Whenever Israel is discussed, here or anywhere, invariably people start calling each other anti-Semites, often wrongly. You know what is actually anti-Semitic, though? Assuming that Jewish Americans’ number one issue is US policy towards Israel.
Earlier this week, a few dozen members of Obama’s regional finance committee met with Jim Messina, the campaign manager for the Obama 2012 effort. According to one bundler present, they discussed how Obama can win, even if the economy remains in the tank, and how the campaign can attract the smaller, grass-roots donors. The topic of Israel didn’t come up once.
[….]Jewish fund-raisers say that they fear for Israel’s future too, but continue to support the president, mainly because his Middle East speech didn’t contain anything Mr. Obama hadn’t already articulated. Plus, they point out, Israel is just one issue among several, and Mr. Obama remains more palatable than any of his opponents on issues ranging from the war in Iraq to the environment and preserving what remains of the social safety net.
“I have friends who are concerned, who wish Obama hadn’t said that,” said one bundler. “But at the end of the day, are they going to support Mitt Romney? I don’t think so.”
Most of my colleagues are older Jewish Americans and some of them have horrifying attitudes about Israel, call people anti-Semitic or self-hating if they don’t support right-wing policies in Israel, etc. But almost all of them — even those with the most out there ideas about Israel — still vote Democrat. I have never heard even one of them link their beliefs on Israel with how they plan to vote in American elections.
I know where the whole myth comes from. From a few whacks on the teevee, from Howard Fineman’s stories about how his cranky uncle votes, etc. But ultimately it’s a fairly offensive caricature that people should stop using.
Dave
Obama’s speech also has the added benefit of being the path Israel can follow and still remain a Jewish state with US support. And don’t think the donors don’t know that. Bibi and his willing idiots in the US are pursuing a plan that puts Israel as it currently exists in serious danger down the road.
Paul in KY
Doug, maybe some of those old people lie to you? Unless you’re in the booth with them, you don’t know how they vote.
I see your point though, that Jewish Americans are still a very solid Democratic bloc (which is great).
beltane
It is a highly offensive caricature and one with very scary historical precedents. By aligning himself with the American white supremacist party, Netanyahu is making the case that he, not Jewish Obama supporters, is the true self-hating Jew.
Cris (without an H)
I don’t know if “anti-Semitic” is the right word (in a world still full of people who literally hate the Jews and hope for their extinction) but it’s certainly a gross over-generalization.
I, like you, am amazed at how my Jewish relatives, liberal through and through in all other ways, will reflexively defend Israel’s worst actions. I sometimes try to remind them that opposing Likud doesn’t make you anti-Israel any more than opposing the GOP makes you anti-American, but I really don’t stand much chance of getting anywhere with that.
SiubhanDuinne
O/T, but I am bemused, perplexed, and befuddled that the Washington Post has sent me not one, but TWO, breaking news alerts that Mitt Romney has announced he is running for president.
It’s fascinating that the MSM gets all panty and breathless and excited about stupid things that everyone already knows about, but can’t spare ink, pixels or minutes to discussing stuff that is actually, you know, NEWSWORTHY or useful or interesting.
/minirant
Chris
Yeah, the real reservoir of fanatics is Christian evangelicals. I’d actually trust the American Jewish community long before I trusted the evangelical one when it comes to this issue.
(And American Jews don’t want to vote with people whose Bible culminates with their destruction. Go figure).
beltane
@Paul in KY: Paul, I am half-Jewish and can tell you that my relatives are far more frightened of the Christianists here than they are of stone throwing Palestinians on the other side of the globe.
shortstop
Didn’t the Jewish vote go like 79 percent for Obama despite McCain’s best “I’m Israel’s BFF and this boy here wants to personally push you into the sea” efforts? And it will again next year.
Guster
“Jewish Americans” is weird.
Jews? American Jews?
Cris (without an H)
That’s cause it rhymes with “US Americans.”
KXB
It’s less concern about votes than about funds. Philip Weiss has said that Jews make up almost 50% of the funds that Democrats will pull in, while that party depends on heavy turnouts from black and Latino voters, who don’t really care about this issue. If Republicans can peel away a guy like Haim Saban, the gambling don who says his number one issue is Israel, that will make sure that Obama and the Dems do not veer too far from the Beltway orthodoxy on Israel.
The Ancient Randonneur
Yeah, for some reason the “those people”, be they Jews, Blacks, or Hispanics always seem to be categorized as these great monolithic groups that are easily divined for political trends by speaking to one or two individuals.
ruemara
It you’re not a white conservative republican christian male of incomes up and over 60k, you must all think and believe the same things. How else are our betters supposed to relate to us? We’re simple people, mem sahib. We sing, we dance, we only worry about Israel, even though we all live in America.
It’s the village, Doug. What else are they going to think?
chopper
also you’ll often hear jewish dudes who vote republican say it’s about israel even tho it isn’t. it’s about taxes, food stamps, any of that stupid gooper shit, but they tell their friends and family it’s about israel.
Culture of Truth
I am also told by my conservative friends that liberals are the real racists; which blacks would know if they weren’t all brainwashed.
chopper
@Cris (without an H):
such as in the iraq. now it makes sense.
4tehlulz
@chopper: The ben-Bradley effect?
shortstop
@chopper: It never gets old. I still laugh.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
It is a myth, as there has been absolute bipartisan loyalty over several decades to the US-Israel relationship, and Obama has deviated from this script in only the most microscopic ways. There is also a myth that a laborish government in Israel would mean peace is at hand. I don’t know how many decades of contrary history would have to unfold to put that one to rest, but we have several decades of contrary history and the myth yet lives.
beltane
@ruemara: Yes, since white conservative Christians vote in lockstep based on their ethnic identity they assume everyone else does as well. The Republican model is based upon tribalism as opposed to citizenship in the broader sense of the term.
chopper
@4tehlulz:
when i first read that i thought you wrote ‘the bill brasky effect’. i once saw him scissor-kick angela lansbury!
Valdivia
totally agree with this post. thanks for saying it.
OT–anyone watch the Romney screed about how we’re almost not a capitalist country anymore despite the lowest taxation rate in 60 years?
Southern Beale
Yes and apparently the only issues women care about are abortion & kids’ education.
stinkfoot
There has never been a U.S. president or presidential candidate with a hope of winning the office that has been a threat to Israel’s national interests. (Nor should there be, I should hasten to add, mostly because someone somewhere will assume I imply otherwise. Which is why talking about the Middle East can be such a drag.) It is simply unrealistic — and thus total wingnuttery — to think otherwise. Obama’s call for 1967 borders and all the rest are still negotiable, hardly set in stone; and the Palestinians may have more to gain with him in office than anyone else, but they have cause to be wary, at least if they remember the past 15 years or so.
The portrayal of Obama as a traitor to Israel is in line with the racist fears that he’ll impose sharia socialism based on Kenyan anti-colonialist ideology or some such nonsense. It’s irrational blindness to Obama’s studied centrism.
shortstop
@4tehlulz: Well played.
@Culture of Truth: They’re at an intellectual disadvantage, so they’re easily led by liberals seeking to exploit them.
Chris
@The Ancient Randonneur:
and @ruemara:
Well in fairness, they expect all white English-speaking Christians to think and believe and care about and vote on all the same things, too, which is part of the reason they get so flipping enraged at white liberals who have the impudence not to conform to Tribal standards. They have fairly monolithic and unimaginative views all around on these things.
beltane
@Valdivia: Romeny is 100% correct. We are not a capitalist country any more. We are now a plutocratic country.
ChrisNYC
Just watching the spin on this issue is interesting. There was that splashy news about Haim Saban saying he wouldn’t donate because Obama didn’t need his money. Then this piece from Greg Sargent. It really feels like people trying to create their preferred narrative.
Valdivia
@beltane:
touche.
Roger Moore
It’s a deliberately constructed falsehood designed to cow American Jews into voting a particular way. Nothing more, nothing less.
Martin
@beltane: Not capitalistic? Bullshit. Here’s the free market at work in Florida.
The invisible
handbullets/gas pedal of the market solves all problems.david mizner
This is a non-sequitur:
“Most of my colleagues are older Jewish Americans and some of them have horrifying attitudes about Israel, call people anti-Semitic or self-hating if they don’t support right-wing policies in Israel, etc. But almost all of them—even those with the most out there ideas about Israel—still vote Democrat.”
They still vote Democrat because Dems are almost as batshit on Israel as they are.
beltane
@ChrisNYC: Haim Sabin was a member of the original PUMA crew along with Lady Lynn De Rothschild. It’s not like he was ever an Obama supporter to begin with.
PeakVT
@beltane: Plutocracy is our form of government. Our economy is best described as rentier capitalism.
Kane
ThinkProgress did an excellent piece on this very topic today. The piece shows the tweets of ECI executive director Noah Pollak as President Obama was giving his recent speech. Pollack supported the president’s speech, but later feigned outrage when there was an opportunity to attack Obama. The criticism has nothing to do with Obama policy or borders, it’s simply a disingenuous attempt to cut into Obama’s support
cat48
Linda Featheringill
@beltane:
I’m not Jewish and I’m frequently afraid of the Christianists. I think your relatives are just showing good sense.
beltane
@Martin: Ladies and gentlemen, meet the next governor of Florida.
Roger Moore
@beltane:
Capitalism and plutocracy go hand in hand. Capitalism is about who owns the means of production- a small number of capitalists- rather than how prices are set. A small number of capitalists owning everything naturally works very well with plutocracy. It goes less well with a genuinely free market, which requires enough producers to avoid monopoly or oligopoly pricing.
RSA
@Cris (without an H):
If you’re Sean Connery.
jon
@david mizner:
Yeah, I think the OP is mistaken about older Jews, their right-wing ideas, and all being Democrats. In the last couple of weeks I have received all kinds of Obama- and Democrat-bashing e-mails from the usual suspects in my local Jewish community. (Yes, I’m Jewish.)
The truth is, a lot these people are American Likudniks, and they like Republicans an awful lot even if they don’t admit it to everyone.
The fact is–a lot of these people’s angry psychosis about Israel turns off a lot of Jews from being involved in Jewish life. Probably as much as some of the other Jewish bogeymen like assimilation and intermarriage.
Kane
Republicans apparently believe that Jewish Americans are as gullible as the tea party crowd.
Paul in KY
@beltane: As they should be. I’m also more afraid of the ‘christian’ whackos here than I am of the scary moslemeses.
Chris
In Israel-related news: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110602/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_iran
Yet another career professional from the national security community points out that the warmongers in charge are complete fucking loons. Should be a little harder to dismiss this guy than the scary Kenyan Mooslin in the White House… at least, one can hope.
4tehlulz
@Chris: Why does Mossad hate Israel?
Church Lady
And Doug certainly would never unfairly caricature any group. Ever.
Joseph Nobles
What? The No-Longer-Virgin Ben assured me that any Jewish person who voted for Obama in 2012 was a JINO. Is this not true? How strange. And he was so dead on about how M*A*S*H took a liberal point of view!
Sly
I think the last time Jewish New Yorkers (New York City has the second largest Jewish population in the world) voted for any Republican as a block was in 1934, when Fiorello LaGuardia’s mayoral election put the final nail in Tammany Hall’s coffin. Complicating matters is the fact that LaGuardia was a liberal Republican, a species that has gone the way of the dodo.
I can’t speak for other areas of the United States with large Jewish populations, like Los Angeles and South Florida, but American Jews and American Liberalism have a long an interconnected history. Before right-wing reactionaries complained about the “liberal media” they complained about the “Jew run media,” and I would wager many still do in private. I know that the wingers in my family do, at any rate.
Are there Israeli hawks within the Democratic Party and American liberalism in general? Sure. This often gets ignored because of his progressive hero status, but Anthony Weiner is one of the biggest hawks in the House (he continues to make the claim that there is no Israeli occupation of the West Bank). Even Bernie Sanders, probably the most left-wing of any national politician, is lukewarm with respect to the issue (no new settlements, but silent on existing settlements, both sides do it, standard centrist pablum). And yet, could anyone imagine either of these men joining the Republican Party?
But to believe that Israeli hawkishness trumps all is to believe that such an event would be likely. Even more troubling, to believe that all American Jews are, or should be, utterly inflexible on the issue of Israel/Palestine to the extent that it trumps every other issue is to argue that the loyalty of American Jews to the United States is forever in question. That they are, or out to be, Israelis first and Americans second. And arguing that conflicting loyalties is a basic characteristic of Jews is one of the oldest anti-semitic tropes in existence.
BDeevDad
Considering 57% of Israeli’s thought Netanyahu’s reaction was wrong and he should have supported Obama, this is not surprising.
FlipYrWhig
I know I’ve talked about this before, but I feel like there’s a generational thing at play in all this. There are some people for whom Israel is always a plucky upstart, an underdog on the brink of destruction. In virtually my entire adult life, Israel has seemed like a bullying, trouble-making, cocky, swaggering state. So I’m not terribly worried about their “survival” and how much they are “surrounded by enemies” and all that.
To trivialize for a moment, there was a whole multigenerational phenomenon among Red Sox fans that they were sure to disappoint, that being a Sox fan was to be resigned to heartbreak, etc. Well, for almost a decade now, none of that has applied. They’re one of the dominant teams, and their fans are loud and proud. Somebody who started following baseball in 2005 would have no idea of that history — and much less of a rooting interest in their previous underdog nature.
So, in other words, there are many older Jews (and Americans in general) who will always perceive Israel as Boston Red Sox circa 1919-2003. For most of the rest of us, they’re just another team.
Kane
NEWS FLASH: “Two senior New Hampshire Republicans in the state house resigned their leadership positions late last night, saying that they couldn’t stay in their spots after their party turned against labor unions. “It is evident now that pro-worker Republican views like mine are not respected under this leadership team,” said House Deputy Majority Leader Matt Quandt, one of the two who resigned.”
This while both Romney and Palin are in New Hampshire. Sweet.
via ThinkProgress
Amanda in the South Bay
@Joseph Nobles:
Well, since Ben is a bona-fide tough guy, shouldn’t he move to Israel, join the IDF, and kick in Muslim doors in the West Bank?
Chris
@Sly:
Making an aside here:
Not just a liberal. He was practically the face of the New Deal in New York City.
As for Tammany Hall… it’s not often appreciated that the New Deal broke the back of the traditional Democratic Party (though not always intentionally) almost as much as it did the Republicans. Political machines relied on patronage and the spoils system, plus close ties to immigrant (especially Irish) communities, to win elections. After the New Deal and the rise of a middle class nation, when a lot of their constituents became economically secure and culturally integrated, a lot of machines had trouble staying relevant.
I’m not a student of history or economics. But I imagine that fundamentally, people were tired of having to rely on scraps from the rich and powerful to survive, no matter who they were. When the federal government started handing out to the general public things that the machines had previously been able to dole out at a whim (and by implication, withdraw if people didn’t vote for them), a lot of people probably welcomed the change.
Amanda in the South Bay
Okay, how come no one ever mentions Arab Americans and their voting records? I’m sorta curious how that vote breaks down by ethnicity/nationality/religion. How important of an issue is Israel to them?
Paul in KY
@Kane: Unless they switch over to the Democratic party (or at least start caucusing with them), it means little (IMO).
Pococurante
DougJ’s post cannot be true. Everyone knows the US government is a puppet of the apartheid-loving AIPAC.
Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory
@Martin: The absolute gold in that story:
Can’t make this shit up. I agree with beltane – this “sovereign citizen” should and ought to be the next governor of Florida.
Martin
@Amanda in the South Bay: The problem with such breakdowns is that they’re deceptive. In my experience, most underrepresented populations tend to be quite conservative, but vote Democratic. The GOP has really pushed some groups into odd alliances due to their nativism and flat-out racism.
If the GOP ever manages to ditch that reputation, watch out, because the Dems will be surprised at who they lose. The Dems are more a lesser of two evils for a great many folks that the Dems tend to take for granted.
But a good example of those odd alliances was seen in CA in 2008 when Obama won the state in a landslide and Prop 8 simultaneously passed. In particular you saw a lot of Latinos, good Catholics that they tend to be, jump ship on that vote.
Chris
@Martin:
And the prime example of that, to answer Amanda’s question, is Arab and Muslim Americans. Both were solid Republican constituencies right through 2000, before voting Democrat in 2004, which is where they’ve been ever since. Not hard to imagine why: the post-9/11 backlash scared them shitless, and if the 2000s were bad, imagine how they feel after last summer’s Park51 freakout and “Obama’s-A-Muslim” chants.
In other words, as with Jews, I suspect most of them are more worried about the psychos over here than the psychos over there.
Temporarily Max McGee (soon enough to be Andy K again)
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
More recent history- Oslo- would suggest that the path to peace runs through Labor, on the other side through the PLO. Likud and Hamas? Not so much.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Chris:
I’d think that with Latinos, yeah, they may be socially conservative, but over time, I think that’s going to change. Immigrants assimilate, young people are getting less and less batshit religious crazy, etc. Once the younger generations of those groups start voting Democratic, I think its going to start to stick.
Or am I rambling too much and being too optimistic?
liberal
@FlipYrWhig:
I figure it’s at least as much the fact that some of the older generation lived through WWII and the Holocaust than about Israel per se.
liberal
Re Jews and US policy towards Israel and related issues, ISTR there’s a strong claim out there that the political attitudes of American Jews en masse are quite different from those of the leaders of major American Jewish organizations. I would assume that we could include in the latter big donors.
ruemara
@Whiskey Screams from a Guy With No Short-Term Memory:
Pretty sure there’ll be a “draft a loony floridian sovereign citizen with guns and a car” for president movement in 10… 9… 8…
Chris
@Amanda in the South Bay:
“Immigrants assimilate” is a double-edged sword. Yeah, there’ll be more socially liberal Hispanics. But as more of them become middle and upper class, that also means more of them will be comfortable enough that they can afford (or think they can afford) to vote Republican.
In the short term, though, I don’t see that happening. It’s not as simple as “the Republican Party losing that reputation.” First, they work damn hard to cultivate that reputation (if you can call it that – “Republicans hate immigrants especially Latinos” is more of a fact than anything else) and I don’t see that changing any time soon. Second, opportunities to become middle class and respectable aren’t exactly growing on trees at the moment – especially for nonwhite immigrants – and the Republican Party’s doing everything it can to reduce them – especially for nonwhite immigrants.
Sly
@Chris:
Though when it was intentional, it was big. Tammany relied heavily on Federal contracts to maintain its patronage network. When FDR limited the extent to which they could rely on New Deal programs for political favors, he did so in the hopes that it would prevent it from rising from the grave that LaGuardia put it in. Few New Yorkers hated Tammany Hall more than the Roosevelts, and those that did were all Republicans. FDR’s rivalry with Al Smith, the “golden boy” of Tammany Hall, was legendary.
Its complicated. Immigrants, who made up the bulk of Tammany’s footsoldiers, were hard pressed to gain anything but scraps from the rich and powerful. I’d say LaGuardia beat them primarily because of three factors:
1) New York elections allowed, and continue to allow, fusion tickets: two political parties can nominate the same candidate for office. Spoilers become less likely under such a system, because you can support a candidate without technically supporting their political party.
2) Mayor John Walker and Judge Samuel Seabury. John Walker resigned after a major extortion scandal involving the police and the courts that caused him to flee the country rather than face prosecution. Seabury, one of the city’s most prominent reform-minded Democrats, was the judge who ran the investigative committee and he endorsed LaGuardia.
3) Along with the Seabury endorsement bringing in reformist Democrats, LaGuardia was able to bring in German, Jewish, and Italian immigrants into his coalition through the fusion ticket campaign. It was through this coalition that LaGuardia was able to beat Tammany’s replacement for Walker, John O’Brian.
RP
I think this is a fairly offensive caricature as well.
ChrisNYC
@beltane: Right, that’s why it’s spin, creating a narrative.
Chris
@Sly:
Thanks for the explanation. I didn’t know any of those three factors and understand it better now.
Just one question –
Didn’t know that either. The federal government up until the FDR era was heavily dominated by Republicans. Didn’t that ever get awkward? Or was it just an arrangement between fellow rich-people-stooges, like you see with the Blue Dogs today?
FlipYrWhig
@liberal: Good point, and I’m sure it’s related: the closer you are (chronologically and ideologically) to seeing Israel as a refuge for surviving European Jews, perhaps the more you’re inclined towards ardent support for the acts of its government.
shortstop
@Martin: Yes, nicely put.
@Amanda in the South Bay: The generational factor waters down conservatism in almost every demographic, but by far the uniting factor in solidifying the Latino vote for the Democrats is the GOP’s anti-immigrant hysteria. As Martin says, if the GOP ever stops bashing Hispanic immigrants (legal and illegal) and trafficking in gross stereotyping of this group, it might be able to regain its formerly pretty decent chunk of this voting bloc.
I don’t think it’s going to do that, though, for a number of years. Marco Rubio ain’t enough to counteract the massive GOP pandering to the racist portion of its base (pandering that’s certain, in this economic climate, to get worse before it gets better), and people tend to have long memories about this sort of thing.
BlueMonkey
My Syrian friend (yes, I actually have a Syrian friend in red suburban hell), corrects me every time I use the term “anti-semite” to refer to someone that is anti-Jewish. According to him, he is a Semite, too, and does not understand how the term came to mean Jewish.
BDeevDad
@BlueMonkey: Your friend is wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism
AAA Bonds
I thought this was well-known and understood . . .? “Judeo-Christian” is famous as a failed bid. How can anyone sell the idea that Jews are going to vote for the party that almost certainly harbors more genuine antisemites?
AAA Bonds
@Pococurante:
But I agree with everything in the post and I think AIPAC sucks. THAT’S SO WEIRD
4jkb4ia
Obama used to be my sister’s state senator when she was in policy school, and gave her his cellphone number. She thought he was wonderful. No joke. So this is not the “Chicago politician” smear. But from the very beginning of Obama’s political career he has been helped by liberal Chicago Jews. Obama knows what kind of messaging will go too far for this crowd. And absolutely, if the candidate is Palin, Bachmann, or some other know-nothing, whether the candidate feels Israel in their kishkes is less important than their being a know-nothing.
J Street has shown that “supporting Israel” has room for a broad range of views, and not just the AIPAC one. So chopper is right, Republican Jews will tell you they are Republicans because of Israel but that isn’t the only reason. Strict Father vs. Nurturant Parent works well here. Two differences between Republican and Democratic Jews are religious strictness and also the idea of where community comes from–whether Jews can maintain a community out of their own resources and keep the world at arm’s length, or whether Jews need a strong United States or community at large that lives up to its ideals as much as they need a strong Israel. In other words do you view the world at large as a strict father that is there to test you and in which both physical and spiritual survival is heroic, an act of defiance? Or do you feel that the world at large has given you much, so much is expected from you?
4jkb4ia
Then I have my anecdote about how my husband was so disgusted with all of the Republicans in 2008 that he voted for HRC in the primary. He was very impressed that the voters of New York sent her back, because they would be vigilant on Israel. So definitely what David Mizner said. If Israel is your issue you can find a Democrat who feels it in their kishkes.
Pococurante
@AAA Bonds: Yes. Yes it is.
Do you need a snark reference? Can’t tell your players without a snark reference. Only $3, $1 with a program and a hotdog.
The BJ community seems sucked up in the “Arab Palestinians Do No Wrong – AIPAC Drools”. As usual reality is more complex, no matter which way the Ears flap.
anon
It is anti semitic to say that the Jews are the ONLY people who do not get self determination.
I’m sorry, but there simply is no other term than A-N-T-I S-E-M-E-T-I-C
Doug Harlan J
@chopper:
Good point.
shortstop
@anon: Well, there is, but you’d have to buy a vowel.
Paul in KY
@anon: Aren’t they practicing the Hell out of ‘self determination’ in Israel?