Let’s Settle Some Shit Right Now

I don’t delete comments, I don’t ban people, you can say whatever the fuck you want about me in the comments and on the front pages if you are a poster, and it is rare (if ever) that I assert control here, but this is one time. I’m on the bottle, not quite Four Loko but a few shots of Cabo Wabo away from 82 Loko, and I want you all to look up Enlightened Absolutism. There will be no vote on whether ED stays. He has my unconditional and enthusiastic support. He stays, unless he doesn’t want to. The decision is yours, ED. Period.

Those who disagree can pound sand.

I’m glad we have that settled now, aren’t you? You’re fucking A right, it is good to have this debate over. I agree. What? You said something? Whatever.

Deal, bitches.

*** Update ***

Look. This is a real simple principle. I actually have the balls to stand behind the people I ask to write here, unlike Franklin Foer and Scott Beauchamp. When I ask someone to write here, I give them free run of the house. I do not believe in inviting people to write here and then asking them to temper their thoughts or post things to appeal to the dominant mindset, and I don’t want people to back down from bucking authority or criticizing the powers that be, and I don’t want people feeling like they need the approval of the commentariat to post their thoughts. I knew what I was getting when I asked Michael D. I knew what I was getting with DougJ, MisterMix, Anne Laurie, ABL, Tom, and ED. I don’t agree with them all on everything, but I want everyone of them posting here and candidly speaking their mind. I wish Michael D. still posted here.

I just don’t believe in giving people keys to the car and then telling them where to drive. That is just how I roll. You can call it authoritarian that I will not listen to commenter voices on whether or not ED stays, but I think it is actually quite the opposite. I’ve given over the keys to something I’ve been building for ten years, this website, to a lot of talented, interesting, and thoughtful people. And I hope they all stay as long as they want and always say whatever the fuck they want. Period.






294 replies
  1. 1
    Will says:

    I’m drinking some of the last Joose in the state of Washington, inspired by Le Prohibition and the Nov. 18th deadline to try these drinks for the first time.

    Urf, a terrible taste. Classic frat drink. But oh, what stories to tell my grandkids! And something about E.D Kain, et cetera.

  2. 2
    Douglas says:

    There was a debate?
    *goes back to drinking his sake*

  3. 3
    Corner Stone says:

    No one was asking that he leave, IIRC. He decided to drama queen it up.
    But it’s good to see you really own your authoritarian nature.

  4. 4
    Douglas says:

    @Douglas:
    FYWP, usually stars are for actions, not to bold stuff…

  5. 5
    Ross Hershberger says:

    This is the only blog I know where the comments are reasonable and measured but the front page is anarchic. Can this work?

  6. 6
    shortstop says:

    Just how many Grasshoppers have you had tonight?

  7. 7
    wonkie says:

    I don’t get the animosity for ED. Maybe he gets hit with all the shit people would like to aim at other people they really want to hate on. There’s a term for this from dog behavior. Transfer aggression?

  8. 8

    I love The Heater when he makes an appearance. You’re just fucking adorable when you have a case of the ass.

  9. 9
    Ross Hershberger says:

    I’m stone cold sober and I have to get up in 7 hours for work. Why is Dubya still giving me the finger? Isn’t he retired from that?

  10. 10
    handy says:

    But it’s good to see you really own your authoritarian nature.

    No kidding. And how apropos to post a picture of Bush giving the finger to the world while he’s at it!

  11. 11
    Morbo says:

    Always enjoy a good blogger trolling his own comment section. ~sip

  12. 12
    mbss says:

    that inner fascist in cole is always only a cabo wabo away.

    i would have went with the picard finger:

    http://www.threadbombing.com/d.....ge_id=3820

    or even the picard shenanigans:

    http://bthauronite.deviantart......?offset=40

  13. 13
  14. 14

    @The Grand Panjandrum: You snatched my comment right out from under me.

    Cole, you are so cute when you get riled up. Though, I do have an actual complaint–I have taken a break from BJ three times since I started reading. All three times, you have posted Tunch’s pic while I was gone. What. The. Fuck. Is. Up. With. That?
    @Douglas: I was told it’s an ASCII thing or some such thing. Pisses me right off, too. So, apparently, the substitute is double-colons.

    ::shrugs shoulders::

  15. 15
    General Stuck says:

    LOL

    even your decrees from on high are endearing. I just hope to stay off the Balloon Juice front page, nailed to the Cole cross of derision. Each day that doesn’t happen is a victory, far as I’m concerned.

  16. 16
    morzer says:

    Why do you hate our freedoms, Cole? And when does Operation Chaos Bristol Palin Edition begin?

  17. 17
    LindaH says:

    It’s your blog. You get to say who stays and who goes. If I don’t like a poster, I skip their posts. That may mean I missed the post asking ED to leave. All I saw was his post asking us to vote. I didn’t vote. I also didn’t vote about whether the nutcases should have an abortion or not, because neither one is my call. I like Balloon Juice and I trust you to run it as you want.

  18. 18
    shortstop says:

    Man, I wish Barack Obama would flip a few people off on camera. With those long, elegant fingers, he could totally own Bush in the bird department.

  19. 19
    Trainrunner says:

    Well, John, glad to see you’ve embraced the soft bigotry of low expectations.

    E.D. Kain has puerile, half-baked ideas expressed at tedious length and then never defended.

    It drags the quality down. But, hey, it’s your blog.

    Oh, and this post of yours was both dickish AND douchey.

  20. 20
    ulee says:

    Tunch runs the household but when John drinks he makes himself scarce.

  21. 21
    wasabi gasp says:

    That fella’s gonna go all cross-eyed watching angels dance on the tip of that thing.

  22. 22
    morzer says:

    @shortstop:

    He did the “dirt off my shoulder” thing pretty well as I recall.

  23. 23
    Bnut says:

    @Trainrunner: Door. Butt. Don’t. Let. Hit.

  24. 24
    morzer says:

    @Bnut:

    Well said, good sir.

  25. 25
    mantis says:

    What do you think this is, your blog or something? The nerve.

  26. 26
    gbear says:

    But Daaaad, I didn’t do anything wrooong! Why are you yelling at meeee?

  27. 27
    freelancer says:

    I love it when you troll us, Cole. Heh.

  28. 28
    scarshapedstar says:

    Now THERE’S that unrepentant asshole two time Bush votin’ John Cole of yesteryear!

  29. 29
    shortstop says:

    Cole’s hangover is going to be all our fucking fault, too. I’m sleeping in.

  30. 30
    Trainrunner says:

    Nope, possums, not leaving. John said we can slam him in the comments. And I defended my charges…unlike SOME people I COULD but WON’T name…

  31. 31

    Dang, I missed the melee. Sounds as good as the Bristol brouhaha which has monopolized my attention.

  32. 32
    NobodySpecial says:

    Wow, the one day I take off the internets, everyone goes nuts.

  33. 33
    Comrade Luke says:

    I don’t really get why people would want him to get removed from the blog.

    After reading his first couple of posts I was incensed, but to be honest I find skipping over his posts much more satisfying than being a part of some insurrection that got him removed altogether.

    Different strokes, I guess.

  34. 34
    Raenelle says:

    No problem, John. I never read E.D.’s stuff anyway. I tried, and I’m sure if the writing had been compelling, I would have eventually gotten disgusted with the ideas. But I never got that far. If I were in the mood for dry writing, I’d have a book in my hand, not a mouse.

    The distaste actually started early–the E.D. name. It just seemed like conservative rebellion to me. Flamboyant squareness. Like Tucker’s bow tie. So C Cupp, or whatever her name is.

  35. 35
    shortstop says:

    Well, I’m off to Harry Potter. I’ll just leave this pile of hand towels here. Please, y’all, be considerate of others and just take one.

  36. 36
    scarshapedstar says:

    @Comrade Luke:

    To be fair, he started the vote himself.

    Like Socrates drinking the hemlock, and all that.

  37. 37
    AB says:

    Sorry, did something happen? I missed it.

  38. 38
  39. 39
    Sentient Puddle says:

    Personally, I prefer the pic of Jesus throwing the bird.

  40. 40
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Ross Hershberger:

    This is the only blog I know where the comments are reasonable and measured

    I beg your pardon?? Do you read this blog?

  41. 41
    Comrade Luke says:

    @scarshapedstar: He did? I guess I missed it since I skip over all of his posts :)

    I find it kind of funny that people want him off the front page, as if they’re rigged up like something out of A Clockwork Orange, forced to read every post.

    David Brooks, on the other hand…

  42. 42

    @jeffreyw: You’re making me weep here. It’s not pretty.

    @shortstop: It was really excellent, despite being short on Snape. There is never enough Snape. Best movie of the bunch.

  43. 43
    joeyess says:

    Cole, you are one bad motherfucker. If you fight like you write I’d want you to have my back in a dark alley. I’d have yours, trust me.

    Now, everybody get the fuck off of E.D.

    Dissent is patriotic. What? Not patriots?

    What Cole said.

  44. 44
    WyldPirate says:

    Hilarious. Glad to see you sticking up for your front pagers, John.

    There has been a growing group think/”political correctness” vibe here in recent months that really seemed to peak before the election. Too many people get shouted down and harassed here who don’t tow the proper ideological line and it has been tending more and more towards a left-wing version of Red State. I’m glad that you take a hands off approach and let us duke it out here in the comment section.

  45. 45
    celticdragonchick says:

    @LindaH:

    It’s your blog. You get to say who stays and who goes. If I don’t like a poster, I skip their posts. That may mean I missed the post asking ED to leave. All I saw was his post asking us to vote. I didn’t vote. I also didn’t vote about whether the nutcases should have an abortion or not, because neither one is my call. I like Balloon Juice and I trust you to run it as you want.

    Exactly.

  46. 46
    Mark S. says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    Socrates didn’t exactly drink the hemlock out of his own volition.

  47. 47
    Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people) says:

    @jeffreyw: Mmm. Why do you always have to make me hungry? Off to eat dinner (before I lose my mind and lick the monitor).

  48. 48
    scarshapedstar says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    They don’t call BJ “4chan without the CP”* for nothin’.

    *just made that up

  49. 49
    Bnut says:

    @jeffreyw: You always get such good contrast, and your colors (esp yellows) are really vivid. I also have a D90 and was wondering if all your pics are straight uploads to flickr, or are you doing a litte CS? Help me Obi-Wan Kenobi.

  50. 50
    Cliff says:

    This post may just be the exact reason I love this blog.

    FYI, If I sound like this when responding to you it may well be for similar reasons (me sips more alcohol)

    If Y’all want some relaxing puppy pics instead, check out the latest: hey! Molly (stick) … lasers applied:

    Go Get It!!!: http://mollymaesden.blogspot.c.....et-it.html

  51. 51
    Peter says:

    Oh for fuck’s sake. Cole, nobody used the word ‘vote’ until he called one.

    Obviously it’s your call who writes for your blog. I think you’ve made a mildly shitty selection this time around (I can’t think of a post of his that wasn’t either stupid or extremely Dog Bites Man) but that’s entirely immaterial to the question of if he stays. The thing is, as far as I can tell, nobody was seriously raising that question until he posed it in a furious squall of self-pity.

    You really do not need to trot out an image macro and an aggressively defensive post every time someone says mean things about ED. I promise.

  52. 52
    BGK says:

    Sorry to be dim and all, but I’ve been out every night this week with friends and/or family, away from the teevee, consuming much excellent vino. Did Harvey’s Bristol Palin or one of the other Palin by-products shoot her mouth off about something? I heard someone in the restaurant I was in earlier tonight say something, but was having too good of a time to care.

  53. 53
    scarshapedstar says:

    @Mark S.:

    Depends on who you ask. Read the second half of the page you linked.

    Most scholars see the conviction and execution of Socrates as a deliberate choice made by the famous philosopher himself. If the accounts of Plato and Xenophon are reasonably accurate, Socrates sought not to persuade jurors, but rather to lecture and provoke them.

    I think most people at least agree that he could have easily walked out of the prison and into exile had he so desired.

  54. 54
  55. 55
    Ross Hershberger says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    I beg your pardon?? Do you read this blog?

    Please don’t beg. So undignified.
    Yes, this blog has reasonably civil commentary. I read Tomasky and the comments there are like Arkham with LSD in the mashed potatoes. Plus trolls. Tomasky does his best to be measured and reasonable. This causes rending of clothes and blood shooting out of eyeballs by the commentariat.
    John gets a snootfull and tells us all how the cow eats the cabbage and it’s all “What? Conflict? Where?”
    I like that.

  56. 56
    celticdragonchick says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    LOL! I like that one!

  57. 57
    John O says:

    It’s your fucking blog, John, and I say right on.

    Can’t tell you how weird it is for me to see people come into someone else’s home and trash the place.

    It it even metaphysically possible to troll your own blog? I think not.

    John O +4, and signing off.

  58. 58
    Corner Stone says:

    @shortstop:

    I’ll just leave this pile of hand towels here. Please, y’all, be considerate of others and just take one.

    Wait just a second! You’ve got to earn the right to be our person who hands us a hand towel in the ladies’ rooms of fine eateries.
    You can’t just walk off to some other form of entertainment will nilly!

  59. 59

    @BGK: There was a Facebook flap involving Willow and Bristol and certain f-words.

  60. 60
    Crusty Dem says:

    I practically never agree with ED, my only knock on the guy is that he hardly ever defends himself in comments. I know it’s hostile territory, but when he does more to defend himself in comments on “friendly” sites than he does here, it looks bad and it’s infuriating to regular commenters. I could care less about his politics, I just think if you’re going to post on a blog, you should have the decency to defend yourself there, rather than run off to somewhere safe.

    But whatever. Ain’t my blog..

  61. 61
    morzer says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    Heh, indeedy. That’s why the Crito was written, to debate the Should He Stay Or Should He Go question.

  62. 62
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Ross Hershberger:

    Please don’t beg. So undignified.

    I get better scraps from the table when I beg…

  63. 63
    Comrade Luke says:

    @Raenelle: LOL. That’s hilarious. I picture more of a young Rich Uncle Pennybags walking down the street, blabbering about garbage collection and twirling his cane.

  64. 64
    Suffern ACE says:

    So despite the display of democracy when front pagers call for votes, the reality is a small cadre of one man and his pets have all the levers of control…but who does that man report to? Lives in a state known for having a Rockefeller as a Senator…how close are they? How did he get these powers? Who paid for that trip to Wisconsin he took a few months ago? Certainly mere bloggers couldn’t afford such luxuries…

    The historians will note that once the “Enlightened Ruler” crushed the nascent democracy, the commentators swiftly took solace in unfounded conspiracy theories and the discourse became marked by a sharp increase in paranoid whispers about the unnamed “interests.”

  65. 65
    Bob Loblaw says:

    This blog should introduce a moratorium on the use of “hurt fee-fees” as an insult, because really now. This shit is just sad.

    I’m not sure whether to be amused by this goofy e-drama, perplexed at the complete lack of self-awareness, or simply disinterested.

    I somehow blame Rahm Emmanuel.

  66. 66
    mbss says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    They don’t call BJ “4chan without the CP”* for nothin’.

    where’s the goatse?

  67. 67
    Douglas says:

    @Suffern ACE:

    So despite the display of democracy when front pagers call for votes, the reality is a small cadre of one man and his pets have all the levers of control…but who does that man report to?

    Tunch.

  68. 68
    BGK says:

    @You Don’t Say:

    Oh God, I had to go and get off the boat. The mangoes were truly putrid.

    Good thing my local Costco just added a liquor store, and they have jeroboams of Tanqueray for cheap. I’ll need to be under the volcano daily for the next two years.

  69. 69

    @Corner Stone:

    He decided to drama queen it up.

    No, DougJ started that. As per usual.

    Frankly, ED adds more value to the site than Doug does at this point, at least in terms of signal-to-noise ratio.

  70. 70
    Corner Stone says:

    @Peter:

    You really do not need to trot out an image macro and an aggressively defensive post every time someone says mean things about ED. I promise.

    Obviously he does. IMO it’s a guilt reflex. Cole made a mistake and now can’t back out gracefully. So like the authoritarian soul he is, he’s doubling down. And doubling down again.
    If it were left up to Cole that simp Micheal D. would still be front paging here.

  71. 71
    Cliff says:

    @jeffreyw:

    ARGH!!! and without a pie filter too, that’s some g’d good looking pie!!

    mmmm… Pie!!!

    off for the midnight walk courtesy of the Apex Extreme http://www.princetontec.com/in.....ex-extreme

    Holy F that’s a bright headlamp!

  72. 72
    morzer says:

    @Anton Sirius:

    DougJ noted it in passing. It was Anne Laurie who made a big song and dance about it.

  73. 73
    Allan says:

    @Raenelle: I believe her name is Sip E. Cupp.

    That may be because, whenever I see her, I have the urge to fling her against the wall to see if anything spills out.

  74. 74
    General Stuck says:

    I just don’t believe in giving people keys to the car and then telling them where to drive.

    Hell yea, long as everyone has their seatbelt fastened and good insurance, away we go.

  75. 75
  76. 76
    Corner Stone says:

    @Anton Sirius:

    No, DougJ started that. As per usual.

    DougJ posted a comment at The Agitator and used ED Kain’s nym to do it?
    Damn! I knew DougJ was a good spoof, I didn’t know he was a secret agent provocateur as well!

  77. 77
    mbss says:

    Sip E. Cupp and Special E.D.?

  78. 78
    suzanne says:

    Cole, you kinda remind me of my mom. She argues with me when I agree with her. It’s all good. Chillax.

  79. 79

    @Morbo:

    Always enjoy a good blogger trolling his own comment section.

    How dare John not provide the echo chamber we’re looking for!

  80. 80
    Redshirt says:

    I love lamp. I really do.

  81. 81

    @Cliff: Awww! Who’s a good puppy? Molly is!

    Cole, stop updating. It’s your freaking blog. You do what you want. That’s how blogs operate! Sheesh.

    @mbss: Ooooh! I like this! Multiple updates, FTW! But they have to be sequentially numbered.

  82. 82
    jeffreyw says:

    @Bnut: Check your Picture Control setting in the Shooting Menu, I have the setting at Vivid. Minor plus side settings. Most image manipulation software allows tweaks to saturation and color temperature. I usually boost the saturation a tad and I like a “warmer” image.
    For the last month I have been using Adobe Photoshop Elements 9 as my goto image app. It can do more with one click on “auto smart fix” than I can with ten minutes of poking and hoping among the manual tweak menus.

  83. 83
    scarshapedstar says:

    @mbss:

    I believe it’s here.

    (ducks into the doom bunker)

  84. 84
    p mac says:

    ED Kain certainly has my vote, although I suspect he and Anne need to sit down and have a beer with Obama or something.

    I often agree with him, but even when I don’t his comments are thought-provoking.

    He’s the voice of that extinction-watch species: the Millicent Fenwick/Ike Isenhower Republican. (Along with Larison, of course.)

  85. 85
    mbss says:

    cole, two more updates.

    do the greenwald.

  86. 86
    Ross Hershberger says:

    So at the building where I work there was a big flap today about a banner in Arabic left up in a hallway. Lots of dudgeon and Serious Questions about What it Means. It was a Chaldean group that was renting a large auditorium to stage a play. Lovely people, and their Priest.
    If the terrorists haven’t already won they’re certainly holding all the aces.

  87. 87
    geg6 says:

    He did the whole GBCW thing, Cole, so simmer down and sober up. I’m more insulted for you than anything. But if you don’t care that one of your FPers condescended to you and your blog with his arrested development buddies, then that’s that. But I won’t be ignoring his blather any more. He needs toughened up and ignoring him won’t do that. Sloppy thinking and ignorance of fact will be relentlessly trolled.

  88. 88
    The Ombudsman says:

    I declare this pizza to be…awesome!

  89. 89
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Obviously he does. IMO it’s a guilt reflex. Cole made a mistake and now can’t back out gracefully. So like the authoritarian soul he is, he’s doubling down. And doubling down again.
    If it were left up to Cole that simp Micheal D. would still be front paging here.

    Why do you bother staying here then? This is Cole’s baby. If you want to have a blog with a different set of front pagers, than take up your sword and start one.

    I have pissed Cole off a couple of times, and I have been very sharp in my replies to him, but I have never questioned his right to administer his blog as he sees fit.

  90. 90
    Corner Stone says:

    @Allan: She reminds me of Sienna Miller in G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra.
    And I like that about her.

  91. 91
    Bella Q says:

    @shortstop: Good thought. I will too.

  92. 92
    Comrade Luke says:

    @Corner Stone: Well, to be honest, the fact that John doubled down and didn’t cave means he isn’t truly a Democrat yet.

    If the conversion were complete he would have either removed E.D. completely or suspended him for four days.

  93. 93
    mbss says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    aaHHHHHHH, DUDE. no bueno. i scrolled like one inch down into the horror. the horror.

    so now link me to an E.D. post that will provide a similar two girls one cup reaction.

  94. 94
    mbss says:

    is ED a fucking libertarian?

  95. 95
    Comrade Luke says:

    @mbss: Is there any other kind?

  96. 96
    mbss says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    wha? this is sparta.

    this is corner stone juice.

  97. 97
    celticdragonchick says:

    @mbss:

    is ED a fucking libertarian?

    Libertarians like fucking in principle, but they usually annoy any available prospects far too much to actually get anywhere.

  98. 98
    Konrad says:

    I don’t post that frequently, but I’d like to mention that posts like these are why I read this site so much. Damn right, it’s your blog, you will decide who writes here, and you will stick up for those people.

    When ED first started posting here, he said why he couldn’t respond to all the comments; he posted from work and did not have enough time, IIRC. There are also a lot of comments to respond to, so I don’t really understand the hate about the comments thing. And yes, ED is ideologically different, but that’s better than having liberals talk to leftists about how bad Republicans are. Stuff like that makes you intellectually lazy, even if you’re right.

  99. 99
    mbss says:

    @Comrade Luke:

    noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

    Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage’s whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.
    Ayn Rand

    Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises. You will find that one of them is wrong.
    Ayn Rand

    Do not ever say that the desire to “do good” by force is a good motive. Neither power-lust nor stupidity are good motives.
    Ayn Rand

  100. 100

    I have no idea what’s going on. But E D Kain has my vote. I don’t give a fuck if I agree with anything he writes. I have no desire to be part of something that is just a giant group hug of similar ideas. Is this what we’ve come to?

    I actually came to BJ originally because a bunch of people told John he was some kind of Hillary-hater and they were going on strike, which John politely (!!) told them they were full of crap and didn’t know what they were talking about. But he didn’t tell them to get the fuck off his blog. It sounded like fun. And I was right.

  101. 101
    suzanne says:

    @Comrade Luke: Sure. Plenty of them don’t get laid, which explains the barely concealed rage.

  102. 102
    Morbo says:

    @scarshapedstar: That’s what they call Reddit, actually.

  103. 103
    scarshapedstar says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Libertarians like fucking in principle, but they usually annoy any available prospects far too much to actually get anywhere.

    “Libertarians often polyamorous (and hope you are too) but also somewhat out of shape, which takes a lot of the fun out of it.”

  104. 104
    celticdragonchick says:

    @mbss:

    Oh.

    In that case, we need red capes, silly loin cloths and bronze shields with a “V” device on the shield boss.

    We are all Mayans Spartan hoplites now.

  105. 105
    Cerberus says:

    Ok, John…

    Listen, I know your response every time ED Kain gets rightfully criticized is to pull a “Leave Brittney Alone” moment, but seriously.

    You are yelling at your readers for something your front pager wrote on your blog. He used that “free reign” to be emo. He used that “free reign” to make it seem like there was a campaign to oust him because Anne Laurie rightfully called him out on some double-facing bullshit.

    And now you are writing a post and an update yelling that we can’t overrule your desire to keep him.

    Great.

    I mean, I hate the guy and find him to be the same sort of “Sunday talk show personality” that makes your criticisms of the unfortunate state of the media a wee bit hypocritical if not accurate, but…

    Great.

    But see, this is an argument you need to have with ED Kain.

    Because none of us tried to get him fired. None of us hacked the front page with a poll saying: ED Kain gone yes/no.

    ED Kain on his own volition decided to throw that shit out there because he was butt hurt about being called out by another front pager and wanted to feel all martyred by the mean old liberals who bother to fact-check his factually-challenged, poorly thought out bullshit.

    So, you want to yell at someone “bucking your authority” as the decider of who goes and who stays?

    Yell at ED Kain.

    Because he’s the one who tried to “throw out a poll” because he wanted to play the martyr.

    But you won’t.

    Because there’s something horribly wrong with those of us on the left. We want to believe that our political opponents have some redemption in them. Thus, we entertain idiocies like lowering the playing field, pretending that criticisms of right-wing blather are hate speech, that the left has an “epistemic closure” problem, that MSNBC and Fox News are one and the same, or that joining with Norquist for anything would at all be a good idea in promoting progressive causes.

    Basically, we stumble into dumbassery really well. And ED Kain brings that out in you in spades, because he’s not very smart, he’s a giant asshole, he doesn’t respond to factual challenges, refuses to take back factual errors and constantly plays the victim and demands you sacrifice your dignity and your credibility “protecting” him from “unfair” attacks and “attempts to oust him”.

    Keep him, it’s your choice only, as you have well made clear.

    But perhaps consider falling less often for this incredibly tired right-wing “posing as the victim” bullshit especially as it makes your posts calling people out for falling for it a little harder to read.

    Lovingly,
    Cerberus

  106. 106
    Mnemosyne says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    I hate you.

  107. 107
    Concerned Citizen says:

    My 2 cents: I like Ed
    His comments on Loko were spot on. It’s important to have multiple views on issues. Debate and disagreement are good.

  108. 108
    celticdragonchick says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    LMAO!

    Yeah, I was stealing that one and you caught me!

    :)

  109. 109
    mbss says:

    naw. libertarians are good to argue with. he should stick around.

    fun debates.@celticdragonchick:

    let’s split the difference and go galt.

    meet you in the gulch.

  110. 110
    James E. Powell says:

    John Cole is just channeling foreign policy expert John “Cut the Shit” McCain.

  111. 111
    WyldPirate says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    OT, celticdragonchick, but I answered you down in the other thread.

    We’re good. I just get my back-up pretty easy and I’m not one to take shit from people. I see you’re not either and I respect that.

  112. 112
    scarshapedstar says:

    @mbss:

    Actually, I don’t really think his posts are that bad. The infamous Garbage Post was close, but the fact that he’s posting it here and not on some Stalinist/Jobsian wingnut walled garden (“Your comment is awaiting approval by the blog owner.”) means it’s fine by me.

    I mean, hey, the guy likes trains.

  113. 113
    mbss says:

    this discussion is getting out of hand.

    what we need is some sort of ombudsman.

  114. 114
    MobiusKlein says:

    So Authoritarian now means letting co-bloggers post what they want?
    I’m sooo confused.

  115. 115
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cerberus: Epic.

  116. 116
    Redshirt says:

    I also like pie. I once drove up and down Maine, from the very South to the very North, eating pie. The best pie was in Mars Hills.

  117. 117
    kdaug says:

    Wow. Must have missed out on some epic bitching.

  118. 118
    mbss says:

    linkie to garbage post please.

  119. 119

    @Corner Stone:

    I’ve never read the Agitator. Had Doug not trotted out his tired snark shtick about it over here, we wouldn’t be having this flamew… err, I mean discussion.

  120. 120
    celticdragonchick says:

    @WyldPirate:

    Cool.

  121. 121
    scarshapedstar says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    lol u mad? I recommend you go to… oh wait… never mind ;)

  122. 122
    mbss says:

    i like pie and lamp

  123. 123
    Corner Stone says:

    @mbss: You short changed yourself on that one amigo.
    “This discussion is getting out of hand. What we need is some sort of person who could listen to complaints and decide their merit.
    If only there were a word for something like that. Oh well, I guess I’ll check out comments at The Agitator to see if they have any ideas.”

  124. 124
    celticdragonchick says:

    @mbss:

    let’s split the difference and go galt.
    meet you in the gulch.

    Too late. I is already with-holdin’ mah produktivitee.

  125. 125
    Cerberus says:

    @kdaug:

    No, you didn’t.

    That’s what makes this so pathetic.

  126. 126
  127. 127
    Dollared says:

    I wasn’t taking the whole thing seriously at all, but I think Cerberus is right about ED doing the Rightian victim thing.

    1)Start an argument with bullshit
    2)followup with bullshit when you are called on it
    3) if nobody at all buys your bullshit, say you were treated poorly and you were thrown out.

    ED, you’re always welcome in my book. Stay here long enough and you’ll make your way onto Fox. Even ED Kain form the leftist blog BJ says….

  128. 128
    scarshapedstar says:

    @mbss:

    Gotta break it up for the spam filter.

    It Begins

  129. 129
    jl says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    AsiangrrlMN is correct again. This here lefty blog needs an ombudsman. I had a list of about eleventy seven complaints to submit to Kain. And now what?

    Where is our ombudsman?

    When I saw this, my general reaction was ‘whatever’ and though it would be fun to read the teasing commenters gave to Kain. Or Cole’s snarky post as a follow up.

    But I am naive and simple minded. I leave it to experts to decide whether this is a major code red instance of insufferable blog disrespect and federal case breach of blog etiquette, It is over my paygrade.

    I think the whole thing can be fixed by more Cole pet pics and food posts, is my opinion.

    Whenever Cole sobers up, hope he posts about something interesting, some poltics, or stepping in dog poo, or latest RAMPS! news.

  130. 130
    mbss says:

    href=”#comment-2216309″>Corner Stone:

    too true. i wasted the funny.

  131. 131
    srv says:

    Wait John, does that mean you didn’t like Tom in Texas?

    And next time, could you tell Ann to win the evening with ABL?

  132. 132
  133. 133
    mbss says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    thank you, thank you, thank you.

    finally, i can see for myself.

  134. 134
    General Stuck says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    And I hate you. I wouldn’t have clicked if you hadn’t . Jeebus, that is some sick shit.

  135. 135

    @Konrad:

    When ED first started posting here, he said why he couldn’t respond to all the comments; he posted from work and did not have enough time, IIRC. There are also a lot of comments to respond to, so I don’t really understand the hate about the comments thing.

    The comments are what make the blog. Balloon Juice is not about an elite group of front pagers pronouncing truth and marching orders from on high, with comments only so that the readers can say how brilliant the front pagers are. It’s about discussion and argument. It may wind up being about snarky discussion and heated argument, but it’s still about some kind of intellectual back-and-forth. Active front pager participation in the comments- especially comments for that front pager’s own posts- are key. If ED doesn’t have the time to participate fully in the discussions he starts, maybe he doesn’t have enough time to be a full-time front pager.

  136. 136
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    Bring back Darrell.

  137. 137
    geg6 says:

    @Cerberus:

    I think I love you. Seriously.

  138. 138
    jl says:

    @kdaug:

    “Wow. Must have missed out on some epic bitching.”

    I could not effing believe all the fuss. I was looking forward to teasing our resident reasonable conservatarian whatever he is about it. But looks like it t’taint funny.

    At least it is preserved for posterity, for future anthropologists to wonder over, whatever planet they come from.

  139. 139
    WyldPirate says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    Damn, scarshapedstar. That’s one fucking disturbing link. Reminds me of something a Rumsfeld or Cheney fanboi might fancy.

  140. 140
    scarshapedstar says:

    @General Stuck:
    @WyldPirate:

    Dudes, you gotta prop your eyelids open, Clockwork Orange style, and go ALL! THE! WAY!

    Thing’s like 300 pages long.

  141. 141
    Dennis G. says:

    For what’s worth. Thanks John for the invite to write here.

    The freedom and the blend of ideas serious and not so serious is what makes this place so damn interesting.

    Back in the day I used to publish a weekly newspaper. Our readers and some of our writers grew to think of it as their own paper, their own community. That was a good thing, but it was my paper and every now and then I would decide something or set down a policy. Sometimes there were folks who did not like that I would do that without their approval or taking a vote or a poll or consulting all the readers or some other reason. It was then that I would remind them it was my paper and if they did not like it they were free to read something else or start their own paper. I would remind them that being a crackpot with a newspaper was a fine tradition and they should jump on in.

    I remember being called a dictator more than a few times. So it goes.

    Cheers

    Cheers

  142. 142
    celticdragonchick says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    What. The. Fuck. Was. That.

    I need to bleach my brain.

  143. 143
    Cat Lady says:

    I’ve apparently once again missed someone saying something that was wrong on the internet. I was off having a life. However, whatever Cole says about what he feels about his invited guests saying whatever they want as long as they’re still invited guests on his sucky blog (;-), is a-ok with me, cuz this place is getting better and better. Maybe, or I could be wrong on the internet.

  144. 144
    BR says:

    @Anton Sirius:

    I must have missed where DougJ did that. And IMHO, the sum total of ED’s posts have less insight than the average DougJ post, so there’s that.

  145. 145
    Redshirt says:

    I also enjoy watching, but not participating in, blog drama. My people call it blogma.

  146. 146
    mbss says:

    oh, good fucking lord.

    the guy won me over.

    let’s privatize trash and water.

    *crossing fingers* please, please, please let nestle enter the water market. it will be like a willy wonka fantasy every night at bath time.

    wheeeeeeeee.

    augustus, darling, save room for later.

  147. 147
    General Stuck says:

    @Cerberus:

    Lighten up Francis, or Cerebrus. jeesh. It’s only blogging.

  148. 148
    LiberalTarian says:

    Good on you John. Funny how people will think it is OK to bully as long as they are the ones doing the bullying. Cuz of course, they are good and enlightened and everyone else is shit!!

    Lol. Let ’em bitch. And ED? You just keep being yourself bro. I may not agree, but I’m not going to harsh your buzz.

  149. 149
    BR says:

    @Dollared:

    Yeah, I think Cerberus and you are right about that. I can see Andrew Sullivan indeeding ED’s posts more often now since the mean leftists here went on a vile campaign against him like all mean leftists do.

  150. 150
    Redshirt says:

    @Dennis G.: Damn right Dennis. It’s why a Republic works far better than any pure democracy could ever, in the larger scales (more than five people).

    I also want to say how much I enjoy your articles here on BJ. Really, really appreciate the effort.

  151. 151
    Corner Stone says:

    @Roger Moore:

    It may wind up being about snarky discussion and heated argument

    Or a snarky argument about heaters.

  152. 152
    scarshapedstar says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    I had a change of heart and went to add a disclaimer like “Ask yourself: do you really want to know where a discussion about 4chan and goatse is headed?” but then somebody else posted and the comment was edit-locked.

    So I’ll put it here:

    Unless you’re a hardened /b/tard or a Surgeon (vague, inside-jokey pun intended) or god forbid both… don’t click that link way up the thread.

    ThereIFixedIt

  153. 153
    IronyAbounds says:

    @geg6: You’ve nailed the problem. The whole ombudsman comment was made after one of the douchebags at that website basically took a shit on Balloon Juice. After being given the privilege of posting here, E.D. should have defended Cole and the site, even if he is on the opposite side politically of most people here. If Kain thinks so little of this site, he should voluntarily leave. At a minimum he should apologize for his rudeness – not simply cop to using the wrong verbiage. Apparently libertarians aren’t particularly fond of common courtesy.

    Frankly, I really could not care less who else Cole brings in to post on the FP. I rarely read anyone’s posts other than his.

  154. 154
    JGabriel says:

    John Cole: A-fucking-right. All of it.

    .

  155. 155
    mbss says:

    augment the wind up about discussing snark?

  156. 156
    Jim Yeager says:

    Those who disagree can pound sand

    I’ll drink to that…

  157. 157
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Dennis G.: I wonder if it really is an American thing, kind of drummed into us in grade school, that participation in any collective endeavor should involve voting. ED suddenly needs a vote for validation, even though he really doesn’t need one. My own mindless voting on the matter, just cause he asked and so I might as well…

    Cross cultural insights…anyone?

  158. 158
    Comrade Luke says:

    @Roger Moore: But I do think some people have a point, in that E.D. claimed to not have enough time and/or was not able to participate in the comments, but declared himself BJ Ombudsman…in the comments section of another blog.

    I don’t know why we’re even bothering with this. E.D.’s not even here. He’s probably at the Applebee’s salad bar with Kip Esquire, getting inspiration for his next post.

  159. 159
    freelancer says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    After the reactions from other people, there’s no way I’m touching that.

  160. 160
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @scarshapedstar: That was the most horrible thing ever. I would claw my eyes out, but I don’t want those images to be the last thing they perceive. You bastard.

  161. 161
  162. 162
    Corner Stone says:

    @Dennis G.:

    Sometimes there were folks who did not like that I would do that without their approval or taking a vote or a poll or consulting all the readers or some other reason.

    That’s a good common sense reminder, thanks.

    Of course, no one here called for a vote regarding anything on Cole’s blog, IIRC. I certainly didn’t see anyone say EDK should be banned for poor word choice.

  163. 163
    Cerberus says:

    @General Stuck:

    Uh, I agreed with his position to keep ED, only noting the obvious that no one was ousting him and that falling for right-wing victim stancing when half your posts are bitching at people for falling for right-wing antics like “playing the victim” it really undercuts one’s point.

    So…

    Not really all that invested in it one way or another but after the tenth time or so this has happened, seemed like someone should point out the obvious.

    Of course, maybe this is sadly, no! and I should just be making poop jokes instead.

    If so, I heartily apologize.

    Poop.

  164. 164
    Anaboly says:

    Very long time lurker here. Started reading when Cole was still a Republican. I believe it was something from GOS that sent me over here – years ago – and just wanted to throw my two cents in…

    I have no problem with any of the frontpagers. I agree with others above that there are some things I don’t care to read about. I skip those posts. I almost never skip reading someone’s post just because. ED stays. And what happened to TimF? What once were frequent posts have become extremely rare. Perhaps there are things he writes that I just don’t see – I think this speaks to how much attention I pay to the “By:” line.

    After all, I think, in some bizarro universe, if John Cole (c. 2003-4) were invited to blog alongside John Cole (c. 2010), some would probably demand that he be voted off the isle. Fun thought experiment: I wonder who will dredge the archives and merely quote the ‘old’ Cole to troll. I daresay, it would 100% work. And, frankly, I’d be extremely suprised if it hasn’t been tried. (Admittedly, I have never been much of a comment-reader. Yes, bad on me.)

  165. 165
    jl says:

    @scarshapedstar: Too late. After the second awful wierdness, went right to the end.

    Ha ha.

    What asinine garbage was that thing?

    I’m going to scrub my cache tonight. Double scrub.

  166. 166
    mbss says:

    all those who got scarred by shapedstar

    cannot be unseen. that’s why i’ve still never seen 2girls1cup.

    and i only went an inch down the page to the crazy eyed baby thing and the rampant herpes infection.

  167. 167
    Jim, Once says:

    @mbss:

    Whoa . . . where did you come from?

  168. 168
    scarshapedstar says:

    @mbss:

    Well the really silly thing is that when, say, the military contracts Halliburton to do something, this is referred to as ‘privatization’. Hell, even ED would probably agree without reservation that privatizing the military has been a disaster.

    But when City Hall contracts a private company to pick up trash, this is a socialist monopoly.

    Lolwut?

  169. 169
    moe99 says:

    @asiangrrlMN: Thanks for the ref on HP. Can’t wait to see it.

  170. 170
    Ash Can says:

    For holy sweltering fuck’s sake, are you all still fighting about this?

    ::headdesk::

    This joint makes my ass tired. Will you guys all just go and have a beer and SHUT THE GODDAMNED FUCKING HELL UP already?

    Goodfuckingnight.

  171. 171
    mbss says:

    @Jim, Once:

    galt’s gulch. they told us to mingle with the parasites and do-nothing slackers and bring back notes and snickers.

  172. 172
    eemom says:

    much fuckery about nothing.

  173. 173
    Corner Stone says:

    @Comrade Luke:

    He’s probably at the Applebee’s salad bar with Kip Esquire, getting inspiration for his next post.

    Isn’t Kip’s Law something like, “Anytime someone starts saying you should vote to validate their self worth, they *always* imagine themselves as the ones doing the vote counting.”

  174. 174
    danimal says:

    @scarshapedstar: OMG, I hate you all. Brain bleach, please.

  175. 175
    scarshapedstar says:

    @mbss:

    Well the preposterous thing is that when, say, the military contracts Halliburton to do something, this is referred to as ‘privatization’.

    Hell, I’m sure ED would agree that privatizing the military has been a disaster.

    But when City Hall contracts a private company to pick up trash, this is a socialist guvmint monopoly.

    Lolwut?

  176. 176
    mbss says:

    i eat at the applebee’s salad bar all the time with my broheims davey gergen and davey brooks.

    we usually go and smoke a blunt in the back afterwards and brooks keeps his pockets stuffed with ceasar croutons.

    salt of the earth.

  177. 177
    Mnemosyne says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    I still hate you.

    Some things cannot be unseen.

  178. 178
    scarshapedstar says:

    @danimal:

    Oh come on. After people say stuff like…

    Jeebus, that is some sick shit.

    That’s one fucking disturbing link.

    I would claw my eyes out, but I don’t want those images to be the last thing they perceive.

    …you’re just rubbernecking.

  179. 179
    Comrade Luke, Ombudsman says:

    @mbss: I find portions of your comment factually incorrect.

  180. 180
    danimal says:

    On topic. I usually like ED’s contributions, even when I disagree. I don’t like the extremely thin skin and his condescending attitude when he posts about BJ on other sites.

    By all means, he should stay, but I have a hard time recommending him when he makes it appear that he’s just slumming over here.

  181. 181
    Cerberus says:

    @Ash Can:

    Yes, let us all yell loudly into the night angrily denouncing the non-existent campaign to get rid of ED Kain.

    Jesus fucking a spatula while riding a dinosaur, is there something ingrained into the American mindset where we enjoy getting played for fools by dim-witted right-wingers.

    I mean, we’ve got everyone and their mother tripping over themselves to fall for O’Keefe’s antics. We’ve got the entire media pretending the Tea Party is in any way “new”. We’ve got creationism, global-warming “skepticism”, and anti-choice terrorism treated as serious points of view that need to be weighed heavily against reality.

    And we’ve got ED Kain playing the comments and the front-pagers, getting everyone to “defend” him from an “ousting campaign” that he invented out of whole-cloth by posting an emo poll on the front page after getting called out (lovingly) yet again for once again doing something idiotic.

    Guys, he’s basically demanding freedom from criticism and John Cole and all of us are falling for this shit.

    Sure, he’ll be here, like a mentally challenged cousin, but we can at least stop falling for his pity-seeking stunts every single time he pulls them.

    No one’s trying to get rid of him.

    No one.

    There’s no “argument” you’re fighting against.

  182. 182
    Comrade Luke says:

    That scarshapedscar link is brutal. Avoid it at all costs.

  183. 183
    mbss says:

    @danimal:

    aren’t we all just slumming here?

    this is the compton of the internets.

  184. 184
    DarrenG says:

    Bravo, John.

    The thing that originally attracted me here was your honest truth seeking and self-reflection during the Bush years as I was going through a similar period of political self-evaluation.

    I get the same vibe from ED, and am glad to have both of you in my RSS reality.

  185. 185
    Dee Loralei says:

    I’m going to bed, because I seem to have a Harry Potter hangover from last night. ( When did I get too old for a midnight movie? God why hast thou forsaken me?)

    I voted in the Anne Laurie thread earlier to keep ED around and my vote is the same now. And listen folks, ED didn’t come to this GBCW letter on his own, the calls demanding it were in the AL thread and in the previous DougJ thread.

    I’ll repeat again here what I said there, ED is a smart, thoughtful young man. He’s teachable. I’ve watched him over and over again come back to his original premise and agree with us. This is a good thing. It makes us hone our arguments better for the meatspace. And it proves that there are many areas with which we already agree with the libertarians. And every time we convince ED of the right-ness of our viewpoints, I bet we reach at least one other person who reads this blog and never comments.

    And honestly, having someone who isn’t a tribe member posting here, somewhat regularly is good for us. We need to hear the other side, and we need to hear their best arguments. They aren’t always wrong. And we aren’t always right. And also, too, without the locus of our focus being anything but other Dems, or the idiot republicans the voters have elevated to office, we become a daisy-chaining circular firing squad of fire-baggers V pragmatist; liberals V progressives, etc.( In other words, we jerk off our own half of our side and then we try to scalp and defenestrate the other half of our own.) We’re in the lobster tank without rubber bands for our pincers and we start cannibalizing our own side. And that is a bad thing. Maybe after 2020 when the demographic time-bomb explodes, maybe then we can think more in terms of purity. But right now – 2016 we must stand and band together. If we can’t keep the White House and re-take-back Congress in 2012, hold Congress in 2014 and keep them both in 2016 there is seriously no hope left for this country. There are still and will be for the immediate future too many dire things we must address as a nation. If we fail, then we descend into true full-bore fascism and oligarchy. So suck it up people, one more decade, get us through this perilous and parlous time. We’re gonna need ED and Radley Balko and Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher. And then we can turn the purity tests over to the quisserat hadderat, or our kids.

    I know this is TL;DR. But keep ED and, I’ll be the first to say it, I miss MichaelD. So there.

  186. 186
    General Stuck says:

    @Ash Can:

    G’night Ash Can, get a good nights rest and we can do it all again tomorrow :—)

    I try to view it as a perk of modern technology. Whenever I get the urge to run away and join the circus, now I can just turn my computer on and visit Balloon Juice.

    Bearded ladies, fire eaters, flying trapeze, and lot’s of clowns. Only a mouse click away.

  187. 187
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Mnemosyne: Can we voting on the hating? I vote yes.

  188. 188
    mbss says:

    so what ever happened to brick oven bill?

    is E.D. the new B.O.B.?

  189. 189
    scarshapedstar says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Well, if it’s any consolation, I thought I’d numbed myself a long time ago, but then I started working at a homeless clinic, and damn near threw up when I had to treat my first cellulitic foot.

    Smelled like gangrene. There are things you can never unsmell, too, and they’re far worse.

  190. 190
    Jim, Once says:

    @mbss:
    I presume you’re ED’s personal troll . . . good for you for jumping right in here. Seriously, though, I’ve gotta go to bed – taking care of the grandbabies tomorrow. bainow.

  191. 191

    @Comrade Luke:
    I hadn’t really thought about the aspect of him not having time to respond in his own posts here, but having time to post comments on other blogs. It’s not so much that he said anything disparaging about Balloon Juice- I’m willing to accept that the “ombudsman” bit was a poor choice of words- but that he gave them the courtesy of discussion that he’s not willing to give us.

  192. 192
    mbss says:

    We’re gonna need ED and Radley Balko and Glenn Greenwald and Jane Hamsher.

    please don’t lump GG in with those guys.

    qualitatively better. hamsher is all right, too.

  193. 193
    WyldPirate says:

    @Cerberus:
    Damn, dude. You’re funny as shit.

    I would enjoy reading you as an FP’er here.

  194. 194
    JoshA says:

    I’ll also get called a troll, because I think ED adds something. I don’t agree with most of what he says, but I don’t get the fury toward him personally.

    Moot point, as John points out, because its his site and he decides who stays and goes. If you feel like you can’t enjoy Balloon Juice because of E.D. Kain, well, its a big internet out there.

  195. 195
    KDP says:

    Here! Why don’t you all have a good laugh on me.

    I enjoy ED’s posts. I don’t always agree, but they make me think. I enjoy all of the posters and most of the commenters here.

    You go, John.

    also, too.

  196. 196
    Corner Stone says:

    @Dee Loralei:

    And listen folks, ED didn’t come to this GBCW letter on his own, the calls demanding it were in the AL thread and in the previous DougJ thread.

    IMO, this just isn’t true. I read both threads and there’s some bashing of EDK, and some language that people either don’t read his posts or wouldn’t miss his posts if gone, but I don’t see any “demands” that EDK leave.

  197. 197
    Corner Stone says:

    God. Cole drunken front page troll post strikes again.
    It’s too bad Halloween is over because there are enough strawmen being built here to defend a freakin pumpkin farm.

  198. 198
    mbss says:

    @JoshA:

    actually, josh, the internet is not that big. i’ve reached the final boss and defeated him.

    http://kotaku.com/5685386/new-.....n-expected

  199. 199
    Cerberus says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Precisely.

    It’s just yet another retread of the familiar right-wing con.

    The one that goes:

    Any criticism of me is an attempt to silence me.

    Thus any critics of me can be ignored, because they are irrational haters.

    And since my critics are irrational and trying to silence me, there must be something worth silencing (i.e. revelatory or worthy of reading or responding to) in my statements and I should be taken more seriously.

    Since I’m such an important voice, it’s important that all fair-minded liberals should earnestly come to my defense against “bad liberals” who are all about group-think and gosh, isn’t hippie punching an easy habit to fall into.

    Sheesh, it’s tired, rote, run of the mill, a con so old that we could recite it by heart. And of course, for those of us…not so privileged, there is that extra note that this only works for white male conservatives.

    Actual minority voices genuinely silenced or ignored because of reasons of error stemming from trying to make arguments while black, possessing lady bits, or daring to be all faggy and non-normative of course are never listened to, while everyone will fall over backwards to “defend” a poor beleagured right-wing troll from his latest tired victim pose.

    It’s like we enjoy being played for rubes.

  200. 200
    ruemara says:

    @Corner Stone:
    There were a couple of demands that Ed leave. Considering who’s blog it is, I found that to be just as arrogant as Ed’s ombudsman comment. At least Ed backtracked that.

  201. 201
    Corner Stone says:

    @ruemara: Who? I saw A Duck use some rough language but he later added the issue was s/he felt EDK didn’t hit the comment section at all.
    Please link to a demand so I can see what you’re referencing, because after reading the two threads once, and skimming a second time I didn’t see a demand.

  202. 202

    @Cerberus: I thought this comment thread pretty much ended here:

    You are yelling at your readers for something your front pager wrote on your blog. He used that “free reign” to be emo. He used that “free reign” to make it seem like there was a campaign to oust him because Anne Laurie rightfully called him out on some double-facing bullshit.

    And now you are writing a post and an update yelling that we can’t overrule your desire to keep him.

    Great.

    I mean, I hate the guy and find him to be the same sort of “Sunday talk show personality” that makes your criticisms of the unfortunate state of the media a wee bit hypocritical if not accurate, but…

    Great.

    But see, this is an argument you need to have with ED Kain.

    Because none of us tried to get him fired. None of us hacked the front page with a poll saying: ED Kain gone yes/no.

    ED Kain on his own volition decided to throw that shit out there because he was butt hurt about being called out by another front pager and wanted to feel all martyred by the mean old liberals who bother to fact-check his factually-challenged, poorly thought out bullshit.

    So, you want to yell at someone “bucking your authority” as the decider of who goes and who stays?

    Yell at ED Kain.

    Because he’s the one who tried to “throw out a poll” because he wanted to play the martyr.

    But you won’t.

    Because there’s something horribly wrong with those of us on the left. We want to believe that our political opponents have some redemption in them. Thus, we entertain idiocies like lowering the playing field, pretending that criticisms of right-wing blather are hate speech, that the left has an “epistemic closure” problem, that MSNBC and Fox News are one and the same, or that joining with Norquist for anything would at all be a good idea in promoting progressive causes.

    Basically, we stumble into dumbassery really well. And ED Kain brings that out in you in spades, because he’s not very smart, he’s a giant asshole, he doesn’t respond to factual challenges, refuses to take back factual errors and constantly plays the victim and demands you sacrifice your dignity and your credibility “protecting” him from “unfair” attacks and “attempts to oust him”.

    Keep him, it’s your choice only, as you have well made clear.

    But perhaps consider falling less often for this incredibly tired right-wing “posing as the victim” bullshit especially as it makes your posts calling people out for falling for it a little harder to read.

    (my block quoting skills have failed me)

  203. 203
    Cerberus says:

    @ruemara:

    Demands no one has managed to find…

    Demands even if found would be nothing more than nutpicking…

    Demands not at all congruent with the “campaign to oust him” which requires multiple iterations of demands to “Leave ED Alone!!!” That requires hundreds of comments fighting in the other direction as if there was some form of organization to remove him from the front page, apparently with some ninjitsu guerrilla tactics that allows Joe Shmoe commenter to affect blog decisions?

    And did I mention that these so called demands aren’t really easy to find and haven’t yet been cited.

    I mean, if David Brooks gets the evil eye from some crazy homeless guy while he’s visiting the escort service known as “Applebee’s Salad Bar”, does that mean we all have to flagellate ourselves and angrily fight against the attempt to assassinate him with mental ray bolts?

    There’s no campaign to oust him. I mean, it’d probably be better for the blog’s credibility when critiquing people falling for right-wing talking points if he wasn’t a front pager (or if John wasn’t so easy to dupe into defending him from non-existent attack), but no one’s calling for his head.

    And that’s the problem. We know he offers nothing but smarmy, poorly thought out talking points that he refuses to correct the factual errors of. And no one’s trying to get rid of him or silence him because “he’s so right and we can’t take it”.

    We just view him like the right-wing troll he is, correcting him when we can be arsed, rolling our eyes and ignoring him when we can’t.

    And so he needs to play the con of the victim, because otherwise he can’t pretend that the criticisms of his work are actually factual and valid, that maybe there really is no point to “listening to the right’s ‘sane’ members” because they are just as crazy and stupid and without merit.

    And if that’s true, then what about the two-horse races? The Republican vs Democratic narrative?

    And we’re too scared to live in that world, so we roll over and play along, eager to be duped once again.

  204. 204
    Dee Loralei says:

    @Corner Stone: I stand corrected. There were demands that Cole dump ED, not that ED himself leave.

    And most of the dump ED comments were more along the lines of “I never read him”, ” Oh, he’s boring, I quit reading him,” or ” Ya know, he’s pretty much an idiot, why does anyone read him?” Or, ” Cole, why is he still here?” or, “Cole, why did you invite him here?” Or “Cole, he doesn’t add anything to us as a group.”Or, ” I have no respect for a guy who posts, but doesn’t follow- through in comments.”Or, “he’s always fucking wrong and defensive, why is he on this blog?” ( Basically, some passive-aggressive calling for ED’s head on a pike, or at least a self-immolation.)

    I’m paraphrasing, but I stand by the intent behind my original comment, which you quoted. Most of them were the same things hipsters say about why they no longer like such and such band. Basically, the band was cool, back when it’s audience was small and elite. But now that everyone has discovered them, they kinda lost their panache and cachet. And frankly the speakers dislike says more about the speaker, than it does about the band, (or in this case, the front pager) in question.

  205. 205
    Mark S. says:

    @scarshapedstar:

    That’s a fair interpretation. Nietzsche thought Socrates was tired of life. Personally, I think Plato didn’t record all of the dialogues where Socrates argued to keep the government out of his Medicare.

  206. 206
    mbss says:

    the only question is this:

    in which ways do you guys have your finger in the pie of the government trash monopoly?

  207. 207
    mbss says:

    Most of them were the same things hipsters say about why they no longer like such and such band. Basically, the band was cool, back when it’s audience was small and elite.

    so you’re saying E.D. is phil collins?

    sussudio still holds up to this day.

  208. 208
    Corner Stone says:

    @Mark S.: Socrates was one cranky son of a bitch.
    Or so I’ve always inferred.

  209. 209

    @Mark S.:
    You have to admit, though, that he needed to look out for the Death Panels.

  210. 210
    Cerberus says:

    @Dee Loralei:

    So people validly critiquing the rather remarkably defended viewpoint that ED offers very little of merit (while still respecting John’s final decision on the matter) is the same as a campaign to oust him, because…passive-aggression?

    Right…

    Why are we liberals so eager to lower our standards of critique when the subject is right-wing idiots.

    Suddenly, critique is “unfair” or “silencing”, people registering an opinion in contrary is “hate speech” or “seeking to eliminate”, and so on…

    Jesus on a rocket ship, I wish right-wing fantasies of political correctness were right and this sort of shit worked for minority groups. It’d be awesome for say black people commenting on social racism to be listened to at all, much less be able to silence all possible dissent whenever they spoke.

    But sadly white male conservative projection once again keeps all of those toys only for the “deserving”.

  211. 211
    mbss says:

    hemlock could really bend the curve on health care…

    ekg’s psssshhh.

  212. 212
    Corner Stone says:

    @Dee Loralei: Well, let’s be a little more clear. Because I find this distinction very relevant.
    There’s a difference between trashing EDK, saying you don’t read his posts, you’re pissed about lack of interaction, and on and on ~ and telling Cole to take the keys away from EDK.
    And let’s get down to it. I’m having a very, very hard time finding even one post that says either Cole should dump EDK or the commentariat should “vote” to get rid of EDK.
    And if I’m having a hard time finding a theme of those kinds of posts then it makes me curious as to what motivated EDK to throw down the “vote for me” gauntlet post.
    Because if any FP’er here starts questioning their FP status after maybe four or five really directly harsh posts spread across 2 threads totaling 400 or more comments, then I think that says more about the front page poster than it does anyone else.

  213. 213
    lawnorder says:

    I may not agree with a single thing ED says, but I will fight to the death (or ban) to protect his right to post it here, where he was invited.

    Seriously people, get a grip. don’t like ED’s posts ? Don’t read them. BJ is big enough for all of us crazy politics junkies.

  214. 214
    Cerberus says:

    @Cerberus:

    And again, my main objection is that one of the biggest topics we discuss again and again on Balloon Juice is the huge social problem where the media seems almost eager to fall prey to right-wing stunts.

    And then we fall repeatedly for right-wing stunts, arguing about “groupthink” and “systemic closure” on the left as if the left’s circular firing squad tendencies wasn’t the biggest clue that the “left” is an amorphous collective of disparate minority groups and social and economic justice issues, and of course bending over and over again to a right-wing troll’s continuous claims of victimhood whenever he is rightfully criticized for being a factually-challenged idiot and a douchebag.

    It makes us look like idiots who don’t even comprehend what we read on this very blog. Like the exact type of tribe-first idiots that “ED’s presence on this blog was supposed to combat”.

    And it paints a worrying social picture.

    That maybe the desire to play into right-wing lowered standards rather than dare write them off, even for a second, means there’s no way the Overton Window or sane governance will ever come back.

    Because we don’t have the social strength, even in the progressive community to avoid falling for this shit again and again. Firebagger, BJ commentariat, Democratic Senate members, ostensibly liberal humorists…

    It seems ingrained…unavoidable.

    And that really needs to change.

    In the media. In our government. And yeah, even on silly little blogs.

    We don’t need to get rid of ED Kain, we need to stop falling for his bullshit every time he tries to play us. No one’s trying to get rid of him. At all.

    And when we allow his fictional world of secret liberal oppression to be treated like the real world, we lose a little credibility, a little fortitude…

    And well…

    We look like fucking idiots. Because we keep on getting played.

    Seriously, does anyone else read the posts on this blog?

  215. 215
    E.D. Kain says:

    @IronyAbounds: I will defend ‘this site’ when this site becomes more important than the ideas being discussed. Or how about when all of you defend me? Yeah, that’s not going to happen and I don’t expect it to. The site hardly needs my defense, and if and when it actually does (say, maybe Balko turns into a website-eating zombie and comes after it) then I will. Until such time, gosh, I thought we were debating ideas.

    John – thanks for this and all – I don’t mean to start drama AT ALL. If I had thought my little comment over at Balko’s would hurt so many feelings I sure wouldn’t have said it.

  216. 216
    Jane2 says:

    Jesus, tell that to whiny ED, not to your readers/commenters. He’s the one who decided to go all Emo on us, clutch his free-market-driven pearls, and demand a vote…no one was demanding that he leave.

    And yay, Anne Laurie for calling him on his original bs.

  217. 217
    mclaren says:

    Good. Kain is a good addition to the lineup. Sometimes I disagree with him. Tough tit. That’s life.

    You don’t like the guy, don’t read his posts. There’s something on your computer keyboard called the PgDn key. Use it.

  218. 218
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @TaMara (BHF):
    “I have no idea what’s going on. But E D Kain has my vote. I don’t give a fuck if I agree with anything he writes. I have no desire to be part of something that is just a giant group hug of similar ideas.

    Since most of the opinions I have read on whether or not he should stay or go are on the ‘stay’ side, would you like to change your statement or remain in the warming embrace of a giant group hug?

    ;)

  219. 219
    Cerberus says:

    @lawnorder:

    Fuck it.

    I would like to give a hearty congratulations to the Anti-Kitten-Burning Campaign.

    It’s important that so many voices come together in unity to denounce kitten-burning and rail angrily against those, the apparently myriad horde, who shockingly support the practice.

    If it wasn’t for your brave vigilance, obviously there would be nothing to stop the kitten-burnings and those who would defend the practice. I salute you all…

    Now, back here in reality?

    Please, please, I’m begging you all, please stop your angry denunciations of a non-existent campaign. No one’s trying to get rid of ED, he’s trolling us to play victim after being called out on douc.hebaggery (lovingly, I might add, by other front pagers), because he’s a douc.hebag and this is an old right-wing con played constantly against the media and easily cowed Democratic Senators and Blue Dogs.

    Please, kindly, stop falling for it.

    Can you at least try, just once? It’d be a nice change of pace.

    Sheesh, if I wanted to see people falling en masse for right-wing bullshit, I’d start reading Fire Dog Lake.

  220. 220
    Ailuridae says:

    @Cerberus:

    This comment wins the thread.

  221. 221
    Martin says:

    Glad to be so busy at work during the drama. My daughter got invited to attend the AMAs on sunday. I sure as fuck didn’t do anything that cool when I was 9.

    Not sure why everyone is so pissed about ED, though. Have a few drinks and leave him be. I don’t always agree with him, but it’s Cole’s blog, and it’s good to have other voices.

  222. 222
    Cerberus says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    Didn’t you say you didn’t have time for comment threads…

    Or facts…

    Also, did you read the thread? Your attention-seeking gambit paid off. There’s at least 200 posts sucking your cock and willing to join the anti-kitten-burning brigade to “save” you from the non-existent campaign to oust you. So I’d say, you’re “being stood up for here” above and beyond what you deserve.

    Speaking of what you deserve?

    Your comment here couldn’t have sounded do,uchier if you were trying at it.

  223. 223
    mbss says:

    how can i support the campaign to end kitten burning?

  224. 224
    slag says:

    I have intentionally paid approximately zero attention to any of this nonsense, but history suggests that the debate goes to Cerberus for the most part. I’m partial to Kain on general principle (although rarely the practice) of wanting to see different points of view discussed. But I also recognize that the bar has been lowered for Kain in some ways.

    Honestly, Cole, DougJ, Mistermix et al talk out of their asses at times and often find themselves in the position of getting called on it. Rather than simply taking offense, they either defend themselves vigorously or back down from their ass-talking. Kain would do well to avail himself of that particular strategery. Otherwise, the tension just builds and builds and the emo invariably ensues. Just like it does with most conversations between people who disagree but can’t either see or articulate their specific points of disagreement.

    My biggest issue with Kain’s writing is that it relies so heavily on platitudes that it’s unpersuasive to those of us who don’t already agree with him. And his slippery slope arguments tend to only go one way. Neither of these attributes contribute much to a debate. That said, the municipal waste arguments were entertaining. To a point.

  225. 225
    fasteddie9318 says:

    Cerberus, good on you for pointing out that the “DRIVE ED FROM OUR MIDST” campaign was, really, started by ED. But the avalanche of “LEAVE ED” alone posts is too powerful to resist.

    Look, ED, you said something dumb and kind of offensive, then corrected it into something slightly less dumb and offensive, then decided to adopt the right wing victimhood role, and you succeeded with dozens of comments defending you against the insidious campaign to get rid of you that you started. You’re like the Drudge of Balloon Juice; you rule our world. Everybody have a cookie and let it go.

  226. 226
    E.D. Kain says:

    @Cerberus: This is a blog. I don’t think we’re obligated to defend it from all attacks any more than you are obligated to defend me. If I disagree with something written here I’ll disagree with it – it’s not personal. If I agree with something and someone takes a shot at it then I might defend that, too, but we are talking about people disagreeing over ideas here, right?

  227. 227
    fasteddie9318 says:

    Don’t listen to mbss. He’s a fifth columnist in the battle to end kitten burning.

  228. 228
    mbss says:

    cerberus is a civil servant.

  229. 229
    mbss says:

    @fasteddie9318:

    Don’t listen to mbss. He’s a fifth columnist in the battle to end kitten burning.

    you can’t prove that.

  230. 230
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @mbss:

    You’re probably burning one right now.

  231. 231

    @E.D. Kain: OK, this comment was jackassery. You really are embracing the victim mentality here. Very few people were asking you to say, “Hey, that site rawks! They are way cool.” Speaking for myself, what bothered me about the comment (not hurt my feelings) is that you were asked to blog here. There have been people supporting you from the beginning. And, when someone over there talks about how shitty this site is, that’s not talking about ideas. They were trashing this site–not the ideas–and you agreed implicitly by making your statement. If you agree with that statement, then why are you blogging here? If you don’t, then you could have stated something like what I said in your other thread.

    Again, you seem to be ignoring all the comments supporting you and honing in on the ones that don’t in order to feel like you’re being picked on. You aren’t. And, if you don’t want to blog here, don’t. That’s perfectly valid.

  232. 232
    mbss says:

    @fasteddie9318:

    and they eat dogs in china.

    it’s a cultural thing. i’m cosmopolitan.

    meow SHUT UP. SHUT UP. GET BACK IN THE POT.

  233. 233
    Capn America says:

    Now that we’re talking BJ history, what ever happened to Maimonides? And what’s the Michael D. story, I’ve been reading for at least two years now but never heard of this dude.

  234. 234
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    You people who are trying to bring attention to the horror of kitten burning should burn in hell for your ignorance of the real horror out there: skullfucking a kitten.

    Shame on you! The helicopters are weeping.

  235. 235
    mbss says:

    give me a break, guys. E.D. isn’t playing the victim anymore than palin or israel are.

  236. 236
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    What “ideas” were being tossed around in that thread, exactly? I saw the idea that the commentors here are a mass of unenlightened idiots. I saw the idea that you, Bodhisattva Kain, were appointing yourself as our intellectual guide out of the morass. That was about it.

    Seriously, you don’t get how that’s even a teensy bit offensive to the folks here?

  237. 237
    sam says:

    John is not the NYT circa 2008 looking to hire Mr. Kristol, and ED is not Jonah.

    But to the main point, if I’m the DD and you give me the keys to your ride, then I’m gonna have some fun.

    http://www.motorator.com/videos/307

  238. 238
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    Damn, I always miss the fun stuff. Black tie gala tonight. For the kids, of course.

    Anyway, I think all of the frontpagers suck, most especially John Cole if that is his real name.

    I read Balloon Juice for the comment snark. Everyone who isn’t contributing to my personal amusement can go to hell. I’m glad we have agreement on that.

    And fuck you John Cole.

    Asshole.

  239. 239
    Church Lady says:

    @Dee Loralei: I wish we had a “like” button to press.

  240. 240
    IronyAbounds says:

    @E.D. Kain: Christ, you’re really a dick after all. Cole asks you to be a front pager here, you agree, and yet you don’t think it is worth defending when someone says it’s full of wackos. If you think so little of the people who visit this website, and by your comments there and here it is abundantly clear that that is the case, why the hell do you even bother? You adopt an attitude about this site that is condescending at best and contemptuous at worst, and yet you wonder why people might be a tad pissed. It’s not that I think you should have sung BJ’s praises, but while this may just a blog, is it really asking too much for you to do a bit better than simply copping a smug I’m smarter than those idiots at BJ attitude?

  241. 241
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    I will defend ‘this site’ when this site becomes more important than the ideas being discussed. Or how about when all of you defend me? Yeah, that’s not going to happen and I don’t expect it to.

    There is no way you actually wrote this after all of this bullshit posted on this site today. I don’t know how you can actually write that this site hasn’t defended you in a fucking thread featuring numerous posts defending you. For crying out loud, look how much of an outpouring of support you got in your “Woe Is Me” post earlier.

    Do you think no one reads the comments here? Do you think people don’t follow the daily discussions here? Do you actually possess so little respect for the commentariat here, Mr. In House Critic?

    You really have put on quite the pathetic display in your short tenure here. No time for the “combox” here in the middle of the day, but you can certainly find the time and ability to post comments all over the rest of the Internet, can’t you? You can saddle up on your high horse and declare yourself the in-house critic of a blog you hardly interact with, and whose readership you show open disdain towards.

    Everything you believe in aside, you are a straight up clown, E.D. Why should any reader of this blog give a shit about whether you stay or go when you are entirely ambivalent to your own presence here?

  242. 242
    mbss says:

    feed him to tunch.

  243. 243

    @srv:

    Wait John, does that mean you didn’t like Tom in Texas?

    Lol I was kinda wondering the same thing. I don’t miss the front page. I’d rather be one of the monkeys than a zookeeper.

  244. 244
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Tom in Texas: Wow.. is that really Tom in Texas?

  245. 245
    taylormattd says:

    @E.D. Kain: oh boo fucking hoo.

    Jesus christ, the passive-aggressive front page post wasn’t enough?

    You had to come in for round two to try and get people to beg you to stay?

    For fuck’s sake, admit your comment at the other place was dickish and move on.

  246. 246

    @Just Some Fuckhead:

    I never left. Just went by a different name for a while and comment a lot less these days. Real life taking over. No school tomorrow though, so it’s a late nighter. I dropped the name around when Michael D. quite posting. I definitely felt where he was coming from and just wanted to be anonymous. But fuck it srv gave me a shoutout so I figured I’d log in again.

  247. 247
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Tom in Texas: Well how bout that. I asked John a couple times what happened to you and he said he didn’t know. But I didn’t believe him and suspected he’d secretly had you murdered.

  248. 248
    Tom in Texas says:

    Damn TWO people care! I’m fainting dead away now.

    John had nothing to do with it. I just bit off more than I should have. I was doing a lot of volunteer work in 2008 and just didn’t have the time to post any more. John and Tim were always gracious and professional, and I should have been decent enough to give them a personal email. Wasn’t feeling the GBCW post.

    I do take credit (deserved or not) for one thing here though — I remember bugging John to add snarky tags years ago. I doubt he actually did it on my recommendation, but I’ll go on living the delusion. Makes me sleep easier.

  249. 249
    newhavenguy says:

    Nice to see the circular firing squad dynamic here, too. Not a fan of ED’s myself, but to be fair it’s much higher quality than, say, the toxic shit the business and economics editor (sic) at The Atlantic writes (sic).

    Good to have different viewpoints in any conversation— and isn’t that what a blog is, ultimately? Helps to keep oneself honest, to avoid groupthink, that deadly echo chamber. You don’t know the half of it— that dynamic can turn a waiter into a mass murderer. Pol Pot could have told you all about it.

    The glibertarian crap (FUCK YOU JACK I GOT MINE) was never my cup of tea, and I am (sorry, I’m a dick/critic) unimpressed with ED’s content. Whatevs, I’ma drink an old school 4 Loko (Fin Du Monde with 4x espresso on the side) and read ABL or DougJ instead.

    Really, what is the fuss all about? A fine blog, and there’s nothing unhealthy about violent disagreement so long as it’s kept civil and respectful. (And oh yes, I know that’s hard sometimes. But we’re trying to have a civilization here, aren’t we?)

    Let’s have a vote on voting people off the island. I vote “no”.

  250. 250
    Tom in Texas says:

    Actually two things –I also consider myself responsible for the Tito’s fetish round here. Only good post I ever wrote.

  251. 251
    matoko_chan says:

    merde.
    and here i made a special effort to come by an slang the cruel bottle of reality up against suzanne and asmn thick haids, and i have to defend E.D. insteaad.

    Coles House, Coles Rules.
    Cole thinks E.D. is a good guy and has valuable shit to say.
    if you disagree, dont read him.
    that votin stuff was bullshytt tho.
    Lets admit that was E.D. ‘s crude attempt at a pity party that the intellectually challenged among you fell for.
    it seems to me that Cole, Epic President Lincoln, and my beloved Magical Unity Pony have this sort of relly cool vibe going on.

    If you would win a man to your cause, first convince him that you are his sincere friend. Therein is a drop of honey which catches his heart, which, say what he will, is the highroad to his reason.

    now i dont roll that way, but you have to respect it.
    E.D. has made significant progress from we first met.

  252. 252
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @matoko_chan: My gawd, you’re boring.

  253. 253
    matoko_chan says:

    @Comrade Kevin: then dont read me.
    many dont.
    dont read E.D. if you dont like him either.

    but dont pull stuff out of your fat ass and pretend i said it like suzanne and asgmn do.

  254. 254
    mbss says:

    i want some tito’s vodka now.

  255. 255
    Pete says:

    This post is why this site is the first thing I read on the interwebosphere each morning.

    And also why I try and avoid the comments section once it goes over about 40.

    If we’re using Island metaphors, I’ll go with Lost and state that the island lets you know when it’s done with you. And commenters ain’t the island.

  256. 256
    danimal says:

    I’ve figured it out. ED Kain is this blog’s Amy Sullivan. She’s with Time now, and I never read Time, but when she was on WashingtonMonthly.com, every post she made drew a raving, angry mob. Pitchforks at the ready!

    Like ED, her writing wasn’t very far from the mainstream liberal POV, but she was identified as an outsider, mostly for the label (she was the religious lefty, ED’s the libertarian).

    Anyway, I hate the ‘epistemic closure’ of the right; I have no desire to shut down exposure to a wide variety of viewpoints from the left (or center).

    And I oppose kitten burning and insomnia, though I may be on the wrong side of both tonight.

  257. 257
    wengler says:

    I love disagreeing with ED Kain’s posts.

    And I’d like it even more if he stuck around and defended himself rather than retreating back into the glibertarian blogzone.

  258. 258
    c u n d gulag says:

    Good on you, John!
    I don’t always agree with E.D., but I like his writing style, and his opinions are well thought out.
    If he upsets the fee-fee’s of some of the commenters here, get over it. He presents his view, and I like reading it, though it may differ from mine.
    I guess intolerance isn’t just a conservative trait, now is it?

  259. 259
    SRW1 says:

    Damn it, you drive to town for a movie and you miss one of dad’s famous rants.

    By the way dad, the car’s in the garage and the keys to it are at their usual place in the cupboard. Not a single scratch on the car.

  260. 260
    GuavaEmpanadas says:

    Please build individual RSS feeds for each FPP (this should be trivial).

    The volume of posting has risen considerably around here and I can’t afford the time to read everything.

    No smack talk about anyone in particular. Just a request for an additional tool from a long time reader.

    Thank you.

  261. 261
    Fogeyman says:

    Wait…a blog owner who believes in freedom of speech?

    Interesting concept.

    But it’s why I read this blog when I’ve stopped reading others.

  262. 262
    SRW1 says:

    @jl:

    this is a major code red instance of insufferable blog disrespect

    Don’t know whether our blog overlord is in any mood to accept nominations at this juncture (maybe after he has sobered up), but I would recommend this as a new tag line for occasions such as the one we seem to have at hand here. It would also come in handy for interblog wars.

  263. 263
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @wengler:

    And I’d like it even more if he stuck around and defended himself rather than retreating back into the glibertarian blogzone.

    Yeah, see, this is basically my problem and I suspect that’s true of most of the people complaining about this whole ombudsman nonsense. The Pattern seems to be:

    1. ED makes post here
    2. Commentors pick apart ED’s post, many substantively though some not
    3. ED never engages the comments directly, but may make a follow up post in which he indirectly addresses them in aggregate
    4. Follow up post is then picked apart, again with a lot of substantive and legitimate criticism amidst the pure snark
    5. ED retreats to one of his fellow traveler sites, where somebody invariably comments something to the effect that this blog is full of inbred morans
    6. ED’s response to that comment is a sort of virtual slow nodding of the head, along with a variation on, “Yeah, I know, that place is full of tools. I don’t know why I post there. I’m trying to edumacate those rubes but they just don’t get it.”

    It’s tiresome, is all.

  264. 264
    El Tiburon says:

    @fasteddie9318:
    What fast Eddie just said.

    I just don’t find ED particularly illuminating or engaging. Trotting out tired old conserva-libertarian tropes is so tireed. Those arguments are no longer worth having.

    I think what connects most of us here is the notion that conservate ideology is a complete failure, thusly if you insist on trying to bring that stale bread around here, you will get shat upon in mass volumes.

  265. 265
    Quiddity says:

    ED hardly strikes me as way out there. Not that it matters given John’s remarks, but I’m surprised there is such an uproar, especially given some of what goes on in the comment threads.

  266. 266
    AnnaN says:

    At El Tiburon #265

    Who cares if ED gets tiring. Ignore it. Why do so many people have to shit upon another person simply for expressing either a tired opinion, or one that’s not really backed up by facts? Too many people think that a disagreement on teh internets is carte blanche to be an asshole of gigantic proportions. So much so that they would NEVER dare to speak to someone else face to face in such a manner. And really, if people would be so foul in real life to someone for the god awful sin of not agreeing, then they need meds and some serious cognitive behavioral therapy. All the rest who behave in such a manner and haven’t been diagnosed with a personality disorder should be ashamed.

    ED is not in charge of policy, his thoughts and opinions aren’t fucking this country over. Save the vitriol, the irritation and time it takes to dig the cotton from the crack and use it in a more productive manner. Going through life being terminally cranky over a blogger is ridiculous. Don’t most of us have pets? When viciousness threatens, breathe deep and exhale into the soft, warm, fuzzy belly of whatever companion happens to be near. Except for John. Tunch might steal his face all Hannibal-like.

  267. 267
    eemom says:

    this is STILL going on?

  268. 268
    El Tiburon says:

    @AnnaN:
    Look, I am not saying stupid and juvenile attacks are the way to go (see all the hamsher hater brats around here.). When I said ‘shat upon’ I meant he was going to hear in loud and colorful language why he is wrong.

    I generally ignore those commenters who only spew hateful comments in favor of those with substantial content. And those who can do it with a healthy dose of snark are particularly entertaining.

    But heat makes a blog so much fun is that you get to the real person – not the censored and neutered comments when face to face.

  269. 269
    debit says:

    @AnnaN: Well, the whole point of posting to a blog, one assumes, is to have a conversation.

    Point one: Conversations die when everyone agrees.
    Point two: ED doesn’t participate in the conversation, he pontificates and then leaves.

    I agree that we can (and I include myself in this) be rude at times. But most of the regulars don’t froth and rage in ED’s posts. They aren’t assholes, unless “asshole” means “anyone who doesn’t agree with me.”

    @ thread

    On the other hand, ED was an asshole. He says he doesn’t have time to comment here, but he has plenty of time to comment elsewhere. I think what he said was incredibly rude to Cole, actually. But Cole doesn’t care, and that’s cool with me. I don’t care if ED stays or leaves because I don’t read his posts; this is mostly because I don’t care about his opinion but also because I think he’s a terribly dull writer.

    It’s pretty clear ED doesn’t think we can teach him anything. He’s not here to have a conversation, he’s here to be our “in house critic.” I wish him luck with that.

  270. 270
    AnnaN says:

    @debit

    I did not say anywhere that if you don’t agree, don’t post. I cannot make it more plain that I was addressing the nastiness, not the opinion.

  271. 271
    Liberty60 says:

    probably waay too late for this thread, but if anyone feels so threatened by Ed that they ask him to leave, I would have to wonder how thin their skin really is.

    If a mildly disagreeable post is all it takes to send one into Defcon 5, I wonder how anyone expects to win the national argument with the serious batshit teahadists.

    Maybe John should invite Erick Son of Erick or Ace to guest blog for a week to let everyone see what we are really up against.

  272. 272
    Michael D. says:

    I remember getting a lecture here from a bunch of white people and a couple black people about that fact that I was probably racist – even though I study African American history passionately and I am basically married to an Chinese-Indonesian guy. When I pointed all this out, the lecture I was getting slightly changed into how I was probably still racist and was racist to my partner in ways that probably weren’t apparent to me. (Like, you know, I probably study all this stuff and date an Indonesian to prove I’m not racist – or whatever the logic of those commenters was.) Apparently, as a white guy, I can’t possibly understand what it’s like for a black person or other person of color (and, largely, this is true – but it doesn’t make you a racist.)

    If it works that way for “white vs. people of color” then you’ll agree that it works for “straight vs. gay people” right?

    All of the above brings me to this:

    Back when the news came out that 30% of gay people voted Republican, I was kinda angry – at those gay people. But I could actually understand the reasons they did what they did. It was flawed reasoning, for sure, but it was quite understandable.

    And seeing what you were writing here and how you were handling it, I was angry at a lot of the people here as well, for basically calling the gays idiots for doing what they did. The reason is because, unless you’re gay, you cannot possibly understand the experience of being discriminated against the way we are (see above). And for a bunch of straight folks to start lecturing gay people about what they should and shouldn’t do and what was best for them was infuriating – even if I agreed with what you were saying. It was the equivalent of telling black people, “Just vote Democratic and everything will be fine…. eventually. Trust me, we know what’s best for you.” It’s condescending.

    All that is to say that I had a long thought out post on the subject that I contemplated posting here. I decided not to because:

    1. I had said goodbye here and didn’t really feel like I was entitled to just come back
    2. More importantly, I knew if I posted it, the comments section would have been full of bullshit from the usual suspects about how I was a self-hating gay person or some such nonsense. Or it would have been just comments about me and what an idiot I must be personally. Either that, or someone would have found something completely irrelevant to focus on and start screaming about that.

    In other words, it would have been completely pointless to put my post here. A lot of you are great people and I love reading through what you have to say. There is a very vocal minority of you here though who like to read your own shit and you’re probably the people who others describe as “likes the sound of his/her own voice.” That minority is the group that comes out of the woodwork when anyone posts anything you even remotely disagree with. It’s clear that you are smart. You just don’t channel it very productively. You shout people down here – which is ironic, since this is what you complain that people on the Right are like. You are exactly the same – just less evil. And it’s only gotten this way recently. In the past couple years. It was fun to read this blog at one point. It still is on occasion. But these days, I can largely predict what’s going to be said about any given post, depending on who wrote it. It’s going to be the same people shouting the same stuff at the same people. Seriously, ask yourselves why E.D. Kain would ever want to read the comments section.

    And since we know we won’t be bounced for criticizing the owner, I’d just like to say that John, you too have gotten to be over the top on occasion. There is a lot of name-calling here that you used to never do. You could alway argue a point as good or better than anyone without resorting to juvenile language. You used to. All the time.

    When I was a kid, I used to be the class clown. And I used to be an asshole – to everyone. My 9th grade English teacher took me aside one day and said “How can someone so smart be so stupid?” That lecture from him changed the way I think about things. I don’t dismiss people because they disagree with me.

    …like that very vocal minority here does. Clearly smart people acting stupid…being complete assholes to anyone who disagrees with them.

    Having a differing opinion and
    Posting it here and
    Subjecting yourself to the abuse of the comments section and
    Continuing to post here

    …is the blogospheric equivalent of battered wife syndrome. It’s certainly why I don’t post here anymore and why I rarely comment on anything more than gay issues.

    Oh, and I don’t have access to post here anymore – which is another reason I didn’t write that post! :-)

  273. 273
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Liberty60:

    Maybe John should invite Erick Son of Erick or Ace to guest blog for a week to let everyone see what we are really up against.

    They’d never do it (which is a point for ED, also too), but I frankly would love it if he did this.

  274. 274
    The Ombudsman says:

    Having a differing opinion and
    Posting it here and
    Subjecting yourself to the abuse of the comments section and
    Continuing to post here
    …is the blogospheric equivalent of battered wife syndrome.

    The beatings will continue until moral improves, Michael.

    Also, lighten up.

  275. 275
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @debit:

    It’s pretty clear ED doesn’t think we can teach him anything. He’s not here to have a conversation, he’s here to be our “in house critic.”

    I think this is about right. There’s no back-and-forth about ED’s posts because ED just lectures to us and then lets us react to it amongst ourselves. I would have trouble sitting through a university course taught that way by an expert in his or her field (although certainly I did sit through enough of them back in the day), so why would I want to read and engage with something like that on the internet written by someone who is an expert in, well, nothing?

    None of this is to say that he should bounce out of here, it’s just my opinion.

  276. 276
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Michael D.:

    Wow, I don’t know you and I wasn’t reading this place when you got run off, but that was some massive pity party stuff. If that’s how you used to post on the FP, I can see why people didn’t care for it.

  277. 277
    Just Some Fuckhead says:

    @Michael D.:

    Oh, and I don’t have access to post here anymore – which is another reason I didn’t write that post!

    Well, why the fuck is John saying, “And I wish Michael D. was still posting here..” ?

    You guys need to open up the lines of communication and do what both of you clearly want.

  278. 278
    licensed to kill time says:

    Damn, just got here. I miss all the good fights!

    My two cents? John’s blog, his call, glad he doesn’t hang over front-pagers’ shoulders clutching his pearls, just skip over posts you don’t like and commenters too, for that matter.

    I know, so profound.

  279. 279
    Michael D. says:

    @fasteddie9318: See? That took 16 minutes. :-)

    No, these were not what my posts were like. This is just why I don’t post here anymore. It’s not about having a thick skin. It’s about having an intelligent conversation with people who don’t know what that means. Trust me, as a gay kid growing up in a town of 2,000 people, I have a pretty thick skin.

  280. 280
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @Michael D.:

    See? That took 16 minutes. :-)

    16 minutes for what? For somebody to react badly to the comparison of a blogger who gets some negative comments on a blog post to a battered spouse?

  281. 281
    BombIranForChrist says:

    Man, so sorry I didn’t interrupt my drinking last night to further respond, as if anyone cares what I say.

    My points:

    1. I am glad John includes differing views. It’s John’s sandbox, and he can have whoever he wants. He can welcome me here or ban me, and it’s all his call, and I’m cool with it. And he loves pets, which absolves him of any and all future sins.

    2. ED’s biggest crime isn’t that he’s a dick, it’s that he’s a mediocrity. I get the same feeling reading him that I get reading articles at Slate … I see a whole bunch of words, and I read them, but by the time I get to the end, I desperately want that part of my life back. I learn nothing from him. There are actually, out there in the world, conservatives and libertarians who valiantly tackle difficult issues with rigor and authority. ED is not one of them.

    3. I drank too much last night. And Dragon Age is too chatty for me to enjoy.

  282. 282
    different church-lady says:

    I could use a cocktail. Would anyone else like a cocktail?

  283. 283
    D-Chance. says:

    Well, the Decider has spoken! Thread closed.

  284. 284

    WHAT’D I MISS?!?!?!

    (oh yay, i get to stay. y’alls is scary. dang.)

  285. 285
    Sirkowski says:

    NEEDS MORE FAT TUNCH

  286. 286
    Christin says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    E.D. Kain
    John – thanks for this and all – I don’t mean to start drama AT ALL. If I had thought my little comment over at Balko’s would hurt so many feelings I sure wouldn’t have said it.

    LOL! Oh the drama.

    And right down to the non apology apology.
    I’m sorry YOU took offense to my comment.
    The internets so proved men can’t claim they don’t do drama anymore, that’s for sure.

  287. 287
    Jamey says:

    If you don’t ban posters, then why can I not post from my work IP, but can from home?

    I recall once saying something objectionable from the office (I think it was about Tunch’s mismatched tail… that kind of day) and since then I haven’t been able to weigh in.

    FWIW, I think all the posters here are top-notch. They’re why I put coins in the slot, make Amazon purchases through the blogads here, contribute to ActBlue, and come back several times daily. If you had a decoder ring, I’d probably send in Tunch-Os box-tops to get it…

    Good on you, John. My day would be less enjoyable without this blog.

  288. 288
    parsimon says:

    @Michael D.:

    Coming in way late here, but Michael D., thanks for posting that.

    I wasn’t around when you were a front-pager, but I recognize the kind of dynamic you’re describing, and far from your engaging in a pity party, it’s a breath of fresh air to hear someone give voice to it.

  289. 289
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    John, why do you start all your best threads on a weekend when I am watching football to the exclusion of every other activity except urination? Fuck you, you Stalinist, Kenyan, bourgeois retard.

    In Christ’s love.

  290. 290
    Susan Ross says:

    I personally think ED doesn’t add much to the place, but then I really and truly believe conservatism/libertarianism is an enormous character flaw. Yes, it’s personal, sorry. To believe in such rot when it has one such unspeakable harm over the past 30 years tells me all I need to know about anyone who embraces it.

    But it’s John’s blog, and I respect his right to run it as he pleases. I simply don’t bother reading ED’s garbage, but then I wouldn’t bother voting him off either.

  291. 291
    Jaim says:

    ED simply isn’t that bright or insightful.

    But as mentioned, it’s your blog.

  292. 292
    Michael D. says:

    @Jaim:

    ED simply isn’t that bright or insightful.

    An example of one of those asshole comments I was talking about.

  293. 293
    Jamey: Bike Commuter of the Gods says:

    When I was a kid, I used to be the class clown. And I used to be an asshole – to everyone. My 9th grade English teacher took me aside one day and said “How can someone so smart be so stupid?” That lecture from him changed the way I think about things. I don’t dismiss people because they disagree with me.

    Heh. “Used to.”

  294. 294
    parsimon says:

    Eh. Michael D. is right about the asshole comments in any case. High-traffic, heavy-comment blogs go through these kinds of fights now and then, and sometimes some commenters leave. I tend to think that change is not bad.

Comments are closed.