Anti-White Bias on the Rise? Really? Oy vey.

I’m just a squirrel tryin’ ta get a nut.

A recent study indicates that white folks see race relations as a zero sum game, i.e., if black people get an inch, white people lose an inch.

From the Wall Street Journal:

Both white Americans and black Americans perceive significant progress in the fight against anti-black bias, but white Americans believe the progress has come at their expense, a new survey finds.

The researchers contacted a random national sample of 209 whites and 208 blacks, and asked them how much discrimination each group faced, on a scale of one to ten, for each decade since the 1950s.

Black Americans saw anti-black bias as declining steadily, from 9.7 in the ’50s to 6.1 in the ’00s. Over the same period, they perceived a small increase in anti-white bias, from 1.4 to 1.8.

White Americans saw an even steeper decline in anti-black bias: from 9.1, in the ’50s, to 3.6, in the ’00s. But more striking, according to the researchers, was the sharp increase in perceived anti-white bias: Among whites, it shot up from 1.8 to 4.7.

White Americans, in short, thought that anti-white bias was a greater societal problem by the ’00s than anti-black bias.

The researchers described the pattern—which did not vary markedly with regard to age or education levels—as evidence that white Americans see race relations as a zero-sum game, in which one group’s gains must be offset by another’s loss.

Really?

Like, really really?

A friend (and one-time ABLC contributor) had this to say about zero-sum game thinking with respect to feminism:

My privilege, which comes from labeling me as “advantaged,” means that I am not normal. I suppose there is an underlying idea that there is no such thing as “normal,” but if that is the case, then what is left? Advantaged or disadvantaged? I’m not sure that’s a message most feminists want to convey. It hearkens back to that same zero-sum thinking that says there can only be a win or lose situation, and if I win, then you lose; if I am advantaged, then you must be disadvantaged, and if somehow you were to gain advantage, then that would take away from my advantage. For example, if we allow same-sex marriages, that will some how take away from the marriage of heterosexual people; we can’t all have the same things, at the same level.

Well, if that’s the case, then what the hell am I fighting for?

Exactly. What the hell are we fighting for? Sometimes, I’m not sure anymore.

Over the past two years, I’ve thought about race and racism and racial relations seventy-eleven percent more than I did during the Bush administration.  Maybe it’s because I checked out for a few years when Bush was elected.  I thought to myself, “just hang on ’til 2004.”  And then when Bush was re-elected, I thought “just hang until 2008.”   (Certainly I never imagined that 2008 would usher in the Era of Obama, or the simultaneous joy and ass-itch that the Era has brought.)  We’re always just “hanging on” until the next thing.  Where’s the promise of stability and normalcy?

It seems that this country is split between crazy people (with whom I cannot even have a rational conversation because what they believe to be fact is propaganda), and slightly less crazy people who are viciously fighting amongst themselves over any number of issues.  If you are, like I am, an active member of the Twitterati and the Online Political Clusterfuck, you know precisely what I’m talking about.  (Hell, if you’re reading this right now, you know what I’m talking about.)

Half the country is beholden to a party that has pledged to one fucking guy — this Grover Norquist character — never to raise taxes.  NEVER.  EVER.

HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

Currently, the idiots in Congress are playing Russian roulette with the global economy, meanwhile the mouth-breathers at Fox News are slagging Common for being “a vile rapper.”

HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?

Half of the country gets their news from Fox “News” or “their neighbor who gets it from the computer.”  Up until a couple weeks ago, the most pressing issue of our time was the birthplace and legitimacy of our President.

Was he born in Hawaii?

Is Hawaii a state?

Was his father an anti-colonialist?

Is he the Manchurian candidate?

Is he or is he not Kenyan, and if he’s not, exactly how Kenyan is he?

Seriously —

What the hell is going on ?  What the hell are we fighting for?  Is it to get through the next 4, 8, or 10 years until people figure out that they will most likely never be rich and famous so they should quit voting against their interests?  Is it to upturn the Monopoly board and call a mulligan?  Is it to rise up against our plutocratic overlords?  Is it to grow Bieber-hair and move to Canada?  Is it to score a point in the “How Do We Solve a Problem Like The War on Terra” debate which moves inexorably towards an all-out grudge match despite the biting irony that it’s a war that none of us thinks is real in the first goddamn place?

What are we doing?  What are we fighting for?

I don’t know.  It’s the end of a long day, and I’m tired.

Maybe I’ll just make a sandwich and watch Archer.1

1And by “make a sandwich and watch Archer,” I mean “make a sandwich, turn on Archer, and then pause it to get embroiled in some Twitter shenanigans.”  I’m nothing if not predictable.

[image via the parody (I think, but I’m tired) Facebook Group Angry, Bitter, Frustrated, and Repressed White Men]

[cross-posted in my Glass House]

103 replies
  1. 1
    Hunter Gathers says:

    If you think shit is crazy right now, wait 20 years when the demographic timer goes off, and we become a majority minority nation. Whitey’s gonna really lose his shit then. It will make the stupid crap that passes for political discourse these days seem like a mild delirium.

  2. 2
    General Stuck says:

    Cue our little miscreant progs whining about another thread on race and racism. Keep up the beatings ABL, until moral improves. Yur doin it rite.

  3. 3
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    the simultaneous joy and ass-itch

    You sure know how to coin a campaign slogan.

  4. 4
    Citizen_X says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: That one jumped out at me, too.

    And ABL, honey? It’s worse than you think: Archer has already finished its season. I’m in mourning.

  5. 5
    Joe Beese says:

    I’m picturing the equivalent of this graphic on a right-wing site.

    A cartoonishly ugly black man with captions mocking his hair and skin color by linking them to crude stereotypes.

    You have a real taste for this kind of gutter approach, ABL. Bill O’Reilly would approve.

  6. 6
    greennotGreen says:

    Since the study isn’t on line yet, I can’t read it, but I doubt that it shows that “white Americans” believe x and “black Americans” believe y. Probably it shows that more white Americans believe x than black Americans do, and more black Americans believe y than white Americans do. Based on, btw, a sample of 417 people.

  7. 7
    Martin says:

    @Hunter Gathers: I’m not so sure. CA is already there, and yeah, the white minority has dug in pretty hard, but politically, that minority status is really starting to show in a big way.

    The Latino population at CA universities is just exploding. Up 50% both last year and again this year. That’s not an outlier – most of the Latino population out here is under 20. 50% of all babies born in the state are Latino. The GOP is right on the cusp of being about as relevant to CA politics as the Green Party is.

    I’m not saying there aren’t race issues here, but as we cross the majority minority rubicon they aren’t getting worse.

  8. 8
    Martin says:

    @Joe Beese: I thought you should know: Stephen Colbert is not really a Republican. I know you won’t believe that, but it’s true.

  9. 9
    burnspbesq says:

    @ ABL:

    Is it to get through the next 4, 8, or 10 years until people figure out that they will most likely never be rich and famous so they should quit voting against their interests?

    Boy, are you an optimist. It took the Catholics and Protestants in Ulster 300 years to figure out who the real enemy was.

  10. 10
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    Holy shit, that is a photo of my wingnut brother in Modesto.

    No, really. REALLY.

    The only thing they got wrong is that he’s actually not a racist, at all, but he’s every other kind of wrong and he’s an engineer, to boot, which means his only form of argument is to shout “prove it! Prove it!” whenever he’s confronted with facts that don’t fit his Faux World View.

    Also, his hair only looks like that when he wakes up in the morning.

  11. 11
    BR says:

    ABL – I’m with you on the content, but the picture rubs me the wrong way. (And I say this as a brown guy.)

  12. 12

    > Exactly. What the hell are we fighting for? Sometimes, I’m not sure anymore.

    It sounds like you’re going around the old left dilemma of the debate between if the primary goal should be:

    1) insure that the relatively few top economic winner slots have the same (long-shot) odds for everyone no matter race, gender, etc. This is the zero-sum option (roughly).

    2) change the structure of the economic system to be more even, where race, gender, etc. are primarily divide-and-conquer tactics of the current system. This is not zero-sum, but it does have some big redistributions (and the few people most negatively affected wield the most power currently).

  13. 13
    anna missed says:

    Yeah well… after (just under) 200 years of “enjoying” a certain and not insignificant level of privilege, white folks see their position eroding at the same time anti-black bias is falling. Sorta says that all that time white folks were “enjoying” that privilege, they were at the same time all too aware that their position of privilege was due to in some measure, to the disadvantaged position black folks were in.

    By comparison, black folks don’t see the fall in anti-black bias as having anything to due with disadvantaging white folks.

    This would seem to confirm that white folks are indexing their respective (and expected) position from the former privileged position, as opposed to the black index, of simply having a better relative and more EQUAL position within context.

    It would also confirm that the white position has nothing to do with fairness, equality, objectivity, or merit.

    And finally, it would also confirm how this attitude telegraphs and informs the perverse institution of right wing “victimization”.

    How does this make sense? It isn’t about sense.

  14. 14
    Mark S. says:

    It’s the end of a long day, and I’m tired.

    I don’t suggest ending it by reading this train wreck of a thread.

  15. 15
    piratedan says:

    Why is it that these guys (R’s, bigots, libertarians, et al) always think that there is a finite limit to ideas and concepts and an infinite supply of resources that have limits?

    What I mean by that is why do they feel that there is only so much wealth to go around, only so much justice, only so many rights, why do people think like that? Why does there have to be a bar/limit on the amount of success that is available? Please enlighten me…. Why does the concept of minorities having rights mean that the majority loses any? How come they feel that when I have success that it somehow diminishes them? Why do they buy into this zero-sum bullshit?

    Conversely, why do people think that there’s an infinite supply of oil, gas and water to be exploited when we live on only one planet (allegedly) and we know that is is not completely comprised of oil reserves and natural gas?

    Why do the most profitable companies in a free market economy need government subsidies, yet people wanting to start new businesses to provide additional jobs and new possibilities for success and personal service can’t get loans? Why can’t we think big? Why not have light rail? Why can’t we improve and modify our infrastructure? Why can’t we embrace the future instead of clinging rabidly to what hasn’t been working for the last 30 years?

    beats the hell outta me…..

  16. 16
    mullaney says:

    It would be great if Obama would use the bully pulpit to have a “Hey white people, we need to talk about white privilege…” moment. Unfortunately between the High Broderism and the Palinism I imagine that the conversation would be derailed in five seconds flat.

    Clearly, it would be even greater if white people took it upon themselves to get their collective shit together about fixing the racist attitudes and actions of white people.

    Also, too magical sparkle ponies for everyone.

  17. 17
    ABL says:

    @Joe Beese: keep fuckin’ that chicken!

    @BR: it rubs me the wrong way too. i did that thing where you go “that’s not right!” and then you read some of the captions and laugh and then feel bad for laughing.

    That’s the thing though. When I posted it, I thought “that shit ain’t right” but I was interested to see what the reaction would be, since the photo posted by dennis last week garnered the typical “that’s not racist response.”

    Seriously Joe. You’re a hypocrite and a nitwit and a jerk (to put it kindly), and I care about you or your opinion of me about as much as I care about figuring out whether the chicken came first.

  18. 18
    Little Boots says:

    We’re a sensitive people.

    but really, this shit is embarrassing.

  19. 19
    ABL says:

    @anna missed: Very insightful. Thanks.

  20. 20

    @ABL:

    What the hell are we fighting for? Sometimes, I’m not sure anymore.

    Sometimes the fight for the things you believe in has to be enough, because the alternative is despair.

    Hello, my dear. I hope you are well. I was very happy to hear about your new job.

    I know I keep referring to Jane Elliot in your threads, but this seems apposite for something. Here, she runs her “last” large scale “Blue eyed, brown eyed” workshop, this time in the UK, and with oddly uncomfortable and frustrating, yet fascinating, results.

    /edited for extra cynicism

    /Better youtube version:

    Part 1

    Part 2

    Part 3

    Part 4

  21. 21
    Mark S. says:

    @ABL:

    Joe is very sensitive to anti-white racism and he hates Obama. I don’t know what conclusions one could draw from that.

  22. 22
    Danceswithwords says:

    I wonder how much poll results like these are influenced by FOX “News” coverage, which has been hammering the drum of “DARK PEOPLE ARE COMING TO TAKE YOUR STUFF” particularly heavily since Obama’s election. A lot of people don’t watch FOX, but the subsection of the population that does tends to absorb their messages straight into the brain stem.

    Granted, I live on the Left Coast. More specifically, I live in San Francisco, which is 1/3 Asian and also has a large Latino population. And I work in Silicon Valley, where I am often the only European-descended woman in the room in meetings. And you know what? We have a bunch of fantastic Asian and Latin American and Indian food, and that’s pretty much the only result I can see from that situation.

  23. 23
    Little Boots says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall:

    at best, at our best, we’re fighting for the working class, in general, not any subset thereof. but that’s hard to sustain, at least in this country. but I think in general, we’re fighting for that. there are many, many injustices against many minority groups, but if we can do that, we usually are on the right side of history.

  24. 24
    ABL says:

    @Mark S.: Oh crap, now you’re gonna force me to read it, aintcha?

  25. 25
    ABL says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall: Hello! I heard rumors you might go to NN11?

    I tend to get melodramatic as the evening wanes, but tomorrow is a new day! My life is less stressful now that I am doing good work instead of the devil’s bidding.

  26. 26
    Mark S. says:

    @ABL:

    Oh shit, it’s not really worth it, especially mclaren’s dissertation-length diatribe.

    It was a tad over the top.

  27. 27
    Fred says:

    You people take the bait EVERY SINGLE TIME. Everytime the white wing dangles these scooby snacks in front of you, you go for it.

    They are baiting you with divisive issues. The Rapper in the white house. Blah blah yada yada.

    You all deserve the blame just as much as the white wing echo chamber because if you just ignored their nonsense and let them wallow in their own filth they wouldn’t get anywhere and they would stop doing it. But no, you fall for it EVERY SINGLE TIME.

  28. 28
    Little Boots says:

    @ABL:

    I sorta like melodramatic. but that’s just me, or not. I think a lot of people like that, especially on these here internets, especially this time of night. and ABL, you got that honesty thing going on. which is always appreciated.

  29. 29
    ABL says:

    @Mark S.: Oh, I know. He is a nutter. I just couldn’t resist the chicken joke. ;)

  30. 30
    Little Boots says:

    @Fred:

    oh it’s fucking midnight. of course we want to talk about silly shit. it happens.

  31. 31
    ABL says:

    @Little Boots: Thanks. I appreciate it.

  32. 32
    ABL says:

    @Fred: “you people”?

    Really.

  33. 33
    General Stuck says:

    @ABL:

    That thread might have finally given me the lobotomy of my blogging nightmares. Take some wooden stakes and a wreath of garlic cloves to put that sucker to rest

  34. 34
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Danceswithwords: I think had this study been done in 1985 or 1995 or 2005, or any point in between, the results on the white side of the table would have measured about the same. This was the message of Rush long before there was a Fox News, and also every TV evangelist I could remember. It was the argument of the college Republicans when I was in college. Agreement that at least African Americans faced bias in the past and that it had declined…but now the problem was reversed.

    Milage may differ on the reasons, but if you read the comments section of the WSJ blog, you get a good sense of why there hasn’t been any movement. Article is about bias perceptions, but the commentators want to talk about the crime rate, ethnic gangs, welfare. Certainly they want to solve those problems.

  35. 35
    Little Boots says:

    @ABL:

    well, I love your posts.

    I really do.

  36. 36

    @ABL:

    NN11

    Just rumors, I’m afraid.

    That weekend the entire RNC is coming round to Shady Pines to try and scrounge some more money out of us, so I need to organize my baking for the weekend. I want to see what secrets Reince Priebus gives up with 1000µg of LSD under his belt.

  37. 37
    mullaney says:

    @Fred: Really? Well, maybe, but between Bacon’s Rebellion and 2011 I have yet to see evidence of the white racist superstructure being all “well, this is no fun, I guess I’ll just stop being racist”. I think it’s more “let’s exploit every opportunity to divide folks” than anything else.

    I think being part of the Personally Offended Industrial Complex doesn’t really benefit anyone, but taking moments of stupidity and shifting the discussion to privilege in all its forms is a nice thing.

    @Danceswithwords: Congratulations on knowing people of color. Would you like a certificate or a medal? I look forward to the day when the white progressive response to issues of race is no longer listing the different ethnic restaurants that you enjoy.

  38. 38
    Mark S. says:

    OT–Is Jeb Bush really thinking about running or is this just his fanboys getting excited?

  39. 39
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Fred: I don’t think they dangle those scooby snacks for our benefit. I don’t think they care if we take their bait or not.

  40. 40
    Little Boots says:

    @Mark S.:

    if by fanboys you mean Babs, yeah, it’s just fanboys.

  41. 41

    @Fred: +?

    @ABL: I didn’t need a study to tell me the zero sum thing. But I’m glad there’s a study that
    proves the zero sum thing. If you follow me.

    Nice GG post/thread, bee tee dubs. I enjoy the lawyerfight.

  42. 42
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    I’m aware that in a whole lot of significant ways, white people are better off than black people. But I also think there’s a very large, probably well above a majority of white people who would stand to benefit from a more equal, egalitarian society. The trick is convincing them of it. One thing I’ve taken away from this blog (although this being Balloon Juice, I’m not sure if there’s any actual agreement on it per se) is that the only war that really matters is the class war. Black vs. white, gay vs. straight, etc., don’t matter at their core, and in many cases are a deliberate distraction by the malefactors of wealth.

  43. 43
    Church Lady says:

    That picture is all kinds of fucked up.

  44. 44
    Yutsano says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): I don’t care how fucking juicy the mangoes look, I am sure as fuck not getting out of this damn boat. And you can’t make me. So neener.

    @Sarah Proud and Tall:

    I want to see what secrets Reince Priebus gives up with 1000µg of LSD under his belt.

    Dearheart, milquetoast is still milquetoast no matter how much chemical enhancement you give him. I’d even lay a twenty Reince has never had an orgasm. Not even over torture pr0n.

  45. 45
    Little Boots says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    well said. yeah, this is the dilemma in this country. getting people to stop identifying with very rich people and their servants who do not give a shit about the vast majority of them.

  46. 46

    @Mark S.:

    Is Jeb Bush really thinking about running or is this just his fanboys getting excited desperate?

    FTFY

  47. 47
    Mandramas says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: You’re right; racism is a tool of division, but it is a very effective tool. Only way to disable it is a cultural change, and discussion is a good tool of cultural change.

  48. 48
    ABL says:

    “You people.”

    Wow.

    I’m done commenting over here. I will post because I think I have interesting shit to say about various things and whatnot, and I like that some enjoy my posts, but I’m done commenting over here.

    Whether it’s trolling, or outright racism, or “wait your turn” politics, I’m so over it.

    You know where to find me.

    Peace.

  49. 49
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Yutsano:

    http://www.blogcdn.com/www.pol.....011411.jpg

    I’d take that bet, seeing as how he’s apparently a prematurely-gray 10-year-old.

  50. 50
    Martin says:

    Being the parent of children that I am, I don’t see many movies in theaters. So, I see that 2012 got 2 1/2 stars and turn it on. Holy fuck – did they invent a new movie rating system just for this film? This is horrible. I’m struggling to find a way to mask this memory. I may have to cut off my arm with one of my shoelaces.

  51. 51
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Zero sum thinking is the hallmark of the very limited mind.

    Which explains a lot of fucktard white people.

  52. 52

    @Yutsano:

    Hello darlin’.

    You might be surprised about Reince. Btw, did you see my morning post on the NYT primary porn? I even managed to make people at the GOS laugh!

  53. 53

    @ABL:

    To be fair, I think the “You people” was a badly chosen phrase, but not one used with actual racist intent.

    /could be wrong

  54. 54
    Fred says:

    @mullaney: So you are just going to throw more gasoline on the fire because it helps?

  55. 55
    Yutsano says:

    @ABL: You’d better at least peek over here, cause I’ll be damned if I’m gonna let some asshole run you off. DO. NOT. LET. HIM. WIN. If you go, he’s vindicated, even if it’s only in his brain matter.

    @Fred:

    You all deserve the blame just as much as the white wing echo chamber because if you just ignored their nonsense and let them wallow in their own filth they wouldn’t get anywhere and they would stop doing it.

    Go back. Read this sentence you wrote again very carefully. Then come back when you realize just what a douchey thing it is you’ve said here.

    @Sarah Proud and Tall: I’ve missed a lot of the good stuff lately. Who knew preparing to get a body part replaced took so many fucking doctor visits? No wonder Medicare costs are so damn high.

  56. 56
    Fred says:

    @ABL: Yea, ‘you people’. You gullible, gullible people.

  57. 57
    Fred says:

    @Yutsano: Maybe if I drank a few ounces of Jagermeister, spun around a couple times and pissed on the carpet it would make YOU understand better?

  58. 58
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @ABL:

    I will post because I think I have interesting shit to say about various things and whatnot want more page views

    Why on earth would you keep associating with a site you consider racist? What does that get you? Either cut the drama and leave, or get Cole to seriously deal with the problem.

    Though I did not see Exclamation Point Fred being the one to drive you off. Stunner really.

  59. 59
    Yutsano says:

    @Bob Loblaw: Fuck. Off. Asshole.

    @Fred: No, I’m afraid there’s no help for you. This is something you’ll have to figure out on your own.

    Although if you think the Jager thing will do something for you by all mean feel free.

  60. 60
    Lysana says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall:

    To be fair, I think the “You people” was a badly chosen phrase, but not one used with actual racist intent.

    That’s a non sequitur. When “you people” is clearly directed at a group of people of color, it’s racist. It separates them from the rest of humanity, speaks of them as a collective with no respect for individuality, and dismisses any real concerns as the rantings of a group that’s clearly not intelligent enough to handle reality.

  61. 61
    Marmot says:

    @ABL: Uh, are you pissed at the same dude–Fred–who was enraged about the “white wing”? Am I crazy thinking that maybe you’re misinterpreting?

  62. 62
    Lysana says:

    @Fred: Don’t you have sheets to bleach?

  63. 63
    Yutsano says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall: mclaren total non sequitur and all? And yeah I did catch that, although life decided to intervene.

    @Lysana: Oh yeah, and, THIS.

  64. 64

    @Lysana:

    When “you people” is clearly directed at a group of people of color

    See that’s where we may disagree. I’m not defending what Fred said, merely saying that I took “you people” (again, a loaded and unfortunate choice of term) to refer to liberal bloggers, not specifically black liberal bloggers.

    Fred is still a dickhead, though, as anyone with a functioning brain wouldn’t use the term to address a black author, so, whatever.

    /edited for clarity

  65. 65
    Rihilism says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    One thing I’ve taken away from this blog (although this being Balloon Juice, I’m not sure if there’s any actual agreement on it per se) is that the only war that really matters is the class war. Black vs. white, gay vs. straight, etc., don’t matter at their core, and in many cases are a deliberate distraction by the malefactors of wealth.

    I think it depends on how you define “matter”. Racism can be an effective tool to distract from class (I’m not entirely clear how gay vs. straight is a stand-in for class warfare), but I think that racism and homophobia matter regardless of whether or not they are convenient cudgels. It most definitely matters to the people experiencing discrimination due to racism or homophobia…

  66. 66

    @Yutsano:

    mclaren total non sequitur and all?

    Heavens, I didn’t even notice that. His drugs must have been on the fritz.

    No wonder Medicare costs are so damn high.

    It’s people like you who make it so the Republicans have to abolish hospitals for the good of the country.

  67. 67
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Rihilism:

    Yeah, I don’t mean it in a “your problems aren’t important like mine” sense, but rather that by focusing on the core problem, an unequal and inegalitarian society, we can wipe out your problems and my problems at once.

    Also, I’m getting an “Erickson and Trump, 1-on-1” banner ad from some winger site. Am I wrong in hoping that it’s the “two enter, one leaves” variety of 1-on-1?

  68. 68
    Martin says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Maybe it’s more of a girl-on-girl variety of 1-on-1?

  69. 69

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Erickson and Trump, 1-on-1

    Horrifyingly, it is true. I’m sharpening my pencils as we speak.

    /ETA:

    Fellow Patriot, Thank you for signing up to the RedState.com FREE webcast. The link to access the LIVE webcast will be emailed to this email address prior to the event.
    Sincerely,
    Editor, RedState.com
    RedState Morning Briefing

  70. 70
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall:

    Oh, delightful!

    @Martin:

    You, on the other hand, shall not be forgiven for bringing that image into the world.

  71. 71

    @Spaghetti Lee: Ha! You put your daddy’s gavel down!

    @Yutsano: Dude. Seriously. I am below decks on the SS Yutsano.

  72. 72
    Yutsano says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall:

    Heavens, I didn’t even notice that.

    Well a lady of your age and demeanor can’t be expected to notice EVERYTHING.

    @Martin:

    Maybe it’s more of a girl-on-girl variety of 1-on-1?

    Heh. You should be so lucky. But I would pay if the combover ate Erik bin Erik.

  73. 73
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Trump, if I remember correctly, once wrestled Vince McMahon with his hairpiece on the line. Erick Erickson is a pudgy guy who wrote away to Charles Atlas after an incident in school, but couldn’t be bothered to do the exercises. I’ll lay odds on Trump.

  74. 74
    Suffern ACE says:

    By the way, those articles that Ms. Tall referenced this morning in her post – were those in the actual New York Times or just posted as rambling blogs for online readers only. People aren’t paying for those opinions, are they?

  75. 75

    @Yutsano: Ha! that’s his/her screed from ABL’s thread. mclaren mustve misposted it.

    eerie to think that s/he is carefully monitoring every thread. waiting for someone to slip up and say some thing that s/he simply cannot, will not tolerate. Then POW! 500 hundred word barrage!

  76. 76
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    Winner take both toupees?

  77. 77

    @Suffern ACE:

    I think it was just online, but would it surprise anyone if they expected money for that crap?

  78. 78

    @Joe Beese:

    Dude, why don’t you bitch about the obvious fault with that picture:

    It isn’t even a human- it’s a metamorphosed Oompa Loompa.

    They ain’t so cute once they eat through the chocolate cocoon, are they?

  79. 79
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    I’m as pasty white as it gets and it never crossed my mind that it was only possible for anyone not white to gain only at the cost of (whatever) to whites.

    I still don’t think that’s the case either but it does make ‘sense’ (in a Republi-teabaggy way).

    @Mark S.:

    I looked, saw 504 posts, did a CTRL-F, typed in Beese, saw that he was driving the crazy train (as usual) and then ducked out to maintain my sanity.

    Fuck.

    Am I ever glad that I have a life that doesn’t include hanging around on the internet in case someone is wrong…lol! Ol’ Joey the Ratfucker is there as the guardian of stupid.

    Let the beatings resume as I am outta here.

  80. 80
    Yutsano says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel):

    eerie to think that s/he is carefully monitoring every thread. waiting for someone to slip up and say some thing that s/he simply cannot, will not tolerate. Then POW! 500 hundred word barrage!

    Umm…that’s her SOP. Poutrage seems to be her entire raison d’etre.

    @Odie Hugh Manatee:

    Ol’ Joey the Ratfucker is there as the guardian of stupid.

    And that one as well. There must be some strange psychological need to seek outrage on some level. It’s bizarre.

  81. 81

    @Yutsano: Hmm. I’ve never been dinged by her. I guess that makes me a virgin of some kind. There are worse trolls. At least she puts on a show.

  82. 82

    @ABL

    …or “their neighbor who gets it from the computer.”

    Am I the only person who, after reading/hearing about the “neighbor who got it from their computer”, imagines the office in the GOP HQ that places tech-literate ops in the midst of neighborhoods full of elderly people?

  83. 83
    Yutsano says:

    @Parallel 5ths (Jewish Steel): The real tell that you’ve called her on her bullshit and she knows it is when she descends into ad hominem. Although watch her and Mnemosyne go at it some time. It gets kinda epic. And Ms M always comes out on top.

  84. 84
    johnny walker says:

    What’s up with that graphic? I hate to acknowledge it but Joe Beese has a fair point for once. You have a jpg up here that says, among other things, that in general blue collar whites hate educated black men, educated women, hispanics, and their own wives. I’m trying to imagine the epic 20,000-word shitstorm a similar pic stereotyping a black dude would elicit from the ABL. Is it really that hard to imagine that being written off wholesale because of the way you fucking look* might lead to hostility? I’m not saying it’s right, but holy shit, think about it from their perspective. Get attacked (whether it’s real or just a perception) = become defensive. Pretty simple.

    *in this guy’s case, admittedly fat and doofy… but so what? He could have a PhD in physics for all we know. Why is it ok to stereotype *this* guy?

    You don’t get to be all, “Oh my god, why are white people so threatened by colored people?” while simultaneously writing them all off as a bunch of idiotic hicks with strained relationships and prejudices and so forth. You can take the high road or you can categorically shit on entire groups of people, but doing both simultaneously doesn’t work so well. What is a white conservative dude gonna see first should he somehow happen across this post? He’s gonna see a picture that makes him out as a moronic bigot with a strained marriage. Gee, I’m just totally at a loss as to why we can’t have a more constructive dialog with that as a starting point.

  85. 85

    @Yutsano:

    her

    mclaren is a WOMAN?

    Jesus.

  86. 86
    Ecks says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall: Great links… but you see the tagline that the person who uploaded the videos has put on it: “achtung! achtung !cultural marxist anti white bs straight ahead!”. When you post the video on Facebook, that is what appears as the description of it. It would be funny if it wasn’t so sickening.

  87. 87
    johnny walker says:

    @ABL: So let me get this straight: one person saying “You people” is so deeply offensive that you’re going to write off a whole group of people and bail on these comments entirely —and — you’re confused about how some portion of white people have managed to build themselves up an ideology in which a few scattered examples prove they’re the real victims?

    I’m supposed to believe that one person holds both those positions simultaneously?

    Sure thing.

  88. 88
  89. 89
    cbear says:

    @johnny walker: The lack of self-awareness is rather stunning, no?

  90. 90
    johnny walker says:

    @cbear: I see that in the comments her thing on this is, if I’m reading it right, that she knows it’s ugly but she wants to see how people react. Fair enough, but I think it’s also fair for me to point out I don’t buy for a second that she’d extend the same leeway to some rightblogger who put up some stereotypical black dude pic “to get the discussion started” or etc. Doesn’t pass the laugh test.

    ps. cue “Who gives a shit what you think?” type response, as though this whole thing isn’t a giant exercise in pretending other people care what we think.

  91. 91
    johnny walker says:

    @cbear: Well, I don’t disagree with the text. The way it’s laid out makes my brain hurt, but whatever. That’s ABL — layoutwise she’s gonna do ABL things, and for the most part I can accept that. But feigning confusion about how white people ended up feeling threatened while posting that pic? Can’t buy it.

    I’m not saying a bunch of scared white people are in the right for feeling the non-vanilla hordes are coming, but if one can’t look at that pic and then imagine some huckster SOB like Gingrich or Palin spinning it out to tell that story then I just can’t relate. It’s either a severe lack of self-consciousness or just straight-up bullshit, and either way I just can’t relate.

    And again, in case it’s unclear: I agree with most of the post, but I’m not buying the thing where she’s acting confused while simultaneously reinforcing the frame she’s pretending not to understand.

  92. 92
    Ecks says:

    @Lysana:

    When “you people” is clearly directed at a group of people of color, it’s racist

    I think he was saying “you [balloon-juice] people”. But YMMV. Who really knows with his sort of people.

  93. 93
    Ecks says:

    @johnny walker: To be MORE fair, though, picking on disadvantaged groups != picking on the privileged.

    Not that either of them is top draw grade A behavior, mind, but there’s a reason that, say, lawyer jokes are generally seen as kosher while gay guy jokes are not.

    So as a post that mocks racism in all its forms, I think ABL is on a dodgy but not TERRIBLE footing here. As an attempt to reach out and build understanding with middle aged conservative white guys it’s a pretty terrible gambit. Generally making fun of people is only seen as friendly ribbing AFTER you’ve established the friendly part.

  94. 94
    Triassic Sands says:

    A recent study indicates that white folks see race relations as a zero sum game, i.e., if black people get an inch, white people lose an inch.

    I’ve noted before that Republicans live in a zero sum world. That’s one reason why they are so opposed to health care reform.

    However, concerning “black people” I think it is even more than a simple zero sum game. I don’t know if there is a name for it, but Republicans seem to believe that if African Americans gain an inch, they (beleaguered white Republicans) will lose a mile (or more). It’s a strange twist on the paranoia that seems to dominate their lives in so many areas.

    Now, however, I know how they feel, even if I can’t understand why they feel that way. Why? Because every time the Republicans gain an inch, I feel like I — and civilization — have lost at least a mile.

  95. 95
    cbear says:

    @johnny walker: Nah, imho she didn’t have a clue what she was actually doing when she posted that picture and broke lame when she got called on it by joe beese and br. That self awareness thing again.

    Hell, none of us like to admit it when we make a mistake, but she seems especially resistant to any criticism and if you read through the thread, she seems to become increasingly agitated and intentionally misconstrued Fred’s comment as an excuse to bail. Again, imho, ymmv.

  96. 96

    @Ecks:

    I know. I make a practice of not reading comments on youtube or in newspapers. It just makes me too sad.

  97. 97
    johnny walker says:

    @Ecks: I think he meant people of color, and following that I think it’s plain that it was a racist statement. IE: here’s how you mofos always react to X — well, we know what mofos this person was referring to. Not complicated.

    I think the bigger point is that ABL will look at one person saying unconscionable shit and then write a whole group (BJ commenters) off. She’s done here! She’ll post but not comment! Well, that’s her right but it’s based on one fucking person. I’m sure there are tons of blue collar white folks who can tell one story about being treated poorly by minorities. The process isn’t exactly opaque. Find one example of someone being treated shitty, and use that to generalize. The difference is, when black folks do this they’re probably right — but we’re talking perception here, not reality.

    As a crazy-american white dude, I recognize that I have a lot of privileges that I take for granted. The only thing that connects my existence to the life of a black woman is that, due to being mentally ill and all the OMG UR CRAZY IM SCARED and whatnot that goes along with that — having to lie on jobs apps, and the idea that being chemically depressed means you’re a dangerous weirdo or etc — I have some small idea of what it’s like to get shit on just for existing as you were made. Is it anywhere near what a black person experiences? Fuck no! Unless I’m having a severely bad day you can’t tell I’m off by looking at me, but on some level I do understand what it’s like to be born in a way that just isn’t deemed acceptable.

    I don’t have a problem with finding the “You people” thing offensive. It was pretty gross. I just can’t relate to this idea that white-people-at-large feeling put-upon is totally inscrutable. It really isn’t! They’re projecting, they’re fantasizing, they’re playing pretend. They’re full of shit for sure. But they’re using the same frames as any other put-upon (or “put-upon”) group. The difference is the accuracy of the claim, not the process.

    I hope what I’m saying here is clear. I don’t really blame ABL for being pissed about “you people” talk and if that shit was directed at me in a mental-health sense I’d probably get irate too. I just can’t relate to the idea that after getting so pissed at a single person that you write a whole group off, you can’t then turn around and at least understand how someone else — right or wrong, and this is f’ing key — might do the same thing. I don’t get it.

  98. 98
    johnny walker says:

    @Ecks: I think you have a fair point here. I thought about it myself, but after looking back over the original post it didn’t seem like the intent was “taking the priviliged down a notch.” Maybe I missed that. If so, then she’s more right on and I apologize.* But as you can see from my comments here, I focused more on the idea that she was confused about how white people came to this fucked-up conclusion, and I just didn’t find the confusion credible. Like I said, the process by which this shit gets disseminated isn’t exactly opaque.

    I don’t like James Carville very much, but the Puke Funnel is probably the most apt description of anything that ever existed. Know what I mean?

    *Maybe the pic could use a caption, ie. “Typical victim of minority oppression” or something, and then it could focus a bit more on the “here’s how NAFTA shit you voted for fucked you” angle and less on how white people are all assholes who hate educated minorities, women, etc.

  99. 99
    johnny walker says:

    @johnny walker: Ugh, looking this back over, I’ve accidentally equated being black to being “off” due to linguistic imprecision. This was not my point. All I’m trying to say here, is that unless I’m having a particularly bad day most people don’t receive a cue to treat me as substandard based on my appearance, whereas minority folks have to deal with that shit basically 24/7.

  100. 100
    Ecks says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall: YouTube comments are notoriously douchy, but this wasn’t a comment. Bizarrely, it’s the description written BY THE PERSON WHO UPLOADED THE VIDEO.

  101. 101
    johnny walker says:

    @Sarah Proud and Tall: @Ecks:

    If you’re on Chrome or Firefox look for the CommentBlocker addon. It will solve any issues you have with accidentally viewing comment sections.

  102. 102
    Ecks says:

    @johnny walker: If the “you” in “you people” referred to blacks then it’s clearly racist. If it referred to “you people here” then not so much. I’m not American so I’m sure you all are reading the codes better than me: Dude’s an asshole.

    Your lengthy rant about perceptions vs. reality is slightly perplexing. The reality is that blacks get crapped on way more than Whites. Is it understandable that a lot of White people get grumpy and defensive about this and choose to feel put upon?

    On the one hand, it’s not understandable. We (and I say this as a pasty dude) have a moral responsibility to act like grown-ups when we discover grave injustices, and to work like hell to fix them… Even if that means doing a lot of painful soul-searching and re-evaluating of our own motives and impulses.

    On the other hand, yes it’s understandable. Jealousy and pride and self-absorbedness are normal parts of the human condition – take a look at little kids, we’re born with it. It takes years of learning and self-control to grow out of it. Given that modern prejudice is largely hidden from us, (though not, obviously, to its victims), the natural coasting state of affairs is to see no evil, even if you’re a naturally liberal type. If you’re a conservative who sees the world in terms of ingroups and loyalty, then it’s an even bigger step, because it requires admitting that “my guys” are not the good guys here… and that feels like a very disloyal thought. Conservatives HATE disloyalty, so they are taking on a lot of psychological work just to acknowledge it at all. And people, as a rule, hate doing uncomfortable and difficult things. Hell, if I was better ad doing that myself I’d spend more time working and less on here.

    So in a sense this isn’t a White people phenomenon, it’s a human one (there’s a long and ignoble international history of one shat upon group turning around and shitting on the next group in line). White people just happen to be the group in the Western world right now who are in the position of having to face it down (thanks forebears!).

  103. 103
    ABL says:

    I am closing these comments. I don’t need to be the subject of an academic debate about whether, when, and on what basis I should be offended at a patently racist comment, or listen to people pontificate about what “you people” meant in the context of a comment that mentioned “white wing” twice.

    oh, and boblaw? you’ll be hard-pressed to find any statement made by me that this site is racist. then again, i’ve yet to read anything intelligent from you, so, no biggie.

    peace.

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