Dreaming is Free

ED has a couple of posts on former New Mexico governor Gary Johnson. He likes him because he would be an anti-war and anti-drug war president.

I share ED’s goals of ending all of our stupid wars, both foreign and domestic. But, if lightning struck, a young woman from Kansas clicked her ruby slippers, the ghost of Elizabeth Montgomery twitched her cheek, and Gary Johnson became president, I don’t see how he’d accomplish those goals. The drug war apparatus would still be funded, as would the military. There’s significant bi-partisan support in Congress for both the DoD and the DEA, enough to ensure that any veto by President Johnson would be overridden. As for the Johnson Department of Justice, even if it soft-pedaled the drug war prosecutions, he and his Attorney General are sworn to uphold the law, and repealing drug prohibition isn’t on anyone’s Congressional radar.

One of the big problems with the Obama presidency is the mismatch between expectations and his actual power. But at least Obama’s signature issue — healthcare reform — had long and abiding support within his own party. Johnson’s anti-war agenda would attract nothing like the depth of support that HCR got. I think it’s fine to speculate about some political outlier as president, but let’s get real about any president’s ability to move the bubble on issues with deeply rooted Congressional constituencies.

152 replies
  1. 1
    mattH says:

    One of the big problems with the Obama presidency is the mismatch between expectations and his actual power.

    Obama’s biggest mistake was ignoring the million or so people on his e-mail list that he had collected during the campaign. Those were the people he needed to help shape policy. I still don’t understand why he just pushed that resource aside.

  2. 2
    ornery curmudgeon says:

    If demoralization and enforcing a sense of helplessness is the point of this post, it succeeds. Can’t see any other point to it though.

  3. 3
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @mattH:
    Because that resource is standing around bitching about him not doing what they want and thinking his “make me do it” means incessant whining that he isn’t doing what they want?

    That’s my take on it. Want to make Obama do something? Make the politicians under him want the same thing. Stand around bitching all you want, but don’t expect much for results from it.

    Johnson would never get my vote because while I may agree with him on a few points I don’t care for his overall ‘vision’. That and IMO Peewee Herman stands a better chance of being elected president.

  4. 4
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    Does Gary Johnson believe in market-based economics?
    He is a creationist, so he probably also believes in free market fairies like EDK.

    He can’t win anyways. He has the the worst toupee in the western world.
    Americans will vote for creationists and free market fantasists.
    But never for a bad toupee.

  5. 5
    kdaug says:

    Think I heard a rumor once that a war, once started, was difficult to end.

    Or is that just me?

  6. 6
    mistermix says:

    @ornery curmudgeon: I think casting around for a President Jesus who will magically fix all our problems is ultimately more demoralizing, since it raises a false hope. Congress can’t be overridden, it needs to be fixed. Sorry if the harsh truth gets you down.

  7. 7
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    Stand by for Sully approvingly linking EDK’s Johnson hagiographies in 5….4…..3……2……..

  8. 8
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @mistermix: oh yes, because professed creationism and more freemarket fantasy economics are clearly irrelevant in presidential elections.
    Fortunately for America, really bad toupees are important.

  9. 9
    WereBear says:

    @mistermix: Not only that, it ignores the huge institutions that need to be changed to actually accomplish something.

    Way back, we decided we didn’t want a king. And I think that was a good idea.

  10. 10
    Maude says:

    @kdaug:
    No, no, no, no. If Obama wanted to, he would have ended the wars on 1/20/2009.

  11. 11
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @mistermix: One wonders if passionately embracing birtherism could make up for Johnson’s Male Pattern Baldness challenged hair appliance?
    Creationism is just not going to cut it this time around.

    The encroaching Wingularity demands passion and fervor, not beta-male balding white guys like daniels and johnson. now trump is a balding white guy.
    But at least he has passion.

  12. 12
    mattH says:

    Because that resource is standing around bitching about him not doing what they want and thinking his “make me do it” means incessant whining that he isn’t doing what they want?

    He stopped communicating with everyone on that list within the first month of his presidency, well before anyone started complaining about him being an ineffectual president. He threw a resource away that would have helped him drive public opinion and influence the very individuals he needed to enact his agenda. Your argument is shaped by things that happened well after his campaign apparatus was dismantled.

    Going to be out for the rest of the day, so don’t expect anything more for a while, but it’ll give you plenty of time to look it up.

  13. 13
    Hawes says:

    Stop being reasonable.

    President have magical pony powers!

  14. 14
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @mattH:

    Awww, Obama isn’t personally mind-melding with you any more? What a shame. Actually, I don’t need to look anything up since I get OFA updates and emails constantly. Keep yelling, I’m sure someone will hear you folks. Hopefully before everyone else gets tired of the whining.

    Pro-tip: The manic progressive left is shooting the wrong person but if they think a Republican will listen to them better then they should keep it up!

    It’s like they have given up on the legislative side of government and hope that Obama will be their king, solving all of their problems for them with little effort on their part.

    The teahadists may be crazy but at least they get in the faces of the people who matter.

  15. 15
    kdaug says:

    @Maude: But there’s so much money to be made!

  16. 16
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    Let me point out how the Mistermix Axiom of Universal Political Equivalence is opperating here.
    EDK endorses a crap candidate that cannot win. But Johnson is not a crap candidate because he cannot win, but because even if he won he couldn’t accomplish shit because of congress.
    Obama cannot accomplish shit because of congress, therefore Johnson=Obama and WE ARE ALL THE SAME.
    Fucking kumbayahmylord.
    The fallacy in mistermix’s logic is that OBAMA ACCOMPLISHED A LOT OF SHIT.
    /spots libertarian
    /points and laughs

  17. 17
    cat48 says:

    Unfortunately, Johnson is anti- about everything…Collective Bargaining; abortion maybe b/c they passed a Bill limiting it in New Mexico; also2, he wanted to privatize everything including Social Security and Medicare; prisons, etc.

    A true Teapublican!

  18. 18
    Culture of Truth says:

    The Poppies! The Popppies!!

  19. 19
    cat48 says:

    @mattH:

    I still get emails from him, Plouffe, & other organizers on what they’re working on & what action to take to help.

  20. 20
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @cat48: He is a professed creationist.
    Can full-frontal birtherism be far behind?
    I think currently he trying to frame himself as the only choice for nonbirther out there.
    He will be forced to succumb to the Wingularity if he wants to remain in the race, as it gradually engulfs the entire conservative movement.

  21. 21
    jo6pac says:

    So you’re saying give up on anything other than being serfs? Thanks but I would rather vote for someone that a lest spoke out and may be that’s bring change to peoples minds on subjects. Just saying. Voting Green next time to old to wait for more hopey changey thing.

  22. 22
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @MattR i get emails from him on both domestic and foreign policy.
    I have a lot of back and forth correspondence with him on OEF, my particular hot button.

  23. 23

    @mattH:

    Obama’s biggest mistake was ignoring the million or so people on his e-mail list that he had collected during the campaign. Those were the people he needed to help shape policy. I still don’t understand why he just pushed that resource aside.

    Define ‘ignore’. I get emails all the time, from national and state-level groups spun off from the 2010 campaign, letting me know what issue they are currently working on, what they’d like me to do about it, etc.

    What, exactly, are you expecting?

  24. 24
    bystander says:

    Okay. You seem to suggest that it’s unlikely that Johnson could get elected given that it would take a perfect confluence of lightening, ruby slippers and a ghost to accomplish it. Setting that aside, you imagine that, were Johnson to be elected, he couldn’t enact his preferred policies anyway since Congress holds the purse strings, we have the iron law of institutions in effect, and Johnson’s preferred policies wouldn’t attract the same level of support as HCR did. So you imagine POTUS to be weak in the face of Congress, current institutional arrangements, and public supporters/advocates. Then, tell me again why it matters whether we have a Republican vs a Democrat for President. If what you argue is true, then why worry about getting Obama reelected?

  25. 25
    policomic says:

    @jo6pac: “Voting Green next time…”

    Why not just stay home and masturbate? Same effect on the real world, same feeling of satisfaction for you, and you save a trip to the polls.

  26. 26
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @jo6pac: Obama passed FinReg and HCR against monstrous opposition.
    You go bare your throat for the jackboot.
    That is what EDK and Mistermix want you to do. Presidents are all the same.
    give up now, its hopeless.

  27. 27

    @ornery curmudgeon:

    If demoralization and enforcing a sense of helplessness is the point of this post, it succeeds. Can’t see any other point to it though.

    If you read a post saying “These things aren’t going to be solved overnight, or with one election” as demoralizing then yeah, you should probably just go have a nice nap or something. I mean, what more can you possibly do than vote once every four years?

  28. 28
    Citizen_X says:

    @bystander:

    tell me again why it matters whether we have a Republican vs a Democrat for President.

    Jeebus. Reason #1 of 10,000: Supreme Court nominations.

    Fer fuck’s sake, firebaggers, H G-W is making FAR MORE SENSE THAN YOU.

  29. 29
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @bystander: EDK and mistermix are just pushing the Kumbayah Hypothesis. why cant we get along? we are all the same anyways.
    surrender naow, dorothy, its hopeless.

  30. 30
    mistermix says:

    @bystander: A Democratic president gets some of the Democratic agenda passed when he’s in power. A Johnson gets nothing done because he has no allies in Congress. Obama got HCR done because he and his allies in Congress wanted it done.

  31. 31
    cat48 says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    Actually, this is the oddest thing I’ve read about Johnson so he very well could go Birther….wouldn’t surprise me a bit:

    ThinkProgress spoke with Johnson at a stop in West Palm Beach, FL. During a question about the Fair Labor Standards Act, Johnson abruptly shifted gears and declared that because “we elected a black president,” this shows that “we are colorblind” and “we’re not a discriminate (sic) nation”:

  32. 32
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @mistermix: but you didnt say that.
    you said it was hopeless.

    let’s get real about any president’s ability to move the bubble on issues with deeply rooted Congressional constituencies.

  33. 33

    @mattH:

    Going to be out for the rest of the day, so don’t expect anything more for a while, but it’ll give you plenty of time to look it up.

    I’m starting to think maybe mattH was just dropped from all the mailing lists… can’t imagine why such a valuable resource would have been thrown away like that.

  34. 34
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Anton Sirius: lawl. ;)

  35. 35
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @jo6pac:

    Too old, can’t wait for change so you are voting Green?

    Now that’s funny!

  36. 36

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    She’s my cherry pie
    Cool drink of water such a sweet surprise
    Tastes so good make a grown man cry
    Sweet cherry pie

  37. 37
    Comrade DougJ says:

    I think it’s a waste of time to get excited about GaJo and that ED shouldn’t waste his breath on it….however, I am sympathetic to Republicans like young Conor get excited about him.

  38. 38
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    So this guy’s good on a couple of issues, but actually a typical Republican asshole on about 95% of the issues, including stuff that EDK et al allegedly believe center-left solutions to, so he’s obviously worth supporting? What? By now it is frankly either naive or actively ratfucking to see a (R) after someone’s name and consider voting for them if you give a shit about America’s future.

  39. 39
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @cat48:

    Johnson abruptly shifted gears and declared that because “we elected a black president,” this shows that “we are colorblind” and “we’re not a discriminate (sic) nation”:

    yeah, I think he is trying to frame himself as the only realistic alternative to birther candidates. He is prolly just a stealth birther from your link.
    Only gormless n00bs like EDK and Sully will be fooled.

  40. 40
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Comrade DougJ: dude, EDK IS Young Conor as far as I can tell. Membah, I’ve known them both longer than you. Libertarians/liberal-tarians/classic liberals/crypto-conservatives and fullfrontal conservatives are ALL republicans.
    ;)
    /points and laffs at the ideologically naked

  41. 41
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @ Comrade DougJ
    Do you suppose Conor sees starbursts? I think he should start a mass debate on GaJo.

  42. 42
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @”Serious” Superluminar
    that would be actively ratfucking for 100, Alex.

    Do you suppose Conor sees starbursts?

    EDK and Conor are both starbursting…its just a matter a time before Sully joins them.
    ;)

  43. 43
    Murc says:

    @bystander:

    It’s a bit more complex than that, bystander.

    POTUS is weak in the face of Congress… in areas which are already established in law, and in areas in which the Congress is willing, EAGER even, to exercise its power.

    That’s an important point that doesn’t get made often enough, and I thank mistermix for bringing it up. The Imperial Presidency is only really Imperial in those areas in which Congress is prepared to abdicate its authority. When there’s an issue with a hugely strong constituency within the Congress, you will find that it is there that Presidential power is at its weakest. Unconditional support for Israel is an example of this; the War on Drugs is another.

    As for why it matters if a Democrat or Republican is President… seriously? Okay, I’ll play that game. In a theoretical McCain Presidency, at this point in time we would have two more Sam Alitos on the Supreme Court and would probably be at war with Iran. We’d have no health care reform AT ALL, not even the half a loaf we got, would be coddling Wall Street even more than we already are.

    It works both ways. Just because Presidential power is at its lowest ebb in areas in which the Congress chooses to throw its weight around doesn’t mean the President is without power at all.

  44. 44
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Comrade DougJ: trying to gently pull EDK back from the ledge, Master Troll?
    Too late. You guyz losin’ control of the narrative again.
    EDK already went there.
    early starbursts!

  45. 45
    Cat Lady says:

    @mattH:

    What are you fucking talking about? I got 2 or 3 emails from OFA and mybarackobama.com every day and did for months, still do, and also telephone calls. What do you expect – BHO sitting in your living room asking you what color you’d like your ponies to be? Grow the fuck up. You’re one of the reasons why we can’t have nice things.

  46. 46
    bystander says:

    @Citizen_X: Doesn’t congress have to confirm SCOTUS appointments? Do you imagine the Congress in 2012 to be more to the right than it is now?

    @mistermix: So, were Johnson to get the GOP nomination, you assume he’d have no allies in Congress?

  47. 47
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    I think it’s time for your Thorazine booster shot. :)

  48. 48
    Culture of Truth says:

    If Gary Johnson were elected President of the United States, then presumably he would have some kind of mandate for his policies. Coincidentally, there’s a Twilight Zone marathon on.

  49. 49
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: /points at EDK fanboi and laffs
    YOU NAKED!

  50. 50
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @cat48: we should develp a birther taxonomy. Ellis already came up with with “Reform Birtherism” from a Dave Weigel post. I think “Stealth Birtherism” is a good description of GaJo.
    We can give DougJ props for Mainstream Birtherism or Conventional Birtherism.
    Fundamentalist Birtherism?
    Post-Modern Birtherism? Jeff Goldstein bait. ;)
    Pure Birtherism?
    Objectivist Birtherism?

  51. 51
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @Hermione
    I completely agree about Conor (and Weigel and others), but I think EDK’s better than that. I hope you’re wrong, but I have to say that evidence here/Forbes/LoOG seems to be confirming your hypothesis. We’ll see…

  52. 52
    Alex S. says:

    Well, I can respect his stance because he is a true libertarian, not a hypocrite like the anti-choice Paulites. His economic views are damaging and unrealistic, of course (in my opinion). And his anti-war stance goes too far for me, actually.

  53. 53
    Murc says:

    @bystander:

    Doesn’t congress have to confirm SCOTUS appointments?

    Yes, it does. And there’s enough wiggle room in Congress to get either an Alito or a Sotomayor (or, in fact, likely someone to the left of Sotomayor) confirmed, depending on who the President is. There isn’t a strong political constituency within Congress for constant knock-down drag-outs over SC nominees, and keeping an SC vacancy open for years at a time while you try to run out the election clock isn’t politically viable there the way it is for lesser judgeships.

    Again, just because the President doesn’t have a LOT of power in some specific areas in which Congress is prepared to throw its weight around does not mean he has NO power. Shouldn’t be a difficult concept.

  54. 54
    HRA says:

    What I wanted to say has been said in some of these comments and with a better hand in writing them.
    I do begin to wonder at the “disappointed ones” ever have been for President Obama. Frankly, their churlishness and wailing do remind me of those who were totally against him in the primary and the election.
    Very good post, mistermix.
    I would add it seems there is a lot of flailing around to find a Republican candidate who does no embrace the crazy and it looks to be a lost cause unless they can get them permanently off center stage.

  55. 55
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @”Serious” Superluminar
    /sigh
    Do you remember why I was so upset about EDK refusing to recant the fetus=slave meme? Do you know why? Because he was mainstreaming it, legitimizing it. He never did recant it, he just said, its wrong but completely understandable. This is the exact same thing he is doing with Kowal’s front page anti-islamic bigotry.
    And the exact same thing the “sane” conservatives are doing with birtherism.

    He hasn’t changed that I can see. He is a still a garden variety socially liberal fiscally conservative libertarian.

  56. 56
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Alex S.:

    I can respect his stance because he is a true libertarian

    EDK swears he is not a libertarian.
    I agree with you. EDK is a true libertarian.
    /points and laffs

  57. 57
    Citizen_X says:

    @bystander: Yes and no to your questions, respectively. Senate votes on confirming Kagan and Sotomayor were not 100% along party lines–in each case, a (necessary) handful of Republicans voted to confirm. So it’s less nakedly partisan than voting on laws.

    Edit: Dibs to Murc, who got there first.

  58. 58
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Alex S.: Larison has the same anti-war stance. And Larison is a white supremacist.

  59. 59
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    For one thing, I am no EDK “fanboi” nor have I ever been.

    The other? Take the shot, you really need it.

  60. 60
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: I dont to calm down, you need to wake up.

    “Equo ne credite, Teucri. Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.”
    “Do not trust the horse, Trojans Juicers! Whatever it is, I fear the Greeks Glibertarians, even bringing gifts.”

  61. 61
    Svensker says:

    @bystander:

    So you imagine POTUS to be weak in the face of Congress, current institutional arrangements, and public supporters/advocates. Then, tell me again why it matters whether we have a Republican vs a Democrat for President. If what you argue is true, then why worry about getting Obama reelected?

    That’s the fly I imagined struggling mightily in the ointment.

  62. 62
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    I…well, I like EDK, but really, he’s like Sully in that he’s trying to find his mythical magical moderate Tory/Republican. Johnson would be absolutely horrendous on most issues, and TBQH right now the drug war and atoning for Iraq are pretty far down on my list.

    I mean, I understand that y’all are just trying to be generous and trying to find examples of the other team that are reasonably sane (like the Larison man crush-why don’ you have Dennis G interview him on the ACW?).

    I’ll go so far as to say that I expected more form EDK than wishing for his unicorn Republican nominee.

  63. 63
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: do you understand how the GOP could win in 2012?
    Not with birtherism.
    Only 1/3 of the electorate are birthers. 75% of independents are against birtherism.
    But 70% of Americans voted against construction of the “terror mosque”.
    A few more libertarians like EDK mainstreaming islamophobia (that is wrong, but i UNDERSTAND why you believe that) and the JAFI vote could be a gamechanger. Couple that with Obama as a seekrut muslim and you have a goodsized voting block.

  64. 64
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay: what is far more dangerous about EDK is that he is still a freemarketeer.

  65. 65
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @Hermione
    *le sigh* look, the problem with your fetus=slave stuff wasn’t that it was inaccurate, it’s that you derailed approximately 15000 threads by mentioning it. The following is going to sound patronising but so be it: you are a very intelligent induvidual with a lot to add to debates here and elsewhere, and I for one don’t mind your contributions. Problem is, you have to keep hammering the same point multiple times in each thread which quite apart from being just plain rude to the FPer and commenters making other points is not in your own interests as it doesn’t win you any allies for what many of us would otherwise consider reasonable points. /your dad.

    The Kowal post(s): well I’m glad they pushed back against them over there, but they should never have published that shit in the first place, it was disgusting. By all means hate on them and shame them for it.

  66. 66
    Murc says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    To be fair, EDK is not nearly as bad about it as Sullivan. You sometimes get the impression that Sullivan genuinely wishes he had been born twenty years earlier so that he could have had ACTUAL radical leftists to fight against, instead of in these confusing modern times when all the sane conservatives seem to be either in graves or members of the Democratic Party. EDK has yet to cross that particular Rubicon.

  67. 67
    lol says:

    @Anton Sirius:

    Most likely he unsubscribed in a fit of pique when Obama had the audacity to email him to call his Congressperson and to call other people to call his Congressperson in support of that health care reform bill. That’s what all the big-name bloggers appeared to do.

    Then having unsubscribed, they get to complain that they’re not being asked to do anything anymore.

  68. 68
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @Amanda; Hermione

    I don’t even think EDK’s a freemarketeer deep down, what he is is that rare beast in politics, a Romantic. There’s various posts he’s made in the past about the influence of Tolkein and how he wishes politics/society was more like the Shire etc. I think he realises this is not um..sensible WRT an adult understanding of how the world world works, but is struggling to let it go.

  69. 69
    sal says:

    I don’t know anything about Gary Johnson, but dismissing him as unelectable and unable to change the status quo if elected misses the point. These ‘quixotic’ candidates, issues, etc., would help to move the Overton Window left. Think back to the ’70s and even Reagan ’80s. The current crop of Republicans would have been seen as the crazed fringe they are by most conservatives then. St. Ron himself would be vilified by Rush, Fox,WaPo and the rest of the right wing blowhard machine – tax increases! the socialist!
    If you want more progressive policies and politicians, you’ll have to get the pendulum swinging back leftwards. It’s currently so far to the right that yes, there will likely be a lot of lack of direct success for a while. But you have to get the momentum going first.

  70. 70
    bystander says:

    Sorry, dog chores…

    @Murc:
    re:

    The Imperial Presidency is only really Imperial in those areas in which Congress is prepared to abdicate its authority. ff

    Yes, okay. But, this feels like you’re making the argument that Congress matters. I don’t, from this, get the sense that POTUS matters.

    re: play that game
    Isn’t that the basis for the lesser of two evils argument that is so often promoted?

    re: It works both ways. ff
    Following that thought through prompts a different question. There was a fair amount of effort made to push Obama on marijuana (can’t recall now whether if the issue was legalization or sentencing). If POTUS is not powerless, and wants to advocate for legalization, has public advocacy support, and a “mandate” from his/her party by gaining the nomination, might not s/he be able to realize his/her preferred policy?

  71. 71
    RinaX says:

    The teahadists may be crazy but at least they get in the faces of the people who matter.

    What, you expect blogging warriors to shut down their computers and actually go outside and grind it out, particularly if it doesn’t lead to any type of media coverage? The hell you say!

    And I, too, get at least three or four emails from SOMEONE every day thanks to being on the OFA list, at the national, state, and local level. When you unsubscribe because you’re mad that an issue didn’t go your way in Congress, that tends to mean that you stop getting that stuff, and I suspect that’s what mattH did. That, or, got dropped as has been speculated.

  72. 72
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    “Serious” Superluminar –

    I don’t even think EDK’s a freemarketeer deep down

    Lie. that is the one belief he won’t shapeshift on.
    Like I SAID libertarianism and market-based economics are a pile of crap.
    All libertarians are fools and liars. It is a worthless and invalid political philosophy.

    it’s that you derailed approximately 15000 threads by mentioning it.

    sry.
    but that was because EDK would never engage on it. juicers sprang to defend him, and then he ran away or Cole swung the banstick.

    By all means hate on them and shame them for it.

    Thank you for your permission.
    I shall.

  73. 73
    PIGL says:

    The war on drugs is but one example of the paralysis that characterises the American political system. Stupid, viscious and ineffective policies can not be changed because they just can’t, that’s why.

    Meanwhile the rest of the world is defecting, including your former client states in Latin America. If only Canada were among them.

    And every step back that increasingly powerful other nations take from American “leadership” weakens your position in hte world to your political, economic and military disadvantage. This is partly why I have sometimes claimed that the Republican Party is a mortal threat to your national security. But in the case of bi-partisan obsessions such as drugs and Israel, I’m not quite sure who or what is to blame.

  74. 74

    24 of 72 posts by the comment-stalker.

  75. 75
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Libertarians are fucking hilarious.

  76. 76
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Yeah, but most of them were advancing a sensible argument this time, instead of just repeating the same one.

  77. 77
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    Stupid, viscious and ineffective policies can not be changed because they just can’t, that’s why.

    well let’s all fucking give up then why don’t we? You can borrow my razor after I’ve slashed my wrists, it’s ok.

  78. 78

    @PIGL:

    That paralysis is a feature, not a bug. It’s not that things can’t be changed overnight just because – the system was designed that way.

  79. 79
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    “Serious” Superluminar

    well I’m glad they pushed back against them over there

    really? like Elia did?
    Elia fucking endorses islamophobia and christian triumphalism.

    I think multiculturalism is fine until it bleeds into moral relativism; and yes I’m willing to admit to being a western chauvinist in so far as that I believe any cultural custom that is undergirded by superstition and misogyny can go suck a lemon.

    This shit is super pervasive. How can anyone POSSIBLY be a human rights scholar and a western culture chauvinist at the same time?
    AMG, that assclown makes my brain hurt.

  80. 80
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Anton Sirius: yup. Like George Washington said, the Senate is the saucer that cools the hot tea of the House.
    The founders feared extremism and demagogues. Extreme swings are damped.

  81. 81
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: instead of counting comments why don’t you push back on substance?

  82. 82
    BOSS BITCH says:

    @lol:

    Most likely he unsubscribed in a fit of pique when Obama had the audacity to email him to call his Congressperson and to call other people to call his Congressperson in support of that health care reform bill. That’s what all the big-name bloggers appeared to do.

    Then having unsubscribed, they get to complain that they’re not being asked to do anything anymore.

    THIS. THIS. THIS. This is exactly what they do.

  83. 83
    gwangung says:

    @bystander: Your making a leap of logic here by thinking a “mandate” extends trough all possible issues.

    Need to elect a block of Congresscritters who believe e same way AND show those critters they won’t be punished for voting that way.

  84. 84
    gwangung says:

    Also, note that on issues like legalization, the support does not fall along party or even class lines. Folks who live in areas that suffer directly from drug related crime can be very absolute against decriminalization.

  85. 85
    BOSS BITCH says:

    I read about Gary Johnson on Think Progress and no liberal or progressive should be considering this guy for president.

  86. 86
    ornery curmudgeon says:

    @mistermix: I think casting around for a President Jesus who will magically fix all our problems is ultimately more demoralizing, since it raises a false hope.

    Yeah it probably would be … uh, what are you talking about?

    You don’t know my thinking, binary man: just because I think you’ve written a worthless and defeatist post doesn’t mean I’m searching for a magical pony.

  87. 87
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @Hermione

    I’m willing to admit to being a western chauvinist in so far as that I believe any cultural custom that is undergirded by superstition and misogyny can go suck a lemon.

    Well sry, but I completely agree with this, and am somewhat surprised you don’t.

  88. 88
    Murc says:

    @bystander:

    If POTUS is not powerless, and wants to advocate for legalization, has public advocacy support, and a “mandate” from his/her party by gaining the nomination, might not s/he be able to realize his/her preferred policy?

    They might, yeah. Just so I’m clear, you’re proposing a hypothetical in which a President had made legalization and a winding down of the drug war a major platform plank in both their nomination fight, and then again in an election they subsequently won?

    That’s DEEPLY unlikely, but in that highly theoretical scenario, sure, said President might have the personal oomph and the legislative support to get what would no doubt be a massive bill through Congress. However, in the hypothetical you propose, the drug war constituency within Congress would already have been weakened significantly; you’d have had prominent Senators and Congresspeople coming out and endorsing the platform during the campaign, that sort of thing. And it would be a bruising, GRUELING fight that said President would be as likely to lose as to win.

    If, on the other hand, said President is in favor of legalization but Congress as a whole is still in full on ‘fuck you, we loves us some drug war’ then even if they decided to make legalization a major agenda item, they would almost certainly lose and lose HARD. They’d have to resort to poking around the margins.

  89. 89
    Allan says:

    Hello, is this thing on?

  90. 90
    Allan says:

    Oh phew, I’m not blocked from commenting, it’s just impermissible to refer to the Weaselly one by her “real” name.

    As I was attempting to say before, someone must have pushed me through an Overton Window, but I stand with the Weasel.

    EDK was on the Twitter machine last night, puling about how Obama wasn’t the fierce anti-warrior he pretended to be during his campaign, and how it’s Johnson’s principled anti-war stance that’s got EDK fapping his johnson for Johnson.

    In other words, either EDK is ignorant of what Obama’s positions have always been with regard to war, or he’s lying about them in order to pretend disappointment with him as an excuse to fellate a Great White Republican Hope.

    Sully Redux.

  91. 91
    bystander says:

    @gwangung:
    Okay. What I’m sensing is a contingent argument. And, the argument feels like, POTUS matters depending on who is in Congress. So, the larger (?) point is it matters who POTUS only if s/he has a like-minded Congress. Returning to mistermix’s premise; Johnson couldn’t get his policies enacted anyway because of Congress, institutional arrangements, and the availability of advocates. And, returning to my initial question, I posit that, if that’s true, then how much difference it makes whether we have a Democrat or Republican in the White House depends on the composition of Congress. [I’ll concede the nominations to SCOTUS. And, I’d add that I voted against McCain because of Iran / though I hadn’t anticipated Libya.]

    side note: PUPPY vs YPPUP via boingboing.

  92. 92
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @”Serious” Superluminar

    Well sry, but I completely agree with this, and am somewhat surprised you don’t.

    Of course you do.
    You could never possibly imagine a system of human rights based on something other than lilywhite jesushumper New Protestant xianity.
    Like western culture isnt undergirded by superstition and misogyny.
    wallah, and our attempts to impose western culture on islamic nations have resulted in simply horrific disasters. 750000 dead muslim civilians and 4.5 million orphans in Iraq alone.
    WESTERN CULTURE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS.

  93. 93
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Allan: That is one thing i really despise about EDK. his sneaky Obama hatred.
    He doesn’t let the masque slip often, but you sure nailed him this time.
    EDK is just like Sully…the occasional attaboy for some action that can be wistfully interpreted as crypto conservative, but pure concern trolling the rest of time.
    Nice catch Allan.

  94. 94
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @”Serious” Superluminar
    AMG this is a post about a FUCKING CREATIONIST running for president and you have the damned gall to pen1s measure superstition content?

  95. 95
    FlipYrWhig says:

    We already have Gary Johnson. His name is Ron Paul. Fuck them both.

  96. 96
    "Serious" Superluminar says:

    @Hermione
    ok, I simply don’t have it in me to respond to that with much more than WTF?!
    I am an atheist, and so that Judeo-Xtian shtick has little to do with my beliefs. I am not in favour of imposing another culture on others, even if i disagree with some of the precepts of the culture in question. However, human rights are universal and I will not compromise on those, and like I said, it is surprising that an apparently strong-willed person such as yourself would… Anyhow, I have other commitments for the next few hours, but feel free to debate later…

  97. 97
    FlipYrWhig says:

    I think it’s fine to speculate about some political outlier as president, but let’s get real about any president’s ability to move the bubble on issues with deeply rooted Congressional constituencies.

    No, no, you don’t understand. Gary Johnson would REALLY want to do something about these issues. Really wanting to do it, really really if necessary, is how it happens. You can tell when politicians don’t really want to do things when those things don’t happen.

  98. 98
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Vaguely libertarian types supporting Gary Johnson is really not that different from lefties supporting Kucinich in a primary. They get to vote for someone who more closely hews to their ideological preference. They may move the debate in their direction a bit. Then the mainstream candidate wins the nomination, and they have to decide whether or not to support him/her and, if so, how much.

  99. 99
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    human rights are universal

    not christian human rights, not muslim human rights, not “western” human rights, not secular human rights, not atheist human rights.
    western culture is only quasi-secular.

    One human right is freedom of faith.
    and you fucking crusaders with your endles pen1s measuring really piss me off.

  100. 100
    bystander says:

    @Murc: I see that. However, doesn’t drug war constituency within Congress,… bruising, GRUELING fight … as likely to lose as to win and … resort to poking around the margins pretty much parallel facing the health care insurance constituency, the grueling fight to bring the Blue Dogs on board, the possibility of losing, and the resulting compromises pretty much parallel what Obama had to face wrt to HCR?

  101. 101
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    Yeah, obsessive zealots are just the worst, aren’t they matoko?

    /”laffs”

  102. 102
    Murc says:

    @bystander:

    how much difference it makes whether we have a Democrat or Republican in the White House depends on the composition of Congress.

    That’s much, much closer to reality than saying that it doesn’t matter if a Democrat or a Republican is in the White House.

    In a strictly, STRICTLY theoretical sense, a President could wind up having nearly no power if a supermajority of both houses really took it into their heads to micromanage him. They could write ultra-specific appropriations bills and do all kinds of stuff to basically reduce the office to an appendage. In that sense, yeah, the political affiliation of said President wouldn’t matter.

    But the odds of that actually happening in the real world are slim.

    I would advise you to take a couple steps back and look at the system as a whole, rather than just envisioning the Presidency at the center of the political universe with other things rotating around it. It would be most accurate, I think, to say ‘what legislative items and the agendas they embody become law is dependent upon BOTH who occupies the Presidency AND the political and ideological makeup of Congress.’

    doesn’t drug war constituency within Congress,… bruising, GRUELING fight … as likely to lose as to win and … resort to poking around the margins pretty much parallel facing the health care insurance constituency, the grueling fight to bring the Blue Dogs on board, the possibility of losing, and the resulting compromises pretty much parallel what Obama had to face wrt to HCR?

    To an extent. Obama did run on HCR, after all. And by ‘running on’ I mean ‘made it the central plank of his platform, with massive support from his political allies in his own party.’

    When you do that and then win, it’s a bit different than trying to do the same thing from a standing start.

  103. 103
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: if EDK is vaguely libertarian then im vaguely opposed to fucking hipster music.
    He is a garden variety libertarian. Market-based economics and “socially liberal”.
    They are all. just. alike.

  104. 104
    gn says:

    If this Republitarian troll Gary Johnson continues to succeed in winning away the loud, obnoxious poutrage crew like gg (see ya!) so that they can no longer pretend to be supportive of President Obama’s reelection, I can’t thank him enough. I can’t wait to see the back of this bs libertarian purity one-issue frothing at the mouth element as they ride this troll right on back out of the progressive movement. Hasta la bye-bye. Sayonara edk!

  105. 105
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Bob Loblaw: push back on substance….if you can.
    JAFI.

  106. 106
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @gn:

    Sayonara edk!

    An anime tradition is that one only says sayonara when one is about to kill the adversary. Den Beste had a post about that, he said sayonara means you will never see them again.
    One can only hope.

  107. 107
    TomG says:

    Can someone provide a video link or definite evidence that Johnson is a creationist? I have read interviews where he says that he believes in God but doesn’t attend church and won’t be bringing God up in speeches.
    I really like most of what I have read about his policies (yes, I’m a libertarian), but I’m also an atheist who supports science and skepticism. If he is clearly a creationist, it would definitely give me pause on supporting him.

  108. 108
    gn says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: That’s an interesting fact which I didn’t know; thank you! I meant it more as a very happy, thrilled, enthusiastic wave goodbye because I couldn’t be happier to be parting political company. I hope that they have a great time with their new Republitarian while the rest of us enjoy the irony of purity puritans insisting that compromises and coalitions are filthy prostitutionwhores while they are literally allied with the right wing.

    I love it. This is a terrific development. I will never entertain these folks ranting about principle again.

  109. 109
    Stillwater says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Really wanting to do it, really really if necessary, is how it happens.

    It is sorta depressingly amusing how people continue to think that a President (or any single individual politician, ftm) can just change huge institutional structures simply by wanting things to be different. Eg: trying a enact a campaign promise to end the war on drugs would be first laughed at then argued against then finally leveraged against. Building the requisite coalition to make even limited changes (given Congress’s apathy or entrenchment re: the issue) would take a huge effort, prolly beyond the limits of what is feasible or even worth the President’s effort from a political capital pov.

    Shorter: Presidential Ponies!!

    ETA: Murc said it better!

  110. 110
    gn says:

    Similar article about Glenn Greenwald’s potential support of Johnson: http://blog.reidreport.com/201.....y-dreamin/

    Adios gg!

  111. 111
    Malron says:

    I find it fascinating that so-called progressives are giving even the slightest consideration to a Gary Johnson presidency because Glen Greenwald – himself a libertarian and NOT the progressive hero everyone wants to claim he is – has the hots for him. Have you guys even bothered to look at Johnson’s fucking anti-progressive history?

  112. 112
    bystander says:

    @Murc:

    I would advise you to take a couple steps back and look at the system as a whole, rather than just envisioning the Presidency at the center of the political universe with other things rotating around it.

    I don’t believe I’ve advanced that view. Way back here I’ve been asking a different question altogether. And, what I think it’s come to is, it depends. It’s a contingent function.

  113. 113
    gn says:

    @Malron: the guy wants to turn ss, medicare, and medicaid into grant programs yet he’s being hugged and kissed by people who hiss at NObama for even mentioning those programs in the same sentence as reform. He is a classic right wing “get your hands out my pockets you betta not tax me” Republican with a few sane stances. Of course he adored by the double standard wielding poutrage crew. Hacks all.

  114. 114
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @TomG: He is pro-voucher and a staunch lutheran. like Huffpo says.

    “Please tell me how stripping public schools of money via vouchers is going to help public schools? If you look at those that are advocating vouchers they’re after the ability to teach creationis m as a science in the schools and they want to wreck the teacher’s union. Amazing that they managed a way to do both with taxpayer money”

    No wonder EDK and Greenwald luff him. He is a libertarian and that means freemarket fucktard.
    /points at Greenwald and laughs
    YOU NAKED. And your economic nads are microscopic.
    All this human rights stuff is radar chaff.
    gg, EDK, and the rest of the libertarians just want a fresh chance for their beloved marketbased solutions to assrape American working families again.

  115. 115
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Malron: Who aside from EDK and GG are giving consideration to Johnson?

  116. 116
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: How does Lutheran = creationist?

  117. 117
    wmd says:

    I view a Republican primary vote for Johnson as having some long term strategic value for drug war reform and rolling back the military industrial complex. It provides poll data from an actual election that people are willing to vote on these issues. Which provides opportunities for more potential candidates to take on similar positions.

    In the event that the ruby slippers and nose-twitching took place, well I’d likely vote for Obama in the general, plus the huge number of anti-war and anti drug war candidates down ticket that the nose twitching inspired to run. Johnson would lose my vote in the general due to his genuine fiscal hawkish positions.

  118. 118
    gn says:

    New rule: purity puritans who are constantly dialed up with the rhetoric and keep their followers in a high state of emotion with the constant I’m betraaaaaaaaaaaaayed screaming=road to the right wing. Guaranteed. All about enabling Republicans in one way or another. Depress, deflate, defeat. Fauxgressives need to be much more selective media consumers.

  119. 119
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @gn: and i dont think its goodbye quite yet…..as long as Cole, mistermix and DougJ keep trying to cram more EDK goodness down the juicers throats.
    Why link the LoOG?
    Jaysus, the LoOG is just Hotair with college degrees.

  120. 120
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: cat48 said he was. bitch at him.
    i got other stuff to do than searchfu you credulous n00b. why dont YOU research it?
    i personally think libertarian and free market fucktard are plenty reasons not to vote for him.

  121. 121
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: sully will.
    just watch.

  122. 122
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: Not so fast. You stated he was a creationist. When asked about support for that statement you responded that Johnson was a Lutheran. From this, it appears that you are suggesting that Lutheranism makes one a creationist. If you want to make statements like that, it is on you to offer support for them. This is especially true when the thesis you offer, Lutheran=Creationist is contrary to the generally understood notion that the mainline Protestant churches, of which the Lutheran Church is one, recognize and accept the scientific validity of evolution. But, if you want to make unsupported allegations and then get snippy with people when they call you on it, go right ahead.

  123. 123
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: Sully is a progressive, even a soi-disant progressive? Fucking news to me.

  124. 124
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    No thanks, unlike the rest of these deluded souls in balloon juice land, I harbor no illusions about your potential for reform and rehabilitation.

    You bring nothing to the table.

  125. 125
    gn says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: that’s pretty amazing. Anyone who would even *consider* exchanging the most progressive president of this generation for Scott Walker with a philly blunt just aint worth listening to, much less serving as a voice of the base. Tighten it up, folks! I hope that everyone has a wonderful weekend.

  126. 126
    TomG says:

    “the most progressive president of this generation” – gn (@125), are you talking about Obama? With a straight face?
    What definition of progressive are you using, may I ask?
    Show me one way where he is at all different from President G.W. Bush. Show me which war he has actually ENDED our involvement in. Show me speeches where he actually sounded like a progressive.
    I read a lot of left-libertarian sites who aren’t at all happy with the idea of Johnson or Ron Paul running, but none of them would EVER defend what Obama has been doing.

  127. 127
    gn says:

    Fauxgressive :to: English translation:

    “Show me one way where he is at all different from President G.W. Bush.”

    “If you would like to spend the afternoon engaging in a highly dishonest, fact-optional, narrative-driven discussion, please begin here.”

    Thanks, but no. I’m thinking of going for a walk in the botanic gardens. I want to see if all of the cherry blossom trees have blossomed.

  128. 128
    Stillwater says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: gg, EDK, and the rest of the libertarians just want a fresh chance for their beloved marketbased solutions to assrape American working families again.

    The demise of the middle class/working class enjoyed widely bipartisan support. Reagan moved the ball forward quite a bit by targeting unions, shifting union allegiance and creating/reinforcing a general anti-union/anti-labor hostility. He then moved to cut taxes on the wealthy and increase taxes on labor, shifting the costs of government away from the rich. Clinton picked up the ball and passed NAFTA and other ‘free-trade’ agreements, and moved the ball forward on GATT and the WTO and also repealed Glass Steagal (albeit, with some disputes re: its importance). There’s also a lot of murky details here about subsidizing outsourcing, standard shenaniganny tax loopholes and other ‘rents’ collected by private business along the way.

    By this time, the outsourcing/offshoring displacement and anti-union/anti-laborism was very much underway, since there was no cost to repatriate goods or services. But it was lauded by both conservatives as well as liberals. Bi! Partisan! Bush gets a unique status in the game since he oversaw the chickens roosting in the form of massive unemployment as well as implementing structural de-regulation (in practice, not in principle) that broke the whole systems back.

    Your use of the phrase ‘libertarian free-marketeers’ to apply to all this isn’t accurate. Liberals and conservatives held the view (and many still do) that a ‘free market’ is one devoid of government intervention on the retail side in the form of market-altering tariffs or taxes on repatriation, but both sides are also silent or in favor of continued government intervention in the form of subsidies, rents and tax breaks on the wholesale side. These views are class based and have nothing to do with any particular political ideology.

    Libertarianism views both types of activities as distortions of the market, and therefore, both types of activity lead to suboptimal outcomes. My take here is that you’re conflating class issues with market issues, and class ideology with libertarian ideology. Certainly there are any number of nominal libertarians who employ the term ‘free markets’ to mean markets that merely favor the wealthy. But many other libertarians point out that such a view is obviously unlibertarian.

    Insofar as EDK is a libertarian, he believes in regulated markets free from governmental activity that distorts price. And assuredly (if you’ve read his posts) he is opposed to a ‘free-market do-over’ like that which happened during Bush.

  129. 129
    Murc says:

    @bystander:

    That’s true, you did not advance that view. I apologize for implying it; I went a bit off the rails there.

  130. 130
    Stillwater says:

    @Bob Loblaw: Heh!

  131. 131
    Allan says:

    @TomG:

    I read a lot of left-libertarian sites

    There’s your problem right there.

    On my planet Obama signed HCR, Lily Ledbetter and the Mathew Shepard act into law. His DOL is going after Boeing.

    Hell, he even signed the repeal of DADT, which undid the mistake of liberal hero Bill Clinton.

  132. 132
    TomG says:

    So, Allan, I’m supposed to believe that the version of HCR that Obama signed was really the progressive one?
    Also, if you are convinced that reading and agreeing with left-leaning libertarians means I’m not on this planet, you have already made up your mind. Sadly, I find this true of a lot of people. I wonder how many left-libertarians you have actually bothered to read and understand the viewpoint of, let alone possibly find common cause with.
    I notice you ignored my point about ending wars.

  133. 133
    bystander says:

    @Murc: Thanks.

  134. 134
    Allan says:

    @TomG: You asked for one point of difference. I gave you several. The argument is finished, and I won.

    Try phrasing your statements more carefully in the future to avoid such embarrassing failures.

  135. 135
    Julie says:

    I don’t know enough about Gary Johnson to say what I’d think of him as president. But if we vote for people who support our ideals (for all kinds of offices, especially Congress), instead of always settling for reasonable moderates with moderate plans for incremental change, maybe we can dislodge those deeply rooted congressional constituencies.

  136. 136

    […] think mistermix makes some very good points regarding a Johnson administration and the inherent handicaps of politics over reality. My point […]

  137. 137
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Stillwater:

    he is opposed to a ‘free-market do-over’ like that which happened during Bush.

    you fucking liar. The Kain/Kuznicki Pretend 8 Years of Bush Happened Plan is a flagrant do over.
    Those libertarian assclowns don’t have a SINGLE FUCKING CLUE ablout to repair the decade of damage market-based policies caused.

    There is no true libertarianism in America, because America does not actually have a freemarket.
    All market-based policies have been corrupted by regulatory capture, rigged markets and cartels.
    A basic premise of libertarianism is that freemarket capitalism improves the human condition through individual freedom/liberty. This is empirically no longer true in America, because we only have a fake-freemarket. Actually evolutionary economists believe that this is a false premise over all.
    __
    Evolutionary economics draws on the evolutionary methodology of Charles Darwin and the non-equilibrium economics principle of circular and cumulative causation. It is naturalistic in purging earlier notions of economic change as teleological or necessarily improving the human condition.
    __
    Disclaimer: Please note, econ is not my domain and commenters fhtagn and Mandramas had to explain a lot of classical econ to me. I am however, interested in evolutionary economics because of game theory and the evolution of cooperation and reciprocal altruism.

  138. 138
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Sully is a fucking conservative shill. Just like EDK and Kuznicki and any other libertarian/conservative that spews that hayekian/burkean/humean/oakshottean freemarket bulshytt.
    Give me one single example of a market-based policy that has worked in the last 50 years.
    EDK couldn’t do it, and neither can you.

  139. 139
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Bob Loblaw: i bring plenty.
    you just don’t liek what i bring is all.
    fuck off, JAFI.

  140. 140
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    if you want to make unsupported allegations and then get snippy with people when they call you on it, go right ahead.

    but i do want to do that.
    I read somewhere that Gary Johnson was a creationist.
    catalepsis.
    ;)

  141. 141
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: If you read what I wrote not what the voices in your head tell you I wrote, you will see that I am not claim Sully is a progressive of anything other than a Tory. So spare me the lecture about him. Next, If you would step away from your assumption that anyone who disagrees with you about anything is a free market fundamentalist of some kind, the world would be a better place. I have no reason to try to prove anything to regarding free markets. Outside of consumer goods, I am not necessarily a big fan of market solutions and where, markets are appropriate, I tend to like them closely watched by a a regulator with the power to crush them like a grape the someone steps out of line. Of course, you would never notice that because the moment someone becomes annoyed by your vendetta against EDK, you sign that person up in your mind as a member of the global glibertarian bund.

  142. 142
    Stillwater says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:
    I’m a liar? That means I’m deliberately misrepresenting a matter of fact. What specifically am I lying about (notice the word ‘specifically’) in the comment I made above? I do find it amusing, and again something you ought to feel great shame about but you won’t, that the evidence you cite to refute my claims is a repetition of incorrect and evidence free assertions that you wrote. If you have disputes with libertarianism or how I characterized it you ought to criticize the actual ideology, or my specific claims regarding it, rather than a covenient strawman that no one – except you – believes.

  143. 143
    Stillwater says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: The GGB. We’re both members in good standing. And oddly, I’ve never considered myself a libertarian. Whaduyaknow?

  144. 144
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Stillwater: Hell, I never even went through a libertarian phase in my teens. I don’t know why I can’t just stay in the boat.

  145. 145
    Stillwater says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: I never went thru that phase either, and have been a pretty constant critic of the merits of the view. I think it’s altogether divorced from reality or practicality. Imagine my surprise to find out I’m not only an ardent believer, but have nefarious motives to subvert impressionable liberals into reliving Glorious Bush Years.

    She’s just plain crazy. Literally!

    Points to Loblaw: Never get out of the fracking boat!

  146. 146
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: no, you are just all stupid enough to fall for that freemarket market-based glibertarian grifter bs.
    time after time.
    @Stillwater:

    he is opposed to a ‘free-market do-over’

    lie. the Kain/Kuznicki plan is freemarket do over.

  147. 147
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: You didn’t read a word, did you?

  148. 148
    Stillwater says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley: you are just all stupid enough to fall for that freemarket market-based glibertarian grifter bs.

    Ha! That’s funny. You’re the only one in this conversation to ever fall that stuff Matoko. That bears repeating: you were once a glibercon. From before I was you’re age, I had my eyes wide open and was never fooled, never taken in. You were. And now you’re tilting at windmills like a lover jilted by the Invisible Hand.

  149. 149
    Stillwater says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: You didn’t read a word, did you?

    She reads a word, or perhaps two. Just enough to reconfirm that you’re a libertarian operative trying to take liberalism down from within.

  150. 150
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Stillwater: actually not.
    I never thought about economics, never took an econ course. Not interested, and I have a 0.0 business aptitude (99.0 hard sciences aptitude)
    My university coursework is all hard sciences.
    I am just gobsmacked that people continue to give credibility to market-based economics and libertarians afer the empirical EPIC FAIL of market-based economics in America.
    Its amazing.
    When some one says they are a libertarian now, I just point and laugh.
    ;)

  151. 151

    […] saw over the weekend Mistermix’s post on  E. D. Kain’s love for Gary Johnson.  I dutifully read the linked […]

  152. 152
    suzanne says:

    @Hermione Granger-Weasley:

    My university coursework is all hard sciences.

    Is that where you learned to spell “bullshytt”?
    God, you’re a fucking shitstain.

Trackbacks & Pingbacks

  1. […] saw over the weekend Mistermix’s post on  E. D. Kain’s love for Gary Johnson.  I dutifully read the linked […]

  2. […] think mistermix makes some very good points regarding a Johnson administration and the inherent handicaps of politics over reality. My point […]

Comments are closed.