This Mess We’re In

This asinine, silly, childish snit and clusterfuck over scheduling of Obama’s speech on jobs shows that John Boehner is a utter dick, or that the Obama administration is hopelessly naive and John Boehner is an utter dick. I guess I’m pretty sure about the dick part, the rest is kind of grey.

218 replies
  1. 1
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    went a little crazy with the tags, I see.

  2. 2
    SRW1 says:

    Did clicking all the categories this was posted in take you longer than composing the text of the comment?

  3. 3
    OzoneR says:

    It also shows no one is even remotely interested in talking about jobs, except perhaps the administration.

  4. 4
    Oliver says:

    LMAO

    What kind of outcome did you expect given the dick currently sitting in the White House?

  5. 5
    Oliver says:

    LMAO

    What kind of outcome did you expect given the dick currently sitting in the White House?

  6. 6
    Steve says:

    Wow, the tags!

  7. 7
    mistermix says:

    @SRW1: Yes.

  8. 8
    pablo says:

    The “Boner ‘Dick'” speaks.

    tags (awaiting the wrath of Cole)

  9. 9
    Skipjack says:

    I’m going to forgive Boehner exercising his prerogative on this one. There are members of Congress competing for the Republican nomination and they wouldn’t be able to be at the Joint Address. They could have blocked it individually themselves with their own abilities as MoC. Suggesting the next day is actually a fair return, even if it does hurt Obama by having it the same day as the start of the NFL season.

    Everyone would rather watch football, myself included, and no doubt Obama too.

  10. 10
    japa21 says:

    Let m get this straight. Obama goes to Boehner, et al, and it is agreed that the original date is fine. The President announces he would like to make a speech to Congress on September 7, for which he requires a formal invite. Boehner gets flak from Limbaugh and comes up with some weird excuse about why it can’t be then. The WH can’t do anything about it because a formal invite is required.

    Yes it shows a) Boehner is a dick, b) Limbaugh is an ever bigger (in all ways) diick, c) the Republicans really don’t care about jobs, but tell me how is shows the WH is naive.

  11. 11
    bleh says:

    Just another unforced error by the WH.

    They both look bad, except that Boehner looks like the man to his adolescent base (and their fangirlz in the Village media).

    And nobody will watch Obama. They’ll rock back on their La-Z-Boys, watch the game, and grumble about Washington politicians not fixing the job problem.

    At some point, Obama’s gonna hafta start chucking throwing-stars and chopping off heads…

  12. 12
    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937 says:

    So Boehner agreed to Wednesday originally then received a new a**hole courtesy of the wing nuts (i.e. the Cantor crowd) so he changes his mind. I thought oranges rolled, I didn’t know they flip flopped. Maybe Boehner is more of a salmon than a fruit.

  13. 13
    4tehlulz says:

    Needs more tags.

  14. 14
    PeakVT says:

    The city sunset over me…

  15. 15
    Anya says:

    Wow, I see we have a tag-a-palooza but do “OBAMA IS WORSE THAN BUSH HE SOLD US OUT!!” and the Jenna Bush tag really belong in this post.

    Also, boner is a disrespectful dick, but Daley shouldn’t have picked the wingnut MSNBC crazy night. For anyone paying attention at this point (does anyone pay attention to politics before Labor Day), it just highlights that the congress is on holiday, no?

  16. 16
    Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . . says:

    My God! It’s full of tags!

    /Starchild

  17. 17
    RoonieRoo says:

    Boehner is a dick but the WH was naive. How many times does Lucy have to pull the football away until the WH learns that Boehner will be a dick? Honest to Pete. I don’t blame Obama. I blame whoever his damn press advisers are that once again waltzed obligingly into it. Wasn’t the debate date set BEFORE they asked for this? Could nobody see they were stepping in front of another GOP messaging train?

  18. 18
    barath says:

    There are deeper fundamental issues at play here.

    1. The current downturn / recession was projected in advance – and was known late last year / early this year to those watching oil prices:

    http://www.econbrowser.com/arc.....about.html

    2. ECRI, which has been the best and most sober in analyzing economic trends forecasted this using other metrics (e.g. they correctly said mid last year, when everyone was crowing about double dip that we weren’t going to double dip then), are saying that there’s basically nothing Obama can do at this point to affect the jobs situation before the election. I agree. These cycles are slow and have to play out.

    http://www.creditwritedowns.co.....-jobs.html

    3. The problem is that this is a fundamental dynamic and there’s no awareness at the national level. The only thing Obama could have done is actually tried to make the downturn happen sooner. (One easy way would have been to initiate a massive oil drilling moratorium immediately after deepwater horizon, causing a strong spike in oil prices. This would have made the downturn start around Q1 of this year and be done by around now, with a recovery coinciding with the election.)

  19. 19
    schlemizel - was Alwhite says:

    we have known Boner was a dick for quite some time but I think we were all hoping Obama was not the wet noodle incapable of learning from previous experience that he appears to be.

    BTW – can we get MORE categories? Soon that list will be longer than the posts!

  20. 20
    damn good mr jam says:

    One thing’s for sure–no one will be talking about this tomorrow.

  21. 21
    jwest says:

    Japa21,

    If you’re going to the trouble of getting something straight, you should get it straight.

    Obama announced to the press that he was going to give a speech to a joint session of congress on the same night as the Republican debate before talking with Boehner. He knew full well that the debate was scheduled (the White House actually has people who look into these type of things) but he wanted to “step” on debate.

    He expected the media to back him up and portray Republicans as petty if they didn’t agree, but it didn’t turn out that way. Another miscalculation by the Stuttering Clusterfuck of a Miserable Failure.

  22. 22
    Chinn Romney says:

    The Big O should ask if he can borrow ABL’s balls. I realize they’re in constant use, but I suspect she’ll go for it.

  23. 23
    Alex S. says:

    Well, Obama’s speech is supposed to do two things: to change the trajectory of the campaign from deficits to jobs, and to contrast the White House point of view with the republican one. The White House needed media attention to do the former, so this kerfuffle is somewhat useful. To do the latter, the republican debate and the speech just had to be close to each other, the day before or after…it doesn’t matter. But I hope that the White House was prescient enough to see that Boehner would not accept that first date, he couldn’t. So this new date is a good compromise, even though it looks as if Obama caved again. And funny how the eternally frustrated part of the base is annoyed that the White House, for once, took the risky approach and settled for a compromise. Some people really want a dictatorship.

  24. 24
    Disco says:

    I don’t care what Obama has to say. Whatever the words, capitulation to Republicans will be the result.

    And as a diehard Packers fan, you better believe I’m god damn watching them clobber the Saints.

  25. 25
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    @PeakVT:

    This Mess We’re In, PJ Harvey and Thom Yorke

  26. 26
    Citizen_X says:

    With all those tags, how did you miss “Black Jimmy Carter”?

  27. 27
    geg6 says:

    @bleh:

    What the fuck are you talking about, “unforced error?”

    Do you read anything at all or are you just stupid?

    It was not an unforced error. It was rudeness to the black man in ways that infuriate me and, probably, anyone whose ethnicity or gender or sexual orientation has ever led to them being marginalized by assholes like Boehner.

    Oh, and you.

  28. 28
    lacp says:

    If it was really so much trouble getting the House together by the 7th, why not move the date to the following week? Moving the speech to NFL opening night is a very dickish play by the orange guy.

  29. 29
    Samara Morgan says:

    i have a new category for you mistermix

    send my glibertarian rentboi some pageclicks at Forbes!

  30. 30
    geg6 says:

    @RoonieRoo:

    Wasn’t the debate date set BEFORE they asked for this?

    Yes. Why, yes, it was. And so was the agreement from Boehner that the date was not a problem. And, apparently, NBC agreed to move the time of the debate. So, no problem, right?

    People can’t read.

  31. 31
    geg6 says:

    @jwest:

    And, as usual, you are fucking liar.

  32. 32
    Mark S. says:

    As I said last night, if Bush decided to speak in front of Congress the same night as a scheduled Democratic debate, we’d all be calling him a dick for doing that.

  33. 33
    singfoom says:

    Maybe Boehner’s being a dick, but jesus, people, do we really need to have the vapors about the scheduling of a speech?

    I hope the republic is able to overcome this incredible challenge.

  34. 34
    Duh rock no balls at all bama says:

    Don’t call my bluff!

  35. 35
    Comrade Javamanphil says:

    Congressional historians believe this was the first time ever a presidential request for a joint session was refused. But Bob Schieffer says both sides are to blame (as does Steve Sagal and the rest of the NPR bunch) so onward down the spiral of empire decline we go.

  36. 36
    AlphaLiberal says:

    This one was not worth fighting over. Fine call by President Obama. He has way more important things to attend to.

  37. 37
    Samara Morgan says:

    @lacp: i dunno…maybe Obama is just ruining the GOP’s NFL game night.
    Afterall they will have to be at work.
    it was their choice.

    if O had spoken first and then the GOP clown car posse unloaded, all they would do is rave about Obama and how his plan couldn’t possibly work instead of the steel cage death match between Romney and Perry we are all dying to see…
    Why give the republicans a podium to demagogue the contents of his jobs speech?

  38. 38

    @jwest:

    Another miscalculation by the Stuttering Clusterfuck of a Miserable Failure.

    Then why do you and your firebagging buddies keep posting stuttering clusterfuck comments. It only makes you look miserable and like racist republican failures.

  39. 39
    WyldPirate says:

    @geg6:

    And, as usual, you are fucking liar.

    And as usual, you are a sniveling Obamabot apologist.

    Obama needs to grow a pair, or borrow a set from ABL as someone suggested. He continually gets punked by the Rethugs and looks weak and ineffectual.

  40. 40
    Mark S. says:

    @lacp:

    why not move the date to the following week?

    Why not? It’s not like they’re going to pass anything like fiscal stimulus that would actually lower unemployment, because we’ve got to tighten our belts and balance our budget like families do.

    See what happens when you cede the rhetorical ground to your opponents?

  41. 41

    @WyldPirate:

    Obama needs to grow a pair, or borrow a set from ABL as someone suggested. He continually gets punked by the Rethugs and looks weak and ineffectual.

    You are a sick puppy, wildypirate, and I can’t believe they let you teach young people anything, or even be in the same room with them.

  42. 42
    Amir Khalid says:

    @japa21:
    Seconded.

    John Böhner’s dickishness is already beyond question. Is the White House at fault for believing him when he said September 7 was OK? When he said that they had no idea, and no real reason to believe, he would go back on his word. If they had said out of the blue, “We don’t believe you”, then they would have been the dicks.

    As things stand, the White House should flay Böhner for this, whether he did it of his own accord or was persuaded into it by someone else. No more Mister Nice Guy: Böhner and his party just don’t deserve it.

  43. 43
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    This is such a nothingburger of a story.

  44. 44

    The idea of having an open forum blog with few standards of conduct, and rare bannings, is a noble one. In reality, you end up with whackjobs and perverts turning comment sections into laboratories for pathos.

  45. 45
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Oliver: I see Oliver’s jokes are almost at the level of my six year old.

  46. 46
    Suffern ACE says:

    Everything that’s wrong with everything else summed up nicely. A pseudo political scandal led by millionaire empty heads who run evertying and ruin everything. What Jenna Bush would do is ask someone to hold her hair while she vomitted on the mass of them…if she had any decency.

  47. 47
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Comrade Javamanphil: “we” are not in decline, just evolving. White (NHC) christian America is in decline.
    The real problem for the GOP is the Minority Majority.

    The U.S. has long been on its way toward becoming what demographers call a “majority minority” country — where whites of European ancestry make up less than 50% of the population. Between 2000 and 2010, minorities accounted for 98% of the population growth in large metropolitan areas. This rapid expansion has caused big shifts in racial composition: Between 1990 and 2010, the share of the white population in big metropolitan areas fell to 57% from 71%.
    __
    But virtually all of that shift has taken place in big metro areas, according Mr. Frey’s report. Growth in Hispanic and Asian populations — which together accounted for 60% of population growth over the decade — was especially concentrated.

    that is the real reason for conservative craziness, white christian nativism, and the 2010 midterms. Rural America is nearly purely Distributed Jesusland. And that means the GOP will likely never win another presidential election.
    This is pretty much their last chance, when the economy is in the crapper.

  48. 48
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @General Stuck: Well, you know, what with us having an imperial presidency and all.

  49. 49
    Samara Morgan says:

    @General Stuck: and front pagers that farm clicks for their friends and glibertarian rent bois and emoprogs.
    :)

  50. 50
    harlana says:

    Chuckie Todd is very upset about “both sides doing it”

  51. 51
    jwest says:

    General Stuck,

    I would vote for this Stuttering Clusterfuck (even though he’s a Black Stuttering Clusterfuck) if he use his speech to announce two new programs – one conservative and one socialist.

    The conservative change would be eliminating income, social security and Medicare taxes and replacing them with the Fair Tax Plan.

    The socialist change would be a trillion dollar stimulus plan to build 500 nuclear reactors over the next five years to provide nearly free electrical power to businesses and individuals.

    Do this and Obama can count on me going door to door for his reelection.

  52. 52
    Nemesis says:

    Will there be goopers in the room while Obama discusses jobs?

    If so, expect another “You lie” moment. Why?

    Because it works to shift the media narrative away from jobs and back onto personalities. The networks love this shit.

    The gop bastards are always searching for ways to disrespect Mr Obama.

  53. 53
    arguingwithsignposts says:

    @Samara Morgan: I have a suggestion for a new tag: Designated FP stalker thread for m_c to shit all over.

  54. 54
    Anya says:

    @General Stuck: wildypirate is a teacher? No wonder our education system is in such state.

  55. 55
    Lysana says:

    I love how the categories are longer than the post. No, seriously. It’s beautiful.

    And mark me down as in the “why are we even arguing this and would the cipher racist and pseudo-liberal assholes claiming it’s more proof the not-so-magic Negro’s a weakling because he isn’t Samuel L. Jackson crossed with Morgan Freeman just shut the fuck up already?” camp.

  56. 56
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    I wasn’t expecting the speech to do much, but seriously, did Obama just actually get successfully bitchslapped by Boehner? Obama actually backed away and cried ‘no mas’ just because Boehner gladhanded him in private, then backhanded him in public?

    Fuck all, this may be manufactured as an issue, but fuck all, show some goddamn spine.

  57. 57
    Anya says:

    Are Oliver, jwest and the rest of the vulgarians, wingnuts or “true progressives”? It’s hard to tell these days since both camps use the same memes and direct the same insults at the President.

  58. 58
    YellowDog says:

    Whether this dustup was intentional on the part of the White House, it has two benefits. It helps reinforce the idea that the Republicans in Congress will not agree to anything proposed by this administration, even the scheduling of an address. In particular, if Boehner agreed to the schedule but had to backtrack, it makes 1) Boehner look weak or out of touch, 2) the Republicans in Congress appear out of control, or 3) both. It’s not a compelling argument, but Obama is a lawyer and knows about building a case and preponderance of evidence. The only way to beat the “both sides do it” meme is by showing at every opportunity that it is not true. On the heels of the Palin-O’Donnell scheduling debacle, this is also a reminder that the Republican party is full of divas who are unwilling to share the stage. Rescheduling the address also means that the “debate” will not focus on Obama’s speech. Yeah, there is the “Obama is weak and incompetent” nonsense, but it is spouted by the usual trolls who will not even admit that Obama can walk and chew gum at the same time.

  59. 59
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Amir Khalid: no, he doesnt.
    why pick a fight with Distributed Jesusland?
    He cant win.
    This is what is making the right crazy and its going to get worse.
    In the run-up to Nov 2012, the fear, anger, and hatred radiating from white christian America is is just going to ramp up.
    its their last chance, and they know it.

  60. 60
    danimal says:

    Scheduling this speech isChicago thug-style politics at their worst a total capitulation by the wimp in the Oval Office.

  61. 61
    danimal says:

    @Anya: There’s not a dimes worth of difference between them.

  62. 62
    Samara Morgan says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: if it will encourage mistermix to stop directing traffic to Kain and Forbes, i’ll totally support it.
    :)
    pretty soon Forbes is going to give Kain the hook.
    that will be a sweet, sweet day for me.

  63. 63
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Anya: they are emoprogs and firebaggers.

  64. 64
    El Cid says:

    Hidden in a Reuters story on Obama’s delay of the speech, I think this is quite significant:

    The Chamber of Commerce endorses the Keynesian (if you want to use this phrasing) point that we are in an economy weakened by a lack of demand, rather than some mythical fear by business of taxing and regulation, without which they’d finally be able to spend their cash expanding and hiring.

    Business lobby group the U.S. Chamber of Commerce said it was skeptical about a payroll tax holiday to subsidize companies that hire workers.
    __
    Companies don’t invest and hire people just because they have more cash,” said Martin Regalia, the group’s chief economist.
    __
    They hire people when they can put those people to work producing a product or a service that they can sell at a profit. That’s what they do. And right now the economy isn’t presenting that opportunity.”

    Remember to point this out repeatedly when hearing the right wing ‘pro-business’ bullshit about how ‘the problem ain’t demand, it’s the spendin’ / taxes / regulation / not knowin’.’

  65. 65
    ornry cur says:

    Ever notice the feeling of backing a winning football team is basically the same feeling Republicans attempt to generate by their ’empty’ posing, constant tough talk and faux-domination of politics?

    Well, you aren’t supposed to.

    Enjoy the Games, ‘murka.

  66. 66
    cleek says:

    @Anya:
    all pie lovers are equal, in the eyes of the lord.

  67. 67
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @El Cid:

    But how much of that is along the lines with the said same GOP ‘concerns’ over the payroll tax (in other words, long as Obama is fer it, they’re ag’in it)?

    This is why the chronic compromise, attempt to be the ‘adult in the room’ bullshit enrages me. Obama might come out on top next year personally, but it’ll still have the net effect of whatever policies we end up eating and choking on being even more right wing then ever, because of trying to hew to whatever mythical center the GOP gets to define because they keep lurching even more toward the crazy. And I say this of ALL Dems, not just Obama, because this fucking timid bullshit is chronic in the whole goddamn party. Obama’s just the only one that seems to barely rise above ‘absolutely loathed’, approval rating wise.

    Adult in the room only works when you can convince people that your opponents (and only your opponents) are crazy and dangerous. When you still end up with ‘both sides same thing’ stamped across everything even after trying to be the sensible man, maybe you should realize it’s NOT FUCKING WORKING.

  68. 68

    I have no problem dinging the administration, and Obama, if he okay’d the scheduling at the same time as the GOP debate. Regardless of what Boner agreed to. Because it was not a good idea. It was a mistake, and a very minor one with freaking scheduling. Going balls to the wall now, would have compounded that mistake ten fold, to stand pat on big footing a previously scheduled GOP debate.

    I hope this is my last comment on this stupid firebagger stoked “big capitulation” “again”, and all the other crypto racist bullshit from that crowd.

  69. 69
    Violet says:

    Here’s how it played on NPR this morning:

    “For the first time in history, a US President has asked to speak to Congress and been told no. President Obama asked to speak to Congress on Wednesday but Speaker John Boehner didn’t want the speech to interfere with the Republican presidential candidate debate and suggested Thursday as an alternative. The President agreed to Thursday. On Thursday, the President’s speech is going to bump up against the start of the NFL season, which likely means fewer viewers for the President’s speech.”

    They made a point of saying “first time in history” and “because of the Republican presidential candidate debate”. It made Boehner sound like a petty loser. But then they said that the President agreed to his demands, so it also made Obama sound like he doesn’t have a spine.

    So, that’s how it’s playing in one of the somewhat mainstream press organizations.

  70. 70
    mk3872 says:

    O! To have a Dem dickish version of Boehner to play President Perry’s foil for 4 years!

  71. 71
    cleek says:

    @ornry cur:
    now imagine you favor a team whose fans are split between those who want to root for the team and those who want to throw bottles at the team.

  72. 72
    Samara Morgan says:

    for those of you that im not pied for, this is the core problem in American politics today.
    The Disenfranchisement of “Real” America.

  73. 73
    handsmile says:

    Everything that Japa21 writes in the first paragraph of his/her above post (#10) may be true, but it’s completely irrelevant.

    Look how the story is being reported this morning by print and broadcast media: “Obama bows”; “Obama accedes’: “Obama caves.” That’s the headline. None of the fine print, none of the nuanced details of protocol between Congress and the Executive branch.

    The headlines reinforce the narrative of Obama as acquiescent and ineffectual. Obama’s purported “spinelessness” is being foregrounded here, not Boehner’s predictable dickishness. Narratives matter.

    And since every single one of the news reports mentions that Obama’s speech will be delivered on the opening night of the NFL season (because what could possibly be more important than bread and circuses), will he now be pressured to change the date yet again or to apologize to NFL and its viewing public?

    Perhaps someone here with more astute political insight could explain why this is a win or even a wash for the White House.

  74. 74
    Comrade Javamanphil says:

    @Samara Morgan: I wouldn’t assume that the emerging minority majority, especially Hispanics, are a lock for progressive politicians. And as long as the news keeps reporting politics as “both sides”, we can count on a non-trivial percent of the youth vote to be apathetic about politics and the choices they have.

  75. 75
    The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik says:

    @handsmile:

    This. Again, trying to play “adult in the room” is fine if you can get people to actually see it as sensibility. When you get ‘both sides same thing’ at best, and ‘Boehner is a REAL man, he got that silly fucking coward Obama to back down!!’ at worst, you have to realize that ‘adult in the room’ only makes you look like a putz. I’m not expecting Obama to go all firebrand and dropping hammers and shit. I just want some kind of fucking minimal pushback against this rather than almost purposefully feeding the idea of chronic compromise.

  76. 76
    MazeDancer says:

    @Samara Morgan:

    This is pretty much their last chance, when the economy is in the crapper.

    Michele Bachmann has said that. 2012 is it for the GOP. Not just to save the liberty-snuffing economy, and, of course, revive Caucasian Exceptionalism. But that they have to win, now, because in 2014, after people have experienced affordable medical care, they won’t want to give it up.

    Not sure how Ponzi Perry sees the now-or-never aspect. But, apparently, he isn’t concerned that after decades of experiencing non-starvation senior years, people won’t want to give that up. Guess he thinks “Let them eat Liberty!” will do the job.

  77. 77
    shortstop says:

    @handsmile:

    Perhaps someone here with more astute political insight could explain why this is a win or even a wash for the White House.

    I don’t claim a high level of political insight, but my credentials as an un-hand wringing non-firebagger are solid, and I say: it’s not.

  78. 78
    Ash Can says:

    I don’t see this as a problem. This way, the headlines of what batshit/asinine things the GOP candidates said will be followed up immediately with the headlines of what Obama wants to do to increase employment. Who cares how many people watch the speech anyway? It’s the ensuing policies (or, in this case, policy fights) that matter.

  79. 79
    cleek says:

    @handsmile:
    here’s MSNBC’s headline:
    “Obama changes date of speech to Congress after Boehner objects.”
    subhead:
    “Speaker opposed president’s timing on night of GOP debate; House historian calls move unprecedented.”

    NPR’s coverage (quoted above) was pretty much the same. yeah, Obama got bitchslapped, but the slap is unprecedented, and that’s got the media’s attention, too.

    no, i won’t say it’s a win or a wash for the WH. but Boner’s coming out of this looking like a real asshole.

    of course Boner’s not running for Pres, so that’s not much consolation.

  80. 80
    sb says:

    @handsmile: Yes, narratives matter. But who writes the story?

    When the press writes headlines that Boehner is a dick, the narrative will change.

    What is sad is the number of people on this very blog who buy the current story that Obama is weak and needs to fight more, I guess because they think he has a magic wand or something.

    Congress is filled with assholes and morons. Congress is led by one of the biggest assholes on the planet. That’s not getting reported. You got a problem with that? Write to a newspaper.

    Or, you know, you can just blame Obama.

  81. 81
    sb says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik:

    I just want some kind of fucking minimal pushback

    Such as…

  82. 82

    @handsmile:
    Narratives do matter. Obama doesn’t and can’t control what they are.

    I actually think Obama lost this round. Not that he caved – you might as well say he caved by letting Irene happen. If congress won’t convene for him, he can’t hold a gun to their head. But he failed to expect they’d do something congress has never done, ever, but could have done out of spite. He’s clearly the worse for it in public image, which was the only thing this was worth anyway.

    The thing is, Obama’s hardly lost anything in his entire career. He humiliated the GOP on the budget and debt negotiations. He passed the ACA and Finreg, and they’re insane with fury about it. The bitchslaps he gave them with the GOP caucus Q&A and the combined birth certificate/Osama Bin Ladin killings will go down in political history.

    But the NARRATIVE is ‘Obama Caves’, and the narrative stays that way no matter what the facts are. The MSM wants it, the right wing blogs want it, and the left wing blogs want it. Everyone people get their news from want it.

  83. 83
    shortstop says:

    @Ash Can:

    Who cares how many people watch the speech anyway? It’s the ensuing policies (or, in this case, policy fights) that matter.

    The course of those policy fights has more than a little to do with how well the public understands what’s actually being proposed. Insofar as the media and a largely incoherent Democratic caucus aren’t going to help with that, and recognizing that public approval of Democratic policy invariably goes up after Obama makes a major speech delineating it, it matters who sees this.

  84. 84
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Comrade Javamanphil: @Comrade Javamanphil: couple that with ACA, like mazedancer just said.

    I wouldn’t assume that the emerging minority majority, especially Hispanics, are a lock for progressive politicians.

    why? white NHC christian nativists are suddenly going to embrace immigration reform and brown people?
    get a clue dude.
    and with presidential election year turnout, and you have a prescription for endless WH defeat for the GOP.
    hispanics are registering democratic in greater numbers than any other demographic.

  85. 85
    MomSense says:

    NBC is reporting that WH cleared the date with Boehner’s office but then objected “after we had time to examine what they were proposing”

  86. 86
    geg6 says:

    @WyldPirate:

    I’m an apologist for insisting on truth?

    Whatthefuckever. You’re an ass and I now am pissed at myself for feeding all you asshole trolls.

  87. 87
    Brian says:

    Holy Tags…

  88. 88
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Frankensteinbeck: its Holtzman effect.

    “In shield fighting, one moves fast on defense, slow on attack … Attack has the sole purpose of tricking the opponent into a misstep, setting him up for the attack sinister. The shield turns the fast blow, admits the slow kindjal!”

  89. 89
    shortstop says:

    @sb:

    What is sad is the number of people on this very blog who buy the current story that Obama is weak and needs to fight more, I guess because they think he has a magic wand or something.

    Sure, but a little more care, please, in distinguishing between the pony-demanders and those of us who totally get what Obama’s up against and nevertheless are concerned about the outcome of this one. It’s fine to say that a contingent of people on liberal blogs is ignoring the reality of an utterly intransigent Congress and right-licking media — way too many folks are. That doesn’t change the fact that this round goes to the GOP in the public perception, and that this reinforces the (right or wrong, widely held by low-info and mostly disengaged voters) idea that Obama isn’t getting it done. We can argue about how much that matters, but it seems kind of silly to pretend that it just doesn’t.

  90. 90
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Ash Can: its minor, i agree.
    less say Obama went on before the Angry Clown Debates. then the “candidates” would unite to attactk him, and demagogue everything he suggested, and most of the conservative base would believe every word.
    why make his job harder and let the GOP pre-demagogue his policy prescriptions?

  91. 91
    myiq2xu says:

    Yesterday was a microcosm of the Obotian experience: Exultation, followed by outrage and then despair.

    Morning: “Ha ha! Take that you teabagging racists. Obama is the shiznit! That’s how you play bare-knuckle politics!

    Mid-day: “How dare those tea-bagging racists disrespect the President like that!

    Afternoon: “What? Obama caved in to those tea-bagging racists AGAIN?

  92. 92
    PanAmerican says:

    @Skipjack:

    “Everyone” should be 11-12 millions viewers or roughly 4% of the population. Why is this audience more important that of NCIS or America’s Got Talent or whatever shit is on the previous night?

    @Anya:

    jwest is Brick Oven Bill – see fixations on “free” energy and flat taxation.

    @YellowDog:

    Free media buzz is never a bad thing.

  93. 93
    niknik says:

    Man oh man, this thread is trolltastic. This is the best nontroversy since …
    since…

    Gosh, I don’t remember. What meaningless, stupid thing did we get all worked up over last?

  94. 94
    John Puma says:

    Captain Capitulation pre-capitulates in what must be taken as a preview of the speech which, we can only expect, will go something like this:
    “Just whip out them GOP economic buttocks so I may proceed to cover them all in big wet kisses.”

  95. 95
    geg6 says:

    @PanAmerican:

    jwest is Brick Oven Bill – see fixations on “free” energy and flat taxation.

    Also his casual use of racist memes, especially when talking about the president.

  96. 96
    Nemesis says:

    El Cid

    The Chamber of Commerce endorses the Keynesian (if you want to use this phrasing) point that we are in an economy weakened by a lack of demand, rather than some mythical fear by business of taxing and regulation, without which they’d finally be able to spend their cash expanding and hiring.

    Funny, last night I was flipping thru channels on the tv machine. Came across fox interviewing the top guy from the CoC. His message: companies will begin to re-hire when “uncertainty” has been lifted. Uncertainty about taxation, regulation, etc.

    My response to the tv was ” Fuck that. Demand creates jobs. Not tax cuts.” So it goes.

  97. 97
    Samara Morgan says:

    @myiq2xu: you obviously dont understand shield fighting.
    pretend to yield to draw in the attack, and then slide your blade under the holtzman field.
    watch and learn.

  98. 98
    SteveinSC says:

    @handsmile:

    Look how the story is being reported this morning by print and broadcast media: “Obama bows”; “Obama accedes’: “Obama caves.”

    Jeez, that is a surprise only to the numerous self-delusional at BJ. No one will remember the dust-up a few days from now, but they will remember Obama is a patsy. Hmm, how many votes will that get Harold Ford II next year?

  99. 99

    @shortstop:

    I don’t see any leads on memerandum this morning saying Obama “caves”, or anything near the emo reaction on this thread to this minor story. And do you really think the public at large is going to pay any attention whatsoever about scheduling snafus for speeches and debates? I don’t,

    And for all of you waving the cowards flag at Obama, claiming he is “weak” and all the other crypto racist blather, You might want to check the current polling on what voters think of Obama’s “toughness” getting his highest approval marks for protecting the country and all things national defense. The firebagger meme of O the big negro chickenshit, is one more stupid meme from the left nutters.

    The real issue, as I see it, is why I keep reading and responding to idiots on the internet. (not directed at you shortstop)

  100. 100
    Murphoney says:

    I’m all out of anticipation but I’ll applaud the Doug Henning reveal, if it comes.

  101. 101
    Samara Morgan says:

    @myiq2xu: besides, Obama prolly wants to watch the Romney/Perry steel cage death match too.
    it wont happen if the Angry Clowns all unite to attack Obama and wreck his jobs plan.

    On to Conservative Thunderdome!
    Twenty Clowns enter! One Clown leaves!

  102. 102
    Comrade Javamanphil says:

    @Samara Morgan: A clue, I haz it!:

    Seventy percent of Hispanic Protestants said the Bible is the actual word of God, to be taken literally, compared with 46% of Hispanic Catholics. Just 26% of Protestants said abortion should be mostly legal, compared with 41% of Catholics. And 59% of Protestants said same-sex couples should not be allowed to marry, compared with 29% of Catholics.

    Plenty of wedge issues left for the GOP. But take the future for granted, by all means.

  103. 103
    MazeDancer says:

    @shortstop:

    That doesn’t change the fact that this round goes to the GOP in the public perception…We can argue about how much that matters, but it seems kind of silly to pretend that it just doesn’t.

    For many weeks now, I have wondered if the President – and Plouffe – understand Pop Culture. And how in control it is.

    Americans, to their great peril, have been taught to believe instant, permanent okay is possible. Just buy this product, just win this reality show, just Tweet/blog/comment/wear a T-shirt at a Fox-covered “rally” and feel powerful.

    Changing addiction to the delusion of “instant okay” is long, hard, unpopular work. Especially when the GOP is the party of delusion. Republicans vote for the best delusion maker.

    But understanding that winning takes Pop Culture attitude, sloganing, and force-feeding e-z, soundbite rallying cries to the media is required. Please may the White House start to demonstrate understanding of this.

    Hope and Change were Pop Culture wins. Standing in the rain, drenched, giving a speech about how he would fight for us was a Pop Culture win. Mr. Obama seems to often forget how powerful a Pop Culture weapon he commands.

    America’s a Pop Culture, Mr. President. If you want to save us from ourselves, first you have to win the game. Then you can teach us more about what a lie it is.

  104. 104
    SteveinSC says:

    @geg6:

    you asshole trolls.

    Wrong, we’re progressive democrats, not exquisite prigs or Reagan democrats. Oh, and the ad hominem’s just add that je ne sais quoi to your post.

  105. 105
    harlana says:

    @General Stuck:

    don’t see any leads on memerandum this morning saying Obama “caves”, or anything near the emo reaction on this thread to this minor story. And do you really think the public at large is going to pay any attention whatsoever about scheduling snafus for speeches and debates? I don’t,

    you have apparently not been watching much teevee lately, the media is flagellating the story this morning along with “both sides do it”

  106. 106
    Cacti says:

    @WyldPirate:

    And as usual, you are a sniveling Obamabot apologist

    You’re back.

    Was the Koch money for spamming running a little low, you neo-confederate trash?

  107. 107

    @harlana:

    No, I don’t watch cable news anymore, if that is what you are talking about. They are always flogging something stupid, it might as well be this for a news cycle, then they will move onto something else stupid. Maybe you should ask yourself why you are watching so much cable teevee news? Very few Americans do, you know, on a day to day basis.

  108. 108
    cleek says:

    @myiq2xu:
    oh fuck, this thing is back?

    pie filter to the rescue!

  109. 109
    Davis X. Machina says:

    The speech will be moved again because of the approaching hurricane.

    Which will also be Obama’s fault.

  110. 110
    Yutsano says:

    @myiq2xu: And Hillary will still never be President. You may commit seppuku at your leisure.

  111. 111
    Davis X. Machina says:

    …pie filter to the rescue!

    Never throw out an old filter file….

  112. 112
    harlana says:

    @General Stuck: i haven’t watched cable teevee news for some time, i just recently started watching again, long story, so I’m not going to apologize for it – lessee, for instance, I’m home sick so I’m watching cable teevee, don’t have the energy to do much else other than read this blog, so sue me

  113. 113

    @harlana:

    so sue me

    LOL, nah, don’t want to do that. But I will say get well soon:-)

  114. 114
    PaulW says:

    Congratulations! This blog entry has achieved the Guinness Book of World Records for Most Blog Tags In an Entry. Bono will be by later to drop off the award.

  115. 115
    handsmile says:

    Thanks to the number of commenters who responded to my original post. I particularly appreciate cleek and (indirectly Violet) for the information on NPR’s coverage.

    Frankensteinbeck (#82): I must respectfully disagree with several of your points.

    On narrative: WhiIe I firmly believe that the Obama administration and the shrewd President himself could be more effective in shaping the media narrative, I’m not naive as to the Sisyphean task he endures. For instance, being called “a dick” by one of the Village elders for his rather anodyne efforts during the debt ceiling debate.

    GOP humiliation: If only that were so. As it is, recently-passed financial reform legislation is being eviscerated; ACA is being pipelined to the Roberts Court; CNN reports this morning that Obama has a 65% disapproval rating on his handling of the economy. In terms of his overall approval, the credit accorded to the Obama administration for its killing of bin Laden has long since evaporated.

    As you rightly state, “no matter what the facts are”, no matter if the particular details are remembered in a few days or weeks, the narrative is triumphant. This is why I am dismayed how this trivial, isolated incident accumulatively reinforces a narrative that is corrosive to Obama’s agenda.

  116. 116
    ant says:

    @barath:

    this.

    all the crowing about creating jobs is useless.

    high unemployment is a symptom, not the disease.

    and the cure for high gas prices is, well, high gas prices.

    good times i see for us ahead.

  117. 117
    harlana says:

    @General Stuck: thanks, i’ll give you Chuck Todd updates :)

  118. 118

    As you rightly state, “no matter what the facts are”, no matter if the particular details are remembered in a few days or weeks, the narrative is triumphant.

    LOL, No it won’t. It will be summarily forgotten once Obama gives his actual speech. Then, depending on what he says, that could well be a ‘triumphant” narrative, good or bad, nobody noes till then.

  119. 119
    Yutsano says:

    @harlana:

    i’ll give you Chuck Todd updates

    A note of caution: this shan’t improve your health. There’s still a Broder-sized hole in teh Village, and Chuckie seems more than happy to squeeze his fat butt in there.

  120. 120
    geg6 says:

    @SteveinSC:

    Well, I wasn’t talking to you.

    Now I am.

    Asshole.

  121. 121
    Alex S. says:

    @PaulW:

    I hope that mistermix didn’t just do it pro Bono.

  122. 122
    Samara Morgan says:

    @handsmile: but none of that is going to matter in the long game.

    Do the maffs.

  123. 123
    barath says:

    @ant:

    all the crowing about creating jobs is useless.
    __
    high unemployment is a symptom, not the disease.
    __
    and the cure for high gas prices is, well, high gas prices.

    Exactly. Unfortunately it’s exactly here where the standard progressive argument runs off the rails. Stimulus only works to get a self-sustaining recovery going if there are resources for the economy to self-sustain. Given that oil production has been on a global plateau for 6 years (all the while, China and India are gobbling up more and more of it) means that even if we got the economy revved up again, it would sputter from high oil prices.

    The way to respond to this is to design programs that massively increase our energy efficiency. (These can be stimulus programs, so they’ll create jobs, but they have to be carefully crafted so that they don’t cause much of a rebound effect.) Basically we need to decrease our oil-to-GDP ratio.

    I tried to make this argument at the GOS repeatedly recently, and ran into stiff resistance – folks told me that it was the banks/corporations/tea party/etc. that was the only problem. Of course, even if we fixed the banks, regulated the corporations, and eliminated the tea party, oil will still constrain our economy…but never mind that…

  124. 124
    xian says:

    And another thing, “rentboi” is simultaneously twee and homophobic.

  125. 125
    Elie says:

    @handsmile:

    It was a mistake. Okay?

    As a bona fide card carrying Obot, you have my acknowledgement that this whole things was a stupid mistake by Obama’s STAFF. Do you think that Obama picked up the phone and made all the negotiations, etc.? His staff really let him down. Now stop with the Obama is spineless when it literally was his senior staff who screwed their chief. Unless you think that its just Obama in the whitehouse making all the plans and setting up all the meetings. Do you think he does that? I’m so sick of the mental images you guys conjure up of Obama cleaning the pots and pans in the Whitehouse kitchen, for Pete’s sake.

    Honestly, the mealy mouth stupids around here must not get out much. Does the CEO of your corporation set his calendar?

  126. 126
    Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . . says:

    Hmmm . . . for some reason the ‘tako-chin reminds me of the character of Skank from The Crow. All balls-to-the-wall blather and insight as deep as a late-model Simpsons ep.

    I definitely think she should be the next FP’er. Throw her into the clown car just to see what happens!

  127. 127
    geg6 says:

    @Elie:

    I’m so sick of the mental images you guys conjure up of Obama cleaning the pots and pans in the Whitehouse kitchen, for Pete’s sake.

    And you think that’s a coincidence?

  128. 128
    OzoneR says:

    @Nemesis:

    My response to the tv was ” Fuck that. Demand creates jobs. Not tax cuts.” So it goes.

    Depends I think. In my company, business has increased, the number of clients has increased, you know what else has increased? My workload, because they won’t hire anyone new. I have a hard time believing there’s a budgetary reason for that, although my bosses will tell you the costs of rent for the office and healthcare has gone up, which may be true.

    Businesses that can hire aren’t doing so because they are making their current employees work longer and harder, and it’s working fine so far.

  129. 129
    cckids says:

    @Nemesis:

    fox interviewing the top guy from the CoC. His message: companies will begin to re-hire when “uncertainty” has been lifted. Uncertainty about taxation, regulation, etc.

    My response to the tv was ” Fuck that. Demand creates jobs. Not tax cuts.”

    This. My spouse owns a small (very small) business; the “uncertainty” bullsh*t meme makes him throw things at the teevee. If they want certainty, maybe they should work for WalMart, or HP or something – go be a corporate drone. “Certainty” doesn’t exist when you are the business owner. Welcome to reality, folks.

  130. 130
    Elie says:

    @geg6:

    Sadly, No. Just thought of another way to call them on it. Speech reflects thought. At least for most of us. They honestly must believe that he runs around calling people and setting up tactics. Bill Daley owns this one and I am sure he is pretty pissed with himself. He is a sharp customer but something go balled up.

  131. 131
    Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . . says:

    OzoneNick: You are the poster boy for “The plural of anecdote does not equal data.”

  132. 132
    handsmile says:

    @Samara Morgan:

    Sadly, I never was too good at the maffs. For political maffs, I do rely on the estimable Nate Silver.

    However, I encourage you to read Ari Berman’s utterly chilling article now at Rolling Stone, “The GOP War on Voting.” It argues that current demographic trends are being electorally neutered by aggressive GOP legislative efforts at the state level.

    On this thread’s putative topic, TPM now has a worthwhile reader’s response article, “What Was Obama Thinking”:
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/a.....?ref=fpblg

    Reader WN offers some creditable reasons why this incident may prove beneficial to Obama.

  133. 133
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Comrade Javamanphil: wallah. the browns still are not going to vote white christian nativist.
    Stu Hammerhoff and I both believe in the supernatural. that doesnt mean we are going to throw in with Michelle Bachman and Pat Robertson.

    A recent poll found that Hispanic voters overwhelmingly favor Democrats over Republicans, 62-25 percent — a Democratic advantage of 37 percentage points! And that margin gets bigger when Latinos are asked how they plan to vote Nov. 2. Nearly two-thirds (65 percent) of Latino registered voters said they will vote for Democrats in congressional races throughout the country, and only 22 percent plan to vote for Republicans.

  134. 134
    Hbin says:

    @PeakVT:

    Never would have pegged mistermix as a fan of whiny Thom Yorke.

    As to the substance of the post, I don’t think Obama is being naive. He asked for the date of the Republican debate, he’s playing his own game (good for him, BTW).

  135. 135
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @PanAmerican:

    jwest is Brick Oven Bill – see fixations on “free” energy and flat taxation.

    Both are wingnuts, but not the same person, not even close. BOB displayed a sense of humor from time to time and could spin off bizarre stories that scanned like something out of The Basement Tapes. jwest by comparison is as dull as dry white toast and not fit to carry BOB’s trowel. How far our once mighty trolls have fallen; now we have to settle for trollitos.

  136. 136
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WyldPirate:

    And as usual, you are a sniveling Obamabot apologist.

    So you’ve gone entirely over to the right wing side where you believe Limbaugh’s claim that Obama didn’t bother to check the date with Boehner?

    Believe it or not, following Limbaugh’s lead on everything isn’t going to get you that progressive agenda you keep claiming you’re so pissed off at Obama for not passing.

  137. 137
    Samara Morgan says:

    @handsmile: i read it already. but again, im explaining why the GOP is all irrational rage-raver now.
    they cant exactly brief their constituents on the core problem.
    How do you ever win a presidential election without the cities?
    Distributed Jesusland can still win mid terms and local elections, because of the lack of turnout in non-presidential elections….
    But i think this presidential election is the last one where they have a shot at the WH.

    Non-white people and Hispanics accounted for 98 percent of the population growth in metropolitan areas from 2000 to 2010, Brookings found in its analysis of the 2010 U.S. Census.
    __
    By 2010, minorities made up more than half the population in 22 of the 100 largest metro areas, it said. That compares with 14 areas in 2000 and five in 1990.

  138. 138
    ant says:

    @barath:

    Basically we need to decrease our oil-to-GDP ratio.

    no easy task, that.

    my thoughts would be around somehow shifting the use of diesel fuel, to the use of electricity when transporting goods around the country.

    but that’s all long term stuff. aint gonna happen.

    hard not being cynical these days.

  139. 139
    Samara Morgan says:

    @xian: oh please…you havent noticed the homoerotic tension between mistermix and Kain? mixie digs glibertarian reacharounds.

    and im definite twee,
    ima weeaboo.

  140. 140
    Elie says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    I think it would be best to say that “Obama’s staff” or the Whitehouse, rather than Obama – like he would do this personally. We have a lot of yokels who are very literal. I would like to elevate the discourse about what Obama does or does not do to closer approximate reality — not fall into the racist and degraded frames some have been using and allowed to shape their ideas..

  141. 141
    barath says:

    @ant:

    Agreed. It’s a multi-year effort that should have been started in 2009. But no such program can be proposed let alone implemented until anyone (anyone!) in Washington understands that this is a key constraint for the economy.

    The thing that baffles me is that even the most progressive Dems in congress have no clue how much oil is our achilles heel. I’ve never seen any of the supposed progressive heroes of congress make so much as a speech about how reducing our dependence upon oil is required to ever have the economy grow again.

  142. 142
    lacp says:

    140 comments and counting…..even though it made the news (saw it on http://www.msn.com), does anybody posting here think that 99.99% of the adult population of the United States will not have completely forgotten this incident (if they even noticed it) by the end of the day?

  143. 143
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .: hmmm….this blog could relly use moar desu.
    but i doubt Cole is gunna front page a “stalker freak”.
    ;)

  144. 144
    boss bitch says:

    Steve Benen:

    Remember, this is just about picking the date for the speech. It’s like arguing about the shape of the table before sitting down for negotiations.

    By agreeing to Boehner’s preferred day, the White House at least prevents a prolonged argument about process. Because Washington rules dictate that there must be a “winner” in every dispute, the Speaker gets to gloat this morning, but the fact remains Boehner still looks small and petty, picking an unnecessary fight. That he claimed to be speaking “on behalf of the bipartisan leadership and membership of both the House and the Senate,” when he clearly was not, only makes him look slightly worse. If President Obama values being seen as “the adult in the room,” this little mess reinforced the perception.

    I have to laugh though. The same people calling Obama naive for believing Boehner don’t think its naive to believe that a massive jobs/wpa/stimulus/single payer could pass Congress w/o any compromise from Obama and just some more pounding of the pulpit.

  145. 145

    In any normal world where even a grain of respect exists for the office and the President during a crisis no less…

    1. POTUS requests a rarer-than-fuck, holy-shit-this-must-be-serious, joint session of Congress to address the beyond dire unemployment situation in this country on the day after Congress returns to session.

    2. EVERYONE else agrees immediately and reschedules whatever the fuck to whenever the fuck: Congress, the GOP debaters, the media, the country. All teevees and Internets in the country are focused on the president and he delivers a prime time address. End of story. There is no “b-b-b-but the GOP primary debate”…and certainly not for the first of many GOP primary debates 14 fucking months out from the election.

    But, no. That didn’t happen. Instead everybody. EVERYBODY pounced on and rolled around in the shit-filled gutter over what is probably the most inane “political firestorm” I have ever had the displeasure of witnessing in this country.

    Why did he schedule it in the first place? Because he’s the motherfucking president, that’s why and shit is pretty fucked.

    That used to mean something before a black Democrat insistent on civility landed in the Oval Office.

    Now it doesn’t mean shit and Markos Moulitsas is happy to lock arms with Politico, John Boehner and Michelle motherfucking Malkin to drop acid, splash on the war paint, and throw rocks through the White House windows because its current occupant refuses to jump in and do the backstroke in the kiddie cesspool that has become our political discourse.

    Sickening.

  146. 146
    Samara Morgan says:

    Stand by for transmission, cudlips.

    Wikileaks Central.

    the world can vote on seeing it.

    i voted YES!
    /sideways smile

  147. 147
    boss bitch says:

    The right wing is rewriting history as we speak and they’ll be doing it hard over the next year. What’s the left doing? bitching about a fucking date. This is why you lose.

  148. 148
    licensed to kill time says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    How far our once mighty trolls have fallen; now we have to settle for trollitos.

    BJ Special of the Day: Bland trollitos, 10 for a dollar!

    They fill you up, but leave a bad taste in your mouth.

  149. 149
    cleek says:

    @60th Street:

    Markos Moulitsas is happy to lock arms with Politico, John Boehner and Michelle motherfucking Malkin to drop acid, splash on the war paint, and throw rocks through the White House windows

    of course he is. he’s an outrage merchant, just like all the rest of em.

  150. 150
    Samara Morgan says:

    oh, please let it be the Gharani massacre video!

    or maybe something relly horrific about the israeli-nazis.

  151. 151
    Samara Morgan says:

    @boss bitch: if there is a next year.
    /grins

  152. 152
    Samara Morgan says:

    so, i guess that this means slow drip paranoia induction is a failure. it just immunizes.
    reboot!
    next gamespace move for Julian– shock-n-awe paranoia induction!
    and the world gets to make the crowdsource decision.
    gah-ran-i! gah-ran-i!

  153. 153
  154. 154
    Inadequate Black Male says:

    @myiq2xu:

    It sure was nice of you to take time away from filling your jizz trough with your hourly Palin tugs and nestling into William A. Jacobson’s comforting bosom to stop by here and remind everyone what an insufferable prick you are. Thanks! The Democratic party misses you so very much.

  155. 155
    sukabi says:

    you know mistermix, if you threw in a new tag in that bag o’ tags John’s going to shit a brick… but maybe that was your plan… haven’t had one of Cole’s ‘you’re all assholes’ rants in a bit…. and they are sooooo awwwwwwwesome!!!

  156. 156
    agrippa says:

    @60th Street:

    It is sickening.

    And, funny in a black humor kind of way.

    Personally, I find it hilarious that the commentariat is having a hissy fit over something as inconsequential as a date for a speech.

    What is even funnier – in a sickening kind of way, at the pettiness of Congress and GOP.

    The great bulk bulk of the american people pay no attention to any of it.

    Script written by Seinfeld.

  157. 157
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Elie:

    As a bona fide card carrying Obot, you have my acknowledgement that this whole things was a stupid mistake by Obama’s STAFF. Do you think that Obama picked up the phone and made all the negotiations, etc.? His staff really let him down. Now stop with the Obama is spineless when it literally was his senior staff who screwed their chief. Unless you think that its just Obama in the whitehouse making all the plans and setting up all the meetings. Do you think he does that? I’m so sick of the mental images you guys conjure up of Obama cleaning the pots and pans in the Whitehouse kitchen, for Pete’s sake.

    Honestly, the mealy mouth stupids around here must not get out much. Does the CEO of your corporation set his calendar?

    Do you really think the adoption of a bad frame by Some Dude commenting on A Website matters that much? Maybe you could direct this energetic vitriol at the news media, 90% of which has adopted the exact same frame over this story. That’s the real problem, no?

  158. 158
    Jeff Boatright says:

    @El Cid: Which is exactly why supply-side economics never made sense and COULD never make sense.

    I’ve often marveled that the Republicans were so successful at getting even business people to believe in supply-side BS, because to do so means that one cannot believe in the “laws” of supply and demand.

    Supply and demand seems pretty basic to any idea of trade that I can think of, including capitalism. Every businessman, small or large, should be able to grok that.

  159. 159
    Elie says:

    @fasteddie9318:

    I know that the MSM are idiots.

    I also know now from your comment that you are an idiot too.

    Isn’t it stupid to either adopt the MSM frames or feed them distortions so that they can perpetuate them? Plenty of evidence of that on this thread — unless you can’t read.

  160. 160
    Jeff Boatright says:

    @cleek: Oh, you mean the Phillies and their fans! Just say so next time.

  161. 161
    Scott P. says:

    Another nontroversy. I couldn’t understand the glee of some progressives that Obama had scheduled a speech at the same time as some meaningless Republican debate, as if that were some great victory, nor can I understand the wrist-slitting of the same progressives today. Who the hell cares? It’s both sad and laughable at the same time how much stock some people put into perceived symbolism. How is this different from hating Obama for not wearing a flag pin?

  162. 162
    Jeff Boatright says:

    @General Stuck: So then you admit that you have no data to support any of your points about how this may or may not be important politically. Nothing wrong with avoiding the MSM, but it rather a large part of the issue here.

  163. 163
    MoObama says:

    The president is really a strategist. I think he wanted to speak Thursday but didn’t want the MSM peeing in their pants and creating a life crisis that football will be interrupted. Thursday will have more television viewers than Wednesday. The president is smart and Rusty isn’t. The bliss of stupidity is not knowing you’re stupid.

  164. 164
    Hal says:

    Not that big a deal folks. Really. Why on earth would the President spend days arguing over the date of a speech that’s probably going to take a half hour.

    I can’t imagine a bigger waste of time.

  165. 165
    Norwonk says:

    This proves that Obama’s brilliant rope-a-dope strategy is working. Or something.

    Anyway: Jane Hamsher!

  166. 166
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Elie: You seem deeply unhinged, but I’ll try to helpfully point out that acknowledging the media framing that exists is not the same as adopting it or feeding it.

  167. 167
    chopper says:

    @ant:

    no easy task, that.

    if only we could power our cars on understatements.

  168. 168
    TenguPhule says:

    Basically we need to decrease our oil-to-GDP *GOP* ratio.

    Obviously we need enough to drown the fuckers in it.

  169. 169
    NR says:

    @Hal: Here’s why it’s not a waste of time: The headline on Yahoo last night. Want to know what it said?

    “Obama bows to Boehner on jobs speech.”

    Perception matters.

  170. 170
    Elie says:

    @Hal:

    You are right: by itself the half hour speech is not a big deal.

    What is the “deal” here is what this all signals about the minuet of power and message between the Republicans and the Whitehouse.

    The President’s staff did not handle this particularly well and though their response was quick and effective, it would have been better to have had this without giving Boehner even an inadvertant appearance of controlling how/when the Whitehouse delivers its messages. Unfortunately, this administration can never take for granted that its going to be treated with respect by the Republicans, the MSM or even its leftie progs. That is why this is something of a if not a big, but medium deal, not to let Boehner and the Repubs do this sort of disrespect, although it does show them for what they are. If I am Bill Daley I am not in a good mood today. Unless they set it up to have Boehner do this (far fetched), he should have smelled this a mile a way. I am sure that they will never make this particular type of mistake again. Some day, Boehner is really going to regret this.

  171. 171
    Samara Morgan says:

    @Elie: elie it wasnt a mistake, it was pragmatic.
    there are only two days it could be done this week, Boner said no to wednesday and so O went with thursday.
    its radar chaff in the news cycle.
    the real news today is the Brookings Report and Assanges latest game move.

  172. 172
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @MoObama:

    The president is really a strategist. I think he wanted to speak Thursday but didn’t want the MSM peeing in their pants and creating a life crisis that football will be interrupted. Thursday will have more television viewers than Wednesday. The president is smart and Rusty isn’t. The bliss of stupidity is not knowing you’re stupid.

    People had a thrill go up their leg because Carney was a little snarky in his response to the debate question (20 debates, 1 president) so it looked like the White House was doing some chest-puffing. I doubt they really thought much about it; Wednesday is the first day back from recess and the White House wanted the impression that they’re getting into it from day 1. If there was an expectation that this would make Boehner look bad, well, he’s done worse things and still had the media there to cover his ass over them, so that wasn’t going to happen. I’m going to be fascinated to see how NBC deals with this.

  173. 173
    NR says:

    @Mnemosyne: The question is, why did Obama schedule the speech opposite the Republican debate in the first place? There’s no way that could have been a mistake. It was an aggressive move, a show of power.

    But here’s the thing: You don’t make the aggressive move unless you plan to follow through and hold your ground. Otherwise, you end up looking terrible. Like Obama does here.

  174. 174
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @NR:

    The question is, why did Obama schedule the speech opposite the Republican debate in the first place? There’s no way that could have been a mistake. It was an aggressive move, a show of power.

    Wednesday was a better day for a couple of reasons that don’t have to do with bigshotting the debate: Congress’ first day back in session, plus the fact is that less people would have minded the interruption in the Republican freak show than will mind the interruption in football coverage.

  175. 175
    dww44 says:

    @The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik: That’s the way it looks to me

    @handsmile:

    This is why I am dismayed how this trivial, isolated incident accumulatively reinforces a narrative that is corrosive to Obama’s agenda.

    This is exactly why this whole thing is such a big deal and why those who say it is nothing to get het up about are way off the mark.

    It really is all about another nail in the narrative coffin for this administration. And, the scheduling screw-up on the part of the administration can’t just be laid off on the WH staff, and it most definitely is Not proof that in some super duper subtle way this proves Obama is just smarter than the Repubs or the media, for that matter.

    He better have a very strong speech with some terrific game changing ideas that the public can get behind. It wouldn’t hurt if he employed some of that putdown humor he so effectively utilized in the WH Correspondent’s dinner last Spring. Not likely to do that in front of Congress, but it would definitely be a welcome and refreshing change.

  176. 176
    Davis X. Machina says:

    …no one is listening. No one’s been listening for twenty-five years. Not even to the Great Communicator.

    Reagan Snubbed Again–Networks Refuse Air Time
    June 24, 1986 | From Times Wire Services

    President Reagan, denied a speech podium in the House, received a second snub today when the three major television networks denied him live air time to argue his case for sending $100 million in aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist Sandinista government of Nicaragua.

  177. 177
    Samara Morgan says:

    @dww44: well one thing i betcha hes gunna say is “i wanted to get DOWN with the jobs agenda YESTERDAY and boner put me off. arent jobs important to republicans?”
    first line in the speech?

  178. 178
    SteveinSC says:

    @fasteddie9318:

    Wednesday was a better day for a couple of reasons…

    elie it wasnt a mistake, it was pragmatic…

    And on and on it goes. This time like last time, last time like the time before that. 12-Dimensional Chess, that’s it! No wait… Why don’t you dense fuckers try Occam’s Razor, it might help to clarify things.

  179. 179

    @NR: A show of power? He’s the president requesting a joint session over some pretty grave shit, and pre-empting what would otherwise be an inconsequential GOP debate. How is that a position of power in the first place?

    He was never in a position of power. That was complete ginned-up fiction. The media and reality TV-soaked all-conflict-all-the-time culture mutated a mundane written request into a PPV cage match based on pure speculation about what Obama’s motives might have been, handed the baton to the right-wing assholes, who handed it off to the left-wing assholes.

    It’s not about power, it’s not about Obama, or Michelle Bachmann’s feelings, or Chuck Todd’s smug shit-disturbing, it’s about urgency. And, in the history of the U.S. everyone always has, and always should, media included, accommodate the president out of respect for that urgency and focus on the substance of the speech out of respect for those who are in crisis.

    Now the conversation is about how it impacts football.

    Okay!

  180. 180
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @SteveinSC: Sorry, I forgot that the assumption must always be that Obama Fucked Everything Up, Or Else He Is A Secret Republican, or whatever the fuck kick you’re on. Oh, right, today he’s Harold Ford II. Whatever. So much wasted crying over something so stupid seems, well, stupid.

  181. 181
    Samara Morgan says:

    @SteveinSC: it just doesnt matter.
    the news media is interested in a rank-off, and horse racing.
    no one sees the undertow until it sukks them in.

    it was simply pragmatic. there are only 2 days it could happen, Obama asked for the first available. Boner turned him down, so now the speech will be thursday.
    a tempest in a teapot.

    And enterprises of great pitch and moment
    shall in this reguard their currents turn awry
    and lose the name of action.

    Meanwhile, Conservative Thunderdome!
    20 Clowns enter! One Clown leaves!

  182. 182
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @60th Street:

    And, in the history of the U.S. everyone always has, and always should, media included, accommodate the president out of respect for that urgency and focus on the substance of the speech out of respect for those who are in crisis.

    Reagan Snubbed Again—Networks Refuse Air Time
    June 24, 1986 | From Times Wire Services
    __
    President Reagan, denied a speech podium in the House, received a second snub today when the three major television networks denied him live air time to argue his case for sending $100 million in aid to guerrillas seeking to overthrow the leftist Sandinista government of Nicaragua.

  183. 183
    Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . . says:

    No, not Skank, but instead Sheen from Jimmy Neutron. That’s who the ‘tako-chin reminds me of.

  184. 184
    shortstop says:

    @Elie:

    As a bona fide card carrying Obot, you have my acknowledgement that this whole things was a stupid mistake by Obama’s STAFF. Do you think that Obama picked up the phone and made all the negotiations, etc.?

    Probably not, since handsmile neither said nor implied anything of the sort…nor anything else you rather wildly go on to accuse him/her of. Look, pointing out an unpleasant truth about media narratives and their effect on half-paying-attention voters is not the same as personally holding those narratives dear. You come close to acknowledging this a few posts further in, so why not respond to what people say instead of to a parallel conversation you’re imagining?

  185. 185
    shortstop says:

    @Davis X. Machina: I’m just happy to see guerrillas spelled correctly. It almost never is.

  186. 186
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @shortstop: I just get so depressed when people expect these speeches to move the needle.

    They didn’t.
    They don’t.
    They’re not going to.

    And the general election is over a year away. So even if this one moved the needle today, it wouldn’t make any difference then.

    A sound and a fury, signifying nothing.

  187. 187
    SteveinSC says:

    @fasteddie9318: “Sorry, I forgot that the assumption must always be that Obama Fucked Everything Up,…”

    All Obama’s got to do in my book is go after the fucking repukes, hammer and tongs and he’s back in my good graces. If he does that, I’ll donate $1,000 to his election campaign like I did before.

  188. 188
    handsmile says:

    @Samara Morgan: (#177)

    The laws of probability and cosmology suggest that somewhere in the universe there is a planet on which the scenario you present would occur. Unfortunately, it is not our planet. On this spinning orb where the laws differ on speeches by Democratic or Republican presidents, I suspect one of the first lines President Obama will deliver will be a witticism about a football game. Sigh.

    @60th Street: (#179)

    it’s about urgency and in the history of the U.S. everyone should, media included, accommodate the president out of respect for that urgency and focus on the substance of the speech out of respect for those who are in crisis.

    Exactly. Precisely. Thank you. (That too would be a nice planet to live on.)

  189. 189
    schlemizel - was Alwhite says:

    @mk3872:

    Yeah, like that is ever going to happen. Its not just Obama that seems to have no dick, as a group the current batch of Dems in DC seem to want to play bitch for the Republicans.

    They won’t stand up & they seem to be incapable of setting the ground work for the sorts of traps that stymied Republican ambitions in the past.

  190. 190
  191. 191
    SteveinSC says:

    @schlemizel – was Alwhite: No, I don’t think many of us question whether Obama has a dick, it’s whether he has any balls.

  192. 192
    demz taters says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: You are correct. I think with BOB, we achieved peak troll.

  193. 193
    HyperIon says:

    @General Stuck wrote:

    The idea of having an open forum blog with few standards of conduct, and rare bannings, is a noble one. In reality, you end up with whackjobs and perverts turning comment sections into laboratories for pathos.

    You are just noticing that?
    Oh, and you are also part of the problem…which is of the type “tragedy of the commons”.

  194. 194
    Heliopause says:

    @NR:

    It’s a head scratcher. Yes, Boehner and the Beltway media are petty; hello, did the Administration just fall off the turnip truck and figure this out last night? I mean, the bigbrains meeting on this must have gone something like this:

    Advisor 1: Monday’s no good, Tuesday’s no good, Thursday is football, Friday night is never good. Wednesday it is.
    Advisor 2: Hold on, Wednesday is the Republican debate.
    Advisor 1: Who cares, there are a million debates.
    Advisor 2: The GOP and the political pundits will throw a shit fit and the President won’t want a fight on this.
    Advisor 1: Fuck them, we’re the White House and we’re having it on Wednesday. Go ahead and send out the press release.
    Advisor 2: But…
    Advisor 1: Shut up, I’ve got this. Print the press release.
    *****

    Obama needs to figure out who Advisor 1 was and offer him to the GOP for Yuniesky Betancourt and a player to be named later. Advisor 2 needs to be promoted.

    Worst of all, this will be one more datapoint in GOP leadership’s collective consciousness; we threw a tantrum, he bought us the candy bar.

  195. 195
    dww44 says:

    @Samara Morgan: That would be nice.

  196. 196
    handsmile says:

    @shortstop: (#184)

    Well, gee shucks, that was very kind of you. I generally choose not to engage with those who brandish ad hominem brickbats. Thanks!

  197. 197
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Heliopause: Advisor #2 is precisely the kind of angle-calculating person who’s supposed — supposed — to be the problem. Advisor #1 is the kind of gutsy, take charge guy who’s supposed — supposed — to be the solution.

  198. 198
    SteveinSC says:

    @Heliopause: Advisor 1 is Axelrod.

  199. 199
    Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . . says:

    Becuase, ‘tako my darling, you are a bad joke. You are the avatar of the college freshmen: just enough ‘Intro to…’ knowledge to look a preening ass. You are a mosquito trapped in the amber of your own pathetic ego.

    I’d say that Balloon Juice deserves better than you, but it really doesn’t.

    Hugs.

  200. 200
    Samara Morgan says:

    @handsmile: well…i am fine with letting Obama do his job as he sees fit.
    I relly despise people like this–

    I am asking sincerely and openly: given that I have the commitments I’ve laid out above, how can I possibly support Barack Obama? He bragged– bragged– yesterday that this deal would be lowering non-defense discretionary spending to its lowest levels since the Eisenhower administration. That is, he bragged about his role in ending essential government programs that defend our environment, educate our children, provide crucial scientific and medical research, and in a myriad of ways contribute to the flourishing of our country and our people. At some point, the charade can’t continue. This is not merely a person who doesn’t deserve my support. This is a person who is unequivocally and demonstrably not an American liberal, and someone who has no interest in defending the historical constituencies or commitments of the Democratic party.

    can you believe that is a BJ frontpager?

    But AllahP luffs the firebaggers and emoproggs.

    Coming soon to a left-wing blog near you: “He caved again.”
    __
    And no, I’m not really joking about that. Check out the reactions from liberals Peter Daou and Brian Beutler. So much heart-ache..

    the GOP is going to try every evil trick in the book in the run up to Nov.
    im sry, but i have little patience for fifth columnists and whiners like Steve in SC.
    @handsmile:But we are governed by the laws of evolutionary biology and population genetics right now.

    shall we make a bet?

  201. 201
    SteveinSC says:

    @Samara Morgan:

    liberals Peter Daou and Brian Beutler

    can you believe that is a BJ frontpager?

    Shorter Samara Morgan: “Everyone’s queer but me and thee and sometimes I have my doubts about thee”

  202. 202
    shortstop says:

    @Davis X. Machina: Hey, who’s the idiot in this quote? It better not be me, pal!

    I know these things don’t move the needle greatly. But as little chance as we have to get our side of the story out, and inasmuch as these pontifications may set the tone for the real policy debate that follows (in the Dem caucus, at least; the GOP/media will choose their own), I hate seeing those opportunities further collapsed.

  203. 203
    Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . . says:

    handsmile: you should know that the ‘tako-chin (Samara Morgan or whatev) is yet another “former” conservative. Same authoritarianism, only the logo has changed from Decepticon to Autobot.

  204. 204

    @HyperIon:

    Haw! One of my personal blog stalking whackjob trolls comes out of the woodwork for a little shin kick, and will then scurry back under the troll bridge till the next time the courage is available to do it all over again.

  205. 205
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Duckest Fuckingway: Ask not for whom the Duck Fucks. . .:

    handsmile: you should know that the ‘tako-chin (Samara Morgan or whatev) is yet another “former” conservative. Same authoritarianism, only the logo has changed from Decepticon to Autobot.

    And everybody it disagrees with is a libertarian. There are literally tens of millions of libertarians out there by this counting method, enough to easily be running the country if only they all knew that they’re all the same thing.

  206. 206
    Elie says:

    @shortstop:

    Oh Gawd I am so sorry!

    I made the choice of responding to the commenter by clicking on reply because his comment stimulated my response. My response was really not directd at him/her and in no way was intended to accuse him/her or you of anything specifically.

    In general however I do think that some of you (general term) don’t seem to get how things actually do take place and behave as though Obama himself does and makes every decision for this administration.

    So sorry that I didnt ask you for permission to hit that reply button and so sorry that it wasnt clear and that your little fee fees were hurt.

  207. 207

    @Jeff Boatright:

    So then you admit that you have no data to support any of your points about how this may or may not be important politically. Nothing wrong with avoiding the MSM, but it rather a large part of the issue here.

    LOL Data? just what kind of data do you have in mind. Maybe the data that shows cables news attracts only a itty bitty tiny viewership on any given day, or the data that shows most people rank them just north of used car salesman.

    But I don’t need hard data to tell me what 3 years of reductionist, racist, firebagging leftists, who hate Obama and want him gone, are liars and general pieces of shit that I have not one single good thought toward. And in fact, have more respect for the wingnuts, and they are insane, so you can do the math.

    But I would agree, that when a Jane Hamsher or Glenn Greenwald goes onto cable news shows and claim to speak for “the base” of liberals and progressives/firebaggers, then that is a problem for the simple reason they are lying sacks of shit, and speak for a relative handful of democrats and liberals.. Some of which are firebaggng this very thread.

  208. 208

    @Elie:

    Your comment was spot on Elie. Shortstop was being a condescending twit defending the handsmile dipshit.

  209. 209
    Elie says:

    @SteveinSC:

    Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Like Obama is your kid and if he does his homework you will give him a couple of bucks.

    Hey, if I send you a couple of bucks will you shut the fuck up Mr nothing but stupid shit to say? See how that works?

  210. 210

    Do you have any idea how condescending you sound? Like Obama is your kid and if he does his homework you will give him a couple of bucks.

    This is about how all of these shitheads sound. Wonder why? rolls eyes

  211. 211
    Samara Morgan says:

    @SteveinSC: well no, i just dont see the point of firebagging and emoprogging Obama.
    what is it going to accomplish?

    the conservatives are doing their level best to stave off the demographic timer, and obstructing economic recovery with every fiber of their collective beings.

    what is your end game goal?

  212. 212
    Samara Morgan says:

    @fasteddie9318: that is not true.
    i disagree with libertarians, liberaltarians, civil libertarians, neo-liberals, classical liberals, bleeding heart libertarians, conservatives, cryptoconservatives, neo-corporatists, authoritarians and republicans.

    Did i leave anyone out?

  213. 213
    Elie says:

    @General Stuck:

    I think some of these are meant to split the liberals/lefties by sowing discord and internecine fighting. Hard to do anything about it or know who they are for sure but they are hired to make sure that the administration indeed remains enstranged from some of the more liberal policy and hews more to the center or right.
    Ironically, though they make leftie sounding comments, they are here to make sure that the left remains fractured and largely at war with itself.

    Ratfuckers.

  214. 214
    shortstop says:

    @Elie: My fee fees weren’t hurt in the least. I get that you weren’t distinguishing among the actual, content-diverse comments when you went off half-cocked again. The question, asked academically, is why that lack of distinction never seems to embarrass you. At the worst, you double down in your error like this, and at the best, you flip the conversation around to some crap like “I’m unemployed and stressed out and thus can’t be held responsible for what I say here.”

    If you’re really interested in tamping down discord and internecine fighting, I’m not sure that continually running screaming into rooms flailing wildly at shadows is moving you toward your stated goal.

  215. 215
    WaterGirl says:

    @barath: Are you barath from the Obama blog before the election?

    If so, I’m glad to see you!

  216. 216
    SteveinSC says:

    @Elie:

    Hey, if I send you a couple of bucks will you shut the fuck up Mr nothing but stupid shit to say? See how that works?

    Now if you will simply review your comment you will see how ignorant it is. We choose to support people who will lead and advance our cause(s). So it works the other way: Obama says he will lead the progressive cause and progressives respond in whatever way they can by sending money, envelope stuffing, telephone calling, etc. If it turns out he is a loser, then why would I send any money, stuff envelopes or canvass for him? See, that is how it fucking works, simpleton.

  217. 217
    Samara Morgan says:

    @SteveinSC: c’mon steve-o
    what are you trying to accomplish?
    what is the end game?
    do you have a BETTER candidate, a DIFFERENT candidate to support?

  218. 218
    Digital Amish says:

    I only hope that Obama at some juncture makes the point that Boehner’s and the Republican’s first priority, despite their “Where’s the jobs, where’s the jobs” refrain, is not getting Americans back to work and the economy unstuck but to recapture the presidency.

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