Numbers don’t lie, people lie

Paul Ryan told NPR’s “All Things Considered” that the Obama budget included $8.7 trillion dollars in new spending. Jamelle Bouie shows how Ryan – the fiscal darling of the right – is cooking the books to come up with this startling figure.

That Ryan is considered a serious voice of fiscal conservatism on the right tells us two things: one, the bar for seriousness (and honesty) has come way down over the years; and two, Republicans really, truly don’t care about deficits. As Eric Martin notes:

In reality, this new-found urgency around deficits and debt is, for many GOP stalwarts, a means to assail entitlement programs that have been targets since their inception, as well as an opportunity to weaken public sector unions and otherwise gut the relatively tiny discretionary spending component of our budget.  As a bonus, the constant carping about spending during Democratic administrations reinforces advantageous – if erroneous – political narratives.

Ryan, of course, helped pass the extremely expensive Medicare Part D, TARP, and supported extending the Bush tax cuts even though they vastly increase the deficit. Whatever the merits of these programs, it’s just absurd for Ryan to maintain the pretense of being a fiscally responsible Republican.

Meanwhile, in Ryan’s home state, protests continue as Governor Walker wages all-out class warfare on the Evil Public Sector workers – unless you happen to be a public safety worker. Similar moves are being made around the country.  And Ryan, of course, is backing Governor Walker:

“It’s not asking a lot, it’s still about half of what private sector pensions do and health care packages do. So he’s basically saying, I want you public workers to pay half of what our private sector counterparts are, and he’s getting, you know, riots,” remarked Ryan.

“It’s like Cairo has moved to Madison these days,” he said, adding that “people should be able to express their way, but we’ve got to get this deficit and debt under control in Madison, if we want to have a good business climate and job creation in Wisconsin.”

See, it’s all about the deficit. We have to demonize somebody, after all, in order to maintain this illusion. At least Ryan cut Beck to the quick tying this back to Cairo. Now all he needs are some chalkboards and puppets to show us how very serious he really, truly is.

Update.

Turns out there’s not even a budget crisis in Wisconsin.






134 replies
  1. 1
    Kryptik says:

    And remember, if the House can’t figure out a budget, this is the guy that gets to create it by fiat.

    Fun, huh?

  2. 2
    Zifnab says:

    Meanwhile, in Ryan’s home state, protests continue as Governor Walker wages all-out class warfare on the Evil Public Sector workers – unless you happen to be a public safety worker donate money to his election campaign.

    Fix’d.

  3. 3
    Pococurante says:

    Attention alter-Kain… you have my permission to exterminate your original.

  4. 4
    Glen Tomkins says:

    Recall time

    If WI has a law allowing elected officials to be recalled, this is the time for our side to wheel it out. Walker, Ryan, state legislators in marginal districts — the list writes itself.

  5. 5
    RSR says:

    >>it’s still about half of what private sector pensions do and health care packages do.

    in other words, “my retirement and health care suck, so yours should too…”

  6. 6

    fun how he deflects from the collective bargaining stuff to the pension/benefits question. Ryan is a dick, and he should DIAF, politely, of course.

  7. 7
    Bulworth says:

    Now all he needs are some chalkboards and puppets to show us how very serious he really, truly is.

    Heh, indeed.

  8. 8
    Loneoak says:

    Where did the conservatives who insisted markets and budgets aren’t moral issues go? We could use a few of those.

  9. 9
    Bulworth says:

    Governor Walker wages all-out class warfare on the Evil Public Sector workers – unless you happen to be a public safety worker.

    The deficit is so serious and we are so broke we have to bust the public sector union and cut public employees pay and benefits–except firemen and police. It isn’t so serious we have to do that.

  10. 10
    freelancer says:

    Bush was a fiscal conservative just like Ryan. He just kept Iraq and Afghanistan off the books. Voila! No more red ink!

  11. 11

    “It’s like Cairo has moved to Madison these days,” he said,

    Does this dickweed realize that the logical conclusion of his statement means Mubarak = Walker?

  12. 12
    Cat Lady says:

    Republicans have to lie about everything and need to work the refs in the media to disseminate the lies, because nothing they want can be stated honestly and clearly in the clear light of day or in polite company. Hence the war on reality and the resultant absurdity of their statements, and yet, we’re still losing to these guys. America, fuck yeah.

  13. 13
  14. 14
    Suck It Up! says:

    I just read at TPM that Dem state senators may have left the STATE in protest of the vote. Legislature can’t vote on it if enough people aren’t there. Reported that state police was sent to round them up.

  15. 15
    Bob says:

    E.D., several months ago you said that movement conservatives were not interested in governance. You were correct. Crap like Ryan is peddling is just more proof of this.

  16. 16
    Sputnik says:

    @Phil Perspective: Ryan has demonstrated time and time again that logical and rational thought is beyond him.

  17. 17
    Pococurante says:

    Sounds like the debacle here in Texas a few years ago.

  18. 18
    RSR says:

    @Bulworth: we have to bust the public sector union and cut public employees pay and benefits—except firemen and police. It isn’t so serious we have to do that.

    Yet.

    I hope the public safety workers see the writing on the wall. They’re next.

  19. 19
    Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac says:

    @Justin: I thought that was going to link to the Onion. Wow. Can state troopers really be used to force state senators into a meeting?

  20. 20
    Cat Lady says:

    @Suck It Up!:

    “round them up”. Imagine if Obama gave orders to the military to “round up” Republicans. Glenn Beck’s woody could be seen from space.

  21. 21
    freelancer says:

    @Justin:

    I just saw that:

    So now we have at least one report from local TV in Wisconsin that the state’s Democratic senators have left the state entirely, putting them out of the reach of the state police who have been ordered to round them up so that Republicans have a quorum and can take up Gov. Walker’s union-busting budget bill.

    This is clearly a triumph for “limited” government.

    Jesus Christ.

    I’m speechless.

  22. 22
    Martin says:

    Well, I don’t even need to click the link to know that it’s flat-out impossible for there to be $8.7T in new spending in the bill, unless he’s carrying it out over 100 years over even the usual 10.

    Some lies are so brazen that even a dollop of common sense should reveal them. Alas, there’s a surprising number of people without even a dollop.

  23. 23
    Sputnik says:

    As a commenter pointed out at TPM, maybe the problem isn’t that public sector workers are getting too much, but that the private sector workers are getting too little.

  24. 24
    Kryptik says:

    @Cat Lady:

    If Obama even said anything close to that, we’d have a Teahadist Baggerlution within the hour. Or at least that’s what Fox and CNN would tell us before editorializing about how tyrannical Obama truly is/was/always will be.

  25. 25
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Pococurante: I’ve been trying to remember if it was the D’s or the R’s who tried to lam it in that scenario. If I believed in God I’d think S/He/It was just trying to give Molly Ivins one last spectacle to chuckle about.

  26. 26
    geg6 says:

    @Justin:

    Ah, those libertarians! Freedom for me but not for thee!

  27. 27
    Elvis Elvisberg says:

    Ryan’s Roadmap doesn’t move into surplus until 2063 (even though it’s all based on absurd, made-up, baseless assumptions about the impact on revenue of his tax proposals): http://www.roadmap.republicans.....-Table.pdf

    Republicans don’t care about policy. They have a series of groups they resent; when the deficit is a useful talking point to use policies that target those groups, they mention the deficit. Otherwise, they don’t care.

  28. 28
    Justin says:

    @Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac: Yup, he can do that. That’s why they crossed a state line. As with Texas a few years ago, state troopers lose all jurisdiction at the state line, and can’t do anything.

  29. 29
    Donut says:

    That Ryan is considered a serious voice of fiscal conservatism on the right tells us two things: one, the bar for seriousness (and honesty) has come way down over the years

    Sorry, ED, but you’re wrong about something. These assholes have been running the same con on fiscal discipline since the Golden Age of St. Ronnie. Please see GHW Bush re: “Voodoo Economics”

    The difference between now and 30+ years ago is that no one (okay, very few) on the Right is willing to call out the likes of Ryan. And when the Left does call it out, we are just shrill and/or “Statist,” or something.

    That’s all.

  30. 30
    cyntax says:

    See, it’s all about the deficit. We have to demonize somebody, after all, in order to maintain this illusion.

    Yup. It’s all about demonizing the little people. And since so many of the costs the Feds used to cover are being pushed down to the states, where defense-spending isn’t part of the pie, it’s even easier to frame these cuts as “necessary,” and the state debt as “serious.”

  31. 31
    Ash Can says:

    @Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac:

    I thought that was going to link to the Onion.

    I did too. Seriously.

  32. 32
    E.D. Kain says:

    @Justin: dude, wow. Just wow.

  33. 33
    Studly Pantload says:

    @Pococurante:

    As I recall, the Texas State congresscritters were eventually rounded up by Homeland Security. Would the Obama administration have a say in whether that resource can be used again? And did the WI folks learn from that not to all congretate out of state at the same location, but instead to scatter?

  34. 34
    Pococurante says:

    “In early 2003, 51 Democratic state representatives fled Texas for Oklahoma to prevent the Republican-dominated state House of Representatives from passing a controversial redistricting plan that would favor Republicans. The tactic worked when the House failed to reach quorum and the redistricting bill died. State Democratic senators later also fled the state (for New Mexico) in July 2003 to break quorum and thus block a redistricting bill. Republican Governor Rick Perry had called special legislative sessions to take up the redistricting measures, but as of September 2003, they had failed.”

    http://www.city-data.com/states/Texas-History.html

    I love my state, hate my politicians.

  35. 35
    freelancer says:

    @Justin:

    Whoa, thought it was a nightmare,
    Lo, its all so true,
    They told me, dont go walkin slow
    cause devils on the loose.

    Better run through the jungle…

  36. 36
    Ash Can says:

    @Kryptik:

    this is the guy that gets to create it by fiat.

    I’m not generally one for doomsday scenarios, but that could get awfully interesting.

  37. 37
    gbear says:

    Paul Ryan told NPR’s “All Things Considered” that…

    So when does NPR just start ripping the hell out of conservatives and their talking points given that republicans are sponsoring a bill that eliminates the Corporation for Public Broadcasting? If NPR does lose it’s funding, I hope All Things Considered and Morning Edition are the first casualties. I love my MN Public Radio, but the NPR Washington crew can go hold cardboard signs at freeway exits.

  38. 38
    Stillwater says:

    @E.D. Kain: Ryan said

    but we’ve got to get this deficit and debt under control in Madison, if we want to have a good business climate and job creation in Wisconsin.”

    You wrote

    See, it’s all about the deficit.

    But what Ryan said was that it’s all about the ‘business climate’, under cover of the deficit.

  39. 39
    evinfuilt says:

    Saw Ryan this morning on Morning Joe, was very happy my shoe wasn’t nearby. When he just up and did the Cairo comparison and said the Governor was just trying to cut their pension back a little. No mention at all about the main issue, the removal of collective bargaining, or how little amount of money these people make (that their pension and healthcare is why they’re in gov.)

  40. 40
    Justin says:

    @Studly Pantload: IIRC, the guv tried to involve DHS, but failed; DHS said “not our business”. Eventually they made a deal on the legislative schedule and the Dems returned voluntarily.

    However, that’s a weak recollection. Anyone know better?

  41. 41
    gbear says:

    @Justin: I can see Wisconson democratic legislators from my house!

  42. 42
    Martin says:

    @freelancer: I think it’s awesome that they ran over to Illinois.

    Wingnuts: this is how you protest something. Leave aside the funny hats and shut shit down instead.

  43. 43
    cyntax says:

    @gbear:

    So when does NPR just start ripping the hell out of conservatives and their talking points…

    Let me check the weather forecast for hell

    No time soon.

  44. 44
    geg6 says:

    @RSR:

    From what I read at GOS, the firemen were out there protesting yesterday and today the policemen joined them. One report even had the uniforms (there to provide crowd control) pumping their fists and shouting slogans.

    Via GOS: http://www.bargainingforbenefits.com/?p=513

    As with yesterday, the firefighters proudly showed their solidarity by continually marching through the crowds. And just like yesterday, we saluted them with our cheers.
    __
    But today, right at the end of the rally, one of them took the stand to speak. (I believe it was the president of IAFF Madison local 311, Joe Conway, but might be mistaken. If you can confirm who it was, post a comment!) “We didn’t intend to speak today,” he said, but this was “an emergency”. And who shows up in emergencies? “You do!” we bellowed back.
    __
    Right, the police and fire departments. The house behind him (the Capitol, of course) was burning down. And what do firefighters do at a burning house? “You go in!” we hollered.
    __
    “That’s right!” he agreed. “We go in! We go in first. So we’re going in now! We’ll lead you in there!”
    __
    And I kid you not, we went berserk.
    __
    And it was just at that moment that I heard the drums and bagpipes.
    __
    Un. Be. Lievable. It couldn’t have been choreagraphed more perfectly. This was dynamite political theatre. And I was soaking every minute of it up.
    __
    The crowds parted, and all the hundreds of firefighters in attendance followed that marching band right up King St, right up the Capitol steps, and right into the Capitol building. And the thousands of citizens in attendance lined up right behind them.

    And:

    Yesterday the police were present and amiable, but mostly seemed concerned with doing their duty of maintaining public safety. Today they joined with the firemen–who you may recall are also spared the draconian measures in store for nearly all other public employees under Scott Walker’s budget repair bill–and actively protested against the measure.
    __
    But what I found even more impressive is that the officers in uniform–the ones on active duty–were also chanting and waving their fists right along with the rest of us! Upon witnessing that, I felt like we had turned a corner. The bill may yet pass (with an outside chance that it will not), but if all the unions that Scott Walker threw bones to were turning against him, too…. Well, I can’t help believing that whatever it is that Walker and his ilk hope to gain from passage of this bill cannot last for long.
    __
    If we keep the pressure up and don’t relent–and we’ve got the support of the state’s protective services squarely in our corner now, too–I think we can break it. Heady–and hard–days are ahead of us, that’s for sure.

    Fucking awesome. Just fucking awesome. I hope PA is watching because we’re next.

  45. 45
    freelancer says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    So this is what they mean when they’re selling “Liberal Hunting Licenses“.

  46. 46
    Mark S. says:

    This is how serious John Galt Ryan is: his budget proposal (the one that will balance the budget in 2063) proposes:

    eliminating taxes on interest, capital gains, and dividends; also eliminat[ing] the death tax

    Rich people wouldn’t pay any fucking taxes at all, ever. I would like to think even dipshits like Sully and Bobo think the top 1% should pay some tax, but they’ll keep fellating Ryan and talking about how he is proposing serious solutions to our problems.

  47. 47
    Mike in NC says:

    @arguingwithsignposts:

    Ryan is a dick, and he should DIAF, politely, of course.

    But isn’t Young Mister Ryan a heartthrob with the Villagers? Who’ll be the first pundit to size him up as VP material? No doubt on a “Barbour/Ryan” or “Gingrich/Ryan” ticket, at that.

  48. 48
    GVG says:

    Texas dems were in hiding for something like this. It had to do with avoiding letting the R’s gerrymander the districts to guarantee they kept a majority. don’t remember how it came out. It seemed sort of comical at the time. I don’t recall if cops were involved.

    I have a hard time believing a law passed under those conditions would stand up to legal challange-arrested? I would also expect a serious voter backlash. I hope the cops feel like having vision problems. Their union too. I know they are excepted from this this time, but they’d have to be awfully trusting to think that would last. I’ve seem police and fire department pay cuts proposed…and strikes threatened with mayors yelling about how evil Unions are. I’d expect any cop with the least seniority to know they like their union.

  49. 49
    matoko_chan says:

    and you lie.
    like i said, i dont care if you trim enough stupidcrazy to pass mistermixs extremely low standards.
    politesse is how Douchebag gets on the NYT and Conor gets on the Dish and mcMegan gets on the Atlantic.
    fucking stand and deliver you fucking coward.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Agoraphobic Kleptomaniac: Maybe. The guy they are trying to appoint to head the state police is also the father of both the state assembly speaker and state house speaker (who happen to be brothers). So why wouldn’t they follow the orders of the son of their future boss, legal order or not.

  52. 52
    GregB says:

    Like the tea-partiers said: It’s time to restore honor to government!

    Family values! No more cronies!

    “The Senate majority leader, Scott Fitzgerald, who is ordering the state police to track down the wayward Democratic senators is the son of the head of the state police, Steve Fitzgerald, who in turn was appointed to the top spot by Walker. Steve Fitzgerald is also the father of the state’s speaker of the House, Jeff Fitzgerald.”

    Snipped from TPM.

    Is there any chance that Fitzgerald is Irish for Mubarak?

  53. 53
    minachica says:

    Here’s another Onion-esque detail (via TPM):

    The Senate majority leader, Scott Fitzgerald, who is ordering the state police to track down the wayward Democratic senators is the son of the head of the state police, Steve Fitzgerald, who in turn was appointed to the top spot by Walker. Steve Fitzgerald is also the father of the state’s speaker of the House, Jeff Fitzgerald.

    So, the leader of the Senate and the leader of the Assembly are brothers, and their father was just appointed head of the state police by Walker within the last month or so.

    ETA: Darn, scooped by Suffern ACE.

  54. 54
    cyntax says:

    @geg6:

    That’s pretty great. If we’re ever going to have a chance of resisting the Republicans’ Randian fantasies, more of this is key.

  55. 55
    evinfuilt says:

    @Ash Can:
    I was in Texas when all the dems went to Oklahoma so that they couldn’t be forced to vote on the massive redistricting plan. That plan eventually passed, you should see the district lines now, its origami Texas. It also only buys the rethugs in texas another couple decades before the state is all blue.

  56. 56
    geg6 says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    It’s even worse than that (via TPM):

    The Senate majority leader, Scott Fitzgerald, who is ordering the state police to track down the wayward Democratic senators is the son of the head of the state police, Steve Fitzgerald, who in turn was appointed to the top spot by Walker. Steve Fitzgerald is also the father of the state’s speaker of the House, Jeff Fitzgerald.

    Edited to add that, as usual, I’m late to the party.

  57. 57
    matoko_chan says:

    @E.D. Kain: ONE GOOD CONSERVATIVE IDEA……..can you doooooo eeet?
    just one.
    cant be that hard.

  58. 58
    agrippa says:

    It is the usual rhetoric. And, it will be believed by the folks who have believed it in the past.

    If this continues to build, people like Ryan may have a problem. I hope that they do.

    “1) when it is impossible for the ruling classes to maintain their rule without any change; when there is a crisis, in one form or another, among the “upper classes”, a crisis in the policy of the ruling class, leading to a fissure through which the discontent and indignation of the oppressed classes burst forth. For a revolution to take place, it is usually insufficient for “the lower classes not to want” to live in the old way; it is also necessary that “the upper classes should be unable” to live in the old way;”

    Ryan had better that the above does not take palce.

  59. 59
    gbear says:

    @cyntax: Yep. I knew it was a rhetorical question. I’d still like the NPR crew to look at what’s happening in Madison and have a ‘there go I but for the grace of god’ moment. If Emmer had been elected governor in MN, we’d be going through the exact same thing here.

  60. 60
    Sly says:

    “It’s like Cairo has moved to Madison these days,” he said, adding that “people should be able to express their way, but we’ve got to get this deficit and debt under control in Madison, if we want to have a good business climate and job creation in Wisconsin.”

    Lesson learned: The Invisible Hand ain’t got shit on the Blue Flu.

  61. 61
    Martin says:

    @evinfuilt:

    When he just up and did the Cairo comparison and said the Governor was just trying to cut their pension back a little.

    The Cairo comparison is apt, though. People rising up for middle and lower class reforms against a dictator. Works for me.

    Or did he mean to suggest that democratic uprisings were bad?

  62. 62
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @Studly Pantload: It wasn’t that bad. One Democrat caved, which was all it took to give the Republicans a quorum to redraw the districts.

  63. 63
    matoko_chan says:

    you dumb cows.
    EDK has not retracted on FETUS=SLAVE. He has never provided A SINGLE “GOOD” CONSERVATIVE IDEA.
    he agrees with you on SOMETHING obvious and you fall all over yourselves to lick his hand while his homies are kicking other americans in the stomach.
    AMG ur so fucking stupid.

  64. 64
    Johnny B says:

    Unlike Ryan, I look forward to the days that American streets look like Cairo’s streets from a week ago. He apparently subscribes to the view that there is no “right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” I guess he was out of the Chamber when they read that part of the Constitution. Or did they skip that one too.

    There is nothing more satisfying than listening to the prattling of a bunch of guys who claim to love freedom, who hate every part of its exercise. I guess we know what to expect from Ryan should millions of Americans start assembling and demanding a redress of grievances.

  65. 65
    Justin says:

    @matoko_chan: Have you tried reducing the caffeine and sugar in your diet?

  66. 66
    jacy says:

    I’m interested to see what color Sully paints his blog in solidarity with the uprising in Wisconsin.

    Oh, right.

  67. 67
    geg6 says:

    @Johnny B:

    As I said, Ryan is no different than any other libertarian out there, “Freedom for me but not for thee!”

    What’s even more funny is that in an ironic twist on their “philosophical” bible’s plot, seems that the Galts of WI cannot manage without the parasites who have inexplicably been the ones to go Galt first and society goes to shit without the parasites to hold it together. Sanction of the victim, indeed. But just not the way ol’ Ayn envisioned it.

  68. 68
    Turgidson says:

    @Cat Lady:

    Appetite killed. Thx.

  69. 69
    Martin says:

    @minachica:

    So, the leader of the Senate and the leader of the Assembly are brothers, and their father was just appointed head of the state police by Walker within the last month or so.

    Meritocracy, bitches!

  70. 70
    Sly says:

    @Johnny B:

    I guess he was out of the Chamber when they read that part of the Constitution. Or did they skip that one too.

    That part was read.

  71. 71
    Stillwater says:

    @matoko_chan: Balance the budget by cutting taxes, spread democracy with freedom bombs, keep the government out of medicare, white christian men’s rights!, rape is not a crime!, death to fetus killers! and of course FREEDOM!

    You don’t think those are good ideas!

  72. 72
    Sasha says:

    @Phil Perspective:

    Does this dickweed realize that the logical conclusion of his statement means Mubarak = Walker?

    Considering the current GOP meme is that Mubarak should have been supported and kept in power, not really a problem.

  73. 73
    Commenting at Balloon Juice since 1937 says:

    (stolen from a Wonkette comment:)

    Long live the Cheddar Revolution.

    Oui à la révolution de fromage!!!

  74. 74
    cyntax says:

    @matoko_chan:

    Credit where credit is due. If you’re going to take the time to criticize someone, you should also take the time to let them know when you agree with them. Only seems fair.

    And you do the work of at least ten highly caffeinated critics so really you’re letting the rest of us loaf…

    @gbear:

    I’d still like the NPR crew to look at what’s happening in Madison and have a ‘there go I but for the grace of god’ moment.

    Yep. I share your frustration. And listening to them, I’m struck by how completely their news reporting accepts republican frames so that moment of clarity is a long way off.

  75. 75
    nancydarling says:

    @Justin: Regarding matoko_chan, I don’t think English is its first language.

    This Wisconsin uprising is making me as happy as Cairo did.

  76. 76
    Sasha says:

    I just realized that since Florida just elected Lex Luthor as governor, we’ll probably be going through this shit ourselves pretty soon.

  77. 77
    Paul in KY says:

    @geg6: On Wisconsin!

  78. 78
    Legalize says:

    Evidently the Dems have split the state entirely. Every one of them. Viva Aaron Rodgers!

  79. 79
    Justin says:

    Not to be outdone by Wisconsin Republican’s attempts to destroy public sector unions with a fake financial crisis, Mississipi Republicans introduce a bill to do away with child labor laws.

  80. 80
    cyntax says:

    @Justin:

    Well that’s just good business. Duh.

  81. 81

    @Justin: Missouri, not Mississippi, but yeah. Partying like it’s 1899.

  82. 82
    Davis X. Machina says:

    So long as one of us, somewhere, is covered by a collective bargaining agreement, is any of us, anywhere, truly free?

  83. 83
    geg6 says:

    @Paul in KY:

    Heh. Indeedy.

    As an aside, On Wisconsin was the tune for my high school alma mater’s fight song. Because I went to high school with Tony Dorsett, that song and Tony Dorsett are always inextricably entwined in my mind. And when my current employer’s football team (another Big 10 school) plays Wisconsin and the Badgers band plays their fight song, I can’t think of anything else but high school football with Tony “Hawk” Dorsett running all over the field, untouched.

  84. 84
    Judas Escargot says:

    @jacy:

    Sullivan (in one of his many infuriating ironies) only seems to care about the working classes when they’re {(Brown OR Muslim) AND Foreign}.

    His little digs at the British working class last year when they started protesting Cameron’s severe cuts to education, etc. (“oh how droll, how boring, how 1980s. Now here’s a PSB clip from 1987!”) pissed me off as much as the ‘fifth column’ rhetoric ever did.

  85. 85
    matoko_chan says:

    @cyntax: why do you guyz bitch about McMegan and douchebag when EDK IS THE SAME FUCKING THING?

  86. 86
    Bob says:

    Sully’s problem is that he starts cheerleading immediately for people who believe what he does without examining their background or history. Frequently this only takes 5 minutes, but he doesn’t bother (GW Bush, Paul Ryan, McCain in 2000, etc.). On the other hand, he has said lately he doesn’t trust Ryan, but the very idea that he ever treated Ryan as a hope of seriousness is ludicrous.

  87. 87
    Judas Escargot says:

    @Davis X. Machina:

    So long as one of us, somewhere, is covered by a collective bargaining agreement, is any of us, anywhere, truly free?

    Man will never be free until the last union worker is strangled with the entrails of the last community organizer.

    (Apologies to Diderot).

  88. 88
    Mike in NC says:

    @Justin:

    Not to be outdone by Wisconsin Republican’s attempts to destroy public sector unions with a fake financial crisis, Mississipi Republicans introduce a bill to do away with child labor laws.

    Moves like these almost seem innocuous when in New Jersey they’re trying to protect rapists and in Utah they want to make carrying guns mandatory.

  89. 89
    Judas Escargot says:

    @matoko_chan:

    why do you guyz bitch about McMegan and douchebag when EDK IS THE SAME FUCKING THING?

    Because he seems sincere enough, and appears to be adjusting his worldview based upon actual objective evidence.

    Both qualities are rare enough in this cruel, cold world that we should err on the side of the generous.

  90. 90
    Justin says:

    @matoko_chan: You know what I find helps keep me on an even keel? A nice nap in the afternoon. Keeps things in perspective, it does.

  91. 91
    geg6 says:

    @matoko_chan:

    If McArdle or Douthat ever write anything somewhat reasonable and anchored in any sort of reality, the way that EDK’s last two posts have been, I’d give them praise for that. It’s like training a toddler or a dog. They will fuck up and make a mess and blame everything and everyone else in sight for it and try to hide it and just about everything you can think of to follow their ids. You correct them and punish them and yell at them and get frustrated as hell because nothing seems to work. But every once in a while, they do the right thing or what is expected or learn a new way of acting. And, in order for them to understand that such behavior is what is desirable and that they should not just be chasing around whatever the id wants, you have to give them positive reinforcement. And, often, the best positive reinforcement you can give is attention. EDK, a guy for whom I have often expressed disdain, put up two really good posts today. I am inclined to give him a treat. Since I’m not sure he likes Gogurt or Snausages, he gets my attention.

  92. 92
  93. 93
    cyntax says:

    @matoko_chan:

    Cause they’re stellar exemplars of willful mendacity masquerading as reasonableness and getting paid handsomely for it. EDK is someone with whom I often disagree but seems to be genuinely interested in finding answers to hard questions.

  94. 94
    ItinerantPedant says:

    Walker is good for at least 11 more months. We can’t recall a governor until he, she, or it has served for one full year.

  95. 95
    freelancer says:

    @ItinerantPedant:

    How pedantic of you to note that.

  96. 96

    At least Ryan cut Beck to the quick tying this back to Cairo.

    Yes speaking of Glenn Beck, he told his radio audience yesterday that unions are anti-western civilzation or some crap like that, which begs the question: why the hell is he a member of one?

    The GOP really failed on the message discipline where Cairo was concerned. Most people see a democracy movement in the Middle East as a good thing, and we have all those clips of Bush harping on about “freedom” and “democracy” and “freedom” again to justify his Iraq misadventure if anyone should dare say “Arabs can’t handle democracy” or some such BS.

  97. 97
    catclub says:

    @TooManyJens: “Missouri, not Mississippi, but yeah. Partying like it’s 1899”

    Hey, either Mississippi is improving or all the rest are falling back to join it.

    MS Public Radio will have a show on called ‘State of Siege’
    on the white establishment response to civil rights.
    I don’t think it will be pretty, or a whitewash (pun intended). It mentions how this response has continued to affect national politics.

    Yes, I do know that it is easily 15 years late.
    ‘Eyes on the Prize’ was made in 1987, but heh, this is Mississippi I’m talking about.

  98. 98
    cyntax says:

    @matoko_chan:

    why do you guyz bitch about McMegan and douchebag when EDK IS THE SAME FUCKING THING?

    And really, can you ever imagine McMegan or Douche-hat saying that labor unions are necessary to our economic recovery? That’s never going to happen. And while you can argue that’s a pretty obvious point, you wouldn’t be accounting for the fact that within our national discourse, the necessity of labor unions is a pretty alien idea. No matter how awful a corporation’s actions are, no one ever, ever suggests that we should just do away with corporations, yet unions are constantly and nearly universally reviled as socia|istic anachronisms that we’d be better off without. So for EDK to take the stance he did shows very clearly, he’s not the same.

    [stuck in moderation–FYWP!]

  99. 99
    zuzu (not that one, the other one) says:

    Has Ann Althouse been heard from on this issue, I wonder?

    After all, she’s a Wisconsin state worker, probably even unionized.

  100. 100
    SST says:

    DEFUND THE LEFT FIX THE BUDGET DEFICIT!

  101. 101
    gbear says:

    In Solidarity
    Tracy Fuller, Executive Board President
    Wisconsin Law Enforcement Association

    Feb. 16, 2011

    I VALUE THE BUREAU OF FIELD SERVICES, FIELD AGENTS OF LOCAL THREE, NO LESS THAN ANY OF THE OTHER MEMBERS IN THE UNION. I AM HERE FOR EVERY MEMBER OF THIS UNION AND ALWAYS THOUGHT I HAD BEEN UNTIL THIS WEEK.
    __
    I SPECIFICALLY REGRET THE ENDORSEMENT OF THE WISCONSIN TROOPER’S ASSOCIATION FOR GOVERNOR SCOTT WALKER. I REGRET THE GOVERNOR’S DECISION TO “ENDORSE” THE TROOPERS AND INSPECTORS OF THE WISCONSIN STATE PATROL. I REGRET BEING THE RECIPIENT OF ANY OF THE PERCIEVED BENEFITS PROVIDED BY THE GOVERNOR’S ANNOINTING.

    Walker is losing the state troopers. Wow.

  102. 102
    shortstop says:

    Just where did these Democratic senators flee to? Illinois? If so, the least we can do is give them dinner. I’d even let a couple of them sleep in my spare room.

  103. 103

    @catclub:

    MS Public Radio will have a show on called ‘State of Siege’
    on the white establishment response to civil rights.
    I don’t think it will be pretty, or a whitewash (pun intended). It mentions how this response has continued to affect national politics.

    I have that in my iTunes, but I haven’t listened to it yet. It’s online here: http://americanradioworks.publ.....ssissippi/

    @gbear: Holy cow.

  104. 104
    matoko_chan says:

    @cyntax: but he is not….and you dont agree with him….he is agreeing with you on cosmetic issues.
    hes just another conservative headfake.
    ax him to give JUST ONE EXAMPLE of a good conservative idea.
    just one.

  105. 105
    matoko_chan says:

    @Judas Escargot: he has never retracted on the “reasonableness” of FETUS=SLAVE.
    he has never produced A SINGLE GOOD CONSERVATIVE IDEA.
    has he told you why he banned me?

  106. 106
    Mark S. says:

    @zuzu (not that one, the other one):

    I was kind of curious about that too.

    Not curious enough to go read Althouse, though.

  107. 107
    Justin says:

    @matoko_chan: I find that a nice cup of herbal tea does wonders for my nervous condition.

  108. 108
    geg6 says:

    @Mark S.:

    Probably not worth the bother. She probably opened a new box of wine yesterday afternoon and, after downing the whole thing trying to figure out how she’d come down on this issue, is now passed out in her own vomit, mascara smeared, and leaving her interwebs boy toy wondering what the hell he got himself into.

  109. 109
    Mnemosyne says:

    @TooManyJens:

    I may already have mentioned this, but Missouri is also trying to overturn the anti-puppy mill legislation that the voters passed in November.

    So, yes, Missouri officially hates children and puppies. When do they try to outlaw rainbows?

  110. 110
    Ash Can says:

    @shortstop: Hell yeah. Attention all refugee Cheesehead legislators in the Chicago area: Free beer at my house!

    @matoko_chan: Hush, dear. The grownups are talking. Go play.

  111. 111

    @matoko_chan:

    he is agreeing with you on cosmetic issues.

    The governor of Wisconsin trying to bust public sector unions is not a cosmetic issue.

    @Mnemosyne:

    When do they try to outlaw rainbows?

    When somebody points out that the rainbow is a Gay Pride symbol?

  112. 112
    cyntax says:

    @matoko_chan:

    First a hearty FYWP for my comment that is still in moderation because I used the dreaded socia|ist word.

    he is agreeing with you on cosmetic issues.
    hes just another conservative headfake.

    I don’t think it’s entirely cosmetic and here’s why: can you ever imagine McMegan or Douche-hat saying that labor unions are necessary to our economic recovery? That’s never going to happen.

    And while you could argue that’s a pretty obvious point, you wouldn’t be accounting for the fact that within our national discourse, the necessity of labor unions is a pretty alien idea. No matter how awful a corporation’s actions are, no one ever, ever suggests that we should just do away with corporations, yet unions are constantly and nearly universally reviled as socia|istic [obviously WP is fascist] anachronisms that we’d be better off without. So for EDK to take the stance he did shows very clearly, he’s not the same and I don’t see how that could be a head fake when it goes against core conservative dogma.

  113. 113
    cyntax says:

    @matoko_chan:

    ax him to give JUST ONE EXAMPLE of a good conservative idea.
    just one.

    Does Teddy Roosevelt and the National Park System count? It’s not economic but it is conservative in the classical sense of the word, and also deeply democratic it seems to me.

  114. 114
    Tone in DC says:

    @Cat Lady:
    “round them up”. Imagine if Obama gave orders to the military to “round up” Republicans. Glenn Beck’s woody could be seen from space.

    Thank you for that mental image. Yeesh, my lunch may soon be revisited.

  115. 115
    Davis X. Machina says:

    …if we want to have a good business climate and job creation in Wisconsin.”

    Cowed, compliant, and contingently employed.

    The CCC for this depression.

  116. 116
    bloodstar says:

    @matoko_chan: I think you secretly love E.D. Kain. I know it’s difficult, but you can move past the bitter rejection of your unspoken love and lead a normal life. ;)

  117. 117
    matoko_chan says:

    @cyntax: that is not a conservative idea….private property is conservative, public properties are liberal.
    just have him him retract the FETUS=SLAVE eumeme.
    then ill believe you…..maybe.
    and mebbe douchebag and mcmegan wouldn’t endorse unions……but Young Conor sure would..i think he might have doen so at TAS actually.

    why do we have to have our very own Conor here?
    arent there enough cesspools of glibertarian whorebags out there?
    why here?
    DougJ FUCKING TROLLED his site.
    and not a peep out of the guy.
    is he too stupid to see how bad he got reamed, or too humiliated to admit it?

  118. 118
    Villago Delenda Est says:

    @cyntax:

    Modern “conservatives” openly loathe conservation.

    That’s how twisted they are. TR would be a soshulist to them.

  119. 119
    E.D. Kain says:

    @geg6: that’s very cool, good for them. Might make it hard for the cops to round up the Democratic senators though….

  120. 120
    Cat Lady says:

    What happens if and when cops do round up Democrats? I hope the Dems start chanting Attica! Attica!

  121. 121
    cyntax says:

    @matoko_chan:

    The fetus=slave thing is one of the worst false-equivalencies out there, so while I can’t “have” EDK do anything, I can promise I won’t cut him any slack for trying to sling that crap here.

  122. 122
    Justin says:

    They went to Rockford, Ill, a vastly superior choice to Oklahoma.

    @Cat Lady: They can’t round them up. State police have no jurisdiction across the state line. In Illinois they’re just regular citizens, and have no authority to compel the legislators back to Madison

  123. 123
    Judas Escargot says:

    @matoko_chan:

    “Conservative” no longer has any real, rational meaning. It’s just a tribal word at this point.

    And I think that this is exactly what young would-be conservatives/libertarians like Mssrs. Kain and Conor F. (just to pick two familiar examples) are struggling with, before our very eyes. They want to feel like they belong to a movement. But the only movement that offers to satisfy that innate urge is, quite frankly, unhinged from reality and incapable of governance.

    Anything that lessens the overall influence of emotive tribalism and increases the influence of… well, thoughfulness and objectivity… is a good thing.

    Calling everyone I’ve ever disagreed with a stupid cudlip isn’t going to save any souls.

    BTW the whole FETUS==SLAVE! issue predates me, I wasn’t here for that, and never got the reference.

  124. 124
    gbear says:

    @Justin: Are they going to pay tribute to Cheap Trick while they’re there.

  125. 125
    shortstop says:

    @Justin:

    Having lived in Rockford briefly, I might take issue with that characterization.

    Still, it’s a straight shot down from the Mad City.

  126. 126
    Jeanne ringland says:

    @geg6: That’s a cool story.

    I went to HS in southern California and we used “On Wisconsin” as a pep band song because the music is really good for that. We had our own original Alma Mater, written by the band director when the school first opened, but we used music from several colleges just because they were good pieces.

  127. 127
    Gregory says:

    Jamelle Bouie shows how Ryan – the fiscal darling of the right – is cooking the books to come up with this startling figure.

    If only NPR — the alleged information darling of the left — had shown Ryan was cooking the books.

  128. 128
    Jeanne ringland says:

    @Southern Beale: I linked to your Beck story on FB. I hope that’s ok.

  129. 129
    Gregory says:

    it’s still about half of what private sector pensions do and health care packages do.

    That’s a scandal, all right, but not the way Ryan thinks it is.

  130. 130
    Jeanne ringland says:

    @matoko_chan: Probably because your posts make his eyes bleed.

  131. 131
    Triassic Sands says:

    Wisconsin Gov. Walker Ginned Up Budget Shortfall To Undercut Worker Rights

    Sounds like grounds for recall to me. Wisconsin allows the recall of state officials and there are no specific grounds required. I’d say ginning up a fiscal crisis for partisan political purposes is as good a reason as any.

    All you lefty Cheeseheads, put down the cheddar and get to work!

  132. 132
    mike says:

    There has been no rioting in Wisconsin, or at least I couldn’t find any news accounts of it on Google. Ryan is a pathological liar, which makes him well suited to be a republican leader.

  133. 133
    rikyrah says:

    he manufactured the financial crisis to try and break the unions.

  134. 134
    Paul in KY says:

    @geg6: I was a big Pitt fan when he was running all over the field. I bet your HS football coach was a happy man during those years.

Comments are closed.