Good Thing He Released the Long Form, Ehh Sully?

Why, oh why, didn’t he release the long form long ago? It could have stopped all this:

Texas state legislator Leo Berman, a Republican, has introduced a bill that would require proof of citizenship from presidential candidates. It’s one of many such bills in the states. And according to Sharon Guthrie, Berman’s legislative director, the legislation is still needed and the long-form birth certificate released by the White House today does not satisfy its requirements.

“What I’ve seen online, what they produced today, still says certificate of live birth across the top,” she told me. And she’s right.

But why isn’t that just a nomenclature issue? Why does it matter?

“We want to see a ‘birth certificate,'” Guthrie explained. “The one that we have that says ‘birth certificate’ is from Mombassa, Kenya, with his footprint on it. He has still not produced an American birth certificate.

Or this:

But now that Obama has released his birth certificate, World Net Daily has decided it’s not sufficient, even if they decide the long-form birth certificate is totally authentic. Here’s Joseph Farah:

We look forward to reviewing it like so many other Americans do at this late date. But it is important to remember there are still dozens of other questions concerning this question of eligibility that need to be resolved to assure what has become a very skeptical public concerning Barack Obama’s parentage, his adoption, his citizenship status throughout his life and why he continues to cultivate a culture of secrecy around his life.

Farah is also not willing to concede that the long-form birth certificate is genuine. He writes: “The news media and the political establishment were quick to rush to judgment regarding Obama’s eligibility in 2008, without any basis. It would be a big mistake for everyone to jump to a conclusion now based on the release of this document, which raises as many questions than it answers.”

Wait, what? Nothing is going to be good enough for these people, and this just proves how wrong Sullivan is to assert that Obama waited too long to produce something that was unnecessary. You can’t play “rope-a-dope” with people who question the existence of the rope, the dope, and the ring.

And Trump continues to step up his racist smear campaign:

TRUMP: If you look at what he’s doing in Libya, which is a total disaster. Nobody even knows what’s going on in Libya. If you look at what’s happening with gasoline prices where he said he has no control over prices, which he does if he gets on the phone or gets off his basketball court or whatever he is doing at the time.

Strapping young bucks buying steaks and playing hoops. Is it possible that Donald Trump will be the one to finally drop the N-bomb and end all this pussyfooting around?

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154 replies
  1. 1
    soonergrunt says:

    All of this surprises precisely NOBODY.

  2. 2
    Crashman says:

    If you look at what’s happening with gasoline prices where he said he has no control over prices, which he does if he gets on the phone or gets off his basketball court or whatever he is doing at the time.

    I’ve heard this elsewhere too. What the hell is he supposed to do about gas prices? How can he possibly lower them? Threaten to invade Saudi Arabia?

  3. 3

    Is it possible that Donald Trump will be the one to finally drop the N-bomb and end all this pussyfooting around?

    I wish a motherfucker would just go ahead and drop an N-bomb.

  4. 4
    JonF says:

    If I ever reconsider my decision not to read Sully anymore, I’ll just look at this post again.

  5. 5
    Corner Stone says:

    Man, these motherfuckers.

  6. 6
    PurpleGirl says:

    Goddess, that didn’t very long did it? There is nothing that will break through the wall of stupid these people exist behind.

    I want to see the airline manifest(s) that show that Stanley Ann Dunham went to Kenya in 1961. If they are claiming it, they must prove it. Show me the tickets!

  7. 7
    Tom Hilton says:

    IMO, Sully boxed himself into this with all his Trig-Trutherism.

    And as for the Birther dead-enders, someone in my Twitter feed put it most succinctly: No document in the world can make the President white.

  8. 8
    cleek says:

    @Crashman:

    What the hell is he supposed to do about gas prices?

    1) tap the strategic petroleum reserves
    2) drill, baby, drill
    3) quit generating “uncertainty” in the M.E.
    4) ???
    5) Profit!!

  9. 9
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Crashman: Goodness. It would be a very interesting election indeed if the Republican candidates were running in favor of the issue of gasoline price controls. I think my heart has already missed a few beats.

  10. 10
    El Tiburon says:

    Is it possible that Donald Trump will be the one to finally drop the N-bomb and end all this pussyfooting around?

    It would be irresponsible not to.

    It is going to be a long, hot summer.

    Instead of plugging the dam by providing this birth certificate, it tore the damn dam down.

    You always have to remember, that when dealing with these wingnuts, facts and evidence and proof are meaningless.

    Trying to reason your way out of an argument with them using these tools is a fool’s errand. Especially with our MSM amplifying every smear that comes across the tubez.

  11. 11
    Martin says:

    Trump won’t drop the n-bomb. The blacks love him.

  12. 12
    Chris says:

    If you look at what’s happening with gasoline prices where he said he has no control over prices, which he does if he gets on the phone or gets off his basketball court or whatever he is doing at the time.

    Which is just what any small government libertarian mindful of the free market’s sanctity should do, of course.

  13. 13
    Suffern ACE says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    Goddess, that didn’t very long did it? There is nothing that will break through the wall of stupid these people exist behind.

    The death and annihilation of anyone who ever had a liberal thought will calm them down. They want to burn your house down, dontya know.

  14. 14
    eemom says:

    hmm, what have we here? A SECOND post in the space of two hours about the SAME stupid post by Andrew Sullivan about the President’s release of his birth certificate.

    If I didn’t know better, I’d think I was on a blog owned by a man with a bizarre fixation on an overgrown British schoolboy who nobody else in their right mind gives a shit about.

  15. 15
    Yutsano says:

    @cleek: Underpants gnomes FTW!

    @Tom Hilton:

    No document in the world can make the President white.

    Someone on Twitter just won themselves a shiny brand-new Interwebs. Where would they like it delivered and would they like it gift-wrapped?

  16. 16
    El Tiburon says:

    @Crashman:

    What the hell is he supposed to do about gas prices? How can he possibly lower them?

    Resign in shame immediately. Admit he is a Kenyan, punch Hillary Clinton in the ovaries and shine Donald Trump’s shoes.

    This. This might lower gas prices.

  17. 17
    Joe Beese says:

    Enough, Mr. Cole. I daresay, well more than enough.

    You and Sully need to settle this in the octagon so we can all move on with our lives.

  18. 18
    OzoneR says:

    I’m getting the same reaction from a lot of firebagger types, somewhere in between “why did it take so long, it’s his fault this controversy started” and “What a wimp! Trump says jump, he says how high.”

    One co-worker even said both at the same time, like “why did Obama wait so long to be a wimp”

    Some people cannot be pleased.

  19. 19
    JM says:

    So:
    1) the birthers STILL don’t accept it
    2) Obama wasn’t required to produce it

    And yet, Andrew Sullivan is asking why he didn’t do it sooner? Do what? Something you don’t have to, that won’t make a difference?

    What a fucking moron.

  20. 20
    efgoldman says:

    I am speechless typeless.
    The comments over at LGM refer a lot to Obama’s 11th-dimensional chess, and I think they’re possible right.
    He principally addressed the MSM in his presser.
    He has the MSM and Wingnuttia both in a trap.
    “Please Mr. MSM/GOBP, Oh Please don’t throw me in that briar patch!”

  21. 21
    Dave says:

    @Crashman: Don’t you know? That is pretty much Trump’s plan. To go over and “take” the oil. Because it’s just that easy!

  22. 22
    JCT says:

    I would pay money to be a fly on the wall at the Obama family dinner tonight, though the best will likely come later when the kids have gone to bed.

    I am now in awe — this has turned out to be like pouring kerosene on a fire.

    And whoa, at this rate, the only thing left for Trump will be to drop the n-bomb. What a useless fuck.

    Oh and look at the “media” asking Trump about this without the “and now will you release your financial records now that Obama has held up his side of the bargain? follow-up question. How surprising.

  23. 23
    Zifnab says:

    TRUMP: If you look at what he’s doing in Libya, which is a total disaster. Nobody even knows what’s going on in Libya. If you look at what’s happening with gasoline prices where he said he has no control over prices, which he does if he gets on the phone or gets off his basketball court or whatever he is doing at the time.

    It’s a total disaster, but no one knows what is going on? We need to look at what is going on with gasoline prices because he should get off his phone or off his basketball court?

    Am I the only one who thinks this is getting suspiciously close to the Chewbacca Defense? I mean, look at it. It doesn’t make sense. None of it makes sense.

    Sensical.
    Trump 2012.

  24. 24
    comrade scott's agenda of rage says:

    The birther reaction, the Sully reaction, etc etc all win the Claude Rains Memorial Gambling Awareness Award for the week! Free poker chips for everybody!

  25. 25
    aimai says:

    Jeezus christ. That’s all I have to say. I mean, I am not surprised but I feel winded, like someone just punched me in the stomach. There’s just no pulling the country out of this death spiral of stupid.

    Also, I think the Donald’s “get on the phone and do something” is also an echo of John McCain’s famous strategy of “telling them to cut the shit out” or whatever he proposed as his final solution for Iraq.

    aimai

  26. 26
    JM says:

    @eemom:

    Meh. You can never, NEVER have too much fun at a drama queen’s expense.

  27. 27
    Brachiator says:

    Is it possible that Donald Trump will be the one to finally drop the N-bomb and end all this pussyfooting around?

    Obama has been bombarded with racist nonsense since he began running, perhaps starting with a hastily refuted National Review column reminding people that in the 1960s Real American white women did not marry negroes.

    And along the way, of course, we had the late Geraldine Ferraro giving heart to PUMAs everywhere by claiming that Obama was just the affirmative action hire for the Democrats.

    Why does anyone still think that it is only the uttering of the N-word that conclusively demonstrates racism?

    The entire birther movement and a huge degree of the Tea Party is grounded in racial anxiety.

    I guess some people do need a weather vane to know which way the wind blows.

  28. 28
    Zifnab says:

    @Dave: Worked in Iraq. I mean, look at how oil prices plunged after that invasion.

  29. 29
    Bob L says:

    @Martin: Yes, why would Trump mess with his audience. I think part of Trump’s game is lead a serious person into uttering the N word. Considering these idiots already tried to do in Medicare that can’t be to far.

  30. 30
    kay says:

    Media have editorial control over what they present and promote. They pick and choose every day. They could simply choose to stop covering the leader of Tea Party Nation and his inane statements, but they aren’t, and they won’t. Obama brought that up just today. He suggested they choose to cover news instead of nonsense, given that there are only 24 hours in a day.
    This is what they want to cover. It isn’t newsworthy, it isn’t informative and it isn’t even new.
    But they’re still covering it.

  31. 31
    MikeBoyScout says:

    @7 Tom Hilton:

    FTW!

    No document in the world can make the President white.

  32. 32
    efgoldman says:

    Shame doesn’t work on the GOBP. Part of their Officlal Initiation Ritual(tm) is a shame-ectomy. But it just might work a bit on the MSM.

  33. 33
    Uncle Kvetch says:

    If I didn’t know better, I’d think I was on a blog owned by a man with a bizarre fixation on an overgrown British schoolboy who nobody else in their right mind gives a shit about.

    Truly.

  34. 34
    joes527 says:

    So … the guy from Texas wants … what?

    If a state issues birth certificates that say “certificate of live birth,” then a presidential candidate that was born in that state needs to … go back and be born in a more amurican state … in order to get onto the ballot in Texas.

    No, seriously. What?

  35. 35
    metricpenny says:

    @eemom:

    Hey! Stop trying to shame John/BJ into ceasing the critique of Sully. Since I gave up TV news and reading newspapers, it’s the only entertainment I can afford. And reading Sully of course.

  36. 36
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    There is no documentation, no proof, that will settle this “issue”…because the true issues are:

    Obama is a Democrat, therefore unqualified to be President.

    Obama is black, therefore a subhuman unqualified to be President.

    That’s basically it. You can never satisfy these shitstains. You simply cannot.

  37. 37
    Captain Howdy says:

    Part of me wants to second eemom’s observation, but I kind of like it when Cole sticks it to Little Load Fauntleroy.

    See you next Tuesday, Andrew.

  38. 38
    Served says:

    If I may, Cher (yes, Cher) just tweeted the following:

    “Donald Trump is Pompous Asshole ! Saw him in Aspen with one Dcup chick after another Everyone up there thought he was a complete idiot”

    The (fucking) End.

  39. 39
    salacious crumb says:

    From the excellent David Remnick of the New Yorker:

    The cynicism of the purveyors of these fantasies is that they know very well what they are playing at, the prejudices they are fanning: that Obama is foreign, a fake, incapable of writing a book, incapable of intellectual achievement. Let’s say what is plainly true (and what the President himself is reluctant to say): these rumors, this industry of fantasy, are designed to arouse a fear of the Other, of an African-American man with a white American mother and a black Kenyan father. Obama, as a politician, is clearly not a radical; he is a center-left pragmatist. If anything, he believes deeply in his capacity to lead with subtle diplomacy and political maneuvering, with a highly realistic sense of the possible; in fact, to many he is maddeningly pragmatic.

    gotta read the entire peice

    http://www.newyorker.com/onlin.....iting.html

  40. 40
    MagicPanda says:

    For a long time now, I’ve been thinking that saying ‘racism’ at every opportunity isn’t really helping. First, it’s inaccurate. Second, it weakens the charge when it’s truly warranted.

    For example, I don’t think that birtherism is driven by racism. It’s driven by xenophobia, which is different.

    If Jesse Jackson were president, no one would be doubting that he was born in the US. And if Bill Clinton had a dad who was from, say, Romania, and if he had spent his childhood in, say, Czechoslovakia, people would have invented crazy conspiracy theories about his birth certificate. (Remember the Vince Foster stuff? People were crazy back then, too)

    Talking about playing basketball is clearly a subtle racial dog whistle.

    But crying racism at these slights (IMHO) only serves to weaken the charge when it is truly warranted.

    My 2c.

  41. 41
    efgoldman says:

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    You can never satisfy these shitstains. You simply cannot.

    Troof!!

  42. 42
    evie says:

    I can’t wait for the day, maybe even in the next century, when an African American as small, nasty and incompetent as Trump will lead the polls in a primary to become President of the United States. Because as it is, an AA has to be a freakish super-human with absolutely no real skeletons in his closet. And even then, his legitimacy is questioned on a daily basis by racists.

  43. 43
    Dave says:

    Trump’s political vision is more suited to a 30-minute informercial where he extols the virtues of using a Slap Chop to assassinate Khadaffi and take his oil, as opposed to legitimate media outlets.

  44. 44
    anthonybaxter says:

    I hear that Obama has 3 testicles. I demand that Jake Tapper explain to me why the White House hasn’t published an Xray of the president’s testicles.

  45. 45
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Crashman:

    If you look at what’s happening with gasoline prices where he said he has no control over prices, which he does if he gets on the phone or gets off his basketball court or whatever he is doing at the time.

    And to complete the circle, the frontrunning Republican presidential candidate just called for price controls.

    But don’t call it so_bonerpill_m.

  46. 46
    Yutsano says:

    @MagicPanda:

    But crying racism at these slights (IMHO) only serves to weaken the charge when it is truly warranted

    This may be agree to disagree territory, but nothing but racism accounts for the de-legitimization of Obama. Let’s face it: Clinton had a rough go, but no one tried to question his legitimacy to hold the office in the first place. This issue has never been around for so long with any other candidate even when there were possible legit Constitutional issues (I’m looking at you Grandpa Walnuts) so what is left to account for it?

  47. 47
    Admiral_Komack says:

    I said it once and I’m saying it again:
    Admiral_Komack:
    April 27th, 2011 at 10:37 am
    I don’t think it’s funny.
    I am not laughing.
    I think the White House having to produce President Obama’s long form birth certificate to placate racists and idiots is deplorable.
    It just goes to show to be black you have to be prepared to go the extra mile…or two.
    This country isn’t post-racial by a long shot…and anyone who believes otherwise is an idiot.

  48. 48
    kd bart says:

    This all will be over by tomorrow night when the media plunges into wall to wall coverage of what really matters to Americans, The Royal Wedding.

  49. 49
    freelancer says:

    The response to this has been nothing short of hilarious. On my way to work this morning, I was listening to our local wingnut AM show who leads into Rush, and he’s basically saying it’s over, but he was inundated with callers and emails saying “This isn’t over!”. One guy was like, “Okay, yeah, but when we gonna see the college transcripts!”
    A woman wrote, “What about his Dad?! He’s still African!”
    Some “expert” wrote in that he may be a citizen, but he’s not constitutionally a “natural born” citizen.
    Yet another hick was like, “Okay fine, he was born here. But somehow, I don’t think there’s any legality to him being President.”

    It’s glorious in its fractious stupidity.

  50. 50
    charmtrap says:

    @MagicPanda:

    Talking about playing basketball is clearly a subtle racial dog whistle.

    That’s what passes for subtle nowadays?

  51. 51
    Bob Loblaw says:

    Syria state TV should just play the President’s press conference on a loop for the next 24 hours and clear this little democracy obsession right the fuck up.

    We are such majestic exporters of freedom and values. A shining beacon to the rest of the world indeed.

  52. 52
    Montysano says:

    @MagicPanda:

    For example, I don’t think that birtherism is driven by racism. It’s driven by xenophobia, which is different.

    You, sir, have a considerably more generous view of the 27 Percenters than I do.

  53. 53
    evie says:

    @MagicPanda I actually think we have the opposite problem — people are very, very reluctant to call racists racist. Liberals bend over backwards to say, “I’m not saying they are all racist.”

    On this issue, there is nothing equivocal about it. Racism is driving the birthers, and the first African American president is the only one in modern history who has had to “prove,” again and again, that he qualifies according to the constitution.

    You can cite past conspiracy theories all you want, but Bill Clinton wasn’t forced to “prove” he didn’t kill Vince Foster.

  54. 54
    Ripley says:

    Still, Donald Trump has no executive experience, so…

  55. 55
    evie says:

    @MagicPanda I actually think we have the opposite problem — people are very, very reluctant to call racists racist. Liberals bend over backwards to say, “I’m not saying they are all racist.”

    On this issue, there is nothing equivocal about it. Racism is driving the birthers, and the first African American president is the only one in modern history who has had to “prove,” again and again, that he qualifies according to the constitution.

    You can cite past conspiracy theories all you want, but Bill Clinton wasn’t forced to “prove” he didn’t kill Vince Foster.

  56. 56
    evie says:

    @MagicPanda I actually think we have the opposite problem — people are very, very reluctant to call racists racist. Liberals bend over backwards to say, “I’m not saying they are all racist.”

    On this issue, there is nothing equivocal about it. Racism is driving the birthers, and the first African American president is the only one in modern history who has had to “prove,” again and again, that he qualifies according to the constitution.

    You can cite past conspiracy theories all you want, but Bill Clinton wasn’t forced to “prove” he didn’t kill Vince Foster.

  57. 57
    Joe Beese says:

    @salacious crumb:

    “Obama, as a politician, is clearly not a radical; he is a center-left pragmatist.”

    ha ha ha ha ha…

  58. 58
    Brachiator says:

    @salacious crumb:

    From the excellent David Remnick of the New Yorker.

    I love the title of the piece, TRUMP, BIRTHERISM, AND RACE-BAITING. Tells it exactly as it is. Thanks for this, even though the crazies will only up their game.

  59. 59
    Jay in Oregon says:

    @MagicPanda:

    For example, I don’t think that birtherism is driven by racism. It’s driven by xenophobia, which is different.

    The GOP was so fired up about Arnold Schwarznegger as governor of California that there was talk of trying to amend the Constitution to eliminate the natural born citizen requirement for eligibility.

    So there are *ahem* shades of foreigners that are acceptable to them, it seems.

  60. 60
    roshan says:

    I think calling it an N-bomb is too pc and elitist. That’s like modifying the english language or something. What’s the harm in calling n*****rs n*****rs? Next up on CNN, has the English language become too PC in America?.

  61. 61
    The Moar You Know says:

    “What I’ve seen online, what they produced today, still says certificate of live birth across the top,” she told me. And she’s right.
    __
    But why isn’t that just a nomenclature issue? Why does it matter?
    __
    “We want to see a ‘birth certificate,’” Guthrie explained. “The one that we have that says ‘birth certificate’ is from Mombassa, Kenya, with his footprint on it. He has still not produced an American birth certificate.

    Huh. Just happen to have my “birth certificate” here. I was born in Alabama, and while some would maintain that’s a third-world country, it is still technically America and pretty close to Texas.

    But there’s a problem. My “birth certificate” says “Certificate of Live Birth”. Seems to have been the custom during the time when Obama was born (he’s a couple of years older than I am). Well, damn. I guess I can’t be president either.

    But I actually could be, as no one would ever even ask to see mine. You see, I’m white. As in “descended from Confederacy” white.

  62. 62
    Bob L says:

    @joes527: He wants Obama to produce his Kenyan birth certificate from what I read in that statement.

  63. 63
    Corner Stone says:

    @OzoneR:

    One co-worker even said both at the same time, like “why did Obama wait so long to be a wimp”

    At least try to imagine a fictional person saying something more believable than this.

  64. 64
    Yutsano says:

    @Brachiator: Evidence for you theory here: @freelancer. I’m thinking there are folks starting to ponder Second Amendment solutions. This shan’t end well.

  65. 65
    Loneoak says:

    @kd bart:

    This all will be over by tomorrow night when the media plunges into wall to wall coverage of what really matters to Americans, The Royal Wedding.

    I was planning on drinking gin all day.

    But I guess I will have to switch to Irish whiskey to spite those fucking freeloaders.

  66. 66
    David Brooks (not that one) says:

    Why did he wait this long? Read what Dan Pfeiffer said, you stupid fellow-Brit.

    Therefore, the President directed his counsel to review the legal authority for seeking access to the long form certificate

    The President is a constitutional scholar. In other words: Hawaii law wants a damned good reason to spend time getting the long form, and until now there has not been such a reason. The short form met all constitutional requirements. If he had also asked for the long form, the State would have been accused by the usual suspects of doing him a special favor.

    Now, the release of the long form has become of compelling national interest.

    [I]t was bad for the American people and distracting from the many challenges we face as a country

    which now gives him the legal standing to ask the State to go the extra mile.

    Got that? It’s because he is a lawyer and a politican who respects the law.

    Arsehole.

  67. 67
    Suffern ACE says:

    @kd bart: Yep. They so want us to share their fascination with and longing for an institution we supposedly shoved off two centuries ago, which as been obsolete since the dark ages. Fricking instill that sensibility in our young’uns, especially our girls.

    Infantile fantasies is what our news does best though.

  68. 68
    DavidNC says:

    for sully this is all about trig. no more thought has gone into it than that. he’s an idiot.

    call me an optimist, but i don’t think trump will get away with racism this blatant. just don’t see him emerging from this with anything like his former reputation. such as it was.

  69. 69
    homerhk says:

    @MagicPanda: at this stage, those well meaning people (including you, it appears) who want to put birtherism shit down to something other than racism are just as much in fantasy land as the birthers themselves. They tell themselves “i’m not racist, but why can’t he produce his birth certificate”; you can tell yourself that it’s not because a significant portion of the US is racist but that doesn’t make it so. This is solely down to the fact that he is black and in the White House. It’s disgusting, disgraceful and (speaking as a brit), your country and your country’s media should be absolutely ashamed.

  70. 70
    danimal says:

    I think we’re seeing real eleventy dimensional chess going on here. The wingnuts, who have been screaming for the long-form birth certificate, have to pivot to even more crazy conspiracies, while the GOP is stuck with Trump preening for the cameras as their presidential front-runner. (Just imagine Trump in a general election campaign, from a GOP insider’s perspective. Panic, pure panic!)

    And now all seventeen of the remaining rational independents in the country are now looking at the GOP clown show with absolute revulsion.

    A good day.

  71. 71
    Warren Terra says:

    @PurpleGirl:

    I want to see the airline manifest(s) that show that Stanley Ann Dunham went to Kenya in 1961.

    Silly PurplrGirl, Soviet submarines crewed by cadres of dedicated anticolonialist agents committed to undermining our way of life don’t have “airline manifests”.

  72. 72
    dm9871 says:

    The most annoying thing about Sullivan’s response is that he elevates the decision whether or not to respond to the most ridiculous Village noncontroversies into an ethical question – as though one is morally deficient for choosing not to.

  73. 73
    Loneoak says:

    This made me giggle:

    Conservative talk radio host Rush Limbaugh has thrown his weight behind the birther controversy as well, once saying on his show that Obama was like God — in that neither one has a birth certificate.

  74. 74
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @anthonybaxter:

    I hear that Obama has 3 testicles. I demand that Jake Tapper explain to me why the White House hasn’t published an Xray of the president’s testicles.

    They can’t find any of them. (FireDogLake told me this, years ago.)

    @Bobby Thomson:

    And to complete the circle, the front-running Republican presidential candidate just called for price controls.

    Popular? Probably. Conservative in any principled way? Hell no.

    So you could therefore accuse the front-running Republican presidential candidate of front-running.

    Our politics once again is becoming the Saudi Arabia of meta.

  75. 75
    kindness says:

    On having to defend oneself from the implied but not actually spoken is a tough cookie. Myself, I think it is only fair to state, using rough Republicanese:

    I would take Senator McConnell at his word that he isn’t a raging pedophile, but I’m left wondering why he hasn’t denied it yet?

    Or something like that. Use the Rovian model and expand.

  76. 76
    salacious crumb says:

    @Joe Beese: Im not sure where to place him..definitely not right..but his action with Libya disappointed me….and i was still puzzling over his choice of basically pro-corporate people in his cabinet…still given the bat shit crazy lunatics he has to deal with (i mean people who cant deal with having a heavily shackled guy go for trail in NY, senators brayin for tax cuts for the wealthy or they shut down govt…) can you really blame him for the some of the promises he reneged on? Im not sayin this excuses anything, but he is definitely a pragmatist…

    and to be honest this country, the salt of the Americans we sing masturbatory songs for, has descended into lunacy as well…these are the kind of people in tea Party asking for tax cuts for wealthy…and when Obama grovels to provide these idiots some form of decent health care they go fuckin crazy…

  77. 77
    Brachiator says:

    @MagicPanda:

    For a long time now, I’ve been thinking that saying ‘racism’ at every opportunity isn’t really helping. First, it’s inaccurate. Second, it weakens the charge when it’s truly warranted.

    When is the charge “truly warranted?”

    In any event, no one is “saying racism at every opportunity.” But here is the reaction to an American poster on the conservative UK Daily Mail story on Obama’s birth certificate:

    In any case he is ineligble to serve us as POTUS because his mother was not an Adult Citizen long enough to pass the Constitutional requirement of ‘Natural Born’ status on to him, and his father was a British Kenyan. He has citizenship by nature of his birthplace only, not good enough for POTUS.

    I don’t know. Apart from being just wrong about every constitutional issue, this seems to be a tortured, and racist, attempt to declare Obama illegitimate to be president.

  78. 78
    TooManyJens says:

    @kd bart:

    This all will be over by tomorrow night when the media plunges into wall to wall coverage of what really matters to Americans, The Royal Wedding.

    For white America, it might be over, but black people aren’t going to forget that they just got more proof that they’re not considered real Americans.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX5ueEKsSWc

  79. 79
    Earl Butz says:

    @MagicPanda:

    For example, I don’t think that birtherism is driven by racism.

    And you are wrong. It is driven by nothing but racism.

    If Jesse Jackson were president, no one would be doubting that he was born in the US.

    Yes, they would.

    And if Bill Clinton had a dad who was from, say, Romania, and if he had spent his childhood in, say, Czechoslovakia, people would have invented crazy conspiracy theories about his birth certificate.

    He spent some of his college years in England, where the wingnuts say he was recruited by the KGB and sent back to America to impose communism. I will give you this one.

    But it is obvious to all and sundry that the core issue is that there are a large number of this nation’s citizenry who believe, religiously, that a black person is not qualified to be president. A majority of those believe that blacks shouldn’t be considered citizens, and a not-inconsiderable number of those believe, in all seriousness, that blacks aren’t human.

    I direct you to this charming book for proof of my last assertion.

  80. 80
    Rome Again says:

    Trump has stated that Obama has provided the proof, and really, he has to stick to that story… otherwise his son Barron will not be eligible to be president either. Barron’s mommy is Slavic, born in what is now Slovenia.

  81. 81
    anthonybaxter says:

    And has anyone seen his drawings from pre-school? No? That’s suspicious.

    Dear america. You have a non-caucasian president. Grow the fuck up. Jesus. I’m not even american, and I’m embarrassed for you. Just fucking get the signs out saying “We Ain’t Having No N*gg*r President” and be done with the pathetic attempts at subtlety. It’s just sad. And yes, I know I’m preaching to the non-27% crowd here,

  82. 82
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @Brachiator: From Krugman’s 2003 intro to The Great Unravelling, reflecting upon Kissinger’s Congress of Vienna book:

    …The revolutionary power he [Kissinger] had in mind was the France of Robespierre and Napoleon, though he clearly if implicitly drew parallels with the failure of diplomacy to effectively confront totalitarian regimes in the 1930s…. It seems clear to me that one should regard America’s right-wing movement–which now in effect controls the administration, both houses of Congress, much of the judiciary, and a good slice of the media–as a revolutionary power in Kissinger’s sense. That is, it is a movement that does not accept the legitimacy of our current political system.

  83. 83
    NonyNony says:

    @eemom:

    John’s blog – if he wants to be disappointed in Sully it’s place – you can always go do something else.

    But instead you’re commenting on it.

    And I’m commenting on your comment.

    So I think we’ve found the biggest loser here (me) and the second biggest loser (you).

  84. 84
    Eric S. says:

    I may have missed something and I don’t see it in the lexicon. Does “GOBP” = “Good Ol’ Boys Party?”
    Thanks

  85. 85
    twiffer says:

    OMFG! my birth certificate (from CT) is ALSO called a “Certificate of Live Birth”. and holy shit! same thing for my wife (born in DC)!

    it’s almost as if many, many (perhaps even most) states record the live birth of a person with some document called “Certificate of Live Birth”, and many, many, many people shorten that to “birth certificate” in conversation, because it’s a bit easier to say.

    or it just means i’m not really a citizen. after all, CT is part of new england and everyone knows we aren’t real americans here. yep, must be that non-citizen thing. guess i can stop paying my taxes now.

  86. 86
    Calouste says:

    @Brachiator:

    Are you sure that was a comment at the Daily Hate Mail and not an editorial?

  87. 87
    Maude says:

    @homerhk:
    Right after Obama’s statement, the rightie radio guy was full tilt doubting the truth that Obama is a US citizen, oh, but he’s not racist, oh, never.
    The media has been fatuous for a long time.
    It takes work to learn about serious issues and they don’t do that. They are paid too much and they all talk to each other.
    I don’t watch cable tv and so I see news headlines on the tubes. The headlines on BBC and AP were about Obama, not Trump.

  88. 88
    slag says:

    I want to agree with the President that this argument has been a complete sideshow, but I can’t quite bring myself to do it. It’s true that the content of the argument has been a fucking carnival. But the fact of the argument–that it’s taking place at all–is deeply troubling on many levels.

    It’s one thing to blame the press, and I’m all on board with that. But 27% is not a small number. In as far as it represents the percentage of Republicans who are troubled enough themselves to be invested in this issue. That’s a big deal in as much as it totally fucks up our politics. It’d be cool if we could do more to meaningfully address that problem on a national level. Though I don’t know what more can be done since I’m not convinced that repeatedly pointing out the unspoken-yet-obvious actually changes anything.

  89. 89
    Tsulagi says:

    Is it possible that Donald Trump will be the one to finally drop the N-bomb and end all this pussyfooting around?

    Tune in to the last episode of Celebrity Apprentice to find out. That’s what Trump would like to say.

    Checked RedState to see if they had a birth certificate post. See if they’ve taken measure of the situation having their finger on the pulse of their members’ teabags.

    Commander EE didn’t disappoint. It’s not about the birth certificate for him, it’s Obama’s college transcripts he wants to kern. Skimmed some of the comments. Predictable. Given two years for the certificate release, one bagger just knows Obama’s people had time to secure printing equipment from the 60s to create a quality forgery. Another constitutional expert commenter now concedes Obama may have been born in Hawaii, but is certain to be a natural born citizen both parents must be US citizens. Can’t fool him, again.

    Nothing will satisfy in their quest to be Peak Nuts.

  90. 90
    Rome Again says:

    @twiffer:

    It’s a conspiracy, I tell ya! We are no longer “Natural Born Citizens” – the Koch daddy arranged it back in the good ole days, don’tcha know?

  91. 91
    kd bart says:

    True Americans are born with a bible in one hand and a gun in the other.

  92. 92
    The Snarxist Formerly Known As Kryptik says:

    @Eric S.:

    It’s a portmanteau of “GOP” and “BP”. Since, you know, the GOP just loves them some oil companies.

  93. 93
    Brachiator says:

    @Yutsano:

    Evidence for you theory here.

    Did you drop a link reference?

    Long ago, during the primary campaign, I remarked to a friend that I was surprised that conservatives and extremists did not unleash the racist “Obama is not intellectually qualified to be president” crap. Instead, they harped on the elitist aristocrat stuff, since that seemed to play well in some primary states, and even Hillary Clinton had played the Real American(tm) blue collar card. And it was hard to knock the Harvard Law Review stuff that clearly demonstrated Obama’s intellectual credentials.

    So, now, the Donald, with his supposed Real New York guy street cred, is harping on Obama’s college record, even though it obviously begs the question of “what does this have to do with anything?” But it does play to resentments about affirmative action, even though it is clearly bogus.

    I look at all this as a prelude to what we are going to see in the upcoming presidential campaign. The GOP can’t talk about the emptiness of their platform, so again they have to make it about Obama.

    By the way, anyone curious for a taste of Obama’s years at Occidental College can view this 30 minute program which showed on public TV station KCET back in 2008: Barack Obama’s Days at Occidental

    Note that former classmates and professors were impressed with Obama.

    You really have to wonder at the stupidity of the advice Trump is getting. It really makes him look like a fool.

  94. 94
    celticdragonchick says:

    I am not going to even attempt to defend Sullivan on this one. I usually do, but he lost me this time.

  95. 95
  96. 96
    TG Chicago says:

    To me, the most bizarre part of Sullivan going post-birther at this point is that he himself found the form Obama released in 2008 to be just fine… until this morning.

    For some reason, releasing superfluous evidence is proof of a plot. Or something. Man, Sullivan has been just weird lately.

  97. 97
    Nemesis says:

    This isnt 11d chess.

    The president is in a no-win predicament.

    Lose if he refuses to release his COLB long form, and lose if he releases it (for waiting so long to do so). He did the right thing given the circumstances.

    So Obama is said to be responsible for the crazies either way. Wow.

    The whole mess is just so alternate reality.

  98. 98
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @MagicPanda:

    For example, I don’t think that birtherism is driven by racism. It’s driven by xenophobia, which is different.

    Listen, birtherism is an entirely racist, bigoted endeavor. Full stop. To say that it has its primary roots in xenophobia is to completely disregard the enormity of the assault that has been launched on President Obama’s legitimacy.

    We are talking about people whose “intellect” is the direct legacy of the Southern Strategy. For them, this is about having a nigger in the White House, and a super competent one at that.

    The sooner liberals stop trying to apologize and cover up for this dynamic, the sooner we can start to advance as a country.

  99. 99
    catclub says:

    @Crashman: “Threaten to invade Saudi Arabia?”

    Of course, Wars McCain would have already invaded.
    Never mind that the effect would be to RAISE prices.

  100. 100

    We gonna prove it’s a fake, lie-berals. And even so, there ain’t no religion listed which PROVES his “parents” were commies that meant raise him to destroy this once proud country!

  101. 101
  102. 102
    cleek says:

    i don’t buy this.

    it’s not racist to refer to something that a person actually does. Obama really, ferreals, nofoolin, (i’ve seen pictures and everything!) plays basketball, you know.

  103. 103
    jnfr says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    My official (raised seal) photocopy of my 1953 birth certificate from Ohio also is titled “Certificate of Live Birth”. I got it a zillion years ago and it’s faded a lot, but it’s as close to putting your fingers on an original as you’ll ever get. These is much craziness in these people.

  104. 104
    Ian says:

    By the way, if anybody starts trying to push this argument:

    http://twitpic.com/4q7n5r

    to say that the document is a fake (yes, I know, they’re still at it), do point out that Acrobat’s Optimize Scanned PDF option does this with any image you care to throw at it.

  105. 105
    Brachiator says:

    @Calouste: Are you sure that was a comment at the Daily Hate Mail and not an editorial? Sadly, no. One of the things I note is how there is a hard core of Americans who always leave negative comments about Obama on every non-American web site they can. There is a pattern to this. Obama is always illegitimate and he is always ruining the country. The amount of explicit racism varies, but the other two points are always harped on.

    @Davis X. Machina:

    From Krugman’s 2003 intro to The Great Unravelling, reflecting upon Kissinger’s Congress of Vienna book

    There is a variation of this constantly used by Republicans. It is that the Republican Party is the only truly legitimate political party in America and that conservative values are the only Real American values.

    However, I clearly recall that Clinton hatred focused on the idea that he was a junky man, immoral trailer trash who sullied the office of president. He was, for these people, the wrong kind of person to be president, but no one held that he was not the legitimate president of the United States.

    It’s different with Obama. It’s strange how crazy some people are. I’ve heard people can into talk radio shows and say stuff like, “Obama should just stay in the White House his entire term and fix our problems.” or “Why does he have to travel and inconvenience the rest of us with his motorcades?” or “Why does he have to take vacations?” It’s as though they grudgingly acknowledge that he is president, but they don’t want to see him.

    And then you get the more overt stuff that he is not legitimate because he is not really American, not really Christian, not a citizen, etc.

    And note that I don’t call this racism, but racial anxiety. There are people who just cannot accept a black man or woman in a position of authority. I know some people, including some liberals, who could easily accept black co-workers as peers, but who became sullen and resentful when they got a black boss. By the way, I believe that Hillary Clinton would have had to deal with some gender anxiety had she been elected. It’s sad and the only good thing is that clearly there are more Americans who don’t have this problem, as opposed to the 27% or so who need some serious help.

  106. 106
    GregB says:

    As a resident of NH I will promise to call Donald Trump a racist dickwad to his face should he ever be in the same room with me.

    I’ll also ask if his cranium based ferret has had a distemper shot.

  107. 107
    eemom says:

    @jnfr:

    I’m a Live Birther too, and I was born 1 year after Obama in NY.

    Somewhere, a bunch of 1960s era public records clerks must be spinning in their graves.

  108. 108
    cleek says:

    @TG Chicago:

    To me, the most bizarre part of Sullivan going post-birther at this point is that he himself found the form Obama released in 2008 to be just fine… until this morning.

    i think it’s because this week he’s talked himself into believing his Trig obsession is an honorable quest to get the press to question authority. now he has to apply the same logic to the BC issue to prove to the world that he really means it when he says he just wants the press to ask tough questions.

    it’s transparent bullshit, however.

    today was his shark-jumping moment, IMO.

  109. 109
    ABL says:

    @Served: Seriously?! I think I just forgave her for Burlesque.

  110. 110
    Benjamin Cisco says:

    @Tom Hilton: Whoever left that, you tell him I’m stealing it.

  111. 111
    gex says:

    @JM: Some people just think black men should dance for them.

  112. 112
  113. 113
    Tom Hilton says:

    @MikeBoyScout:
    @Yutsano:
    @Benjamin Cisco:
    Credit it to Twitter-name theonlyadult. (Don’t know the real-world name.)

    And by the way, if you’re on Twitter check out TVHilton…

  114. 114
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @ABL: My wife loved that movie. I love my wife, so I watched it with her. It had a nice motorcycle.

  115. 115
    danimal says:

    @Brachiator:

    …And note that I don’t call this racism, but racial anxiety…

    I think that describes the phenomenom just about perfectly. They don’t perceive themselves to be motivated by racism, though birtherism is pretty transparently connected with racism.

  116. 116
    Kane says:

    Birtherism is nothing more than the latest GOP swift-boating. In large measure, these individuals are the same people who wore band-aids at the 2004 Republican presidential convention to mock and to put into question John Kerry’s war wounds. The very same people who developed an industry of conspiracy theories surrounding Bill and Hillary Clinton, accusing them of everything from murder to operating a drug cartel.

    There is no doubt that if Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden or John Edwards or Dennis Kucinich or Bill Richardson had won the Democratic nomination and the presidency rather than Barack Obama, the unfounded attacks and conspiracies would have come from the usual suspects. Surely the ammunition used in these attacks would differ depending on the individual­, but the goal and purpose and visciousne­ss to delegitimize would remain intact.

    There’s no question that birtherism appeals to the racist elements of the Republican party, but more broadly it resonates with Republican voters because it is simply an attack on President Obama. Birtherism is a convenient tool in the arsenal to the objection of a Democratic president, who just happens to be Barack Obama.

  117. 117
    And Another Thing... says:

    @eemom: My 1946 original form says “Certificate of Live Birth.” Trying to create a distinction between “Birth Certificate” and COLB is a desperate attempt to find any kind of reason to continue to deny reality.

  118. 118
    ohsuzanna says:

    Perhaps the President waited until he could get a lot of so-called bang for his buck. You have to admit that the train to crazy [birther] town is jam-packed full and running at top speed. I think that it was inspired to wait until now to release the long form certificate.

  119. 119
    soonergrunt says:

    @Joe Beese: You are about the last person who should be telling anybody not to obsess with another person’s blogging activity.

  120. 120
    TG Chicago says:

    @cleek

    I agree that it’s related to the Palin stuff. The weird thing is that — prior to this morning — he always held out Obama’s 2008 release of the COLB as the right standard. He pointed to it as clear evidence. He never felt a need to see the long form.

    Now suddenly he’s saying that the COLB wasn’t good enough and we only know the truth now. No logic whatsoever.

  121. 121

    […] certificate and the crap fountain of birther nonsense that will go on forever, here, here, here, here, here and my personal favorite, here. Leave a Comment LikeBe the first to like this […]

  122. 122
    Josie says:

    I checked our Texas birth certificates and they are all entitled “Standard Certificate of Birth,” regardless of year.

  123. 123
    Sloegin says:

    The birthers aren’t gonna forgive a black man for neutering their racist code-words.

  124. 124
    ManOutOfTime says:

    @Crashman: Trump said in his interview on This Week what he would do – what Obama should do: Look the OPEC guys in the eye and say “You had your fun. Your fun is over.” You know, like Bush did.

  125. 125
    Benjamin Cisco says:

    @slag:
    __

    It’s one thing to blame the press, and I’m all on board with that. But 27% is not a small number. In as far as it represents the percentage of Republicans who are troubled enough themselves to be invested in this issue fucked in the head. That’s a big deal in as much as it totally fucks up our politics.

    Fixed!

  126. 126
    Calouste says:

    @Tsulagi:

    to be a natural born citizen both parents must be US citizens

    .

    I present you the first illegal president of the United States, Chester A. Arthur, whose father only became a naturalized citizen when Chester was 13.

    What the commentor of course meant was that, according to him, to be a natural born citizen both parents must be white.

  127. 127
    cleek says:

    @ManOutOfTime:
    to which the OPEC guys will respond : okie dokie, no oil for you, Cap’n Hairpeese!

  128. 128
    gex says:

    @NonyNony: I’m going to cut you some slack. Those of us who come here to read what the FPs write would definitely prefer that the thread not be clogged up by people who read the thread and are offended by its very existence who then chime in on that but not the topic at hand.

  129. 129
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Kane:

    There’s no question that birtherism appeals to the racist elements of the Republican party, but more broadly it resonates with Republican voters because it is simply an attack on President Obama. Birtherism is a convenient tool in the arsenal to the objection of a Democratic president, who just happens to be Barack Obama.

    This is fucking nonsense. You know what was “a convenient tool in the arsenal to the objection of a Democratic president”? Calling him a celebrity during the fucking campaign.

    You know what is outright racism? Saying that the first non-white President of the United States is a foreign usurper when all of the evidence betrays you.

    Stop providing cover for the fucking bigots, for fucks sake!

  130. 130
    Jose Padilla says:

    I think the Donald is suggesting that he could lower the oil prices by getting on the phone, making a few calls, and brow beating the CEOs of the major oil companies into lowering their gas prices by a buck or so a gallon. That’s the way a big fucking macher takes care of business! Unfortunately, there are a lot of Republicans who believe this sort of nonsense.

  131. 131
    aimai says:

    @freelancer:

    Freelancer used the word “fractious stupidity” but I think the right term might be FRACTAL stupidity. As you get closer and closer to any single cape of stupidity you see the shoreline break up into millions upon millions of tiny, fjord like stupidities as the insanity involutes on itself.

    aimai

  132. 132
    cckids says:

    @Dave:

    Don’t you know? That is pretty much Trump’s plan. To go over and “take” the oil. Because it’s just that easy!

    Well, that, and Trump supposedly believes that Obama can “get on the phone with the Middle East & say, enough. You’ve had your fun. But now its over.” And gas prices will magically fall!!!

    When you have your own version of reality constantly playing in your head, all kinds of things are easy.

  133. 133
    gex says:

    @TG Chicago: Close. He did go all, “why won’t he just release the BC” a while ago. It was after the BC was released though. He kept on it for a few days before he could be bothered to find out that Obama had in fact released the BC.

    Given that, it really isn’t that surprising that he’s back there again. Because he doesn’t care about the facts of the matter, nor that he is participating in the constant attacks on the President’s legitimacy.

    @Jose Padilla: Maybe he can take a page out of McCain’s diplomacy book and bang some heads together.

  134. 134
    celticdragonchick says:

    @aimai:

    Freelancer used the word “fractious stupidity” but I think the right term might be FRACTAL stupidity. As you get closer and closer to any single cape of stupidity you see the shoreline break up into millions upon millions of tiny, fjord like stupidities as the insanity involutes on itself.

    That is a hyper-specialized branch of mathematics. Dr. John Hatch at Guilford College does a lot of the theoretical work with infinite complex shapes in an infinitesimal area. I should ask him if we can apply his research to the wingularity.

  135. 135
  136. 136
    gex says:

    Ultimately, I find that Andrew’s interesting intellectual exercises are things that make me wish his parents had either had more or less lead paint in their house.

  137. 137
    Kane says:

    @Midnight Marauder:
    Point taken. And I agree with you; these attacks on President Obama are racist.

    But what I was trying to say is, is that if Bill Richardson were president, the very same people would be making stuff up and playing on his Hispanic heritage. And if Hillary Clinton were president, the usual suspects would be repeating the old conspiracies about Vince Foster and constantly questioning her sexuality. Republicans use whatever tool is available in their attempt to vilify and delegitimize a Democratic president.

  138. 138
    ruemara says:

    @MagicPanda:

    Dude, bigots are being bigoted. end of story.

  139. 139
    Comrade Mary says:

    @Ian: But — but — he has “Techno” in his name, so he must know all things technical!

  140. 140
    MagicPanda says:

    @Jay in Oregon: That’s a good point.

    I said some stuff above that touched a few nerves, so maybe I should clarify (or perhaps dig myself a deeper hole).

    Which of the following noxious ideas is closer to the birther meme? (a) Barack Obama spent his childhood in Indonesia and is a secret Muslim agent of some kind, or (b) Barack Obama is black, and therefore he is (insert racial stereotype here).

    What I am trying to get at is that (a) is closer to the birther meme than (b).

    Of course, there is plenty of racist BS going around as well (affirmative action complaints, the “whitey tape”, all the talk about “producers” vs. “entitlements” aka welfare queen aka “young buck”) and racist BS overlaps somewhat with this idea of Obama being a secret muslim, but I still think the “secret muslim” BS is a more direct driver of the birther stuff than straight up racism. That’s what I meant by xenophobia.

    I will now stop digging.

  141. 141
    efgoldman says:

    @Eric S.:

    Does “GOBP” = “Good Ol’ Boys Party?”

    Formerly kryptic beat me to it.
    Although I’m pretty much the only one who uses it here, anymore.

  142. 142
    Mike Lamb says:

    @Joe Beese: Chutzpah, thy name is Beese.

  143. 143
    maus says:

    @MagicPanda:

    Which of the following noxious ideas is closer to the birther meme? (a) Barack Obama spent his childhood in Indonesia and is a secret Muslim agent of some kind, or (b) Barack Obama is black, and therefore he is (insert racial stereotype here) … Of course, there is plenty of racist BS going around as well (affirmative action complaints, the “whitey tape”, all the talk about “producers” vs. “entitlements” aka welfare queen aka “young buck”) and racist BS overlaps somewhat with this idea of Obama being a secret muslim, but I still think the “secret muslim” BS is a more direct driver of the birther stuff than straight up racism. That’s what I meant by xenophobia.

    I understand, but as the actual racist dialogue exists, it’s tough to separate them entirely from their context.

  144. 144
    Ian says:

    @Comrade Mary: Heh. I put together a blog post if anybody wants it:

    http://snappishproductions.com.....icate.html

  145. 145
    Mnemosyne says:

    @MagicPanda:

    What I am trying to get at is that (a) is closer to the birther meme than (b).

    Here’s the thing, though — it’s very clear after the events of the past couple of years that “Muslim” is the new way to say “n-gger,” kind of like the way that DA was caught referring to black people as “Canadians” so he could say racist things in e-mails and not get caught.

    The Republicans have spent a lot of time and effort getting those two words to equate with each other (see also the Burlington Coat Factory Mosque freakout), and a whole lot of their voters are on board with that. So when conservatives say that Obama is a “Muslim,” they’re using the new code word.

    ETA: Real-life, unrelated example: I have a cousin who is developmentally disabled. We used to say she was “retarded” until jerks turned that into a bad word. Now my dad has started calling her “autistic” because, to him, it’s the polite way to say “retarded.”

    Same with “Muslim.” It’s now the polite way to say “n-gger.”

  146. 146
    MagicPanda says:

    @Mnemosyne: Wow, that retarded -> autistic shift seems like a good parallel.

  147. 147
    TuiMel says:

    @aimai:

    Also, I think the Donald’s “get on the phone and do something” is also an echo of John McCain’s famous strategy of “telling them to cut the shit out” or whatever he proposed as his final solution for Iraq.

    All his tough-guy, “you’re fired,” rhetoric about how HE would approach problem solving is of a piece with the McCain quote you cite. Like so many CEO’s, Trump confuses authority of position – which serves him in his corporate world – with actual authority, which is something he brings little or none of to the table of governing in today’s world.

    Deep in his ego-choked soul he must know this; he just wants his TV show renewed. I keep hoping he has jumped the shark.

  148. 148
    Brachiator says:

    @MagicPanda:

    Which of the following noxious ideas is closer to the birther meme? (a) Barack Obama spent his childhood in Indonesia and is a secret Muslim agent of some kind, or (b) Barack Obama is black, and therefore he is (insert racial stereotype here).

    How is one separate from the other? They all come together as “Obama is not one of us and cannot be one of us.” It’s not about racial stereotypes. It’s about racism.

    Consider: Some bonehead wrote about how Obama magically absorbed his father’s supposed anti-colonialism. And yet Representative Peter King could openly talk about his Irish Republicanism (and note here that I am not arguing the validity of Irish nationalism). But it is acceptable for King to have an actual history of supporting a group that opposed British interests, but for Obama, this supposed inheritance of anti-colonialism is claimed to be anti-American and anti-white.

    Further, being a secret Muslim and being black (e.g., a black nationalist) are both considered to be inherently and irreversible against whatever it is makes up a Real American.

  149. 149
    MagicPanda says:

    @Brachiator: Totally agree with your assessment.

    And yet, I think that “not one of us” is complex.

    Imagine talking to a birther and saying that birtherism has roots in racism. I could easily imagine that person saying something like “I’m not racist. I’d vote for Condelezza Rice in a heartbeat!”

    Which, in a sense, is 100% consistent with what you said. Condelezza Rice is not an “other” to that person because she’s a Republican.

    Anyway, my point is not that racism doesn’t exist, or that racism isn’t connected with birtherism. My belief (not shared by all) is that calling people out on their racism isn’t always so clear cut, and doesn’t always help.

    My preference is to call birthers idiots and lunatics, because THAT is just a factual statement. But that’s just me.

  150. 150
    maus says:

    @Brachiator:

    How is one separate from the other? They all come together as “Obama is not one of us and cannot be one of us.” It’s not about racial stereotypes. It’s about racism.

    It’s not racist if he’s a brown “other” and unAmerican, just xenophobic. It’s only racism if he’s African-American?

  151. 151
    jazzgurl says:

    Americans can’t or won’t think for themselves. Only when the msm conditioned them with the birther issue,then,and only then did they parrot it verbatim.
    America, the laughing stock of the world.

  152. 152
    pattonbt says:

    @Yutsano:

    “Let’s face it: Clinton had a rough go, but no one tried to question his legitimacy to hold the office in the first place”

    I disagree. The haters painted Clinton as white trash (although they, surprisingly, did give him his due on intelligence and charisma) and someone of not pure enough breeding to hold the highest office.

    “They came in and trashed the place, and it’s not their place.”.

    The Clinton’s were “the others” as well, just of a different sort. So while I think most of the Obama birtherism is of the xenophobia bent (tribalism – “he’s not us”) it sure helps that much of that base also likes their dog whistles too. Win win for the cretins – “xenophobia and racism two great tastes that taste great together”.

  153. 153
    Bobby Thomson says:

    @Brachiator:

    You really have to wonder at the stupidity of the advice Trump is getting. It really makes him look like a fool.

    The Donald is his own consigliere. Anyone who nominally advises him has been picked as a Yes man. And he is a fool, so that’s not just an appearance problem.

  154. 154
    The Sailor says:

    @eemom: Don’t like it, don’t read it. Simple answers to stupid complaints.

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