I’d Support This

We’ll file this under divine retribution:

Opponents of a Nevada nuclear waste dump thought they’d finally managed to kill the Yucca Mountain project. Then came Sharron Angle.

The tea party-backed Republican stands a good chance at ousting Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, who has spent much of his career fighting the nuclear repository. And without a senior Nevada lawmaker in position to fend off Yucca’s supporters, the project could have new life.

A Yucca kick-start would be welcome news to the nuclear industry and pro-nuclear lawmakers who see the lack of a long-term repository as a roadblock for what they foresee as a U.S. nuclear renaissance.

Nuclear power has become a central tenet of congressional Republicans’ energy agenda; senators like John McCain, Lindsey Graham and Lamar Alexander say expanding the power source will help to cut dependence on foreign oil and lower greenhouse gas emissions. Democrats and the Obama administration have shown a willingness to compromise on the issue, and nuclear is posed to be a focal point of energy talks next year on Capitol Hill if Republicans make major electoral gains.

Reid often takes credit for killing the multibillion-dollar Yucca project by leading efforts to starve its funding and prodding the Obama administration to explore alternative sites. But Congress is full of powerful lawmakers eager to restart the project, and Yucca opponents fear that the rest of the Nevada delegation won’t be strong enough to fend them off if Reid loses.

I’m all in favor of rewarding Nevadans for their Sharron Angle votes. If we have to tolerate her toxic waste on the national scene, you get our radioactive waste in your back yard. Seems like a fair trade.

When Republicans sweep to power in the next 48 hours, this site is a no sympathy zone. Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear. There will be no sympathy here. Have fun, protest people. Now you really have something to protest about, and you don’t have Rahm to kick around any more.

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234 replies
  1. 1
    beltane says:

    I’d like to send all my trash to Nevada. In fact, I’m all in favor of turning Nevada into America’s landfill.

  2. 2
    some other guy says:

    ASSEMBLE THE CIRCULAR FIRING SQUAD!!!

    And just how much phonebanking and canvasing did you do, Mr. Cole?

    Or are you just another useless hippie, content to just whine on your blog, maybe sending $10 or $20 to a candidate, while the real backbone of the Democratic party, the activists you irrationally hate, volunteer to do all the hard work?

    Clearly, this loss is all your fault, and has nothing to do with the fact that we’ve had nearly 10% unemployment for the last year, and for the foreseeable future.

    Nope, it’s all the hippies’ fault. If only Code Pink had clapped louder we’d have even larger majorities in Congress come Wednesday.

  3. 3
    RalfW says:

    Prostitutes, casinos, a giant glowing mountain of nuclear waste, and a couple ski areas near lake Tahoe that really just feel like they’re part of California anyway – that’ll be Nevada for ya.

    Sounds great. Bring on the $99 airfares and $29 seedy hotel rooms!

  4. 4
    JimF says:

    Heh, I used to have that attitude; which is why I voted for Perot. The past several years have taught me the error of my ways.

  5. 5
    RalfW says:

    @some other guy: See that $79,400 over there to the right, bucko? Sure JC didn’t give all that, but he organized it, pushed it, and gave to it. So, uhh, buzz off. Your crabby, flabby attack is a load of fail.

  6. 6
    Corner Stone says:

    Give me a fucking break.

  7. 7
    Dave L says:

    I gave money and canvassed, but at this point I’d almost welcome a Republican takeover of both the House and Senate. The Dems wouldn’t hold a vote on taxes to show up the difference between the parties, but a Republican Congress will have to, right?

    If they only take the House, the GOP will follow the Bachman playbook and hold endless “investigations”, then blame the Democratic-majority Senate for their inability to get anything done. To hell with that — give ’em both, and let them spell out in detail what they want to do. And let the Dems run against THAT in 2012.

  8. 8
    El Cid says:

    I sure disagreed with those who say that there is “no” difference between the two parties, even when “no” really means basic stands on certain issues they care about, but I sure as heck wouldn’t blame such people for the loss of the House which we’ll overwhelmingly likely see.

  9. 9
    harlana says:

    Whatev. Criticism of the Dem party within its own ranks did not create this Teabagger nonsense.

  10. 10
    Zifnab says:

    @some other guy:

    Or are you just another useless hippie, content to just whine on your blog, maybe sending $10 or $20 to a candidate, while the real backbone of the Democratic party, the activists you irrationally hate, volunteer to do all the hard work?

    /Looks right
    /Notes nearly $80k in fundraising conducted by this site
    /Leafs through countless GOTV posts
    /Checks various board posters talking about their phone banking experiences.

    Yeah. Fuck you, John Cole. What have you ever done?

  11. 11
    catclub says:

    The Nelson Muntz Ha-ha may be coming for Nevada.

    On the other hand, the GOP has done its best to give Reid a chance. It has 14-15% unemployment and the race is still tight, as Atrios puts it. A sane GOP candidate would have put the race away weeks ago.

  12. 12

    I point no blame. I’d rather get a head start on the whiskey river the next few years may well require.

  13. 13
    Jonathan says:

    If you’re going to put nuclear waste somewhere, Yucca mountain is probably the best possible location in the US. Harry Reid should not be doing so much to stop it in the first place.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....tain_2.jpg

  14. 14
    General Stuck says:

    When Republicans sweep to power in the next 48 hours, this site is a no sympathy zone. Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear. There will be no sympathy here.

    Oh dear. I got called a bigot last night on this blog for saying the watb progressive pro lefters had “thick skulls” and “mush” for brains. I expect this will make their pretty little heads explode.

  15. 15
    Zifnab says:

    @harlana: No. But it did go a long way towards creating the intra-party sloth. The guys in power did a lot to fuck over party enthusiasm. At the same time, some of the bloggers and rabble rousers who were so enthusiastic about GOTV in ’06 and ’08 have decided ’10 isn’t worth their time. Honestly, the Dem Party doesn’t need more PUMAs.

    I got to see this in ’00, when I and my high school and college aged friends were asking, “How is Bush any different from Al Gore?” and then I got to spend 8 years learning the answer. It’s not a question I’m eager to see repeated with Obama, but that’s exactly what all too many left-leaning independents, Dems, and Greens have done.

  16. 16
    RobertB says:

    The Democratic Party is going to be made of fail until the current crop who’s walking around in mortal fear of Ronald Reagan is dead and gone. Whether or not your average Republican actually _believes_ in the bullshit they’re selling, at least they sell it well. Your average Democrat can’t run fast enough away from the party’s platform come election time. And these days perception’s what counts for your average voter.

  17. 17
    Violet says:

    @Dave L:

    The Dems wouldn’t hold a vote on taxes to show up the difference between the parties, but a Republican Congress will have to, right?

    No, no, NO! The Republicans don’t have to do ANYTHING. Why do people persist in thinking they will “have” to do something. The Republicans are pros at doing NOTHING and then blaming their doing-nothing on the Democrats. “The Democrats are not acting in a bipartisan manner.” “The President is an obstructionist.” “We would have fixed the economy but the Democrats won’t support job-creating bills.” Etc., etc. ad nauseum.

    WHY does ANYONE think the Republicans will “have to” do anything at all? The Republicans have one goal: Make Obama a one term president. The less they accomplish and the worse the economy is, the better for them.

  18. 18
    merrinc says:

    On one hand, I would like to see the proverbial chickens come home to roost. Where I live (largest city in NC), we’ve seen libraries closed, parks and rec staff and services decimated, school budgets cut (with several school closings/consolidations on the table as I type) and that’s all before the projected Republican landslide “stops all the wasteful spending.” So it would almost be amusing to see how bad it gets if the crazies do take power…

    On the other, we have to live through it.

    (Not to mention that regardless of the outcome of tomorrow’s elections, we still have at least two more years of everything being Obama’s fault.)

  19. 19
    General Stuck says:

    Give me a fucking break.

    No

  20. 20
    El Cid says:

    @General Stuck:

    I got called a bigot last night on this blog for saying the watb progressive pro lefters had “thick skulls” and “mush” for brains. I expect this will make their pretty little heads explode.

    My expectation would be that people who you would say fit into that category are used to such declarations already.

  21. 21
    Martin says:

    Yucca Mountain is effectively a dead idea. The preferred concept now is to just bring a drilling rig to the location of the waste, drill down a few miles, dump the shit in there in the steel containers already approved for waste storage, pour concrete over it, and repeat until it’s gone. You eliminate the risk of transport, which is the part the public most worries about, and it’s way the fuck below water tables and such.

  22. 22
    some other guy says:

    @RalfW:

    Relax, guy. Like John, I need a scapegoat on the left to blame. Don’t harsh my hippie punching buzz. After all, what fun would it be to lay the blame for the Dem losses on boring stuff like a shitty economy and a lazy media that does nothing but echo GOP talking points while ignoring the real and significant accomplishments of Obama and the Democratic congress? Nope, clearly, it’s all John Cole and his ilk’s fault.

  23. 23
    El Cid says:

    @Violet: Given that they’ll have the House and still the ‘filibuster’ in the Senate, they can block anything they want except things like extending the Bush tax cuts for the very rich, although to be honest I never expected that ever to be allowed to expire anyway.

  24. 24
    General Stuck says:

    My expectation would be that people who you would say fit into that category are used to such declarations already.

    apparently not

  25. 25
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    I take it that Mr. Cranky Pants didn’t get his invite to Burning Man for next year.

    Here’s a pro-tip: the longer lasting isotopes of high-level rad waste persist for geologically significant spans of time. People 10,000 years from now will know or understand almost nothing about our civilization (how much do you know about the Mesolithic?) except what we decided to do with our rad waste, and what sort of ceramics we left behind (personally I think Song dyn. China is kicking our post-modern asses). Perhaps we should make decisions regarding rad waste storage and disposal with a sense of gravity and dignity commensurate with that fact, rather than making long term policy decisions out of short-term spite over contemporary events.

    On these sort of time scales, none of us own the land, we are all just borrowing it for a little while.

  26. 26
    some other guy says:

    @Violet:

    No, no, NO! The Republicans don’t have to do ANYTHING. Why do people persist in thinking they will “have” to do something. The Republicans are pros at doing NOTHING and then blaming their doing-nothing on the Democrats. “The Democrats are not acting in a bipartisan manner.” “The President is an obstructionist.” “We would have fixed the economy but the Democrats won’t support job-creating bills.” Etc., etc. ad nauseum.

    Exactly, and we’ll be treated to fair and balanced news coverage of John McCain debating George Will on Meet the Press over whether our problems over the next 2 years are ALL Obama’s fault or only mostly Obama’s fault.

    Clearly, the real answer is that this is all Jane Hamsher and Glenn Greenwald’s fault.

  27. 27
    harlana says:

    @Zifnab: Your point is well-taken in that and I will be the first to say that any progressive who stays home needs to be severely beaten, no sarcasm intended.

  28. 28
    LarsThorwald says:

    The next two years is going to be damning for this nation. The problems we face on unemployment/wages, long-term deficit attention, and prospects for solid growth in the future are our three big problems now as a nation. And the thing is, once you get to a point where those three things are in bad shape and need attention, then everything is bad. Those three pillars are at the heart of our nation’s health and they are in bad shape. Core problems. Foundational problems.

    And in the election tomorrow people are going to come out and vote to do the right thing, but there won’t be anough of them, not where we need them. The election largely will be won by people who have unabashedly told the electorate to its face that they can expect nothing — nothing — from them in terms of examining our core problems.

    Unemployment? Republicans don’t have a plan, beyond pledges to institute greater tax cuts and a reliance on a demonstrably debunked supply-side economic model.

    Decreasing the gap in income inequality? Republicans reject even the notion of income disparity as a problem, or at least one worth even paying lip service to.

    Increasing competitiveness, meaning increasing investment in research, development, and infrastructure? You must be joking. Those are things private companies and only private companies should look to. Because, as we all know, companies build really good electrical grids and highways systems.

    And as for long-term deficit attention? In the words of famous author Willa Cather, you have got to be fucking kidding me.

    All of these things are transparent. The Republicans have said that there will be no progress. Americans want the two sides to work together? Fuck you, says Boehner, this is not a time for compromise. Americans want a change in government so there will be a greater focus on the problems I identified above, particularly jobs? Fuck you, says McConnell, because the G.O.P.’s top priority is making sure Obama is a one-term President.

    They are literally — and I mean literally literally — going on television and telling the American public that if they are elected they will not serve, if they are put into power they will use not one bit of it to address the problems that beset this nation.

    And this electorate, so afraid and so ginned-up on absolute, unalloyed bullshit, is going to vote these unpatriotic, un-American ass clowns right into office.

    I have reached a point where I would like to say: “Hey, you know what? I have a solid job with security as a government attorney for the Department of Justice in the area of immigration litigation, I live within my means and my house isn’t underwater, I live in one of the bluest of the blue states, and every single one of you motherfuckers that pulled the lever for a Republican Tea Partier can choke on the fucking idiocy you invited into your homes.” I am in a grim mood and i am more than prepared to tell everyone in my parents’ uninformed, resource-sucking, self-serving generation they can suck. My. Dick.

    The problem is that I have two kids, and I don’t want them growing up in a world that looks, at best, like 1930s America, and, at worst, 1930s Germany. And the problem is that I took an oath to uphold the Constitutuion, and that means pushing back against idiot motherfuckers who would do it damage.

    So I can’t say Fuck You, Rest of America. I can’t. I really, really want to. Oh, man do I want to.

    I just hope that the electorate wise enough in 2008 to choose a guy with a black guy funny-sounding Arabic name over a decorated war veteran who looks like them snaps out of whatever fucking spell it is in in 2012 and realizes that the 112th Congress jellydicked everything and was the biggest gang of cluster-fucks ever elected, and votes them out and wises the fuck up.

  29. 29
    AB says:

    I doubt the subject was activists anyway. As far as I’m concerned, if you’re out there working for Democratic candidates, that criticism doesn’t actually apply to you, since by definition you’re acknowledging that there’s enough of a difference between the parties to deserve your time and energy and money. Rather, I think it’s more directed to those firebaggers and keyboard commandos and whatnot who actually do speak as if Obama is a one-eyed, pumpkin assed monster.

  30. 30
    chopper says:

    When Republicans sweep to power in the next 48 hours, this site is a no sympathy zone. Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear. There will be no sympathy here. Have fun, protest people. Now you really have something to protest about, and you don’t have Rahm to kick around any more.

    it’ll all be obama’s fault for not turning up his bullhorn and hopping on a soapbox, john. get with the program.

  31. 31
    lacp says:

    I think BJ has broken new ground here. Early voting has been around for a while, but I’ve never seen early post-election bitching before.

  32. 32
    chopper says:

    @some other guy:

    lol, you’re a clown.

  33. 33
    Rosalita says:

    @thomas Levenson:

    buying McCallan futures too?

  34. 34
    El Cid says:

    @General Stuck: The fact that they might give an angry series of comments — wildly angry or not — is not a disconfirmation. Unless “heads exploding” means something different than happens nearly daily on this blog.

  35. 35
    Socraticsilence says:

    @some other guy:

    So big gun- but considering Balloon Juice was distributing and encouraging phone calls on when HCR looked like a dead issue while you and yours were shouting “kill the bill” I’ll take Cole et al’s word on this before yours.

  36. 36
    El Tiburon says:

    Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear.

    Oh, there is a difference to be sure. The Democrats are not as sleazy. Kind of like Lady Gaga is less trashy than Amy Winehouse.

    If this is what it takes for the American people to once again be reminded of Republican rule, then so be it.

    But to insinuate blame on progressives or liberals who criticize this administration and Congress for the same bullshit that the Republicans pull are to somehow blame for a Republican victory is horseshit.

    It does no good to have Democrats in power without a strong and critical voice from the left trying to pull them back to the left.

    In essence, the argument seems to be if you criticize to loudly you reap what you sow. This is the biggest goddamn bunch of horseshit. The inverse, that if we all sang kumbaya while giving reach-arounds with a smile that the Republicans wouldn’t be in this position? Again, bull–fucking-shit. That is a naive and simplistic view.

    Blame the worthless media and the more worthless Democrats. But don’t blame those of us who call out criticisms where criticisms are very much due.

  37. 37
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Violet:

    WHY does ANYONE think the Republicans will “have to” do anything at all? The Republicans have one goal: Make Obama a one term president. The less they accomplish and the worse the economy is, the better for them.

    I keep wondering this, too. The Republicans get a free pass for doing jack shit, and that’s exactly what they’ll get — a free pass for sitting on their asses doing nothing.

    They will do absolutely nothing and the media will drool all over them for it.

  38. 38
    matoko_chan says:

    C’mon Cole, t’otherside had an unbeatable argument.

    teabagger/republicans (indistinguishable demographics)– we are going to give you tax cuts and entitlements and reduce the deficit.
    liberals/democrats— but that is not mathematically possible!
    teabagger/republicans— see? the liberal/elite thinks you are stupid!

    we just have to wait for the demographic timer– irrefutable mathematics.
    n/e ways, so what if we lose the House? still got the presidency and the senate. i think the next two years will be a SPECTACULAR time to work on immigration reform.
    /wicked grin
    check out Douthat concern trolling….link via Sully– i wont give that toxic misogynistic creeper hits.

  39. 39
    General Stuck says:

    For the record, I don’t blame the professional left one iota for dem losses on Tuesday. I do blame them for unhealthy rises in my personal blood pressure, and generally wasting my time arguing about the same shit ad infinitum with faulty reasoning, until the fucking cows come home, and after even that. And for generally dumbing down this, my favorite blog. No apologies made for that.

  40. 40
    some other guy says:

    @chopper:

    Careful! You’re depressing my turnout!

  41. 41
    Socraticsilence says:

    @Jonathan:

    While I agree to a point- he’s also doing the basic duty of all congressional representatives- you know Repping his constituents.

  42. 42
    General Stuck says:

    @El Cid:

    I guess I’m not on your wavelength this morning El Cid, because I don’t get what you are getting at.

  43. 43
    harlana says:

    Well, poop, I couldn’t go back and edit my comment, but I just wanted to add that I was once one of those white-hot progressives and Obama always left me lukewarm as dishwater. That said, even if I was still that way, I can’t imagine staying home, as a protest against his policies or otherwise.

  44. 44
    AB says:

    @El Tiburon: Your post is a straw-man. Nowhere was it mentioned that criticism was unimportant or equivalent to claiming that there was no difference between the parties.

  45. 45
    Observer says:

    When Republicans sweep to power in the next 48 hours, this site is a no sympathy zone. Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear.

    Geez, John, the electorate and the “dissenters” have been there, done that. 2000-2008. Or to be more precise, 2000-2006 for the House.

    We have seen the monster of wingnut rule and maybe people are looking for a stronger cure rather than this watered down liberal potion we currently have.

    Or maybe the electorate can’t see the differences between the two parties because their view is blocked by the person in front of them in the unemployment line.

    Either way, bad choices all around.

  46. 46
    Svensker says:

    @LarsThorwald:

    Sing it, Lars. With the voice of Odin!

    Also, too, what you said.

  47. 47
    geg6 says:

    @some other guy:

    Go fuck yourself, asshole.

    You and your buddies seem to think (and have continually been claiming right here the last few days) that you are the only activists and GOTVers in the entire Democratic coalition. YOU AREN’T, so get over yourselves. I’ve been a party activist and worked hard on every campaign since 1976. Over that time, I’ve made hundreds of thousands of phone calls, knocked on tens of thousands of doors, hung tens of thousand of door knockers and posters and yard signs, and given my hard earned and not-so-affordable dollars to Democratic candidates. I have done it with liberal pragmatists, young people, peace and women’s and civil rights groups, and MOSTLY with union members. Very few are the people you claim are the backbone of the party and that are the only reliable party activists. Most stand exactly where I stand (get done what you can, what is politically possible, and keep pushing for more and better), not with the FDLers and GOS diarists and manic and professionals “progressives.”

    You aren’t the only Democrats, you aren’t the only Dems out there, and you aren’t even the best Democrats.

  48. 48
    DBrown says:

    Uh, Martin, relative to using local wells to dump radioactive waste (even a few miles down (figure that cost times a hundred)), have you ever heard of ground water? You can not drill below that level using drilling tech we have today and yes, at many sites such dumping would quickly allow the waste to get into the ground water,and far too soon the local drinking water would be hot (even many, many miles away.) That idea is like using a microwave to dry a wet cat.

  49. 49
    Socraticsilence says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    A sick part of me can’t wait until the GOP re-takes the Senate (at this point its 2012-2020- at that point the demographic shift means they’ve either consolidated power or they will never re-take the Senate in the current GOP configuration)- just wait for the “Despite being voted for by an overwhelming majority-say 55 votes- Bill X died today due to Democratic obstructionism and the Democrat parties abuse of the Filibuster.”

  50. 50
    Dave L says:

    @Violet: I understand your argument here; all I’m claiming is that the Republicans would in fact have to produce a budget, no? What possible excuse could they offer for not doing that? I’m pretty sure this is in even the Tea Party edition of the Constitution.

  51. 51
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @El Tiburon:

    In essence, the argument seems to be if you criticize to loudly you reap what you sow.

    Why does everyone miss the point? The relevant statement is this:

    Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties

    I criticize my kids all the time, but I don’t say that they are no better than the kids two doors down whose parents let them skate by on barely passing.

    For one thing, I praise my kids when they do well.

  52. 52
    El Cid says:

    I do not in any way assume that after two years of Republican rule / blockage of governance that the ‘American people’ (i.e., of the majority of people who turn out to vote) will then learn the lessons we prefer and be like 2006 / 2008 and turn out to elect Democrats.

    It’s entirely possible that such a group becomes even more supportive of lunatic reactionaries, no matter what the sensible assumptions about who likely will turn out in 2012 as a Presidential election. Or even that Obama is a lock for re-election.

    We might see a return to the Republican tetrumvirate (?), of the Presidency, both House & Senate, and of course their control of the Supreme Court.

    I really wouldn’t be surprised if my idiot fellow Americans ignore whatever lessons we think they ought clearly learn and vote instead to just chuck this nation the rest of the way down the sewer so that we can finally have a nation like the 1970s South American juntas / 1890s robber-baron governments right wingers prefer anyway. They’ll have a trillion or quadrillion dollars worth of ads by the Foundation for Real American Small Business Soldier Hero to Stop Immigration to help them out.

    I’m not saying such a scenario is the most likely response, but it’s a clear possibility no matter how many get out the vote programs are launched on Wednesday right up until November of 2012 and however disciplined Democrats and liberals immediately proclaim themselves to remain on message and professing of loyalty. Nothing is a given.

  53. 53
    matoko_chan says:

    @Cole….in fact….we might see cap-n-trade in the lame duck session… and then for the next two years Obama tries valiantly to force immigration reform through the House. Truly an epic carnival, with the congresscritters trying to pander to hispanics and latinos while the wingnut base chews them new assholes. Great Republican Hope Marco Rubio’s career could be permanently compromised.
    Many opportunities for snarky posts.
    And the GOP leadership will now try to take down Palin.
    That is going to be mad fun.
    COD was their wakeup call.

    Lets vote on our favorite signs!
    I liked the I AM NOT A COYOTE sign the bestest.
    :)

  54. 54
    mr. whipple says:

    But to insinuate blame on progressives or liberals who criticize this administration and Congress for the same bullshit that the Republicans pull are to somehow blame for a Republican victory is horseshit.

    I don’t blame liberal/left bloggers for critique. I do blame them for relentless criticism of Democrats without balance and for failing to educate their readers.

    For instance, almost 50% of Democrats believe that their taxes have gone up since Obama took office. Yet, rarely, if ever, have I seen left bloggers refute this nonsense. I also never read about the myriad of tax credits passed by Dems that are very helpful for small businesses and individuals.

    A similar proportion believes that the stim didn’t create jobs. Yet, if you read LW blogs you would be under the impression is was a huge failure. They could have focused on the positive, yet choose to dwell on the negative. All.the.time.

  55. 55
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @El Tiburon: Is there any proof that this “calling out” actually succeeds in moving the infamous Overton Window? My sense is that, although it’s unfair for this to be the case, criticism from the left _never_ succeeds in moving discussion to the left. On the other hand, criticism from the right _does_ succeed in moving discussion to the right. I don’t know exactly why that’s the dynamic, but it is, and my best guess is that there are too few people on “the left” for any actual politician to care very much what we think. That, and the hangover from the 1968 Democratic convention that still afflicts the middle-aged national media.

  56. 56
    Socraticsilence says:

    @mr. whipple:

    Its almost as bad as the “Obama tripled the deficit” schpiel- you know the one that cites FY 2009- not realizing that Obama’s budget doesn’t go into effect until FY 2010 (for obvious reasons- I mean its a little hard to have your budget be the thing that all federal spending is guided by when at the earliest a budget is passed in april-may).

  57. 57
    merrinc says:

    @LarsThorwald:

    Brilliant rant – spot on. I hope John remembers it the next time he’s selecting front pagers because if my blood pressure’s going to be hiked from reading political commentary, I prefer it be for the right reasons.

  58. 58
    Julia Grey says:

    @Violet:

    WHY does ANYONE think the Republicans will “have to” do anything at all? The Republicans have one goal: Make Obama a one term president. The less they accomplish and the worse the economy is, the better for them.

    +1,000

  59. 59
    matoko_chan says:

    @El Cid: cheer up! the demographic timer is going to prevent that from happening.
    in 2020 non-hispanic cauc becomes an electoral minority…and forevah defeat becomes a republican reality waaaaaaay before that.
    unless the GOP can begin to be something other than the old white christian party they are demographically doomed….1/3 of non-hispanic caucs consistently vote democratic.
    In 2008 for the first time non-hispanic cauc became a minority in the children-under-five demographic.
    i dont see any signs of the right being able to attract darkskinned votes.
    Do you?

  60. 60
    lacp says:

    @El Cid: Yeah, if they drop the born-in-America requirement by 2012, we might have an opportunity to vote for Vladimir Putin.

  61. 61
    Oscar Leroy says:

    Democrats and the Obama administration have shown a willingness to compromise on the issue

    Oh, I think that pretty much goes without saying at this point.

    Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties

    He wrote, after pointing out himself that Democrats are perfectly willing to do what Republicans want.

    you don’t have Rahm to kick around any more

    http://www.mediaite.com/online.....ning-tour/

    That guy is SUCH a great politician. How will our country survive without him?

  62. 62
    PurpleGirl says:

    @Jonathan: Ah, the waste won’t be moving to Nevada for a while. In the time since Yucca Mountain was first proposed as a waste site, numerous states have enacted local laws banning the transport of waste across their state by truck or train or mandating a method of shipment. It will still be a major problem to get the waste to Nevada.

  63. 63
    El Cid says:

    The Guardian’s Gary Younge interviews on video a panel of the Old Farts Club (their name), many of whom are loudly proclaiming the need to take up arms against the government if Obama is allowed to continue on his path, and that he’s un-Constitutional and we’re heading toward tyranny. TruPatriots all.

  64. 64
    WyldPirate says:

    @El Tiburon:

    But to insinuate blame on progressives or liberals who criticize this administration and Congress for the same bullshit that the Republicans pull are to somehow blame for a Republican victory is horseshit.
    It does no good to have Democrats in power without a strong and critical voice from the left trying to pull them back to the left.
    In essence, the argument seems to be if you criticize to loudly you reap what you sow. This is the biggest goddamn bunch of horseshit. The inverse, that if we all sang kumbaya while giving reach-arounds with a smile that the Republicans wouldn’t be in this position? Again, bull—fucking-shit. That is a naive and simplistic view.

    This. Much of the criticism Obama has received from the left has been justified. But that’s not the real point. The mainstream Dems and Obama act and appear weak and appear to lack any conviction.

    The Rethugs have painted whatever Obama proposes to do–and will no matter what–as the worst looming disaster in US history. He’s an Islamschulistfascist, that’s going to pay reparations to slaves and to Kenya right before he cedes our freedom to Indonesian Muslim elementary school classmates.

    If you’re going to get accused of that sort of shit, and you know that “compromising” or “moving to the center” isn’t going to stem the cacophony of inanity from the Right, why compromise with half-measures,; sell out to drug companies in the health care reform, protect bank execs jobs and bonuses while bailing out banks without doing much of squat to deal with the fraud; keep wasting resources on worthless wars and a host of other things that –while all the while ridiculing many of the people that help elect you in the first place?

    Why play off the DFH’s and leftwing of the party as the foil and treat them like the religious right?

    Those on the far left that criticize Obama’s administration are not the cause of this upcoming bloodbath. The cause is the half-measures Obama took on the economy by not being BOLD ENOUGH and for doing a shit job for losing control of the message, specifically with health care and the economy.

  65. 65
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @El Cid: The thing that worries me is that I just don’t think Republicans care anymore about doing anything that actually serves or even pleases the public. They’re just dicks, and they run on being dicks, and enough people like their attitude that they’re willing to vote them in just for spite. Democrats have, at least in my memory, been very concerned, almost to the point of paralysis, about what the people think of them. They’re extremely sensitive to criticism and flinch a lot. Republicans can’t be moved by criticism. They’ve concluded that even if they’re reduced to record low levels of support, they can still be dicks, and that’s enough. And enough voters are willing to endorse a stance of toughness and fuck-you-ness over any actual policy that there will always be enough Republicans in office to fuck with the government. If you can vote against a fund for 9/11 first responders and face no outcry, you can get away with anything. And they’ve really only just realized this, and their fangs are glistening.

  66. 66
    El Cid says:

    @matoko_chan: It’s a long time ’til 2010, and demographics don’t predict everything. There’s plenty of time to permanently hobble the nation between now & then. I’m not saying such things aren’t possible or even likely.

  67. 67

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ: Actually, I know quite a bit about the Mesolithic. I have to teach it every year!

    Don’t forget about Motel of the mysteries. They’ll know about our ritual adornment. Also, too.

    (ps: I don’t post often at BJ, but I’ve changed pseudonym because i’ve sucked it up and started a blog that i want to be totally not linked to my real name or personal email. Just think of my as your friendly socialist expat archaeologist)

  68. 68
    matoko_chan says:

    @Julia Grey: i think O will now focus on immigration reform. that will make refuglican oppo look bad to a burgeoning latino/hispanic demographic.
    the media luffs conflict– it will be like free votes in 2012.
    Douthat the Concern Troll is already on it–

    In the long term, certainly, the slow-but-steady growth of the Latino vote offers a big opportunity for the Democrats. (And in the long term, the Republican Party’s growing reputation as the party of, well, advertisements like these bodes ill for its ability to offer a demographically-inclusive conservatism.) But the Obama White House needs to play for 2012, not 2028, and in 2012 there’s little reason to think that the gains from mobilizing Hispanics around an (almost certainly futile) immigration reform push will count for all that much.

    oooh pleeez Massa Douthat! Done throw we’s inta that thar mean ol’ briar patch! heh.

    and the war between the teabaggers and the GOP elites over Palin is going to be EPIC!

  69. 69
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @WyldPirate:

    If you’re going to get accused of that sort of shit, and you know that “compromising” or “moving to the center” isn’t going to stem the cacophony of inanity from the Right, why compromise with half-measures,; sell out to drug companies in the health care reform, protect bank execs jobs and bonuses while bailing out banks without doing much of squat to deal with the fraud
    __
    The cause is the half-measures Obama took on the economy by not being BOLD ENOUGH and for doing a shit job for losing control of the message, specifically with health care and the economy.

    CONSERVATIVE DEMOCRATS won’t allow anything to get done any. Other. Way. It’s really not hard to understand. There aren’t enough liberals in the party to get away with being “bold.” That’s the answer. I don’t know why people refuse to accept that. It seems obvious.

  70. 70
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @LarsThorwald:

    Unemployment? Republicans don’t have a plan, beyond pledges to institute greater tax cuts and a reliance on a demonstrably debunked supply-side economic model.

    Okay, what is Obama’s plan to fight unemployment? He gave billions to Wall Street in hopes they would create jobs. How is that not supply-side economics? But we should expect no less from a man who expresses such admiration for Ronald Reagan.

    http://openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=3263

    Decreasing the gap in income inequality? Republicans reject even the notion of income disparity as a problem

    “First of all, I know both those guys,” Obama said. “They’re very savvy businessmen. And I, like most of the American people, don’t begrudge people success or wealth. That’s part of the free market system.”

    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....6337.shtml

  71. 71
    john b says:

    If you’re going to get accused of that sort of shit, and you know that “compromising” or “moving to the center” isn’t going to stem the cacophony of inanity from the Right, why compromise with half-measures

    because not all democrats are from liberal districts nor are they all liberals. and moving to the center occasionally DOES get their votes.

  72. 72
    MeDrewNotYou says:

    Democrats aren’t getting my vote because Barack Obama didn’t personally call me and/or visit me on my birthday. No previous president ever did it either, but I thought there was going to be change I could believe in.

  73. 73
    some other guy says:

    @mr. whipple:

    For instance, almost 50% of Democrats believe that their taxes have gone up since Obama took office.

    Seriously, though, whose fault is this? Hyperbolic bloggers who have a few thousand loyal followers, or a mass media with tens of millions of viewers/readers– a media that fails time and again to correct the record when Republican operatives openly lie and mislead about Obama and Dem accomplishments over the last two years?

    I honestly don’t care that some diarist on Kos thinks Obama is a sell-out, or that Jane Hamsher thinks all Obama supporters are misogynists. I don’t read their crap, nor do any of my friends, or my parents, or my grandparents, or the vast majority of people who are going to turnout tomorrow, so I find all the petty sniping, whining, and finger-pointing at the “professional Left” (whatever that is) ridiculous.

  74. 74
    El Cid says:

    @FlipYrWhig: The right always has the ultra-crazy fundamentalist semi-fascist (real fascists were much more sensible, albeit evil) 28%, and all you ever have to do is add enough voters to win any election. I disagree that Democrats always worry about what ‘people’ think — they do not wish to appear to be going too strongly up against the most powerful and wealthiest interests in the country either. This is not some sort of controversial statement, either.

  75. 75
    liberal says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Here’s a pro-tip: the longer lasting isotopes of high-level rad waste persist for geologically significant spans of time.

    I believe that, but what I’ve wondered about for awhile is what the impact of this stuff is. Meaning, say water gets into it. Are we talking about making the surface of the continent extremely radioactive? (Sounds doubtful.) Mass mutations a la the neighborhood of Chernobyl? A few mutations and a slight increase in cancer rates (I’m not just referring to humans here)?

  76. 76
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @General Stuck:

    “I got called a bigot last night on this blog for saying the watb progressive pro lefters had “thick skulls” and “mush” for brains.”

    That reminds me of when people like you said I was a sexist pig for saying President Obama should have been lobbying for DADT repeal instead of calling the WNBA champions to congratulate them.

  77. 77
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear.

    There won’t be any “wingnut rule”, all the consequential decisions will still be in the hands of the White House and tipping point senators. The House can do what they did in the 90s if they so choose, making a clown show out of government, but they won’t be able to jam through a ban on abortion or enormous tax cuts for the wealthy or the baker’s dozen of Constitutional amendments they are in love with. They won’t be able to nominate Supreme Court justices or start a war with Iran. Nothing other than “I love Israel” proclamations can get done without the President’s nod, so calm yourself.

  78. 78
    NobodySpecial says:

    @General Stuck: What would you be pissed off about, troll? I mean, since you’ve admitted that all you like to do around here is poke folks with sticks, what do you care what someone else posts on here?

  79. 79
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @LarsThorwald:

    The problem is that I have two kids, and I don’t want them growing up in a world that looks, at worst, like 1930s Germany.

    So I’m going to go out on a limb and say you don’t want the president to be able to lock up people in prison forever without a trial, listen in on any phone conversation he wants without a warrant, and kill any American he wants without a trial. Is that a safe statement to make?

  80. 80
    El Cid says:

    @WyldPirate:

    If you’re going to get accused of that sort of shit, and you know that “compromising” or “moving to the center” isn’t going to stem the cacophony of inanity from the Right, why compromise with half-measures,; sell out to drug companies in the health care reform, protect bank execs jobs and bonuses while bailing out banks without doing much of squat to deal with the fraud; keep wasting resources on worthless wars and a host of other things that—while all the while ridiculing many of the people that help elect you in the first place?

    I never viewed such moves as primarily political in nature (i.e., ‘moving to the center’), but in aiming for compromises with the powerful and wealthy interests whom Democrats do not wish to strongly alienate — although at present even their tepid reforms (from what should logically be the POV of the super-rich and ultra-powerful), these groups have grown so used to complete ass-kissing that they’re all believing that Obama has thrown them in chains and beaten them about the head & hands.

  81. 81
    matoko_chan says:

    @El Cid: well the founders&framers planned for that. Like President Washington said the Senate is the saucer that cools the hot tea of the House.
    Little did they know, haw haw!
    But all they can do is obfusticate.
    they can’t repeal healthcare, they can’t craft legislation and get it passed. I personally think the 11D chess move is to keep them fighting immigration reform and try to pass some deficit reduction.
    their base will get crankier and older and whiter and deader.

    and the demographic timer goes tick…..tick…..tick…..

  82. 82
    Mnemosyne says:

    @mr. whipple:

    For instance, almost 50% of Democrats believe that their taxes have gone up since Obama took office. Yet, rarely, if ever, have I seen left bloggers refute this nonsense. I also never read about the myriad of tax credits passed by Dems that are very helpful for small businesses and individuals.
    __
    A similar proportion believes that the stim didn’t create jobs. Yet, if you read LW blogs you would be under the impression is was a huge failure. They could have focused on the positive, yet choose to dwell on the negative. All.the.time.

    QFT. If you listen to people like El Tiburon, you would think that absolutely nothing of worth had been done in the past two years and it was all just Democratic FAIL from start to finish. And then they sneer that we shouldn’t blame them if people on the left believe what they’re selling, because that’s all the Democrats’ fault, too! If the Democrats were just better at selling their agenda, no one would listen to the lefty whiners!

  83. 83
    Bender says:

    Once again, the Voting Public according to Ball Juicers:

    Voters in 2004: Stupid idiot racists who love torture.
    Voters in 2006: Rational actors against failure.
    Voters in 2008: Wise, post-racial geniuses.
    Voters in 2010: Stupid insane racists.

    Pass the popcorn. Dem-ocalypse, she approaches.

    “Punish your enemies!” — Barack Obama

  84. 84
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @El Cid:

    I disagree that Democrats always worry about what ‘people’ think—they do not wish to appear to be going too strongly up against the most powerful and wealthiest interests in the country either.

    But part of the reason for that IMHO is that some of them worry about being derided as bad for business and class-warriors and such. My impression is that Democratic politicians as a general rule talk themselves out of doing anything that could bring down vociferous criticism… and in the era of Fox News everything can… so they can talk themselves out of doing anything. In certain cases they can correct course and do something anyway, but they really do fear criticism as a default position. And Republicans don’t.

  85. 85
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @AB:

    “Your post is a straw-man. Nowhere was it mentioned that criticism was unimportant”

    Hilarious! For someone to say with a straight face that this blog takes kindly to leftist criticism of the Obama administration is just too funny.

  86. 86
    sven says:

    @El Cid:
    You mock The Foundation for Real American Small Business Soldier Heroes to Stop Immigration but fail to address any of the important points their ads have raised. Typical. Without TFRASBSHSI the public wouldn’t know the damning truth about what Sasha and Malia wore this Halloween.

  87. 87
    WyldPirate says:

    @john b:

    because not all democrats are from liberal districts nor are they all liberals. and moving to the center occasionally DOES get their votes

    And just how is that working out for them, sport?

    Those tax cuts they included in the stimulus did what when every study ever done has shown tax cuts to be the most ineffective form of stimulus going? Think an extra 200+ billion on direct spoending or broadening unemployment or actually doing cram down for the housng market might not have been more effective?

    The point is that they capitulated and it makes them look week. You see the Dems running AWA from their best work. They are buying into the “slash the deficit” BS. They capitulate.

    Many people see the Dems as being spineless. They need to quit acting like it.

  88. 88
    Davis X. Machina says:

    Spent last night reading about the collapse of the Front Populaire in 1936 in Sheri Berman’s The Primacy of Politics: Social Democracy and the Making of Europe’s Twentieth Century.

    We have all been here before.

  89. 89
    Mike R. says:

    Overused but topical adages: “Elections have consequences” and “you get who you vote for”. Nevada and America will choose tomorrow and if the choices include some of the dumbest fuckers ever to walk the planet then we can reasonable expect to see some of the dumbest fucking legislation in history. How this country became so fucking stupid is beyond me but one look at the morons who spew epic stupidity on Fox News helps to explain it. Somehow this will be Harry Reid’s fault if it happens. If the people of Nevada can be convinced to vote for Sharon Angle, they can be convinced of anything. God save us.

  90. 90
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Oscar Leroy:

    That reminds me of when people like you said I was a sexist pig for saying President Obama should have been lobbying for DADT repeal instead of calling the WNBA champions to congratulate them.

    Yeah, what was he doing when he took five minutes to call a bunch of guuuurrllls instead of doing important work? It’s not like they’re a real sports team, amirite?

  91. 91
    General Stuck says:

    The old political adage, or not so old, of “it’s the economy stupid” will generally keep the electorate, or the middle and independent swing voter population willing to support either side, depending on current conditions of any given election.

    Much of the CW for this one revolves around dems not recovering the deep recession fast enough, especially for creating new jobs. I think this is understandable, if albeit naive and wreaking of childish impatience, but the large lead in likely voters the wingers have compiled in polls right up to election day, seems to me a sign that something else is at play, in addition to economic concerns.

    We have noted here on this blog, as have many other left and right leaning blogs and other media, the rapidly changing demographics in this country, led by minorities of color, and likely favoring dems. It has seemed obvious to me, this is the prime motivator behind the teatard movement, and also reflected in the strategy of the GOP braintrust, such as it is. But I wouldn’t be at all surprised, if at least subconsciously, it is also motivating white voters in general to lean toward the white party Republicans. Or, xenophobia of the masses, specifically related to who rules this country via one man one vote. I don’t know if that is happening, and only time will tell. But racial fear and anxiety, and loss of, or fearing loss of control by more whites than just the 28 percenter crowd, could well trump any other concern of voters, even the health, or unhealth of the economy, and the all important bank account. If that is true, then past ideas and trends for voting and elections in this country is out the window, and a nihilistic race for the cliffs based on primal racial fear, may well rule this empire into the dustbin of history.

  92. 92
    Comrade Dread says:

    I’m not entirely convinced that we’ll have a Republican Renaissance that everyone is predicting.

    I realize I’m probably just in denial, since I can’t imagine that a majority of Americans simultaneously believe that the economy is the Republicans fault and yet will vote to give them another chance to fix it.

    But I suppose if they are that stupid, stock up on rice and beans, and buy yourself a nice tent while you still have a middle class job.

    Should probably learn Hindi and/or Mandarian too for when you’re sent overseas to train your replacement.

  93. 93
    mr. whipple says:

    @some other guy:

    Seriously, though, whose fault is this? Hyperbolic bloggers who have a few thousand loyal followers, or a mass media with tens of millions of viewers/readers—a media that fails time and again to correct the record when Republican operatives openly lie and mislead about Obama and Dem accomplishments over the last two years?

    It was my impression that one of the reasons bloggers got involved with politics on the internet was to provide a type of alternate media wherein they could disseminate the truth and set the record straight. This is a basic function. If they don’t provide it, who will?

    Bloggers were invited to the WH to help try to spread the word that the stim was working. They could have featured a story every freaking day for the last year about the admin putting people to work through some project or another. All it would have taken was a little bit of reporting.

    Instead, we got bitching it wasn’t big enuf, or critique about tactics, or stupid shit like hypothetical questions of IF the admin could have their dream pony how many sparkles would it have?

    Sadly, too many treat this as ‘clap harder’ when in fact there is a lot to be proud of with Obama and this last congress. Focusing on the negative is soul killing.

  94. 94
    General Stuck says:

    @Oscar Leroy:

    That reminds me of when people like you said I was a sexist pig for saying President Obama should have been lobbying for DADT repeal instead of calling the WNBA champions to congratulate them.

    That wasn’t me, because I routinely ignore anything you have to say about anything.

  95. 95
    wilfred says:

    I’m lost here. It’s either the fault of the Left for not supporting the Democrats or the fault of the Republicans for obstructing all the things that the Left would have wanted from Democratic control…only the Republicans obstructed it.

    Only now, it is the fault of the Left for allowing the Republicans to win, who will then rule in a way the Democrats never could because …they will have the support of the Left?

    Is that it? Or will they have a free hand because the Democrats will not try to obstruct things the way the Republicans did?

    And if that’s the case, and how it could be otherwise for the Republicans to be able to implement their agenda, then how is the Left wrong for not supporting the current slate of Democrats?

    Beats me. But for self-pity, John’s post takes the Kleenex.

  96. 96
    General Stuck says:

    @NobodySpecial:

    Poor baby. Feeling wounded this morn. Have a pill and grab your hanky for a good cry and you will feel better. promise.

  97. 97
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Apparently Oscar thinks that having the NHL champions actually visit the White House and meet the president was right and proper and as things should be, but the president calling — eeeewww! — girls to congratulate them was just a waste of his valuable time.

    Gosh, Oscar, I can’t see why anyone would think this meme from you would be sexist.

  98. 98
    matoko_chan says:

    @Bender: voters in 2012– sane humans against Palin
    :)

  99. 99
    merrinc says:

    @matoko_chan:

    You’re basing this on the assumption that the Republicans will allow brown people to vote. I wouldn’t be too sure about that.

    The coast to coast cries of OMG, VOTER FRAUD! we’ve been hearing for the last week – when they’re projected to fucking win – is merely a harbinger of some very, very scary shit to come.

  100. 100
    dianne says:

    @LarsThorwald:
    You nailed it. The reason there were so many boomers at
    Stewart’s rally was for their kids and grandkids. If we were Repubs, we wouldn’t care about the generations to come.
    The reason they keep saying no problems for the over 55 crowd is they think it will make it all ok. It’s not ok – we want the same quality of life for our kids as we have had.
    I, too, live in a blue state and am close to the end of my working career and could easily let them all choke on their stupidity but my kids deserve better.
    I saw the most heart wrenching picture the other day. A big, beefy college baseball player, weeping into his t shirt over the closure of the baseball program at UC Davis. We have failed these kids. Their parents were the recepients of a first class educational system and they decided (thanks to prop 13) their own kids did not deserve the same. We didn’t fight for them like we should have. And we won’t get a second chance.

  101. 101
    El Cid says:

    Congratulations to Workers Party candidate and former rebel against the past right wing sub-fascist Brazilian coup governments (just a few decades ago) Dilma Roussef to being elected not only the first female President of Brazil but for carrying forward the immensely anti-poverty, pro-independence government of Lula da Silva.

    One minor funny — opposition candidate Jose Serra ran in part on such right wing hawkish foreign that he was dubbed “Serra Palin” in a Brazilian newspaper.

  102. 102
    Tom Q says:

    @Oscar Leroy: My god — you’re right! Obama is Hitler! Why didn’t I see it before?

    The Dance of the Trolls continues.

  103. 103
    matoko_chan says:

    @Cole this should cheer you up!
    the new Brazilian President IS a female marxist guerrilla!
    sweet!

  104. 104
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @mr. whipple:

    “I don’t blame liberal/left bloggers for critique. I do blame them for relentless criticism of Democrats without balance and for failing to educate their readers.”

    I’m glad we got that straightened out.

    “For instance, almost 50% of Democrats believe that their taxes have gone up since Obama took office. Yet, rarely, if ever, have I seen left bloggers refute this nonsense. ”

    It’s too bad those liberal bloggers made people unaware of Obama’s tax cuts.

    The administration likes to brag that the stimulus was comprised substantially of tax cuts. They designed the tax cut to release slowly and be completely invisible to the people receiving it. This, they hoped, would make people spend more of the money. It’s hard to say if it worked (Jared Bernstein convinced me that survey data isn’t enough to say it didn’t work). But politically, it’s left only one out of 10 Americans aware that the Obama administration lowered their taxes.

    from Ezra Klein

    “A similar proportion believes that the stim didn’t create jobs. Yet, if you read LW blogs you would be under the impression is was a huge failure.”

    Government can’t replace — can’t create jobs to replace the millions that we lost in the recession, but it can create the conditions for small businesses to hire more people, through steps like tax breaks.

    Guess who said that? Here’s a hint:

    http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-.....s-jobs-act

  105. 105
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @WyldPirate: You’re not wrong. But you need to educate “centrist” and “conservative” Democrats about why they’re stupid, then. Because they _are_ extremely, extremely stupid. But without their votes you get bupkes, and they don’t see it your way, and they got what they wanted. They think it works as a method of getting elected or reelected to stick it to the librulz and enforce “fiscal discipline.” You’ll need to change their minds about that. And just being _right_ isn’t enough. That’s what we’re dealing with here.

  106. 106
    Bender says:

    @matoko_chan:

    Could be. If I could predict 2012, I could make a zillion dollars.

    Maybe, Voters in 2012: Right/Left united against Xorgon invaders?

  107. 107
    General Stuck says:

    the new Brazilian President IS a female marxist guerrilla!

    That is so fucking Hot!!

  108. 108
    Johnny Coelacanth says:

    Speaking as a Nevadan, please don’t wish that on me. I’ve already voted for Reid and Titus and I can only hope that Angle is too batshit for the average, low-information voter. If the Hispanic population turns out anywhere near ’08 numbers, Reid has this. Angle has come out in support of Arizona’s fucked up immigration law, and put her foot deep into it in front of a group of Hispanic kids a couple of weeks ago. I’m wavering between guarded optimism and ‘fuck this country, we deserve what we get.’ We’ll see.

  109. 109
    matoko_chan says:

    oops el cid got there first.
    i bow to your superior latino/hispanic chops O Castillean Knight.
    :)
    the wingnuts are going to FREAK OUT.

  110. 110
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Oscar Leroy:

    Government can’t replace—can’t create jobs to replace the millions that we lost in the recession, but it can create the conditions for small businesses to hire more people, through steps like tax breaks.

    How is that not correct? Government can’t on its own replace ALL the millions of of jobs that we lost, but government can create the conditions that generate private sector jobs.

    He’s not saying (government can’t create jobs) to replace the millions that we lost, he’s saying government can’t create (jobs to replace the millions that we lost). It’s a question of scale.

    I don’t know why people are intent on reading that as a terrible statement.

  111. 111
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @Tom Q:

    Me: “President Obama wants to be able to detain people indefinitely without habeus corpus, and to kill Americans without due process.”

    Tom Q: “Zzzzzzzz! Who cares about that? Get lost, troll!”

    This blog is hi-la-rious.

  112. 112
    matoko_chan says:

    @Bender: an invasion from space is the only thing that could protect the right from forevah defeat once the demographic timer goes off.
    of course Palin is your 2012 candidate– who else you got?
    in case you didnt notice……Romney is a MORMON.
    /giggles behind hand

  113. 113
    James K. Polk, Esq. says:

    Firebaggers get the insults because they continuously advance bad faith arguments. To wit:

    The cause is the half-measures Obama took on the economy by not being BOLD ENOUGH and for doing a shit job for losing control of the message, specifically with health care and the economy.

    BULLY PULPIT. Never mind that Congress is writing the fucking laws.

    Still, everyone knows the mass media is the problem, and not the “professional left”. The fact that it is in the media’s best interests to lie and deceive for controversy and advertisement profits means the rabbit hole is a lot fucking deeper than we want to admit to ourselves.

  114. 114
    john b says:

    @Oscar Leroy:

    i don’t know what blog you’ve been reading. but i certainly can recognize civil liberties abuses on the obama administration side as well as notice the disastrous domestic / foreign / civil rights / etc policy on the right.

    my solution is to campaign for democrats and donate to the ACLU.

  115. 115
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Here is exactly why I posted that quote: before someone blames a liberal tree-hugger blogger like me for the American public not believing the government stimulus didn’t create enough jobs. . . maybe they should look at the president saying that government spending can not create enough jobs. That is, I think more people listen to the president than to me.

    If you don’t mind what the president said there, that’s fine. But don’t blame me if Joe Sixpack hears that on the news and thinks to himself “Huh, the president just said government spending can’t fix this recession. So what was that stimulus thing for?!?!?”

  116. 116
    Tom Q says:

    @Oscar Leroy: Okay, I’ll say it slow, so you understand:

    When someone references 1930s Germany, given all the things the GOP has done over the past decade, for your first reaction to be, I found something Obama’s done that I can vaguely analogize to the Nazi regime, I say you are a) a moral idiot and b) a troll.

    Up till now, I’d have said “change” was a dumber poster, but with this you give me pause.

  117. 117
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @john b:

    Good. The ACLU does yeoman’s work. That’s a good organization to support.

  118. 118
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Oscar Leroy: Oh noes! A guy holed up in Yemen may eventually be killed rather than arrested if the military tries to take him! My precious civil liberties, do I still have them?

  119. 119
    Keith G says:

    @Dave L:

    I understand your argument here; all I’m claiming is that the Republicans would in fact have to produce a budget, no?

    They will produce a budget that is ideologically pure. They then will spend a lot of time posing with that purity during negotiations in the Senate.

    What happens next depends on who the House Republican leaders are and how much sway they have over the Teabag voting bloc. It also depends on who leads the Senate and the nature of that majority. Hard to tell what that’s going to be, but it will be (painfully?) interesting.

  120. 120
    catclub says:

    @some other guy:
    “Careful! You’re depressing my turnout! ”

    VPR?

  121. 121
    El Cid says:

    @matoko_chan:

    an invasion from space is the only thing that could protect the right from forevah defeat once the demographic timer goes off

    People seem unwilling to consider the possibility of a new right which doesn’t alienate itself from Latino voters. Say, a Latino-based right wing movement. These things are quite possible, even if we don’t see signs of it yet.

  122. 122
    Kryptik says:

    @Johnny Coelacanth:

    Your naivete is almost cute, thinking that Real Nevadans are going to dare let those swarthy brown folk vote like they were Americans. I mean, don’t you know that they could be ILLEGALS?! Better to ban them all then let one illegal in, that’s what I say!!

    (but seriously, you better hope that the disenfranchisement bug doesn’t decide to rear its ugly head en masse there. For all our sakes)

  123. 123
    harlana says:

    Seems lost on some of the folks here who seem to enjoy the idea of a republican led Congress that many people will suffer and/or die as a result of their callousness towards the middle class, working poor and just plain disabled people who have done nothing to deserve their condition except being born weaker, physically and/or mentally, than others. I’m sorry to be so melodramatic, but that’s just the way I feel and I don’t believe the stimulus was big enough because unemployment is still way too high with no end in sight.

    As I have said before, I am grateful for the crumbs I do get and will get in the way of health insurance reform , but most people cannot subsist on crumbs for very long. I cannot imagine what my life would be like if I did not have a supportive family to help me as I constantly look for work. It just feels like if radical reform does not take place, we will always be stretching and reaching for the life raft that will always remain just barely out of our reach until we sink.

  124. 124
    Erikthe Red says:

    When Republicans sweep to power in the next 48 hours, this site is a no sympathy zone. Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear. There will be no sympathy here. Have fun, protest people. Now you really have something to protest about, and you don’t have Rahm to kick around any more.

    Just for the record, John, I will not be one of those making those kinds of complaints.

    Anyone who can’t see a difference by now has problems, IMO.

  125. 125
    WyldPirate says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    This video from Maddow’s show the other day shows the denial that Obama, Reid and the rest of the “”centrists” in the party are in by buying into the “centrist lunacy”.

    The centrist lunacy is why we are seeing what we are seeing today. Most of the seats we are going to lose in the house were marginal anyway. It is an education thing, but when your teachers buy the propaganda (cutting the deficit and austerity when all evidence historical dictates the opposite) and are clearly having auditory hallucinations, then there is no merit in helping the “enemy” succede.

  126. 126
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Oscar Leroy:

    maybe they should look at the president saying that government spending can not create enough jobs. That is, I think more people listen to the president than to me.

    Um, he didn’t say that, he rather clearly said that government spending stimulates the creation of private sector jobs. And people actually prefer that method of job creation, it seems. I personally think it’s stupid and that the government should just hire people directly, but for some reason that’s politically anathema.

    If you don’t mind what the president said there, that’s fine. But don’t blame me if Joe Sixpack hears that on the news and thinks to himself “Huh, the president just said government spending can’t fix this recession. So what was that stimulus thing for??”

    Um, he didn’t even remotely say government spending can’t fix the recession, he said the government can’t create enough jobs on its own to fix the economy. You can’t create a sentence so perfect that people can’t willfully misinterpret it.

  127. 127
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @Tom Q:

    Someone else said they didn’t want this country to “look like” 1930s Germany. So I pointed out some things this country is doing right now that look like 1930s Germany. See what’s going on there?

    given all the things the GOP has done over the past decade

    You mean, locking up people indefinitely without a trial, or spying on private communications without a warrant? Saying that something is bad if Republicans do it but it’s alright if a Democrat does it is, well, moral idiocy.

    And if you think killing your own citizens without due process is “vaguely analogous” to what the Third Reich did, you need to pick up a history book.

  128. 128
    liberal says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    How is that not correct? Government can’t on its own replace ALL the millions of of jobs that we lost, but government can create the conditions that generate private sector jobs.

    Because
    (1) Given that we’re in a liquidity trap, government can borrow extremely cheaply right now (at least Uncle Sam can), and could have made up for a substantial fraction of the loss of aggregate demand;
    (2) The allusion to small business is just a throwaway line to the pastoral myth that only small business drives the economy and creates jobs
    (3) The allusion to tax breaks implies Obama is not talking about a traditional government Keynesian spending effort but rather things like tax cuts, which are relatively ineffectual.

    This is against a backdrop of the President’s economic team thinking their stim package was large enough, when e.g. Krugman predicted in advance that it wasn’t, and what the outcome would be. (That people would claim it failed, and that there’d be no chance.)

  129. 129
    El Tiburon says:

    @AB:

    Your post is a straw-man. Nowhere was it mentioned that criticism was unimportant or equivalent to claiming that there was no difference between the parties.

    Please. Cole, et al are infamous around here for bellyaching that those who criticize too loudly (see: Hamsher) are not helping the cause. Now, I understand that Cole’s argument is that Hamsher is wrong on many of her assumptions, and perhaps she is. But it could be that she is correct. Regardless, it is not Hamsher’s ‘unhinged attacks’ that have the Republicans on the precipice of taking back the House. It is not the fault of the left. It is the fault of the ridiculous media and the Republican’s strategy of “No”. I also fault Obama and the Democrats for doing a lousy job on messaging and completely dropping the ball on a lot of progressive ideals.

    @FlipYrWhig:

    On the other hand, criticism from the right does succeed in moving discussion to the right. I don’t know exactly why that’s the dynamic, but it is, and my best guess is that there are too few people on “the left” for any actual politician to care very much what we think.

    Three words: Media, Media, Media. The so-called ‘low-information’ voters get what little they know from the MSM, or from trickle-down from others who get their information from the MSM.

    All of us here know what good Obama has done. All of us here understand how disastrous Republican rule is going to be. We are the choir – no need to preach to us.

    So when the MSM treats the TeaBaggers with such respect and coverage while ignoring the multitude of progressive and liberal groups, then you know something is up.

    If you think about it, it is impressive that Democrats win anything considering the coverage they receive from the MSM. Look no further than Al Gore. He was vilified from day-one yet still won the Presidency.

  130. 130
    Anya says:

    This election is giving me a serious anxiety. I don’t remember ever feeling this anxious about anything. I want it to end. The idiots who vote in the crazy fuckers, deserve what they get. It’s just sad that their idiocy effects us all. Can we give the teatards and their sympathizers their own country? After this disaster of an election, I am ready for the United States of California.

  131. 131
    Person of Choler says:

    Dear Moderator, take heart, the Republicans may win the votes but they still have to prevail in the recounts. Miracles have happened. Remember the crates of ballots for Al Franken that materialized in Minnesota? The dead walk not only on Allhallows Eve, you know. Many ambient-temperature Democrats haunt polling places on the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November in even-numbered years.

    Don’t give up until the last chad is hung.

  132. 132
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @WyldPirate: Like I said, I agree ideologically with what you and Maddow are saying, and I think “centrist” political positions are self-defeating and dopey. But the fact remains that Democrats who make “centrist” noises get elected and reelected. So to stop them from believing that “centrism” is a smart political strategy and make them see that it’s as dumb as we think it is, you have to give them something else to grab onto.

    People who have studied baseball strategy will tell you that bunting is almost always a stupid thing to do, but managers keep on doing it because it feels right and because if they keep doing what feels right and conventional they’ll never get criticized for it. Same thing goes for “centrism.”

  133. 133
    liberal says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    …he rather clearly said that government spending stimulates the creation of private sector jobs.

    Nope. Right there in the quote is the reference to tax cuts for small business, not government spending that takes the form of contracts let out to small businesses.

  134. 134
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    “he didn’t say that, he rather clearly said that government spending stimulates the creation of private sector jobs.”

    Of course he said that. It’s right there in black-and-white.

    “I personally think it’s stupid and that the government should just hire people directly”

    I agree.

    @FlipYrWhig:

    “he didn’t even remotely say government spending can’t fix the recession, he said the government can’t create enough jobs on its own to fix the economy. ”

    Again, it’s right there in plain English. The only steps he listed that he thinks helps are tax cuts, loan incentives, etc.

  135. 135
    Marc says:

    Oscar et al: the basic problem is that the intensity of the criticism, and the obvious locus of the most intense dislike, is always towards the Demcrats.

    Do you want a good example? Try Eschaton.

    People not strongly engaged in politics would visit the useless shithead Duncan Black, for example, and just see an endless parade of bitching and moaning directed at Democrats. When called on it he bitches about hippie-punching and sneers about being asked to “clap louder”.

    And then he gets puzzled and every once in awhile posts “gee, people ask me whether I care about the Democrats winning. I’ll move for shitty over super-shitty”…and then he resumes the 24/7 attacks on Democrats.

    Any impact that he’s had over the past two years has been negative; he couldn’t have helped the republicans more if he had set out with the intention of doing so. He’s reinforced “democrats are awful” messages, taking for granted that of course the republicans are so bad that the real debate is angels vs. democrats, not democrats vs. republicans. The hippies thought that in the 60s too, and ended up with Nixon.

    If you have the brains that God gave to a chipmunk you’d figure out that you have to distinguish between friend and foe, better and worse. Endless soul-crushing sniping and moaning on the left has hurt progressive causes and served as an enabler of reactionary forces.

    Does that make things a bit more clear? Ask whether what you’ve done has hurt or helped; I’d say that Hamsher, Atrios, etc. have on net been harmful. It doesn’t excuse them at all that other things have been worse.

  136. 136
    liberal says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    But the fact remains that Democrats who make “centrist” noises get elected and reelected.

    Where’s your evidence for that?

    I’d counterargue that Democrats who make “centrist” noises get rewarded with cushy lobbying or other corporate jobs when they leave office, and that’s their motivation.

  137. 137
    WyldPirate says:

    @James K. Polk, Esq.:

    BULLY PULPIT. Never mind that Congress is writing the fucking laws.
    Still, everyone knows the mass media is the problem, and not the “professional left”. The fact that it is in the media’s best interests to lie and deceive for controversy and advertisement profits means the rabbit hole is a lot fucking deeper than we want to admit to ourselves.
    Reply

    Sure, this is a problem.

    But since it is such a huge problem–and the White House had to know it was a huge problem long ago—why did the messaging on Health Care Reform get so out of hand in aug 09?

    Because the counter message was non-existant to a large degree.

    that’s a damn big Bully Pulpit Obama has and he seemed to have trouble using it very well in a lot of areas.

  138. 138
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    “But the fact remains that Democrats who make “centrist” noises get elected and reelected. So to stop them from believing that “centrism” is a smart political strategy and make them see that it’s as dumb as we think it is, you have to give them something else to grab onto.”

    That is true. But that doesn’t mean centrists have to drive the agenda. An example: why should wishy-washy centrists like Harry Reid or Chuck Schumer be Senate majority leader? That’s like holding one hand behind your back. Centrists can be useful, if they know their place.

  139. 139
    Tom Q says:

    @Oscar Leroy: Yes, of course, you’re right. Designating ONE PERSON — who has decalred jihad against his country, is hiding out in countries from which he can’t be extradited, and hopes every day for the destruction of the US — designating that ONE PERSON as a target is exactly the same as what Hitler did.

    I deon’t know how young you are, but I suspect you have a lot of years ahead where every single elected official is going to be evil by your standards.

  140. 140
    liberal says:

    @Anya:

    After this disaster of an election, I am ready for the United States of California.

    Given that California gave us Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, and Prop. 13, I think your attitude here is questionable.

  141. 141
    Lurked says:

    @General Stuck:
    I am quite convinced that this is at least as much a “white backlash” election as a “bad economy” election. Speaking as a naive translucent-American, I was astonished and appalled at the explosion of racism after Obama was elected. I knew it was there but thought it was more casual, when in fact it’s deep and vicious. I can’t help but think that minority communities, especially African American, have noticed…I’m pretty sure they will show up in higher numbers than usual tomorrow for that reason.

    Didn’t something like 57% of whites vote for McCain?

    And while it’s certainly true that even after whites become a minority, they could suppress the votes of nonwhites for a while, that tends not to work over the long term. Ask the Afrikaaners about that. Of course the “long term” can be a long time indeed, and to quote J.M. Keynes, “in the long run we are all dead.” Also whites will remain a plurality for the indefinite future, so all the other minorities will have to not fight among themselves, but it can be done.

  142. 142
    Jager says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    The right “stays on message” they never waver, ever! That’s why the message sticks with the populace.

  143. 143
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @liberal: Show me one person in the general public who understands the phrase “liquidity trap.”

    At any rate, people like the idea of the government providing incentives for companies to hire people; they like it more than they like the idea of the government hiring directly. (I think that’s pretty dumb, but it’s the prevailing view, I say with great confidence.) So the statement makes sense: he isn’t using the government to make government jobs, he’s using the government to stimulate the creation of private-sector jobs, for instance via tax breaks. That’s what people want to hear about how “the government” “creates jobs.”

  144. 144
    Oscar Leroy says:

    @Tom Q:

    Oh, it’s just one person! I see now. My advice to you is to stop calling people “moral idiots”, just to save yourself from embarrassment.

  145. 145
    Phoenician in a time of Romans says:

    Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear.

    The problem with always supporting the lesser of two evils is that, at the end of the day, you’re still supporting evil.

  146. 146
    matoko_chan says:

    @El Cid: show me some data, Noble Campeador.
    i think the refuglicans are goin’ the way of the whigs. something will arise to take their place, but there is zero movement right now.
    The right cant stop themselves– racism is so deeply embedded in their low information base that they cant switch it off even when they need to…..even when the hammergun of the demographic timer is held to their head.
    Two years of Obama earnestly and valiantly pushing for immigration reform against republican obstructionism is going to destroy the GOP brand for hispanics like civil rights destroyed it for blacks.
    :)

  147. 147
    liberal says:

    @Marc:

    Endless soul-crushing sniping and moaning on the left has hurt progressive causes and served as an enabler of reactionary forces.

    I’d rather doubt it. I can’t speak about FDL, since I never go there. So let’s talk about Atrios. There are two possibilities here:
    (1) He discourages the Democratic base;
    (2) He encourages independents/undecideds to vote Republican, or not vote.

    (2) is highly unlikely; those people don’t read Atrios.
    (1) is plausible but IMHO also fairly unlikely.

    Rather, I think Atrios pisses off O-bots. Ah, the shame.

  148. 148
    WyldPirate says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Oh noes! A guy holed up in Yemen may eventually be killed rather than arrested if the military tries to take him! My precious civil liberties, do I still have them?

    What is the difference between this guy in Yeman vs Jose Padilla?

    Whose to say that the next guy–who is a citizen-isn’t outside the US but in the US and he commits a crime. Let’s say Obama and Obama alone gets to send out a military hit squad on that person? No attempt at apprehension, just “we’re coming to kill you buddy. No hearing, no attempt to apprehend”?

    Whats the diff?

  149. 149
    liberal says:

    @matoko_chan:
    In the short run, of course the Republicans are hurting themselves in terms of Hispanics.

    In the long run, I don’t see why it has to be true. I might be wrong, but I don’t see the same “staying power” that I see with African Americans.

  150. 150
    Anya says:

    @liberal: The rest of the blue states will fix that little problem, and California alone did not elect Nixon. Besides, once we get our super blue states, I am hoping all the “freedom” loving wingers will move to Texas.

  151. 151
    matoko_chan says:

    @Lurked: medved on teh maths.

    Consider the historic campaign of 2008, when President Barack Obama bested John McCain by a solid margin of 7.2 percentage points. According to the authoritative exit polls, the vast majority of voters (74 percent) identified themselves as “white,” and McCain won a landslide among this segment of the electorate, thrashing Obama by a resounding 12 points (55 percent to 43 percent). This was the same margin that George W. Bush commanded among white voters in his 2000 victory over Al Gore. In fact, because of the larger electorate, McCain’s losing effort actually drew 9.5 million more votes overall than Bush’s victorious campaign of eight years before.
    Why, then, did Bush win the White House while McCain suffered humiliating defeat? The answer is that in eight years the nonwhite portion of electorate soared — from 19 percent of voters to 26 percent of voters. Among these voters, Obama won by a 4-to-1 margin — easily wiping out McCain’s big advantage among white voters.
    For two reasons, these numbers command close attention for anyone concerned about the Republican future.
    First, there is no chance that white voters will ever again comprise 74 percent of the electorate. Most projections for 2012 suggest that self-identified whites will comprise 70 percent or, at most, 72 percent of those who cast presidential ballots.
    Second, it would be hard for any Republican to improve significantly on McCain’s hefty 12-point margin among whites, which means that without an improved showing among Hispanics, blacks and Asians, GOP contenders will lose every time.

    also too– youth.

    People have been focusing on whether the youth vote was up. It was — slightly: going from 17 to 18 percent. But the real story about the youth vote is not how many “new” voters Obama got to show up. It’s how he produced a gargantuan 25% swing among existing young voters, or those who were sure to vote for the first time anyway.
    18 percent times a 25 percent increase in the Democratic margin equals 4.5 points, or a majority of Obama’s popular vote margin. Had the Democratic 18-29 vote stayed the same as 2004’s already impressive percentage, Obama would have won by about 2 points, and would not have won 73 electoral votes from Florida, Ohio, North Carolina, or Indiana.
    So, to clarify here: Obama’s youth margin = 73 electoral votes. Without the economic crisis, this would have been the difference.

    its like Giordano said– us haz teh power– if we just get out teh vote.
    but the long game looks bad for the right.

    The math here is brutal and eye-opening. If Obama in 2012 wins the same percentage of the combined black, Asian and Hispanic vote that he won in 2008 (82 percent), then in order to beat him the GOP candidate would need to win an unimaginable 65 percent of all white voters — whose numbers include such stalwart Democratic constituencies as gays, atheists, Jews and union members.
    The 65 percent threshold represents a far higher percentage than Ronald Reagan won in his landslide against Jimmy Carter in 1980, or even his history-making 49-state re-election-sweep against Walter Mondale in ’84.
    Since white voters won’t comprise larger portions of the electorate in future races, and since no Republican could compile a big enough white majority to win the election on those voters alone, that leaves only one possible path for GOP victory: more competitive performance among Hispanic, African-American and Asian citizens.

  152. 152
    Allan says:

    I blame old white people.

  153. 153
    goatchowder says:

    First of all, stop hatin’ on Nevada, get yer ass out there and protect people from being strongarmed by rightwing thugs!
    http://www.magnetmail.net/acti.....er_id=ATLA

    Secondly, I’ve so had it with lefty circular firing squads. At the OFA headquarters Saturday, there was a SIT IN by fucking CODE PINK! I mean, what the FUCK people? We’re trying to phonebank to get Democrats elected, and you’re sitting here STOPPING US FROM DOING THAT AND HELPING GET REPUBLICANS ELECTED?? What the HELL is wrong with you?

    The volunteers just left, went to a cafe, and kept calling, then came back after the Code Pink morons left.

    I went yesterday, phonebanked a while, heard this story, and I just said, wow, I’m damn glad I wasn’t here Saturday, because I would have been disgusted.

    Obama gets us out of Iraq, finally, and what does Code Pink do out of appreciation? Loses their shit and protests at the OFA office, interrupting GOTV work. What a bunch of idiots.

    I now understand why we actually needed a rally for sanity in this country, and why it was so well attended.

  154. 154
    liberal says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Show me one person in the general public who understands the phrase “liquidity trap.”

    They don’t need to understand “liquidity trap.” Polls will follow levels of employment

    At any rate, people like the idea of the government providing incentives for companies to hire people; they like it more than they like the idea of the government hiring directly.

    For some reason, you persist with a false dichotomy. Aside from government providing tax breaks or hiring people directly, they can pay companies to do the work, which by definition is not “hiring people directly.”

    So the statement makes sense: he isn’t using the government to make government jobs, he’s using the government to stimulate the creation of private-sector jobs, for instance via tax breaks. That’s what people want to hear about how “the government” “creates jobs.”

    What people really want is a job. Tax breaks for businesses will create jobs, but at a really lousy bang-for-the-buck.

    Much better than giving people what they want to hear is giving people what they want: jobs. The way to give them jobs is to prime the economy by infrastructure investment.

  155. 155
    Nom de Plume says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.):

    There won’t be any “wingnut rule”, all the consequential decisions will still be in the hands of the White House and tipping point senators. The House can do what they did in the 90s if they so choose, making a clown show out of government, but they won’t be able to jam through a ban on abortion or enormous tax cuts for the wealthy or the baker’s dozen of Constitutional amendments they are in love with. They won’t be able to nominate Supreme Court justices or start a war with Iran. Nothing other than “I love Israel” proclamations can get done without the President’s nod, so calm yourself.

    That was so good I had to quote it in its entirety.

    This is exactly right. The Dems will keep the Senate, and the GOP will likely have a slim majority in the House. All of this is to say that nothing of consequence will come out of either side of Congress for the next two years, which may not be a bad thing. We already knew that more stimulus wasn’t happening, so what exactly are we losing?

  156. 156
    Que Sera Sera says:

    Proving again that the only troll that should be banned is Cole himself.

  157. 157
    liberal says:

    @Keith G:
    I think it will also be interesting to see if they vote to increase the debt limit.

  158. 158
    liberal says:

    @Nom de Plume:
    The government still has to function, and the Republicans can hold that hostage.

    Of course, in the 1990s they tried that against Clinton and lost (in the sense of politics). They might not lose this time. (Not saying that Clinton is better than Obama; rather saying that it might happen, for whatever reason.)

  159. 159
    El Cid says:

    @matoko_chan:

    show me some data, Noble Campeador

    What do you mean, “show me some data”? I suggested possibilities which were not yet anticipated. If the assumption is that demographic changes will inevitably lead us to a new electoral paradise of a permanent Democratic and liberal majority, forgive me for being skeptical.

  160. 160
    matoko_chan says:

    C’mon juicers……this is going to be mad fun.

    “There is a determined, focused establishment effort … to find a candidate we can coalesce around who can beat Sarah Palin. We believe she could get the nomination, but Barack Obama would crush her,” said one prominent and longtime Washington Republican. ”
    Top Republicans fear the dynamic that played out in many of this year’s intraparty Senate contests — especially in comparatively small states like Nevada, Alaska, Utah and Delaware, where tea party activists helped topple establishment favorites — could easily be repeated in early-state presidential caucuses and primaries …

    beaucoup bloodletting, and none of it ours.
    its a winwin for our side….if she runs on the refug ticket Barack Smash! if she doesnt her braindead followers will start a third party or stay home.
    deliciousness.

  161. 161
    harlana says:

    @goatchowder: I understand your frustration, If it’s any consolation, nobody pays any attention to Code Pink

  162. 162
    cmorenc says:

    @Lars Thornwald:

    I just hope that the electorate wise enough in 2008 to choose a guy with a black guy funny-sounding Arabic name over a decorated war veteran who looks like them snaps out of whatever fucking spell it is in in 2012 and realizes that the 112th Congress jellydicked everything and was the biggest gang of cluster-fucks ever elected, and votes them out and wises the fuck up

    In principle, this sharp re-corrective dynamic could work in 2010 for the US House of Representatives, and a huge portion of the glib teatards elected in 2010 could be swept out in 2012.

    The problems with this return-to-sanity in 2012 scenario are:
    1) Any Senate seats lost to the teatards are gone for six years, not two, and can’t be potentially recaptured until 2016. See: Wisconson, Johnson v Feingold 2010.
    2) Along with the 2010 national “wave” may come GOP control of enough state houses and governorships, and with it, control in a critical congressional redistricting session. That alone could make the fight to recapture the house in 2012 a dozen seats or so a further uphill climb. See: Texas, Tom Delay, Texas delegation (as many as seven leaning-dem congressional districts with dem incumbents effectively redistricted to dilute dem strength and hand those seats over to the GOP the next election.

  163. 163
    rickstersherpa says:

    It looks like some folks forgot to take their irony pills this morning.

    Lets look on the bright side of life, as Monty Python sang in the “Life of Brian.”

    1. Sharon Angle, Rand Paul, Ron Johnson, Pat Toomay, et. al will be great for the business plans of Fox and MSNBC certain blog sites such as Politico, Breitbart, and Red State.

    2. Nevadan attitude toward Yucca mountain may have changed since they now need the work.

    3. The irony of a state being represented by anti-Government conservative who wants to shut-down the Federal Government when but for the Federal Government’s reengineering the Colorado at Hoover and Glen Canyon dams the state would have completed its return to empty desert with the exhaustion of the Comstock Lode and the then the demise of passenger intercontinental rail travel.

    4. Business is very excited the Republicans getting the house and stopping all regulation by the Obama. That of course worked out so well for business as whole under Bush (not). But this is Government of CEOs, by CEOs, and for CEOs.

    5. The President is what he is. He is not weak, stupid (except as explained below in a group think way), nor the victim of Rahm and Geithner. He picked Rahm, Summers, and Geithner because they were attuned with his ideas on economic policy. And he picked up the neo-liberal zeitgeist of the last 20 years while going to school at Harvard and teaching at the the University of Chicago. On social issues he is of course a liberal, but on economic issues he bought into the theory that Government shoud not be the employer of last resort and that the private sector creates wealth and jobs unless crowded out by Government spending. In this sense, he and John Boehner do share some ideas, although neither likes to admit it. Supporting NAFTA, WTO, and financial deregulation while believing Social Security needs to be “reformed” is what all the cool people believed the last 25 years, Democrat just as much as Republican. According to the neo-liberal ideas, what happen should not have happen and once the banks were made whole, then the Mr. Magic Market should have done its thing an revived the economy. Despite the history of two jobless recoveries (1991-94 and 2002-2005) and the entire record of the last ten years of no private sector job creation except in activities directly dependent on Government expenditure such as Defense/war, medical, and education, the smartest folks in the room have been “surprised” by the depth of the recession and lack of jobs in the recovery.

    By the way, I don’t think Hilary would have been much different on this point, although I suspect she would have avoided the fight on health care. But the stimulus would still have been to small and the unemployment rate to high.

  164. 164
    liberal says:

    @goatchowder:

    Obama gets us out of Iraq, finally…

    We still have 50,000+ troops in Iraq. Claiming they’re not combat troops doesn’t make it so.

    Not that I think Obama could obviously have done better given the political realities of the situation (the huge pressure from impending “stabbed in the back” claims). But let’s not pretend we’re out of Iraq, when in fact we’re not.

    Just to clarify, in addition, I’m not suggesting that I follow Code Pink, think they’re doing anything useful, etc etc etc.

  165. 165
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @liberal:

    I believe that, but what I’ve wondered about for awhile is what the impact of this stuff is. Meaning, say water gets into it. Are we talking about making the surface of the continent extremely radioactive?

    The biggest problem with rad-waste is a local problem (as opposed to the global problem presented by carbon), i.e. you can render the local groundwater system unusable for a very long period of time, which in turn makes it very hard to inhabit an area with any sort of population – and even if you use canals to bring in water from an uncontaminated area, that solution has its own sustainability problems – as can be seen in the fate of other heavily engineered hydraulic civilizations from the past.

    Unfortunately it is extremely tempting to judge that by contemporary standards some local region of the country is more or less useless to human beings (“barren desert”) and just write it off as the cost of doing business. This scares me because on a time frame of the last several thousands of years human standards regarding what in the landscape was seen as valuable and what was regarded as worthless have shown a great deal of variation (e.g. it is only within the last 150 years or so that Western European cultures have come to value mountainous terrain, and only within the last 130 years that the Grand Canyon of the Colorado here in the US came to be seen as anything other than a huge nuisance).

    Not to mention that we don’t know what global climate change will do to shift ecological zones around. So I don’t like the idea of saying “what the heck, it’s only southern Nevada”. People in the distant future may have very different ideas about the value of that particular part of the world than we do now.

     
    @TheMightyTrowel:
    I can’t remember your old handle, but I like the new one. I’ll try to keep an eye on your new blog from time to time, to see what you, err, dig up.

  166. 166
    liberal says:

    @rickstersherpa:
    I agree with your #5, more or less (particularly on the idea that Hillary would have been roughly the same on a lot of the economic stuff). But the problem with the stuff about Summers et al. is that by 2008, it was clear that the neoliberal paradigm was highly flawed—Obama didn’t appointment Summers in Geithner in 2004. The fact that he went ahead and picked them is disappointing, if not surprising.

  167. 167
    Marc says:

    @liberal:

    Yup, you say that Atrios et al. piss off “O-bots”, not that they influence fence-sitters. The idea that a supposed progrssive writes an insult like that, by the way, is already a pretty major clue that the hatred of the Judean People’s Front is getting in the way of understanding. We get endless lectures about Overton windows, yada yada yada, and yet the same people are perfectly happy mainstreaming the idea that folks who support the president are just robots/sheep/mindless.

    Even assuming that the lefty blogs only depress engagement among leftists, that’s still a negative.

    The term “useful idiot” applies in spades to the progressive sniper brigade.

  168. 168
    rickstersherpa says:

    No one thought Reagan could be President in 1978 and 1979. To extreme, to unsophiticated, to anti-intellecual, etc. If conditions are bad enough in 2012, where Sarah is supported by a enthusiastic base and while Obama’s base is demoralized and feeling defeated (like the way we are reacting now), we will be talking President-elect Palin. I would not be surprised to see Lynn Cheney as her running mate. That would appease the dynastic instincts of establishment Republicans and mean that there will plenty of work for the Defense industry.

  169. 169
    liberal says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    The biggest problem with rad-waste is a local problem (as opposed to the global problem presented by carbon), i.e. you can render the local groundwater system unusable for a very long period of time…

    I completely agree. What I’d like to see—not from you in particular, but rather the debate on this topic, is the extent of the damage under various scenarios. Are we talking about a few square miles being made uninhabitable? A few hundred square miles? A substantial fraction of the continent?

    Most of the debate seems to be between people who couldn’t care less about ecological impacts, and people who think anything nuclear is the spawn of Satan. I’d like some numbers.

    This scares me because on a time frame of the last several thousands of years human standards regarding what in the landscape was seen as valuable and what was regarded as worthless have shown a great deal of variation (e.g. it is only within the last 150 years or so that Western European cultures have come to value mountainous terrain, and only within the last 130 years that the Grand Canyon of the Colorado here in the US came to be seen as anything other than a huge nuisance).

    Right, any realistic scenario planning would have to have that notion of “our views of habitat might not persist”.

  170. 170
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WyldPirate:

    What is the difference between this guy in Yeman vs Jose Padilla?

    Well, for one thing, the guy is in Yemen, not in US custody. I think most people realize there’s a difference between a guy who’s walking around an al-Qaeda encampment of his own free will and a guy who’s being held prisoner by the US in a US facility.

    If we do manage to capture al-Alwaki (which is what the order actually is, “capture or kill,” not “assassinate”), then we can start the Padilla comparisons.

  171. 171
    matoko_chan says:

    @El Cid: oh noes…the biological basis of behavior prevents that.
    But there is no movement of hispanics and blacks to the GOP that i can see. 50 years of race-baiting has rendered the current republican brand toxic to minorities. darkskinned voters that ordinarily prefer conservatism avoid the GOP– like in Cali– on prop 8. A certain part of the electorate is naturally conservative….but blacks and browns are voting consistantly democratic for Obama, even though they voted against prop 8.
    the whole tea party thing was just a brazen attempt at rebranding– abetted by the fight promoting media– thus the insistence that the Tea Parties included other demographics besides older white christian conservatives (when it doesnt), and the insistence that the teabaggers arent racists, when they are.
    you are correct, in that something will arise, but not anytime soon.
    rebranding was a fail, and two years of Obama and the dems pushing an obstructionist house to enact immigration reform (it will be kabuki, because he cant do it without refug votes) will poison the GOP brand further.

  172. 172
    liberal says:

    @rickstersherpa:

    No one thought Reagan could be President in 1978 and 1979. To extreme, to unsophiticated, to anti-intellecual, etc. If conditions are bad enough in 2012, where Sarah is supported by a enthusiastic base and while Obama’s base is demoralized and feeling defeated (like the way we are reacting now), we will be talking President-elect Palin.

    I doubt. First, Reagan was governor of California, and while I loathe the man, he did have leadership in his background. Palin’s just a grifter, as BJ’ers would like to say.

    Second, AFAICT she scares the crap out of the establishment, even the right-wing part of it. Recall that there was some kind of exodus from the McCain campaign after he picked her. I’m talking advisers, e.g. Charles Fried IIRC.

    Third, I’m only basing this on anecdotes like my wife and not polling data, but I don’t think women like her.

  173. 173
    Lurked says:

    @rickstersherpa:
    That view of the economy seems to have been the dominant view of the economics profession as a whole since the triumph of Friedmanism.
    (Milton, not Tom.) It is certainly the worldview of the Chicago School in particular.

    Politicians often don’t know much economics and since they are mostly lawyers I don’t think they are really trained to interpret evidence the same way scientists do. (I would think economists have such training but they don’t seem to utilize it effectively.) So when Mr. Nobel Memorial Prize Laureate #1 says one thing and Mr. Nobel Memorial Prize Laureate #2 says exactly the opposite, what are they to think? If they care at all and aren’t completely guided by ideology, they tend to go with what seems to be the consensus of the field. I can’t say I really blame them.

  174. 174
    liberal says:

    @Marc:

    The idea that a supposed progrssive writes an insult like that, by the way, is already a pretty major clue that the hatred of the Judean People’s Front is getting in the way of understanding.

    No. It’s a major clue that people writing here have an absurd amount of deference towards Obama and are unwilling to countenance any criticism of him or his platform.

    Even assuming that the lefty blogs only depress engagement among leftists, that’s still a negative.

    I think Obama’s already done a fantastic job depressing engagement among those considerably left of center and certainly doesn’t need Duncan Black’s assistance in the matter.

  175. 175
    matoko_chan says:

    @rickstersherpa: you forget….Palin on the ticket would bring Obama’s base of youth, minorities and sane humans screaming down on the polls like a MQ9 reaper swarm on an afghan wedding party.
    sides, COD in delaware proved it cant be done.
    the refugs know this. they were just using her until the midterms.

    “There is a determined, focused establishment effort … to find a candidate we can coalesce around who can beat Sarah Palin. We believe she could get the nomination, but Barack Obama would crush her,” said one prominent and longtime Washington Republican. “

    COD was a test run. she got crushed.
    its obvious.

  176. 176
    liberal says:

    @Lurked:

    If they care at all and aren’t completely guided by ideology, they tend to go with what seems to be the consensus of the field.

    Except that the field was shown to be a laughingstock in the aftermath of the housing bubble.

  177. 177
    The Moar You Know says:

    People seem unwilling to consider the possibility of a new right which doesn’t alienate itself from Latino voters. Say, a Latino-based right wing movement.

    @El Cid: It’s coming and it’s a lot closer than most people realize. Latinos find American social mores revolting, particularly our rejection of the extended family and our treatment of the elderly.

    My worst nightmare: a socially conservative party made up of Republican Dominionists who have swallowed their pride and have decided they can live with a slightly browner America, a group of rich people who decide they can piggyback the movement to eternal tax cuts, and a large percentage, if not an outright majority, of Latinos.

  178. 178
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    Please read this.

    If this analysis is correct then Dems will vote in this midterm at about the same rate as they ever do in a midterm. The real difference is that white conservatives are superstoked to vote this time. Now, why are the college kids and ethnic minorities not as superstoked to vote as they were in 2008? Maybe evil genius Jane Hamsher discouraged them all, or maybe Obama failed them, but the more likely explanation is that this is just normal behavior.

    Now, why are white conservatives superstoked to vote in comparison? Jon Stewart said that they are not racists so that can’t be it. The major policy initiatives, whatever you think of them, have had very little visible impact to this moment in time, so it’s probably not a referendum on that. White conservatives either are employed, are retired, or are too crazy to hold steady jobs anyway, so I’m not sure the unemployment problem is much of a factor. So I’ll leave this one to all you armchair philosophers.

  179. 179
    WyldPirate says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    If we do manage to capture al-Alwaki (which is what the order actually is, “capture or kill,” not “assassinate”), then we can start the Padilla comparisons.

    Two points.

    First, you’re obfuscating because I believe it authorizes them to kill him. It’s one thing if he is resisting a legitimate attempt at arrest him (and firing at him from a drone isn’t it). Second, Yeman has basically given him de facto asylum by letting him stay there. We have options, starting with seeking Yeman’s assistance in apprehending him.

    More importantly, is al-Alawki an existential threat to the US? Has al-Alawki directly murdered anyone in the US or anyone outside the US or committed a crime against the US or has he merely been someone that has said “bad things” about the US?

  180. 180
    matoko_chan says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.): i think….it is all about not taking the blame.
    the truth is, they had the keys for eight years and fucked it all up.
    their ideology is a uniform epic fail.
    Our Wunnerful Judeochristianstyle Democracy was utterly rejected in Iraq and A-stan, and the unregulated invisible hand of the market just punched america in the face.
    They cant admit they fucked it up even to themselves….. so they want a do-over.

  181. 181
    Brachiator says:

    Nuclear has to be an option. It’s funny that some people want health care like France, but are unwilling to look at their energy policy, which ramped up nuclear as a response to the 1973 oil crisis. Nuclear power now provides over 75 percent of their electricity needs, has reduced their reliance on foreign oil, and has also allowed them to reduce many greenhouse emissions.

  182. 182
    matoko_chan says:

    @The Moar You Know: yeah but its a loooooong way off…especially if O spends the next two years trying valiantly to pass immigration reform while the right fights tooth and nail against it and demagogues brown people to their base.
    they cant help themselves.

  183. 183
    Kathy says:

    @LarsThorwald: What you said to the nth degree. I would love to see Obama say he was going to reduce the deficit by removing the Medicare scooter subsidy, and then tell those Teabaggers to F off.

  184. 184
    Adam Lang says:

    John? I say this with all due affection: fuck you.

    If the Democrats lose big, it won’t be because a few thousand bloggers are mad at him, any more than the Democratic sweep in 2008 was because a bunch of right-wing bloggers were livid at W for preventing Cheney from invading Iran.

    It will be because the economy sucks, because essentially nobody knows anyone whom the HCR bill has helped (I still hold out some hope that the bill will actually help some people once it fully kicks in, assuming it isn’t repealed first), and because both parties, working in unison, have succeeded in convincing people that SS and Medicare are about to go broke.

    I’m sure you know this, deep in your wrinkled little heart, but the sooner you fully internalize the fact that beating up anyone who is to the left of you politically isn’t ‘The Way To Democratic Victory!’ the better.

  185. 185
    Tom Q says:

    @The Moar You Know: Your nightmare is what Karl Rove was aiming at, but I think GOP voters — esp. primary voters — have decisively rejected the approach, leading to the sort of pandering to which John McCain resorted this year.

    I’m skeptical whether the Rove approach would have worked to begin with — for years now, the GOP had been making the same claim about winning over socially conservative African-American voters, and it’s never happened. But after the (short-sighted) explosion of xenophobia in this cycle, I think it’ll be a while before any such strategy can be implemented without evoking ridicule.

  186. 186
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Actually high-level radioactive waste doesn’t stay radioactive for long. Low-level waste does stay “hot” for a long time but it’s not very radioactive. It’s like a fire, either you stoke it up and it burns hot for a short period of time or you damp it down and it simmers away. Nuclear fuel rods are “hot” straight out of the reactor due to daughter isotopes and neutron activation but that’s why they are stored for a few years in ponds to allow the short-halflife isotopes to burn out and dissipate their heat. After that time what’s mostly left is long-half-life isotopes (hundreds of thousands of years or even millions) and the rods are ready to be either reprocessed or stored long-term in dry casks which is where Yucca Mountain comes in. Since uranium is so cheap from mining sources right now, reprocessing isn’t actually worthwhile right now economically speaking. All reprocessing would achieve is to reduce the cubic required to store the true waste materials but Yucca Mountain is BIG as it was designed to store a lot of unprocessed fuel rods instead.

    As for groundwater leakage, Yucca Mountain is a salt dome. There is no groundwater there, there hasn’t been groundwater there for several million years and the best geological science says there won’t be any for another few million years at the earliest.

    Yucca Mountain was worth billions of earmark dollars for Nevada while it was being constructed. Now it’s ready for use the weeping and wailing starts. In the future (maybe a few hundred years from now) when uranium is getting scarce and expensive to reclaim out of mine tailings the fuel rods can be extracted from the depository, reprocessed and turned back into reactor fuel. Think of Yucca Mountain as a Strategic Uranium Reserve, not a waste dump.

  187. 187
    John Cole says:

    I see the usual suspects are out in force. Look- did you claim there is no difference in the two parties? Did you sit out the election? Did you vote green because the Democrats and Republicans are both the same?

    If not, I’m not talking about you. Cripes.

  188. 188
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @liberal:

    Are we talking about a few square miles being made uninhabitable? A few hundred square miles? A substantial fraction of the continent?

    Off the top of my head, I’d say several thousand to several tens of thousands of square miles. Nothing continental in scale. The biggest risk in terms of larger scale contamination is if it turns out that the regional groundwater moves faster and more extensively than we currently think and the pollution is passed into much more widely distributed and rapidly moving surface water systems like the Colorado river. But even today, after several decades of intensive hydrologic and geophysical study we still do not know all that much about the subsurface geology and groundwater systems in a tectonically complicated area like southern NV.

    On the other hand the sort of regional nightmare scenarios that some folks have cooked up, i.e. a new volcano blowing up and spewing anthro-radioactive ash all over the western US, are pretty far fetched. You might as well lay awake at night worrying about a major caldera forming eruption blowing up anywhere in the western US, if that is what tickles your worry-bone.

  189. 189
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @liberal:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    But the fact remains that Democrats who make “centrist” noises get elected and reelected.

    __
    Where’s your evidence for that?

    I think I was unclear. I didn’t mean that all Democrats need to make centrist noises, but that some/many Democrats have successfully parlayed a “centrist” image into getting elected in hostile territory.

  190. 190
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @liberal:

    For some reason, you persist with a false dichotomy. Aside from government providing tax breaks or hiring people directly, they can pay companies to do the work, which by definition is not “hiring people directly.”

    I’m not talking about my preferred policy, I’m talking about the parameters under which political discussion about job creation happens. Yes, the government can do all kinds of things. The current climate, which includes Republican demagogues and conservative Democrats on a hair trigger against Big Spending, basically doesn’t accept any of them, with the narrow exception of tax breaks and tax incentives from the government to businesses, who then hire people.

  191. 191
    ruemara says:

    @goatchowder:

    You know, for all the “YOU OBAMA-BOTS ALL JUST WANT TO SILENCE CRITICISM” twits in this thread. This is why JC made that post. This is why you’re stupid. You actually see this as a choice of lesser of 2 evils? Bullshit. It’s batshit fucking insane bigots and fascists vs much more sane, at least in control of their prejudices, more willing to actually govern in a position of power and more likely to follow the goddamn law.

  192. 192
    Bender says:

    It’s batshit fucking insane bigots and fascists vs much more sane, at least in control of their prejudices, more willing to actually govern

    Yeah, go with that. “55% of Americans are insane racists… this year!” That makes you sound very smart.

  193. 193
    Marc says:

    I’ll go with the actual issue at hand being Democrats vs. Republicans, not Democrats vs. rainbow unicorns.

    The lefty bloggers have consistently been arguing about why unicorns are totally awesome, ignoring the fact that the actual alternative to the Democrats is the Republicans.

  194. 194
    Observer says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    but that some/many Democrats have successfully parlayed a “centrist” image into getting elected in hostile territory.

    Looking at the big picture, being “centrist” has been a loser for a long time.

    The House turned Repub in 1994. For a long time, too long to look up, the overwhelming majority of state governors have been Republican.

    The Dems turned back the house in 2006, the same election with the Mark Foley story that went supernova.

    In 2008, Palin provided the asterisk for the Dem win.

    It’s been a very, very long time that the Dems have won the House without the Repubs kicking an own goal and gifting them the election.

    So no, centrist helps some Dems, but having the head Dem put out centrist messaging will turn out the same results that they’ve been turning out since at least ’94.

  195. 195
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Robert Sneddon:
    I’m not opposed to Yucca Mtn (vs other proposed solutions) on the merits – in fact I think that a combination of AGW and Peak Oil are going to force us to dramatically expand our use of nuclear power over the next couple of decades whether we like it or not, and at the present time going forward with the Yucca Mtn project looks like the best of a bad set of choices – not to mention that the larger groundwater disaster spawned by nuclear power is not so much in the waste disposal but in the enormous tailings piles and other processing waste generated by Ur mines, which are not only mild radio-hazards, but are also chemically toxic, and which are volumetrically huge compared with post-processing rad-waste.

    I just don’t like the idea of making very long term decisions about places like Yucca Mtn. based on the politics of “screw those jerks in [insert region of your choice], they have it coming” that John C @ top is projecting.

  196. 196
    Mnemosyne says:

    @WyldPirate:

    First, you’re obfuscating because I believe it authorizes them to kill him. It’s one thing if he is resisting a legitimate attempt at arrest him (and firing at him from a drone isn’t it).

    It authorizes them to capture or kill him. Basically, we would prefer to capture him, but if it turns out not to be feasible, we don’t have to take any special precautions to keep him alive. IOW, al-Qaeda can’t use him as a human shield.

    Second, Yeman has basically given him de facto asylum by letting him stay there. We have options, starting with seeking Yeman’s assistance in apprehending him.

    Actually, Yemen has asked us for our help in getting to al-Qaeda and al-Alwaki because he’s in a lawless part of the country that they don’t have control over. There is no option for extradition, because the Yemeni government has no control over the area where al-Qaeda and al-Alwaki are.

    More importantly, is al-Alawki an existential threat to the US? Has al-Alawki directly murdered anyone in the US or anyone outside the US or committed a crime against the US or has he merely been someone that has said “bad things” about the US?

    Remember that attempted attack a couple of days ago? Al-Alwaki is claiming credit for planning that. He also claims credit for the underpants bomber at Christmas. Contrary to what mclaren loves to claim, al-Alwaki is actively planning and executing attacks on behalf of al-Qaeda. Fortunately for everyone, his bomb-making skills are not quite up to par and he hasn’t had a successful attack yet.

    Are we supposed to wait until he has an actual successful attack before we try to disarm him, or should we try to take him out before he manages to kill a bunch of people?

  197. 197
    John Bird says:

    Um.

    1) Yucca was declared the repository for that sort of waste in a 1987 act. Chu opposes it, but that is as likely to be a political calculation as a scientific one.
    2) Reid’s opposition was NIMBY pandering.
    3) Angle’s support is questionable, but I don’t really see backing a Yucca repository as a work of evil.

  198. 198
    celticdragonchick says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    People 10,000 years from now will know or understand almost nothing about our civilization (how much do you know about the Mesolithic?) except what we decided to do with our rad waste, and what sort of ceramics cheap-ass plastic toys we left behind

    Power Ranger action figures will still be entertaining children several millenia from now…

  199. 199
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Adam Lang:

    because essentially nobody knows anyone whom the HCR bill has helped (I still hold out some hope that the bill will actually help some people once it fully kicks in, assuming it isn’t repealed first)

    You don’t know a single person who has a child under the age of 26 who will now be able to be covered on their parent’s health insurance if they don’t have their own? I have at least one in my office, and there are only 25 people in my office.

  200. 200
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Observer:

    So no, centrist helps some Dems, but having the head Dem put out centrist messaging will turn out the same results that they’ve been turning out since at least ‘94.

    FWIW, I don’t think Obama puts out centrist messaging, but that wasn’t really my point anyway… what I mean is that someone like Michael Arcuri or Heath Shuler or Mike Oliverio feels pretty comfortable running as Democrat-but-not-the-way-you-think, and if you want them to vote more like Democrat-Democrats, it’s going to take a lot of convincing, especially because “triangulation” was the strategy that paid off for Bill Clinton, so the consultant/strategist class that came up with Clinton will go to that well again and again and again.

  201. 201
    lol says:

    @some other guy:

    We’ve twice seen how “activist” the Professional Left and Netroots really are when Dean (in 04) and Edwards (in 08) got outhussled on the ground by campaigns flush with actual organizers.

    There’s a reason Markos rarely promotes actual GOTV activities at GOS – his audience is all bark and no bite.

    Meanwhile, you twits mock OFA 2.0 which is doing actual work on the ground and whine about a 50 state strategy which never existed.

  202. 202
    Corner Stone says:

    @John Cole: What are you WATB’ing about? Your troll post did exactly what you wanted it to.

  203. 203
    John Bird says:

    @lol:

    I’m kind of lost why you consider John Edwards’s ’08 campaign to be representative of the “professional left”.

    The only major backers Edwards had were unions.

  204. 204
    John Bird says:

    @John Cole:

    Well, you accidentally also posted about a national policy issue of some substance and debate among Democrats, so I’d just chalk it up as a win?

  205. 205
    matoko_chan says:

    @Bender:

    “55% of Americans are insane racists… this year!”

    but they are….they always are.
    the same 55%-58% that were against desegregation and against civil rights are islamophobic and homophobic and pro-Arizona Nazi border law.
    that is why we have the secular elite unelected judiciary.
    to keep the judeochristian majority from kicking the shit out of the rest of us.
    :)
    @Tom Q:

    I’m skeptical whether the Rove approach would have worked to begin with—for years now, the GOP had been making the same claim about winning over socially conservative African-American voters, and it’s never happened. But after the (short-sighted) explosion of xenophobia in this cycle, I think it’ll be a while before any such strategy can be implemented without evoking ridicule.

    totally. its like Breibart vs the NAACP. sure enough, when hes trying to prove the tea parties arent racist, some assclown teabagger pops up with empirical evidence of racism….the Lincoln letter.
    They can’t turn it off. they relly want to, they relly need to, but i think it will take two decades at least.

  206. 206
    John Bird says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    Can I get a source that al-Awlaki claimed responsibility for the recent attempted bombings or the attempted Christmas bombing? I’m not calling you out, but that’s news to me.

  207. 207
    jaleh says:

    I love you John Cole!

  208. 208
    matoko_chan says:

    @Mnemosyne: he is an american CITIZEN. he gets a trial by jury doesn’t he?
    if we try to capture him an he dies resisting arrest, so be it.
    if the US has already tried him in absentia and found him guilty they should disclose.
    whacking him with a predator remotely is not-constitutional as i understand it.

  209. 209
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    As for groundwater leakage, Yucca Mountain is a salt dome. There is no groundwater there, there hasn’t been groundwater there for several million years and the best geological science says there won’t be any for another few million years at the earliest

    Also, this is just factually wrong.

    The proposed storage site is located in a formation made up of welded ash-flow tuff and the hydrology of that formation is much more complicated than what you are describing. IIRC the principle hazard is not that the current water table rises enough to saturate the storage facility, but rather the risk of water from above leaching down thru the storage facility, and subsequently being transported down into the water table – which is currently substantially below the facility and likely to remain well below it even if the climate gets much wetter than it is today.

    The variables we can’t predict very well today are how much water might percolate down into the facility from above (which depends on the future climate of that area), how quickly it can be transported down to the water table (which depends on the subsurface fracture permability – a factor which may be influenced by the future seismic history of the area), and how it circulates once it hits the water table.

  210. 210
    matoko_chan says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    It’s coming and it’s a lot closer than most people realize.

    totally disagree.
    I think it is going to take at least two decades.
    do you have some empiricals?

  211. 211
    celticdragonchick says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    But even today, after several decades of intensive hydrologic and geophysical study we still do not know all that much about the subsurface geology and groundwater systems in a tectonically complicated area like southern NV.

    Not sure I can agree with that. I’ve seen the de-classified geologic strutural cross sections of Yucca Mountain, and the Basin and Range strutural provence is well studied and (I believe) fairly well understood at this time. It is complex, as you noted, but entirely comprehensible.

    Back arc refrigeration of the North American Plate as it sub-horizontally over-rode the Pacific Plate in the latest Cretacious-early Tertiary allowed for rheologic strengthening of the continental crust and subsequent substantial mechanical deformation and thrust faulting pushing ahead of the subducted plate into the Basin and Range and the eventual Rocky Mountains. Sections of diagonally exhumed crystalline igneous and metamorphic rock are on the order of nearly 15 miles in some locales along normal dip-slip fault contacts. Increasing magmatism can be chronologically traced from southwest to northeast as the old Pacific Plate gradually heated and fell away towards the core, with the result that the temperature gradient became quite high in the Basin and Range and additional normal faulting occured in a situation analogous to a block of cheese allowed to sit in the sun for several hours and deform under the heat and its’ own weight.

  212. 212
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Robert Sneddon:

    As for groundwater leakage, Yucca Mountain is a salt dome.

    No, it is not.

    You are thinking of some waste depositories on the Gulf Coast that made use of salt dome strutures.

    Yucca Mountain is primarily composed of pyroclasic units known as tuffs, or volcanic ash. Some of of these igneous units are welded or partially welded, which means the ash was still semi molten as it fell and then melded together into a semi glassy rock on the surface of the earth during the eruption event.

  213. 213
    chopper says:

    @Adam Lang:

    dumbass, john isn’t beating up anyone to his left. he’s beating up anyone to his left who are doing what they can to get the GOP back into power.

  214. 214
    Robert Sneddon says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Any existing thermal power generation fuel cycle is inherently toxic — look at the two kings, coal and oil and the amount of toxic and radioactive waste they leave behind at every stage of production. Comparing the pollution indexes, radioactive as well as chemical toxins a nuclear GWHr of electricity production is nowhere as damaging to the environment as the carbon kings, and that’s before you consider the ever-growing problem of desequestering fossil carbon into the atmosphere.

    France generates over 75% of its electricity with nuclear power stations. A single medium-large ore carrier ship (100,000 tonnes) could deliver enough raw uranium yellowcake ore to fuel the country’s reactors for a year. If it was being delivered as unenriched metal a container ship of the same size could deliver enough to fuel the reactors for a decade. Compare that to the endless coal trains crossing the US, moving billions of tonnes of coal from Wyoming or West Virginia, spreading the toxins far and wide and leaving lagoons of poison in their wake.

  215. 215
    Onkel Bob says:

    @LarsThorwald: It appears as if the youngest voting eligible generation does care either: Generation O faults Obama. Me, I’m looking forward to anarchy, nihilism, and the end of times. I have enough camping gear and survival skills to make it. Besides, I don’t like concrete and computers all that much anyway.

  216. 216
    celticdragonchick says:

    In comment 211 above, I screwed up my unit of measure. I should have said kilometers instead of miles.

    Apologies.

  217. 217
    liberal says:

    @Bender:

    “55% of Americans are insane racists… this year!” That makes you sound very smart.

    Might not sound smart as a soundbite, but anyone who votes Republican anything has, at a bare minimum, seriously questionable judgement and intelligence.

  218. 218
    Steaming Pile says:

    @Dave L: You pose an interesting point. Thing is, if they get all of Congress, they’ll blame the President, and then what?

  219. 219
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Not sure I can agree with that. I’ve seen the de-classified geologic strutural cross sections of Yucca Mountain, and the Basin and Range strutural provence is well studied and (I believe) fairly well understood at this time. It is complex, as you noted, but entirely comprehensible.

    Yeah, but the regional tectonics are not what matters the most in this case – it is the small scale fracture permeability of the relevent formations in the immediate (i.e. sub-kilometer range) vicinity of the site (in the unsaturated zone above the water table) and the larger regional permeability profile and circulation patterns under the water table. And as you know these things are hard to measure with precision using drill holes because you can easily miss a key feature that dominates the overall permeability profile of the formation. We have a pretty good idea what we think the permeability data look like but the error bars on those estimates are large and seismic events could change them after the fact anyway.

    Or to put it in plain language for everybody else: in rocks like this water moves around under the surface mostly by flowing through cracks. Cracks that are easy to miss if the best way you have to look for them in detail is by drilling holes in the rocks in various places to see what you can find; if you get lucky you either intersect or come close to one of the really important cracks through which most of the water is moving, but if you don’t get lucky then you miss it. It helps to drill a lot of test holes but that is really expensive. And in the future earthquakes (which are common in this area) can create new cracks that don’t exist yet, or change which cracks that already exist have the capacity to move around a lot of water and which don’t. So it is really (ironically enough for a site in the same region as Las Vegas) a crapshoot.

  220. 220
    Steaming Pile says:

    @RobertB: It is worth noting that few of the Democratic freshmen were part of the obstruction for fun and profit (and 15 minutes of fame) during the HCR debate. No, it was mainly those people who have been around forever, like Max Baucus or Ben Nelson or Joe Lieberman, AKA the entrenched establishment. Given that Reid didn’t do much about this that I can see, I would shed few tears at his departure from the Senate, as long as it remains in Democratic hands. I’m sure Chuck Schumer would do a much better job at herding cats (hint: an open can of tuna works wonders).

  221. 221
    dms says:

    @El Cid: But John would, has, and is doing so in this post. See, John has that perfect mixture of non-hippiedom and holding people responsible. And he knows just what issues are important. He’s our own David Brooks. Why, if everyone were like he, and thought just like he does, the world would be perfect. And, you do know he has the inside track on Washington DC politics, from his perch in West Virginia.

  222. 222
    Steaming Pile says:

    @goatchowder: And yet the more moderate wing of the “professional left” got all pissy when Robert Gibbs called out the not-so-moderate wing for getting all whiny. If the shoe fits. Sheesh!

  223. 223
    celticdragonchick says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Yeah, but the regional tectonics are not what matters the most in this case – it is the small scale fracture permeability of the relevent formations in the immediate (i.e. sub-kilometer range) vicinity of the site (in the unsaturated zone above the water table) and the larger regional permeability profile and circulation patterns under the water table. And as you know these things are hard to measure with precision using drill holes because you can easily miss a key feature that dominates the overall permeability profile of the formation. We have a pretty good idea what we think the permeability data look like but the error bars on those estimates are large and seismic events could change them after the fact anyway.

    A certain degree of modeling is required and that is never as good as having the empirical field data…which is impossible of course since we do not know how every cubic inch of the sub surface study area is actually configured. Cracks, or ‘joints’ will form according to the dictates of both prevailing and paleo stresses. An example would be joints that form parallel to the axis of an anticline fold. This is greatly affected by the nature (and thickness!!!) of the rock unit of course, and welded tuffs , some calcarous units and also sandstones tend to develop joints esily since they are “brittle” rather than ductile.

    This is constrained by confining pressure, however, and the deeper one goes, the harder it is for joints to form. This is an easy concept to intuit. What seems to be in question here is the degree of local deformation that is seen in the rock that is to form the basis of the repository. Regional scale deformation need not be echoed at the local llevel, and while I do not have the maps in front of me, I do not recall anything about significant local strutural deformation (recumbant folds and so on) that would lead to problems like what you fear. Faults are present, but they also tend to act as barriers to water flow and would actually not be the problem that so many assume that they must be. The only real issue would be one of fault re-activation. That is not impossible, but very unlikely given the natureof the repository.
    There have been examples of fault re-activation linked to waste disposal where contaminated water was pumped into wells at an army base in Colorado. The increased water pressure overcame frictional resistance along a fault and lead to a series of small earthquakes. Thre are sone interesting computer programs that allow you to model and predict angular relationships of a paleo fault with new force vectors and ground water pressure to see if an old fault can be rectivated.

  224. 224
    John Bird says:

    When Republicans sweep to power in the next 48 hours, this site is a no sympathy zone. Everyone of you jackasses who complained about how there was no difference between the two parties better find another website for your tears as the cold, cruel reality of wingnut rule becomes clear. There will be no sympathy here. Have fun, protest people. Now you really have something to protest about, and you don’t have Rahm to kick around any more.

    Online revenge fantasies aside, if the Republicans win big, we all bear responsibility, including you, John. So I hope you remember that when you’re taking out Republican votes on Democratic posters.

  225. 225
    catclub says:

    @Brachiator:
    “It’s funny that some people want health care like France, but are unwilling to look at their energy policy, which ramped up nuclear as a response to the 1973 oil crisis.”

    The French seem to respect the ability of French technocrats to run the system as a national system with standards. The US version is laissez faire – and the invisible hand may be glowing.

  226. 226
    catclub says:

    @celticdragonchick:
    “In comment 211 above, I screwed up my unit of measure. I should have said kilometers instead of miles.”

    Don’t worry, this isn’t rocket science.

  227. 227
    brantl says:

    @Jonathan:

    If you’re going to put nuclear waste somewhere, Yucca mountain is probably the best possible location in the US. Harry Reid should not be doing so much to stop it in the first place.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F…..tain_2.jpg

    There is no good place to put nuclear waste, unless you’re going to launch it into the sun. Nuclear waste has a half-life (look that up, Sunny Jim) that dwarfs the durable lifetime of any man-made containment, and then the radioctive crap is in the ground water. A bunch of Native Americans live around Yucca Mountain, and why should they be poisoned? Buzz off.

  228. 228
    brantl says:

    @FlipYrWhig: Because it takes using your brain to understand the liberal argument, and the wingers just run on ignorant gut-check, no reasoning required. The people that think, that can be convinced by the reasoned liberal argument, are already convinced.

  229. 229
    Brachiator says:

    @catclub:
    RE: “It’s funny that some people want health care like France, but are unwilling to look at their energy policy, which ramped up nuclear as a response to the 1973 oil crisis.”

    The French seem to respect the ability of French technocrats to run the system as a national system with standards. The US version is laissez faire – and the invisible hand may be glowing.

    The US system is whatever reasonable people decide it should be.

    And if climate change is a truly a global problem (and I think it is), then we are going to have to consider global solutions. And so, again, it’s curious that we are supposed to think about such things as global carbon taxes, but leave questions about the use of nuclear energy to individual countries.

  230. 230
    Mnemosyne says:

    @John Bird:

    Here’s an article from the Independent on Sunday, though I can never remember if they’re the wingnutty or non-wingnutty British paper.

    If people want to argue that if Ted Bundy was granted a fair trial despite his crimes then al-Awlaki should have one, too, I think that’s a pretty winning argument. It’s the disingenuous arguers who try to claim that a guy living in an al-Qaeda encampment sending bombs to us is totally innocent of anything but harsh words that drive me nuts.

  231. 231
    kansi says:

    LOVE me this post! Yeah, no sympathy, bitchez!

  232. 232
    John Bird says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    That doesn’t say that al-Awlaki ever admitted to being behind the attempted Christmas bombing. He’s admitted meeting Abdulmutallab but says he wasn’t in any way involved with planning that attack. Should we believe him? Maybe not, but it’s not an admission of guilt.

    Nor does that article say that al-Awlaki acknowledged any role in the most recent attacks. I’m pretty sure the government would be trumpeting it repeatedly if he’d stated that.

    All it says is that al-Awlaki is “linked” to various attacks, which is exactly the case that the government is putting forward, but states it does not have to prove in court. What’s more, that story repeatedly sources itself to “U.S. officials”, and we already know the government’s official position is that al-Awlaki is an imminent threat.

    I think the case for assassinating al-Awlaki would probably be bolstered if he stated that he was involved in those two attacks.

    He hasn’t, though.

  233. 233
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    For the firebagging whiners who like to go on about how the Democrats are no different from the Repubs:

    Watch the beginning of Maddow if you want to see how wrong you are.

  234. 234

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