Futility

The NY Times has an op-ed on why lethal injection is in fact tantamount to torture, and I can’t help but think writing about this is just an exercise in futility. The American people are about to go to the polls and elect a large number of people who enthusiastically embrace torture of anyone the government yanks off the street. Does anyone think they give a shit if a condemned man is tortured?

I’m really very pessimistic about the future. But hey, all the right people will probably get some more tax cuts.

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85 replies
  1. 1
    J.A.F. Rusty Shackleford says:

    Does anyone think they give a shit if a condemned man is tortured?

    Of course they don’t. This Christian nation loves the idea of prison rape. Torturing the condemned is what Jesus would do.

  2. 2
    Scott de B. says:

    The NY Times news section won’t even call torture torture. Maybe the writer should speak to his own editors first.

  3. 3

    Cheer up Cole! At least the Pirates won’t lose any more games. This year.

  4. 4
    Kryptik says:

    And hey, if you didn’t get a tax cut, that’s because you’re a lazy bum that deserves to die on the street. That’s capitalism, dammit, you wouldn’t want to be some commie red soshulizt, would you?

    And hey, if you got tortured, it’s probably because you’re brown, and everyone knows brown folk can’t be real Americans.

  5. 5
    rufflesinc says:

    So what is the endgame? If the gap between the rich and poor keeps rising, and the poor are not disenfranchised (via scotus fiat or amendment) are they really going to keep electing these guys for the next 50 years?

  6. 6
    Comrade Javamanphil says:

    It’s not torture since we do it. It must be enhanced end-of-life administration.

  7. 7
    Kryptik says:

    @rufflesinc:

    Long as they can be successfully convinced that some swarthy brown motherfucker is the reason they’re out of a job, or liberals pickpocketing your hard earned money through (gasp) taxes and entitlements to UNDESERVING LAZY FUCKS! Forget that most of these folks will almost assuredly require welfare, unemployment, Medicaid and Medicare, etc.

    It’s working so far.

  8. 8
    General Stuck says:

    A Bloomberg National Poll finds that by a two-to-one margin, likely voters in the midterm elections think taxes have gone up, the economy has shrunk, and the billions lent to banks as part of the Troubled Asset Relief Program won’t be recovered.

    The facts: The Obama administration cut taxes for middle-class Americans, has overseen an economy that has grown for the past four quarters and expects to make a profit on the hundreds of billions of dollars spent to rescue Wall Street banks.

    Said pollster Ann Selzer: “The public view of the economy is at odds with the facts, and the blame has to go to the Democrats. It does not matter much if you make change, if you do not communicate change.”

    I really don’t know how dems could communicate what they’ve accomplished when we have wall to wall wingnuts spouting bullshit and the anchors and pundits just nod their heads in agreement and queue up the next wingnut with a fresh set of lies.

    American voters are like the monkey that can’t keep from jerking off every 15 minutes, long after the well has run dry.

  9. 9
    BR says:

    That’s why this article may be important. Something’s got to give, and it might as well be the ones who created the mess.

    This article set forth a plan for how consumers could destroy one of America’s four largest banks. Customers would deliver a series of escalating threats against Wells Fargo, Bank of America, JPMorgan Chase and Citibank, demanding policy changes. The threats would culminate in a series of flash-mob bank runs that targeted one of the banks.
    __
    Here’s how Eddie would destroy your bank. And how you can help him do it.

  10. 10
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

     

    I’m really very pessimistic about the future.

    Same here, I really think we are going to go down the road to total decay and destruction. I wouldn’t be surprised if the rest of the world eventually turns against us and frankly, if this slide downhill keeps going the way it has, I really wouldn’t blame them for doing so.

    You have to put a rabid animal down to protect everyone else.

    How about the idea of Tancredo winning in Colorado, home of the crazee Jeebus luvvers and the Air Force Academy they have infiltrated? Nothing like religious zealots, crazee leaders and nuke delivery specialists to stir up a little apocalypse, eh?

    Our daughter told us the other day that she really doesn’t want to have kids in the atmosphere we live in today. Can’t say I blame her a bit.

  11. 11
    beltane says:

    Fighting for what’s right and decent usually feels like an exercise in futility but it is still something we have to do. To me, a non-religious person, the meaning of the word faith is that we carry on despite the knowledge that our efforts may not bear fruit in our lifetimes. Aren’t we glad those early abolitionists didn’t give up in the face of futility?

    Cheer up and continue skewering the assholes with your wit and human decency.

  12. 12
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    Hep me, teh BJ Mawd Gawd done sat on me post!

    Tanks!!

  13. 13
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @General Stuck:

    likely voters in the midterm elections think taxes have gone up

    See, here’s the thing… people should just, like, fucking well know this, because they should, like, fucking well do their taxes, or at least pay attention to the numbers as they get done. It’s inexcusable.

    I think it’s fine to think that the economy “has shrunk” when it has “grown,” because that’s all imaginary and abstract and removed from human reality. It _feels_ bad, and that outweighs economists’ technical definitions of things like “growth.”

    But what we pay in taxes is a simple number. You can check it. It’s utterly inexcusable to think that it’s greater than it used to be.

  14. 14
    Rich Webb says:

    Even worse this posting over at Foreign Policy, documenting the hatchet job that the NY Times just perpetrated on Obama.

    In reality, Rothkopf’s FP blog post is a rather nicely done snark on the hazards of being described as “a thoughtful, intelligent, well-educated, skeptical, intellectually-curious president.”

  15. 15
    beltane says:

    @General Stuck: Recently I’ve been thinking that Democrats should test their messaging not on human subjects but on chimpanzees. If you can get through to a chimp, you can get through to a low/no-info voter. It sounds harsh but I mean this in all seriousness: the cognitive abilities of the average RealAmerican are not as high as liberals think. We must learn to speak their language.

  16. 16
    Cacti says:

    No matter how antiseptic we try to make the process, the underlying fact remains the same. Agents of the state are strapping someone down and killing them.

    Capital punishment is a relic of barbarism. It’s not about justice, it’s revenge by proxy.

  17. 17
    Rich Webb says:

    @Rich Webb:

    Well, so much for my leet HTML skilz. The plain-text version of the FP link is “http://rothkopf.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/10/28/the_unkindest_most_unsurprising_october_surprise_of_them_all”

  18. 18
    Culture of Truth says:

    The NY Times has an op-ed on why lethal injection is in fact tantamount to torture

    Does that mean they are for it or against it?

  19. 19
    General Stuck says:

    If the wingers win the House, then it will be interesting to see if the public rallies around their finding corruption and calls for impeachment because Obama failed to pay some parking tickets the last century.

  20. 20
    Suffern ACE says:

    @Culture of Truth: Very true. In olden times I wouldn’t have to read said editorial to confirm their position on torture.

  21. 21
    Cacti says:

    @General Stuck:

    At least 27% will.

  22. 22
    beltane says:

    @FlipYrWhig: If people were savvy about managing their personal finances, the economy would not be as bad as it is in the first place. I was shocked at the size of the tax cut I received this year, but I am also a stickler about reading the fine print in contracts and various offers. The same people who got suckered into various predatory lending schemes and countless other rip-offs masquerading as “deals” are not going to be super-knowledgeable about taxes either. These are things they do not teach in school.

  23. 23
    General Stuck says:

    @Cacti:

    At least 27% will.

    They seem to be the majority these days

  24. 24
    MattF says:

    You can talk about tax cuts, but the real problem is that no one’s real income has gone up for the last ten years– unless you happen to be a financial CEO. Since expenses continue to rise, this just wears people down. I’m speaking from personal experience here.

  25. 25
    Kryptik says:

    @MattF:

    But trickle down, yo. Trickle down.

  26. 26
    Belafon (formerly anonevent) says:

    @BR: It’s hard to do a flash mob run when you have direct deposit.

    John, if you are looking for a group of people willing to be enlightened, now in America is not the place to look.

  27. 27
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @General Stuck:

    Only in Amerikkka.

  28. 28
    Punchy says:

    Why does this John Cole guy keep posting on ABL’s website? WTF?

  29. 29
    batgirl says:

    @rufflesinc: Yes, because it is what Jesus wants.

  30. 30
    mcd410x says:

    Every two years, strapping young bucks put down their welfare steaks and come together to commit massive voter fraud.

    It’s the GOP Chewbacca Defense. And it makes no sense.

    (But it always works).

  31. 31
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    My post at #10 is still in moderation! Get the lead out!

    :)

    And thank you. Also.

  32. 32
    Kryptik says:

    @mcd410x:

    Fuck, making no sense is a prerequisite for nomination these days on the GOP side, especially if you’re a teabagger.

  33. 33
    Stefan says:

    It’s not death row, it’s a harsh hospice facility. It’s not execution, it’s enhanced Rapturing…..

  34. 34
    Violet says:

    @General Stuck:
    They do indeed. It’s so depressing.

  35. 35

    Very depressed here. Been on a 3-week road trip across the country. (Spent some time in West Virginia, John. Lovely state.) And today is our final day driving across the Salt Lake desert and across Nevada, where apparently Sharron Angle will be our new senator come next week. (Although I’m sure whoever loses will contest. Agony prolonged.) So depressed.

  36. 36
    Violet says:

    @You Don’t Say:
    Me too. This election really has me down. But I’m off to vote today. Vote, vote, vote!

  37. 37
    WyldPirate says:

    @Culture of Truth:

    Does that mean they are for it or against it?

    Well, if it comes down to it and millions of lives are on the line and that injection will allow you to keep that suitcase nuclear device from going off in Grand Central Station, then yeah, inject away.

    /Jack Bauer fantasy

  38. 38
    Kryptik says:

    @Violet:

    Hell, the only reason I keep coming here these days is because fuck all, I need somewhere to vent. Otherwise, I’m liable to either bash my head into something all day, or otherwise break down in a sobbing mess at work.

  39. 39
    Violet says:

    @Kryptik:
    Yep, me too.

  40. 40
    General Stuck says:

    @Violet:

    I voted a couple of days ago, and since becoming a straight party ticket voter, early voting is quick as getting a cheeseburger from McDonalds. Wham bam thank you mam, then plaster the little “I Voted” sticker to the dashboard like a personal plastic Jesus to keep all the evil right wing spirits at bay. Until the next election.

  41. 41
    NonyNony says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    See, here’s the thing… people should just, like, fucking well know this, because they should, like, fucking well do their taxes, or at least pay attention to the numbers as they get done. It’s inexcusable.

    Except, well, no. In the first place remembering the raw dollar amount that I paid last year compared to this year isn’t something I do unless I seek it out to find it. In the second place, how much you pay in income tax from year to year can vary outside of the tax rates set by Congress anyway because of the deductions – your kid is no longer a dependent, your “taxes” go up. You pay off more of your mortgage, your “taxes” go up. You pay off more of that student loan, your “taxes” go up. You had a buttload of qualified medical expenses last year and this year you luckily avoided that kind of mess – your “taxes” go up. Not because anyone is raising taxes, but because you no longer qualify for as much of a deduction as you used to. (You might pay less too, but you’re more inclined to know that it’s because you did something to trigger the deduction – because people naturally want to take credit for good things that happened to them and blame someone else when something unexpected or bad happens).

    And that’s only for the people who really and truly do pay attention to their taxes and understand what they’re paying. I used to have a nutty co-worker who based his beliefs on “higher taxes” solely on how much he got back each year in a refund check. If his refund check was smaller this year than last year, that meant his taxes had gone up. I imagine the change to the withholding tables so that people got more money during the year (and less at refund time) probably drove him into a frothing fury of screams about tax hikes. I imagine he’s not the only one either.

  42. 42

    @Violet: We’ve been on the road through the whole early voting period. But I’ll be there Tuesday with bells on. (And a chocolate bar in my pocket. Fear and depression make me eat.)

  43. 43
    Culture of Truth says:

    Well, if it comes down to it and millions of lives are on the line and that injection will allow you to keep that suitcase nuclear device from going off in Grand Central Station, then yeah, inject away.

    Woo-hoo!

  44. 44
    p.a. says:

    This country’s going to get what it deserves… good and hard. This stuff, of course, has appeared before. But then, after a while, when the insanity flared out, there were institutions that were capable, not to be too impolitic, of beating these cretins back under the rocks they crawled from. I don’t think that’s true anymore. When target A proves not to be the true threat to ‘real ‘Murca’, they, with the help of RNC/FNC, will just move on to targets B, C, D…

  45. 45
    Violet says:

    @General Stuck:
    I told the Democratic GOTV guy on the phone that I wasn’t voting straight ticket. But I don’t know…maybe I will. It’s easier. And despite liking a few Republicans and thinking they’re doing a good job, I’m sick of hearing about them and from them and maybe I’ll vote straight ticket just because.

  46. 46
    The Moar You Know says:

    If the gap between the rich and poor keeps rising, and the poor are not disenfranchised (via scotus fiat or amendment) are they really going to keep electing these guys for the next 50 years?

    @rufflesinc: The last 30 years would suggest that the answer is “yes”.

    People are stupid, and not only that, but vote against their self-interest based on decades of well-targeted propaganda. Why would the results be a surprise?

    The endgame looks like Soviet Russia, 1991. The aftermath looks like Russia, 2010. We’ve got a long way to go, and the destination won’t be worth the trip.

  47. 47
    gnomedad says:

    @beltane:
    Thank you. I need to remember this.

  48. 48
    Nick says:

    I’m slightly less depressed knowing that Sarkozy in France and Berlusconi in Italy appear to be about to go down.

  49. 49
    Redshirt says:

    In a sense, this election season has been easier for me: I don’t need to listen to anyone. I’ll never vote for an R again, barring some massively fundamental change in their party.

    I’m not a Democrat by any stretch, but I’m certainly voting straight D for the foreseeable future. I no longer believe in a “Reasonable Republican”, at any level. Guilt by association is enough for me.

  50. 50
    D.N. Nation says:

    My in-laws, who are straight ticket Teabaggers collecting unemployment and SS and who have been on and off welfare the last 20 years, want Obammy gone because they apparently couldn’t write off some donation or something they made last year, ergo, their taxes went up up UP.

    Shit you not. Can’t wait to listen to this silliness over Thanksgiving. The SS arguments are sublime in their incoherence- we’re putting too much into SS but they aren’t getting enough, also illegals are getting the most, and poor people should just work harder but where’s OUR handout?

  51. 51
    The Moar You Know says:

    I voted a couple of days ago, and since becoming a straight party ticket voter, early voting is quick as getting a cheeseburger from McDonalds.

    @General Stuck: For the first time in a long time, I won’t be voting a straight Democratic ticket.

    I’m a lifelong California resident, and lived in SF for quite a few years. Gavin Newsom, current SF mayor, is running for Lieutenant Governor. I’m seriously considering the Republican for this spot, Abel Maldonado. Probably will go with the Peace and Freedom candidate, but could go for Maldonado.

    Having lived under Newsom’s rule…well, I refuse to vote for the man. His personal life is a scandal-ridden disaster that refuses to end, and he is a bought and paid-for corporate shill. No thanks. Maldonado’s at least more honest, or at least better at hiding how he’s been purchased, and probably doesn’t have a pill habit, but I’ve never voted for a Republican before and don’t know if I can start now. That decision will come down to the voting booth.

    Same deal with the Dem nominee for Attorney General. Although she’s not a world class fuckup like Newsom, she did a shit job of prosecuting ANY kind of crime in SF, and is at best grossly incompetent. Steve Cooley, the Repig, is a fucking Nazi, so for this job the Peace and Freedom candidate is my only option.

    I hope this election is the end of Newsom’s career. He’s like John Edwards, but in addition to the bimbo eruptions he’s got massive substance abuse issues. I’d like to see him get stopped now before he becomes a serious embarrassment to Democrats.

  52. 52
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @mcd410x:

    It’s the GOP Chewbacca Defense. And it makes no sense. (But it always works.)

    If you’re a betting man or woman, you take the stupid and give the points.

    You can move on that game as if it had already been played.

  53. 53
    geg6 says:

    @Rich Webb:

    Linky no worky.

  54. 54
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Nick: When?

    Unless you’re making some hot supermodel joke, and/or whatever it is Berlusconi is sleeping with these days, Sarko is there until 2012 and Berlusconi survived a vote in September that will keep him stumbling through until the end of his term.

    Sarkozy’s polls are terrible but they actually went up a little when he started deportations to Romania.

  55. 55
    some other guy says:

    OT, but how can this possibly be legal?

    Hey, maybe Dem candidates should host Election Day picnics a block from every polling place, handing out free burgers and beer to everyone on their way to the polls. Or just hand out cash! $100 bills stapled to campaign literature.

    Reminds me of “The Great McGinty.”

  56. 56

    Oh, I wouldn’t worry about the death penalty.

    I’m pretty sure that when the Palin administration takes office, we’ll all probably be dying in a nuclear apocalypse in short order.

    Worry about the slow excruciating death of radiation poisoning.

  57. 57
    aimai says:

    I’m depressed. I just drove out to Wellesley–a wealthy suburb around here– and found myself behind a huge black SUV with a totally new sticker that said “a million people went and celebrated Obama’s inauguration and only four of them had to take time off of work.” That’s a new sticker–totally unweathered. Some asshole had to go out and buy it, two years after the inauguration, in order to take this totally unfuckingbelivable crack at Obama’s democratic voters who (obviously, in a totally Democratic State) all fucking have jobs. Yes, we have all the jobs in the entire state. The state is not divided between welfare queens and taxpaying Republicans. The reverse, in fact. We are taxpaying democrats who have to pay taxes to the fucking republican tools to loot the treasury for their wars and their bankster welfare.

    I almost rammed the car.

    aimai

  58. 58
    artem1s says:

    @NonyNony:

    yes!this.exactly.

    I was taught early on that the ideal strategy was to go for a net zero gain/loss. the concept of managing their personal exemptions from year to year so that the government doesn’t get to ‘use’ their money all year until it is refunded is completely lost on people like this.

  59. 59
    morzer says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    Berlusconi is currently denying rumors of under-age girl abuse.

    As for Sarkozy, he’s still remarkably unpopular, despite the pandering bigotry.

  60. 60
    Punchy says:

    Wanna talk depressing?

    Check this out, and tell me society hasn’t precisely shit the bed at least thrice over.

    God damn this country is fucked.

  61. 61
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @aimai: Drive carefully around the college, aimai — you’ll not want to hit my daughter. On the other hand, she voted by mail a week ago, so just don’t hit her hard.

  62. 62
    Nick says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim: A garbage crisis in Campania is hurting him badly. He held the confidence vote in September in order to regain a mandate sensing trouble in the south. My guess is he has another year, tops, and if progressives in Italy actually vote this time, accepting that the government will be a Centre-left one, they’ll win. I’m not a big fan of Pier Luigi Bersani myself, but he’s from northern Emilio-Romagna, will steal some votes from the right in the north, and if he can consolidate working class support in the South, he could take a snap election.

    Sarzoky is DOA right now, barring a miracle comeback. The retirement age snafu has energized the French left.

  63. 63
    YellowDog says:

    I don’t understand the hand-wringing. Life is uncertain, but it goes on and you deal with it. You keep working. I was in graduate school when Reagan was first elected and, according to the department’s Marxists, the equivalent of an extinction event had just occurred (as if Jimmy Carter was the answer to their “prayers”). I did have a laugh when, early the next year, one of the more vocal Marxists got a haircut; the department was not going to give him any more teaching assistantships and he had to get a job. That was an extinction event.

    Please note that I am not referring to executions but to JC’s attitude of pessimism

  64. 64
    Citizen_X says:

    Torture? Fuck, the GOP is running two just-barely-escaped-being-convicted war criminals for congress this year, Pantano in NC and West in FL, and Pantano is probably going to get elected. These guys brag about their actions (murder and torture, respectively).

    Doesn’t give me a lot of hope.

  65. 65
    suzanne says:

    I have never been able to understand the cognitive dissonance in capital-punishment supporters. Every single one of them that I’ve met complains about the “big government” that makes it difficult/time-consuming to execute inmates. They honestly don’t see that there is no government bigger than the on that can, you know, KILL YOU.

    These same people typically are also the types that accuse government of being bureaucratic and Kafkaesque (not that they actually use that word) and riddled with errors. Why, then, they want that same government to be able to KILL YOU is simply beyond my ability to reason. I mean, have you been to the DMV? Now imagine those people with the blue needle, for fuck’s sake.

  66. 66
    JPL says:

    Yesterday I voted and like many others voted a straight party ticket. I’m not sure that I’ll ever vote for another Republican.
    A female stopped on her way out to complain about the people who were signing in the voters. She mentioned that the process should be run by businesses who could do it better. Yeah privatize voting, that will fix our problems. Since I knew my right to exercise my vote would be endangered, I did not slap her face.

  67. 67
    Paul in KY says:

    As y’all know, I’m for a properly administered death penalty. I don’t agree with the 3 drug cocktail way, I would much prefer the overdose of Thiopental way.

    Although, I would also be for the Chinese way (bullet to back of head). I don’t think the exit needs to be painless, just quick & 100% effective.

    The biggest thing (of course) is not to ever execute an innocent person. That’s why I would restrict death penalty to cases where we know 100% that they did it (thru videotape evidence, perp leads you to body, etc).

  68. 68
    Davis X. Machina says:

    They honestly don’t see that there is no government bigger than the on that can, you know, KILL YOU.

    Nothing beyond what they see — or read in their chain e-mails — actually exists.

    The country is in the hands of an electorate a good plurality of which hasn’t mastered object-permanence yet, and may never get that far.

    Take the stupid and give the points. For the stupid, every game’s a home game.

  69. 69
    Bob L says:

    Hey, the comies had it right with executions; bullet to the back of the head. The condemned is instantly killed.

    Now whether we should be executing people is another question with all the fuck ups and convictions of innocent people, but I suppose REAL Americans instinctively know you need break a few eggs to make a FREEDOM(tm) omelet.

  70. 70
    suzanne says:

    @aimai: God, that’s horrible.

    I saw a Hummer H2 last week with a custom-made decal on the back window that read “PRIUS REPELLENT”. I had the same urge to accidentally-on-purpose ram it, then I remembered that one out of three Arizonans carries a gun in their car. And I was fairly sure that this shitstain was one of them.

  71. 71
    Paul in KY says:

    @aimai: You can always key it next time you see it in a local parking lot ;-)

  72. 72
    beergoggles says:

    Wait wait, the NY Times thinks something is torture? Alert the press! Oh, it’s only an op-ed.. then carry on.

  73. 73
    Bob L says:

    @suzanne: H2 suck they only get 10mpg. That means if you assume a 120 mile month commute the Prius sissy-car is paying $51 a month while the REAL American H2 is paying $360 a month on gas alone. On top of that a H2 will roll if you take a turn faster than 25mph. H2’s are useless pieces of junk and exactly the kind of car a tea tard would drive.

  74. 74
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Nick: Oh you mean “about to” in the next election.

    No doubt. I’ve been thinking in terms of the election we’re “about to” have next week, so was assuming you meant sooner than 2012.

    Yes he will certainly lose then, but it’s not like either he or Berlusconi are going to be forced to resign early, barring something really surprising.

    The left is fired up, yes, but Sarkozy will win this one. Paris is already more or less normal, the garbage is being picked up, the metro runs normally. I mean, he’ll lose in the end, but he did that long ago. Buyers remorse has rarely been so strong.

    @morzer: Berlusconi has been so tarred with scandal since he started that another bucketful barely shows up, no matter what it is. He’ll muddle through until the elections, then probably lose.

  75. 75
    Nick says:

    @Bill E Pilgrim:

    The left is fired up, yes, but Sarkozy will win this one.

    And lose in 18 months. This is where the European left differs than the American left. The French left is not going to sit around sulking, blaming the Socialists for not stopping Sarkozy from raising the retirement age. They’re not going to whine no one listened to their protests. They’re going to make their voice heard again, with their votes.

    And no right wing party will ever think of doing it again.

  76. 76
    Bill E Pilgrim says:

    @Nick:

    Yeah, we’ll see. You may be just a tad optimistic there. Never forget that the French did actually elect Sarkozy, and internecine fighting among “the Left” played at least a part in why. Who’s going to win– who knows, will be an interesting election this time.

    Sarkozy losing in 18 months is a given, I just didn’t think that “about to go down” fit that time frame, that’s all I was really asking.

  77. 77
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @NonyNony: You know, you make a good point. But, still, when people say their taxes have gone up, it should be based on thinking about the underlying numbers from year to year, not based on thinking that because you have less money this year the gummint dun took it.

  78. 78
    rdldot says:

    @Redshirt: Amen. I stopped voting for any Republicans on August 31, 2005. I will never vote for another. Actually, that’s not really true because I voted in the Rep primary so I could vote against Rick Perry, so technically I am a registered Republican who will never vote for a Republican in a general election.

  79. 79
    Redshirt says:

    @rdldot: Ditto. I wish it were not so, but these are the cards we have been dealt.

    I want to fight these people in the worst way – the ballot is the way to do it.

  80. 80
    Oscar Leroy says:

    The American people are about to go to the polls and elect a large number of people who enthusiastically embrace torture

    We did it in 2008, so why not do it in 2010? Look forward, not backward!

  81. 81
    andrea says:

    Moar, I don’t live in SF but I work here. Some of my friends who live here are voting for Newsom just to get him out of the city.

  82. 82
    Greg says:

    Hey lets face it, some of those bastards deserve to die. Isnt it less cruel to put them out of their misery. Why incarcerate them for 30+ years. isn’t that cruel? What benefit will they be to society when or if they get out. Put em down, it is painless. I watched them put my dog down, Sedate them and the OD them. Takes 30 seconds.
    Cost effective too.
    And for our enviromentally cconcerned friends why don’t we recycle human remains? Burying people is a waste of land and a waste of protien?

  83. 83
    kth says:

    Torture is one of those issues on which the opinion of elites is crucial. We probably would not have gotten civil rights changes when we did to the degree that we did, had not at least some in power been convinced that equality would help us win the Cold War (by taking a card away from the Soviets and making the 3rd World hate us a little less).

    Similarly, it will probably depend on people like Robert Gates coming to believe that torture undermines American imperialism, for the government to permanently stop doing it.

  84. 84
    Mnemosyne says:

    @The Moar You Know:

    I’m a lifelong California resident, and lived in SF for quite a few years. Gavin Newsom, current SF mayor, is running for Lieutenant Governor. I’m seriously considering the Republican for this spot, Abel Maldonado. Probably will go with the Peace and Freedom candidate, but could go for Maldonado.

    I’d go Peace & Freedom, myself. You know that the recall campaign against Brown is going to start on Nov. 3rd, so I’d rather not have a Republican anywhere near that seat.

  85. 85
    Bender says:

    The American people are about to go to the polls and elect a large number of people who enthusiastically embrace torture of anyone the government yanks off the street.

    Yeah, but Pelosi is in a protected district, so whattayagonnadoo?

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