And Like That, All GOP Charges of Voter Fraud Vanished

Because Prosser is now back in the lead.






120 replies
  1. 1
    Turgidson says:

    Per TPM, the lead has changed hands at least twice today. Who the hell knows where the final numbers will land.

    ETA: now TPM is saying Waukesha may have just found another 7,000 votes. Lame.

  2. 2
    Libby says:

    The world according to GOPers. Election win = absolute mandate. Election loss = voter fraud.

  3. 3
    Cris says:

    This is going to be brutal. I may have to tune out, because there are going to be so many conflicting reports. We really won’t know anything until the final recount tallies are in.

  4. 4
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Bitch!

  5. 5
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Turgidson: Seven thousand seems a little hinky to me.

  6. 6
    Sko Hayes says:

    Rush Limbaugh earlier today: “Does anyone really believe that fraud didn’t happen in Wisconsin?”
    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/201104070037

  7. 7
    Turgidson says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Me too. But I’m sure they’re just doing God’s work and/or counteracting the unmistakable vote fraud of the Acorn unions of gay death. Sigh.

  8. 8
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Apparently Waukesha county “forgot” to send in the votes of a whole town, meaning there will be about 7,000 more votes for Prosser. I don’t want to charge in screaming fraud, but-really? A whole town? In the most conservative part of Wisconsin?

  9. 9
    Lolis says:

    @Turgidson:

    There is going to be a statewide recount, right? If so, we may still have the votes if there were simliar errors in blue counties.

  10. 10
    Turgidson says:

    @Lolis:

    I imagine – unless these “found” votes push the margin big enough that Klop can’t ask for one anymore? I don’t know Wisconsin’s rules on recounts etc.

  11. 11
    Sko Hayes says:

    Oh, yeah, a tweet from Chris Larson (one of WI’s Dem Senators):

    Heard rumor the Waukesha County Clerk was also the tech point person for Republican caucus during the scandals 10 years ago. #wiunion

    And a tweet from one of his followers:

    Interesting: Nickolaus is also past president of the Republican Women of Waukesha http://www.waukeshagop.org/womendir.html

    and one more about the scandal Larson refers to above:

    WAUKESHA — A candidate for Waukesha County clerk is one of several caucus workers who was granted immunity from prosecution in the criminal investigation into illegal campaigning on state time.Kathy Nickolaus, 42, a Republican, said she hopes voters will accept her role in the ongoing scandal — but she can’t talk about it.
    “I can’t really say anything about the probe,” she said. “I was offered immunity and I took it.”

    cached Google article here:http://webcache.googleusercont.....google.com

  12. 12
    4tehlulz says:

    It’s like the GOP’s not even trying to be clever about their fraud.

    Though to be fair, if I knew the media would let me get away with it, I wouldn’t waste the energy either.

  13. 13
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Sko Hayes: What are “the scandals 10 years ago?”

    ETA: Oops, didn’t see that was answered in your links.

  14. 14
    joes527 says:

    OK. The possibility of fraud exists and should be guarded against. But like I said in the other thread. What we are seeing today is completely reasonable and wouldn’t even be noticed on a race that wasn’t sitting on a knife’s edge.

    Changing totals isn’t evidence of fraud.
    Klop.. (oh hell – however you spell it) pulling ahead isn’t evidence of fraud.
    Prosser pulling ahead isn’t evidence of fraud.

    7K seems like a lot of votes to find a day late. Hmmmm… almost .5% of the total vote. Yeah that does look extreme for a “mistake.” But the most likely explanation is still that this is a valid correction.

  15. 15
    Cris says:

    @Sko Hayes: Rush Limbaugh earlier today: “Does anyone really believe that fraud didn’t happen in Wisconsin?”

    All projection, all the time

  16. 16
    Turgidson says:

    I do vaguely remember that Waukesha had a bunch of outstanding precincts as the vote came in, then suddenly the AP said they were all reporting in, yet the raw vote total didn’t budge (or barely changed). That might be related to this weirdness, I suppose.

  17. 17
    MobiusKlein says:

    is it 7k votes, or 7k vote swing, implying an even larger vote total? If it was a 7k swing in a 2/3 1/3 region, that’s 21k votes found.

    Worth looking askance at always.

  18. 18
    The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik says:

    @Turgidson:

    I think as far as law goes, they can still ask for one, but it’ll only be paid for by the election board if it’s within .5%, otherwise Kloppenburg’s campaign would have to pony up the expenses.

    @MobiusKlein:

    It was a 7k gain, as the found apparently 11k more votes for Prosser, with 4k more for Kloppenburg, resulting in a net gain of 7k for Prosser.

  19. 19

    Yes, amazingly, 7,000 lost votes were just found in one of the most strongly pro-Prosser counties in Wisconsin that just HAPPENS to be run by a Republican county clerk who just HAPPENS to want to, among other things, save all the vote totals on her own personal computer:

    http://www.jsonline.com/news/w.....95954.html

    Jesus. They could have at least TRIED to make this look believable.

  20. 20
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Turgidson: I wondered if some of those were absentee votes. Like once they finished the Election Day count, they reported to the AP; then they went looking for the envelopes for the absentees, opened them — and there wouldn’t be very many in some of these localities — and then added them in. That way just a handful of new votes would get added to the tally, but the precinct would have fully “reported.” But I have no idea if that’s how it works.

  21. 21
    MobiusKlein says:

    @The Political Nihilist Formerly Known As Kryptik: seeing the info from The National Reveiw it’s full of estimates.

    We’ll wait for the actual results.

  22. 22
    Judas Escargot says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Were there any specifics on what was meant by “computer error”?

    That’s vague enough to… stink a little.

  23. 23
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @August J. Pollak: Thx, I just threw that up on my Facebook wall.

  24. 24
    lllphd says:

    @joes527:

    quite so on all counts. except that a republican with her history, and her knowledge of computers, ‘hoarding’ the results on her PC is actually highly suspect.

    the easy fix would be to launch – perhaps not so much a recount per se (tho one in stealth) – but an investigation into her computer and her spreadsheet software and double check all precinct reports with her computer’s record.

    perhaps that could be done at that county level without the costly statewide recount. and given the particulars of this case, it stinks to high heaven and deserves closer scrutiny.

  25. 25
    JPL says:

    They just found 7000 extra votes for Prosser…
    Here’s a live feed.. http://www.620wtmj.com/news/livestream

  26. 26
    lllphd says:

    wow; just visited the waukesha cty clerk’s website, and election results are not posted by precinct, just totals.

    the public needs to see precinct numbers; where does one go to do that?

  27. 27
    joes527 says:

    @August J. Pollak:

    Yes, amazingly, 7,000 lost votes were just found in one of the most strongly pro-Prosser counties in Wisconsin that just HAPPENS to be run by a Republican county clerk…

    All signs there point as strongly to ineptitude as to malfeasance. The clear is clearly full of herself and confident that she alone knows what is what. (a sure sign of stupidity)

    But … “finding” ~1% of the state wide vote bears looking into. I’d assume that the recount will be based on the data from the precincts and not the county roll up that got passed on. (is there a paper trail at the precincts, or are these voting machines that just say: “trust me?”)

    If a lone county clerk is messing with the roll up numbers … that would be easy enough to spot No one could possibly be stupid enough to try that

  28. 28
    JPL says:

    OMG…”It was human error…maybe some macros in the program”…

    I had to turn off the feed.. sorry

  29. 29
    JC says:

    Back in the thread on the election, we predicted this. In fact, we joked about it.

    If necessary, Waukesha can still add in the 30 precincts it keeps squirreled away for a rainy day

    Give it up for L Ron Obama!

  30. 30
    lllphd says:

    ok, i’m beginning to feel kathy nickolaus’s personal computer needs to be impounded and investigated.

    i’d rather prosser win honestly than let this blatant oddity go unchecked.

  31. 31
  32. 32
    Emerald says:

    This doesn’t matter. We got the emotional shot in the arm we needed yesterday. Even if it isn’t fraud at all, it looks, um, somewhat non-innocent.

    Ergo, this little “whoopsies! forgot a whole town!” moment only makes people angry, when if we’d lost yesterday, we’d have been seriously disappointed.

    Angry equals adrenaline. Disappointed equals defeat.

    I’ll take angry. There’s more work to do.

  33. 33
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Judas Escargot: This is the first I have heard of any of this. If I find anything out, I will send up a flare.

  34. 34
    PaulW says:

    Okay, I worked on an election once in 2002 (in Florida no less). If I’m reading these reports correctly, the vote totals were being placed on someone’s personal computer?! That is, to my knowledge, illegal as hell. Only approved voting machines with proper security (which itself has been questioned from time to time with these new machines) should be tabulating results…

    The FBI and federal elections office better be racing to Wisconsin before the gov’t shutdown kicks in.

  35. 35
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @JPL:

    ”It was human error…maybe some macros in the program”

    It wasn’t me, it was Clippy the Microsoft Office assistant! “It seems you are trying to count some votes, would you like some help with that?”

  36. 36
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @PaulW:

    If I’m reading these reports correctly, the vote totals were being placed on someone’s personal computer?!

    The link August J. Pollak posted was in reference to a previous election, and it seemed to indicate that it was investigated back then, but I have no idea what current practice is.

  37. 37
    JC says:

    FlipYrWhig,

    I had a quiet guffaw reading that, indeed I did…

  38. 38
    Judas Escargot says:

    @JPL:

    …maybe some macros in the program…

    Let me guess: SUM(VOTE_COUNT, 7000).

    I shall now be quiet until more info comes in.

  39. 39
    The Populist says:

    @joes527:

    If the people of Wisconsin lose this, they’d better turn out in full force to sweep every one of these fucks out of office. Once they do that, investigate this lady and determine if she willfully committed fraud on behalf of David Prosser.

  40. 40
    JPL says:

    @FlipYrWhig: It was the republican macros..
    She also said they didn’t have problems in the last election…

  41. 41
    joes527 says:

    @PaulW:

    the vote totals were being placed on someone’s personal computer?

    Personal Computer as in: “Hi! I’m a PC.” Not Personal Computer as in computer-that-is-personal-property-of-someone.

    I’m pretty sure that there isn’t a law that says you have to use a Mac.

  42. 42
    lllphd says:

    @Emerald:

    i disagree; it DOES matter. we could take this woman’s word for it, and with her assistants there, it may well be true, but did they look like they knew squat about computers? i mean, i’d like to see the reported results from every precinct, verified by each precinct captain, checked against her spreadsheet. this is what needs to happen. if it checks out, great; let prosser have it, but only if it’s real. we really can’t let this go without a deeper investigation.

    what could one do here? aside from requesting a recount, isn’t there some way to launch an investigation?

  43. 43
    Sko Hayes says:

    @FlipYrWhig: LOL!!

  44. 44
    Sko Hayes says:

    @FlipYrWhig: LOL!!

  45. 45
    Sko Hayes says:

    @FlipYrWhig: LOL!! Who didn’t hate that stupid “office assistant”?
    “I see you’re writing a letter. Would you like help with that?” GAAH!!

  46. 46
    joes527 says:

    @The Populist:

    If the people of Wisconsin lose this, they’d better turn out in full force to sweep every one of these fucks out of office.

    If the people of Wisconsin lose this, then they have demonstrated that they (or at least 50.5% of them) LIKE the shit in their shit sandwich.

  47. 47
    lllphd says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    just the voice i was hoping to see here. could an investigation be in order here? shouldn’t that computer be impounded? i mean, doesn’t this raise enough questions that a deeper inquiry should be launched without just taking this woman’s word for it? especially under all these several questionable circumstances?

  48. 48
    lllphd says:

    @PaulW:

    not a federal election, so not sure that sentiment applies.

  49. 49
  50. 50
    BruinKid says:

    Guys, it doesn’t look like fraud here, just human error. The local paper in Brookfield DID report the results on Wednesday; they just weren’t factored into the statewide count. That city had 53% turnout on Tuesday. If that seems high, it actually isn’t for that city. 79% of the city showed up to vote in the Walker/Barrett gubernatorial race last November. And 53% isn’t even the highest turnout they’ve had for a lazy spring election in just the last 10 years.

    Nate Silver has been trying to explain these numbers make MORE sense than the Tuesday night results.

    Tweet #1:

    The numbers being floated about missing votes in Brookfield seem reasonable. Would be ~11% of Waukesha vote, same as in Prez election in 08.

    Tweet #2:

    Before missing votes were found, Waukesha’s turnout had been 7.5% of WI’s. Versus 7.8% in Pres ’08, 8.7% in Gov ’10, 8.7% in Feb. election.

    Tweet #3:

    So I don’t think there’s any conspiracy here … Waukesha’s vote total had been slightly lower than you might expect.

    The grumbling now should be about that Republican County Clerk losing her job for her sheer incompetence, but it doesn’t look like fraud here.

  51. 51
    Sko Hayes says:

    @August J. Pollak: That is an incredible article.
    I loved one of the comments:

    for the last two days i have read post after post of you half-witted neo-fascists talk about boxes of ballots in vans. turns out you were right! however, they were not in the van of a union thug, they were in the back of
    a neo-fascist CEO’s lexus!

  52. 52
    lllphd says:

    @joes527:

    god knows there oughta be!

  53. 53
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @joes527:

    For the rich people in Sensenbrenner/Ryan-land, it isn’t a shit sandwich: It’s a tasty sundae of Fuck The Poor with a plutocratic cherry on top. and without them Prosser would have lost big.

    I think the “People vote against their self-interest because they’re idiots” meme doesn’t tell the whole story. The rich are voting very much in their self-interests. I’d love to see an income-based breakdown of who voted for who here.

  54. 54
    a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q) says:

    Just shoot me. It would be kinder.

  55. 55
    Mnemosyne says:

    @BruinKid:

    Oddly, I think I would still prefer a full recount of the county to determine if fraud occurred than rely on Nate’s statistical models. Call me old-fashioned.

  56. 56
    djork says:

    Reason number 11234357876 to never vote for a Republican, even in local races.

  57. 57
    Karen says:

    Not surprised. Would have been surprised if it didn’t happen. Now the drumbeat for her to concede will start.

    Basically, the gloves are off. Democrats will never ever win anything again. Either the GOP will cheat their fucking asses off or other fraud and/or if the Dems really win, the GOP won’t concede and it’ll be a waiting game.

    What I want to know is, why are all the gloves coming off now? Is it because they want to make damn sure Obama never wins? Or is it because they greedy pigs got tired of waiting for when the time was right and they finally realized that they could do whatever the fuck they wanted to and would be accountable to NO ONE.

    GOP rapes a girl? The girl had no business saying no.

    GOP kills someone in a car accident? The other car had no business following the rules of the road because the only rule that matters is that GOP are right all the time?

    It’s really going to take someone to talk me down from this because the way it seems now to me, we’re in anarchy, not a democracy.

  58. 58
    lllphd says:

    @BruinKid:

    i’m so sorry; i’m a huge nate fan, but i’m not sure i buy his logic. where is it written that waukesha turnout would be the same as 08 presidential? that actually does NOT make sense to me.

    aside from those stats – which are way too abstract and hypothetical in any case – the actual circumstances of this situation are just beyond suspect. there needs to be an investigation. especially in light of this woman’s history with secrecy and with ignoring audits.

  59. 59
    jah says:

    looks like the clerk is just extremely incompetent. all of the ballots should still be intact, as all of the state (i’m pretty sure?) uses optical scan, so there are paper ballots available for verification. how she doesn’t double check the results on Tuesday night before sending them off to the AP i have no clue.

  60. 60
    joes527 says:

    @Karen: There is a posting the other thread about how to DECAFFEINATE your tea. I think you should try it.

    Seriously.

  61. 61
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Karen:

    What I want to know is, why are all the gloves coming off now? Is it because they want to make damn sure Obama never wins?

    A lot of people say that it’s because we elected a black guy and that’s just made everyone crazy, but I think it would have happened even if we elected a white guy. The modern iteration of Republican craziness-the sort of blatantly corrupt, lying about everything, take no prisoners, salt the earth craziness-started when Clinton was prez, but before it could really work itself into a maelstrom, Bush got elected. So it was basically just lying in wait. It will die down when a Republican gets elected next, and rev back up when the next Democrat takes office.

  62. 62
    Mnemosyne says:

    @lllphd:

    I’d also be curious to see what Nate has to say about Milwaukee County, which apparently had a noticeably lower turnout than previous elections, going against the trend in most of the state.

  63. 63
    The Populist says:

    @joes527:

    Amen buddy. I guess I was trying to be nice. Sooner or later people will tire of this kind of treatment. The 60s swept out a lot of these people and I can see it happening in the not so distant future.

    People will soon realize they can watch all the reality TV they want, but if their kids are doomed to not getting into college due to budget cuts, grandma can’t pay for that operation due to no medicare (or vouchers that won’t be enough to cover shit) and jobs are going away even more since daddy might be the local architect but his work is being outsourced to India where architects make less.

    You see, people may change their thinking when they realize the “american dream” was outsourced around the world and they got left holding a bunch of lies. People tend to be “conservative” in many areas until they realize that they will never be accepted by the richer class nor does any of that “personal responsibility, take care of ourselves” b.s. is crap.

    When Europe continues to see growth and America continues to drown in joblessness, debt and desperation THEN people will demand what they see in other places. Problem is, they will have lost a lot of the means to get this change thanks to Citizens United making sure the GOP are in full control, if there is voter fraud nobody will investigate unless a dark horse dem wins.

    You see, I have no faith that if people aren’t caring now about these issues (and thus they don’t care about their kids btw) to vote even in matters like this, they will find out that the system will be further rigged to keep the GOP in power for a LOOOONNNNNGGGG time.

    The youth will then fight back but will it truly change when corporations are people too?

  64. 64
    losingtehplot says:

    So if people (i.e. mostly white men) show up in the Wisconsin polling places tomorrow screaming about being disenfranchised, etc., they better be wearing button-down shirts, ties, chino pants, prolly slightly overweight, with good haircuts, jus’ like good ole Florida voting reinforcers c. Bush 2001. If not, then they’ll just be subversers, pro-choice, pro-union, and fully deserving of being ignored, no matter how many numbers of dodgy votes they pull out of a top hat, find under the couch, etc. Voter fraud (or oops, sudden discovery of missing votes): IOKIYR.

  65. 65
    The Populist says:

    @lllphd:

    Walker’s cronies won’t do it. This is Ohio 2008 all over again.

  66. 66
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @lllphd: I am sure it will be investigated. The stakes are high and the numbers are close. Beyond that, I really have now idea right now.

  67. 67
    quaint irene says:

    Seven thousand seems a little hinky to me.

    I think Professor Snape helped conjure them up.

  68. 68
    BruinKid says:

    @lllphd: Oh, for that, what Nate means is that the city of Brookfield accounted for 11% of all of Waukesha County’s votes in 2008. That number should still be around the same. It wouldn’t make sense for one particular city to simply stop showing up to vote in comparable numbers to the rest of the county itself.

    With these 11,000 or so votes now tallied, the city again accounted for about 11% of the county’s vote total.

  69. 69
    BruinKid says:

    @Mnemosyne: Oh, definitely.

  70. 70
    lllphd says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    not to mention the fact that we don’t know how long this same woman has been waukesha’s clerk, but it appears for all those elections he lists. could be none of them are kosher, either!

    i love stats; they’re fun. but omigod, they are sooo abstract. and if you get too thick in the weeds of them, they start telling you things that are so “true” about nothing that makes any sense.

    like i said, i love nate, but methinks he needs to rethink some of this.

  71. 71
    The Populist says:

    @Karen:

    Hate to agree, but I feel somewhat the way you do. I feel like something happened we just aren’t quite seeing yet.

    I have always stuck by the idea that Obama’s doormat tendencies became worse when the GOP trounced the dems in the midterms. I can see Obama thinking that he tried hard to get health care for people and after all the work and fights, he lost.

    I can see him just shrugging and saying “why should I put myself out there anymore when the dems won’t keep the very party that left me this mess are now in full control of the house?”

    I know somebody will say poppycock, but seriously, I see it in him. Why should he work so hard to give the GOP a target when his own “base” doesn’t care enough to keep the GOP from taking control?

  72. 72
    The Populist says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Who will do this? The Attorney Gen is a GOP stooly, Holder won’t do shit because Obama will refuse to rock the boat.

    This is more fucked…I am not a pessimist but I am losing faith day after day.

  73. 73
    North_O_49 says:

    @BruinKid:

    The only potential flaw in Silver’s numbers and statisitical models is that they assume numbers reported in for previous elections were correct (or correct-ish)… How long has Nickolaus had this post?

  74. 74
    lllphd says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    yup. and a full recount isn’t really necessary. surely the precinct totals are listed somewhere that are not solely on the nickolaus PC; i assume this because that would be necessary for them to do the canvass she referenced in her press conference. fine; release those lists to the public. not so hard.

    i was earlier here complaining that her website only lists totals and not precinct totals. evidently, in the link august posted early on, i think, there is a reference to the fact that she stopped local listings, saying it wasn’t her responsibility.

    this, folks, is highly suspect. if the precinct numbers are listed, or even town numbers, anyone can go online and add them up (this is as it should be everywhere, and i can’t for the life of me figure why it’s not). as it is, we have to trust her figures. given her history, we should trust her why exactly?

    AUDIT!!! not recount, but a simple audit.

  75. 75
    The Populist says:

    Let me walk something back, I will have some faith when I see some of the GOP Senators from WI get recalled. Show me that people of WI and you have me back on board the bus.

    Until then, I feel like I am being run over by a bus of apathy and it’s creeping into my thinking everyday.

    I am now that annoying guy who shrugs (holding back some tears) and says “they get what they vote for…oh well”.

    And Oh well is how I feel. I hope the people of WI enjoy dwindling standards of living. Blame Obama, blame the dems but the reality is that people need to wake up and realize the “both parties do it” crap needs to stop. Clinton went along with NAFTA and other b.s. exporting of jobs pacts. But if people were passionate to get MONEY out of politics by demanding more from their reps, then this is to be expected of pols.

    The right hides nothing from us when it comes to being the party of rich folks. Until the dipshits in the middle and on the moderate right side wake up and realize that their kids are screwed, their way of life is going bye bye and their rights are disappearing…it will get worse before it gets better.

  76. 76
    The Populist says:

    Oh and when I refer to way of life, it’s not a tea bag race thing. I am talking about this idea that people who are middle class think they can be super rich one day too. I work hard and have done well for myself but I am far from rich.

  77. 77
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @The Populist: Government Accountability Board. A nonpartisan gov’t agency in charge of election oversight.

    Edited to fix name error.

  78. 78
    lllphd says:

    @Karen:

    What I want to know is, why are all the gloves coming off now?

    perhaps a ray of hope in all this, i’d say the biggest reason is that they are really really a’scared.

    when you look at the numbers – young folks leaning toward progressive policy, registering dem, etc. – not to mention all the wedge issues falling by the wayside (gay marriage, pot, etc.), they will never have the numbers to win honestly.

    they’ve known this for a long time. since nixon, actually. hence the exponential increase in dirty tricks. and hence the authoritarian justification for doing whatever it takes to win because they’re in the right. and of course, god wants them to win.

    but honestly, bottom line – they are scared. that’s why they’re resorting to being bullies and cowards and mean-spirited sadists. they’re just eat up with fear.

    never forget that. it might even provoke some pity for them.

  79. 79
    lllphd says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    agreed; and what was lying in wait was this deep-seated fear. they are petrified because they know they’re wrong. that’s why they have to bully; they’re cowards.

  80. 80
    lllphd says:

    @The Populist:

    good point about walker, and would it even be appropriate for the state to act at this point at this local level?

    but who would do it? evidently the waukesha county board had trouble with nickolaus more than once, ignoring audits and smirking at discussions of her secrecy. that might be the only route.

    surely there are democrats in that county who could launch a demand for an investigation?

  81. 81
    lllphd says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    thanks for your input. repeating my just posted comment, perhaps democrats in waukesha county demanding an investigation?

  82. 82
    lllphd says:

    @BruinKid:

    ah; i get it now. thx.

  83. 83
    The Populist says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Okay, then we shall see. I have no faith they will do anything about it but I now cross my fingers and wait.

  84. 84
    lllphd says:

    @The Populist:

    hokay, apologies for putting this out there for the third time now, but it would seem to me that dems in waukesha cty would be the ones to demand an audit, at the very least.

    someone needs to be impounding that damn computer! ASAP!!

  85. 85
    lllphd says:

    @North_O_49:

    we agree on this point, totally. i can’t find dates on her position, but it seems like she’s been around a while.

  86. 86
    lllphd says:

    @The Populist:

    i’m not at all sure why you would think it’s “apathy” after all that impassioned protesting in WI, for chrissake! get a grip.

    no, instead, what’s going on is polarization. for each of those impassioned cheeseheads there is a dedicated blockhead repug, all gnarled up in fear and loathing. lots of canceling each other out, and you get down to the ‘remains of the day’ if you will. one side or the other decides with just this relative handful of votes that are the difference.

    this does NOT mean the WI dems are apathetic; it only means the repugs are just as actively entrenched in their position.

    really, to use the word apathy after all those inspiring protests, …tsk tsk; you should be ‘shamed, pops.

  87. 87
    Emerald says:

    @lllphd: Of course it needs to be investigated–and frankly, I’m betting on real fraud. Sorry, but I think you don’t just forget a whole town.

    However, my point is that we had to win that election to keep the emotional high going. We did that. Got a great shot in the arm yesterday. Now we can get mad, and hence, even.

    But whether it’s fraud or not, you’re never going to get most people to believe it wasn’t, so the Rs lose again. Their incompetence just turns Wisconsin ever bluer.

  88. 88
    lllphd says:

    oh sheez; i’m down to talking to myself here!

    how embarrassing. i’ll scurry off to bed now.

    :-)

  89. 89
    lol chikinburd says:

    @Emerald: Now to gain reassurance that Wisconsin “turn[ing] … ever bluer” will actually make any difference in future official election tallies.

  90. 90
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Emerald: I agree with you, but I also know that I might be grabbing onto what you are saying as a life raft. You are definitely right that over 7000 just being “misplaced” is never going to sit well with people and I am really fucking pissed right now. This process will have to shake itself out. In good Wisconsin news, people filed enough signatures to get a recall rolling for another R senator.

  91. 91
    Chris G says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: This. No final victories, no final defeats. If we win, great. If we lose, we dust ourselves off, study the loss, and study it for the next round. Keep calm and carry on.

  92. 92

    This reeks. I guess it might be true, but it just smells, so I’m pretty damned dubious. After the last 10 years, I can’t believe stuff like this when it happens and helps the Republicans.

  93. 93
    Cacti says:

    It just looks like incompetence to me. Nothing fishy here, nothing at all.

    Not the least bit suspicious that the most Repub-friendly county would “discover” 7,000 lost votes mere days after their guy appeared to come out on the short end.

    2000 Florida redux. If you keep it close enough to steal, they will.

  94. 94
    lllphd says:

    ok, got sucked back in while drinking my bedtime chamomile.

    and ran across this announcement that prosser has hired on two of the attorneys who rep’d bush in the bush v gore case.

    nice. not even sure there’s a recount yet, and this guy has the jack to spring for two high powered lawyers already. where does he get the money?

  95. 95
    lllphd says:

    @Emerald:

    actually, we’re agreeing more than i may have conveyed. all i disagree with is the notion that this latest detail does not matter, although i do agree with your assessment that it will ultimately only serve to keep the dems fired up.

    the way this latest detail does matter is that it offers an opportunity – yet another one – for each side to show true colors. the repugs want to win, no matter what, to hell with the voters and the votes. dems can show – even emphasize – that we are just fine if the real results show prosser is the winner, but for the sake of election integrity and the public’s need to trust the voting system, this highly questionable piece of the puzzle needs to be thoroughly investigated.

    and dems should push this hard, while being completely open to the very real possibility that prosser will be the winner.

    and i don’t think it was incompetence; i think it may well have been fraud. either way, this woman’s methods are madness and need to be investigated.

  96. 96
    lllphd says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    yeah, but rumor has it the repugs are filing against a dem soon, as well. dems may need more than just three wins to actually recover the senate.

    seriously, how would someone in waukesha cty register a complaint that would lead to an investigation of this woman’s computer and her methods? is there such a process?

  97. 97
    D-Chance. says:

    And Like That, All GOP Charges of Voter Fraud Vanished

    And Like That, All Democratic Charges of Voter Fraud Appear

    Same old same old.

  98. 98
    Cacti says:

    @lllphd:

    and dems should push this hard, while being completely open to the very real possibility that prosser will be the winner.

    And if the Repubs want to sweep it under the rug and say “nothing to see here” (which they most assuredly will), we can all shed one more impotent tear over our country sliding further into banana republic territory.

  99. 99
    lllphd says:

    @Cacti:

    well, it was really only the next day after the election, but still, it remains odd.

    and they clearly would have preferred to keep prosser in the ‘can’t lose’ column, i have no doubt.

    prosser may well have won, but this whole thing does stink to high heaven. were it the case that this waukesha clerk had a pristine reputation, was highly respected and transparent and had never presented any previous questions regarding her methods, then i don’t think i’d question this story; stuff happens.

    but combined with her history regarding this very type of problem, given these very concerns have been raised before and recently, the situation demands scrutiny.

  100. 100
    Ron says:

    I’m mildly suspicious but this seems on the face of it to be more a case of incompetence than fraud. OTOH, I would like to be able to challenge votes stored on the county clerk’s personal computer.

  101. 101
    lllphd says:

    @Cacti:

    and why should we allow them to sweep this under the rug?

    i hope i didn’t leave that impression. the fact of the matter is that prosser might well have really really won this. the polls were close, it’s just a fact. i’m just saying it’s more important to push for election integrity than for election wins. that’s what separates us from the knuckle draggers, isn’t it?

  102. 102
    Chris says:

    @Turgidson:

    Well, isn’t that convenient. Prosser gets the lead, by just enough votes to dodge a recount, assuming that the local Republican hack county official who sounds *totally* high-minded and just “found” thousands of votes on a computer in her house, isn’t just completely fucking making shit up.

    Haven’t Republicans passed laws to counter this kind of voter fraud, or do those not apply to white conservatives?

  103. 103
    Cacti says:

    @D-Chance.:

    An elections official tampering with totals would be election fraud, not voter fraud.

  104. 104
    lllphd says:

    @Ron:

    go here and here for good reasons to be suspicious of more than incompetence.

    after all, this woman brags about her 15 years of computer programming experience as an excuse to keep everything on her computer. and top secret. ignoring audits.

    stinks.

  105. 105
    Cacti says:

    @lllphd:

    the fact of the matter is that prosser might well have really really won this. the polls were close, it’s just a fact. i’m just saying it’s more important to push for election integrity than for election wins. that’s what separates us from the knuckle draggers, isn’t it

    You didn’t give that impression. I’m just a pessimist and figure that’s how it will play out. Republicans don’t care a whit about integrity or the appearance of propriety. They care that these new votes put their guy ahead, no matter how dubious the circumstances.

  106. 106
    rikyrah says:

    It’s time for the Justice Department to come in and investigate and to get the bottom line.

  107. 107

    @D-Chance.:

    And Like That, All Democratic Charges of Voter Fraud Appear

    It’s not our fault that nothing else notably fishy happened before this.

    (edit: in THIS race, obviously)

  108. 108
    OzoneR says:

    !!!!!

    From DailyKos

    i blame the WI Democrats (2+ / 0-)
    for not holding back a town or two for just such an emergency…

    What do you think Daley did in 1960? (2+ / 0-)
    He held back most of the Chicago returns until the downstate returns were in. Dems used to know how to play hardball back when they actually used to win.

    I have to agree (1+ / 0-)
    maybe they had the Republicans number all along and were just fighting fire with fire – not saying that’s right, mind you. When one side cheats and the other doesn’t, and there are no consequences to cheating, guess who will always win?

    If this is what they mean by “fighting” count me the fuck out.,

  109. 109
    Tom says:

    Brookfield is the one city in a group of areas that voted for McCain in 2008, but none of these voted for McCain like Brookfield. Feeding conspiracy theorists, this is the only city in this grouping, which has enough voters to significantly impact this election. http://higley1000.com/archives/121

  110. 110
    Corner Stone says:

    @OzoneR: We already did that Nick.
    Nothing can be done!

  111. 111
    OzoneR says:

    @Corner Stone: Don’t reply to me, I’m not interested in conversing with trolls

  112. 112
    lllphd says:

    @Cacti:

    Republicans don’t care a whit about integrity or the appearance of propriety. They care that these new votes put their guy ahead, no matter how dubious the circumstances.

    could not agree more. all the more reason for dems to push for this case in the interest of election integrity, whatever the ultimate result might be.

  113. 113
    Corner Stone says:

    @OzoneR: Maybe you’d like it better if the adults were talking?

  114. 114
    lllphd says:

    @rikyrah:

    are you thinking the WI DOJ? not likely; a walker stranglehold there.

    the US DOJ? not sure they have jurisdiction in statewide races? anyone know for sure? does this even fall under the voting rights act or (gasp) HAVA?

  115. 115
    Ron says:

    @lllphd: I believe there are paper ballots in WI, so it should be easy enough to check.

  116. 116
    lllphd says:

    @Ron:

    yup; sure hope the dems push for some kind of investigation of that suspicious computer.

  117. 117
    Ron says:

    @lllphd: Oh it deserves to be investigated for sure. I was never suggesting we just take her word for it.

  118. 118
    wonkie says:

    I want reiterate what has already been said: election officials never,ever put election data into their own computer, especially if the only access to the computer is through a password know only to the offical that owns the computer. At a very minimum that auditor needs to be fired.

    My mother was a county auditor. Elections have to handle data so that at every step from the voter to the final total every vote can be tracked and there is a professional chain of custody, kind of like the chian of custody of evidance in a crime scene. it is the auditor’s job to handle data so that there is no opportuity for fraud or the apperance of fraud.

    My own guess is that htere wasn’t fraud, It’s a wealthy area, very Rethuglican, lots of motivated voters, high turn out. She may very well have forgotten to save the data she was sent. Howevfer, by insertig her own computer and her own password iot the process she gave the apperance of fraud, which should get her canned.

    More likely to get her a promotion, however.

  119. 119
    lllphd says:

    @Ron:

    from joklo herself, an open records request.

    whew; was wondering what remedy was available to the voters on this.

  120. 120
    Bobby Thomson says:

    When it comes to real vote fraud, Republicans don’t fuck around. They don’t pay retail.

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