OzoneGate

Matt Osborne offers a different take:

First of all, let’s stop with the stupid sports metaphors. Really. If you need an analogy, smog regulations are a low card in a high stakes game, and Lisa Jackson is the queen of hearts when Obama needs spades. If you insist on baseball, smog reduction is a run, and Ray LaHood is Obama’s designated hitter. But really, let’s kill the sports metaphors.
One way to lower the amount of smog in American cities comes with through thick binders of all-powerful EPA regulations. Another way involves transportation spending priorities and vehicle emissions standards — policies — that also form a thick set of binders. Either way involves policy in binders. Either way reduces pollution.

Friday’s progressive freakout over nixed EPA smog rules is not really about fighting smog, but the myopia of issue focus in the blogosphere and the inflated currency of online outrage. Transportation is a wonky subject that often flies below the radar. It is not sexy or cute. Much of its advocacy is local. But federal transportation policy is also crucial in reducing smog levels as well as achieving other progressive ends.
The ingredients of smog come from tailpipes. The way to reduce the impact of modern civilization on the environment is to make those tailpipes better and cleaner. To accomplish that, the president has leveraged his opportunity to force change on the auto industry.
Big Auto has successfully fought higher mileage standards tooth-and-nail for decades. But industry lobbyists recently caved in to the administration — for the second time. Automakers must raise their fleets to a genuine average of 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025. That is not nothing. What was that about bad negotiating and selling out?

Roland Hwang at the National Resources Defense Council calls this “the single biggest step the president can take” to lower American carbon emissions. It will also reduce the tailpipe pollutants that form smog because less fuel will be burning to keep Americans on the roads and rails and pavement we can build.

Meanwhile, the number of zero-emission electrified vehicles on American roads will go up 4,500 percent in the next six years. That’s nearly one million cars that won’t create any smog at all, thanks again to administration policy. It’s a start on the greener America we need.

To be sure, there is room for other policy changes to effect emissions reductions. The American semi truck fleet is woefully inefficient, for example, getting about six gallons to the mile. A mere ten percent increase in efficiency would save as much oil as eight Deepwater Horizon disasters — a point that brings us to another set of progressive freakouts over energy and pollution.
Obama is a transportation progressive. Why should the White House choose to fight costly battles over EPA regulations, tar sands pipelines, or offshore drilling when they can win policy battles that reduce consumption? This is not eleventy-dimensional chess. It is not apologetics. It is solid policy.

(read the rest, including internal links)

272 replies
  1. 1
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    I’m sure that some emo prog/firebagger/troll will soon be in to quickly dispel the myth that Obama did something good here.

  2. 2
    Corner Stone says:

    Oh thank God you’re here ABL. You too Odious. Nice try.

  3. 3
    AA+ Bonds says:

    NRDC are centrists, yes, this is factually true. I’m not sure the use of a story informing people of this.

  4. 4
    MikeJ says:

    Even the liberal DougJ said he sold us out. Why should I believe the administration when I have DougJ to tell me teh TRUTH?

  5. 5
    efgoldman says:

    Aaarrrggghhh!
    Commmmonnn Seeeensse!
    We’re meelllltinnnggg….

  6. 6
    AA+ Bonds says:

    I give him credit for doing Thing A. Thing B is also quite important to do

  7. 7
    chrismealy says:

    Not buying it. Smog is pollution you can see. This is an easy one for Obama to demagogue (asthma, American Lung Association, people dying), but Obama doesn’t do that, so cave is the only option.

  8. 8
    AA+ Bonds says:

    Here’s something every Democrat should watch:

    The Wall Street Journal Editorial Report on Trumka and the Democrats

    You want to worry about the campaign? Watch this now, know the future.

  9. 9
    jcgrim says:

    Lisa Jackson, not Shirley Jackson.

  10. 10
    El Cid says:

    @jcgrim: Ms. Jackson if you’re nasty.

  11. 11
    tomjones says:

    @AA+ Bonds: If Labor thinks they’ll do better with a Republican president, then they deserve the shit they will be getting from 2012 – 2016.

  12. 12
    Corner Stone says:

    Sarah P&T!!
    ***draws blood pentagram on the screen***

  13. 13
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @tomjones:

    If that’s the message you got out of this video, then you are fucked as a person.

    Hell, if this works on other people as well as it did on you, this country is fucked in 2012.

  14. 14
    Corner Stone says:

    @El Cid: God dammit. Classic.

  15. 15
    RossInDetroit says:

    I’ll tell you one positive outcome of the so called capitulation on smog. A local ancient, inefficient nasty coal fired municipal power plant can now be replaced with the clean, efficient modern NG plant that’s been planned. The project was stalled because nobody could tell if the proposed new plant would meet federal regs.
    I have this firsthand from a local air quality analyst.

  16. 16
    jwb says:

    @Corner Stone: Admit it: you’re just upset ABL didn’t go full metal all-caps anywhere but the tag.

  17. 17
    Jade Jordan says:

    Lets face it OBOT (self declared) if Obama declared murder and pediphilia legal you would find a way to make them sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

    Obama care about Obama being re-elected. I have never regretted any vote like I have my vote for Obama.

  18. 18
    joeshabadoo says:

    Will do xxxx in over ten years doesn’t get me excited or make me happy.

    That is so much time for other people to come in and change it or throw some kind of loophole into the mix. Its a good thing and at least he’s trying to do something but congress already tried to repeal Obama’s “Job Killing” health care bill while he is still president. Something like this is just waiting for the right asshole to get back into power and throw it away and there is more than enought time for that.

  19. 19
    CT Voter says:

    There’s another way to look at the latest “cave/capitulation by” the limp dick in chief?

    How DARE you offer an alternative opinion?

  20. 20
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    I think you mean a local air quality anecdote.

  21. 21
    matthewegsmith says:

    It’s a fair point to say that the Obama Administration may be accomplishing progressive goals under the radar, and I’m genuinely grateful to be educated about their work on raising mileage standards. But I still don’t think this lets Obama off the hook completely.

    Having watched the Republicans completely dictate the terms of the debt ceiling debate, I remember wondering what their jobs program would look like now that they had effectively taken any spending off the table. Pretty much that very night I saw some Boehner-Cantor type on the news saying that the next step was deregulation, because apparently the private sector would be creating all kinds of new jobs if only they weren’t so worried about regulations. I said to my wife “just watch, that’s all we’re going to here about now is regulatory uncertainty.”

    Cut to Friday. The Administration announces that it’s cutting the EPA standards. Why?

    “I have continued to underscore the importance of reducing regulatory burdens and regulatory uncertainty, particularly as our economy continues to recover,” Obama said in a statement announcing the order.

    It’s that complete adoption of moronic right-wing talking points that kills me the most!

  22. 22
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Corner Stone: @El Cid:

    Heh. My grandmother’s obituary actually began: “Helen Cannon — Mrs. Cannon to her friends — died (date) (location).”

    We all laughed really hard, because it was so her.

  23. 23
    aisce says:

    in what way is this a justification? it’s an evasion.

    what am i missing? he completely runs away from any issue of epa regulations by saying they’re a lesser environmental measure than reducing fossil fuel consumption. which the administration has excelled at attacking.

    which is true. and also irrelevant to the question of the specifics of the moment.

    at no point were options a an b set against each other. there was no choice between them. a was successful, b wasn’t, but a did not preclude b.

    if we follow osborne to his logical conclusion, the epa might as well be shut down. after all, we’re addressing gasoline consumption! what else could reasonably expected to be done?

  24. 24
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @matthewegsmith:

    It’s extremely depressing to hear the President talking like this, but then again, he did when he was running for President. They’re Axelrod’s talking points as much as the Republicans’. And thus, I’d assume, Obama’s actual opinion as part of the centrist Democratic elite.

  25. 25
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    You say murder and pedophilia like those are bad things.

  26. 26
    gnomedad says:

    Just a note of thanks to offset some of the shit you’re gonna get for posting this.

  27. 27
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @aisce:

    you’re right. See comment #6

  28. 28
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    Lets face it OBOT (self declared) if Obama declared murder and pediphilia legal you would find a way to make them sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

    Well, ABL is on record saying if she found President Obama balls deep in a goat it wouldn’t change her support of him.
    So, I guess she is objectively pro-goat fucking.

  29. 29
    RossInDetroit says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    I think you mean a local air quality anecdote.

    No, I mean an Air Quality Analyst, which is what I wrote. A person who I know well who is employed to analyze air quality professionally full time and knows the situation.

  30. 30
    Linnaeus says:

    @tomjones:

    If Labor thinks they’ll do better with a Republican president, then they deserve the shit they will be getting from 2012 – 2016.

    I sincerely doubt Labor’s leadership thinks it will do better with a Republican president. They’re doing what constituency groups do: trying to advocate for their constituency.

  31. 31
    LT says:

    I haven’t read this yet, but I’m putting ten bucks on ABL finally fond way to blame this one on EMOPROGS!

    Even better: It’s not even bad! it’s AWESOMESMOG! And EMOPROGS are just too addicted to emo to embrace the AWESOMESMOG!

  32. 32
    Corner Stone says:

    @jwb: No, I’m upset because I needs me some Sarah P&T to bigfoot this thread.

  33. 33
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    And yet I’m pretty sure you understood what I wrote. Kisses!

  34. 34
    Akadad says:

    Has anyone ever seen the ozone layer? People will believe anything.

  35. 35
    mcd410x says:

    I don’t know who Matt Osborne is or what his qualifications on this issue are, but here’s an article about emissions in the Tampa area:

    Ironically, the McKay Bay Waste-to-Energy facility – which has lowered methane levels by reducing the amount of trash going into landfills – is also one of the largest producers of greenhouse gases, accounting for about 35 percent of Tampa’s emissions in 2009, according to the report.

    35 percent. From one facility. That is awesome.

  36. 36
    RossInDetroit says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    And yet I’m pretty sure you understood what I wrote. Kisses!

    I know what I’m talking about. You don’t.

    Go fuck yourself, you smug prick.

  37. 37
    Matt Osborne says:

    *LISA* Jackson. I fixed it this morning at my place, but the error’s out there.

    I can only blame the fact that I was reading Flannery O’Connor this weekend & reflecting on Southern lit. I don’t even normally post on Sundays, but this one had to get out there.

  38. 38
    mcd410x says:

    Also: “Here a cave, there a cave, everywhere a cave cave …” Sing it with me!

    Too.

  39. 39
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @Linnaeus:

    The point of posting the video is that it is a window into 2012 strategies. The Journal editorial board is the high level idea-cooker – you can tell by how they bicker over whether or not we’re in a double-dip recession, and by how one of them compares the Tea Party to Trumka because of the debt ceiling crisis. These are Big Thinkers at Work.

    The idea is that Republicans will get angrier, while Democrats will respond like tomjones.

  40. 40
    MikeJ says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    I have never regretted any vote like I have my vote for Obama.

    McCain would have been better?

    “I wish I hadn’t voted for him, but I wish he had still won so I could bitch about it” isn’t a grown up answer. Your choices are decent guy or batshit insane.

  41. 41
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    Well, I’ve worked more on the renewable energy/energy efficiency side in individual homes than transportation and air quality, it’s true. But while it is nice that this decision moved your friend’s project along, that’s not how to best judge national policy.

  42. 42
    TooManyJens says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    I have never regretted any vote like I have my vote for Obama.

    Your belief that John McCain, backed up by Sarah Palin, would have been better is duly noted.

  43. 43
    Corner Stone says:

    @Matt Osborne: So, are you embarrassed to have your work be used by a hack like ABL to prove something that isn’t factually accurate?
    Or are you ok with that?

  44. 44
    jwb says:

    @Corner Stone: You complain about DougJ having lost it and can’t see that Sarah P&T has written herself out?

  45. 45
    RossInDetroit says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    It’s a huge, old coal fired power plant that can now be replaced with a clean and efficient one. That might not be your personal area of interest, but that doesn’t make it an irrelevant sidelight.

    And do not play cute with me.

  46. 46
    Hal says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    Lets face it OBOT (self declared) if Obama declared murder and pediphilia legal you would find a way to make them sound like the best thing since sliced bread.

    Likewise, if Obama in his spare time found a cure for cancer, you would be first in line to declare it a capitulation to the health insurance companies trying to cut their costs.

  47. 47
    aisce says:

    the obama administration is the greenest, most environmentally progressive and conscientious there’s ever been. not just on an absolute scale (where every president, or at least, every democratic president should theoretically be more environmental than his predecessor), but even on a relative judgment as to the size of the discrepancy between this administration and any that came before.

    what’s to be gained by being pissy little bitches over the occasional deviation from that broader trend? especially when it’s really congress’ fault?

  48. 48
    Corner Stone says:

    @jwb: You’re flailing now.

  49. 49
    LT says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    A local ancient, inefficient nasty coal fired municipal power plant can now be replaced with the clean, efficient modern NG plant that’s been planned.

    THIS is exactly the kind of cortex-crushing fuckery comes from posts like this.

  50. 50
    efgoldman says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    I have never regretted any vote like I have my vote for Obama.

    Sorry, you are delusional.
    What the fnck, exactly, do you think McCain would have done better for the country?
    And, FSM forbid, what if the strain had been too much for him and Sarah became prez?
    There are people in FL who claim not to regret hanging a chad for Nader, too.
    Holy snit, but you are as detached from reality as any of the GOBP TeaTards.
    [And that’s the first time, in the several years I’ve been here, that I have flamed another commenter personally.]

  51. 51

    Okay, I’ll wade in. I’ve had a rich, full life. :-)

    1. ABL can support Obama if she wants to. She actually doesn’t have to defend that support if she doesn’t want to.
    [Love has reasons that Reason knows not of.]

    2. I’m still confused about the science involved in the now-infamous EPA regulations. At first, I was confused because I had found no explanation. Then I was confused because I found too many and there was too little agreement among them.

    3. However, even if the science does not support Obama’s suspension/postponement of these particular regulations, it’s not like he was committing a crime against humanity. I mean, it’s not like he acted like Charlie Manson or something. Chill.

    4. I always knew that Obama was more conservative than I am. If you want to argue that he is more conservative than I imagined, well maybe we could have that discussion. But he never promised to be the Great Liberal Hope. I’ve disagreed with the man on occasion but I’ve never felt that Obama the candidate lied to us.

  52. 52
    RossInDetroit says:

    @LT:

    It’s the upper Midwest. We have to burn stuff to make power. These are facts. I wish we didn’t burn stuff. But when we have the choice we burn cleaner stuff rather than dirty stuff. The New England states downwind have been bitching about this for a generation.

  53. 53
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    It’s an anecdote. That’s all I’m saying. It’s not something by which this policy decision can be judged.

  54. 54
    Yutsano says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    I have never regretted any vote like I have my vote for Obama.

    That’s fine. You’ll have ample opportunity to vote for
    President Perry here soon enough.

  55. 55
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @aisce:

    Come on, that’s just gauche, pick a persona

  56. 56
    LT says:

    @RossInDetroit: I understand the realities. But you don’t have to – and shouldn’t – call it “clean.”

  57. 57
    RossInDetroit says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    Everything’s an anecdote. A power plant that runs 24 X 365 to power a state capital is worth a whole lot of SUVs, don’t you think? Considerably more substantial than most anecdotes.

  58. 58
    RossInDetroit says:

    @LT:

    Of course it’s not clean. But it’s an order of magnitude cleaner than what it’s replacing and a lot of people think that’s worth doing, since there has to be a power plant.

    Do you disagree?

  59. 59
    efgoldman says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    If you want to argue that he is more conservative than I imagined, well maybe we could have that discussion. But he never promised to be the Great Liberal Hope. I’ve disagreed with the man on occasion…

    Yes, this, exactly. Thanks for being the voice of reason.

    @RossInDetroit:

    We have to burn stuff to make power.

    Wait. What? No you don’t. Just return to the Elysian Fields of legend, where you can harness the unicorns to generators, or something…

  60. 60
    Akadad says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    Those people in New England are a bunch of Liberal elitists.

    Real Americans know that a little pollution never hurt anyone.

  61. 61
    efgoldman says:

    @Akadad:

    Those people in New England are a bunch of Liberal elitists.

    Yes, yes we are. And always have been.
    On the other hand, we have a lot to be elitist about.

  62. 62
    LT says:

    @RossInDetroit: You fucking called it clean, Ross. You can take it back now but don’t fucking blame me for calling that out.

  63. 63
    aisce says:

    @ aa+ bonds

    there is no “persona.”

    did i not just say that a doesn’t preclude b? so, what, you only follow that logic when it suits you?

    the only difference between me and abl and osborne is i don’t have a problem saying that ditching epa recommendations for political reasons is unfortunate. but hardly gamebreaking.

  64. 64
    Jade Jordan says:

    To all those who think that McCain was the only other option on the ballot in 2008 educate yourself.

    I am an independent who generally votes for an alternate party other than Dem or Repub.

    I vote for the person who best reflects my values not the flashy candidate who lies the best. In my gut I knew Obama was pandering, however, I had no idea he would be a total louse.

  65. 65
    RossInDetroit says:

    @LT:

    Fine. You win. In absolute terms the power plant does not meet the strict definition of clean.
    In power plant terms it does, however.
    Happy?

  66. 66
    Dee Loralei says:

    Damn, Lee Roy Selmon died. Boomer Sooner.

  67. 67
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    Fortunately, the EPA and its job-crushing agenda of regulation for its own sake must be cleared like brush to advance President Obama’s re-election, which will provide all the REAL sweet clean air you need to breathe for a healthy life.
    .
    .

  68. 68
    RossInDetroit says:

    @LT:

    Actually I do blame you for calling that out. It’s a petty argument. Clearly the term clean means something different when applied to, say the contents of a dishwasher than it does when applied to a power plant. Context.

  69. 69
    LT says:

    @RossInDetroit: Are you really going to get pissy about this? Your post looked like it was written by a Peabody rep. I was just making sure…

    And what are you talkinjg about? “CLean coal” are the words the coal industry uses. It is not wrong to point out that it’s not *clean*. The word actually has a fucking meaning.

  70. 70
    Dee Loralei says:

    Looks like the E’ers game was called for WVU. John must be happy

  71. 71
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    IOW, you normally waste your presidential vote voting third-party every four years and now you feel that you threw your vote away when you voted for Obama in the last election. Right?

    Now that is funny!

  72. 72
    Akadad says:

    @efgoldman:

    Just because the quality of life is better in Liberal New England, it doesn’t mean your policies work. It really means that you got lucky.

  73. 73
    TooManyJens says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    I am an independent who generally votes for an alternate party other than Dem or Repub.

    And that’s your choice, but as our electoral system is currently constituted it makes you irrelevant.

    I vote for the person who best reflects my values not the flashy candidate who lies the best.

    I used to do that. Then I realized that it’s not about me, it’s about what actually happens in the world. And what would have actually happened in the world if Obama had not won — and please don’t tell me that you think there was a realistic chance that it would have been anything but a McCain/Palin victory — was intolerable. Not so much for me; we’re white and well enough off that we would have been OK. But what would happen to people without those privileges was intolerable.

    Even if we didn’t get single-payer, the changes made in the health care system will make a real difference in the lives of people who can’t afford insurance now, or who have pre-existing conditions, or who can’t get thrown off their policies anymore. Electing Obama made those people’s lives better. It made the lives of the people who became/stayed employed as the result of the stimulus better. I can’t look one of those people in the eye and tell them that because Obama’s not perfect, we should have just left them to the GOP’s tender mercies.

  74. 74
    efgoldman says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Now that is funny useless and pathetic!

    FTFY

    ETA: And what too many jens said, also too.

  75. 75
    RossInDetroit says:

    @LT:

    I’m no friend of the power companies, though I did work for one for a few years.
    Note that I said this was a municipal plant and not a commercial one. Owned by the city and operated for the citizens, not for profit. You’re assuming a commercial context where I explicitly stated otherwise.
    We’re glad they can replace a century old coal plant with a modern, cleaner one. That can happen now that the EPA regs that were making the project impractical won’t be enforced. This is one good outcome from what people are calling an environmental failure.
    I, too want the environment to be cleaner. But it’s not entirely a zero sum game.

  76. 76
    Corner Stone says:

    @LT: Ouch. Fucking ouch.

  77. 77
    RossInDetroit says:

    @LT:

    I said a dirty coal plant was being replaced by a NG plant.

    I never said ‘clean coal’

    Can/do you read?

  78. 78
    Bruce S says:

    Actually if you’re going to quote the NRDC, give the accurate quote and context – and do the decent thing of clarifying where they actually stand on the issue that triggered the controversy. The actual NRDC quote referred to above is ““This is the single biggest step the president can take to lower drivers’ gas bills and cut heat-trapping pollution at the same time.” Maybe that has the significance and clear meaning that Matt Osborne claims. But then why not use the actual quote intact. Frankly, using the NRDC in defense of the White House in this context is shady, when their reaction to the ruling in question was actually this:

    In response to today’s White House announcement that the ozone standard will be delayed, NRDC President Frances Beinecke issued the following statement:
    “The White House is siding with corporate polluters over the American people. The Clean Air Act clearly requires the Environmental Protection Agency to set protective standards against smog–based on science and the law. The White House now has polluted that process with politics.
    “Our public officials, including in the White House, serve to protect us from harm. They need to get on with doing their jobs. Inaction cannot be an option when it comes to ensuring a healthy and prosperous America.”

    I also have to laugh when the negative response is chalked up to a “progressive freakout.” If the NRDC is, in fact. like every mainline environmental group I’ve seen so far, part of this “progressive freakout” don’t try to use clipped quotes from same to imply that sensible environmentalists have a balanced view of these actions while “progressives” are engaged in some freakout.

    The notion that you have to rationalize stuff like this – and defend it as policy, no less – in order to preserve “party unity” for the election campaign is a pathology that matches in a weird way assholes like Matt Stoller who think that every compromise is a total betrayal. It’s the mindset of one idiotic purist position versus another that’s equally idiotic. One can argue the politics or relative merits of this versus other steps that have been taken, and one can argue for perspective relative to overall environmental gains, but to call this decison “solid policy” is perverse, at best.

  79. 79
    Corner Stone says:

    @Bruce S: Sounds like Super Dave Osborne isn’t playing straight shooters here. And ABL is using him to hack her way to hackery heaven.
    Hoocoodanode.

  80. 80
    efgoldman says:

    @Akadad:

    Just because the quality of life is better in Liberal New England…

    Which “quality of life” is that?
    The dead and dying industrial cities? It isn’t the Midwest Rust Belt, and the cities are smaller, but it started almost a half-century earlier for us.
    The fished-out fisheries where the boats aren’t allowed to go out any more?
    The tens of thousands of financial-industry jobs that have disappeared in the last ten years?
    “Liberal” New Hampshire, where the TeaTards run the legislature, and tried to de-fund Planned Parenthood?
    Or Maine, where the governor is a TeaTard? And the “moderate” GOBP senatorial ladies have supported every. single. GOBP. obstruction tactic?
    “Liberal” MA, where three consecutive House Speakers have been convicted of felonies?
    Or my little corner of RI, which self-identifies as the “most Catholic state int he country?”
    Yeah, five out of six states passed same-sex marriage (although ME took it away again, and they’re trying really hard in NH).
    And Romney did push through the health care bill, to his eternal regret.
    But still…

  81. 81
    Yutsano says:

    @efgoldman:

    “Liberal” MA, where three consecutive House Speakers have been convicted of felonies?

    You fergot Senator Cosmo.

  82. 82
    Roy G says:

    Plus this has the advantages of filling Obama’s campaign coffers, so that we can continue to drink piss instead of eat shit.

    Isn’t that what compromise is all about?

  83. 83
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @efgoldman: Well, you aren’t Mississippi or Alabama.

  84. 84
    Marc says:

    The freakout part is pretty simple to explain. Positive actions get minimized or ignored; negative actions get over-the-top outrage; and everything that Obama does gets interpreted in the worst possible light.

    The CAFE standard changes were a big deal – and the same people mouthing fury about the ozone ruling weren’t, by and large, vocally appreciate about it. In fact, they were pretty much moving from one hostile and angry attack on him to another.

  85. 85
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @efgoldman:

    Ubetcha. :)

  86. 86
    Lolis says:

    I think it was probably the worst decision the Obama administration has made thus far, in part because it was the one that is most different from what he campaigned on. I won’t try to defend it. I wasn’t hugely disappointed because I have no expectation for anything great coming out of government on the environment. I think it is probably true that the environment is too far gone to be salvaged at this point anyway.

    I still think Jade Jordan is an idiot. What have all those purity votes gotten her except a huge ego?

  87. 87
    pluege says:

    the number of zero-emission electrified vehicles on American roads will go up 4,500 percent in the next six years. That’s nearly one million cars that won’t create any smog at all.

    that’s just ignorance. Right now electricity in the US is nearly all produced by smog producing fossil fuel based generating stations. Until or unless the US changes to sustainable non-fossil fuel based renewable energy generation of electricity, electric cars will be an improvement over gasoline powered cars, but they are far from not contributing to air pollution.

  88. 88
    b-town says:

    @rossindetroit

    Care to be more specific about your anecdote?

    Because if this is what you are talking about then I call bullshit.

  89. 89
    Don K says:

    In case anyone’s interested, fuel mileage standards don’t necessarily do anything to improve air quality other than through lower CO2 emissions, which have everything to do with global warming and absolutely nothing to do with smog. The types of emissions that affect smog (primarily NOx) and other aspects of urban air quality (CO, HC, and particulates) are regulated on a g/mile basis. In other words, that obnoxious pickup your neighbor has emits exactly the same amount per mile traveled as a Honda Fit, assuming they’re both tuned to just meet the standards.

    As for electric vehicles, well, it depends. If you live in the Northwest, with its abundance of hydro power, then yeah, electric cars are pretty much emissions-free. If you live someplace where electricity is generated from coal, then the emissions of your car are the emissions of the power plants producing the electricity. I’m pretty sure that’s still less than a car meeting the present standards, but it ain’t zero by any stretch.

  90. 90
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @efgoldman: Relative. Did we forget what the term means? I’ve lived in New England and now I’m back in Texas. And relative to this shithole, the turds floating in NE toilets have a better quality of life.

  91. 91
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Hey! Fuck you. Go back where you came from you fucking former Republican.
    And if you don’t jerk yourself off every night while you’re here then go somewhere else and spank it out.

  92. 92
    Lojasmo says:

    Osbourne authored This because Obama offered to catch. ( homophobic reference implied) /Derp.

  93. 93
    Akadad says:

    @efgoldman:

    Compared to the rest of the country, New England does have a better quality of life. Especially Massachusetts, with good schools, health care, freedom to marry, and higher wages.

  94. 94
    LT says:

    @RossInDetroit:

    Look, we’re mostly on the same side here, but this:

    @LT:
    I said a dirty coal plant was being replaced by a NG plant.
    I never said ‘clean coal’
    Can/do you read?

    is going too far. This is what you wrote, in comment #15:

    A local ancient, inefficient nasty coal fired municipal power plant can now be replaced with the clean, efficient modern NG plant that’s been planned.

    I mean, just stop, please.

  95. 95
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Don K:

    fuel mileage standards don’t necessarily do anything to improve air quality other than through lower CO2 emissions

    Oh, no, Obama only lowered CO2 emissions, the largest human cause to Climate Change, which, last time I checked, is a big fucking problem. More importantly, though, he did something, but it’s obviously not enough because he decided not everything was worthing fighting for.

    *Sigh* I know what your point was, but it’s really coming off as “Since Obama didn’t do everything, nothing he did is important.”

  96. 96
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Corner Stone: CS, I have been in texas for 33 of my almost 42 years. I was born here. Six of those years were spent in the Navy in VA, and 3 in college in MA. And I have been a fucking liberal in this state since I paid attention to politics. I reserve the right to talk shit about my state.

  97. 97
    cleek says:

    bah, motherfucker. the Perry/Bachmann administration will be better on every single issue that the self-proclaimed liberal base claims to care about.

    Perry will exceed Obama in every way. that’s why they’re fighting for him. duh.

    Perry 2012: the True Liberal Champion.

  98. 98
    jwb says:

    @Corner Stone: That flailing quip really hit the mark, eh?

  99. 99
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Earliest political memory: Carter flying into the Abilene airport on Braniff airlines – the green planes – during his reelection campaign against Reagan. I was 10.

  100. 100
    Corner Stone says:

    @jwb: I enjoy it. Thanks.

  101. 101
    Akadad says:

    @cleek:

    Exactly. Rick Perry is the true maverick. He makes John McCain look like a conformist.

  102. 102
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): You’re gonna compare TX to less than a bowl? On 6 years?
    No, don’t think so. Complain all you want but give me a fucking break.

  103. 103
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Oh, Abilene. Sorry.

  104. 104
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Sigh I know what your point was, but it’s really coming off as “Since Obama did one good thing, everything he did is good.”
    .
    .

  105. 105
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    Judging from the comment following yours, you’ve pissed off a Tough Talking Texan who voted for Gramps and Snowbilly Snooki. Be careful now, don’t mess with Texas!

    Especially when Texans are doing a perfectly good job of messing it up themselves.

  106. 106
    Bruce S says:

    #79 CornerStone: I think Osborne would have had a more credible point – arguing for a broader perspective and context – if he’d also put the NRDC’s positions in balance, given that he wanted to use them to stoke his own argument. And had he not attempted to simply slime folks who don’t agree with him and have raised significnt questions – especially when this is fully within the purview of the executive branch, and not some stand-off with a crazy GOP congress.

    As it stands, it seems more like he’s trying to make the position of the administration’s own EPA seem like bad policy because he’s the one with a political axe to grind. I’ve said elsewhere that this is not a defining issue IMHO although I don’t like it. I’m not even close to being on the side of the folks who appear to be invested in attacking Obama, like Cornel West and Tavis Smiley. But don’t sell me a bill of goods that turns nearly universal disagreement on the merits of an issue by every group that’s concerned with environmental policy into a “freakout.” God help us if we have to fucking salute like a bunch of little party commissars – or affirm that it’s a political necessity or some sort of brilliant strategy – every time the White House comes through with some decision that seems on the merits of the issue less than stellar.

    At some point, the repetition of defensive screeds rings hollow given the predictability. Based on the one-note performance here, I don’t take ABL any more seriously than I take some asshole like Matt Stoller who can be counted on to proclaim every administration compromise an Obama betrayal.

  107. 107

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Be careful now, don’t mess with Texas!
    __
    Especially when Texans are doing a perfectly good job of messing it up themselves.

    According to my Twitter feed, Texas and Oklahoma are in flames right now. Maybe God is mad at Rick Perry?

  108. 108
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Corner Stone: I meant 33 years, as I changed it to. I originally wanted to say something like “all but 6 of my 42 years in Texas” but it didn’t work out right, so I changed it to 33. Gastritis broke my calculator.

  109. 109
    virag says:

    if obama killed and ate every member of abl’s family while she watched, she would deny in all caps that he was a murderous cannibal and after a coupla days tell the rest of us that being a murderous cannibal was the bestest thing ever!

  110. 110
    Akadad says:

    @virag:

    Thanks for your super helpful and non-hyperbolic comment.

  111. 111
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @virag: There’s a straight up definition of a slipper slope argument if there ever was one. “He makes a policy decision I don’t agree with” != “He would kill an entire family.” It’s not even something that has to be conceived. I suspect murder is a line that would change most people’s minds.

  112. 112
    Corner Stone says:

    @virag:

    if obama killed and ate every member of abl’s family while she watched, she would deny in all caps that he was a murderous cannibal and after a coupla days tell the rest of us that being a murderous cannibal was the bestest thing ever!

    Hmmph. If Obama was chewing up her right arm she’d swap her mobile over to the left hand to keep typing that it wasn’t all bad. She could now be called Angry Black Lefty.

  113. 113
    Corner Stone says:

    @Odious Hugh Manatee: Yes Odious. As usual, you’re on top of it.

  114. 114
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): No problem. Living in Abilene is enough to fuck with anyone.
    Just call yourself an Okie for God’s sake.

  115. 115
    burnspbesq says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    I have never regretted any vote like I have my vote for Obama.

    That makes you officially too fucking stupid to merit anything but contempt.

  116. 116
    And Another Thing… says:

    Most of the articles on the issue are bulging with hyperbolic rhetoric & don’t actually cite the numbers in the EPA proposal. The current standard is 75 parts per billion. The EPA proposal is 70 parts per billion. People need to get a grip.

  117. 117
    srv says:

    Eventually, you’d think Bible Belters who invaded Texas in the 70’s and 80’s would start wondering why God is punishing them so much.

    I guess I should have accepted all their friend requests so I could explain the concept of wrath to their pointy little heads.

  118. 118
    John Weiss says:

    @Jade Jordan: Poor child. I suppose you’d prefer McCain?

    Or perhaps you’re more Rick Perry?

    You make me ill.

  119. 119
    Mark S. says:

    If Obama used our entire arsenal to nuke the rest of the world, he would be the greatest mass murderer of all time.

  120. 120
    Ruckus says:

    Ponies, these people don’t want ponies, they want gold plated fucking stallions.

  121. 121
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @LT: Ross used the word “clean” but did not, in fact, use the word “coal.” Is the objection that “clean coal” is trumped-up PR bullshit, or that any use of the word “clean” in proximity to the name of a fuel is trumped-up PR bullshit?

  122. 122
    John Weiss says:

    @Jade Jordan: Throw your vote away, I hope it makes you feel nice. You’ve certainly shown the Libs, haven’t you?

    Idiot.

  123. 123
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ruckus: “My gold plated stallion is way too heavy! I’ve never regretted anything more!”

  124. 124
    Corner Stone says:

    @Mark S.: Hmmm…hmmm…

  125. 125
    Corner Stone says:

    @srv: Tell everyone how much you love TX.
    Remember, I know where the Rothko Chapel is.

  126. 126
    Ruckus says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Ever the straight man. You’re welcome.

  127. 127
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @burnspbesq:

    That makes you officially too fucking stupid to merit anything but contempt.

    I thought she was talking about the primaries. You obviously know different, since you opened your big yap to loudly pronounce someone stupid for it (which is always the smart thing for a balloonbagger to do).
    .
    .

  128. 128
    John Weiss says:

    @Don K: Oh, fellah, the way power is distributed on this continent is very much like the way oil is distributed internationally. It’s not like our Pacific power isn’t mixed with every other producer’s.

    We’re all in this together, like it or not.

  129. 129
    Corner Stone says:

    Speaking of the Osborne Ultimatum…is the role played by Julia Stiles, “Nicky Parsons” an actual real person in the movie? Or is she a figment of Bourne’s chemically fucked up imagination?
    I think there’s an argument to be made that she doesn’t exist.

    ETA, fuck. the more I think about this the more I think this is a modern day retelling of the Alice in Wonderland saga.

  130. 130
    LT says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Is the objection that “clean coal” is trumped-up PR bullshit, or that any use of the word “clean” in proximity to the name of a fuel is trumped-up PR bullshit?

    We’re talking about a specific fuel here. And using “clean” to described its use reflects back on “clean coal” pr bullshit, whether one intends it to or not.

  131. 131
    Corner Stone says:

    Holy shit. Bourne is Alice.
    It all makes sense now.

  132. 132
    Darnell From LA says:

    Treat yourself; try searching for the any mention of the Ozone regulations on either DailyKos or FireBagLake prior to 72 hrs ago, see how many times they were mentioned over the last year. The answer is not at all.

    Nor was there ever any mention on the Purist-Liberal blogs about the TRAIN Act, the GOP bill meant to stop the Ozone regs. That’s right, nothing was ever said about these oh soooo important EPA regs until this past Friday. Now: “Oh, they are soooo important! Oh, I can’t breath…cough.”

    Fuck the Pro-Left and its minions.

  133. 133
    Bruce S says:

    Unfortunately “And Another Thing” there actually IS “another thing”- rather than revert to the 75ppb, this move in effect actually sets the standards back to 1997’s 84 parts per billion. At least according to the American Lung Association via Think Progress/CAP (neither of which were when I last checked being helmed by Jane Hamsher.)

  134. 134
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas: I see what you did there, you clever boy. Did you learn that before or after you got to the bench? My wife gets rather angry when my six year old does that to her.

    My logic is a little rusty, but shouldn’t the opposite of what I said be “He did something wrong, and he did something right”?

  135. 135
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darnell From LA: Thank you Darnell From LA. I’m not sure anyone would have ever known no one gave a shit about breathing without you pointing it out.

  136. 136
    Anya says:

    @MikeJ:

    Even the liberal Obot DougJ said he sold us out was bought. Why should I believe the administration when I have DougJ to tell me teh TRUTH?

    FTFY.

  137. 137
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Corner Stone: Except in the second movie she is talked to by Joan Allen’s character. Now it would be an interesting storyline if all three movies were in his head.

  138. 138
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Did she? Did she really?
    I’m pretty sure Joan Allen was humoring him.

  139. 139
    Corner Stone says:

    My name Darnell! Darnell From LA!! My name Darnell!

  140. 140
  141. 141
    Darnell From LA says:

    @Corner Stone: And funny how as we are both typing these words we are…..voila’, BREATHING! Wow, I just did it again. Ooops, there went another breath!

    Then again, if you cannot understand the foolish hypocrisy of freaking out over somethig you didn’t even know existed until 3 days ago, then maybe one of us isn’t breathing. LOL.

  142. 142
    srv says:

    @Corner Stone: Most of you lazy asses barely voted against GW twice. Some of us voted against him four times.

    BTW, I stumbled across an old warrior of BJ back in the day. I know the poster’s here only enjoy beating hippies, but maybe they could invite a real man, with real values like TallDave to help out.

  143. 143
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    And yet, sadly, all I want to do is shut up the lying sack of shit Republicans I work with and live near and never allow them in power again. I think we need a Senate Majority Leader who isn’t as wishy-washy as Reid; he is the real weakness problem we have right now, because it’s his job to get the bills passed through the Senate that need to be signed. I think Pelosi needs to be given her job back, and I would prefer to have the Republicans crushed so bad that she stands on Boehner’s dead body and rips the arm out of his socket before taking the gavel from it.

    Any fighting we do should be against the Republicans.

    God may have created Dune to train the faithful, but he created Texas so he could collect who he was going to send to hell in one place.

  144. 144
    Bruce S says:

    Hey Darnell – here’s a little “fuck you too” from Think Progress:

    http://thinkprogress.org/?s=%2.....7&y=6

    If you have to troll FDL and Kos to get your marching orders in the opposite direction, I feel sorry for you. You come off as a total asshole.

  145. 145
    Corner Stone says:

    @srv: Yeah, honky. Some of us did.

  146. 146
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darnell From LA: Derp! Good one Darnell From LA!
    You derped me but derping derp!

  147. 147
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Corner Stone:
    I should have known, but there is a Bourne Wiki. It talks about Pamela Landy trying to convince Nicky to help them capture Bourne.

  148. 148
    Darnell From LA says:

    I for one am not going to get blindsided like this again.

    Therefore, I hereby begin freaking out over all government regulations that I;

    A) Know nothing about

    and

    B)May nor may NOT be being implemented as we speak.

    So, here goes;

    I am SOOOOOOO mad at Obama for not enacting Dept of Interior Land Act 23769.868H/2, section D-F.

    Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go protest at the White House about something I just found out about on Firedoglake 20 minutes ago…..

  149. 149
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Like many others here, my sense of the piece is that it’s redirecting the objection “Why did Obama yank the new regulations?” into “Why is Obama so bad on pollution?” and then refuting the latter by pointing to some other things that have been good on pollution. But, like Elaine Benes said to her importer-exporter boyfriend Art Vandelay, why not do both? Do higher CAFE standards _and_ tighter controls on ozone.

    Anyway, the story is almost certainly not that this is a good policy decision that uninformed people have misunderstood, but rather that it is a bad policy decision tied to internal Democratic debates about how to balance reviving the economy (especially in the Rust Belt) and protecting the environment.

  150. 150
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darnell From LA: Yep, you’re too ignorant to know anything about the subject matter so de facto everyone else on the planet is.
    Good call Darnell From LA.

  151. 151
    Sam Houston says:

    @Jade Jordan: Talk about disappointing votes… I voted for Reagan when I was 21! I keep telling people about it and I know I’ll never live it down. ;)

    Look, I know if I had a time machine and went back to see myself in 2002. My 2002 self would say, “big deal Your President didn’t turn out to be 100% roses. My President is a certified bloodthirsty loon!”

    So in complete fairness I think this would be a completely appropriate Obama 2012 re-election slogan:

    Obama 2012: He’s NOT Bloodthirsty!

  152. 152
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Well, yeah. That’s the “official” wiki. That’s what the “man” wants you to believe about the Bourne series.
    C’mon!

  153. 153
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    I think we need a Senate Majority Leader who isn’t as wishy-washy as Reid

    I’m not sure someone with more personality than Reid would be able to be trusted by the center-right and center-left wings at the same time. It’s a job that lends itself to nondescript procedure-wonks.

  154. 154
    Corner Stone says:

    @Corner Stone: This all makes so much more sense now. How else did one man elude all those equally trained assets? They were figments.
    The recurring visions of the dark haired young woman he killed on a high.
    He’s always been looking for a way out of the rabbit hole. He’s in a mental hospital somewhere detoxing.
    Shit.

  155. 155
    Bruce S says:

    While I think it’s likely I might fall asleep if subjected to an elevator ride alone with Harry Reid that lasted longer than three floors, he actually has done a remarkably good job at what he’s supposed to do. Both of the leaders – Reid and Pelosi – are excellent IMHO. Especially given how fucked up and fractious the party happens to be.

  156. 156
    Darnell From LA says:

    @Corner Stone: No, not everyone on the planet. I never said that. Try reading my comments again, slowly.

    Nobody, and I mean nobody who reads ANY of the elite left wing blogs talked about these regs prior to Friday. And if they were so important, and they knew about them, we would be able to pull up the diaries, comments, or Jane Hamsher fundraising emails.

    These regs were in the works for over 3 goddamn years. Not one word from the elite left.

    These regs were delayed 3 different times. Not one word from the elite left.

    Hell, a GOP Rep. named Sullivan wrote the “TRAIN Act” in an effort to derail (heh) these Ozone regs. Not one word, special comment, diary, protest, bitch session, or Daniel Choi stunt whatsoever, fucking ever.

    Now, I’m sure there were folks IN THE WORLD who knew about these reg before this past Friday, they just don’t read progressive blogs, that’s all.

    Please provide me with pictures of the protests or FDL’s fundraising for “Ozone Regs” or deal with the facts.

  157. 157
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @FlipYrWhig: I know we like to talk about Obama using the bully pulpit, but Congress actually has those things built, and it’s part of their procedures to use it. Though, to be honest, Reid is partially being treated the same way Obama does by the media: He can make a speech, but the news stations would rather report on the latest fashion trends instead.

  158. 158
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Corner Stone: Think about the Matrix. Maybe Neo is a rabbit, and his metaphor for getting our of the rabbit hole is that he’s really having trouble getting out of the rabbit hole.

  159. 159
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darnell From LA: Who the fuck cares about your petty grievances you little bitch?
    The ‘elite left’ ? Fuck you Darnell From LA.
    Life is a little bigger than you and your spank bank.

  160. 160
    And Another Thing… says:

    Bruce S at 133. While it’s possible that the ozone standard will revert to the 84 ppb, I don’t see where the Lung Association press release says that. I’m tired & it’s late so I may have missed it. Ive read at least 20 articles looking for info rather than rhetoric, & dont recall anyone arguing that this means reversion to 84 ppb.. There’s plenty of arguing that the standard should be lower like at 60 ppb My understanding of the situation is that in 2008 the Bush Admin approved an ozone standard of 75 ppb, disappointing/angering many. The EPA recommended 70 & the Pres said no, the Bush rule remains in effect.

    Since you mentioned Hamsher, my gratuitous crack is that we should have been suspicious when she put Lieberman in black face and got in bed with Grover fucking Norquist. Both of these showed massive lapses in judgement.

  161. 161
    srv says:

    @Corner Stone: I used to keep track of who lived where, but you never came up as TX. So it must be Ohio if you’re double voting.

  162. 162
    Anya says:

    @Corner Stone: You seem to be really edgy these days. Every time I see you, you’re calling someone a ‘bitch”. What happened to you, man? You’re losing your touch.

  163. 163
    Darnell From LA says:

    @Corner Stone: Ah, did my presentation of facts hurt your Pro-Left, “Obama is worstest Preznit ever” day dream?

    Here’s a hint; if you are confronted with facts that contradict your thinking, and instead of re-examining your thinking you respond with the open and shut argument: “Who the fuck cares about your petty grievances you little bitch?” you lose.

    Look, I am trying to educate you. But I can only bring you to the water. If you want to continue to wallow in your ignorance, whether your a Hamsher or a Tea Bagger there’s little I can do!

  164. 164
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: Aren’t you married now?

  165. 165
    Corner Stone says:

    @srv: I don’t know where you are now douchey, but I’m in TX.

  166. 166
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Anya: It’s hot here in Texas, most of the state is burning, most of the people are barely getting by, and yet people keep electing dumbasses. The only thing that keeps me from doing what he is doing is that I grew up in Abilene (see mine and CS’s comments earlier); almost anywhere else in the state is better (I’m in the Metroplex now).

  167. 167
    Anya says:

    @Corner Stone: not yet. I will send you the gift registration link.

  168. 168
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    I see what you did there, you clever boy. Did you learn that before or after you got to the bench? My wife gets rather angry when my six year old does that to her.

    No, you don’t see what I did. (More on that later.) BTW, all balloonbaggers get rather angry when attention is focused on their all-knowing hypocrisy and faulty logic.

    My logic is a little rusty, but shouldn’t the opposite of what I said be “He did something wrong, and he did something right”?

    Actually, no. But that aside, I was mocking you by using a parallel form of your supercilious misrepresentation. Your lack of comprehension and misunderstanding of my rhetorical techniques is common among balloonbaggers, so don’t fret about standing out in the crowd.

    Sigh. <– Again, more mockery, this time of a literal nature.
    .
    .

  169. 169
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darnell From LA: You aren’t educating shit. You keep referring to a subset of a subset of a subset. As if it’s important to anyone here but you.
    Catch a clue jackie. Anyone who uses Hamsher as their mirror has got their own set of issues.
    Your issues. Not ours.

  170. 170
    Corner Stone says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): Abilene is a shithole. Good luck to you cowtown.

  171. 171
    Anya says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): CS lives in Texas? That explains everything. I hope you guys don’t inflict on the nation your dumb ass sociopathic governor.

  172. 172
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: Haven’t you been staying with the relatives for like two weeks now?

  173. 173
    Darnell From LA says:

    @Corner Stone: I want to understand your comment, but my gibberish to English translator isn’t working…..

  174. 174
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: Romney will be the R nominee.

  175. 175
    Sly says:

    @tomjones:
    The Teamsters endorsed Reagan in 1980 and 1984 and it didn’t exactly work out well for them. They remember this well, and its not exactly a lesson that other organized labor groups like the AFL are willing to repeat, no matter how pissed they are that EFCA has been shelved for the foreseeable future.

    This is Trumka sticking up for his members, like he did with negotiating a better deal on the health benefits tax in PPACA. Nothing wrong with it, but I guarantee you the usual suspects will start hating him (again) for “selling them out” once he gets what he wants from the administration and all of the sudden decides to open the money spigot for 2012 after all. He’s not stupid. He sees whats going on in states like Wisconsin and Indiana and knows which way the wind is blowing.

  176. 176
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @Darn Your Socks:

    Fuck the Pro-Left and its minions.

    Oooh, I bet you a tough tweetin creetin too! More, plz n 4rlz.
    .
    .

  177. 177
    Anya says:

    @Corner Stone: with mom and dad because I am finalizing a research project I am working on. Why?

  178. 178
    Corner Stone says:

    @Darnell From LA: Darnell From LA, you’re an idiot. I can’t make it any plainer than that.
    You hate white people and have a grudge against tiny little websites you imagine to be significant foes.
    You counter every outcome against how it plays against these otherwise insignificant websites because it makes you feel special and powerful in some way no one has yet been able to explain to you.
    You aren’t special, the websites aren’t significant and your futile attempts to stage against a foe have failed.
    Miserably.
    Because no one cares what FDL thinks about the EPA rules.

  179. 179
    Anya says:

    @Corner Stone: what makes you think that? From all indication Romney’s support is stuck at 19% and Perry is gaining support. Do you think Romney will win Florida and California?

  180. 180
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: Have a good time, and a good marriage.
    Wedding day goes by really fast. Don’t worry too much about it.

  181. 181
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: Perry will self destruct and Romney is hiding until then. He’ll be the nominee.

  182. 182
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Anya: If I could find some way to keep him off the ticket, I would do it. If Stephen King had not written the Dead Zone, Perry would be the one holding up a baby to protect himself. Instead, I sure as heck hope we come together as a nation to stop this threat. That’s the biggest reason this fighting between those of us left of Ben Nelson is driving me nuts: There are bigger threats to this world than the level of progressive Obama is. Because even if he has failed to do two things for every thing he has accomplished, he’s still >> any Republican, and even better than Clinton.

    BTW, the retirement age for SS is rising to 66. Make sure that everyone knows Reagan signed that bill.

  183. 183
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: I misunderstood something you posted a while back.

    ETA, I thought you were about to get married a couple weeks ago. My bad.

  184. 184
    frapalinger says:

    I’m sorry, but this shit makes me sick. There is no excusing this action by the president. None. He has now bought into the bull shit that we need to coddle the sensitive and rare birds, the job creators. Since regulations that keep the precious job creators from poisoning the air scare the job creators, we can’t have them. The job creators need to be confident they can give us all lung cancer, then they will lay their magical job eggs.

    Either that or he is just a total fucking door mat that can’t play fucking politics to save his life, cause at the end of the day, this whole act of playing mr. sensible grown-up isn’t even fucking working. If bending over backwards to the galtian overlords was playing well at the polls, i’d fucking tolerate it, but his numbers keep going down.

    I know he can’t do anything because of psycho obstructionists, I know the whole thing is fucked, I know he’s desperately trying to stave off the 35% unemployment that was a real possibility at the end of 2008 – but, if the Republicans will do everything in their power to kill his presidency, then for the love of the flying spaghetti monster, stand up and fucking fight them. Say, “fuck you, Boehner, I’m playing politics and I’m gonna piss all over your stupid contest to see who can deny evolution the most and have my speech the same night, cause I feel like steeling headlines, got a problem with it, go fuck yourself, I’m the president.” Just once, just fucking once, something like that. But no, never. He’s trying to get David Broder’s ghost to vote for him – and it’s not going to happen.

  185. 185
    Anya says:

    @Corner Stone: Thanks! I must admit it’s a really stressful time. As my mom says, it’s silly to get stressed by a ceremony that’s only few hours long, specially now when people are facing such hardships (sucks to have a hippie mom when you’re planning a wedding) but every day I regret not eloping.

    @Corner Stone:
    Do you really think in this crazy republican primary, there’s anything that will lose Perry the crazy vote? He’s dumb and does not seem to have the Bush machine behind him, but Romney seems really bad at campaigning. And he’s hamstrung by a total fear of offending the teabaggers. If Perry is to self destruct, then that would be as a result of sustained attacks from Romney, but right now he (Perry) looks like he will cruise to the nomination.

  186. 186
    Anya says:

    @Corner Stone: What was that?

    ETA: In six weeks.

  187. 187
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @frapalinger:

    have my speech the same night, cause I feel like steeling headlines, got a problem with it, go fuck yourself, I’m the president.

    It really is lousy having a president that won’t act like Bush, isn’t it? He should just write the resolution forcing the two Congresses to meet together so that he can talk about jobs, rather than waiting for them to do it.

    The thing that drives me most nuts about this is that this is about the only way Obama can get the cameras to stay on while he talks. His last speech on the economy that I heard about was covered by the local networks saying he was giving a speech and they were going to other news. I couldn’t believe that they were treating him that way. He’s the fucking president.

  188. 188
    Yutsano says:

    @Anya: This time in 2007 G9u11iani seemed to be cruising too (as was Hillary) but there’s a shit ton of politics left to play out yet.

  189. 189
    srv says:

    @frapalinger:

    Either that or he is just a total fucking door mat that can’t play fucking politics to save his life

    In some other opposite universe, you must have encountered an emo Bill Daley.

  190. 190
    Anya says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent): I totally agree with you. It’s a short time to 2012 so we have to focus our arsenals at the republicans. Even if Romney is elected he will not be any better. Look at what the supposed moderate is doing in Michigan.

    As for Perry, I really don’t think Americans will stomach a less personable Bush (at least Bush pretended to be compassionate).

    @Yutsano: True. But Romney seems to be following G9u11iani’s (I like that) strategy of waiting for Florida and California.

  191. 191
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: Couple things.
    It’s easy for me to say take it easy on your wedding day. I already had mine!
    And I’ll say you won’t remember more than two or three images from it. It goes by so freakin fast.

    As for Perry/Romney. Perry has a huge record he’s going to get bombed on. He’ll win a couple early primaries but all the money is with Romney.
    Romney just has to stay away from hard staking any ground.
    Perry will flame out (pun intended), and Romney will be the nominee.

  192. 192
    KG says:

    Here’s what I don’t get when it comes to the air quality stuff and the auto industry… while the federal government can have a pretty solid effect as the market regulator, it can have a really powerful effect as a market participant.

    Look, I would love to see more hybrids and electric cars on the road (and I think a decent number of the population would want that too), but it’s obvious that the way the automakers have worked, they don’t care. Look at the early hybrids and electrics… ugly as all fucking hell, which led people not wanting to buy them (still never understood why they couldn’t have put those engines in regular looking cars). But that’s the way it’s gone.

    So, what if during the jobs speech this week Obama announced that within the next ten years (or 15 if you want), the federal government was going to convert it’s entire auto fleet to hybrid or electric cars? That might actually force automakers to make hybrids and electrics as something other than novelty cars by creating a huge demand for them (and if they don’t look like something you don’t even want as a hotwheels car, maybe more people will buy them)… not only that, but it could create a shitton of jobs too.

    Just an idea.

  193. 193
    handy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Romney just has to stay away from hard staking any ground.

    Story of his life.

  194. 194
    KG says:

    @Anya: nah, unlike Rudy, Romney is going to win in New Hampshire and Nevada, and fairly impressively. He can ride out Iowa and South Carolina to Super-ish Tuesday, where he can win Florida, California, and probably most of the other big states not called Texas. It’s not a bad strategy, actually. If he were smarter, he’d be making a bigger deal of winning New Hampshire, he’s making a big mistake of letting too much attention be paid to Iowa.

  195. 195
    Corner Stone says:

    @handy: Yep. And he’s already been vetted. Everyone knows about his pappy, his Bain money, his dead dog on the car, etc.
    Now Perry is about to get the ram rod of public spectacle right up the wazoo. And it’s IMO that he can’t take it.
    Perry will shove the IED up his southern most receptacle.

  196. 196
    Bruce S says:

    The reversion to the 1997 standard rather than the MORE RESTRICTIVE Bush-proposed standard is in the American Lung Association piece I linked, via Think Progress, and it’s also explained here:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/....._blog.html

    I haven’t seen any refutation of this – which is ironic at best given the ‘OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH HE SOLD US OUT!!’ tag on this post. As for Jane Hamsher, I don’t give a fuck about her and neither does anyone I’ve ever actually spoken to in real life. Frankly, I don’t think anyone is paying much attention to Tavis Smiley’s attacks either, although his name-recognition dwarfs Hamsher’s by probably some tens of millions. If Obama has lost steam among some of his “base” it’s wishful thinking to blame it on “progressive bloggers” or disgruntled egomaniacs desiring more attention from the President, just as it’s wishful thinking to assume that half-baked rationalizations will placate people who care deeply about the issues. Clean air happens to be one issue that cuts across ideology more than most at the citizen level (excepting, of course, business lobbyists.)

    I’m having trouble seeing any political genius at work here. Even after reading the apologia above, I’m totally mystified at how anyone thought this was smart politics.

  197. 197
    handy says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Interesting. I don’t know much about the man and how he’ll handle adversity. Shrub had that uncanny ability when seemingly backed up in a corner to run the “awe shucks” play and the press corp ate it up. Of course, it also helped having Colonel Ratfucker Turdblossom himself in his corner.

  198. 198
    Bruce S says:

    Although my edit is being blocked for some reason, that last was a response to “Another Thing” at #160

  199. 199
    jon says:

    Barack Iscariot has done it again. The Betrayalist wing of the party is always ready to point that out.

    I just wish it would do so with better outrage. I demand giant puppet heads and some oversized hands grasping at thirty pieces of silver!

  200. 200
    Corner Stone says:

    @handy: Bush had lineage. And a lot of money and network going full blast. Not just the execrABLe Rove. He had three generations of connections covering his ass.
    Perry not only doesn’t have that, he has some of those guys actively gunning for him.
    And they’ve got lots of material to submarine his ass with.

  201. 201

    This is unreal. ABL quotes an article explaining that the EPA regulation change is small potatoes and explaining how Obama’s anti-smog actions dwarf it. It also lays out a bunch of other great stuff he’s done that is commonly demanded of him, and explains how this is all part of a strategy that ties these disparate positives together.

    It’s been ignored. Just plain ignored. The closest to an argument I’ve seen has been debates over numbers on the EPA change or a complaint about the use of a quote. Neither of those comes close to addressing the actual point of the article. And I had to get to *COMMENT 78* to find one of those arguments. Until then it was all ad hominems and accusations of blind loyalty.

    God damn, people. This is why you get called Emobaggers and stuff like that. If you don’t agree, refute the argument instead of pretending it doesn’t exist.

    Eventually… EVENTUALLY someone at least asked ‘Why not do both?’ There’s actually an answer for that. A large chunk of Senate Democrats demanded this change, and has been pointed out, it’s the final negotiated deal of a long-running debate within the Democratic party. Obama does need to keep the Senate Dems behind him. I hope that seems like a decent answer to your question.

  202. 202
    Corner Stone says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: Shut up you fucking fop. It didn’t come down like this at all.
    She quoted propaganda.

  203. 203
    Corner Stone says:

    Gosh! Golly gee! How could anyone not address the issue honestly cited here?
    Gee whiz!

  204. 204
    Corner Stone says:

    Kind of reminds me of someone’s usual style. Post some bullshit that’s somehow supposed to bolster a talking point. But massively flames out upon review.
    Hmmm…where’ve I seen that before? Seems somehow…familiar.

  205. 205
    Darnell From LA says:

    @Corner Stone: Ahh, the racism comes out.

    You see, idiot, I am white. Not black, white.

    Nowhere in my comment is there any remark even bordering on race.

    But, sure enough, whenever I use a traditionally African-American name for my comments it acts as bait. And every single time a racist like you reveals themself.

    i.e. Nothing, NOTHING borders on race in my comments. I make arguments that are based on emperical data and histoirical fact. But, whenever I use “Darnell” or “Tryell” etc, for my comments it’s like a juicy worm in the face of racists, it is only a matter of time before a vile, disgusting, racist fool such as you have shown yourself to be accuses me (2nd gen German / Swiss) of “hating white people.”

    You’re exposed. Racist. You are the type of person who makes non-racist white like me people feel shame.

    Lonely, racist, most likely angry old person. That’s you. I feel bad for you. God have mercy on you.

  206. 206
    Uriel says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    They’re Axelrod’s talking points as much as the Republicans’.

    Wow- Now that’s just desperate. And really, really sad.

  207. 207
    Uriel says:

    @AA+ Bonds:

    They’re Axelrod’s talking points as much as the Republicans’.

    Wow- Now that’s just desperate. And really, really sad.

  208. 208
    Uriel says:

    God damn it! Look, I’m not doing anything paticurlarly unusual here. I’m just hitting ‘submit.’ There must be some way to fix this shit so that every post I make off my iPad doesn’t end up posting twice.

  209. 209
    Uriel says:

    @Corner Stone:

    You hate white people and have a grudge against tiny little websites you imagine to be significant foes.

    Uh oh! Looks like someone finally lost his shit and forgot to hide all that obvious race baiting behind the curtain of oh-so-put-upon-neutrality. Don’t know how much more blatant you can get with this crap.

    Really, man- two words: “Red State.” You’ll be much happier there. Hell, it’ll be like a second home.

  210. 210
    William Hurley says:

    Apologists are made of stuff more malleable than Flubber! I suspect that stuff is a petroleum product – given the noxious emissions they produce.

    How many US citizens – or fellow global citizens – will become sick, infirm or die over the next 2 to 3 decades the clipped column’s author states it will take to hit real improvements in CAFE? 1,000,000? More? Less? What’s the cost/benefit analysis that makes it worthwhile in your mind?

    Besides, 1,000,000 people injured by this President is now mundane as it’s all to common. Ask the Latino, Chicano, Hispanic community if you have doubts.

  211. 211
    Uriel says:

    @Darnell From LA: Or, what this guy said. To the ^2. And don’t worry- I’m sure it’s been bookmarked.

  212. 212
    magurakurin says:

    @Darnell From LA:
    well played, Darnell, well played.

    not that it will bother Corner Stone. He could give a shit what you say about him. This is that guys life… trolling this blog. Now, THAT’S sad.

  213. 213
  214. 214
    William Hurley says:

    If only Osborne, or those cherry-picking affirmations in service of hope against fact, had more of a grasp of the substance of this latest O-Fail.

    “Anti-soot policy can solve 15% climate change within decade”

    The OK to O-Cave puts the attainability of a tangible benefit, realized in 1/3 or better the timeline Osborne celebrates, is now and forever off-the-table.

    Invest in pharma working emphysema and other lung disease remedies.

  215. 215
    NR says:

    @Linda Featheringill:

    3. However, even if the science does not support Obama’s suspension/postponement of these particular regulations, it’s not like he was committing a crime against humanity. I mean, it’s not like he acted like Charlie Manson or something. Chill.

    Um….

    The EPA, however, pointed out that the smog rule could have saved as much as $100bn in health costs, and could prevent as many as 12,000 premature deaths from heart and lung complications caused by Ozone, which poses higher health risks than previously thought.

    12,000 people is way, way more than Charles Manson killed.

  216. 216
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Darnell From LA:

    It’s not working because you are trying to communicate with a Texan who voted for McCain/Palin. This quote from CS to you says it all:

    “You aren’t educating shit.”

    I’ll give CS credit for being right about that; you can’t teach shit anything.

    @Darnell From LA:

    Excellent baiting of the hook…lol! You fucking nailed that racist shithead to the wall.

    Kudos. :)

  217. 217
    dogwood says:

    @NR:

    12,000 people is way, way more than Charles Manson killed.

    Just stop. When you hate any political figure so much that you compare him or her unfavorably to a narcissistic serial killer, it’s time to take a break.

  218. 218
    Halcyan says:

    @Jade Jordan:

    Yes, you would have been proud of your vote for McCain/Palin.

  219. 219
    Marc says:

    @178: Why doesn’t this crap earn Cornerstone a ban? Is there even the slightest evidence that the person he was responding to even mentioned race?

    We’re getting an increasing level of outright hatemongering in the comments here. This has to be dealt with.

  220. 220
    Chris says:

    @Sly:

    The Teamsters endorsed Reagan in 1980 and 1984 and it didn’t exactly work out well for them.

    Well, that’s ironic. For all their pissing and moaning about those scary, nasty “union thugs,” turns out Jimmy Hoffa’s mob-infiltrated union was actually one of the few that endorsed Republican candidates.

    Go figure.

  221. 221
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Marc:

    I do have to laugh that ol’ CS tucked tail and split after being called out by Darnell from LA…lol! It’s nice that someone was able to shut that fuckwit up for once. I know that CS will soon be back crowing about how nothing was proven and how we are all the racists, but the short reprieve from a good example of what’s wrong with Texas is fine by me.

    John could give us a longer break and I do think it’s warranted after #178, but that’s his decision to make.

  222. 222
    Sly says:

    @Chris:

    Well, that’s ironic. For all their pissing and moaning about those scary, nasty “union thugs,” turns out Jimmy Hoffa’s mob-infiltrated union was actually one of the few that endorsed Republican candidates.

    And it was Jackie Presser who pushed for the endorsements the hardest.

  223. 223
    Ben Wolf says:

    It says something about the state of the Democratic party that so many within it express hostility to “the left”: one need only peruse the comments here to see repeated examples of “fuck the left” and “did I make you angry you pro-left goon?”. Any Republican operative reading these comments is, I assure you, rubbing their hands with glee at confirming over forty years of economic and political warfare have finally eviscerated the one threat to total conservative dominance of the country; the traditional role of the left in allying with and defending the interests of the common man.

    “The left” so hated by Republicans and apparently also hated by liberals no longer effectively exists in the U.S. If purging its last remnants from the Democratic Party helps win elections then by all means let’s keep doing it, but we shouldn’t have any illusions over what those victories ultimately mean: the right won.

  224. 224
    dogwood says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: You know maybe CS is really that Harriet Christiansen broad from the DNC meeting in 2008. Like CS she loved Hillary, voted McCain /Palin and seemed to find black people “inadequate.” Two peas in a pod.

  225. 225
    Chris says:

    @Ben Wolf:

    “The left” so hated by Republicans and apparently also hated by liberals no longer effectively exists in the U.S. If purging its last remnants from the Democratic Party helps win elections then by all means let’s keep doing it, but we shouldn’t have any illusions over what those victories ultimately mean: the right won.

    “The left” was purged decades ago, specifically during the Red Scare years after World War Two. And it was mostly liberals like Walter Reuther and Hubert Humphrey who led the charge, purging unions, machines and politics in general of anything that felt too radical. Liberalism having gone mainstream, the New Deal having addressed many of the radicals’ concerns, and Communism being the new Main Enemy, it made sense at the time.

    Not disagreeing, just pointing out that this happened long, long, long ago. Aside from maybe fifty years from the late nineteenth to mid twentieth century, there’s never been a left in the United States.

  226. 226
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Ben Wolf:

    the right won.

    I do not think that your conclusion necessarily follows. Liberals and leftists are both left of center groups, and, in the context of recent spats, the disagreement between the two groups has been over tactics: how much incrementalism is appropriate, when is fighting and losing in order to prove a point more important than keeping one’s powder dry, etc.. I think that these are questions that are worth an argument-even one that becomes quite heated.

  227. 227
    grandpajohn says:

    @Sam Houston: Well there is always hope. Shit I voted for Goldwater in 64. sometimes with age comes wisdom.

  228. 228
    dogwood says:

    @Ben Wolf:

    I think you’re being a bit disingenuous here. The Left is as hostile to the Democratic party as many Democrats are to them. From the onset of this administration the Left decided to turn its energy toward criticizing the president, his cabinet, advisors etc. That’s their right; it’s the tactic they’ve chosen and they are passionate about it. Many Democrats would rather turn that energy toward bashing republicans. So it’s not surprising these groups are at odds. When you can’t agree on who the enemy is, it’s pretty hard to fight together for your shared goals.

  229. 229
    Duh rock no balls at all bama says:

    Remind me again what the White House got from the Republicans in exchange for telling their EPA to stuff their considered opinion?

    I could snark “Does anybody over at the White House know how to play this game?” but it obvious that they do. What they don’t know is which team they’re suppose to be playing for.

    Just switch parties and lets get on with it.

  230. 230
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Duh rock no balls at all bama: It was Democrats who wanted this. Of course, you probably already knew this.

  231. 231
    dogwood says:

    @Duh rock no balls at all bama:

    Remind me again what the White House got from the Republicans in exchange for telling their EPA to stuff their considered opinion?

    He didn’t get anything from Republicans. It was Democrats up for reelection like Sherrod Brown who wanted this.

    Sorry Omnes; you beat me to it. And I’m sure Mr. Noballs knows this.

  232. 232
    Duh rock no balls at all bama says:

    “it was Democrats..”
    So what.
    Remind me again what they got from the Republicans.

  233. 233
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Duh rock no balls at all bama: I should have guessed from your oh-so-clever ‘nym that you were hopeless.

  234. 234
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @dogwood:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: You know maybe CS is really that Harriet Christiansen broad from the DNC meeting in 2008. Like CS she loved Hillary, voted McCain /Palin and seemed to find black people “inadequate.” Two peas turds in a pod toilet.

    Fix’t.

    Yup.

  235. 235
    frapalinger says:

    @Belafon (formerly anonevent):

    It really is lousy having a president that won’t act like Bush, isn’t it?

    Yeah, it is. Bush ruined the fucking nation (or realized Reagan’s dream of ruining it), but he knew how to play politics. From the day the towers collapsed until he won in 2004, he was giving some fucking stump speech or another every single day. He controlled the debate, and yes, the media helped him do it in a way they have never helped Obama. But Obama hasn’t worked hard to cultivate public opinion. His strategy has been to give one big speech on a topic (usually after public opinion has moved away from his position) rather than to beat a constant drum. This guy is a gifted fucking speaker and he seems to be listening to the villager bullshit that he shouldn’t talk to much. I’m sorry to be so goddamn critical, but I’ve fucking had it.

  236. 236
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @frapalinger: Oh bullshit.

  237. 237
    cleek says:

    @frapalinger:
    there isn’t a single true statement in any of what you wrote there: not about Bush, not about Obama. not about their respective speaking schedules, nor the content of their speeches. nor did Bush control the debate, nor does Obama not work hard to cultivate public opinion.

    you are pretty much completely off the mark on every single thing you wrote. yet 2 minutes with Google could correct every single misconception you’re apparently laboring under. so… was that just a troll?

  238. 238
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Ben Wolf:

    It says something about the state of the Democratic party that so many within it express hostility to “the left”

    It also says something about the state of “the left” that the once-proud label has been coopted by a bunch of all-talk macho-posturing wishful-thinking people in comment sections on blogs, whose idea of effective activism oscillates between web-form petitions and attempts to use the word “corporatist” that would embarrass a high school kid trying to impress college girls at the indie coffeehouse.

  239. 239
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @frapalinger: The way I remember Bush, he was smashing records for vacation days taken per year.

  240. 240
    dogwood says:

    @frapalinger:

    Bush wasn’t much of a politician. He had a compliant Congress. Without 9-11 he would have been gone in 2004, and he barely squeaked that out. I’ve lived through 12 presidents and W was personally the most unremarkable of the lot. He was the poster boy for mediocre.

  241. 241
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @dogwood:

    He had a compliant Congress.

    What’s worse, he had a lot of compliant _Democrats_ in Congress.

  242. 242
    wrb says:

    @Ben Wolf:

    It says something about the state of the Democratic party that so many within it express hostility to “the left”

    There is a genuine problem with lables. There is a fragment of the left or liberals that is hostile to those on the left left and liberals who support the administration and believe in focusing on getting things done rather than ineffectual posturing and magical thinking. This fragment tray to claim “left” and “liberal” for themselves.

    That leave two possibilities when talking with them. The first involves ceding the labels to them. Then you get people who are actually of the left or liberal, criticizing “the left” when they only mean the subset, and confusion results.

    The alternative is to come up with a new more precise term, that will allow conversation without confusion. Firebagger, emoprog, daddyprog are all attempts at this. There are drawbacks to each of those, but it seems that some such label is needed.

  243. 243
    dogwood says:

    @frapalinger:

    I’m sorry to be so goddamn critical, but I’ve fucking had it.

    Nothing wrong with being critical but don’t make shit up to make your point. Bush was a lousy communicator. A year and a half into a war after a terrorist attack, with low unemployment and he barely wins re-election? The truth is with the nightly news, cable, the internet etc., presidents are ubiquitous. Most people tune a lot of it out. People listen to their neighbors and friends when it comes to politics. Telling your low information coworker who likes and trusts you that you’ve “fucking had it” will do more to influence his vote than what the president says on a daily basis.

  244. 244
    wrb says:

    @wrb:
    Thinking further on labels:

    Firebagger seems the worst, as it gives unearned prominence to a certain website.

    However drawing the connection to their mirror image on the right seems useful. Perhaps “partier” would be more neutral than “bagger.”

    I think “emo” and “daddy” do nail defining characteristics, however they are inflammatory, and should perhaps be saved for when inflaming is the goal.

    Magical thinking is another characteristic.

    Perhaps “magicalpartiers”

    Dunno. Some label is needed in order to communicate. It doesn’t need to be inflammatory, but should describe them accurately.

  245. 245
    Bruce S says:

    Frankensteinbeck – There is nothing in this piece posted, nor in the full link, that makes a political argument about this ruling. No evidence that Sherrod Brown or anyone else needed this from the White House. Maybe Sherrod Brown’s concern – and others in similiar position – is behind the decision. But your objection – and dredging up the “emobaggers” crap when you don’t have shit on the merits of this decision itself – is your own knee-jerk hostility to anyone who doesn’t think the White House is always right on everything and that it’s some sort of betrayal to think independently of Obama and his insider advisors. This is a pathology. If ABL wants to post an article that explains the decision in terms of Democratic party politics and why it’s useful to make sure that Senators like Sherrod Brown get re-elected, she should do so. I haven’t seen it. So don’t act like people are idiots – or that the fact that the emissions standards go back to worse levels than Bush mandated is “small potatoes.” The fact is that objections to this ruling aren’t some “progressive freakout” but spurred by the folks who do the work and follow the science. The American Lung Association – or Think Progress, which I actually follow as opposed to the blather blogs like Kos – aren’t some reservoir of “online outrage” for the sake of self-gratification in service of fixed resentments. I’d love to read a good piece explaining the context for this decision more persuasively than “he’s done a lot of other things and ozone isn’t very important.” I doubt that is what went through Obama’s head because he’s not an idiot. So if we’re all supposed to rally around some “adult” conversation, let’s have it. This post was lame at best. Kind of insulting to Obama, frankly. Insofar as there was a useful point, it was buried in the obvious intent to demean any dissenters – because it totally ignored the fact that environomentalists uniformly raised concerns about this ruling, pretending that it was all about people who have some old bone to pick with Obama and that the ruling itself reflected “good policy.” There wasn’t a political argument in this thing that wasn’t rooted in generalizations unhinged from any evidence.

    Here, incidentally, for anyone interested in considering the arguments made by serious people who have a stake in the issue beyond calling people names online is Sherrod Brown’s position in objecting to the EPA ruling (PDF at link):

    http://thehill.com/blogs/e2-wi.....mate-rules

    And here’s Krugman’s take on why this is a bad decision on the economics alone (with Krugman’s predictable snark at Obama in the first lines, before he gets to what is a serious argument):

    http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c.....-and-jobs/

    (Incidentally, while I have not been impressed with the quality of Krugman’s characterizations of Obama since back in ’08 when he referred to people like me as a member of a “cult”, folks who think he’s a total idiot when it comes to politics should check his comments yesterday on This Week, in which he and Jared Bernstein ran circles around the GOP hack Holtz-Eakin, and put forward some very saavy suggestions for the President’s jobs speech, given the political context. Not pie-in-the-sky at all. Unfortunately, while he’s not at the bizarre Cornel West/Tavis Smiley levels of self-regard – and actually has extremely useful expertise to impart, unlike that duo – it’s a fact IMHO that Krugman has some sort of ego-driven issue with Obama that goes beyond cold calculations of an economist arguing “best policy.” Jared Bernstein generally offers the same policy advice as Krugman but manages to put the actually-existing White House in better context, presumably because he’s been there for more than roast beef with Joe Stiglitz. That said, I think that Obama would not necesssarily be better served by Krugman if he had managed to “keep him close”, maybe by giving him the David Brooks treatment by top White House aides. In Krugman’s case it’s probably politically useful to the White House to have a “shrill” critic at the New York Times who has more credibility than Maureen Dowd.)

  246. 246
    xian says:

    .
    .

    Does this bullshit set anyone else’s teeth on edge?

    .
    .

  247. 247
    ABL says:

    A combination of 159 and 178 earns our resident troll a time out.

  248. 248
    Mnemosyne says:

    @xian:

    .

    .

    Not since I got cleek’s pie filter. Now UCT only makes amusing comments about pie, and they omit the pompously extraneous punctuation, too.

    .

    .

  249. 249
    ABL says:

    @Mnemosyne: the pie filer saved my life. i only see certain people’s bs when other people quote it. in this case, i’m quite pleased with the result.

  250. 250
    NR says:

    @dogwood: I don’t hate Obama at all. And all I did was point out the facts of the situation. If those facts are inconvenient for some people, well, that’s too bad.

  251. 251
    ciaran says:

    @xian:
    is there actually anything obama could do that abl would condemn. abl this is a genuine question. like what are your red lines?

  252. 252
    xian says:

    @ciaran what the fuck are you asking me for?

  253. 253
    NR says:

    @ciaran: At this point, it’s safe to say that Obama could eat a baby on live television, and ABL and others here would immediately post about how it was a very bad baby, and deserving of being eaten. And anyway, Obama only did it because he had to! The Republicans and political circumstance forced him to eat the baby! Also, too, the real story isn’t that Obama ate a baby, the real story is that people at FDL and DKos complained about it! Fucking useless emo-proggers, do they want to give us President Perry?!?!?!

  254. 254
    Not Sure says:

    Real world answer to the question of tractor-trailer mileage, from Yahoo! Answers:

    I have a 2000 Volvo with a 425 hp volvo engine and a 13 speed tranny with no overdrive gear, I’ve got a bit of a heavy foot but I can average 7.2 mpg. Other things that can vary that besides my heavy foot are; wind, rain and cold. All of which can bring the average down.

    Still, the trucking industry, if it doesn’t already, should be taking a keen interest in things like hybrid technology. Given that the additional cost is probably a lot less than for a passenger car, when taken as a function of the price of your average big rig, it’s a no-brainer. That goes for the Department of Defense, probably the largest single consumer of petroleum in the world, as well.

  255. 255
    ciaran says:

    @xian:
    ok that came off weird. im a little tired! i guess i was mentally agreeing with you(and i meant to make a comment to that effect!) but the question was for abl.

  256. 256
    wrb says:

    @Not Sure:

    They are</a.

    BAE & Cat are offering a hybrid system. They are using a Cat transmission, and Cat is offering them in their heavy trucks. Don’t know about others.

    Cat is shipping a hybrid D-7 dozer

  257. 257
    Bruce S says:

    More on the politics, for anyone who actually cares about politics beyond the level of petty commissar trolling the net for outrage on which to vent umbrage:

    I’m trying to imagine this from the White House’s perspective. Let’s say top officials were convinced by business interests that the smog rules really would undermine short-term job growth. There are many with more familiarity with environmental policy who can speak to this with more authority than I can, but for the sake of conversation, let’s assume the White House was genuinely convinced that these stricter ozone standards would be bad for the economy right now.

    Let’s also say that the White House has become obsessed with looking for ways — any ways — to give the job market a boost, and practically all other considerations have been deemed suspect, at least for now. If I were drawing up a list of considerations that probably take precedence over unemployment, I’d probably put “the ability to breathe clean air” pretty close to the top, but again, for the sake of conversation, let’s assume the West Wing’s focus on jobs has become all-consuming.

    Even if we make these assumptions, the policy still has a dramatic, strategic flaw.

    President Obama is going to deliver a big speech on the economy on Thursday, and in the weeks that follow, there will presumably be at least some talks between Democrats and Republicans about job-creating ideas. Democratic leaders, in both the White House and Congress, will be pushing for things like infrastructure investments, and Republicans will be pushing for measures like weakening/eliminating environmental regulations.

    With this in mind, even if West Wing officials sincerely believed these ozone standards would be bad the job market, why not keep this realization close to their chest, and then trade it to Republicans in exchange for something else? Why not use the rules as a bargaining chip?

    Yesterday, GOP leaders were only too pleased to applaud the White House’s decision (which, as a rule, reinforces the notion that the policy move was dreadful). But I suspect Republicans were pleased, not only because of the weaker environmental standard, but also because they didn’t have to give up anything in return.

  258. 258
    ciaran says:

    @NR:
    personally i could see that happening to! :)

  259. 259
    sherifffruitfly says:

    Darnell FTW!

  260. 260
    aisce says:

    @ wrb

    i can only conclude that you are unable to read what you type, and are simply producing readable text through the mother of all anomalous luck, or else you’d have to be able to realize what a jackass you’re being.

    “magicalpartiers?” are you three years old? why don’t you just start calling them meanypoopyheads?

  261. 261
    xian says:

    ciaran, no worries. I think abl is just a partisan, which is ok. partisan assumes their team leader is doing their best, given the available alternatives and consequences of each choice.

  262. 262
    Admiral_Komack says:

    @Darnell From LA:

    Thank you.
    I think that’s going to leave a mark.

  263. 263
    HG Hay says:

    You tell those emo prog EPA scientists and that professional left American Lung Association!

  264. 264
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Admiral_Komack:

    It did, as per the link below.

    @ABL:

    I hope CS takes this time out and … aaaw fuck, you know all he will be doing is preparing for his speech for his triumphant return. In the meantime, I will enjoy a Corner Stone-free hangout.

    I’m sure that he will be demanding an apology from John and ABL once he gets back in. There’s that Texas-sized pride he has to deal with and that’s too damned big for any Texan to swallow.

  265. 265
    JenJen says:

    Wow. Late to the party but did Corner Stone run away? Good.

    Thank you, Darnell from LA.

  266. 266
    AA+ Bonds says:

    @Darnell From LA:

    Well, I heard about the bill from the NRDC, which is incidentally the organization quoted (on another topic completely) in the piece above.

  267. 267
    Crza says:

    With one post Darnell From LA has upped the readability of the comments on BJ by about 5,000,000%. That’s pretty awesome.

  268. 268
    AA+ Bonds says:

    I’m just glad that this is now the Age of Trolls here and literally no one can deny it and especially not the front-pagers.

    This is . . . this is a beautiful day.

  269. 269
    JGabriel says:

    @NR:

    At this point, it’s safe to say that Obama could eat a baby on live television, and ABL and others here would immediately post about how it was a very bad baby, and deserving of being eaten.

    Well, if it was a Republican baby …

    .

  270. 270
    Marginalized for stating documented facts says:

    @cleek:

    there isn’t a single true statement in any of what you wrote there: not about Bush, not about Obama. not about their respective speaking schedules, nor the content of their speeches. nor did Bush control the debate, nor does Obama not work hard to cultivate public opinion.

    On the contrary. Everything frapalinger said is provably true and exactly correct.

    you are pretty much completely off the mark on every single thing you wrote. yet 2 minutes with Google could correct every single misconception you’re apparently laboring under. so… was that just a troll?

    Classic scam, cleek. You make the baseless and clearly false claim that “2 minutes with Google could correct every single misconception you’re apparently laboring under,” yet you refuse to take those trivial 2 minutes to whip up all those mythical google results that would prove once and for all you’re not spouting bullshit.

    It’s the old con job, cleek, and you’re just…not…doing it right. You need to inject more contemptuous snark: “It is left as an exercise for the feebleminded to track down all the errors in his claims…”

    We’re supposed to overlook the clear and simple fact that you haven’t provided a single piece of evidence to back up any of your baseless and provably claims, cleek.

    Yeah, there’s a reason why you invented the pie filter, kiddo. So you can avoid having to read people who debunk your vacuous and comprehensively false claims.

  271. 271
    Another Bob says:

    It’s sad to see ABL and the Obots going all Bill O’Reilly on CS’s ass. I thought this was a liberal blog, not a circle-jerk for people who pretend to have delicate sensibilities to cover up their underlying pettiness.

  272. 272
    different church-lady says:

    @Ben Wolf:

    Any Republican operative reading these comments is, I assure you, rubbing their hands with glee at confirming over forty years of economic and political warfare have finally eviscerated the one threat to total conservative dominance of the country; the traditional role of the left in allying with and defending the interests of the common man.

    Any Republican operative reading these comments is thinking, “Wow, it’s just like a mirror image of what we have to deal with from the Tea Party.”

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