Why Can’t We All Just Get Along

So there was quite a flare-up last night, as such, I offer you this to make amends:

Stop sending me emails about this shit. I’m on ABL’s side. I don’t care about your hurt feelings.






375 replies
  1. 1
    debit says:

    Hah hah! Wait, I made popcorn for this? I was expecting at least one “Fuck off, assholes.” Wow, disappointed.

  2. 2
    TooManyJens says:

    @debit: Fuck off, asshole.

    (Nah, it’s just not the same when I do it.)

  3. 3
    debit says:

    @TooManyJens: I appreciate the effort, but, no, it’s just not the same.

  4. 4
    Pooh says:

    Cliff notes?

  5. 5
    FFrank says:

    Ed from Gin and Taco’s has something else that will mellow out the issue. dick parade

  6. 6
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    I don’t care about your hurt feelings.

    I think this is less of “choosing sides” thing and more of a “John doesn’t have feelings like normal people” thing.

  7. 7
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Sorry, John, exactly what is it you’re sending to make amends? All I see is a whole lot of white space, no links or pix or nuthin.

  8. 8
    Guster says:

    Now I’m gonna have to go back and see what I missed.

    Did ABL refer people to her blog for comments again? That was laughably weak. But people emailing Cole is even weaker. What kind of person doesn’t understand that crying to daddy is just a declaration of pathetic neediness?

    The comments here are so much better than dkos.

  9. 9
    D. Mason says:

    For my part, I thought the whole thing was brilliant. Start a thread with racist picture in the sake of having a discussion, close discussion, watch heads explode. One internets to you ABL, nice troll.

  10. 10
    Nutella says:

    @Pooh:

    Cliff notes: ABL thread got into discussion of meaning of racism. ABL closed comments. One commenter from closed thread then made stupid remark on completely unrelated AL thread about Ensign. When called on stupidity of Ensign remark, had 27,000 fits about ABL closing unrelated thread.

  11. 11
    Jay in Oregon says:

    I’ve got better things to read; namely, these…

    https://twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23iamaterriblejedi

  12. 12
    Nom de Plume says:

    Stop sending me emails

    I have no idea what you’re talking about, since I missed whatever it was that transpired, but seriously? People send you emails about what goes on in comments? You’re shitting me, right?

  13. 13
    Comrade Javamanphil says:

    @Nutella: Or the shorter: My, there is a lot of lint in my navel.

  14. 14
    Cassidy says:

    Publish by name and mock. We’ve earned this.

  15. 15
    Lawnguylander says:

    I will have a multiple thread spanning meltdown if the emails are not published.

  16. 16

    One thing people don’t grasp is that John is an actual libertarian in the way he runs his stable of co-bloggers. John lets each poster run their own threads as they see fit. Go ahead and obsessively find counterexamples, but off the top of my head I’ve never seen him really intervene.

  17. 17
    Guster says:

    @Nutella: On the Dan Adler weird ad thread? Was it Jewy? I hate to think I missed something Jewy.

  18. 18
    debit says:

    The really offensive part was where johnny stated that he wanted to “shame” ABL. That was a whole world of creepy and wrong and he couldn’t seem to get that.

  19. 19
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @debit:

    The really offensive part was where johnny stated that he wanted to “shame” ABL. That was a whole world of creepy and wrong and he couldn’t seem to get that.

    He should be shamed for that.

  20. 20
    debit says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Wait. Was that irony?

  21. 21
    cyntax says:

    Huh. I didn’t realize emailing Cole about my temper tantrums was an option.

    I think I’m going to send him an email about this.

  22. 22
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @debit:

    Wait. Was that irony?

    I thought yours was?

  23. 23
    Violet says:

    People email Cole about comments? Really? Sheesh.

  24. 24

    You are blind as a bat and I have sight.

    I for one am willing to forgive ABL’s lack of sensitivity. I dream of the day when we, the whites, may see one of our kind become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. Or a representative, US senator. Maybe a respected jurist or, dare I say, president of the United States of America.

    Eyes on the prize, white brothers and sisters.

    Edited for verbosity. You know how we get.

  25. 25
    goblue72 says:

    Is this about that awesome photo of a typical white male Republican voter? If crackers don’t want the butthurt, they should stop acting crackery.

  26. 26
    Josie says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Ebony and Ivory SNL skit

  27. 27
    debit says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I think I broke either my snark or irony meter earlier today, so I’m now uncertain about everything. The only solution now is to drink heavily. Tell my boss I’ll be at the bar.

  28. 28
    Corey says:

    Is this about that awesome photo of a typical white male Republican voter? If crackers don’t want the butthurt, they should stop acting crackery.

    Wait, is this a progressive blog, or Bizarro FreeRepublic?

  29. 29
    Guster says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): I thought you were very articulate.

  30. 30
    ruemara says:

    @goblue72:

    No, no, that was a racist photo. Because…pudge? …mookness? …supermanbigboy spit curl? And ABL uses a blue line that makes people think it’s a link, plus she’s a terrible blogger, plus, thin-skinned. Also, too.

  31. 31
    Guster says:

    @Corey: Is is daytime where you are, or the opposite of night?

  32. 32
    Corey says:

    I know this is the thread where everyone will suck up to the frontpagers and generally circle-jerk about how awesome BJ is and how lame the “haters” are, but ABL is an objectively awful poster. The ridiculous formatting, the 40,000-word screeds about some outrage that the rest of the world has already moved on from, the unfunny pictures that accompany every.single.post, the reflexive Obotism, the Greenwald obsession, the list goes on. This fauxrage over “you people” – very clearly applied to progressive bloggers, not African-Americans – is just the latest.

    Author-specific RSS-feeds, please

  33. 33
    Scott says:

    I’m just amazed that johnny hasn’t already shown up to start butthurting all over everything.

    Can’t you all realize the injustice? The pure, unadulterated, radioactive, poop-filled injustice?!

  34. 34
    salacious crumb says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): ABL sensitive? criticize Obama on something you dont agree with and ABL goes batshit crazy..you are racist “she screams!”..”you have black people!”

    3 years ago, she would have been wildly cheering Glenn Greenwald for his criticism of Bush…but now that he has trained his sights on Obama, he is a loser and racist, according to ABL

    No one shall criticize Dear Leader Obama, in ABL’s world.

  35. 35
    Scott says:

    40,000-word screeds about some outrage

    Why do you think the Internet was invented?

    Go back to Twitter, short-attention-span man.

  36. 36
    Lawnguylander says:

    @Scott:

    Looks like he just changed his name to “Corey” instead.

  37. 37
    salacious crumb says:

    @Corey: AMEN!

  38. 38
    chopper says:

    @Pooh:

    bitches bitched about how their god-given right to comment on someone else’s blog was taken away for one thread, hilarity ensued.

  39. 39
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Nutella: Really? She closed comments again? What a loser. Even Matoko-Chan (or whatever she’s calling herself these days) could do better than that.

  40. 40
    Church Lady says:

    ABL has an unfortunate tendency to pick up her toys and go home (or to her own blog) when challenged. Closing comments? So weak. Chickenshit too.

  41. 41
    WaterGirl says:

    Author-specific RSS-feeds, please

    Second the request for author specific RSS feeds – that would be great!

  42. 42
    Corey says:

    @Scott: If I wanted to read 40,000 words about something, I’d read a book, not a third-rate analysis over how the placement of a comma in statute whatever allows the President to extrajudicially execute Osama Bin Laden, and how this proves Glenn Greenwald is a terrible racist.

  43. 43
    TooManyJens says:

    @salacious crumb:

    3 years ago, she would have been wildly cheering Glenn Greenwald for his criticism of Bush

    [citation needed]

  44. 44
    chopper says:

    @Corey:

    see, i like having ABL around. i think it mixes shit up a bit. if you want a proper debate club go back to high school.

  45. 45

    @Guster: How dare you stereotype me and the generations moneyed English speaking peoples from whom I descend!

    That’s it. I’m writing Cole.

    @salacious crumb: Reading for tone. It’s a skill. Your enjoyment of this space will be enhanced when you acquire it.

  46. 46
    MonkeyBoy says:

    I don’t comment much here because like most all comment sites this place attracts lonely people who are so desperate for any interaction they think that mischaracterizing someone or insulting them is a good way to get a response.

  47. 47
    Lawnguylander says:

    Boy, there sure does seem to be a high degree of overlap between concern over black on white racism and Glenn Greenwald fandom/firebaggerism. Must just be a big coincidence.

    @Corey:

    the 40,000-word screeds about some outrage that the rest of the world has already moved on from,

    ABL wrote a post about Bradley Manning? When?

  48. 48
    PS says:

    Yeah, right, ABL is sensitive, if by that you mean that she notices and is hurt by stuff that is going on in the world which some of the folks here apparently do not recognize. No, she is not an “objectively awful poster” though that does not mean that you cannot subjectively dislike her posts. In which case, frevvinsake, don’t read them.

  49. 49
    Chyron HR says:

    @salacious crumb:

    3 years ago, she would have been wildly cheering Glenn Greenwald for his criticism of Bush

    Am I the only one who seriously never heard of GG before he started showing up in the comments here to bitch people out for worshipping “dear leader”?

  50. 50
    D-Chance. says:

    Someone CLOSES COMMENTS on Balloon Juice?

    Wow, this joint has gone on the decline…

  51. 51
    Yutsano says:

    @Corey: Your privilege, it is white. And feel free to parse that however you wish. It won’t undermine the fact that it’s true.

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): I just want you to know Berkeley Breathed got it covered man.

  52. 52
    Tonybrown74 says:

    @Corey:

    If I wanted to read 40,000 words about something, I’d read a book, not a third-rate analysis over how the placement of a comma in statute whatever allows the President to extrajudicially execute Osama Bin Laden, and how this proves Glenn Greenwald is a terrible racist.

    And yet you will read through 40,000 words in a thread with hundreds of comments in order to troll a blog …

    Irony, it sure be dead …

  53. 53
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Corey: Don’t read her posts. Easy.

  54. 54
    Cat Lady says:

    The best part of that thread last night was the link back to the epic Balloon Boy thread which is how every BJ threadjack should be judged from now on. That ABL thread was just sad, not funny, and johnny walker didn’t accuse anyone of condensation so the BJ thread was BB -3.

    Speaking of which, Balloon Boy and Michael Gass should have their own lexicon entries for teh lulz.

  55. 55
    cyntax says:

    @Corey:
    So just don’t read her posts.

    The request for author-specific RSS feeds seems weird; it’s like you don’t want to be aware of her presence on the blog.

  56. 56
    Corey says:

    @Yutsano: I don’t think you know what “white privilege” means.

  57. 57
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    I’m glad that now that John Cole has spoken, the issue can be referred over to a private (lawyer group) for private prosecution.

    And public shaming! Don’t forget the public shaming.

    Also, this topic has been expelled. I’m confident that you agree with me on this.

  58. 58
    Paula says:

    Angry Black Lady is ANGRY! And BLACK! And a LADEEEEE! Nooooooooooooooooooo, UNCLE COLE, tell her to STOOOOOOOOOOOOOP.

  59. 59
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Corey: Oh, this should be good. What exactly does “white privilege” mean, Corey?

  60. 60
    TooManyJens says:

    @Corey: Could it have anything to do with the ability to view racial issues with a yawn and say “we’ve moved on from that”?

  61. 61
    Nutella says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Expelled? No, it resigned!

  62. 62
    Corey says:

    @TooManyJens: When did I say anything about racial issues? I was referring to the obvious removal of an unfortunately-chosen collective noun (you people) from context.

  63. 63
    Yutsano says:

    @TooManyJens: Oh and here I had put the popcorn maker away. What was I thinking?

    @Just Some Fuckhead: That was pretty epic. I don’t think the poor woman ever truly recovered.

  64. 64
    Chrisd says:

    @TooManyJens:

    3 years ago, she would have been wildly cheering Glenn Greenwald for his criticism of Bush

    [citation needed]

    I agree with you–a citation would be really helpful here.

    I’d also like one where ABL demonstrates that she was critical of GG’s “Greenwaldism” since way before he starting criticizing Obama:

    Yes, I can be a snarky bitch. I’ll go further: I AM a snarky bitch. But it’s not pointless snarky bitchiness. I write these posts for a reason. If you go back to my earliest posts on this subject, they were written when I was just a two-bit blogger at ABLC with about 100 readers.

  65. 65
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Is this the Corey that likes to dress up like an animal and have sex with a similarly attired person? Because that would be pretty fucking funny considering ABL’s accidental FurCon visit.

  66. 66
    TooManyJens says:

    @Corey: This is how you characterized ABL’s posts:

    the 40,000-word screeds about some outrage that the rest of the world has already moved on from

    How often is ABL posting about racial issues? Pretty often. Now, you may be referring to some other topic, but then you might want to get more specific.

  67. 67
    cyntax says:

    @Corey:

    From Wikipedia [emphasis added]:

    In essence, theories of white privilege assert that discourses on racial inequality do not truly discuss differences between white and non-white social status, but only discuss the failure of non-white groups to achieve normal social status, effectively turning race into an issue that does not involve whites. In this sense it is similar to confirmation biases and the fundamental attribution error in social psychology.

    See if she’d just use “normal” formatting and write shorter posts, everything would be fine.

  68. 68
    Yutsano says:

    I also would like to say that the ability of JC to troll his own blog without his commentariat being aware of it is stellar. Well done good sir. Well done indeed.

    @Just Some Fuckhead: You are in full sweet irony mode today. Did you get some last night or something?

  69. 69

    I know this is the thread where everyone will suck up to the frontpagers…

    This is the thread!? Damn! Where are my notes?

    Uh, John! Your solitary life with three animals is so, wait, no, that sounds sad…John, you are perhaps the greatest, no, that’s too suck-uppy…

    A little advance warning on the sycophant threads, would it kill you?

  70. 70
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Yutsano: Wow, you may be the first person to ever link to a future comment.

  71. 71
    Less Popular Tim says:

    @Church Lady:

    I agree, in fact I almost emailed to whine about the comments being closed myself (I see the consensus is that is hilariously weak behavior)–I had never seen that happen before. I actually really liked ABL’s posts overall. On the thread in question, she already promised she was not going to comment here anymore (a bummer, honestly, but okay), but then she came back and made sure no one else could comment either.

    I know, their-house-their-rules/start-your-own-blog-if-you-want-to-exercise-your-first-amendment-rights/&c….

    But it does frustrate user expectations. And it seems to be the type of thing that we people are always ripping on RedState or whoever for.

    Thanks to all for your participation and I appreciate the opportunity to read and post.

  72. 72
    Lawnguylander says:

    @salacious crumb:

    3 years ago, she would have been wildly cheering Glenn Greenwald for his criticism of Bush…but now that he has trained his sights on Obama, he is a loser and racist, according to ABL

    I have no more of an idea what she thought about Greenwald back in the day than you do, but I bet that his Ron Paul advocacy in 2007 would have been enough to put him off her for good if she’d been paying attention.

  73. 73
    Corey says:

    @TooManyJens: Since I specifically mentioned her posts about Greenwald and her obsessive Obotism, you could maybe infer that that was in fact what I was writing about, instead of calling me a racist.

    @cyntax: First, you have no clue what my racial background is. Second, are you suggesting that um, unorthodox formatting choices and Tolstoy-esque post lengths are somehow tied to race?

  74. 74
    TooManyJens says:

    Can we at least all agree that we would really rather not contemplate Osama bin Laden’s porn collection?

    “The pornography recovered in bin Laden’s compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan, consists of modern, electronically recorded video and is fairly extensive, according to the officials, who discussed the discovery with Reuters on condition of anonymity.”

  75. 75
    Paula says:

    @Lawnguylander:

    He was already getting into beef with Ezra Klein and Dana Goldstein in their wee days with American Prospect over Ron Paul’s views on race. Also, I have a nice thread where GG exhibits a pretty amusing clueless-ness about what happens when people “call out” racism.

    2007-08 … a bit before Obama was the de facto front runner for the Democratic nomination.

  76. 76
    taylormattd says:

    @goblue72: oh christ really? There were a bunch of assholes here going on about, what, reverse racism?

    God.

    Hopefully this isn’t getting to be like Daily Kos, where there is plenty of the Limbaugh-esque “oh we poor downtrodden whites are being discriminated against by those darks!”

  77. 77
    JPL says:

    Wow another flame war, what a surprise! Some folks need to comment over at Sully’s.

  78. 78
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Corey: So Corey, what’s your racial background, since you brought it up?

    (Usually I find that people who say “you don’t know what my race are!” when accused of displaying white privilege are, in fact, as white as Snow.)

  79. 79
    TooManyJens says:

    @Corey:

    Since I specifically mentioned her posts about Greenwald and her obsessive Obotism, you could maybe infer that that was in fact what I was writing about, instead of calling me a racist.

    Since you specifically mentioned those separately from your whining about how her posts are too long and about things you don’t care about, that was not a natural inference to make. But OK, I believe you.

  80. 80
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Yutsano: Stop please.

  81. 81
    Guster says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel):I was going to say that you shouldn’t take offense, saying that your people dance well is a _compliment_, but a contractor just came to my house to give me an estimate and asked me what I thought about what Glen Beck says is happening to ‘the Jewish Race.’

  82. 82
    gwangung says:

    Wait, is this a progressive blog, or Bizarro FreeRepublic?

    Wait. There’s a difference?

  83. 83
    Yutsano says:

    @TooManyJens: I demand a front page post on this important and serious topic to our national discourse immediately! And talk about perfect JSF material there too!

    And just in case anyone thinks I’m running off, I still have to work for a living, so I’ll survey the carnage when I get home.

  84. 84
    TooManyJens says:

    I do have to wonder whether people hate Tom Levenson this much for the length of his posts.

  85. 85
    taylormattd says:

    @Lawnguylander: There is also apparently a high correlation between Greenwaldism, firebagism, and denying Ron Paul was a near klansman in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

  86. 86
    taylormattd says:

    @TooManyJens: Don’t worry, his art is less black.

  87. 87
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    I’m on ABL’s side.

    That’s fine, it should be easy enough to scroll past her posts going forward. The only continuing problem I have is when her behavior itself becomes the topic of so many other posts, crowding out other content.

  88. 88
    Jamie says:

    @Corey: but ABL is an objectively awful poster.

    “Mommy! I don’t like Betty. Make her go away.”

  89. 89
    Joe Beese says:

    In spite of everything, I get a kick out of ABL. She makes the place extra Balloon Juicy.

    I just wish she found room for the Muslims that Obama is killing in the group of persecuted minorities she feels responsible for.

  90. 90
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    The only continuing problem I have is when her behavior itself becomes the topic of so many other posts, crowding out other content.

    Scroll past those too.

    Hope this helps.

  91. 91
    cyntax says:

    @Corey:

    @Yutsano: I don’t think you know what “white privilege” means.

    First, are you suggesting that your race has any bearing on the definition of “white privilege”? Your race would only have bearing on Yutsano’s application of the term, not his understanding of the term. For someone who complains about bad writing, you could be a lot more precise.

    Second, are you going to explain why you can’t just skip her posts since they cause you such angst?

    Third, I was suggesting that your critiques seem to be all about ABL not meeting aesthetic requirements that you’ve set for her writing, and yes, those sorts of standards have often be used as a way of keeping non-white voices out of the discourse.

  92. 92
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @TooManyJens:

    Osama bin Laden’s porn collection

    Hang on a minute, news stories about this have been saying that the team had to high-tail it out of there leaving behind all sorts of valuable intelligence.

  93. 93
    D-Chance. says:

    @Scott: Or, go to Atrios or Instapundit. They seem to have that link-and-one-sentence blogging thing down pat.

  94. 94
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Yutsano:

    I demand a front page post on this important and serious topic to our national discourse immediately! And talk about perfect JSF material there too!

    I’ve been practicing pornography for over 23 years, and before that I was studying sexual passages in the Bible and other “dirty” books. I’ll put my porn credentials well above the ordinary laypeople here and I don’t think it’s conceited to tell them that. If they wanna pretend to be credible, fine, but don’t get upset when I call ’em on it.

  95. 95
    Guster says:

    @TooManyJens: Who’s Tom Levinson?

  96. 96
    TooManyJens says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9: Have they? I heard that they grabbed lots of hard drives, flash drives (WHY CAN’T I MAKE THIS NOT SOUND LIKE I’M TRYING TO MAKE PORN PUNS?), etc.

  97. 97
    taylormattd says:

    @Joe Beese: Ironic that you pull your firebagger routine on a day when your glorious martyr role-models from al-Qaeda killed a hundred Pakistani Muslims.

  98. 98
    Joel says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: I don’t have feelings, ’cause feelings are gay.

  99. 99
    Less Popular Tim says:

    In the interest of healing, I’d like to mention that one thing that I was really heartened to see from that thread is that everybody loves “Archer.”

  100. 100
    Dr. Morpheus says:

    @PS:

    Yeah, right, ABL is sensitive, if by that you mean that she notices and is hurt by stuff that is going on in the world which some of the folks here apparently do not recognize. No, she is not an “objectively awful poster” though that does not mean that you cannot subjectively dislike her posts. In which case, frevvinsake, don’t read them.

    For Christ sake, the same advice could be given to ABL. Don’t like the comments generated by your posts ABL? Then don’t shut comments down, just don’t read them. Problem solved, right?

    Geez, what’s good for the gander is good for the goose folks.

  101. 101
    CJ says:

    @gwangung: Heyo!

    I thought Bizarro FreeRepublic was FDL, but I’m just a mindless Obot, what do I know.

  102. 102
    TooManyJens says:

    @Guster: I … have no idea if you’re fucking with me or not. I’m terrible that way. In case you’re not: he’s the front-pager who writes the long, long posts illustrated with works of art.

  103. 103
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Dr. Morpheus: People have a tendency to gander when someone is getting goosed.

  104. 104
    Jesse Ewiak says:

    @Joe Beese: I have no problems with Obama, Bush, or any other President not respecting the civil liberties of foreign terrorists who are admitted masterminds of plans to kill thousands of American citizens. Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, or Scientologist. I just don’t give a fuck.

  105. 105
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @TooManyJens: Here’s video of OBL’s supplier placing the order.

  106. 106
    Nutella says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    The only continuing problem I have is when her behavior itself becomes the topic of so many other posts, crowding out other content.

    Threadjacking annoys me too but other people complaining about ABL in non-ABL threads can hardly be blamed on ABL.

  107. 107
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    Leave it to Balloon Juice commenters to declare that a black woman has to just take it — to show she’s tough enough? — when people start throwing racially charged language at her.

    I mean really, you’re that upset that you can’t comment on a thread?

  108. 108
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Scroll past those too

    Unfortunately they sometimes disguise themselves. Greenwald threads as well. You’ll be strolling along pleasantly through a comment section and all of a sudden out of nowhere some stupid fuck decides to turn it into a Greenwald hatefest. Just hoping that the signal to noise ratio stays relatively manageable.

  109. 109
    cyntax says:

    @Less Popular Tim:

    Yes, but I feel like the second season didn’t rise to the same level as the first (see, just like that we’re back to bitching).

  110. 110
    TooManyJens says:

    @Bobby Thomson: I knew that’s what that link was going to be.

  111. 111
    WaterGirl says:

    @cyntax: I seconded the request for individual RSS feeds – but not because of ABL. It’s like movies. I’ll pretty much go to any movie that has x actor in it, and I won’t go to any more that has say, Jerry Lewis in it.

    i will read any post by some front pagers, and there has been more than one front pager whose posts I rarely read. It would be nice to have the RSS feeds for that reason.

  112. 112
    Bartleby says:

    @TooManyJens:

    But Levenson is a good writer, and ABL isn’t, and that makes a big difference. Quality still counts, doesn’t it?

  113. 113
    John Cole says:

    Seriously? Another thread where the SAME FUCKING MALCONTENTS spend their day telling us how much they hate ABL?

    Get a fucking life. Stop reading the site. I think she’s great. Don’t read her posts. What is wrong with you people? Sorry you think her posts are too long. Sorry she closes threads because some of you never have anything constructive or interesting to offer. Sorry a picture, the likes of which have appeared in the onion and places like national lampoon forever caused a bunch of uptight white people so much pain.

    Get a grip.

  114. 114
    John Cole says:

    And Joe Beese, I wish you would just go back to the DKOS. You offer nothing. Nothing.

  115. 115
    Nutella says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    Yes, I have pie-filtered some people who do that. Dragging in Greenwald-or-other-person-you-hate into miscellaneous unrelated threads irritates me.

  116. 116
    Can't Be Bothered says:

    ABL is a bad writer and peddles in butthurt and hyperbole without fail. That’s my opinion, so I never read her posts. Simple solution that doesn’t require emails and flame wars. My only problem is that I think there are posters here that are consistently waaaaay more insightful than ABL, so at the very least I wish they would’ve gotten a shot first. At the end of the day, there’s lots of internet and no one is forcing anyone to read ABL’s outraged ramblings. Sending emails is hilarious to me.

  117. 117
    John Cole says:

    The only continuing problem I have is when her behavior itself becomes the topic of so many other posts, crowding out other content.

    It isn’t her, it is a handful of idiots who make everything about her. I’m tired of waking up to this shit in the morning.

  118. 118
    Dr. Morpheus says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    People have a tendency to gander when someone is getting goosed.

    More truer words were never spoken.

  119. 119
    John Cole says:

    @Can’t Be Bothered: Yet you were bothered enough to come in and tell us how much you hate her. Thanks for your input.

  120. 120
    Josie says:

    Now that’s the John Cole we all know and love!

  121. 121
    Corey says:

    @cyntax: No, I was suggesting that the introduction of “white privilege” into the debate was a non-sequitur by someone who ran across the term in their freshman sociology class and has no idea what it actually means.

    How on earth does my criticism of ABL’s Obotism, Greenwald obsession and general childishness reflect my implicit advantages as a white person (assuming, of course, that I am a white person, which is a giant assumption in and of itself)?

    How could you deduce that my “critiques seem to be all about ABL not meeting aesthetic requirements” when, in fact, I made six critiques in my original post, two of which involved formatting and aesthetics? I’m sitting here posting on a progressive blog; why would you assume that my goal is to “keep non-white voices out of the discourse”?

    P.S. I do skip ABL posts, along with others who write about stuff I’m not interested in. This post is about ABL, though, so I figured I’d add my two cents.

  122. 122
    Chris says:

    @Can’t Be Bothered:

    ABL is a bad writer and peddles in butthurt and hyperbole without fail. That’s my opinion, so I never read her posts. Simple solution that doesn’t require emails and flame wars. My only problem is that I think there are posters here that are consistently waaaaay more insightful than ABL, so at the very least I wish they would’ve gotten a shot first. At the end of the day, there’s lots of internet and no one is forcing anyone to read ABL’s outraged ramblings. Sending emails is hilarious to me.

    I believe I agree with you on every point. Well done.

  123. 123
    Paula says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Well, you know, calling out racism just shuts the conversation down … people should be free to exercise their right to call her an over-sensitive, Obama-cultist darkie whenever they like.

  124. 124
    cyntax says:

    @WaterGirl:

    So the RSS feeds don’t tell you who the author is? I did not know that.

  125. 125
    MikeJ says:

    @debit:

    The really offensive part was where johnny stated that he wanted to “shame” ABL.

    The hilarious part was when he complained that he didn’t like being called a racist because he really, truly wasn’t, but complained in what he imagines to be AA dialect.

  126. 126
    cbear says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: That freaked the shit out of me. My first thought was that whole space-time thingy had exploded while I was taking a dump and I was scared shit was going to start whizzing around the room—or Cole might jump out of my computer screen and strangle me before I started giving him shit about something.

    Somebody please come look for me if I don’t comment for awhile. Please.

  127. 127
    MikeJ says:

    @WaterGirl:

    I won’t go to any more that has say, Jerry Lewis in it.

    You’re depriving yourself. Arizona Dream is great and King of Comedy is an American classic.

  128. 128
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @TooManyJens:

    So bin Laden stored his porn in the same place as his plans for world domination? What a dumbass.

  129. 129
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Corey:

    (assuming, of course, that I am a white person, which is a giant assumption in and of itself)

    This is twice you’re playing coy, Corey. So are you white or not?

    Also, you complain that the introduction of “white privilege” into the debate was a non-sequitur by someone who ran across the term in their freshman sociology class and has no idea what it actually means — so again I ask you what you think “white privilege” means?

  130. 130
    TooManyJens says:

    @MikeJ:

    but complained in what he imagines to be AA dialect

    Is he really Bo Snerdley?

  131. 131
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Joe Beese:

    In spite of everything, I get a kick out of ABL.

    Too little, too late, Joe.

    Go.

    And take Stuck with you.

  132. 132
    Legalize says:

    Cole, a co-worker did something today that made me mad. You’re so getting an email about this!

  133. 133
    Jewish Steel says:

    ah, had troubs commenting. all better.
    move along.

  134. 134
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Corey:

    P.S. I do skip ABL posts, along with others who write about stuff I’m not interested in. This post is about ABL, though, so I figured I’d add my two cents.

    Actually this thread is about John Cole berating idiots like you and making clear that he doesn’t give a flying fuck about your feelings.

    Or your two cents.

  135. 135
    Joe Beese says:

    And Joe Beese, I wish you would just go back to the DKOS. You offer nothing. Nothing.

    Is it because I condemn Obama with insufficient intellectual substance?

    Or because I condemn Obama at all?

    Because if you’re saying the former – that condemning Obama with sufficient intellectual substance would be received as offering something – I’m afraid I don’t believe you.

    And if you’re saying the latter, what does that say about you?

  136. 136
    Guster says:

    @TooManyJens: I’m sorry. I was fucking with you. I just love these threads and milk them for my own amusement. Poor Tom! I bet if he went by D’Marco he’d get a lot more -abuse- attention.

  137. 137
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    So bin Laden stored his porn in the same place as his plans for world domination?

    No, he kept some other magazines in the same place he stored Better Bombs and Terror and This Week In Jihad.

  138. 138
    John Cole says:

    @Joe Beese: No, it is because you are a pompous, self-absorbed, narcissistic asshole who derails every fucking thread into a pointless pie fight. If I lived in your neighborhood I would dump Tunch’s litterbox on your porch every week.

    Just go away.

  139. 139
    ruemara says:

    @John Cole:

    Why are you complaining about Balloon Juice’s own Barack Obama? Look, outrage brings eyeballs. Ergo, how has ABL failed you today?

  140. 140
    cyntax says:

    @Corey:

    No, I was suggesting that the introduction of “white privilege” into the debate was a non-sequitur by someone who ran across the term in their freshman sociology class and has no idea what it actually means.

    You haven’t established anything that shows he doesn’t know what it means. You suggest that since he doesn’t know you’re white that he’s misapplying it but you conflate that with the idea that he doesn’t understand the term.

    How could you deduce that my “critiques seem to be all about ABL not meeting aesthetic requirements” when, in fact, I made six critiques in my original post, two of which involved formatting and aesthetics?

    Actually it’s three not two, because you mention the pictures.

    I’m sitting here posting on a progressive blog; why would you assume that my goal is to “keep non-white voices out of the discourse”?

    Cause I only know you through what you write. Maybe you should think about how what you’re writing is coming across to people since numerous people are telling you that it sounds racist.

  141. 141
    Anonne says:

    ABL can post whatever she likes. Some of it is good, some of it is pure drama (see, e.g., Greenwald). If she cannot, however, handle the commentary, she needs to thicken her skin or avert her eyes. No one else closes comments here. Even E.D. didn’t close comments when the usual suspects piled on with their dog shit.

    Ya know, I’m sure someone has good enough scripting skills to help people ignore ABL or whoever’s posts if they want to, via Greasemonkey/Stylish. Someone help those folks out.

  142. 142
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Joe Beese:

    Is it because I condemn Obama with insufficient intellectual substance? Or because I condemn Obama at all? Because if you’re saying the former – that condemning Obama with sufficient intellectual substance would be received as offering something – I’m afraid I don’t believe you. And if you’re saying the latter, what does that say about you?

    This calls for a letter to John Cole, I think. How dare John Cole do … whatever it is you think he did.

  143. 143
    Corey says:

    @Caoimhe Snow: Hm, if I didn’t know that you were a proponent of inclusiveness and tolerance, I’d almost say you were trying to exclude my voice from the discourse here.

    But you wouldn’t do anything like that, would you?

  144. 144
    Can't Be Bothered says:

    @John Cole: @John Cole:

    Yeah I was bothered enough. I have never posted in one of her threads, but I do have an opinion on her content. This post is ostensibly about her, so this was clearly going to be a thread about the matter.

    It isn’t her, it is a handful of idiots who make everything about her. I’m tired of waking up to this shit in the morning.

    Perhaps if you have to constantly “wake up to this shit” about ABL it’s not a coincidence or some one way idiot train. There have been lots of posters here without the same problems and I don’t think it’s b/c of some conspiracy against her. You like her content, it’s your blog whatever. I’ve said my piece on it and I’ll stop here. Hopefully, the flame war will be contained to this thread.

  145. 145
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @John Cole:

    It isn’t her

    Yes, it is. If you want a blog with an open comment section, and you want people to stop e-mailing you about one of the bloggers, the smart thing to do would be to go to the root of the problem. Alternatively, you could go to a registration system and have an insular little semi-closed community. But if you’re going to put someone on the front page who pushes hot buttons with her posts you don’t get to blame the buttons.

  146. 146
    taylormattd says:

    @John Cole: He’s more of a firebagger.

  147. 147
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Corey: Corey, are you white or are you not white?

    Twice you’ve said “nobody knows if I’m white or not!” Twice you’ve refused to answer what you think the definition of “white privilege” is, after saying that someone else got it wrong.

    This isn’t me excluding you from discussion. This is me asking you to finish your sentences and say what you really mean. That’s the exact opposite of exclusion.

  148. 148
    Mr. Poppinfresh says:

    @Can’t Be Bothered: Seconded. I don’t like reading stuff by web writers that smacks of “trying too hard to be funny/edgy”, no matter what the content is. If you agree, just use your mouse wheel and scroll on by.

    Problem solved, no need for drama.

  149. 149
    motorik says:

    ABL is a fourth-rate writer on a second-rate blog.

    Without even going to the merit of her arguments, which is questionable, she is unable to construct a readable blog post.

    You would think that might be a factor in deciding who to frontpage.

  150. 150
    Can't Be Bothered says:

    @John Cole:

    I guess I should change my handle, b/c nobody get’s the irony. I’m not a regular poster, but every time I say something someone doesn’t like their reply starts with “you were bothered enough to…” Le sigh.

  151. 151
    che says:

    speaking of pie filters, help a noob out. I have Firefox, Greasemonkey, and BJ Disemvoweller thing installed and a enabled and a couple of names added, but the userscript commands is grayed out. What do I need to do to get it to work?

  152. 152
    Cassidy says:

    Man when did the commentariat become whiny bitches?

    “The comments are turned off. I can’t argue with someone on the internets. Aaaaahhhhh I’m no longer validated.”

    Personally, if I ran the show here, I’d shut off all the comments and tell you all to grow the fuck up. And I’d leave’em off for at least a week. Then come back with a post publishing all the indignant “validate me, I’m important” emails and mock your stupid ass incessantly until I was bored.

  153. 153
    taylormattd says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9: The root of the problem are that the 5 or 6 Obama-deranged here go apeshit at the thought of a post that doesn’t sufficiently call Obama an evil republican. That, along with some racist bullshit, is what you have going on here.

  154. 154
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Anonne:

    ABL can post whatever she likes. Some of it is good, some of it is pure drama (see, e.g., Greenwald). If she cannot, however, handle the commentary, she needs to thicken her skin or avert her eyes. No one else closes comments here. Even E.D. didn’t close comments when the usual suspects piled on with their dog shit.

    No one else gets the kind of racist replies that ABL gets. Damn right that E.D. Kain, a white guy, didn’t get the kind of stuff thrown at him that a black woman gets thrown at her.

    Hey, if you don’t like it, send an email to John Cole or something.

  155. 155
    Rihilism says:

    @MonkeyBoy: HOW DARE YOU CALL ME LONELY! Myself and my kitty, Princess Pussytat, are NOT lonely. WE simply demand our RIGHT to be heard! ANYONE who does not believe ALL comments sections are a democracy is a FASCIST! John Cole, you will rue the day, RUE THE DAY, once you receive my tersely worded and irrefutably argued email on this subject…

  156. 156
    Corey says:

    @cyntax:

    You suggest that since he doesn’t know you’re white that he’s misapplying it but you conflate that with the idea that he doesn’t understand the term.

    No, that’s not true at all. My point is that introducing race into the debate is sophomoric since the debate had zero to do with race in the first place. If you want to call out my white privilege, tell me how exactly my criticisms exemplify my implicit advantages in society.

  157. 157
    Paula says:

    Apparently, many of Cole’s readers cannot handle the scroll wheel.

    Pity the poor malcontents, how they suffer under the yoke of ABL, the tyrant blogger who shows up at their front door and holds a gun to their heads so that they are forced to read her.

  158. 158
    Paula says:

    @Caoimhe Snow: How dare you suggest racism! I’M E-MAILING COLE.

  159. 159
    cbear says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    ..other magazines..

    Mickey Kaus is gonna have some ‘splaining do to when the FBI checks those subscriber lists.

  160. 160
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @taylormattd:

    The root of the problem are that the 5 or 6 Obama-deranged here go apeshit at the thought of a post that doesn’t sufficiently call Obama an evil republican.

    No, the root of the problem is folks that can’t tolerate divergent opinions. This infects your side thoroughly.

  161. 161
    Sentient Puddle says:

    I have an opinion on ABL’s content. But I also know that nobody gives a fuck about that opinion, and it’d really just be a waste of time on all of our parts for me to write it out. Think some people could stand to realize that about themselves as well.

    Instead, you all should help me decide what kind of beer I should brew this weekend. That’d be productive.

  162. 162
    Cat Lady says:

    @John Cole:

    Threaten to leave Rosie with him too. Win win.

  163. 163
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Paula: The best part is how they keep commenting to complain to Cole, demanding that he get rid of her, even though he started off the conversation by saying, “I’m on ABL’s side. I don’t care about your hurt feelings.”

    It’s like they think that if they keep saying the same thing over and over again, he’ll suddenly care about their hurt feelings.

  164. 164
    wag says:

    This thread needs a bookend to close the loop on started by the classic SNL piece that started it. Here’s another classic SNL bit to end it.

  165. 165
    Tim, Interrupted says:

    Damn, I want to read the ABL thread comments from last night.

    I know very little Intertubes/computer technitronica: Is it possible there is a link to before ABL so bravely and courageously and strongly shut down and disappeared the comments?

  166. 166
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Paula: How dare you email Cole! I’M EMAILING COLE!

  167. 167
    Josie says:

    @Sentient Puddle: ooooh, honey hibiscus sounds delicious. I’d like it excessively cold, please.

  168. 168
    wag says:

    @Paula:

    Exactly this

  169. 169
    Tim, Interrupted says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Actually this thread is about John Cole berating idiots like you and making clear that he doesn’t give a flying fuck about your feelings. Or your two cents.

    Shorter CSnow: “Daddy is on MY side, so there!”

    Weak.

  170. 170
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Tim, Interrupted: No comments were disappeared. Just go to the front page and scroll down, for Cole’s sake. Read the one with the picture of a fat white dude with bad hair, then read all the baaawing in AL’s Ensign thread, and you’ll be caught up.

  171. 171
    wag says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    A highly hopped american pale ale would be my recommendation

    And make sure it’s plenty bitter after reading this thread

    Or maybe make some wine instead

  172. 172
    Joe Beese says:

    If you want a blog with an open comment section…

    He goes back and forth.

  173. 173
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Tim, Interrupted: Do you disagree that this post is about Cole telling off the whiners?

    I mean, look at his comments later in the thread. He likes ABL and dislikes the constant ABL-complainers. So why would complaining about ABL be a good idea at this point?

  174. 174
    nancydarling says:

    @John Cole: I luvs me some ABL. And John Cole, too.

  175. 175
    Can't Be Bothered says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    I think we should all write posts about how we’re not going to write posts about our opinions b/c nobody cares about anything. We can get a daisy chain going of everyone telling everyone that nobody gives a fuck what they have to say about anything. I think you should go for the 20th anniversary Blonde Rye, if you care (not likely).

  176. 176
    PS says:

    @Dr. Morpheus: Not the same situation. There is a big difference between actively attempting to start an interesting discussion which then turns rancid and passively choosing to read someone you intensely dislike.

  177. 177
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    I liek ABL.
    She is helping me a lot with my emergent Unified Field Theory of Libertarianism.

    The Greenwald Axiom of Libertarian Field Theory.
    Any pundit that claims to be a libertarian in 21st century america will also claim that Obama=Bush on civil liberties.
    Postulate I of the Greenwald Axiom –alternatively, said pundit will claim that Obama is WORSE than Bush on civil liberties, because Obama knows better.
    Postulate II — or should know better.
    ;)

  178. 178
    Tim, Interrupted says:

    @John Cole:

    @Joe Beese: No, it is because you are a pompous, self-absorbed, narcissistic asshole

    Ah…and you are pissed that JB is horning in on YOUR schtick…got it.

  179. 179
    Cassidy says:

    Or maybe make some wine instead

    Plenty of whine in here already.

  180. 180
    Less Popular Tim says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    So bin Laden stored his porn in the same place as his plans for world domination?

    Well, in the infosec biz, there’s actually some precedent for that. The idea is that you have a bunch of secret information and you encrypt it. You also use a different key that makes the secret ciphertext resolve to something embarrassing or even illegal but less illegal than your secret information. Porn works for that. Then if you are tortured to reveal the key, you give the key that makes the ciphertext resolve to the porn. Why was your stuff encrypted if there’s nothing incriminating? Simple, you were embarrassed about the porn. Of course, there is alot more ciphertext on the storage than you’d expect just to yield the porn, but if your interrogator is not sophisticated, he might not keep torturing you for the other key, the one for the stuff you actually cared about.

  181. 181
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Ghanima Atreides:

    She is helping me a lot with my emergent Unified Field Theory of Liberianism.

    Liberia nism? Is that code for African?

  182. 182
    wag says:

    @Cassidy:

    Yeah, that’s for sure, and that was the point

  183. 183
    PS says:

    @Less Popular Tim: Thanks, I hadn’t thought of that. (Good grief, I learned something in this thread.)

  184. 184
    Can't Be Bothered says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Maybe nobody cares that nobody cares about their opinion. Maybe it’s cathartic, much like our blog host’s posts. Maybe it’s a free form discussion and as long as something is interesting and/or on topic it doesn’t matter what’s said.

    good idea

    On the internet! Ha!

  185. 185
    Paul in KY says:

    @Ghanima Atreides: I think I helped you a while back with that. Something about Glenn gets more worked up about Pres. Obama because he has a much higher opinion of him.

    I should get a cite somewhere in the paper.

  186. 186
    Ecks says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): Daily Show FTW

    @Less Popular Tim: This, pretty much. She’s a great poster, she mixes things up, it’s her absolute right to shut down any damn thread she wants… but that doesn’t mean we can’t consider it weak sauce and be annoyed that conversation gets cut off in mid flow. And its ironic (that word again) that nobody would care the conversation ended if it wasn’t an important topic. But her house, her rules. So! How ’bout that local sports team and/or college!

    @TooManyJens: Dude was just a human. If you cut him does he not bleed. If you put a bullet in his head, does it not make world news?

  187. 187
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: i fixt it. ;)
    here! you should take the quiz Fuckhead.
    You might be a crypto-libertarian too.
    moar data! moar data!

    /giggles behind hand.

  188. 188
    Tom65 says:

    @Corey: I’m sorry, but anyone who uses the term “Obot” automatically gets fed to the alligators.

  189. 189
    Chris Wolf says:

    Oh, the irony.
    A couple of days ago everyone was on board with the notion that the commenters at DKos were self-important, childish and whiny. And everyone ridiculed their flame-wars.
    If John had autoban, eventually there’d only be one commenter left here, due to attrition.

  190. 190
    Marmot says:

    @Paula: Yeah, what’s with that? I’m no ABL fan, so I just ignore most of it. Same with the pie filter — is it really necessary to shield yourself from the possibility of seeing words you don’t like?

  191. 191
    Paul in KY says:

    @Less Popular Tim: That’s a slightly more sophisticated version of my childhood ‘Admit the lesser, deny the greater’ axiom.

    When caught in some bit of deviltry, I would always solomnly admit to what I felt was the least bad thing and then adamently disavow the greater. Did work for me (at times).

  192. 192
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Chris Wolf: *coughs nervously*

  193. 193
    cbear says:

    @Less Popular Tim: Your mom searched your room a lot when you were a kid, didn’t she?

  194. 194
    Lolis says:

    I am an ABL fan. I find it truly remarkable that the same people who criticize ABL for her criticism of GG, accuse her of Obot mindlessness. Do you guys really not see the inherent flaw in this attack? I guess Obama can be criticized for anything under the sun but GG cannot be criticized for anything. Yeah, you guys are stupid.

  195. 195
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Paul in KY: yes, we will have to call that Postulate Paul.
    ;)

  196. 196
    eemom says:

    oh my God, this just keeps getting betterer and betterer.

    ABL. Greenwald. Closed comments. Fee fees hurted. E-mailing Cole. New little drama queens springing up like dandelions. Lawyer-bashing. Beese being Beese. Toko-loko back.

    It’s all too beeyoooootifuuuul……

  197. 197
    Marmot says:

    @Sentient Puddle: Hey — you’re local. How ’bout that rain, huh? Did Perry take credit yet?

  198. 198
    slag says:

    Nice post title!

    It’s unfortunate how little progress tends to be made among progressives in this and so many other areas. Especially when you also consider how much further behind centrists and righties are. Threads like this one are really useful reminders of how royally screwed we are as a society. Good work, team!

  199. 199
    rootless_e says:

    listen up now people
    ’cause I have a confession to make
    about the Dear Leader and our mistake
    we followed him to breaches so material
    due to his presidentin’ so imperial
    we thought it was all good fun
    to plan an assassina-tion
    of a citizen upstanding and quite fantastic
    who exercised his rights via explosive plastic
    but now we know that there is but one Righteous Scold
    and we pray to the great Greenwald.
    om om om

  200. 200
    Paul in KY says:

    @Ghanima Atreides: How about ‘The Paul Collalary’? (I don’t think I spelled that right, but you know what I mean)

  201. 201
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Josie: I like the idea of a wit. Seems like it’d be perfect for the inevitably bloody hot weather that we’ll be having in a month or so when it’s ready to drink.

    @wag: I do sort of like the idea of making wine. I remember that my grandpa made wine when I was growing up, and he had a bloody vineyard in his backyard (hardcore!). Always thought that was the coolest thing ever. Maybe one day…

    @Can’t Be Bothered: Blonde dye doesn’t sound like a bad choice either. I think the wit might be slightly more in the direction that I’m feeling at the moment, but the rye does have a few free pint glasses, which is also tempting. Hrm…

  202. 202
    Joel says:

    Holy crap, whingenuts, your hands must ache from clutching those pearls so tightly.

  203. 203
    Paula says:

    @Chris Wolf:

    Well, I WAS trying to be polite … but I think it’s well established that many people on BJ are also childish and narcissistic.

  204. 204
    Tony J says:

    If you don’t like ABL’s threads, scroll past them. It’s that simple.

    That said, closing off comments on a BJ thread is about as sad and pathetic as e-mailing Cole with complaints about who he lets front-page on his own blog.

    People can say what they like about the tenets of Balloon Juice, but at least it’s an ethos.

  205. 205
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Marmot: I’ve more or less tried to ignore Perry, but as far as I’m concerned, he can have credit. All I remember of it yesterday was that I started driving to work in a light, pleasant drizzle, then halfway there the apocalypse began. I was pretty afraid that it’d start hailing at any moment, given how heavy those rain drops were.

  206. 206
    eemom says:

    I do have a couple of requests:

    Toko, upon consideration of the brilliant, if belated, success of your jihad against E.D., could you please now devote yourself full-time to demanding that Glenn Greenwald be booted from the internet?

    Can somebody fix time so that the West Coasters don’t get to have all the fun in the middle of the night while the rest of us are haplessly sleeping?

    kthxbai

  207. 207
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    I liek ABL a lot.
    At least she is honest.

  208. 208
    Paul in KY says:

    @rootless_e: Is this done to the music from Beverly Hillbillies theme?

  209. 209
    Can't Be Bothered says:

    Welcome to the Butthurt Hall of Mirrors Funhouse everyone! Don’t have a grievance you say? Simple… just become aggrieved that someone is trying to be aggrieved. Anyone can have a good time!

  210. 210
    Paul in KY says:

    @eemom: I think that would be about as different a task as cutting a sea level canal thru Panama was from cutting a sea level canal thru the Suez.

  211. 211
    Josie says:

    @Sentient Puddle: “bloody hot weather.” Do you live in Texas too?

  212. 212
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @eemom: sry, im bizzy.
    i jus’ made halal hamburger out of JAFI Tim KOWal (heh), and i’m concurrently engaged in a flame war about EGT and Dawkins definition of a CSS with Richard Dawkin’s posse of slow-witted evangelical atheists.

    The net is vast and infinite.

  213. 213
    Marmot says:

    @Sentient Puddle: Sounds like yesterday, alright. Found three serious leaks in the roof, myself. And sure, I guess Perry can have the credit if he wants it. One more like that and the creeks will be flowing again too!

  214. 214
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Ecks: Really? Damn. And here I thought I was being, after a fashion, original.

    That’s how it is with us Je-…well, perhaps I’ve said too much.

  215. 215
    different church-lady says:

    Man, I love it when everybody is wrong. Keeps things simple.

  216. 216
    Corner Stone says:

    @rootless_e: God. Just admit you want to fuck him and be done with it.

  217. 217
    Corner Stone says:

    My only regret is that I wasn’t here earlier to pile on and earn my way into Big Daddy Cole’s really harsh admonishment.
    For like the eleventy billionth time he’s had to step in and tell people to back off his mistake.

  218. 218
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Lolis: Seriously. “You Obots can’t handle a contrary opinion about your Dear Leader! Also, I’m tired of reading ABL’s opinions because they’re contrary to mine!”

  219. 219
    Shinobi says:

    In my opinion continuing to provide a forum for people to spew racist/sexist/otherist crap is a bad idea. I think ABL did the right thing to close the comments, sometimes commenters just don’t know when to quit.

  220. 220
    Joe Beese says:

    A couple of days ago everyone was on board with the notion that the commenters at DKos were self-important, childish and whiny. And everyone ridiculed their flame-wars.

    Like the man said…

    Life is just high school with money.

  221. 221
    different church-lady says:

    @Joe Beese:

    Life is just high school with money.

    Wait: you have money?

  222. 222
    Ecks says:

    @John Cole: Proposed word: “blogerazzi” (n) commenters who take such a dislike to a person or topic that they hound it relentlessly regardless of how appropriate or relevant the forum is

    @Tim, Interrupted: Caoimhe is right, she didn’t disappear any comments. The thread she started with the whacky campaign ads has 0 comments because it was created shut.

  223. 223
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Sentient Puddle: The Turkish Coffee stout looks interesting.

  224. 224
    Corner Stone says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    the ordinary laypeople here

    I can’t believe you used the word “laypeople” in a comment about porn.

  225. 225
    Tuttle says:

    If you don’t like ABL’s threads, scroll past them. It’s that simple.

    Well, yea. But then Cole goes and posts about her latest maniacal ravings and here we are.

  226. 226
  227. 227
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Paul in KY: the Paul Corrollary it is.
    ;)
    The Greenwald Axiom of Libertarian Unified Field Theory.
    Any pundit that claims to be a libertarian in 21st century america will also claim that Obama=Bush on civil liberties.
    The Paul Corrollary to the Greenwald Axiom—alternatively, said pundit will claim that Obama is WORSE than Bush on civil liberties, because Obama knows better and/or should know better.

  228. 228
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Josie: Yep, within reasonable driving distance of Austin Homebrew Supply. Thus, my plans to stop there after work.

    @Marmot: Shit, you made me realize that I should check my roof too. I barely ever go upstairs in my house, so if there are any leaks, I otherwise wouldn’t have caught them until months down the line…

    @Bobby Thomson: At this point, what I really should do is pick up another set of fermenters, isn’t it?

  229. 229
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I can’t believe you used the word “laypeople” in a comment about porn.

    I thought it was an inspired choice of words.

  230. 230

    Fuck you firebaggers, ABL has more integrity and intelligence than all you assholes put together. Your clever little “Obot” bullshit should be left on the fucking grade school playground. Grow the hell up and get your heads out of Glenn Greenwald’s ass, it must be nasty in there.

  231. 231
    Lojasmo says:

    Shorter locked thread:

    @Joe beesE @bob loblaw and a couple other fuck nuts got their sense of white entitlement stubbed on ABL’s ironic snark. Hilarity ensued.

  232. 232
    slag says:

    @different church-lady: Really? I find it easier to mindlessly take sides and disregard anyone who doesn’t already agree with me or who happened to be an asshole that one time.

  233. 233
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Tuttle: ABL is not maniacal. She is merely passionate and honest.
    On the other hand, I am maniacal.
    Fear meh.
    ;)

  234. 234
    Anonne says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Being a black woman myself, I don’t agree with any racist bullshit thrown at her. If people are getting racist with her, then Cole should use the banhammer on said individuals.

    However, if she just doesn’t like an honest critique, she needs to toughen up and, preferably, think twice before she presses publish. Some days, I feel she’s a somewhat more evolved and coherent version of matoko.

  235. 235
    Blue Galangal says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    Is it too warm to brew the Honey Hibiscus Wit?

    http://www.austinhomebrew.com/.....s_id=12511

    (I don’t like hoppy. So I’m voting for exotic.)

  236. 236
    Chyron HR says:

    SO HOW ABOUT THEM MY LITTLE PONIES, HUH?

    RAINBOW DASH IS MY FAVORITE ON ACCOUNT OF SHE’S 20% COOLER.

  237. 237
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    John would hate all of you anyway because that’s just how he rolls but damn, do you ever make it easy.

  238. 238
    Joe Beese says:

    Your clever little “Obot” bullshit should be left on the fucking grade school playground. Grow the hell up and get your heads out of Glenn Greenwald’s ass, it must be nasty in there.

    I see.

  239. 239
    singfoom says:

    Angry FPer is angry. Also, a lady.
    Whiny commenters are whiny.
    Casual blog owner doesn’t care about whiny commenter’s feelings.

    Whiny commenters even whinier when their whininess is pointed out.

  240. 240
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Joe Beese:

    Life is just high school with money.

    lool.
    High school never ends.

  241. 241
    Tony J says:

    @Tuttle:

    Well, yea. But then Cole goes and posts about her latest maniacal ravings and here we are.

    No, he didn’t. No, she didn’t. No, we’re not.

    Look, you’ve already got our resident teenage AI Image on your case. If you’re not careful, Ralf the Wise and Powerful will stick out a ghostly finger and erase your entire life history any second now.

    It saddens me to predict that only a very few people will even get the reference.

  242. 242
    rootless_e says:

    @Paul in KY: seems natural, no?

  243. 243
    different church-lady says:

    @Extreme Liberal:

    Fuck you firebaggers, ABL has more integrity and intelligence than all you assholes put together. Your clever little “Obot” bullshit should be left on the fucking grade school playground. Grow the hell up and get your heads out of Glenn Greenwald’s ass, it must be nasty in there.

    And the wheels on the bus go ’round and ’round…

  244. 244
    Marmot says:

    @Sentient Puddle: No problem! The water dripping out of the AC intake was my clue. It’s always better sooner than later with that stuff, for sure. I hate going up in the attic, especially when the electricity goes off when I’m up there, like yesterday.

  245. 245
    different church-lady says:

    @Just Some Fuckhead: Symbiotic relationships: how do they work?

    @singfoom: that’s one of the worst haikus I’ve ever seen.

  246. 246
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Chyron HR: Fear them too.
    Those are muslim ponies you know.

  247. 247
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @Tony J:

    Holy shit, I got that reference. You know there’s a new book out, right?

    http://www.amazon.com/I-War-Bo.....038;sr=8-1

  248. 248
    MonkeyBoy says:

    @slag:

    Threads like this one are really useful reminders of how royally screwed we are as a society.

    No, threads like this show that a small part of society is lonely and has nothing better to do than spend an inordinate amount of time online slagging others to get attention.

    In real life would you hang with a group of social misfits whose main goal is that you pay them attention?

  249. 249
    Tonal Crow says:

    Once again Cole steps up, shoots, and scores a bounty of page hits (= revenue) by trolling his own blog.

  250. 250
    singfoom says:

    @different church-lady: Indeed, it was a horrible haiku, but I never intended it to be one. Just a bunch of observations in sequence.

    Here’s my attempt in your honor:
    Angry Black Lady
    Comments have been turned off
    Whiners are angry

  251. 251
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @MonkeyBoy:

    In real life would you hang with a group of social misfits whose main goal is that you pay them attention?

    Hale No! I’d be hanging with monkey people doing monkey people things.

  252. 252
    goblue72 says:

    Has Cole stuck his dick in the mashed potatoes yet?

  253. 253
    El Tiburon says:

    @eemom:

    oh my God, this just keeps getting betterer and betterer.

    ABL. Greenwald. Closed comments. Fee fees hurted. E-mailing Cole. New little drama queens springing up like dandelions. Lawyer-bashing. Beese being Beese. Toko-loko back.

    What we need is an blog or BJ version of The Soup. Can we get someone to review all the shit some of us miss when we, you know, tend to our real lives outside this damn blog.

  254. 254
    Tony J says:

    @Jay in Oregon:

    I did not. He’s had the teaser for A.I. War up on his Continuing Time page for so long I thought he’d died or something. I say this as someone who used his one and only visit to the States as an opportunity to raid the bookshops of Seattle for the rest of the books in the series, and only came up with a copy of The Last Dancer, which is the only book I’ve already read.

    Daniel Keys Moran, people, you won’t regret it.

  255. 255
    Corner Stone says:

    @Extreme Liberal: Go back to her twitter stream and stroke her ego some more.

  256. 256
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Chyron HR: most ponies are part arab.
    Like all muslims, MLPs are the harbingers of the apocalypse.

  257. 257
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @Tony J:
    I have at least two copies of each of his paperbacks, because I would loan them out and never get them back.

    Now that they’re available as eBooks, I’m happy as a clam. If I can dig up my extra copies, maybe we can do a deal?

    DKM won’t commit to when the next book is supposed to be available — he’s not a glutton for punishment — but he said maybe, maybe by the end of this year. But don’t quote me!

  258. 258
    El Tiburon says:

    @John Cole:

    Seriously? Another thread where the SAME FUCKING MALCONTENTS

    HA HA! Cole is talking about YOU! Looooooosers!!

  259. 259
    Corner Stone says:

    @Pooh: ABL pooh’d out another garbage post.

  260. 260
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Anonne:

    I feel she’s a somewhat more evolved and coherent version of matoko.

    hey.
    i’m coherent, just not coherent in this metaverse.

  261. 261
    slag says:

    @MonkeyBoy:

    In real life would you hang with a group of social misfits whose main goal is that you pay them attention?

    I guess I never thought of it like that. I come here only at the prospect of either learning something or mocking something and assumed others came for the same reason. The reality is that this comment section attracts some really interesting and smart people, and even it can go really, really wrong sometimes. And it’s hardly a coincidence that it goes most wrong when race/gender are involved. In that sense, this comment section is not original at all. Which is pretty much the sad part.

  262. 262
    Corner Stone says:

    @Nom de Plume:

    People send you emails about what goes on in comments? You’re shitting me, right?

    I know right? I mean, right? Who would do that? AMIRITE??

  263. 263
    different church-lady says:

    @singfoom: My honor is honored.

  264. 264
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @slag:

    it goes most wrong when race/gender are involved

    race/gender… OR LIBERTARIANS i tell you.
    Libertarians are of the Devil.
    Glenn Greenwald is a libertarian, you know.

  265. 265
    different church-lady says:

    @El Tiburon:

    Can we get someone to review all the shit some of us miss when we, you know, tend to our real lives outside this damn blog.

    Wait… people have real lives outside of this damn blog?

    @Ghanima Atreides: thank you for removing any doubt.

  266. 266
    Tony J says:

    @Jay in Oregon:

    If you’re willing to sell, I would be frenetically happy to get my hands on copies of the earlier books. How do we do this in an Internet-safe way? My grasp of its traditions is handicapped by my increasing age and paranoia.

    I’ll be checking back in later on. English time, etc. About to enjoy Friday Pizza Night and explain to ‘Er Indoors what I was doing on the Internet this late.

  267. 267
    gwangung says:

    @El Tiburon: Jeezus…a thread where I agree with El Tiburon. Truly, the apocalypse draws nigh.

  268. 268
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @Extreme Liberal:

    Fuck you firebaggers, ABL has more integrity and intelligence than all you assholes put together. Your clever little “Obot” bullshit should be left on the fucking grade school playground. Grow the hell up and get your heads out of Glenn Greenwald’s ass, it must be nasty in there.

    Discuss.

    @Lojasmo:

    @Joe beesE @bob loblaw and a couple other fuck nuts got their sense of white entitlement stubbed on ABL’s ironic snark.

    Still not white, sweetums. I just troll everybody. Even kay. And nobody trolls kay.

    In conclusion, fuck the white man. And Glenn Greenwald. And may ABL continue to have a long and prosperous career of throwing hissy fits, threatening to quit the site, telling everyone “she doesn’t need this shit anymore,” coming back anyway two days later, and spending post after post telling us how drunk she is every night. Although that last one is actually the balloon juice calling card I suppose.

  269. 269
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Ghanima Atreides:

    race/gender… OR LIBERTARIANS i tell you.

    Or people obsessed with liberians.

  270. 270
    Nutella says:

    it goes most wrong when race/gender are involved

    That’s because everyone is an expert on those topics and knows exactly what everyone else should think about them.

  271. 271
    opal says:

    @El Tiburon:

    We need a catch-all moniker to describe the phenomenon.

    I was thinking Greencoats, but that seems kind of lame.

  272. 272
    opal says:

    @Ghanima Atreides:

    MLPs are the harbingers of the apocalypse

    Tell me about it.

  273. 273
    Zandar says:

    Also, WHAT THE HELL, people.

  274. 274
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @Tony J:

    I hear ya; posting any kind of contact information on a blog is asking for trouble.

    Let me find the books first, so I don’t get your hopes up…

  275. 275
    slag says:

    @Nutella:

    That’s because everyone is an expert on those topics and knows exactly what everyone else should think about them.

    Good point. And in order to see something from someone else’s perspective, you have to be prepared to be uncertain about your own. But of course, feelings of insecurity make it especially hard to admit uncertainty.

    I know that when I find a subject that someone is absolutely, unquestionably certain about, I’ve probably found one of their primary weaknesses. It’s like finding a gay Republican in a megachurch.

  276. 276
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    BJ commentariat, two days ago: This site, and left-wing blogs in general, are obviously more honest and generally better than those on the right because we have free and open comments. Ha ha, what are those goobers on the right scared of? Clearly the way our side allows comments makes us superior.

    BJ commentariat, today: There’s nothing wrong with a blogger who disallows comments. Anyone who says otherwise is just a whiny racist. Now watch this drive.

  277. 277
    KANFSU says:

    @Corey:

    Author-specific RSS-feeds, please

    THIS PLEASE.

  278. 278
    opal says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:

    Shorter Baron Jrod: It’s racist to call me racist.

  279. 279
    Dustin says:

    Well what the hell, this post had almost 300 comments so I figured it would be worth checking out. Damn am I sorry I did. I didn’t even realize ABL had a blowup with the commenters, nor that Cole is apparently perfectly ok with shutting down comment threads.

    I’ve been reading this site for years and one of the main things that gets me to read damn near every post is the comment threads, the community. I don’t even care about who was wrong, who’s fee-fees got hurt, or any of that. What I care about is the fact that one of the authors (who I happen to quite enjoy) got a stick up her ass and didn’t just ban individuals trolls, but the entire community from her posts. You aren’t interested in discussion, aren’t happy with where things are going? Find, say so. But shutting down the thread wholesale crosses a major freaking line.

    I never thought I’d say it, and I know you don’t give a rip, but you’ve lost a lot of my respect over this one John. I’ll now have to make it a habit to scroll to the end of the comments just to see if I can post before I bother reading anything on the page. You don’t want to give me the option to comment? Fine, just don’t expect me to read the page.

  280. 280
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @opal: Feel free to point out where I’ve said anything racist. Ever.

    Every post I’ve ever written here or any other blog going back to 1998 had the string “Jrod” in the username. That should make your search a bit easier.

    Unless pointing out blatant hypocrisy became a sign of racist intent while I wasn’t looking. Sometimes I fall behind in my knowledge of dog whistle technology. Perhaps you can explain?

  281. 281
    tomvox1 says:

    Say what you will about Greenwald, and I’ve hurled my fair share of invective his way, but sometimes he gets it dead fucking right:

    The quaint and obsolete Nuremberg principles

    I understand politically why Obama did not initiate an investigation of Bush/Cheney’s criminal lying and war crimes…but that doesn’t mean it should not have happened anyway. How are we ever going to learn anything as a society if powerful Americans are always getting off scot-free for their terrible crimes against humanity? (See also: Kissenger, Henry; major bond rating agencies; Goldman Sachs and Wall Street generally; the Koch brothers; Massey Mining; etc, etc, etc.)

  282. 282
    Joe Beese says:

    “The quaint and obsolete Nuremberg principles”

    It’s hard to avoid the conclusion that what has provoked such rage at bin Laden as a supreme criminal isn’t the unlawful killing of civilians, but rather the killing of Americans on U.S. soil. The way we treat our own war criminals and policies of mass civilian death from around the world — and the way we so brazenly repudiate and even scorn the Nuremberg Principles we said we were establishing for the world — leave little doubt about that.

  283. 283
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Dustin:

    I never thought I’d say it, and I know you don’t give a rip, but you’ve lost a lot of my respect over this one John. I’ll now have to make it a habit to scroll to the end of the comments just to see if I can post before I bother reading anything on the page. You don’t want to give me the option to comment? Fine, just don’t expect me to read the page.

    This. “Vibrant” comment sections, indeed.

  284. 284
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @Tonal Crow: I hope you and Dustin realize that you’ve forever revealed yourselves as hateful racists. No backsies.

  285. 285
    opal says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:

    going back to 1998 had the string “Jrod” in the username

    I never assumed anything about the term “Jrod”.

    Unless you are.

  286. 286
    David Moyes says:

    One of the biggest impediments to a healing of racial relations in this country is that people are, in general, very uncomfortable discussing race. This is especially a problem for white liberal types who never find their own biases because, never discussing the matter, they don’t do enough self-reflection.

    It seems that the blogger in question (I’m not a long-time reader) is seeking to perform the admirable task of getting those conversations going, even if people are largely hiding behind pseudonyms (myself included). Good on her for that.

    But this function is not at all served if conversation is shut down, either literally or through hair-trigger charges of racism. Either we want to have some uncomfortable conversations or we don’t. If we can’t hear something hateful without responding in kind then there is no point in even trying to have a conversation about it. One disabuses someone of racist tendencies by calmly pointing them out and appealing to the person’s humanity and rationality in order that s/he will work to improve.

    So if this blog wants to be the kind of place where these issues are discussed, then it probably just has to be ready to deal with some ugly comments. Try to reason with those who don’t mean to be racist and ignore the ones for whom there is no hope of a cure.

  287. 287
    Corner Stone says:

    Wow, another troll post with the comments closed.
    Well done. Well done.

  288. 288

    in soviet russia, blogs troll you. what? wait. nevermind,

  289. 289
    David Moyes says:

    Re: ABL’s most recent post: The Rza is perhaps the most important musician of the 20th Century. Depending on where he chooses to take his career, he may very well end up being one of the most important philosophers of the 21st. Some might respectfully disagree, but I consider that anyone who disagrees strenuously is likely to be intellectually deficient (and quite possibly racist). For the record, I am excruciatingly in earnest. Wu-Tang Clan Ain’t Nuthing ta Fuck Wit!

  290. 290
    opal says:

    @Corner Stone:

    1) Who would you like to see elected president in 2012?

    2) Shouldn’t you be organizing for that individual instead of attaching yourself like a remora to a somewhat popular web site?

  291. 291
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @opal: No, dipshit. I was just trying to make it easy for you to Google up my comments. You know, to find the one in which I say something remotely racist.

    I just figured I’d give you a sporting chance to to find something, anything I’ve said that was racist. I was trying to give you an opportunity to prove what you said.

    Good job on providing validation to the rock-stupid right-wingers who like to claim that we on the left use the charge of racism as a shield against criticism. Not that the frighty-righties care about such things, mind you. I’m just saying that it’s generally best to not be a blatant hypocrite like the goopers. It’s part of being truthful.

    Or you could prove me wrong by quoting the racist thing I said. You won’t find it in the other thread in which I called myself an ABL fan, but maybe, somewhere in the depths of time, I said something that might prove your charge.

    Good luck finding it, jackass.

  292. 292

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:

    funnier than that, the crowdsourcing of funding for the nn trip. funny time to go all gawker media and all.

  293. 293
    catperson says:

    @David Moyes: This. I don’t think it’s quite as simple and easy as a calm discussion, but nothing changes without that.
    But I think if ABL wants to have those conversations she needs to see them through and not just lock down a thread because it upsets her. I get being upset enough to not want to keep participating–walk away, do something else, come back to it if you’re ready. What I don’t get is the need to completely shut down a conversation.
    And she really really needs to stop with the GBCWing.

  294. 294
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @catperson:

    But I think if ABL wants to have those conversations she needs to see them through and not just lock down a thread because it upsets her.

    This strikes me as a particularly unfair description of what happened. It’s not just as simple as “it upsets her.”

    Failure to understand that is part and parcel of the problem that some readers here have with understanding ABL’s posts.

  295. 295
    catperson says:

    @Caoimhe Snow: Okay. That was my impression from what I read in the comments thread. If there’s more to it, I’m happy to hear it.

  296. 296
    Corner Stone says:

    @opal:
    1) Your mom
    2) The $20 she charges is more than this free website

  297. 297
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:

    Or you could prove me wrong by quoting the racist thing I said. You won’t find it in the other thread in which I called myself an ABL fan, but maybe, somewhere in the depths of time, I said something that might prove your charge. Good luck finding it, jackass.

    Jrod, my fellow white person, what are you doing with this?

    Proclaiming loudly about how you’ve never been racist ever ever and how nobody could ever ever find anything you said which was racist? Um, yeah, that’s protesting more than a little too much. C’mon, stop patting yourself on the back for being so “non-racist” and take a few deep breaths.

    You don’t have to live up to the stereotype of a white liberal who absolutely loses his shit when called racist. Step back and step down if you’re going to take things so personally.

    (Also, the argument “stop playing into Their Hands by calling something racist when I, as a white person, clearly thinks it’s not!” is an ugly and misguided argument.)

  298. 298
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    This strikes me as a particularly unfair description of what happened. It’s not just as simple as “it upsets her.”

    I agree, and shutting down that particular thread was probably the right move. Her followup post with no comments allowed was a little less understandable. The third, now obviously trolling, post, also with no comments? A little dickish, IMO.

  299. 299
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Corner Stone:

    1) Your mom 2) The $20 she charges is more than this free website

    You’re a really disgusting human being.

  300. 300
    Corner Stone says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    You don’t have to live up to the stereotype of a white liberal who absolutely loses his shit when called racist. Step back and step down if you’re going to take things so personally

    That’s a nice tack.

  301. 301
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @fasteddie9318:

    The third, now obviously trolling, post, also with no comments? A little dickish, IMO.

    Yeah, but complaining about dickishness from a front-page poster on John Cole’s site is like …

    Crap, my analogy skills just failed me. Someone help me out here.

  302. 302
    Corner Stone says:

    @Caoimhe Snow: Yeah, you’ve covered yourself in glory here too, champ.

  303. 303
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @David Moyes:

    It seems that the blogger in question (I’m not a long-time reader) is seeking to perform the admirable task of getting those conversations going

    Unfortunately, that is not the case. While the ostensible themes of her posts are certainly conversations that need to be had, it quickly becomes apparent that her posts are simply a vessel for settling her personal vendettas. That’s why I stopped reading them, until today when I found out about the closed comments and decided that I needed to find out what it was all about.

    Note her most recent front page offering. It’s childish beyond belief, needless to say, inducing more pity than anger, and hardly seems a rational or effective way to start “conversations”. But John is on her side, which is fine as long as there is a quota of worthwhile material on the front page.

  304. 304
    Corner Stone says:

    Ok, so now we know. Don’t complain about a front pager being dickish, and don’t respond when someone calls you a racist.
    I guess Jesus Herself is posting here now, as we’re supposed to turn the other cheek and all.

  305. 305
    darkmatter says:

    Someone refresh my memory. Who is supposed to be thin-skinned: the whiners or ABL?

  306. 306
    Corner Stone says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    While the ostensible themes of her posts are certainly conversations that need to be had,

    I find the arguments bracing – and in themselves evidence that ABL’s proposal has already helped move the debate to more earnest grounds.

  307. 307
    Tonal Crow says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9: Oh-oh. Accusations of racism incoming in 5…4…3….

  308. 308
    different church-lady says:

    @darkmatter:

    Someone refresh my memory. Who is supposed to be thin-skinned: the whiners or ABL?

    Yes.

  309. 309
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Obama can’t win without African-Americans. He can’t win without Hispanics. He can’t win without women. He also can’t win without Latte Liberals.

    So, rather than trying to drive every last Latte Liberal into the arms of Ralph Nader it might make sense to try a different approach than, say, incessantly attacking Jane Hamsher or Joan Walsh or Glenn Greenwald (who is not technically a liberal but will be for the purposes of this conversation) in the most strident possible terms.

  310. 310
    slag says:

    @David Moyes: Funny. But still not quite getting the point. Which inevitably makes me think…JSF, is that you?

  311. 311
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @Caoimhe Snow:

    Jrod, my fellow white person, what are you doing with this?

    I’m pointing out that opal is entirely full of shit. I’d be doing the same if she called me a libertarian or a furry, because none of those are true either and there’s no good reason to think they are.

    By asking her to prove her claim, I was allowing that maybe I had slipped up and said something racist. I’m not perfect. Maybe I had said something stupid and racist at some point. In fact, here in meatspace, I’m quite certain I have.

    I’m just saying this: responding to an accusation of hypocrisy with, “Oh yeah? Well, you’re a racist!” is a bullshit tactic.

    Also, I wonder where, exactly, I “absolutely [lost my] shit.” Though I suppose asking about that makes me a homophobe or something.

  312. 312
    different church-lady says:

    @Corner Stone: By definition ABL cannot be a troll — she is content, here at the invitation of the person who owns this blog. That’s John’s call, and there’s not a lot you can say about it (although I’m not sure that will stop anyone from doing so anyway).

    The internet is not a democracy. Deal.

  313. 313
    Len says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9: He can win without Latte Liberals

  314. 314
    Caoimhe Snow says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:

    Also, I wonder where, exactly, I “absolutely [lost my] shit.” Though I suppose asking about that makes me a homophobe or something.

    What are you doing?

  315. 315
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Worst fucking series of threads ever.

  316. 316
    different church-lady says:

    @Caoimhe Snow: it’s a lot like everything else on the internet: ridiculous.

  317. 317
    different church-lady says:

    [redacted]

  318. 318
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    By the way, I meant that as a response to Opal @290.

  319. 319
    different church-lady says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    But John is on her side, which is fine as long as there is a quota of worthwhile material on the front page.

    John has this habit of changing his mind about things.

  320. 320
    David Moyes says:

    @slag: I’m truly, genuinely not trying to be funny. I really do feel that way about the Abbot. A not uncommon pub conversation is me drunkenly trying to make the case that the RZA will go down as one of the most important figures of the last 50 years.

  321. 321
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9: The Latte Liberals who are going Naderite are a small sampling of a comparatively small group. Most of them are and have always been Naderites. Look at the polling for Obama among self-described liberals. He is doing fine.

  322. 322
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @Caoimhe Snow: Calmly commenting. In a comment thread. About the stated topic of discussion.

    I’m sorry, but what’s the correct way to respond when someone calls you a racist without the tiniest shred of evidence to back it up in an obvious attempt to stifle legitimate criticism? Apologize for all the imaginary racist things you said and grovel for forgiveness?

    Seriously, again I ask: what did I ever say that justifies calling me a racist? It’s a simple question and should be easy to answer. And, if a racist quote of mine is found, I’ll cop to it and try to be better next time. Egalitarian behavior requires constant self-vigilance, after all. If I inadvertently made racist remarks, I want them pointed out to me, so I can avoid that mistake in the future.

    Help a guy out!

  323. 323
    Amir_Khalid says:

    @David Moyes: People are uncomfortable discussing race relations in just about every place where there are race relations to be discussed. It’s being going on in my own country Malaysia for many many decades, with no sign of resolution despite any number of worthy people saying it’s long past time we moved past our race-based political parties.

    It comes down to “our lot vs. your lot”, not always but all too often, and then petty grievances get dragged into it and then tempers flare all around and before you know it people are shouting and brawls break out, which is pretty much what happened in the threads here.

    Off topic, how’s the prep going for the this weekend’s away match at West Bromwich Albion?

  324. 324
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    I liek ABL. Shes like my cooler, more coherent, more legit older sistah.
    You juicers all lurve Taibbi– ABL is just the black grrl version of Matt Taibbi.
    Shes no more foul mouthed, profane and vituperative than Taibbi is.
    She adds a lot to Balloon Juice.
    ABL has stuff to say…and she says it with style.
    Shes authentic.
    And please more Wu-Tang links.
    shukran.

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    who is not technically a liberal

    Dayum straight Greenwald is not a liberal. Greenwald is a fucking libertarian. If you do not realize the horrific damage “libertarians” have done to America, then you have the IQ of a hay bale.

  325. 325
    Corner Stone says:

    @different church-lady: What? Of course an FP can troll. That’s silly to suggest otherwise.
    How do you think Tunch stays so damned beefy?

  326. 326
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @Ghanima Atreides: I do like ABL. My admiration for her doesn’t blind me to the fact that she and her defenders are being massive assholes today.

  327. 327
    Corner Stone says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: Showmhe is trolling.

  328. 328
    Baron Jrod of Keeblershire says:

    @Corner Stone: Who isn’t these days?

  329. 329
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: you probably didn’t say anything racist.
    most ppl here call me a racist because they don’t like what i say.
    for example, i’m not a racist unless christian and stupid are races now.
    ;)

  330. 330
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Corner Stone: An FPer can troll the blog, but cannot be a troll. It is a subtle, but important, distinction.*

    (* )Or not. What the fuck do I know? I like ABL as a general rule; I think she can be a bit over the top and emotion driven as a writer on occasion but that’s a personal preference surfacing not a criticism.

  331. 331
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire: we are all assholes on this bus.
    And ABL just linked the Wu-Tang, and shes going to see the Artist Formerly Known as Prince.
    If we behave she might share.
    ;)

  332. 332
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That’s not exactly my point. I fully expect liberals to go for Obama, insofar as they vote, and ABL’s best efforts to alienate them notwithstanding.

  333. 333
    David Moyes says:

    @Amir_Khalid: Training went well. Cahill and Arteta are (relatively) fit and Ossie’s playing the best football of his life. Probably have Coleman and Rodwell coming off the bench.

  334. 334
    Corner Stone says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh come on now.
    After the multiple episodes where she’s taken a ball and run off, closed comments but redirected to another site, then not 1 or 2 but 3 concurrent posts with closed comments?
    That’s a troll.

  335. 335
    Anton Sirius says:

    @fasteddie9318:

    A little dickish, IMO.

    No, it’s a lot dickish. Awesomely dickish. Relentlessly dickish, even.

    Ice Cube had a song about this, but I seem to have forgotten the title of it right at this moment.

  336. 336
    Anton Sirius says:

    @Len:

    He can win without Latte Liberals

    Especially if the definition of “Latte Liberal” is “FDL or Salon reader”.

  337. 337
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9: If ABL’s posts on race are going to drive some people away from voting for Obama, I have to say I would doubt that they were going to do it anyway. The FP troll, if it was that which I am now starting to doubt, is one of those things where if it’s not about you, it’s not about you and, if it is about you, maybe you should take a look in the mirror. (Second person used here but not aimed at you, Shoemaker-Levy 9). I don’t think that ABL is without fault here, but this has become ridiculous.

  338. 338
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Corner Stone: That’s trolling. There is a difference.

  339. 339
    Shoemaker-Levy 9 says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    If ABL’s posts on race are going to drive some people away from voting for Obama

    No, she is not capable of driving a measurable number of people away from Obama, my point is that Latte Liberals are part of the coalition, like it or not.

  340. 340
    Jane2 says:

    I’m on ABL’s side.

    Me too.

  341. 341
    Corner Stone says:

    @Jane2: Which is?

  342. 342
    Keith G says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I find the arguments bracing – and in themselves evidence that ABL’s proposal has already helped move the debate to more earnest grounds.

    I certainly believe that.

  343. 343
    Anton Sirius says:

    @Shoemaker-Levy 9:

    my point is that Latte Liberals are part of the coalition, like it or not.

    If they threaten to run off and vote for Nader/Gary Johnson/whichever nutbar tries to primary Obama, then no they aren’t part of the coalition.

    But even conceding their place in it, they are a much more insignificant part of the coalition than their egos will allow them to admit.

  344. 344
    taylormattd says:

    @opal: I’ll answer for him:

    (1) Whitey McWhiterson;
    (2) Organizing is too exhausting; I therefore support my white candidates by screaming about the evils of Obama on the internet.

  345. 345
    Anne Laurie says:

    @Ghanima Atreides:

    I liek ABL. Shes like my cooler, more coherent, more legit older sistah.

    Wow. That’s gonna leave a mark.

  346. 346
    Corner Stone says:

    @taylormattd: I already answered you fucking ball sucking punk bitch.
    Now go back to ball sucking town where you belong, you god damned fellatio king.

  347. 347
    Cassidy says:

    Shorter Corner Stone: “I’m important. Validate me…please. My right to being a douche in someone else’s house is being infringed”

  348. 348
    catperson says:

    @fasteddie9318: Were there comments deleted or something? I don’t see how shutting down the thread was the right thing to do. From what’s there now it seems like there was the beginning of an interesting discussion about the intersection of race/class/gender politics.

  349. 349
    Dustin says:

    @catperson: You’re right, it did have the makings of an interesting discussion. There’s just one problem: ABL, for all of her good qualities, is a thin-skinned Cartman wannabe when she thinks a conversation isn’t going her way. She’s always been this way that I can remember, though the thread locking is sure as hell a new escalation.

  350. 350
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cassidy: Meh, meh, my name’s Cassidy and I gots nothing.
    What a little weaksauce bitch you are. Bring something or go somewhere else.

  351. 351
    Dustin says:

    @Baron Jrod of Keeblershire:
    Anyone that feels a need to attack anything I’ve said here as racist has a funny definition of the term. If I were a religious man I’d ask them to go to hell, find a legitimate point of discussion, and then bring it back so we can get back to adult conversation. Most of the time though… I get stuck on the “go to hell” part. I have no time for racists, nor people who use lamentations of persecution as a shield from criticism.

    The fact of the matter is ABL broke a pretty major norm of community blogging by locking the comment thread. The actual content of the thread, and any arguments/slurs/trolling that may have occurred to cause the lock is entirely a secondary concern. If a blogger can’t handle things differently by slugging it out in the thread, walking away, or even selective banning they really don’t have any business blogging at a site that’s had open commenting for years.

    Now Cole or ABL’s other defenders may say something along the lines of “it’s not your blog, shut up” and they’d be right, if I demanded they follow my rules. But I’m not, I’m noting a violation of long-standing site community ethics.

  352. 352
    Anonne says:

    @Ghanima Atreides:

    Greenwald is a Civil Libertarian. That is different from your typical Ayn Rand worshiping idiot.

  353. 353
    opal says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I already answered you fucking ball sucking punk bitch

    You certainly did. In the most constructive manner possible.

  354. 354
    Corner Stone says:

    @opal: Thank you. I appreciate that.

  355. 355
    catperson says:

    @Dustin: This has me thinking about ownership of text and the various way bloggers can try to exert that. But I suspect that interests no one other than me. ;-)

  356. 356
    brad says:

    I’m torn between the juvenile urge to love the lulz of people making that xkcd toon an eternal classic (you know the one) and the desire for BJ to keep its collective energies more focused on being such a damn good blog.
    FWIW, I’m glad ABL is here and doing the things she does. I don’t always read her posts, and sometimes I find myself in more or less total agreement with them, but the reason I like her are the posts that piss me off and/or prick my white privilege bubble, precisely because they force me out of it a bit. She’s like a funnier, cooler, way more self-aware version of Twisty Faster, at least from my somewhat selfish, reductionist perspective. She forces me to think, to ask myself if I’m disagreeing because I genuinely disagree or because I’ve been lazy and insulated in my thinking on the topic in question. If she wants to close the occasional thread so as to spare herself being lashed out at for having given someone the pain of a moment’s self-recognition, she’s earned it in my book.
    Which is not to justify everything she’s ever said and done, but it ain’t about me or my standards, never has been.
    And since I’m ranting into the ether, let me say GG makes me sad. He’s a strong and sometimes effective voice on an important and marginalized issue (civil liberties), but he marginalizes himself by being so strident and holier than thou. The issue all too often becomes him, which really shouldn’t be the point.

  357. 357
    Spencer says:

    I didn’t follow much of this bullshit but i like ABL. More after this latest round of bullshit. Anyone who effortlessly pisses off that many stupid white people at once is OK in my book.

  358. 358
    Ija says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    Bravo, Anne Laurie. We know how much you hate ABL anyway, probably as much as you hated ED Kain. You’ve been quite subtle about it, but it’s clear anyway WHy not just come out and say it like you did with ED? That would be more respectful IMO rather than this passive-aggressive bullshit What’s the matter, afraid ABL would respond in a more aggressive manner than Kain’s meek “I know Anne Laurie never liked me anyway” response?

  359. 359
    eemom says:

    @Ija:

    wow, you’re really an asshole. I can like TOTALLY see now why everybody hates you. Everybody who pays attention to your comments, anyway. Which is like, nobody.

  360. 360
    Dustin says:

    @Spencer: And yet those “stupid white people” (most of whom actually had valid points of discussion, if you’d bothered to read the threads) are the ones who get called racist while also being slurred because of their race… typical. You do realize you’re just as bad with that statement as the notorious “you people” incident from not that long ago, right?

    Or are you a follower of the frame of thought that it’s impossible for white people to be anything but privileged? Because I’ve got to tell you from my upbringing as a lower class 3rd generation Irish immigrant that not all white people are WASP Ivy Leaguers. The difference between being shit on for being dirt poor and being shit on for being black doesn’t seem all that great when you’re still being shit on.

    Could I have dressed up in a nice suit, crafted a high quality education resume, and gotten myself a cushy job easier because of my white skin? Sure, I imagine I could. Only a few problems.

    First, I’d need to be able to afford that nice suit, which I couldn’t and still can’t. Then I’d have to find a way to fake my degree because it wasn’t until my mid twenties that I made anywhere close to enough to go to college, so that’s out.

    I literally survived for years on meals consisting of little more than a mouthful of frozen peas, rehydrated beans, a large glass of water, and a mouthful of cooked cheap hamburger (if I was lucky). I couldn’t afford any better, because I couldn’t afford the degree to provide me any career beyond physical laborer. The only way I got out of that situation was by fighting my way up the promotion ladder for 10 years before I finally made management and started making enough money to put my wife through college. I hope to have her return the favor, and then we’ll see where fate takes us.

    But then, I suppose, you probably stopped reading my little rant after the first line. I am after all just another stupid white people bitching about being called racist because I’m not sufficiently dark to discuss issues pertaining to race. Hell, I never even got a chance to call shenanigans on the blatantly racist picture that started this whole whinefest. Not that I would, because it’s ABL’s prerogative as author to seed conversation however she sees fit.

    The issue isn’t that her ideas pissed off the commenters, it’s that she played a Cartman and locked the tread. It was a chicken-shit move and doing so still is. It goes against the very nature of this community, and that is why she got the reaction she did.

  361. 361
    Ija says:

    @eemom:

    What’s the matter, bored with the lack of law-related threads where you can brag about your 27 years experience of whatever it is? Don’t worry, a lot of decisions are coming from SCOTUS soon, you can brag and complain about other people’s stupidity to your heart’s content.

  362. 362
    Spencer says:

    @Dustin:

    i read it. it sounds like you are really pissed off at the world because there are black people more successful than you!

  363. 363
    Dustin says:

    @Spencer: Hardly, though if that’s what you got from it you’re more of an idiot than I gave you credit for.

  364. 364
    Brian says:

    @John Cole:

    ABL’s posts are incoherent, fine; her latest post is just trollery. Enjoy your community getting trolled if you want — you’re kind of a jerk at times — but don’t try to pretend all the issues are “ABL haters”. And closing comments kills community pretty much by definition.

    *McArdle* accepts comments, for pete’s sake.

  365. 365
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Brian: no she doesnt.
    I’m perma-banned there.
    McMeghan only accepts some comments.
    All rightwing sites ban commenters that interfere with their information coccoon.
    Name one that doesn’t, i double dawg dare you.

  366. 366
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Anne Laurie: heh. well you are sorta my intellectual clone older sistah absent the overprivileged upbringing.
    You even said that.
    ABL pricks my white privilege bubble alla time. Its good for me, its a growth experience.
    When i was growing up the only black people I saw were the bahamians when we went to my parents Port Lucaya condo.
    ABL and TNC are portals into a different metaverse for me.
    I would never be ungrateful for the perspective they bring–im in absolute awe of them.
    And you whiners should shut the fuck up about EDK. He did what he always did here–ran like a WATB scalded cat rather than defend his freemarket glibertarian crapology. He couldn’t pass for a liberal even with fhtagen and MattR and superluminar live-coaching him. Go read him at the LoOG.
    Hey, take the test!
    Mebbe you too are a crypto-libertarian.

  367. 367
  368. 368
    debit says:

    @Dustin: White privilege doesn’t mean your entire white life is supposed to have been easy. It means that by courtesy of your white skin, you have certain advantages a black person doesn’t, period. I was born lower middle class, with periods of actual poverty in my childhood, and had periods of borderline starvation during my young adult years. That means I probably would have mugged you for your handful of peas, Dustin. I’m also white.

    Being white means I’ve never had someone get up and leave their seat on the bus if I sat down next to them, as I’ve seen when a black guy sat next to a white person. Being white means if I call in sick on a Monday, I’m fairly confident my co-workers don’t raise a cupped hand and make glug glug motions, as I’d seen them do when we had an American Indian co-worker call in sick. Being white means that I can walk into pretty much any store and not have security very obviously follow me. I could go on, but if you don’t get the picture by now, I doubt you ever will.

  369. 369
    Ghanima Atreides says:

    @Anonne: well that is the point of the Unified Field Theory of Libertarianism. I KNOW Greenwald is a civil libertarian.

    The Greenwald Axiom of Libertarian Field Theory.
    Any pundit that claims to be a libertarian in 21st century america will also claim that Obama=Bush on civil liberties.
    The Paul Corrollary to the Greenwald Axiom—alternatively, said pundit will claim that Obama is WORSE than Bush on civil liberties, because Obama knows better and/or should know better.

  370. 370
    Cassidy says:

    @Corner Stone: Too easy. Email me your address. I’ll be happy to come to you, beat your ass in front of your family, humiliate you for being pathetic excuse of a man, feed you your liver and videotape it for prosperity. I have some leave time coming up.

    Put your money where your bravado is bitch.

  371. 371
    Donald says:

    ” He’s a strong and sometimes effective voice on an important and marginalized issue (civil liberties), but he marginalizes himself by being so strident and holier than thou. The issue all too often becomes him, which really shouldn’t be the point.”

    Glenn has personal flaws. But no one who cares about the issues he writes about should care about this.

  372. 372
    Dustin says:

    @debit: I’m well aware of this, but that’s not the issue. What happens so often instead is that conversations devolve into telling someone who’s been shit on their whole life for being in poverty that they’re not allowed to comment on a topic because the other person got shit on more. This does nothing but shut down legitimate conversation. That is why arguments against white privilege so often fall on deaf ears. It’s like arguing evolution with a creationist; the words may be the same but the underlying definitions are completely different. Failing to recognize that different understanding is often the root of many a white person’s “oh yeah, fuck you and the horse you road in on” reaction to the issue.

    Observations of white privilege are completely correct, and great in intellectual discussion, but when presented to someone not studied in them and struggling to provide for their family they come across as complete bullshit. This is especially common among certain demographics (i.e. sociology 101 college freshman born and raised in suburbia) who have it their head that white privilege really is more than just a cultural stereotype, that white people really do have no grounds to complain about their life because they “obviously” had it easy by virtue of their skin tone. This is compounded even more when conversation devolves into hillbilly stereotypes and “cracker” commentary.

    I know because for years I was told just that by my college-bound friends, and now that my wife is in college I’m immersed in it all over again. It was only by engaging in the types of discussion that ABL shut down that I fully understood both sides of the issue. Growing out of my early 20’s probably helped too, but only so much. This whole problem stems from a failure of empathy. Both sides get offended, and both sides are right to be so offended. The only problem is they’re both viewing things from their perspective alone.

  373. 373
    Ija says:

    This is especially common among certain demographics (i.e. sociology 101 college freshman born and raised in suburbia) who have it their head that white privilege really is more than just a cultural stereotype, that white people really do have no grounds to complain about their life because they “obviously” had it easy by virtue of their skin tone.

    Both sides get offended, and both sides are right to be so offended. The only problem is they’re both viewing things from their perspective alone.

    Who are the “both sides” here? Surely you are not saying that all sociology 101 college freshman are black people?

  374. 374
    Paul in KY says:

    @Ghanima Atreides: I lieks it! Thanks.

  375. 375
    Paul in KY says:

    @rootless_e: It does. I was singing it to the tune & it flowed quite nicely.

Comments are closed.