Dirty Rotten Scoundrels

A reader emailed me this video, and it’s definitely worth watching:

(I really appreciate the emails and tips I’ve been getting lately. Keep ’em coming. Email me here, Twitter me here.)

Also from the inbox: this PolitFact report is worth a read. Even though Walker is playing dirty tricks, it’s important to keep facts straight. His tax cuts aren’t the root of the current budget shortfall (though they exacerbate future budget shortfalls), and according to the fact-checkers at PolitFact, there really was a shortfall this year despite reports to the contrary. The larger, more important thing to keep in mind, however, is that Walker’s attack on public unions does nothing to fix this. The unions have already agreed to work with the governor to help fix the deficit. It’s the Republicans who are playing politics and using this budget issue to take on the unions. This has nothing to do with deficits.

156 replies
  1. 1
    RalfW says:

    Thanks for picking this up. Needs some more peeps seein’ good, real anger and some truthiness.

  2. 2
    Elvis Elvisberg says:

    That clip is fantastic. Thanks for posting it.

    Thanks also for hewing to the facts here. Reality-based politics, that’s always the goal.

  3. 3
    E.D. Kain says:

    @RalfW: Yeah it’s some good ol’ fashioned righteous indignation.

  4. 4
    E.D. Kain says:

    @Elvis Elvisberg: facts are good, yes, but this would also be much easier if I was dictator.

  5. 5
    gbear says:

    My little sister lives in DePere. I hope this is her congressman.

  6. 6
    freelancer says:

    I’m so stupid. I’m already livid about what’s going on in Wisconsin, and I’m about to start Charles Ferguson’s documentary Inside Job. It’s like I’m planning to give myself a stroke or something.

  7. 7

    I’m glad you finally posted it on its own since I linked it in the last two posts, giving you credit both times. And, yes, I agree that straight-up facts are the best. There is enough to be outraged over in this scenario without embroidering the truth.

    @freelancer: Dude. You need to space your apoplexy. Take it from one who knows.

  8. 8
    RalfW says:


    Gordon Hintz represents Oshkosh area.

  9. 9
    Maude says:

    Walker really got in over his head.
    Please, please let this happen to Christie.

  10. 10
    gbear says:

    @RalfW: Oh man, Did you see on his facebook page that he was on the Geraldo Rivera show on Fox News this evening? Wonder how that went?

  11. 11
    jwb says:

    @Maude: But Walker is also a total dumbfuck, and I don’t see him retreating. This is going to be a long haul, Koch, Inc will be kicking in substantial resources, I’m sure the GOP messaging team is already on site, and I think this is going to get really nasty—perhaps an unprecedented total shutdown of the state government before this is over. I think the only outs now are if the constituents in the GOP districts yell loudly enough at their representatives and senators that it becomes clear that the legislature won’t pass the bill or the protest falls apart and the legislation passes.

  12. 12
    J. Michael Neal says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    facts are good, yes, but this would also be much easier if I was dictator.

    Sorry, I get to be dictator next. You aren’t on my list of planned executions, though, so you can breathe easy.

  13. 13
    RalfW says:

    Surprise! Breitb*rt has a ‘gotcha’ video up showing ‘doctors’ handing out ‘fake sick notes’ to Madison teachers. Like 3 highschool kids who idolize O’Keefe couldn’t figure out how to pimp this idea into a ‘sting’ video.

  14. 14
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Has anyone else seen these tweets?


    There’s a rumor that at 2 AM, Walker’s going to send in the riot cops to clean out the capital, from an anonymous source.

  15. 15
    RalfW says:

    @gbear: I don’t have cable, so didn’t see it (and really hate to even allow Fox electrons into my house) so I don’t know.

  16. 16
    gbear says:

    @RalfW: Yea, I don’t want to go watch it either.

    @Spaghetti Lee: The Mother Jones tweet was mentioned in the last two postings.
    edit: a comment on the last thread said it’s not true.

  17. 17
    jwb says:

    @RalfW: That’s the best he could come up with?

  18. 18
    Spaghetti Lee says:


    Alright, thanks. Sorry for repeating what others have said.

  19. 19
    RalfW says:

    Andy Kroll from Mother Jones is in the capitol bldg in Madison, will report if riot police show up. @AndrewKroll on the Twit for those able to stay up till 2 a.m., unlike this aging gen-Xer.

    @jwb: That’s the best he could come up with?
    I dunno. I got outta there as soon as I realized where I’d clicked to. But I assume so, since the TeaParty thing was so full of nothing today.

  20. 20
    gbear says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: I was repeating it too. I was the one who brought it up on the previous treads. I hope it is a peaceful night. Time for bed…

  21. 21
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    Do you know who else went after collective bargaining and the unions as soon as he came to power?

    Just sayin’.

  22. 22
    Yutsano says:

    Angry representative is angry. And has a big point here.

  23. 23
    freelancer says:


    I figured that I’ve already read Griftopia and am up to speed on the financial crisis, “How much worse can it get?”

    I bought copies of Griftopia and gave it away as gifts, even one to my parents. My mother looked at me like I was giving her homework, as she reads Jodi Picoult and James Patterson when she does read, and my dad isn’t a big reader. I was wondering if this doc would make the point I wanted them to hear without slogging through a book they had marginal interest in. So far, it’s riveting, and a concentrated summation of what occurred, but it gets pretty deep in the weeds as far as language and financial terms are concerned. They should be able to follow it though. Here’s hoping.


    No kidding. I just sent this and the vimeo video of the protests set to Arcade Fire to Maddow’s tipline email.

  24. 24
    opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland says:


    I was about to head to bed but it may take me a while for my blood pressure to return to normal.

  25. 25
    Martin says:

    Silly Democrat – thinks he has rights.

  26. 26
    Yutsano says:

    @freelancer: That definitely sounds like good Maddow bait. Let me know if there are any positive results. No TV and cable y’know.

  27. 27
    Ben says:

    @Maude: Christie is being really cautious right now, according to the WSJ. But we know his goals are the same.

  28. 28
    opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland says:

    @Maude: This December I took some Christmas cookies to the guy next door, and he started telling me how much he admires Christie for going after the public employees, yada yada, and then he starts telling me about California’s public employees. This is Washington, we just moved here from SoCal and mr opie jeanne worked in both the public and private sector. So have I, but he just retired as a public employee.

    I explained to him that no, private is paid better than public and half of our health and retirement benefits as public employees are paid for by us, explained that PERS had done so well until the market crashed that public entities hadn’t even been required to kick in their half for years, etc. and he says to me, “Well, it used to be that way in California but not recently, it’s just gotten out of hand.” Really?

    I said, “We only retired last December. Your information is wrong.”

  29. 29
    Ben says:

    @Yutsano: email this to Maddow!

  30. 30
    Ben says:

    If Koch brothers never went after Jane Mayer of the New Yorker, i bet Sullivan would be cheering them on.

  31. 31

    @freelancer: Hm. See your point. DVD better than book in terms of easier to engage. But still, for your own health, take a break between indignations.

  32. 32
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    A question: Is what the Wisconsin 14 doing right now illegal? I’ve got a libertarian friend of mine claiming they’re in violation of this statute: http://docs.legis.wisconsin.go...../946/II/12 and that it’s a felony and that they’ll go to prison. Is this wrong?

  33. 33
    freelancer says:


    take a break between indignations

    If I were of that mind, I wouldn’t be engaged in politics at large. I’d probably breathe easier and sleep better, but that’s just not me. I gotta be informed, it’s my lot in life.

  34. 34

    EDK if you keep this up we’ll have to get you a headband, tie-dyed shirt, and – no doubt – hair extensions.

    BTW – thanks, this deserves band width and broader play.

  35. 35
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Given that every other part of 946 has to do with accepting bribes or giving unfair advantage to your cronies, I think your libertarian friend is severely stretching the definition of “misconduct” if he thinks it applies to the current situation. Refusing to appear at the capitol to vote is not the same thing as accepting a bribe.

  36. 36

    If it were riding season I might have better luck ignoring this shit – as is, not only no riding but work is … well, not. Too much time.

    I’m going to play Red Dead Redemption Free Roam Hardcore now, that’ll satisfy the urge to kill something.

  37. 37
    E.D. Kain says:

    @Chuck Butcher: My hair’s getting kind of shaggy and long all on its own right now, actually…

  38. 38
    Yutsano says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: I’m guessing they’re thinking of this:

    Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law;

    and it’s pretty wide open to interpretation. And even then I doubt you could get twelve Wisconsin citizens to agree on the charge. I guess it depends on how wingnutty the Attorney General of Wisconsin is, if at all.

  39. 39

    I don’t have permission to edit my own fucking comment? with 4 minute to go?

    I have a very broad definition of riding season, but snow on the roads ain’t part of it.

  40. 40
    Spaghetti Lee says:




    But thanks for your guys’ help, although this jackass probably won’t listen.

  41. 41
    Mnemosyne says:


    I don’t think that reporting to the capitol to make up part of a quorum counts as “mandatory,” though. That’s why the quorum requirement exists — if the people who disagree with you stay away, you don’t get to vote without them.

    Any halfway decent defense attorney would get the charges dismissed PDQ, because otherwise you’re invalidating something like 500 years of parliamentary rules.

    ETA: Not that invalidating centuries of law and procedure means jack shit to the wingnuts if it looks like it could gain them a half inch of advantage over everyone else.

  42. 42
    Nick says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Is this wrong?

    Depends. if I’m reading this right, it does sound like what they’re doing could be a felony, but it also says courts cannot enforce legislative rules…I’m not sure if quorum counts as legislative rules or a legal requirement. If it isn’t considered “legislative rules,” then they’re definitely breaking the law.

  43. 43

    @E.D. Kain:

    there must be something about WP (FYWP) that is bad for conservative-ness…

    *gotten past shaggy now, can do a nice grey pony tail, short one but a pony tail, if so inclined. protest or cold weather or … fuggit thing.

  44. 44
    freelancer says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    I love RDR, but the online component is worthless to me.

  45. 45
    jwb says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Is the Attorney General a Dem or a Gooper? If the AG thought there was a case and inclined to press it, I’m sure the threat would already be out there, so call me doubtful.

  46. 46

    I’d pay good money to watch this tried out…

  47. 47
    Spaghetti Lee says:


    Gooper, apparently. I guess a lot of it depends on the situation. If the Dems end up winning this fight and the 14 become heroes, I’d think the odds of a prosecution are less.

  48. 48
    Yutsano says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: The uh-oh in my case is that the AG is a legal idiot. Vinson did not call for injunctive relief in his decision, which therefore means it’s not binding because it’s not considered settled law. But I’d love it if a bunch of kids get thrown off their parents’ insurance there now just to show how bad Republican rule is. They might end up just as toast there as they are in California.

  49. 49
    jwb says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: I think the odds of prosecution are zero either way, though I could see a threat being used in an attempt to get the senators to come back.

  50. 50
    Nick says:


    Is the Attorney General a Dem or a Gooper? If the AG thought there was a case and inclined to press it, I’m sure the threat would already be out there, so call me doubtful.


  51. 51

    Go, Wisconsin 14! And, again, my house in an undisclosed location in MN is open to you.

  52. 52
    Nick says:


    But I’d love it if a bunch of kids get thrown off their parents’ insurance there now just to show how bad Republican rule is.

    tell me you didn’t just say that.

  53. 53

    I started out RDR online sort of non-commital. with all the downloads and a familiarity with some of the community (who to play posse with) it has gotten pretty interesting. Chat capabilities help a great deal.

    I’m Lvl 47 out of 50 now all Hardcore. I’d have quit it without all the variations available and some “mentors.” My “Friends List” is invaluable and pretty exclusive, you get there because I’ve played with you for awhile and like how you do things. Makes a big difference to the experience. As for single player mode, I vastly prefer Oblivion or Fallout 3/New Vegas to RDR.

  54. 54
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Well, what was the ultimate fate of the Texas 51? Did they go to prison? It seems like if they didn’t, for doing basically the same thing, then these guys won’t, especially in a much more liberal state where the liberal community is in a fighting mood.

  55. 55
    MikeJ says:

    Appearing for a vote isn’t mandatory. My guess is you could pull the roll call votes and find an example of most of the sitting reps missing at least one vote.

    I don’t think that the sergeant at arms has notified them that there is a quorum call, and until they’ve been notified, how can they know that anybody wants them to show up and vote?

  56. 56
    jwb says:

    @Spaghetti Lee: Different states, so different laws. You can’t extrapolate from that.

  57. 57
    Yutsano says:

    @Nick: Yep. Standing by it too. You want Republicans in charge, live with the damn fucking consequences.

    @MikeJ: Even a quorum call is not a legal mandate to vote. You can even be in the building and miss a quorum call for any number of reasons. No one can FORCE them to show up, Walker is just throwing a snit by sending the state troopers after them.

  58. 58
    jwb says:

    @MikeJ: Am I wrong in thinking that the fact that the Sergeant in Arms is vested with the power of forcing legislators to appear in the chamber means that this power has frequently been needed in the past?

  59. 59
    Ana Gama says:

    Photo from Egypt. The world watches Wisconsin.


  60. 60
    jwb says:

    @Yutsano: Is this true? I seem to recall that forcing legislators to appear in the chamber was one of the powers given to the sergeant in arms.

  61. 61
    freelancer says:

    @Ana Gama:

    I saw that on MaddowBlog. Pure Awesome.

  62. 62
    MikeJ says:

    @jwb: I don’t know about in Wisconsin. In the US congress they can “compel the Attendance of absent Members, in such Manner, and under such Penalties as each House may provide.”

  63. 63
    Yutsano says:

    @MikeJ: Pretty much that means if you report to the Sergeant At Arms you won’t be in attendance you’re not running afoul of the law. If it is true or similar in Wisconsin then there is no case. I think it would already be pursued even if the reason has to be approved. The fact that it hasn’t been is pretty telling.

  64. 64
    jwb says:

    @MikeJ: Yes, the “Quorum” article in Wikipedia has some amusing (and not so amusing) past incidents of quorum busting and “calls of the house” (compelled attendance).

  65. 65
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    Sorry for the self-pimpage, but I think we could all use a laugh at John Boehner’s expense, and I’m rather proud of this one: http://JupiterWave.deviantart......-198118589

  66. 66
    Ana Gama says:

    “Fox lies! Fox lies! Fox lies!”



  67. 67
    freelancer says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Okay, I know we went ’round and ’round last night over the efficacy of Ed Schultz, but that is pretty fucking ninja.

  68. 68
    Spaghetti Lee says:


    Aw, we didn’t mean each other no harm! Just a friendly disagreement.

  69. 69
    Spaghetti Lee says:

    @Ana Gama:

    I love the spontaneity and I get that emotions are riding high…but I just gotta think that’s not gonna go over well if it gets repeated: Shouty, angry thug assaulting dashing FOX reporter and all that. But as long as they’re reporting live, they can’t push the “Vicious union thugs tear up the wainscotting” narrative, so I guess it’s a net bonus.

  70. 70
    Xenos says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    946.12  Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony:
    (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law; or

    Is presence for determining a quorum ‘mandatory, nondiscretionary, ministerial duty’? Note that these adjectives are joined without ‘or’ between any of them, which means, I think, that they must all apply. Not knowing the legal definition of these three words in Wisconsin law, and not knowing the legislative history, you could find a fair bit of wiggle room between three. Since all three words are used, there must be a meaningful distinction between them, I would argue.

    If you can get the refusal to show for quorum vote as a implied discretionary power, I think you would be pretty clear. I would hate to try to get that past an authoritarian, wingnutty judge, though.

  71. 71
    CaliCat says:

    I’m having flashbacks to before the mid-terms when many progressives were proudly exclaiming that they were going to “stay home” on election day to punish Obama or some such crap. In fact, I distinctly remember Ed Schultz (yes, mister pro-union, “champion of the middle class” Ed Schultz) shouting about how progressives should stay home on election day because we didn’t get the public option or something like that. Well, look where we are today – where Wisconsin is today. Can we all finally agree that it’s absolutely fucking essential to keep these vicious, amoral, psychopathic Republicans out of office? What more will it take for progressives to understand that they do not have the luxury to “sit on their hands” just because they didn’t get everything they wanted on every piece of legislation? I pray the protesters win their fight in Wisconsin but if they lose, people like Big Eddie will be partially to blame.

  72. 72

    the problem with that idea of yours is that the who stayed home wasn’t progressives it was the middle. Per polling Dems and yes left Dems turned out along with the nutters on the right. The deciding balance, as per usual in mid-terms was the middle/undecided fuckwits.

    Nice try on the hippie bashing, though. Boring as it is…

  73. 73
    bemused says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:
    When the Fox reporter asked loud man if he had an opinion, loud man’s facial expression, well duh, while continuing “Fox lies”, totally cracked me up. No doubt, Fox/wingnut world will try to make that into some kind of example of very scary, dangerous liberals but it’s free speech that is not threatening violence and doing bodily harm as we have seen and heard from rightwingers countless times.

  74. 74
    DGC says:

    Gordon Hintz is my representative in the WI Assembly. Damn, I’m proud of him.

  75. 75

    Also important is that Walker is busting unions over the “Crisis” of a massive $140 million deficit.

  76. 76
    WereBear says:

    @opie jeanne, formerly known as Jeanne Ringland: “not recently, it’s just gotten out of hand.”

    This is wingnut talk for ANYTHING they don’t like–sure, in the distant past, that thing was started because we were kicking dying old people out of our way on the sidewalk, but… IT’S GOTTEN OUT OF HAND.

    My response is to say, “No, what’s gotten out of hand is the inequality of wealth in this country,” and I whip out a handy pie chart, which is all over the web, thanks to posts like ED Kain just did… and they gawp.

    They bluster then, but I know eventually they will be googling “inequality of wealth” just like I suggested.

    And while they probably will maintain their ignorance; it will take more effort.

  77. 77
    Pooh says:

    re: Wisco law “ministerial” basically ends the game, as that basically means rote tasks like making disclosures and filling out forms.

    Also, Methinks that word doesn’t mean what your “libertarian” friend thinks it means…

  78. 78
    El Cid says:

    Arnold Schwarzenegger’s first act as Governor in canceling a vehicle fee increase (since you can’t get a legislative 2/3rd vote to raise them as required by law) added 1/3rd to California’s budget.

    This means that conservatives can be furious with California’s public sector unions and the state needs to go after their pensions.

  79. 79
    Xenos says:

    @Pooh: Once you consider the use of ‘mandatory’ as a modifier of ‘ministerial’ you really are narrowing that definition tremendously. Also – any history of Wisconsin senators sitting out quorum calls as a sort of filibuster? If it has never been prosecuted before it would be terribly hard to convince anyone it is a truly mandatory and nondiscretionary duty.

    Short of some really clear Wisconsin case law to the effect that this is a criminal violation, this looks like serious overreach by the Governor.

  80. 80
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: blah blah blah
    when do you apolo for the harm you have done at Culture 11 and LoOG by propagandizing all these years?
    you havent changed.
    you are still pandering.
    you just pander to the juicers naow because your old team is going to LOOOOOOOOSSE forevah.

  81. 81
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Xenos: If it is a crime to miss a quorum call, every quorum call that did not result in 100% attendance would result in potential criminal consequences for legislators. Legislators are not going to criminalize their own dentist appointments.
    @matoko_chan: The guy has said that he was wrong about a number of beliefs he used to hold. Have you never changed your mind about something? Why do you feel that he owes you an apology? Were you led astray and harmed by his previous writings? Just give it a rest already.

  82. 82
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: you HELPED build the Distributed Jesusland that put those fucktards in power.
    is it too much to ax for an apology?
    How about accepting responsibilty for your part in this?
    i dont believe you have changed a nanowafer.
    i think this is a scam.
    you dip a toe into sea of reality, “evolve” your position, and bask in the adulation of these dumb cows that think they have helped you get rational.
    prove you’ve changed.
    shrive yourself in blood, poseur.

  83. 83
    matoko_chan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: he harmed the whole country.
    He was a civil libertarian spinner at Culture 11 two years ago. civil liberty was his “beat”. Conor had the call-out-crazies beat.
    where has he changed?
    zuzuspetals and i called him out on the “reasonableness” of fetus=slave and he still slid out from under that.

  84. 84
    Reks says:

    It’s odd. My opinion of E.D. Kain rises every time I read a matoko_chan screed.

    Seriously though… people’s beliefs evolve over time. Do you know who David Brock is?

    I would know. I used to be a social conservative.

  85. 85
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @matoko_chan: People have already informed you of the difference between a libertarian and a civil libertarian. You don’t seem to learn. As far as the fetus = slave thing goes, it was an asinine and offensive argument on his part. It is, however, not his obligation to respond to every demand from blog-readers. Do you still demand specific apologies from Cole for things he said in 2003? I doubt it.

  86. 86
    Alex S. says:



  87. 87
    matoko_chan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: where does EDK make up for 3 years of spin at Culture 11, at TAS, at LoOG? I read him when he mused out loud that the teahadis were actually fiscal conservatives, that birthers weren’t really racist, that Brietbart was a noble journalistic pioneer.
    He helped build the Distributed Jesusland that got these got these fuckers elected.
    Where is the apolo for 3 years of destructive spin and lies?
    Sure naow he wants to switch sides.
    i think he should have to shrive himself in blood first.

  88. 88
    numbskull says:

    ED, you’re not quite there yet. Yes, the Politfact opinon piece provides more information and nuance, mainly by making the point that Maddow’s statement is weakened when placed in the larger context of state budgetary issues. However, the even larger context, and arguably one closer to reality, is that the budget shortfall, as projected, can easily be addressed without resorting to ANY of the responses the Republicans are trying to force through.

    That is, the fundamental message of Maddow and others is correct: There is NO crisis in Wisconsin beyond what has been manufactured by the Governor and his Republican fellow travelers. What they are faced with are relatively mild budgetary challenges that are worked out in State Houses all the time without any histrionics. It’s called competent leadership.

  89. 89
    matoko_chan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: He was a “civil libertarian” at Culture 11. That was his “beat”, like Young Conor’s was horrible-talk-radio hosts and Palin-is-a-retard.
    i can get links.
    where has he changed? hes still clutching his pearls and wringing his hands over conservative disdain for civil liberties.
    hes still pandering. he just panders to juicers now.

  90. 90
    matoko_chan says:

    aimai got him cold.
    hes looking for approval.
    he wont accept a picometer of responsibilty for the destruction he and his ilk have wrought on our country.
    he wants you to pet him and tell him hes evolving.

    well, SHOW ME the evolution.
    SHOW ME where hes changed.
    im an empiricist, membah?

    give me blood.

  91. 91
    matoko_chan says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Do you still demand specific apologies from Cole for things he said in 2003?

    Cole and I have been shrived in blood.
    we have accepted responsibilty for BEING WRONG.
    EDK never has. he slid out from under the fetus=slave eumeme even.
    Im just axin for EDK to do what Cole and I did.
    Shrive himself.

  92. 92
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @matoko_chan: Just for shits and giggles, what, from Kain, would satisfy you? What specifically would he need to do or say?

  93. 93
    E.D. Kain says:

    @numbskull: I say as much in this post.

  94. 94
    E.D. Kain says:

    PS I never worked at Culture11. MC is just mad that I banned her. I’d do it again in a heart beat.

    Also, I’ve never once praised Breitbart. What gibberish.

  95. 95
    E.D. Kain says:

    MC have you ever apologized for your neocon blogging?

  96. 96
    numbskull says:

    @E.D. Kain: Ah, well then it’s too subtle for me and my one-coffee-shorted morning. It happens.

  97. 97
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @E.D. Kain: Are you planning on shriving yourself to satisfy her? Inquiring minds want to know.

  98. 98
    numbskull says:

    And BTW, thanks for the video link. I’ve sent it to both of my friends. ;)

  99. 99
    E.D. Kain says:

    @Omnes Omnibus: Good lord no. I could care less about satisfying her. But, to set the record straight:

    Never worked at C11, never wrote at TAS. These are both just blatant untruths. MC hates me because I banned her and didn’t publish a guest post she submitted to The League. Not too long ago she emailed me to tell me I was “alright afterall” and then, not long after that, decided to troll me again. I in no way want to appease her. She’s nothing more than a troll, and has written pretty awful racist things. Why we don’t ban her here is beyond me. But that’s not my call.

    Re: the fetus/slave analogy that’s not one I ever made. It’s one I sought to understand through writing. The last time I wrote about it I went out of my way to explain I thought it was a wrong-headed, pointless analogy but still try to explain why people were using it.

    I’m not going to apologize for every stupid thing I’ve said. For the last two years I’ve also been against torture, war, and many of the idiotic things conservatives have said. I’ve been wrong also and have admitted as much. Nothing will appease a troll, even this little feeding here.

  100. 100
    E.D. Kain says:

    @numbskull: No worries, by the way. Maybe I wasn’t clear enough though I tried to be.

  101. 101
    matoko_chan says:

    fetus=slave is a perfect example. i never thought EDK believed that.
    but i deplore his assertion that this a “reasonable” belief to hold.
    It is not a “reasonable” belief to hold.
    Like the conservative leadership’s assertion that birtherism was a reasonable belief in the beginning…or what EDK asserted–that birthers are not racists.
    But look what has happened.
    Conservatives have tried to turn off the memetically inbred racism in their base, and it apparently cannot be done. Birtherism is subliminated racism, because overt racism is taboo in contemporary America. Conservatives have tried to persuade their base on this starting at last years CPAC and the numbers have not changed…last year around 3/4 of conservative voters polled as either overt birthers or uncertain..
    In the 2011 survey 51% dont believe our president is an american, and 21% are “not sure”.
    While there is nothing in the constitution forbidding people to hold bad, stupid, wrong, counterfactual ideas, it is WRONG to help them try to impose those beliefs on other citizens.
    That is why EDK banned me at LoOG, because i refused to let him say those positions (AGW denial, supplyside econonic, IDT, fetus=slave) are “reasonable”.
    And he would ban me here if Cole would let him.

  102. 102
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @E.D. Kain: That makes sense to me. As far as apologizing goes, one changes over time and, in my opinion, one only need apologize for one’s actions if someone was hurt by them. If not, it is enough for one’s credibility to acknowledge the change. I have been always been generally on the left side of most of the issues of the day, so I have not had to deal with walking across the aisle as some of you have done. I do not know if I could manage it with as much grace as you are showing.

  103. 103
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: yup. I killed Jinnderella.
    there was blood.
    and now i attack you lying fuckers at every opportunity with my truth sword.
    that is why you banned me at LoOG.
    do you want to see the mails?
    i assume you deleted your copies.

  104. 104
    Xenos says:

    @matoko_chan: The harm Kaine has done at Culture11 and LoOG?

    How powerful do you think he is? Why the creepy stalkery schtick?

  105. 105
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: you commented at TAS and culture 11. you have never changed your civil libertarian position.

    has written pretty awful racist things.

    link please. ffs im not a racist. i despise proselytizers and im an IQist.
    how is that racist? you say racist because that is an easy strawman.

    Not too long ago she emailed me to tell me I was “alright afterall” and then, not long after that, decided to troll me again.

    it became apparent you were faking it when you told me Newton and Galileo were first culture intellectuals….they are second culture..scientists.
    i want you to admit you were WRONG. i withdrew my guest post when i realize LoOG was a propaganda mill for the Right.
    and i have the mails still.
    wanna see?
    again EDK, you are being anti-empirical. i am not a racist, and i resent you spinning our interaction. I approved of one post you made–but you consistantly support the conservative rationale for letting your base believe stupid, bad, wrong, antiempirical ideas, and trying to impose them on other citizens in the name of divided government.
    i see no change.

  106. 106
    E.D. Kain says:

    @matoko_chan: I’ll engage you here for a while, mc.

    I never delete emails, nor do I publish private correspondence unless agreed upon by all parties.

    I banned you because you were a troll, and because I asked you to stop. There are plenty of commenters at the League who held my feet to the fire for any number of issues, and I never banned any of them. Explain that. Nor did I say it was a reasonable belief to hold re: fetus/slave, only that it was understandable why people who are largely ignorant of the real history of slavery might make that comparison if they are also of the belief that fetuses are actual people. That doesn’t make it right or reasonable, but I can understand why these people might make the claim. There is a great deal of ignorance and passion, and it comes to full fire on these issues.

    I have never said birtherism was okay. I never defended Breitbart. I have been, on balance, far more critical of conservatives than I have been supportive. I have realized that even that is not enough, that taking that stance is in some ways actually helpful to conservatives – the ‘useful idiot’ thing DougJ and mistermix have been talking about. I am not sorry for holding libertarian positions that were held in good faith. I was not advocating war or torture. I was writing often about the horrors of war and torture and police abuse and the war on drugs.

    I have said over and over again that I was wrong on various fiscal issues especially. Since I was always socially liberal I see no reason to apologize there or admit mistakes.

  107. 107
    E.D. Kain says:

    @matoko_chan: You keep saying ‘civil libertarian’ like it’s a bad thing. EVERYONE should be a civil libertarian. We’d have a much better world. If I polled readers here, I think 99.99% of them would agree. Are you just totally ignorant on the definition here?

  108. 108
    E.D. Kain says:

    @matoko_chan: I don’t even understand the Newton / Gallileo comment. Does anyone understand this?

  109. 109
    Ash Can says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    I’ll engage you here for a while, mc.

    That way madness lies.

  110. 110
    matoko_chan says:

    @Xenos: i was a conservative. a hereditary republican. i cast my first vote for Bush. my family had a party. i voted republican until 2008.
    here is my Hall of Shame. i don’t delete it so i can scourge myself with how stupid i was.
    that is why i know what EDK wrote. i was a regular (if dissenting) commenter at LoOG and TAS.
    shamefully, i loved culture 11….i thought it was the last hope of intellectual conservatism…it seemed like an elegant decarian math designed to preserve the values of conservatism while the GOP burned.

    and i was right.
    but Culture 11 was destroyed on the day Breitbart made the Big Hollywood blog.
    bi la kayfah.

  111. 111
    matoko_chan says:

    it was understandable == reasonable belief.
    do i have your permission to publish the mails then?
    and i refuse to engage you until you show me an awful “racist” thing i said.
    stand and deliver.

  112. 112
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: in the mails. about first culture and third culture intellectuals.

  113. 113
  114. 114
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @E.D. Kain: Vaguely yes, but really no. She has a reasoning from first principles versus empirical reasoning thing going on. From what I can gather, you offended against her rules and categorized the lads improperly at some point in your life. For this, you will not be forgiven unless, if I understand her correctly, you join the cult of Mithras and bathe in the blood of a bull.

  115. 115
    matoko_chan says:

    im going boarding.
    you have some time to marshall your arguments and find a link where i say something AWFUL racist.
    again, im an IQist. i dont give a fuck about skin color.
    you banned me because i refused to let you pander….i have the mail.
    i think you are pandering naow.

  116. 116
    morzer says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    Well, a civil libertarian is at least an upgrade on a rude libertarian.. right?

    More importantly – what happened to your mohawk? What is this talking of growing out your hair? Hmm? Hmmm?

  117. 117
    morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I have to point out that Tokie is not and never was a Mithraist. Nor could she have been. No chicks for Mithras. Sorry, but them’s the rules.

  118. 118
    E.D. Kain says:

    @morzer: Going all DFH I guess. Beard, too.

    @Omnes Omnibus: Hey, Mithras is alright. I’m more of a Loki guy myself, but Mithras is better than some.

  119. 119
    matoko_chan says:

    @smedley: no, it was the empowerment of Distributed Jesusland.
    and EDK was a soljah in the cause when i knew him.

  120. 120
    morzer says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    Scarlet streaks in the hair? Go on, mark your new allegiance to radical soc.ialism! You know you want to!

    Seriously though, use Cleek’s pie filter and kick MadHokieChan off your mental island. It really does improve your quality of life.

  121. 121
    smedley says:

    @Chuck Butcher: Hmmm…
    Not so much around here. Dems stayed home; to “…make a statement.” Fortunately the R Gubernatorial candidate was such a whack job,many R’s couldn’t stand him.

  122. 122
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @morzer: For the record, it is my understanding that she wants Kain to worship Mithras, not that she herself is a member of the cult. I do not pretend to know why this would appease her.

  123. 123
    matoko_chan says:

    and if any of you try to follow the links to gnxpscifi from my hall of shame, razib deleted our gnxp scifi sub-blog when i became a liberal and a muslimah.


  124. 124
    morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, she ain’t got no Mithras standing, and anyway, last time I heard she’d “reverted” to Islam, which seems a sad occurrence for that faith. Leaving all that aside, I am sure the fratres would welcome Kain, regardless of MadTokieSham’s reaction. Personally, I suspect she’s an alter ego of Karl Rove. Probably the way he lets off steam after a long day’s lonely bigotry.

  125. 125
    Tim says:

    Wow. Passion on behalf of progressive/liberal values. Who knew?

    We could use a little of this in D.C. from the White House and congressional Dems.

  126. 126
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    I banned you because you were a troll,

    relly? you did?
    then ban DougJ. he reamed trolled you a thousand times better than i ever did.

  127. 127
    gravie says:

    When I see “makato_chan” I scroll, scroll, scroll. In other news, that clip was AWESOME!!!!! I’m energized for the entire day.

  128. 128
    smedley says:

    @E.D. Kain: E.D, you are feeding the beast. It just leads to more tedious arcane posts. Let’s move on for the benefit of the commentariat sanity, please.

  129. 129
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @matoko_chan: Quality matters, dear.

  130. 130
    morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    U izz a Cudlip!

    Sorry, couldn’t resist.

  131. 131
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @morzer: And quite possibly a bio-luddite.

  132. 132
    morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Does that make you a cud-lud? Or a bio-lip?

  133. 133
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @morzer: One prefers cuddite.

  134. 134
    E.D. Kain says:

    @smedley: this was my only and my last attempt at reasoning. Done now.

  135. 135
    morzer says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    You pledge never to reason again? That seems a bit extreme. Or are you applying the principle of “If you can’t beat them, join them”?

  136. 136
    buckyblue says:

    I am waiting for the WI14 to be arrested, hauled back to the senate chamber to force the quorum, and then be tried for what they did. Tough to think of too many other images that would have that much power for the cause. JB Van Hollen is the AG and is doucheie wingie with a touch of independence at times. Koch bros are threatening to recall any republican senator who votes against this bill.

  137. 137
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @buckyblue: There is nothing on which to base an indictment. Individual legislators miss quorum calls all the time.

  138. 138
    rikyrah says:

    saw this yesterday, and went BRAVO watching it.

  139. 139
    jinxtigr says:


    Cole and I have been shrived in blood.

    When you’re done with that, can you shrive my car?

    Cos’ I’m gonna be a star :)

  140. 140
    E.D. Kain says:

    @morzer: my last attempt to reason with m c over this.

  141. 141
    morzer says:


    Actually, shriving is when a priest hears confession, prescribes some form of penance, and absolves the penitent. Nothing to do with blood whatsoever. Still, you could talk to the car about its faults, I guess.

  142. 142
    morzer says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    Well, you’ve shown admirable patience, although reasoning with the alogical is a bit like asking a tree stump to dance.

  143. 143
    Nutella says:


    And if the D’s threaten to recall them for voting for it they’re in a tough spot. Probably a good idea to start collecting signatures just for the current outrages Gordon Hintz calls out.

  144. 144
    Nutella says:

    @Spaghetti Lee:

    Is what the Wisconsin 14 doing right now illegal? I’ve got a libertarian friend of mine claiming they’re in violation of this statute: [link] and that it’s a felony and that they’ll go to prison.

    That word libertarian — I don’t think it means what your friend thinks it means. The government convicting and jailing someone for not showing up at a vote is about the opposite of ‘libertarian’. But both words ‘conservative’ and ‘libertarian’ are now used for crazy extreme radical ideas.

  145. 145

    Goddamn it lots of pie in this thread. Y’all are making me hungry.

  146. 146
    morzer says:


    Did ED Kain and you ever touch base?

  147. 147
    imonlylurking says:

    and now i attack you lying fuckers at every opportunity with my truth sword.

    Is that +10?

  148. 148
    E.D. Kain says:

    @morzer: Not yet. I’m not recruiting just now – other projects are taking all my time up, and new recruits are always a LONG process anyways especially since our last disastrous attempt at expanding the roster.

  149. 149
    Leah says:

    I’m a regular BJ reader, but an intermittent commenter, but I’d like to go on record to thank E.D. for sharing his journey with us, which I find both moving and heartening.

    Getting back to that PolitFact article, I think it’s right in terms of a narrow interpretation of the notion that Gov Walker created the entire shortfall and the looming larger debt coming up in the next budget period. However, there appears to be considerable evidence that he always planned to use the budget issues as a cudgel to attack the fundamental structures that make unionization a viable option, and to do it to 90 percent of state workers who are already union members.

    Brian Beutler wrote the original story at TPMDC and he had more sources than Rachel Maddow did; it’s worth taking a look at.

    There’s video evidence that during the lame duck period after Walker was elected but before he took office that he was intent on decertifying public unions, using the same excuse that without the power of an organized workforce the state could save money.

    Also worthy of note is this Beutler post comparing the way the previous Democratic-controlled legislature met an even bigger budget shortfall without threatening the entire institution of collective bargaining.

  150. 150
    morzer says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    Well, we did rather suggest that Draco Malfoy might not be your wisest use of a first-round pick. As for JaMarcus Russell….

  151. 151
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: exactly.
    no link to my “awful racist” statements, no explanation of why you banned me for “trolling” but not DougJ.
    you see…..i think you’re just like Sully.
    its just the same headfake you been frontin’ with ever since i’ve read you.
    these poor marks badly want to believe they have converted you.
    but you dont sound any diff’rent to me.
    Can i print your emails?
    it would sure help explain things.
    i have a great email from a NRO frontpager about how they had to have Team McCain vet anything they said about race in the 2008 election. i have email from another NRO frontpager about what he thinks of Palin.
    and i have email from you telling me why you banned me.

  152. 152
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: One link? One awful racist thing i said? c’mon, wheres your search fu.
    there arent any are there…..
    i dont see where you have changed. you still pimp the “innovation of the market”, you still refuse to educate the base.
    you wanna switch horses naow. who could blame you?
    but you need to take responsibility for the harm you have done.
    and you are still doing it.
    I chopped off Jinnderellas head.
    What is your penance?
    the LoOGies are still going strong with AGW denialism, IDT, ensoulment, homophobia masked as defense of marriage, supplyside economics and market innovation….and reasonable/understandable fetus slaves.
    you are a liar.
    and these simpletons here want desperately to believe they have persuaded you.
    well……cross the aisle then.
    i double dog dare you.
    go all the way.

  153. 153
    matoko_chan says:

    wait a sec…..what happened to that black girl that was posting there….was that EDKs “disaster? i guess i better go look.

  154. 154
    DougW says:

    republicans are hell bent on union busting. If the union busting language wasn’t in the bill, and if they were willing to cut some of their own spending (i.e. tax cuts for the rich), you could believe that these were serious legislators. As it is, they are nothing other than self interested asshats that want to do everything they can to cater to the right and strike down anything progressive while they can.
    I predict that they are a minority party after this little party of fascism that they’ve enacted in the name of conservative ideals (that have never worked in the past and will never work in the future). Most Americans that voted for these asshats had no idea what they were going to get. In 2012, they will have had the experience of the 2010-2012 period to get to know their ass bandits… Will they want to keep these folks in power? I don’t think so…

  155. 155
    matoko_chan says:

    She’s nothing more than a troll, and has written pretty awful racist things. Why we don’t ban her here is beyond me.

    Link please.
    this is going on every thread you put up until you provide the empirical data that i said “awful racist things”.
    Are you a gentleman? I demand satisfaction. Its my right, isnt it, Cole?
    And im proud of being a troll….i follow the School of the Master, DougJ.
    But i only troll you. Because i think you are faking it.
    Like DougJ trolled those talking apes “principled libertarians” you are so proud of.
    You are trying relly hard to pretend that didnt happen. Are you too stupid to see it, or too humiliated to acknowlege it?
    In America libertarianism is one leg of the conservative stool. You should call yourself something else if you support civil liberty in America.

  156. 156
    matoko_chan says:

    @morzer: in the country of the blind the one eyed man(or woman) is king.

Comments are closed.