This is just sad:
Something I should say is that this whole “floors not ceilings” thing with regard to campaign finance reform shouldn’t be taken as just something to say in response to calls for contribution limits. Even relatively modest public financing would, if applied systematically, really transform the American political system. Consider, for example, this story about how only fifteen percent of Virginia House of Delegates seats are being contested.
Where is the activist base, you know, the real base, the ones who make everything happen and the rest of you should just stfu and follow their lead. Well, they’ve been busy with other important shit:
A group of around ten women in Muslim headscarves crashed the RightOnline conference for about ten minutes Saturday, protesting what they said was an incident targeting Muslim women Thursday night.
A spokesperson for the group of women told TPM they weren’t sure of the identity of the man responsible for the Thursday incident — when two hijab-wearing women were followed by a man with a cell phone camera who reportedly asked them why they were dressed the way they were “in America” — but rumors that the incident involved an employee of conservative blogger Andrew Breitbart were rampant at Netroots.
It was partially a confrontation over those rumors that caused the Breitbart kerfuffle at Netroots Friday.
The women who arrived at RightOnline were Netroots attendees, and were accompanied by blogger John Aravosis and gay rights advocate/provocateur Dan Choi.
And what else has the “real base,” the ones who get Democrats elected, been up to:
Republican presidential candidate and former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty was glitter-bombed by two female activists during a stop in San Francisco on Thursday.
The bombardment came less than a month after a gay activist showered Pawlenty’s GOP rival Newt Gingrich with glittery confetti.
Pawlenty was signing copies of his new memoir “Courage to Stand” when Nancy Mancias and Chelsea Byers, representatives of anti-war group CODEPINK, began dumping the pink sprinkles over his head.
We need better activists. We need more people like Kay- folks who go to local meetings, organize, and get out the vote. We don’t need any more grandstanding jackasses trampling innocents in attempts to get in front of a camera to promote themselves while telling the rest of us to go to hell. Basically, what we need is you and me to get off our asses and do what we did in 2008- volunteer, go door to door, man phone banks, donate money, and all the hard work that actually brings about change.
I challenge each and every one of you to call a local or national democratic organization in the next few days and offer to volunteer your time. Sit down and think of a realistic amount of time you can offer every week until November 2012, and then beyond. I will do the same.
freelancer
Fuck that. Free Mumia!
david mizner
And that will change things? Ha.
You can argue that it’s important, or at least worthwhile, to elect Democrats over Republicans, but please don’t pretend that the election of Democrats will usher in meaningful progress. Recent history shows that it won’t.
FFrank
Thanks John, Footwork on the ground, on the phones is essential.
shortstop
Don’t change the subject to bread when they’re having their circuses.
Do we ever. If only we could clone her.
I never got on mine, although I could be a little more energetic about it while I’m up. Thanks for the reminder.
TR
Amen.
We need fewer giant papier mache puppets at protest marches, and more people registering voters.
shortstop
You always seem like a parody, but without the funny to make it worthwhile.
Trinity
I couldn’t agree more John. Thank you for another reminder.
Loneoak
On the other hand, throwing shit at Michele Bachmann is fun.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
david mizner: Please present an effective alternative course of action.
david mizner
shortstop, you forget to put the rebuttal in your rebuttal.
Normally that would include all the awesome things that have allegedly transpired over the last four years and overlook the depth of misery in the country.
Citizen_X
@ david mizner: Fine, then organize a union shop, or something. A boycott, show-of-force at a town meeting, a Green party candidate for local office, anything. Guerilla theater ain’t cutting it, and never did.
I swear I’m not into hippie punching, but if I could make guerilla theater a capitol offense, I would. I’m looking at you, Code Pink.
dollared
Damn straight, John. I’m a phone banker. Helps me prepare for my 70s, when I’ll be signing my Time-Life paychecks directly over to Wellpoint to pay for my Medicare Voucher Gap.
But don’t kid yourself. We also need checks. literally millions of checks. And that money needs to go to glitter-bombers in suits, who coordinate outrage, arrange pointless votes and organize onscreeen temper tantrums, to illustrate that it’s an outrage that Rich People Have Taken all the Money and They Refuse to Pay their Taxes.
someguy
Fuck that.
I’m going to whine about shit on the internet instead. It’s what the cool kids are doing.
Oh yeah, and throw glitter at people I hate.
August J. Pollak
In 2008, we had jobs.
Whoops!
slag
I like your style, JC. In all honesty, though, I was thinking about this over the weekend when I encountered a few (apparently laissez-faire) voter registration folks hanging out in the wild, and I was wondering why I wasn’t yet one of them. I’m not feelin’ it, for reasons I can’t completely articulate. I think part of the problem is how hard it is to maintain the momentum after the election.
Every race I’ve canvassed for–from Mayoral to Presidential–has exhibited the same lack of follow-through: What to do after the election? I think this may mean that election work isn’t for me, and that I’m better off volunteering on a longer term basis for independent organizations that exhibit more serious interest in continuity and conviction. I think those places are where you’re likely to be less victimized by grandstanding jackassery.
Kane
For many, the thought of volunteering, manning phone banks, and doing all the hard work that brings about change is better than actually volunteering, manning phone banks, and doing all the hard work that brings about change.
Nellcote
That glitter bomb thing is not going to end well. Baggers will end up throwing cat shit at people, if not worse.
taylormattd
John, you need to ignore the screamers. They seriously, seriously, are not the base. To them, yelling at democratic politicians, especially online, is “activism”.
And yes, the true base is out there actually organizing and engaging in constructive infrastructure building. It just will never be reported by the em-ess-em, and it will be denigrated by the alleged “progressives” on the left blogs as nothing but Obamabot, OFA bullshit.
Cacti
Get with the times, man.
Free Bradley Manning!
Maude
Is this Troll Day here at BJ?
taylormattd
@david mizner
If only St. John Edwards had been elected, that would have changed things. Power to the people. Two Americas. Now THAT’S meaningful
sloganeeringprogress.slag
Shit. Moderated. And yet no soc.ialism in sight. For fuck’s sake, I can never seem to manage to color within the lines.
david mizner
@Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
Well, I submit that the least bad answer is the Wisconsin-Egypt model, radical protest politics, including civil disobedience. If that sounds far-fetched and long-term, well I’d argue it’s less far-fetched and long-term than trying to force the Democratic party out of the clutches of Wall Street through conventional means. A couple related posts.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/22/970038/-True-Confessions:-Markos-Bugs-MeOn-Protest-Politics-%28updated%29?via=user
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/12/02/924845/-Its-Time-to-Get-Radical,-Obviously
eemom
OnT of campaign finance, another gang of rats has jumped the Newtanic.
Tee hee. DIE, motherfucker.
Cain
I’m already in.. put myself to volunteer. Not sure how much.. I kind of hate going door to door.. so damn tiring.
shortstop
This makes me hope a CP protest against MB gets scheduled double-quick. We could play “Find the craziest pair of darting eyes in the room.” Bachmann doesn’t usually have such stiff competition for that one.
d. john
I appreciate the sentiment. However, my wife and I are more concerned with activism surrounding migrant worker rights, farm worker rights, and helping our local community to not be assholes when it comes to how we treat the people who are shorter and browner than myself.
I keep my actual activism pretty damned local, where it can do more good, IMO.
Besides, I’m more concerned about how we abuse people that pick our berries, milk our cows, and hang our drywall. The white people of our country don’t really need my help.
So yeah – I have better things to do. I vote though!
http://tierra-nueva.org
these guys are doing more important work than
http://www.dccc.org/
And the predominantly middle and upper middle class white folks don’t really need any help from a queer, flaming liberal DFH such as myself.
They’ve made that pretty clear over the past 30 years.
Sorry.
shortstop
I can’t say cr.a.zy without the filter getting me? Seriously?
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
david mizner: Please present an effective alternative course of action.
david mizner
@Citizen_X
I dunno — was it “theater” when GetEqual activists interrupted the President? Was it “theater” when Dan Choi got arrested outside the White House? Because it seems to me that more radical gay rights protesters had an impact on the political debate (more impact than activists on other issues), and in any case, inspired many like-minded activists. I’ve been seeing a lot of anti-Choi posts (Deaniac at the People View said Choi has “gone crazy”)
Taking over the Democratic party from the inside is a noble, worthwhile undertaking, but why shit on people who opt for tactics that are more aggressive, especially when history tell us more aggressive tactics are needed.
karen marie
@August J. Pollak:
Then we have plenty of time to volunteer, don’t we?
ChrisNYC
People can also just sign up at OFA. Even if you’re pissed at the President, OFA (NY, at least) collects vols for non-Obama, and non-electoral stuff, e.g. marriage quality calling in NYS, union rallies, etc. You’ll get emails — constantly — announcing what’s going on in the week ahead.
Linnaeus
Been doing that through my union for the better part of 7 years now. Few organizations put feet on the pavement, ears to phones, and fingers to keyboards like we do. For years.
david mizner
@taylormattd
Obviously it wouldn’t have. Edwards would have been every bit as bad as Obama on foreign policy, and although he may well have put up a fight against Wall Street, Wall Street would have mostly won — which is the point.
Catsy
@david mizner:
For those who don’t know: Mizner is a longtime purity troll at DKos whose eye-rolling comment history is rife with a near-total inability to give Obama–or any insufficiently progressive Democrat–credit for anything.
The comment I quoted above pretty much sums up his shtick, though. Will the election of Democrats magically usher in every meaningful change on David Mizner’s Christmas list? No. Will it help make some progressive improvements a reality, and help prevent the malignant damage that Republicans will do in office? Emphatically, demonstrably, yes.
If your ideological purity is such that you’re incapable of seeing the many ways in which this has already been true in the last four (or forty) years, you’re too stupid to be an effective activist for your cause and should probably stick to something more suited to your skill set, like trolling movie fan forums and bitching that the director didn’t do everything the way you would’ve.
jnfr
Thank you John. Will do.
Cacti
Punch away.
Code Pink is a worthless, performance art troupe.
Pococurante
Great, and I just bought a case of glitter…
Catsy
@taylormattd:
Funny you should mention that.
Roger Moore
@Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory:
I think the alternative plan is to pout and throw rocks from the sidelines. It may not accomplish anything positive, but it will make the rock throwers feel purer than the people they’re throwing rocks at. I’m sure that will be a great consolation to them when the Republicans appoint Supreme Court Justices who are dedicated to overturning Lawrence v. Texas, Roe v. Wade, Griswold v. Connecticut, and Loving v. Virginia.
Van
John – love your blog, am from WV (Parkersburg) originally and stumbled upon ballon juice recently. I am making the change from independent to Democrat on my registration today and will get active in my local precinct. They sure do need the help here! Keep up the excellent blogging, it is a lot of fun to read everyday.
dollared
Don’t love Code Pink. Now, tell me which Democratic Congressional or Senatorial leader who has gotten media attention for their relentless, commonsensical, fiscally responsible opposition to the war.
Tactics are not mutually exclusive. We need a movement, not a tasteful collection of logical arguments. We all know that if there had been Question Hour at the US Senate, the Bush Tax cuts would never have passed. But we don’t. So the argument has to be conducted anyhow, and anywhere. And we need even the glitter bombers.
Zifnab
Actually, yes. It will change things. I campaigned for a local city councilman. It was me, him, his wife, and his two sons. We canvased the neighborhood three times before the vote, and picked up 45% in a three-way race. We canvased half the neighborhood again in the run-off and he won.
I’m convinced that if he hadn’t been so aggressive in campaigning, he could have lost. Now take a look at guys like Senator Al Franken, who won by triple digits in Minnesota. Or look at Obama’s win in North Carolina, by less than 1% of the vote. You think campaigning doesn’t swing elections. Like hell it doesn’t. Campaigning decides elections. It is at the foundation of the 50%+1 strategy championed by Karl Rove and the 50 State Strategy championed by Howard Dean.
People want options. People want their elected officials to talk to them. People want the convenience of the candidate coming to you, not having to chase down him.
That means filing to run in local races. That means block walking. That means hard work and hard-won votes. And the result can change a lot. It can change the course of the nation.
Kevin
What do I do if the Democrat in question is Max Baucus?
Really, even the AFL-CIO has abandoned the “any Democrat” strategy. If you really want to see change, you’ve got to find and support better candidates, or start a third or fourth party. When the Progressives in Minnesota couldn’t get a progressive agenda passed during the Great Depression, they joined with farmers and labor to form the Democratic-Farmer-Labor party. The DFL exists to this day as a separate entity from the DNC.
What has it gotten them? Hubert Humphrey, Fritz Mondale, Paul Wellstone, and Al Franken. Wouldn’t you rather have Senators cut from that cloth? Or DLC’ers like Baucus and Mary Landrieu?
In sum, get rid of the DLC or find another party.
trollhattan
With a WTOish event in town a few years ago we were having various protests/actions/thingies all over. I happened to go into an office supply store where two folks in foam tree costumes were standing atop a mountian of paper cases proclaiming it was made from badly harvested timber. Or something. I never quite figured out what they had to say because THEY WERE DRESSED IN FOAM TREE SUITS.
To folks who mistake zesty street theater as the pathway to influencing public opinion and redirecting the political currents, I can only suggest taking a look at how it’s done successfully, and take a chapter from their book.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_9Ysv09ziUBw/S_lRFn8RNoI/AAAAAAAADzc/LaWMyIUrK1Q/s1600/civil+rights
Don’t allow yourselves to be dismissed as irrelevant; save the costumes for Burning Man.
smileycreek
A St. Paul blogger faces misdemeanor charges after he allegedly harassed two Muslim women last week in downtown Minneapolis.
Minneapolis police say John Hugh Gilmore, 52, who writes a blog called Minnesota Conservatives, caused a scene Thursday night on Nicollet Mall. Sgt. Bill Palmer, a police spokesman, said Gilmore appeared to be drunk when he confronted the two women wearing the Muslim headscarf known as the hijab.
“Mr. Gilmore made some comments that he didn’t believe the women should be in the United States, and that he thought that they were ruining America,” Palmer said.
Roger Moore
@david mizner:
Electing Democrats may not lead to meaningful progress. Electing Republicans will certainly lead to meaningful regress. Make your choice well.
david mizner
Catsy, thanks for linking to my Dkos page. I’d put up my body of work there against anyone’s, although that’s not saying a whole lot. All of my work, including my old post pimping Edwards (the most progressive viable candidate)are policy and principle-based. That’s just the way I roll.
You’ll also find many comments and posts praising Obama and Democrats, most recently this heavily recommended diary praising Obama for saying he’d veto the NDAA.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/05/24/979013/-Wow!-President-Obama-Threatens-Veto-of-NDAA-%28The-War-Without-Limits-Bill%29updated?via=user
Elizabelle
Oh, and write letters to the editor of your local fishwrap.
Give them something to print other than Tea Party screeds and missives from the Fox News misinformed demographic.
Mnemosyne
I wouldn’t be so sure that independent organizations will necessarily be free of grandstanding jackassery. Seen any PETA ads lately?
(Not trying to discourage you from going the non-political-party route, just a reminder that any organization that interests you should probably be reviewed for jackassery before you dedicate your time to them.)
geg6
Personally, I have always been active. I have always volunteered. I have always canvassed and phone banked. I have always participated in GOTV. Every single year since I could first vote, back in 1976.
Funnily enough, I am also not a Firebagger. Don’t if that’s just correlation or causation, but I can tell that it is definitely why I’m more of a pragmatic old lefty than our more self-righteous fellow travelers. When you are out there, interacting with real people in their real lives, you get an idea of why changes are usually going to have to be incremental if you’re going to get change at all.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
david mizner: So, you have no effective alternative courses of action. Thank you for your honest answer.
david mizner
@Roger Moore. I agree. And more simply, I see no reason not to vote for the one major party that doesn’t openly embrace racists, sexists, and homophobes. As long as we don’t delude ourselves into thinking that’s nearly enough.
cleek
this would be a good place for Beese’s “protest people” line.
d. john
@Catsy,
pretty much nailed it. sorry u don’t see that.
According to Bill, the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results.
(those of you that know Bill, know – those of you that don’t – just smile and nod)
I’ll spend my time and money helping people that actually want my help.
I’ll still vote D because I don’t like the alternative. That’s the extent of my support.
I didn’t abandon the democratic party. they abandoned me.
So they get my grudging support – not my activism. They made it very clear that they are not interested in anything coming from me, other than money and votes. I reserve my activism for those causes that both need my help and want it. kthx
Mnemosyne
Yeah, that’s been working out well in Wisconsin. But I’m sure that if they just vote in more Republicans, it’ll totally work next time! Who cares if a few union workers have to suffer before your utopia arrives, amirite?
Tuttle
Basically, what we need is you and me to get off our asses and do what we did in 2008…
Find an effective party that actually courts the Left?
geg6
david mizner @30:
Yes. SATSQ.
The entire problem was never the president as far as DADT went. So, yes, it’s political theater that has no effect whatsoever since their target was never part of the problem. This is why we can’t have nice things. Stupid people doing stupid, pointless shit going around looking even more stupid than they actually are.
david mizner
@54.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. I’m not arguing for voting against Democrats. As for union workers, I’m one of them (CWA) and I work for a moderate, slowly-change-the-system organization. But when time allows, I’m active in the anti-bank movement, which imo shows the most promise in terms of changing things.
Lost Left Coaster
Dude, John Cole, I really don’t understand what the second two items have to do with the first. I really don’t understand why encouraging people to phone bank and canvass has anything to do with saying that, apparently, it is inappropriate for Muslim women to stand up for themselves when they’re harassed by someone from Andrew Breitbart’s conference. I mean, if you don’t like that, so what? They didn’t hurt anything. Neither did the women who dumped glitter on Pawlenty’s head. You don’t like that? SO WHAT? Do you think that those women were going to phone bank for Democrats anyway? Do you think that they owe volunteer hours to the Democratic party or something? There are millions of people out there who DID NOT dump glitter on Pawlenty’s head yesterday. Maybe you could reach out to them without suddenly making the glitter dumpers some kind of example of what is wrong with the world? I mean, who gives a flying frack if Pawlenty gets glitter in his luscious hair? Do you think that hurts us somehow?
This is the kind of “get off my lawn” post that both amuses and infuriates me. Keeps me coming back to Balloon Juice, though. I guess this is what we know and love about this place — Grandpa John Cole does not approve of these whippersnappers and their flash mobs and glitter!
piratedan
really Davy, what change have you personally ushered in? What public offices have you held, what policies have you enacted, what have you done, as the uber-individual, to make my life a better one?
I worked on the Giffords campaign, I will, when I return home, go back to working in my legislative district to try and do what I can, in my small way, to help elect Democrats, who have shown, despite their many and numerous faults, to effectively be better than the knuckle draggers that the Republican party is consistently running for election.
cleek
yes! a third party!
nothing could go wrong.
slag
And yet, people like you keep saying the same thing over and over again. What results are you expecting?
andrewsomething
When was the last time any of you actually saw a protest march with giant paper mache puppets? From the sounds of the BJ comment section, it sometimes seems like marching hoards of hippies are rampaging all over the country. And the only thing holding back Code Pink from taking power are the brave commenters here.
Seriously, just like we need more folks involved in organizing locally, it wouldn’t hurt to just f-ing ignore people like the glitter bombers. Why do you care? I know that they aren’t really getting anything done, but I though it was kind of funny. About the only thing more useless than wasting your time getting worked up by these clowns is me replying to you in the comments section of a blog.
I think many of the commenters here must still be really pissed off about that time in college when some animal rights protester yelled at them for wearing a leather jacket or something.
PS: All your “real base” are belong to us…
d. john
@Mnemosyne, @48
@slag is correct.
I posted on this already. volunteering for local community based orgs and causes are the surest way to affect actual “change we can believe in”
PETA was a piss poor example dude. PETA is national enterprise… fuck them with a sharp stick.
Bottom line, slag is correct, and while your PETA example may have not been a purposeful dodge – it really does deflect from the point.
Kane
How many people here were involved in the 2008 presidential campaign on a local or national level? For many of us, that was probably the campaign of our lifetime. If you didn’t get involved then, you’re probably never going to feel motivated to get involved ever.
But if you did get involved in 2008, then it makes even more sense that you get involved now. You have experience and knowledge to share, you know the door to door routes in your neighborhood, you understand how to work the phones, you know what it takes to get people registered to vote, etc.
Also, it makes no sense to abandon what you have helped to build. There’s too much at stake to just sit this one out. Instead, now is the time to commit yourself to redoubling your efforts. Lets not just win, but work to win by a landslide. Lets regain the house and increase our majority in the senate. Lets create our mandate.
d. john
@andrewsomething,
spot on – we lovingly refer to that mindset as hippie-punching. =)
Nellcote
http://tbogg.firedoglake.com/2011/06/19/st-ebbas-preview-or-we-are-all-ellen-jamesians-now/
cleek
last October, next to the Stewart/Colbert rally.
there was a drum circle, too. very persuasive drumming. changed a lot of minds.
dollared
But fundamentally, many of us to the left of B J simply think Obama is stupid.
A Democratic president, leaving space for the REPUBLICANS to appeal to the WORKING CLASS about JOBs, is s-t-u-p-i-d.
For that discussion to move on to the Republicans being more willing to rein in the military for the good of the country, is incredibly stupid.
It’s the economy, stupid. I will vote for him, I will work for him, but I hate that Obama doesn’t see the need to help his natural constituents. It’s not only bad politics, it’s immoral.
Mnemosyne
When I was looking for an animal rescue organization to make a donation to for my mom for Christmas, I investigated at least four before I sent them my money. Was I supposed to just Google “Phoenix animal rescue” and send my donation to the first one that popped up in the search box?
But thank you for deciding that I was purposefully trying to discourage slag from going the non-party route rather than encouraging him/her to choose wisely.
geg6
cleek @67
I know that I always find drum circles very persuasive. It’s probably because I dated a drummer in the high school band in the 10th grade. He looked like Adam Levine, even though Adam was probably about 8 years old at the time.
Raenelle
I’ve been waiting for a question like that, just so I could use one of my favorite quotes:
“Senator? You can have my answer now, if you like. My final offer is this: nothing. Not even the fee for the gaming license, which I would appreciate if you would put up personally.”
d. john
@slag,
“According to Bill, the definition of insanity is repeating the same thing over and over expecting different results.”
dude you are all over the place. I don’t get you…
Read YOUR post
Now read MY post again
You’ll find we agree – at least in general, on this point, which was essentially what I was getting at.
rdldot
I’m glad to hear that there are voter registration drives going on already. I had decided that since the voter law changes in many states are going to be disenfranchising a lot of voters, and since we’re going to have to play by those rules at least for now, that was where I was going to put my energy. The rest of the stuff makes no difference if our people can’t vote. That was the whole point to changing the voter ID laws. I would be curious to know if any plans were made at Netroots Nation to get started on this.
cleek
@idiot: not Beese, the Protest People thing is joe-from-Lowell’s.
not sure why i mixed those two up.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
d.john: Fixed. Worst organization ever. You should see their national headquarters on the waterfront in Norfolk, must’ve cost them well north of $20 million.
They euthanize animals there. The irony is overwhelming.
cleek
and now i can’t make a link properly.
time for a nap
Sly
I know how we can stop the war! We’re gonna knit the world’s smallest pair of hemp pants. And put ’em on a mouse. And hide the mouse in a cupboard. But which cupboard is it in, man! People will be so busy thinking about that, they won’t have time to go to war!
slag
Yes. That’s why I chose the word “likely” instead of “necessarily”.
And yes, I do regularly dedicate my time to organizations. My point was a comparative one based on my experience. Although I can’t say for sure that the lack of follow-through can entirely explain my ambivalence toward election volunteerism. It’s just one important distinction.
That said, I may still end up out there GOTVing whether I like it or not, since I seem to harbor extreme prejudice against Republicans, in general.
d. john
@Mnemosyne
if you wouldn’t have brought up PETA your argument would have been stronger and more clear.
Just sayin’
(the hippy punching detracted from the otherwise measured response in your 2nd paragraph)
slag
No. We don’t. I would never say this:
This is an example of the type of grandstanding jackassery I prefer to avoid. Whine whine whine. This is not an example of wanting continuity and follow-through. This is an example of wanting cookies and milk. There is a difference. And not a subtle one.
beergoggles
You know I do the whole respectable involvement thing with money and time, but just a part of me is jealous that those folks get to glitter bomb the assholes.
d. john
@75,
that’s why I get pissed when people continuously insist on bringing PETA and CodePink into discussions about activism.
These organizations are at best unserious and at worst disengenuous.
The establishment liberals love these organizations more than the hippies they are punching do – because they provide an convenient and facile excuse to punch a hippy.
Tim, Interrupted
BJ is your blog, Cole, and you can obviously position it as you please.
But I sure do wish, with your voice and perspective and past, you would work to position BJ as a non-affiliated blog, free to call bullshit and hail excellence, no matter where it originates.
By going all pro-Dem establishment you limit your options and credibility, and you skew your viewpoint. There’s no way it could be otherwise.
chopper
@David Mizner:
what, you demand people demonstrate the good shit that happened in the last 1.5 years of W? get the fuck outta here. at least if you’re going to be a moron, bring your A game.
d. john
@slag, @80
I’m sorry you consider my post to be grandstanding.
I’ll go volunteer now for the DCCC. I’ll keep my mouth shut, and do voter drives for people like Diane Fienstien and Rahm Emanuel
What was I thinking. I should be canvasing for an establishment that doesn’t reflect my values, or just shut the hell up.
I’m just a whiner because I will only spend my time and money being an activist for causes that actually reflect my values.
That’s a fucking stupid position and I should know better.
I see.
Jay B.
How many people here were involved in the 2008 presidential campaign on a local or national level?
Many, myself included. But I don’t get to call myself part of the base because I disagree with a lot that Obama has done since. Also, the Democrats, as a party, are a joke (and I’ve been a Democrat my entire voting life), they blew health care reform, banking reform and civil liberties while continuing the wars they idiotically supported.
But if you did get involved in 2008, then it makes even more sense that you get involved now.
Has a single Democrat, outside of the Progressive Caucus, made a moral argument against this anti-deficit mania? Is there any sense that a Democrat will be running to the left of the President on spending (the Progressive Caucus excluded, because who gives a shit about them?) The vast majority of them clearly don’t give a shit that there’s 9 percent unemployment. They had their chance — as clear and boldly outlined as possible — they blew it. The GOP is worse by a far sight. But less bad is exactly how the Democrat message was pitched in 2010 and 2012 will be exactly the same. I’ll vote right across the board, I promise. Less bad is better than criminally awful.
But whatever tact you want to take — that Obama was handcuffed by an overwhelming Democratic Majority, that the Democratic majority was controlled by Blue Dogs and Republicans, that the media is in the bag, that Obama is essentially powerless to affect Congress, that 50,000 “contractors” in Iraq means the war is over, that 9 percent unemployment is good enough to merit re-election, that the Supreme Court choice is really the most important thing…it’s quickly apparent that these are defensive arguments. 2008 was sold on hope and change. Hope is long gone. Change is glacial. How are the Democrats going to engage the electorate? What is Obama going to do to capture the same enthusiasm? Screaming about the awfulness of the GOP is probably going to be a winner for the President, but it hardly moves the needle about doing the things that we’ve long needed to do — the things it doesn’t seem there’s a single politician is willing to embrace.
d. john
@Jay B.
You nailed it.
Sly
@d. john
You should have stopped there, because that’s all you’re interested in: being an activist. And an activist is likely all you’ll ever be.
Which is fine, I suppose, if your motivation is pure self-indulgence. Is it? If so, keep on preaching, brother! Power to the people! What do we want? The catharsis of willful disempowerment! When do we want it? Now!
If not, you might consider the possibility that there are more effective ways of making use of your time. Like running for the school board.
Jay B.
d. john — back atcha. I’m a local volunteer at heart too. Haven’t been able to do it enough lately.
I’d vote and campaign for this guy, and I don’t have a clue of his actual politics beyond his affinity for the obvious need for infrastructure stimulus. Start there.
DonkeyKong
(slowly building clapping across the commie intertoobs…..)
Meh, what Jay B said. The time for Obama as a visionary leader is over.
He’s a grand piano in front of the farm house door to keep out the infected while the rest of us come up with plan B.
chopper
certainly, i wish this country were a multi-party parliamentary system where there were actual left-wing parties with seats in congress. not just because it’s more representative, but also because it would make the professional left shit or get of the fuckin pot for once.
it’s easy to sit in mom’s basement pissing about the democrats and being all ‘i might pull the lever for you guys but that’s the extent of my support, you guys suck’, but i have a queer feeling that even if the great mythical leftist candidate showed up on y’alls doorstep you’d come up with some reason to take a shit on him over something. for some people it’s just easier to define yourself as against everything instead of for anything. the political version of a 15-year-old annoying goth kid.
shortstop
I hear you. But those urges can be — well, if not sublimated, then redirected. For instance, I’m currently gaslighting our insane (and not in a “fun crazy guy” kind of way) association president.
d. john
@91 thanks for the link.
I’d like to add, that my state doesn’t need help electing decent and more or less honest progressive politicians.
I am well represented by the likes of Maria Cantwell, Patty Murray, et al. In fact, WA has a better crop of progressive D’s in office than many places I think. They are not perfect, but who is? At least I get the impression of integrity from them – which is more than I can say for Obama (flame bait)… too many broken promises. As you said, whatever the reason.
I guess I’m lucky that way. My state is in no danger of going blue dog, or red.
I won’t canvas for democrats – but I will vote for them.
I guess that probably makes me a firebagger according to half the blog here (despite the fact that I don’t visit FDL outside of TBogg)
shortstop
Or make increasingly fatuous and banal posts at regular two-minute intervals from now until 5:00 in the morning Eastern.
I wonder which it will be.
chopper
@Sly:
heh. the victimhood complex is as big on the left as it is on the right. on the right it’s all ‘obama and the democrats are victimizing us!’. on the left, it’s all ‘obama and the democrats are victimizing us!’.
d. john
@chopper, your feeling is unfounded.
I’d canvas for Russ Fiengold, or Bernie Sanders maybe.
I don’t live in either of those states.
And Russ is a DINO (in a good way)
And Bernie is a socialist, not a democrat..
I suppose that makes me a lazy, basement dwelling traitor.
So be it.
d. john
god, why is soshulist a dirty word here at B J?
Jesse Ewiak
@95 Rob McKenna says hi. Unless you think he’ll be the same as Jay Inslee.
shortstop
bing fucking o. Being continually out of power, forever and ever, world without end isn’t a a side effect of this emotionally stunted attitude; it’s actually these folks’ desired end. On the rare occasions when they find themselves in agreement with a majority, they immediately assume that if most other people want it, it can’t possibly be a noble or worthwhile objective, and they move their goalposts accordingly. They live to believe they’re noble iconoclasts; that’s their sole guiding “principle.”
d. john
@shortstop,
If you want to hold the fact that I have the luxury of time, money, and a work from home job against me so be it.
When I’m not here, you’ll find me in the migrant camps or at the boys & girls club. You know, actually helping people who need it, and not establishment assholes who are happy to take my vote and then piss on my head and claim it’s raining.
good thing there are people like you here, who do not make silly banal comments. certainly. because I’m just some idiot cretin. Since you are the supreme arbitrator of seriousness, I can see why you support the establishment left. I hope one day to aspire to your level of seriousness and reasonableness. Like you and David Brooks.
chopper
@shortstop:
it’s like finding out your mom likes your favorite band.
cleek
because it contains within it the name of a boner drug ?
Elliecat
I don’t get at all how this is somehow opposed to the idea of activism versus theatre.
This is why we have the theatrical crap, because so many people think that political action is all about campaigning or making statements.
Activism in your community, on behalf of people in your community, is political. I believe this is really the only way we will effect change—not by all of us getting on board with campaigns—though that stuff is needed—but by every last one of us getting involved in our communities, involved in local politics, local causes, with local people, making connections, influencing through our action, our experience, our support, our concern, etc.
Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)
FWIW, MoveOn is holding a series of meetings in July, specifically to attract outside input and opinions, designed to rally the progressive base in preparation for the 2012 cycle.
In other words, if you are pissed at the feckless Ds and enraged by the R’s this is your chance to get off your ass and become part of something.
Don’t like MoveOn?
Fine, there is OFA, PDA, your local Dem Central Cmmte, and a whole lot more you can join.
Just don’t sit here and snivel.
ETA- join anything, except the Judean People’s Front. Fuckin splitters.
AxelFoley
@ david mizner:
Did any of that bullshit get results?
Mnemosyne
The biggest mistake the left ever made was abandoning electoral politics and letting the right wing stack school boards and city councils from coast to coast. Those are the places that politicians pay their dues, and now we have a whole flock of Michele Bachmanns and Paul Ryans that came up through that farm system who are trying to wreck the whole country. Teabaggers are becoming precinct captains in their local districts because local political activists like that help decide who the candidates are going to be instead of just pulling a lever for them on Election Day.
And what’s the left’s answer? Let’s abandon electoral politics even more! It’ll totally work this time! Aargh.
cleek
prove it: with citations, quotes and poll numbers.
d. john
@106, thanks for the link,
I’ll check it out.
There’s something I might be able to sink my teeth into.
Cheers.
eemom
@dijon mustard
Tell us again what a great guy you are. Some folks may have missed it the first 8000 times.
d. john
@111
fuck you eemom, my response was a direct retort to the fucker that implied I was a lazy sniveling whiner who doesn’t do anything to help a cause.
FlipYrWhig
There are not enough people in the USA significantly to the left of the Democratic party for any of these fantasies about Real Change That Is Good Enough to ever come to pass. Thus, the way to inject leftish political positions into the national political discourse will, for the foreseeable future, be by way of the Democratic party. That’s where things stand. It’s not difficult. Until and unless you/we find a way to raise the proportion of lefties to around 40% of the electorate, this is where we’re going to be stuck.
IMHO, it’s not like choosing to be a vegan, where your individual conscience is what’s at stake. It’d be like one political party being intent on ending meat-safety inspections, but still refusing to support the other because they aren’t trying hard enough to convert everyone else to veganism. All that’s going to accomplish is giving all the non-vegans less safe food.
Joel
@ cleek
couldn’t a “\scialis” regular expression solve the issue?
boss bitch
And in the same breath they will tell that the Obama administration and Dems are stupid, limp wristed, and spineless. These are the people that are keeping them down.
d. john
@106,
your link just sent to moveon’s home page.
their search is kind of lame,
so I fixed – for anyone else interested.
http://www.moveon.org/team/organize/meetings.html
boss bitch
YES!
Being loud doesn’t make you more effective.
AxelFoley
@ chopper:
LOL Sadly, this.
justawriter
That was written by some jerk who thought big marches and getting locked up in jail would change things.
(my point being that all the stuff John talked about is vitally important but is not nearly enough on its own)
shortstop
Did anyone else hear this in the voice of Dustin Hoffman as Tootsie? Chin up, hand on chest, quivering with would-be dignified outrage?
d. john
@105 Elliecat,
You basically got at the meat of at least part of the point I was making with that.
But also I was responding to JC’s assertion that we must canvass, etc…
I won’t do it, because the folks he’s asking me to support simply do not represent me. It really is as simple as that, as much as some people here hate me for it.
Lydgate
@Jay B.
I concur with d. john.
LikeableInMyOwnWay
Great post. If BJ stays on this constructive track of shoe-leather activism, I will promise to pretty much refrain from posting to the blog for another year as my little way of saying “thanks.”
d. john
@123,
solidarity.
I’ll make the same pledge.
That should relieve some people here. Maybe even motivate.
If you can’t do it out of love, than do it out of hate. hate of me. hate of my rants, and all that. please.
Support your local homeless!
Cheers,
@122,
I think he and I are pretty much in agreement. just sayin.
slag
See. This just proves you still don’t get it. My point about Democratic electoral politics is that, for a lackey like me, it centers around boom and bust cycles. It’s a structural issue. Their only means of keeping people who don’t know anything (aka me) involved post-election is in sporadically asking me for money. And that style of involvement is less interesting to me. That’s it. No one is out there trying to punch me in the face. No one left me. I’m not feeling personally hurt by anyone or anything. It’s just not a good fit for my personality type and skillset.
And if anything, it’s my fault that that’s the case–not the Democratic Party’s fault. I’m the one who isn’t out there on a limb asserting myself and putting together house parties and all that stuff. I hate that shit and don’t see the grand plan behind it well enough to spend time doing shit I hate. A single voter registration I can see. I can count it. But a lot of energy and determination goes into getting it, and energy and determination are not things I can just turn off and turn on. That’s MY issue. No one else’s.
And at some point, if the powers that be decide that they would be better off providing more consistent structural support for idiots like me who still want to help but don’t want to make a day job out of involvement with them, then they will. But that’s strictly a cost-benefit decision. They’re not abandoning me if they don’t do it. Just like I’m not abandoning them if I don’t GOTV. This is not a personal relationship we’re talking about.
chopper
@d. john:
hold on, let me put down this frail african child i’ve been nursing all day (despite being a man, i still made it happen). what were you saying again? i can’t hear you over my own self-satisfaction.
Mnemosyne
So if those folks don’t represent you, why don’t you get out there and represent yourself?
It’s all well and good to personally help the homeless, but if your local and state governments keep cutting funding because there are no politicians to oppose it, then you’re spitting into the ocean.
It’s great that you’re helping kids at the Boys & Girls Club, but that’s not doing a thing to improve their curriculum at school, or to get them newer textbooks or better teachers. Those are things that happen through the political process, not through private volunteerism.
You may tell yourself that you can help migrant workers and homeless people and underprivileged students without having to dirty your hands with those nasty “politics,” but the help you can give them will always be limited by what your local, state, and federal politicians decide to fund.
If you’re fine with that, great, but don’t pretend that you’re somehow operating outside of politics or that politics don’t affect what you’re doing and make your job harder every single day.
boss bitch
time for some people to read Rules for Radicals ’cause what ya doin’ so far ain’t workin’.
chopper
@justawriter:
i saw a PBS special about the papier mache puppets king made back in the 60’s and they were outta sight.
Linda Featheringill
Nice post, John. Very constructive. And yes, I will take it to heart.
d. john
Yep, and the cost is, they don’t get my active support.
They still get my vote.
So what?
You say I don’t “get it”
I say, how is the time I spend being active in my own community for people that actively seek and want the help, time better served by supporting people whose views seem contemptuous of my values?
Seriously.
I mean I get the thrust of your argument I think, which seems to be that if you don’t like the D’s – then call and rally for change.
And maybe you’d argue, that I should be volunteering for THEM too, Maybe. But I need my downtime, and they haven’t exactly done anything to make me believe in many of the things they are doing. I’d rather devote time I spend putting in work for a cause on those causes I can identify with. I’d rather not spend the time attempting to change the failed direction of a party that is more corporatist than liberal at this point. As far as I am concerned, that’s what they boil down to.
They lost my support. There are not very many Jimmy Carters, or Russ Fiengolds left in the Dem power structure.
Maybe that’s my fault.
But I don’t think so.
But Maybe it’s my fault for not mustering the necessary drive to canvas for a party that sells me out whenever they feel they can get away with it. I don’t really care for the third-way bullshit…
I’ll still vote for them, because we don’t have a viable 3rd option.
If you want to try to lead a powerful establishment party down the path to a better place, be my guest, best of luck with that.
If it works, I’ll jump on board and join you.
Maybe I’m a cynic in thinking that entrenched money and power cannot be lead to be populist. My interpretation of the gospels leads me to believe that jesus essentially said as much ;). Entrenched institutions do not shift course beyond further gathering power. The way to stop them is to tear them down, THEN rebuild.
I won’t try and tear them down, out of respect for the fact that to do so would destroy the Dem party would leave the R’s in power and things would get a whole lot worse before they got better.
But I’m not going to enable them to continue in the same vein of amassing power and corporate money at the expense of the people they claim to represent.
If you think I am wrong on that, well, that’s fair. I sincerely hope I am wrong, because things would be far easier to change, if I am.
That said, I sincerely wish you the best of luck changing the party dynamic. I’ll even continue to vote D (like I always do) so that I won’t help the R’s win seats from them.
One day, if you are correct, I’ll throw my chips in and canvas right along with you. But right now, they don’t represnt my interests. And if there is one thing that wisconsin proved, it’s that 100k pissed off DFH’s can’t really even change anything anymore…
so whatevs. I hope I am wrong, but I doubt it. In the meantime, I have causes that actually benefit real people, with real change – and those are the ones I’ll spend my time on.
So I hope I am wrong. But I don’t see how events
Jesse Ewiak
There’s no Russ Feingold in office anymore because he fought a modern war with a bayonet and musket.
And again, are you going to work for Jay Inslee? Or do you not fear Rob McKenna?
d. john
oops last 12 words on the last line, were a bad edit plz 2 disregard them. meh
d. john
@132,
I won’t work for Jay Inslee, but I’d vote for him if he ran for gov. Since Gregoire isn’t running again.
That would be the extent of my support.
If you want to do more to support him be my guest.
He doesn’t represent me. I don’t live in KC anymore
OzoneR
No, because they lost elections.
Jesse Ewiak
You said, “I’d like to add, that my state doesn’t need help electing decent and more or less honest progressive politicians” and that “my state is in no danger of going blue Dog or Red.”
Well guess what, as far as Governor’s go, it sure as hell is in 2012. Since that was your argument against fighting for better Democrats within the party since Washington State already has good Democrats, well, there ya’ go.
d. john
@126, I fail to see how talking about my volunteer work in a thread about volunteering makes me sanctimonious.
I hope your rightous poutrage at me daring to bring up the fact that I engage in activism and volunteer work makes you feel better, though.
dollared
d.john
Who would represent you in the Washington Governor’s race? Jim McDermott? Incompetent. Mayor McI-block-everything? Won’t even be re-elected mayor.
Dow Constantine? Why?
And what would happen to your community programs if Rob McKenna became governor?
Yup, sometimes you have to put in good defenders, until you can develop your offense. Jay Inslee is a great Democrat, more liberal than most. We will be very, very lucky to get him as governor. You got issues with Washington Democrats? Take the hour’s drive and go to Frank Chopp’s office. That’s where the problem lies.
OzoneR
Yes, that would be nice, now find the majority of progressive farmers and labors in Montana and Louisiana to do it.
David Atkins (thereisnospoon)
I’m 1st Vice Chair and Field Operations Chair of the Ventura County Democratic Party, and a CDP Executive Board Member. And “thereisnospoon” at dkos. My brother Dante writes at the front page of DailyKos, and is a vice-chair in the L.A. CDP.
A lot of us do do both.
But, of course, the key problem with this analysis is that even those of us spending countless hours on on-the-ground activism are deeply aware that just electing Democrats isn’t even close to enough, as the Obama presidency has shown.
d. john
@136,
I’ll cast my vote. I am not as afraid of McKenna getting the governeos office as you are.
McKenna eats babies, and anyone in WA that doesn’t own a pickup, a gun-rack and a radio permadialed to rush knows it.
chopper
@d. john:
yes, i’ve adopted 12 chinese midgets, why do you ask?
OzoneR
the hell is wrong with Jay Inslee?
OzoneR
the hell is wrong with Jay Inslee?
d. john
@142,
/ignored for trolling
d. john
@144,
Nothing except for the fact that I have more effective causes to support.
I’ve maintained that I like most of our dems here in WA.
Jay Inslee is one of those good ones.
But I have better things to do than to canvas for him.
I simply do not believe that campaigning for democrats is the most effective use of my volunteer time, if my goal is to affect tangible change.
beergoggles
@shortstop
I really don’t see how. Just watching the video of the glitter bombing of Bachmann was so cathartic. I had hoped for more time and money to spend on O’s campaign and getting Scott Brown kicked out of my neighborhood but that’s less of a priority with the Minnesota constitutional amendment coming up. Really threw a wrench in my plans as I’m sure it did for a lot of gay orgs and people. It’s going to divert a lot of time and money we would otherwise have given to Dems.
Scott P.
Letter From a Birmingham Jail was written nearly 50 years ago. Times change, tactics change. It’s like arguing that Obama would be more popular if he made more whistlestop train tours of the country.
OzoneR
I see, so we need better Democrats, but when there is one, I won’t bother to work to get him elected.
Just more anti-establishment unserious bullshit.
I wouldn’t worry about it though, Jay Inslee will find some conservatives who will fight for him.
OzoneR
This sort of reminds me of this article I read earlier, can’t find it now, about how gay marriage activists in Albany are getting annoyed because they’ve been there for a week and the hotel beds are lumpy.
metalgirl
https://balloon-juice.com/2011/06/21/we-had-other-things-to-do/#comment-2639978 I personally worked very hard in NC to “Turn NC Blue” for Obama in 2008 and the people on the ground made the difference!! OFA just started their recruiting for volunteers (via phone banking) this past Saturday. When they call, they ask if “you are In for Obama in 2012”. If so, they want to contact you in the next few weeks to get involved. I told them to call me back anytime and I’ll do whatever I can. You don’t have to make a huge commitment – just do what you can until Nov 2012. If Obama doesn’t win, expect to see the OH, FL, NJ, and WI trends happening on a national level.
d. john
@149,
“I see, so we need better Democrats, but when there is one, I won’t bother to work to get him elected.”
You misunderstand me.
The question being,
What’s going to benefit my community the most?
Who will make the best use of time and money to make the world I live in a better place – some D (who will ALREADY get elected anyway – u tool – u apparently don’t know WA- the dems actually want McKenna to run)
Now, if
A) Rep. Inslee wants to come and do the kind of work Tierra Nueva is doing with our local gangs, I’ll give him my time and money.
B) If Rep. Inslee wants to help some Mixtec immigrants figure out how to get their undocumented kids into some dental treatment to take care of their abscesses, shit man, sign me up to his campaign. I mean like today or this week – not through legislation – but real boots on the ground shit – I’ll sign up for his fucking campaign
Barring that, fuck you for bitching that I won’t display sufficient political fealty to YOU or JC’s cause.
I’m actually offended by your fascistic and stupid presumption of how I should spend my time and money. Or the notion that somehow it isn’t better for me to involve the extra I do have to causes I believe in – those that provide immediate benefits to the most disenfranchised people I see every single day.
If I don’t have enough left over for some D I only half trust (due to being a politician) then so the fuck what.
I’ll still vote for the guy.
But honestly, I think if you still have time and energy left over for the pols, be my guest – but why not look in your own backyard first to see what needs fixing first. If I am making a broader point here, it’s that.
d. john
@149,
If I implied the fuck you was directed at JC, it’s not – It’s directed at you, because you are the sanctimonious asshole judging me for what causes I prioritize.
OzoneR
Like I said, unserious anti-establishment
“We need politicians to work for us, but I won’t support any politicians because I don’t trust them”
You dont WANT politicians to help you, because it would blow your whole anti-establishment misguided libertarian belief system wide open. Luckily, Inslee will see there’s no point in pandering to you anyway.
shortstop
Sheeit. He ain’t libertarian in the least; there’s no coherent political (or other) philosophy at all there. He’s just half-informed and double emotional.
d. john
@154,
He’ll always have the party faithful like you to stand up for him. He doesn’t need me.
I’ll continue to focus on actual boots on the ground shit.
And cast my vote in support of the least corrupt of the two.
“Like I said, unserious anti-establishment”
I wear the anti-establishment label proudly. I’m in good company at least in that respect – MLK Jr, Jesus Christ, Ghandi, et al. (not politicians all very much anti-establishment) whoever told you that this was a slur? So are you a closet authoritarian then? U keep up the good fight for the status quo buddy — u da Man!!! lulz
And I could level the same accusation about unseriousness at you, for chiding me about not helping politicians before helping the poor….;)
d. john
@shortstop,
people who level unqualified and unsubstantiated claims of ignorance at other people are generally the ignorant ones.
This has even been researched. It’s called the Dunning-Kruger effect
=)
Have a nice day.
d. john
To all,
To clarify when I said I won’t support these guys.
It would take an amazing politician for me to forget that somehow power begets corruption, and that the real path to a better world lies in dealing with the world in which we live every day.
To the christians in the room, there is so much spiritual foundation in community activism in the gospels for this it’s unreal.
To the people that feel what MLK Jr did was revolutionary, how many politicians did he canvas for? where was the real focus of his speeches – his positions. It centered around people and community.
For the haters – I’m not comparing myself to them – but they are certainly role models for me.
The world rarely sees any real politician heroes. That’s why I don’t fight for them.
But if you want to, be my guest. seriously. The dems need people to go door to door.
Just Please don’t forget to think locally first. Your neighbors > than your representatives!
And also, vote.
Peace – I have some actual work I need to finish up… afk…
shortstop
That’s not actually what the Dunning-Kruger effect means, d. john. Interestingly, and amusingly for, well, pretty much everyone else here but you, the DK effect does have some pertinence in this situation, though.
boss bitch
omg, d.john, every 3rd post is a post from you. ffs!
Cerberus
Cannot post to save my life.
AAA Bonds
I give my time to the ACLU. They haven’t bombed Libya yet.
Cerberus
Your examples of “bad activism”, as it were, are:
1) A response to a violent street harassment, wherein the attacker believed that Andrew Breitbart contains some sort of police based authority and bringing important attention to the ugly attitudes on the right to muslims, especially muslim women and also conveniently putting the lie to the right-wing argument that they only don’t like the hijab because it’s a symbol of oppression.
and
2) The most successful activist activity done as of late in getting our ADD media to pay attention to the issue of gay marriage rights as California Prop 8 works its way through the courts and more importantly NY marriage tries yet again to pass the NY state congress and to which this media attention has been influential on at least one congressman changing their vote.
And in addition you are arguing that people are doing activism wrong, that they need to cease social or cultural based activism, media attention activism, or even bringing attention to violent assault because we need to focus on the rich-men problems that exist mainly because the Democratic Party doesn’t want to finance anyone in sure-loss elections because it costs time and money and is a problem outside the hands of the street-level activists?
This reveals a great amount of privilege and ignorance and frankly makes you sound like a complete asshole.
Really, my first instinct was just to say “fuck you”, because when you tell the most committed and conscious people that they are doing it wrong and need to shut up and follow your white man lead, well, you are engaging in a level of douchebag that tends to get you eviscerated in activist circles (and it’s not because your kind is right and we’re too self-defeating to acknowledge it).
Cerberus
Also angering because you know what?
The thing that is most blocking democratic votes, right now?
It’s not, despite the bullshit rationalizations, the fact that activists are just so darn hippie that moderates and conservatives can’t help bashing them.
It’s that people insist on viewing conservatives as human, as their policy as helpful, usually for really bad fucked up reasons. It emasculates them to support Dem policies, they don’t like darkies so Republican dog whistles sound good, they get antsy around homos and want them to go away, and so on.
Social activism is activism for the Democratic Party. The more people who see the raw evil of the Republican Party and what they intend not just for filthy women, homos, and darkies, but also for white middle class chumps, who understand that it’s not a few crazies on a few streetcorners, but an ideology of harassment, personal hatred, and elimination. The more people have to think about and consider and face a world where LGBT people, women, the racially diverse exist and have lives and aren’t some demonic force from beyond space and time, the fewer people can even stomach the policies of the Republican Party.
It’s how people like you came to be Democrats, how people who were moderately liberal come to support more liberal policies, and eventually what dictates what is “possible” when the political numbers do come into play.
Social activism in many ways is the only activism that matters.
We can put the boots on the street and damn straight it is important as well to get the people out there and voting and making it easier for them, but for the other 3 years out of 4, it’s about making those moderate pieces of shit in this country actually pay attention for once and think exactly about what they really think about the world and to pay attention to the god-damned atrocities instead of being distracted by inside-baseball and who won the day, and message discipline, because I’ve done message discipline work, a lot. And the thing about it is that it is fundamentally worthless. No one’s mind is changed, all you can do is motivate the numbers you’ve got.
So changing minds. That’s the activism that ends up mattering.
And that’s the activism you are bitching and whining and pitching a fit over because it doesn’t look like your activism.
Then get the fuck out the door and do your activism. Run for congress, we’ll raise the money and get the word for you, but don’t you ever dare say again that we’re wasting our time because we’re trying to do something more than get out the vote.
Cerberus
Still pissed.
The emo accusations?
Who do you think the activists are? How do you think most changes occur?
Hint, it’s not electing a lot of Democrats and hoping they can read our mind and make Christmas come early.
So, those “emo” “theatrical” “losers” who “claim they are the movement”?
That’s because they are the movement.
They’re doing the work. They are on the streets. They are being heard. They are being active. They are being seen. They are even getting media attention and fuck, that’s the thing you think we need to become Hara Krishna to get.
And they’re the ones changing the minds and yeah, making moderate overprivileged assholes obsessed with their white person problems upset and uncomfortable and having to think, grow, and thus become more liberal, more active, more out there, and unlikely to dump the Democratic Party in the next election because hey, there’s a scary woman and black man combination in charge, people are saying my money is threatened, hippies need punching, homos are getting rights, or Republicans claim that someone is going to kill my grandma.
The ones who fled weren’t the liberals, the activists, the kids on the street throwing glitter. It was the same damn mushy middle that can’t seem to ever think for itself.
And they will only change once the fear of being emasculated by voting in service to the party that speaks for women’s rights is gone because people realize that’s a stupid thing to worry about. When black people and homos lose their ability to scare people and when people are forced to acknowledge what abortion access really truly is and means so the horseshit their church group says turns to ash in their mouths.
The 27% will remain, but the masses will improve. Less able to be bought by advertising in voting against their interests because they are not just “getting out the vote” for election season, but because they are 24/7 conscious of what needs to be done.
And this, “activists are doing it wrong” and “they don’t really care about their issues” and “they’re just in it for the publicity”?
It is the hippie-bashing that you decry so regularly.
That’s what needs to change if we’re going to have meaningful numbers of meaningful Democrats, this constant reflexive need to demonize the people trying to make the world better for making you feel old, out-of-touch, or guilty about your behavior.
This need to prop oneself up by tearing those dumb hippie kids who are doing it wrong down instead of the attitudes inside yourself that make it easier to hate some kids facing a fucked up system and doing their best than the people making it a fucked up system.
Someone accosted and harassed a woman in a hijab for attending a liberal conference, because in their eyes, that’s a criminal offense in “their America”.
And yet, we’re all here high-fiving and ass-grabbing about how at least we’re not “flash-mobbing” and “glitter-bombing” and “Y2King it”.
Do you realize how that is the problem with our society?
The problem is not the activists.
It’s you.
Grow the fuck up and fucking help for once in your pathetic entitled lives.
(another) Josh
But don’t you understand, Cerberus, women who stand up to harassment are not the people who organize and go to meetings: they’re just nonoverlapping sets. Cole said so, and he’s a Communications lecturer!
Cerberus
Seriously, this thread just puts to the lie every attempt in the last 3 years by this blog commentary to claim that they are committed activists and that everyone else is just firebagging trolls.
No, the first opportunity to hippie-bash and what do you all, in unison, do?
Do it with glee.
Yeah, “stop the puppets”, “stupid signs”, “not helping”.
Yeah, I notice the broadness of your tactics include most of the unionization efforts, every minority group rights movement ever known, famous activists like MLK and Chavez and frankly every means of activism proven to work.
This is the reason that the number of “liberal traitors” is running higher, why so many sites are deemed stupid and wrong and to be mocked and so many activists “unhelpful” compared to yourselves.
It’s really not them, anymore.
You people have lost the point.
Badly.
This is fucking disgusting behavior on your parts.
OzoneR
If MLK Jr. was anti-establishment, why did he appear with President Kennedy in DC? If Jesus Christ was anti-establishment, why did he utter the words “Give unto Caesars what it Caesars and to God what it God’s”
They weren’t anti-establishment, they WERE the establishment. They worked within the system to get what they needed enacted. They didn’t sit around and say “I don’t like this game,” they learned how to fucking play it.
d. john
@168,
Jesus was anti-establishment.
*sigh*
Go get a degree in religious studies. Go to a divinity school and FFS then come back and try to argue that point.
If you don’t fucking understand what Jesus meant by “Render Unto Ceasar” you don’t get the context of the gospels or have anything other than the most basic grasp of Jesus.
That doesn’t slow you down at all though.
How. Fucking. Typical.
First a definition
An anti-establishment view or belief is one which stands in opposition to the conventional social, political, and economic principles of a society. The term was first used in the modern sense in 1958, by the British magazine New Statesman to refer to its political and social agenda.
(from wiki, just so we’re on the same page)
But people of Jesus’s time didn’t think he was radical at all did they?
Nah, they crucified him because he supported the status-quo
Here comes the clue train last stop, you.
He was charged with blasphemy, and executed basically for pissing people.
Read mark 14:53 – mark 15 asshat.
Nah, people loved his ass – because you know – he fit in so well, and didn’t rock the boat.
That’s why they wanted to try to find any reason they could to execute hum, before settling on blasphemy.
And go ahead and google it fuckwit. I didn’t have to.
It won’t help you in anycase – you already fucking shot yourself in the foot.
You are arguing in a subject area you haven’t the first clue about, and it’s obvious to anyone with even a remedial grasp of Christianity.
And a note – just because MLK Jr. say have rubbed elbows
with JFK doesn’t mean people didn’t wanna kill him – oh wait.
The stupid. It fucking burns
Are you so intent on proving me wrong cuz you hatez me sooo much that you are willing to make an ass of yourself trying to paint me as a clown?
How’s that workin out for you?
d. john
If I was a good Christian I wouldn’t have posted that. =)
But it’s true, and I’m not
I stand by my assessment of each figure I mentioned.
Each and every one, absolutely anti-establishment.
Particularly (since some people clearly do not know what they are talking about) Jesus, and MLK Jr.
It’s not exactly an assailable assertion.
And it’s stupid to try.
You have plenty of other ways you could trash me, that are not based on ignorant suppositions. Trust me. I’m an asshole, and I have many other sins. It’s really not hard to actually do some rational bashing. Why pick the dumbest possible angle, when I’ve given you so many better ones?
dude
But Jooohhhhnnnn, why should I register voters and organize precincts when there’s such a great lefty circle jerk going on?????