Now it’s just getting silly…

So I clicked over to Sullivan’s new digs to see how he was reacting to criticism over his sparkle eyes for Paul Ryan and he had a post up of some criticism with his responses. This part of it made me laugh out loud:

The in-tray is still bulging with fury over Paul Ryan. I find the arguments bracing – and in themselves evidence that Ryan’s proposal has already helped move the debate to more earnest grounds.

This reminds me of that recent internet meme Pete Hoskstra created in 2009 when–during the brutal oppression of Iranians–he tweeted:

“Iranian twitter activity similar to what we did in House last year when Republicans were shut down in the House.”

It created a great and amusing meme and Sullivan’s comment about Paul Ryan’s “conversation starter” strikes me as something similar.

  • John McCain’s arguments against DADT are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on LGBT rights to earnest grounds…
  • Grover Norquist’s views on Government are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on tax policy to earnest grounds…
  • Terry Jones burning a Koran was bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on free speech and religious freedom to earnest grounds…

Sullivan’s pretty lame defense of the Ryan Bamboozlement is just as silly as the above applications of Sully’s logic. The mere fact that folks are talking about how deeply flawed Ryan’s scam is can not be viewed as evidence that it is ‘serious’ or ‘earnest’ or even useful. To pretend otherwise is just silly.

Once again Sullivan is lacing up his clown shoes–just as he did it for the Iraq war. This time he is all sparkle eyed over Ryan’s plan, and once again reality no longer matters.  In time, the sparkles will fade from his eyes and he’ll know that Ryan played him for a sucker. But until then he’ll defend Ryan as ‘serious’ regardless of mountains of facts to the contrary. It has already become quite silly and we still have months of this bullshit to live through.

Cheers

103 replies
  1. 1
    Little Boots says:

    ya know, I hate homophobia, but does he have a crush or what? the guy who can see through Sarah Palin so completely falls for an obvious conman like Ryan and we’re not supposed to notice?

  2. 2
    Darius says:

    Jonathan Swift’s modest proposals are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on eating children to earnest grounds…

  3. 3
    Calouste says:

    Sully’s logic

    Bullshit.

    Sullivan is as much in the tank for the GOP as Grover Norquist. There is no logic involved, just ideology. The whole “no party” is a ruse.

  4. 4
    Little Boots says:

    actually, I’m pretty sad about Sullivan. what is this shit? he’s smarter than this, but Ryan comes along with this half assed crap and he falls for it completely. jesus, Andrew, get a grip.

  5. 5
    Dennis G. says:

    @Darius:
    There you go.

    The applications are endless, but it is only a matter of time before Godwin’s Law is proven to be true.

    Cheers

  6. 6
    eemom says:

    why is this blog trying to kill me?

  7. 7
    scav says:

    well, insofar as Ryan’s proposal is probably within spitting distance of the absolute kelvin 0 degrees of earnest, any discussion that followed would necessarily be a movement towards more earnest ground.

  8. 8
    Midnight Marauder says:

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s arguments that the Holocaust was an elaborate hoax are bracing and the heated response to the remarks is evidence that Ahmadinejad’s ideas have already helped move the debate to more earnest grounds.

  9. 9
    sukabi says:

    @Little Boots: these “man crushes” aren’t limited to Sullivan… Tweety went all “tingley thighed” over W for the first 7 years of his occupation of the WH… as did most of the rest of the Wash press corps, pundits and assorted other assholes… I think it has more to do with an S&M predisposition than a sexual orientation… ie, it doesn’t matter the nonsense that’s being pushed, as long as
    1) the person pushing it gives the appearance of being “In Charge” and
    2) someone’s going to get hurt (the poor, or dems)

  10. 10
    Cliff says:

    Hey! Hey, do you guys remember all the thousands and thousands of words devoted to Sully and how he wasn’t so bad and how this particular thing he was saying might be brain-hemorrhagingly stupid but in the long run he’s actually kind of thought provoking and worth paying attention to?

    Good times, good times.

  11. 11
    jeffreyw says:

    Colonel James Forsyth’s views on Indians are bracing, and his actions at Wounded Knee have moved the debate over relocation policy to earnest grounds.

  12. 12
    Little Boots says:

    @sukabi:

    What pisses me off is Sully should know better. but he honestly does not give a shit if the poors get it. he truly does not. that is what we see every time he writes. and really, that does piss me off.

  13. 13
    Calouste says:

    Uganda’s Anti-Homosexuality Bill that introduces the death penalty for HIV-positive homosexuals is bracing and evidence that the debate on LGBT rights in Uganda has moved to earnest grounds.

  14. 14
    Martin says:

    Eh. Sully has moved from an employer that made an earnest if incomplete effort at journalism to one that blatantly whores for pageviews. He’s taking the business model of John Dvorak which was to write insane contrarian shit and then rake in the dough when every outraged reader linked to him on their blogs, pointing out his insane contrarian shit.

    It works great. How much traffic has Sully gotten BJ to give him? How quickly is his page rank over at the new digs rising?

  15. 15
    azlib says:

    Sounds to me like Sully just read Ryan’s press releases and never bothered to actually look at the proposed budget or even have anybody with a rudimentary knowledge of the Federal budget process do it for him. Why and how do these people get away with this nonsense? More importantly, why do their editors keep them around? Do they have pictures or something?

  16. 16
    sukabi says:

    @Little Boots: don’t know why it surprises you or pisses you off, he’s been playing the same song for the last 10+ years…

    assholes are going to continue to be assholes, no matter how much you tell them to quit pushing out shit. It’s what they do.

  17. 17
    Gin & Tonic says:

    I find Bristol Palin’s arguments on teenage chastity bracing, and … hell, I can’t even do it as snark.

  18. 18
    Little Boots says:

    @sukabi:

    cause he’s smarter than that, and I can be sentimental. but you do have a point. still, he just pisses me off.

  19. 19
    Rich2506 says:

    I went through Ryan’s proposal in detail and would have glumly thought (If they still printed books on paper) “Bleaugh! They killed a tree for this?!?!”

  20. 20
    Martin says:

    @azlib:

    Do they have pictures or something?

    Better. They have page views. Glenn Beck was Fox News’ greatest journalist until the left killed off his advertisers. Once the advertisers left, so did Beck.

  21. 21
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @Martin: Jeez, Dvorak is still in business? I forgot about him like 8 years ago or something.

  22. 22
    Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN) says:

    @sukabi: You do a disservice to the submissives I have known.

  23. 23
    sukabi says:

    @Little Boots: well consider this… if he truly IS SMARTER than this, then he is a sociopath… he knowingly and willingly uses his “influence” to push policies that will benefit him greatly on one hand (tax cuts) and will also hurt millions of not as fortunate people on the other… AND HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH THAT.

  24. 24
    sukabi says:

    @Tissue Thin Pseudonym (JMN): and they were willing participants I’m guessing… unlike the recipients of the R’s policies…

  25. 25
    Little Boots says:

    @sukabi:

    he takes “the personal is the political” way too seriously. I mean he has a good mind and he writes well, but it’s all about him, way too often. it is kind of psychotic at times.

  26. 26
    Will Reks says:

    It’s bad enough that Paul Ryan is my representative. Now he’s in the news and I have to read about him all day.

  27. 27
    Chris says:

    I remember an old TNR article from the ’90s in which someone (spoiler alert: yeah, it was Sullivan) very methodically and completely took apart Pat Buchanan’s arguments against gay marriage… so, it’s in sadness more than anger that I offer this:

    Pat Buchanan’s arguments against gay marriage (and other gay rights) are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on gay marriage (and other gay rights) to earnest grounds.

    Ya like that, Sully?

  28. 28
    Midnight Marauder says:

    Pol Pot’s ideas on anti-intellectualism are bracing and the outcry against his Khmer Rogue regime’s “Killing Fields” is evidence in itself that Pol Pot’s proposals have already helped move the debate to more earnest grounds.

  29. 29
    SFAW says:

    See, I think Sully is just channeling Hitchens. Or, at least, the drunk part of Hitchens. Makes him think he’s Brendan Behan or Dylan Thomas or some other drunk Englishman. (So to speak.)

    Although Hitchens useta be able to write better than Sully, once upon a time.

  30. 30
    jrg says:

    I really don’t understand why no one here thinks the Ryan budget is “serious”. It acknowledges that NPR does not make up 5% of the federal budget. That’s a step forward.

    Americans are profoundly fucking stupid. If the Ryan budget forces them to take out of their busy schedule licking windows and shoving peas in their nose so they can google “US federal budget”, I’d say it’s a step in the right direction.

  31. 31
    Wag says:

    Shorter Sully:

    “Paul Ryan is kinda cute. I get turned on when he talks tough! Sarah talking tough? Eeh, doesn’t do much for me.”

    I guess I agree halfway with Andrew. I don’t get turned on when either Paul or Sarah talks GOP tough.

  32. 32
  33. 33
    Little Boots says:

    Sully is so fucked up. I think he honestly wrestles with things, but if it affects him personally, he twists and turns until the personal benefit emerges as the only honest answer. he’s fucked up that way.

  34. 34
    sukabi says:

    @Little Boots: John Wayne Gacy’s “art” sold rather well too… doesn’t mean he was a talented artist…

    This is what you’re describing:

    nar·cis·sism
       /ˈnɑrsəˌsɪzɛm/ Show Spelled[nahr-suh-siz-em] Show IPA
    –noun
    1.
    inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.
    2.
    Psychoanalysis . erotic gratification derived from admiration of one’s own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

  35. 35
    sukabi says:

    @Little Boots: you’re projecting what you want to believe about Sullivan on to Sullivan… there’s no way you can tell if he “wrestles” with any of the horseshit he writes. He may very well be torn about some issues, but you don’t know that…

  36. 36
    Little Boots says:

    @sukabi:

    fair enough. he may not. he seems to, but it could all be projection. you’re right.

  37. 37
    patroclus says:

    Jeffrey Dahmer’s views on sex-inspired cannibalism are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate to more earnest grounds.

  38. 38
    Martin says:

    Hmm. The NYT editorial board is shrill.

    The public is not going to be fooled once it sees what the Republicans, pushed by Tea Party members, were really holding out for. There are a few hours left to stop this dangerous game, and for the Republicans to start doing their job, which, if they’ve forgotten, is to serve the American people.

  39. 39
    JenJen says:

    This entire episode has been painful to watch, but this particular exchange blew my mind. As part of a response from a reader who succinctly destroyed Sullivan’s pro-Ryan stance, this was included:

    7. The proposal is fiscally reckless. What happens after we explode the deficit via tax cuts for the rich over the next decade, and then today’s 45 and 50 year olds demand benefits akin to what those slightly older have been getting?

    And Sully’s response to that?

    7. My generation will have to suck it up.

    Speak for yourself, Mr. Self-Proclaimed Voice of a Generation. Asshole.

    Oh, and as far as the meme? I love it! How about

    Donald Trump’s views on Constitutionally-prescribed Presidential qualifications are bracing and evidence that he has moved the debate on the President’s birth certificate to earnest grounds.

  40. 40
    Redshift says:

    @Calouste: Ah, but if he was a garden-variety wingnut, he’d be going on about how the fact that people are calling out Ryan’s BS means that we’re actually afraid of him.

  41. 41
    asiangrrlMN says:

    Sully struggles mightily with the same Damascus fig issue every dingdang time. He never learns. I don’t understand why Cole, et. al, are obsessed over this particular bit of bullsheetrock from Sully as it’s the same Fu Schnicken song and dance he does every single time. dengre actually sums it up pretty well. Sully gets starbursty over something, be it the Iraq war or Paul Ryan’s uber-serious plan and refuses to listen to reason. Then, five months or five years later, when the infatuation wears off, he castigates himself (or not) and moves on to his next shiny object. It is who he mudderrucking is. Why does anyone expect anything different? Sully only cares about things that personally affect him. He’s comfortable and has health insurance, so his beautiful mind cannot be, yes, sullied with the dirty details of what the Path to Powerty would actually mean for ninety-five percent of the country.

    ETA: My decision to find Sully and knee him in the nuts would be a bracing conversation about how much contempt I feel for him and his rubbish.

  42. 42
    sukabi says:

    @JenJen: basically he doesn’t really care, because he’s set for life.

  43. 43
    SFAW says:

    7. My generation will have to suck it up.

    He’s wrong. It’s his generation, and every generation after his, for the foreseeable future. (“Foreseeable future” being defined as “200 years or the destruction of the planet, whichever comes first”. And knowing the Rethugs, it’ll take them a lot less than 200 years to destroy Earth.)

  44. 44
    Gian says:

    He seems to be the “I’m alright jack, keep yoor hand off of my stack” in the flesh
    with the utter lack of figuring out that the guys he supports wouldn’t mind seeing him handled like some poor kid from wyoming. If you ask me, he’s damn insane.

    He’s like a Black guy shilling for David Duke. I mean really, as a person with a brain, do you support the people who want to quarantine, or kill you and that love the uber-rich and want to screw everyone else, or do you support the people who don’t want to kill you?

    crazy assed mofo supports the people who want to whack him, and frankly that DQs him from being anything other than a loonytune.

  45. 45
    malraux says:

    @Little Boots:

    actually, I’m pretty sad about Sullivan. what is this shit? he’s smarter than this, but Ryan comes along with this half assed crap and he falls for it completely. jesus, Andrew, get a grip.

    Given the number of times he gets bamboozled by republican bull, I’d have to say the evidence is that he is not smarter than this. Heck, after the whole Bell Curve thing, 17 years ago, it was obvious that Sullivan was not smarter than this. Every one of his bamboozling follows the same sort of frame. A rightwing faux intellectual comes out with an obviously wrong and clearly malicious idea and Sullivan is right there cheering it on.

  46. 46
    Ben JB says:

    This almost reminds me of Sully talking about Betsy McCaughey and how he ran her bullshit article because it was provocative.

  47. 47
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @malraux: Agreed. And, if he is smarter than that, then he’s being willfully ignorant, which is even worse. So, he can choose. Willfully ignorant or simply not that bright.

  48. 48
    JenJen says:

    @sukabi: Exactly right. And that makes him an asshole.

  49. 49
    freelancer says:

    @SFAW:

    He’s wrong. It’s his generation, and every generation after his, for the foreseeable future. (“Foreseeable future” being defined as “200 years or the destruction of the planet, whichever comes first”. And knowing the Rethugs, it’ll take them a lot less than 200 years to destroy Earth.)

    Remember that post where he just flipped the hell out and was like “Hey, you! Every single one of you under 30? Obama just screwed you.”?

    What the hell does he think this is?

  50. 50
    Will Reks says:

    @JenJen

    Well, his generation might have to suck it up, but not his class.

  51. 51
    tkogrumpy says:

    Is this guy Dennis really a John Cole sockpuppet?

  52. 52
    moops says:

    Actually, I think all our mail to him has had an impact. I didn’t expect my own mail to him to be quoted (after all, BJ posters love to comment on my terrible grammar) but obviously our combined assault on his inbox was noticed.

    That he is taken in again and again by charlatans that tell him his prejudices are indeed facts is just the measure of his character and intelligence.

  53. 53
    Mike M says:

    For many members of the pundit class, there is no more sacred cause than reducing the deficit. They may not understand macroeconomics any better than the physics behind the radiation in Fukushima, but they know that both deficits and radiation will soon destroy us all, if they are not stopped. Anyone who has the courage to propose cuts is a hero and a savior.

    I watched Will Cain interrogate Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL) this evening on CNN, and at one point while Nelson was explaining his objections to Republican policy riders in the current budget bill, Cain taunted him, “Aren’t you more concerned about the deficit? Sounds like the Democrats are turning into the Party of No.” In other words, any hesitation on cutting the budget is a clear sign that you just aren’t taking the country’s dire situation seriously.

    Of course, these are the same people who believe, or claim to believe, that cutting taxes will boost government revenue, spur job growth, and return the country to prosperity. The government just needs to get out of the way.

    How can you argue with these people? You might as well be trying to explain evolution.

  54. 54
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @freelancer:

    Remember that post where he just flipped the hell out and was like “Hey, you! Every single one of you under 30? Obama just screwed you.”?
    __
    What the hell does he think this is?

    Fucking awesome.

  55. 55
    moops says:

    @tkogrumpy:

    I sorta doubt that. Their response to irritants is markedly different.

    Skinner would not claim one is the other…but then…Skinner was a bit crappy at these kinds of predictions.

  56. 56
    moops says:

    @Mike M:

    How can you argue with these people? You might as well be trying to explain evolution.

    I’m sorry. BJ comments section does not like being challenged in this fashion. They do not WANT to discuss how to talk to these people. Trying to have that discussion makes you a troll. Wanting to have that conversation makes you a… something….conservative ? teatard ? I’ll let the folks here tar and feather you for your transgression.

  57. 57
    The Thin Black Duke says:

    Honestly, I’m still trying to wrap my frontal lobes around the idea of a “gay republican”. When matter and anti-matter meet, don’t things usually go “BOOM”?

    Then again, nothing about the GOP’s barbaric jihad against Medicaid and Social Security makes much sense either.

    Bottom line, if Ryan’s evil hallucination ever became a reality, it would kill people and destroy the United States. No joke. it’s impossible to overstate this. America is staring into the abyss and the abyss is staring back, winking.

    Knowing this, it’s contemptible that Sullivan feels compelled to be a cheerleader for these sociopaths of the GOP, and if he had even a rumor of self-respect at all, he’d deep throat the exhaust pipe of his Lexus.

    Then again, I’m sure the Iraq war didn’t cost Sullivan many sleepless nights either. I bet his nipples got hard seeing Dubya in his “Top Gun” costume.

  58. 58
    opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland says:

    @Little Boots: … is Ryan attractive? What am I missing here?

  59. 59
    opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland says:

    @sukabi: or brown people.

  60. 60
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    What Sully really meant to say about Rep. Ryan:

    I’m sure I’m not the only gay Republican in America who, when Ryan announced his Plan For Prosperity, sat up a little straighter on the couch and said, “Hey, I think he just winked at me.” And his smile. By the end, when he clearly knew he was doing well, it was so sparkling it was almost mesmerizing. It sent little starbursts through the screen and ricocheting around the living rooms of America. This is a quality that can’t be learned; it’s either something you have or you don’t, and man, he’s got it.

    Now if Sarah Palin had been the one to announce this plan…

  61. 61
    JenJen says:

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: I will never, ever, ever, be able to read that classic prose without hearing it in Keith Olbermann’s voice, as he reenacted it. And that’s a good thing.

    Really one of my fave Election 2008 moments. Well-turned!

  62. 62
    Ally says:

    Lately I’ve just stopped reading Sully. He just seems too needy, too eager to be in tune with the Zeitgeist. Hating the Daily Beast made it that much easier for me to quit.

    I think Andrew loves to shock people by being a gay Tory, so he’s all happy when he can find a Republican who he thinks is not embarrassing.

    Ha.

  63. 63
    thalarctos says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Damascus fig?

    I didn’t get the reference, and teh Google had nothing useful to offer.

    cheers,

    thalarctos

  64. 64
  65. 65
    JenJen says:

    “Earnest Grounds” is begging to be a new Balloon Juice tag.

    Gosh, I love me some Dennis G. posts. /fangirl

  66. 66
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @JenJen:

    KO was appropriately creepy when he was voicing Rich Lowry that day.

    The fact that Sully ridiculed Lowry for that is the icing on his He-Man love cake…lol!

  67. 67
    Hovercraft Full of Eels says:

    I’m beyond exhausted with reading about how smart this guy is, or what a good writer he is, even when he’s giving voice to terrible ideas.

    Wise up, people. He’s a vile, smug sociopath and Confederate-enabler who deserves nothing but ridicule and/or contempt.

  68. 68
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    Good Christ, you guys are still sniffing the underwear of Sullivan? Okay, so much for my monthly BJ visit. Waste of time.

  69. 69
    Pat says:

    Sully is a fat, balding, aging gay man who has an infatuation (as so many of the pundits do) with Paul Ryan’s blue eyes and massive Ronnie Reagan hair. Heck, let’s throw Ryan’s “tallness” in there too.

    Before anyone starts calling me out for “bashing the gays”, please know that I am a lesbian. However, I still call them as I see them and it appears to me that Sully cannot get past Ryan’s “beautiful face”.

  70. 70
  71. 71
    Kane says:

    Somewhere along the way, Sully has convinced himself that the primary purpose of a blogger is simply to take a position. But anyone can latch onto a narrative. The skilled bloggers are those who can look beyond the narrative and take a position that is grounded in truth.

  72. 72
    dr. bloor says:

    So I clicked over to Sullivan’s new digs…

    ZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz…….

  73. 73
    Tom65 says:

    I have lots of issues with Ryan’s plan, but it’s the first time a Republican has publicly stood up and said Medicare as it now is is unaffordable and Americans are going to have to get used to a less generous program if we have any hope of living within our means.

    Are you fucking kidding me???

  74. 74
    Thomas says:

    If you read Sullivan very much you know that with a couple notable exceptions (Iraq war being one) he cannot admit when he’s wrong or he will try and deflect for a very long time before admitting it. I think the guy’s ego is massive and acknowledging that his position was stupid is just too much for him to bear.

  75. 75
    rickstersherpa says:

    Sullivan came of age under Reagan and Thatcher with the Romantic view of capitalism and strong distaste for the Welfare State 1970s England he grew up in, which unfortunately pushed the idea past the point of dimishing returns just as old Industrial England was going into obsolescence (the fault of its managers as much as the unions. Hence, he has always been a sucker for the movement conservative meme attacks on Social Security and Medicare. Also, perhaps because he his post-colonial era Brit and immigrant, he doesn’t understand how our particular vicious American cultural history on race makes “means testing” programs a “death sentence” for those programs. Because in America, poor whites are invisible, even to themselves as only losers are poor, and Black, Brown, and Native Americans are losers by definition who get “benefits” white people don’t get from white peoples tax money. The whole campaign on the right agains the AFHCA is centered on this meme of resentment, that money is being taken from white people (in taxes and Medicare) and given to those “others” and the fires of resentment. And the final clincher is that of course it has made Sully in the establishment and placed in a position of life where is likely not to have to worry about finding the extra $20,000 a year to supplement his Ryan voucher. Meanwhile figures like Digby, Charles Pierce, Bob Somerby, and Eric Alterman will have to keep working for a living.

    I will say this, on the Ryan matter, he is being consistent with his open fondness for the Hayekian society, on economic issues, with certain notable exceptions, he is always going to find Conservative Republican programs to shift income from rest of to the rich and to screw the middle class and poor bracing and evidence that they have moved the debate to earnest grounds.

    By the way, do I get points for combining “with certain notable exceptions” and “bracing, and evidence of moving the debate to earnest grounds” into the same sentence.

  76. 76
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Dennis G.: Looks like Cole got Sully’s attention.

    But when Cole is this angry, it’s hard to argue with him. And yes, the bold caps are his.

  77. 77
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @Little Boots: if Sarah Palin was XY Sully would totally dig her.

  78. 78
    Emma says:

    All right, that’s it. Intervention time. We have to stop this blog from becoming all-Sullivan all the time. Who’s with me?

    Now, seriously. Repeat after me. Andrew Sullivan has spent his life pretending he belongs to a sociopolitical stratum where his kind is considered, at best, an embarrassment. He also has mommy issues, and no woman except Maggie Thatcher is good enough. He ALSO tends to fall for the first pretty male face he sees in politics, as long as said face belongs to someone in the stratum he aspires to.

    Enough said.

  79. 79
    Lee says:

    and we still have months of this bullshit to live through.

    Is exactly why I no longer read Sully.

    I used to read him multiple times every day.

  80. 80
    Emma says:

    SFAW: Dylan Thomas.Was.Not.An.Englishman.

    This has been a public service announcement on behalf of the proud country of Wales.

  81. 81
    roshan says:

    When I first read this post I overlooked the author tag and assumed that Cole wrote it. Then, on the next visit to the site I read it again, this time noticing who wrote it. It’s like Cole took over Dennis’ brain when he put up this post. I just couldn’t tell the difference between what Cole has been writing about the Sullivan/Ryan-Budget and this post. Dennis has either become a Cole clone or maybe has learned the finer ways of wingnut welfare system.

  82. 82
    kay says:

    @rickstersherpa:

    I will say this, on the Ryan matter, he is being consistent with his open fondness for the Hayekian society, on economic issues, with certain notable exceptions, he is always going to find Conservative Republican programs to shift income from rest of to the rich and to screw the middle class and poor bracing and evidence that they have moved the debate to earnest grounds.

    Voucherizing Medicare doesn’t even do that. It’s another dodge, another shift, but the medical costs don’t go away.
    His plan is conservative dogma, but besides that, it won’t work.
    What happens when the elderly burn through their private insurance plan? Do they then go on Medicaid? Or, do they incur medical costs and discharge them in bankruptcy? What happens to private insurance rates when we dump the highest-risk segment of the population into the system?
    He’s not even shifting these costs in a rational or predictable way. This is magical thinking.
    The costs aren’t going away, no matter how many times Ryan taps his heels together and makes a wish. They have to go somewhere, the bill has to be paid, and if elderly people can’t pay it, the rest of us are going to pay it.
    He never grapples with that. Conservatives never grapple with that, because they will not admit or accept that heal;th care is NOT like any other good or service.

  83. 83
    WereBear says:

    @kay: Or, you know, they could just die in the street.

    I believe that is perfectly fine with the Republicans.

  84. 84
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Emma: And Behan was Irish.

  85. 85
    Hermione Granger-Weasley says:

    @kay: Conservatives/libertarians simply cannot accept that Hayek was wrong. Just like they cannot accept that the burkean/humian/oakeshottian/randian bullshytt they spout is just a recipe for expensive economic failsauce.
    Vouchers are a freemarket solution.
    Like NCLB.

  86. 86
    kay says:

    @WereBear:

    Or, you know, they could just die in the street.

    States would never accept this plan. They’d be nuts to allow Congressional Republicans to shift this mess to their states.
    He guts the federal program, and then (eventually, when his plan takes down the whole private system) dumps the elderly in Medicaid or into the informal uncompensated “payment plan” that bankruptcy has become, then he guts Medicaid.
    States actually have to grapple with real human beings, arriving at existing brick and mortar facilities. Who is going to pay for the millions of refugees from this fantasy plan?
    States are. We are. It’s yet another dodge.

  87. 87
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @kay: If people would just pull themselves up by their bootstraps and buy insurance there would be no problems. Jeez.

  88. 88
    WereBear says:

    @kay: Oh yes, absolutely; we aren’t Calcutta, and we let people die, discreetly, in a hospital after their preventable and treatable conditions reach a terminal phase.

    Then use the ensuing financial crisis to further dismantle our civilization, which the Rich don’t need.

  89. 89
    Georgia Pig says:

    @kay: Exactly, which is why Sullivan and the other dilettantes are so full of crap. They eternally dodge the really hard question, which is “how much of our economy should be for health care?” and instead act out philosophical fantasies that largely are just a pretty cover for selfishness or even sadism. Sullivan is a real freaking hypocrite on this, seeing as he ostentatiously flaunts his catholic beliefs. I think he fantasizes more about wearing the celice — or more accurately, about others wearing the celice — than about the real sacrifice for the Other that his professed christianity would demand. Fuck him and the horse he rode in on.

  90. 90
    kay says:

    @WereBear:

    It’s such arrogance. If it were as easy as distributing vouchers, we would have solved this long ago.
    The one and only reason the PPACA has a shot at succeeding is because the elderly are not included in the (prospective) pool. Medicare, Medicaid and private insurance are linked. Hell, Medicare and Medicaid are linked. They’re inseparable. This is a system. It sucks and it doesn’t work well, but it’s come to exist, and you can’t just blow it up without massive disruption. It’s not just old people and poor people. This would affect every single person in the system. It makes the PPACA look like a minor blip.

  91. 91
    WereBear says:

    @kay: You are so right; but this isn’t about finding a system that works. It’s about kissing the behinds of billionaires.

  92. 92
    Woodrowfan says:

    The Japanese earthquake moved the debate about nuclear power!

    That iceberg and the Titanic moved the debate about ship design!

    The Holocaust moved the debate about a Jewish Homeland!

    Two Girls and a Cup moved the debate about hygiene!

  93. 93
    Bruce S says:

    I didn’t think you could be both earnest and dishonest. Maybe I’m missing something. I believe that authentic sincerity means one doesn’t deliberately try to sell bullshit. Is a used car dealer “earnest?” Aggressive and highly motivated, certainly, but “earnest?’ (Of course I’m restating the obvious in DennisG’s post, but I just had to get it out of my system! This guy Ryan is driving me nuts – that weird stare of his is scary.)

    I’m sick of the faux naive pose – such as Sullivan’s – ascribing qualities I associate with decency to sociopaths like Ryan. I’m sure he’s a “nice guy” with the wife and kids, but Krugman has nailed him with the only appropriate adjectives: “Cruel and ludicrous.” The “Starve the Beast” scheme has been a dishonest hustle from Day One and Ryan is just another weasel in the long parade of lying assholes.

    http://titanicsailsatdawn.blog.....oorer.html

  94. 94
    kay says:

    @WereBear:

    I think it’s grossly arrogant and disrespectful to all those earnest experts who devote their whole fucking career to trying to solve complex problems for conservatives to waltz in, having skipped the whole substantive health care debate we just had, and drop this facile easy-peasy piece of shit on the table.

    “Vouchers! Why didn’t we think of that!”

    Imagine working with these assholes in real life.

  95. 95
    The Fool says:

    I know a guy who thinks we should “kick all the faggots out of the Army.”

    Next time I see him I’ll be sure to thank him on Andrew Sullivan’s behalf for helping move the conversation. I mean we’ve been stuck in this half-assed mode of officially not letting people be gay in the military but in reality winking our eye at it with DADT. But DADT is a half-assed compromise that we need to move off of. So according to Andrew Sullivan’s “logic” the guy I know who thinks all faggots should be kicked out of the Army is just helping out.

    Way to go Sullivan. You proved once again, for anyone stupid enough not to already know, that Andrew Sullivan is a complete asshole.

  96. 96
    WereBear says:

    @kay: Imagine working with these assholes in real life.

    Sigh!

    Don’t have to/why I moved North

  97. 97
    Sebastian Dangerfield says:

    Man oh man the Sully playbook is transparent.

    1. Go off the deep end on some absolute batshit foolishness displaying complete ignorance (most recently, Paul Ryan, a few weeks ago Scott Walker).

    2. Get called on it. In fact, have your position methodically and ruthlessly demolished.

    3. Double down, selectively quote a few “dissents” (invariably the less effective ones or effective ones selectively edited to seem less so), straw up the arguments, attack all critics as unhinged. Extra points for huffy umbrage.

    4. When the critiques don’t die down and others (LoOGies, Bartlett) start to notice that you’re flailing, sheepishly acknowledge *some* of the problems with the position you recently embraced wholesale. Extra points for fessing up only to the less glaring problems, and minimizing even those.

    5. Say that even though there may be some problems at the margins of the position you previously embraced wholesale, you were right to embrace it because it has engendered healthy debate. Teach the controversy!!

    This is exactly the trajectory of the Bell Curve fiasco and many many other Sully brain farts. And a pale shadow of the master of this play can be seen in young Conor: note that this is exactly how he played his ridiculous pimping of the Pigford bullshit. Can’t hate these assholes enough.

    I’ve taken the pledge: no more hits for Sully (although I will continue to enjoy the occasional Sully beat-down in these quarters).

  98. 98
    Tim, Interrupted says:

    @Pat:

    Sully is a fat, balding, aging gay man who has an infatuation (as so many of the pundits do) with Paul Ryan’s blue eyes and massive Ronnie Reagan hair. Heck, let’s throw Ryan’s “tallness” in there too. Before anyone starts calling me out for “bashing the gays”, please know that I am a lesbian. However, I still call them as I see them and it appears to me that Sully cannot get past Ryan’s “beautiful face”.

    Pat, I am a gay man, and I believe you are exactly right. Sullivan was in love with GWB, Rummy, and Cheney among others back in the day, and it was obvious his lust colored his views. He pretty much said so on his blog at the time, going on about how sexy they were as “daddy” types. vomit.

    As someone who was deeply moved by most of Sullivan’s book “Love Undetectable,” and who then watched in horror as this seemingly soulful writer whored for GWB’s election, cheered on the Iraq War, and was exposed as a sexual hypocrite (BarebackCity.com), I have often wondered if his use of steroids as part of his HIV drug regimen has altered his brain. I am completely serious: steroids are associated with aggressive thinking/actions and all kinds of violence, mental and physical. Google it.

  99. 99
    Tim, Interrupted says:

    @roshan:

    When I first read this post I overlooked the author tag and assumed that Cole wrote it. Then, on the next visit to the site I read it again, this time noticing who wrote it. It’s like Cole took over Dennis’ brain when he put up this post. I just couldn’t tell the difference between what Cole has been writing about the Sullivan/Ryan-Budget and this post. Dennis has either become a Cole clone or maybe has learned the finer ways of wingnut welfare system.

    Is it possible Dennis is a JC sockpuppet? There are two commenters I am deeply suspicious of being Cole in disguise.

  100. 100
    Tim, Interrupted says:

    Also, too, and furthermore, keep in mind, folks, that Andrew Bareback Warmonger Sullivan is as we speak in LA, enjoying the amenities of his luxury hotel accomodations, as he prepares to appear on Real Time with Bill Maher AGAIN tonight.

    I used to like Maher. But he sure does use that show to give a platform to wingnuts a LOT. And all too often, he treats them with the respect they do not deserve.

  101. 101
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @thalarctos: Oh dear. See, I gave up swearing for Lent because I’m running for president as a Republican. I’m even marrying Yutsy to make it all legit. But, I really really really love my swears. Like, a lot. So, I made up some replacement swears, Damascus figs being one of my favorites. Sorry for the confusion!

  102. 102
    Dennis G. says:

    @Tim, Interrupted:
    Quite amusing.

  103. 103
    thalarctos says:

    @asiangrrlMN: np, cheers!

    I think the moral here is that one really shouldn’t give up swearing :).

Comments are closed.