Yeah, But What Have They Done for Me LATELY?

The NYTimes reports that “Republicans Block U.S. Health Aid for 9/11 Workers“:

Republican senators blocked Democratic legislation on Thursday that sought to provide medical care to rescue workers and others who became ill as a result of breathing in toxic fumes, dust and smoke at the site of the World Trade Center attack in 2001.
__
The 9/11 health bill, a version of which was approved by the House of Representatives in September, was among several initiatives that Senate Democrats had hoped to approve before the close of the 111th Congress. Supporters believe this was their last real opportunity to have the bill passed…
__
There are nearly 60,000 people enrolled in health monitoring and treatment programs related to the 9/11 attacks, according to the sponsors of the bill. The federal government provides the bulk of the money for those programs.

The article prompted a great many comments, of course, including this highlighted gem from skater242 — nj:

While it is true that the Federal Gov’t should bare some responsibility for the cost of caring for those who cared so much for us, I feel that enough is enough already.
__
Having lived a block away from the site, i have hundreds of pictures of rescue workers in shorts, short-sleeve t-shirts, no headgear, no breathing devices/filters, nothing on their hands or any other exposed area where toxic materials can easily seep into the body and for this carelessness, i am supposed to pay for these people’s healthcare for the rest of their lives?
__
Aren’t most covered thru their jobs? Therefore their healthcare should be paid for by their carriers and not by the taxpayer who, incidentally supports their assault on the pension systems of NY State?

Pivoting from platitudinous piety to victim-blaming to dumping responsibility on some anyone-not-me amalgam of talking points — all in four sentences!

Building intelligent bots to churn out this kind of anti-American slush would be a waste of money, when there are morans who’ll do the same job for nothing.






143 replies
  1. 1
    Mike Kay (Team America) says:

    Guess this means the gop won’t be holding their convention in NYC to exploit 9/11 any time soon.

  2. 2
    Triassic Sands says:

    Thank heaven the Republicans have the courage to stand up to those 9/11 parasites and shout “NO MORE!”

    The GOP can always be counted on to identify the vermin in our society (the poor, disabled, sick, unemployed, etc.) and defend the rich against their insatiable appetites.

  3. 3
    Mike Kay (Team America) says:

    you have to wonder if comments like this are real or fake grass roots by staffers at Freedom Works and by pros at PR firms funded by the Koch Brothers.

  4. 4
    El Cid says:

    That’s a good point. Why the fuck did we waste all this money paying for medical treatment for WWII vets who did things like drink and smoke and thus put taxpayers on the hook for something they did a long time ago?

  5. 5
    Unabogie says:

    Ground Zero is HALLOWED GROUND!!!

    The people who plucked remains from the smoldering ruins, making themselves sick from the air and debris?

    Not so hallowed, apparently.

  6. 6
    gnomedad says:

    But, but … we already have “Remember 9/11” bumper stickers on our Land Rovers! Will these people never be satisfied?

  7. 7
    Chris Grrr says:

    Nobody forced ’em to be firefighters and cops.

    /snark

  8. 8
    DonkeyKong says:

    I’m going to bed tonight with the image of the GOP representatives being herded into a room for a bolshevik style “group picture”

    wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.

  9. 9
    Mike Kay (Team America) says:

    Time to put another yellow ribbon, flag, and “we’ll never forget” sticker on my Hummer.

  10. 10
    jwb says:

    @El Cid: Not to mention recklessly flying airplanes into enemy airspace or charging machine gun nests. I mean they didn’t expect to get injured. Give me a break.

  11. 11
    beltane says:

    That comment you highlighted really points to an attitude that plagues many Americans, not just conservatives. It is that when any kind of misfortune strikes someone, it must be their fault in some way. We can all be rich and healthy and live forever and ever if we just think positively and do everything 100% right. People who have it good never stop to appreciate how lucky they are while those who don’t have it good are told it’s their own damn fault.

    This way of thinking is a serious flaw in the national character. The ancients were aware that fortune is blind, but all conservatives and too many non-conservatives are too lacking in humility to see this.

  12. 12
    beltane says:

    @DonkeyKong: A Romanov style group picture would make me happier.

  13. 13
    jl says:

    About the only bright side I can think of, is that the GOP may delude itself into the ‘the people’ want this sort of thing, based on a voter turnout in the midterms biased towards their Tea People, who support this kind of viciousness.

    If that is the case, then the wilder the GOP gets over the next two years, the less likely we are to have results in 2012 similar to those of the midterms.

    Maybe I am deluding myself. Maybe the US has turned into a nation of frightened selfish sociopaths with the moral and mental development of a spoiled three year old. But I hope I am wrong.

  14. 14
    Maude says:

    @jl:
    2 year old as in terrible twos.

  15. 15
    jonas says:

    It’s only fair. On 9/11, the first responders made their way up the first ten flights of stairs of the WTC and, realizing it was, like, totally, a 100-story building, said “enough it enough already! Screw this shit. Let’s get the fuck out of here!”

    And as the buildings crashed down upon them that day, burying hundreds of their comrades, they held their face in their hands and wept: “Dear God! Why was the marginal tax rate so high? Why!?!”

    Kaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhnnnnnn!

  16. 16
    Captain Haddock says:

    911 is so 2001, people. The real heroes are tea party activists who spill their blood via anonymous internet comments.

  17. 17
    Warren Terra says:

    Yup, this story is a good one to talk about – but there’s another story in today’s New York Times story of the day that this site should be talking about, via Ezra Klein, this one: Mixing Drinks, Adding Class; first three paragraphs are:

    Her studio apartment in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, is just shy of 400 square feet, barely enough room for an Ikea open-shelf bookcase, a chocolate-brown tufted couch, a full-size bed and her brindle-coated Shih Tzu, Charlie.
    __
    So when Claudia Argiro, 33, gave a holiday party last Saturday night, she pared down her guest list to about two dozen of her closest friends, hid the TV behind an industrial column wrapped with holiday lights and turned the media console into a bar.
    __
    But one thing she had to have was a bartender. “I’m an adult now, living by myself, and this is my sh-bam, my moment,” said Ms. Argiro, who runs a clothing boutique nearby called Charlie and Sam.

    Note that headline: “Adding Class“. The thing to do among not-extraordinarily-well-off (but terribly pretentious) middle-class young professionals in New York is to be seen employing servants — and I don’t mean employing professionals to do things you can’t, I mean the ostentatious employment of some poor schmuck to do something that doesn’t even need doing, purely as a matter of display.

    It does remind me of the single best typo — or possibly a non-typo — I saw in the New York Times this week: in a story that was basically about the class divide, and the great advantages going to the top side of the class divide, there was a reference to the beer-drinking hoi palloi, followed by a reference to “the wining class”. Note that it works as spelled, but it also works as “the winning class” or even as “the whining class”. Pure genius, to my mind. And now I can’t find it, or I’d link to it.

  18. 18
    Teri says:

    Okay, I have had it. John was right. Oh God I can’t believe I am saying that, but he is about being a republican any more. I am planning on resigning my membership tomorrow as well as my position on county committee and talking my money as well. I plan 6 to 8 fund raisers a year for the local republicans. I raise between 100 to 250k but they can forget it now. This is the straw that broke the back
    I am ashamed of the Republican Party. How can they justify not extending unemployment due to the deficit and then turn around hold hostage the middle class to give the richest people in this country more money that will add to the deficit? How can they be proud patriots and then not support healthcare for the people who risked their lives to rescue anyone after 9/11? This is not the Republican Party I proudly joined when I turned 18. I wanted to be part of the party that was fiscally responsible, the party of Lincoln. The leaders of the Republican Party chose to ignore one of the basic tenets that government is there to give people a hand up rather than a hand out. Instead of a hand extended to those in need it is busily shoveling money into the pockets of the CEOs who have downsized our economy. How can we look into the eyes of our neighbors and justify not helping? How can we further support them by voting for them again when their priorities are not actually serving the all the people? I still want to be a Republican but I don’t want to belong to this Republican Party anymore.

  19. 19
    jwb says:

    @beltane: I might be wrong, and maybe it will turn out that Faux will convince everyone that we have always been at war with 9/11workers, but I can’t help thinking that the optics on this are just terrible for the goopers. Let’s hope this is a sign of how they plan to play politics for the next two years. It might make the Dems’ past two years look brilliant in retrospect.

  20. 20

    @Triassic Sands: But of course. The poor, sick, disabled, etc… are clearly out of favor with God. If they weren’t, they’d be rich and successful. Obviously God doesn’t like them, so we are doing God’s work when we beat them down.

  21. 21
    DonkeyKong says:

    A Romanov style group picture would make me happier.

    I was trying to be subtle with quotes around group picture, so I’ll add, a M61 Vulcan cannon (cannon’s are camera’s right?) should “capture” a wide shot.

    wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more.

  22. 22
    jwb says:

    @Teri: ok, so why do you still want to be a Republican? This is not snark. I’d honestly like to know, since your rationale for not liking the Republican party—it reads rather like a Democratic Party statement.

  23. 23
    pablo says:

    In the immortal words of GWB….WGAF!

  24. 24
    jl says:

    @Teri: I used to tell my moderate Republican relatives to stay in the party and fight the good fight to reclaim the party for constructive and sensible conservatism.

    I can’t say that to them anymore. It seems hopeless for that party.

    If something cannot reform the GOP, it will die. The only thing is whether the enraged dying GOP elephant will take us all with it.

  25. 25
    Gus says:

    @Teri: Is this for real?

  26. 26

    This might be a good time to go into the discount undertaking business. I think that’s part of the Republican jobs plan. First they kill off a bunch of poor people. That gives a boost to the grave-digging workers and low end funeral homes. Then there’s the added benefit that the lower-end of the job market has the highest unemployment. Win-win all the way.

    I used to think hard-core Republicans were heartless bastards. I’ve revised that. I don’t think they are heartless. I think they enjoy doing this shit, pure sadism.

  27. 27
    J. Michael Neal says:

    @Teri: Welcome to the Rebellion. You’ll find that our secret base isn’t so much hidden as it is on lots of little moons all over the place, none of which are large enough to sustain serious operations.

    Did you at least bring a wookie with you?

  28. 28
    Dennis SGMM says:

    @Teri:
    Welcome aboard!

  29. 29
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @DonkeyKong:

    nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more.

    Fix’t.

    Ya did it twice and I couldn’t let it stand…lol! True MPFC lover here.

  30. 30
    beltane says:

    @Warren Terra: The NYT’s lifestyle stories have long been vomit inducing. It is amazing how they always manage to find the most unlikeable people imaginable to write about.

  31. 31
    curious says:

    @Teri: welcome. i’m sure some progressive candidates in your area would be thrilled to take advantage of your fundraising experience, if you ever feel so inclined.

  32. 32
    kdaug says:

    @El Cid: Some of them were fat, too.

  33. 33
    Betsy says:

    Sept 18, 2001: “EPA’s Whitman says air and water at Ground Zero are safe.”

    To skater242 in NJ: Perhaps those brave workers in t-shirts and shorts with no lung protection actually believed their government when they were told that they weren’t in danger.

    And you did what to help? Besides looking at pictures?

  34. 34
    kdaug says:

    @beltane: Ascots and bowties, all in a row.

  35. 35
    Ozymandias, King of Ants says:

    Clearly if the first responders had done their jobs properly, those buildings would still standing.

    /snark

  36. 36
    DonkeyKong says:

    My hovercraft is full of eels!

  37. 37
    Dee Loralei says:

    @Teri: Teri, welcome to the dark side. :-) We’re fun over here, whiney, but fun.

  38. 38
    Ozymandias, King of Ants says:

    @DonkeyKong: Drop your panties Sir William, I cannot wait till lunchtime!

  39. 39
    Martin says:

    @jwb: I had an interesting conversation with a coworker the other day who professed to wanting to be a Republican, but couldn’t bear to do it. Basically, she wanted to believe that the public didn’t need a safety net, didn’t need regulation, didn’t need the various measures that Republicans oppose.

    “Um, yeah, but they do – and as soon as we left a subsistence life, that was inevitable here and in every other country.”

    She said, “But I don’t want it to be that way!”

    “Tough shit. It is that way. It’s not that we’re weak or bad, its that we’re all better off with Medicaid and semiconductors than all rooting around in our own turnip patches.”

  40. 40
    Drouse says:

    It really is all their fault. The should have known instantly the the Bush EPA was lying to them about ,well, everything.

  41. 41
    suzanne says:

    I told a friend of mine that I expect the Senate GOP to take a field trip to a daycare center tomorrow and beat the children. And on Saturday, they’re gonna go to a nursing home and push the old people over. I mean, how else could they top all the good they did today?

  42. 42
    hamletta says:

    Welcome to the fight, Teri (if that is your real name). This time I know we will win.

    OK, obviously sk8r dude isn’t up on his recent history. I remember the bombshell revelation about how the government had lied to those workers and told them it was safe when they’d been working in a toxic soup the whole time.

    It was Summer, 2003. I was setting up a Dean Meetup and we had the TV on in the bar. Everybody just stopped and stared at the tube in horror.

    So yeah, he probably does have pictures of workers dressed inappropriately. Because they didn’t know.

  43. 43
    The Dangerman says:

    @John – A Motley Moose:

    I think they enjoy doing this shit, pure sadism.

    Republicans, when they go home, are greeted by:

    “Honey, how many liberals did you piss off today?”

    If it:

    a) Costs money

    and

    b) Doesn’t kill brown people

    They aren’t interested.

  44. 44
    WereBear says:

    @beltane: Oh, heavens, this a thousand times.

    We have an irreducible minimum of monkeysee-monkeydo percentages who cannot think unless a thousand others do that same thing.

    But they do not progress the human condition one millimeter.

  45. 45
    Teri says:

    @jwb: And to everyone else. Why was I republican for 30+ years despite being raised in a democratic household: First I was 18, I joined cause the guy I like in college was a young republican and hormones can make you do stupid things. Second to piss off my Dad who was a big time Democrat in Philadelphia area politics. Third the romance of being the party of Roosevelt (the good cousin), Lincoln and Rockafeller. Why did I stay a Republican during the “Christianist” movement, cause I am a stubborn bitch, and I would have been damned that all the hard work that I put into building contacts, making friends and working to put smart, reasonable people in office would be swept away by the “christian” right. (As a Catholic I have fought tooth and nail with fellow parishioners about politics and church participation, I even staged a walk-out at my church when a visitng priest started to lecture us on voting…I loudly stated “I came for God, not politics” as I left.) I am married to man in the defense industry so our contacts have been republican in nature. It made good business sense to be republican. Yes I am for real, and I fully intend to work for progressive candidates from now on. I also plan on sending my letter to the paper as well. Our area has been hard hit by foreclosure, unemployment etc so I hope to garner some support. I also plan on talking to my cohorts in fundraising (they also think like me to some extent) and try to stage a large protest.

  46. 46
    hamletta says:

    @suzanne: “James Inhofe is Tommy Udo in…Kiss of Death 2010!”

  47. 47
    Anne Laurie says:

    @suzanne:

    I told a friend of mine that I expect the Senate GOP to take a field trip to a daycare center tomorrow and beat the children. And on Saturday, they’re gonna go to a nursing home and push the old people over. I mean, how else could they top all the good they did today?

    No, I think tomorrow is Puppy-Kicking Day. As pious Christianists, they’re saving the child-beating for Sunday… you know, “suffer the little children”? They’re all about other people suffering!

  48. 48
    Jim, Once says:

    @Teri:

    C’mere, sweetie. Of course you feel that way. You’re obviously a good person who simply wants simple kindness and the Right Thing to be done. As do we all here. I’m just so glad you felt you could post here.

  49. 49
    Teri says:

    Ummm, I don’t have a wookie but my 15 year old son has a Solo/Chewbacca 2012 shirt. And being on the dark side does that mean I can skip the sunscreen. And yes Teri is my real name.

  50. 50
    The Dangerman says:

    @Teri:

    I also plan on talking to my cohorts in fundraising (they also think like me to some extent) and try to stage a large protest.

    I admire the plunk and your position, but, sadly, in a post Citizens United world, I’m not sure it matters.

  51. 51
    Mike in NC says:

    Building intelligent bots to churn out this kind of anti-American slush would be a waste of money, when there are morans who’ll do the same job for nothing.

    Plenty of people out there actually believe the top 2% richest shouldn’t pay any taxes at all because they produce the jobs the rest of us toil away at. An amazing level of stupidity and self-delusion.

  52. 52
    jl says:

    We need to be fair and balanced on this here blog.

    Let’s start with Senator Kent Conrad (D) North Dakota

    We Are Ruled By Evil Stupid People

    ABC headline Sen. Conrad: Extend All Tax Cuts; Time to Get ‘Serious’ About Deficit
    http://www.eschatonblog.com/20.....eople.html

    From the linked ABC article:
    The White House conceded that in order to get the middle class tax cuts passed in the lame duck session they would need to agree to extend all of them – the Huffington Post reported – and they will have the full support of Sen. Kent Conrad.

    (snip)

    Conrad said he will take a tough vote on reducing the deficit and realizes that some will have to take a political hit in order to push the recommendations through.

    My comment: One of the programs that Conrad says has to ‘be on the table’ is Social Security. I guess voting to cut the retirement that the ‘lesser people’ of any working age are relying on for their future is tougher than voting to (Edit) CONTINUE (not deny as originally typed) an unproductive tax cut for rich people that did not do what it was advertised to do.

    That kind of vote would be tough for me to cast too, since it would be both vicious and senseless. Yep, that would be one tough vote for me to make were I Senator. But Conrad is made of sterner stuff than I am.

    Did Conrad vote yes on the Senate version today that, as I heard on the radio news, added MORE tax cut sweeteners to the deal, mostly for corporations? I will make that a little research project later this week.

  53. 53
    Jim, Once says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    I feel bad that I laughed – really loud – at this.

  54. 54

    @Teri:

    Why did I stay a Republican during the “Christianist” movement, cause I am a stubborn bitch

    Well you should fit in quite well here (meant as a compliment, really).

  55. 55
    jwb says:

    @Teri: The family business in particular makes a lot of sense to me. My dad was a Republican for years primarily because it was good for his business (not the policies, the contacts). He turned Democrat when the Goopers nominated GWB, whom for whatever reason he simply detested. Now I think my dad may well be farther left than I am. Go figure. In any case, as other have said, welcome to the fight.

  56. 56
    Teri says:

    @arguingwithsignposts: Yeah, came to that conclusion earlier. You people argue the strangest things and get so twisted up on little stuff. But it is not boring.

  57. 57
    Jim, Once says:

    @Teri:

    As a Catholic I have fought tooth and nail with fellow parishioners about politics and church participation, I even staged a walk-out at my church when a visitng priest started to lecture us on voting…I loudly stated “I came for God, not politics” as I left.

    Wow. OK. Now I’m in love. Please, please don’t be a troll who suddenly turns on us.

  58. 58
    YellowJournalism says:

    That comment is the reason DIAF was created and added to the BJ lexicon.

    Spoof, perhaps? Even then, it’s still pretty nasty.

  59. 59
    Maody says:

    the meek shall literally inherit the earth by falling into early graves. fuckers are serious sociopaths who should win darwin awards for losing the empathy gene.

  60. 60
    YellowJournalism says:

    Teri is going to be blog-married by the end of this night if he/she keeps this up.

  61. 61
    nhoj says:

    Did anybody else watch after DADT cloture failed? Guess what else was blocked?

    http://leahy.senate.gov/press/.....0ed81b8cbe

    They are going to have to find more than a preschool to rough up tomorrow, maybe an orphanage?

  62. 62
    AliceBlue says:

    @Teri: Thanks for sharing your story, Teri. It makes me feel a little better to think that maybe–just maybe–there are a few thousand people like you who might be waking up to reality. I know that’s probably not the case, but after the last couple of days, I’ll snatch at any straw that I can see.

  63. 63
    DPirate says:

    He spelled bear wrong…

    Nuff said.

  64. 64
    Gus says:

    @Teri: Well, Teri, good for you. Whatever causes the scales to fall from your eyes it’s all good.

  65. 65
    Teri says:

    @jwb: My Dad had worked for J. Everett Koop back before he became surgeon general and also worked on Dover AFB. He told me that GWB was proof that the University of California’s program to train monkeys to fly airplanes worked.

  66. 66
    mr. whipple says:

    Monsters.

  67. 67
    J. Michael Neal says:

    @jwb:

    Now I think my dad may well be farther left than I am. Go figure.

    I think that this is what we should expect. As Teri said, people hold on to their old allegiances tooth and nail to the bitter end. (True of a lot more than political parties.) They don’t switch sides as soon as their beliefs stray outside the orthodoxy of their party. They stay on a lot linger than that. Anyone who makes that sort of party switch should be expected to be well to the left of the GOP.

  68. 68
    Teri says:

    @Jim, Once: No trolls, I only play humans on WOW, I can’t barely handle being a point and click warrior. You know, hack slash pillage and burn (A good republican chickie). There are a lot more of us resonable republicans out there than you think. I think it is time for us to get off our assess and “take back our party” from the nut jobs who got us to this farce.

  69. 69
    J. Michael Neal says:

    @YellowJournalism:

    Teri is going to be blog-married by the end of this night if he/she keeps this up.

    I’m sensing polyandry here. And gay marriage in those states that allow it.

    And, you know, I’m in with that.

  70. 70
    Jim, Once says:

    @jl:

    Did Conrad vote yes on the Senate version today that, as I heard on the radio news, added MORE tax cut sweeteners to the deal, mostly for corporations? I will make that a little research project later this week

    Thank you. I’m really looking forward to that. Conrad. Such a fucker. He and his midwestern compadre, Chuckles Grassley, need to get together and whine to each other about how haaard it is to be a sensible, principled senator in an agricultural state. Conrad makes me grind my teeth; ‘my senator’ Grassley makes me want to vomit.

  71. 71
    SFAW says:

    Wow. OK. Now I’m in love. Please, please don’t be a troll who suddenly turns on us.

    Jim, Once –

    She’s happily married. Which, if she were a typical Republican (2000s-vintage, not Rocky et al. vintage), would be no barrier, of course. (Yeah, Newtie, I’m looking at you, you prick.) But since the current crop appears to be turning her stomach, I’m a-guessin’ she has some morals and integrity, and you’re going to be SOL.

  72. 72
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @beltane:

    The NYT’s lifestyle stories have long been vomit inducing. It is amazing how they always manage to find the most unlikeable people imaginable to write about.

    The subjects of these stories are usually the writers’ friends from college and prep school.

  73. 73
    Teri says:

    @J. Michael Neal: If my husband consents sure why not? I have officiated at a wiccan hand fasting as “West” for a dear friend and her partner. My being republican and catholic doesn’t mean I am not human. I truly follow Christ teaching to love my fellow man (and woman) for who they are not what I want them to be. One of the proudest moments in my life was when my oldest son said he couldn’t be confirmed in the church because of its stance on marriage equality, womans roles etc. (Some of that was my parent influence)

  74. 74
    Cain says:

    @jonas:

    Kaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhnnnnnn!

    haha, I call best in thread!

    cain

  75. 75
    Jim, Once says:

    @Teri:

    He told me that GWB was proof that the University of California’s program to train monkeys to fly airplanes worked.

    So funny! I’m starting to understand how you might have arrived at your first post here.

    There are a lot more of us resonable republicans out there than you think

    Please, please let it be so.

  76. 76

    @Teri:
    One of the things that gets lost on GOPers is that it is an immaculate propaganda machine. Take TR as an example, he is taken as a great statesman and I will not deny the good that he did, but … the GOP dumped him for it. Much of what he did in economic policy wasn’t done because it was a principle, it was done because the nation was coming un-glued. NOW the GOP will claim him, he is of course, dead and can’t defend himself.

    Eisenhower wasn’t much of an idealogue and let much of the Democratic agenda preceding him just live on. It might be worth noting that he presided over McCarthyism and his Party did nothing about it – other than cheerlead it. It was Dick Nixon’s entre to politics.

    The things you mention as being a part of Republicanism have not been so for a very long time. That’s probably the damage of near one Party rule for so long after the Civil War as plutocracy is drawn to power and makes itself at home.

    Democrats are a mess and they suck at propaganda. If you were to go back and study the media during the period they were so “liberal” you will find that history validates what they were doing. It wasn’t liberal, it was true.

    There are plenty of studies that show what has happened with federal deficits and which Presidents own what. A hint, fiscal responsibility ain’t GOP.

    I guess I’m saying welcome home after watching your comments and wondering why in hell you were willing to wear a GOP pin.

  77. 77
    sunsin says:

    @beltane:

    That comment you highlighted really points to an attitude that plagues many Americans, not just conservatives. It is that when any kind of misfortune strikes someone, it must be their fault in some way.

    It’s a universal human fault, called the “Just World fallacy.” Wikipedia:

    The just-world phenomenon, also called the just-world theory, just-world fallacy, just-world effect, or just-world hypothesis, refers to the tendency for people to want to believe that the world is fundamentally just so when they witness an otherwise inexplicable injustice they will rationalize it by searching for things that the victim might have done to deserve it. This deflects their anxiety, and lets them continue to believe the world is a just place, but often at the expense of blaming victims for things that were not, objectively, their fault.

    Another theory entails the need to protect one’s own sense of invulnerability. This inspires people to believe that rape, for example, only happens to those who deserve or provoke the assault. This is a way of feeling safer. If the potential victim avoids the behaviors of the past victims then they themselves will remain safe and feel less vulnerable.

  78. 78
    Cain says:

    @Warren Terra:

    Note that headline: “Adding Class“. The thing to do among not-extraordinarily-well-off (but terribly pretentious) middle-class young professionals in New York is to be seen employing servants—and I don’t mean employing professionals to do things you can’t, I mean the ostentatious employment of some poor schmuck to do something that doesn’t even need doing, purely as a matter of display.

    Shit, any one of my friends would be happy to do that. I got great friends. :) I’ve had a bartender at every party thanks to them.

    cain

  79. 79
    agrippa says:

    The GOP has gone pretty far to the right. I have doubts about how many people notice, or, even care.

    In the the 60s, the conflict had a subject. It was about Civil rights, vietnam, the cold war,etc. Now, there does not seem to be a subject. It seems to be about conflict, in and of itself. Maybe not.

    I have about decided it is about something ‘existential’; as if there is a half formed recognotion that it ‘just has not worked out somehow’. Perhaps this generates the fear and anger that I see in the ‘teabaggers’ and the ‘firebaggers’. Somebody has got to pay for this. Whatever ‘this’ may be.

    But, for a lot of people it is very specific: the economy/the recession

  80. 80
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Jim, Once:

    ‘my senator’ Grassley makes me want to vomit.

    Can you explain to me why Roxann Conlin didn’t gain any traction? Given the way Grassley behaved on HCR, and given that Iowa was the state that made Obama, I had high hopes that savvy people would get behind Conlin and take Grassley down a peg — like the reverse of what happened to Blanche Lincoln. But nothing even close to that came to pass. I don’t get it. I didn’t get how Elaine Marshall never got anywhere in NC either.

  81. 81
    Teri says:

    @Chuck Butcher: Lust…pure and simple. He was tall, blonde and good looking and bought me lots and lots of Jack and coke. Being the good catholic girl that I was, I was naive and learned he was an ass later. But he got me started with Jack Anderson’s campaign in 1980 and I have been working with the same group of woman for the past 30 years. So it is going to be tough but I just can’t say “I will work to make this better” cause I can work my ass off but these fools we elect don’t listen to what we have been saying. (I just mailed 1500 letters to our Senator about DADT yesterday) The state and national party hasn’t really listened to county parties for the past 6 years. A lot has been packaged for us and we were told what to market. Buzz words and marketing are how thinkgs got done.

  82. 82
    kdaug says:

    @J. Michael Neal: Now if only we had a communications network between the outposts…

  83. 83
    Suffern ACE says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Beat me too it. If a man is judged by his friends, what does that say about our press corps.

  84. 84
    SFAW says:

    Now, there does not seem to be a subject. It seems to be about conflict, in and of itself. Maybe not.

    I don’t know if digby was the first to note it, or if it was just the first time I had seen it, but the thesis is that the wingnuts are motivated by the desire to piss off the Left, and Almost All Things Wingnutty come from that starting point.

    It’s a tough thesis to disprove, especially when Limbaugh and the rest of his ilk (i.e. wingers, not drug-addled pedophiles) is/are so transparent in his/their attempts to do so.

  85. 85
    eemom says:

    sorry, I realize I’m a coldhearted bitch……but I am just not in the mood this evening to get all warm’n’fuzzy over someone who clung to a vacuous political identity through the years due to “hormones,” dad-bashing and “good business sense”……..and is now gonna “take the party back,” whatever the fuck that means. Good luck with it.

    But don’t mind me…..gush on.

  86. 86
    J. Michael Neal says:

    @kdaug: I still have strong opinions on the intra-party feuds, but I decided a couple of days ago that I’m going to do my absolute best not to get into those fights for a while. It’s part of my desire to become more polite on blogs and not blow a gasket as I often do.

    We’ll see how successful I am at it. It’s not like I haven’t tried to do this before.

  87. 87
    Jim, Once says:

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Can you explain to me why Roxann Conlin didn’t gain any traction?

    @FlipYrWhig:
    Well, take this from someone who lives in the bluest part of Iowa, and is still trying to figure out what the hell goes on here-

    First, two words: western Iowa. This is the same part of the state that gave us all Steve King and Tom Latham, despite some outstanding opponents in the last election. Don’t ask me to explain western Iowa voters. (But here’s an example of one: my brother-in-law, who told me “I like ni*****! I just don’t vote for ’em!”). W IA is a world away from Des Moines, Iowa City, Cedar Rapids, etc. – and unlike so many rural residents in other areas, they vote.

    Second, the perception by so many uninformed voters here that Grassley is a moderate Republican who’s not like all those crazies in the rest of the party. They believe he’s actually keeping that sector of the party in control. Ha.

    Third, fucked if I know.

  88. 88
    mr. whipple says:

    @Teri:

    Welcome!

  89. 89
    Violet says:

    “Job creators” is now confirmed as the most recent wingnut buzzword euphemism for rich people. Was just in my car and had the radio on for a minute. Some wingnut talker was going on about how unemployment insurance just makes people dependent and that’s what the Democrats want is to make people dependent, and Democratic voters!, forever. And then just before the commercial break he slipped in that they also want to ruin everything by “raising taxes on the job creators.”

    That’s two examples of that phrase today. The other was from Limbaugh. I guess they’re trying to scare people by making them think jobs won’t be created or worse, will go away, if taxes are raised on rich people.

  90. 90
    russell says:

    i am supposed to pay for these people’s healthcare for the rest of their lives?

    Yes. Yes, you are.

    You are supposed to pay for these people’s healthcare for the rest of their lives, and while you are doing that, you are supposed to drop to your knees and thank god that you didn’t have to do what they did.

    You didn’t have to climb 100 stories up a burning building while flaming debris was falling all around you. You didn’t have to breathe a poisonous mixture of ash, jet fuel, and burning human bodies. You didn’t have to pick through rubble to find teeth, or a skull, or a hand, or some hair, so that somebody’s wife, husband, parent, or child could be identified and put to rest.

    Whoever had the fucking unmitigated balls to ask the question, I offer this thought:

    Fuck you. Keep your god-damned money, and fuck you.

    The rest of us will take care of it. Go fuck yourself.

  91. 91

    @Teri: I understand the community thing (well lust also), friends are difficult to turn your back on in that sort of community. I’m sure most are quite nice people, the problem is that once where they are nice becomes impersonal – abstract – the gloves come off. Distance helps with that, as well. If you can raise 100-250K you’re running in circles where daily struggle means something other than what it does to the ones ignored and stomped – whenever politically feasible.

    I kept wondering what you were trying to fix and why since you clearly didn’t belong and for 30 years couldn’t have unless you’ve changed a lot recently. I’ve had a lot of signifigant roles in Democratic Party politics, so I understand the those folks as family aspect.

  92. 92
    Jim, Once says:

    @russell:

    Beautiful. Exactly. Thank you.

  93. 93
  94. 94
    SFAW says:

    “Job creators” is now confirmed as the most recent wingnut buzzword euphemism for rich people.

    Yeah, except it’s not the rich people who are the job creators – it’s start-ups and new businesses. And although some of the people who start up companies are already rich, it’s more likely that they’re not yet rich, and are trying like hell to become rich.

    Actually, I have to correct myself: rich people DO create a lot of jobs. Unfortunately, most of the jobs created are in China, India, Malaysia, etc.

  95. 95
    Teri says:

    @eemom: I get ya. I appreciate it. But I also worked for 30 years to keep some of the crazy out of the republican party as well, at least in my neck of the woods. I worked to put good women and men into office who listened to the people they were elected to work for. Those of us in business, who needed to work with them in tax reassessments when a large corperation fought its assessment in court and it would mean large increases for the rest of us, or to put city water and sewer into a local development after the developer bailed. Or to increase the funding for the sheriffs department to put more patrols on the road. Or work with the state DOT to put in stoplights at a dangerous intersection. Or walked door to door recently to stop hydrofracking in our neighborhood. (Yes some of us republicans are environmentalists too). I appreciate the warm welcome, even the snark and sarcasm. (cause truth be told the comment that makes me go “heh heh” often sticks the longest and makes me think) Yeah I get that “all of the sudden it is too much?” What about the war, the torture, the courts etc? Well I rationalized that I was working to make the party better, to follow its stated principles. I was working to make a small change in my area, cause it is the only place I can control. But the past two weeks, I have read more blogs, followed more about this budget bill and frankly, had my father over for a 4 day visit. He talked with me about some of our issues and agreed with me on some points, disagreed on others but for me the turning point was the flat out disregard for the first reponders. That was my enough moment.

  96. 96
    hamletta says:

    @eemom: How do you know Teri clung to a “vacuous political identity”? Republicans didn’t always suck like they do now. If you’re as old as I am, and you probably are, you know that.

    Isn’t it human nature to stick around and hope things get better? Especially if you’ve formed a lot of personal relationships over the years with the people you’ve been volunteering with.

    If you’re so suspicious, why are you here, anyway? You do know Our Gracious Host was a fire-breathing GOP-er until the Schiavo debacle, don’t you?

  97. 97
    Jim, Once says:

    @freelancer:
    Holy moly. I made the mistake of going there. God. Damn.

  98. 98
    SFAW says:

    Calm me down, somebody, my blood pressure just went through the roof.

    Calm down! (Did that work?)

    It’s only Gergen being Gergen. Does your BP also spike when you read Broder a/k/a Mr. “Being Partisan is Wrong – Unless It’s the Republicans Doing It”? I mean, it’s not as if either one of them has a clue, or a triple-digit IQ.

  99. 99
    mr. whipple says:

    . And although some of the people who start up companies are already rich, it’s more likely that they’re not yet rich, and are trying like hell to become rich.

    Most people that own small businesses don’t give a shit about getting rich. They are just trying to make enough to live on, or meet payroll.

  100. 100
    SFAW says:

    You do know Our Gracious Host was a fire-breathing GOP-er …

    Was?

  101. 101

    @eemom:

    sorry, I realize I’m a coldhearted bitch……but I am just not in the mood this evening to get all warm’n’fuzzy over someone who clung to a vacuous political identity through the years due to “hormones,” dad-bashing and “good business sense”……..and is now gonna “take the party back,” whatever the fuck that means. Good luck with it.

    But don’t mind me…..gush on.

    And cue the circular firing squad. Someone gets smart and joins the team, and this is the “Welcome to Sanity” memo she gets? Cool.

    Thanks for keeping it O.G. We don’t need the help, right?

  102. 102
    Teri says:

    @Chuck Butcher: I had an epihany….my youngest came to me and said “tell me about the good old days” and I realized…he is not going to be able to do that for his children. We have seriously fucked up our society. We are the first generation not to be able to give a better life to our children. My father is second generation in this country. He grew up during the depression and worked to put himself through school and to give his children every advantage. My mother’s family were coal miners in Central Pennsylvania. We were considered the rich family among our relatives. Our advantages in education, opportunities were boundless. I can’t give that to my sons. Even though my husband and I are considered “professionals” and would gladly pay more in taxes our sons education funds were halved by the 2008 crash. Our retirement funds were reduced by a third. Our properties (luckily mortgage free) have lost value. Yes I am very lucky. But we live frugally. We have 1 car, I garden and can vegetables, I buy local eggs and dairy as well as meat and poultry. But because I didn’t fight hard enough, loud enough or tough enough, my children won’t have what I did. That is, for me, the change that mattered.

  103. 103
    SFAW says:

    Most people that own small businesses don’t give a shit about getting rich. They are just trying to make enough to live on, or meet payroll.

    I was specifically talking about start-ups and new businesses (which often are small), not about small businesses in general. However, I could have been a lot clearer in my writing, my apologies for not doing so.

    Small businesses are a big chunk of the employment picture, but employment growth, a/k/a job creation, has been shown to come from new ventures.

  104. 104
    Suck It Up! says:

    @Teri:

    Just letting you know, don’t come too far over. That’s all I’m gonna say.

  105. 105
    Jim, Once says:

    @Teri:

    He talked with me about some of our issues and agreed with me on some points, disagreed on others but for me the turning point was the flat out disregard for the first reponders. That was my enough moment.

    If we are fortunate in this life, we will all have a moment like this. Mine was the death of Martin Luther King. Prior to that terrible happening, I claimed to want equality for all, but I just didn’t think I could find a way to register black voters or march in Selma or Memphis, because… well, because it might cause me trouble or discomfort, and really, did anybody really need my little bit of help? I still have too much of that attitude, but at least I recognize it and try to shove it aside, and just do something. But is that ‘something’ what needs to be done? I don’t know. Maybe somebody else can tell me.

  106. 106
    Corner Stone says:

    @SFAW: Ooooohhh…SNAP!

  107. 107
    mr. whipple says:

    Someone gets smart and joins the team, and this is the “Welcome to Sanity” memo she gets? Cool.

    Yeah, very gracious.

  108. 108
    mr. whipple says:

    @SFAW:

    Sorry if I came off snarky. Starting a business can be a way to get rich, but I don’t think it’s the motivation for the vast majority of people that do it. It’s certainly not the result for most people.

  109. 109
    Teri says:

    @Suck It Up!: Don’t worry. I still believe in paying as you go, a strong defense (purely personal their as we have an interest in keeping some defense programs going!) I have a rather twisted view that there should be a national service program for everyone, I think that educators should educate and not be administrators and that laws should be enforced because when you don’t enforce some it makes others less valid.

  110. 110
    mr. whipple says:

    My mother’s family were coal miners in Central Pennsylvania.

    Ditto!

  111. 111

    @Teri:

    But because I didn’t fight hard enough, loud enough or tough enough

    Nah, fuck that. I’ve worked like a dog for lefty causes and Democratic pols (and been one) and this is where we’re at. It ain’t my fault anymore than it is yours. Sure, I think you got on the wrong team, but exactly how big a wheel are you? Not that big.

    This nation stuck its head up its ass, can’t get it out, and our politicians are no help with the project. Either they approve, or they stink at standing together a bit and telling people what the hell is going on.

  112. 112
    Teri says:

    @Chuck Butcher: But I can’t be that fatalistic. I want a better world for my children. Remember “Security Moms”…..mess with our kids’ future and watch out. This is how it gets started. I truly believe that you must work for change. I have changed small things, I just gotta figure out how to change some of the big ones.

  113. 113

    @Teri:

    Don’t worry. I still believe in paying as you go, a strong defense (purely personal their as we have an interest in keeping some defense programs going!) I have a rather twisted view that there should be a national service program for everyone, I think that educators should educate and not be administrators and that laws should be enforced because when you don’t enforce some it makes others less valid.

    I’m as rabidly liberal as it gets, but I don’t think there’s anything in here that isn’t common sense.

    If we didn’t historically have a strong military, the world would be a lot worse off. Poland and France and several other countries would probably be speaking German to this day. =)

    I do think the fact that we outspend the next 27 largest militaries combined is a bit much, though.

    I also think education is and has been the purview of the Democrats for some time. It seems like the only thing Republicans care about in schools is that we still say the Pledge of Allegiance and consider adding intelligent design to the textbooks.

  114. 114
    Teri says:

    @mr. whipple: Do you really tell people not to squeeze?

  115. 115
    RinaX says:

    @Gus:

    Okay, I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought this might be a put on.

  116. 116
    mr. whipple says:

    @Teri:

    Nah, squeezing is fun. My roots come out of places like Coalport, Westover, Smoke Run.

  117. 117
    Bnut says:

    @mr. whipple: Those are awesome town names. I’ve always loved places named after a local commodity/nature feature.

  118. 118
    Teri says:

    @TheYankeeApologist: I have a real problem with schools becoming top heavy. When the cost for administration outweighs instructional by 2 to 1 that is when it gets to me. (I am including the cost of benefits too, cause those administrators do get some sweet bennies without having union arbitration) When class room size is affected and children are taught to testing instead of their abilities it is a problem. As for the pledge, I want it to go back to the original (with out the “Under God”) because I believe that CIVIC organizations like schools, etc should have no religious affliations of any kind. If you are concerned about your children learning about God in school send them to a religious school. I think a major change in the Republican Party came about when it became “christianized”. I can’t remember what religion Nixon was (did someone say Quaker?), or if Regan evan went to church. After all Nancy did consult her astrology practioners about everything.

  119. 119
    mr. whipple says:

    @Bnut: They are pretty much like they sound.

  120. 120
    Teri says:

    @mr. whipple: Folks are from Dunmore, Altoona, Throop etc. Dad went to med school in philly and then we bounced everywhere

  121. 121
    mr. whipple says:

    Teri: Don’t be a stranger.

    Night all.

  122. 122

    @Teri:

    When class room size is affected and children are taught to testing instead of their abilities it is a problem. As for the pledge, I want it to go back to the original (with out the “Under God”) because I believe that CIVIC organizations like schools, etc should have no religious affliations of any kind. If you are concerned about your children learning about God in school send them to a religious school.

    A big part of the reason I moved my family back to NYC from Texas was this. After the changes they made to the textbooks there, I couldn’t fathom my bright, inquisitive children having to try and actually LEARN anything there.

    Not that NYC is much better. Frankly, the state of education in this country right now is very, very troubling. I have a brother and sister that are both in college right now, and their half their friends are functionally illiterate.

  123. 123

    @Teri:

    fatalistic

    Just because you know you can’t leap tall buildings in a single bound doesn’t mean you’re fatalistic, realistic assesments of goals doesn’t mean having none, it does sometimes mean being satisfied with being good rather than great. It may mean a less prestigious university than hoped, Well a 3.95 GPA because Mom raised you to kick ass and play later still means something.

    I finished 3rd in a 4x primary to run for US Rep, OR-2. I learned a lot more from that and made the contacts and built the cache to actually be of real help to (now) US Sen Jeff Merkley in an area he needed help, badly. I don’t claim I got him elected, he did, but it was a really close race and I made a difference. You’ve tried to do the same. There are limits to what anyone of us can do. That is why we organize and hope like hell those we’ve organized for don’t let us down. (and they will, just not too badly)

  124. 124
    Martin says:

    @Teri: It’s kind of ironic. My dad’s cousin is a leader for the first responders. He was a station chief and lost a number of his men on 9/11. I only knew he survived when I saw him on CNN a few days after. He’s been fighting for first responder benefits from the very beginning, but 9/11 turned him into a wingnut. I’m going to have to ask how he reconciles all of this.

    No matter how hard we try to simplify people, they always prove to be complicated.

  125. 125
    SFAW says:

    Sorry if I came off snarky.

    Not to worry, you didn’t.

    Starting a business can be a way to get rich, but I don’t think it’s the motivation for the vast majority of people that do it.

    I think you’re wrong about that. Sure, plenty of people want to be their own boss, but money is one of the bigger motivators. (There are others, certainly, and many of them are important.)

    It’s certainly not the result for most people.

    Agreed.

  126. 126
    Teri says:

    @RinaX: I have commented before on different threads, but generally stayed out of the political stuff. I have been reading and enjoying for awhile, you are a very entertaining bunch and I enjoy your viewpoints (even though some of you are just plain out wrong) and can respect your views without having to embrace them. I followed a link for one of ED Kain’s posts from League one day and here I be.

  127. 127
    mr. whipple says:

    @Teri:

    I know Altoona, although I haven’t been there in years! Just down the road from Westover!!! Small world.

    Gramps was a coal miner who started in the mines as a kid. His father was a miner who came over from Wetlina, Poland.(Although they considered themselves Ukrainians).

    I know what you mean about not being able to tell your kids things will be better for them than they were for you. I think about this constantly. Up until my generation I think it was a given if you worked hard. I’m not sure that’s true anymore, nor sure its the fault of a political party.

  128. 128
    Teri says:

    @TheYankeeApologist:I teach religious education at my church. I had to stop having the class of fifth graders from taking turns reading aloud because of the inability to read the material. This is a book that is geared to 10 year olds. UGH! I am lucky in the the local schools are excellent, my oldest got an NYS regents honors diploma as well as an IB (international baccaulaureate) and my younger sons are taking german, chinese as well as participating in some engineering programs. Different school systems. I hated living in Houston. I had several people tell me that I should be “born again” cause apparently I didn’t do it right the first time.

  129. 129
    Nick says:

    Clearly, if Obama had used the bully pulpit, this man wouldn’t have felt this way

  130. 130
    Teri says:

    @Martin: As a medical professional, child of medical professionals, sister of medical professionals (two of which responded to the pentagon) this was one of the things that drove me crazy. Believe me I have heard it from the family (I am the only republican in this large catholic family) for years on my positions be in askance with my morality. But….the stubborn part and idealism is hard to seperate.

  131. 131
    eemom says:

    @RinaX:

    DougJ’s been mysteriously AWOL lately.

    Jussayinzall.

  132. 132
    Teri says:

    @Chuck Butcher: Chuck, thank you for your service and your willingness to step up and be accountable. I think we need more people who are willing to do this. As part of the search committee I have found few who would put themselves or their families through what passes for politics today. There is a Robert Heinlien story (can’t remember which one) where he talks about politicians. I can’t remember if it is positive or negative but I know it was after he wrote letter about the banning of nukes. Ah…waiting for husband to get home from business trip to Tinker AFB. Plane delayed because of snow….nice talking with you. Thanks for the advice. Teri

  133. 133
    Teri says:

    @eemom: LOL…need a dna test or just a testosterone level. Although I am getting menapausal so it might be a bit off!

  134. 134
    Cain says:

    @Teri:

    are not actually serving the all the people? I still want to be a Republican but I don’t want to belong to this Republican Party anymore.

    Welcome to being just an ordinary non-party American. You’ll find it easier once you break the ties. I’m normally a fiscally conservative, socially conservative person. Although when I say “socially conservative” it means that I believe in family, ethical, giving a 100% in anything you do. But I don’t put any limitations there. I don’t care if you’re gay or what, but you better be raising your kids well. :-)

    cain

  135. 135
    Cain says:

    @Teri:

    @J. Michael Neal: If my husband consents sure why not? I have officiated at a wiccan hand fasting as “West” for a dear friend and her partner. My being republican and catholic doesn’t mean I am not human. I truly follow Christ teaching to love my fellow man (and woman) for who they are not what I want them to be. One of the proudest moments in my life was when my oldest son said he couldn’t be confirmed in the church because of its stance on marriage equality, womans roles etc. (Some of that was my parent influence)

    Good grief, are you sure you were republican? You sound like a dirty hippie to me. I had a wiccan friend, and I used to amuse myself by reading alt.religion.wiccan from time to time. Good times. :-)

    Personally, I wouldn’t mind attending one of those sessions just to expand my reality a little. What people believe is always interesting and as a Hindu I’m always looking out for new avenues to spiritual enlightenment.

    cain

  136. 136
    Lurker says:

    @TheYankeeApologist:

    A big part of the reason I moved my family back to NYC from Texas was this. After the changes they made to the textbooks there, I couldn’t fathom my bright, inquisitive children having to try and actually LEARN anything there.

    In hopes that these links may be of use to you and to your children…

    http://manybooks.net (free out-of-copyright classics)
    http://nostarch.com/catalog/manga (college-level material in comics format)

  137. 137
    Cain says:

    @Teri:

    @TheYankeeApologist: I have a real problem with schools becoming top heavy. When the cost for administration outweighs instructional by 2 to 1 that is when it gets to me. (I am including the cost of benefits too, cause those administrators do get some sweet bennies without having union

    I’m with you there. I think in general we seem to compensate adminsitrators and executives a lot more than other people. That seems wrong to me. I realize they have an important job and it is stressful captaining their ship, but it really bugs me when they fail and they still get a bonus. When I fail I apparently get nothing because well I failed! Why is that not applied to higher management? In general the high compensation ends up making everything cost more because nothing is being funneled back into the company.

    cain

  138. 138
    Cain says:

    oops I came late to the party.

  139. 139
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Cain: See Klein, Joel. Paid for the management expertise and lookey here, his tests scores in NYC were rising rapidly – until they weren’t really.

  140. 140
    MJ says:

    @Lurker:

    Thanks for these links. I’ll pass them on to my school aged nieces and nephews!

    MJ

  141. 141
    bowery boy says:

    im a liberal, lived about 1 1/2 miles from the towers, stood on the west side highway about 1/4 mile away as the second one imploded and watched as people emerged from near the site covered from head to toe in soot and ash and whatever else remained of the buildings. and im all for anyone involved being cared for and compensated for their efforts and am as sickened as anyone after having 9/11 shoved down our throats by so-called patriots should we dare question “dear leader” and others.

    but i am still curious what this $7 billion is being spent on and that we have spent countless billions on far far less noble concerns. i know this isnt why the republicans are holding up the bill. its just shameless politicking on their part. but id love to know how many people this money is going to and for what purposes exactly.

  142. 142
    Jasper says:

    @Chuck Butcher:

    history validates what they were doing. It wasn’t liberal, it was true.

    Amen to that. As a recovering “conservative” it’s a great freedom to no longer have to believe things that history tells us are simply false.

    One of the biggest lies is the unrestrained, libertarian “free market” benefits anyone but the top slivers. I’m not aware of any instance in all of recorded history that a middle class emerged without “liberal” gubment interventions into the economy, like labor unions, anti-trust laws, a progressive income tax, regulations, work place minimums on wages and health and safety standards, protectionism for domestic industry, etc. It’s not liberal to think these things are essential to a middle class, just the truth, what thousands of years of human history tell us. The natural order is a tiny few controlling nearly all the wealth and most of the rest of the population outside of that tiny circle working for subsistence wages.

  143. 143
    jayjaybear says:

    @Teri:

    I…play…WoW…

    Okay. NOW she’s perfect.

Comments are closed.