You can count me as one who really doesn’t get the angst over the banning of incandescent lightbulbs. I completely quit using them several years ago, switched to the spiral looking ones (dunno the official name) and saw no change other than it takes a half second for them to come on and that they last forever. Literally every new bulb I am using has been in place for two years or more. If they are more energy efficient and last forever have no noticeable difference in light output (for me at least) and are widely available, what is the problem? If anything, I like the light that comes from them more, and I love not having to replace lightbulbs every couple of months.
They are also dirt cheap- you can get eight 60 watt bulbs for ten bucks on Amazon, and considering they last FOREVER, you are saving money in terms of energy usage and replacement costs. What is the problem here? Is this just some generic anger over the “heavy hand of government?” If that’s the case, I’ll spare my rage for more egregious examples. Or this (via the comments).
BTW- speaking of outstanding products, I highly recommend this. I’ve basically cut my consumption of anything but tea and water to zero, and am drinking much, much more water than I ever used to in the past. I’ve only had it about two months, but I would bet for the first time in my life (outside the military) I am actually drinking the amount of water that doctors recommend. The water just seems so much crisper and refreshing, and our city water is actually very good by most standards before even using the filter.
Jon O.
I think the philosophical underpinning here is “Fuck you, that’s why.”
For another example of deafening silence in the face of Constitutional overreach:
http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110514/NEWS07/305149926
And this one doesn’t even necessarily apply to brown people!
JGabriel
John Cole:
Just an FYI: they’re called Compact Fluorescent Bulbs or CFLs for short.
ETA: Though everyone I know just calls them fluorescents or fluorescent bulbs in every day speech.
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eemom
Dim being real dim…
Ash Can
The fluorescent bulbs aren’t Christian or manly enough.
James Joyner
I use compact fluorescents all over my home. I’d prefer to have the choice rather than having government force it, but they’re better for many applications.
But, for example, they suck at dimming and I’ve got dozens of recessed lights on dimmers in my home. They’re also not great at high wattage for reading lamps and haven’t quite come up to standard in terms of light quality (the color issue, whatever the technical name is).
And, yes, there’s some generic resentment over government regulations that make our lives less convenient in routine ways. Low flow toilets and showers being the other commonly cited examples.
aartimus
… and they don’t hate gays enough …
Tim O
It’s a states rights issue!
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/386232/may-12-2011/if-at-first-you-don-t-secede
Omnes Omnibus
I am slowly switching over. As incandescents’ burn out, they get replaced with compact flourescents. I don’t understand the angst either; my only guess is that, if liberals are for it, they are against it.
cleek
they’re kindof a PITA to dispose of, what with all the mercury and whatnot. and the color’s a little off. and they take a while to reach full brightness. and they don’t last forever in ceiling fans.
but, i’ve got them in about half of our fixtures now, and will replace the others eventually.
Irving
Truthfully, my wife hates the light they put out. Most of them seem blue, and somewhat cold looking. Even the ones that try to correct it don’t have the same warmth.
And it’s hard to use table lamps where the lampshade clips to the bulb with the spiral thingies.
trollhattan
Colbert’s priceless bit on the topic last week was spot on–it’s a handy way for the ole South to refight the War of Northern Aggression–now with 50% shinier outcome!
I’ve been able to incorporate CFLs in much of my house, the exceptions being specialty fixtures taking halogen lights and some appliances. At this point I can’t think of a single standard size screw-in incandescent, anywhere. OTOH I have a boatload of the things that I’ve retired, so I guess I can set up a Table of Illumination Freedom(tm) at the next Teabagger event and sell them for a bundle. [After that, the Lead Paint of Liberation(tm) .]
handy
It took me a while to get used to CFLs. Incandescents to my eye have a warmer, softer glow. But they are energy inefficient, and the costs savings as well as the convenience of not having to replace bulbs every few months has made me really come around flourescents.
John Cole
That makes sense. I don’t have any dimmers anywhere, and I just don’t notice the color issue.
RobertB
I’m not against CFLs in principle, but my particular flavor of electricity must be unhealthy for them – they don’t tend to last any longer for me than the incandescent bulbs they replaced.
cleek
@James Joyner:
“color temperature”
aka the color emitted by a black body heated to that temp K.
(where black body = an ideal non-colored, light absorbing, object. it’s not some kind of Strange Fruit thing)
catclub
I suspect that having paid $X dollars for a water filter, your brain may be influencing your taste buds, in order to confirm that you did not waste money on said filter.
Typically, city water is indistinguishable from bottled water, except for the price.
Arachnae
Pre-CFL fluorescent lights (the long tubes in ceilings that often make that annoying whine) have documented health issues. I personally can’t stand them. They cycle at 60 Hertz (CFLs cycle at a much higher rate, like 30 THOUSAND hertz or something), which is subliminally perceptible to a lot of people – I’m one of them – which is HUGELY stressful to be exposed to all day.
I used to work in an office where whenever the computer rebooted, the display reset to 60HZ and in their control-freak wisdom, ‘IT’ had the control panels inaccessible to the mere USER so I had to call them to come reset my display refresh. They would always say ‘oh, you can’t even tell the difference’ and I would always reply ‘then how did I know it had reset to 60’?
slag
You’ve had much better luck with them than I have. I’ve been surprised at how quickly many of mine have burned out. And the brightness delay has been pretty extreme. I want to put one out on my porch, but I’m afraid that by the time it fully lights up, I won’t need it on anymore. Also, dimmers. I have several of them.
That said, I’m sure I’ll find a way to adjust. But I would prefer for this issue to be dealt with in a more direct way–with higher energy prices. However, I can see how regressive that could be.
LGRooney
My CFLs constantly burn out and I find they’re too soft anyway. Additionally, with a 7 y.o. around, they’re not the safest option with their mercury content. Not sure if it’s a wiring problem in our complex but they don’t last any longer, if not shorter, than the incandescent ones. I’ve been waiting to get the general purpose LEDs since I use them in reading lights, including the USB LED that I use to better see the keyboard in low-light conditions, but the price has been prohibitive. Fantastic source of cool but bright light!
As for water, we have long used the big Brita tank and get damned good water. We go through at least one refill a day, probably about 4 gallons of drinking water for 4 people, and use the tap for coffee/tea/instant oatmeal, etc. It does taste better.
Jewish Steel
Don’t get too comfy with CFLs. I hear halogen bulbs, once the cost comes down last longer and are even more efficient.
If sclerotic old farts who don’t like change invested as much effort into just fucking getting used to new things rather than generating outrage…
Betty Cracker
@Omnes Omnibus: “…if liberals are for it, they are against it.”
Bingo. The opposition to curly lightbulbs are of a piece with the wingnut fondness for chainsawing trees for no good reason (didn’t Limbaugh used to have a radio spot on that?) and driving Hummers two blocks for a Big Gulp. It’s just another way of saying, “Fuck you, hippie.”
Lurking Canadian
@Omnes Omnibus:
THIS. These are the same people who spend Earth Day idling their cars in the driveway, wasting their own gas money for no other reason than to stick it to the leftists.
BTW, I have seen “dimmable” CFLs on store shelves, though I don’t know how well they work.
kdaug
“Crispy” water? No.
That’s like “crunchy” or “crumbly” water.
I mean, I don’t know what your local water supply is like in WV, but down here we tend to refer to our water as “wet”. And “clean”.
Never “crispy”.
Roger Moore
@James Joyner:
I have to disagree on the strongest possible terms. The light from incandescents sucks. It’s very blue deficient, which means nothing looks right. CFLs don’t put out a continuous spectrum (which gets them dinged by technical measures of light quality) but their color balance is much better.
eemom
moreover, as for the post title, the only thing I hated more than the whole soppy ass ET story to begin with was that godAWFUL Neil Diamond POS. What a sickening schmaltzmonger that once-talented guy turned out to be.
Some things about the ’80s are better left forgotten.
JGabriel
@cleek:
TMI, but: When I’m reading in the bathroom, I want full brightness immediately. So I’m rationing my remaining stash of incandescent bulbs to that room only. Everything else is switched to CFLs.
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trollhattan
@RobertB:
Could be. We had our main panel increased from 100 to 200 amps as part of a kitchen remodel, and afterwards I realized I was changing bulbs (of all kinds) with a fraction of the former frequency. I suspect the old system was subject to big voltage spikes and dips, which is murder on all things electrical.
Also, too, CFL quality is all over the map. Some are fast, quiet, have great color and last years. Others are slow, noisy and odd-looking and last months. Problem being, I can’t tell in the store which is which.
LED substitution lighting will have us forgetting the fluorescent things soon enough.
Arachnae
I always thought a better approach to banning them would have been to tax them at some rate that would allow the people who wanted them badly enough to pay through the nose for them, and then feel smug and superior about it. Seriously? If people want to pay five bucks for a sixty watt incandescent, why not let them?
comrade scott's agenda of rage
As noted above, CFLs have limitations that may or may not be worked out down the line.
LED home lighting is what will eventually take over. All the flexibility in incandescent, none of the disposal limitations of CFLs, same low power/heat as CFLs.
BR
I’m hoping LEDs get cheap enough soon. They last even longer than CFLs, don’t have mercury in them, and put out light that is much more like that of incandescents.
JGabriel
@James Joyner:
Are halogens or LED bulbs an option?
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The Republic of Stupidity
Biggest real issue I’ve heard about w/ CFLs is the mercury in them…
Apparently it’s a good idea to dispose of them properly… which means not in w/ the regular trash…
JGabriel
@trollhattan:
They’re still a little too expensive. I think it’s another 5-15 years before they overtake CFLs.
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trollhattan
@Lurking Canadian:
So far, so good on some dimmable flood-style fluorescents I put in some recessed ceiling cans. (I forget the PAR number, but they’re the big ones.)
I found out the hard way that only dimmable fluorescents survive in photocell-switched fixtures. Standards burn out the first night.
Martin
Shorter GOP:
Yes, incandescents need to be saved because the founders fought a war for our light bulb independence.
Comrade Mary
My house is almost totally CFLed. The only exceptions are the specialty CFLs that look like incandescents but do a poor job: the chandelier bulbs in the fixture over my dining room table and my bathroom over-the-mirror lighting. Both are so dim that I finally put back the old incandescents in the dining room and will replace the bathroom bulbs soon.
The CFLs in the rest of the house, like the office and the basement, get turned on for hours at a time but have been suitably long-lived. The colour temperature is fine for me, and the one time I broke one, I just left the room for a few minutes with the windows left open, then came back and swept up the shards and put them in the same bag that my whole, dead bulbs go in before being packed off to a hazardous waste disposal unit.
JGabriel
@eemom:
US Presidents, for instance.
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trollhattan
@JGabriel:
Yup, they’re still really expensive. My hope is they’ll get cheaper much quicker than that, like within two years. LEDs are already darn cheap to make, so I’m assuming they just need to ramp up production lines on the associated electronics.
Here’s hoping John Galt releases his perpetual LED to the Free Marketz soon!
Ghanima Atreides
@Cole I hate sully more than anyone here, but this is damned funnie.
you quit drinking alcohol?
::gulp::
LGRooney
@JGabriel: LEDs. I had a halogen reading lamp next to my bed which eventually scared me too much because I burned myself countless times trying to turn it off in a half-sleepy state. I don’t know how long they take to cool down but I was always afraid that if I knocked it down accidentally before it cooled, I could easily burn up the place.
Martin
@JGabriel: Probably less than that. It’s mostly a yield problem, and such things scale VERY well once the volume gets going. But LEDs are awesome also because they’re color controllable – so you can get blue-whites and warmer whites.
We’re quite fond of our fast warm-up CFLs though. They’re a standard format like an incandescent bulb (no spiral) so they work in lamps with a clip-on harp, and look nice in ceiling fans, and come up to brightness in just a couple of seconds.
Svensker
@catclub:
Then you’ve never lived in northern NJ, where the tap water tastes like dirt, except after a heavy rain when it tastes like mildew.
Some places have good tasting water, some don’t.
Scott P.
John, you know that “doctors recommend drinking eight glasses of water a day” is complete bullshit, don’t you?
There is no “doctor-recommended amount of water”. At least, none with any scientific backing. Drink when you’re thirsty. That’s all you need to do, unless you are engaging in strenuous exercise.
georgia pig
@BR: LED lights are getting scaled up to the point that they are competitive for a lot of applications (e.g., recessed lighting), and soon they’ll be relatively cheap, especially considering longevity. In the not too distant future,there will be cheap LED lights that will be programmable to provide just about any color, color temp and intensity you might want, something you can’t do with incandescents or CFLs.
Svensker
As to why cons hate CFLs, it’s because CFL use means that you “believe” in global warming, the commie scientist plot to take over the world. Therefore NOT using CFLs is a blow for freedom, justice, and the Murkan way! Similar to why idling you Hummer for hours in your own driveway is a blow for freedom.
Violet
I use a lot of CFLs, but not everywhere. I can definitely tell the difference in light quality. And I’m apparently also in a small portion of the population that sees the fluorescent flickering and is bothered by it.
I had a doctor ask me about that in the history-taking section of my first visit and I about fell off the chair when he did. I knew the flickering bothered me but didn’t know it bothered anyone else. Certainly not enough to be on a doctor’s intake form. It’s part of a pattern of things for a diagnosis and I’m in the group. Yay.
So yeah, I’d like to have choice in lightbulbs.
ItinerantPedant
@Irving: Well the color thing is a matter of getting bulbs with the right mixture of color temperature altering chemical impregnated liners (try saying that three times fast). Don’t get a batch until you find a brand and color you like.
As for clip lamps, GE at least (and others AFAIK) make CFLs with a glass bulb around them for exactly that reason. Ask around at a hardware store, they’ll be able to help (avoid Home Depot, as any question more involved than, “Where’s the john?” results in either a dumb look or erroneous information…).
Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)
I’m extremely fond of the fact that you can overclock CFLs. That is, they use *so* much less electricity that you can put a much brighter bulb in the same socket. 43 watts is 43 watts is still less than the 60 watts you were using, but it’s a buttload more lumins.
In rooms that tend to be dark or for having a lamp around to ward off seasonal depression, that’s damned handy.
khead
@Omnes Omnibus:
Definitely this.
No one is gonna tell ol’ Smokey what light to use.
JGabriel
trollhattan, Martin: I hope you guys are right about LED production ramping up more quickly than I predict. It’s definitely something I’d rather be wrong about. I have noticed that they’re becoming quite common in comnputer monitors, which is probably a good sign.
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malraux
@JGabriel: FWIW, bathrooms should have regular lights anyway. CFLs like to be left on for a longish time after being turned on, so bathrooms, where the typical length of being on is a few minutes, is a bad idea.
I’ve also had the run of really bad CFLs that burn out almost as fast as regular lights. And I find that the light isn’t nearly as nice; I was always buying the better incandescent lights that had the coating to true up the spectrum anyway. And disposal is pretty inconvenient. I’m having to dispose of CFLs at home depot, batteries at radio shack, electronics at the collection point, etc. I would happily pay a carbon tax on incandescence.
Roger Moore
@Comrade Mary:
That’s interesting, because one of the things I really like about CFLs is that you can get higher light output for a given fixture. I got 60W equivalent candelabra bulbs for my one fixture that takes them, and they put out way more light than the incandescents that were there before. Similarly, the bulbs you usually get in those bathroom fixtures are about 40W, but you can get equivalent size 60W or 75W CFL replacements that still use less power.
I suspect that part of the problem is the manufacturers cheat on their ratings. They say you can replace an incandescent with a CFL that uses 20-25% of the power, but they probably should be using 25-30% instead. So the “40W equivalent” bulb you’re using is actually more like a 32-35W incandescent and you notice the difference. If you use a “60W equivalent” instead, you’ll still save a lot of power but you’ll get more light.
Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)
@Roger Moore:
Right. They grade the bulbs on the package by ‘produces the same light as an X watt bulb’. But somewhere on the package it shows the ACTUAL wattage. Your light socket doesn’t care about anything but the actual wattage. If that means you can plug a ‘same light as a 150 watt bulb’ in a 75 socket, so be it.
Let’s see, at a glance these ‘same light as a 100 watt bulb’ use… 27 watts and can be safely plugged into a 40 watt socket *and will still save electricity*.
maye
Why do they make that high pitched buzzing noise? that’s why I haven’t switched. I hate the sound.
MagicPanda
@Scott P.: What Scott said.
Just drink when you are thirsty and don’t worry about getting X amount of water per day.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=eight-glasses-water-per-day
Roger Moore
@Scott P.:
Or have problems with kidney stones.
The Ancient Randonneur
@Scott P.:
Thank you. I get tired of hearing about “doctor recommended” when it comes to how much water to drink. I would be happy to read any study done with some scientific merit. You are absolutely correct to point out the best thing to do is drink water when you are thirsty.
Brachiator
This is a myth (kinda like the myth that spinach was especially good for you), and unless your pipes or water supply is tainted (unlikely), purchasing some kind of filtering system is a waste of money. Also, you get a considerable amount of water from eating yer fruits and veggies.
@Svensker:
Don’t know about NJ, but I recall a test of bottled water where NYC water came out tasting the best.
Also, too, a lot of folks who push bottled water on their kids cheat them of the benefits of fluoridation and the kids end up with more cavities.
I’m neutral on the light bulb issue. Some of the issues over proper disposal of CFLs nudge me slightly against using them, but I agree that the purely ideological whining is stoopid.
Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus)
@maye:
That’s the regular flourescents. I’m very familiar with the buzzing of regulars, but the CFLs don’t make it that I’ve ever heard.
trollhattan
@JGabriel:
I’m kind of a flashlight geek and the rate at which they’ve ramped up LED output while maintaining or even reducing the current requirement has been mindboggling. And on the cheap side of the ledger, at Home Depot I recently saw a clamshell pack of ten led flashlights, with batteries, for ten frickin’ bucks. Not to mention most of my Festivus light strings are now LED.
So I have hope that it’s not difficult for the techology to jump over to standard household lighting. I suspect one of their biggest challenges is diffusing LED output in a way that mimics incandescent.
Ken
Bah. Incandescents were shoved down our throats by Big Government in collusion with Big Electricity. Nasty things don’t have the right color and are made out of chemicals. Give me a good oil lamp any day. It’s hard to get proper whale oil nowadays unless you have a source in Japan, but I’ve found that dolphin oil works nearly as well.
MattR
@Jon O.: Gotta say I am not too outraged by that Indiana Supreme Court decision and I can’t even say that I disagree with it. I don’t buy the argument that the Fourth Ammendment is gutted or undermined in any way by saying that you do not have the right to use force to resist an unlawful police intrusion into your home. While I understand where they are coming from, I believe that our protection from police overreach comes from the courts. Giving citizens the idea that they have the right to use violence if they feel the police are being unlawful is very dangerous, especially with all the recent anti-government talk including the use of “second ammendment remedies”
trollhattan
@Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus):
If one does, it probably has a defective ballast. They shouldn’t make any sound at all. Cheapies can cause A.M. radio interference. Think of it as striking a blow against Rush.
catclub
@Svensker: “… tastes like dirt”
Isn’t mineral rich water good for you? ;)
I live where the water is extraordinarily soft — unfortunately that correlates with ill effects in terms of heart disease. So enjoy your mineral rich water!
I should have added to my first comment to JC: If it works for you, good!
Svensker
@Brachiator:
NY City water is delicious. It really depends on where you live. Toronto has good water so we drink tap, when we were in NJ we had filtered water because the tap stuff was so awful.
I asked my dentist once whether his profession would go out of business eventually because of fluoridation and he said, “nope, bottled water.” Apparently rich kids have an epidemic of cavities because they’re so low on minerals.
slag
@Martin:
This is good to know.
I think one of the problems with CFLs is that they were on the market before they were ready. And it can be hard to know if the technology has actually improved significantly or if the marketing has just improved. The last time I bought CFLs was probably over 6 years ago. And since then, I’ve been looking for real evidence that they’ve changed their ways, but haven’t seen much that I’ve felt was trustworthy. They claim to be just as good as incandescents but then they buzz and take longer to light up. They claim to be dimmable, but then they come out with special CFL dimmer switches. Combine that with the disposal challenges and it’s easy to see why CFLs might have [adoption] problems.
Lately, though, I’ve been holding out for LEDs. Every time I go to the hardware store, I check out the lightbulb section just hoping. One of these days.
JGabriel
@Brachiator:
I love my NYC water, and have always drunk it straight from the tap. It comes from the Adirondacks. Filters and bottled water are pretty much a waste of money here unless you have really bad pipes in your building.
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maye
@Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus): my CFLs sound like a mosquito.
Comrade Mary
@Roger Moore: I think I may just have gotten some weakass bulbs (Ikea ca. 2005, finally replaced this year). Maybe some new chandelier CFLs will actually be bright enough.
But man, is my bathroom dim. I was trying to replace caulking in my tub a few months ago and had to bring in an incandescent on a clamp fitting just to see things clearly.
magurakurin
LED lights are going like hotcakes here in Japan. Prices are dropping every month. I just talked with a clerk at the electronics store and she said next month the tube and round tube LED bulbs will be coming out. Right now they only have the screw in bulb types. I’ve had all CFL bulbs for over eight years now. I don’t have that many lights altogether, but one of those has lasted the whole eight years. When they burn out(if??) I will get LED. People who are clinging to incandescent bulbs are fuckheads. That includes all the people on this thread who made lame, weak, and moronic defenses of outdated technology. It’s beyond stupid. It’s pigheaded and foolish. Seriously, get over yourselves. You can’t possibly experience that much of a difference in the “light quality.” That’s whiny bullshit. Stop wasting everyone else’s electricity and buy a CFL bulb when your fucking 20th century light bulb burns out…which will be fucking soon, I promise you.
eemom
anyone else ever wonder why the 5th out of 5 dentists surveyed DIDN’T recommend sugarless gum?
Nic
How about yesterday’s supreme court nonsense? Who needed civil liberties anyhow, right?
Svensker
@catclub:
Yeah, the hard water in NJ made keeping sinks, showers, toilets, etc. clean really difficult. When we moved to Toronto I had to up my intake of calcium/magnesium to counter the water — started getting leg cramps and heart palpitations until I adjusted my intake. But we don’t get soap scum buildup in the shower!
gex
Conservatives, developmentally, are still in their terrible twos. Our neighborhood has more than one SUV with a sticker that says “My SUV offsets your Hybrid”. See? Because it is fun to be needlessly oppositional. You can’t tell me not to waste gas! You also can’t tell me not to save energy! And if you dare suggest that I make any adjustments to my behavior, no matter how minor, I’m going to react by going the opposite way only with more vigor because I.Will.Not.Be.Told.
Or at least that’s how it comes off to me.
slag
@magurakurin:
I’m just glad you’re not in their marketing department.
Catsy
We made the switch to CFLs back in, I think, 2006 or so. It’s saved us an amazing amount of money–at least one bulb moved with us from apartment to house.
As for the people complaining about the light they put out, I don’t get it. I have always *hated* the excessively warm light that incandescents generate. Between photography and building with Lego, the color balance of incandescents that aren’t full-spectrum really fuck with me, altering the perceived colors of things and require a large amount of effort in post to fix photos.
I have a set of daylight CFLs that I use for photography that I haven’t had to replace for over two years, but even the regular CFLs in our house produce much cleaner light.
Yes, CFLs have a couple of disadvantages compared to incandescent, but those are overwhelmingly outweighed by the advantages and efficiency gains.
Agree with the people upthread who point out that opposition to CFLs is just another facet of conservative tribal identification, a way of saying “fuck you hippies”. There are plenty of reasonable criticisms of CFL technology, but none of them explain the level of vehemence coming from the anti-CFL dinosaurs until you factor in the “fuck you hippies” angle.
JGabriel
@magurakurin:
B-b-but, it’s just one bulb in my bathroom.
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Walker
My house electricity eats CFLs for breakfast. Incandescents actually last longer than they do. Plus, the amount of time that they take to warm up makes them suck for bathrooms; they are not designed to be turned quickly on and off again.
Cam
@catclub:
That may be true in some places (like Boston, where I was raised), but the water is so heavily chlorinated in the Rochester NY area, where I live now, that some kind of filter is a necessity. Perhaps I wouldn’t notice the pool-water taste if I had grown up here, but coming from an area with good water, I noticed the difference immediately. I use a simple Brita filter, which is reasonably priced and does a great job.
mr. whipple
The bulbs we’ve tried suck. Too dim and take a long time to warm up.
JGabriel
@slag:
Actually, it kinda sounded like me doing tech support.
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Linda Featheringill
My apologies for being way OT [light bulbs are so riveting] but this is so cute. “When Obama got Osama . . . .”
Is this how legends are born?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bbOhnvJ1f4o&feature=player_embedded
gex
@Omnes Omnibus: James Joyner hit it. It’s inconvenient. It is worth having insecure energy supply and global warming if it means you won’t be slightly inconvenienced.
That the inconvenience of buying a different type of lightbulb trumps any concern for energy security or global climate change is what I expect from conservatives/glibertarians. Fuck the commons. Me. Me. Me.
ruemara
@catclub:
Yolo County, where the water from the tap is a rich, creamy selenium flavour. It’s a water-ccino!
No one, particularly in Davis, is willing to drink the tap water except under extreme duress.
WereBear
Too true. I wonder if the brain loses its ability or what… or if they were always PITAs and only have so many cycles of change in the first place.
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
I have one of those water filters. We have a well that is slightly sulfur at times so its nice to clean it up a bit. I’m spoiled enough now that when I go to relatives I have to prepare myself for their tap water.
trollhattan
@gex:
SRSLY??? That there is f*cked up. Hope they’re enjoying the $70 fillups as much as the sweet irony. (In my experience konservatives don’t “do” irony, much less understand the concept.)
gex
And anyway, the fact that incandescent bulbs are being phased out has helped the LED bulb market. Those are still a bit expensive, but I bet they will be quite a bit more popular than CFLs once the economies of scale hit in their production.
Fucen Pneumatic Fuck Wrench Tarmal
100watt equiv cfls. bought a mess load of them, have them in mine and 2 other places i put the lightbulbs in, they work.
Walker
@Cam:
You spoiled people with city water. Think about all the stuff those of us with wells on our property have to do with our water.
Martin
@trollhattan:
Oh, it’s not even close any more. I’ve got a single-AA LED flashlight (Cree XP-G R5) that pushes 110 lumens. Those old 4D Maglite incandescent flashlights that people swore by were 72 lumens. My 2-AA version is 180 lumens. And at the same brightness as the Maglite, my 2-AA will run just as long as those 4-Ds.
magurakurin
@slag:
They don’t need me. I’d be willing to be that most of the bulb makers have long term planning that includes ramping the production of incandescent to zero regardless of any government action. Incandescents are going to go away because they are inferior in ways that are more important than any ways in which they are not. It makes sense for government policy to hasten their demise and quicken the migration to a more energy efficient product. But either way, there will come a day very soon where incandescent bulbs will be gone. Have you seen a tube television for sale lately? Tube radios? Shit changes. Fucking get over it and move on.
water balloon
I’d guess about 5% of people who use them will dispose of them properly. I don’t know if there’s enough mercury in them to cause major problems, but within a decade there will be millions of them in landfills across the country.
Catsy
@catclub:
Many times I’ve traveled through areas and stayed in homes where the water is treated to be soft, and I can’t begin to tell you how much I hate soft water with every fiber of my being. It feels greasy and disgusting. When I take a shower in it, I feel like I can’t get clean, like I have this film of soap scum or oil that I just can’t get off of me, and I can’t tell when I’ve actually washed off all of the soap.
malraux
@magurakurin: Obvious troll is obvious.
That said, the light quality is a real thing. CRI is the measure of that. Things that are blackbodies are really good at that (essentially perfect). Fluorescents are getting better but will never be perfect.
gex
@eemom:
That’s what Reagan said!
Walker
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937:
Is your sulfur taste only in the warm water? Because if so, that is a bacteria that is pretty easy to treat in your line.
boatboy_srq
@Jewish Steel: Halogen bulbs, which are now only marginally more expensive than incandescents (S-mount bulbs running something like $2-3 each on Amazon), are only about 10-15% more efficient than the standard incandescent bulbs. CFLs are 60% more efficient or more. LEDs seem the most efficient and cost-effective way to go, being 80% (or better) more efficient than incandescents.
As for the love affair the Right has with the incandescent bulb, it goes straight back to the culture of consumption. The same ones who whine about the imminent demise of incandescents are the ones complaining that gubmint taxes and regulations on the oil industry are making things impossible for the oil companies, and that they should be free to burn as much gas as they like in their gas-guzzling SUVs instead of being “forced” to either drive less or buy something more efficient. The idea that being resource-frugal is good for them personally just doesn’t occur to them.
MagicPanda
OT: Has there been a thread on Ryan’s budget relaunch speech yesterday? Could someone point me to it?
yoodow
@James Joyner:
If you want to use your dimmer, there are a couple of choices for you:
1. You can purchase special CFL-s for dimmers. They cost a little more.
2. If you don’t want to spend the extra money, leave just one of the incandescent bulbs in the dimmed circuit and replace the rest with CFL-s.This, of course assumes that you have more then one light controlled by the same dimmer.
magurakurin
@mr. whipple:
dude, you bought shit bulbs then. Seriously, they work great. The old ones took a long time to light up, but I have bulbs now that light right up. And how badly do you need the light anyway? So it takes a few moments to come to full brightness. What are you a fucking surgeon? And in five more years we’ll all be using LED lights anyway.
Really, everybody, get fucking over it.
Martin
@mr. whipple: They make much better ones now. Very nearly instant-on and quite bright. We had to take the ones out of our kitchen ceiling fan and put in lower wattage ones because it was like eating dinner on the surface of the sun. The crappy ones are still on the market, but if you poke around on forums you can find out which ones are good.
magurakurin
@malraux:
bullshit. Nobody is that fucking sensitive. Christ, it’s just a goddamn light bulb. whatever. Incandescents are a dead technology. In ten years you’ll have to pay 10 times more and special order them. Fuck it. Use the fucking things if you like. Pay more for electricity, replace them more often(so pay more for the bulbls, too)whatever makes you fucking happy, boss.
WereBear
And I must speak up for water filters; we love ours, and even fill the cat’s bowls with it, because they can taste the difference, too.
Our host just said he can taste the difference. Insert favorite Latin phrase here.
dpcap
I don’t know what I’m doing wrong, but I’ve had to replace several CFLs in the past few months and they’ve failed by causing a terrible stench and burning smell all throughout my house. (God knows if it’s vaporizing mercury.)
Honestly I’m not very sold on them these days, they’ve been very unreliable (to me.)
trollhattan
@ruemara:
True dat. You be on the wrong side of the river, but I understand help is on the way in the form of a new river intake and treatment plant for Davis and Woodland. IIUC you folks also have an unusually high amount of barium in your “water.” Good times.
The home water treatment thing is pretty complicated. Simple carbon filters will remove chlorine, chlorine byproducts and organics. That alone can achieve huge improvements in water’s taste and odor. Metals and minerals and redionuclides are much more challenging and can reqire an array of equipment to resolve. Biohazards are a completely separate category that should only come into play for folks on poor quality domestic wells or informal surface water.
Treating the whole house and not just the point of use (kitchen) can be very expensive. Even then, an undersink reverse-osmosis system will cost several hundred bucks and require expensive filter membrane exchanges. For some, it’s cheaper to call the Arrowhead man.
gex
@The Ancient Randonneur: I’m pretty sure those “doctor recommendations” for water consumption correspond with the rise in bottled water. As in, Dr. Madison Avenue suggests you drink 8 glasses of water a day.
JGabriel
Martin:
Martin, since you seem to have done some of the work already, care to share a few recommendations with us?
.
Brachiator
@Svensker:
@JGabriel:
Good to hear that NYC water is still great (I love New York). Also good to know that Toronto water is great.
On a related note, I grew up in Texas and as a kid my friends and I would ride our bikes for hours. It was a big thing not to have to go back into the house for anything, and so for us the best tasting water in the world on a summer day came from turning on a water hose and drinking straight from the spigot.
Roger Moore
@Comrade Mary:
Ikea seems to be one of the worst about overrating its bulbs. They sell 7W CFLs as 40W incandescent replacements, when they’re probably putting out about as much light as a 32W incandescent. Replace that 7W bulb with a 10W or 12W one and you’ll be very pleased with the amount of light you get.
Citizen_X
@Scott P.: But thirst is not always a reliable measure of dehydration. Thirst sensation diminishes with age. Also, thirst will not keep up with dehydration as you exercise. If you exert yourself in cold weather, you may not feel thirsty as you lose fluids. And if you’re in the desert, when you’re thirsty, you’ve waited too long to hydrate.
The most convenient measure of hydration is urine color: it should be straw yellow. If it’s darker, you need to up your fluid intake. If it’s too light colored, you’ve drunk too much (or have taken diuretics–e.g. beer).
Captain Haddock
I think there is a major difference in the amount and quality of light. I will hoard as many incandescents as I can get my hands on.
Josie
@MagicPanda: I haven’t seen one and I’ve been looking for it.
Mike S
Apparently there is enough heat build up with LED chips that cramming enough of them in a bulb to = 100 W incandescent is still a few months away per the AP Article in our paper today
gex
@trollhattan: Sadly, yes. It’s sad when full grown adults, parents no less, behave like obstinate, rebellious teenagers. Why build an entire life of performance art demonstrating that you hate liberals?
MagicPanda
@Josie: I haven’t seen any coverage about the event on blogs / papers either. Must have been a non-event?
WereBear
As someone who has worked on both sides of the camera, those hot lights can dehydrate you quickly and you have no idea you are “off” even though your concentration is starting to go.
When we had someone fumbling lines or losing focus, water made a huge difference.
maus
@The Republic of Stupidity:
But even that is more to do with the mercury slowly entering the groundwater, not laying around the house and around children. It’s not poisoning anyone lying there in use, or a BIOHAZARD if broken.
dollared
@Walker: you need instant on types. Your experience is outdated. And yes, mine last no longer than incandescents (100 year old house with electricals installed by thomas edison himself). I still save massive amounts of money on electricity, in the cheapest metro area in the US.
JGabriel
Citizen_X:
And once again we seem to have travelled the road from CFLs to piss litmus.
Why does that always happen here at BJ?
.
Yutsano
@Josie: Is this a situation where teh math demands it?
Also: when they make a CFL that’s kitteh-proof I’ll gladly buy them. She has a habit of knocking over my bedroom lamp and killing the bulb.
MagicPanda
@WereBear: Wow. You managed to tie the “lights” part of this post and the “water” part of this post together. Bravo!
WaterGirl
@Violet:
Me, too!
I’m almost afraid to ask, as I am sure I would be in that group, too. But okay, I’m asking.
dollared
Incandescents are the third most perfect example of an economic phenomenon called “incumbency.” What you have is cheap and reliable, so why change it to something less cheap, even if in the long run you will save? Why pay $2.00/bulb when you can pay $0.25?
First incumbent is the internal combustion engine in cars and trucks, and the fuel infrastructure that goes with it.
Second is coal fired electrical plants.
stuckinred
RIP Harmon Killebrew.
Swellsman
I never got the angst over these bulbs either. Than I saw an article about 6 weeks or so ago that said that if everybody switched over to the new bulbs and got rid of the incandescent one the amount of electricity being saved would cost coal companies several billion dollars in profit.
I have no idea if this is true or not, but it does provide the only sound reason I have heard for why there is such a huge pushback against these things. I mean, sure, it’s always good to punch a hippy, but generally speaking you don’t see this level of pushback unless it makes money for somebody.
catclub
@Catsy: Wash and soap, 10 seconds. Rinse and rinse, 10 minutes.
Alan in SF
No quarrel with energy-saving technology, or even gov’t mandates, but…(from the EPA):
CLEANUP AND DISPOSAL OVERVIEW
The most important steps to reduce exposure to mercury vapor from a broken bulb are:
1. Before cleanup
a. Have people and pets leave the room.
b. Air out the room for 5-10 minutes by opening a window or door to the outdoor
environment.
c. Shut off the central forced air heating/air conditioning (H&AC) system, if you have one.
d. Collect materials needed to clean up broken bulb.
2. During cleanup
a. Be thorough in collecting broken glass and visible powder.
b. Place cleanup materials in a sealable container.
3. After cleanup
a. Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials outdoors in a trash container or
protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Avoid leaving any bulb
fragments or cleanup materials indoors.
b. For several hours, continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the
H&AC system shut off.
malraux
@magurakurin: What, sensitive enough to see differences in light quality? That’s pretty easy. I can easily see that the fluorescent under cabinet lights in my kitchen are a bit too cool for the warmer color scheme. By economy, heat dissipation, and uniformity won out over color.
And the issue is that shortly, I won’t be able to pay more to use them. By law, the 100 watt incandescent light bulb will be illegal.
Roger Moore
@malraux:
CRI is a really bad measure of that. CRI measures only how close the light source gets to being a continuous spectrum, but not how well it covers the light sensitivity of our eyes. So CRI is a good measure if you’re trying to compare two lights with a similar color temperature, but it doesn’t do a good job of comparing a daylight balanced CFL to a 2700K incandescent.
catclub
@dollared: Another incumbent would be magnetic hard disks for storage, but like the internal combustion engine, they keep upping their game pretty well.
All kinds of things have been touted as HD killers for years, and they are still the standard.
bemused
@Ghanima Atreides:
I dunno, seeing Brooks with a goofy, animated expression is a little disturbing. I don’t think I want to know what set that off.
trollhattan
@Swellsman:
One of the most tortured, specious arguments I see against switching from incandescents is the loss of precious winter home heat from those hot, inefficient things heating one’s cold, cold house. (Silence on the whole summertime air conditioning load problem, of course.)
You just can’t make this crap up.
Citizen_X
@WereBear:
This can be a lethal problem in the desert: dehydration makes you stupid. So, how does someone with a diminished mental capacity recognize that they’ve got a diminished mental capacity?
I end up using it as a rehydration signal. I.e. that thought, “Gosh, I’m feeling kinda slow” = STOP WHAT YOU’RE DOING AND DRINK WATER NOW NOW NOW. IOW, not only “drink when you’re thirsty,” but also, “drink when you’re stupid.”
malraux
@Roger Moore: True, I forget that there are really crappy incandescent bulbs as well.
dollared
The mercury in CFLs problem is a perfect example of environmentalist stupidity, lack of systems thinking and overfocus on toxics.
If you get your electricity from coal, the plant emits mercury from burning coal. How much? Each CFL contains less mercury than is saved at the coal plant when you use the bulb – and remember, if you don’t break the bulb, the mercury is never released, while the coal plant is spraying it into the air. http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/reviews/news/4217864
There are a few smart people, so it is now much easier to deal with the bulbs. You can drop them off at Home Depot, and at many Ace and True Value HW stores. Many metro areas have more options, but those are the national programs.
handy
@Citizen_X:
Just imagine if Rush used that as a barometer. He’d have to tinkle so much he wouldn’t be able to finish his show.
Of course, for a lot of people drink and then they get very stupid. So the drinking just compounds the stupidity. (If you know what I mean)
zach
Can you imagine the outrage if daylight savings time had been extended sometime in 2009 and 2010 rather than in 2005? Just based on darker mornings in the fall: “Obama’s trying to get our children raped at the bus stop!”
As is, it was a fairly consequence-free bit of a mostly inconsequential energy bill. It was also the only act of the 109th Congress that remotely impacted my life (other accomplishments: the Terry Schiavo bill and the border fence). In fact, the 109th Congress is an excellent illustration of why Democrats should be happier with gains made by the 111th Congress.
dollared
@catclub: You mean you don’t back up your work laptop to your iPod?
scav
I’ve got these vague memories that some Victorians got all het up about the replacement of the open hearth with closed stoves as signaling the death, the bitter and utter DEATH of family life. Hearth! Heart! Hespia! A Truth going back to At Least The Romans! Calamity Looms. Can’t find my sources. Bother.
Martin
@Citizen_X:
If only. The republican party would all die of drowning.
Joey Maloney
It’s a health issue for some people, like my ex, for whom fluorescent lights are a migraine trigger. They call the CFLs “flicker-free” but that’s just not so. The flicker is less noticeable but it’s still there and for people who are prone to ocular migraines it can be crippling.
And I do mean “crippling”. My ex is on full disability because she simply cannot work in any modern office environment; a day’s exposure to fluorescent light results in headache, visual auras, cognitive impairment, all the symptoms of full-blown migraine and she needs days to recover. There are a small number of people who are very severely affected. They’re all hoping that LEDs get cheap and widely available quickly, and in the meantime they’re stocking up on incandescents.
trollhattan
@dollared:
Yup. And the increased CFL startup speeds folks are noticing is the result of greatly decreased mercury content–so that’s a win-win.
Far more mercury is contained in traditional fluroescent tubes, which we’ve had in our homes, offices and schools for more than half a century, not to mention mercury-vapor industrial and street lighting.
Mike
I have an issue with anything that is “banned”. Old fashioned light bulbs are not inherently dangerous, so there is no reason to ban them. Instead, they should be taxed heavily. There are certain applications where CFL’s are not practical or effective and incandescents are the only option. People should not have to go to the black market for these types of options, but they should pay more to keep investment in new technology alive.
Personally, I hate the light that comes out of these CFL bulbs, and I broke one once which made for quite an emergency at the time. Still, 80% of the lights in my house are CFL. I spared the bathroom, so that you don’t look like a zombie in the mirror, and little used lights were spared (if you turn CFL’s off and on too much, they die quicker than incandescents do–negating the supposed long life). If you live in an area with dirty electricity (like in the country), you’re going to be in trouble. CFL’s don’t like dirty electricity, and you’ll be changing them every month.
So, there are a lot of negatives with CFL’s, but the energy savings are substantial. For me, the savings in energy costs outweighed the many negatives with CFLs, so I switched. I don’t like the light they put out, but I live with it. I’ve thought about LED’s–they are pretty cool, but they are incredibly outrageously expensive at the moment. I’m not paying $70 for a light bulb, I don’t care how long it supposedly lasts.
So, I can understand the resentment out there from people who are having a choice taken away from them, especially when the replacement is not as good at what it does (put out light) and/or costs a lot more (LED’s). I’d be resentful, too, if I didn’t know the whole story. Even so, taxing, instead of banning, would have been a better choice.
dollared
@Alan in SF: From Seattle City Light: “the main danger is the broken glass. Don’t cut yourself. Put the pieces in a bag, seal it, and drop it off at Bartels Drugs or Home Depot.”
They don’t even say to wash your hands.
Roger Moore
@Catsy:
The treatment to make it soft will often make it alkaline too, which is why it feels greasy or soapy; its doing nasty things to your skin. And washing off the soap is a more complicated question than you might think. Hard water will precipitate some of the soap rather than washing it off. That reduces the feel of soap still on your skin, but you’ll have soap scum left on your body. My current water is hard enough that I had to give up soap and switch to body wash because the soap scum deposits on my skin were giving me a rash.
ChrisS
@JGabriel:
It comes from the Catskills
Adirondacks.I don’t know the whole story, but from what I remember they spent a lot of money protecting the watershed instead of spending gajillions more on treatment plants. NYC water, AFAIK, is unadulterated.
dollared
@Mike: I pretty much agree with you. A $2.00 tax/bulb, with proceeds dedicated to energy research and efficiency subsidies, would be an elegant solution. And it would make our President look like a free market genius.
Then we can legalize pot and get on with the War on Black Market Colombian Incandescents
PurpleGirl
@Brachiator: Yes, NYC has good tasting water but it’s coming from a different place in the mountains upstate and being filtered on the way down to the City.
A place I know where you have to filter the water at the faucet to drink it is South Florida (Boca Raton, Palm Beach County). It isn’t just the taste factor, there are minerals in the water that the water systems don’t filter for and the user has to at the faucet. There are lots of places like that in the US. Most places are not like NYC.
polyorchnid octopunch
Just as a quick note… as a guitarist (an electric one) the CFLs can be very electrically noisy and introduce hum into a guitar rig… which sucks when you’re trying to do recording. Incandescents will have a place for studio work for a while yet.
fasteddie9318
@Mike:
They’re not being banned, are they? The government is imposing energy use and performance standards that current generation incandescents can’t meet. Similarly, somebody’s 1971 Dodge Phoenix isn’t inherently dangerous, but I don’t want Dodge selling new ones at 10 MPH highway and fucking up the world I’m trying to live in.
Monala
They make special CFL’s for many of the specific types of lights people have named here: dimmers, chandaliers, etc. However, they’re not always available at places like drug stores and supermarkets (and they’re more expensive that then basic spiral CFL). I’d check a Home Depot or Lowe’s for the full range of bulbs available–and btw, you can usually recycle CFL’s at Home Depot and Lowe’s, too.
goblue72
@Mike: Bwwhat!!?!?! Measured thinking – get out of here!
But in seriousness, that would be a great way to go – sort of a carbon tax for light bulbs. Unfortunately, in our deranged, sociopathic society, anything with the word “tax” in it is associated with things like strangling puppies and kicking old ladies down the street. So, instead of a system that attempt to closer align cost externalities with behavior incentives, we are forced to go to Plan B: the ban hammer.
Monala
@PurpleGirl: Orlando, FL and Pawtucket, RI are a tie in my book for the worst tasting tap water ever!
Josie
@MagicPanda: @Yutsano:
I commented yesterday about the fact that he equated Medicare with welfare. It enraged me so much I had trouble spelling everything correctly. I think the Dems are missing a bet if they don’t use that quote in a number of ads aimed at seniors like me who earned that insurance and don’t think of it as welfare.
Edit: Here is the link from TPM
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/ryan-defends-medicare-privatization-as-strengthening-welfare-for-those-who-need-it.php
negative 1
@Frankensteinbeck (The ex-Uloborus): So much more electricity that I didn’t have to worry about blowing switches in my 150 yr. old apartment when I first switched to them. Pretty much the entire apartment could be illuminated and the electricity was comparable to a handful of lamps with incandescents. It is a huge boon if you live in an old building.
gex
@JGabriel: ADHD
Benjamin Cisco
In the last town I lived in, the power co-op provided a box of them – a “starter kit” that served to replace every bulb I had in the house. No problem with the bulbs, and no problem with the mandate either. Energy efficiency serves the greater good, and to the extent that said greater efficiency might one day serve to prevent or at least delay America’s next great adventure in search of oil that will supposedly “pay for the costs of the invasion”, I’m all for it.
Crusty Dem
Ok, sorry for not reading all 150-some-odd posts before asking, but am I the only one who has terrible problems with CFLs not lasting? My house is 105 years old and CFLs blow out faster than incandescents, is it just me? HELP!!!
@RobertB: It’s not just me!! I’m not crazy (at least not in this one limited case).
JGabriel
@ChrisS:
Pretty much, it’s unfiltered, but lightly treated with flouride chlorine, and phosphoric acid — none of it in strong enough quantities to taste it. And you’re right: it’s from the Catskills, not the Adirondacks. Thanks for the correction.
.
FlipYrWhig
I like the truer color spectrum of lead paint! Get your Big Gummint outta my paint can! Consumers should have a choice! Also, asbestos!
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
Compact fluorescents don’t last forever–in fact, I’ve never had one last as long as the claim written on packaging they came in. (Few have lasted longer than 2-3 years in my home.)
But they definitely burn shit-tons less energy. And Home Depot will accept the burned out ones for proper disposal/raw materials reclamation.
The bigger problem now is using less electricity, so CFLs are a great stop-gap until we can find a better source for power. Don’t outlaw incandescent bulbs. Make incandescents available, but tax the bejesus out of them to offset the increased greenhouse gas emission created to power them. At $10 for 10 watts
bemused
@gex:
Conservatives still in their terrible twos. Funny but true of many, particularly tea party folk. Other conservatives just plain hate and panic over any kind of change. Not very adaptable people.
Two founding fathers who loved innovations, Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin would have been the first on the block to get CFL’s.
Gregory
@James Joyner:
Fixed that for you there, James.
Mart
Late in and did not read whole thread. Wanted to point out efficient bulbs was signed into law by Bush. Not just CFL’s, but aimed at improving efficiency of all bulb types.
Also too, cut my non-summertime power bill in half.
dollared
@Crusty Dem: no, same problem, although I compound it with using them in ceiling can fixtures (some day I will shoot the architect who thought “lighting design” meant “put 15 cans in my kitchen ceiling.”)
Still is worth it to save 70% on my light bill.
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
@trollhattan:
Or, “lunch,” as most wingers used to refer to it when they were kids…
Roger Moore
@Crusty Dem:
No, you’re not the only one. Dirty power can cause problems for the ballasts in CFLs. If your house is still on its original wiring and and old distribution panel, you may have problems with other things in the house causing power spikes and dips that kill the CFLs. If you’ve wanted an excuse to upgrade your electrical system, this is a good one.
gex
@scav: These kinds of claims don’t need sources. Other than God, that is.
@Mike: In our political climate, banning is a lot easier to do than taxing. Sadly. The people who hate the ban would be even more upset by a tax.
Juicetard (FKA Liberty60)
Re:the original post-
Its part of the bizarre logic of the Right-
Allowing government to tap our phones, read our email, throw people in jail without trial, hell even execute people summarily without any court review is proper and just and a wise use of the Constitution.
Allowing the government to ban lightbulbs, well, thats just liberal fascism.
Brachiator
@PurpleGirl:
Some minerals in water are good for you. There’s a distinction between varieties of drinking water and distilled water, which has all minerals removed.
Obviously there could be other issues with Florida water, or issues with specific minerals and unhealthy concentrations.
Kirbster
Many wingnuts seem to have some form of oppositional-defiant disorder relating to anything favored by anyone not of their tribe. Can you imagine what would happen if Barack and Michelle Obama did a series of public service safety announcements where they, for instance, urged people to not mix chlorine bleach with ammonia-based cleaners in poorly ventilated areas? It’d be a damned wingnut holocaust!
ChrisS
I bought two LED light bars for task lighting for a desk I built in a knee-wall alcove. They were $80 each (Utilitech 5-light LED bar). But. They’re dimmable, connectable, and provide so much goddamn perfect white light that I’m still amazed. I use them occasionally, a few nights a week for work at home and fly-tying. The light is so sufficient, I gave up my CFL task light entirely. Plus I don’t feel like I’m in an easy bake oven. I’m not sure how much power they use exactly (maybe someone could help me here), but the max fixture wattage is 7.5 and it’s rated for 50,000 hours (or based on 4 hours per day for 5 days a week, about 6 years).
cckids
@kdaug:
Here in S. NV, our water has a distinct smell & taste of chlorine, kind of like drinking out of the swimming pool. One professional “taster” called it ‘chunky’. We also have one of the highest rates of kidney stones/disease in the US. Plus rocket fuel from dumping. We use a filter.
JGabriel
@PurpleGirl:
Not filtered, just treated.
.
Crusty Dem
@Roger Moore:
Uh, no thanks. And I just got some new wiring and my ceiling cans (incandescent) are blowing out like crazy, too. I almost went with LEDs but the idea of spending an extra $100+ per can (which aren’t even really the specialty part) was pretty fucking offensive. I figured I’d be going with LED bulbs in 3-5 yrs anyway, though I’ll happily drop coin sooner if they’re available/decent. I do have a few LEDs undercabinet and they’re fantastic, though I may have to change them in ~25 yrs. CFLs are definitely a short-term problem, LEDs are the answer…
gex
@Kirbster: All kinds of win.
Mart
@dollared: I had the problem with cans and CFLs burning out – fixed by raising insulation clearance over them and/or drilling air circulation holes. Seems fixed OK. (Nobody but me knows about the holes.)
Triassic Sands
At the risk of repeating what someone above may have said —
1. CFLs are best when used in applications where the light is turned on and remains on for an extended period of time.
2. They may fail after a very short time if used in fixtures that are turned on and then off after a short time, i.e., most of the lighting in my home.
3. CFLs are much more expensive than incandescent bulbs and if they fail early become a very bad deal economically and environmentally.
4. CFLs contain mercury. They must be discarded properly and should not be tossed in regular household garbage. Where I live there is no cost effective disposal service, which means another few dollars is added to the cost of each bulb making them an even worse deal economically.
5. I switched completely to CFLs years ago, but gradually I’ve switched back to incandescents in applications that are inappropriate for CFLs.
6. LEDs seem like a much better long term solution. I eagerly await their availability for common lighting needs (at an affordable price).
7. There seems to be a wide range in quality of CFLs. Cheap ones may seem like a good deal, but I’ve had even more trouble with them failing early.
catclub
@gex: because you can?
Same answer to question of why a dog licks his balls.
bemused
@Kirbster:
That’s hysterically funny.
Comrade Mary
@Roger Moore: Aha — thanks!
trollhattan
@Crusty Dem:
Yeah, it has been discussed upthread but to reiterate, big voltage swings can do this (and are hard on all your electrical stuff, not just bulbs). It’s possible your service is inadequate (how many amps?). Secondarily, your wiring or switches or fixtures could be defective.
I’d probably start by plugging in a voltage meter and watching for spikes and dips over several days, on different circuits. It should remain steady, within a volt or two. When big items (fridge, oven, A/C, electric heaters, etc.) switch on and off you may see variations, which indicates problems. It can also be your electric utility, who are responsible for everything up to your meter. We once had problems when rats ate into the 220V wires leading from the transformer.
Detective work!
Comrade Luke
I’m still on kerosene lamps. Work fine.
BTW, in all seriousness, there’s one issue I have with CLFs: I have a couple of lamps where the lamp shade clamps directly onto the bulb. That won’t work with CFLs due to their pigtail shape.
OH! And the bulbs in hanging lamps, where you have to use one of those plunger things to replace them. Don’t know how that’s gonna work either.
Failure, Inc.
Went straight to LEDs as the wife hates the color peaks of CFLs – and she can DEFINITELY tell the difference. We have a couple of incandescents left for candelabras and such, but the LEDs use about a third of the power of CFLs and look much better.
Yes, they are expensive. It cost a couple hundred bucks to do the house.
ChrisS
@Brachiator:
Piggy backing on that, a lot of odd-tasting water can be mitigated by just filling a jug and letting it sit in the refrigerator for a day or two. Added bonus, the extra liquid mass(beer also works in this case) in the fridge increases the thermal inertia so that you use less energy keeping a bunch of air cold .
bemused
I need to choose lighting for under top kitchen cabinets. Any CFL recommendations for that area or maybe that has already been answered in this long comment section.
4tehlulz
First, they came for the CFCs.
And I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a CFC.
Then, they came for the CRTs.
And I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a CRT.
Then, they came for the light bulbs.
And I didn’t speak out because I wasn’t a light bulb.
Then they came for me.
And there was no one left to speak out for me.
trollhattan
@bemused:
Couple of folks have mentioned LED strips. I’d think those would be perfect!
Villago Delenda Est
@scav:
Frankly, I’m far more concerned about the effects of the automobile on the economy…the displacement of blacksmiths, the erosion of the horse shoe market, the unemployment of the horse manure removal people in the city, the obsolescence of the buggy whip, etc.
Dr. Psycho
@Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods: Alas, not true: most of the kids who were exposed to lead-paint chips were working-class minorities. Republicans were more likely to be owners of leaded-paint companies or of slum housing.
Older
Why I don’t like fluorescent bulbs:
1. They are made in China (you know, home of exacting safety standards and all).
2. It’s illegal to throw them away. We had a grandson staying with us recently (technically adult, but an honorary teenager) — he broke one and threw it in the closet. Or maybe he broke it by throwing it in the closet. Anyway, after he left, I had to sweep it up and throw it away. Which brings me to #3:
3. They come with dire warnings about how to handle the situation if god forbid one should get broken. You’d need the hazmat team. In this town we are expected to store them “responsibly” and bring them to the annual hazardous waste collection event.
4. I don’t know about the current generation of fluorescents, but about ten years ago, I replaced a whole lot of fixtures with fluorescent ones. The bulbs did not last very long at all, and turned out to be some odd size not carried locally, so we aren’t using them anymore. But their short life was very noticeable to people who had always used incandescents before.
5. I used to work where there were fluorescent tubes over my desk. The desk was metal, and I could feel it vibrating. Fortunately, the ones we installed (that didn’t last long) didn’t have that effect. But then, we don’t have metal furniture.
I have bought a lot of incandescent bulbs, which I am saving for when I can no longer buy them, but I don’t expect it will be a lifetime supply. I’m hoping the LED bulbs will become more available, and more improved, before I run out.
Comrade Luke
BTW, given where John lives and all the fracking that’s going on in that area, I fully support him drinking filtered water.
cckids
@ruemara:
I realized how indoctrinated my kids were to the filtered water one day when we were watching some hospital drama & the patient asked for a drink. The nurse took his glass, filled it at the sink & returned it. My daughter exclaimed in horror “did she just give him tap water?” You’d have thought it was dipped out of the toilet. Had to explain, that in many places, you can actually drink tap water & like it.
JGabriel
@Kirbster:
The very thought of it brings smile to my face.
.
Crusty Dem
@trollhattan:
Frankly, I don’t have the time or energy to think that hard about it. I’ll just keep looking for LEDs. I know it’ll happen, I just would like it to be sooner rather than later..
ETA: not ready to buy 20 of these.
ETA: not ready to buy 20 of these.
JGabriel
@gex: Heh.
Roger Moore
@bemused:
You might want to get the old fashioned, long skinny fluorescents for under cabinet lighting. They’re shaped better for the application, and there are lots of lights designed just for putting under cabinets that use them.
trollhattan
@Comrade Luke:
No kidding, I sure would! His next potential problem–exploding watermelons.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-13421374
stuckinred
@Roger Moore: IKEA has em pretty cheap.
Amanda in the South Bay
@Svensker:
Which is why I use a daily flouride mouth wash. Best long term dental investment I’ve ever made.
Jewish Steel
@boatboy_srq: You know, I think it was LEDs that I heard that information about and not halogen.
But I hope you allow me to continue to be your source for poorly remembered, semi-scientific information.
Comrade Luke
@Martin:
Oh man, just saw this. Now I won’t have to replace my lamp shade :)
bemused
@trollhattan:
I thought the same. Gotta do some research on that.
trollhattan
@Crusty Dem:
I understand. Our house is circa 1928 and we’ve improved the electrics incrementally, over many years. You just don’t do it in one swoop (unpossible, and expensive). What you’re experiencing is pretty dramatic, so there could be a real hidden hazard. I’ll suggest at least having it checked for safety, if nothing else.
srv
Paul Ryan’s Shared Scarcity versus Renewed Prosperity
WHAT THE FUCK is he talking about?
h/t kthug
cckids
@Alan in SF: Holy crap, seriously? I cannot be the only person here pushing 50 who was given little blobs of mercury to play with in grade school science class, can I? We thought it was great fun. Not dead yet!
kc
@James Joyner:
they suck at dimming and I’ve got dozens of recessed lights on dimmers in my home. They’re also not great at high wattage for reading lamps and haven’t quite come up to standard in terms of light quality (the color issue, whatever the technical name is).
And, yes, there’s some generic resentment over government regulations that make our lives less convenient in routine ways. Low flow toilets and showers being the other commonly cited examples.
All of that, plus they don’t work with clip-on shades, and more significantly they’re a genuine pain to dispose of, if you do it right, which most people probably don’t. That said, I do use them- just not everywhere.
Cheryl from Maryland
George Will is probably also having the vapors over the demise of the Victrola.
RobertB
@CrustyDem – yes, I feel your pain. Something at my place definitely lets the smoke out of them ahead of schedule. Probably dirty power, as I’ve seen suggested upthread. I don’t know what that bodes for LED bulb lifetimes.
ChrisS
@trollhattan:
Yes, or even LED pucks. The bars are more expensive, but they hardly use an electricity at all.
kc
Well, I sure screwed up that quote. It’s because I cant see to type, with these #*&@ CFLSs!
J.D. Rhoades
@RobertB:
I have the same problem.
sparky
can’t agree with the “lightly treated” chlorination remark above. there are plenty of chlorination byproducts in city water. fill a large pot with NYC tap water and take a sniff.
for more information, see the EWG water database.
as for the infrastructure, there are plenty of old water mains still in use in NYC and elsewhere, with who-knows-what wearing away into the water supply.
gex
@cckids: So they’ve won. The idea of drinkable water going to our buildings is considered a surprise rather than the goal. The only thing a human has a right to is to make someone rich if they want their basic needs met.
Sad thing is, the EPA standards for safe drinking water (found in your tap) are higher than the FDA’s (found in that fancy bottled water). They can sell you more e coli per oz. under the FDA’s standards.
kc
@Lurking Canadian:
Do people actually do that? They’re not sticking it to the left, of course, they’re sticking it to their own offspring.
Nellie
Can we begin to think of the whole life of a product? What happens to the mercury in them after they are no longer needed?
j
@Brachiator: That “spinach has 10 times more iron than anything else” myth was the result of a mathematics error.
After WWI the War Department did a study to find out what the most nutritious and easily attained foods were for the troops in the field. They got a list of local veggies for almost every place where the US Army may have to fight the next war, and spinach was one of the things that was grown pretty much everywhere.
So they did tests on all the locally grown items to check for nutrition and mineral content and spinach came out at a 10X level.
It wasn’t until the 1980s that some inquisitive mind said “WHY?”.
It turns out that when they were figuring the values, there was a misplaced decimal point in the spinach charts; hence the “ten times…” myth.
AS it turns out, kale and most types of greens (collard, mustard, turnip, etc.) have more nutritional value than spinach.
Math, it’s for nerds.
Martin
@kc:
They make standard format CFLs that take clip-on harps. They aren’t all the spiraly kind. I think any Home Depot or Lowes will take your dead CFLs. Here in CA it’s mandated that places that sell CFLs accept them for recycling.
I’m surprised so many people have mentioned their CFLs dying quickly. We started putting them in our house 8 years ago and have yet to have a single one burn out. It’s noticeable enough that I put the tub of spare bulbs from an easily accessible spot to a shelf in the back of the closet that you have to dig to get to. The only reason we go in it is to add free bulbs that we pick up here and there.
Martin
@Nic:
So, any time someone flushes a toilet, the police have probable cause to kick in the door?
Comrade Darkness
The problem with CFLs (and I don’t mind them otherwise, the whole house is full of them) is they have circuitry in them. Lots of other switches and controllers also have circuitry in them. It is a bad idea to simply wire to random circuits together, all kinds of feedback loops form. So on our dimmers the CFLs make the make the dimmer buzz loudly and annoyingly and on the motion detector circuit the CFL bulb hums and gets hot. So we have incandescents on those. I, personally, need to have a choice in bulbs, or switch makers seriously need to get their shit together and isolate the circuits better.
Lol
I bought the expensive CFL dimmables for my living room and ultimately had to go back to the incandescents. The lights produce a high-pitched whine and the breaker box produces a buzzing noise whenever they’re on. Not about to drop $60 to find a set that will actually work with whatevr the wiring in my living room is.
Rest of the house has normal CFLs though.
Hunter Gathers
Switched to CFL’s years ago and honestly don’t remember the last time I had to change one. What I find to be the funniest thing about the conservatard caterwauling about all this is that their hero, C+ Augustus, the man who killed Bin Laden with his bare hands, was the one who signed the bill that is causing all this bitching into law in the first place. Or perhaps Obama used his secret IslamoFascistBlackPanther powers to travel back in time and held Bush at gunpoint, forcing him to sign it against his will. Also, too.
Crusty Dem
@trollhattan:
If I were to guess, I’d say the problem is old switches (for the CFLs), but the new cans are a concern. Thanks for the suggestion, I’ll look into it.
@RobertB: I think the LEDs are neigh-indestructable. But I’ll be finding out…
bemused
@ChrisS:
The pucks are more what I had in mind for under cabinets than bars. I like the look of pucks vs a bar.
Cat Lady
@srv:
Don’t interrupt him, he’s busy digging the GOPs grave.
Comrade Darkness
@Martin: We have a serious death rate too, although I’d estimate it’s about half traditional bulbs. Just a week ago, I had a misbehaving one (flickering). When I pulled it from the fixture the base of bulb was hot as f*ck. My fault just reaching in, but I’m used to those kind being colder because thats where the energy savings is, i.e., not wasting it on heat.
Comrade Darkness
@Roger Moore: Just make sure the bulbs are mercury amalgam, which is much less biologically accessible. This IS the kitchen you are talking about. Breaking one of those long bulbs in the kitchen would kinda suck.
Walker
@dollared:
These mythical instant on types that people talk about are not sold in my area. They sell only the same things I have always had problems with.
Poopyman
@ChrisS: Lowe’s gives all sorts of juicy specs on those bars, but leaves off a minor point, like how long it is? Can you give a SWAG?
What CFLs I have I plan on upgrading to LEDs as soon as practicable. The 400+ watts of incandescents in the kitchen will be replaced with LEDS this summer, if I can decide on a decent bulb.
On flickering: I bought some Festivus LED strings, and I easily see their flicker. Anybody else see this? And do other LEDs have a cure for this?
Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods
@trollhattan:
Bicycle lights are at the vanguard of this movement–my headlight, a Dinotte, puts out >200 lumens, which is enough to drive motorists bonkers. Best of all, it the light, four AA batteries, and lighting harness weigh >200g.
dollared
@Walker:@Walker: Not mythical, and you have no Home Depots, Lowe’s, Targets, or WalMarts in your area? You are truly blessed.
ChrisS
@Poopyman:
Lowe’s gives all sorts of juicy specs on those bars, but leaves off a minor point, like how long it is? Can you give a SWAG?
IIRC, the 5-light bar is about 18″. The ones I bought weren’t hard-wireable, I don’t think, but they do link and the dimmer is quit nice.
I used two to span a 7’x3′ desk alcove and fill it with light. And the light is plenty.
Roger Moore
@Walker:
Amazon, dude, Amazon.
Poopyman
@ChrisS: Thanks!
yoodow
I know most of you don’t like things made in China, but how about this for a cost effective alternative: https://www.dealextreme.com/p/e27-4w-360-lumen-3500k-warm-white-lamp-bulb-110-260v-54676
drkrick
@Citizen_X: IOW, not only “drink when you’re thirsty,” but also, “drink when you’re stupid.”
Failure, Inc.
@Crusty Dem: They are not, but they are much harder to kill than CFLs. But if you’ve got dirty/surgy power, all bets are off, as the least likely thing to get killed is an incandescent – they can stand enormous voltage swings.
trollhattan
@Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods:
Whoa, you must set stuff on fire with that thing. I use a NiteRider that’s pretty bright. When I’m downtown and can navigate by streetlight I use it on flash mode, which has to be annoying but damnit, they can see me! (I try not to tilt it up, at least.)
I overshoot it in the pitch dark, though, at about 15 mph. Need. More. Light!
Martin
@dollared: Well, let’s be clear here. If you live in CA (or a comparable state), you’ll have the run of every CFL and LED bulb out there because the rebates make them cheaper than incandescents. If you live in Alabama, forget it – you’ll only get the shittier bulbs and not much selection. Our local Lowes has a whole range of LED can lights. My dad in Oregon has never even seen one.
Failure, Inc.
@yoodow: Point taken. The LED bulbs I bought that were made in China (Home Depot EcoSmart brand) were 17 bucks each. The Sylvania (which I needed for two fixtures because it has a less-directional coverage pattern) was made here and cost 40 bucks.
EDIT: Ahhh, you edited. It was originally funnier with no link. Even if the claim of 360 lumens is true, that is not nearly enough. You need about 500 to be equivalent to a decent 40 watt bulb, about 700 for a 60.
Ruckus
@WereBear:
I wonder if the brain loses its ability or what… or if they were always PITAs and only have so many cycles of change in the first place.
As a getting close to being an old, old fart I can give you a clue. We have to work a little harder at everything, change included and actually have less energy, so something has to go. And I resemble that remark about being/always been a PITA.
Poopyman
@Martin: Yeah, my impression is that the can form factors (eg R30) are the first to be widely available. Dunno whether they’ll make it to HD or Lowe’s before I pull the trigger online.
Martin
@trollhattan: I use a couple of 4Sevens flashlights. 180 lumens. Get some handlebar mounts and a helmet mount, the red filter pack and 90 degree prism, and you can do pretty much anything you want. Set one pointing back with a red filter on strobe, on a trail put 2 lighting the ground at different distances and one on your helmet, etc. Stuff a small pack of rechargeables in your bag and you’re good for the day. Plus you have some really damn nice flashlights to use when you’re not on the bike.
Marmot
@James Joyner:
Y’know, that’s not reflected in what you actually wrote in your blog post:
Incandescents have color problems, there’s a new dimmable CFL on the market, and they come in super-bright floodlight flavor. Looks more like Joyner resents the apparent paternalism, damn the cost savings.
drkrick
Of course not. Every time the police SAY they heard someone flushing a toilet, they have probable cause to kick in the door.
trollhattan
@Martin:
Thanks for the tip. I may add a helmet light to what I’ve got (stem mount) because I find sometimes I need to see around a bend while the light’s still aimed straight ahead. I’ve had a few close calls avec Pepé Le Pew. =:0
goblue72
@Martin: If the other 49 states copied California, the nation’s per capita energy use would be 10% below 1990 levels.
slag
There are new CFL dimmer switches available: http://www.lutron.com/Education-Training/LCE/Pages/DimmingCFLsandLEDs.aspx. Whether they work as advertised and are long-lasting is anybody’s guess. Personally, I’d rather know they’re going to do the job before I go through the expense, effort, and resources of replacing all my dimmer switches. Tossing a bunch of lightly used electronics into the nearest dumpster doesn’t strike me as particularly eco-friendly.
Brachiator
@j:
Possibly, but the plot thickens on this point, especially as it relates to Popeye cartoons (Spinach, Popeye and the myth).
Turns out, for example, that an early Popeye cartoon has the sailor praising spinach because of Vitamin A, not iron.
Svensker
: @Brachiator:
Absolutely. My NJ adopto-doggie loves her some water right outta the hose — MUCH more delish than water from the hose into her water dish.
MaximusNYC
The color and quality differences in the light from incandescents are quite apparent to me, and I don’t think that’s just because of my cinematography training. CFLs also have various practical disadvantages amply described by others in this thread.
On the whole, the changeover is a good thing. But I too would have preferred that it be encouraged via high taxes on incandescents rather than total bans. Incandescents do have certain specialized applications that CFLs and even LEDs don’t precisely replicate. Those who want to pay, say, a 500% or even 1000% tax for a handful of incandescents should be able to.
Also, the transition has been fumbled by manufacturers and retailers who sold inferior CFLs, and who failed to educate the public on color differences.
magurakurins’ apparent colorblindness (and scorn for the non-colorblind) notwithstanding, many, if not most, of us find the color differences between incandescents and CFLs thuddingly obvious.
I’ve been able to satisfactorily replace about 80% of the bulbs in my home with “soft white” CFLs. I particularly like the ones with a protective casing (in the shape of a traditional bulb) around the light coil.
But I haven’t yet found any that have a fast enough warmup time to work in the bathroom or in certain other places. Anyone have any recommendations for particular brands of fast-onw bulbs?
WereBear
@Ruckus: I hear that: partner & I had to get reading glasses in the last few years, and now we have them salted all over the house. It’s quite annoying… and I imagine this kind of thing only adds up as time goes on.
But as my own dad was fond of saying, Better than the alternative.
gene108
I do wonder, if the improper disposal of CFL’s will be worth the energy savings.
I doubt most folks will haul their old bulbs to Home Depot or whoever recycles them.
They’ll dump them in the trash and the mercury will be seeping into landfills.
singfoom
Supposedly this is the best LED light out there. CCrane Geobulb 3
Gonna buy a couple of them and test them out. Anyone else already using one?
Redshirt
Damn! Finally a thread where I know what I’m talking about, for real. And I missed it, mostly.
To wit: LED’s are the future of all lighting. Just a matter of time. If you buy now, you’ll pay quite a bit more than CFL’s, but that price is coming down all the time.
All the big lighting companies – GE, Osram, Philips, etc – are making the switch to LED’s aggressively now. Only a matter of time before the tech is the default lighting source.
But then all kinds of new doors will open, as there’s so much more you can do with an LED than any other light, since it’s digital, can have an IP address, and can talk to other IP’s. Sky’s the limit.
Woodrowfan
I just don’t think it’s anybody’s business what light bulbs I use.
And I do use CFLs in most of the lights in my home, and have never had one burn out. I also look forward to LEDs. But there are a few places (like the bathroom, and the kitchen stove top) when the old-fashioned bulbs still work best for me.
John Weiss
@Irving: Those swirly lights come in a variety of color temperatures. Or, you could go by your local theatrical supply and buy some gels of the appropriate color.
Ruckus
@WereBear:
No one has revoked my breathing permit. Yet.
The problem with reading glasses is that they get lonely. So they end up having these little trysts all over the place and I find them all together in a pile.
j
@Brachiator: Thanks. I got MY faulty info from some John Stossel special on ABC called “Junk Science”, (I think that was the title, it may have been only his tag line for that special.)
So Stossel was guilty of “junk reporting”. (I know…libertarians…)
Woodrowfan
@cckids:
yep. me too, (and I’m a tad past 50). “Quicksilver”
And I still have a mercury thermometer in my medicine closet….
Woodrowfan
and that, boys and girls, is where we get contact lenses..
Ruckus
@Woodrowfan:
I always have to play the straight man.
ETA and you’re welcome
Redshirt
@John Weiss: So there’s a good example of where LED’s are making big inroads – theatre and other stage performances. The company I just left has provided the lighting to several big time shows and productions – Radiohead tour, for example. It makes all the sense in the world – first, no moving parts, no gels, in order to produce color. 2 – compatible with previous lighting control boards; 3. way, way, way less heat, which is a big deal on stage. 4. Way, way more flexible/creative. You can create any color/show/pattern you want. Gels are limited in mechanical ways, at the least.
Go to Vegas, and most of the casinos have moved to LED (from NEON). Resistance, as they say, is futile.
lovable liberal
I’m not happy with the promised CFL lifetimes. I’ve replaced mine frequently, to the point that I’m not buying them any more. LEDs should be much more robust since they’re solid state.
gnomedad
M@Redshirt:
Me, too. Dammit!
The Philips A19 LED bulb totally rocks. Still pricey, but the first no-apologies 60W replacement. If duplicating incandescent color is your thing, I defy you to tell the difference. Dimmable, too. And, no, I have no connection to Philips.
Chet
Agreed with others that the anti-CFL pushback is primarily a tribal, DFH-punching thing.
If Christian Lander ever launches the spinoff blog “Stuff the Wrong Kind of White People Like”, I fully expect Incandescent Light Bulbs to be among the featured items.
birthmarker
@Brachiator:
Your big thing or your mother’s big thing?
Brachiator
@j:
Yeah. I used to respect Stossel until it became clear that he was a shill for blind, ideologically driven libertarianism, not a reporter fairly examining various issues.
And even though I am not religious at all, Stossel was party to one of the most reprehensible sliming of a minister in journalistic history, a case which was only recently finally resolved.
To be fair, the network did run retractions, but the initial error wasn’t just sloppy, it was malicious and the producers and Stossel didn’t care about getting it right because it appeared that they had such a juicy quote to work with.
Alan in SF
@cckids: I’m old enough to have played with mercury in school too, as well as growing up in a time when everyone smoked and toxics in the environment were considered jolly good fun. I can’t quantify how dumb I am compared to how less dumb I might have been, but on a macro level one can’t look at our politics today and not conclude that massive deterioration of brain function has occurred.
birthmarker
@dollared: My new house has about 6 recessed lights, and I look at them and think, yeah, that’s enough…
Crusty Dem
@yoodow:
No. I used Dealextreme.com – they’re a terrible business (6-12 week wait, 4th rate products, etc). I bought some LED lights through them before xmas, they arrived in ~March and were terrible, about as bright as a candle.
Cliff in NH
@trollhattan:
@trollhattan:
I use a Princeton Tec Apex Extreme headlamp for biking its 200 regulated lumens on the brightest setting and its bright enough to ride fast in the woods in the rain.
Crusty Dem
@gnomedad:
You’ve sold me, I’m buying a couple for my “difficult” areas, we’ll see how they look/hold up.
gwangung
@Brachiator:
Huh. One of Breithbart’s tutors?
Brachiator
@birthmarker:
This was a big deal assertion of childhood pseudo-independence. If you went inside, there were cookies, soda and (also great on a cold day, grapes). And milk. Cold glasses of milk. Mothers would always try to tempt you inside, didn’t matter how hot and sweaty you were, especially as young kids.
But the thing was to see how long you go just staying outside. An acceptable pit stop would be a bathroom break.
CatHairEverywhere
I can’t remember if I’ve posted about this water pitcher before, but I love it. Much more interesting than plain water, and better than just floating fruit in the water. http://www.amazon.com/Prodyne-Infusion-93-Ounce-Natural-Pitcher/dp/B0023UL86A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=home-garden&qid=1305669275&sr=1-1
Chuck Butcher
Well, as much as I hate it, I’ll be a hoarder of incandescents. I will not try to tolerate the headaches and focus issues involved with those flickering bastards until LEDs make it. I cannot read for more than a few minutes in flourescent lighting and exposure for an hour produces a pounding headache – and I almost never get headaches otherwise. Grocery stores and others with flourescents drive me out pretty quickly.
What gets truly bizzare is when the flicker is out of phase between light sources thanks to circuitry distance – yikes.
I have an LED tail light on my Harley – a thing of magic, that amount of light would melt the plastic lense with an incandescent. Harley is offering plug in turn signals and head lights in LED. If I hadn’t just put a PIIA headlight (way not cheap) in I’d opt for one of those.
Chuck Butcher
@Brachiator:
Not unless it involved sitting down…
gnomedad
@Crusty Dem:
Cool; post back sometime about how you like them.
Oh, full disclosure, they don’t dim as nicely as an incandescent, but at least they tolerate it. Important for geeks like me who might want to use electronic switching.
Ecks
@gex:
You need to make up your own sticker in the exact same colors and fonts, and stick it right next to that one in the middle of the night, saying:
gnomedad
@Ecks:
I’d go for “I don’t drink paint thinner”.
Ecks
@cckids: Mercury in its elemental form really isn’t that dangerous at all, as your body basically can’t process it. It’s when you dump that mercury into your local river where algae can figure out how to eat it that you have a problem – that fixes it into organic compounds that we CAN metabolize, so when it works its way back up the food chain…
This is why we all heard about mercury poisoning in the form of Minimata disease (i.e., people eating contaminated fish), not from school kids chugging the contents of their busted thermometers.
Walt
I call bull on the long lasting part. Fifteen months ago I bought a dozen curly bulbs, paying too much for them. One by one they’ve all burnt out, and I just replaced the last one two days ago. Several of the incandescent bulbs I didn’t replace with curlies are still going. And don’t try to tell me there’s something wrong with the kind of electricity I’m feeding them.
Ecks
@Walt: Incandescents are more tolerant of voltage fluctuations. We have really old wiring in our house, and I think both kinds of bulbs last about equally long for us.
JGabriel
@Redshirt:
You mean, I can finger my lamp to turn it on? That sounds dirty.
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Jay C
I find it odd that so many commenters have had CF bulbs burn out “quickly” on them: I started “converting” to CF by using them in a couple of places where the light was on all the time (a basement, e.g.) and I found that their life ratings (8000 hours, = about 10 months) to be spot-on. Maybe it has something to do with not cycling on and off: but I have yet to change a CF “before its time”.
That said, they’re far from perfect: there are a lot of applications where a good old-fashioned incandescent works better: but outside of mindless reflexive hippie-punching (whose appeal should never be underestimated in this country) I see no reason not to use CFs/LEDs wherever practical.
But then, I’m not a Republican…
cs
I’ve always voted for Democrats and, for the time being, I’m hoarding incandescents until LEDs are affordable. In my previous house, we used the CF bulbs for the overhead lights and I really grew to hate the sort of light it put out. Never got headaches, but I’m one of the few who could get annoyed at the wrong monitor refresh rate with CRTs, and the CF lights were pretty uncomfortable for me too. And the lifetime of the bulbs were overstated, at least for the particular ones I used to use. In my ‘new’ 120 yr old house with old wiring, there doesn’t seem to be much point in using CF bulbs.
This isn’t a pure left/right issue, even if it is the right who is doing most of the screaming. I would be fine with a tax on incandescents but I’m not happy with an outright ban.
beergoggles
You know, before CFLs became so popular, I installed dimmer switches throughout my house so that I could regulate the illumination and power.
Then there’s this big push to CFLs and they don’t even work with the dimmers; I have to spend about 3 times the cost and get CCFLs which have a fraction of the light output that CFLs do. There’s also the issue that most of my recessed lighting that used halogens on dimmers can’t use CFLs either.
I just can’t cope with having one illumination setting for my indoor lighting and that’s not the gay gene talking.
noodler
@magurakurin: Dude – ease up on the f-bombs all over your posts here, but if that’s the only way you can get your point across woo hoo. Maybe your rods and cones are screwy but yes, there is a difference in the light emitted by cfls and incandescents, and industry is taking care of it, and by Jan it’s all obe anyway when incandescents are taken off the shelves. So you are an early adopter, great, I’m sure there were those that preferred candles to Edison’s contraption too, you know the realistic shadows that a flame casts, but my oh my, you really seem po’d about this. Do you live near fukijima?
Nic
@Martin:
It would appear that the court would think so.. Ludicrous. How was that an 8-1 ruling?! We’re fucked.
Tancrudo
Yup, it’s the dimmers. The problem isn’t just that you can’t dim them, but that the CFLs will not work at all on the dimmed circuits even at constant full illumination. They buzz and hum and will burn out. And what about my 100-year old chandelier? In the trash with that too? And all the sconces that are too narrow for soft-serve bulbs? I use CFLs where I can, which is very few places in my house. So to be green my house needs to be rewired?
I’ve got a couple crates of normal bulbs to last me until LEDs come up to speed.