First off, C-Span has the whole Tucson memorial posted. So I could re-watch the first part, especially the Blessing ceremony, which according to the C-Span timer lasted almost exactly eight minutes — well short of “rambling on forever” in terms of the average sermon, I believe. For those of you who wondered about the content, or context, a short anthropological note from someone who grew up amid a deeply hierarchal religious organization (the Irish-American Roman Catholic Church of the 1960s), and then moved to an entirely different believership platform (animism): Attendees at the standard traditional white-people Christianist church, or most modern American temples or mosques, understand that they are in a pre-sanctified space (usually, a church or other building set aside for such purposes) under the direction of a specified, sanctioned faith leader (the guy in the denominational uniform standing at the appointed altar). Less hierarchy-oriented faith traditions, including many “storefront” or “charismatic” Christian groups as well as the rich variety of Native American worship services, do not count on having such literal concrete markers to outline the parameters of a group spiritual experience. The prayer leader at such a worship service must therefore metaphorically build up a church within/about the “congregation”, and that requires establishing one’s own credibility as a first step. Kind of a lot to convey in 8 minutes, but maybe it’s easier to forgive if you know what’s being attempted.
**************
And for something Completely Different… “The Editors” at Esquire have an excoriating essay on the “respectable” uses of political violence as we know it:
… Political violence in America always has been a matter of great convenience to the people who actually own the country. They don’t have to inspire it, or finance it. They can even deplore it. All they really have to do is control the reaction to it — not let it get so wild that it disturbs the stock market and, at the same time, not let the reality of political violence disrupt the anesthetic consensus that swaddles the centers of real power. Thus do we get lone gunmen, and ritualized “healing,” and infinite misdirection. Earnest cud-chewing about talk-radio. David Gergen wonders about violence on TV and David Frum talks about marijuana, but nobody asks the old Latin question: Cui bono? Who profits?
__
There is even a reluctance in the prim and proper precincts of the elite corporate press to call what happened to Gabrielle Giffords an assassination attempt, and to call what Jared Loughner did a political act, because it is not nice to admit how thoroughly ingrained violence has become in our amnesiac American politics, because then we might ask who profits from walking on the fringe.
__
Loughner didn’t open up on the crowd at first. He didn’t climb a bell tower or crash his car into a cafeteria. He walked up to the person he most wanted to kill and he shot her in the head. That person was a member of the United States Congress. What Loughner did was an act of madness, surely, but it was a political act of madness, just as were the actions of Guiteau, and Czolgosz, and (maybe) Lee Harvey Oswald.
[…] __
The country-club set allied itself for the purpose of gaining and maintaining political power with people whose idea of political violence is slightly more than theoretical, egged on by an exaltation of vicious clowns on the radio and television, and to have heard them all defend the open brandishing of firearms at political rallies last summer was to have heard clearly the warning.
__
“We don’t have guns, but we know people who do.”
[…] __
They do it because they can make a buck and nobody ever wonders why. They do it because they can gain and maintain political power, while daintily calling for “civility” and telling us that we are good people who don’t respond to tactics like this. This doesn’t work? Try gun control. It has disappeared as an issue. Some dolt in Detroit tries to ignite his underpants and, as a result, we all consent to being groped and fluoroscoped by some underpaid TSA agent with a YouTube account back home. But shoot a Congressman — hell, kill a federal judge — and the discussion of why maniacs can arm themselves dies almost a’borning…
__
They do it because it works.
Parmenides
At times it makes me wonder. Why do we think that people who have made it in life should get anymore respect then for their views then anyone else. It reminds me of the belief by Doctors that having found one way to make money they are constitutionally incapable of not knowing how to make money other ways.
kdaug
In all honesty, has it ever been different in this country?
Wasn’t that long ago that you had to drop your gun off at the city limits, or when you went into a saloon.
But it seems that the default in this country has always been “Armed”.
Could be wrong. Discuss.
John - A Motley Moose
I’m glad you mentioned the Blessing ceremony. I was reading comments in that other thread about the “nutty native American” and how awful he was. I guess it would have been a lot better to have a
pedophilebishop up there wearing a mitre and pretty robes instead of sensible Native American clothing. A priest would have been much more acceptable, because instead of waving a feather he would have been swinging a censor containing burning incense. And let us not forget. The priest would have been chanting in a dead language instead of one that was native to the region. Yeah, I can see where people would have been much more comfortable and accepting of that.Assholes.
Ija
@John – A Motley Moose:
That’s not really necessary is it? Not all priests are pedophiles after all. Casual insults against Catholic are just as bad as casual insults against Native American.
Villago Delenda Est
@kdaug:
Well, you have to remember that, for the first three centuries of European settlement of the land now called the United States of America, it had a frontier on wilderness. With native peoples (often hostile), other European settlers (often hostile), and wild animals.
So weaponry at the individual level, alone in the wilderness, became ingrained in the culture that the Europeans back in the old country had long since outgrown.
It’s a part of our legacy that we’ll slowly outgrow, I think, over the long term. None of us will ever see it, of course. It’s way too long term for that. Already there is however an urban/rural split on firearms ownership attitudes. It will only become more pronounced in the future.
piratedan
@John – A Motley Moose:
It’s as if they don’t know that there are any Native Americans still living in the state. The Yaqui (or as the locals know them, the Tohono O’Odham) reservation is just off the SW side of town and stretches almost to Yuma (Kitt Peak is on the Rez if I remember properly). That doesn’t even bring to mind the Navajo or Apache tribes out there in Cochise County that are all part of her district as well.
gwangung
As I said, a tad ethnocentric.
Since most of us don’t catch the cultural markers or signifiers, it mystifies us and don’t grant it the gravitas it has for those who do catch it.
All the Catholic ceremony certainly looks nutty to anyone not familiar with the Christian theology.
Joey Maloney
o/t, has anyone else noticed that Dan Ackroyd time-traveled from 1985 or so to be Giffords’ neurosurgeon?
The Republic of Stupidity
@Villago Delenda Est:
And let’s not forget that the country was basically settled and created by misfits, malcontents, rejects, and more than a few out and out sociopaths… mebbe, just mebbe, if you were up for a challenge, you chose to come here in the 1600’s, 1700’s, 1800’s of your own free will. But an awful of of them were running away, hoping to start over, escape from their own screw ups, get something for nothing… you name it… indentured servitude ring a bell? NOT the gentleman’s choice of relocating…
I read the Oregon Trail, Francis Parkman’s 1846 account of his travels on the Great Plains, this past summer, and at one point he makes a comment about the endless stream of ‘pioneers’ he saw heading West… something to the effect that he had never seen such human dregs before…
It’s in the genes…
kdaug
@Villago Delenda Est: So the further you are removed from the wild animals, the less need you see for the weapons?
John - A Motley Moose
@gwangung: Here, let me fix that for you.
All the Catholic ceremony certainly looks nutty
to anyone not familiar with the Christian theology.Joey Maloney
@The Republic of Stupidity: An excellent book I once read explained the basic differences between Australia and the USA by noting that we got the scammers and religious fanatics and they got the criminals and whores.
Villago Delenda Est
@The Republic of Stupidity:
Well, you’ve got a point there.
The Australians really lucked out. They got the murderers, cutthroats, and thieves.
We got the religious nuts.
@gwangung:
A lot of Protestants will tell you that Catholic ceremony has got nothing to do with Christianity at all.
asiangrrlMN
Same as it ever was. I do hope we can have open discussions about our culture of violence, but I doubt we can.
As for the Native American, were people really that surprised by it? Sigh.
Villago Delenda Est
@kdaug:
You’d hope.
Unfortunately, we’ve got plenty of wild animals that walk upright on two feet, and somehow manage to use computers to connect to the Internet.
gwangung
@asiangrrlMN: Was kinda taken off guard by the negative comments in the open thread.
On the other hand…I think being on the receiving end of similar comments kinda makes you and me more aware of the attitude….
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: Trust me hon, anything but a good white preacher would be total heresy to the wingnuts. Although I don’t recall them losing their shit over the Native-heavy opening and closing ceremonies of the Vancouver Olympics. Probably because they’re just ebil sociaIists anyway.
Hi hon. I want no more stupid people on the other end of my phone at work plz. Kthxbai!
Suffern ACE
@John – A Motley Moose:
Personally, I think the priest might have said a prayer in English and possibly Spanish and not gone through the whole mass. I’m not certain if he would ask the people to stand or kneel, although given the venue, kneeling would have been tough. He probably would have done a fine job. I think a lot of Catholics would be finding it odd, and perhaps unacceptable, if he were chanting in Latin.
freelancer
@Joey Maloney:
Please Link, Ackroyd’s collapse from comedy genius to real life version of his character Mother in Sneakers has been a joy and an ache to behold.
hamletta
@Suffern ACE: Our Motley Moose has apparently never heard of Vatican II.
I guess it takes 50 years for news to reach the land where the moose roam.
Mnemosyne
@John – A Motley Moose:
TR did apologize in that thread for saying that. So can we all drop it now?
Mike Kay
Front Page of NYT
http://www.nytimes.com/images/2011/01/13/nytfrontpage/scan.jpg
BR
@gwangung:
Same here. As cynical as I can be about politics and national discourse, I really did and do feel like trying to be non-cynical about it after hearing President Obama today.
Calliope Jane
I just feel privileged that Dr. Gonzales was willing (and able) to give the blessing.
@piratedan: The Yaqui/Pascua Yaqui and Tohono O’Odham are the same? I don’t think I knew that. I could have sworn they were different but had neighboring reservations. A little embarrassing to admit that, but I do like learning things :)
@freelancer: And on a completely different note…whoa. You know, it’s just not the same without Sidney Poitier giving wtf looks.
asiangrrlMN
@Mnemosyne: He wasn’t the only one. Texas Dem was saying it, too. So were other people.
ETA: Actually, Texas Dem was the one calling him nutty.
@gwangung: Yeah, I just read the whole thread. I have to say, I’m glad I wasn’t reading the blog as I was watching the speech. It would have really put a damper on things.
@Yutsano: Sadly, it wasn’t the wingnuts. It was in the open thread below. And, sorry, but stupid people are a main staple of your job.
WarMunchkin
Taibbi.
Mnemosyne
@Mike Kay:
The NYTimes.com front page has a good photo gallery.
Also Yahoo! For some reason, when I heard that Daniel Hernandez was an intern, I did not picture someone who’s almost as tall as the president.
Mark S.
Shorter idiot at the Denver Post:
I might have embellished the last part, but the rest is pretty much the gist of it.
Comrade Mary
Washington Post front page. Holy shit, Obama is aging fast. Not at all surprising given the job, but still a shock to see.
John - A Motley Moose
@hamletta: I’m well aware of Vatican II. I’m also aware that many Catholics were and are still upset about it. My point stands.
Leave Latin out of it. Delete the gratuitous pedophile reference. Now substitute an invisible sky-being for the sky father. Substitute heaven and hell for the references to the four points of the compass. Throw in a few other beliefs, like transubstantiation that some people might find difficult to swallow. Now have this blessing or benediction delivered by a person who is speaking for the first time in front of a large audience of thousands of people and a national television audience of millions more.
Get the picture?
Mnemosyne
@asiangrrlMN:
I have no problem with Anne Laurie’s post — it’s a good explanation for those of us who aren’t familiar with that kind of religious expression. But it got very ugly in that other thread and I’d hate to see this one turn into another “fuck you!” “no, fuck you!” thread when it seems to have been resolved and apologized for in the other thread.
That’s all.
asiangrrlMN
@Mnemosyne: I am not saying fuck you to anyone. I am just stating that I am glad I was not on that thread earlier. I’m with gwangung on this one. I was taken aback to see several people comment on that aspect in such a negative way.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: Toxic thread = me no touchie. And yeah I’m aware I don’t deal with the smartest humans on the planet, but I seemed to have my share today.
gwangung
@asiangrrlMN: Yeah, it sucks when you run into folks on your own side whose head aren’t screwed on straight when it comes to culture.
On the other hand, there’s a non-zero chance that you can make them see the light (or at least clue them in on your perspective). And they do have the grace to be embarassed…
Mnemosyne
@asiangrrlMN:
I think it got kinda out of control between two commenters and people felt they had to chime in to agree about the alleged weirdness when they probably shouldn’t have. Fortunately, the people who actually understood the ceremony were very level-headed and managed to talk that first guy down so he could calm down and apologize.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: It’s Cole’s “I’m not watching the speech” thread. It wasn’t toxic per se. I just didn’t feel so great after reading it. As for work, I hope tomorrow is better.
@gwangung: True. They were able to have a discussion about it, which is good, I guess. Just, not really in the mood for that tonight.
@Mnemosyne: Well, that part, yes. It got resolved on one side.
freelancer
@Yutsano:
Hey, as an aside, was I off? Shit got bad, and I was there in the middle, and yet I felt like the meta of the whole night was that we heard a message of justice, of humanism, holding us to a higher standard, and all I did was address the person saying “Fuck fuck motherfuck!” for the sake of tone and suddenly I’ve got mud on my face. Tell me, as a lurker how it came out.
asiangrrlMN
On a wildly different topic, I’m trying to regulate my sleep pattern. I’m aiming to be in bed by 3 a.m. So, if you see me commenting after that time (Central mumble mumble Time), please remind me not-so-gently to go to bed. Thanks.
@freelancer: You were fine. Most people were fine. I think emotions were all over the map throughout the whole thread. At least, that’s what I tell myself. Shorter: It wasn’t you.
Mnemosyne
And, yes, I do realize how ironic it is for me to be calling for civility. :-p
John - A Motley Moose
@Mnemosyne: I plead guilty. I could have found a more civil way to make my point. I didn’t participate in that other thread, but I read quite a few comments and was getting pissed off about it. Then I came here and vented before I calmed down. I guess I was channeling my inner Cole.
Mnemosyne
@asiangrrlMN:
I think the original offender understood why what he said was offensive and was genuinely sorry, but once a thread explodes like that, it’s hard to smooth everything over. Having been the Stupid White Person myself (more than once) I can empathize with wanting to slink away and pretend it never happened, but it’s always a bad idea to try and do that.
J. Michael Neal
I’m watching the service now. I thought the invocation was marvelous. In addition to not thinking it was nutty, I didn’t even get the sense of discomfort in front of that size crowd, either. I thought it was comfortable, and beautiful.
The university president isn’t as good, but nothing terrible.
Suffern ACE
@Mark S.: I think a better summary would be “I will fart in this room of civility and I won’t say excuse me, and if you say I’m rude, I will belch.”
asiangrrlMN
@Mnemosyne: Oh, I meant he resolved it (TR), but she wasn’t willing to let it go. And, I don’t find you particularly uncivil–except to mclaren. Heh.
freelancer
@asiangrrlMN:
Well, thanks for the vote of confidence. Who knew a singularly great speech by a popularly elected Democratic President would drive the reactionaries out of the woodwork?
Mnemosyne
@John – A Motley Moose:
No worries. I think the thread started to be productive right around, oh, comment 350 or so, so you may not have gotten that far.
I think it’s a good conversation to have if we can avoid telling each other to fuck off while we’re having it. Especially since you know the president is going to get all kinds of flak tomorrow for having a non-Christian benediction and also for actually giving a nod to teh ebbil gays when he included life partners with other spouses.
Having Anne Laurie’s explanation on the front page for us stupid white people will help, I think.
Mark S.
@WarMunchkin:
That was a good piece by Taibbi, and a lot more introspective than you’ll probably see anywhere else.
I think the way the right wing tries to dehumanize its opponents is a lot more poisonous than anything else, and I think Palin is more guilty of this than any other major politician. She insinuates in every one of her speeches that people who aren’t like her aren’t real Americans. The first time I heard her speak at the convention, all I could think was that she sounded exactly like Limbaugh. There is never anything inspiring or uplifting; it’s all enemies all the time. Shit, Nixon was before my time but I don’t think even he gave off such a vibe of paranoia and resentment.
I’m babbling, so it’s off to bed.
Mnemosyne
@asiangrrlMN:
I’ve gotten myself into that riled state so, again, I can empathize, but after a certain point you really have to let it go. And go to sleep, like I’m about to do right now. Ahem. Hint hint.
Comrade Mary
Apropos of absolutely nothing, a little pet-oriented treat for anyone still awake. Hint hint.
Yutsano
@Mnemosyne: Sleep sounds decent, and I’d indulge if it weren’t laundry night. I’m tired too, slept like crap the past two nights. Hoping things get better tomorrow.
@asiangrrlMN: Sleep. 39 minutes. Or I’ll sic a Dawg or two on you. I gots connections you know.
asiangrrlMN
@Mark S.: You got it. And, night!
@Mnemosyne: Night to you, too. I hear you (on your hint as well!).
@freelancer: For what it’s worth, I don’t think you have to worry about tone in general.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: I’m eating cereal right now. And, just so you know, threatening to sic Dawgs after me is likely to keep me up.
@Comrade Mary: I find the uncanny valley to be a bit creepy, but the cartoon is funny. I get your hint as well!
ETA: By the way, people, what part of ‘after 3 a.m. bug me to go to bed’ do you not understand?
Anne Laurie
@Mnemosyne: __
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I didn’t want to re-start a conversation that got snippy, I think, because it’s been a bad week for a lot of us. But on the other hand, I think it was genuine not-understanding of how “other” religious traditions differ from what most of us are mostly used to. Like Scout visiting her nanny’s African-American church for the first time — we don’t intend to be rude, but we might come off as clueless.
And, y’know, I have to be the official Person of Faith front-pager, in case any of the local Atheists Militant need a target, or some drive-by troll wishes to assert falsely that all us Juicers are dirty filthy non-believers. :}
WarMunchkin
@Mark S.: I really liked it. But as caustic as Taibbi’s writing is, I can’t help but think, come on, there’s no way he’s the problem, even though he “is”. I’m not sure how I’m supposed to disagree with a right-winger “civilly” at this time. It’s one thing if you’re friends or something, if you disagree on some issue, you disagree and move on to doing something fun like playing video games or sports. If you disagree with your family members, life goes on, unless it doesn’t and you get a divorce or something. In politics it’s not that simple – the disagreements can be had, but after that there are decisions you have to make and, without meaning to be too reductionist, the stakes are so high.
So I understand the call for being nice, but one can make the argument that any degree of retaliation or indicating hypocrisy – rather than simple hyperbole or maximalism – is inherently an act of incivility.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: I just ate some chocolate Cheerios after dinner (a sort of southeast Asian inspired chicken satay dish over rice, I think Amir-Khalid would be appalled) so I noshed right there with you too. And I haz to get up early AGAIN tomorrow to pick up car tabs so I r all good & legal & shtuff. If not for laundry I think I would be zonked.
freelancer
@asiangrrlMN:
This after quite the crude dick joke last night. Thanks, hon. I don’t want to censor myself, nor do I want anything to do with policing what others write. However, I am a skeptic, and I do have a bullshit detector, and I will use it, not as a sledgehammer, but as a scalpel.
asiangrrlMN
@Yutsano: Chocolate Cheerios? I did not know they existed. Huh. I had honey rice cereal with almond milk and a sliced-up banana. I am really trying to adhere to the no-dairy, no-wheat thing, but it’s not easy at all.
Yawn. I may actually make the 3 a.m. bedtime call.
freelancer
@Yutsano:
You should take a look at this Adam Savage lecture on the value of Failure.
Chocolate cheerios, facing your worst demons, it’s all fodder for comedy, or at the very least, humility. I’m off to down a bowl of MaltOMeal’s generic Cinnamon Toast Crunch equivalent. Night all.
JMY
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20028356-503544.html
You can’t make this shit up.
asiangrrlMN
@JMY: Gaaaaaaaaaaah! My eyes! They will never be the same. Next time, please note you are posting a link that includes Marc Ambinder’s rank stupidity!
@Suffern ACE: Gaaaaaah! And, I just read it again! I think this is sufficient to drive me to bed! Night, all. If I have bad dreams about Sarah Palin, I’m blaming JMY.
Suffern ACE
@JMY:
And that makes her presidential and the most prominent Republican how?
JMY
@asiangrrlMN:
LOL, sorry. It didn’t cross my mind to give a warning. I just had to post this. I had to re-read it a few times because I just couldn’t believe someone said that.
@Suffern ACE:
He actually said the President’s speech might not live up to expectations and that he was facing a difficult task. This is Obama we are talking about who has given numerous speeches.
asiangrrlMN
@JMY: OK. You are forgiven. I understand the, “What the fuck? Did he just say what I think he said?” impulse. Still, if La Palina enters my dream tonight, I’m holding you accountable.
Night, everybody.
ETA: Or Marc Ambinder, for that matter. Or, FSM forbid, both.
Ija
@JMY:
Presidential? I guess if you think being marinated in self pity is being presidential. Ambinder has gotten crazier since he moved to National Journal.
Yutsano
@asiangrrlMN: Let your boys tuck you in and rest well hon. Headed that way myself.
Suffern ACE
@JMY: I got that. It would have been an easy speech to mess up. He could have, well, I don’t know…mentioned how he was proposing another round of infrastructure spending in memory of the victims. But he isn’t that unconventional.
She laid no trap for him. She appears to have laid a trap for Armbinder though.
Nellcote
@WarMunchkin:
James Fallows has a couple of posts up trying to work through this problem. I think one of the suggestions was to debate/make your points as though someone you care about and respect is watching.
THE
I caught another nuance, maybe I’m dreaming.
But reciting his past like that, brings the sacred ancestors into our presence.
Imagine a ceremony, where everyone recited their history like that.
It’s purpose is to transcend the limits of time and place.
All of us stand surrounded, at solemn moments, by the living and the dead. The present and our past.
Then, invoking the cardinal points of the compass, and the male and female powers of sky and earth, is a drawing together of Nature’s power and strength from all directions of time and space
He draws it all together, and asks the creator to direct it to bless and heal all the living.
Lysana
@THE: Not dreaming. That is part of the point. Lots of aboriginal faiths honor the ancestors. It’s a factor in many neopagan traditions for that reason.
bob h
I don’t believe any Republican leader wants to see actual violence. But the implied threat of violence by their unhinged elements is useful for them. If you have no interest in governance, if your ideas cannot gain traction by themselves, intimidation of your opponents is a useful tool.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Ija: I disagree. That’s an insult to the Catholic Church not Catholics. Given that we know that the church has, as an institution, worked to enable pedophiles within its ranks, that’s not an unreasonable insult to make.
lllphd
anne laurie, thank you so much for that explanation about “building up the church.” of course; it makes perfect sense.
folks today have completely lost this sense of reverence and sanctification, these sense of the sacred and spirit. it’s embarrassing that so many here could be so callous and disrespectful.
shame on you guys; you know who you are.
polyorchnid octopunch
@Comrade Mary: Leaders of countries do tend to age a lot faster while they’re on the job. It’s something I’ve noticed over the last few decades.
lllphd
and wow, thanks for the h/t on the esquire essay! most excellent catch.
that bottom line – they do it because it works – might be modified to say, they do it because they get away with it.
well, we could all easily decide to not allow it to work anymore. the next time we see such threatening language – and this is the point, and we all know what it looks like – we should call the police.
the police will come. the sign carrier will assert free speech. we will say we feel threatened, nonetheless; you are not free to threaten me, there are laws against threatening people with physical violence.
it would be interesting to watch what happens with that.
PIGL
@bob h: Call and raise.
The value of the implied threat is much much much greater if real violence takes place now and then. In fact, the threats and posturing are pointless otherwise. It’s like (I imagine) bluffing in poker….sometimes, you gotta have that ace in the hole.
In the case of the charming gentle knights to whom you refer, the ace is a nation 25% composed of heavily armed viscious pricks with mental illnesses or personality disorders, kept on howling standby — like junkyard dogs — by the media empires they control.
But heavens, no actual violence, please. Meh.
JD Rhoades
@BR:
I’m avoiding my usual habit of reading the comments section in my local paper’s website for just that reason. I don’t want to get all pissed off again.
Smurfhole
@John – A Motley Moose:
Sure. Maybe they could’ve had an atheist service in which they mocked the religious beliefs of the dead 9-year-old Catholic girl and her Catholic family. You could’ve conducted it. That would’ve been very respectful.
Smurfhole
@polyorchnid octopunch:
Every individual priest is not a pedophile. To imply otherwise is an insult to every individual priest.
The anti-Catholic bigotry around here would be right at home in 19th century Know-Nothing party meetings.
georgia pig
One of Obama’s best speeches but, of course, I’m an Obot. While Reagan and Clinton could be pretty good at this kind of speech, Obama tends to be better because he’s less sentimental and clicheic than the former and less lip-biting emo than the latter. It was comedic watching Gerson on CNN trying to dis a speech (more like damning with faint praise) that he would have given his left nut to be able to write and deliver. He really should consider a coiffure upgrade.
I thought the Yaqui blessing was uniquely Arizonan and the celebratory tone was great, but it seems like some folks expect everything to be scripted like a movie. Got to give credit to Brewer, she was gracious. I sensed that this thing has touched something in her, considering her struggles with her own son’s mental illness and, frankly, seeing a fellow local pol get shot has to be pretty sobering. I can imagine she winces when they call the shooter “just a nut.”
Maybe we should give the wingnuts a brief breather, they may be frustrated because a couple of their top dogs, Palin and Boehner, really blew chunks yesterday.
Benjamin Cisco
I’m glad that President Obama said what he did, and I’m fine with the Yaqui blessing – sort of a primer for those without the knowledge and blessing all in one. In my opinion, exactly what was needed given all the nonsense we’ve had to listen to regarding so-called “REAL Americans.”
__
I must admit that Palin surprised me. Not because she ducked the issue for as long as she did, and not because she made a prissy, preening, drama queen out of herself (again) when she did – all part of her modus operandi. No, what totally blew me away was the depth of her delusional response. I find myself wondering, from an anthropological standpoint, if there is any limit to this sort of behavior on her part; if there is any point at which she will realize that a “victory” on her part will be Pyrrhic in nature.
SueinNM
@Smurfhole
Wow. So you’re accusing people of criticizing Catholics, then turn around and suggest that atheists would use a memorial service to put down the religious.
See any hypocrisy there?
eemom
Look, y’all, I have no wish to revisit this — but if you go back and read that thread you will see that I was personally attacked by others, after TR and I were done with it.
I was NOT the one who wouldn’t let it drop. I just don’t take kindly to gratuitous, after the fact insults by people I wasn’t even arguing with in the first place.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but some people on this blog have a way of interjecting themselves into an argument, FOR NO OTHER REASON than to insult one of the parties to the argument. That’s some pretty low shit, IMO.
eemom
…..and btw I was the ONLY one calling out the Native American bashing in real time, until Cacti showed up.
If that equals saying FuckfuckfuckfuckFUCK to you, “freelancer”, you’re the one with communication issues.
Stefan
An excellent book I once read explained the basic differences between Australia and the USA by noting that we got the scammers and religious fanatics and they got the criminals and whores.
Is it too late to swap?
Stefan
An excellent book I once read explained the basic differences between Australia and the USA by noting that we got the scammers and religious fanatics and they got the criminals and whores.
An interesting subject for a book would be to compare Canada, the US and Australia’s differing socio-political cultures through the lens of which groups settled them.
Stefan
Sure. Maybe they could’ve had an atheist service in which they mocked the religious beliefs of the dead 9-year-old Catholic girl and her Catholic family. You could’ve conducted it. That would’ve been very respectful.
The depth of anti-atheist bigotry around here would be right at home in a 15th century Inquisition chamber.
Smurfhole
@SueinNM:
Why not? Plenty of them are using the comments here to do it.
Nope. Thanks for asking, though.
Smurfhole
@Stefan:
That would make sense, if it weren’t written on a blog where every main page poster who’s stated an opinion on it is an atheist (except Anne Laurie, who’s a pagan), and on which 90% of the commentariat are vocal atheists.
Try again. Harder.
Stefan
That would make sense, if it weren’t written on a blog where every main page poster who’s stated an opinion on it is an atheist (except Anne Laurie, who’s a pagan), and on which 90% of the commentariat are vocal atheists.
Oh, please, climb down off the cross. 90% of the commentariat here are hardly “vocal atheists” (whatever that means — is there a separate category of unvocal atheists?). The proportion of atheists here is probably higher than in the general population, given that atheism increases in direct proportion to education levels and this is a highly educated, literate and intellectually curious crowd, but I’d still bet that the vast majority of commenters here have some religious leanings.
Smurfhole
@Stefan:
I’m fairly tired of reading the knee-jerk anti-Catholicism around here. If you don’t like reading my reaction, block my comments. Put me on the pie filter or something, I don’t care. It’s not as if though we have anything particularly interesting to say to one another anyway- you have nothing to teach me about atheism, and you already think you know everything there is to know about Catholicism so who am I to waste time discussing that one with you any further?
Sure, the lurkers might all be Catholics for all I know. 90% of the commentariat who voice opinions on the matter are atheists. If the lurkers are atheists, they’d be unvocal ones. So yes, there is a separate category.
Ah, so you’re appealing to the “silent majority” now, then. Well, where is that silent majority when the vocal atheist minority bashes religion? You posited their existence, you tell me.
Stefan
That would make sense, if it weren’t written on a blog where every main page poster who’s stated an opinion on it is an atheist (except Anne Laurie, who’s a pagan), and on which 90% of the commentariat are vocal atheists.
And secondly, what does it even matter what the front page posters or “90% of the commentariat” believe? I was specifically criticizing something you yourself wrote. You have to take responsibility for your own words, it’s completely irrelevant what others may or may not believe.
Smurfhole
Because you wrote it on this blog, which is a cesspool of militant atheism.
In the context of where I wrote it, which was on this blog.
Actually, no it’s not. It’s on this blog, so saying what you said in the context of it occurring on this blog makes no sense.
Stefan
Because you wrote it on this blog, which is a cesspool of militant atheism.
I think we have a new front page motto! “A cesspool of militant atheism” — I like it. Almost as good as “Shock troops for the Unitarian Jihad.”
Smurfhole
@Stefan:
I thought of that as I wrote it, truth be told. It’s also more accurate than the Unitarian one, because I think we only have 3 or 4 Unitarians around here (I was raised Unitarian, not sure if that counts or not).
debbie
Dershowitz speaks of blood libel:
http://biggovernment.com/publius/2011/01/12/exclusive-alan-dershowitz-defends-sarah-palins-use-of-term-blood-libel/
polyorchnid octopunch
@Smurfhole: But they all support pedophiles, via their support of a bureaucratic institution that has protected and enabled pedophiles for decades. That includes the local bishops of both the catholic and anglican dioceses here, btw.
Don’t like it? Stop supporting the criminal organisation known as the catholic church.
If you can’t draw the distinction between catholics and the people that work within their church, well, I suggest you hook it up with the “all criticism if Israel is anti-semitism!” crowd… you’ll get along just fine.
Smurfhole
@polyorchnid octopunch:
By the same rationale, your payment of tax dollars makes you personally culpable for the Bush invasion of Iraq.
Don’t like it? Stop supporting the criminal organization known as the United States government. If you haven’t emigrated to Europe yet, you’re a criminal.
The people that work within their church are also overwhelmingly Catholic. I’m not responsible for your sloppy misuse of the English language. I still can’t figure out what the Hell you’re talking about, whether every Catholic in the world is pure evil, or just every Catholic who goes to Church, or just every Catholic who works in the Church (including Jesuits out in the missions whose political views are probably 10 degrees to the left of yours), or just this abstract institution you don’t like.