The ever clueless McMegan on Wisconsin unions:
There’s just one problem with this: if the union hasn’t managed to secure anything in the way of extra wages, benefits, or other concessions for the workers–if it is really true that all these things are close to the minimum required simply to attract workers–then who cares whether the union survives or not? What “power” is being taken away?
Gee, I wonder why people in a union might want to have the ability to bargain collectively even if they’re not asking for wage increases this very moment? Republican politicians have never shown any hostility to public workers; conservatives never have sexual fantasies about forcing teachers to “absorb the pain”.
While we’re at it, I wonder why African-Americans felt they had to form groups like the NAACP and the SNCC to fight for civil rights. Couldn’t they just have argued — calmly, civilly, seriously — as individuals? Assuming Hayekian principles, shouldn’t the free market have taken care of all of that?
Zifnab
Rich White People never had to form a collective bargaining group to get what they wanted. They just asked Congress very nicely and donated hundreds of millions of dollars into campaign coffers.
Why can’t poor ethnic minorities and blue collar workers do the same thing? Just sit down with your Congressman over a cup of hot coffee and calmly spell out your stated desires and requests. Then offer him a sweet retirement gig at your multi-billion dollar industry.
It’s so easy, anyone should be able to do it.
agrippa
If she actually has to ask those questions, she can never understand any answer.
Ash Can
Like I said in the last thread, this girl has no idea what she’s talking about. About anything. Ever. She’s just guessing her way through life, and she’s been ridiculously lucky so far.
Susan of Texas
Things are moving a little too fast for McArdle. She hasn’t had time to read everyone else and find out what to think.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Re-post: Sully does the research I’m too lazy to do– I yam what I yam, and it’s his job– and can find no mention of abolishing collective bargaining in Walker’s campaign. So take BoBo et al can take their “he was elected to do this” crap and cram it right back up the ass they pulled it out of.
Zifnab
Also, I can’t wait to hear what the Chamber of Commerce thinks about people lobbying their Congresspeople and collectively bargaining.
matoko_chan
Hayek was wrong. Do you think Hayek and Oakeshott will land in the dustbin of history along with conservatism?
Poor Sully.
Mudge
Sort of like McMegan’s brain, since it doesn’t do anything useful, why keep it? The logic has wings. Since we don’t use our nuclear arsenal, let’s destroy it all…
cmorenc
CNN has seen fit to run a piece by John Avlon “CNN Contributor” at their website that could have been written by McMegan or even Gov Walker, to the effect that the existence of public-sector unions themselves ARE the problem, the money these unions are spending on political action is “repurposed” public money, and that the left/minority party is “freaking out” with “unhinged” protests egged on by “partisan cable TV opinion anchors”.
No mention whatever in this CNN piece of what affiliations Mr. Avlon has to anyone, or even who he is beyond a “CNN Contributor”.
NobodySpecial
Point of order! Describing a phenomena that does not exist in nature.
danimal
This is starting to look like the “Americans are waking up to the fact that the rich and powerful are using them for chumps” moment I’ve yearned for during the past 20 years. The right-wing (and libertarian) arguments are just not coherent, and a lot of middle-class Americans are seeing the power grab for what it is.
McMegan is trying her best, but there just isn’t a good argument there. Without unions, the governor would lay off thousands of workers AND eliminate benefits.
NobodySpecial
@cmorenc: From the wiki:
Can you say, ‘setup’?
Roger Moore
Could it possibly be the power to keep the cuts to a minimum, McMegan? There’s every indication that Republicans would love to cut salaries and positions more than they do, so minimizing the pain is a worthwhile goal.
I’m convinced that McArdle must be on the evil side of the evil/stupid divide. Anyone who was stupid enough to make that argument seriously would have a hard time finding the power button on their computer, much less operating blogging software well enough to make a post like that one.
BGinCHI
It’s tiresome to have to say this yet again, but if one of my students made this argument, about pretty much anything, others would quickly raise their hands and crush the logic like a grape.
It’s C- to F thinking.
How did she fail to learn anything, ever?
Wait, oh, ideology.
Judas Escargot
The nerve of some people, forming groups to stick up for themselves collectively against powers much bigger than they are.
Don’t they realize that their Galtian overlords know what’s best for them?
I’m really growing to hate McMegan. Strong word but yes, hate.
Southern Beale
While we’re at it, I wonder why whenever we talk about these issues, revenue is never part of the conversation?
Walker cut corporate taxes back in January. Now he says unions need to ditch collective bargaining rights because of future budgets? Well, won’t your future budgets be just full of that trickle down revenue since you cut taxes? No? You’re saying tax cuts DON’T increase revenue then? Then why do it?
Roger Moore
@BGinCHI:
She has learned one important thing: rich people will pay good money for specious arguments supporting their ability to amass even more money. That plus the ability to make superficially coherent articles and a willingness to sell her soul for cash is all she needs to get ahead in the world. She might as well put “YHBT. YHL. HAND.” at the bottom of all her articles.
Ash Can
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: This is what I was talking about some time back when I left some comment about Sullivan writing something sensible, then running completely off the rails for a while, then, out of the blue, writing something sensible again. I can’t completely write him off as worthless as long as he’s going to have his lucid moments, but his swings make my ass tired. Nevertheless, credit where credit is due, and it’s nice to see someone among the gasbag class finally being honest about this issue.
RSA
Me, I wonder why people might want to have health insurance even though they’re not sick.
Baud
But these unions are so greedy. We already gave them Labor Day, even though we still don’t have Corporation Day. When do we say enough already?
Dave N.
The unions also protect public workers from the retribution of their higher-ups. I personally know people who have had their jobs threatened and their departments losing funding after having written and land use violation for a county board member.
Ash Can
@NobodySpecial: Further point of order! “Phenomena” is the plural form of “phenomenon.”
/pet peeve
Suffern ACE
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes, but you assume that voters do the electing. Brooks does not share that assumption.
Stillwater
McMegan is saying that since they’re already agreeing to work for the lowest possible wages/benefits, that agreement is a non-functional, useless dangler. So why not get rid of it?
But the argument can be turned on its head: if it’s a useless non-functional dangler, then why not just let them retain a false illusion that CB rights actually matter?
fasteddie9318
Hey, sorry to change the subject, but for some reason on the mobile site any text that includes a link is being displayed in white, which means invisible against a white background.
danimal
@Baud: Coming soon to a wingnut meme near you: Corporation Day. Every year, on Ronald Reagan’s birthday, the country gathers together to celebrate our most important person: the Corporation.
It’s an idea so stupid I’m shocked the wurlitzer hasn’t picked it up yet.
BGinCHI
@Ash Can: Don’t even get me started on “panini.”
jwb
@danimal: However, they control the media, and on the point of unions, even those usually somewhat to the left of center, like the NY Times, are not at all reliable. Bobo’s position on this is much closer to Times ownership than is Krugman’s. So we’re fighting in an even more difficult media environment than usual. The media was initially caught offguard by Wisconsin, but you can see that they are starting to rally the troops and it’s going to be a very hard slog.
Roger Moore
@RSA:
And I wonder why rich people care about having money they’re not spending at the moment. They shouldn’t mind if the government takes it from them.
Morbo
@danimal: It’s because every day is Corporation Day.
GeneJockey
Wait – let me see if I understand this.
On the one hand, public employee unions are too strong, and have made things too good for their members at the expense of everyone else.
On the other hand, they have agreed to concessions, so they bring no benefits to their members.
Is it just me, or are these two positions mutually exclusive?
NonyNony
@Roger Moore:
the evil/stupid divide is a myth. Evil and stupid exist on independent axes – think of a cartesian system where the x-axis is ‘evilness’ and the y-axis is ‘stupidness’ and you’ll be closer to the truth. Megan happens to lie up in the upper right quadrant – she’s both evil and stupid – all the more evil because the success in her life is almost 100% attributable to who she is and what family she was born to, and all the more stupid because she is convinced that she’s done it all herself (anyone born to privilege who can non-ironically blog under the name “Jane Galt” with all the baggage that contains is self-evidently fairly stupid).
Or if you prefer, you can think of it like the old AD&D alignment system. Megan is “Stupid Evil” (“Evil Stupid”?). People like the Koch brothers are “Smart Evil” (“Evil Smart”?), but just because people like that exist doesn’t mean there isn’t room for people who are both stupid and evil.
Martin
If you’ve never shot an intruder with your firearm, then who cares whether the 2nd amendment survives or not? What “power” is being taken away?
Good golly, this is easy.
Omnes Omnibus
@BGinCHI: Wasn’t he a 19th century violinist?
Stillwater
@GeneJockey: Is it just me, or are these two positions mutually exclusive?
Not if you start the argument by assuming your conclusion. Conservative reasoning is an ascending spiral that never touches ground.
BGinCHI
@Omnes Omnibus: Oh, I thought he invented melted cheese.
curious
who cares whether the union survives or not? this question was actually published more than a week into the protests? and with a triumphant “there’s just one problem with this,” as though columbo or encyclopedia brown just blew the case wide open?
please just stop.
Ash Can
@BGinCHI: It always gasses me how few people pronounce “bruschetta” correctly, also too.
kd bart
As I wrote elsewhere, part of the advantage of being a conservative hack is that they’ll always being a think tank willing to provide you a paycheck to write utter crap.
patrick II
A classic tactic of conflict is to divide the enemy. In the case of the oligarchs running this country, the enemy is the rights of working people, so they use propaganda and fear to divide us into black against white, union v. non-union, public workers v. private, everybody against mexicans, etc. Those types of tactics appeal to the emotions — mostly fear. Another tactic is to appeal to the intellect. It is even better for oligarchs when we divide ourselves because we have some perverted idea of how the world should work. To encourge this our modern aristocrats propogate philosophies idolizing Hayek and Rand and Libertarianism that encourages each person to stand alone, while of course the rich themselves do not stand alone. The are organized into corporations and create foundations like Cato, and go to Koch sponsored meetings where they together can plan their next steps to break the less powerful into the powerless with their drive to weaken by isolation.
Libertarianism is an intellectual trap. An individual cannot stand up against the united, long term plans to suck every penny out of each individual prole they see. Our efforts have to be organized and strong labor unions give us the best chance to not live the lives of fear and economic solitude the oligarchs wish for us.
different church-lady
Well hell, why even have a legislature to represent the people? Why don’t we just have every individual citizen of Wisconsin negotiate contracts with every individual worker?
kay
She’s just mindlessly parroting Lane, in a “subtle” way, one that cleverly includes rhetorical questions!
All conservative pundits say the same things on each and every issue, in 40,000 slightly different ways. They could all be replaced with one conservative pundit, in the interest of efficiency.
Herbal Infusion Bagger
McMegan is gunning to be the Peggy Noonan of the 2030’s. Clueless, incoherent, but with a solid gig at the WSJ. She’s done her market research, and knows the Coulter-style market for shrieking harridans is overcrowded. (Heck, even Coulter’s heart’s not in it these days.) But Nooner’s keeps her gig despite lack of talent. That’s what McMegan’s after.
Watch out Amity Schales: McMegan’s after your job of producing gliberatarian word-salads of econ-buzzwords with minimal research.
Citizen_X
We’ve never used an awful lot of our weaponry. Guess we can just sell off our nukes to, oh, whoever, right?
shortstop
@Ash Can: I don’t mind when they mispronounce it, but I do mind when they “correct” me.
Poopyman
“I dreamed I saw Doug Hill last night…”
Oh wait. I did see Doug Hill.
Anyway, can I ask a McMegan question here? I enjoy seeing her get bashed as much as the next hippie, but isn’t there a way to do something more constructive at the same time, like getting her fired or at least make her a laughingstock on the national level? I’m suffering some outrage overload, and I’d like to see some results instead of just going from one idiotic column to the next. I just have no clue how to get anyone to notice what’s patently obvious.
Anyone?
SRW1
McMegan’s slam dunk:
1. If the union hasn’t managed to secure anything in the way of extra wages then it is just channeling dues to the Democrat Party and should be decertified.
2. If the union has managed to secure anything in the way of extra wages it is sucking public finances dry and should be decertified.
Impeccable logic therefore demands that the union be decertified.
Disclaimer: No calculator needed in deduction of above conclusion.
Chet
@BGinCHI:
“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”
– Upton Sinclair
kindness
Much to my horror and disbelief I linked over to Megan’s site to tell her what I think only to find I have been blocked from commenting at the Atlantic now.
Well, I did say (on multiple occasions) that Megan was a hack. I have said Megan was lying. I have said Megan’s math wasn’t very good. But to be blocked for stating the obvious? What has (corporate media) America come to?
I will choose to use this comment blockage and blame the Unions. Yea, they are the root problem.
JM
If she had looked at the wages of state employees in states where they have no such collective bargaining rights, she wouldn’t have had to ask the question.
rikyrah
she really is too stupid for words
Very Reverend Crimson Fire of Compassion
@rikyrah: Untrue. Contemplation of her stupidity inspires all kind of word choices for me. I’ll bet you can guess several of them without trying.