This cracked me up. In yet another investigation into where Obama was born, CNN discovers that he is, in fact, an American citizen. But the story also included this gem:
Rick Smethurst, a 2008 John McCain voter who now lives in Obama’s childhood home in Hawaii, counts himself among the doubters. He said he wants to find someone who saw Obama immediately after the president was born.
Did they even need to point out he was a McCain voter? Of course he was. So now, after spending years doubting the certificates, they grudgingly accept their validity, but now want someone who saw the Kenyan usurper right after birth. And guess what? We have that:
Hawaii Gov. Neil Abercrombie said he did. Abercrombie, a Democrat, was friendly with Ann Dunham, Obama’s mother, and remembers celebrating the birth.
“Of course, we had no idea at the time that the future president of the United States was that little boy, that little baby,” Abercrombie recalled. But “we are very, very happy … that took place.”
Professor Alice Dewey of the University of Hawaii was a faculty adviser to Dunham and also knew the future president when he was a child. She called the controversy “funny.” She said there is “no way” Obama wasn’t born in the state.
Dewey remembered a conversation in which Dunham compared the birth of Obama with that of his sister, Maya, who was born overseas.
“She said, ‘When I had Maya, it was a lot of more difficult because Indonesia doesn’t believe in painkillers while you’re giving birth. … Of course, in the United States, giving birth to Barry (Obama’s childhood nickname) was quite different and much more comfortable,’ ” Dewey recalled.
Waidelich’s mother, Monika, said she believes she saw Obama in Honolulu’s Kapi’olani Medical Center next to her son in 1961.
“In those days, there were hardly any other black babies,” she said.
The hospital wouldn’t show patient records from 1961, but the state’s African-American population was less than 1% at the time.
Regardless of the evidence, there may be no convincing some of those who question the president’s origins.
There simply is no amount of evidence that will be enough for these clowns, Donald Trump and Franklin Graham and the rest of these assholes stirring up this crap should be shunned from polite society.
Alan in SF
Sure, but did anyone see Neil Abercrombie immediately after his birth? How do we know he’s not a Kenyan sleeper agent sent to Hawaii forty years ago in furtherance of the plan?
Karen
Since circumcision is now considered proof of US citizenship, I say Donald Trump should be forced to whip it out. Or is he nervous about the media reporting how tiny it is?
LittlePig
Exactly. It’s a hole with no bottom.
Just like with the “affirmative action” crap. If they show the transcripts, then the furor will be that the President took Home Ec or some such nonsense.
Facts have nothing to do with it. These folks don’t believe in empiricism. God told ’em he was born in Kenya, they believe it, that settles it.
Villago Delenda Est
This is exactly right.
This thing cannot be settled with documentation or testimony of any sort. It’s a belief, an article of faith. The guy is Near. That can NEVER be changed. Everything else is pretense, is code, what have you. Barack Obama is Near.
But they can’t say that.
So they come up with something, anything else. Sort of like the entire Clinton impeachment thing. We’ve got to find SOMETHING, ANYTHING!
Ghanima Atreides
Want in to the pool?
Citizen X—Tucker Carlson
Paul and cat48—Thomas Sowell
Omnes— Chunky Bobo
Jenjen and Mastertroll Doug—Charles Lane
Ghani_chan— Bobo
Opie Jean and Hungry Joe — George Will
Fuckhead—Maureen Dowd
danimal—Dr. Krauthammer
ThatLeftTurnInABQ—Howard Kurtz
Benjamin Cisco—Monica Crowley
AliceBlue—Wolf Blitzer AND Joe Klein
Admiral_Komack and Comrade Javamanphil—Halperin
artem1s—Buchanan
No one has taken Weigel or Larison yet.
;)
Jay in Oregon
Yeah, but why did it take so long for these people to step forward??? /birther
When it comes to conspiracy theories, any evidence that disproves it is actually proof of the brilliance of the coverup.
Richard Bottoms
Nigger, nigger, nigger 2011 style.
BerkeleyMom
Unless each of these idiots got a personal invitation to watch the baby Obama come down the birth canal, they will be doubters. I wonder if they got paternity tests for their own kids–hey, you never know!
Jon Rockoford
Here’s what totally puzzles me:
Obama’s mother was an American citizen, born to America citizens. Nobody has question her citizenship (well, at least so far). So, even if Obama wasn’t born stateside, as the child of an American mother, he’s an American. End of story.
Why isn’t this mentioned every time some birther asshole opens his mouth?
P.S. McCain was actually born in Panama.
Nemesis
McCain was born in Panama.
Silver Owl
Next thing you know they’ll want Obama’s first shitty diaper to be analyzed.
aimai
@Jay in Oregon:
No, even worse, they’ll say “Oh, sure, some obscure hippie chick with a black kid just happens to be friends with the future Governor of Hawaii?”
aimai
pragmatism
rumproast has decided to call trump the 11 dimensional combover. its funny cause its true.
there’s nothing more ‘murican than hoping/projecting that a technicality will overturn an election. exceptional indeed.
David
Here is a comment from a regular on a birther site called ThePost&Email:
“I remember the news in 1960/1961-i remember the interviews with Stanley Ann Dunham as she was about to leave the USA to “go over the water to marry her baby’s daddy-her black prince(My Mother’s Words) Was obamas daddy a prince? read “whose your mama, Who’s your daddy” on this site.”
Redleg
Phuck ’em and the horse they rode in on. At what point will someone in the mainstream media say what needs to be said- these rectums are driven by their revulsion of having a black president. Period.
Violet
I wonder what would happen if someone tracked down Ann Dunhan’s OB and/or the doctor who was resident at the delivery, along with any nurses who were resident there. Would that settle anything?
Howlin Wolfe
@Ghanima Atreides: Jake Tapper for $400, Alex.
pablo
I seen it on a website, and I felt the screen, but I didn’t feel no raised seal!
eric
@Ghanima Atreides: Mort Zuckerman
Alex Gurney Halleck-S.
Even if they saw that perfect longform birth certificate that didn’t exist at that time and place they would declare it a fake.
Cermet
I’m very happy Trump is doing this – he is having a grand time, and showing birtherism as the tool it is – to be used to gain media attention from people
by people with an IQ only a bit more than those watching. Considering the very large amounts of money Trump gave to many demorats, Trump is now taking the steam out of many thug’s trying to run – hope he can keep this up longer but even the media whores lose interest after a short time.
kdaug
Articles of faith require no stinking facts.
@Ghanima Atreides: Welcome back, m_c. You’re like the anti-Doctor. When he changes form, he’s still called The Doctor. You change your handle, but you’ll always be m_c.
Gus
No, they want someone they know personally to verify that they saw him right after birth.
Villago Delenda Est
@pablo:
I believe the thread has been won. Thank you all for participating!
Villago Delenda Est
@pablo:
I believe the thread has been won. Thank you all for participating!
handy
@Jon Rockoford:
You go with the conspiracy theories you want, no with the facts you have.
Jay C
What? Gov. Neil Abercrombie says he knew Ann Dunham and Baby Barry? THIS Neil Abercrombie?
I mean, just look at this guy! Does he look trustworthy to YOU? And a Democrat, besides???
I smell conspiracy!
Nemesis
Wow. Just watched CNN “refute” birfer claims.
Steady there, CNN.
Are you sure you want to take such a bold stand?
Jay in Oregon
@aimai:
Nah, it’s even easier than that. Abercromie is just paying back Obama’s Chicago Politics machine for getting him elected as governor by sticking up for the President.
Yutsano
@Violet: Prolly not, as they are either A) dead or B) too old to remember much. Although in a colorful place such as Hawai’i a biracial black baby might stick out in their memory. It was almost 50 years ago though. And even sworn testimonials will not be enough. JC is right, there will NEVER be “enough”.
Xecky Gilchrist
If I could move as fast as those birther goalposts, I’d win the Olympic hundred meter sprint.
Ghanima Atreides
@Howlin Wolfe: niice. i liek ur style.
Citizen X—Tucker Carlson
Paul and cat48—Thomas Sowell
Omnes— Chunky Bobo
Jenjen and Mastertroll Doug—Charles Lane
Ghani_chan— Bobo
Opie Jean and Hungry Joe — George Will
Fuckhead—Maureen Dowd
danimal—Dr. Krauthammer
ThatLeftTurnInABQ—Howard Kurtz
Benjamin Cisco—Monica Crowley
AliceBlue—Wolf Blitzer AND Joe Klein
Admiral_Komack and Comrade Javamanphil—Halperin
artem1s—Buchanan
Howlin Wolfe– Jake Tapper
eric– Mort Zukerman
c’mon kdaug….who do you liek?
MikeBoyScout
Orly Taitz for President!
She may not be constitutionally eligible (birth certificate), but she is our new Alisa Rosenbaum!
Alex Gurney Halleck-S.
@Ghanima Atreides:
Aww, I was hoping for Murbella. She is fierce.
Villago Delenda Est
@Ghanima Atreides:
I’m with you. The vile ambulatory sack of shit that is BoBo will be the one who brings this cretinism to the mainstream.
Martin
I’m just going to say that when Obama was sent back from the future to destroy America, it would have been just as easy to plant this evidence as well. Doesn’t change a thing.
Nemesis
@Redleg: Networks are driving eyeballs with birferism.
Ash Can
I think it’s high time we all started questioning the backgrounds of the birthers themselves. What’s going on/what went on in their lives to make them obsess about this kind of thing? What are they trying to hide or deny? Is it irresponsible to speculate?
Alex Gurney Halleck-S.
@Ghanima Atreides:
I’ll play. Bill Kristol.
Shoemaker-Levy 9
Do our mainstream outlets really have nothing better to do than this? What’s next, all day coverage of the marriage of an heir to a patriarchal, despotic, theocratic lineage, which spends millions on empty ceremonies which celebrate unearned wealth and privilege while the poor and middle classes suffer savage cuts to government programs, representing a tiny class of inbred parasites of the kind whom our Founding Fathers rightly described as despots and tyrants? Surely our intrepid journalist class will not follow up this pointless birther investigation with something as apalling as that.
Chris Wolf
And we should shun them, too.
cleek
@Jon Rockoford:
birther mythology states that his mother did not satisfy various citizenship requirements – which she did, but the mythology demands a misinterpretation of the relevant facts and statutes to make it so she didn’t.
Villago Delenda Est
@Nemesis:
The Paulistas actually tried to run with that as a reason not to nominate McCain in ’08.
The seeds were being planted for denial of the events of 4 November ’08 even then.
Crashman
@Ghanima Atreides: Hell, I’ll take Weigel. I know it’s a longshot, but he’s been writing a lot of crap lately.
Villago Delenda Est
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
You’re killing me small, man.
RalfW
They should even be shunned from rude society.
Blatant racism is well beyond rude. It’s evil.
John Cole
@Ghanima Atreides: I’ll take Dick Morris.
Someone should have Mara Liasson and Juan Williams.
Bmaccnm
Last night, I spent one or two of the finite hours of my life reading birther comments @ AOL. (I have bad empty-nest syndrome, OK? Don’t judge me) When did school records get dragged into this? I am the same age as Barack Obama. My state sanctioned proof of birth from the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania looks exactly like his. I couldn’t produce my school records even if I tried, and they have no bearing on my performance as an adult. There is nothing that will satisfy these people. And, after the birther comments, I read a thread about the Donald. Jebus. Obama’s not good enuf for ’em, so they want “a business man who has actually balanced a budget.” Jeebuus. Willful ignorance doesn’t begin to describe this mentality. More like ‘lower than catfish shit.”
Morbo
@Ghanima Atreides: Put me down for Jonah “pantsload” Goldberg.
handy
CNN Headline: “The Moon: We’ve Been There”
Chris
@Shoemaker-Levy 9:
I’m actually quite looking forward to that wedding, thank you very much. Cause I’m hoping the number of people sitting in rapt attention in front of the televisions yields a completely empty and available laundry room in my building, just like the Super Bowl and the Lost finale did.
joes527
So … browsing through the comments on the CNN story … very frightening.
But it begs the question(1) What percentage of the commenter are really that stupid and what percentage are bored kids in their parents’ basement trolling for kicks.
Damn you Poe!
(1) Yes, I know.
soonergrunt
@Jon Rockoford: Oh, they come up with all kinds of elaborate reasons why citizenship doesn’t transfer from mother to child, only father to child, or why him living in Indonesia for more than a year as a child means that he couldn’t have kept US citizenship, or that the 14th amendment doesn’t mean what it plainly says with respect to this case, and so on and so on and so on.
The fact that McCain was born in Panama is utterly irrelevant. He is a natural-born US citizen, and gained citizenship at birth, being born to two US citizens, one of whom was in Panama secondary to official business of the US government. Just like my son, who was born in Germany, and the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of other natural-born US citizens born overseas to military parents.
@Shoemaker-Levy 9: I see what you did there.
Jay in Oregon
OT, but:
I think I remember that guy from an episode of The Tick…
Woodrowfan
Is Limbaugh still available? Or the Savage Weiner??
Hans Solo
“…should be shunned from polite society.”
Hey now, I avoid “Polite Society” too, and certainly don’t want these intellectual after-births rubbing elbows with me and my friends. None of my friends want it either. I know “The Stupid” isn’t contagious, but these people make me wonder. I mean, how does one become so reality impaired/stupid? I’d guess it involves shock therapy, poorly performed brain surgery and an AM radio…
Sasha
Rightwing true believers who already subscribe to the birther theory will not change their minds. They can’t.
If they allow themselves to accept the clear fact that Obama is an American citizen, they will also have to face up to the clear fact that the policies of the modern conservative movement have been devastating to the country (Iraq, torture, fiscal theories leading to the deregulation of the financial sector and a regressive tax policy, etc. ad nauseam).
Worse, they would have to then accept their own culpability not only in electing those responsible for America’s decline, but keeping them in power and defending their policies, no matter how disastrous, unethical, or immoral said policies were.
It is hard for people to admit that they were wrong, and the longer they wait the more difficult it becomes. The birthers will shut their eyes and ears as tightly as they can for as long as possible so that they will not have to admit that not only were they themselves wrong about so many things in the past decade, their political counterparts — whom they constantly derided — were right.
Mattminus
It’s a trap!
They’re making the birtherism more and more explicitly racial hoping to goad the president or a proxy into pointing out the obvious, that this is about racism pure and simple.
Then the floodgates will be open for the right to make it all about race. Imagine Sean Hannity:
“Barrack Hussein Obama views everything through the lens of race. He now says that anyone that disagrees with him politically is a racist. Us republicans believe in MLK’s vision of a colorblind society” and this will then lead to “OMGZ teh reparations!”
really, they’re begging us for the opportunity to let them stoke racial anxiety completely openly (because they’ve been so subtle about it to this point).
Villago Delenda Est
@soonergrunt:
This explains why all the various bastard children of American servicemen on leave/liberty/three day pass/night on the ‘ville in Vietnam/The Phillipines/Korea/Thailand are all granted US citizenship upon request.
What? You mean they don’t get automatic US Citizenship?
The birfers are mistaken about something?
Oh, my…the vapors…they are strong this time…
Bmaccnm
@Hans Solo: I blame high fructose corn syrup and 20 hours in front of the TeeVee every day.
Stooleo
So somebody tell me what the hell is wrong with Jan Brewer? I’ve never seen a Republican come down with a sudden outbreak of sanity. God, I hope its not contagious.
Davis X. Machina
They’re rockin’ the Tantum Ergo:
Praestet fides supplementum
Sensuum defectui.
Let faith provide to the failure of the senses whatever is necessary to reinforce them.
Thomas Aquinas, birther.
JonF
The birther phenomenon is just people wanting to deny to themselves that a black man could get elected president in the US. It’s a cheap way for the movement conservatives to rally support because it makes Obama look illegitimate in the extreme right’s eyes.
Karen
Steve Doocey FTW
amk
Racist motherfuckers will be racist motherfuckers. We, non-americans, are having a great time pointing out and laughing at the amrikkkans.
danimal
@soonergrunt:
FTFY
MikeJ
Speaking of fucked up statements about birth certificates any chance of a retraction of yesterday’s hysterics about the new requirements making it easier to get a US passport? Having such nonsense non-refuted sure makes Balloon-juice look dumb.
Ghanima Atreides
@Alex Gurney Halleck-S.: im evolving to either Murbella….or Darwi Odrade. Ghani is a benign imago stage. we will have to see if i wind up more evil or more good. ;)
@John Cole: dayum. that is inspired.
so totally his style…shaping the narrative.
Citizen X—Tucker Carlson
Paul and cat48—Thomas Sowell
Omnes— Chunky Bobo
Jenjen and Mastertroll Doug—Charles Lane
Ghani_chan and Villago Delenda Est — Bobo
Opie Jean and Hungry Joe — George Will
Fuckhead—Maureen Dowd
danimal—Dr. Krauthammer
ThatLeftTurnInABQ—Howard Kurtz
Benjamin Cisco—Monica Crowley
AliceBlue—Wolf Blitzer AND Joe Klein
Admiral_Komack and Comrade Javamanphil—Halperin
artem1s—Buchanan
Howlin Wolfe—Jake Tapper
eric—Mort Zukerman
Cole– Dick Morris
morbo– Jonah Goldberg
alex Gurney Halleck — Bill Kristol
crashman –Dave Weigel
Karen– Steve Doucey
@Woodrowfan: im sry but we eliminated Hannity, Rush, Malkin, Beck etc. as too crazy. Who is the Savage Weiner? Paul Ryan? He is a congresscritter, not a pundit.
Karen
@Stooleo: I think Jan Brewer has bigger aspirations than Governor. I also think that the only reason she vetoed the Birther bill was that she was counting on the Repubicans to override it. This way she can have her cake and eat it too.
Kilkee
@Yutsano: Actually, I recall seeing a comment by a nurse from Hawaii who reounted a conversation with the doctor (since deceased) who delivered Obama. She’d asked him about his week and he mused about how unusual it was that “Well, Stanley just had a baby,” commenting on Obama’s mother’s given name. He also told her that “Barack Hussein Obama” was the kid’s name, and my, my, isn’t that just such a lyrical name? I’m sure you can Google your way to the story; wish I had a link handy.
Nemesis
@Stooleo: Jan got a call from Karl Rove.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Yutsano:
There is an interview somewhere (I will dig it out if need be) of the nurse of the doctor who delivered him. She was having lunch with him and she said “did anything exciting happen today” (or words to that effect) and he laughed and said “Yes Stanley had a baby” they actually focused more on the unusual name given to a female rather than the fact that the baby was black, which was rare in 1961 Hawaii.
ETA someone beat me to it.
amk
One bitter fact about us of a is two bit hacks populate the third rate fourth estate who are truly the fifth columnists.
Villago Delenda Est
When you consider that “movement conservatives” consider the White House to be their personal property, it explains the all the shit surrounding both Clinton and Obama.
While they might disagree with the policies of these two men (not so much NAFTA in the case of Clinton, of course), the fact that they are Democrats is proof that they can’t possibly be legitimate Presidents.
During the Reagan assministration, they got the idea that the Presidency was theirs, and theirs alone. Interestingly, the Democrats never got this idea from the presidencies of FDR and Truman…a period of 20 solid years of Democrats in the WH.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Thank you for that little bit of helpful commentary. Where are you from? I am assuming that your native land is entirely free of political stupidity and all of your citizens are above average, right?
soonergrunt
@John Cole:
@Ghanima Atreides: I’ll take them.
fasteddie9318
Great. CNN settled an issue that was already settled and should never have been an issue to begin with.
Now, does this mean they’ll stop their goddamn “shape of the world; opinions differ” reporting on this fucking thing and start reporting fact and labeling people who traffic in lies? I don’t think so.
p.a.
Film (no video in ’61, right?) of his actual birth, as long as Mauna Loa or Mauna Kea are visible through an in-frame window, and the FBI verifies no film tampering. This isn’t any more unreasonable than the new requirements for a passport.
Emma
Violet: I remember an interview with someone who spoke to Obama’s doctor the night of his birth. She remembered is specially because her father’s name was Stanley and the Doctor told her that “Stanley had her baby.” Wish I could remember where I saw it.
Martin
@Ghanima Atreides: Put me down for Megyn Kelly.
And Elizabeth Hasselbeck has to also be eliminated since she’s already gone there.
Southern Beale
Well, see? Clearly the fact that Hawaii’s Gov. Neil Abercrombie, a DEMOCRAT, claims he saw the baby just proves that this whole thing is a big conspiracy and a cover up and everything. Can’t you see? He’s in on it, man!!!!! I’m telling you, it’s a vast left wing conspiracy to put an Indonesian Kenyan usurper in the White House so … so … so … he can support very moderate if not conservative policies which have all been advocated in some form or another by both Republicans and Democrats over the years.
/sarcasm
Seriously, no one ever bothers to explain why anyone would even do this. It’s not like Obama is some fringe lefty radical, the liberal equivalent of any of the crackpot Teanut governors enacting draconian policies in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, etc.
soonergrunt
@Villago Delenda Est: I know you’re being snarky, but as a follow-up, children in that cirmcumstance, who wish to claim US citizenship must prove a blood link to a US citizen. That’s why all those Amerasian kids from the Viet Nam war couldn’t get US citizenship. You have to have a specific person to test your DNA against.
D.N. Nation
@Ghanima Atreides:
Put me down for Tom Sowell.
Southern Beale
@p.a.:
Please you know the kerning still won’t match.
/sarcasm
soonergrunt
@Ghanima Atreides: That refers to Michael Savage, crazy racist radio conspiracy nut. His actual birth name is Michael Weiner.
You should probably disallow him because the probability that he’ll push this as soon as possible is 1.00
MikeJ
@p.a.: Jesus fuck, read the goddamned thread from yesterday before you say anything that stupid again.
Martin
@p.a.: Great, just what we need – a million wingnut bloggers screaming ‘but the doctor pulls the baby back and to the left. Why would he do that if the baby is being pushed from behind? Why would he move it back, and to the left…’
Southern Beale
Maybe this has been discussed already but no one ever mentions this: does it even matter WHERE Obama was born since his mother was a citizen? Doesn’t that automatically make him a citizen, regardless?
Kilkee
@Litlebritdifrnt: Great minds, yada yada…
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: Political stupidity everywhere is to be mocked at. Or you think, “the greatest country on earth” deserves an exception ? Did I hurt your tender feelings ? Get over it. Every other country is laughing at your teabaggimg morons right now.
Josie
@Ghanima Atreides: I’ll take Halperin. He is partisan enough to push anything against Obama.
Villago Delenda Est
@soonergrunt:
Which underscores the utter fallacy of the “Blut und Boden” approach to what it is to be an American.
It’s not about the DNA. It’s not about ethnic purity.
It’s about the ideals.
Which is why a lot of nominal Americans don’t deserve to be Americans.
Litlebritdifrnt
@cleek:
Not to nit-pick but blind squirrel, stopped clock and all that but the birfers actually have this one correct. At the time POTUS was born there was a regulation that stated in order to confer citizenship to her child born overseas Stanley Ann had to have been a resident of the US for (I think it was 5) years after her 18th birthday. If POTUS had been born in Kenya (which of course he wasn’t) Stanley Anne’s citizenship would not have mattered.
The lawyers over at Fogbow tracked down the relevant regulations for 1961 (they have changed many times since) and came to the conclusion that actually agreed with the birfers on that one issue.
I see this “doesn’t matter where he was born his mother was a citizen therefore he is” quoted in the comments sections of many articles which quickly get infested by the birfer flying monkeys. It is amazing how many people are unaware of the complex rules that were in place back then. Of course the birfers are wrong about absolutely every thing else of course. Goes without saying.
Kilkee
@Southern Beale: To sane people, yes. But the birthers have created an entirely new level of Constitutional analysis that proves — proves, I tell you! — that citizenship only passes through the father, and that therefore young Barack was born a british subject.
Paul in KY
@John Cole: Does Dick Morris qualify as a ‘mainstream journalist’?
Sheesh, I took Thomas Sowell, so what the Hell am I complaining about?
trollhattan
@Nemesis:
Yup, the Roves aren’t so delusional as to think this is a winning strategy. They’re also keenly aware of the millstone represented by the TeaHadists. How they plan to shut them up will be fascinating to watch for. I don’t know if they have a sufficiently large supply of shiny things.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Southern Beale:
See above.
birthmarker
Seems like there is a lot of backing off birtherism in the political world today. (Brewer, Priebus, CNN etc.) Birtherism is so yesterday.
My guess the new meme will be affirmative action. Trump talked of that today.
Karl has spoken, probably. If you recall he went on air a few days ago saying that he had given Trump a way out, which Trump didn’t take. Then a day or two later Trump says he is dropping it. The Rove comment was basically a public scolding. Birtherism probably wasn’t polling well with independents.
AA will play better because it is us vs.them.
I think the G.A. pool should be awarded to the first one to mainstream Obama/affirmative action, starting with today’s date. I bet on C. Thomas who already had a head start on talking about the issue. CNN would be my second choice.
OT–John, is it too late to suggest a couple of things for the lexicon?
I suggest Denouncing (insert hated dictator), and circle jerk. Also, a brief entry explaining how to link would be greatly appreciated.
Ghanima Atreides
@soonergrunt: you cant have all of them! that is cheating! pick one or two.
;)
Southern Beale
But the birthers have created an entirely new level of Constitutional analysis that proves—proves, I tell you!—that citizenship only passes through the father…
Well fuckit, that means I’m not a citizen, my dad was born in Kiev.
rikryah
he’sssss
Black
Black
Black
Black
Blackedity
Blackilicious
Black
Black
Ghanima Atreides
@birthmarker: the new birtherism is islamophobia.
Amir_Khalid
The CNN story was never going to win over any hardcore birther. It’s well known that an irrational but deeply-held belief can’t be dispelled by any amount of rational argument or evidence or eyewitness testimony. I looked at the very first comment under the CNN story, and sure enough…
Worse, you can’t even move on from the subject. If you adduce evidence that conclusively refutes The Belief, The Powers That Be made that shit up. If you stop bringing it up, that’s a sign that The Powers That Be want the matter swept under the carpet.
The birthers demand to see the “original long form” of Obama’s birth certificate, a document that doesn’t even exist. What does exist is a vital record that Obama has no right to ask for, and that the state of Hawai’i has no right to give out or publish.
The deluded birthers are merely wrong. But here’s a point I wish were made more often about birtherism: those who pander to the deluded are outright evil, and should be so described in a public forum. That’s every Trump who seeks to profit from spreading this falsehood. Every Bachmann who professes to “take Obama at his word” on this (for what it’s worth, the birth certificate is the state of Hawai’i’s word, not Obama’s, that he was born there).
Chris
@Amir_Khalid:
More than that. I’ve read research suggesting that these kinds of beliefs are actually reinforced when confronted. Something about vindicated persecution complexes or God knows what.
soonergrunt
@Ghanima Atreides: Oh, sorry. I’ll take Juan Williams and Candy Crowley.
Tonal Crow
All Republicans should be shunned. But we should encourage them to pursue birtherism precisely because it will tend to discredit them and increase the number of people who shun them.
Bobby Thomson
Litlebritdifrnt has it right.
Both parents U.S. citizens = natural born citizen.
Born on U.S. soil = natural born citizen.
Born elsewhere, one parent is a U.S. citizen but one is not = “it depends.”
Kilkee
href=”http://nativeborncitize.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/well-today-stanley-had-a-baby”>
kd bart
These are the same clowns who denied John Kerry’s his war record and his purple hearts. Don’t you know that Kerry and Obama were hanging out with the Maus Maus in Kenya during the late 60s.
Southern Beale
@Litlebritdifrnt:
And how old was she when POTUS was born? Just curious.
It’s all too stupid to be believed. For that matter, I have no problem letting naturalized citizens be POTUS, far too many people are ineligible for that stupid reason alone. When Obama is out of office and it’s no longer a hot button issue I think Congress should address it.
Bobby Thomson
And I don’t think Donald Trump ever was accepted in “polite” society.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Kilkee:
It is hilarious that these so called “patriots” of “the greatest country in the world” seem to be quite happy to cede to the rules of a foreign country (one that it fought to be free of) when it comes to the citizenship of its children.
As we always point out to them in their blogs “if Castro declared everyone in the US a Cuban citizen tomorrow you’d all be shit out of luck”
cleek
@MikeJ:
magic 8 ball says “No”
Kilkee
@Litlebritdifrnt: I thought that this had been determined to apply only to naturalised American citizens as mothers? Seems very odd otherwise. Why would the country decide that, e.g., an 18-year old American girl living on an American airbase in Germany who’d been there since she was 14 could not convey citizenship to her child?
David Hunt
@Jon Rockoford:
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: btw, do you need to see my birth certificate too ? Which one, long form or the other ?
A country where uneducated racist sucmballs like rush, klannity and radio shock jocks make millions spewing lies and venom everyday is worthy of mockery.
You don’t really get the concept of internet, do you ?
Kilkee
@Litlebritdifrnt: Exactly. By this logic, if Britain were to decide that all descendents of British subjects were, in perpetuity, British subjects (and thus, logically, not NBC, that would sure mess with our electoral process.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: No, my feelings aren’t hurt; these people are idiots who deserve to be mocked. As you noted, however, idiocy worldwide should be mocked; so what you have at home?
goblue72
There could be a home 8mm film of the crown of Obama’s head emerging from his mother’s vagina with that day’s copy of the local Hawaiian newspaper in the shot and these fools would claim it was staged and demand proof that the vagina in question was really his mother’s.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Kilkee:
The American Airbase thing would be the difference, considered American Soil. I believe there are a whole different set of rules when it comes to Service people and diplomats. Average citizens and Kenya not so much.
Kilkee
@Southern Beale: And my father was born in Massachusetts, but to an Irish immigrant who was, in the eyes of Britain, a British subject. Hence his son was, as well, but I am damn sure that when he returned from years of combat in WWII that if he’d sought to run for President no one would have claimed he was ineligible.
Nellcote
Trump/WND is trying to Swift Boat the Prez. And once again the media is complicit. Corsi should be making the rounds again when his book comes out.
Tonal Crow
@goblue72:
And then they would begin a jihad to get the “Justice Department” to charge everyone involved in producing and publishing it with production, publication, and possession of obscenity.
birthmarker
@Southern Beale: I believe she was eighteen.
Litlebritdifrnt
@Kilkee:
You will probably get a kick out of this. Created by the brilliant Epecitus over at Fogbow
http://ohforgoodnesssake.com/?p=9550
Kilkee
@Kilkee:
amk
@Omnes Omnibus:
Ah, that, my friend, will have to wait for another day in another relevant post.
azlib
@Karen:
The Republicans do not have enough votes to override the veto. Jan is just finally getting some advice from her business advisors that more crazy laws just drives businesses and tourists away from AZ.
Do not worry, the budget she signed is bad enough.
Jay C
@Stooleo:
Yeah, it does seem like Gov. Jan Brewer has suddenly been stricken with an attack of the sane: but over and above the usual Obama/”birther” nonsense, she seems to give away (probably inadvertently) another reason to quash the “birther bill”: to wit: (from the TPM link)
IIJM, or does it seem like the “elected officials” “down the path”
arewere most likely intended to be those who have names ending in “ez”?Kilkee
@Kilkee: Oops. Try that with “citizen” spelled correctly….And then search Rodney West — the doc who delivered BHO.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Don’t use McCainisms at me.
David Hunt
@John Cole:
I don’t know know about Williams, but just last week I heard Liasson on NPR reading out the all the facts about Obama’s birth and his records and clearly stating that he was Born in Hawaii. I don’t think she’d make that major a u-turn unless she was getting an hour-long show on Fox with an iron-clad contract for at least two years…
Kilkee
@Litlebritdifrnt: Oh thanks! What a great site!
Villago Delenda Est
@kd bart:
Yeah, I love that.
John Kerry, guy who got wounded in combat in his generation’s war, not a legitimate candidate for President.
George W. Bush, deserter from the Air National Guard, specifically said he didn’t want to serve overseas on the form that asked about that, a legitimate candidate for President.
Woodrowfan
well the good ones are mostly taken, so if no one else has grabbed him I’ll go with Juan Williams…
Jay in Oregon
@Kilkee:
Ah yes. Barack Obama, Sr. was the father but maternity cannot be proven… *boggle*
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: Then start growing a skin. A brain would be still better.
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: Grow a sense of humor; that last one was a joke.
soonergrunt
@Woodrowfan: I beat you to him at 105.
PurpleGirl
@Southern Beale: The birthers also persist in misinterpreting a section of Naturalization law so they can claim something about Ann Dunham’s age meaning she couldn’t pass on US citizenship.
amk
@Omnes Omnibus: Ha,ha. Happy now ? :)
Omnes Omnibus
@soonergrunt: Yeah, but you are claiming everyone. Stop bogarting the dipshits.
MCA
@SouthernBeal at 2:26 (“Seriously, no one ever bothers to explain why anyone would even do this. It’s not like Obama is some fringe lefty radical, the liberal equivalent of any of the crackpot Teanut governors enacting draconian policies in Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin, etc.”):
While this is true, it bears repeating that at least 27% of the United States population – some 75 million+ people, think that indeed Obama is “some fringe Lefty radical.” And that there is no equivalent on the Right, and Walker, Kasich, et. al. are just straight up real conservatives rather than amongst the most hardcore Rightwingers who’ve ever actually been elected in this country. People in the U.S. are completely unaware that a clone of Obama dropped into most modern democracies would end up leading the Conservative Party there.
Villago Delenda Est
Didn’t the AZ birfer law have some provision for a baptismal certificate being required?
Wouldn’t that be a pretty direct violation of the 1st Amendment?
soonergrunt
I’m not claiming everyone. Just Juan Williams and Candy Crowley.
Now, yeah, they’re dipshits, but they were free for the taking.
PurpleGirl
@Villago Delenda Est: I think it was that if the person didn’t have or couldn’t produce a birth certificate (!!!?) a certificate of circumcision or baptism would suffice.
ETA: But I don’t think they said certificates had to be from US churches or mohels/hospitals.
Jay in Oregon
@Kilkee:
According to this page, before May of 1934 only fathers could pass U.S. citizenship to their children. (IANAL so I can make no claims to the accuracy of this information.)
Then there’s this piece:
Stanley Ann Dunham was 18 at the time and Barack Sr., so Barack Jr. would not automatically acquire citizenship… if he was born outside of the United States. Unfortunately for the birthers, the page I’m quoting above only refers to children born to U.S. citizens outside of the United States.
Barack Obama Jr. was born in Hawaii 2 years after it became a state (and Hawaii was a territory for about 60 years before that); If you’re born in the United States on one of its territories, you are a citizen. That’s why the birthers hang so much on the “He was really born in Kenya!” angle; if they could “prove” that, then it would mean that Barack Obama is Constitutionally ineligible to be President.
Just Some Fuckhead
@aimai:
Single welfare mom, even.
catclub
@MCA: “Obama is “some fringe Lefty radical.” And that there is no equivalent on the Right.
The second part is true, there is no equivalent GOP politician who is embracing the arguments of the democrats the way Obama embraces those of the GOP.
Of course the Lefty radical stuff is gibberish.
trollhattan
@soonergrunt:
I kan haz Cokie Roberts and a conditional third-round draft pick?
amk
@catclub: You’re sorely missed in the village of fdl.
soonergrunt
@trollhattan: You’ll have to ask the score keeper upthread. Ghanima Atreides, AKA Hermione Granger-Weasley, AKA matoko-chan. But yeah, Cokie, with her glorious “Hawaii, that foreign land” schtick, is a great candidate.
Kilkee
@Jay in Oregon: Yeah, I’ve seen this described before and it frankly makes no sense to me, although that doesn’t mean it’s wrong. On the other hand, I’ve seen several people claim that this applied only to parents who were themselves naturalized citizens, which seems more reasonable. I know this guy purports to be an immigration lawyer, and maybe he’s got it right, but I’m still to entirely sold. Why would we want to deny citizenship to the children of our native-born children just because they had lived outside the country for some years in their youth? Especially since these circumstances would usually be a result of their parents’ actions, such as taking a job in a foreign country and bringing their families along. Seems bizarre to me.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kilkee: There was a time in the early 1900s when a woman would lose her citizenship by marrying a noncitizen.
Stefan
“Barrack Hussein Obama views everything through the lens of race. He now says that anyone that disagrees with him politically is a racist. Us republicans believe in MLK’s vision of a colorblind society” and this will then lead to “OMGZ teh reparations!”
You know, I don’t know whether I find the fact that conservatives now routinely pretend to honor Martin Luther King to be (i) supremely annoying, because how dare they, or (ii) supremely satisfying, because fuck them, he won and they lost and now they have to admit it….
hilts
Fox Nation turns over another rock and comes up with another birther creep
Hawaii State Sen. Sam Slom: “My particular point of view – and why I haven’t identified myself as a ‘birther,’ per se – is that [Obama] probably was born [in Hawaii] and that the real issue is not the birth certificate, but what’s on the birth certificate”
http://nation.foxnews.com/birther-debate/2011/04/25/hawaii-senator-questions-obamas-true-birth-father
Omnes Omnibus
@Stefan: Both/and.
Kilkee
@Omnes Omnibus: That I find easier to believe, regrettably, given the whole “husband and wife are one, and they are the husband” notion of the era. What I find more puzzling, as I mentioned, is why we would want to deny citizenship to the children of our citizens born abroad based on the oddly arbitrary rule that has been cited, especially where it would (as the birthers allege here) mean that a young mother (17 or 18, e.g.) might well not have been alive long enough to meet the criteria for passing along citizenship, i.e., not have lived anywhere for more than 5 years after [her] 16th birthday. Can anyone explain the logic, if any, to this? Or why it makes good policy sense?
gwangung
If it hurts a Democrat, it’s good policy.
You’re a Democrat? You don’t count.
Kilkee
@hilts: Not surpisingly, the Daily Mail in the UK (and others, no doubt) is treating this as if the Pope himself had made this meaningless declaration. OMG! An actual STATE SENATOR!
PurpleGirl
Maybe what we have to do is tell every birther to produce their birth certificate. Tell them they have to produce the paper from the health department in their county/city that shows their birth registration… I’ll bet most people do not have the certified COPY that the government sends you when you request one. And the information they give you changes.
Stefan
I’ve said this before, but back in 1961, it was actually quite common for pregnant, 18 year old white girls from Kansas who were enrolled freshmen at the University of Hawaii to travel halfway around the world to the British crown colony of Kenya to give birth. It was a relatively easy trip, just had to fly Honolulu to LA to NY to London to Cairo to Nairobi and then back again, and well within the financial means of a middle-class college freshman.
Now you’d think it would have been easier for them just to to give birth in Hawaii, the place where they and their families were living and where they got pregnant, but it was something to do with the Kenyan colonial hospitals’ OB-GYN facilities being better and more up-to-date than in the US at the time, I think….
Montysano
Shep Smith continues to try, apparently in vain, to get hisself fired from Fox News: Shepard Smith: “Fox News Can Confirm That The President Of The United States Is A Citizen Of the United States, Period”
handy
@Just Some Fuckhead:
You just had to go and scratch that itch, didn’t you?
Kilkee
@Stefan: But wait, there’s more: by all reliable birther accounts, after she landed in Nairobi she undertook the 300-mile drive over rutted dirt roads to Mombassa, so she could give birth in the territory then being administered by Zanzibar.
I think it had something to do with Patty Duke.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kilkee: I actually haven’t read up on this aspect of immigration and citizenship law recently, so I am going by memory. I do think the commenter above who said that the living in the US rules applied only to non-birth right citizens. The logic being that your parents brought you here when you were 14. You became a citizen through them, but then you moved back to Poland when you were 18 and married your childhood sweetheart. From this, they would assume you never really wanted to be a citizen anyway and, therefore, your child would be a Pole. This, at least, is the logic as I understood it when I did some research on it a couple of years ago.
Kilkee
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, this would make sense to me. But some are saying that it applied even to those, such as Stanley Ann Dunham, who were born in the US, but who (hypothetically) then happened to have a child abroad while not having yet lived in the US for 5 years after their 16th birthday. That’s the notion I find hard to believe. I like your interpretation.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kilkee: That would have meant that 19 y/o American soldier stationed in Germany who got married to a German girl and had a child would not pass on natural born citizenship status to his child. It is possible, of course, but I believe my interpretation above is the correct one. Ultimately, Obama was fucking born in the US, so none of this matters.
Kilkee
@Omnes Omnibus: Agreed, of course. And I agree that it makes no sense. But see the link at comment #147: it’s to an immigration lawyer’s website where he appears to be making precisely that argument. I’ve heard it elsewhere but I don’t think it makes any sense. I’m glad you agree.
piratedan
well it was OT in the prior thread but it sure is pertinent here:
http://current.com/news/93177390_fox-news-can-confirm-that-the-president-of-the-united-states-is-a-citizen-of-the-united-states-period.htm
maybe that’s photo shopped, edited, all I know is that I pulled it from current and that sure LOOKS like Faux news. But since the weather channel doesn’t give hourly reports from Hell, I have no idea whether its snowing there or not.
soonergrunt
The main thing they think they’re going to get is a reversal of various things that Obama has done, if they can prove that he wasn’t eligible to be president.
Never mind that the Constitution does not include any method to remediate the problem except impeachment and conviction, or defeat in a regularly scheduled election, and that there is no legal mechanism to reverse anything he did (Elena Kagan and Sonya Sotomayor will still be SCOTUS Justices, for example) because of the De Facto Officer Doctrine.
I’ve already been on this ride with former LTC Terry Lakin.
Mike
“no amount of evidence that will be enough”
Really? With respect to Republican reality, what about time travel?
Omnes Omnibus
@Kilkee: I’ll be damned. The birthers got something more or less right.
Svensker
@piratedan:
Naw, that’s just Shep Smith. He’s sane. None of the crazy folks will listen to him.
ericblair
To answer a few questions above, the point of residency requirements on parents is to prevent a self-perpetuating group of US citizens somewhere in the world with no ties to the US for generations that the US government will have responsibilities for.
I believe Canada had a run-in with this situation recently with Lebanese residents with Canadian citizenship that the Canadian government had to evacuate, then changed the citizenship laws in a weird non-residency-requirement way, and pissed off a lot of people.
Mnemosyne
@Jay in Oregon:
I still don’t think the law would apply to Stanley Ann Dunham, though. Even the most fevered birfer imaginations don’t try to claim that she was a resident of Kenya, just that she gave birth there. If a natural-born 18-year-old American citizen gave birth while visiting another country, no one would try to claim that the child was not a citizen because his/her mother hadn’t been a US citizen long enough (like, the 18 prior years of her life).
I’m pretty sure that provision was meant for people who are US citizens (either naturalized or born here) who then become residents of another country. So, to riff off of another of the birfer obsessions, you can’t cross the border into the US, give birth to your now US-citizen baby, raise the child in Mexico, and then claim that your grandchild is a US citizen, because the person who can convey citizenship did not live in the US long enough.
I feel stupider for even having to discuss this.
danimal
@Montysano: He’s just playing the “good cop” role.
Shep’s not as obnoxious as the others, but he’s still a choreographed part of the dance.
opie jeanne
@Ghanima Atreides: This your new name, Hermione/MC?
I must not have gotten the memo. ;-)
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
I dunno. I think the out-of-wedlock provisions would probably apply:
It’s to prevent someone who grows up in another country from being able to show up and claim that they’re a citizen because their mother/father was born in the US.
Of course, since the president was born in the US, it’s all moot anyway, but I still don’t think the blind squirrels found a real nut here.
ETA: IMO, for the “five years after age 18” thing to apply, the birfers would have to prove that Stanley Ann Dunham was an actual resident of Kenya, not just there on a visit.
ericblair
@Mnemosyne:
In this case, if the child would be otherwise stateless many countries would give the kid citizenship if born on their soil even without a jus soli law. We’re getting into serious need-a-lawyer territory now.
smiley
Late to this thread so forgive me if this has already been posted. Sums up the problem pretty well.
opie jeanne
@aimai: It’s interesting that their paths crossed so long ago, these two men. Not suspicious, but interesting the way you’ll notice that two or three famous people not only went to the same HS but were in the same graduating class. Two actors I read about last week come to mind, can’t remember* who they were, though.
*I swear I’m going to go to the doc to establish a baseline or something because I’m starting to worry that I have early onset Alzheimers.
opie jeanne
@kdaug: In our hearts.
Mnemosyne
@ericblair:
See the out-of-wedlock provision above. We’re in need-a-lawyer territory, because it absolutely is not as cut and dried as the birfers try to claim since it looks like the American citizen parent has to be a resident of another country for the “five years after age 18” provision to kick in, not just a visitor.
Of course, it’s always been far easier for a woman to pass her citizenship on to her biological child than it is for a man since parentage is a lot easier to prove (or was prior to DNA testing).
Stefan
It’s interesting that their paths crossed so long ago, these two men. Not suspicious, but interesting the way you’ll notice that two or three famous people not only went to the same HS but were in the same graduating class. Two actors I read about last week come to mind, can’t remember* who they were, though.
Barbara Streisand and Neil Diamond, amazingly enough, were in the same high school choir…that must have been one hell of a choir.
Are you thinking of Richard Dreyfuss, Albert Brooks and Rob Reiner? They were all at Beverly Hills High together.
JCT
@Mnemosyne:
It is just an amazing thing how a totally spurious claim without one iota of evidence in support and that is based on the racism of a bunch of seeming half-wits can occupy so many otherwise sentient adults. I’m including myself here, but it really feels like rubber-necking a bad trainwreck at this point.
And if you want to really lose a few IQ points — go read the comments thread for the CNN article. Wow.
kd bart
Did anyone ever come forward with proof that George Bush was actually in Alabama when he was suppose to be?
kd bart
@Stefan:
My favorite. Jimmy Johnson, former Dallas Cowboy coach, sat in front of Janis Joplin in high school homeroom.
Jeffro
I know we’re all guessing who’ll try to mainstream Birtherism in the MSM…
…my question is this: instead of purple-heart Band-Aids like in 2004, what will the 2012 Republican Tea Party convention give out to a) reference birtherism and b) demonstrate low/no class of the attendees?
Or do we not even want to go there, yet?
Mnemosyne
@kd bart:
My personal favorite: Mr. Rogers and George “Night of the Living Dead” Romero. Yes, apparently Mr. Rogers liked “Dawn of the Dead.” Let that percolate for a while.
Omnes Omnibus
Having lost several IQ points speculating on a purely academic wank, I will now say I am again doe with this. The dude was born in the US. Period. End of story. People who cannot accept this go on the too dumb to reason with list.
Stefan
My favorite. Jimmy Johnson, former Dallas Cowboy coach, sat in front of Janis Joplin in high school homeroom.
My head just exploded a little bit.
You’re blowing my mind, man. YOU’RE BLOWING MY MIND!
Mnemosyne
@JCT:
It’s the intellectual version of “OMG what is Kim Kardashian wearing!!”
And I definitely don’t exempt myself — I rubberneck with the best of ’em.
Johannes
@Ghanima Atreides: Put me down for Bobo, Ghani. Also, too.
Amir_Khalid
Now that birtherism is big news again, why have we not heard from Big Birther herself, lawyer/dentist/real estate lady Orly Taitz?
Jay in Oregon
@Mnemosyne:
I agree that the law was most likely intended to cover U.S. citizens who are residents of another country, and not people who were on vacation or travelling abroad. There’s probably all sorts of case law regarding U.S. citizens who are temporarily outside of the U.S. and mothers who are underage/barely-of age in respect to whatever the current age limit is.
I just provided the original link because I thought it was bizarre that there was a point in time when the citizenship status of the father determined citizenship, but not the status of the mother.
SmallAxe
Someone called the progression up thread… Buchanan going full Affirmative Action leap from the Birther springboard on Hardball tonight. It never ends and their hand becomes even more clear.
maus
@Jeffro:
I assume we’ll have a grassroots/on-the-sly-higher-level funding of con man Larry Sinclair if they’re regurgitating all the old birther trash. Maybe convention-goers will get more desperate to find something to cling onto?
birthmarker
@SmallAxe: CNN by tomorrow. In that “It’s irresponsible not to speculate” kind of way.
birthmarker
You know what kills me? That people with no actual accomplishments themselves DARE, have the damn AUDACITY, to make a comment questioning Obama’s accomplishments. I mean people I know socially with HS diplomas. I am not knocking HS diplomas, there are many wonderful people with that level of education out there (I’m related to many, including both my parents), but to not recognize the difference between Harvard Law School and Podunk High.
soonergrunt
@birthmarker: You do understand that a big part of that is the idea that he got where he is because of unfair help to which he was not entitled, and therefore my own pathetic HS-diploma/junior college/piss-ant four-year degree doesn’t look as bad because I could’ve gone to Harvard if I’d had that kind of help…
birthmarker
@soonergrunt: Or, he knocked a (more) deserving (white) kid out of the slot. GRRRRR.
soonergrunt
@birthmarker: yup.
niknik
@handy: But have we, really??
niknik
@Omnes Omnibus: amk must be a Canadian. I know it isn’t nice to lump large groups of people together into a homogenous group, but I personally have never met a Canadian who wasn’t completely arrogant about being better than us Upper Mexicans. Eh?
Paul in KY
@Stefan: I saw an interview with Janis on the Dick Cavett show where she mentioned that she was getting ready to go to her 10th HS reunion & she was excited because she was a star now (I’m paraphrasing here) & she had put up with alot of teasing when she was in HS & she was looking forward to some payback.
I don’t know if she ever went or ODed before that. I can imagine Jimmy being someone who gave her shit back then.
opie jeanne
@Stefan: No, and a whole bunch of actors went to that school as well as to Hollywood High in a previous generation. I think it was somewhere a little less prominent, but somewhere in the ‘burbs of either NY or LA.
There was some (early number) draft pick a couple of years ago who was on the same HS baseball team as Jered Weaver (his brother Jeff is a bit older), a couple of years behind him, but what a team they must have had over the years. I think that was in the San Fernando Valley.