Early Evening Open Thread

Reason #2,657,893 why people think libertarians are arseholes: Would-be hipsters who never got over being the smartest little fella in the high-school debating club awarding themselves hall monitor sashes. And not having the balls to show off their self-invented “title” in front of the people they claim to be… ombudsmanning.

Now I’m going to go read the comments to DougJ’s post, and anyone who’s already congratulated Kain for his Extremely Thougtful Self-Aggrandizement That Has Never Been Made With Such Care Before… is welcome to bring it over here.

Maybe I should add a “This Is Why We Can’t Have Nice Things” category…






184 replies
  1. 1
    Zandar says:

    And me, all out of popcorn.

  2. 2
    Corner Stone says:

    I just posted this in the MSNBC thread but I feel so strongly about it it’s worth reposting here:

    Call me a fanboi if you must, but I wake up every day thanking God we have Alan Simpson to guide us during these perilous times.
    May He continue to bless us with His wisdom.

  3. 3
    Josh James says:

    Goodness, that’s going to leave a mark.

  4. 4

    I’ve heard of inter-blog wars, but I don’t think I’ve ever witnessed an intra-blog one. ::offers Zandar popcorn::

  5. 5
    Zandar says:

    So, so so I opened up this big jar and it said “Ombudsman” on it and it slipped and I um…made a mess all over the blog with the Ombudsman and I’m sorry.

    Can we go to Dairy Queen now?

  6. 6
    General Stuck says:

    I would prefer we simply ignore libertarians, as no more consequential than teenage acne, which also usually clears up with adulthood.

    ED Kain is a curious person for being so young. That is a plus in my book, but not worth the energy to mock at this stage of his journey. Young and dumb parlor games belong on Facebook, or My Space.

  7. 7
    Wiesman says:

    Well, hell. I was going to watch football all weekend but now I think I’ll just keep refreshing BJ to see if anyone draws blood.

  8. 8
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    Ah hell, just give ED Kain a 2-day suspension for making contributions to another political blog without getting permission from the higher-ups first, and call it a day.

  9. 9
    Mojotron says:

    I’m not sure we need an omsbudman (“somebody pour me a Bud!”), but I sure do miss the business and economics editor.

  10. 10

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Oh god, I just had to stop myself from busting out laughing at work. I think my left eyeball popped.

  11. 11
    lamh32 says:

    Hey, did anyone else get the recorded message from President Obama that was sent to OfA members? I did, I was at work, so I actually have it recorded on my voicemail!!!

    I’m gonna try to save it if I can figure out how to save it from my Iphone!

    Doesn’t anyone know how I can get the recorded voice mail off my phone and save it somewhere else?

  12. 12
    morzer says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    I do look forward to ED Kain’s Special Comment as well as his Worst Person In The World tonight.

  13. 13
    BR says:

    @General Stuck:

    Bottom line for me is that I don’t learn anything from ED’s posts, they don’t make me laugh, and they don’t contain pictures of cats. And they usually say in 500 words what could be said in -0- 5.

  14. 14
    MikeJ says:

    I’m saddened by the way they’ve feminized ombudding.

  15. 15
    John Cole says:

    Ok. I’m not sure what he said that was so offensive. I’m not sure what he said that was offensive at all, actually.

  16. 16
    stormhit says:

    I’m now left wondering if it’s scientifically possible to be more of a passive aggressive asshole.

    In the future you should consider sticking to your usual role of contributing nothing to the blog but linking to every single thing Tom Scocca writes.

  17. 17
    Trentrunner says:

    Well, maybe it’s not “offensive,” but howsabout condescending, patronizing, and smug for $400, Alex?

    Sorry, but what a douche.

  18. 18

    I would like to take this time of my Friday evening to add my fawning comment.

  19. 19
    BR says:

    @John Cole:

    Not offensive, just uninteresting and predictable. Like most of his posts… (Not saying that I can write more interesting posts, but I’m not in a position to write any…)

  20. 20
    demkat620 says:

    So wait, he appointed himself ombudsman of this blog?

    Why?

  21. 21
    morzer says:

    @John Cole:

    It was certainly not the most artful or humble way of speaking, but I suspect he wasn’t thinking of himself as ombudsman of the whole shitpile, more someone who was an ombudsman towards those who read his contributions, as in referee of one game, not the whole league.

    That said, he is going to get and deserve a few lumps for talking about himself in such grandiose and imprecise terms.

  22. 22
    andrewtna says:

    I don’t think what E.D. said was offensive or smart, but Anne Laurie’s post is both. So we have a winner.

    Also, Fight! Fight!

  23. 23
    Alex S. says:

    2 days ago, I had something of a revelation. Our basic economic models consist of a cartesian coordinate system, demand curves, supply curves, a meeting point that determines the price of a good and areas that represent things like consumer surplus, producer surplus, expenditures, etc…
    Anyway, I realized that the consumer surplus of an efficient market gets bigger the more you are willing to pay for a certain good. In other words, our model of the efficient market ensures that the already rich have the most benefit from an efficient market while the poor are not able to afford anything. Maybe it’s already common knowledge, but I thought that this is the best justification of wealth distribution I know.

  24. 24
    morzer says:

    @stormhit:

    Two words: Eric Cantor.

  25. 25

    @John Cole: I think it’s too hilariously out of touch to be offensive. It’s a fucking blog. We don’t need anyone to take our criticisms to the management and advocate on our behalf — that’s what bitching in the comments is for. And if we did, no offense, but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t be ED.

  26. 26

    @General Stuck:

    I would agree. I find libertarian theology to be as offensive and juvenile as the next guy, but sometimes I think we dignify these jokers too much by even engaging with their nonsense enough to mock it.

  27. 27
    Cycloptichorn says:

    @John Cole:

    Really? I saw that he updated that thread with another comment:

    “So ‘ombudsman’ is not the word I was looking for. I’d say ‘in-house critic’ is more like it.”

    But, what gives the dude the qualifications to be a critic of anything? From what I can tell he comes on every now and then to spout what is very accurately described as Glibertarian bullshit, stuff that sounded great when he was sitting around with his buddies complaining about the rest of us parasites, but has no relation to the real world whatsoever.

    Was this gig pitched to him, as an ‘in-house critic?’ I doubt it. I think the first sentence of this post really nails it.

  28. 28
    Jewish Steel says:

    I take issue with calling ED a hipster. If his taste in music (soft-core hippie trustafarian twaddle) is any indication (it is) then what we have here is something more broheim than hipster.

    Let’s get our taxonomy straight, people.

  29. 29
    freelancer says:

    @General Stuck:

    It could also be median age of readers. I mean, I’m only 28 (ie, in Kain’s age range), but I’ve definitely learned to try to keep my mouth shut when I don’t know WTF I’m talking about. I’ve learned that this is generally rare amongst more people, and increases in frequency as the age of the person speaking gets younger and younger. And generally the commentariat here is, for the most part, older, more well-informed, and contains more wisdom than most of the rest of the political web. Whether over here or on agitator, the “I’m the ombudsman” for someone else’s site, is not a little obnoxious.

    I mean, I could just as easily say that I’m the resident snark master of BJ, whether here or elsewhere, but there are far funnier people here than myself, and I’d feel like a douche just for making the claim. I like ED, cause I feel that beneath the “Reason” libertarian framing, there’s an inner “radical centrist” (Not the friedman kind) just under the surface, and he’ll get there eventually. He’s one of us, but we should still smack him around for saying stoopid, douchy shit.

  30. 30
    J sub D says:

    Two of the last four Democrats to chair the House Ways and Means Committee have been tax cheats. Three out of the last six have been criminals.

    I’m being charitable by including the acting chairman, Sander Levin.

    You’re right, we libertarians are assholes.

  31. 31
    Quicksand says:

    This thread fails to deliver.

  32. 32
    ErinSiobhan says:

    If you define ombudsman as someone who attempts to mediate between aggrieved parties, the description may be accurate. I’m just not sure he’s been particularly successful at it (actually, judging by reaction, I’m willing to go out on a limb and say his ombudsmanning is pretty much not working).

  33. 33
    John Cole says:

    I just think the characterizations of Erik’s writing are inaccurate. Yes, there are times when he breaks into free market tongue kissing, but christ- I do the same sort of shit, and usually in a more over the top manner.

    IF you would go through and actually look at his whole body of work, he’s contributed a lot to the site here, and I like arguing with him from time to time.

    That having been said, I really wish he would start coming into the comments and throwing elbows at some of you all. That seems to be the real complaint- he writes posts and then never addresses you all in the comments.

    Regardless, I think everyone on the roster here has something really positive to offer the website. If I didn’t, I would say so.

  34. 34
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Jewish Steel: But does he like the latest Gorillaz album? That’ll be telling!

  35. 35
    morzer says:

    @J sub D:

    Well, all the libertarians I’ve met on here have been pouting little bitches who didn’t give a fart for anyone else, and whose values came down to “More money for me!”

  36. 36
    Chyron HR says:

    @J sub D:

    Oh, no, those weren’t real Democrats. Any Democrat that did something bad retroactively stops being a Democrat and becomes something else entirely, so there.

  37. 37
    Trentrunner says:

    Well, E.D. might be a worthwhile contributor if he had

    1) an editor
    2) a vagina
    3) a cat

  38. 38
    MikeJ says:

    @John Cole:

    I do the same sort of shit, and usually in a more over the top manner.

    And we call you an asshole, and you come into the comments and say we’re full of shit, and occasionally you or we change our minds.

  39. 39
    BR says:

    This post made me ask myself: are there any libertarians who are interesting to listen to / read on any subject, even if they’re wrong? (That is, do they make interesting arguments.)

    Only two come to mind: Ron Paul and Stuart Brand. (Brand wasn’t much of a libertarian back in the day, but he’s become much more of one.)

  40. 40
    schrodinger's cat says:

    Can someone explain to me what is going on? I have no idea what everyone is talking about.

  41. 41

    @Quicksand: I would suggest an addendum to your comment: *so far.

    It is early yet, and I have hope for this thread. Not from my own comments, which are of the substandard variety, but from the others who comment here. Given time, they always deliver. Not unlike the USPS.

  42. 42
    freelancer says:

    @John Cole:

    There you go again, thinking you’re this site’s “Ombudsman” or moderator, or moral center. Run along now, Jiminy Cricket, before you go and get yourself tackled.

    Oh wait…

  43. 43
    stuckinred says:

    @BR: This post made me ask myself if Illinois is going to be able to hang on and beat the Terps after suffering an OT loss to Texas last night?

  44. 44
    Anne Laurie says:

    @John Cole:
    __

    I’m not sure what he said that was offensive at all, actually.

    (A) Badges? We don’t need no stinkin’ badges!

    (B) People who think it’s ballsy to make up their own self-important titles should at least have the courtesy to announce their new title to their purported targets, before strutting around in front of a happy-to-be-dazzled audience elsewhere.

    It’s inconsiderate of Kain to require DougJ to bring the rest of us news of Kain’s new “status” here. I loathe inconsiderate people — they should all DIAF.

  45. 45
  46. 46
    morzer says:

    @John Cole:

    He does respond sometimes, and generally in a more civil way than many of his critics. Also too, he admitted to me that his mohawk is now pink with orange streaks, so he’s clearly sound on the big issues.

    Seriously, ED Kain is nowhere near a glibertarian. He is willing to rethink when challenged, he doesn’t have the standard glibertarian default to “I will now ban you to preserve my free speech”, and I’ve seen him admit that he got things wrong upon reflection.

    I don’t know whether Anne Laurie was looking for a fight, or just being snarky in a rather unpleasant and ineffective way, but her post didn’t help to shed much light on matters, and would probably not make ED Kain feel particularly welcome or respected as a fellow poster. It would be a shame if he felt driven out because of saying something carelessly and in the hurry which is typical of the internet.

  47. 47
    John O says:

    @stuckinred:

    A crushing loss.

    Hilarious post, AL. Much ado about nothing, to my way of thinking, though I DO wish ED would engage more. Once in a while he says something I can get behind.

  48. 48
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    Why is there an ad on my monitor imploring me to sign a petition telling the GOP to get a backbone (“We elected you . . . Now stand up for us!”)?

    ETA: I’ve barely skimmed the comments, but I must say I’m quite taken aback at all the hate being directed at E.D. I often don’t agree with him, but I rarely find him shallow, glib, or superficial. YMMV, and clearly it does.

  49. 49
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    Would it be considered a violation of libertarian principles to be forced to declare one’s Ratio of Ben Harper to Deerhoof albums? On, say, a 1040? Or maybe a separate schedule?

  50. 50
    rageahol says:

    Mr. Cole, while you’re here, and since i know you’re doing a site update…

    PLEASE PUT THE POSTER’S NAME IN THE RSS FEED TITLE (or at least a byline as the first line of the syndicated article)

    (so that i dont have to read a paragraph of randroid nonsense before realizing the post is by mr. kain, and can just flat-out ignore it)

  51. 51
    J. says:

    For those of you real Americans who didn’t catch the Fox News crew dissing Sarah Palin’s new show.

  52. 52
    MikeJ says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: Because somebody paid for it? I don’t know If Cole gets paid by the impression or the click, so I always try to click the rightwing ads. Drive up their costs, more tuna for Tunch.

  53. 53
    Mike Kay (Hippie Hunter) says:

    I say we primary ED Kain with Ned Lamont Halter!

  54. 54
    Eric U. says:

    the role of ombudsman has become so discredited by the Washington Post and the NYT that I wouldn’t want the title anyway. And I thought that DougJ was the in-house critic.

  55. 55
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @morzer:

    Oh noez, the comity! Our precious comity!

  56. 56
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Eric U.: Besides DougJ is funny, unlike the Extremely Dull Kain.

  57. 57
    Lolis says:

    I can guarantee Kain was not the smartest dude in his high school/college. He only thought he was.

  58. 58
    J sub D says:

    @morzer:

    Well, all the libertarians I’ve met on here have been pouting little bitches who didn’t give a fart for anyone else, and whose values came down to “More money for me!”

    Yep. We wear top hats and monocles. We twist our handlebar mustaches while telling our underpaid butler to throw another orphan on the fire.

  59. 59
    JoshA says:

    Kain’s OK. I disagree with what he writes, but its actually nice to be able to disagree with someone without thinking they inhabit another planet.

    I don’t understand why what he wrote makes him a “would-be hipster who never got over being the smartest little fella in the high-school debating club.”

  60. 60
    freelancer says:

    @rageahol:

    More often than not, I’ve gotten pretty good at identifying posters in my RSS feed by, if not the title alone, than by the first couple lines of the post. ED, JC, DougJ, Tim F, AL, and ABL all have their own unique writing styles. And dismissing all of Kain’s posts outright, without trying to at least identify with where he’s writing from, that strikes me as a form of epistemic closure. Morzer, above, is correct:

    He does respond sometimes, and generally in a more civil way than many of his critics. Also too, he admitted to me that his mohawk is now pink with orange streaks, so he’s clearly sound on the big issues.
    ..
    Seriously, ED Kain is nowhere near a glibertarian. He is willing to rethink when challenged, he doesn’t have the standard glibertarian default to “I will now ban you to preserve my free speech”, and I’ve seen him admit that he got things wrong upon reflection.

    Calling him a “randroid” accomplishes nothing, explains nothing, and does nothing to rebut his positions.

  61. 61
  62. 62
    Rex says:

    And some poor bastard actually married this woman.

  63. 63

    @John Cole:

    Ok. I’m not sure what he said that was so offensive. I’m not sure what he said that was offensive at all, actually.

    You wouldn’t. No matter what he said. We could predict that and so while you are defending E.D., we can go off and make more popcorn.

  64. 64
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    Really,I don’t mean to be petty. But after all I consider myself BJ’s musical taste ombudsman.

    Or tastebudsman.

    (Yes!)

  65. 65
    morzer says:

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Bash someone long enough, and sooner or later they’ll decide it isn’t really worth the effort of continuing the discussion. If that’s what you want to happen here with ED Kain, join the spoilt children throwing around accusations of glibertarianism. I just think that condemning someone like this for one inartful comment is harsh, small-minded and cowardly. If Anne Laurie wants ED Kaine gone, maybe she could just say so, rather writing passive-aggressive nonsense like this. If she doesn’t, she could stand to be less offensive and show more of a sense of humor.

  66. 66
    Hunter Gathers says:

    Perhaps our erstwhile ombudsman can make an appearance in these comments to help us understand why he decided to make such a statement on a different blog, and why he lacks the intestinal fortitude to do so here.

    If you can’t stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

    Or perhaps we just aren’t libertarian enough.

  67. 67
    gil mann says:

    I loathe inconsiderate people—they should all DIAF

    With the lone exception of the guy in the Civic at the corner of 5th and Bloomfield this afternoon, I strongly disagree.

  68. 68
    morzer says:

    @J sub D:

    Yes, I’ve noticed Megan McArdle’s moustache and thought it rather impressive, all things considered.

  69. 69
    Quicksand says:

    @rageahol:

    Was it you who mentioned this in another thread? It works fine for me, in Google Reader, using the following feed URL:

    http://www.balloon-juice.com/?feed=rss2

  70. 70
    Obliterati says:

    So I guess I can go ahead and put the kibosh on inviting both AL and EDK for thanksgiving…

  71. 71
    freelancer says:

    @gil mann:

    With the lone exception of the guy in the Civic at the corner of 5th and Bloomfield this afternoon, I strongly disagree.

    That guy was a total asshole.

  72. 72

    Personally, I don’t have a problem with Kain… I just don’t know why this blog spends so much time on what’s essentially a fringe ideology. If we’re going to shower them with so much attention, we should have the decency to give equal time to the Communist Party… they at least run some candidates out there on occasion.

  73. 73
    Kryptik says:

    Now this isn’t fair, Anne.

    I mean, E.D.’s done about as good a job as Andrew Alexander has…which begs the question of whether considering oneself an ‘Ombudsman’ on that level is something you actually wanna brag about.

    And John, I think the thing people are objecting to is just how representative Mr. Kain is of both the front-pagers and the readership of the blog to consider himself an Ombudsman, or even ‘in-house critic’. He clearly sees himself as a one-man check on everyone here, seems like, and that’s a fairly haughty stand to take.

  74. 74
    Alexandra the London Designer says:

    I’d swap ED Kain as front pager for Aimai, any day of the week, John.

  75. 75

    I’ve always considered myself the exalted Grand Poobah.

  76. 76
    Suck It Up! says:

    I don’t know who I should be more embarrassed for, Sharon Angle or the people in this ad.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded

    Oy!

  77. 77
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @J.W. Hamner: I have often wondered about the same thing myself. Was John Cole a libertarian, back in his Republican days?

  78. 78
    MikeJ says:

    @Obliterati: Meh. It would be better than watching the same old family arguments that you’ve seen your entire life. Just play the right music.

  79. 79
    J sub D says:

    @Chyron HR:

    Oh, no, those weren’t real Democrats. Any Democrat that did something bad retroactively stops being a Democrat and becomes something else entirely, so there.

    Thanks. That explains why pauper Charlie Rangel didn’t get his own thread here.

    In the flush of victory in 2006, Nancy Pelosi said

    This leadership team will create the most honest, most open, and most ethical Congress in history

    and then put Charlie in as chair of Ways and Means. I guess that his being a self serving sleazeball wasn’t readily apparent in 2007.

    ETA – I acknowledge that the GOP is no better when it comes to ethics. No worse, but no better.

  80. 80
    Alex S. says:

    @Suck It Up!:

    I had to think of The Stand.

  81. 81
    Cris says:

    @Cycloptichorn: “So ‘ombudsman’ is not the word I was looking for. I’d say ‘in-house critic’ is more like it.”

    Or maybe “token.”

  82. 82
    JAHILL10 says:

    I don’t read E.D. Kain at all anymore. His posts are generally boring, uninformative, and middle of the road. And most of the time he acts like he expects a lollipop for taking a perfectly reasonable position. So if he’s ombudsmanning me I am completely unaware of it.
    That said, AL is right. It is downright rude to appoint yourself to a smarter than thou position on someone else’s blog and announce it in another venue. Unless, of course, JC, you appointed ED the ombudsman and didn’t tell anyone but ED.

  83. 83
    John O says:

    @morzer:

    A front-pager could easily be offended by ED’s declaration, and I thought what she wrote was really funny. While not being in any way offended or angered by the subject at hand–people say a lot of dumb things on the internets. I was just amused. I guess more of a “pass the popcorn” thing for me.

    Isn’t it possible that ED was being thoughtless and in a hurry, said something sort of legitimately condescending and arrogant, AL got legitimately PO’d about it and some of us just want to laugh, depending on the mood we’re in?

  84. 84
    kdaug says:

    @Anne Laurie:

    (B) People who think it’s ballsy to make up their own self-important titles should at least have the courtesy to announce their new title to their purported targets, before strutting around in front of a happy-to-be-dazzled audience elsewhere

    Yurp. Self-appointed referees can referee themselves.

    It’s a pack’o jackals here. Been that way for a long time.

    Want’s to go off to his other places and brag how he’s lording over us here? Fine. His right.

    But if he can’t stand up in the face of criticism and defend himself, does these little hit-n-run posts, then runs off to another blog to brag about how he’s our referee?

    He’s got some learnin’ to do, all I’m sayin’.

  85. 85
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @Kryptik: What else did you expect, after all he is a gentleman in a league of his own, while we are merely the unwashed masses.

  86. 86
    Tom Levenson says:

    @J sub D: ED’s not, but your are.

    Happy now?

    And with that, back to my Brooks tome.

  87. 87
    dollared says:

    Imagine – a guy as sweet-tempered as John Cole, always with a kind word and a patient expression on his face for the slightly dim-witted, never uttering a bad word about anyone, no matter how justified – imagine himself suddenly and inexplicably surrounded by a snarling bunch of sarcastic terriers hacking at each other with sharp-edged inside jokes and ruthlessly exposing each other’s erroneous zones.

    Really, it’s just inexplicable. And so unfair to our sainted John.

  88. 88

    Just wanted to say I enjoy EDK’s posts as much as I enjoy all the main contributors’ posts. Variety is the spice of life, and such.

  89. 89
    J sub D says:

    If the Dems force an up or down vote on repealing DADT and enacting DREAM during this lame duck session as they claim I will be pleased.

    If they don’t I will use it to justifiably mock their leadership.

  90. 90
    morzer says:

    @John O:

    You have an odd sense of funny. Plenty of people would take her post as fighting words, and react accordingly. Still, if you want to encourage the rent-a-mob to drive out a front pager, have fun storming the castle.

  91. 91
    WyldPirate says:

    @John Cole:

    Ok. I’m not sure what he said that was so offensive. I’m not sure what he said that was offensive at all, actually.

    He didn’t say anything particularly offensive, John. Instead, he just riled up the Obot/anti-Firebagger/lemming crew that is the BJ commentariat echo chamber clique.

  92. 92
    russell says:

    I acknowledge that the GOP is no better when it comes to ethics. No worse, but no better.

    Actually, they’re worse.

  93. 93
    John O says:

    @morzer:

    ED wrote something that really pissed me off once, and I went snarling jackal but in a respectful way, but got nothing (or maybe it was very little) back. He’s just a kid, and while with the benefit of hindsight I know I was a moron at that age, I’ll bet I didn’t think so at the time.

    I think all kinds of things are funny at different times, hell, reading blogs themselves is alternately funny and depressing for me, and once I clicked the link to get AL’s first paragraph into context, I really laughed hard at the art in the snark. C’mon, “awarding themselves hall monitor sashes?” That was a good one.

  94. 94
    kdaug says:

    @dollared:

    and a patient expression on his face

    Wait, wait, wait… you’ve seen John’s face???

  95. 95

    WyldPirate should be our ombudsman. Sure, he hates the blog and its readers, but that just means he can be truly objective.

  96. 96
  97. 97
    Margarita says:

    Overreact much?

    I hesitate to comment, because I genuinely suspect that Anne Laurie is not a well person, and it’s easy enough to scroll on by her posts, which I am happy to continue doing. But this crosses a line into actively trying to wreck the place. Respectfully, Anne, why don’t you pay more attention to your own situation and less to who should or should not DIAF? What a jerk.

  98. 98
    Mary says:

    I’m only an occasional commenter and I was offended. Besides being boring and overly impressed with himself so that one always skips his posts, he has no manners. I’m with AL and DougJ. He should APOLOGIZE for his hubris even if John Cole is trying to slag the whole thing off.

  99. 99
    Jewish Steel says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    …tastebudsman

    Hello? Is this thing on?

    That shit was gold.

  100. 100
    Catsy says:

    Okay, so. My take, for whatever it’s worth–which I’m sure to most people is less than what they paid for the TCP/IP packets that brought it to them.

    Anne-Marie’s post: catty, snide, and not very constructive–in other words, not too different than at least half of the FP posts here. What sets it apart is that it’s just not terribly funny, and the cattiness is directed intra-blog rather than externally. Nothing particularly alarming, just–as someone else noted–fails to deliver. Which doesn’t mean she’s wrong.

    DougJ’s comment on the matter: succinct, dry, but a little too vague to draw interest in a post with so many other links. I went “ombudsman? WTF?”, hovered the link, saw nothing in the URL to suggest my life would be enriched by reading it, and moved on.

    Kain’s comment: pretentious, smug, not particularly clever or funny, provoked eye-rolling but no real lasting offense–mainly for just failing to be in any way interesting or useful. Which is to say, of a piece with most of his contributions here.

    Sorry, but I’ve gotta go with AM’s perspective on this. Kain is a useless appendage on the front page. His posts are glib, poorly reasoned, usually contain some fatally flawed premise or argument, and almost Broderian in their false equivalencies and passion for dry-humping the middle of the road. They are riddled with examples of superficially persuasive horseshit and inane analogies that get ripped to shreds within the first fifteen minutes of comments.

    That might be tolerable on its own merits–the other front-pagers throw down crap like that now and then, and are rightfully taken to task by the commentariat. The difference is that John and Doug actually do produce posts of value, and tend to respond to criticism and evolve their position in response to cogent arguments. Kain, by contrast, proceeds to put on an epic display of Not Getting It, usually involving at least one or two follow-up posts that more or less amount to doubling down on his previous bullshit, either misreading or dismissing arguments to the contrary and explaining at length why everyone who disagrees with him are actually the ones who Don’t Get It. It’s like watching someone demonstrate the Dunning-Kruger effect with crayon and shadow puppets.

    There are exceptions, of course. Not everything he’s posted or written is worthless.

    But on the balance, he reminds me of no one so much as Charles Bird, AKA Bird Dog, back when he was still front-paging at Obsidian Wings. For anyone who wasn’t around then or don’t know who I’m talking about, just re-read my description of Kain, swap middle of the road for greater wingnuttia, and change the names.

  101. 101
  102. 102
    dollared says:

    Anne, as the member of a large family I just want you to know that your just slightly malicious (and entirely justified) post made me feel kinda all warm and homey all over.

    So I take your post as the kind of gentle, corrective comment any older sister would have for a younger brother who she’s caught being a complete idiot in public.

  103. 103
    Jamie says:

    @anne Laurie

    I don’t want to be inconsiderate, so I just want to announce here that I’ve promoted myself. I am hereafter known as Lord of the Snowmonkeys.

  104. 104
    morzer says:

    @John O:

    If she’d stopped at the joke about sashes, it might have been moderately effective snark. It’s the piling on of childish and unwarranted insults that gives the impression that she hopes ED Kain will leave for pastures greener. Who would blame him if he did? He gets bashed here every couple of weeks, normally for things that are trivial in themselves and which the ignorant haters on here promptly turn into crimes against humanity. So he wrote a hasty comment, worded it badly, and ought to be strung up for it? I had the odd idea that we were supposed to be the liberal, tolerant, compassionate side of the divide, but looking at how people go after ED Kain, I’m reminded that the lynch mob is one of America’s oldest political traditions too.

  105. 105
    morzer says:

    @Catsy:

    Anne Laurie, not Anne-Marie.

  106. 106
    Ash Can says:

    Seriously, this is a whole lot of hoo-haw over absolutely nothing. I don’t see anything wrong with what Kain said in that thread either. Moreover, that thread over there is exactly the same as the threads over here — a bunch of like-minded people getting together and venting. BFD. They’re not calling for someone to be gunned down, they’re not blowing racist dogwhistles, they’re not sending bags of rock salt to anyone. And they’re sure as hell not posting their comments for our benefit.

    I’m having an awfully hard time finding anything about this whole situation to give a crap about, except for being annoyed at a spate of hurt feelings over fuck-all.

  107. 107
    tim serbo says:

    @Alexandra the London Designer: i so second that emotion.

  108. 108
    Catsy says:

    @morzer: Thank you. No idea what brainfart led to that. I’d correct it if I could, but FYWP.

  109. 109
    trizzlor says:

    For what it’s worth, I’ll second the view that this is a sad and petty post way of dealing with your issues. It was pretty clear to me that ED was saying that he had obviously different opinions to most of the front-pagers and his role was to challenge some of the central dogmas.

    Why anyone would want all of the front-pagers to have identical political view-points is bizzare to me, but that’s the kind of environment in which it becomes okay to call someone you really don’t like a “porch monkey”, for example.

  110. 110
    morzer says:

    @Ash Can:

    If I could persuade them to send me rock salt, my winters tottering along the sidewalk might be a little safer. If only I’d listened to the wise people who told me that being a weak tea Senator from Maine would serve me well later in life.

  111. 111
    TKOEd says:

    Blah,

    I’m with Cole. It wasn’t that serious. Should he have said it? No. Should he have said it on another blog? Hell no, but E.D. is no dope & no jackass. And I think he’s actually pretty far from the Reason types even if he does occasionally sympathize with them.

  112. 112
    morzer says:

    @Catsy:

    I blame Ana Marie Cox. She got into your head and fucked with your keyboard.

  113. 113
    Jewish Steel says:

    @John O

    Thank you. I’ll stop pouting now

    Or eventually.

  114. 114
    tim serbo says:

    @J sub D: oh, wow, our fearless friend is taking a such a brave stand. it’s not as if any of the democrats here would so daringly defy the orthodoxy. arse.

  115. 115
    Calouste says:

    @BR:
    __

    __
    Bottom line for me is that I don’t learn anything from ED’s posts, they don’t make me laugh, and they don’t contain pictures of cats. And they usually say in 500 words what could be said in 0 5.

    “I am a complete idiot.”

    Yep, that’s 5 words.

  116. 116
    Gin & Tonic says:

    @John Cole:

    Regardless, I think everyone on the roster here has something really positive to offer the website. If I didn’t, I would say so.

    Tom Levenson and Angry Black Lady were great additions. If Kain goes away I won’t cry.

  117. 117
    Catsy says:

    @morzer: I would be so much more excited if the action verbs in that sentence were creatively rearranged.

  118. 118
    Ash Can says:

    @morzer: LOL! By that I meant, of course, that they weren’t doing anything over there that was genuinely mockable. Maybe if they got together and decided that they were going to Fed-Ex each and every one of us the complete works of Ayn Rand in leather-bound, gold-trim hardcover in order to teach us the value of fiscal responsibility it’d be worth a post.

  119. 119
    morzer says:

    @Ash Can:

    I wasn’t assuming you were being serious, just contemplating the ways in which the ship of fools could be persuaded to embark for a more… profitable destination.

    In fact, I think I shall buy http://www.olympiasnowe.com and start sending Erick Erickson emails asking where my mass delivery of rock salt is.

    Curses, Limpy Snowe beat me to it. But there’s always olympiasnowe.net….

  120. 120
    morzer says:

    @Catsy:

    You can rearrange the verbs creatively, and I shall rearrange AMC creatively using them. Sound like a plan?

  121. 121
    J sub D says:

    @tim serbo:
    It has been what, 22 months, with the Dems holding a majority in the house and a huge majority in the senate?

    They are just now getting around to maybe voting on basic human decency legislation. It’s been said better late than never (we shall see if either comes to the floor), but early is even better than late. I want to see who on both sides of the aisle votes against basic human decency. Don’t you?

  122. 122
    morzer says:

    @J sub D:

    Do we really have to write a simple book with numerous pictures for you on the theme of The Blue Dogs and The Filibuster – again?

  123. 123
    rageahol says:

    @Quicksand:

    yeah, it was me that mentioned it. it doesnt come up in igoogle or in my other rss reader of choice, canto.

  124. 124
    Cycloptichorn says:

    @J sub D:


    It has been what, 22 months, with the Dems holding a majority in the house and a huge majority in the senate?

    When the other side filibusters every single thing you do in the Senate, 58 isn’t a ‘huge majority.’ I think that’s been pretty well proven to be true over the last two years.

    But, don’t let little things like an examination of the real-world situation get in the way of your attempts to put the Dems down. That would be boring, and your comment was intended to be some combination of funny/interesting. At least, I assume that’s what you were shooting for.

  125. 125
    Capn America says:

    @Alex S.:
    It just means that when you set an average price, those with the highest willingness to pay benefit the most. Sometimes that’s the rich, but in a health insurance market, it’s the sick, or in a market for education, it’s the naturally gifted since they benefit most from education as far as long-term prospects go. And of course, certain industries like airlines are well aware of this and use it to their advantage, by selling “first class” “business class” and “economy” tickets, thus trying to separate the different willingness to pay populations from each other.

    Also, regarding intra-blogular fighting, let’s all just keep in mind that BLOGGING IS SRS BUSINESS.

  126. 126
    tim serbo says:

    @J sub D: way to change the subject. i was merely pointing out that you look like an arse when you preen.

  127. 127
    sven says:

    @morzer: I agree with you that the glibertarian moniker doesn’t fit with EDK but I think there is a good reason people keep going that direction with his posts. EDK sometimes seems to act like we are in a teen movie and he is one of the ‘cool’ kids who discovers he enjoys slumming with the kids from the other side of the tracks. When at Balloon Juice EDK has made a real contribution and an obvious effort to find common ground. Nevertheless, there is the sense that when he is among libertarians the reverse does not apply. If he is loudly defending BJ in other venues I would be happy to hear it. The ‘ombudsman remark’ smacks of being ignored in the school hallways because he is back with his ‘real’ friends.

  128. 128
    MarkusR says:

    While the libertarians are really sensitive about how us liberals perceive the official libertarianism(TM), they sure don’t waste time defining liberals and liberalism, as they like.

  129. 129
    morzer says:

    @sven:

    I don’t think Kain is doing anything that any of us don’t do. We all talk differently to different groups of people. Which of us hasn’t tactfully swallowed some harsh words when talking to an acquaintance of different political persuasion? Which of us hasn’t had to stay silent when a boss or co-worker said something stupid or offensive? The crucial fact here is that ED Kain is honest enough to use the same handle for the different groups he talks to on the internet. That means he can be tracked and recorded for purposes of self-righteous disapproval by people who want to find some overwhelming significance in even an off-the-cuff or poorly phrased utterance. As I see it, Kain has changed his views and positions on a number of points, even in his short time here. I don’t think he’s been found to be hypocritical in this. Equally, he upsets some people because he has has tried to argue for ideas that are different to a comfortable liberal orthodoxy. We talk about how liberals are supposedly more openminded, but all too often we fall short as soon as anyone challenges us. It’s much too easy to respond by pouncing on one poor choice of words and throwing lazy insults or dismissing our interlocutor outright.

  130. 130
    JGabriel says:

    @Jewish Steel:

    That shit was gold.

    If it’s any consolation this late in the thread, I thought so too.

    .

  131. 131
    Alex S. says:

    @Capn America:

    I understand your airline example, but not the others. When it comes to health insurance, the rich will still have the biggest surplus and poor people will not be able to afford insurance without a social net. Remember, I am assuming a perfect market, no subsidies or taxes.
    And regarding education, who says that the naturally gifted benefit most from education? On the contrary, without education the naturally gifted will have a huge advantage. But here, like in the airline example, more money will get you more. Only that, once again, being rich from the beginning allows you to spend more money on education to get even richer.
    In my opinion, it is a moral duty to make the market as efficient as possible with the intention to expand the welfare state accordingly.

  132. 132
    Mnemosyne says:

    @J sub D:

    They are just now getting around to maybe voting on basic human decency legislation.

    I guess you missed the vote a couple of months ago, huh?

    If you’re not paying attention then, yes, I can see how this would seem like something thrown together at the last minute rather than legislation that has been in this form since June and has already been blocked from cloture by the Republicans.

  133. 133
    Mnemosyne says:

    @sven:

    I have to agree that there’s something more than a little junior high about it. Like that girl who pretends to be your friend and then it turns out she’s been spreading rumors about you behind your back.

  134. 134
    morzer says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Except that ED Kain made his poorly worded remark under his own name in a public forum. That’s rather different to sneaking around behind people’s backs.

  135. 135
    shortstop says:

    @WyldPirate: I don’t get over here often enough to be sure you’re not a bad parody. Come to think of it, I don’t care that much.

    –shoyrtstoppe

  136. 136
    HyperIon says:

    @John Colewrote:

    Ok. I’m not sure what he said that was so offensive. I’m not sure what he said that was offensive at all, actually.

    Are you implying that some commenters here are clutching their pearls?

  137. 137
    b-psycho says:

    @J sub D: And if you don’t, they claim you aren’t one.

  138. 138
    Dee Loralei says:

    I’m glad ED’s here, not because I agree with him, but because I don’t.It’s nice to have reasoned discourse with people you don’t agree with. It’s nice of you all to knock down his arguments one by one, making it easier for me to succinctly knock down the same arguments I hear in the meatspace. And you know, ED’s young and he has been known to actually change his mind over the course of a post/ comment section or after follow-up posts. This is a good thing people! This is behavior that should be encouraged and rewarded. I don’t see ED as a “glibertarian” at all. I see him as an intelligent young man doing his best raising a young family and trying to make sense of it all. And writing about things that interest him, that he thinks might interest us. And fuck it, in a lot of ways Libertarians are our natural allies. Drug legalization, prostitution, gay rights, and the biggie, national security state. Can’t we work with them on those things? We’re the big tent people! ED is much, much better than those idiots at Reason who only vote Republican. Let’s keep ED around, ok? I think he said something careless which happens all the time, especially on the net. There’s no reason to pillory the poor guy. I think this entire frou- for- all is a complete waste of time and feelings.

  139. 139
    shortstop says:

    @morzer: Yeah, but it’s still weaselly. Just a little bit greasy, you know?

    Hey, y’all, it’s perfectly possible that Kain’s comment was laughably self-aggrandizing AND Anne Laurie’s post is needlessly vitriolic. Why must we always exhibit this crass binary thinking?!

  140. 140
    JMC_in_the_ATL says:

    @BR: “My arguments are never cogent.” ?
    “I don’t respond to comments.” ?

  141. 141
    morzer says:

    @Dee Loralei:

    You ought to win the thread for this one, but I imagine that some snark merchant will steal the prize. Nonetheless, for me, you win the thread.

  142. 142
    morzer says:

    @shortstop:

    Still looks like a careless remark to me. Not sure why it’s greasy or weaselly. He wrote a comment on another blog, said something silly and took it back on reflection. It’s hardly worthy of comment, much less this elaborate hazing ritual that people seem to want to put the guy through.

  143. 143
    SRW1 says:

    @John Cole:

    Ok. I’m not sure what he said that was so offensive. I’m not sure what he said that was offensive at all, actually.

    It wasn’t offensive, it was the embarrassingly servile tone in ED’s attempt of an excuse.

    Ken:
    […] I have a tremendous amount of respect for E.D., who is much smarter and I better writer than I, but I’m finding it increasingly difficult to fathom why he’s subjecting himself to it. [girls-bathroom stall graffiti at BJ]

    ED:
    Ken Thanks. You know, I sort of feel like perhaps my proper role there is as ombudsman. I’m still figuring it out myself. I still write a lot more over at The League.

  144. 144
    sven says:

    @morzer: I’m certainly not calling EDK a hypocrite and I don’t blame him for calibrating his message to the audience. His tone may be (slightly) different but I think Eric makes substantial points both here and TLOG.

    My point is that when a conservative brings up his participation at Balloon Juice he suddenly seems more than a little embarrassed. Look at his correction, ‘Ombudsman’ became ‘in-house critic’.

    EDK has made it plain that on some issues his views have drifted left over the past few years. If he thinks we are right on some issues then why does he need to apologize for even associating with us?

  145. 145
    Jewish Steel says:

    @JGabriel

    Yes, I am consoled.

    The question is, should I be encouraged?

  146. 146
    shortstop says:

    @morzer:

    It was greasy because of this:

    It wasn’t offensive, it was the embarrassingly servile tone in ED’s attempt of an excuse.

    I was half-watching an episode of The Tudors last night (for the costumes! THE COSTUMES!) while doing some invoicing. When I read Kain’s comment today I immediately thought of various courtiers bowing and scraping and earnestly agreeing with whomever happened to be in ascendancy with old Hal at that particular mo. Kain’s buddies over there were loftily wondering why Kain lowers himself to participate in such an endeavor as blogging on BJ, and Kain responds with an embarrassed “I only do it to bring Christ to the savages” remark. It’s just icky.

  147. 147
    hilzoy says:

    @Catsy: Charles Bird: ah, the memories …

    ::shudders::

  148. 148
    sven says:

    @SRW1: Exactly.

    I’m finding it increasingly difficult to fathom why he’s subjecting himself to it. But then, I was never one to try to bring religion to the fuzzy-wuzzies.

    Why couldn’t he just say:

    “I disagree with folks at BJ a lot of the time but on some issues I think they may have a point.”

    Instead we (more or less) get a defense of bringing religion to the fuzzy-wuzzies. (Ombudsman, in-house critic, etc…)

  149. 149
    morzer says:

    @shortstop:

    The word “over-interpretation” springs to mind. Christ and the savages? Please!

  150. 150
    sidereal says:

    Worst thread ever. ED is fine. Apparently a nonliberal being slightly ew at liberals justifies being called everything short of a child molester. Ease off the throttle a bit.

    Also, when the fuck did this turn into Metamucil and Bingo night? ED Kain isn’t ‘young’. He’s an adult. With kids. How old do you have to be before you’re allowed to have an opinion without being condescended to?

  151. 151
    sidereal says:

    Hey, it’s hilzoy! I’m calling an Obsidian Wings reunion. Somebody go get Moe Lane.

  152. 152
    morzer says:

    @sidereal:

    Every night round here is Metamucil and Bingo night. Innocent fun for a family demographic.

    Now, you kids get off my lawn! Also too.

  153. 153
    shortstop says:

    @morzer: I’m just not getting enough entertainment out of making this grocery list. Maybe if I put chopped pears and apples in the cranberry sauce, and a little tart orange juice. You think? Also, is there any reason why I can’t serve a lemon icebox pie* on Thanksgiving along with the the cherry and pumpkin? I’ve been craving lemon icebox pie for like six months now.

    *No, I do not call my refrigerator an “icebox.” This is an old Southern recipe and that’s what it’s called.

  154. 154
    morzer says:

    @shortstop:

    I say go for it. Variety is the spice, and the spice must flow.

    I might add pears and hold off on the apple for the sauce, but that’s just me.

  155. 155
    Hawes says:

    I guess this makes me uncouth, but I’ve recently announced on another blog that I really see myself as a the Balloon Juice gaffer. Admittedly, I realize that others probably see me more as a key grip or best boy, but when you come right down to it…

    Gaffer.

    That’s me.

    YOU’RE WELCOME!

  156. 156
    morzer says:

    @Hawes:

    Gaffer Gamgee?

  157. 157
    shortstop says:

    @morzer: I was thinking a 2-1 ratio on the pears-apples, but you may be right. The main thing is to make enough of the stuff, because last year I underestimated and the unchristened savages at my table got unruly about there being no cranberry sauce in their take-home leftovers. Ungrateful wretches.

  158. 158
    shortstop says:

    @Hawes: This is good. I see myself as the person who hands you folks a hand towel in the ladies’ rooms of fine eateries. Or possibly the peanut vendor at the BJ ballpark during the soon-to-be-interminable playoffs. (They really are doing their best to ruin this game. Man, does Selig annoy me.)

  159. 159

    @J sub D:

    Two of the last four Democrats to chair the House Ways and Means Committee have been tax cheats. Three out of the last six have been criminals.
    __
    I’m being charitable by including the acting chairman, Sander Levin.
    __
    You’re right, we libertarians are assholes.

    Yes, you’re assholes. Here’s a question: what does the fact that some Democratic politicians are criminals have to do with the fact that Libertarians are assholes? The correct answer for anyone who isn’t mentally and morally retarded is absolutely nothing. Tell me, do you Libertards try this sort of thing when you get pulled over for speeding? I can just see it now.

    Officer: I clocked you doing 75 in a 35 and watched you blow through two red lights as well, but you were so busy talking on your cell phone that it took you ten minutes to see my lights and hear my siren.
    __
    J sub D: Oh yeah, well did you know that two of the last four Democrats to chair the House Ways and Means Committee have been tax cheats.
    __
    Officer: Have you been drinking sir?
    __
    J sub D: And three out of the last six have been criminals.
    __
    Officer: Sir, please step out of the car.

    Oh, and what’s your problem with these guys being tax cheats, aren’t you libertards the ones who keep bleating that taxation is theft? By your own ideology you should be condemning tax cheats, you should be celebrating them.

  160. 160
    General Stuck says:

    @sidereal:

    Also, when the fuck did this turn into Metamucil and Bingo night? ED Kain isn’t ‘young’. He’s an adult. With kids. How old do you have to be before you’re allowed to have an opinion without being condescended to?

    Old enough to know that absolute freedom is the ultimate prison, and that libertarianism, as an ideology, is not a workable nor humane philosophy to govern a country with, and can be quite clownish when taken to it’s logical ends. And is wholly inconsistent with promoting a stable country, and would act as a stimulant for civil unrest, if followed. I suspect this was why the founders mentioned promoting the general welfare as a notable inclusion in our founding document.

    But I like ED, as a person. I think he is decent, but holding onto childhood naiveties in the service of holding up nuggets of libertarian shiny things, that always turn out to be Fool’s Gold. I don’t want him to leave here as a front pager, because a lot of what he writes is actually a liberal primer for how not to do shit. I just yawn at the prospect of a blog war, or even a flame war, over what he says, is all.

  161. 161

    @Hawes:

    I guess this makes me uncouth, but I’ve recently announced on another blog that I really see myself as a the Balloon Juice gaffer. Admittedly, I realize that others probably see me more as a key grip or best boy, but when you come right down to it…
    __
    Gaffer.
    __
    That’s me.

    Oh yeah, well that’s nothing. I recently announced on another blog that I really see myself as the Balloon Juice fluffer. What? How come everyone starts laughing when I say that? You know, the fluffer, the guy who gets to go out there with that cool clipboard with the clicky thing on the top and say “Action” at the beginning of the scene. That’s what the fluffer does right? I mean how hard could it be?

    I’ve got a job interview Monday where I’m going to show off my fluffing skills at a small film studio. The director said that I wasn’t the kind of person that they usually hired as a fluffer but that would probably get by because I have a pretty mouth. I wonder what he meant by that.

  162. 162

    @sven: Yep. This is pretty much what I got from it. I like E.D.. I read his posts. I think he has an interesting perspective. He does engage in the later-night threads when he posts them, which I appreciate. However, this was just juvenile.

    @SRW1: Agreed. It was the tone. It was the playing-up to the other commenter. It did not speak well of E.D.

    Personally, I didn’t find it offensive, but I did lift an eyebrow. But what do I know? I’m just the Late-Night Doyenne of Balloon Juice.

  163. 163
    Anya says:

    People, people, leave ED alone. He’s a decent man who argues his point forcefully. Disagree with his ideas, but no need to mock him. Also, too, I don’t find what he said offensive. Maybe he meant that he’s the in-house contrarian. Makes sense, since the rest of the front-pagers and the commenters are from the godless commie variety.

  164. 164
    DPirate says:

    Yes, it’s so upsetting we may all have to take our little red wagons and go home.

  165. 165
    Midnight Marauder says:

    I like how we’re pretending this is only the first time ED has run off to one of his home blogs to shit on the inferior commentariat here. I also enjoy someone proclaiming themselves to be the “in house critic” of a blog they barely interact with, and almost never respond in any substantive way to pointed criticisms.

    That shit is FUCKING HILARIOUS.

  166. 166
    sidereal says:

    @General Stuck:
    Lots of very elderly people have lots of stupid ideas (just look at the outcomes of midterm elections). Dismissing someone as being some sort of wet-behind-the-ears naif because they think something stupid is just lazy poo-flinging because argumentation is too much work on a Friday night.

    And I’m not going to let this country descend into a poo-covered gerontocracy without a fight. A drunken Irish fight.

  167. 167
    Jane2 says:

    Amen, Anne. Full of himself much? Reminds me of the quivering egos in grad school.

  168. 168
    Jane2 says:

    @Linda Featheringill: What Linda said. What kind of idiot goes off to another site and ascribes himself some role he doesn’t have? FFS, he’s a blogger. On a blog.

  169. 169
    E.D. Kain says:

    Thanks everyone. Lots to think about here. I apologize for being sloppy in the Balko thread. I honestly just couldn’t come up with the right word.

  170. 170

    @shortstop:

    lemon icebox pie

    Recipe, or it didn’t happen. Thks.

  171. 171
  172. 172
    shortstop says:

    @Tattoosydney: You betcha, but first I gotta get my mom to read it to me over the phone once she finds it in her index card file.

    @E.D. Kain: Or the right self-conception.

  173. 173

    @shortstop:

    They said that they’d have plenty of hand towels and lotion on the set, and lots of Altoids too. I can’t wait. I’m going to be working on two films, the first is called “Hiking the Appalachian Trail”, I’m guessing that it’s some kind of nature documentary and the other is called “Wide Stance”, which sounds like some kind of action movie.

  174. 174
    sidereal says:

    @E.D. Kain:

    Your first mistake is thinking there’s something here to think about.

  175. 175
    Johannes says:

    EDK is a mix; sometimes insightful, and genuinely engaging in thoughtful re-examination of his own certainties, which makes for some interesting posts; sometimes full of high sentence, but a bit obtuse. (Sorry! Couldn’t help myself!) I think that shortstop has a point about his comment savoring of his being over here slumming to instruct the unwashed is pretty off-putting, and is rather unlike him, in fact. I generally admire his ability to (when he does engage) remain civil in his responses to some pretty harsh criticism.

    Is this a big deal? Not to me; to that extent I’m with Cole. (That plus my fear of Tunch). But I also have to admit a grin at Anne Laurie’s splenetic rant. Well played, Madame!

  176. 176
    shortstop says:

    @sidereal: I said I’d post the recipe later. Sheesh.

  177. 177
    General Stuck says:

    @sidereal:

    Dismissing someone as being some sort of wet-behind-the-ears naif because they think something stupid is just lazy poo-flinging because argumentation is too much work on a Friday night.

    Well then, if you have an actual argument, then let’s get er on. Otherwise, my comment stands, stupid old folks as opposed to stupid young folks, that are wingnuts notwithstanding.

    Come to think of it, I already did make an argument why libertarianism as a governing philosophy was a joke.

    @General Stuck:

    but you haven’t made one yet.

  178. 178
    Dollared says:

    I’m just super happy with exactly how much trouble Anne knew she was going to stir up with just a little, tiny snarky post.

    That is the essence of good writing, gang. Perfect tone, perfect touch.

  179. 179
    Capn America says:

    @Alex S.:
    In the education example, I take your point. As far as health care goes, I was assuming community rating, ie everybody in a given plan pays the same premium regardless of whether they’re a 60-year-old smoker or a twenty-year-old yoga instructor. In that case, the former definitely benefits more from the plan, since they are far more likely to go to the doctor, have a hospital visit, etc. yet they still pay the same price as the yoga instructor. The older person would probably pay a higher premium for the health insurance up to the point where it becomes too expensive relative to its benefits, but since they don’t have to, the difference in willingness to pay and actual premium is their surplus.

  180. 180
    Uriel says:

    Long and long again I’ve gleaned the vague shadows of the evidence of the thing- following the whispered rumors masquerading as fictions, prying under the deliberately self-obscuring revelations hiding proudly behind their ostentatious obliqueness, endlessly chasing the weird and twisted tales of a thing that that could nary exist except for the fact that it must- the tales and legends and myths that all others dismissed as the fever born dread of a truth that none was brave enough to accept as all but self-evident even as it itself sought to deny it’s very existence.

    It has grown to seem that my life entire has been compulsively dedicated these many years to unearthing that singular dream contained within a nightmare that no other would face in fear of madness, ecstasy or both so commingled as to be inseparable. Doomed to hunt for-

    The dumbest thread on the internets.

    And, well, here it is! So, I guess I’m done with all that, then. Huh. Wonder what’s on tv.

  181. 181
    sidereal says:

    @Dollared:

    You realize that’s the entire business model of Politico, right? I don’t think it’s the sort of thing that should be encouraged.

  182. 182
    taylormattd says:

    @John Cole: are you kidding? Give me a break. You’d be yelling and screaming about what a dumbass dick he was if you didn’t feel the need to defend your decision to ask him to frontpage here.

  183. 183
    Dollared says:

    @sidereal,

    No, that isn’t really the business model of Politico. You’re close – but none of the really provocative stuff gets posted unless there’s somebody on K Street with a specific Agenda behind it.

    Here, Anne was just poking a stick in the hornet’s nest for the fun of it.

    Over there, it’s all about serving MONEY.

  184. 184
    mds says:

    Hi, everyone! I had to go to the further Target, because the near one was out of SunChips(TM). What’d I miss?

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