There’s trouble in the House and the leadership is square,
Bachmann’s actin’ freaky while I’m lovin’ Romney’s hair,
Tea Party busted in and said, “What’s that noise?”
Aw, man, you’re just jealous I’m with the Koch Boys!
As Atrios so pithily says, we’re doomed.
“Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors. “
5.
Corner Stone
Didn’t get a chance to mention it last night, but I made about the best brown mushroom gravy from scratch I have ever made. I wanted to immortalize it like maybe into a sculpture or something, it was so good.
6.
Violet
Does anyone have any experience with grey water systems? We are in such a drought, with watering bans beginning tomorrow, that I’m going to start trying to use grey water to water some of my plants. Things are getting pretty desperate here.
Just watched this lame movie on Comedy Central called Idiocracy starring Luke Wilson and Maya Rudolph in which they somehow get transported 500 years into the future and Luke Wilson discovers he’s the smartest person in the world. The citizens of America have been completely overtaken by a corporate-controlled dumbed-down civilization that does ridiculous things like water plants with Gatorade (they call it “Brawndo) because the corporation bought the Dept. of Agriculture 200 years before and half the people in the US work for the company. They think its good for plants because that’s what the slogan says: “It’s got what plants need. Electrolytes.”
It’s hard not to look at the GOP field and not see this stupid sophomoric film less as farce than as a warning. You know, we all thought “Bob Roberts” was over the top, too.
8.
Reality Check
So with my candidate Pawlenty out, I’m having a hard time deciding between Romney and Perry.
Oh, I’ve seen that twice. It’s way over the top but it’s a clever cautionary tale. Whether you think it’s funny or not depends on your tolerance for moronic behavior.
Because targeted advertising is wildly inaccurate in its present form. But all the money to be made on the interwebs is from ads, so they’re working very hard to refine their targeting. Some day soon your internet experience, mine and everyone else’s will be completely different.
I’ll probably say this on every open thread today, so bear with me.
If Gillian Welch & Dave Rawlings come to your neighborhood, you need to be there. They are as powerful and moving as it gets (but yes, probably not everyone’s cup of tea). Watching Rawlings work a guitar is quite an experience.
13.
harlana
@Corner Stone: I’m with Joan Walsh, the “being the adult in the room” thing is wearing thin. I realize Obama doesn’t like confrontation, but he could at least tell the people what he and the Dem leadership WOULD do to alleviate the suffering of the unemployed (these people aren’t just “frustrated”, they are suffering for the love of God!) and establish, on every single teevee appearance, that is the obstructionist republican congress that is standing in the way of improving our economy. It’s easy as hell, you don’t have to worry about any repercussions associated with your legislation because it will never get passed anyway
YES, talk the talk about what Dems have done for working people and remind them just exactly, by comparison, what republicans have done by comparison. Some facts deflecting the myth that tax cuts creates jobs might be helpful as well. Using the much despised “bully pulpit” seems the only choice at this point unless somebody has a better idea than free trade agreements (really?) and patent protection (yawn).
Well, the damage caused by my moron neighbors to my basement is minimal, and the party wall is dry to the touch. I should cut off the bottom couple of inches of drywall to see what the inside is like, but I don’t want to deal with it right now.
@harlana: Obama used his weekly address on Saturday to more or less go after “Congress” and “partisanship”. He used the word “Republican” one time.
18.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I see Laura Ingram was on the ABC round-table this week, to give balance to George Will and Bush-Cheney alum Matthew Dowd. I’m sure somewhere, Old Man Brinkley is proud.
@Corner Stone: There was an interesting interview with Larry Summers back in July, where Summers said that way back in 2008/09 he agreed with people arguing for as big a stimulus as possible – but that politically, only a smaller stimulus would pass Congress. When the reporter asked why, politics aside, they hadn’t argued for more, Summers said:
I don’t know what you mean by politics aside. Administrations exist in a political context. I’ve already indicated that I think that the imperative was to push the economy forward. I think the administration was successful in achieving as large a fiscal program at was possible in the political environment they faced. That it would’ve been desirable if it was still larger fiscal program could’ve been passed.
So there was, and apparently still is, an influential line of thinking in the White House that if it ain’t politically possible, it’s not worth talking about to the public. It’s depressing that it’s taken this long for a debate to bubble up about whether or not this is the best approach.
21.
Corner Stone
@harlana: As Calculated Risk says:
“Tax incentives are the “bigger idea”? It sounds like the debate is between doing nothing and doing very little.”
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, those Democrats in congress are killing us. I wonder how Obama’s taking down of “congress” goes over with some of the democratic members of that august body.
25.
arguingwithsignposts
it’s been a long year. crawl me down off the ledge. or not.
26.
Corner Stone
@Occasional Reader (okay, I’m here all the time): IMO, Larry is doing a little early historical re-writing to cover his ass a little.
All other reporting I’ve read from previous CYA interviews indicates he as much as anyone killed the presentation of a larger stimulus to the president.
27.
harlana
@Corner Stone: Again, in reference to the NYT article, the title is grossly inaccurate, didn’t sound like the WH is gearing up for anything remotely resembling a “fight” right now. Do they really think ANYTHING they propose will pass the Congress? Srsly? I guess somehow they missed all those statements about the primary goal being Obama’s failure and ultimate destruction. I swear, if they could get away with lynching the guy, they would do it. But, you know, the rest of us are still supposed to behave in a calm, reasonable manner.
Many of the fundamental constants in our universe, such as the strength of gravity and the speed of light, seem perfectly calibrated to produce a universe in which galaxies, stars, planets and even life can form. If any of these constants had been tweaked at all, the universe would likely be empty, with no stars and no life.
And if my aunt had balls . . .
But if our universe is one of many, then the fact that it’s so perfectly tuned for life isn’t such an unlikely coincidence.
The universe is perfectly tuned for life? It seems like 99.9999999999% isn’t tuned for life at all, at least life in any way that we are familiar with.
So there was, and apparently still is, an influential line of thinking in the White House that if it ain’t politically possible, it’s not worth talking about to the public.
That sure as hell ain’t what the Republicans do. It must be a hell of a coincidence that most of our debates take place in a conservative framework (e.g. the debt “crisis”).
30.
MikeBoyScout
Well, despite the best attempts of the teabaggers to destroy us, and despite the ineffectiveness of our Prez and his party to save us from eminent destruction, the Sunday she is still here begging to be enjoyed.
I also read that NYTimes piece and as an on the record OBot that generally think they’re playing the macro message war game pretty neatly I didn’t quite like how they came across in that article. E.g. I agree with them that long term deficit reduction and short term stimuli is good policy, and a reasonable thing to aim for with this congress, but from the reporting all of that didnt quite come across.
Good to observe what they’re actually doing then and that is in fact pushing short term stimuli and long term deficit reduction. Watch the Presidents speech in Michigan or his weekly address.
They are pushing extensions of the payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits, the infrastructure bank as well as some things that wont have a huge impact in the short run but looks good and may be good in the long run – e.g. patent reform and trade deals.
But the big problem is still the same: he cant do much more than that. He wont get another big stimulus through congress, unless public sentiment changes drastically, because it cant get through the House. If you dont like that we should have gotten more people to vote in the midterms. To some extent we have to put our faith in providence. If we dont like that, the only solution is not to lose.
@Violet. #6 – we had several years of bad drought in Atlanta. The last year we used a pump and garden hose pull water out of a second story bathtub. It was a bit of a hassle but kept the garden alive. We also installed giant rain barrels at each gutter. So when there was rain we could have the water available. Every time it’s rained the last couple years I’m so relieved that drought is over.
What they mean is “perfectly tuned for life as we know it“.
It never occurs to them that there might be other ways for life to be “tuned”, with different constants, so that “life” might exist with another set of constants for which it is “perfectly tuned”.
The stupid, it burns.
35.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Southern Beale: Did you know Maya Rudolph was Minnie Ripperton’s duaghter?
Perry comes in and T-Paw drops out. Doesn’t this mean the far right vote’s going to split while unifying the less-crazy vote around Romney?
38.
pamelabrown
@Occasional Reader (okay, I’m here all the time): I think the White House should do both. Push through what little they can: “little” being the operative word since nothing can be brought to the floor without the Boner’s okay. Simultaneously, bring the big picture jobs program to the people loudly and often.
Not everything has to be either/or.
39.
Gex
@Mark S.: Reminds me of Douglas Adam’s puddle analogy. A sentient puddle marvels that the hole in the pavement is the exact same shape and size as him.
The universe exists because it does, and we are simply discovering information about it. It should be “oh, that’s interesting” instead of “OMFG what if this number was different?!?!?!”
Here. my favorite scene. Now please, “way over the top”? Have you ever tried to have a conversation with a Teabagger? Tell me this isn’t every “he said, she said” debate we watch on CNN between a Teanut Republitard and a member of the reality based community.
It never occurs to them that there might be other ways for life to be “tuned”, with different constants, so that “life” might exist with another set of constants for which it is “perfectly tuned”.
It’s more about the Cosmological Constant. Infinitesimally small differences in its value would result in universes without stars, collections of mass or in fact matter at all. Those are all necessary for any life to exist.
Brian Greene and uh… I forget the name of that Modeler woman who wrote the book on Branes.
Anyway, it’s a real thing but they’re talking about the mathematical underpinnings of reality, not the temperature and water content of planets.
@Gex: Where I am in TX there is a huge fuss about rain collection. Both county officials and local HOA’s hunt down a mofo if you try it.
In some respects I understand, because we have a massive mosquito problem, and neglectful barrel owners may be a hazard to neighbors.
But we’ve got it in a bad freakin way this year and we’re not seeing any kinds of relief.
It thundered here in the greater houston area for about 5 minutes yesterday and then I never saw a drop of the sweet stuff.
Did you know Maya Rudolph was Minnie Ripperton’s duaghter?
Yes and she’s director Paul Thomas Anderson’s … wife? Life partner .. whatever. Don’t know if they’re married but they have a bunch of kids together.
52.
jwb
@Chris: I think that’s the Gooper establishment plan and why they’ve been pushing Perry into the race. Such plays have a tendency not to work as planned, however, and I still expect that Perry will now emerge as the nominee, with the product of lots of resentment from Mormons. I also think Perry is going to end up going full metal teabag in order to squeeze out Bachmann. The real question is whether Perry is a grifter or a believer. Even having watched him reasonably carefully for 10 years, I’m uncertain.
53.
JohnR
Well, since politics is even more a choice between the truly horrible and the unbelievably, insanely abominable (and if you really think that Mr. Romney has a snowball’s chance in this period of ‘the guv’mint is eevil! Eeeeeevil’, you should lay off whatever you’re smoking because it’s laced with weed-killer), you might want to go out and enjoy the fall shorebird migration so you can tell your grandchildren that you saw these birds while they still existed in the wild. Wow, now that’s a sentence worth something. Yesterday at Bombay Hook Delaware, there were buttloads of Avocets (the most beautiful sandpipers and such prizes as Black-necked Stilts, White-faced Ibis and Red-necked Grebes (well, OK, no Rednecks, they were all over in Iowa wishing they could vote for Luke Perry or whatever his name is). Get out while you still can!
54.
Gex
@SIA: It was Colorado (so I was a bit off geographically, although it’s the SW that needs the Colorado River not to dry up). It looks like they’ve amended the law somewhat since.
ETA: Suddenly all those fuckers care about upstream actions having consequences downstream. HOOCOODANODE?
ETA2: Okay, that wasn’t the best link. But there was a dust up between an individual and some authority in Colorado about rainwater collection. My Google-Fu is on the fritz.
“Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors. ”
Damn. I wonder who they’re polling, who their political strategists are. This path is not gonna work.
I was talking to some people about this over the weekend, and I can see the Administration, and some supporters, grabbing defeat with both hands. My hope was for a president and a bunch of Democrats in Congress who would be cagey enough to counter GOP obstructionism because the state of the economy required bold leadership and innovative strategy. Instead, what we are starting to hear is the Democrsts did the best they could because the bad Republicans wouldn’t let them govern, it’s the independents fault for not becoming loyal Democrats, you gotta vote for us anyway because Republicans are scary.
But at the end of the day, the economy is still crap, people don’t have jobs, and nobody, nobody did enough. The GOP don’t know and don’t care. The Democrats hearts may be in the right place, and they do some things right, but their standard operating procedure is to bumble along, get rolled by the opposition, and just promise to do better next time. Unfortunately, a lot of folks don’t have the time or resources to wait for the next time.
56.
SIA
We pour mineral oil in the rain barrels, which floats on the top and prevents mosquitoes from hatching.
Agreed. He killed Christina Romer’s worst-case suggestion of a $1,3 trillion stimulus (and in the end, the recession turned out to be even worse than that). I don’t know it for a fact, but I guess that the absolute political limit was the $1 trillion mark. Obama himself, in his first address to Congress, limited his options by suggesting a $900 billion stimulus, which was more in line with what Summers deemed possible. The final agreement was on $780 billion, but I guess it could have been $200 billion higher.
I love the circular Brawndo argument. That scene must have been a ball to write. For weeks after we saw this, in conversation the word “water” had to be followed by “like out of the toilet”.
Maybeyouhadtobethere.
59.
patrick II
@Mark S.:
I don’t mind those types of thoughts about the natural world — it really is amazing to me at least that the universe can hang together in some sort if near equilibrium despite all of the conflicting forces. However, it does offend me when people assert that the natural, deterministic description of order extends to our human society and economic order. That somehow the universe’s rules make it inevitable that some will be very rich while the undeserving will be destitute. First economics postulates an invisible hand and then the deterministic christians assign that hand’s movement to the will of God, and economic shortcomings to the wages of sin and lack of submission.
So, yeah that bugs me. But the amazing intricacy of a physical world that can exist, I find that amazing.
No I totally get it! That entire film was full of circular arguments like that. I mean, it was stupid and sophomoric and if we didn’t have Tea Baggers doing their own version of this with their moronic “burn it down” shenanigans during the debt ceiling debate I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought. Just something on the TV as I figure out what to take on my trip next week.
But this was the Tea Party! This was America after a generation of Tea Party politics running things.
62.
Corner Stone
@ant: I’ll give you the short version, because the long version contains some satanic rituals where I sacrifice a goat and promise fealty to the dark lord. Again.
About two cups beef stock, on simmer til it reduces by about half.
In a saute pan I had butter, red pepper flakes, minced onion and garlic. On medium high heat until tender.
Then I tossed some sliced bella mushrooms into the saute pan and add about 2 table spoons of extra V olive oil. Do a couple pan flips to toss and then let sit at medium for about ten more minutes.
Add a couple table spoons of flour, sea salt, fresh ground pepper to the saute pan and stir til combined pretty well. Wait til it thickens fairly well. Lower heat to medium low / simmer.
Pour in a little of the beef stock, going slow. Stirring and watching to make sure it’s not too thin.
Reduce and continue adding beef stock as needed til you get what you want.
That’s the nuts and bolts of it. Not too hard, but I don’t do too many gravys as I generally let my meat do the talking. I went with a gravy this time because I fixed chopped beef steak and creamy white mashed taters to go with.
There’s not only potential upside to aggressively pushing jobs legislation that has no shot at passing; there’s plenty potential downside as well.
The public – in contrast to us progressives – is not sold on keynesian stimulus economic policy. That should be pretty clear from a post Yglesias made some weeks ago that shows that more people are actually prone to buy the republican bullshit that stark austerity will create jobs. We should of course work to change that, but the best way to change that is by passing stimulus policies when they are needed, and helping people. To the extent that that is possible, Obama’s doing it.
Furthermore let’s not forget that the jobs situation actually is a huge weakness for Obama right now. Why should he spend political capital to put an even bigger spotlight on that situation in order to push policies that won’t get passed and wont help anyone? How successful would FDR have been if he only held passionate speeches but didnt actually put anyone to work in 1934 with 20% unemployment? That’s not very clear.
I haven’t noticed a lot of mosquitoes from our rain barrels, we have a screened top on them. But we have mosquitoes everywhere else. I use this garlic barrier stuff, works pretty well for a few weeks but you need to reapply it pretty often.
@SIA: We haven’t had any rain in a month in Athens. Maybe the lake is still full but there is a drought over here.
67.
Corner Stone
@ant: If you mean the ingredient “beef stock”, I get it from the grocery store where they sell ready made beef stock. I don’t have the time or capacity to make my own beef stock at present, since I have no place to store the vat of it that is usually made when doing it from scratch.
I put the beef stock in a little pot and let it reduce.
Kroger’s sells it in a little white and blue box looking thing for about $3.
Jesus fuck! As RossInDetroit pointed out, these are questions raised by astrophysicists themselves, not creationists. (Questions which, granted, may have been mangled by the reporter.)
So you guys missed the whole point of the article, which was that they have developed a way to test for multiverses–which is insanely cool! Up till now, the whole multiverse idea was an interesting one, but purely in the speculative realm–and thus not really scientific. Now it’s becoming testable. That is a good thing.
69.
Corner Stone
@Citizen_X: Astrophysicists are kind of lame. Seems like they need to get laid.
@Violet: I inadvertently started using grey water when I ran a hose from my washing machine in the garage out to a bed in the front yard (the drain was clogged). The plants all loved it and did much better than the ones on the opposite side of the yard. I do use laundry soap that has no color or perfume. I don’t know if that made a difference. We live in a perpetual state of drought and have for a long time. I use every bit of “old” water on my plants but have no real system set up for it.
72.
Worked2Death
No one else can make me feel
The colors that Elizabeth Warren brings
Stay with me while we grow old
And we will regulate the banks this time
73.
Corner Stone
@ant: Yes, sorry if I wasn’t clear. I used reduced beef stock as my liquid thinning agent instead of oil or water, etc.
Yeah, but the astrophysicists are not postulating that the universe is the way it is because it was DESIGNED by some consciousness to be that way.
Which is what is the deal with these creationist idiots. They can’t accept that the universe it the way it is because, well, that’s how it is, and life adapted to those conditions. Doesn’t mean that life can’t evolve under a different rule set, at all. Just means we’ve got the rule set we’ve got, and that predicates the way things are. Not that by some miracle that life happened to be dropped into this universe by the baby Jeebus after he manipulated the rule set to support the life he wanted to drop here.
75.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Corner Stone: When I first read your comment I speculated that you lived around the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone and that was why rain collection was bad.
But Houston? It was built on a bayou, FFS. Seems like you could remove every rain collection barrel in Harris county and never see a dip in the mosquito population.
the long version contains some satanic rituals where I sacrifice a goat and promise fealty to the dark lord. Again.
Actually, I want to hear about that part.
77.
Corner Stone
@Johnny Coelacanth: I know that, and you know that.
But try telling the HOA that.
And I’m not in Harris county, not that that matters a great deal to your point.
78.
Brachiator
Just read an interesting article in a recent issue of The Economist, about how advertisers and businesses are catering to those monied, powerful trendsetters, senior citizens. Turns out that over a third of household income, $5.8 trillion, is in the hands of people over 70, in a country where men live to 80 and women live to 86. The contracting economy has made this generation who saved and did well when things were better a powerful demographic.
One cute thing. They don’t remember commercials, so word of mouth is more important. And they prefer salespeople in their 50s and 60s. They know that you cannot trust anyone under 30.
…These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors.
“Improved patent protections for inventors”
Now that’s really going to energize voters. I can hardly wait for the bumper sticker.
80.
Corner Stone
@Citizen_X: Eh, kind of old hat by now. We’re more like an old married couple going through our parts by rote nowadays.
Doesn’t seem to be any of the old fire left. I keep wanting to spice it up a little but he keeps saying, “This is how I’ve DONE IT FOR MILLENIA!” and blah blah.
81.
beetle;dung
When you take a day off, from Dog walking, how do you tell your Dog?
The accusatory looks, the “I’m holding it” till we go somewhere appropriate to deposit this thing, stare…
Its brutal.
82.
Citizen_X
@Corner Stone: I think the Bachmanns suggest using corn dogs. (For…whatever it is they do “together.”)
83.
Corner Stone
@Dennis SGMM: Personally I find the obsessions with tax cuts as the only “viable” alternative to be disturbing.
84.
SIA
Oops wrong email. (I hate the BJ mobile site)
@ Southern Beale. What’s the garlic barrier stuff and where would I get it? We do have a mosquito problem owing to a near-abandoned, unkempt property next door. Thanks!
85.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Violet: You can do what I did last summer. Stick a 5-gallon spackle bucket in the shower with you. You’ll get it a third full of potable water just getting the temperature right. Spray, etc will get it about 2/3 to 3/4 full. You won’t catch all the gray water, but you’ll get a bunch that would have gone to waste otherwise.
And hey! No plumbing, no building codes to mess with, and no expense!
86.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Corner Stone: “And I’m not in Harris county…” eh, I was just trying to wow you with my comprehensive knowledge of local geography because I haven’t lived there since 1983. Despite that, I imagine that Houston is still essentially swampy, drought or no.
87.
SIA
Poo. Can someone take one of my duplicate comments out of moderation?
No kidding. All these inventors have been withholding their productivity waiting for improved patent protections. I know I’m going to be unveiling my car that runs on tap water next week now.
89.
Amir Khalid
@beetle;dung:
Me not dog person, but I didn’t know there was an option for dog people not to go walkies.
Man, this is old news. Advertisers have been catering to seniors for ages. No toy commercials on the Huntley-Brinkley show, just incessant ads for Ex-Lax and overnight denture cleaners!
But, you know, the rest of us are still supposed to behave in a calm, reasonable manner.
Quite the contrary, Obama is depending on folks like you to make the argument against Republican intransigence loudly and frequently.
“Being the only adult” might be wearing thin for those who watch him carefully, but those who watch him carefully don’t need any persuading for whom to cast their vote.
92.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
White House Debates Doing Little or Nothing
Obviously, these “analysts” with their big brains and “reporters” with their tiny pencils don’t understand what a privilege it is to live in a country which has President Obama at the helm. They should thank their lucky stars whether he does little, does nothing, or fiercely advocates for one or the other or neither.
.
.
Suddenly all those fuckers care about upstream actions having consequences downstream. HOOCOODANODE?
This is not “suddenly”. Water law in the West has been concerned with making sure that downstream users get their rightful share of the water since the area was part of New Spain*. Upstream users aren’t allowed to remove water from the system just because they’re upstream. Instead, the water goes to users according to their historical precedence. If there isn’t enough water to go around, the newcomers get nothing. Adding structures to capture more runoff counts as diverting downstream water; it isn’t your water even though it falls on your property.
*And the Spanish got their water law from the Moors. That’s right, folks, we already have Shariah Water Law in a large part of the USA. Time for the wingnuts to freak out!
94.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Gex: Yes, that’s Western water law: First in use, first in rights. Eastern water law says that whoever’s next to the water has a right to its use. The difference came about because of the much lower rainfall west of the 100th meridian.
There was a court case over rain barrels in Colorado a year or two ago, and it was decided in favor of the homeowners, IIRC.
95.
beetle;dung
@Amir Khalid: You have to compensate with a grilled rib-eye, bone-in. The bone is the clincher, takes time….
Up till now, the whole multiverse idea was an interesting one, but purely in the speculative realm—and thus not really scientific. Now it’s becoming testable. That is a good thing.
Not if a leak results and THEY come over.
Of all the horrible beings that populatenthe multiverse the Incarnate Auditors of Reality are the most creepy, IMO.
@Jewish Steel: Not me, the Dem leadership needs to do this. I would be happy to urge them to do so if I had a Dem rep or senator, but I don’t
100.
Violet
@SIA:
Already have two rainwater collection barrels and they’ve got some water in them. We got a surprise pop-up shower in our neighborhood on Thursday and got 1/10 of an inch of rain. Given the size of roof and guttering from which we collect rainwater, we got quite a bit to top up the barrels. I’m crossing my fingers we get a bit today. Not holding my breath, though.
@Corner Stone: The City of Houston sold rainwater collection barrels at a discount last year. I’m surprised the HOA and county are that up in arms about it. The collection barrels had the mosquito screens. If they’ve got those, they don’t contribute to mosquito problems. Has anyone challenged your HOA?
101.
amk
With t-paw being beaten by a straw of a poll, will mittens be promoted as the most boring rethug candidate of 2012 ?
102.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Roger Moore: New Spain eh? Here I thought it was climate that drove the difference in water law. I’ve actually learned something today.
I realize Obama doesn’t like confrontation, but he could at least tell the people what he and the Dem leadership WOULD do to alleviate the suffering of the unemployed
The problem with that is that a huge chunk of Democrats in Congress don’t want to do anything stimulative either. Hell, Claire McCaskill was recently talking about refusing to renew the extended unemployment benefits. So it’s not easy to present What Democrats Would Do when so many Democrats wouldn’t do those things either. I’m sure Obama really is thinking of “Congress” and not just “Republicans” when he talks about the breakdown of political problem-solving, because the “moderate” and pro-business wing of the Democratic party also deserves no small amount of blame for the current state of affairs.
And I think, like Danny said above, that a strategy to campaign vigorously on what you _would_ do if not for obstruction and general assholery has a lot of upside but also a big potential downside, in that it exposes how your agenda doesn’t really stand a chance. That’s why I keep thinking that the killer app would be a way to talk about Republican obstruction that doesn’t sound like sour grapes and running to Mommy to say “No fair!” But it’s hard to figure out what that would sound like.
This internal debate between the advisors who counsel investing energy in the small but perhaps doable vs. those who prefer the large and absolutely un-doable because it makes a statement shows that the “Obot” vs. “Firebagger” wars reflect divisions at the heart of Obama’s own governance.
Pretty neat article. It’s more accurate and complete than most of the “Gee! Astropysics!!1!” stuff that appears in the popular press.
Multiverse theory is pretty interesting. I also like the theory of extra ‘curled up’ dimensions in our own reality. Last I heard, a Grand Unified Theory required 6 or 7 extra dimensions to make the current math work.
106.
Dennis SGMM
@Mark S.:
You’ll be consumed with jealousy when I unveil my concrete airliner!
On East Coast now; coming to West Coast in September.
Thanks for the head’s up. Will give her a listen.
109.
Violet
@Josie:
Thanks for the info! I’m going to try to collect it from my sink, like when I rinse dishes after hand washing them. It’s going to be a bit convoluted, but I now have a 2 gallon bucket I’m going to leave in the sink to catch the water. I think I can life 1.5 gallons of water without hurting my hip, so when it gets that full I’ll take it outside.
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
I like this suggestion, but I can’t carry 5 gallons of water right now since I’m still rehabbing my hip problem. Maybe I could set up a siphon or something.
@Ian: Uh, no. Idiocracy was made in 2005 or 2006. Judge had the raw material right there in front of him after watching the first 4 or 5 years of the Bush presidency.
I frickin’ LOVE that movie, BTW, but the rest of my family is irritated by it. I had posted that clip where the cabinet is all arguing about the virtues of Brawndo right after that episode where Obama showed up at the GOP retreat and completely schooled the morons on the health care issue, under a “Shorter” heading.
Personally I find the obsessions with tax cuts as the only “viable” alternative to be disturbing.
Presumably because Republicans (and “moderate” Democrats) might approve some kinds of tax cut, while they won’t approve anything else. I don’t know why that’s “disturbing” rather than an admission of being constrained by the Republican majority in the House.
112.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Do the Incarnate Auditors of Reality use autotune to conquer their vast hordes?
Then no.
@Violet:
With HOAs, you never know what they’ll get their knickers in a twist about. HOA boards have a tendency to attract petty tyrants, so it’s always possible that they’re making a fuss about them for no good reason. They might object to rain barrels because they don’t like their aesthetics or because somebody on the HOA board misunderstood their legal status, or because they don’t like the person who put out the rain barrels and this is a convenient way to harass them.
114.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Violet: If weight’s a problem (and yes, 5 gal is a lot for me, too (8 lb/gal?)) try it with two of your 2-gallon buckets.
115.
harlana
@FlipYrWhig: Well, you know, if that’s the case, we as a party are in sad, sad shape. If we can’t get it together and pick up the ball, now of all times, and stand up for basic Dem principles that benefit the working and middle classes, who are hurting badly now, then we are screwed. Those (the unemployed) who haven’t already given up, will soon do so and they will stay home, because they have been beaten into utter submission by this economy and haven’t the remotest hope than anything will change for the better.
They might object to rain barrels because they don’t like their aesthetics or because somebody on the HOA board misunderstood their legal status, or because they don’t like the person who put out the rain barrels and this is a convenient way to harass them.
Or because I live deep in wingnuttia and rain barrels are Al Gore’s bathtubs, each one an invite for a hippie to start living in your backyard.
@Violet: My friend in Atlanta had a large plastic laundry basket type container in her shower during the drought there which probably held about 7 or 8 gallons when full. Don’t sweat not being able to lift that much at once; get a smaller container like a plastic cat food container (Deli Cat comes in these) that you can just submerge and fill – that way you won’t have to tote more than you can physically handle. The key is getting a container as cachebasin that’s large enough in diameter to allow you to fill a smaller container out of it easily – these days, not that hard to find. Those Rubbermaid rough totes would do the job quite nicely.
rather than an admission of being constrained by the Republican majority in the House.
The disturbing part is because either the admin really believes in tax cuts as effective policy, or they don’t but refuse to challenge the open space regarding what might be effective policy.
Either way, it’s “disturbing”.
Here I thought it was climate that drove the difference in water law.
To some extent it’s the climate, but big chunks of Spain have a similar climate. The Spanish transplanted their water law to the new world, and it stuck in the Southwest US because it’s appropriate to the local conditions.
Jeez, a state of 38 million and three stops? Sigh.
122.
Corner Stone
“Tax cuts” like the payroll tax cut possibly being extended, help people with a payroll. Working people.
They will immediately spend that $1000 in consuming something, most likely food and energy, and that cash will reposit right back into Exxon’s coffers.
What is the plan to help the 15M unemployed? A generation or more of human capital being wasted.
This is not “suddenly”. Water law in the West has been concerned with making sure that downstream users get *dont get* their rightful share of the water since the area was part of New Spain
As you know, I have a lot of respect for your opinion. But I’ve come to the point where what’s “doable” doesn’t cut it for me anymore.
What just happened — a tiny minority of crazed idiots/political opportunists essentially forcing, at gunpoint, every sane element of government to capitulate to an utterly insane and utterly destructive agenda — ought not to have been DOABLE either, but they did it.
Again and again it’s been said, reason and pragmatism only works when your opponents are reasonable pragmatists. Obama’s are NOT. You can’t just sit there and act like you’re still playing the game according to the rules when your opponent has grabbed the game board and smashed it over your head.
The problem isn’t with tax cuts, the problem is with “tax increases.” I put that last in quotes because the dialog has shifted so far away from rationality that closing a special interest loophole is now a “tax increase,” ending a government subsidy to a profitable industry is a “tax increase,” and the convoluted reasoning that continues the practice of taxing billionaire hedge fund managers at 15%. Those who advocate closing loopholes or ending subsidies or taxing investment income at something more than a pittance just seem to allow themselves to be shouted down or outmaneuvered by the wingers.
@ cornerstone whining on & on about Obama not calling out the rethugs. He did plenty of that calling out on the stump in 2010. Fuck he even walked into their den and schooled them about HCR. And in return, all he got from the mindless minions called american voters was shellacking. So he wised up and rightfully ignored the idjits from left.
Well, you know, if that’s the case, we as a party are in sad, sad shape. If we can’t get it together and pick up the ball, now of all times, and stand up for basic Dem principles that benefit the working and middle classes, who are hurting badly now, then we are screwed.
We as a party include a lot of Mark Warners and Claire McCaskills and Mary Landrieus, whose sense of economic fairness competes with another sense of “cutting spending” to balance budgets and yet another of providing incentives for the private sector as the appropriate engine for job creation. I think they believe in “basic Dem principles” but not as first-order articles of faith. It is a huge problem with the Democratic party from an ideological and policy-making standpoint — and, alas, it is also a way to get Democrats elected in territory hostile to liberalism, because it corresponds with sentiments that loyal red-state Democrats really do uphold.
IMHO half the party, in terms of rank-and-file voters as well as elected officials, sees itself as Not THAT Kind Of Democrat. And they mean the kind most of us who hang out here are: bleeding-heart liberals.
I heartily second everything you’ve said on this thread.
130.
trollhattan
Do we need a cruise missile to rearrange the Hoover Institute furniture? The a.m.’s Weekend Edition featured an HI “economist” spouting how it’s business “uncertainty” that’s keeping the economy from leaping ahead (paired with the usual list of commie stuff creating that uncertainty) while our paper has an HI “fellow” telling us Jerry Brown is no Chris Christie (by my estimate, he’s about 0.4 Chris Christies) and it was only Jerry’s hubris that prevented him from a budget deal with those helpful California Republicans.
Presumably because Republicans (and “moderate” Democrats) might approve some kinds of tax cut, while they won’t approve anything else.
Presumably Republicans (and “moderate” Democrats) might approve of paying the unemployed to take a tablespoon of potassium cyanide before going to bed tonight.
Or because I live deep in wingnuttia and rain barrels are Al Gore’s bathtubs, each one an invite for a hippie to start living in your backyard.
Wait a second. I thought one of the big objections to hippies is that they don’t take baths, so how can a rain barrel be a hippie bathtub? Riddle me that!
Again and again it’s been said, reason and pragmatism only works when your opponents are reasonable pragmatists. Obama’s are NOT. You can’t just sit there and act like you’re still playing the game according to the rules when your opponent has grabbed the game board and smashed it over your head.
It depends on if the real game is the one happening across the board, or if that whole scene is like a Milgram experiment being staged for the benefit of spectators. IMHO there’s something to be gained by playing according to the rules, even if your opponent won’t, when the crowd watching has a chance to choose either the rule-bound player or the board-smashing player as their new best friend.
But, yeah, I don’t have any problem with a conclusion that the best course of action is in fact to spotlight what you _want to do_ but are being prevented from doing. As usual, my interest in these threads tends to be in answering the question “Why would the Obama team be acting the way it does?” and less so in “What should they be doing differently?”
So he wised up and rightfully ignored the idjits from left.
I thought that the Democrats were the party of the left. If not then Obama’s base must be The Silent Majority.
Good luck with that.
135.
pamelabrown
@Danny: Danny, that’s not what I’m saying. Let me try to be more succinct: anything big or grand has to be accompanied by how we pay for it. The president also has the opportunity to contrast himself with the extreme rump of the TGOP who has taken over and silenced anyone who would dare make government work.
Those who advocate closing loopholes or ending subsidies or taxing investment income at something more than a pittance just seem to allow themselves to be shouted down or outmaneuvered by the wingers.
I think we haven’t actually heard much of that shouting match yet. My sense is that the general public shares your view, and mine, and does not find it reasonable to count closing loopholes and ending subsidies as “tax increases,” and that we will hear a lot more about that as the Super-Congress discusses the revenue side.
Wait a second. I thought one of the big objections to hippies is that they don’t take baths, so how can a rain barrel be a hippie bathtub? Riddle me that!
No, no, no. They don’t take baths. They study the flora & fauna that thrive due to rain catchment implementation.
Al Gore is the one who comes by in the full moonlight and bathes in the barrels.
The hippies just thatch and weave baby, thatch and weave.
I need some submissions folks!! (you can submit with the tiny ‘ask’ button if you’re not on tumblr)
142.
Jewish Steel
@harlana: Dem leadership has a host of parochial concerns which may or may not coincide with your message of choice. Plus, the higher you go, the greater level of abstraction for Joe Loinfovoter. Neither the president nor Dem leadership can proselytize directly* to people you know and deal with on a daily basis. But you can.
*without being a total pest or endangering your job, of course.
@eemom: Ok, this all sounds great.
Now show me exactly what you would have President Obama do to accomplish something “doable”.
Let’s hear what you suggest he do with a Republican House and an iffy Democratic Congress otherwise.
What’s your plan? Let’s hear your plan.
Man, this is old news. Advertisers have been catering to seniors for ages. No toy commercials on the Huntley-Brinkley show, just incessant ads for Ex-Lax and overnight denture cleaners!
The degree to which businesses and advertisers are catering to the elderly in Japan is new, and is distinctly different from the US, where teens still rule (when was the last time that the studios mounted a massive marketing campaign to pitch a summer blockbuster to seniors?). An example from the article:
THE Ueshima coffee shops that dot Tokyo seem like any other chain. But look more closely: the aisles are wider, the chairs sturdier and the tables lower. The food is mostly mushy rather than crunchy: sandwiches, salads, bananas—nothing too hard to chew. Helpful staff carry items to customers’ tables. The name and menu are written in Japanese kanji rather than Western letters, in a large, easy-to-read font. It is no coincidence that Ueshima’s stores are filled with old people.
This is a level of targeted marketing that goes far beyond what usually happens here.
Elsewhere:
Which is what is the deal with these creationist idiots. They can’t accept that the universe it the way it is because, well, that’s how it is, and life adapted to those conditions. Doesn’t mean that life can’t evolve under a different rule set, at all.
The speed of light is the same everywhere (OK, mostly), and it may be that the rules of life are the same everywhere. It’s just that we may not yet know what all the rules are.
But I take your point that creationists (and Andrew Sullivan) insist on interpreting science from a religious and philosophical angle that requires design and a designer.
Scientists sometimes fall into a related trap. There was a time when scientists insisted on a kind of cosmological exceptionalism. Our solar system was the only one with planets and the only one with life. The one and only, don’t even bother looking for planets anywhere else ’cause there ain’t none.
And now we are almost at the point where schoolkids have to find a new planet as part of their homework assignment (in those schools that still require homework and don’t believe that the universe is just a few thousand years old).
I thought that the Democrats were the party of the left. If not then Obama’s base must be The Silent Majority.
You say this with contempt, but I think there’s a degree of truth to it. If you accept my theory that at most half of Democrats are liberals, then it’s not surprising when the Democrats act like something other than “the party of the left” and when Democratic politicians act like liberals are not the base. The loyal red-state Democrat is not exactly _rara avis_: think of all those sun belt governors who aren’t at all liberal, like Phil Bredesen in TN and Steve Beshear in KY and Mike Beebe in AR.
My sense is that the general public shares your view, and mine, and does not find it reasonable to count closing loopholes and ending subsidies as “tax increases,” and that we will hear a lot more about that as the Super-Congress discusses the revenue side.
It doesn’t much matter what the general public thinks on this. The average Joe hears tax cut and think that it includes him, but also strangely thinks that cuts are going to affect someone else, especially the “unworthy” poor and nonwhite.
But every major tax program on the table would get rid of middle class deductions and credits. There is a promise to get rid of corporate tax breaks, but the bait and switch is that corporations and wealthy individuals would still get massive tax cuts preserved or created fresh.
Stranger still, senior Democrats in the Gang of Six have endorsed this plan as well. This poison will be sold to voters as “necessary” to reduce the deficit and to save the economy. And before they finally succumb, someone will post something about “the best deal possible.”
And no, for the sake of the slow in the room, I do not view Obama as a stealth sellout. The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered by the GOP on almost every level when it comes to tax and economic policy. The Democrats are fighting a rear action, thinking that they have accomplished something if they push cuts forward and temporarily save targeted credits. But the Republicans are setting the terms of the debate and making it impossible for Democrats to ever propose new spending programs even if they regain a majority in the House of Representatives since they have agreed to the principle of deep spending cuts.
I honestly don’t know what happened to the crew that managed to get health care reform passed.
149.
amk
@Dennis SGMM: The left I meant is the keyboard kommandos of the blogisthan . The real base is still silently behind him.
150.
harlana
@Jewish Steel: I appreciate what you’re saying, but honestly, I was unemployed for 2 years and I’ve run out of activist energy and really, pls understand, I live in Redstate USA and you just cannot talk to these people, it’s like talking to a rock, except rocks are more realistic, logical and compassionate.
That said, I have considered becoming active in my local Dem party, now that my situation has improved and I feel a little more empowered and less of a depressed cave-dweller. It’s a complete exercise in futility, but at least I could associate with some like-minded people.
I am told he has the power to yank every rich congressional ass from its, um, “hard earned” August vacation back to this hellhole of a city, and force them to sit there and listen while he demands they pass a whatever trillionty dollar stimulus and a restoration of Eisenhower era tax rates because if they don’t we are well and truly fucked as a nation and we’re gonna see “American Spring” here in the streets.
No, they won’t do it — but he can force them to sit there and DEBATE it, while the earth cracks from the weight of every last emmessemm jaw dropping to the ground at his AUDACITY and every fucking camera is riveted on HIM, and THEM.
Do you suppose that might impress some people? Even an unpleasant, ungracious, self-consciously cynical misanthrope/misogyn such as your vile self?
So what is he supposed to do? What? He had a press conference where he was a little bit angry and he got called a dick on national television. Just tell me what he’s supposed to do when the Tea Party is in control of the House of Representatives. Screaming on television won’t accomplish anything at all, nothing.
The speed of light is the same everywhere (OK, mostly)
Here, yes it is. But there appears to be no reason that these constants as well as the Planck Length, Cosmological Constant, strengths of gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces HAVE to be that way. These happen to be the local conditions in our universe but if any of them was slightly different the universe would be completely, radically changed. Or be a different universe. Which other universe might also exist.
The Democrats are not “the party of the left.” The Democrats now include all sorts of people who would have been called “Republicans” when I was a little girl. Get used to it.
158.
amk
@eemom: You left out ‘he should wield a shotgun while he is at it’.
If he does that (I mean if he follows your prescription exactly), you can say hello to President Bachmann/Perry in Jan. 2013.
160.
Brachiator
More Open Thread whimsey (it shouldn’t be all doom and gloom): I keep reading about how the iPad is just a toy, and that users should just STFU and get a damn laptop. Because if it ain’t got a keyboard, it ain’t a real computating machine.
And then I see this thread on a forum titled, “Where are you iPadding from?”
You see places like San Francisco, Bihar, India, Indonesia. Then, “still on the couch in Downers Grove,” “in my living room in Cheelmsford, Ontario Canada,” “um, in a big old wingback chair during a wicked loud thunderstorm in Fleming Island, Florida.” And this:
“from my hospital bed.”
This reminds me of people who kept asking why anyone would buy an e-book reader like the Nook or Kindle when they could get everything they wanted from a PC or laptop.
Elsewhere: Now that almost everybody has a smartphone with a digital camera and camcorder, it’s getting harder for Hollywood to keep movie shoots secret. Lots of clips of the Batwing from the new Dark Knight movie all over the place.
To me, as an old DFH, it doesn’t seem as though the Democratic party is the party of anything these days. They’re not the Republicans, big whoop. That’s the way it is but I refuse to get used to it.
162.
harlana
What would be the harm of proposing an infrastructure renewal program throughout the country? So simple to understand, I mean I’m agreeing with Tweety here, which is starting to scare me, but why can’t these Dem reps, running or incumbent, do this in their respective districts and dare their republican opponent to oppose such a common sense measure. With high unemployment, it would be popular with everyone who needs a job! It would create jobs, including private sector jobs, and eventually save money. What am I missing here? I certainly know our roads here are awful, throughout the state, there IS a lot of work to be done and we really don’t need more bridges collapsing into the water and killing people do we?
That’s my idea which I sort of borrowed from Tweety. I’m not proud of it, but I believe in full disclosure.
They’re not the people who want to destroy Medicare and Social Security and everything supporting education and the arts, and I could list a few hundred other things they’re not going to do that the Republicans ARE going to do if they get the power. If that isn’t good enough for you, I’m sorry. It’s good enough for me. I’m going to need Medicare in a few years from now and I’d appreciate it if it were still there.
I don’t believe that. I am actually naive enough to think that enough people –i.e., people with the sense to comprehend how desperately fucked over they and everyone else who isn’t a gazillioniare will be if we stay on our current path — would react positively to that kind of, well, leadership.
Also, I honestly question whether his own reelection should be the controlling factor in his determination of what is best for the country. I guess that’s naive too.
And to respond to your previous comment, no one says he has to “scream.” He could do what I’ve described with every ounce of his pristine, Mr. Cool, adult-in-the-room demeanor perfectly intact. Indeed there is nothing more consistent with that persona — it’s like the parent pulling the car over to the side of the road when the brats are squabbling in the back seat and telling them sternly that no one’s going anywhere until they STOP IT.
If you think that’s how the media would play it, you watch even less television than I do. I only read the New York Times, and I know they would crucify him for it. ETA: And he’d BETTER be worrying about his reelection, because the alternative would be a disaster. See my comment above.
don’t worry. Tweety didn’t think it up himself — he’s just parroting what actual smart people have said.
167.
FlipYrWhig
@gogol’s wife: Being ballsier and more confrontational could work IF he could count on the support of the entire Democratic party. But that’s never what happens. There are always the Democrats in the MSM speed-dial list who can be counted upon to say “This combative stance is lamentable and partisan and undignified for a president, especially one who promised to change the tone.” I don’t think it’s the Angry Black Man thing, it’s just the latest iteration of the way that In-Your-Face Democrat makes the media and some fairly big chunk of the public, even the Democratic-leaning public, very uncomfortable, because they prefer (and say so in polls) working together, seeking compromises, and the whole litany of things abhorrent to the liberal blogosphere.
168.
harlana
@Dennis SGMM: You know, it was when we invaded Iraq that I began to realize that this is not the party I thought it was. It was heartbreaking and I felt so incredibly naive. I realized, too, that America was not the country I thought it was. Boy, was I dumb, but at least I didn’t vote for Bush.
169.
harlana
@eemom: I’ve been saying it long before Tweety but the fact that he’s yelling about this almost every night on the teevee was a little unexpected.
To me, as an old DFH, it doesn’t seem as though the Democratic party is the party of anything these days. They’re not the Republicans, big whoop. That’s the way it is but I refuse to get used to it.
But when was it ever ideologically consistent? I mean, in the halcyon days of actual dirty fucking hippies the Democratic party still had all those Dixiecrats in it, who took decades to fade away.
the media loves a show, Mrs. Wife. And that would be a show to end all shows.
It wouldn’t matter what know-nothing bobblebots were babbling, because the focus of attention would — for fucking once — be squarely where it needs to be: on WHAT needs to be done to fix the country, who is willing to do it, and who is not.
You have raised no substantive objection to what I’ve said — it is all about perception. Well, believe it or not, the president of the United States has the power to control how he is perceived.
The real objection to what I’m saying is that it’s bold and high risk. Which, of course, is exactly why Obama would never do it.
Here, yes it is. But there appears to be no reason that these constants as well as the Planck Length, Cosmological Constant, strengths of gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces HAVE to be that way. These happen to be the local conditions in our universe but if any of them was slightly different the universe would be completely, radically changed. Or be a different universe. Which other universe might also exist.
Define local. This stuff is interesting, and yes there is some current research that is tantalizingly suggestive, but you don’t really have to jump through hoops of coming up with alternate universes to suggest that we don’t understand all the rules of this universe.
Astrophysicists are kind of lame. Seems like they need to get laid.
Sometimes I commute with people shuttling between JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) and CalTech. A pretty diverse crew. And while there are still some nerdy guys, I find it interesting that many of the women in science are babelicious as well as brainylicious. And one of the hottest women I’ve seen also happens to be an astrophysicist.
I am at the point where I think we are so far over the edge that — from the perspective of what would save the country — there is almost literally nothing left to lose. Thus, bold, extreme measures are called for even if he can’t count on the rank and file p*ssies to have his back.
Dear eemom, You wrote, “You have raised no substantive objection to what I’ve said—it is all about perception. Well, believe it or not, the president of the United States has the power to control how he is perceived.”
My substantive objection is (a) the Republicans control the House of Representatives by a substantial margin, and many of them are crazy and (b) it is a clear and obvious fact that the president of the United States does not have the power to control how he is perceived. Never has, never will. George W. Bush got perceived nicely because he was on the side of the moneyed interests, not because he was in control of anything. ETA: I have to go work now and stop procrastinating.
176.
Elizabelle
Kind of a sweet story about transit museums and the autistic kids who love to visit them, being obsessed and enchanted with trains.
Got me to tear up.
Like many children with autism spectrum disorders, Ravi [Greene] is fascinated by trains and buses, entranced by their motion and predictability. And for years, these children crowded the exhibitions of the modest New York Transit Museum, chattering about schedules and engine components and old subway maps.
… Now, the museum, and others like it, are moving beyond accommodating the enthusiasm for trains and buses among children with autism and trying to use it to teach them how to connect with other people — and the world.
Marcia Ely, the New York Transit Museum’s assistant director, helped create the outreach after sensing the overwhelming demand: Schools for children with autism flooded her with requests for field trips; she was regularly stopped on the street by parents of autistic kids who wanted to talk when she was carrying her transit museum umbrella; and she saw the same children returning to the museum every weekend.
@eemom: The Democrats’ m.o. is always to start with the 46% they can count on, and then try as hard as possible not to alienate the middle with big sudden movements. I’m not sure a high-risk strategy is called for when you’re at worst in a dead heat with your opponents. Think of Jack Conway running the Aqua Buddha ad against Rand Paul. It turned a close race into a blowout for the other side. He probably wouldn’t have won anyway, but it was a high-risk move that tanked.
178.
harlana
@FlipYrWhig: But how do you compromise with somebody holding a loaded gun at your head? You give them what they want and in return, they don’t kill you, if you’re lucky. So is it really reasonable to try and be reasonable with such people? It is a waste of energy and time better used to shore up the Dem cause, cynically taking advantage of a horrible economy and destructive republican temper tantrums. Now is the time to create and burnish a Dem brand and decimate the republican brand into the pile of horseshit it deserves to be.
And really, you don’t have to attack republicans, just present the facts, as they say, facts have a liberal bias, about their record and simply ask, do these policies support the middle class or do they undermine it and American working class values?
Obama needs to propose this stuff during a prime time address.
Even if he does not get all of what he wants, people will know he’s out trying. And maybe wonder why the GOP won’t pass legislation that favors the middle class too.
You take a busy person or couple who’s trying to stay informed via cable and evening news, and maybe Yahoo news? Or what they hear from other soccer parents?
Nevuh gonna hear Obama proposing these remedies. Just lotso attitude — skinny black dude is flip flopping again. He’s not a leader. He leads from behind. He doesn’t care. He has no passion. He’s no different than George W Bush.
No, they won’t do it—but he can force them to sit there and DEBATE it, while the earth cracks from the weight of every last emmessemm jaw dropping to the ground at his AUDACITY and every fucking camera is riveted on HIM, and THEM.
Congress is a co-equal branch. How can he MAKE them do anything? Make them debate anything at all? He may be able to recall them but the Republicans run the House, and they may feel like debating anti-Planned Parenthood bills.
And the MSM will describe it as an executive overreach, and a partisan gimmick that’s damaging for the discourse.
So, your “plan” really boils down to the “bully pulpit” because the president can’t initiate legislation. The Republicans are absolutely opposed to helping him for any reason, and the Democrats would rather talk about the deficit.
Now, other than Obama being an angry black president, what is your plan to get legislation passed for new job growth?
181.
harlana
@FlipYrWhig: Well, good, thanks for that. I’m dumb. I hope WH doesn’t give up on it just because it may not pass the senate. I’d rather hear more of this and less about free trade.
182.
Phylllis
@harlana: Where in SC?* I’m below Columbia, abt 60 miles west of Augusta. Where the majority of folks believe The King James version of The Bible to be ‘The Word of God’. If you try to explain there was a (homosexual) King James, who wanted the book revised, you get tarred & feathered.
*Just your general area-not planning to come to your house or anything :-).
183.
harlana
@Corner Stone: I don’t believe he would be risking being the angry black man to talk sense to the American people about what needs to be done, why and who is standing in the way. He’s always going to be considered an angry, militant, baby-eating Mooslim by certain groups no matter how conciliatory he tries to be, so I don’t see what’s the harm in drawing clear distinctions between yourself and the opposition.
184.
harlana
@Phylllis: I’m in Bob Jones territory (nuff said), I’m from the midlands but have lived up here longer than I want to admit. Someday, I hope to escape to the beach.
Now, other than Obama being an angry black president, what is your plan to get legislation passed for new job growth?
I never said I had a plan that would pass the current Congress. I am talking about a larger plan — one that would wake people the fuck up to what is really going on, so that, as someone said above, the republican/tea party edifice would crumble into the toxic dust that it is.
It is POSSIBLE, as long as we still have fair elections in this country, to get enough people motivated to vote in them that the stranglehold of the rich on government could be broken.
What is YOUR plan, Mr. Hate-Everything? Because when you talk about “executive overreach,” it seems to me you are as much a slave to CW as any Obot you’ve ever ridiculed on this blog.
One might almost think you’re not interesting in making things better at all — just madly in love with the sound of your own sneering voice.
186.
Phylllis
@Yutsano: My congressman. Which I take great pride in saying. Mainly because I am proud, but also because it pisses off all the right people around here.
I never said I had a plan that would pass the current Congress. I am talking about a larger plan—one that would wake people the fuck up to what is really going on, so that, as someone said above, the republican/tea party edifice would crumble into the toxic dust that it is.
So what you’re saying is you have nothing beyond the “bully pulpit”.
Because if you can’t lay out exactly what it will take to get the votes in the House and the needed 60 in the Senate, you’re no better than the worst pie in the sky firebagger asshole here. Just slagging our own side for no gain, and doing the rightwings job for them. You might as well dust off your FDL membership number and start doing myDiary at FDL.
188.
Phylllis
@harlana: Egad. You are in deep wingnuttia. I think there’s quite a few SC folks on here. We might need to think about a meetup.
189.
Dee Loralei
@Chauncey Devega: That was a great essay! Thanks for sharing.
And as 2012 rolls around it’s gonna get mighty uglier.
The Democrats’ m.o. is always to start with the 46% they can count on, and then try as hard as possible not to alienate the middle with big sudden movements. I’m not sure a high-risk strategy is called for when you’re at worst in a dead heat with your opponents.
This reduces everything to election strategy and ignores the whole point of the exercise, which is to govern well.
Either way, I don’t think this strategy is working. Trying “not to alienate” the middle is not the same thing as working actively for their interests. And people care far more about things getting done than about big swings or small swings or no swing at all.
I hope WH doesn’t give up on it just because it may not pass the senate. I’d rather hear more of this and less about free trade.
The problem is that an infrastructure plan that capitulates to the Republicans on individual and corporate taxes will still get you nowhere. Unfortunately, the Democrats don’t seem to have a clear idea of what tax policy should look like, or how it might be connected to rescuing the economy and creating jobs.
The other weird thing is that we are living in a time when Republican state governors are rejecting any infrastructure proposals. I wonder how much opposition FDR got from states (as opposed to Republicans in Congress) for his Depression era programs.
191.
eemom
Seriously, I can’t believe the extent to which people here are ready to roll over and play dead for the perceived invincibility of the republican/emmessemm narrative. WTF?
It’s the narrative plus the Republican control of the House of Representatives. That’s not a small detail that can be overlooked. I’m not rolling over, I’m going to work for Obama.
196.
Corner Stone
@eemom: Don’t try and deflect. You’ve emerged from your wanker chrysalis into the full beautiful firebagger butterfly you were always meant to be.
You’re the one telling us all here how disappointed you are in the president for not “forcing” Congress to make things better for the middle class.
To me, that sounds like the usual pathetic firebagger paean to the mythical bully pulpit. Where the only plan submitted is for the president to stoke the rhetorical fire of the voting populace, and then ride their fury into some change in the status quo.
Show us all here where the votes are going to come from. What will Obama suggest that can get Nelson, McCaskill and the Maine Queens to all sign on. How will he “make” Boehner put a favorable jobs bill on the floor?
Until you can answer that you’re just Jane-ing it up here.
197.
Corner Stone
God, this never would’ve happened if the Nicks were still alive.
lol at corner stone trolling eemom. and then elie not getting it. just another day on balloon juice…
the libyan civil war looks to be in its last throes, as least for this stage of fighting. tripoli is surrounded, so either the war will be over within the month or we’re about to see an urban clusterfuck that rivals iraq circa 2004. we’ll just see. and then of course is the inevitable split between the western fighters who’ve done 90% of the fighting and the work, and the eastern screwups who have all the money and diplomatic recognition at the moment. so that’ll be fun. one thing is for sure, french and swiss/austrian and qatari contractors are gonna make a killing on reconstruction. adjust your stock portfolios accordingly.
Now I have been reading along going from your most recent to upthread comments and this one sticks out:
Well, believe it or not, the president of the United States has the power to control how he is perceived.
Well, I disagree with this statement and am truly surprised that you would make such a statement.. esp knowing the MSM and the current firebagger blogs and how the President is characterized on those. I take you at your word though… why would you nto say what you really believe?
Whats going on with you these days? You seem quite different and demoralized in a way that surprises me for someone with brains…
Hard to come in on the middle of a thread and always get it. Sometimes even then I miss the extraordinary sharp repartee that some here are capable of. aisce, you are just so COOL…
Sarcasm can be hard to catch for people with whom you don’t necessarily engage or know directly …
I should have known better about Corner Stone anyway… Interesting that he can feign making good logical arguments but goes stupid as soon as he makes arguments for what he actually believes.
And thankfully, he has SUPER COOL aisce to keep all the correct personality and idea attribution straight.
205.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elie: How do you know what Corner Stone actually believes?
206.
aisce
@ elie
poor dear. if you haven’t figured out how the stuck-eemom-corner stone love triangle works by now, i’m afraid i can’t help you. let me guess, you’re continually surprised when matoko loko doesn’t make any goddamned sense either?
I dont. I am also not a mind reader. What people put out is all I have…
209.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elie: I am just saying that I would not presume to know what Corner Stone, more than just about anyone on this blog, thinks about anything. I believe him on nachos and his perception of the hotness of women. Beyond that, he may very well be yanking your or my chain at any given moment. It is part of his charm, such as it is.
210.
Corner Stone
@Elie: So Elie, are you with me against the firebagging eemom? Have my sound and logical arguments convinced you we are on the correct side and her FDL mindset has lost the thread of why we are where we are?
I get that — not only about him but anyone else who blogs here… the persona are not fixed nor are the handles — we have plenty of spoofs…
that said, I can only commment on what is presented. Only people like aisce (the COOL ONE) seems to care about keeping the characters straight and has the time and apparently nothing else better to do than to to keep score.
Well I am glad that you came to your senses, but I am not ready to jump on eemom as a firebagger —
No matter what, you will always be my widdle troll doll! Smooch.
213.
Corner Stone
@Elie: Why not? Didn’t she propagate the firebagger myth of the “bully pulpit”? And when challenged, didn’t she fail to provide a plan for getting “the votes”?
Or does the definition of heresy change as needed here at BJ, depending on the flavor?
Do sound and logical arguments hold up when you agree with them, then fail when they disagree with what you personally believe to be correct?
Yes, it is an excellent description of how we got where we are and what a clusterfuck the ‘opposition’ is that Obama is having to deal with.
Crazy racist fuckers who hate him with a burning passion and there’s no chance of ever negotiating anything with them. They want to see him fail and that’s the end of it.
I am just saying that I would not presume to know what Corner Stone, more than just about anyone on this blog, thinks about anything.
imo, that’s because he doesn’t really think anything about anything. I.e., he has no actual beliefs or values; he’s just a sociopathic troll to the core. I would say this thread is particularly compelling evidence of that.
please ignore the creature. In his ultimate fantasy world he’d be the snake in the garden of Eden.
Since, here in the real world, he’s too insignificant to actually accomplish anything evil, he’s reduced to playing off decent well meaning people like you and me against each other on a blog. A fairly pathetic existence for a would-be Mephistopheles.
218.
aisce
@ eemom
now that’s just not true. corner stone is madly, deeply, desperately in love with hillary clinton and he doesn’t care who knows it.
(i wonder if elie will continue to pout and call me cool in allcaps now that i’m making fun of corner stone, or if she only reserves that bit of dramatics when she’s the target.)
219.
aisce
@ eemom
also, too, it’s true, eemom. you’re being a total “bully pulpit!” firebagger right now. just a shameful lack of self-awareness.
220.
Jewish Steel
In CS’s defense it gets mighty lonely over at The Confluence.
That kind of isolation does shit to your mind, man.
Didn’t she propagate the firebagger myth of the “bully pulpit”?
No, no, and no. She’s propagating the firebagger myth of the black bull’s Coke can. And that makes her a fool, because it’s not a myth.
.
.
222.
FlipYrWhig
There’s nothing wrong with the “bully pulpit” as a _rhetorical strategy_. “Obama should talk like this and make his case for that, because I’d like it better, it’s win people over, and it might generate some interesting media coverage.” Great!
The error is in presuming that the bully pulpit is also a way to get good legislation through Congress. It’s never going to accomplish that. The reason is because even when the bully pulpit works as designed, and the people gravitate towards what Obama wants, Republicans aren’t so shaken by that movement that they bail on their reflexive anti-Obama position and embrace what is popular with the people.
Maybe some of that is because angry people don’t do enough contacting their representatives to harangue them and make them fearful of not getting reelected. But I don’t think even that would work, because the current Republican political theory is to refuse and obstruct and dare their voters to toss them out if they don’t like it. They’re not interested in winning votes from Democrats, and they’re barely interested in satisfying their constituents, because they’re all about ideological conflict.
So the bully pulpit is a lousy way to get legislation done, but might be a useful way to campaign.
OTOH, working to cut deals with Republicans is a good way to get legislation done, but that legislation is going to skew to the small and the right. And the process of hammering out those deals, because it involves some degree of affirming Republican policy preferences, is a lousy way to campaign for liberals’ votes. But, depending on how you look at it, being able to say you found common ground is potentially a decent way to campaign for non-liberal votes from “moderate” Democrats, old-school Republicans, and true independents — although that meta claim has to be balanced with the smaller positive impact (or worse) of the final legislation.
OTOH, working to cut deals with Republicans is a good way to get legislation done, but that legislation is going to skew to the small and the right.
Is the point of the exercise just to get legislation done? Are you really suggesting that governing does not matter and the content of legislation is irrelevant as long as Democrats win a few seats and maybe keep the White House?
And it is not just that legislation is small and skews to the right. Republicans push their agenda, and then when they gain power they do everything they can to roll back everything that the Democrats previously accomplished.
And it is a big lie that Independents are mainly moderates who just want to see compromise.
And if the Democratic leadership think that their grand purpose is to just make crappy deals and rationalize their failures, then they should just resign and save people the trouble of going to the polls.
I feel like there are a lot of creatures prancing around the blog today. Some of them are marginally entertaining. Others need to be swirling down the tank when you push the flush…
227.
Corner Stone
@Elie: You’re more than a little ridiculous. The argument eemom has been making all thread is contra everything you believe. Everything you think has merit and is “sound and logical”.
I’ve been making the consistent compatriot argument – one you agreed with over and over – but somehow it’s the individual that matters and not the argument.
I had hoped to point out the farce that is the whole “firebagger” nonsense here by hoisting the execrable eemom on her own years long petard. But tribalism has played its card again, and trumped any actual argument.
I hope one day you’ll get the point, but I doubt it.
I had hoped to point out the farce that is the whole “firebagger” nonsense here by hoisting the execrable eemom on her own years long petard.
sorry, asshole, but it is not that simple — and so once again your vacuous, soul-dead nihilism reveals itself for what it is.
Things are not the same now as they were in 2009 or pre-election 2010. The brick wall of hopelessness we’re beating our heads against now wasn’t built yet then.
Before the 2010 election, there WAS a strong case to be made for “let’s do what CAN be done,” as opposed to tantrum-throwing brats screaming about the public option being thrown under the bus. The compromises that were made then were justifiable, because the outcome was better than the status quo. The passage of HCR WAS progress.
That’s not the world we’re in now. The game has changed, and so the strategy must change.
I’d elaborate, but there’s no reason to waste my good sense on you. You are, as I said above, uncaring of anything but your own pathetic ego.
That’s not the world we’re in now. The game has changed, and so the strategy must change.
Even more to the point, if the world has changed and the strategy must change then why hasn’t it?
I mean, that’s what you’ve been doing here at BJ recently, correct? Carrying on that the strategy and outlook does not seem to match what you consider to be a “changed” playing field. You’ve been exhaustively pointing out that President Obama does not seem to be matching your expectations on how to move forward.
So. I guess there are at least a couple options to consider at this point. Let’s see if you’re bright enough to determine what they are.
oh I think you know the answer to that. As with everything else, however, the solid wall of your miserable fear and loathing of all things human will prevent you from acknowledging it.
Go rot in your self-imposed dungeon, loser. I am done here.
hi there, Unk. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to say something “nice” about Cornered Stone, which is that, inhuman as he is, he is WAY smarter than you, cuz at least he possesses some minimal capacity to adapt his assholery to the dialogue at hand — whereas you, day after day, post after post, still spew forth the SAME old tiresome “Obama sux” trope, in EXACTLY the same format, so very tedious that even our ultra-troll-feeding population here seldom bothers with you — indeed even less than they bother with that sub-50 I.Q. moron Fred/Derf. Just go run some numbers if you don’t believe me.
And don’t get too excited about my lack of future posts. I ain’t going nowhere.
And if the Democratic leadership think that their grand purpose is to just make crappy deals and rationalize their failures, then they should just resign and save people the trouble of going to the polls.
Their grand purpose is to get the best deal they can when they’re in the majority, and minimize the harm when they’re in the minority. They are hampered, from a liberal standpoint, in the fact that their members are not lockstep liberals, so even when they achieve majority status you get Mike Rosses and Bart Stupaks being pains in the ass — because they believe in different priorities than the liberals do. Ergo, there is almost never something that can be identified as The Democratic View or The Democratic Strategy. There could be, if the party was dominated by liberals. But it isn’t. Which is regrettable, but OBVIOUSLY true.
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Corner Stone
Ahhh…{slipping into the hot, soapy tub water}
Worked2Death
We gotta fight for the Right to party!
There’s trouble in the House and the leadership is square,
Bachmann’s actin’ freaky while I’m lovin’ Romney’s hair,
Tea Party busted in and said, “What’s that noise?”
Aw, man, you’re just jealous I’m with the Koch Boys!
We gotta fight for the Right to party!
sistermoon
Why is a Club for Growth ad on this blog?
Corner Stone
White House Debates Fight on Economy
As Atrios so pithily says, we’re doomed.
“Mr. Obama’s senior adviser, David Plouffe, and his chief of staff, William M. Daley, want him to maintain a pragmatic strategy of appealing to independent voters by advocating ideas that can pass Congress, even if they may not have much economic impact. These include free trade agreements and improved patent protections for inventors. “
Corner Stone
Didn’t get a chance to mention it last night, but I made about the best brown mushroom gravy from scratch I have ever made. I wanted to immortalize it like maybe into a sculpture or something, it was so good.
Violet
Does anyone have any experience with grey water systems? We are in such a drought, with watering bans beginning tomorrow, that I’m going to start trying to use grey water to water some of my plants. Things are getting pretty desperate here.
Southern Beale
Just watched this lame movie on Comedy Central called Idiocracy starring Luke Wilson and Maya Rudolph in which they somehow get transported 500 years into the future and Luke Wilson discovers he’s the smartest person in the world. The citizens of America have been completely overtaken by a corporate-controlled dumbed-down civilization that does ridiculous things like water plants with Gatorade (they call it “Brawndo) because the corporation bought the Dept. of Agriculture 200 years before and half the people in the US work for the company. They think its good for plants because that’s what the slogan says: “It’s got what plants need. Electrolytes.”
It’s hard not to look at the GOP field and not see this stupid sophomoric film less as farce than as a warning. You know, we all thought “Bob Roberts” was over the top, too.
Reality Check
So with my candidate Pawlenty out, I’m having a hard time deciding between Romney and Perry.
cleek
@Worked2Death:
party on the left
party on the right
you gotta party for your mother fuckin’ right to fight
make some noise
RossInDetroit
@Southern Beale:
Oh, I’ve seen that twice. It’s way over the top but it’s a clever cautionary tale. Whether you think it’s funny or not depends on your tolerance for moronic behavior.
RossInDetroit
@sistermoon:
Because targeted advertising is wildly inaccurate in its present form. But all the money to be made on the interwebs is from ads, so they’re working very hard to refine their targeting. Some day soon your internet experience, mine and everyone else’s will be completely different.
Montysano
I’ll probably say this on every open thread today, so bear with me.
If Gillian Welch & Dave Rawlings come to your neighborhood, you need to be there. They are as powerful and moving as it gets (but yes, probably not everyone’s cup of tea). Watching Rawlings work a guitar is quite an experience.
harlana
@Corner Stone: I’m with Joan Walsh, the “being the adult in the room” thing is wearing thin. I realize Obama doesn’t like confrontation, but he could at least tell the people what he and the Dem leadership WOULD do to alleviate the suffering of the unemployed (these people aren’t just “frustrated”, they are suffering for the love of God!) and establish, on every single teevee appearance, that is the obstructionist republican congress that is standing in the way of improving our economy. It’s easy as hell, you don’t have to worry about any repercussions associated with your legislation because it will never get passed anyway
YES, talk the talk about what Dems have done for working people and remind them just exactly, by comparison, what republicans have done by comparison. Some facts deflecting the myth that tax cuts creates jobs might be helpful as well. Using the much despised “bully pulpit” seems the only choice at this point unless somebody has a better idea than free trade agreements (really?) and patent protection (yawn).
Ash Can
@Reality Check: I lol’d.
PeakVT
Well, the damage caused by my moron neighbors to my basement is minimal, and the party wall is dry to the touch. I should cut off the bottom couple of inches of drywall to see what the inside is like, but I don’t want to deal with it right now.
trollhattan
I loves me some Sam Phillips. You should too.
http://www.npr.org/2011/08/11/138466234/sam-phillips-a-songwriter-in-a-solid-state-of-mind?sc=tw&cc=freshair
Corner Stone
@harlana: Obama used his weekly address on Saturday to more or less go after “Congress” and “partisanship”. He used the word “Republican” one time.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
I see Laura Ingram was on the ABC round-table this week, to give balance to George Will and Bush-Cheney alum Matthew Dowd. I’m sure somewhere, Old Man Brinkley is proud.
trollhattan
@Montysano:
Mr. Rawlings can play some guitar, and Gillian is a national treasure. Full stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nugXkgd_-84
Occasional Reader (okay, I'm here all the time)
@Corner Stone: There was an interesting interview with Larry Summers back in July, where Summers said that way back in 2008/09 he agreed with people arguing for as big a stimulus as possible – but that politically, only a smaller stimulus would pass Congress. When the reporter asked why, politics aside, they hadn’t argued for more, Summers said:
So there was, and apparently still is, an influential line of thinking in the White House that if it ain’t politically possible, it’s not worth talking about to the public. It’s depressing that it’s taken this long for a debate to bubble up about whether or not this is the best approach.
Corner Stone
@harlana: As Calculated Risk says:
“Tax incentives are the “bigger idea”? It sounds like the debate is between doing nothing and doing very little.”
cleek
@Montysano:
yup. they are truly remarkable.
saw them last week. i think that makes show #5 for us.
gil, dave, my wife.
Worked2Death
@trollhattan: +1 Omnipop
patrick II
@Corner Stone:
Yeah, those Democrats in congress are killing us. I wonder how Obama’s taking down of “congress” goes over with some of the democratic members of that august body.
arguingwithsignposts
it’s been a long year. crawl me down off the ledge. or not.
Corner Stone
@Occasional Reader (okay, I’m here all the time): IMO, Larry is doing a little early historical re-writing to cover his ass a little.
All other reporting I’ve read from previous CYA interviews indicates he as much as anyone killed the presentation of a larger stimulus to the president.
harlana
@Corner Stone: Again, in reference to the NYT article, the title is grossly inaccurate, didn’t sound like the WH is gearing up for anything remotely resembling a “fight” right now. Do they really think ANYTHING they propose will pass the Congress? Srsly? I guess somehow they missed all those statements about the primary goal being Obama’s failure and ultimate destruction. I swear, if they could get away with lynching the guy, they would do it. But, you know, the rest of us are still supposed to behave in a calm, reasonable manner.
Mark S.
I hate these kinds of arguments:
And if my aunt had balls . . .
The universe is perfectly tuned for life? It seems like 99.9999999999% isn’t tuned for life at all, at least life in any way that we are familiar with.
I’ve seen arguments like this before, and they are just slightly more sophisticated versions of Intelligent Design.
Mark S.
@Occasional Reader (okay, I’m here all the time):
That sure as hell ain’t what the Republicans do. It must be a hell of a coincidence that most of our debates take place in a conservative framework (e.g. the debt “crisis”).
MikeBoyScout
Well, despite the best attempts of the teabaggers to destroy us, and despite the ineffectiveness of our Prez and his party to save us from eminent destruction, the Sunday she is still here begging to be enjoyed.
Enjoy yours and the people you love. ttyl
Danny
@harlana:
@Corner Stone:
I also read that NYTimes piece and as an on the record OBot that generally think they’re playing the macro message war game pretty neatly I didn’t quite like how they came across in that article. E.g. I agree with them that long term deficit reduction and short term stimuli is good policy, and a reasonable thing to aim for with this congress, but from the reporting all of that didnt quite come across.
Good to observe what they’re actually doing then and that is in fact pushing short term stimuli and long term deficit reduction. Watch the Presidents speech in Michigan or his weekly address.
They are pushing extensions of the payroll tax cuts and unemployment benefits, the infrastructure bank as well as some things that wont have a huge impact in the short run but looks good and may be good in the long run – e.g. patent reform and trade deals.
But the big problem is still the same: he cant do much more than that. He wont get another big stimulus through congress, unless public sentiment changes drastically, because it cant get through the House. If you dont like that we should have gotten more people to vote in the midterms. To some extent we have to put our faith in providence. If we dont like that, the only solution is not to lose.
Montysano
@trollhattan:
A blazing rendition of “Caleb Meyer” was one of the encores last night.
Maybe because we live in Dixie, “Down Along The Dixie Line” just floors me.
SIA
@Violet. #6 – we had several years of bad drought in Atlanta. The last year we used a pump and garden hose pull water out of a second story bathtub. It was a bit of a hassle but kept the garden alive. We also installed giant rain barrels at each gutter. So when there was rain we could have the water available. Every time it’s rained the last couple years I’m so relieved that drought is over.
Villago Delenda Est
@Mark S.:
What they mean is “perfectly tuned for life as we know it“.
It never occurs to them that there might be other ways for life to be “tuned”, with different constants, so that “life” might exist with another set of constants for which it is “perfectly tuned”.
The stupid, it burns.
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@Southern Beale: Did you know Maya Rudolph was Minnie Ripperton’s duaghter?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@SIA: HAD? You been outside today?
Chris
So, I’m sorry if this has been covered, but,
Perry comes in and T-Paw drops out. Doesn’t this mean the far right vote’s going to split while unifying the less-crazy vote around Romney?
pamelabrown
@Occasional Reader (okay, I’m here all the time): I think the White House should do both. Push through what little they can: “little” being the operative word since nothing can be brought to the floor without the Boner’s okay. Simultaneously, bring the big picture jobs program to the people loudly and often.
Not everything has to be either/or.
Gex
@Mark S.: Reminds me of Douglas Adam’s puddle analogy. A sentient puddle marvels that the hole in the pavement is the exact same shape and size as him.
The universe exists because it does, and we are simply discovering information about it. It should be “oh, that’s interesting” instead of “OMFG what if this number was different?!?!?!”
ant
@Corner Stone:
tell us how you make it.
please?
Gex
@SIA: Someone in the southwest was collecting rainwater that and got in trouble because they “don’t own the water rights” to their property.
Srsly. This country is so fucked up sometimes.
SIA
Raven what are you talking about?
ant
@Corner Stone:
tell us how you make it.
please?
Corner Stone
@Gex: “Life evolved in these exact conditions! Therefore, these exact conditions are the prelude to life evolving!”
Citizen_X
@Reality Check:
I know what you mean. I’m having a hard time giving a shit about your dilemma.
SIA
Hex. Wow. That is truly insane. What state was that?
Southern Beale
@RossInDetroit:
Here. my favorite scene. Now please, “way over the top”? Have you ever tried to have a conversation with a Teabagger? Tell me this isn’t every “he said, she said” debate we watch on CNN between a Teanut Republitard and a member of the reality based community.
We’re all living in a Mike Judge film.
RossInDetroit
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s more about the Cosmological Constant. Infinitesimally small differences in its value would result in universes without stars, collections of mass or in fact matter at all. Those are all necessary for any life to exist.
Brian Greene and uh… I forget the name of that Modeler woman who wrote the book on Branes.
Anyway, it’s a real thing but they’re talking about the mathematical underpinnings of reality, not the temperature and water content of planets.
Villago Delenda Est
@Corner Stone:
It’s always cause and effect with these idiots.
Corner Stone
@Gex: Where I am in TX there is a huge fuss about rain collection. Both county officials and local HOA’s hunt down a mofo if you try it.
In some respects I understand, because we have a massive mosquito problem, and neglectful barrel owners may be a hazard to neighbors.
But we’ve got it in a bad freakin way this year and we’re not seeing any kinds of relief.
It thundered here in the greater houston area for about 5 minutes yesterday and then I never saw a drop of the sweet stuff.
Southern Beale
@Raven (formerly stuckinred):
Yes and she’s director Paul Thomas Anderson’s … wife? Life partner .. whatever. Don’t know if they’re married but they have a bunch of kids together.
jwb
@Chris: I think that’s the Gooper establishment plan and why they’ve been pushing Perry into the race. Such plays have a tendency not to work as planned, however, and I still expect that Perry will now emerge as the nominee, with the product of lots of resentment from Mormons. I also think Perry is going to end up going full metal teabag in order to squeeze out Bachmann. The real question is whether Perry is a grifter or a believer. Even having watched him reasonably carefully for 10 years, I’m uncertain.
JohnR
Well, since politics is even more a choice between the truly horrible and the unbelievably, insanely abominable (and if you really think that Mr. Romney has a snowball’s chance in this period of ‘the guv’mint is eevil! Eeeeeevil’, you should lay off whatever you’re smoking because it’s laced with weed-killer), you might want to go out and enjoy the fall shorebird migration so you can tell your grandchildren that you saw these birds while they still existed in the wild. Wow, now that’s a sentence worth something. Yesterday at Bombay Hook Delaware, there were buttloads of Avocets (the most beautiful sandpipers and such prizes as Black-necked Stilts, White-faced Ibis and Red-necked Grebes (well, OK, no Rednecks, they were all over in Iowa wishing they could vote for Luke Perry or whatever his name is). Get out while you still can!
Gex
@SIA: It was Colorado (so I was a bit off geographically, although it’s the SW that needs the Colorado River not to dry up). It looks like they’ve amended the law somewhat since.
Link
ETA: Suddenly all those fuckers care about upstream actions having consequences downstream. HOOCOODANODE?
ETA2: Okay, that wasn’t the best link. But there was a dust up between an individual and some authority in Colorado about rainwater collection. My Google-Fu is on the fritz.
Brachiator
@Corner Stone:
Damn. I wonder who they’re polling, who their political strategists are. This path is not gonna work.
I was talking to some people about this over the weekend, and I can see the Administration, and some supporters, grabbing defeat with both hands. My hope was for a president and a bunch of Democrats in Congress who would be cagey enough to counter GOP obstructionism because the state of the economy required bold leadership and innovative strategy. Instead, what we are starting to hear is the Democrsts did the best they could because the bad Republicans wouldn’t let them govern, it’s the independents fault for not becoming loyal Democrats, you gotta vote for us anyway because Republicans are scary.
But at the end of the day, the economy is still crap, people don’t have jobs, and nobody, nobody did enough. The GOP don’t know and don’t care. The Democrats hearts may be in the right place, and they do some things right, but their standard operating procedure is to bumble along, get rolled by the opposition, and just promise to do better next time. Unfortunately, a lot of folks don’t have the time or resources to wait for the next time.
SIA
We pour mineral oil in the rain barrels, which floats on the top and prevents mosquitoes from hatching.
Alex S.
@Corner Stone:
Agreed. He killed Christina Romer’s worst-case suggestion of a $1,3 trillion stimulus (and in the end, the recession turned out to be even worse than that). I don’t know it for a fact, but I guess that the absolute political limit was the $1 trillion mark. Obama himself, in his first address to Congress, limited his options by suggesting a $900 billion stimulus, which was more in line with what Summers deemed possible. The final agreement was on $780 billion, but I guess it could have been $200 billion higher.
RossInDetroit
@Southern Beale:
I love the circular Brawndo argument. That scene must have been a ball to write. For weeks after we saw this, in conversation the word “water” had to be followed by “like out of the toilet”.
Maybeyouhadtobethere.
patrick II
@Mark S.:
I don’t mind those types of thoughts about the natural world — it really is amazing to me at least that the universe can hang together in some sort if near equilibrium despite all of the conflicting forces. However, it does offend me when people assert that the natural, deterministic description of order extends to our human society and economic order. That somehow the universe’s rules make it inevitable that some will be very rich while the undeserving will be destitute. First economics postulates an invisible hand and then the deterministic christians assign that hand’s movement to the will of God, and economic shortcomings to the wages of sin and lack of submission.
So, yeah that bugs me. But the amazing intricacy of a physical world that can exist, I find that amazing.
RossInDetroit
@RossInDetroit:
Lisa Randall. Frak, my brain is getting old. Read the thing for weeks and forgot the author’s name.
Southern Beale
@RossInDetroit:
No I totally get it! That entire film was full of circular arguments like that. I mean, it was stupid and sophomoric and if we didn’t have Tea Baggers doing their own version of this with their moronic “burn it down” shenanigans during the debt ceiling debate I probably wouldn’t have given it a second thought. Just something on the TV as I figure out what to take on my trip next week.
But this was the Tea Party! This was America after a generation of Tea Party politics running things.
Corner Stone
@ant: I’ll give you the short version, because the long version contains some satanic rituals where I sacrifice a goat and promise fealty to the dark lord. Again.
About two cups beef stock, on simmer til it reduces by about half.
In a saute pan I had butter, red pepper flakes, minced onion and garlic. On medium high heat until tender.
Then I tossed some sliced bella mushrooms into the saute pan and add about 2 table spoons of extra V olive oil. Do a couple pan flips to toss and then let sit at medium for about ten more minutes.
Add a couple table spoons of flour, sea salt, fresh ground pepper to the saute pan and stir til combined pretty well. Wait til it thickens fairly well. Lower heat to medium low / simmer.
Pour in a little of the beef stock, going slow. Stirring and watching to make sure it’s not too thin.
Reduce and continue adding beef stock as needed til you get what you want.
That’s the nuts and bolts of it. Not too hard, but I don’t do too many gravys as I generally let my meat do the talking. I went with a gravy this time because I fixed chopped beef steak and creamy white mashed taters to go with.
Danny
@pamelabrown:
There’s not only potential upside to aggressively pushing jobs legislation that has no shot at passing; there’s plenty potential downside as well.
The public – in contrast to us progressives – is not sold on keynesian stimulus economic policy. That should be pretty clear from a post Yglesias made some weeks ago that shows that more people are actually prone to buy the republican bullshit that stark austerity will create jobs. We should of course work to change that, but the best way to change that is by passing stimulus policies when they are needed, and helping people. To the extent that that is possible, Obama’s doing it.
Furthermore let’s not forget that the jobs situation actually is a huge weakness for Obama right now. Why should he spend political capital to put an even bigger spotlight on that situation in order to push policies that won’t get passed and wont help anyone? How successful would FDR have been if he only held passionate speeches but didnt actually put anyone to work in 1934 with 20% unemployment? That’s not very clear.
Southern Beale
@SIA:
What a good idea!
I haven’t noticed a lot of mosquitoes from our rain barrels, we have a screened top on them. But we have mosquitoes everywhere else. I use this garlic barrier stuff, works pretty well for a few weeks but you need to reapply it pretty often.
ant
@Corner Stone:
where you get this part from?
Raven (formerly stuckinred)
@SIA: We haven’t had any rain in a month in Athens. Maybe the lake is still full but there is a drought over here.
Corner Stone
@ant: If you mean the ingredient “beef stock”, I get it from the grocery store where they sell ready made beef stock. I don’t have the time or capacity to make my own beef stock at present, since I have no place to store the vat of it that is usually made when doing it from scratch.
I put the beef stock in a little pot and let it reduce.
Kroger’s sells it in a little white and blue box looking thing for about $3.
Citizen_X
@Villago Delenda Est and everyone else:
Jesus fuck! As RossInDetroit pointed out, these are questions raised by astrophysicists themselves, not creationists. (Questions which, granted, may have been mangled by the reporter.)
So you guys missed the whole point of the article, which was that they have developed a way to test for multiverses–which is insanely cool! Up till now, the whole multiverse idea was an interesting one, but purely in the speculative realm–and thus not really scientific. Now it’s becoming testable. That is a good thing.
Corner Stone
@Citizen_X: Astrophysicists are kind of lame. Seems like they need to get laid.
ant
@Corner Stone:
kk. thanks.
i was wonderin if that was what you ment.
that swanson liquid stuff.
thanks again
Josie
@Violet: I inadvertently started using grey water when I ran a hose from my washing machine in the garage out to a bed in the front yard (the drain was clogged). The plants all loved it and did much better than the ones on the opposite side of the yard. I do use laundry soap that has no color or perfume. I don’t know if that made a difference. We live in a perpetual state of drought and have for a long time. I use every bit of “old” water on my plants but have no real system set up for it.
Worked2Death
No one else can make me feel
The colors that Elizabeth Warren brings
Stay with me while we grow old
And we will regulate the banks this time
Corner Stone
@ant: Yes, sorry if I wasn’t clear. I used reduced beef stock as my liquid thinning agent instead of oil or water, etc.
Villago Delenda Est
@Citizen_X:
Yeah, but the astrophysicists are not postulating that the universe is the way it is because it was DESIGNED by some consciousness to be that way.
Which is what is the deal with these creationist idiots. They can’t accept that the universe it the way it is because, well, that’s how it is, and life adapted to those conditions. Doesn’t mean that life can’t evolve under a different rule set, at all. Just means we’ve got the rule set we’ve got, and that predicates the way things are. Not that by some miracle that life happened to be dropped into this universe by the baby Jeebus after he manipulated the rule set to support the life he wanted to drop here.
Johnny Coelacanth
@Corner Stone: When I first read your comment I speculated that you lived around the Edwards Aquifer recharge zone and that was why rain collection was bad.
But Houston? It was built on a bayou, FFS. Seems like you could remove every rain collection barrel in Harris county and never see a dip in the mosquito population.
Citizen_X
@Corner Stone:
Actually, I want to hear about that part.
Corner Stone
@Johnny Coelacanth: I know that, and you know that.
But try telling the HOA that.
And I’m not in Harris county, not that that matters a great deal to your point.
Brachiator
Just read an interesting article in a recent issue of The Economist, about how advertisers and businesses are catering to those monied, powerful trendsetters, senior citizens. Turns out that over a third of household income, $5.8 trillion, is in the hands of people over 70, in a country where men live to 80 and women live to 86. The contracting economy has made this generation who saved and did well when things were better a powerful demographic.
One cute thing. They don’t remember commercials, so word of mouth is more important. And they prefer salespeople in their 50s and 60s. They know that you cannot trust anyone under 30.
Dennis SGMM
@Brachiator:
“Improved patent protections for inventors”
Now that’s really going to energize voters. I can hardly wait for the bumper sticker.
Corner Stone
@Citizen_X: Eh, kind of old hat by now. We’re more like an old married couple going through our parts by rote nowadays.
Doesn’t seem to be any of the old fire left. I keep wanting to spice it up a little but he keeps saying, “This is how I’ve DONE IT FOR MILLENIA!” and blah blah.
beetle;dung
When you take a day off, from Dog walking, how do you tell your Dog?
The accusatory looks, the “I’m holding it” till we go somewhere appropriate to deposit this thing, stare…
Its brutal.
Citizen_X
@Corner Stone: I think the Bachmanns suggest using corn dogs. (For…whatever it is they do “together.”)
Corner Stone
@Dennis SGMM: Personally I find the obsessions with tax cuts as the only “viable” alternative to be disturbing.
SIA
Oops wrong email. (I hate the BJ mobile site)
@ Southern Beale. What’s the garlic barrier stuff and where would I get it? We do have a mosquito problem owing to a near-abandoned, unkempt property next door. Thanks!
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Violet: You can do what I did last summer. Stick a 5-gallon spackle bucket in the shower with you. You’ll get it a third full of potable water just getting the temperature right. Spray, etc will get it about 2/3 to 3/4 full. You won’t catch all the gray water, but you’ll get a bunch that would have gone to waste otherwise.
And hey! No plumbing, no building codes to mess with, and no expense!
Johnny Coelacanth
@Corner Stone: “And I’m not in Harris county…” eh, I was just trying to wow you with my comprehensive knowledge of local geography because I haven’t lived there since 1983. Despite that, I imagine that Houston is still essentially swampy, drought or no.
SIA
Poo. Can someone take one of my duplicate comments out of moderation?
Mark S.
@Dennis SGMM:
No kidding. All these inventors have been withholding their productivity waiting for improved patent protections. I know I’m going to be unveiling my car that runs on tap water next week now.
Amir Khalid
@beetle;dung:
Me not dog person, but I didn’t know there was an option for dog people not to go walkies.
Villago Delenda Est
@Brachiator:
Man, this is old news. Advertisers have been catering to seniors for ages. No toy commercials on the Huntley-Brinkley show, just incessant ads for Ex-Lax and overnight denture cleaners!
Jewish Steel
@harlana:
Quite the contrary, Obama is depending on folks like you to make the argument against Republican intransigence loudly and frequently.
“Being the only adult” might be wearing thin for those who watch him carefully, but those who watch him carefully don’t need any persuading for whom to cast their vote.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Obviously, these “analysts” with their big brains and “reporters” with their tiny pencils don’t understand what a privilege it is to live in a country which has President Obama at the helm. They should thank their lucky stars whether he does little, does nothing, or fiercely advocates for one or the other or neither.
.
.
Roger Moore
@Gex:
This is not “suddenly”. Water law in the West has been concerned with making sure that downstream users get their rightful share of the water since the area was part of New Spain*. Upstream users aren’t allowed to remove water from the system just because they’re upstream. Instead, the water goes to users according to their historical precedence. If there isn’t enough water to go around, the newcomers get nothing. Adding structures to capture more runoff counts as diverting downstream water; it isn’t your water even though it falls on your property.
*And the Spanish got their water law from the Moors. That’s right, folks, we already have Shariah Water Law in a large part of the USA. Time for the wingnuts to freak out!
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Gex: Yes, that’s Western water law: First in use, first in rights. Eastern water law says that whoever’s next to the water has a right to its use. The difference came about because of the much lower rainfall west of the 100th meridian.
There was a court case over rain barrels in Colorado a year or two ago, and it was decided in favor of the homeowners, IIRC.
beetle;dung
@Amir Khalid: You have to compensate with a grilled rib-eye, bone-in. The bone is the clincher, takes time….
wrb
@Citizen_X:
Not if a leak results and THEY come over.
Of all the horrible beings that populatenthe multiverse the Incarnate Auditors of Reality are the most creepy, IMO.
Ian
@Southern Beale:
This has been a common thought of anyone who sees that movie.
Mike Judge was smart enough to see it 15 years ago
Omnes Omnibus
@wrb: Creepier than Disney pop stars?
harlana
@Jewish Steel: Not me, the Dem leadership needs to do this. I would be happy to urge them to do so if I had a Dem rep or senator, but I don’t
Violet
@SIA:
Already have two rainwater collection barrels and they’ve got some water in them. We got a surprise pop-up shower in our neighborhood on Thursday and got 1/10 of an inch of rain. Given the size of roof and guttering from which we collect rainwater, we got quite a bit to top up the barrels. I’m crossing my fingers we get a bit today. Not holding my breath, though.
@Corner Stone: The City of Houston sold rainwater collection barrels at a discount last year. I’m surprised the HOA and county are that up in arms about it. The collection barrels had the mosquito screens. If they’ve got those, they don’t contribute to mosquito problems. Has anyone challenged your HOA?
amk
With t-paw being beaten by a straw of a poll, will mittens be promoted as the most boring rethug candidate of 2012 ?
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Roger Moore: New Spain eh? Here I thought it was climate that drove the difference in water law. I’ve actually learned something today.
Chauncey Devega
Shameless sharing and self promotion. For fun and thoughts…
Hiding in Plain Sight: Racism’s Role in the Tea Party GOP’s Efforts to Destroy President Barack Obama and the U.S. Economy
FlipYrWhig
@harlana:
The problem with that is that a huge chunk of Democrats in Congress don’t want to do anything stimulative either. Hell, Claire McCaskill was recently talking about refusing to renew the extended unemployment benefits. So it’s not easy to present What Democrats Would Do when so many Democrats wouldn’t do those things either. I’m sure Obama really is thinking of “Congress” and not just “Republicans” when he talks about the breakdown of political problem-solving, because the “moderate” and pro-business wing of the Democratic party also deserves no small amount of blame for the current state of affairs.
And I think, like Danny said above, that a strategy to campaign vigorously on what you _would_ do if not for obstruction and general assholery has a lot of upside but also a big potential downside, in that it exposes how your agenda doesn’t really stand a chance. That’s why I keep thinking that the killer app would be a way to talk about Republican obstruction that doesn’t sound like sour grapes and running to Mommy to say “No fair!” But it’s hard to figure out what that would sound like.
This internal debate between the advisors who counsel investing energy in the small but perhaps doable vs. those who prefer the large and absolutely un-doable because it makes a statement shows that the “Obot” vs. “Firebagger” wars reflect divisions at the heart of Obama’s own governance.
RossInDetroit
@Citizen_X:
Pretty neat article. It’s more accurate and complete than most of the “Gee! Astropysics!!1!” stuff that appears in the popular press.
Multiverse theory is pretty interesting. I also like the theory of extra ‘curled up’ dimensions in our own reality. Last I heard, a Grand Unified Theory required 6 or 7 extra dimensions to make the current math work.
Dennis SGMM
@Mark S.:
You’ll be consumed with jealousy when I unveil my concrete airliner!
wrb
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hmmm… I think you’ve got me there.
But we’ve already got them. Maybe they’ll leak out.
Elizabelle
Here’s Gillian Welch tour info.
http://www.gillianwelch.com/tour/
On East Coast now; coming to West Coast in September.
Thanks for the head’s up. Will give her a listen.
Violet
@Josie:
Thanks for the info! I’m going to try to collect it from my sink, like when I rinse dishes after hand washing them. It’s going to be a bit convoluted, but I now have a 2 gallon bucket I’m going to leave in the sink to catch the water. I think I can life 1.5 gallons of water without hurting my hip, so when it gets that full I’ll take it outside.
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
I like this suggestion, but I can’t carry 5 gallons of water right now since I’m still rehabbing my hip problem. Maybe I could set up a siphon or something.
Jennifer
@Ian: Uh, no. Idiocracy was made in 2005 or 2006. Judge had the raw material right there in front of him after watching the first 4 or 5 years of the Bush presidency.
I frickin’ LOVE that movie, BTW, but the rest of my family is irritated by it. I had posted that clip where the cabinet is all arguing about the virtues of Brawndo right after that episode where Obama showed up at the GOP retreat and completely schooled the morons on the health care issue, under a “Shorter” heading.
FlipYrWhig
@Corner Stone:
Presumably because Republicans (and “moderate” Democrats) might approve some kinds of tax cut, while they won’t approve anything else. I don’t know why that’s “disturbing” rather than an admission of being constrained by the Republican majority in the House.
Corner Stone
@Omnes Omnibus: Do the Incarnate Auditors of Reality use autotune to conquer their vast hordes?
Then no.
Roger Moore
@Violet:
With HOAs, you never know what they’ll get their knickers in a twist about. HOA boards have a tendency to attract petty tyrants, so it’s always possible that they’re making a fuss about them for no good reason. They might object to rain barrels because they don’t like their aesthetics or because somebody on the HOA board misunderstood their legal status, or because they don’t like the person who put out the rain barrels and this is a convenient way to harass them.
Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason
@Violet: If weight’s a problem (and yes, 5 gal is a lot for me, too (8 lb/gal?)) try it with two of your 2-gallon buckets.
harlana
@FlipYrWhig: Well, you know, if that’s the case, we as a party are in sad, sad shape. If we can’t get it together and pick up the ball, now of all times, and stand up for basic Dem principles that benefit the working and middle classes, who are hurting badly now, then we are screwed. Those (the unemployed) who haven’t already given up, will soon do so and they will stay home, because they have been beaten into utter submission by this economy and haven’t the remotest hope than anything will change for the better.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig:
It’s “disturbing” because I am disturbed by it. Ergo hac qui tam post haste.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore:
Or because I live deep in wingnuttia and rain barrels are Al Gore’s bathtubs, each one an invite for a hippie to start living in your backyard.
Jennifer
@Violet: My friend in Atlanta had a large plastic laundry basket type container in her shower during the drought there which probably held about 7 or 8 gallons when full. Don’t sweat not being able to lift that much at once; get a smaller container like a plastic cat food container (Deli Cat comes in these) that you can just submerge and fill – that way you won’t have to tote more than you can physically handle. The key is getting a container as cachebasin that’s large enough in diameter to allow you to fill a smaller container out of it easily – these days, not that hard to find. Those Rubbermaid rough totes would do the job quite nicely.
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig:
The disturbing part is because either the admin really believes in tax cuts as effective policy, or they don’t but refuse to challenge the open space regarding what might be effective policy.
Either way, it’s “disturbing”.
Roger Moore
@Brother Shotgun of Sweet Reason:
To some extent it’s the climate, but big chunks of Spain have a similar climate. The Spanish transplanted their water law to the new world, and it stuck in the Southwest US because it’s appropriate to the local conditions.
trollhattan
@Elizabelle:
Jeez, a state of 38 million and three stops? Sigh.
Corner Stone
“Tax cuts” like the payroll tax cut possibly being extended, help people with a payroll. Working people.
They will immediately spend that $1000 in consuming something, most likely food and energy, and that cash will reposit right back into Exxon’s coffers.
What is the plan to help the 15M unemployed? A generation or more of human capital being wasted.
Ian
@Roger Moore:
Fixed
eemom
@FlipYrWhig:
As you know, I have a lot of respect for your opinion. But I’ve come to the point where what’s “doable” doesn’t cut it for me anymore.
What just happened — a tiny minority of crazed idiots/political opportunists essentially forcing, at gunpoint, every sane element of government to capitulate to an utterly insane and utterly destructive agenda — ought not to have been DOABLE either, but they did it.
Again and again it’s been said, reason and pragmatism only works when your opponents are reasonable pragmatists. Obama’s are NOT. You can’t just sit there and act like you’re still playing the game according to the rules when your opponent has grabbed the game board and smashed it over your head.
Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
The problem isn’t with tax cuts, the problem is with “tax increases.” I put that last in quotes because the dialog has shifted so far away from rationality that closing a special interest loophole is now a “tax increase,” ending a government subsidy to a profitable industry is a “tax increase,” and the convoluted reasoning that continues the practice of taxing billionaire hedge fund managers at 15%. Those who advocate closing loopholes or ending subsidies or taxing investment income at something more than a pittance just seem to allow themselves to be shouted down or outmaneuvered by the wingers.
beetle;dung
@eemom: Exactly
amk
@ cornerstone whining on & on about Obama not calling out the rethugs. He did plenty of that calling out on the stump in 2010. Fuck he even walked into their den and schooled them about HCR. And in return, all he got from the mindless minions called american voters was shellacking. So he wised up and rightfully ignored the idjits from left.
FlipYrWhig
@harlana:
We as a party include a lot of Mark Warners and Claire McCaskills and Mary Landrieus, whose sense of economic fairness competes with another sense of “cutting spending” to balance budgets and yet another of providing incentives for the private sector as the appropriate engine for job creation. I think they believe in “basic Dem principles” but not as first-order articles of faith. It is a huge problem with the Democratic party from an ideological and policy-making standpoint — and, alas, it is also a way to get Democrats elected in territory hostile to liberalism, because it corresponds with sentiments that loyal red-state Democrats really do uphold.
IMHO half the party, in terms of rank-and-file voters as well as elected officials, sees itself as Not THAT Kind Of Democrat. And they mean the kind most of us who hang out here are: bleeding-heart liberals.
eemom
@harlana:
I heartily second everything you’ve said on this thread.
trollhattan
Do we need a cruise missile to rearrange the Hoover Institute furniture? The a.m.’s Weekend Edition featured an HI “economist” spouting how it’s business “uncertainty” that’s keeping the economy from leaping ahead (paired with the usual list of commie stuff creating that uncertainty) while our paper has an HI “fellow” telling us Jerry Brown is no Chris Christie (by my estimate, he’s about 0.4 Chris Christies) and it was only Jerry’s hubris that prevented him from a budget deal with those helpful California Republicans.
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/08/14/3834712/why-has-jerry-brown-become-so.html
Where do these asshats get their funding, and what’s Condie doing for her wingnut welfare there?
Dennis SGMM
@FlipYrWhig:
Presumably Republicans (and “moderate” Democrats) might approve of paying the unemployed to take a tablespoon of potassium cyanide before going to bed tonight.
Roger Moore
@Corner Stone:
Wait a second. I thought one of the big objections to hippies is that they don’t take baths, so how can a rain barrel be a hippie bathtub? Riddle me that!
FlipYrWhig
@eemom:
It depends on if the real game is the one happening across the board, or if that whole scene is like a Milgram experiment being staged for the benefit of spectators. IMHO there’s something to be gained by playing according to the rules, even if your opponent won’t, when the crowd watching has a chance to choose either the rule-bound player or the board-smashing player as their new best friend.
But, yeah, I don’t have any problem with a conclusion that the best course of action is in fact to spotlight what you _want to do_ but are being prevented from doing. As usual, my interest in these threads tends to be in answering the question “Why would the Obama team be acting the way it does?” and less so in “What should they be doing differently?”
Dennis SGMM
@amk:
I thought that the Democrats were the party of the left. If not then Obama’s base must be The Silent Majority.
Good luck with that.
pamelabrown
@Danny: Danny, that’s not what I’m saying. Let me try to be more succinct: anything big or grand has to be accompanied by how we pay for it. The president also has the opportunity to contrast himself with the extreme rump of the TGOP who has taken over and silenced anyone who would dare make government work.
Roger Moore
@trollhattan:
Is it just me, or does any institution inspired by and named after Herbert Hoover automatically lack credibility on depression economics?
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM:
I think we haven’t actually heard much of that shouting match yet. My sense is that the general public shares your view, and mine, and does not find it reasonable to count closing loopholes and ending subsidies as “tax increases,” and that we will hear a lot more about that as the Super-Congress discusses the revenue side.
Villago Delenda Est
@Roger Moore:
No one said that DFH punchin’ was not without its inherent plethora of cognitive dissonance situations to rival that of Orwell.
Corner Stone
@Roger Moore:
No, no, no. They don’t take baths. They study the flora & fauna that thrive due to rain catchment implementation.
Al Gore is the one who comes by in the full moonlight and bathes in the barrels.
The hippies just thatch and weave baby, thatch and weave.
Corner Stone
@amk: Hilarious.
jron
well, I hope making fun of mitt for his “corporations are people” comment isn’t done yet, because I’m still enjoying it.
I decided to expand to include other people whenever I feel like it:
http://corporationsarepeople.tumblr.com/post/8912398982/and-they-like-to-jog-armed-with-hollow-point
I need some submissions folks!! (you can submit with the tiny ‘ask’ button if you’re not on tumblr)
Jewish Steel
@harlana: Dem leadership has a host of parochial concerns which may or may not coincide with your message of choice. Plus, the higher you go, the greater level of abstraction for Joe Loinfovoter. Neither the president nor Dem leadership can proselytize directly* to people you know and deal with on a daily basis. But you can.
*without being a total pest or endangering your job, of course.
harlana
@eemom: Thanks!
Corner Stone
@eemom: Ok, this all sounds great.
Now show me exactly what you would have President Obama do to accomplish something “doable”.
Let’s hear what you suggest he do with a Republican House and an iffy Democratic Congress otherwise.
What’s your plan? Let’s hear your plan.
Brachiator
@Villago Delenda Est:
The degree to which businesses and advertisers are catering to the elderly in Japan is new, and is distinctly different from the US, where teens still rule (when was the last time that the studios mounted a massive marketing campaign to pitch a summer blockbuster to seniors?). An example from the article:
This is a level of targeted marketing that goes far beyond what usually happens here.
Elsewhere:
The speed of light is the same everywhere (OK, mostly), and it may be that the rules of life are the same everywhere. It’s just that we may not yet know what all the rules are.
But I take your point that creationists (and Andrew Sullivan) insist on interpreting science from a religious and philosophical angle that requires design and a designer.
Scientists sometimes fall into a related trap. There was a time when scientists insisted on a kind of cosmological exceptionalism. Our solar system was the only one with planets and the only one with life. The one and only, don’t even bother looking for planets anywhere else ’cause there ain’t none.
And now we are almost at the point where schoolkids have to find a new planet as part of their homework assignment (in those schools that still require homework and don’t believe that the universe is just a few thousand years old).
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM:
You say this with contempt, but I think there’s a degree of truth to it. If you accept my theory that at most half of Democrats are liberals, then it’s not surprising when the Democrats act like something other than “the party of the left” and when Democratic politicians act like liberals are not the base. The loyal red-state Democrat is not exactly _rara avis_: think of all those sun belt governors who aren’t at all liberal, like Phil Bredesen in TN and Steve Beshear in KY and Mike Beebe in AR.
trollhattan
@Roger Moore:
Always thought there should be a trailerpark called Hoovertown.
Also, too, isn’t professional scold Margaret Hoover his descendant? She’s not shy about citing him on things economic.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
It doesn’t much matter what the general public thinks on this. The average Joe hears tax cut and think that it includes him, but also strangely thinks that cuts are going to affect someone else, especially the “unworthy” poor and nonwhite.
But every major tax program on the table would get rid of middle class deductions and credits. There is a promise to get rid of corporate tax breaks, but the bait and switch is that corporations and wealthy individuals would still get massive tax cuts preserved or created fresh.
Stranger still, senior Democrats in the Gang of Six have endorsed this plan as well. This poison will be sold to voters as “necessary” to reduce the deficit and to save the economy. And before they finally succumb, someone will post something about “the best deal possible.”
And no, for the sake of the slow in the room, I do not view Obama as a stealth sellout. The Democrats are getting outmaneuvered by the GOP on almost every level when it comes to tax and economic policy. The Democrats are fighting a rear action, thinking that they have accomplished something if they push cuts forward and temporarily save targeted credits. But the Republicans are setting the terms of the debate and making it impossible for Democrats to ever propose new spending programs even if they regain a majority in the House of Representatives since they have agreed to the principle of deep spending cuts.
I honestly don’t know what happened to the crew that managed to get health care reform passed.
amk
@Dennis SGMM: The left I meant is the keyboard kommandos of the blogisthan . The real base is still silently behind him.
harlana
@Jewish Steel: I appreciate what you’re saying, but honestly, I was unemployed for 2 years and I’ve run out of activist energy and really, pls understand, I live in Redstate USA and you just cannot talk to these people, it’s like talking to a rock, except rocks are more realistic, logical and compassionate.
That said, I have considered becoming active in my local Dem party, now that my situation has improved and I feel a little more empowered and less of a depressed cave-dweller. It’s a complete exercise in futility, but at least I could associate with some like-minded people.
I live in SC, if that helps.
gogol's wife
@Worked2Death:
Yes, Minnie Riperton, one “p.”
Omnes Omnibus
@harlana:
It can make a difference at least as far as keeping your spirits up goes.
Yutsano
@harlana: FWIW you do have Jim Clyburn. So I’d call that a definite plus.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
I am told he has the power to yank every rich congressional ass from its, um, “hard earned” August vacation back to this hellhole of a city, and force them to sit there and listen while he demands they pass a whatever trillionty dollar stimulus and a restoration of Eisenhower era tax rates because if they don’t we are well and truly fucked as a nation and we’re gonna see “American Spring” here in the streets.
No, they won’t do it — but he can force them to sit there and DEBATE it, while the earth cracks from the weight of every last emmessemm jaw dropping to the ground at his AUDACITY and every fucking camera is riveted on HIM, and THEM.
Do you suppose that might impress some people? Even an unpleasant, ungracious, self-consciously cynical misanthrope/misogyn such as your vile self?
gogol's wife
@eemom:
So what is he supposed to do? What? He had a press conference where he was a little bit angry and he got called a dick on national television. Just tell me what he’s supposed to do when the Tea Party is in control of the House of Representatives. Screaming on television won’t accomplish anything at all, nothing.
RossInDetroit
@Brachiator:
Here, yes it is. But there appears to be no reason that these constants as well as the Planck Length, Cosmological Constant, strengths of gravity and the weak and strong atomic forces HAVE to be that way. These happen to be the local conditions in our universe but if any of them was slightly different the universe would be completely, radically changed. Or be a different universe. Which other universe might also exist.
gogol's wife
@Dennis SGMM:
The Democrats are not “the party of the left.” The Democrats now include all sorts of people who would have been called “Republicans” when I was a little girl. Get used to it.
amk
@eemom: You left out ‘he should wield a shotgun while he is at it’.
gogol's wife
@eemom:
If he does that (I mean if he follows your prescription exactly), you can say hello to President Bachmann/Perry in Jan. 2013.
Brachiator
More Open Thread whimsey (it shouldn’t be all doom and gloom): I keep reading about how the iPad is just a toy, and that users should just STFU and get a damn laptop. Because if it ain’t got a keyboard, it ain’t a real computating machine.
And then I see this thread on a forum titled, “Where are you iPadding from?”
You see places like San Francisco, Bihar, India, Indonesia. Then, “still on the couch in Downers Grove,” “in my living room in Cheelmsford, Ontario Canada,” “um, in a big old wingback chair during a wicked loud thunderstorm in Fleming Island, Florida.” And this:
“from my hospital bed.”
This reminds me of people who kept asking why anyone would buy an e-book reader like the Nook or Kindle when they could get everything they wanted from a PC or laptop.
Elsewhere: Now that almost everybody has a smartphone with a digital camera and camcorder, it’s getting harder for Hollywood to keep movie shoots secret. Lots of clips of the Batwing from the new Dark Knight movie all over the place.
And Leonardo di Caprio as J Edgar Hoover?
Dennis SGMM
@gogol’s wife:
To me, as an old DFH, it doesn’t seem as though the Democratic party is the party of anything these days. They’re not the Republicans, big whoop. That’s the way it is but I refuse to get used to it.
harlana
What would be the harm of proposing an infrastructure renewal program throughout the country? So simple to understand, I mean I’m agreeing with Tweety here, which is starting to scare me, but why can’t these Dem reps, running or incumbent, do this in their respective districts and dare their republican opponent to oppose such a common sense measure. With high unemployment, it would be popular with everyone who needs a job! It would create jobs, including private sector jobs, and eventually save money. What am I missing here? I certainly know our roads here are awful, throughout the state, there IS a lot of work to be done and we really don’t need more bridges collapsing into the water and killing people do we?
That’s my idea which I sort of borrowed from Tweety. I’m not proud of it, but I believe in full disclosure.
gogol's wife
@Dennis SGMM:
They’re not the people who want to destroy Medicare and Social Security and everything supporting education and the arts, and I could list a few hundred other things they’re not going to do that the Republicans ARE going to do if they get the power. If that isn’t good enough for you, I’m sorry. It’s good enough for me. I’m going to need Medicare in a few years from now and I’d appreciate it if it were still there.
eemom
@gogol’s wife:
I don’t believe that. I am actually naive enough to think that enough people –i.e., people with the sense to comprehend how desperately fucked over they and everyone else who isn’t a gazillioniare will be if we stay on our current path — would react positively to that kind of, well, leadership.
Also, I honestly question whether his own reelection should be the controlling factor in his determination of what is best for the country. I guess that’s naive too.
And to respond to your previous comment, no one says he has to “scream.” He could do what I’ve described with every ounce of his pristine, Mr. Cool, adult-in-the-room demeanor perfectly intact. Indeed there is nothing more consistent with that persona — it’s like the parent pulling the car over to the side of the road when the brats are squabbling in the back seat and telling them sternly that no one’s going anywhere until they STOP IT.
gogol's wife
@eemom:
If you think that’s how the media would play it, you watch even less television than I do. I only read the New York Times, and I know they would crucify him for it. ETA: And he’d BETTER be worrying about his reelection, because the alternative would be a disaster. See my comment above.
eemom
@harlana:
don’t worry. Tweety didn’t think it up himself — he’s just parroting what actual smart people have said.
FlipYrWhig
@gogol’s wife: Being ballsier and more confrontational could work IF he could count on the support of the entire Democratic party. But that’s never what happens. There are always the Democrats in the MSM speed-dial list who can be counted upon to say “This combative stance is lamentable and partisan and undignified for a president, especially one who promised to change the tone.” I don’t think it’s the Angry Black Man thing, it’s just the latest iteration of the way that In-Your-Face Democrat makes the media and some fairly big chunk of the public, even the Democratic-leaning public, very uncomfortable, because they prefer (and say so in polls) working together, seeking compromises, and the whole litany of things abhorrent to the liberal blogosphere.
harlana
@Dennis SGMM: You know, it was when we invaded Iraq that I began to realize that this is not the party I thought it was. It was heartbreaking and I felt so incredibly naive. I realized, too, that America was not the country I thought it was. Boy, was I dumb, but at least I didn’t vote for Bush.
harlana
@eemom: I’ve been saying it long before Tweety but the fact that he’s yelling about this almost every night on the teevee was a little unexpected.
FlipYrWhig
@Dennis SGMM:
But when was it ever ideologically consistent? I mean, in the halcyon days of actual dirty fucking hippies the Democratic party still had all those Dixiecrats in it, who took decades to fade away.
eemom
@gogol’s wife:
the media loves a show, Mrs. Wife. And that would be a show to end all shows.
It wouldn’t matter what know-nothing bobblebots were babbling, because the focus of attention would — for fucking once — be squarely where it needs to be: on WHAT needs to be done to fix the country, who is willing to do it, and who is not.
You have raised no substantive objection to what I’ve said — it is all about perception. Well, believe it or not, the president of the United States has the power to control how he is perceived.
The real objection to what I’m saying is that it’s bold and high risk. Which, of course, is exactly why Obama would never do it.
Brachiator
@RossInDetroit:
Define local. This stuff is interesting, and yes there is some current research that is tantalizingly suggestive, but you don’t really have to jump through hoops of coming up with alternate universes to suggest that we don’t understand all the rules of this universe.
@Corner Stone:
Sometimes I commute with people shuttling between JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory) and CalTech. A pretty diverse crew. And while there are still some nerdy guys, I find it interesting that many of the women in science are babelicious as well as brainylicious. And one of the hottest women I’ve seen also happens to be an astrophysicist.
FlipYrWhig
@harlana:
He has actually proposed this, repeatedly and recently. Google “infrastructure bank.”
eemom
@FlipYrWhig:
I am at the point where I think we are so far over the edge that — from the perspective of what would save the country — there is almost literally nothing left to lose. Thus, bold, extreme measures are called for even if he can’t count on the rank and file p*ssies to have his back.
gogol's wife
@eemom:
Dear eemom, You wrote, “You have raised no substantive objection to what I’ve said—it is all about perception. Well, believe it or not, the president of the United States has the power to control how he is perceived.”
My substantive objection is (a) the Republicans control the House of Representatives by a substantial margin, and many of them are crazy and (b) it is a clear and obvious fact that the president of the United States does not have the power to control how he is perceived. Never has, never will. George W. Bush got perceived nicely because he was on the side of the moneyed interests, not because he was in control of anything. ETA: I have to go work now and stop procrastinating.
Elizabelle
Kind of a sweet story about transit museums and the autistic kids who love to visit them, being obsessed and enchanted with trains.
Got me to tear up.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/14/nyregion/children-with-autism-connecting-via-bus-and-train.html
FlipYrWhig
@eemom: The Democrats’ m.o. is always to start with the 46% they can count on, and then try as hard as possible not to alienate the middle with big sudden movements. I’m not sure a high-risk strategy is called for when you’re at worst in a dead heat with your opponents. Think of Jack Conway running the Aqua Buddha ad against Rand Paul. It turned a close race into a blowout for the other side. He probably wouldn’t have won anyway, but it was a high-risk move that tanked.
harlana
@FlipYrWhig: But how do you compromise with somebody holding a loaded gun at your head? You give them what they want and in return, they don’t kill you, if you’re lucky. So is it really reasonable to try and be reasonable with such people? It is a waste of energy and time better used to shore up the Dem cause, cynically taking advantage of a horrible economy and destructive republican temper tantrums. Now is the time to create and burnish a Dem brand and decimate the republican brand into the pile of horseshit it deserves to be.
And really, you don’t have to attack republicans, just present the facts, as they say, facts have a liberal bias, about their record and simply ask, do these policies support the middle class or do they undermine it and American working class values?
Elizabelle
@FlipYrWhig:
Obama needs to propose this stuff during a prime time address.
Even if he does not get all of what he wants, people will know he’s out trying. And maybe wonder why the GOP won’t pass legislation that favors the middle class too.
You take a busy person or couple who’s trying to stay informed via cable and evening news, and maybe Yahoo news? Or what they hear from other soccer parents?
Nevuh gonna hear Obama proposing these remedies. Just lotso attitude — skinny black dude is flip flopping again. He’s not a leader. He leads from behind. He doesn’t care. He has no passion. He’s no different than George W Bush.
Corner Stone
@eemom:
Congress is a co-equal branch. How can he MAKE them do anything? Make them debate anything at all? He may be able to recall them but the Republicans run the House, and they may feel like debating anti-Planned Parenthood bills.
And the MSM will describe it as an executive overreach, and a partisan gimmick that’s damaging for the discourse.
So, your “plan” really boils down to the “bully pulpit” because the president can’t initiate legislation. The Republicans are absolutely opposed to helping him for any reason, and the Democrats would rather talk about the deficit.
Now, other than Obama being an angry black president, what is your plan to get legislation passed for new job growth?
harlana
@FlipYrWhig: Well, good, thanks for that. I’m dumb. I hope WH doesn’t give up on it just because it may not pass the senate. I’d rather hear more of this and less about free trade.
Phylllis
@harlana: Where in SC?* I’m below Columbia, abt 60 miles west of Augusta. Where the majority of folks believe The King James version of The Bible to be ‘The Word of God’. If you try to explain there was a (homosexual) King James, who wanted the book revised, you get tarred & feathered.
*Just your general area-not planning to come to your house or anything :-).
harlana
@Corner Stone: I don’t believe he would be risking being the angry black man to talk sense to the American people about what needs to be done, why and who is standing in the way. He’s always going to be considered an angry, militant, baby-eating Mooslim by certain groups no matter how conciliatory he tries to be, so I don’t see what’s the harm in drawing clear distinctions between yourself and the opposition.
harlana
@Phylllis: I’m in Bob Jones territory (nuff said), I’m from the midlands but have lived up here longer than I want to admit. Someday, I hope to escape to the beach.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
I never said I had a plan that would pass the current Congress. I am talking about a larger plan — one that would wake people the fuck up to what is really going on, so that, as someone said above, the republican/tea party edifice would crumble into the toxic dust that it is.
It is POSSIBLE, as long as we still have fair elections in this country, to get enough people motivated to vote in them that the stranglehold of the rich on government could be broken.
What is YOUR plan, Mr. Hate-Everything? Because when you talk about “executive overreach,” it seems to me you are as much a slave to CW as any Obot you’ve ever ridiculed on this blog.
One might almost think you’re not interesting in making things better at all — just madly in love with the sound of your own sneering voice.
Phylllis
@Yutsano: My congressman. Which I take great pride in saying. Mainly because I am proud, but also because it pisses off all the right people around here.
Corner Stone
@eemom:
So what you’re saying is you have nothing beyond the “bully pulpit”.
Because if you can’t lay out exactly what it will take to get the votes in the House and the needed 60 in the Senate, you’re no better than the worst pie in the sky firebagger asshole here. Just slagging our own side for no gain, and doing the rightwings job for them. You might as well dust off your FDL membership number and start doing myDiary at FDL.
Phylllis
@harlana: Egad. You are in deep wingnuttia. I think there’s quite a few SC folks on here. We might need to think about a meetup.
Dee Loralei
@Chauncey Devega: That was a great essay! Thanks for sharing.
And as 2012 rolls around it’s gonna get mighty uglier.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
This reduces everything to election strategy and ignores the whole point of the exercise, which is to govern well.
Either way, I don’t think this strategy is working. Trying “not to alienate” the middle is not the same thing as working actively for their interests. And people care far more about things getting done than about big swings or small swings or no swing at all.
@harlana:
The problem is that an infrastructure plan that capitulates to the Republicans on individual and corporate taxes will still get you nowhere. Unfortunately, the Democrats don’t seem to have a clear idea of what tax policy should look like, or how it might be connected to rescuing the economy and creating jobs.
The other weird thing is that we are living in a time when Republican state governors are rejecting any infrastructure proposals. I wonder how much opposition FDR got from states (as opposed to Republicans in Congress) for his Depression era programs.
eemom
Seriously, I can’t believe the extent to which people here are ready to roll over and play dead for the perceived invincibility of the republican/emmessemm narrative. WTF?
eemom
@Corner Stone:
oh, fuck you, asshole. You really aren’t any more interested in an intelligent discussion than a teatard, are you?
What’s YOUR plan? Huh?
harlana
@eemomn
@191: Srsly, I don’t get it
harlana
@Phylllis: yeh, let’s do that, it’s pretty bad here – I’m lucky I have a few Dem friends but it is indeed a small, somewhat fearful group
gogol's wife
@eemom:
It’s the narrative plus the Republican control of the House of Representatives. That’s not a small detail that can be overlooked. I’m not rolling over, I’m going to work for Obama.
Corner Stone
@eemom: Don’t try and deflect. You’ve emerged from your wanker chrysalis into the full beautiful firebagger butterfly you were always meant to be.
You’re the one telling us all here how disappointed you are in the president for not “forcing” Congress to make things better for the middle class.
To me, that sounds like the usual pathetic firebagger paean to the mythical bully pulpit. Where the only plan submitted is for the president to stoke the rhetorical fire of the voting populace, and then ride their fury into some change in the status quo.
Show us all here where the votes are going to come from. What will Obama suggest that can get Nelson, McCaskill and the Maine Queens to all sign on. How will he “make” Boehner put a favorable jobs bill on the floor?
Until you can answer that you’re just Jane-ing it up here.
Corner Stone
God, this never would’ve happened if the Nicks were still alive.
Elie
@Corner Stone:
My God, Corner Stone — are you the same Corner Stone as before?!
Your points are understood and well received on my part…
(eemom — haven’t read the whole thread so will read what you wrote in more detail as I go)
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: You can’t prove that.
aisce
lol at corner stone trolling eemom. and then elie not getting it. just another day on balloon juice…
the libyan civil war looks to be in its last throes, as least for this stage of fighting. tripoli is surrounded, so either the war will be over within the month or we’re about to see an urban clusterfuck that rivals iraq circa 2004. we’ll just see. and then of course is the inevitable split between the western fighters who’ve done 90% of the fighting and the work, and the eastern screwups who have all the money and diplomatic recognition at the moment. so that’ll be fun. one thing is for sure, french and swiss/austrian and qatari contractors are gonna make a killing on reconstruction. adjust your stock portfolios accordingly.
Elie
@eemom:
Now I have been reading along going from your most recent to upthread comments and this one sticks out:
Well, I disagree with this statement and am truly surprised that you would make such a statement.. esp knowing the MSM and the current firebagger blogs and how the President is characterized on those. I take you at your word though… why would you nto say what you really believe?
Whats going on with you these days? You seem quite different and demoralized in a way that surprises me for someone with brains…
Elie
@aisce:
Yeah, I missed it.
Hard to come in on the middle of a thread and always get it. Sometimes even then I miss the extraordinary sharp repartee that some here are capable of. aisce, you are just so COOL…
gogol's wife
@Elie:
I missed it too. I thought Corner Stone had gotten reasonable all of a sudden.
Elie
@gogol’s wife:
Sarcasm can be hard to catch for people with whom you don’t necessarily engage or know directly …
I should have known better about Corner Stone anyway… Interesting that he can feign making good logical arguments but goes stupid as soon as he makes arguments for what he actually believes.
And thankfully, he has SUPER COOL aisce to keep all the correct personality and idea attribution straight.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elie: How do you know what Corner Stone actually believes?
aisce
@ elie
poor dear. if you haven’t figured out how the stuck-eemom-corner stone love triangle works by now, i’m afraid i can’t help you. let me guess, you’re continually surprised when matoko loko doesn’t make any goddamned sense either?
Elie
@aisce:
fuck off
Elie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I dont. I am also not a mind reader. What people put out is all I have…
Omnes Omnibus
@Elie: I am just saying that I would not presume to know what Corner Stone, more than just about anyone on this blog, thinks about anything. I believe him on nachos and his perception of the hotness of women. Beyond that, he may very well be yanking your or my chain at any given moment. It is part of his charm, such as it is.
Corner Stone
@Elie: So Elie, are you with me against the firebagging eemom? Have my sound and logical arguments convinced you we are on the correct side and her FDL mindset has lost the thread of why we are where we are?
Elie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I get that — not only about him but anyone else who blogs here… the persona are not fixed nor are the handles — we have plenty of spoofs…
that said, I can only commment on what is presented. Only people like aisce (the COOL ONE) seems to care about keeping the characters straight and has the time and apparently nothing else better to do than to to keep score.
Elie
@Corner Stone:
Well I am glad that you came to your senses, but I am not ready to jump on eemom as a firebagger —
No matter what, you will always be my widdle troll doll! Smooch.
Corner Stone
@Elie: Why not? Didn’t she propagate the firebagger myth of the “bully pulpit”? And when challenged, didn’t she fail to provide a plan for getting “the votes”?
Or does the definition of heresy change as needed here at BJ, depending on the flavor?
Do sound and logical arguments hold up when you agree with them, then fail when they disagree with what you personally believe to be correct?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Dee Loralei:
Yes, it is an excellent description of how we got where we are and what a clusterfuck the ‘opposition’ is that Obama is having to deal with.
Crazy racist fuckers who hate him with a burning passion and there’s no chance of ever negotiating anything with them. They want to see him fail and that’s the end of it.
Great writeup Chauncey!
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone: Stop teasing Elie.
eemom
@Omnes Omnibus:
imo, that’s because he doesn’t really think anything about anything. I.e., he has no actual beliefs or values; he’s just a sociopathic troll to the core. I would say this thread is particularly compelling evidence of that.
eemom
@Elie:
please ignore the creature. In his ultimate fantasy world he’d be the snake in the garden of Eden.
Since, here in the real world, he’s too insignificant to actually accomplish anything evil, he’s reduced to playing off decent well meaning people like you and me against each other on a blog. A fairly pathetic existence for a would-be Mephistopheles.
aisce
@ eemom
now that’s just not true. corner stone is madly, deeply, desperately in love with hillary clinton and he doesn’t care who knows it.
(i wonder if elie will continue to pout and call me cool in allcaps now that i’m making fun of corner stone, or if she only reserves that bit of dramatics when she’s the target.)
aisce
@ eemom
also, too, it’s true, eemom. you’re being a total “bully pulpit!” firebagger right now. just a shameful lack of self-awareness.
Jewish Steel
In CS’s defense it gets mighty lonely over at The Confluence.
That kind of isolation does shit to your mind, man.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
@Corner Stone:
No, no, and no. She’s propagating the firebagger myth of the black bull’s Coke can. And that makes her a fool, because it’s not a myth.
.
.
FlipYrWhig
There’s nothing wrong with the “bully pulpit” as a _rhetorical strategy_. “Obama should talk like this and make his case for that, because I’d like it better, it’s win people over, and it might generate some interesting media coverage.” Great!
The error is in presuming that the bully pulpit is also a way to get good legislation through Congress. It’s never going to accomplish that. The reason is because even when the bully pulpit works as designed, and the people gravitate towards what Obama wants, Republicans aren’t so shaken by that movement that they bail on their reflexive anti-Obama position and embrace what is popular with the people.
Maybe some of that is because angry people don’t do enough contacting their representatives to harangue them and make them fearful of not getting reelected. But I don’t think even that would work, because the current Republican political theory is to refuse and obstruct and dare their voters to toss them out if they don’t like it. They’re not interested in winning votes from Democrats, and they’re barely interested in satisfying their constituents, because they’re all about ideological conflict.
So the bully pulpit is a lousy way to get legislation done, but might be a useful way to campaign.
OTOH, working to cut deals with Republicans is a good way to get legislation done, but that legislation is going to skew to the small and the right. And the process of hammering out those deals, because it involves some degree of affirming Republican policy preferences, is a lousy way to campaign for liberals’ votes. But, depending on how you look at it, being able to say you found common ground is potentially a decent way to campaign for non-liberal votes from “moderate” Democrats, old-school Republicans, and true independents — although that meta claim has to be balanced with the smaller positive impact (or worse) of the final legislation.
Corner Stone
@Jewish Steel: PUMA!!
Corner Stone
@FlipYrWhig: You’re hilarious dog. I’ve never seen anyone with your unlimited ability to gumby.
Brachiator
@FlipYrWhig:
Is the point of the exercise just to get legislation done? Are you really suggesting that governing does not matter and the content of legislation is irrelevant as long as Democrats win a few seats and maybe keep the White House?
And it is not just that legislation is small and skews to the right. Republicans push their agenda, and then when they gain power they do everything they can to roll back everything that the Democrats previously accomplished.
And it is a big lie that Independents are mainly moderates who just want to see compromise.
And if the Democratic leadership think that their grand purpose is to just make crappy deals and rationalize their failures, then they should just resign and save people the trouble of going to the polls.
Elie
@eemom:
I will.
I feel like there are a lot of creatures prancing around the blog today. Some of them are marginally entertaining. Others need to be swirling down the tank when you push the flush…
Corner Stone
@Elie: You’re more than a little ridiculous. The argument eemom has been making all thread is contra everything you believe. Everything you think has merit and is “sound and logical”.
I’ve been making the consistent compatriot argument – one you agreed with over and over – but somehow it’s the individual that matters and not the argument.
I had hoped to point out the farce that is the whole “firebagger” nonsense here by hoisting the execrable eemom on her own years long petard. But tribalism has played its card again, and trumped any actual argument.
I hope one day you’ll get the point, but I doubt it.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
sorry, asshole, but it is not that simple — and so once again your vacuous, soul-dead nihilism reveals itself for what it is.
Things are not the same now as they were in 2009 or pre-election 2010. The brick wall of hopelessness we’re beating our heads against now wasn’t built yet then.
Before the 2010 election, there WAS a strong case to be made for “let’s do what CAN be done,” as opposed to tantrum-throwing brats screaming about the public option being thrown under the bus. The compromises that were made then were justifiable, because the outcome was better than the status quo. The passage of HCR WAS progress.
That’s not the world we’re in now. The game has changed, and so the strategy must change.
I’d elaborate, but there’s no reason to waste my good sense on you. You are, as I said above, uncaring of anything but your own pathetic ego.
Corner Stone
@eemom:
Has it? Or were you just too stupid to see the truth of it then?
Corner Stone
@eemom:
Even more to the point, if the world has changed and the strategy must change then why hasn’t it?
I mean, that’s what you’ve been doing here at BJ recently, correct? Carrying on that the strategy and outlook does not seem to match what you consider to be a “changed” playing field. You’ve been exhaustively pointing out that President Obama does not seem to be matching your expectations on how to move forward.
So. I guess there are at least a couple options to consider at this point. Let’s see if you’re bright enough to determine what they are.
ETA, asked and answered I see.
eemom
@Corner Stone:
oh I think you know the answer to that. As with everything else, however, the solid wall of your miserable fear and loathing of all things human will prevent you from acknowledging it.
Go rot in your self-imposed dungeon, loser. I am done here.
Uncle Clarence Thomas
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@eemom:
The lady is obviously no lady, and obviously a liar as only her lack of future posts will disprove.
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eemom
@Uncle Clarence Thomas:
hi there, Unk. Thanks for giving me the opportunity to say something “nice” about Cornered Stone, which is that, inhuman as he is, he is WAY smarter than you, cuz at least he possesses some minimal capacity to adapt his assholery to the dialogue at hand — whereas you, day after day, post after post, still spew forth the SAME old tiresome “Obama sux” trope, in EXACTLY the same format, so very tedious that even our ultra-troll-feeding population here seldom bothers with you — indeed even less than they bother with that sub-50 I.Q. moron Fred/Derf. Just go run some numbers if you don’t believe me.
And don’t get too excited about my lack of future posts. I ain’t going nowhere.
FlipYrWhig
@Brachiator:
Their grand purpose is to get the best deal they can when they’re in the majority, and minimize the harm when they’re in the minority. They are hampered, from a liberal standpoint, in the fact that their members are not lockstep liberals, so even when they achieve majority status you get Mike Rosses and Bart Stupaks being pains in the ass — because they believe in different priorities than the liberals do. Ergo, there is almost never something that can be identified as The Democratic View or The Democratic Strategy. There could be, if the party was dominated by liberals. But it isn’t. Which is regrettable, but OBVIOUSLY true.