Libyan funds abroad are being released to it.
pragmatism
how would you read donna summer’s name in the phone book?
TooManyJens
@Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .: Whatever.
MikeBoyScout
Let’s all try and do our best to remember that.
All of us understand all too well that no matter how many ponies Obama and the Democrats have denied us, and no matter how many Front Pagers at BJ have not posted in the way we’d like, and no matter the annoyance of trolls and droll comments,
The worst thing for all of us and the planet we live on is for the teabagging Republican party not to be taken out and beaten in 2012.
No easy task. And it shall take the patience and determination of everyone who strolls by our beloved BJ to get ‘er done.
Jay B.
Irony just puked.
chopper
@Frankensteinbeck:
it helps that i’ve been here for a long-ass time. i remember back when it was just john, and he was a gooper getting shat on by his commenters on a daily basis.
Satanicpanic
For a moment I thought this blog was becoming the GOS
Monkey Business
Preferably with a two by four covered in rusty nails.
licensed to kill time
@Ben Cisco:
I hope it’s not one o’ them terrist kinda bumps o.O
Morbo
As I write this:
That does not sparkle.
Dave
Oh my god. There’s like a universe of facepalm in that statement. I can promise that you still do not understand racism.
Anyway, this is a fine blog. I like DougJ and DougJ, Jr. just fine, whatever, and Anne Laurie and Kay seem nice and well-informed (and also they seem to be the most invested in writing here). Tom L is kind of a twerp. I SAW THIS PICTURE ONCE, NOW YOU LOOK.
Whatever. I’m sure y’all will get a grip at some point. Who cares.
Death Panel Truck
I missed this weekend’s clusterfuck because, well, I have a life. Y’all have waaaaaay too much time on your hands. Shut your computers off and go the fuck outside once in a while. Mow your lawns. Paint your houses. Change the oil in your car. Help a little old lady across the street. Goddamnit, do something besides sitting on your asses arguing with people you’ve never met and never will.
Gotta go to work. I don’t have all day to waste reading blogs.
Brian
“It’s bad form”? What’s bad form is wielding a ban hammer, taunting the community, and willy nilly closing threads because you’re thin skinned and prone to flaunting your supposed power. (And yes, that ‘you’ = ABL).
I missed this particular drama except for AL’s post, but I find it pretty laughable that you’ll go around apologising to ABL.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@chopper: I didn’t say FP’ers.
Alison
Thank you for this post, John, and especially for the part about the dismal depths of nasty bigotry that ABL faces that we don’t see.
Of course, some of us knew it was the case – as it always is when you live life as someone who is the target for the prejudiced animus of others. If you’re a man, you will never truly understand the depths of sexism most women face. If you’re straight, you’ll never completely know how horrific homophobia can be in every day life.
And likewise, many white people just do not get what it is like to be a POC in this society. I find it somewhat sad that a handful of people here have been saying “OMG RLY WOW SO SAD” about the scale of hate in the spam comments…that it took a white dude telling them it happens for them to believe it, rather than *ABL herself* telling them over and over and over and over again while defending herself against accusations of being “thin-skinned” and sensitive and “crying racism”. So many people just refused to think there was more than an iota of truth to her words…until a white guy confirms it? I respect that y’all have come around, but you might want to examine that part of yourself just a bit.
When someone who lives a different life than you tells you what that life is like…Try. Fucking. Listening.
Anyway, sorry, I had to get that out.
AxelFoley
@Brian:
All in the Kool-Aid and don’t know what flavor it is.
ABL
@John Weiss: i’m in ur baysement drinkking ur beerz.
Ben Cisco
@licensed to kill time:
Heh.
__
Can never see that phrase again w/o remembering what an eeeeediot E.D. Hill is.
TooManyJens
@Brian: We do not need to hear still more thoughts from people who have no idea what the fuck went on. Seriously, what do you think that adds?
handy
@Jay B.:
Just for giggles, the other day I was reading some of Cole’s older stuff from 03-04. Man, you ain’t kidding.
serge
Ahhh, I love the smell of napalm in the morning! I do love this place, if for no other reason than its ability to get under the collective skin and make it itch. Scratch it, and let’s move on (no pun intended).
chopper
@Brian:
‘wielding a ban hammer’, lol. you make it sound like she bans people all the time. shit, doug and cole have banned waaaay more people than ABL ever has. how many people, in fact, has ABL given a time-out to, exactly? i know anne has done it too. OH NOES, TEH BAN HAMMAR!
JPL
@Big Baby DougJ: Every once in awhile I think I’m reading a comment by the old Doug lurking behind another name.
Elie
@Emma:
Totally agree…though sometimes I skip if the negativity makes me too crazy…
ABL
@Brian: you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
Cuppa Cabana
There’s something off about this, ABL. You think it would be appropriate if Anne Lauie were to say, “Considering that a lot of you guys are minorities, I apologise.”?
I love you, but yeesh.
chopper
@Alison:
one of the hardest parts of being white is actually seeing white privilege and crypto racism. it’s very easy to ignore.
Brian
@TooManyJens: John’s rebuke on Anne seemed completely over the top, given what he’s allowed ABL to do.
chopper
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
i ought to ban you for that comment.
Linda Featheringill
@Alison:
You may be right. In fact, you probably are.
On the other hand, maybe John speaks our language and so we can understand him. ABL’s discomfort is frequently obvious. What she means by the words she strings together isn’t always obvious. And that is a fact.
And it isn’t always clear just what in the hell she expects us to do about some of this shit, except absorb punishment for what some other asshole has done.
ABL
i didn’t say that.
and with that, i’m exiting.
i hope everyone enjoys their day.
TooManyJens
@Brian: I don’t care what you think. You don’t know what went on, by your own admission. Uninformed opinion is worthless.
Jewish Steel
There can never be perfect communication and a perfect balance of power between any two people, let alone a whole roiling sea of passionate believers, technical experts, trolls, observers etc.
Couples have to learn how to fight constructively and not catastrophically every time there is conflict. So do friends and, I guess, blogs too.
This has been your moment of inspiration.
eemom
ya gotta love it when the blog owner lays down the law and puts an end to the shit after two long, vitriol-packed threads….everyone appreciates it and starts to chill out
— and then some random loser asshole comes along with his meaningless two cents that nobody gives a shit about to try to stir the whole mess up again.
FlipYrWhig
I didn’t think Corner Stone was a troll in terms of switching sides of an argument just to fight. But he’s a troll in terms of going personal and insulting against other commenters, rather than staying on topic and making a case for what he actually believes. I still don’t know why Anne Laurie picks him out as “a voice I enjoy,” unless, as someone else was saying, she isn’t in the habit of following threads to their ends, which is where most of the worst antics occur.
Cuppa Cabana
ABL! You did say:
You’re the lawyer and writer (sic), and you were explaining why you think an apology is appropriate.
They’re your words, or does “Considering that a large section of those “followers” are minorities” mean something else in your tongue?
I love you a little bit less now.
J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford
@Big Baby DougJ:
It was a thing a beauty.
Elie
@eemom:
You said that right…
what is it with some folks?
I am definitely glad I missed it but its clear that its just bubbling under the surface, ready to overflow again…
different church-lady
In the end you’ve probably described the day to day experience of every black person in this country. It’s like an iceberg — non-blacks are probably able to see only a tiny fraction of the burden borne.
Alison
@chopper: Absolutely agreed, which is why I think any white person (which I am) who considers themselves 1) any kind of progressive/liberal/Democrat/whatever; and 2) human and not a major a-hole, absolutely needs to check their privilege in conversations about race. MOST ESPECIALLY when that conversation is a POC talking about racism they’ve experienced and the white person finds themselves doubting it or second guessing or saying “BUT BUT BUT MAYBE THEY DIDN’T MEEEEEEAN IT THAT WAY” or whatever.
And really? At this point, I have little patience for white lefties who *still* don’t fucking understand privilege and all that. Open your motherfucking eyes, FFS.
chopper
@Brian:
he rebuked anne for getting all indignant and starting a fight on the FP with another FPer (and anne herself has given out time-outs too, which is what makes it so stupid).
different church-lady
@ABL:
Then political blogging just ain’t your thing.
Corner Stone
@ABL: Not to belabor this, but I’m actually very familiar with Darnell. I knew he wasn’t black (had claimed to be white, let me say) and no where in my post do I mention anything about his skin.
Anyone familiar with my posting here knows that not only am I an asshole, but I have a really good memory for comments and commenters.
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/04/27/surprising-court-decision/#comment-2555589
“And don’t even try to tell me I’m not Obama’s real base. I am white and progressive, and therefore NOT racist either. I just happen to think Obama isn’t acting like the black guy I thought we elected.”
And a couple like with this invective:
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/03/21/freedom-bombs-not-free-after-all/#comment-2489389
“That language is totally acceptable, of course, unlike pointing out white liberal racism towards the President, which of course is completely beyond the pale and unacceptable. (we all know white liberals all have “black friends”—translated: they work with a black person)”
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/03/13/brian-manning-talks-to-pbs-about-his-sons-detention/#comment-2474425
“(Serious, don’t even accuse white liberals of being racist. You can call the President liar and a failure any time you like, but accusing white Liberals like Hamsher and DailyKosters of racism is WAY OUTTA line!)”
So maybe the word “hate” was out of line. But every time Darnell stops by he accuses someone of being a racist, almost always “white” “progressives”. It’s pro forma to me at this point.
Anyway, not really as a “reply” to you ABL as I think you have me pied, but since it was in this healing thread I thought I would add a little context from my perspective.
Elie
@different church-lady:
I think that this is why some folks do not understand the passion that some of the black/brown commenters like me have about certain types of “criticism” of Obama. So many of the times white commenters will make what they think are bland comments and completely miss the condescention and sense of complete entitlement that they project.
I had to get off the “boards” here for a while a few days ago because of it. Explaining and trying to inform some folks about how they sound is next to a waste of time. Also
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
I would run my own blog with this as every post if I could get people to see it, but considering how well my diaries at DK are received, I’ll just say “This!” every time someone here or there says it.
This!
Corner Stone
Cole, that kinda hurts a little. I’m starting to reconsider our friendship.
Alison
@Linda Featheringill: “speaks our language and so we can understand him”?
The fuck? I’m pretty sure ABL speaks English, just like you and me. I have no trouble understanding “the words she strings together”. You realize it’s the same language whether the words come out of a white man’s mouth or a black woman’s, yes? So perhaps this is more about what you choose to hear (or read, as the case may be) rather than what’s being said/typed.
Crikey.
mike in dc
I think much of this is part of an age-old internal debate about whether it is always most important to stick up for purity of principle, or to accept the flaws and disappointments of “our” officeholders and externally support them while keeping the grumbling to a dull roar. What happens is that these internal debates often become really vicious and devolve into mud-slinging, name-calling and caricature of opposing viewpoints(“Firebaggers” vs. “Obots”), rather than an actual, productive exchange of viewpoints and ideas. I voted for Obama, hoping he would be “slightly to the left of Bill Clinton” in practice. I feel both partly vindicated and partly disappointed on that score–in terms of policy accomplishments, he’s gotten things done that Clinton failed to do, but on the other hand he’s carried out some policies that would be to the right of Clinton. But as disappointed as I might be, I haven’t stopped considering Obama my political ally rather than my political enemy. I think, once you do that, you tend to lose sight of the “big picture”. So my sympathies tend to lie a bit more with the ABLs and Coles of the blogosphere than with the Greenwalds and Hamshers. Having said all that, there is a place for “enforcing purity”, moving the party to the left via careful tactical and strategic maneuvering–a congressional primary challenge here and there, lobbying more effectively for progressive policy goals, changing the messaging in the MSM, etc.
I just don’t happen to think the way FDL et al go about it is terribly effective or productive–in fact, it can be (and has been) counterproductive, often alienating and dividing the activist/blogger community rather than uniting or strengthening it. YMMV.
I do hope Ms. Laurie will convey an apology to ABL at some point and squash all this.
Cowbelle
@c u n d gulag:
I forgive and forget when people apologize for namecalling, like “worthless turd” and “camp-follower.” If someone doesn’t acknowledge that as a mistake, what is there to forgive?
DaBomb
@Alison: THIS. ALL. THE. WAY.
Brian R.
No need to ban Anne Laurie, just ignore her posts. It’s worked for me so far.
drkrick
I heard someone on call-in radio announce themselves as a “first-time listener, long-time caller.” Seems to be a lot of that going around.
Nutella
@chopper:
And very comforting and convenient to ignore.
Brian R.
@Linda Featheringill:
No, that’s an opinion. One I don’t share in the least.
Gravie
Thanks for that, John.
Yevgraf
@quaker in a basement:
“If you brats don’t shut up this fucking instant, I’ll drive this car straight into that telephone pole”.
Candy King
Hear Hear!! John’s post is the reason I have read this blog since 2005- and also the reason I seldom read the comments.
Elie
@mike in dc:
The only disagreement that I have with your comment is that is does not emphasize strongly that the only way to “move the population to the left or more liberal — is to begin at the grass roots. YOu do not build demand for liberal policies by primarying someone. All you do, unless its judiciously and very selectively done, is make sure the republican or right winger gets elected. You also do absolutely nothing to increase the demand for progressive policies. Average people literally do not know that they can believe in and trust government and the left also sometimes echoes that sentiment — much to my dismay.
It IS very hard work to change the general expectations of the publiic after three decades or more of right winged dogma that government is the problem… YOu cannot change that from the top.
harlana
I enjoy ABL’s passion. I once knew what it was like to feel that sort of passion (about my country, or the country I thought I knew) before it drove me to the brink of insanity. So I know how many enemies you can acquire when you’re passionate about something that really, really matters in the real world. For that, I am sorry. But ABL is the resilient one, long live the passion!
Laertes
It’s terrible that people post racist filth to ABL’s threads, and that she has to put up with bullshit that other (presumably white) frontpagers don’t get.
Doesn’t change the fact that she’s a shameless attention hog, and prone to flipping out and acting a fool. I don’t skip her posts because she shows me stuff I wouldn’t get to see otherwise, and once in a while it’s really great. But there’s a lot of bad mixed in with the good, and AL was right on target when she wrote about ABL’s vicious little pack of disciples. Say anything that displeases her–and God knows, that’s easy to do–and they all shriek “racist.”
Brian
@chopper: Going back and re-reading it, John only apologised to ABL for that, so there is that. I still think this entire post is over the top with regards to Anne Laurie when his response to earlier ABL drama was to laugh it off. (And to those people complaining that “I don’t know what’s going on” … I didn’t read the thread where Cornerstone was banned. I read Anne Laurie’s thread, and the comments section, and chose not to voice anything there, because I didn’t follow the actual incident. This is the meta-response thread).
fasteddie9318
@FlipYrWhig:
If that’s the operative definition, then this place is literally packed to the gills with trolls, on every side of the Great Bloggy War of 2011.
Cowbelle
@Brian:
Did you really write that on John fuckin’ Cole’s blog?
At least 50% of JC’s post content consists of “taunting the community.” It just bugs you when a black lady does it, right?
Laertes
@Cowbelle:
Here’s a great example of the casual, careless accusation of racism.
Elie
@Laertes:
Would you say that its fair to say that you may not always see racism or be as sensitive to it as POC. Not meant to be a criticism but a fact.
As for ABL’s interpretation and response to specific comments, I won’t go there… I am not a consistent enough follower of any front pager here to know everything that they do and frankly am not interested in that. I come in and out as my schedule and interest dictates and I freqently skip posts that I don’t want to be pulled into or lurk without comment.
The other thing is that some folks need to get lives and stop being “internet shut ins” to borrow a term from aisce. Go out and actually talk to some “colored people”. ABL is just one person.
Prairie Logic
Indeed:
JC… This should be moved to the top. As I said to my wife this morning after she asked me ‘who was supposedly the frontrunner for Prez’ when the radio talking head blathered away how Obama’s popularity was tanking and had a better than even chance of losing… “Take your pick of the loonies on the R side. They want us all upset with Obama because they think we’ll then just stay home and allow them to elect a President Perry or Bachmann or Romney or Palin…” That title sounds great in front of their name, doesn’t it?
geg6
Thanks, Cole. This is exactly why I came to BJ and why I stay.
Samara Morgan
i liek ABL. i lieked that jewish guy that the juicers rode out on a rail right after i got here. if i’d been stronger i would have stood up for him…..moar….vehemently.
i do not like glibertarian frontpagers (like Kain and de Bore), thousand word kangaroo slap fights over nothing, or PC timeouts dealt out to protect weak frontpagers….im lookin’ at you John.
ABL can ban who she lieks off her threads. Right?
BTW, did you hear Mittens is a Peaceful Democracy fan, Cole? i did catch his foreign policy in the Waterloo Q&A.
i just cant take deMint srsly anymore.
Yevgraf
@eemom:
*sigh* Please fulfill my fantasies and run off with me for a long, embarrassingly argumentative and boozy weekend fling….
soonergrunt
That about says it.
Cowbelle
@Laertes: You’re right, “taunting the community” may bug Brian only when it comes from a woman like ABL, and not from a man when it comes from JC.
So maybe he’s just sexist and not racist at all.
Or do you have another reason why, at John Cole’s blog, someone would list “taunting the community” as a grievous sin for a FPer to commit?
Trolling the readership from the front page is a long-honored tradition here. Why is it wrong if ABL does it?
gogol's wife
No time to read the thread (and maybe I shouldn’t even when I do have time), but thank you, Mr. Cole. I hope things get back to somewhat more like what they used to be. There are a lot of good people here from whom I learn a huge amount.
Elie
@Elie:
I have to admit thought that I have “gone off” from time to time…
Hey — no one is perfect…
Samara Morgan
@Prairie Logic: look.
he doesnt have a “better than even chance of losing”.
that is bulshytt.
Distributed Jesusland cant win a presidential election.
pika
Bravo and brava, John and ABL. Can’t say anything else, except I would love another “GUESTS FLEEING” type of tweet.
debit
@Elie:
Apart from the rest of this whole mess, I do wish that was one lesson people would take to heart. As a white person, you (rhetorical) simply don’t get to decide what qualifies as racist to a POC. Further, the response is not “I didn’t mean for that to be racist” or list the reason why you (rhetorical) feel it wasn’t. The proper response is, “I’m sorry.”
aisce
@ elie
what? when did i do this? it certainly sounds like me, but i don’t know what you’re referring to.
by the way, you can tell that this is an actually “serious” post by cole because there’s no picture of a little old lady or a chimpanzee giving us the finger. just for future reference for the next balloon juice throwdown.
Samara Morgan
@Elie: c’mon, CS baited her into banning him.
it was a set up.
i jus’ ax him who he hated moar, me or ABL on a previous thread.
i wudn’t take the bait so he went after her. he was gunna escalate his offensiveness until she took the bait.
Elie
@aisce:
It was just a random comment you made on one of the threads and I just laughed my ass off reading it cause it was so true. I can qualify for that myself from time to time…
The Populist
In internet parlet, Cornerstone was easily PWNED if you threw junk back at that idiot and mixed in facts. That troll has nothing on posters here. I remember throwing some facts back at that troll (my M.O. with idiots) and all that troll could do is respond in an “oh yeah? Right…punk” type comment.
Sorry, I trust the majority of regulars here. I read more than I post and a troll is pretty easy to spot. Some of the righties here are fun to argue with because they can at least debate. The idiots like Cornerstone and Brick Oven and all the rest are just tired trolls who will NEVER be right and think just because they rile up a few posters that makes them special. Nope. Loser comes to mind.
El Tiburon
@Bobby D:
SCHWIIIINNGGG!!!!
Too soon?
Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .
‘tako-chin: And it’s always about you, isn’t it?
Sheesh, you can take the WEC out of the ‘tako, but the narcissism is endemic.
The Populist
@WereBear:
If you feed a mental midget like Cornerstone just stick to facts while calling them out as morons. It’s obvious that people like that are trolls. The key is to retain your intelligence when putting them in their place. Ignoring them never works because SOMEBODY will call them a name then it begins.
The Populist
Oh and to anybody reading this, has anybody posted a comment on this story? If not, this is why Cornerstone is a speck of dirt compared to the crap this will do to people’s freedoms:
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/09/arizonas-case-against-the-voting-rights-act/244548/
Arizona’s Case Against the Voting Rights Act
Arizona’s new Republican Attorney General, Tom Horne, filed a suit last month asking a federal court to declare that § 5 of the Voting Rights Act of 1965 is unconstitutional. Arizona–in some ways the Mississippi of the 21st Century–is a weird plaintiff, and its claims are even weirder; but weirder claims have succeeded in the past. The Supreme Court signaled in 2009 that it was a bit weary of all this right-to-vote business. If “state’s-rights” advocates succeed in weakening the Act, and gutting Congress’s enforcement power under the Fifteenth Amendment, it will be a matter of serious concern.
Odie Hugh Manatee
1 – No need to apologize for something you did not do but thank you.
2 – I agree, Cornerstone was a pretty poor hill for someone to pick for a war like this. If anything, this fed right into his shtick.
3 – I’m sorry to hear that you took a load over this issue too. Wash well, crap stinks.
4 – Agreed.
5 – Good enough though AL pretty much browbeat herself to death at my end. I know I have no desire to participate in any thread she will ever post here and that’s good enough for me. I will avoid her like the plague and I hope she does likewise. My opinion on this can change but that is up to how AL responds to all of this and if she sincerely apologizes to ABL for what happened. For now that is good enough for me.
Thanks for standing behind ABL John, she did nothing wrong here and the shit she has been having to deal with since coming here is nothing short of amazing. It’s like seeing a side of BJ that I never knew existed, a particularly ugly one that I wish hadn’t seen.
Thanks John. I’m sorry to see you have to step up and deal with a problem this stupid but thanks for doing so. This never should have happened and there was absolutely no reason for it to have.
LanceThruster
Won’t anyone think of the children?!?!
I’m glad I miss the snit-fit for the most part.
FlipYrWhig
@fasteddie9318: Yeah, I’ve noticed, and it sucks, and when I do it myself, it’s not helping. But some people do nothing _but_ that. “Hey, fuckstick, try reading an actual Greenwald piece before popping off about how much you hate the guy, and you might learn something and be less of a fucking idiot than usual,” might be mean, but has a modicum of actual political content. “That all you got, fucking li’l bitch?”, as occurs at the end of nearly every thread, is not attempting to discuss politics.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I would like to add my internets shut-in screech to both of these sentiments.
@Odie Hugh Manatee: 2 – I agree, Cornerstone was a pretty poor hill for someone to pick for a war like this.
Somebody last night said they enjoy CS’s “voice”, my thought was “well, somebody must like Gilbert Godfried and Fran Drescher, too”. Though I have to admit, again, that of all the bitter contraritrolls, CS at least has some sense of humor.
MattR
@debit:
Do you think that applies equally to sexism or religious
discriminationbigotry?Persia
@Odie Hugh Manatee:
Yeah, I’ve always liked the gardening posts and I mostly lurk, but…the fuck was all that. I was accusing one of ABL’s camp-followers (who claims to be a white man of German/Swiss extraction, but on the internet, who knows?) of trolling behind a fake persona in the hope that someone could be baited into saying something that would give ‘Darnell from LA’ the excuse to shriek like a scalded ferret about his own high-minded political sensibilities. What the fuuuuck.
gwangung
Yuppers. In spades.
I’m not surprised at this.
And…..
I find this appropriate, as well.
gwangung
Ah, man, I’m no friend of Corner Stone, but that was a damn near mortal insult…..
El Cid
I would like to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th this Anne Laurie comment as a general principle. It’s one I’ve made here before, many times. It doesn’t suggest that you don’t care passionately about an issue, but it does suggest that this is not an actual decision-making forum, and it is not a place where all musings and plaints must fit with electoral / anti-electoral campaigning, and it is not a place in which questions and points not directly relevant to pushing a particular position or policy can and should be made and asked.
And that mostly it appears to be a non-serious place for banter and sarcasm and such, since there are actually issue and expertise-oriented blogs on nearly any matter touched upon here.
And so, here it is, with particular references removed:
lethargytartare
@Corner Stone:
did you really think that was him saying he was white? here’s the whole quote:
“Who cares about the Supreme Court? I will still vote 3rd party in 2012 because Obama didn’t give me my fucking Unicorn! And don’t you dare try to defend him, cos if you do your are NOT a real progressive. And don’t even try to tell me I’m not Obama’s real base. I am white and progressive, and therefore NOT racist either. I just happen to think Obama isn’t acting like the black guy I thought we elected.”
so the question is, do you nutpick quotes from people on this blog for future misuse and just forgot the actual context, did you just go back to pull that quote and intentionally omit the context, or is satire this obvious still too subtle for you?
Cain
You guys need to stop taking things so seriously. CS has always been trollish, and you should learn to just skip his posts. He’s trying to get a rise out of you all and he’s getting it every single time.
I have no idea why so many of you are so emo over this. You cannot get too emotionally involved in commenting.. honestly. You need to spot trolls and scroll past them. To this day I still haven’t used a pie filter on anybody.
different church-lady
@The Populist:
I still think there’s a distinction between assholes/jackasses and trolls.
I’m still not sure which one I think CS is. (Not that my opinion matters.) I’m leaning asshole — maybe even valuable asshole.
MattR
@lethargytartare: Given that Darnell from LA admitted he was white when he busted Corner Stone, it seems like CS’s reading of that comment was pretty accurate.
Corner Stone
@lethargytartare: I included the links so people could read the threads, if they were interested, or not read them if they were not, and make up their own minds.
Akadad
This is exactly why Obama should get a primary challenge.
FlipYrWhig
@El Cid: Ah, but Anne Laurie doesn’t appear to mean it as a general principle. Instead she appears to mean it as a principle that applies to people who support Obama more vociferously than she would like, and/or who are more concerned with racial issues than she sees fit. Otherwise there wouldn’t be this entire subtext about “PC” and “silencing” when the actual act in question was not a criticism of Obama but a gratuitous remark about race-based enmity.
boss bitch
Wow….I was expecting one of your virtual spankings. Great post.
eemom
@Cain:
but this mess didn’t start because WE took Corner Stone seriously.
It started because AL launched an all out demagogic war against ABL on the bizarre premise of Corner Stone — indisputably the biggest and most gratuitously obnoxious asshole to frequent this blog — being some sort of McCarthyesque victim of censorship.
Please. Kumbaya is all well good, but let’s not obscure the facts in our rush to redemption.
eemom
also too: perhaps we should pause a moment and ponder what the reaction would have been if it had been ABL who launched that front page assault on Garden Lady.
Fucking blog would have melted with the hate.
Jason Bylinowski
I have always liked Anne Laurie’s writing style though I hardly ever read her posts. (We just don’t have much in the way of common interests, and even though I have both a garden and a dog, I don’t much care for blogging about either.) I appreciate how she comments on other people’s threads though, and I can well remember her from before she started posting.
ABL is like a force of nature. As “in your face” as she is, she was bound to grate on some people’s nerves. Additionally, much of the humor of the commentariat here is heavily sardonic and very dry, so it makes a lot of sense to me that her presence here would ruffle some feathers.
Personally, I do not think ABL is a good fit for this blog. She phones it in a LOT of the time with her crossposting, and I just don’t care for that. But I also do not think AL is a good fit for this blog. She was a great commenter that just doesn’t add to the value of this blog as a survey of political current events. I really don’t know why either one of them are here, other than the fact that John is trying to grow his userbase and get more ad revenue. (Which is fine by me.)
Actually, I’ll be honest: my opinion of every new FPer has consistently decreased since coming to BJ. DeBoer, Kain, Levenson, (pretty much everyone with the exception of DougJ), all of these guys are a little less esteemed in my mind since they came here. Sarah Proud and Tall is also an exception because she is a hilarious and totally irrelevant FPer.
Corner Stone, like ABL, is also a force of nature, the other side of the coin. Personally I love the guy – he is basically a natural provocateur and quite a talented insult comic – and it disappoints me that so many people don’t “get” him and add him to this stupid pie filter that everybody uses (I just don’t agree with the idea in general because it muddies the waters of discourse too much). But anyway I understand why most people hate on CS, and of course ABL and CS are a match made in hell.
Not sure what all I meant to get up to with this post, except to summarize the state of things, which is that ABL and CS were star-crossed lovers in another life, and that posting at Balloon Juice crushes all hope for authorial credibility.
cat48
@Prairie Logic:
chopper
@lethargytartare:
dude, it’s corner stone. whatever supports the shtick.
Keith G
@debit:
I disagree. If “racist behavior” is to have status as behavior worthy of important sanction, than there needs to be concrete understandings within a given society.
I would be more likely to agree if the statement were: “A white person(s), alone does not get to decide what qualifies as racist to a POC.”
This is a social issue causing great social harm and must be combated through social action. That said, the victim of racism can not be told how to process a racist assault.
chopper
@Jason Bylinowski:
that’s a comic insult to insult comics everywhere.
The Populist
@different church-lady:
I see your point but Corner Stone can’t even be bothered with backing up ANY of their posts. (I use their since we have no idea if it is a girl or boy).
I have no issue with funny trolls nor do I mind a fiery opinion based on facts, even if not very thought out. What I do hate is reading some troll calling people punks because they ask where the evidence is. CS is a stock and trade concern troll. It’s fine if they are progressive, but they should act like it or pipe down like a NORMAL, DECENT person does.
As for me? I could ultimately care less. I read more than I post and when I post it’s because the issue being brought up has my dander up. Too bad trolls think it’s okay to call names and play games instead of engage us in why we might be right or wrong :(
The Populist
@Jason Bylinowski:
If calling out people is funny then whatever floats your boat. There are con trolls here who are tons more sardonic and funny than CS. They also tend to be fun to debate with.
CS is angry. Angry in a way that if it’s schtick or meant to be funny, I just don’t see it and I can laugh at anything.
Mnemosyne
@Cuppa Cabana:
Okay, I’ll try to translate for you: ABL is saying that AL accused ABL’s “followers” of screaming about racism where AL says there wasn’t any racism. John is now backing ABL up and saying that, yes, he’s been horrified by how much racist shit he’s seen turn up in ABL’s threads.
So the apology would be to those minority commenters whose complaints about racism were blown off as no big deal by AL in her screed. They get an extra apology because they were being accused of paranoia when they were right the whole time.
Get it now?
The Populist
@different church-lady:
BTW, I see people like ABL as valuable asshole types. Ranting, raving BUT sticking to facts mixed with her own opinion. I don’t love all her rants, but being somebody who posts in a rant like style, I can appreciate the emotion.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
So…. between this thread, Anne Laurie’s original post, and DougJ’s intermediate post about Anne Laurie’s post, we’re at about 1200+ comments. Can we hit 1,500? Can we somehow turn this into a fund-raiser for Second Harvest or Red Cross disaster relief? Or to really piss off some of the parties involved, Obama-Biden ’12?
LanceThruster
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Now just a gosh darn moment. Gilbert would be funny reading names out of a phone book (seriously).
My $.02
Persia
@MattR: Except that no one said anything about race until CS busted out the stupidity.
Corner Stone
@The Populist: Listen. This is a healing thread. Do you think maybe together we could put aside your petty grievances, agree that nationwide D voter turnout in 2010 was at historical norms, and just be happy, today, in this space?
Samara Morgan
@Corner Stone: hai CS.
as a fellow timed-outer, welcome back.
:)
FlipYrWhig
@Jason Bylinowski: There seems to be a mass of people who post here who believe that A Big Problem On The Blog is that ABL posts draw out too much praise from commenters, and that said praise is unwarranted. I guess I haven’t observed that in action. I have observed plenty of blatant dickishness in action, and that, IMHO, is much more of A Big Problem On The Blog.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Since one of the defining characteristics of B-Jers is that we love to donate, I actually think this is a good idea. I would vote for Second Harvest as a “Hands Across Balloon-Juice” type of gesture.
Elie
@Cain:
I agree.
I have never used the “pie filter”
Don’t need to. Ignore, move on, skip, etc.
Samara Morgan
@Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .: LOL
i was catholic, not WEC.
so innaccurate.
MattR
@Persia: How is that remotely relevant to the point lethargytartare made – which was that Corner Stone incorrectly thought Darnell was white based on a perceived misreading of a previous comment where Darnell said he was white?
Samara Morgan
@Jason Bylinowski: i liek ABL because she’s fearless.
Samara Morgan
@Corner Stone: was this your first, CS?
did ABL bust your timeout cherry?
its not so bad.
:)
Elie
@Akadad:
And its good to know that we allow all kinds of stupid to comment here free of charge.
Keith G
@Samara Morgan: Early dismissal?
Elie
@Samara Morgan:
“time out cherry”
lol!
him has sad and is depressed the “morning after”.
don worry CS, you rarely get pregnant after the first time..something about the anxiety and pain…
Elie
@FlipYrWhig:
Here Here to that…!
Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .
Christ, can’t you people keep your histories straight: DougJ machobanhammered CS for going after a (no longer) regular very early in his commenting career.
Keith G
@Elie: Free advice from (un)Planned Parenthood? Jeeesh.
Samara Morgan
@Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .: dish!
i wasnt here then.
:)
Samara Morgan
im so disappointed in your twitterstream JC.
i thot there’d be some rageraving.
Samara Morgan
i jus’ wanna make you happy.
A ship to be sunk, life is not a race,
When I’m not happy I’m in disgrace
So I spend time with pissing on you oh
You’re a lover of the wild and a joker of the heart,
But are you mine?
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
I think that sums up the balloonbagger “philosophy” nicely – first and foremost, put party before country. Also too, if you merely say the words, they will be true.
.
.
Cain
@Akadad:
Well played, sir. Well played.
cain
Margarita
This is fair enough, but at some point one could quietly thank her for her contributions and wish her luck in her future endeavors. I have no problem scrolling past her posts. There’s a place for Garfield and Family Circus in the funny papers too, even if they’re not my cup of tea. But the thing is, Anne doesn’t extend this same courtesy to others. She actively detracts from the quality of this site and doesn’t seem to give a care. Just one person’s opinion.
LT
What does “pied” mean in John’s post? saw some other people mention something about a filter – same thing? And can some explain how it works?
Mary
Never Mind.
LT
Good gads…
licensed to kill time
@LT: You install cleek’s pie filter, highlight the name of the person you wish to pie, click the ‘add selected’ button, and it replaces their comments with witty observations about pie!
Here’s a link: cleek’s pie filter
p.s. easily reversible if you just HAVE to see what they are sayin’
Cassidy
So, AL doesn’t have a problem going into one comments section to shit on another FPer, but can’t be bothered to come in this one say anything?
Be a lot easier if she wasn’t such a bigot.
LT
@licensed to kill time: Oh that’s hilarious. Thank you much.
licensed to kill time
@LT: It does wonders for your blood pressure :)
Darling! Gimme nyms with pie, round beautiful pie!
Shining, gleaming, Steaming, flaxen, waxen…
LT
@Cassidy:
You’ve all just witnessed the birth of the common “internet thread.” They are most often born this way, in an ill-informed comment making or implying a statement of fact where no fact is supported, mixed in a frothy sauce of sneering self-satisfaction, and leading to countless factless followups.
So a common thread is born’d unto the world.
P.S. Did it actually not occur to you that you’re stupid? And that maybe AL is working, or taking care of a sick canary? Anything?
bystander
Matt Stoller, formerly of Open Left and currently at the Roosevelt Institute, recently published at Salon a piece entitled What Democrats can do about Obama. It’s not difficult to imagine the results if that piece had been published here. What seemed salient to me about Stoller’s argument is his characterization of the Democratic Party as inflexible. I’d go one step further and argue that the Democrats and the Democratic Party have become brittle. And, like many brittle things, they are prone to shatter.
I frequently find evidence for that thought in these threads; most notably, ABL’s. There’s a canary in the coal mine feel to them. And, contrary to what many here might argue, it’s not, for example, that “grifter” Jane Hamsher, or the “long winded-ness” of Glenn Greenwald, or the “inappropriateness” of Anne Laurie, or the “righteousness” of ABL, which reveals this brittle condition to me, it’s the response of many/most here that does. That ironclad death grip folks have on their need to defend Obama, or Obama-promoters, against all comers, and squash all dissenting voices, is all the empirical evidence anyone might need.
Republican lunacies aren’t the only things that need defeat. The Democratic Party’s inclination to promote and support Republican lunacies needs defeat as well. And, the expression, We have Republicans to beat. pretty much just papers over that which ought to be at the center of both Democratic and democratic discourse. I suppose one could argue that it fits for the near 24/7 Balloon Juice Pep Rally. Someone really should produce a Balloon Juice fight song, set it to music, and get it up on youtube. Then y’all could simply rickroll the dissenters. Efficiency; it’s what’s for a good neo-liberal’s dinner.
Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .
‘tako-chin: No.
Try google if you care that much.
The Populist
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
LOL, I get it. A bad attempt at snark?
The Populist
@Corner Stone:
FACT: Dem voter turnout WAS at a very low period genius, but that is fine if you want to keep pretending you are right. Facts are by my side since you fail to show me proof where my point is wrong.
Nice try, so I give you that. I have no hard feelings towards you. As far as I am concerned, trolls are like rats. They don’t mean to eat my food, dig holes in my ceilings and walls, but they are still pests regardless.
I can’t hate the poor thing for doing what nature programmed it to do. Shit, I may have them killed but I don’t like it very much.
Anyway, carry on. I am pro free speech, realize that and we get along in the end.
The Populist
@Akadad:
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Force a progressive on him as VP.
Keith G
@Cassidy: I really hope that you are mot a parody troll or a sock puppet. because when I want to reference the kidney crunching silliness that overtook this weekend, I want to use that comment (231) as exhibit A.
salacious crumb
@ABL: ANNE LAURIE IS RACIST!! you are right!! anyone who criticizes Obama or any black person is a racist. I mean after all Obama has the right to wage war with any country and we should come up with new ways to justify it. God forbid if Republicans try to do the same thing. and naturally an uncle fucker like myself should be banned from the comments cuz Im what?!! u guess right! racist!!
General Stuck
@bystander:
What a load of hooey
Jay
@bystander:
“What seemed salient to me about Stoller’s argument is his characterization of the Democratic Party as inflexible.”
Stoller’s main answer to that inflexibility? Primary Obama with (among others) 71 year old Tom Harkin. Love the guy. Love his efforts to make all of America more accessible to every citizen, but he ran for President in 19-freaking-92. Dude’s in the Senate to stay.
I’m sure Doug Wilder, Gary Hart, Bruce Babbitt, and John Glenn could all be talked into running, too.
Not feeling Matt Stoller. Not at all.
CaliCat
Where is Mike Kay (Awesome Democrat)?
Elie
@bystander:
Great idea!
I am sure that there are any number of “better” Democrats that could get elected …we just kick that old black boi out (just too far over his head — no REAL accomplishments either)
Oh gawd, I wish that I had nerve like yours…
Like they say: “He who knows little soon tells it”
ABL
@Mnemosyne: thank you. couldn’t have said it better myself.
Elie
@salacious crumb:
Are you an Uncle Fucker?
I heard you were a bug fucker and that you liked it on top so you could feel their antenna.
CaliCat
@salacious crumb: Are you a dumbass troll or just a dumbass? Either way, I’m sick of dumbasses like you.
Elie
Interesting show on Natl Geographic Wild the other day. They were doing an investigation on the cause of death on a bunch of alligators and in the process had to do autopsy on alligator brains. Would you believe that such a big, vicious reptile has a brain the size of a walnut — smaller than one of its eyes? And that these critters had survived successfully for many thousands of years with virtually no brain (at least one with, you know, cognitive intelligence). Remarkably, and what has been demonstrated here on this blog thread by way too many, you don’t need much brain tissue to survive. And replication of no brain also appears not to be a problem for some of you.
FlipYrWhig
@bystander: There were many Stoller-related threads here. Perhaps you could go consult those.
Elie
@The Populist:
Yes, lets “FORCE” a VP selection on him.
Great idea!
The stoopid — it burns!
Elie
@Keith G:
Dasright!
gotta help where I can
CaliCat
@bystander:
Okay, this is just laughable.
Mackenna
I’m talking pure unadulterated filth by commenters named “SUBHUMAN,”
It’s good to know the subhumans among us at least give themselves appropriate nicknames. I would expect the worst from such people.
slightly-peeved
For the last time, people, neither side is having their views suppressed here. Me telling you that you have no freaking idea how the law you’re complaining about actually works is no more suppression of your views than you telling me to stop sucking Obama’s big throbbing healthcare package. If your comment showed up, and you’re not banned, your soapbox is just as big as anyone else’s, so using it to tell people to Come See The Violence Inherent In The System is a bit of a waste.
lethargytartare
@MattR:
Because Darnell didn’t say he was white in the previous post – he was satirically presenting what a “white progressive” Obama critic would say when challenged, as should have been clear from the 1st sentence, which CS omitted for some reason.
The actual post from Darnell in no way indicates his ethnicity – CS’s response seems to be “I linked to the post, so it’s okay that I left out the context in order to fabricate prior knowledge of Darnell’s ethnicity”
which I think is kinda toolish, but YMMV
Ronbo
Slightly-peeved: Only those with their post deleted (have their views suppressed). It happens daily. Try saying something truthful about President Obama. like that he is a trojan-horse Republican (Extended Bush tax cuts, Extend war 1, war 2, started war 3, began extensive use of drones, targets Americans for execution without trial, expanded torture by sending detainees to torture sites, does not prosecute war criminals, prosecutes whistleblowers, etc….)
President Obama is no Democrat. He is clearly pushing Republican legislation.
lethargytartare
@Ronbo:
wow are you dim
Samara Morgan
@Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .: i dont.
im just an anti-capitalist creative destruction american muslim grrl.
i luff chaos, and its great to see the frontpagers slagging each other.
TuiMel
@FlipYrWhig:
I am in no way condoning CS and how he comports himself on this blog. And, I admit I am not enough of a regular to have “figured out” other commenters to the extent that some seem able (willing) to do. However, I see many who engage, either regularly or intermittently or selectively to a blog nemesis or when they are tipsy, in the behavior described above. One thing is certain, it does not add anything to the conversation.
Lysana
Thank you for this, John. I will join the folks who ignore Anne Laurie, as she has seen fit to refuse to address this with her own apology. I do not take well to being insulted and belittled in the fashion she employed. But your apology is sufficient for me to not feel the need to agitate for a response on this point any further.
LongHairedWeirdo
John, thanks for pointing this out. There are a lot of people who talk about how we must live in a post-racial society, we just elected a black man President, blah blah blah.
And then I remember that *in my lifetime* black men were picked to have syphilis go untreated. In my lifetime, a black man could be shot and killed over a stupid property dispute, and a grand jury would refuse to indict, in spite of witnesses. And I just ask how I would feel if I black, even if I’d grown up sheltered enough to rarely experience overt racism on my own.
I’ll tell you one thing: every time someone white tried to talk about “post-racial” I’d feel that arm twitch that says “someone needs a good smack upside the head”. Because “in my lifetime” is a fairly long time… but not *that* long. (Okay: 45 next week. Due to the day, I don’t celebrate it much.)
Because it’s not over just because the people in charge wish it would be over. And, as you’re reminding us, even the deep, hateful ugliness isn’t over yet.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@lethargytartare:
If Ronbo was a light bulb he wouldn’t be able to light up the interior of a gnat’s ass.
Yui Ricdeau
I’ve been lurking at JC’s blog for years, and I have never seen such vitriol here as I’m seeing now. For whatever reason, it’s getting worse all the time. Perhaps this blog is not the place for a substantive discussion (hell, I enjoy Cole’s pet posts more than any others), but it appears to this lurker that Balloon Juice has deteriorated. Name-calling, group-think, intolerance, narrow-mindedness – I find it shocking. Either it didn’t used to be this way or I was living in la-la land.
Commenters in this thread have called Anne Laurie a bigot and strongly implied she’s racist. Are you fucking kidding me? Others are called “dumbasses” or worse.
Humorous jibes are one thing – but I get the strong impression that many of these comments are deadly serious. Like I said, I find it shocking.
TuiMel
@The Populist:
Maybe he should change his handle to A Corner Stone.
eemom
@No one of importance:
seems she’s modeling herself after Jane Hamsher.
And I never thought I’d say this, but shit, even Hamsher deserves better than this lame ass copycat.
eemom
@Yui Ricdeau:
you’d better get back in your bubble before a stray germ gets you.
TrishB
@Yui Ricdeau: So you’re saying you came here for the waters?
El Cid
@FlipYrWhig: Sure, but my interest was the point in general, and not Anne Laurie, and not exclusively that context. My emphasis is obviously not, and would not be, on the state of Anne Laurie.
Yui Ricdeau
@TrishB: I was misinformed.
AxelFoley
@Linda Featheringill:
And what language is that, Caucasianese?
John didn’t say anything different than ABL about the racist shit that is flung her way. It’s just that more folks took his word for it over ABL’s.
WTF? Seriously, WTF?
Trakker
How can you have a political blog in 2011 and not expect anger to boil over from time to time, especially a blog that attracts smart people who can see clearly what the Republicans are doing to this country and see no way to stop it?
It’s not going to get any better any time soon. I have kids and grandkids who are going to be severely affected by this class war, a war we’re clearly losing. Sometimes my anger just boils over and my comments reflect my frustration.
I have a lot of admiration for ABL. My wife is African American and I see what she has had to endure. Few whites can truly appreciate what African American writers/bloggers have to put up with. Just take a look at the comment section at WaPost anytime Eugene Robinson writes a column, or there’s an article about black kids getting into trouble, for example. It’s fucking depressing, and only so much of it can roll off your back before you want to lash out, strike back. I wish there were more ABLs! I would love to see 10,000 ABLs confronting Breitbart every day of his miserable life.
poco
@Trakker: Thank you!
cxs
@eemom: It’s probably a character flaw that this is why I love you so much.
ABL
@Elie: That may be the most creative insult I’ve ever heard. I’m storing it for later use!
John Cole
@Ronbo: Yes. Just like this comment was deleted.
NO ONE DELETES COMMENTS. Sometimes people get time-outs, but we don’t delete comments. Maybe you used a word that got you in the spam filter, but our policy is unless you say something horrifyingly sexist, racist, homophobic, etc. is to not delete comments. Ever!
LongHairedWeirdo
@Linda Featheringill:
Absorb punishment? What, does she make you stand in the corner? Or does she just *say stuff* that makes you uncomfortable?
Having to listen to stuff that makes you uncomfortable is not punishment.
Look: whatever age you are today, you were born into a world where blacks in the US have, in living memory, been treated abysmally. That doesn’t mean every black person was treated abysmally, and it doesn’t mean you had any control over it, but it’s still the truth.
Black people have a darn good reason not to trust that they will be treated fairly. It wouldn’t matter if the anti-racism fairy waved a magic wand and made racism disappear, there would still be people who were treated abysmally or whose parents were, and who still have extremely good reason not to trust society.
If you think that’s okay, and its all the fault of black folks, and not the people who caused them grief, well, congratulations; you’re applauding injustice.
On the other hand, if you believe in justice, you have to work for it. And the first part of that is seeing injustice.
That’s not “absorbing punishment” unless you think injustice should be swept under the rug.
Corey
@Elie:
Late to this, but yes, this is fair, and, in general, I think it’s good advice.
On the other hand, I’ve been called a racist by ABL’s camp followers (a fairly accurate description, one of the only well-reasoned things in Anne Laurie’s awful post) for criticizing the crazy formatting of her posts, for criticizing the president’s record on human rights, among other things. So.
ABL’s also been pretty clear that she’s willing to go to fairly absurd lengths to characterize someone as racist, like the time she called Jane Hamsher a racist because…wait for it…a diarist on her site ran some anti-Obama ads on buses in white DC neighborhoods. She attacks Glenn Greenwald for living in Brazil, even though she knows damn well why he lives there.
I mean, at a certain point, individuals lose credibility.
No one of importance
@John Cole:
That is absolutely not true and you know it. I’m pissed off that even with clear evidence that AL was doing this (which I *sent* to you!), that you are lying to the people here. I don’t know if it’s happening elsewhere, but to say ‘NO ONE’ is doing it, is a lie. Anne Laurie deleted at least 4 published comments (2 of mine), put me on moderation, and deleted all my pending comments. I have zero confidence she won’t do that again.
Shame on you, Cole. Protecting your women shouldn’t extend to pretending they don’t fuck up.
No one of importance
@Corey:
So people who like, read or support ABL or her views are…prostitutes. Lovely.
What do you call the people who read this blog multiple times a day? Do you think of them as whores too?
You know, people are *always* jumping on her about this and the fault for the formatting is in *COLE’s style sheet*. The styling for the H4 tag is identical to the link styling. ABL is correctly using header tags in her posts, and they appear like links because *COLE’s coder* has set it that way.
But it’s just easier to blame that dumb negress than to apply the tiniest amount of thought to the matter, isn’t it?
Jesus, some people make me sick.
They sure do. You just did.
Corey
No, the posts on her own blog are just as bad.
You really can’t resist, can you?