Boehner Blinked.

Well, what do we have here:

House Speaker John Boehner is abandoning discussions with the White House on a large-scale debt deal slated to achieve $4 trillion in deficit reduction. The bone of contention is Boehner’s insistence on no tax increases in the deal. Instead, Boehner said the talks should focus on reaching a smaller debt-reduction deal.

“Despite good-faith efforts to find common ground, the White House will not pursue a bigger debt reduction agreement without tax hikes,” Boehner said in the statement.

The Administration knew what Boehner’s pressure point was. How? Because Grover Norquist hasn’t shut the hell up about it for a month now. The sacred tax pledge! You must obey the sacred tax pledge! All the howling from the left may turn out to have been a good thing.***

Meanwhile, the Tea Party is about to lose its collective mind (to the extent it has one, which is unlikely).

The hits: They just keep on comin’.

I reckon this is your evening flame war thread.

Cheers!

***I know I know, he’s worse than Bush.






228 replies
  1. 1
    Corner Stone says:

    Clown.

    ETA, to be clear, you are a clown.

  2. 2
    RinaX says:

    LOL, I can’t even with Boehner anymore. Yesterday he was crying about the absolute need to raise the debt ceiling, and today this bullshit.

  3. 3
    scav says:

    Next mystery of the world: how the hell can tea partiers continue to lose their minds so spectacularly and continually when they have so freaking little mind to begin with? ! Infinite motion machines have simply nothing on them.

  4. 4
    Corner Stone says:

    Boehner has $2T in cuts on the table to play with. And zero in revenue increases.
    Where is this going?

  5. 5
    Jeff says:

    The Dems HAVE to get out and start screaming to the media that the Republicans refuse to make the rich pay their fair share and they don’t want debt reduction at all, they just want to screw the middle class. They have to scream louder, the Republicans are just too good at this game.

  6. 6
    Steeplejack says:

    Hon, your second link is seriously messed up. I fix.

  7. 7
    PopeRatzy says:

    The white house stopped short of saying “what a pussy” in their news release.

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-.....get-negoti

    I love political speak. Two paragraphs to tell Boehner to grow a pair.

  8. 8
    Judas Escargot says:

    After today? No GOPer gets to lecture us on ‘fiscal responsibility’ ever again.

  9. 9
    dr. bloor says:

    Headline on AOL just now was sweet: “Boehner rejects $4 Trillion dollar debt reduction deal”

  10. 10
    jon says:

    The Dems now get to say they were were in favor of more reduction in debt than the Republicans. So the Dems now own the issue of the deficit, since the Republicans were given the option of dealing with the crisis and decided that other crises were more important.

    Now to sell that issue… oh, crap!

  11. 11
    NR says:

    So instead of a “deal” that’s 85% cuts and 15% tax increases, we get a “deal” that’s 100% cuts and 0% tax increases. And somehow this is a victory?

    The spin around here is impressive, that’s for sure.

  12. 12
    RinaX says:

    The Dems HAVE to get out and start screaming to the media that the Republicans refuse to make the rich pay their fair share and they don’t want debt reduction at all, they just want to screw the middle class. They have to scream louder, the Republicans are just too good at this game.

    Yeah, well, you’d have to count on assholes like Ben Nelson to not go to every microphone he can find bleating about how much he agrees with the Republicans. And of course he’d be the only one that cable news would feature.

  13. 13
    Corner Stone says:

    There will be a deal done. It will be agreed to. Obama will sign it. The USA will not be allowed to default.

  14. 14
    baxie says:

    How wonderful the presidents supporters are now free to paint the shit-sandwich deal that comes out of this as a “win” because….uh, because it wasn’t twice as bad as it could have been, I guess.

    There was no need for a ‘deal’ on this vote, period. Whatever cuts happen are the responsibility of the dems for not flipping Rs the bird when they first started slobbering about this whole thing.

  15. 15
    drkrick says:

    Next mystery of the world: how the hell can tea partiers continue to lose their minds so spectacularly and continually when they have so freaking little mind to begin with?

    Clown car skulls?

  16. 16
    PeakVT says:

    The key point here is that Boner blinked. He’s likely to do so again, and the deal may end up being not entirely unpalatable.

    It’s still ridiculous that we’re discussing cuts and not jobs, of course

  17. 17
    NR says:

    The key point here is that Boner blinked.

    He blinked? What, exactly, did he give up?

  18. 18
    mk3872 says:

    This is my first experience with this “corner stone” dude here in the comments. Who the hell is this character?

    The revenue will still come from closing tax loopholes.

    This has been public knowledge for some time now, ever since the Biden-led discussions were made public. Sheesh …

  19. 19
    Jim in Chicago says:

    Meanwhile, we still have the Bush tax cuts for the rich and we’re talking about CUTTING spending when we should be talking about BOOSTING the economy with more spending now so that people can get jobs and start paying taxes again (lowers our debt) rather than collecting unemployment (raises our debt). It really isn’t rocket science: http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.c.....-insanity/

  20. 20
    Yutsano says:

    It’s still ridiculous that we’re discussing cuts and not jobs, of course

    But gubmint can’t create jerbs! It must be true, Glenn Beck told me so!

    (which makes me laugh every time I go to my government job during the week.)

  21. 21
    mk3872 says:

    @NR #16: As Balzy himself put it here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

    … The GOP had their chance to cut the progressive sacred cows of Medicare, Medicaid and SS but couldn’t break their tax pledges. They’d rather bow-down to Grover than to raise taxes.

  22. 22
    slag says:

    “Despite good-faith efforts to find common ground, the White House will not pursue a bigger debt reduction agreement without tax hikes,” Boehner said in the statement.

    Well, at least he credited the White House for working in good faith. I wonder why he didn’t credit himself for such.

  23. 23
    jaleh says:

    My husband is thinking about selling everything in his retirement account, but then, what do you do with cash in the bank? that’s not safe either if world comes to an end! Oh well, who cares, at that point?

    BTW:
    Economist, of all people: Shame on Republicans:

    http://www.economist.com/node/.....hameonthem

  24. 24
    slag says:

    @mk3872: Ass.

    To be clear, Corner Stone is an ass.

  25. 25
    Davis X. Machina says:

    New Speaker by Christmas…

  26. 26
    jl says:

    Unlike others here, I do not know the future, so I will not assume (insert the ‘assume’ joke here) either that the GOP will force Obama to make unwise and politically devastating cuts in social insurance programs, or that the Obawan Mindmaster will make the GOP fold.

    What I do know is that, right now, Obama proposed relatively small cuts in social insurance (which I would strenuously object to for political reasons, but economically, are not that bad, and very easily reversible later, BTW, unlike GOP’s proposals), more deficit reduction, and tax increases that are close to what the GOP originally said would be acceptable (IIRC), and Boehner said no.

    Obama is making the GOP look like greedy disingenuous selfish fools who care only about preserving low taxes for the very rich.

    Below is the headline on Google News:

    “Boehner’s decision means an opportunity lost”

    So, so far, Obama is making it harder for the GOP to force a bad deal without severe political consequences.

    And also, not sure that Obama has committed himself to default or big spending cuts if no legislative deal is reached. When asked about constitutional issues, Obama has studiously avoided committing himself.

    If Obama does go ahead and ignore debt limit ceiling on constitutional grounds, it will be very important that he have the public on his side.

  27. 27
    bourbaki says:

    @Yutsano

    Who said this?

    “Government can’t replace — can’t create jobs to replace the millions that we lost in the recession, but it can create the conditions for small businesses to hire more people, through steps like tax breaks,”

  28. 28
    Corner Stone says:

    @Yutsano:

    But gubmint can’t create jerbs! It must be true, Glenn Beck told me so!

    Well Yutz, then GB, President Obama and at least Austan Goolsbee are of one mind.
    How’s that go over when you bother to ponder it?

  29. 29
    Corner Stone says:

    @slag: I love you too, slagster.

  30. 30
    Corner Stone says:

    @jl:

    which I would strenuously object to for political reasons, but economically, are not that bad, and very easily reversible later

    I hope you realize how naive this sounds.

  31. 31
    Yutsano says:

    How’s that go over when you bother to ponder it?

    That you can’t detect sarcasm to save your life.

    how the HELL can I tell her it was an Angry Black Lady.

    Whatever you do, record the conversation. I bet it could be priceless.

  32. 32
    lacp says:

    The linked NewsMax piece is a hoot. Here’s the heads of a bunch of Tea Party outfits opining on debt and the deficit, and it’s clear that none of them has the foggiest idea what he’s talking about. Doubt that any of them has a higher IQ than an aphid.

  33. 33
    slag says:

    @Corner Stone: I believe the correct response is:

    Dost thou not suspect my place? dost thou not suspect my years? O that he were here to write me down an ass! But, masters, remember that I am an ass; though it be not written down, yet forget not that I am an ass. No, thou villain, thou art full of piety, as shall be proved upon thee by good witness. I am a wise fellow, and, which is more, an officer, and, which is more, a householder, and, which is more, as pretty a piece of flesh as any is in Messina, and one that knows the law, go to; and a rich fellow enough, go to; and a fellow that hath had losses, and one that hath two gowns and every thing handsome about him. Bring him away. O that I had been writ down an ass!

    But close enough.

    ETA Blockquote, why dost thou treat me so?

  34. 34
    Corner Stone says:

    @mk3872:

    This is my first experience with this “corner stone” dude here in the comments. Who the hell is this character?
    __
    The revenue will still come from closing tax loopholes.

    Let’s make this brief and nasty. Fuck you chump. There is no agreement on the table regarding revenue, only cuts.
    Now, if you and slag want to go in the closet and play a game of “I never”, then that’s on you.

  35. 35
    Corner Stone says:

    @Yutsano: Oh, my life’s blood runs heavy on sarcasm. You just suck.
    Or that’s what I hear anyway.

  36. 36
    Corner Stone says:

    @slag: You expect me to read all of that? Just call me an ignorant asshole and be done with it.

  37. 37
    Yutsano says:

    You just suck

    And you ain’t getting any of that from me.

    That’s unusually blunt for them.

    Most of the piece was neo-glibertarian bullshit. But yeah, they pretty much tore the Republicans a new one. For them anyway.

  38. 38
    RossInDetroit says:

    From that Economist piece:

    It is because the vast majority of Republicans, driven on by the wilder-eyed members of their party and the cacophony of conservative media, are clinging to the position that not a single cent of deficit reduction must come from a higher tax take. This is economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical.

    That’s unusually blunt for them.

  39. 39
    Corner Stone says:

    @efgoldman:

    how the HELL can I tell her it was an Angry Black Lady.

    Well. It’s doubtful there’s a receipt involved. So.
    You may have a bit of a problem.

  40. 40
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!) says:

    They’d rather bow-down to Grover

    What’s so bad about that, even the firebaggers bow down to Grover. Grover can’t be that bad if he has the queen of the firebaggers blowing him.

  41. 41
    Corner Stone says:

    @Yutsano: I’ve had AAA rated blow jobs before. I doubt you could match up.
    But let’s agree we’ll never know.

  42. 42
    Anya says:

    mk3872 @17 ~ He’s the guy who pretends to be cool, standing by the mini bar using one liners and insults to cover his insecurity.

  43. 43
    slag says:

    @Corner Stone: Sadness. Well…your loss.

  44. 44

    […] talking on big stuff” is a fantasy.  A fiction.  Not happening (as I just noticed ABL has flagged too) — because the Republican representatives amongst these putative “serious […]

  45. 45
    PanAmerican says:

    Somewhere the orange man is stoned drunk and weeping.

  46. 46
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anya: I’m a lot of things. Insecure has never been one of them.
    And usually the mini bar is in your hotel room. So it’s hard to stand there and at the same time insult people.

  47. 47
    Corner Stone says:

    @slag: C’mon slag. You know you’re thinking what I’m thinking on this debt ceiling deal imbroglio.
    Don’t front.

  48. 48
    Corner Stone says:

    @PanAmerican:

    Somewhere the orange man is stoned drunk and weeping.

    Makes two of us.
    Although I’m not going to start weeping until I put Adele on in a few minutes.

  49. 49
    slag says:

    @Corner Stone: I’m still trying to withhold judgment. I’ve been wrong before. Many, many times.

    ETA You really should see that play. Or the movie. It’s educational.

  50. 50
    Mnemosyne says:

    So instead of a “deal” that’s 85% cuts and 15% tax increases, we get a “deal” that’s 100% cuts and 0% tax increases.

    You may want to check your reading comprehension skills if you think that Boehner was announcing that a deal has been reached. That’s, um, kind of the point here — the deal collapsed because the White House insisted that tax increases would have to be part of any package. There is no deal. The deal is dead. The deal has kicked the bucket. It’s shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisible. It’s an ex-deal.

    But I realize that none of those facts will prevent you from freaking out about the horrible horrible deal that Obama just accepted that, you know, doesn’t actually exist outside of your own head.

  51. 51

    @mk3872:

    This is my first experience with this “corner stone” dude here in the comments. Who the hell is this character?

    He’s someone who shouldn’t be taken seriously.

  52. 52
    WaterGirl says:

    @ Corner Stone

    If you want to attack Yutsano, fine, but please don’t use his being gay to do it. IMO, your last two comments to Yutsano crossed the line.

    Edit: As you can see, I looked into how to “reply” after your comment this afternoon practically double dog dared me not to figure it out. :-)

  53. 53
    ronin122 says:

    How cute, GOS is using this to talk about primary-ing Obama again (albeit in the diary section, may just missed it but I never saw anything serious on such a thing on main page).

  54. 54
    Suffern ACE says:

    Who’s financing Norquist’s slush fund anyway? I’m assuming its oil. Or is he tied into Rove’s money machine?

  55. 55
    Corner Stone says:

    @WaterGirl: I’m glad you picked up the Reply.
    You’re wrong on my back and forth with Yutz. But that’s up to you.

  56. 56
    Corner Stone says:

    @Comrade Kevin: Kevin. You intrigue me dog. Tell us a little about yourself.

  57. 57
    Yutsano says:

    If you want to attack Yutsano, fine, but please don’t use his being gay to do it. IMO, your last two comments to Yutsano crossed the line.

    A) I’m okay. I’ve heard much worse in my life. And CS knows full well he has zero power over me, which kind of makes it worse.

    B) I did kind of goad him into going down that road, so I accept some responsibility there. It’s not my fault he’s predictable.

  58. 58

    @ronin122: The video attached to that post is absolutely vile.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!) says:

    How cute, GOS is using this to talk about primary-ing Obama again (albeit in the diary section, may just missed it but I never saw anything serious on such a thing on main page).

    problem is no one is interested in primarying him. not even out of work blowhards who have nothing to lose like Grayson.

    ya know just two weeks ago they wanted to primary him over gay marriage.

    two weeks from now they’ll find some other reason.

    rinse, repeat.

  61. 61
    WaterGirl says:

    @ Yutsano

    I’m glad you’re okay. I felt like I had to speak up, but i probably should have said I thought the first comment was out of line. (cause you did kind of go there with your response to the first comment.)

  62. 62
    Corner Stone says:

    @Comrade Kevin: That’s kind of harsh. May I entice you to the negotiation table?

  63. 63
    Suffern ACE says:

    @ronin122

    1. Al Gore (the former, put a Lock Box on Social Security, Inconvenient Truth about Climate Change Candidate who the Right Wing Supreme Court Stole the Election from).

    2. Russ Feingold

    3. Howard Dean

    4. Alan Grayson

    5. Bernie Sanders

    6. Jack Reed

    7. Sheldon Whitehouse

    8. Elizabeth Warren

    9. Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

    10. That last choice is up to YOU.

    OK. I’m not going to suss talking about primaring Obama because it has 0 chance of happening, and might help some folks work out some issues. None of the above will run and most, even if they did, wouldn’t be more than the 4th tier candidate and not the same as Kennedy running against Carter. But the first blogger who starts a bleg with a thermometer for a “draft (blank)” campaign needs to be taken out as a grifter con-artist.

    How old is Rachel Maddow anyway? Can she be number 10. I like her.

  64. 64
    mk3872 says:

    @Corner Stone:

    The agreement has ALWAYS included closing tax loopholes and tax credits. This has been true since the Biden days of the negotiations.

  65. 65
    Lolis says:

    Yep, I am starting to think Obama may have a strategy in this fight after all.

  66. 66
    Corner Stone says:

    @mk3872: Of course it has dog. Of course it has.

  67. 67
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!) says:

    @ronin122: The video attached to that post is absolutely vile.

    could you describe the video, I refuse to give GOS any traffic.

  68. 68
    Marc says:

    Does it really always have to be about you? I don’t think you even believe much of anything you type..it’s just stomping up and down to get attention.

  69. 69
    Corner Stone says:

    @WaterGirl: I’m wondering if you still love me today as fervently as you did yesterday?

  70. 70

    @Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!): It’s a racist piece of shit first circulated by freerepublic back in 2008.

  71. 71
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    As predicted, President Obama has them right where he wants them. The man has reached Terminal Ferocity.
    .
    .

  72. 72
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!) says:

    Suffern ACE,

    Reed, Whitehouse. You’re from Rhode Island?

  73. 73
    cleek says:

    this just in: self-appointed base hates high-level representation. claims leadership is “heretical” and “working for the other side!”

    cynics wearily sigh: welcome to democracy.

  74. 74
    Corner Stone says:

    @cleek: cleek, you used to have a little more oomph before somebody hung the “firebagger” tag on you a while back.

  75. 75
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo!!) says:

    It’s a racist piece of shit first circulated by freerepublic back in 2008.

    so called liberals engaging in race baiting, because in their view obama isn’t liberal — how logical.

  76. 76
    cleek says:

    @ronin122:
    wow. it contains what might be my favorite internet comment ever (give or take):

    I have been thinking recently I wouldn’t object to him declining to run and then having the whole thing open up (although we’d likely end up with Clinton as the de facto nominee if she wanted it).

    you “wouldn’t object to him declining to run.” duly noted! and i’m sure that Obama himself will keep your feigned ambivalence in the forefront his thoughts. i’m sure your concern weighs on his soul.

    Clinton? GTFOutta here. we’re doing this again?

  77. 77
    cleek says:

    @Corner Stone:
    don’t care. not worried about the reviews.

  78. 78
    NR says:

    That’s, um, kind of the point here—the deal collapsed because the White House insisted that tax increases would have to be part of any package.

    You’re the one who needs to work on your reading comprehension skills. It was only the $4 trillion deal that collapsed:

    On the eve of a second round of high-level bipartisan talks set for Sunday, Mr. Boehner issued a statement saying he would now urge negotiators to instead focus on crafting a smaller package more in line with the $2 trillion to $3 trillion in spending cuts and revenue increases negotiated earlier by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

    There’s still a deal, it’s just a $2-3 trillion deal instead of a $4 trillion one. And it’s 100% cuts–no tax increases.

    There is going to be a $2-3 trillion cut in needed services when we have 9% unemployment. It is going to make the recession worse and cost even more jobs. And you fools are celebrating it.

  79. 79
    Corner Stone says:

    @cleek: Yeah. Well you picked up your skirts and daintily stepped across the field. Very…Carefully.
    Ever since then you’ve been scrambling like a little girl to stay in the good graces of the BJ Obots.
    It’s more than a little pathetic. Actually.

  80. 80
    Suffern ACE says:

    @73 – MK – That’s not my list. That’s bababing (GOS Poster of link’s) list.

    I’m not in favor of primarying Obama. But if they want to spend their energies doing it, fine. It’s a waste of energy, but it’s not like they’re going to be able to do anything about it. It’s not like anything can be said to calm them down. So they might as well be talking in circles.

  81. 81
    cleek says:

    @Corner Stone:
    ah. thanks for the reminder.
    enjoy your pie.

  82. 82
    Third Eye Open says:

    @Corner Stone

    C’mon, dog. Admit it you’re not even trying anymore, are you? Lose a little motivation after your mee-ma put her dentures back in, and ended your ‘AAA Blow-job’?

  83. 83
    jl says:

    @79 NR: Obama was pursuing bad macroeconomic policy before the debt ceiling crisis. By this time, my working assumption is that Obama does not agree with Keynesian theory, and we will not get good macroeconomic policy out of him, no matter what political crises pop up or are resolved.

    So, I celebrate whenever things do not turn for the worse.

  84. 84
    Corner Stone says:

    @cleek: Ahhh, pie. The last refuge of the weak.

  85. 85
    Corner Stone says:

    @Third Eye Open: cleek fucking ran scared like a lil bitch after somebody intimidated him with the dreaded firebagger tag. If I could get a chartmaker to plot it, his comments since that date and time would reflect an unending string of loyalty oaths.
    He’s a punk.

  86. 86
    Martin says:

    When did CS upgrade himself from general asshole like the rest of us to asshole troll?

    Can we trade him for BOB? BOB was at least an entertaining asshole troll.

  87. 87
    WaterGirl says:

    @ Corner Stone

    I don’t recall any fervent love, but no, my opinion of you has not changed since yesterday.

  88. 88
    Yutsano says:

    my opinion of you has not changed since yesterday

    Ouch. :)

  89. 89
    Corner Stone says:

    @WaterGirl: Oh thank goodness.

  90. 90
    Third Eye Open says:

    Dude, you cannot imagine the magnitude of the shit that I do not give about what two ‘nyms on some blog say about each-other; And even if I did care, I at least can go over to cleek’s place and bitch about it. Instead, I have to run across your dumb-shit responses, and yet unfortunately, I can’t head over to a single-wide with an outhouse that might otherwise be known as, “Corner Stone’s Fortress of Look At Me!”. So pardon me for not keeping a score-card, douche.

  91. 91
    ruemara says:

    Um, NR, just so you know, when they say “revenue increases”, those are also tax increases or tax loophole closures. Just an FYI.

  92. 92
    Suffern ACE says:

    @73 – MK – Actually, I’d find it quite humorous at this point if the entire GOS project exploded because of irreconcilable differences over whether they should get behind Elizabeth Warren or Robert Kennedy Jr. to primary Obama.

  93. 93
    Corner Stone says:

    @Third Eye Open: You can come over if you want. I’m making nachos tomorrow.

  94. 94
    WaterGirl says:

    @ Corner Stone

    I didn’t want you to be up all night worrying.

  95. 95
    Corner Stone says:

    @Martin: Martin, you’re not invited for nachos.

  96. 96
    Yutsano says:

    they should get behind Elizabeth Warren or Robert Kennedy Jr. to primary Obama.

    I thought Warren was challenging Brown for Senate. And last I heard Robert Kennedy Jr was still in rehab getting a handle on his alcohol issues. I need a list of dramatis personae now.

  97. 97
    Corner Stone says:

    @WaterGirl: I appreciate your kind thoughts. And your relative equanimity. I’m sure it’s difficult sometimes.
    You are invited for nachos. If that helps.
    I make kickass nachos.

  98. 98
    Sandmann says:

    “Nachos rule”

    ~Beavis

  99. 99
    Martin says:

    Martin, you’re not invited for nachos.

    I’m crushed.

  100. 100
    Corner Stone says:

    @Martin: It’s mainly because you want old people to starve to death, and be forced to choose between food and medicine when your vaunted C-CPI formula is put in place.
    It’s nothing personal. I’m sure you’d enjoy my nachos.

  101. 101
    WaterGirl says:

    @ Martin

    Aren’t you busy, anyway, building a new shed this weekend?

    Edit: ‘Night, all.

  102. 102
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    I’m waiting…

    I can bring a big, long, thick tubular container which dispenses Justice and a most tasty beverage; as well as a nymphomaniac who dispenses favors, for a small donation.
    .
    .

  103. 103
    dogwood says:

    Frankly, though I can’t stand Boehner, you gotta feel some empathy for a guy who gets his lifelong dream and then finds they changed the rules. And the people who changed the rules are his own caucus. He’s a throwback. He doesn’t want this fight any more than the Dems do. He wanted to be an old fashioned Speaker who could tell his caucus what the agenda was, enjoy the perks, cut some deals. He wanted the power to make em fall in line. He dreams of telling people like Michele Bachmann- if you don’t quit flapping your gums about the debt ceiling, I’ll rat-fuck your presidential campaign so hard you’ll not only lose the nomination, you’ll never hold public office again. He could do it, but it wouldn’t scare her a bit. These representatives have their own PAC’s, facebook fans , etc.. It’s 535 separate cottage industries; it’s the Huey Long Everyman a King Show followed by Joe the Plummer Knows Best.

  104. 104
    Corner Stone says:

    @Martin: Maybe you could refer that nice young lady you fired over for nachos?
    I’m sure she could use a free meal or two.

  105. 105
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Who said this?
    __
    “Government can’t replace—can’t create jobs to replace the millions that we lost in the recession, but it can create the conditions for small businesses to hire more people, through steps like tax breaks,”

    A lot of people like to truncate this so they can wank themselves silly (not that they weren’t doing that regardless). His point isn’t “government can’t create jobs,” his point is “government can’t create (jobs to replace the millions that we lost in the recession).” In other words, government can’t dig out of that hole on its own. But, you know, wank away.

    ETA: I actually think government COULD create jobs to replace the millions that we lost in the recession. So I disagree with the statement. But the statement is rather obviously NOT “government can’t create jobs.” It’s a statement about scale. Maybe it’s a false statement about scale. Argue that.

  106. 106
    Corner Stone says:

    @Uncle Clarence Thomas: Uncle Clarence Thomas! I thought we discussed this. You and anyone you care to bring are always welcome to come over for nachos.
    Unless it’s Martin. Then we should probably talk a little first.

  107. 107
    Martin says:

    Aren’t you busy, anyway, building a new shed this weekend?

    Waiting on materials – had to order some stuff. Probably will move back to next weekend, unfortunately.

  108. 108
    Rhoda says:

    There was no need for a ‘deal’ on this vote, period. Whatever cuts happen are the responsibility of the dems for not flipping Rs the bird when they first started slobbering about this whole thing.

    @baxie: First of all, the Republicans won control of the House in 2010 and they control the purse as a result. The democrats refused to raise the debt ceiling in the lame duck because they felt it was the Republicans responsibility and no one wants to take that vote. Which is why, it’s always historically been a party line vote and the party in power is responsible for that vote. Democrats, having had the stimulus demonized to death, didn’t want another vote tying them to increased spending. Second, a clean debt ceiling is out of the question. The votes for it aren’t there and they did a test vote that failed as Democrats voted against the measure too.

    This is a fucked up situation because Republicans are refusing to live up to their responsibilities. That’s the President’s and every citizen’s problem since the full faith and credit of the USA is on the line; and the boost our economy enjoys by being the world’s reserve currency.

    So, this vote is necessary to pass the debt ceiling and that means a deal is necessary. And the cuts are the responsibility of the voters that put the Republicans in power. The Republicans ran on cutting spending to fix the economy. They won on it. And now, we’re living through this mess.

  109. 109
    Martin says:

    Maybe you could refer that nice young lady you fired over for nachos? I’m sure she could use a free meal or two.

    She’s doing all right. I think I found her a new job – I’ll know on Monday – something better suited to her interests. I like her way too much to expose her to you.

  110. 110
    Yutsano says:

    I think I found her a new job

    Good for you! Hopefully it’ll take her down a better path.

  111. 111
    Corner Stone says:

    @Martin:

    She’s doing all right.

    I’m sure she is.
    You’re a very thoughtful boss. Well, ex-boss. But wevs.

  112. 112
    Suffern ACE says:

    dogwood-

    Frankly, though I can’t stand Boehner, you gotta feel some empathy for a guy who gets his lifelong dream

    O.K. but don’t dwell there too long. When the “Boehner at Rest” opera is at the Met in 20 years, we can get tickets and go and relive this moment. I’ll show up drunk and cry through the whole thing.

  113. 113
    Martin says:

    It’s mainly because you want old people to starve to death, and be forced to choose between food and medicine when your vaunted C-CPI formula is put in place.

    I think I demonstrated, with evidence and stuff, that even with medical costs factored in, SS payments relative to inflation are increasing and would continue to do so with the new index.

    But you keep on with your death panel screaming. Maybe some of your nacho friends can help you make some misspelled signs.

  114. 114
    John O says:

    There’s still a deal, it’s just a $2-3 trillion deal instead of a $4 trillion one. And it’s 100% cuts—no tax increases.

    There is going to be a $2-3 trillion cut in needed services when we have 9% unemployment. It is going to make the recession worse and cost even more jobs. And you fools are celebrating it.

    This is the way I see it, so far.

  115. 115
    FlipYrWhig says:

    cleek fucking ran scared like a lil bitch after somebody intimidated him with the dreaded firebagger tag. If I could get a chartmaker to plot it, his comments since that date and time would reflect an unending string of loyalty oaths.

    Don’t lie. You already made the chart, and it’s totally up to date. It’s like that scene in The Shining where we see that Jack Nicholson has covered every flat surface with “All Work And No Play Makes Jack a Dull Boy.”

  116. 116
    Cain says:

    @Corner Stone:

    @Third Eye Open: cleek fucking ran scared like a lil bitch after somebody intimidated him with the dreaded

    Come on man.. you know damn well that cleek isn’t scared shit of being labeled.. and the label of “firebagger” is pretty laughable. As laughable as calling me a firebagger.

  117. 117
    John O says:

    Means test SS and Medicare at some ridiculously high amount, drop the regressive FICA tax break for zillionaires, and cut defense by 15%.

    Problem solved.

  118. 118
    Texas Dem says:

    I’ve seen several blogs (not only this one but Little Green Footballs as well) spinning these latest debt-negotiation developments as “Boehner blinked.” But did he? He said he now favors a smaller package, somewhere around 2 trillion or so, because Obama continues to insist (correctly, in my view) on some tax increases. But the speaker continues to say “Hell no” to tax increases of any kind, and that position isn’t going to change absent a negative market reaction (and who knows where that will take us?).

    So now we will get a debt reduction package that cuts 2 trillion and still has no revenue increases. And there will have to be another debt increase before the 2012 election. Good luck with that. Can someone please explain how this is a win for our side? To borrow a line from Pyrrhus, “One more such victory and the cause is lost.”

  119. 119
    ABL says:

    This is my first experience with this “corner stone” dude here in the comments. Who the hell is this character?

    someone whom you should pie immediately.

    Corner Stone – July 9, 2011 | 10:54 pm · Link

    When all is said and done, pie is still excellent.

    of course, after reading a thread in which he has done his Troll Two Step, one really wants to eat a tremendous amount of pie. be prepared.

  120. 120
    boss bitch says:

    @John O:

    the quoted statment is false and was corrected upthread.

  121. 121
    Mnemosyne says:

    On the eve of a second round of high-level bipartisan talks set for Sunday, Mr. Boehner issued a statement saying he would now urge negotiators to instead focus on crafting a smaller package more in line with the $2 trillion to $3 trillion in spending cuts and revenue increases negotiated earlier by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

    “Crafting” means “creating.” That means that this new $2 to $3 trillion package that you’re wailing about doesn’t actually exist.

    Boehner’s saying he wants a new package similar to (aka “more in line with”) the Biden-negotiated package, not that he’s accepting the Biden package as negotiated.

    Again, reading comprehension is your friend.

  122. 122
    Yutsano says:

    one really wants to eat a tremendous amount of pie

    Blueberry. The real American pie if you think about it.

  123. 123
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Back on the subject: I don’t quite get how it’s a Boehner Blink. Is the idea that if he was really hardcore he would have insisted on the $4T deal?

  124. 124
    Corner Stone says:

    @ABL: Like I said. Last refuge of the weak. Or maybe DFD is the last refuge of the weak?
    No, pie is the last refuge of the weak.

    drops the mike

  125. 125
    Suffern ACE says:

    My guess:

    Loopholes closed.
    FY11 Cuts-rounding error
    FY12 Cuts-rounding error
    FY13-20 cuts – $2T.

    If it looks like that-could we declare the final outcome a win? Or do we have to demand that Obama solve all liberal messaging problems and bridge all ideological differences within the Democratic party that have cropped up over the last 40 years in the next three weeks before we can declare some sort of “victory.”

  126. 126
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cain: Firebagger!!

  127. 127
    ABL says:

    Blueberry. The real American pie if you think about it.

    surely, you jest! it’s apple or go home, sir!

  128. 128
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @ Suffern: I’ll keep my eyes on what happens to _benefits_. If it’s possible to make cuts that leave benefits unscathed, bring ’em on.

    ETA: People would still grouse about how there was no reason to tackle long-term deficit issues in lieu of short-term stimulus (i.e., “jobs”). They would be right. But given a crazy-ass Republican majority, I don’t think it’s a terrible idea to try to convert mania for “cuts” into long-term fixes for things like Medicare, which everyone used to agree actually needed fixing. Make an alliance between the cutters and the technocrats and try to salvage something useful out of a shitty moment.

  129. 129
    Yutsano says:

    it’s apple or go home, sir

    My dear lady:

    Apples originated in what is now Kazakhstan.

    The blueberry bush is native to North America.

    Your responsa?

  130. 130
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cain: Listen. It’s pretty clear to anyone paying attention here.
    cleek used to dissent once in a while. In fact, he was a veritable fount of dissent.
    Then he got hung with the firebagger tag a couple threads. I’m not bullshitting, and I’m not making it up.
    Ever since then, he’s been hard core in one direction.

    Now, maybe he got his mind right. And that’s cool. But the timing was dead on.
    And it’s not like I go around saying this all the time and shit.

  131. 131
    ABL says:

    What’s so bad about that, even the firebaggers bow down to Grover. Grover can’t be that bad if he has the queen of the firebaggers blowing him.

    that will never cease to amaze me. also, that she is so revered amongst the ‘baggers that they don’t even seem to care that she colluded with the Tea Party. that, too, will never cease to amaze me.

    velly intellesting.

  132. 132
    ABL says:

    Apples originated in what is now Kazakhstan.

    ah yes… that old kazakhstani exceptionalism!

    can we agree on apple-blueberry? mixed pie?

  133. 133
    Corner Stone says:

    @Yutsano: Chocolate pie is may favorite. For the record and the filter.
    Nothing like a good old fashioned chocolate pudding pie with a flaky crust and some cool whip.

  134. 134
    Mnemosyne says:

    @ cleek

    BTW, I have discovered that many of your wise pie sayings work just as well with cupcakes substituted as the pastry of choice. Some I had to leave as pie, though, since Warrant never sang about cupcakes.

  135. 135
    ABL says:

    When did CS upgrade himself from general asshole like the rest of us to asshole troll?

    i think it is a result of “ABL Derangement Syndrome.”

    it’s a swift and merciless affliction.

  136. 136
    ABL says:

    BTW, I have discovered that many of your wise pie sayings work just as well with cupcakes substituted as the pastry of choice. Some I had to leave as pie, though, since Warrant never sang about cupcakes.

    She’s my cherry… cupcake.

    you’re right. doesn’t work as well!

  137. 137
    Corner Stone says:

    @Martin: You’re just jealous because you’re not invited for nachos.
    And Senator Bernie Sanders says your formula change is going to cost seniors some $500 per year in cuts.
    Now, you can argue with him all you like. Or you can go fuck yourself.
    Either way, I’m having nachos tomorrow.

  138. 138
    Mnemosyne says:

    Back on the subject: I don’t quite get how it’s a Boehner Blink. Is the idea that if he was really hardcore he would have insisted on the $4T deal?

    The idea is that if Boehner’s concern was actually the deficit and not killing the New Deal, he would leap at the chance to reduce the deficit even more than was originally offered.

    Now he’s proven in front of the whole country ** that he’s more interested in protecting rich people from higher taxes than he is in deficit reduction.

    ** Well, that portion of the whole country that actually follows this stuff, anyway.

  139. 139
    Martin says:

    Good for you! Hopefully it’ll take her down a better path.

    I hope so. I really do like her a lot – she’s very bright, she just needs to learn to step up. My office is too small to carry someone that doesn’t chase after work, we’re half the size we were 2 years ago due to budget cuts and everyone needs to be working on two things and also ready to tackle whatever emergency pops up. The office I’m hoping will take her is more closely related to what she studied in school and is larger, and hopefully will be able to give her something more structured than I could. She was clearly the strongest candidate. I don’t regret hiring her.

    Honestly, we’ve got too many different responsibilities and not enough positions – so everyone needs to have multiple skills and a lot of self-motivation. Hiring has always been difficult because of it, and staff succession is really, really challenging.

  140. 140
    Cain says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Now, maybe he got his mind right. And that’s cool. But the timing was dead on.
    And it’s not like I go around saying this all the time and shit.

    Dunno man.. it’s unfortunate he pie’d you cuz he did try to engage you with some seriousness. I wouldn’t have done it. I think in general you’re a good guy, and people tend to get way more emotional than they should when you get in their faces.

    BTW I wear your firebagger label with pride. :)

  141. 141
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @107 Corner Stone

    Why thank you, you are very gracious. However, it has come to my attention that an Official Balloonbagger Holiday may prevent my attendance – “1,002 U.S. Troops Have Died In Afghanistan Under Obama”. My driver may not be able to avoid the celebratory traffic.
    .
    .

  142. 142
    Corner Stone says:

    Oh ABL, I love how obsessed with me you are. You just can’t help yourself, and I love that. #joefromLibya
    #LoooOOOoooOOOming

  143. 143
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cain: He ran and pie’d me because he’s not ready to face his inner firebagger.

    Not kidding, night and day after that. Scalded cat.

  144. 144
    Third Eye Open says:

    @Yutsano

    Blueberry. The real American pie if you think about it.

    I vote for Pecan pie and anything to the contrary is only more evidence of your communist proclivities. Honestly though, I am more of a cobbler-man, myself.

  145. 145
    Yutsano says:

    can we agree on apple-blueberry? mixed pie?

    I find your ideas intriguing…call it the Barack just for kicks?

    Honestly though, I am more of a cobbler-man, myself

    Blueberry cobbler is also quite acceptable. We could even throw some pecans in there somewhere too.

  146. 146
    Cain says:

    @Corner Stone:

    @Cain: He ran and pie’d me because he’s not ready to face his inner firebagger.

    cleek doesn’t strike me as a guy who can’t say Obama is full of shit.

    Anyways… you seem to have a pie fight on your hands. Good luck. :)

  147. 147
    ruemara says:

    Before we settle into the Obot/Firebagger War VIX, I distinctly recall the discussion of Medicaid/Medicare cuts to be revolving around payout cuts, not benefit cuts. At no point in time have I heard of a benefit cut being on the table. Considering that payout cuts were discussed before this latest wave of emoprog mania, why didn’t those discussions get this much coverage? Plus, why is Congress so interested in dragging the president into their business? How often is a President directly involved in debt negotiations? I know this us unprecedented, but to what degree?

  148. 148
    ABL says:

    Blueberry cobbler is also quite acceptable. We could even throw some pecans in there somewhere too.

    i’ve been told i make a mean pecan pie, but i’m opposed to this pecan mandate.

  149. 149
    ABL says:

    I find your ideas intriguing…call it the Barack just for kicks?

    Barack a la mode. I’m in.

  150. 150
    Gravenstone says:

    Corner Stone – July 10, 2011 | 1:32 am · Link
    __
    PiePiePiePiePiePiePiePie!

    Says all that needs saying. But damn straight, when the pied ones get particularly mouthy in a thread, diabetic coma become a real danger.

  151. 151
    ABL says:

    i got a twofer:

    Uncle Clarence Thomas – July 10, 2011 | 1:31 am · Link

    What’s hot, moist, and crusty around the edges? Pie!

    Corner Stone – July 10, 2011 | 1:32 am · Link

    What’s hot, moist, and crusty around the edges? Pie!

    do i win something?

  152. 152
    Martin says:

    I don’t quite get how it’s a Boehner Blink. Is the idea that if he was really hardcore he would have insisted on the $4T deal?

    I think there are two problems here he now has:

    1) The teabaggers want something bold and dramatic. The talk out of the entire GOP has been that we need to go big. So when Obama offers to go big, Bohner backs down (because he doesn’t have the votes in his caucus for that).
    2) The GOP has invested everything in the narrative that Obama is unserious. Every time Bohner went big (even bigger than he could deliver on) Obama went bigger.

    I don’t think Obama can deliver the votes for his plans any more than Boehner can deliver for his, so this is really just a pissing match between the two. Boehner and the GOP have been promising big progress on the deficit for a year – and now they’re saying ‘no, let’s do something small’. It doesn’t buy Obama anything with the left, but it’s going to hurt Boehner badly with the right.

    This is campaigning.

  153. 153
    Uncle Clarence Thomas says:

    .
    .
    @152 ABL

    Whatever you win, I know you won’t activate your fudge stick filter on me.
    .
    .

  154. 154
    FlipYrWhig says:

    At no point in time have I heard of a benefit cut being on the table.

    Probably because you interpret actual statements, rather than imaginary nonsense.

    The Washington Post quoted an insider — or, really, more like an insider-by-proxy familiar with how insiders tend to think — and butchered it because of a complete inability to comprehend the distinction you made right up front. As has happened repeatedly.

    For all the supposed contempt that the liberal blogosphere has for the media, people sure trust it when they feel like they haven’t thrown a good tantrum recently enough.

  155. 155
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cain:

    cleek doesn’t strike me as a guy who can’t say Obama is full of shit.

    You let me know the next time that happens. Obama is a politician so I’m sure it will come up again shortly.
    Let’s wait and see.

  156. 156
    Yutsano says:

    The teabaggers want something bold and dramatic.

    No the teabaggers want nothing done. Zip. Zero. Nada. No deals of any kind with the Islamofascistcommunokenyanusurper. The fact that The Actual Orange Satan is even working on anything with Obama is hurting him. They want no debt ceiling raise and a default because libruls want it and anything that pisses off libruls is good by default. Boehner knows he’s in trouble because he can’t play two masters any more. Couldn’t happen to a nicer Oompa-Loompa.

  157. 157
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo !!) says:

    that she is so revered amongst the ‘baggers that they don’t even seem to care that she colluded with the Tea Party. that, too, will never cease to amaze me.

    ABL,

    she’s the Naderite’s palin. she can say and do anything (collaborate with fixxed news, even racist cartoons) because geeky-white-male-shut-ins have a physical crush on her

  158. 158
    Third Eye Open says:

    @ABL, Yutsano:

    You’re nuts!

    Ok, I am over that, now back to this assertion that you make mean pies … I must know if you’re a Karo or Molasses-woman? This is a deal-breaker, so choose carefully.

  159. 159
    Martin says:

    And Senator Bernie Sanders says your formula change is going to cost seniors some $500 per year in cuts.

    He’s right, eventually. By then they’ll also be getting payments of $30K+ per year.

    And the reasoning everyone, including him keep using is that only minor changes to SS are needed but we can’t politically afford to do anything now. Well, with every year, we’ll need to do more – and bigger changes to SS in 5 years or 10 years or 15 years is going to be politically easier? I don’t see that ever playing out.

  160. 160
    Yutsano says:

    I must know if you’re a Karo or Molasses-woman?

    Is this a trick question? We’re not making shoo-fly here!

  161. 161
    Corner Stone says:

    I’m not sure there’s anything better than ABL proudly pie filtering me.
    She’s loudly capitulating. She’s done. She’s got nothing and is the weakest of weak sisters. She absconds from environments that don’t kiss her ass and stroke her weak ass fragile ego.
    She couldn’t ban me no matter how much shit she talked about it. So now she gets to re-quote pie statements and celebrate.
    Seems fitting to her level of bloggerdom.

  162. 162
    Martin says:

    No the teabaggers want nothing done.

    Well, sure, but that’s the ‘don’t raise the debt ceiling’ answer. Boehner is going to raise it – he has to. Everyone knows that, including him. So knowing he can’t deliver them that, he needs to deliver them something else big. And he can’t do it.

  163. 163
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo !!) says:

    For all the supposed contempt that the liberal blogosphere has for the media, people sure trust it when they feel like they haven’t thrown a good tantrum recently enough.

    I never-ever trust the Kaplan post, unless it aids my pre-determined, axe-to-grind, fundraising narrative.

  164. 164
    burnspbesq says:

    @lacp:

    The linked NewsMax piece is a hoot. Here’s the heads of a bunch of Tea Party outfits opining on debt and the deficit, and it’s clear that none of them has the foggiest idea what he’s talking about. Doubt that any of them has a higher IQ than an aphid.

    There are some folks here who would also fit that description.

    There’s no point in having this discussion with anybody who (a) doesn’t understand Keynes or (b) can’t count to 218. And far too many people here (you know who you are) appear to fail condition (b).

  165. 165
    Yutsano says:

    Boehner is going to raise it – he has to

    Yep. And he’ll get primaried. And most likely lose. Before that, though, Cantor aims for his gavel. But the money boys will take care of him after office but only if he plays along. The end result could be another Democrat from Ohio.

  166. 166
    Martin says:

    And far too many people here (you know who you are) appear to fail condition (b).

    Nachos with more than 100 chips don’t come out cheesy enough, so chalk that up to a lack of practice.

  167. 167
    Third Eye Open says:

    Shorter Corner Stone: “The fact you’re ignoring me means I win … something!”

  168. 168
    burnspbesq says:

    @ Corner Stone:

    What’s your problem tonight? You’re always an asshole, but you’re really outdoing yourself in this thread.

  169. 169
    ruemara says:

    Kinda disappointed. BJers are usually good for some wonky policy goodness. Instead it’s the all CS show. Do we have to be so damn human? Surely we can talk about Biden talks, which were going on for a few weeks prior to this blow out? Um not now tho, I’m off to bed.

  170. 170
    Martin says:

    The end result could be another Democrat from Ohio.

    Perhaps, but given their most recent choice for Governor, I’m not holding my breath.

  171. 171
    Third Eye Open says:

    Yutsano: Is this a trick question? We’re not making shoo-fly here!

    A person whom cannot bring themselves to bask in the sticky glory of molasses is a person I cannot have a beer with (or pie, for that matter). Otherwise, slice me up a large portion of Tres Leches.

  172. 172
    burnspbesq says:

    @Gravenstone:

    But damn straight, when the pied ones get particularly mouthy in a thread, diabetic coma become a real danger.

    Wanna borrow a couple of Glucotrols?

  173. 173
    dogwood says:

    Can someone please explain how this is a win for our side?

    I think a lot a people just mean that seeing Boehner squirm and get some bad press is a good thing. I have no idea what this will come down to but, however it shakes out, a portion of the netroots and the entire Teaparty will see it as a loss. When all or nothing is the bottom line, winning is virtually impossible. Each side would rather default than give an inch. That won’t happen but if it did the teaparty who actually feel that default wouldn’t hurt the economy will simply claim it didn’t. The netroots who know the consequences of default would just blame Obama because they would refuse to accept responsibility for the chaos that would ensue as a result of him doing what they seem to wanted him to do.

  174. 174
    Corner Stone says:

    @Martin: Hey. Dog me all you want. My nachos rule.

  175. 175
    Cain says:

    @Gravenstone:

    Says all that needs saying. But damn straight, when the pied ones get particularly mouthy in a thread, diabetic coma become a real danger.

    I have never pie’d anybody. It’s just seems wrong. No matter how obnoxious (unless it’s like spam trolling) I don’t like doing it. Cornerstone (as well as JSF) challenges truths that I think I hold. Sometimes they make sense and sometimes I think they are just trolling. I know when to scroll right past the stuff I don’t really think works. It’s not a linear read for me. I can easily skip past things if they don’t interest me and I’m sure people do the same for mine.

  176. 176
    Cain says:

    @Martin:

    1) The teabaggers want something bold and dramatic. The talk out of the entire GOP has been that we need to go big. So when Obama offers to go big, Bohner backs down (because he doesn’t have the votes in his caucus for that).

    I’m struck by the fact that the liberal base wants something equally bold and dramatic from Obama. They want optics at least those who stir up drama. Optics is all good but it won’t get results most of the time. The president is the focus because really the Hamshers of the world are pissed at the general U.S. population.

    cain

  177. 177
    Texas Dem says:

    Boehner is going to raise it – he has to

    Maybe, but I doubt it. At least not before the market forces him to do so. And that will impose unimaginable costs on the country. Obama should be able to win re-election after that, but with a 9.2 percent unemployment rate, who knows? Maybe we’ll just have continued stalemate until January 2013, at which point a unified GOP government will impose its own version of debt reduction on the country–without any input from Dems or progressives.

  178. 178
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo !!) says:

    I don’t think changing COLAs from CPI to chained-CPI is a good idea. So I’m against it.

    But I’ll note that the people who aren’t simply against it but who are acting hysterical are also the same people who wanted to kill ACA.

    This goes to my point about how geeky white male naderites (ie firebaggers) don’t care about people they can’t relate to. They don’t care if Roe v Wade is overturned, they engage in race baiting (Liebermann minstrel man blackface cartoon), and they don’t care about health insurance for those with pre-conditions. They care about social security colas because it affects them, but they could care less about people who can’t access health insurance.

  179. 179
    Corner Stone says:

    Man. Archer is just the freakin’ shit.

  180. 180
    Mike Kay ( Geronimo !!) says:

    I’m struck by the fact that the liberal base wants something equally bold and dramatic from Obama.

    why does that surprise you? they’ve always been that way. I remember when they had a meltdown because Pelosi didn’t impeach bush. To this very day, people post comments about how NancySmash sucks for taking impeachment off the table.

  181. 181
    tam1MI says:

    I wonder if we are not looking at a GUNS OF AUGUST-type situation, where Congress (both sides) and Obama manage to blunder themselves into default and worldwide economic collapse without really meaning to do so.

  182. 182
    dogwood says:

    Reading through this thread I saw a mention of Little Green Footballs and realized I had forgotten about Charles Johnson. This is his top story right now:

    Radical Religious Right Group Retracts ‘Marriage Pledge’ Slavery Language

    Interesting, as Prof. Reynolds might way

  183. 183
    NR says:

    “Crafting” means “creating.” That means that this new $2 to $3 trillion package that you’re wailing about doesn’t actually exist.

    You’re arguing semantics. Both sides are now saying that there will be a $2-3 trillion deal, and both sides agree that it will not contain any tax increases. The point stands.

  184. 184
    Yutsano says:

    Both sides are now saying that there will be a $2-3 trillion deal, and both sides agree that it will not contain any tax increases.

    Just out of curiosity, where are you getting this information?

  185. 185
    NR says:

    Check the NYT article I linked to earlier.

    The narrower package negotiated by Mr. Biden in a series of meetings with House and Senate Democrats was still considered large enough to allow for a debt hike through most of 2012. It combined a series of spending cuts that both Republicans and Democrats had identified in a range of federal agencies and programs, with some new revenue generated through options such as requiring federal employees to contribute more to their pensions, cuts in agriculture subsidies and the sale of federal assets.

  186. 186
    Xenos says:

    @NR:

    You’re arguing semantics. Both sides are now saying that there will be a $2-3 trillion deal, and both sides agree that it will not contain any tax increases. The point stands.

    That is where the point stands today. Check back in in two days, when half the Tea Party peels off when they have had a chance to look at this deal.

    Then check out what demands Pelosi makes. That will not be a deal, but the only imaginable alternative, and it will blow up too.

    And then Wall Street is going to kick into action, and the Republican leadership is going to be brought to heel.

    I think Obama may very well get the clean raising of the debt limit after all.

    ETA: And if Obama does not get that, it will because there will be a complete collapse of the Republican leadership. So he has to juggle some financial shit and calm down the international markets while the GOP house caucus sorts out its civil war.

  187. 187
    Mnemosyne says:

    You’re arguing semantics.

    Again, I find it amusing that you claim I’m arguing “semantics” when it comes to a deal that doesn’t actually exist. Next up, NR informs us that it’s arguing semantics to point out that it doesn’t matter if he thinks that 10 or 15 angels dance the head of a pin since angels don’t actually exist in the first place.

    ETA: If Boehner was announcing that he was now going to be accepting the earlier deal, then I would be arguing semantics. But Boehner is saying that he wants something kind of like the earlier deal, but re-negotiated. Which means that there is, in fact, no existing deal since Boehner is still rejecting the $2 to $3 trillion one that was negotiated earlier and wants a new one.

  188. 188
    NR says:

    ETA: If Boehner was announcing that he was now going to be accepting the earlier deal, then I would be arguing semantics. But Boehner is saying that he wants something kind of like the earlier deal, but re-negotiated.

    So the end result will be the earlier deal or something even worse. Again: The point stands.

  189. 189
    Yutsano says:

    Which means that there is, in fact, no existing deal since Boehner is still rejecting the $2 to $3 trillion one that was negotiated earlier and wants a new one.

    Translation: he’s stalling. Which means he’s trapped and he knows it.

    So the end result will be the earlier deal or something even worse.

    Oh for fuck’s sake. Now you’re just being emo to reinforce your own narratives. Tell me, if it’s nowhere near as bad as you say, are you planning to commit seppuku in shame?

  190. 190
    pattonbt says:

    I still do not see this as a “blink” from Boner or any sign that the tide may be turning. For the media, they will still pimp the fight and goad Boner on to the countries detriment. The media wants this more than anyone. I mean think of the disaster if the debt ceiling isn’t raised. Many intrepid reporters will make their bones of the carcass of that disaster. Call me cynical if you wish, but the media doesn’t care, they know they won’t be affected like the little people. And papers sell better if things are on fire.

    And here’s Boner’s easy way out which will be bought hook line and sinker “We tried to work with the Admin, but tax increases will destroy the economy. The economy the Dems threw in wastebasket when the Kenyan usurper was elected and brought this country to soshulism. So we, the Patriotic, Brave, Red, WHITE and Blue Americans HAD to say NO!!. We are trying to save the country here!!. Because tax increases are more evil than Hitler, because shut up thats why”.

    Game, set, match Boner.

  191. 191
    pattonbt says:

    Also too, that is why I still think Obama will “blink” (because he already has) in the end and we will end up with a “deal” that none of us really like. We all know this is a made up controversy, but the Republicans are willing to destroy things and Obama isn’t. When the odds are like that, it’s obvious who is going to “win” and “lose”. We only win by staving of economic catastrophe. But we lose because we never should have even been going down this road in the first place.

    It will never be reported properly that the Reps put this countries economic future to the barrel of a gun and said “we dare you!” just because they could and only for political gain. There is no other way to see what they are doing. And I believe they will get away with it and we will have to eat a shit sandwich (and get blamed) for it.

    Boner is a happy man right now. But like Bush, History is the only place where he will get his comeuppance.

  192. 192
    NR says:

    Oh for fuck’s sake. Now you’re just being emo to reinforce your own narratives. Tell me, if it’s nowhere near as bad as you say, are you planning to commit seppuku in shame?

    You don’t start with a bad deal, negotiate with the Republicans, and end up with something better. Have you not been paying attention recently?

  193. 193
    Yutsano says:

    You don’t start with a bad deal

    THERE IS NO DEAL!! Jeebus H Bieber on a unicycle how many times does this have to get explained to you?? Nothing has been set to paper, voted on by both chambers of Congress, and signed by the President yet. When that happens, THEN there is a deal. And if it sucks I’ll be the first to say so.

  194. 194
    NR says:

    It will never be reported properly that the Reps put this countries economic future to the barrel of a gun and said “we dare you!” just because they could and only for political gain. There is no other way to see what they are doing. And I believe they will get away with it and we will have to eat a shit sandwich (and get blamed) for it.

    This is only because Obama won’t do what Clinton did in 1995. As bad as Clinton was, he was willing to say that the debt ceiling is not fodder for negotiation.

    Obama’s mistake (if indeed it was a mistake) was engaging in negotiations over the debt ceiling in the first place.

  195. 195
    Mnemosyne says:

    We all know this is a made up controversy, but the Republicans are willing to destroy things and Obama isn’t. When the odds are like that, it’s obvious who is going to “win” and “lose”.

    You really think that the banksters are going to let the Republicans crash the world economy just to get revenge on Obama?

    Wall Street has been SCREAMING about the debt ceiling for three months now and demanding that the Republicans fix the problem. Boehner and the rest of the leadership keep telling Wall Street that everything’s fine, it’s all under control, the debt ceiling will totally get raised.

    Trust me, Boehner is not a happy man right now, because he has dozens of calls from screaming banksters on his voicemail demanding that he fix this problem RIGHT FUCKING NOW so they don’t lose millions (if not billions) of dollars. And the banksters are screaming at Boehner because their creditors are screaming at them demanding up-front payments just in case Boehner doesn’t know what he’s doing and the whole economy collapses.

    Boehner is caught between Wall Street and the Tea Party, and any solution that will mollify one faction will cause the other to go absolutely fucking ballistic with very little middle ground possible. Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy, really.

  196. 196
    NR says:

    THERE IS NO DEAL!!

    Again: This is semantics. Both sides are saying $2-3 trillion. Both sides are saying no tax increases. The only thing still being negotiated is the specifics of how people get screwed. That’s it. The general framework of the deal has already been agreed upon. The only question that remains is if it will have to be made even worse to appease the teabaggers.

  197. 197
    Mnemosyne says:

    This is only because Obama won’t do what Clinton did in 1995.

    Oh, please. Like you wouldn’t be in here losing your shit and demanding Obama’s impeachment if he did exactly what Clinton did in 1995 and shut down the government.

  198. 198
    NR says:

    Actually, I would be ecstatic if Obama decided to actually stand up to the Republicans for a change.

    But he won’t. He doesn’t have the stomach for it. And the Republicans know it.

  199. 199
    Mnemosyne says:

    Again: This is semantics.

    You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

  200. 200
    Yutsano says:

    Okay, I’m done banging my head against a wall. Have fun with emoboy Mnem. I’m gonna crash.

  201. 201
    Mnemosyne says:

    Actually, I would be ecstatic if Obama decided to actually stand up to the Republicans for a change.

    Really? You would be “ecstatic” if retirees stopped getting Social Security payments, veterans stopped getting healthcare, and the CDC stopped disease monitoring? You would be coming here talking about how wonderful it was that Obama made sure that all of those things would happen by standing up to the Republicans?

    You don’t know yourself very well, do you?

  202. 202
    Mnemosyne says:

    Oh, and since NR seems to think that shutting down the government would be consequence-free

    Indeed, it was only through the use of some fairly extraordinary measures by President Clinton’s Treasury Department, including a temporary use of retirement funds for former government employees, that the United States managed to avoid defaulting on its national debt during this period. Unfortunately, such measures would not be as effective today, as analysts at Deutsche Bank found. They worry that if it happened today the federal government would “not be able to stave off a government shutdown (or possible suspension of bond payments) for long.”

    Yes, I’m sure NR would be jumping for joy if all of that happened after Obama refused to negotiate.

  203. 203
    NR says:

    And now you’re just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole, so I’m outta here. Have fun whacking at straw hippies.

  204. 204
    lacp says:

    I’m not too optimistic. Within very recent memory, the banksters made a fortune while blowing up the world’s economy. If they’ve figured out a way to do the same again by way of a US default, they’re not going to put the brakes on the Republicans. I think we’re hosed.

  205. 205
    ABL says:

    Ok, I am over that, now back to this assertion that you make mean pies … I must know if you’re a Karo or Molasses-woman? This is a deal-breaker, so choose carefully.

    molasses.

    ::braces self::

  206. 206
    Mnemosyne says:

    I’m gonna crash.

    I need to go, too — I have to be at work at 8:15 am tomorrow, which is 7 hours from now.

    This is what I get for casting on a new sweater at 11:00 at night — “Just One More Row” ends up creating a toxic stew with “Someone Is Wrong On the Internet!” and I end up staying up way later than I planned.

  207. 207
    ABL says:

    A person whom cannot bring themselves to bask in the sticky glory of molasses is a person I cannot have a beer with (or pie, for that matter). Otherwise, slice me up a large portion of Tres Leches.

    oh thank jebus.

    ::wipes brow::

    Karo is corn syrup, is it not? Corn syrup is the debil.

  208. 208
    ABL says:

    THERE IS NO DEAL!! Jeebus H Bieber on a unicycle how many times does this have to get explained to you?? Nothing has been set to paper, voted on by both chambers of Congress, and signed by the President yet. When that happens, THEN there is a deal. And if it sucks I’ll be the first to say so.

    my plan is working. mwa-HA!

  209. 209
    Anya says:

    I see you guys are still carrying on the flame war. Do some of you sleep at all? Me, I just came to a realization that my body’s not built anymore for late night partying (or in this case, late night/early morning).

  210. 210
    Mike Kay (Team America) says:

    Front page of Sunday’s NY Times blames Boehner for the mess.

    http://www.nytimes.com/images/.....e/scan.jpg

    Even the liberal Kaplan Post calls Boehner a puszy

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....10/Ax1.jpg

  211. 211
    Mike Kay (Team America) says:

    Only a couple more weeks of this Kabuki and then we can return to primarying/impeaching Obama for not personally endorsing gay marriage.

  212. 212
    A Humble Lurker says:

    @ Corner Stone

    Oh, I remember you now! You were the frightened young man who Hilary Clinton was going to save from teh scary negro! How’d that work out for ya?

  213. 213
    bob h says:

    And David Brooks, on Friday’s Newshour, just got finished saying Boehner has been “wonderful” on the debt talks.

    A Grand Bargain with $1 trillion in revenue enhancements might well have been a grand accomplishment for Obama, to go with ACA, killing bin Laden and squashing Al Qaeda, etc., and the Republicans want to deny him that.

  214. 214
  215. 215
    harlana says:

    I never thought I would say anything positive about Boehner, but, if I had to choose, I prefer his tearful bluster to Cantor’s eternal whining. And I think most of it is bluster, I think he is more grounded in reality and was simply playing the perfunctory role of opposing Obama on everything in order to appease them and, of course, now they feel betrayed and very angry. More fracturing of the republican party. Me like.

  216. 216
    harlana says:

    NamelessGenXer: I can’t watch MTP but has David Gregory or any of his very serious counterparts EVER mentioned this? I think throughout this whole debt “crisis” it might have been a tad relevant but I’m guessing it was ignored for convenience and to make republicans look real serious and bold and stuff.

  217. 217
    Ash Can says:

    @harlana: I chuckle every time I think of that ACA “summit” panel meeting, when Obama pointed over to Cantor, who sat with a pile of binders in front of him, and said, “Now don’t tell me, let me guess. That’s all 14,578 pages of the health care act you have there.” Cantor was all set to bleat out the talking point of “this bill is a bazillion pages long and it’s too long and complicated,” complete with nifty props for full theatrical effect, and Obama just blew it all up in his face. All he could do was sit there with his mouth hanging open. The look on his face was priceless. Now, every time I see him, I think of that moment. It’s impossible for me to take anything he does or says seriously any more.

  218. 218
    Rick Taylor says:

    Why is Obama even negotiating with this clown? Boehner is the leader of the house. It’s his job to get a bill to raise the debt ceiling through that can pass the Senate.

  219. 219
    Third Eye Open says:

    ABL; Karo is corn syrup, is it not? Corn syrup is the debil.

    Oh, yes it is, but you cannot walk into a Publix without having to move a metric ass-load of Karo out of the way to find molasses. It’s a sad state of affairs. Luckily for everyone around me, I don’t bake. But I sure will help you eat some of it. Perhaps we can determine if your pie has a hot, hot ass

  220. 220
    cleek says:

    @Mnemosyne:
    perhaps i could add a cupcake option!

  221. 221
    cleek says:

    @NamelessGenXer:
    and Obama voted against raising it in 2006. pols love t play games with the debt thingy

  222. 222
    Matthew says:

    Boehner blinked? Yay! Now progressives can apparently celebrate a huge win! We showed them, right? How, exactly, is this a win for anyone who doesn’t favor strangling the federal government out of existence? What the hell are you people celebrating? Our Democratic President has jumped on the deficit-reduction bandwagon and ceded the economic argument to a bunch of nihilistic dead-enders whose goal is the reinstatement of a feudal system.

  223. 223
    Danny says:

    Late to the party, but I thought I’d provide a counter balance to run of the mill firebagger fortune telling of whats gonna be in a future debt ceiling deal (as provided by corner stone et al).

    Here’s what some republicans leaked to The Corner @NRO about the negotiations:

    “The White House would not agree with the core elements of tax reform proposed by the Speaker,” Republican familiar with the talks says. “A gulf also remains between the Speaker and the White House on the issue of medium and long-term structural reforms.”

    As a Hill source told Reuters’ James Pethokoukis earlier today: “WH is demanding major, unambiguous tax hikes. To get spending caps & entitlement tweaks, greater economic pain appears to be the WH’s asking price.”

    The White House is keeping mum on what they’ve offered of course, and self proclaimed tru progressives got no balls but starts freaking out and expect the worse as per usual. Pussies.

  224. 224
    pattonbt says:

    Mnem @196

    I agree, to an extent, that Boner is not in his happiest of places (having a scotch on the golf course funded by lobbyists) right now, but to a degree he is in a win win situation.

    If it was as you say, that the Banksters are screaming at him, then this deal would be done and we wouldn’t be going down this road period. I haven;t heard any screaming from the banksters. I seen some level headed reporting from some sane sources laying out how disasterous not raising the limit would be, but they also scream about tax increases being the root of all evil and only cuts on por are OK.

    I mean even the vaunted Warren Buffet only had a tepid statement publicly the other day “please get a deal done”. Not “raise the gad damned limit” but “please get a DEAL done”.

    We shouldn’t even be talking about deals period. This is a no brainer and the limit should be raised with nothing attached.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m not using this as a means to bash Obama, he’s fucked ten ways to Sunday on this.

    But Boner doesn’t give a shit. They all believe that they will skate (which they will) if all goes wrong. Even if the country goes in the shitter, Boner and his cabal will be feted. And they will achieve their real goal, killing Obamas reeletion.

    Now, I am sure that as an individual, Boner knows hes playing with fire, but atthis time he knows he absolutely doesnt have to blink. Obama, unfortunately, does. And Obama will, because he has no choice.

    And any story right now trying to paint Boner as blinking is only a mechanism to goad him and his crazy caucus to get nasty again. The media doesn’t care about the consequences, they care about the fight. And if they see Boner stoping the fight, they will get his masters to kick him in the ass to start the fight again.

    The media wants its blood. When Boner and the Reps started this debt ceiling shit, the media knew what the consequences were and have been praying to Cthulu tht it comes to fruition. This story is media gold and anything to derail it will be stopped if t all possible. The media was promised economic collapse, so bring it.

  225. 225
    Corner Stone says:

    @pattonbt:

    Now, I am sure that as an individual, Boner knows hes playing with fire, but atthis time he knows he absolutely doesnt have to blink. Obama, unfortunately, does. And Obama will, because he has no choice.

    If anyone wants to find out the personification of Black Jimmy Carter, let’s just let the US default.

  226. 226
    Corner Stone says:

    @A Humble Lurker:

    Oh, I remember you now! You were the frightened young man who Hilary Clinton was going to save from teh scary negro!

    Yes. Black people scare me. I…I’ve never seen one in real life. Their strange logic and unconventional circumstances make me question my essential whiteness.

  227. 227
    fuckwit says:

    This has been the strategy all along. Rethugs don’t actually want to fix the deficit! They have been raising it– on PURPOSE– since Reagan, in order to use it as an excuse to try to drown the government (and all of us poor people) in the bathtub. That’s Norquist’s mission. Obama knew that. Everyone who has been looking at this stuff knows that, and I’m sure inside the beltway that’s like duh, common knowledge, where ya been the last 30 years, eh?

    Obama finally called their bluff by taking their stated concerns seriously, respectfully, and at face value. If the deficit is The Most Pressing Problem Ever Faced, just like Rethugs have been saying for the 30 years they’ve been running them up, then let’s take it seriously and actually FACE it. And facing it means restoring taxes for the rich. Moreover, and wait for this, once it’s fixed, then RETHUGS CAN’T USE IT AS AN EXCUSE FOR TAX CUTS ANYMORE!

    There is no way, no how, in hell, heaven, or earth, that the Rethugs are EVER going to fix the deficit. Because…. they don’t WANT it fixed. They want to keep it around as a club to beat up liberals with. That is all it is really.

  228. 228
    fuckwit says:

    @Mmemosyn: “Boehner is caught between Wall Street and the teabaggers, and any solution that will mollify one faction will cause the other to go absolutely fucking ballistic with very little middle ground possible.”

    Exactly, this. That’s the problem.

    I can bet who will win, and all I have to say is “follow the money”.

    Obama is playing this perfectly, in his annoyingly Obama-like way, by NOT playing it at all.

    He’s, as usual, trying to do the pragmatic, practical, bipartisan, non-ideological thing…which in this case just happens to be what the banksters want too, and what is giving Boner a serious deflationary ball-squeeze. Obama frustrates my ideological ass a lot, but for sure I am enjoying watching him at work.

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