Conservative leader makes inadvertent admission, then retracts:
Minnesota state House Speaker Kurt Zellers (R), who is strongly pushing for passage of a voter ID law, has now backed away from comments he made in a radio appearance on Wednesday — when he said of the act of voting: “I think it’s a privilege, it’s not a right.”
“When you go to even a Burger King or a McDonald’s and use your debit card, they’ll ask you to see your ID,” Zellers said during a late-night interview, the Star Tribune reports. “Should we have to do that when we vote, something that is one of the most sacred — I think it’s a privilege, it’s not a right. Everybody doesn’t get it, because if you go to jail or if you commit some heinous crime your rights are taken away. This is a privilege.”
His personal opinion on voting is interesting, in terms of understanding the conservative soul, but here’s the text:
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.
The right of citizens of the United States to vote shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any State on account of sex.
“I think it’s a privilege not a right” and “This is a privilege” are extremely definitive statements to make in error, but I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he now knows voting is a right.
Now that he’s learned voting is a right, I’d like to ask this conservative leader why he compared voting to a private commercial transaction in a fast food restaurant. Because using a debit card isn’t a right, and driving a car isn’t a right, nor is purchasing alcohol or cashing a check or any of the other ridiculous examples conservatives and media use when they’re trying to change public opinion and perception and present voting as a privilege rather than a right. They’re still wrong. Voting is a right, so a comparison to commercial transactions or any random privilege is inaccurate. It’s a poor comparison. Yet, conservatives and media persist in disseminating these misleading comparisons.
In any event, A brand new voter suppression law in Minnesota won’t stop the accusations from conservatives that voters and others are breaking the law. I know this because Ohio passed a voter ID law well prior to the 2006 elections, and nothing changed. Conservatives and media promoted the voter fraud lie in Ohio all through the 2008 election, after passage of Ohio’s voter ID law.
Passage of the law made no difference at all. The ID provisions made no difference at all. The completely unsubstantiated accusations that voters were breaking the law continued.
Voter fraud is like birtherism. No matter how many documents the voter presents, no matter how many hoops the targeted voter jumps through, conservatives and media will continue to launch and promote this completely baseless attack, because repeating the accusation over and over and over is the whole point of the exercise. They’ll repeat it until it sticks to the voters who are the target of the attacks, voter ID law or no voter ID law.
Here’s an excellent primer on the politics of voter fraud accusations (pdf)
David Fud
Kay, your formatting ate the previous post on the front page.
Dave
Since when do you have to present an ID to use your debit card at a restaurant?
Jay C
@David Fud:
Yes, all the FP posts (and now this comment thread) are highlighted blue; like a blockquote.
Bob
When you are shrill, as in this post, no one will pay attention.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dave: There is one Chinese place in Madison that asks for ID about 75% of the time, but that’s about it.
Kay
@Jay C:
I don’t see it, so I don’t know how to fix it.
arguingwithsignposts
@Kay: Close your blockquote tag somewhere.
Omnes Omnibus
Using Safari here and I see no formatting issues.
soonergrunt
I rarely have to show ID to use a credit or debit card. The retailer or restaurant doesn’t care if MY use of the card is fraudulent, they just want to be paid, so they don’t get curious unless the transaction fails completely. And even then, they won’t bother unless a couple more cards fail.
This whole thing goes to the fact that conservatives have a defective moral center.
Nethead Jay
@David Fud: Yup, there’s a blockquote end tag missing somewhere in the code for this post. The whole frontpage looks loke a giant light blue block :)
EDIT: Firefox 4 on Windows
Kay
@Bob:
Transitioning to voter ID in Ohio was a huge pain in the ass, and chaos. People were shunted to second class ballots almost at random.
Still, in 2008, after all that, conservatives continued to claim people were breaking the law.
Millions of dollars, and hundreds of hours, and not one thing changed, in terms of these accusations.
Chris
Wingnut mindset in a nutshell: if it happens to them, it’s a right. If it happens to you or anyone else, it’s a privilege.
dmsilev
I’m trying to think when the last time was I had to use an ID along with a credit/debit card purchase.
Actually, now that I think about it, it has happened once. Several years ago, a shoe store wanted to see my ID when I was buying a pair of sneakers. I think that’s the only time.
Zifnab
Voter ID laws don’t have to be a loser for Democrats and minorities. Rather than fighting to preserve an archaic system of voter registration that already just serves to disenfranchise young people and the poor, Dems need to press this issue to get MORE people registered.
Push for amendments that get kids registered to vote while they’re still in high school. Set up automatic voter registration at state colleges. Make voter registration part of getting or renewing a driver’s license.
A particular favorite idea I saw was to make paying taxes an automatic registration. You pay taxes in April? Bam. You’re registered to vote in November.
Run lines like, “An unregistered voter is a stolen voter” and push the issue from the other angle. Voting reform doesn’t have to be a bad thing at all. We can make serious positive reform efforts and throw this whole Voter ID issue back in the GOP’s faces if we want to get clever.
Chris
@Dave:
Yeah, this confused me too. WTF part of the country is he from? I just used a debit card at McDonald’s this morning, nobody asked me for an ID. Unless I’m ordering alcohol, no restaurant or food store ever has done that before either.
Omnes Omnibus
@soonergrunt: I think Zellers made Kinsley gaffe. I know a number of right wingers who explicitly support property requirements for voting. Fundamentally, many of these people do not believe in universal suffrage (nearly universal suffering is a different matter).
Nethead Jay
@Nethead Jay: And now it’s corrected and Cole’s got a new post. Coincidence? I think not…;)
Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937
Purchasing alcohol is not a right? I’m moving to Canada.
Chris
@Zifnab:
Oh, I’d like that one.
Funny thing: there was a PJM thread a year or so ago on this same topic. A lot of people felt that Americans who didn’t live in the U.S. and dual citizens should both be disqualified from voting. Odd sentiment considering that both of them pay taxes, and that taxation without representation is pretty much the definition of being un-American.
Bob
@Kay: I was joking. It was a great post, very informative.
Kay
@arguingwithsignposts:
I just tried.
Zifnab
@Chris:
That’s kinda why I thought the Tax Return = Voter Registration thing would be such a winner. Nothing could embody “No taxation without representation” better.
patroclus
Zellers’ opinion on voting being a privilege and not a “right” is bracing and moves the debate on continued democratic representation onto more earnest ground.
Omnes Omnibus
@Zifnab: Non-citizens, including green card holders and those on work visas, pay taxes. I am not sure this works.
kay
@arguingwithsignposts:
And..John fixed it. Thanks, John.
Mike in NC
@Dave:
Naturally he pulled that lie out of a nearby orifice.
p.a.
You’ll probably be asked for id trying to cash a check, but a debit/credit card??!! I’ve been in establishments where you don’t even have to sign the receipt anymore after using a credit card.
Kentucky passed
vote suppressionvoter fraud legislation even though the best the ‘fraud is a problem’ side could do was cite evidence from the 1890’s.p.a.
@Omnes Omnibus:
My response to this winger bs is to then argue that the laws passed should then not apply to the excluded segment of the population.
Jay C
The GOP/rightwing obsession with “voter fraud” ought to be hooted down in public as the undemocratic BS it is: but unfortunately, it seems to occupy the political niche that the War On Drugs does in the criminal sphere. I.e. an “issue” that no one will seriously challenge for fear of being painted as “soft” on whatever “abuse” said campaigns are supposed (usually bogusly) to be fighting against.
Town
I have NEVER been asked to show ID when using a debit card (or credit card). What stores are he shopping at?
PurpleGirl
@p.a.: You’ll probably be asked for id trying to cash a check, but a debit/credit card??!! I’ve been in establishments where you don’t even have to sign the receipt anymore after using a credit card.
Yeah, I’ve found that if the bill is $25 or less, many stores aren’t asking for a credit slip to be signed anymore. I’ve never been asked for ID using a debit card — no matter the amount. The guy’s indulging in a favorite Republican past-time — lying.
Omnes Omnibus
@p.a.: But the peasantry must be ruled.
kay
@Bob:
I know you were joking. I’m a little insane on voting rights. I had to resign as a pollworker because I was alienating my fellow poll workers.
There’s a thin line between aggressive advocate and crazy person :)
Villago Delenda Est
The thing about “voter fraud” is that while ACORN turned in “questionable” voter registration forms, it was because they are required by law to do so. ACORN was never empowered to make the call on whether something was questionable or not. They in fact pointed out to the election offices that these are probably bogus registration attempts…but they are required to turn them in anyways and let the officials make that call.
This of course all lost on the cretinous dogshit that are “conservatives”.
existential fish
I worked in the Ohio Board of Elections during the 2010 election. One of the weird quirks about the Ohio law was that you needed an ID to vote at the polls… but not to vote early. (This is since voting early is absentee voting, and absentee voters do not have to send in IDs, but rather only have to have verified mailing addresses).
But basically you couldn’t explain that to conservatives who came in. They were appalled that someone could vote without showing an ID, even if no ID would be required if you mailed a ballot to people.
This is not to mention that voter registration fraud only affects clerks who have to send a piece of mail to Joe Blow at 111 Disney Lane. Unless someone has a verified address, they can’t vote. But that doesn’t stop the freak show.
Basically all it takes to perpetuate a myth is any hint of suspicion.
The conservative freak machine is basically powered by suburban legends at this point. (Not urban legends, since that’s likely to involve scary people who are not white)
Campionrules
@Villago Delenda Est:
You’re right on here. What ACORN was accused of doing was not actually voter’s fraud. It may have been registration fraud but Mickey Mouse wasn’t actually going to vote. And most of it was widely overblown anyways. ACORN did just plead guilty in Nevada to illegally paying for registrations – however, that’s still not voter fraud.
Hillary Rettig
Based on the GOP’s now overtly embracing feudalism, I propose the King of Id as the new GOP presidential candidate:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51YIv0EXDdL.jpg
Patrick
What immediately jumped into my head is – how is the right to vote different from the right to bear arms?
I know there is controversy about what the 2nd amendment actually means. Can we borrow the approach of 2nd amendment zealots in defending the right to vote?
aimai
@Zifnab:
The problem with that is almost the identical problem to Obama closing Gitmo. The Dems did press for massive voter registration and a national system of ID but it costs a ton of money and the Republicans refused to appropriate it. Of course the Dems should have called the Republicans bluff when they had both houses and passed the “Perfect Citizen National ID register for Voting Rights Act” which would have forced each state to issue each citizen a guaranteed voting rights card in time for first vote blah blah blah.” But when you think that motor voter and anything else that simultaneously registers and IDs people for voting have been blocked for years by the Republicans you realize that this would have been a very heavy lift indeed.
Basically everything that a sane society would do to register more people to vote, even if it guaranteed inviolability of the voting process, is seen as extremely threatening to the Republican party–because it is threatening. So any move the Dems make to protect the vote is definitionally seen as corrupt, by the Republicans.
aimai
Nethead Jay
Now, as to the actual topic, awesome post kay, as always when the subject is voting. And I think this is really revealing how many rightwingers view voting as not actually a fundamental right. Which should be abhorrent to any democracy-minded person but sadly isn’t.
I’m with @Zifnab: here, we really need to start a counter-offensive to revamp the antiquated and borderline anti-democratic (small c) strictures, laws and regulations governing voting in elections all over the U.S. of A.
It’s somewhat perplexing to me how in the world the current administration, the liberal left and the Democratic Party in general hasn’t realized the extreme necessity of such an overhaul if we’re ever to overcome the massive obstacles of the wingnut wurlitzer media and political machine. It needs to be a cornerstone of most any Democratic/liberal/progressive campaign,no matter the candidate or office.
kay
@existential fish:
I watched the legislative hearings on the Ohio law (I know, “for God’s sakes,why?” but they were completely fascinating) and the more vocal Democrats in the chamber implied that the law was written that way because more conservatives vote absentee.
That changed in 2008 (more liberals voted “early”) so now of course conservatives are seeking to tighten that rule up.
kay
@Nethead Jay:
It’s tough, because conservatives have dominated the debate with the language of privileges, not rights.
I don’t think that’s accidental. The comparisons to driving a car or writing a check demean the idea of a “right”.
This misuse of language to serve a political goal is really powerful. I do a lot of adoptions, and the long form birth certificate has now become a joke that’s used, as in “this is nice, but I’ll need the long form“. I heard it just today.
Nethead Jay
@kay: I wish people like you were in charge of the voting process, whether under the current regime or a future, hopefully better one.
Villago Delenda Est
@aimai:
The bottom line is that Republicans do not want more people to vote, because the odds are good that they won’t vote for Republicans.
Nethead Jay
@kay: Yes, that’s right and it’s obscene. And I believe you’re right that it’s not accidental at all. Just look at the writings of one of the ideologues on this, Hans Von Spakovsky. I just about threw up when he was named to the FEC.
I wish some benevolent person/group would fund some independent research and development of suggested legislation and regulations to get some actual chage happening instead of the current stalemate.
punkdavid
The opinion that voting is a privilige, not a right, is far more widespread than you would probably think. My roommate from college (whom I lived with for 3 years) casually opined to me one night when we were in law school that only property owners should be allowed to vote because only they had a real stake in the governance of the country. I knew he was a Republican, but this struck me as a really radical idea that anyone would (still) think this.
This was before tea parties and Fox News and all that shit. It was 1996 or 97, and it was in response to a coversation we were having about the Georgia gerrymandering case, which he was writing a paper about. He came from a comfortable background (his father was a doctor in Long Island), but far from an aristocratic one.
Anyway, I’d bet that there are a lot more conservatives who believe that voting is a privilege than will admit it out loud.
kay
@Nethead Jay:
He had a paper up on the Federalist Society website where he argues that voter ID has actually increased minority voting.
His evidence? The 2008 election of the first African-American candidate.
This stuff is accepted by people who should know better, and do know better. It’s an article of faith with conservatives, they believe it because they knee-jerk believe the worst of these particular voters.
jayackroyd
Off-topic. My Congresswoman, Maloney, just emailed asking for support for Kathy Hochul, who is running the special election in NY’s 26th district, the seat vacated by Chris Lee.
http://www.kathyhochul.com/
singfoom
It’s a right. I’m sure the mainstream media will have multiple voices on today to say how wrong that idiot was.
On the same topic, let’s get them to make national elections a national hoilday. Atlantic Article about holiday voting day from 98!
It’s such a simple way to increase voter turnout and show everyone in the nation that it’s important. Of course, that would mean people might actually have some power, hence that’s why no Senator or Rep has pushed a bill to do so.
I’m so glad I live in the Land of the Free.*
*Free to do whatever you want if a corporation.
bemused
If a Minnesotan calls the phone #’s of Zeller or his administrative assistant, you get a phone message to leave your name, # and you will supposed get your call returned. The email addy is to get on mailing list for updates.
One might think Zellers isn’t all that interested in voter opinions.
Mako
@Town:
Interesting. Where do you live? Ever tried to use a credit card in LA?
You know what’s cool? CostGo Amex cards. Got your picture right on the back.
My baser self wishes there was some test for voting. Because a lot of stupid uninformed shit gets voted for. But then I often wish there was a test for parenting.
Zifnab
@Omnes Omnibus:
The IRS would know if you are a citizen or not and register you appropriately. The idea is to take out that extra layer of independent voter registration. If you qualify as a voter and you just paid your taxes, why would you not be registered as a voter?
@aimai:
When Republicans take up the Voter ID banner, they start the lifting process for you. Then voter reform isn’t a “Do we / Don’t we” fight, but a “How do we?” fight. Legislation has to be worked out and compromised in committee. Amendments get called up for votes. Special interest groups get to add their little riders and clauses.
When legislation is on the table, it’s the perfect opportunity to work in healthy change. Just look at how the Republicans pushed all sorts of tax cuts during the Stimulus fight back in ’09. Look at how they wheedled a bunch of issues out of last month’s budget bill. Just getting a bill on the table can be a hurdle – ask the Democrats who were involved in the health care reform debate. But once its there, you can leverage the GOP’s desire to look like they are doing SOMETHING and win points in your party’s favor in exchange for general support for the legislation.
If the legislation flops, run against the GOP by calling them legislative failures and throwing their own urgency back in their faces. If the legislation passes, run against the GOP by highlighting the negative aspects of the legislation while applauding yourself for the benefits.
Hewer of Wood, Drawer of Water
@Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937: Come on up. Not only is purchasing alcohol a right, it is mandatory.
wiseguise
These laws will actually increase the amount of “fraud” stories. While actual voter fraud almost never happens, cases of “inappropriately accepted” ID’s will occasionally happen and be easily documented and sold to the public as evidence that this was a real problem all along.
Marty
@Mako: It’s highly possible that MC/Visa rules actually forbid the merchant from requesting an ID. The signature on the card is the only verification needed. That doesn’t mean that merchants obey the rules. They are also forbidden from providing a discount for cash vs credit card, but a lot of them do it anyway.
Mako
@Marty:
Yeah, I know. You don’t really have to show your receipt at Home Depot either.
Calouste
What Zellers really thinks is that voting is a right. For the privileged.
RalfW
Facts of course do not matter to conservatives, they’re just nuisances, but sometimes they exits anyway. A couple of groups in Minnesota surveyed every county attorney here after the last statewide election to see how many prosecutions there were for fraud, and whether voter ID would have made any difference.
The results were clear: the only fraud was the occasional felon on parole who voted when (s)he shouldn’t have. Showing a drivers license would make no difference in that case, as felon status is not a feature of that ID.
There were no prosecutions for impersonating an eligible voter, or for voting as a non-resident, etc. None. Nada.
The report is here: http://www.muusja.org/voting
The best part of the press conference when the report was released was the representative of the MN County Attorney’s Assn was railing against GOP-tied interest groups that were wasting plenty of precious taxpayer dollars chasing bogus fraud claims. Dude was clearly mad and pointing a clear finger (something politicians usually prefer to avoid doing, so you know he was steamed).
And, really, we Minnesotans have had two of the most closely scrutinized recounts in the nation the past two state-wide cycles. If there was fraud happening, it would have been brought up by the GOP candidates. But it wasn’t, because it’s a marketing tactic, not something that’s actually happening, as you so rightly help us see!
kay
@RalfW:
That is a great idea. Good for them. It would be great for voters to find out that voter fraud issues go to their local a county attorney.
No one knows that. They think it’s this mysterious federal process that’s managed by screeching bloviators.
Jim Pharo
Lincoln articulated the same phenomenon (either first inaugural speech or Cooper Union speech): it wasn’t enough that the Republicans leave the South and slavery alone; the Republicans had to somehow persuade the South that they meant to leave the South alone, and nothing was ever enough. The reason is the same as today: These demands that we prove something to their satisfaction over and over stems from their own guilty consciences. They know their anti-Obama campaign is baseless, and their insistent complaining is an effort to convince themselves.
Same thing with the War on Easter — guilty consciences trying to persuade themselves that their grievances really are real, and that they are not responsible for the messes they’ve made.
rikryah
unless you are WHITE voting is NOT A RIGHT.
ask all my ancestors.
pseudonymous in nc
Voter fraud: small reward, big risk
Voter suppression: big reward, small risk.
Which do you think the wingnuts prefer? And which do you think they moan about as a means of doing the other?
existential fish
@kay:
I can’t believe you watched the hearings. In lieu of the lifetime supply of tylenol you deserve, I’ll send my respect!