Last night I got a call from a hard-working Democratic volunteer. When I told her that I planned to vote for Democrats, and that I definitely was voting, the relief I heard in her voice was both touching and maddening. From my phone banking experience, I suspect the reason she was relieved is that she’d encountered some of the usual and customary apathy of Democrats who can’t be bothered to vote in off-year elections.
We like to bitch and complain about the uselessness of elected Democrats, but I’ll be god-damned if I’m going to complain about those we elect without mentioning that there are a hell of a lot of Democrats who would vote if the voting fairy thrust a ballot into their hands, yet who can’t manage to get their asses off the couch and head to a polling station. And spare me the lecture about how some of their delicate sensibilities were offended by Obama’s inability to deliver a pony with the right color ribbon pleated into its mane. This phenomenon has been around since the first time I picked up a rotary dial phone and called a voter over 30 years ago.
The sad fact is that if we do lose the Senate and/or House next week, and usher in two years of stasis, subpoenas and division, it will be because a few thousand registered Democrats just couldn’t be bothered to take a couple minutes out of their day to put a little mark on a piece of paper.
AxelFoley
What you said. Every last word.
geg6
Yes. Fuck yes.
madmatt
If they had given me a way to tell the difference between them and the GOP scum I would make the effort. They decided to hold me down so that I could be raped by the insurance industry and the bankers…I can get that plus a tax break from the GOP all without leaving the house. Maybe next time they will remember to do something for the people who VOTED for them as opposed to hunting for GOP votes. Why aren’t the bankers voting for him, after all he fellated them and kept them out of jail for the last 2 years.
jwb
FWIW, my experience at the phone bank was that Dem voters are actually very pissed and very motivated. The biggest problem I saw was that the lists had lots of disconnected numbers on them, meaning potential voters that we have little chance of reaching.
Persia
The sad fact is that if we do lose the Senate and/or House next week, and usher in two years of stasis, subpoenas and division, it will be because a few thousand registered Democrats just couldn’t be bothered to take a couple minutes out of their day to put a little mark on a piece of paper.
Thank you. Not to mention how many states now have advance/absentee balloting. It’s not that hard. (The only reason I don’t do absentee ballots is because I like taking my daughter into the booth the way my mom did, I think it’s one of the best ‘lessons’ she taught me.)
jwb
@madmatt: If enough voters have your attitude, you’ll get everything you deserve and more.
Violet
I got a phone call from a Democrat volunteer asking me if I they could count on me to vote a straight Democratic ticket. I was so startled I blurted out, “No!” Because I never vote straight ticket. I always vote for candidates. Not sure that was the right way for him to ask the question.
I told him I was going to vote early and I’d vote for a lot of Democrats but not straight ticket. I think that made him feel better.
I felt a little bad about the loud and emphatic “No!” but that’s a crappy script if that’s what he’s supposed to say. I’m a big supporter of Democrats and if it put me off, that’s not a good thing.
joe from Lowell
@madmatt:
Oh, that’s probably just because these institutions that spend tens of millions of dollars every year to understand and influence the government just don’t understand their interests and the actions of the Democratic White House and Congress as well as you do, random internet commenter d00d.
Rosalita
Word. All of them.
I can’t believe ANYONE would deliberately decide not to vote.
mistermix
@madmatt: Either you are trolling or you’re too fucking dense to understand that the reason that Democrats have to court GOP votes is because idiots like you don’t bother to turn out.
PurpleGirl
On Saturday I came home from shopping and found a man at the lobby door bell system calling apartments (he was between calls just then). I asked if he was trying to find someone in particular. He said he was canvassing registered Democrats about voting. I told him I was a registered Democrat and I intended to vote. We sat down on a bench and he looked for my name in his list and didn’t find it so he took my name and phone number. We talked a bit and he told me he was a volunteer from Local 3, IBEW. I told him my father had been a member and we talked about the union for a bit. It was a pleasant conversation but I did get the feeling that not many people were helping him out and didn’t understand what he was doing.
The housing development I live in originally was sponsored by the typesetters union and almost all the residents were union members. Today, while the complex is still non-profit it no longer has union ties and many newer residents may not be union members or have any ties to union.
geg6
@madmatt:
Such a principled progressive you are! I know I’m impressed by your commitment to progressive issues as evidenced by your love of tax cuts and hatred of the most progressive legislative session seen since the mid-1960s. Your steadfast progressive stand is something to be emulated!
Punchy
Well….you left out the part about being photographed by GOP lawyers, videotaped entering and leaving by teatard “voting fraud” thugs, harrassed by The White Panthers, and then not having your vote matter b/c you’re in a dark, dark red state that would likely elect a Komodo Dragon if it ran against an establishment Dem.
joe from Lowell
@Violet:
See! The Democrats hate gay people!
That’s why supporters of gay rights need to do what history has shown to be the most effective method of advancing a group’s political agenda – deliberately avoid voting.
Rosalita
@madmatt:
we’ll add your comment under the tag “fucked-up-edness”
NobodySpecial
Already voted. Only voted for one Republican, who is Judy Baar Topinka. She’s not a wingnut: Pro-choice, pro-gay rights, and got mauled pretty savagely by the Teatard wing of the Illinois Repubs when she ran for Blagojevich’s job. She might be the last elected Rockefeller Republican in Illinois.
elmo
I live in TN-04, Lincoln Davis’s district. The only other race of any significance is the race for governor, which McWherter has no chance to win whatsoever.
Will somebody please explain to me how my voting will benefit the Democrats, the state of Tennessee, or the nation?
Please. I will absolutely vote if there is a point to it. But right now, I just don’t see one.
jwb
@Violet: That is the script that I received at the phone bank. I think that’s a script, party phone banks always follow (they are in the business of getting you to vote for the party after all), and I at least wasn’t taken back at all when someone bristled at it. After the “vote straight ticket” opening gambit, the script then went through the various candidates.
One rationale for voting straight Dem at least through the state level offices (and I think this might explain to a some extent why the corporations have gone all in this year) is that it’s a redistricting year, so the various state legislatures and governors races are actually more important this year than usual. There was a story in the paper this morning about the obscene amounts of money that have been pouring into those races under the radar.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@jwb:
A-fucking-men. I won’t waste my time discussing politics with those who refuse to participate. I hope he gets everything he deserves. And more. For now I will add this douche to my list of people to tune out here. I have been voting since 18, have lost more than won and I will not quit until I draw my last breath.
Go ahead matt, give up. That’s what they want you to do.
geg6
PA does not have early voting, dammit.
If we did, I’d have voted within 3 minutes of being allowed. And it will be a straight Dem ticket, no ifs, ands, or buts. It is a rare election that I end up with a straight Party ticket, but the last two years have shown me that there is no GOPer, no matter how sane-seeming at the moment, trustworthy enough to give my vote. I trust none of them at all any more and may never again give a GOPer a vote.
jwb
@elmo: If you don’t vote, you don’t really have the right to bitch.
NobodySpecial
@elmo: The point is simple. The Declaration of Independence lists a whole bunch of rights you got, and specifically says anything not listed can’t be taken away. It says you only have one responsibility as a citizen…to vote.
Plus, if you can’t be bothered to vote, I can’t be bothered to care when you start whining about your problems with elected officials.
PurpleGirl
@elmo: For you, maybe just adding to the numbers of Democratic voters, which may deny the Republicans bragging rights that more people voted for them which means more people agree with them. YMMV.
FFrank
Looking forward to voting. and spreading the word to my facebook friends and my email lists.
Just crossing my fingers that Toomey doesn’t make it. Having a Club for Growth idealogue just squicks me out.
Bootlegger
Dems in my area seemed to be fired up, in part because the thought of Senator Rand Paul sends chills down our spines but also because our local Dem representative, Chandler, is getting hammered by outside money.
joe from Lowell
@elmo:
State legislators, city councilors, and attorneys general are the future of leaders of the federal government. There are probably important ballot questions this year.
aimai
I already voted–I’m having a surgical procedure on election day. I’m incredibly angry about the whole election and I can’t listen to local political coverage anymore since the right side of the aisle simply lies about everything and the democratic side is totally incompetent at getting its message out. And I live in a blue state. I’m just totally drained at this point. I would never not vote and I’d never not work for political candidates and this is an incredibly important election but in my heart (not in my pocketbook or my votes) I can’t forgive the democrats for not fighting smarter, earlier, harder, and more effectively for the house and senate. They are swamped–totally swamped–with the Citizens United money but that just meant that it was always going to be down to GOTV and base enthusiasm.
aimai
Malraux
I plan on voting democrat, but I’m still undecided as to if Blanche Lincoln counts as a democrat.
elmo
Thanks to Joe and Purplegirl for the reasonable responses. The thing is, I know perfectly well that failing to vote means that I forfeit the right to complain. Big deal. I complained bitterly to Lincoln Davis’s office all last year. Didn’t change any of his votes.
The firebaggers go on about Obama being the same as a Republican, and that’s self-evident horseshit. But Lincoln Davis? How is he any different?
tim
To make a point by taking its hypothetical to an extreme, would it be accurate to say that by the “you must always and forever vote or shut up” logic of the Obot/Dembot BJ Kool Kids, if Idi Amin ran as the Democrat against Pol Pot as the Republican in my district, I would be obligated to vote for Idi?
Cue the personal insults and self righteous stupidity…
Omnes Omnibus
@elmo: I think that, in a deep red area, the practical reason for Democrats to vote involves playing for the future and affecting things on the margin. Take this hypothetical: Voting in the district goes 75% Republican and people like you did not vote. Other people in the area who might not like what the Repubs are doing are unlikely to vote in the future because they don’t see it making a difference. Things stay the same. Now, contrast it with this: Voting in the district goes 55% Republican because everyone like you voted. You lost, sure, but it looked like a contest. Some of those other people who aren’t happy with the Repubs might be interested in hearing what Democrats have to say and voting for theme the next time. And so on…
There is no real short term reward other than personal satisfaction at having done your duty, but over time it can make a difference.
Omnes Omnibus
@tim:No, you could write in FDR, Abraham Lincoln, or anyone you choose and you would have voted. There always are choices.
Citizen_X
@jwb:
Hell, yes. You think redistricting isn’t a big deal in my state? (Hint: it was last done under the direction of a fellow by the name of Tom DeLay.)
GaBuck
I’ve already voted, so the election is over for me, but I must say that it seems to me that the only people who ever win are media, and the members of the Election Cycle industrial complex. Manufactured Outrage, False equivalency and fear win again.
Kerry Reid
@madmatt:
Hyperbolic rape analogy for the FAIL!
Here’s a hot tip, douchebag: One thing and one thing only is EXACTLY like rape — and that’s rape.
tim
@Omnes Omnibus:
And what would that act accomplish, other than giving me the right to honestly say I “voted?”
Bottom line, I’ve come to believe over the last ten years that not voting/participating, especially if I’m registered, is a valid political act. Statistics are kept of the percentage of eligible/registered voters who participate. By helping to drive that number ever lower, I help to delegitimize and expose what I believe to be a bogus political system in the U.S. Why is that not a valid act.
And given all the pressure TO vote, I consider NOT voting to be an active choice.
I’m 53, voted every election thru 2004, almost always Dem. They’ll get my next vote when I say they’ve earned it. This is not a difficult position to understand or respect, but I get the vibe that BJer’s and the like are threatened by the non-participation of people like me, which is why you all lash out with such juvenile abandon; and now that I think about it, your histrionics too are a desired outcome of my non-act political act.
So deal with it.
Cue stupid remarks about ponies and colored ribbons…
Chrisd
@elmo: Ideally, you get to vote in genuine support of a candidate. The Democratic party being what it is, that’s not reliably an option.
Absent that, the next most satisfying and useful option is to vote against someone you truly despise. One advantage in living in a red area is looking up all the nasty pledges our Republican candidates make to our many statewide and local Christian fascist groups to get their seal of approval.
When all else fails, that gets my blood boiling for one more round of Democratic voting and disappointment.
Nick
@mistermix:
Win
madmatt
Glad everybody liked my opinion….I notice not one of you bothered to actually refute my argument that the dems have done nothing for me and the rest of the middle class while helping bankers and ins co’s.
Kerry Reid
@tim:
1) Delegitimize and expose what I believe to be a bogus political system in the U.S.
2) ?
3) Progressive Utopia!
Unless you have a strategy for the “what’s next” part, then I don’t see it as a valid act. But then, I belong to a category that only got the vote less than 100 years ago, so I don’t take my franchise as an ethical burden.
nevsky42
@madmatt: My guess is that most of the commenters here are to busy to refute the assertion the earth is flat.
madmatt
@Nick:
I voted in 2008 and it was a dem landslide…why did dems start catering to the GOP the next day…why is the “liberal achievement of the last century healthcare bill” a gag that the heritage foundation ran in the 90’s that was considered to useless to vote on back then?
ricky
@tim:
This is not a stupid remark. It is a proven scientific fact (which some will call a theory). You will never get a ribbon, much less a pony, with that kind of attitude.
I do, however, admire your strength to withstand all the pressure applied to make you vote. You probably have the willpower to reverse even choices made by the playing of biological tricks by our Lord.
Nick
@tim:
Irrelevant, neither would even run in a democratic election, Idi Amin would never get the Democratic nomination, nor would Pol Pot get the GOP nomination.
That said when offered those choices, choose the one that is closer to you politically.
But Idi Amin isn’t running.
merrinc
@joe from Lowell:
It’s impossible to underestimate the importance of local races. From teeny town councils to school boards, it’s where the crazies get their foot in the door and start working their way upward. Case in point: Palin started out as a town council member in Wasila.
Personal note: Taking my 18 year old son to early voting with me this morning. It’s the first time he’s been eligible to vote and I’m not sure which of us is the most excited.
madmatt
@nevsky42: then do tell me how I am better off than I was 2 years ago?
Ash Can
@madmatt: If the most productive congressional session in 45 years can’t convince you, then we sure as hell won’t, so why should we bother?
lacp
@tim: I have no problem with somebody who doesn’t want to participate – if you really don’t have any preference, then it doesn’t make sense to vote. The problem I see with your position is that you do seem to have a message you want to convey: you want Democrats to earn your vote. Exactly how are you sending this message? Voting Green sends a message; voting Constitution Party sends a message. Silence? That’s not really providing any cue to anybody, is it?
Nick
@madmatt:
they didn’t, next question
it’s not, next question
Brighton
Older liberal dems have an image problem. It’s easier to be conservative when your life has no purpose anymore. Read here.
mistermix
Hey, non-voting crybabies. Your salty tears move me to remark that voting is not the only place in life where you have shitty choices leading to disappointing outcomes. So I assume that you:
1. Don’t bother to try to have a relationship with the opposite sex (or the same sex, if that is your wont), because that often ends in tears and heartbreak, and sometimes you don’t have a choice in the matter.
2. Keep off the roads, because there are a lot of accidents out there, you’re often stuck in traffic, and the road engineers don’t design them the way you like.
3. Don’t eat out – people get food poisoning that way, and sometimes the food isn’t good, so your money isn’t going to pay to support the evil restaurant-industrial complex.
4. Don’t go to movies – you don’t have any say in the plot, so why spend your hard-earned ticket money to further the Hollywood industrial complex.
In addition to the crybaby attitude, what also slays me is the “why should I vote – and by the way, who’s running” defiant ignorance.
Chrisd
@merrinc:
This is so true. Cheap thrills, but I really do get a kick out of ferreting out the low-level stealth Christers and working my ass off to defeat them. And they are not always Republicans.
mslarry
@elmo:
First things first, my hyperbolic answer as to why you should vote would be the three names: Andrew Goodman, James Chaney and Michael Schwerner, but then i realize that answer isn’t fair.
My second answer goes something like this, if you don’t vote then politicians take you for granted. period. You live in a red state and you want to vote blue, so what if your candidates don’t win? The more democrats that do vote, the less inclined the republican who wins may be to move further to the right. See the awful John McCain as an example — before he got “teabagged” , he at least gave the appearance of being reasonable.
My third answer would be that the next generation is more liberal and more open-minded than ever. In other words, they’re progressives. So while we wait for them to become of voting age, it’s our job to show them progressive policies work. The only way to do that is turn red states from purple states… to blue.
Hope i’ve convinced you?
Best —
ricky
@madmatt:
Matt. You ask for refutation.
Nothing this Congress did allows you to be “raped”
by insurance companies. Unless you have no health insurance. If you have no health insurance, what Congress did was protect the rest of us taxpayers from picking up your medical tab when your previously displayed stupidity leads to bad lifestyle choices which cause a health problem. Like getting run over by the Teabagger bus by not thinking it was important to avoid it.
Nothing this Congress did allows you to be raped by banks.
The restrictions applied to them were milder than many would have preferred, but nobody is even suggesting there is a mandate you put your money in a bank or borrow from them.
Nothing in this Congress required you to use more intelligent descriptive phrases than oral sex to describe
the legislative process. However I must salute your intellectual phoniness by using fellatio instead of blow job.
jimmything2681
@mistermix:
Wilmot vol?
Omnes Omnibus
@tim: Tim, don’t vote if you think that is the appropriate choice. I, personally, was not engaged in histrionics, but whatevs. If voting and citizenship are not important to you, that is your prerogative. I have to say though that viewing sitting on your dead ass as some kind of revolutionary act of delegitimizing the process is rather comic.
nevsky42
@madmatt: Siiigh. OK, right off the top of my head, can’t get kicked off insurance due to pre-existing conditions, credit card reform, new infrastructure investments via the Recovery Act, the Making Work Pay tax cut, Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act for your sister/wife/mother, offshore drilling ban, troops out of Iraq.
Now you’re going to answer that that’s nothing, and then I’m going to bang my head against the wall for being stupid enough to take trollbait.
lacp
@Omnes Omnibus: I dunno, during the Vietnam War a lot of Buddhist monks sat on their asses and effected a lot of political change. Of course, they set themselves on fire, too…..
evinfuilt
I did my duty and voted last Thursday, had to hike through a mass of Ron Paul supporters and the modern tea-baggers, hand in hand with my partner. Was so worth it, the feeling you get from voting afterward is wonderful (doubly so when all the Obama=Hitler people outside know how you voted.)
Omnes Omnibus
@lacp: See, they weren’t just sitting there pretending that they were brave rebels who were denying the system their approval. Sit-ins are another thing as well.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@lacp:
“Silence? That’s not really providing any cue to anybody, is it?”
Exactly. Most pols won’t have enough info to read that one way or another. Did Democratic voters not vote because the Dem wasn’t conservative or wasn’t liberal enough? Or are these voters who just don’t care that much? Not voting provides no information. It may feel satisfying, but it accomplishes absolutely nothing. If you want to make some grand statement, vote for a third party candidate or write someone in.
Lurked
@mslarry:
“First things first, my hyperbolic answer as to why you should vote would be the three names: Andrew Goodman, James Chaney and Michael Schwerner, but then i realize that answer isn’t fair.”
It’s entirely fair, honoring the memory of these people and others who died for civil/voting rights is precisely why I started voting again after several years of being a Protest Person in an area that at the time was redder than it is now. I realized how childish I was being when people had given their lives for all to have the right to vote, and I wasn’t even exercising it.
ricky
@lacp:
The asses on those Vietnamese monks weren’t dead when first they sat. The acts they performed to deaden their asses certainly changed things, but who exactly was it they got when Diem fell?
lacp
@ricky: I’m pretty sure they didn’t get anything they wanted, but they did shake up the system, which was more my point.
mslarry
@Lurked:
Thanks for that, you’re right. It’s just that as a black person that kind of talk was drummed into my head from childhood and I didn’t want to come off as obnoxious. Obviously, as an African American the civil rights movement is very significant to me. I had family members who were beaten, etc. But you’re right those three young men are significant to all Americans and should be honored as such.
peace
joe from Lowell
@tim:
Your sentences are out of order, champ.
matoko_chan
im working campus GOTV in colorado and I wonder if the age war and the Stewart/Colbert rally might be Nate Silvers gamechanger, here in Colorado at least.
The Boulder and Fort Collins college radio stations are full of anti-Buck ads.
Buck apparently is against government student loans!!!!, and ALL abortion including rape and incest (the Palin position).
and the uberstupid life-at-conception bill has reared its fugly head again here in the home of “focus on the family”.
never give up, never surrender.
God bless us everyone
We’re a broken people living under loaded gun
And it can’t be outfought
It can’t be outdone
It can’t be outmatched
It can’t be outrun
matoko_chan
/sigh
moderation again.
WP hates youtube? Linkin Park? young people?
joe from Lowell
@madmatt:
Actually, I did.
Oh, that’s probably just because these institutions that spend tens of millions of dollars every year to understand and influence the government just don’t understand their interests and the actions of the Democratic White House and Congress as well as you do, random internet commenter d00d.
Does any of that look at all familiar? I guess it just went over your tiny, little head.
I don’t explain to the crazy homeless guy that the CIA isn’t sending messages through his fillings, either.
Draw your own conclusions about why that might be, and what it has to do with you.
joe from Lowell
@tim:
Because the message sent to the political system by someone not voting isn’t “Dissatisfied with system” but “Doesn’t care.”
If you really want to send the message that you are dissatisfied with the choices in a particular election, submit a blank ballot. Better yet, on a ballot with multiple races, vote only in those races in which there is a significantly better candidate, and leave the others blank.
A party that sees a big gap in the number of votes for a good State Senate candidate and a Republican-lite Congressional candidate within a particular town is going to get a clear message from that.
ricky
@matoko_chan:
Long periods of moderation, like non voting, send a message too.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
Hee. I do always love it when people claim that the very easiest thing they can do is somehow Revolutionary! And Full of Protest!
I think the term “slacktivist” was invented for guys like tim.
gene108
@tim: Well nothing about ponies or colored ribbons, but there was an interesting statement (by Barney Frank, I think) about the fact the only way a Congressman can lose his job is to lose an election.
If you don’t vote, you aren’t costing them anything because you have no influence over whether or not he gets elected again.
You only marginalize yourself and your agenda by not voting.
********************************
On a side note to angry liberals, do you really think there’s another Party, who will actually pick up parts of the liberal agenda and try to enact it other than the Democrats?
The problem with the liberal agenda not being enacted is the lack of a strong liberal movement in this country to drum up public support for anything from single payer to more labor unions.
The conservatives have spent the past 35+ years building their infrastructure, through think-tanks, media outlets, etc. to push their agenda.
The liberals relied on mass movements, like the labor movement in the 1930’s and the Civil Rights movement of the 1960’s to rally public support. When those movements petered out, there wasn’t anything in place to push back against what has become a very well oiled conservative machine.
If you don’t want to vote, but want to influence things you need to keep building and sustaining a mass movement. Whatever movements have been at it, have born some fruit. The Gay Rights movement has turned opinion on gay rights significantly around, over the past 20 years, from being a marginal issue to something in the forefront of politics.
There are probably other examples out there, but taking your ball, going home, and blogging on the internet doesn’t get you very far.
Mnemosyne
@mslarry:
Given that there are still people out there who talk semi-seriously about repealing the 19th amendment so they can get rid of my right to vote, I can’t help but look at these whiny privileged white guys and shake my head. It’s like they’ve never, ever had to even consider the idea that someone might stop them from voting so they can treat it like a gift to be withheld.
joe from Lowell
@madmatt:
I don’t know, exactly, who you are.
I don’t know if you’re a woman who is now less likely to get ripped off by sexist bosses because of the Lily Ledbetter Act.
I don’t know if you’re the gay partner/spouse of a federal employee, now able to enjoy all sorts of benefits formerly reserved only for straight spouses.
I don’t know if you have a credit card, and are now protected against all sorts of scams from card issuers because of the Credit Card Holders Bill of Rights.
I don’t know if you are involved in consumer credit at all, and are now better protected against predators because of the CFPA.
I don’t know if you are a sick child, or someone about to graduate college, or someone with a pre-existing condition, and will now be able to get health insurance because of the health insurance reform bill.
I know you’re a taxpayer, and are now protected from having to bail out financial companies because of the fin reg bill.
I don’t know if you’re one of the millions of people employed because of the stimulus bill.
But, there you go.
Belafon (formerly anonevent)
@tim: Because, tim, while the bankers may be giving lots of money for ads, elected officials will ultimately listen to those that actually vote. If you choose not to vote, but some conservative does, then congresspeople will learn that being conservative gets them votes.
You can only punish them by voting for their primary opponent. You reward them by voting for them because they are doing what you want more than the other person would. No one said the system was perfect.
celiadexter
Thank you for reminding me that I have to get my ass to a phone bank this weekend. I hate calling strangers when they’re having dinner or whatever, but I managed to do it in ’08 and there’s just as much at stake now.
gene108
@madmatt: Because liberals didn’t spend the past 16 years, since the failure of “Hillary-care” to tout how much better single payer would be for this country, than the current system.
They didn’t lay much groundwork for any truly liberal alternative.
The conservatives and corporate interest, on the other hand, are actively pushing the notion that socialized medicine = healthcare rationing = universal coverage and once we have universal coverage, you get assigned to a government doctor, whether you like it or not.
TooManyJens
@tim:
Not really. You’re helping to provide cover for the people who are too lazy or indifferent to vote. You’re letting politicians know that they can do whatever they want, and you won’t even try to hold them accountable. You’re exposing more about yourself than about the system.
joe from Lowell
Something I don’t understand is the emo-liberal pout that it is somehow unfair to discuss the importance of voting against Republicans in order to avoid bad things.
I mean, didn’t these people live in this country (or, perhaps, Iraq) during 2001-2007? Didn’t they see what happens when Republicans win elections?
Most of the votes I’ve cast in my life have been negative, defensive votes. Do you think I liked Bill Clinton the two times I voted for him? I’ve had the privilege of voting for Ted Kennedy, Barney Frank, Eileen Donoghue (Lowell’s next state senator) and some great primary challengers in my day, but for the most part, I’ve voted mainly to stop the Movement Conservative agenda from being implemented.
I think it’s pretty damn important to stop that agenda, because it’s horrifically inhumane and self-destructive. How can avoiding the provision of greater power to James Inhofe or Dick Armey or Tom Delay not be a legitimate, important goal?
mslarry
@Mnemosyne:
I know right? I suffer from the “disease 2 please” and I’m a buddhist which means I’m polite to a fault. Therefore, I comment here regularly, but never ever get in people’s faces. But as the morning has worn on and I’ve had some time to consider those who are whining about not voting… I’m getting more and more angry. You mean to tell me that there’s not a judge, a school commissioner or a proposition about which you feel strongly enough to vote? It’s disgusting really, ugh.
And as for the health insurance bill, yeah it wasn’t perfect, but my middle-class ass just signed onto the pre-existing condition exchange in CA and I have health insurance for the first time in two years. It ain’t perfect but it’s better than worrying about what would happen if I suddenly became ill.
Scott de B.
Hilarious. Reminds me of the elections of 2000 in Spain. The radical Basque separatist party, Euskal Herritarrok, had not done well in preceding elections, only getting a few percent of the vote. So they boycotted the elections. Then, afterwards, they claimed that the 40% or so of Basques who didn’t vote were also making a statement that they wanted to “delegitimize and expose a bogus political system,” and that therefore they had a plurality. It was stupid then, it’s stupid now.
matoko_chan
okfine ill post the nonlink(in) part.
im working campus GOTV in colorado and I wonder if the age war and the Stewart/Colbert rally might be Nate Silvers gamechanger, here in Colorado at least.
The Boulder and Fort Collins college radio stations are full of anti-Buck ads.
Buck apparently is against government student loans, and ALL abortion including rape and incest (the Palin position).
and the uberstupid life-at-conception bill has reared its fugly head again here in the home of “focus on the family”.
the wingnuts put that on the ballot again to bring out the WECs and the godbotherers/christofacists.
it lost in 2008 by 75% of the vote
matoko_chan
still moderated even without link.
fine mistermix.
i get the message.
MaskedBandit
I’ve been canvasing neighborhoods in Salt Lake City for the Peter Corroon governor campaign (D Gov, R Lt Gov). The focus has been trying to get people to vote Dem early if possible, so we can focus on lazy voters as election day nears. (Due to prior engagements, I won’t be volunteering again until next Monday.)
I’ve never canvassed before, and it has been an interesting experience. I’ve been through neighborhoods where the voters were pretty enthusiastic and friendly. I’ve helped elderly people with poor health sign up to vote by mail. The last neighborhood was mostly listed as independents, so I got plenty of non-committal “we haven’t decided yet” responses.
The Republican-oriented neighborhood had a number of elderly folks unwilling to do more than crack open their doors for a stranger. It was strange: a palpable sense of fear and a firm commitment to voting republican. The lone democratic supporter in that neighborhood wasn’t surprised, and suggested that his neighbors voted for whomever the Mormon Church wanted. This was the only neighborhood where someone cussed me out for going door-to-door.
I did encounter two voters who felt that Corroon had betrayed the Democratic Party by choosing a moderate Republican running-mate. Personally, I feel it’s a smart strategy for a state that is so Republican oriented. No Dem/Dem ticket will get elected in this state, and Allen is a sensible and ethical candidate.
/Not looking forward to the way the legislature draws up the districts this next term.
Kerry Reid
@mistermix:
Sir, this is a thing of beauty and a joy forever. If there are people reading this who actually live someplace where VOTING is the only “lesser of two evils” choice they face in their lives (and they only have to engage in that every two years if they’re even semi-active as voters), then I would certainly love to live in their CandyLand.
As someone who has too much experience with cancer in my family, allow me to extend the analogy:
“Why should I bother to get chemo? It will make me vomit, cause my hair to fall out, give me a rash, make me tired all the time — and there’s not even a guarantee that it will beat that Rat Bastard cancer! Maybe all it will do is buy me a few years where I can enjoy some time with my loved ones, but that’s just incremental change and not worth anything! Plus, it just enriches the military/health-insurance/bankster/Big Pharma complex!”
Triassic Sands
Mid-term elections routinely have low turnout in this country, even when Barack Obama isn’t destroying the universe. I’m always shocked by people who don’t bother to vote (in any election), but the sad truth is that Americans don’t treat voting as either an obligation or an important responsibility.
I suspect that most Democrats who are genuinely upset about Obama are probably going to vote, since their gripe is with Obama and not Democrats in general. More to the point, even those who are pissed at both Obama and the Democrats in general are more than likely to be favorably disposed toward their own representative and senators. Anyone paying enough attention to be genuinely upset seems to me to be reasonably likely to vote. If they don’t vote, it will more likely be a repetition of the usual poor mid-term turn out, which is based on ignorance and sloth, not anger at anyone.
Mnemosyne
Also, if tim is still around, I would like him to explain how the choice I have between Barbara Boxer and Carly Fiorina is exactly the same as choosing between Pol Pot and Idi Amin because, after all, Boxer and Fiorina have exactly the same beliefs and will vote the exact same way, amirite?
Oh, and then you can tell me how Jerry Brown and Meg Whitman are virtual twins and will take the exact same actions to try and get California out of the hole we’re in so it doesn’t matter which one I vote for. I could use the laugh.
Suck It Up!
@joe from Lowell:
Fantastic answer!
platonicspoof
PVA (Perverted Voters Anonymous) meeting:
“My name is Joe and I’m a pervert.”
“Hiii, Joe!”
“I’m unable to stop myself from reading politics and issues crap, so in my perverse thinking, it’s impossible to resist when I get to vote on these things. Primary season is the worst time.”
“I’m unable to relate to people who can’t find at least one candidate or issue that they just can’t resist voting either for or against out of dozens on a ballot.”
“I realize I’m only one voter, I’ve always been only one voter, and I’ll always be just one voter, but then it is a perversion.”
“Please, dear Dog in the Sky, let me be indifferent and confused and discouraged and afraid of getting fooled again just like normal people when I vote, if I vote at all.”
Nick
@Scott de B.:
far-left parties in Italy in 2006 and 2008 same thing. They didn’t do particularly well in 2006, though the left coalition narrowly, and I mean narrowly, won power. They felt ignored, so they boycotted 2008, got swept out of Parliament and were like “we MEANT to get swept from Parliament to show how important we are!”
trollhattan
@joe from Lowell:
Can I add:
You haven’t spent the last two years in the clutches of the McCain-Palin administration.
Sheesh, some people.
Chris Johnson
Failing to stop Republicans killed one hundred thousand Iraqi civilians, including women and children.
How many Iranian women and children would you like to kill next?
Voting matters to more than just you.
madmatt
@mslarry: .spoken like somebody who can AFFORD the premium…how about the rest of us who don’t have that kind of money and will get punished for not being able to afford it?
Kerry Reid
@madmatt:
You pay a small fine in the form of a tax penalty if you choose not to purchase insurance through the state-run risk pools. And there are hardship exemptions even for that.
That’s it. No one puts you in jail — much less holds you down and “rapes” you (and you can apologize for equating “being forced to pay money to access a government-subsidized service” with “having a cock or other objects forcibly shoved into your orifices causing extreme physical and emotional harm” any old time, you POS)
OTOH, if you are in an accident and don’t have health insurance, everyone who pays taxes pays for your “coverage” at the ER. Do you think that’s fair?
Kerry Reid
@madmatt:
Seriously, it sounds like you’re not enjoying life. So may I suggest the cheap and easy alternative of offing yourself? Or can you not afford the plastic garbage bags and duct tape?
Dog is My Co-Pilot
In our state (Washington), we vote by mail. I already sent in my ballot, as did my husband. Go, Patty Murray!!!
sparky
a few observations about comments in this thread:
1. to the extent that deciding to not vote is a decision (as distinct from not being bothered to consider voting), deciding to not vote can be a political act. that people here may not agree with it doesn’t mean it isn’t. likewise, that it ends up not counting either way doesn’t make it a non-political act. it just makes it an act that doesn’t count to a political party. refusing to participate in a process that one believes is so flawed or so meaningless is an expression just as voting is, just a different kind.
2. it is interesting that despite all the invective, no one actually came up with anything substantive as to how exactly things are different whether one votes or doesn’t. from a large-scale policy perspective, at the moment the only possible exception to this at the national level, and at the moment it’s still possible for it to go either way, is the health insurance legislation.*
as there are no significant differences between the oligarchies otherwise, any other argument about some significant difference is either speculative or a form of willful blindness.
speaking only for myself, while i understand that for some people no additional justification is needed, voting for the oligarchy/war complex with a D in front of it is not necessarily a good enough ground. if anything, i find it is an argument for abandoning the party and working outside of established institutions. for example, spending the time on attempting to fix the political system via constitutional amendments, or muckraking. at the risk of boring whoever might still be reading, please note that these suggestions are outside of a party, but not outside the system as such.
IMO, it’s fair to say that truly local races may, sometimes, be an exception, as local officials can exercise a great deal of power over local issues.
3.
that’s your opinion.
while i understand the value of rhetoric, i’d suggest another tack.
edit: oopsie, forgot the FN:
*as i have maintained throughout this time, a giveaway to insurers does not strike me as a great achievement. YMMV.
Mnemosyne
@sparky:
Ah, the same argument that liberals have been making since 1968. How’s that been working out for the past 40 years?
Since the country has been sliding to the right ever since lefties and liberals decided to remove themselves from electoral politics and focus on trying to do things from outside the system, my answer would be “not too well,” but YMMV.
Paula
“Progressive” fuckwits can go ahead and not vote. Since so many of them now post so damn much in here about “taking a stand” against Democrats, when they come back and complain about a lack of progressive agenda items, they can get told: you give nothing, you get nothing.
And yes: posting on a blog=nothing.
Paula
@sparky:
So why not go full-tilt and work for a third party, or leave political activism altogether? What I mostly don’t understand is the incomprehensible position of 1) maintaining that your “side” is a “significant part” of the base and therefore must be listened to, and 2) then “withholding” your participation because they haven’t paid attention — but 3) still maintaining that you somehow have an effect on the mainstream party at large by withholding. As several people here have pointed out, you’re only silencing yourself.
Fuck this logic. I’m all for making stands — just don’t be incomprehensible and illogical because that pretty much negates the whole idea of “making a stand”.
Mnemosyne
@sparky:
Okay, the non-sarcastic version:
I would argue that lefties and liberals removed themselves from electoral politics a long time ago, and we’ve seen the results of that as Republicans gained more and more electoral strength and captured most of the “nonpartisan” bureaucracy in Washington DC. Why do you want to double down on the same strategy that’s been failing for 40 years? I really do want to know.
Kerry Reid
@Paula:
Exactly. If one decides to vote Green to give a third party with more progressive values some attention, I can understand that (I voted Green rather than go for Blago in 2006). But as my grandfather used to say “Shit or get off the pot.”
If you want to be taken seriously by the mainstream Dems, you don’t play drama-queen histrionics (“Maybe I’ll vote, maybe I won’t”) and expect to get a seat at the table as part of the loyal base. If you truly think the two-party system is broken, then “not voting” isn’t doing anything to fix it. “Organizing for a viable third party candidate” is. (I believe the Socialists have themselves a nice little Senator in the form of Bernie Sanders — though the Firebaggers assure us that by supporting the Affordable Care Act in return for more money for community public health services for the poorest of the poor, he “sold out.”)
Shit, why do you think that the most progressive members of Congress tend to be black? African Americans stayed with the Dems and hammered away, bit by bit, even as they faced some pretty horrific betrayals (FDR shelving federal anti-lynching legislation to get Southern Dems on board with the New Deal, for example). Seen any Whiny-Ass Short-Attention-Span Overentitled White MoFos caucus in the House lately? Maybe because it’s easier to flap the gums and pout than to do the hard boots-on-the-ground work.
Kerry Reid
@Kerry Reid:
I mean, I have — but not of the “Self-Proclaimed Only True and Pure Progressive” variety.
Kerry Reid
I used the “S” word describing Bernie Sanders and am in moderation. Lo siento!
Carol
@merrinc: That’s right, Obama started as a State Senator. Your next, next President might be running for your state Assembly this year.
The demographics of America are changing, and in some places more than you can expect. Voting for Democrats in red, red areas at least keeps the party alive until a few more Tea Party types go underground and allow for a win.
Mnemosyne
@Kerry Reid:
I think that’s what the Blue Dogs are. ;-)
Kerry Reid
@Mnemosyne:
I know! That’s why I had to amend myself (an act that would be illegal under President O’Donnell, by the way).
But yeah — I’ll never understand how “taking my ball and going home” translates into “I just won the World Series.” I suspect some people who use that philosophy politically also fail to understand why they keep ending up with bootprints on their butts in personal relationships — they can’t figure out that the Significant Other gets tired of keeping track of all the Goofy Care-and-Feeding Requirements For The Very Special Progressive Partner, plus hearing all the empty threats of “If you don’t give me just what I want when I want it, no matter what other problems are on your plate, I may not be your boyfriend/girlfriend anymore!” Okay. Buh-bye.
Carol
@Kerry Reid: And speaking as a black person, that strategy has paid off, both electorally and financially. Keeping the Democrats in charge of Congress from the 1990’s to 1994 kept alive programs like Student Loans, affordable housing, Fair Housing in lending and renting, Job Corps, aid to HBCU’s, all of which helped develop a strong black middle class. Let’s not forget access to union labor pools, strong civil service employment, and other measures. That stretch of control effectively killed the KKK and other groups as a major force in politics-which is why they now talk about militia movements, they can’t get elected statewide most places these days.
Now if we could do urban renaissance, and reverse outsourcing….
Carol
@nevsky42: Troops out of Iraq is huge. Think of all of the soldiers who are now coming home to stay. We are even committed to a short stay in Afghanistan as well. Those families who no longer fear a knock on the door or a phone call in the night was worth the vote. If it were up to John McCain, we would be in Iran right now because he would listen full stop to the neocons and other warmongers. Iran is a fairly advanced and wealthy country that is more numerous. How many funerals would we be having now due to that, and we won’t be having because Obama is not a hotheaded senile and resentful guy?
Kerry Reid
@Carol:
And white progressives and white working-class and middle-class people also benefited from all of that — yet somehow they seem a little less than grateful about it sometimes. Curious.
Nick
@Kerry Reid:
Gods, Guns and Gays
Califlander
John, I am deeply disappointed with the color of the ribbon in my pony’s mane.
I’m also disappointed that this Administration continues to go to court in an effort to keep some members of my family from following in my footsteps with a career in the armed forces.
Nonetheless, Mrs. C and I went to our polling place Sunday and voted for every damn Democrat on the ballot.