If it weren’t so damaging to our country if the Republicans can’t convince enough of their house caucus to vote for the debt limit increase, this would be so much fun to watch:
The Senate Republican leader, Mitch McConnell of Kentucky, warned Wednesday that allowing a federal default could have disastrous political consequences for his party and “destroy” the Republican brand.
With increasing numbers of House Republicans digging in against an increase in the debt limit and dismissing the potential economic consequences from a default, Mr. McConnell used a radio interview to defend his proposal to allow a three-stage increase and predicted that Republicans would be punished if they did not allow the debt ceiling to be raised.
Recounting how the 1995 government shutdown helped Bill Clinton win re-election the next year, Mr. McConnell said any impasse that hurt the nation’s credit and led to government checks being delayed could have the same result for President Obama.
“He will say Republicans are making the economy worse,” Mr. McConnell, who is recognized as one of his party’s top political strategists, said in a interview with the radio host Laura Ingraham. “It is an argument that he could have a good chance of winning and all of the sudden we have co-ownership of the economy. That is a very bad position going into the election.”
At the same time, one Republican presidential hopeful, Representative Michele Bachmann of Minnesota, was drawing a hard line against voting to raise the debt ceiling and disputing the idea that the government’s credit standing would be jeopardized by the impasse.
Note that the only thing forcing McConnell is the potential political price, not the damage to the country. Political power is all they ever care about.
But they brought this on themselves. They spewed constant bullshit about Obama’s big spending and spent years pretending to be fiscally conservative, all while allowing their messaging machine to spew insanity, and now they have a bunch of true believers who are as hard-headed on the outside as they are soft on the inside. They fundamentally do not understand what they are doing- the think not increasing the debt limit will stop out of control spending when all it will do is renege on paying the bills for already spent money. That’s why it is called debt. “HAHAHAHA- I’ll get the future family budget in line, I’ll rip up all my old bills and tell people I owe money to fuck off! And then I just won’t spend any money on anything, not rent, food, utilities for a couple years and everything will be fixed WOO FISCAL CONSERVATISM! Yeah! That’s the ticket!”
It’s like trying to lose weight by pretending you haven’t eaten for the last ten years. But they’re too pig-headed and too caught up in an anti-tax mantra to think they’re way out of it. They are convinced they know what they are talking about, and anyone who points out they are clueless is an evil liberal or worse.
Like I said, it would be fun to watch them play russian roullette with each other if they were not pointing the gun at the nation’s head.
bondirotta
I am loving that “all of a sudden we have co-ownership of the economy” line. It’s a window to his black soul.
Because, before this, GOP had NOTHING to do with what is going on with economy or debt.
palooza
Win!
fasteddie9318
FSM, is Bachmann just a complete out-and-out fucking moron about literally everything?
SATSQ, I know.
BDeevDad
I wonder how many of these folks have gone through bankruptcy?
Maude
The GOP started a game called let’s threaten the entire country and blame it on Obama. How’s that working out for them?
Sasha
We are definitely coming to a “Chill the F*** Out — I Got This” moment.
Politically Lost
Part of me wants them to go ahead and jump. JUMP YOU FUCKERS!
However, they’ve got a rope around their waist tied to all of us.
Why can’t they jump without us? I guess suicide is a team sport for the GOP.
beltane
The GOP, the Tories, News Corps. So much schadenfreude, so little time.
bemused
McConnell wants to rewrite the Constitution because elections haven’t worked….for them.
Stooleo
This is what happens when start believing your own bull$hit.
James E. Powell
@Maude:
It worked well enough to get them the house in 2010. And face it, what else do the Republicans have to offer? They knew that their only chance of recovering from the disasters of the Bush/Cheney Junta was to shift blame for everything to Obama. They knew that to do that they only had to stick together and deny him the ability to do anything. They were so committed to this strategy that they even stated it, in clear terms, from Day One.
The great mass of Americans did not blame the Republicans for the inaction on the economy in 2010. And I am not sanguine about the chances that they will do so in 2012.
daveNYC
I’ll go way out on a limb and say that McConnell might actually recognize that a default would FUBAR the country, but he knows that the House Republicans that he’s attempting to talk to are too damn stupid to grasp that fact and their only grasp of help or harm involves their re-election chances.
mcmullje
You just made my day John!
Nutella
JC, you are the king of analogies.
JGabriel
Mitch McConnell (via John Cole @ Top):
Co-ownership?
After the fucking disaster that was the goddamnned Bush administration those Republican assholes should own the whole fucking economy and every piece of shit policy they used to deregulate it to the point of collapse.
Motherfucking piss-drinking dickwad fuckwits.
.
slag
I’m with @bondirotta on this:
Seriously? It’s a sign of the type of interviewer he was facing that he felt free to say something like this. Just pathetic on so very many levels.
The Dangerman
Just saw Bachmann demagoguing that pay for the Military can’t be impacted by the debt limit increase choice; apparently, she thinks we can service our debt (as we can’t default) and pay the military (and Social Security and … etc) without raising the debt limit.
What is the color of the sky in these dumb fuckers world?
jl
If McConnell had not revealed his deep political cynicism before the crisis, it would be unfair to blame him for only talking about how a dire national economic crisis would be bad because it would hurt the GOP. He might have to argue that way because there are very few ways to reach some of the lunatics in the House GOP caucus. But, McConnell did in fact reveal his deep political cynicism before the crisis.
A Daily Kos diary reported a contentious town hall in a conservative district, where the conservative citizens were concerned about why the GOP had its head up its own ass. If there has been more stuff like that, it would explain why McConnell now ‘realizes’ the GOP might share some ownership for the economy (that is, that his party flushed its own plan down the toilet due acting and talking like arrogant cynical lunatics).
So, Cole gets a pass this time.
Econbrowser blog reports today that financial firms and banks are readying their August financial strategies in case no deal is reached, and moving out of treasuries and into cash. Just what the economy needs, right? So, I guess that is evidence that Obama is using scare tactics.
Maybe that is why Bernanke such a point about fed considering QE3 if economy falters even more.
mcmullje
BTW – does anyone know how the general public in Minnesota is responding to the government shut down? I saw that the Twins fans may not have any beer at the games and I know all the public rest stops are shut down. Will they still love Michelle as it becomes more and more apparent that they actually need a government?
Stooleo
O.T. Maybe Tunch could be deactivated like this cat. H/T Boing Boing.
rickstersherpa
Gee, as Dean Baker has pointed out, most politicians are primarily motivated by office and power, and in McConnell’s case, becoming majority leader of the Senate and he suddenly sees that dream evaporating. Hence, this radical change to what is essentially an “clean vote.” But the House Republicans, at least for now, fear be primaried by an anti-tax tea partier as the surest way of losing office and hence their rational motivation for self-reservation is to vote against the “debt ceiling raise” under any conditions, especially if there are tax increases attached. However, since the President and Secretary Geithner have made it clear that they cannot guarantee that social security, soldier pay checks, and et. al. not being paid after August 3 if the debt ceiling is not raised, the Conservative wingnut world has exploded with talk of “scare tactics” although I wonder what these guys think the “out of control spending” is if not the spending on Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Defense (War), Homeland Security, and a few odds and ends.
By the way, I think Mitch McConnell would fit in wonderfully as a corrupt cardinal in “The Borgias” or on as a particularly nasty piece of work on the “Small Council” in “A Game of Thrones.”
Culture of Truth
A clip of that interview sent me a right wing site called Hot Air, and this sounds right. They’re convinced that Obama is stupid, the people want default and spending slashed, and that Sarah Palin will save them and America “like the workers who went into the Fukushima reactor to do the dirty work.”
Uncle Glenny
The whole GOP – and I don’t mean just Congress, I include many of the state leges – are acting like a cross between Kampus Kops (do I have that right?) and Lord of the Flies.
James E. Powell
OT, except that it is related to the theme of Republican insanity conflicting with reality. But there’s that number again:
Spooky.
Zifnab
You know, it’s hilarious because there are many historical figures that have cared strongly for political power. Pretty much everyone that has ever run for President, just for starters. Senators like Ted Kennedy and Supreme Court Justices like Earl Warren. Congressfolk like Nancy Pelosi and Tip O’Neal.
The crazy thing about the last 30 years is that political power has been acquired – in a democracy – by pushing legislation that has been detrimental to the public at large. At first the legislation was subtly detrimental, but now its obviously detrimental.
At this point, you’d think some of these Republicans would conclude what populist Democrats realized decades ago – that fucking over the public at large isn’t the best way to accrue political power in a political system where the public at large assigns political power.
Martin
Obama is pounding that wedge in deeper:
and
Obama is publicly showing support for Boehner, which makes him look good to independents. It’s also driving that wedge deeper and deeper between the GOP and the tea party, because the tea party deeply distrusts any support from Obama. Further, yesterday Obama organized a letter to go out from business leaders to all members of congress demanding that they raise the debt ceiling and expressing that failure to raise the debt ceiling would be worse than anything that’s being negotiated over.
Right now, Obama is pushing the teaparty farther from the GOP than the GOP is from the Dems. The GOP is still terrified of the tea party, and they aren’t about to do anything radical here, but they may quietly accept a deal with the Dems for a clean debt limit increase.
Han's Solo
Yeah, that’s telling. The Bush years, “Destroyed the Republican brand,” that is why the political “thinkers” in the GOP started up the Tea Party. It was a rebranding effort to get the GOP’s disaffected base to rally around the big spending GOP.
That the Republicans last rebranding effort (Teabaggers) could destroy, through the debt ceiling vote, the Republican brand is ironic. Extremely ironic.
eric
We are getting closer to a clean vote in which Nancy brings all dems on board with just the requisite amount of GOPers in the House and then McConnell and the GOP Senators have no choice. The only issue is whether are 50 some odd sane GOPers in the House to make that happen
dmsilev
Welfare for poor folks, foreign aid for all not-Israel countries, Michelle Obama’s campaign to set up reeducation camps for all meat eaters, and probably a couple of other $300 billion/year programs which I’m forgetting.
TooManyJens
My idiot Republican Congressman has declared that he will not vote to raise the debt ceiling. At least, that’s what the statement on his web site said yesterday; today, I can’t help noticing that it has disappeared.
Whoever answered the phone at his office was a real asshole, too. He sounded really pissed that he had to suffer the indignity of taking calls from constituents who didn’t agree with his boss.
trollhattan
@8.beltane – July 13, 2011 | 3:30 pm · Link
Fxt
Heliopause
I don’t know why anybody thinks this. Just as we were told, when Obama floated the entitlements trial balloons, to calm the fuck down because he hasn’t cut anything yet, we ought to calm the fuck down until the GOP actually capitulates. And even then they will have only lost one battle in a war that shouldn’t even exist in the first place.
ThatLeftTurnInABQ
@James E. Powell #11:
Objection: assumes facts not in evidence. What the great mass of Americans did in 2010 is to stay home and not vote one way or the other. Why they did that, we can speculate on endlessly, but the simplest explanation seems to be: low turnout midterm elections are a bitch, nicht wahr?. I’m open to other explanations, but I’d like to have more evidence than I’ve seen so far that the great mass of Americans were paying attention and actually understood what was at stake in the 2010 elections and made a deliberate choice to let things happen as they did.
fasteddie9318
At this point, don’t they need to decapitate the Zombie Republican Brand and bury the head under a rock? Isn’t that the only way to kill the undead?
murbella
Hey Cole, did you see BJ alum Elias Isqueef’s post?
Mitch McConnell’s Minor Masterpiece.
I sure appreciate you blogrolling the LoOG glibertarian vomitorium so I never miss the lastest reacharound.
Jay in Oregon
Sarah Palin wouldn’t know dirty work if it rubbed it’s ass in her face. Too, too funny.
(I thought the left were the ones obsessed with Obama as a messianic figure? The One, Dear Leader, etc.)
Kane
Simply consider the current position Republicans are in. Do nothing and allow the country to default on its debt, and you’ll be held responsbile for the damage that ensues. Oppose President Obama’s grand proposal of $4 billion in cuts and instead settle for a much smaller deal, and you’ll have managed to highlight the fact that the president takes the deficit much more seriously than you do. Accept the president’s grand proposal, and you’ll give Obama a substantial victory that he can remind voters of throughout the campaign. Surrender all reponsibility to President Obama and allow him to raise the debt ceiling, and you have tea partiers declaring mutiny.
The hostage takers have no bullets.
TooManyJens
Thanks for reminding me to update my filter, murbella.
DaddyJ
Welcome to the USA, Mr. McConnell! Life jackets are in the locker on the main deck; hope you get to one on time.
Culture of Truth
eemom
This is an exceptionally good post, John Cole.
Felinious Wench
Man, I’m having a great day.
So, this proposal to give the president the authority to raise the debt ceiling on his own…is this basically them saying “We can’t get our crap together, you do it?”
TK-421
Guilty confession: there is a deeply disturbed and deeply cynical part of me that wants to burn the whole place down too.
I know I know, a lot of unnecessary pain and suffering for lots of people, myself included. Yes, this is an extremely bad idea and the danger cannot be overstated.
But still, one of my lesser angels wants to start over from scratch. And for that, I apologize to…well, everyone.
joes527
I don’t get all the glee.
Yes, the R’s are acting stupidly stupid.
Yes, this will hurt them.
It really doesn’t matter because when the car goes off the cliff, we are _all_ kickin’ in the back seat.
Yesterday it looked like Mitch’s witch’s brew would be a path forward, but today it looks like a non starter.
I don’t think that Obama can save us because it isn’t clear that even if he gave every individual Republican what they individually wanted, and then turned his body over to be burned in ritual sacrifice, that the R’s in the house will pull far enough back from crazytown to vote for for the limit extension.
Han's Solo
@Kane: +1
Cain
@Sasha:
When John puts that up, it’s like the fucking bat sign. Villains get their panties in a twist, and obots starts rah rah rah! Good times! :)
Nutella
Felinious Wench
FTFY
trollhattan
@26.Martin – July 13, 2011 | 3:46 pm · Link
Huh, maybe golf wasn’t such a bad idea. The more I get to “know” Cantor the more I want to punch his neck, and I doubt I’m alone on this. You don’t get ahead being pissy to the president–any president.
Election’s a looooong way off and this episode will die out by then, but general Republican lunacy instructs us they will quickly replace it with more imaginary crises and self-inflicted wounds.
eemom
also too, if I may, another analogy: McConnell is like a big fat cockroach running for cover when the kitchen light is turned on.
SQUISH.
jl
@30 TooManyJens
Disappeared, huh?
Wonder if he heard stuff like in the Daily Kos diary, which I also linked to last night.
Tue Jul 12, 2011 at 05:42 PM PDT.
Townhall in Conservative Country-Obama said the magic words
by Leftovers .
“Caller two was worried about his stocks and bonds tanking and said Republicans weren’t voted in to screw with people and not make deals.”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/12/994032/-Townhall-in-Conservative-Country-Obama-said-the-magic-words
That is about the only thing that would make McConnell, or other GOP pols have ‘concern’ about anything other than their own hides: that their antics did not work this time. Too transparent, too shrill, mixed up with too many obvious nutcase teabaggers, too patently incoherent and senseless.
Citizen_X
I saw that this morning. It was in the dictionary, as the first example for the word “bitchslap.”
jl
@44 TK-421 – July 13, 2011 | 3:56 pm
You a GOP Congressperson? Must be one of the moderates. What district you represent?
eemom
@ trollhattan
Cantor is a profoundly stupid individual. He always looks like he is about two seconds from walking into a wall.
pablo
Hey cyanide didn’t destroy the Tylenol brand, so chill out.
Aaron Baker
It’s a genuine problem. I’m going to love the Schadenfreude, while no doubt sharing some of the Schaden.
If we could just train Republicans to destroy only themselves.
jwest
John might just have a good idea.
Why not just tear up the debt? Using liberal logic, if you don’t personally hold treasury bonds, what’s the difference to you?
Foreign debt? What are they going to do? One of the advantages of having the most expensive military in the world is being able to say fuck off to anyone who doesn’t like it. Are any countries going to withhold their goods from the largest market on earth? Not likely.
The outcome would be a global reset, with the strongest defaulting down in a cascade to the weakest. Call it tough luck on a global scale. Everyone would swear this is a one-time occurrence, laugh under their breath at the losers (mainly China and Middle Eastern oil countries) and begin again debt free.
Make it politically acceptable by extending the debt-reset to all loans. Mortgages, credit card, student loans, everything wiped out overnight. One shot for worldwide fresh start.
azlib
Can you image being Tim Geitner and the choices you will have to make without a debt ceiling increase. I am glad Obama finally brought up that a substantial portion of the Federal checks will not go out. Except for the fact he wanted to use the debt ceiling as leverage for his own ends, he could have just threatened not to send out any Social Security checks a long time ago and the Republicans would have folded like a bad poker hand.
Meantime what is anybody doing about unemployment – nada.
Citizen_X
I think that that’s what McConnell’s proposal was about: it would require 3 or 4 (pointless, grandstanding) votes on the debt limit before the election. This, they hope, would give the Republicans something to distract everyone from the fact that they are accomplishing exactly jackshit.
hueyplong
Republicans and their voters are in something of a closed loop, in which none of the things we consider to be “facts” are anywhere near their radar screens. So the only way to get anywhere is for them to turn on one another and splinter a bit so that some percentage of GOP people vote in a way that we don’t consider insane.
That they are doing so now is a good thing, but it’s hard to say whether people so accustomed to working within a false reality will be able to convince enough reps that they’re actually taking us over the cliff.
McConnell’s actions this week seem a little bit like those of a man who was subjected to a serious “come to Jesus” moment with some Wall Street types. It looks like maybe they’ll need to visit another GOP guy or three in order to get this done.
Living in interesting times isn’t always good, but if this works out, we can hope that some percentage of Wall Street types will say to themselves, “these guys can’t be entrusted with the steering wheel, let’s cut them off.”
It’s probably a baseless hope, but I’m going to cling to it for a news cycle or two.
Bulworth
What’s this with Ingraham seemingly getting all up in McConnell’s grill for passing the buck? That’s more than I would have thought of her.
TK-421
I think I saw this in a movie. The name rhymed with “Schmight Schmlub.” I’m pretty sure Tyler Durden would approve of this whole circus, and would be sad to see it end.
Han's Solo
I hope you can’t overdose on schadenfreude, because TPM has a couple more stories that may tip some of us into death spiral.
1) Democrats are accusing House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) of canceling a hearing on the Financial Crisis Inquiry Commission this week because his committee uncovered documents which wouldn’t have fit his narrative about what went wrong with the agency.
2) Republican House member Mike Lee is looking like an ass as he tries to blame everything on Democrats.
The Snarxist Formerly Known as Kryptik
@ThatLeftTurnInABQ #34:
What we do have on record is polling of the time, which demonstrated how, sight beyond sight, the nation considered the Democrats to be absolutely more extreme than the GOP or even the fucking Tea Party. They managed to convince the country that, with all things considered, the Dems were the real hyperpartisan evil overlords that needed to be stopped at all fucking costs.
Which is absolutely fucking absurd but it showed how the GOP managed to blame shift to ridiculous fucking success. And they’re pulling it a-fucking-gain.
Bulworth
There actually was a “clean vote” for a debt limit increase without spending cuts that was brought up for a vote and defeated a month or two back, if memory serves. This particular measure had some incendiary language blaming Obama for the debt or some such talk, which might have been why Democrats opposed it.
Zach
Here’s Bachmann today: “President Obama is holding the full faith and credit of the United States hostage so he can continue his spending spree…”
I was wondering which side would be the first to have a major figure use the terrorism analogy. I’ve wanted Obama to do it for a few weeks despite knowing that the immediate reaction would be insane. Of course, there won’t be any outrage when Bachmann says it.
soyaki
I actually kind of like Boehner and think he would benefit greatly from an Obama 2nd term. (Romney: upstaged. Perry: discredited. Pawlenty: total eclipse of public interest. Bachman: nukes falling on Capitol impede governance, breathing.)
That being said, the problem with sane Republicans in general right now is that cooperating with Democrats and Obama is something akin to when an Arab pro-Democracy movement gets support from the west. It’s actually destructive to their cause.
Which, incidentally, is not a great leading indicator for this country.
Mike
This reminds me of the health care summit where Obama, once again, put Cantor in his place:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuygCN_tq8k
The look on his face at the end is priceless
jl
@59 hueyplong
Yeah. Nice that some GOP voters are waking up, at least momentarily. But even so, the way they reason is not comforting. In the Daily Kos diary I linked to above, three of the four calls described were basically “hey, these GOP debt games are messing with MY stuff, knock it off”.
Real wide angle vision those people have.
I am ever hopeful and a foolish optimist, so maybe some of them will learn from this episode.
Let’s hope Congressional GOPper can get themselves together enough to pass something in time.
TooManyJens
@jl: I don’t know. I called the office just now and asked about it. Supposedly they’re going to email it to me. I don’t know whether I’ll be more amused if they do, or don’t.
Rome Again
Getting ready to read the comments on this thread, but I have to say, first, that the Google Ads graphic of the Elephant standing directly on top of a knocked out Donkey does NOT belong on this blog. ::GRRRRR::
lou
If you want to see a true portrait of an asshole, check out the live chat on the Washington Post with Grover Norquist. some folks ask pointed questions, which he blows off with nary a factual response, just a “this is the way it is” attitude.
Thoughtcrime
jwest
And I’m sure you’d be the first in line to issue credit to any entity that defaulted this way on their debt.
TooManyJens
@Zach:
Well, he did say the GOP was holding a gun to the head of the American economy, or some such. This may be a New Age of Civility and all, but damned if I didn’t like hearing him say that.
stuckinred
lou
Yea I’ll jump right over there because I give a fuck what he says. jesus
Rome Again
Maude @ 5:
They think they are doing just fine while they cite Gallup poll after Gallup poll stating that the country is with them.
jl
As for the idea of a total worldwide credit restart, I say yippee aye yay and Jubilee!
I’m printing up a whole mess of custom made, bakery fresh made this morning jl money right now. Real pretty and they come cheap if you give some of your stuff.
stuckinred
Rome Again
How can you use the word “think” in relation to the GOP?
jwest
Thoughtcrime,
If the entity had the cash flow to support the debt they were asking for, had a record of paying their debts before the global reset and were now debt-free, and if my livelihood depended on income derived from making loans, I would be the first in line.
Grumpy Code Monkey
++ on the “what’s this ‘all-of-a-sudden’ shit?”
Bulworth @ 60: Maybe they’re starting to smell blood in the water and it’s making them feisty. One can hope, anyway.
Redshirt
Great post, and comments, but the flaw running through many of them is logic. Logic, and truth, and facts need not apply, so no matter what happens with this, the Repugs will spin it, the media will run with the spin, and it will all be Obama’s fault no matter what. The Firebaggers will be shooting tiny arrows too from the rearguard.
And we’ll move on to the next imaginary crisis.
kay
I read that differently. I think it’s directed at Boehner. Obama is saying Boehner isn’t the principal, that he doesn’t have authority to make a deal. He wants to talk to the person in charge.
Ouch.
Citizen_X
jwest:
Jesus fuck, you are dangerously stupid. Have you ever even heard the term trade deficit? This country requires enormous influxes–you know, from dem furriners–of a) capital and b) oil just to survive, every single day. No (borrowed) money, no oil. And without oil, “the most expensive military in the world” would become, instantly, completely harmless. Every American ship, tank, and truck across the world would become just a stranded piece of rusting junk. Hell, we’d probably have troops asking their families to wire money, just so they could get home. It would be the instantaneous end of the USA as a world power.
Sorry to engage the troll folks, but that was too egregiously retarded.
Rome Again
hueyplong @ 59:
I said the same thing this morning.
jl
@81 kay
Well, it is a real question who the de facto leader is right now. I read Cantor was giving briefings outlining possible $2T deals. I also read that no one in House GOP leadership could really guarantee enough GOP votes for $2T in cuts, despite their deficit hawking. If those are true, the House GOP may be in complete disarray.
If I were Obama, I would be very quietly making known my spending triage plans to key Congresspeople right now. See how many GOPpers those plans can bring in.
trollhattan
@83.Citizen_X – July 13, 2011 | 4:24 pm · Link
I guess we can be relieved that he/she/it is done concern trolling for black folks a few threads below. Talk about ill-fitting shoes.
Yeah, going to the barter system to import our oil would be interesting.
Rome Again
Redshirt @ 81:
Looks like they’ve already started, right here in this post. Its’ not coming from the rearguard apparently, it’s coming right out in front.
stickler
Apropos of very little except that the Internets have a sense of humor: my Firefox screen is showing a sidebar ad with this text —
Go Ron Paul! Burn this baby to the ground!
Davis X. Machina
@hueyplong:
Mayor Bloomberg told him some of the people in his city were unhappy the same day Obama allowed as how maybe some SS checks wouldn’t be cut.
The man may be dumb but he’s not stupid. Or vice versa.
Rick Taylor
@Bulworth
__
That and Republicans used a procedural maneuver so that the bill would not pass with less than two third of the house. It was a stunt.
Rome Again
stuckinred @ 78:
Well, the wheels DO turn, they just don’t go anywhere.
jwest
Citizen X,
As with most liberals, you have trouble thinking thing through to their logical conclusion.
Middle Eastern countries (and Canada) need the oil sales just as bad as we need the oil. Do you honestly think they wouldn’t just take the hit and pretend everything is back to normal?
Also, what president would allow the U.S. to run out of oil? As I mentioned, one of the benefits of having an expensive military is that you can take any resource you want from anyone who has it. Faced with that reality, countries would be anxious to resume “normal” trade.
Calouste
@kay 82:
Obama is basically saying:
“Can’tor, you aren’t officially the guy in charge. But this Boehner dude, who is officially in charge, does he have the power or doesn’t he?”
He attacks them both.
Bulworth
Ah, yes, I thought there was some other kabuki jammed in it.
Another Bob
Of course this cave-in by the GOP is a great development. But it still remains to be seen to what extent Obama has drunk the deficit reduction Kool-Aid. Was he looking for the GOP to help provide cover for him to raise the Medicare retirement age, for example? What will he do now that he apparently “owns” the next move all by himself? I still don’t feel like I have a good sense for what this debt ceiling negotiation was all about, who wanted what deep down (aside from the public posturing), etc., and it still remains to be seen how it’s going to play out in actuality as well as politically.
The Dems should at least be able to put their foot back on the GOP’s neck for their disastrous Medicare voucher proposal, and I hope they set things up now so they can beat them with that stick from now through 2012. And I hope that they have the sense to press this advantage and and not let the GOP off the hook out of some misguided sense of fair play or bipartisanship. This cave-in from the GOP demands a response that is furious, ruthless and unrelenting.
Ash Can
@jwest: Beautiful. Thank you for stepping up and being Exhibit A.
jibeaux
I know some people think there is a relevant scene from Seinfeld to most every aspect of life, and this is probably true, but I tend to take them from Office Space. In this case, it’s where Ron Livingston says he doesn’t really like his job, and he’s not going to go anymore. So Jennifer Aniston asks him what he’s going to do about bills, and he says he never really liked paying them either.
Brachiator
This is as dumbass as someone disputing that gravity exists and then jumping out a window.
This is a further step from the nonsense view of many libertarians that the government should not have done a bailout of the financial system, that a complete breakdown would be followed by the gentle Invisible Hand, sweetly correcting markets and guaranteeing prosperity for all.
But this new breed, heads firmly stuck up the butt of a fantasy 18th century economic model, are hopeless. You cannot expect people who yearn for a return to the Gold Standard, who believe that the Federal Reserve is a shadowy conspiracy, whose grasp of economics does not extend beyond what they can put together from totally irrelevant Bible verses and their own supposed “common sense” to have the slightest clue about the consequences of a default.
I used to think that Dubya was the greatest example of American anti-intellectualism, and then later that Sarah Palin was the ultimate UnBeautiful Mind. But this insistence of Bachmann and others that Ignorance is Strength exceeds anything I could ever have imagined.
jl
huh, I thought jwest was joking…
Anyway, the GOP seems to be in such disarray, they can’t even play the blame game right anymore
GOP Freshman To McConnell: Dude, You Gave Our Debt Hostage to Obama!
Brian Beutler | July 13, 2011, 3:34PM
” So after acceding Tuesday that they’ll raise the debt limit one way or another, Republicans are now accusing President Obama of holding the debt limit hostage. Fine. It’s pretty clumsy as rhetorical jiu jitsu goes, but fine.
For this argument to be persuasive, though, these same Republicans must omit the fact that they were using the debt limit as a weapon in an ideological fight just 24 hours ago.
But that’s exactly what Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT), an articulate freshman, beloved by conservatives, just did. ”
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/07/gop-freshman-mcconnell-ruined-our-leverage-on-the-debt-limit-which-obamas-holding-hostage.php
And also, if the GOP can’t get a vote through, and they do manage to mess it up in a very public and obvious way, they will be causing a very real and serious crisis for many of their remaining sane voters. The Daily Kos diary I posted above shows many are already thinking this through.
That would leave the GOP with their insane 25 (Edit: 27, sorry I forgot what the magic number was) percent base and some random small change.
Rome Again
jwest @ 57:
Why don’t you try that with your mortgage and see if you get a new principle reset. I’d buy a sleeping bag first if I were you.
RalfW
@mcmullje
Here’s a great editorial on the GOP in MN, day 13, from a small-town paper (via the Strib):
When GOP legislators cry loudly about not being called back into session, pinning the blame on Gov. Mark Dayton, those tears are crocodile.
On Wednesday, Dayton proposed several options to close the $1.2 billion revenue gap, turn on the lights of state government, and give lawmakers a week to pass legislation reflecting the compromise.
The Republican leadership turned down a combination of five different solutions and offered absolutely nothing in return.
Check that.
The leadership offered something – the same old, tired excuse, which fits nicely on campaign literature but leaves lights dark in government.
“A tax increase in general is a nonstarter in our caucus,” Minnesota House Speaker Kurt Zellers told the Pioneer Press on Thursday.
In other words, the Republican compromise is doing it their way or no way….[snip]
We’d point out this is the second time Dayton has toned down his campaign pledge to tax those earners by five percent more.
Dayton also offered compromises in school funding shifts, health care surcharges on hospitals and closing loopholes on corporate taxes.
The Republican response?
No.
No.
No.
No.
No.
Their compromise and counterproposal?
(This space reserved for silence.)
So the shutdown continues with very dim prospects in sight. [end extended excerpts]
There’s more at that link. Its awesome.
[I know I read how to format multi-parag blockquotes, but it was months ago and my brain is full]
Han's Solo
@jibeaux: Sadly, if numbnuts gets his way and the global financial system crashes, it is possible that there will be no more TV shows, and therefore there will be no reruns of “Kung Fu” to go home and watch.
Citizen_X
Great. So, after “blow up the world economy,” step 2 is “invade Canada.”
dedc79
I’m curious how the corporations that funded this tea party madness feel about it now. They sold these groups a new religion where raising a tax, any tax, was sacrilege, and now they missed out in starving the fed govt with 2 trillion in tax cuts because of it.
Ordovician Bighorn Dolomite (formerly rarely seen poster Fe E)
@trollhattan 48
I can assure you that you are not alone in that desire. I think they invented the phrase “smarmy prick” back in the day just so that we would have it on hand to describe Mr. Cantor
Thoughtcrime
What to expect at Obama’s next meeting with the GOP:
Obama’s response: “Senator? You can have my answer now, if you like. My final offer is this: nothing. Not even the votes for the debt limit increase, which I would appreciate if you would gather up personally.
kay
I just always understood that as the traditional questioning-of-authority obligatory insult in negotiations. “Bring me the principal! We’re wasting time.” Harumph :)
It’s true, too, so it’s a fair question. Cantor directly contradicted Boehner last Thursday, and Boehner then changed positions Saturday. Obama is right to wonder. Who is he dealing with? Who does Boehner speak for? No one, it looks like.
Origuy
OT, except that this is today’s bash Bachmann thread: In a committee hearing, Bachmann declared that Terri Schaivo was a healthy woman.
jl
Upon request, I will gladly laminate these beautiful minty fresh art and framing quality jl bucks. But you will have give me more stuff for them…
Unless you act now on my limited time ‘laminated collectors proof page issue’ offer. They come with a complementary blunt scissors so you can cut them out and spend them whenever you want to.
Larv
The Republicans apparently aren’t big believers in the philosophy of “you break it, you bought it”.
dmsilev
OK folks, I know that it’s only the 13th, but here’s my nomination for Dumbest Comment of the Month.
mr. whipple
Thoughtcrime : I was just going to post that!!!
Obama has them by the nuts.
Amir_Khalid
@jwest:
Oh yes, that worked out well for the US in Iraq, didn’t it? Everyone in America can remember how gas prices went plummeting in 2003, I’ll bet.
jl
The jl bucks jokes are because there are ways Obama can evade the debt ceiling for quite awhile. But, if I understand it correctly, the long term version would risk massive inflation.
See last few week or so of the Econbrowser blog posts for some analysis.
jrg
Good lord, you’re a fucking moron. I would not like my 401(k) to tank. Please pay attention to what the right-wing politicians you support are trying to do to the United States’ credit.
MikeB
I don’t think Mitch is nearly as worried about voters blaming the GOP
as he is about the Big Money Boys blaming the GOP. Unlike voters,
Big Money pays detailed attention to what goes on in DC and Big Business is not happy with the Teabagger repubs right now.
That said, while I don’t want to see more economic pain and suffering,
it would be interesting to see the Big Money Boys not getting what
they want for once, and what the political fallout would look like.
Davis X. Machina
Our Republic and its precious freedoms — threatened from every direction. Now it’s the UN-manatee axis.
RalfW
I’m not so sure. Because the press loves fights and conflict and chaos. That is why I think Obama picked at the Cantor-Boehner scab, and it really isn’t that hard to package the dozen or so different GOP efforts in the past few days as the Repubs in panic/freefall.
A tastier narrative. Get the chum in the water while it bleeds!
dmsilev
Oh, the huge manatee!
(sorry. Someone had to say it)
jl
The UN is going to send in the manatees, rappelling out of black helicopters, to take our incandescent light bulbs? Oh no! More important than the debt talks!
Ash Can
@Origuy: I have no doubt that Bachmann would believe that about Terri Schiavo. Bachmann herself is demonstrating the ability to run for president while brain-dead, so it stands to reason that she’d believe Schiavo could have done anything as well.
Brandon
Back on June 24th, I posted this:
People were skeptical. But it seems that McConnell agrees. This thing will end with a wimper as the Congress slinks away for August.
Dennis SGMM
The Big Money Boys will hold back the Republicans for just as long as it takes for them to short America. Once Goldman Sachs greenlights the implosion the rest of us can just grab our ankles.
geg6
Unlike, say, me, Steve Benen is so polite about the congressional GOPers. But he says exactly what I’m thinking about them (and their media defenders), only in language much milder and SFW than I would use:
Fucking screaming buffoons is how I’d characterize it, but then, I’ve been told (as recently as yesterday, right here) that I’m unpleasantly blunt, so I’ll just let Benen’s words stand for me.
trollhattan
@120. jl – July 13, 2011 | 4:54 pm · Link
Now that’s just ducky. No way I can flush away a rappelling manatee with my liebrul 1.6-gallon toilet. [shakes fist]
geg6
Goddam it, Cole. Get me out of moderation.
jl
@124: did you see my thanks a few days ago for the NV county fair tip? Anyway, thanks.
Do they have any survivalist exhibit booths there? I might want to pick up a few odds and ends.
Edit: forgot to add, serves you right for selling out and using a commie flusher connected up to commie sewer system. I figured you’d have your two outhouses and rotation system set up. But you don’t, and you are a weakling who will be culled out right quick.
scav
A manatee v. seal black-helicopter low-flow light-bulb of liberty episode of 24 would be epic!
Rick Taylor
__
I hope you’re right. They’ve already dragged it on recklessly long. Markets may not wait until August 3 to panic, if Republicans keep insisting they’re not going to raise the ceiling.
Han's Solo
OT, per TPM:
Sly
OT: So now Peter King wants an investigation of News Corp. Via The Hill:
In the interest of full disclosure, Peter King is my Congressman and is, in general, a piece of shit. He’s only doing this because he’ll spare no expense to pimp 9/11 for his own political gain, something that has come to encapsulate his entire existence as a Congressman. He does it more than Giuliani, and that’s saying something.
Which is why this is especially delicious.
Calouste
@Han’s Solo (129):
Meh, too vague. Sounds like at worst it’s Bachmann’s version of Rev. Wright, and IOKIYAR.
And in any case, most Protestants won’t see that much wrong with it. Not that they think the Pope literally is the anti-Christ, but he hardly wins any popularity contests in those circles.
James E. Powell
@dedc79:
I’m sure they are very satisfied. The right-wing policies and changes that they’ve managed to get in several states are pure gold. They got their Bush tax cuts extended, probably indefinitely. They have ensured that there will be no efforts to increase any regulation of any business, no legislation improving workers’ rights, no funding for any federal agency whose job it is to regulate business.
It’s been ten times Christmas for them. This debt ceiling business is just a show to them. When the masters of our universe decide that it’s time to close the show, they will do so. I doubt that it will take more than three phone calls.
Chris
@ Sly,
Thanks for the info. Peter King is indeed a piece of shit, and a terrorist lover to boot (a REAL one, not just somebody who does on Fridays what most Americans do on Sundays). And that does indeed make it just that much more delicious.
@ Calouste,
You may want to revise that sentence. At least based on some of the Protestants (the out-there and generally Republican supporting kind) that I’ve met.
t jasper parnell
Han’s Solo:
You know who thought the pope was the anti-Christ? Luther, that’s who. You know who else thinks the pope is the anti-Christ? Lots o’ Protestants, particularly the fundies who make up Bachman’s base, which is chock full o’ nuts.
trollhattan
@127.jl – July 13, 2011 | 5:00 pm · Link
You’re most welcome! Been a few years since I last went, so I suppose the survivalistas and baggers might have infested the joint by now. I don’t recall them being especially prominent before.
re. My Totos versus Manateezilla–it’s on, baby!
Nellcote
@#130
http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2011/06/14/sensenbrenner-will-introduce-fcpa-bill/
Uncle Clarence Thomas
.
.
Fortunately, even the liberal President Obama called for much-needed cuts in Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security to put the U.S. economy on a solid footing to win the future.
.
.
Zach
@toomanyjens
True: “The debt ceiling should not be something that is used as a gun against the heads of the American people to extract tax breaks for corporate jet owners, or oil and gas companies that are making billions of dollars because the price of gasoline has gone up so high.” This is somewhat different (implied that someone might do this; not that it was happening), but the Fox Nation still got up in arms (wups) – “Six months ago the President was preaching civility after the Gabrielle Giffords shooting, and just yesterday he held a press conference where he called for keeping the rhetoric under control.”
Bill in Portland Maine
I like you, Mr. Cole. And I think you have potential in the blogosphere. I’m looking forward to more of your writings.
–
bemused
RalfW@101,
Now that’s my Minnesota and it’s coming back. I refuse to believe our Bachmann, teaparty loving idiots are more than the usual 27%. I think there is more buyers’ remorse as those who were temporarily snowed are affected by the shutdown.
HyperIon
Another Bob @ 95 (goddamn you, absent reply thingy) wrote:
IMO increasing the Medicare start age to 67 is complete BS. Hopefully the progressives like Pelosi will set him straight on this, should he decide to go there. She has been adamant about Medicare and SS issues.
The Moar You Know
David X. Machina: I’ve been surrounded by human stupidity since I was born, and that’s a lot longer time than I would like. But that linked story may be the ultimate statement of human idiocy.
bcinaz
America is in need of a new class of public servant “cult deprogrammer”. Have to kidnap a couple of these f***ers and breakthrough the brainwash.
WereBear
Can any of us predict what our friends and relations will do in common circumstances? Of course, with uncanny accuracy.
So while we might be surprised the R’s really are that stupid; I’m sure a lot of other people are not.
Svensker
@ Davis X. Machina
Followed some links and learned about Agenda 21. These folks really are Birchers, aren’t they? Who knew Col. Jack D. Ripper would be flying high in the good ole US of A once again. Oy.
moderately
Love the weight metaphor. It’s like these idiots think that they can eat crap for ten years, then pretend they didn’t, and then try to lose the all the weight they gained by not eating anything at all.
What could go wrong?
bemused
WereBear
I’m not surprised at the stupid. It’s how deeply, jaw dropping stupid they are.
sistermoon
Hmm… looks like the GOP’s corporate overlords finally told them to turn off the lights and declare the party over.
pattonbt
I haven’t read the comments yet to see if anyone else has commented on this particular sentence, but this sentence:
“It is an argument that he could have a good chance of winning and all of the sudden we have co-ownership of the economy”
is the most disgusting and eye opening (for any sane Republican hanger on who ever believed the Republicans were remotely responsible) thing of the whole debt bullshit theater. They just stated that, even though they are in the government and in control of the main mechanism of the budget (the House) they do not have “co-ownership of the economy”. So what the fuck do you do then asshole? Get the fuck out of the way and let serious people govern.
How can they even try to say shit like this and not get dragged through the streets in chains?
moe99
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/what-if-obama-is-right-about-the-deficit/2011/03/28/gIQA9kXP9H_blog.html?wpisrc=nl_politics
a possible explanation for Obama’s focus on the deficit.
WaterGirl
@ JGabriel
I am late to the thread, but thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking, albeit in a slightly more colorful way than I might have. Perfect!
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
@kay: I read it as a double entendre, with both meanings. The President is certainly that clever, regardless of one’s position on eleventy dimensional chess.
rikyrah
everyone knew they were fucking crazy
Tonal Crow
Good rant, John. Just fix “think they’re way out of it” and “russian roullette”.
gelfling545
Helping my daughter & SIL move into their new flat today I remarked (jokingly) whether the owner who is Chinese by birth & returning to China for a spell was really moving for family reasons as specified or if he was afraid the GOP had pushed the self destruct button for the country & was getting while the getting was good. She hmmm’d for a few seconds & said “You know, all the properties we looked at” (about 5 in the neighborhood of a large state university)”were owned by owners from China who were returning there for a while”. I think they’re on to something.
I hear Finland is nice.
gelfling545
@The Dangerman: Apparently even Bill O’Reilley (!) told Bachman she is coo coo.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@dmsilev:
You rang? :)
I bet Lawrence O’Donnell isn’t going to be welcome at the manic progressive havens after his calling them out for the failures that they are tonight. LO really poked them with some sharp sticks tonight, pointing out that Obama set a new campaign cash level and had over 260,000 new donors. This, despite the manic progressive left saying that his popularity was dropping like a stone. He even quoted Adam Green saying that this money was raised before Obama said he would agree to budget cuts and that ‘… Obama will pay for his betrayal soon!’
While I may agree with much of what the manic progressive left espouses, I disagree with their tactics and that their tactics allow a large number of ratfuckers to operate within their groups, thus enabling the ratfucking. So I am more than happy to watch them melt down with the latest Obama Fu that threw them into a froth, as LO pointed out tonight.
Obama is having a good week and it’s about time he had another one. If his opponents have their way, as they often do, they are few and far between.
Ben Cisco
Of Rocks and Hard Heads […] Cole takes note of the slapfight brewing between the GOP and the TP […]