One of my brothers has been dj-ing all weekend (btw- how awesome is modern technology- plug the laptop in to the stereo and go!), and this song came up and I hadn’ heard it in years, but the whole album rocked:
Also learned this weekend that one of my brothers, Matt Mastrangelo, is now the publisher of Rolling Stone, which is kind of cool. He ran the radio station when I was there, and always was a genius when it came to finding new music, and he was also a great guy, so this is unsurprising that he is where he is. I remember him playing Julian Cope back before you heard it anywhere else- guy just had an ear for talent and a smooth manner when dealing with people. Good on him.
BTW- I’m an Alpha Sig (Alpha Sigma Phi), I’m very, very proud of it, yet I see a bunch of you acting weird in the comments as if joining a fraternity is some kind of bad thing. For fucks sake, get over it, you independent minded mother fuckers. I have friends I’ve known for twenty years sitting my couch, and I would do anything for them, and they would do anything for me. In what fucked up world is a little brotherhood a bad thing?
Joey Maloney
When I was in college – I think I’m about 10 years older than you – all the fraternity boys I knew were snobbish, entitled, self-centered assholes. Only some of them were racists and rapists, so I guess that’s something.
I gather times have changed. I was forced to confront this when my nieces went to college and started joining sororities. They’re all self-possessed, independent minded young women and genius level smart. And not sluts.
So I had to deal with that cognitive dissonance, which I did by coming to the conclusion that – hold on to your hats, now – Greeks were individuals too.
Yutsano
Haters gotta hate JC. Just shake it off and move on. If you’re in a bond like that you get it. If you’re not it’s a hard concept tp grasp.
asiangrrlMN
Hey, I wasn’t dissing it. I was just surprised. My view of frats are the same as Joey’s, although it shouldn’t be considering that my ex in college belong to the frat that ran the AV for Friday night movies. I think it’s cool if you got a band of brothers with whom you can chill.
Moses2317
Using the open thread to mention Friday’s poll showing Democrats with a 50-42 lead among definite voters in the Congressional elections. The conservative media probably won’t trumpet it, but we should.
Winning Progressive
Sly
I had two reasons not to join a fraternity.
The first was that, though I had friends in a few frats, they also had members who I wouldn’t piss on if they caught fire. I’m fairly gregarious when it comes to making friends, but I’m not a big fan of being expected to hang out with people I don’t like.
The second was that I went to a city school, so the opportunities to “socialize” were prevalent enough that the benefits of being in a frat were largely minimal. This had the additional effect of forcing frats to be more tightly knit, so it would have been harder to avoid the circumstances underlying the first reason. Their parties still sucked, however.
It’s good that you still keep in touch with friends from college. Many people can’t say the same.
philly71
John,
I get that too from the people. The bond is real and a lot of my brothers still keep in touch getting close to 20 years later. We still have a camping trip once a year. I get it.
Barb (formerly Gex)
Much like some of the other topics today, my feeling is that there are a lot of fraternities, only a few of which fit the stereotype of popular culture and (bad) news makers. I’m guessing the vast majority of fraternities, as well as the vast majority of brothers are just regular people. Which means they’re fucked up and sometimes assholes just like everyone else.
ETA: Agree on the David and David album. Solid front to back.
Cacti
While I’m a loudmouth online, in the real world, I’m a fairly reserved and private person, so social organizations have never really been my cup of tea.
I can understand why other people enjoy them though.
fucen tarmal
julian cope was nothing with out the teardrop explodes…i am surpised you didn’t post “world, shut your mouth”, or are you saving it for another occasion? now ask him to find “jane is getting serious” by jon, not rick, astley. i agree about david and david, they were perhaps a bit too morose for the light pop category they were jammed into, which is a shame.
CP
While I don’t have any issue with Fraternity loyalty, I can see where there is a mistrust of it. I rushed a high profile frat at an Ivy league school and was accepted as a pledge. After a good talking to with the girls I knew there, I bailed and said “F” that. I’m only a few years younger than you are (i.e. born 1975), so I think the the point is relevant. My roommate sophomore year was an ASP pledge (Rockledge) and we wanted to kill his recruiters due to their douchebag tactics. The problem, as always, is extending that loyalty to others who do not deserve it based on a few greek letters.
Chris
TrishB
Wow. No fraternity or sorority ties here. The college banned fraternities when they went co-ed. But damn, that album is lost somewhere in my parents’ basement, and I need it back.
Mark
Of frat boys, Christian Slater put it best in Heathers: “They had nothing left to offer but date rape and AIDS jokes.”
I played club hockey in college. Lots of frat guys on my team…They were generally ok. The sorority girls were awful though…
piratedan
Well back at Carolina, there were Frats and then there were “Frats”. Some we’re chock full of guys who were well supported by Mom and Dad and wore the right clothes and damned if they all didn’t look alike and sound alike. I was part of that other group that was probably closer to the representation found on the Island of Misfit Toys. Same type of brotherhood and bond, same kind of male bonding idiocy and friendship. The type of group you join is only as good as its membership, some are elitist, others are inclusive. My Greek time and cash was money well spent as it helped moderate some of the lows and experience many of the highs of campus life.
While Welcome to the Boomtown was certainly cool our group was much more excited by Rockpile’s Seconds of Pleasure vinyl. as always, ymmv
srv
Then they’re all voting for Dems next month?
Steeplejack
I had forgotten that song “Welcome to the Boomtown.” Cool. The ’80s really were the decade of one-hit wonders. And I mean that in a good way.
Arclite
@ John,
I’m glad it works for you and I don’t think less of you (not that you care what I think). For me frats smacked of the same kind of tribalism and exceptionalism and IOKIYAR that has so F’d up our system and that so many great people from LBJ to JC to MLK have worked to overcome. Frats and their members revolted me, and I did my best to stay away. I truly feel part of college should be about overcoming divisions personally and in society and frats are an anathema to that.
GregB
My brother and his college buddies went rogue and created their own frat.
They called it FU and their coat of arms was a shield with an FU and criss-crossed by a hockey stick and a joint.
Great parties.
HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist
Well it’s not a bad thing.
But I think some of us are by nature a little suspicious of the “joiner” mentality that values membership in an artificial group over, say, a shared interest in some activity or profession.
I’ll also agree with Joey that a lot of the frat dudes on my campus seemed like these arrogant pricks with a fairly mean air of superiority to them.
suzanne
I graduated from Arizona in ’02. We had a frat there that lost it’s charter for making pledges do “the elephant walk”. I still have no idea why supposedly intelligent people might want to become part of that organization. I get that not all frats are about being assholes, but the asshole quotient does seem to be higher among fratboys and sorority girls than in the general population.
Ultimately, though, whatever trips your trigger.
Spiffy McBang
@HE Pennypacker, Wealthy Industrialist: I just graduated from college and would talk with classmates about how the frat/sorority people at the recruitment booths almost never talked to anyone except those (often obviously brothers/sisters) who were hanging out. Very few could be bothered with anything resembling recruiting- just wooden stands with the Greek letters and literally nothing else. It all spoke to what you said- the joiner mindset and how it leads people who find a group to act superior to those without.
Frats (or societies or whatever) based on specific shared interests or majors make sense. But those that exist solely to gather members are, I believe, relics.
BeccaM
I was a ‘little sister’ to a fraternity — and unlike all the stereotypes or bad stories one might consider — I was never treated badly, never asked or pressured to do stuff I didn’t want to do, and always knew the brothers had my back.
No, no intendre intended.
Once, coming back from a trip, I found myself in town without a place to stay or a ride or more than $20 to my name. With one phone call, I had a room to myself, a pizza to share, and a safe haven.
Fraternities aren’t necessarily a bad thing. And stereotypes are unfounded.
Loneoak
One of your brothers is the RS publisher? When can we expect some Taibbi action around this dump?
R-Jud
Greeks were on the way out at my college when I turned up, but my older brother, who was a gawky guy in high school, really benefited from joining his fraternity. And the brothers of his that I’ve met seem to be pretty neat guys.
freelancer
Yeah, it was so much fun in college to hang out with people that I paid to be my friends. There might even be a major motion picture about the meta of that being released this very weekend. Shit, wait.
My name is freelancer for a reason. I remain unaffiliated. Fuck the haters, Cole, they’re united for irrational reasons. Everyone that’s united is usually irrational to begin with.
USA USA USA USA!
Shit, wait.
Fuck it, who are the Saints and the Eggles playing tomorrow?
goatchowder
Gotta love the very prominent and obvious Rockman chorus and distortion on the guitar, and total 80’s synths and drum machine. And it was written by David Bauerwald, who later wrote “All I Wanna Do Is Have Some Fun” and “Leaving Las Vegas”, and then got kicked to the curb (along with the rest of the TMC) by Sheryl Crow.
That song is about L.A. It is deeply emotional for me. I moved there like a week or two before that song came out, and it was all over the radio and MTV. I had just turned 20. It was the soundtrack to my adventure there. Listening to it now, I can hear, feel, and smell Los Angeles in the summer of 1986. Weird.
Fuck, that was 24 years ago. Just writing “1986” seems so odd, so ancient, even though it wasn’t that long ago. But it WAS that long ago: 24 years.
Hearing this song now, I’m noticing for the first time how much of a country and western style voice and delivery he had or used on that, and how odd it sounds amidst all the cheesy 80’s synths, and how much the guitar line sounds like prog rock– Steve Hackett or Robert Fripp–, and how odd that is in there too. I remember liking it at the time because of the prog-y guitar, as much as because it was about LA and captured the plastic sheen of the place so well.
All I’d need to go with it are Nagel prints, black Ikea furniture, ferns, and a plate of blackened anything.
electricgrendel
Well- at my university SAE was kicked off campus for setting a girl on fire by accident. And Sigma Nu got suspended because they held a pledge’s arm over a fire while he was supposed to recite some pledge but ended up getting 2nd degree burns. Then there’s…I think it was Kappa Alpha?…that got their house taken away after six brothers went on a drunken tear through the university attacking and harrassing minorities. And finally we come to Sigma Chi, who threw rocks and dirt at my vehicle while it was being used by Lambda (the GLBT group at Vandy) and Vandy CARES (the HIV prevention and outreach organization) in the homecoming parade through frat row.
My favorite frat story, though, is The Machine on University of Alabama. They basically ran student life until one year this sorority girl who was not chose by then decided she has a right to run for SGA president. Someone broke into her apartment and savagely beat her, but was sure to tell her “get out of the race” before leaving. Minda Riley is her name.
So- I’m glad you had a good time in your frat. I’m sure there are good and decent frat boys that grow up to be good and decent men. Just like I’m sure somewhere we can find good and decent conservatives. It’s the rest of the pampered assholes that make me hate the greek system.
mslarry
I went to college in the 90s and pretty much the moment I was accepted I looked forward to my sophomore year (black frats and sororities don’t pledge freshman). I couldn’t wait to be a part of the organization that every every woman in my family, since the 1940s has membership — notice I said has and not had.
Amongst black folks, our sororities and fraternities are revered. So much so that after graduation you are encouraged to “stay active” your whole life (the organizations are volunteer based) and may still pledge with your local “grad chapter”, with a four year degree. My baby brother pledged “the family frat” while he was in business school.
These groups are highly selective and have a pledging process that is based upon West African rites of passage. So, while you’re a pledge, you’re literally put on “line”. From that moment on, you are seen as one unit.
When I was pledging, being on line also meant when class was out, you walked as one — dressed identically, in size order, faces pressed into the back of your “line sister’s” head. You couldn’t see where you were walking and were forced to trust the line sisters in front of you to guide you. The ritual helps you form an unwavering bond. Plus, in order to reinforce your “oneness” your big sisters referred to you by your line number or name (the names represented an admirable quality you possessed). These rituals are modified for those who pledge after their undergrad years.
After several weeks of pledging, we literally “crossed” — can’t get into specifics about what that entails. The process is sacred and a secret, but let’s just say it was a powerful moment. Perhaps those of you who went to college with a significant black population witnessed some black kids in the midst of pledging?
It’s been nearly fifteen years and I’m still active. If you look up most prominent African-Americans, in any field, you’ll find they’re proud members of a sorority or fraternity.
All of this is just to say, rock on with your bad self John. From my viewpoint, though I know you could care less, being a “greek” is honorable and cool.
Linda Featheringill
Glad you had a good time. Glad you had a good time with your brothers in college. Glad you guys can still be friends.
I resented the rich kids with a kind of snobbishness. A snob is a snob is a snob.
Many of us who worked our way through college resented the extended childhood enjoyed by the greeks.
I would like to hear from some of the folks who worked those charming little parties. I wonder what opinions they might hold.
Omnes Omnibus
OK, if we are doing this, fine…. Greek systems and individual Greek letter societies vary from campus to campus. I went to a small, private liberal arts college that did not have Rush until January. As a result, freshmen had a chance to adjust to college life, make friends, and get to know the Greeks before making a decision. I think it worked out well as a whole. People joined groups they wanted to join or not. The fraternities and sororities also benefited from the system. They were able to look for people they really wanted and avoid those who made a good first impression but turned out to be assholes upon closer inspection (if they chose to do so). Most people developed friendships with people who joined every fraternity and sorority as well as those who chose not to join. I joined what was considered to be the “best” house on campus (student government, the preppy sports, student newspaper, access to good pharma, etc.). When I look at my Facebook friends from that group, I find a lot of liberal Democrats, including a member of the Dem leadership in the WI legislature, a few libertarians, relatively few Republicans, some doctors, several other lawyers, a research librarian, couple of film-makers, and the usual mix that you get from a small, selective school. I wonder if the experience is different at a larger school.
Phil
Fellow Alpha Sig here, John — Alpha Mu chapter (Baldwin-Wallace College), 1988. I knew there was a reason I liked you! Plus we share among our brotherhood Warren Buffett, so if things get really desperate maybe we can hit him up for some dough.
Jim C
@Linda Featheringill:
I don’t know where you went to college, but it sounds like a vastly different experience than my own.
With few exceptions (a tractor driver for a hayride, a couple djs and bartenders for formals, and some student union bartenders for one memorable event) we, the fraternity brothers, worked our own parties – djs, “bartenders” (aka keg tap operator), or the occasionally mandated doormen. Even the snobby houses, which there certainly were, had the same protocol. Maybe it was because this was a state school, or we just didn’t know better. Ah, who am I kidding? We knew better, we preferred to spend our money on booze.
Also, too, at least a quarter of my fraternity worked through college. There were some bouncers, a couple of bartenders, a trio of pizza guys, a lifeguard, and several work-study guys – including a Cambus driver (the University’s mass transit line).
But, as Alan Thicke once wrote, “Now the world don’t move to the beat of just one drum. What might right for him, may not be right for some!”
numbskull
Only guy who ever stole from me in college was a fratboy. Isolated incident, of course, but his “brothers” protected him even though they knew 1) he was a total shit and they really didn’t like him; 2) they knew he stole the property from (hell, it was displayed in his room; and 3) some of them were teammates of mine (and former, at that point, friends).
But some frats are like that. Where the rubber meets the road, that’s their ultimate function: protect the “brothers”, no matter what. And their parties sucked.
Other frats are totally different, like the one my (actual) brother joined. His was pretty much all service, all the time. You did not join that frat unless you wanted to help at clinics, clean up rivers and creeks, work hotlines, rescue animals, etc. Totally civic-oriented. And their parties rocked. Hell, I think I’m still hung over from the last one, which 40 years ago! :)
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim C: As I said above, private school here, but we generally worked our own parties as well. At closed parties, our cook would do hors d’oeuvres, but that was about it.
Tim F.
FYI, you got a lot more shit about the Tuaca, but you never answered that. Because you can’t. Now apologize to your liver.
Omnes Omnibus
@Tim F.: I think he understands that getting shit about the Tuaca was completely deserved and that he has no answer for it.
Margarita
Comments 26 and 27 pretty much cover it.
morzer
I belong to the Groucho Marx frat, but then, I’ve always been a Marxist and kinda grumpy.
Joey Maloney
@electricgrendel:
Another thing my nieces taught me is that you can’t generalize about a frat or sorority. They’re highly variable from chapter to chapter. One niece went to Auburn and her sorority there was serious about academics and serious about public service. Same org, different chapter (at Ole Miss, I think) are the drunk belly-ring tramps.
But KA is an exception, at least in the south: uniformly racist assholes on every campus.
Thlayli
Me too: Gamma Theta (U. of Miami), 1987.
Those of you that have negative perceptions of the Greek system from your experience, there’s nothing we can say that will change your mind now, so whatev.
CLVEN
Alice Blue
We had three fraternities and three sororities at my small college. Kappa Sigma had the jocks, Pi Kappa Phi had the intellectuals and Delta Tau Delta–well, let’s just say their nickname was “downtown drunks.”
Two of the sororities had their own types, too: Kappa Delta had the bitches on wheels, Phi Mu had the classic southern belles, but Alpha Omicron Pi had a nice mix of different types of women.
Me? I was a member of Gamma Delta Iota (god d**n independent). Didn’t stop me from having friends who were Greeks, though.
eastriver
Get over the critical comments you touchy touch-hole.
You’re skin does indeed look thin in this post.
The Pale Scot
Er… Ok Cole, so it’s a bit like this eh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V9Mfk5UH-8
morzer
@eastriver:
And no-one even mentioned George W. Bush being a former frat-boy…..
Oopsies!
cathaireverywhere
My sorority was great. No bimbos- lots of smart, cool women. Being a part of the group made college more fun.
NobodySpecial
I’m fortunate that my college experience had zero to do with Greeks. Too much of the secret handshake bullshit carrying over into maturity and employment to entice me at all. I see the same kind of shit with gang members, you dig?
Plus, you know, Skull and Bones. Way too many of those kinds of assholes running our country into the dumpster. There probably are good ones out there, but those are the ones you don’t see.
hilzoy
Meh. I was a member of an eating club at Princeton. Why? The campus food sucked, and this way we got to play with the mansion that previous generations had inexplicably made available to us. The eating clubs were a heterogeneous lot; mine had a reputation as being the drug club, but probably had more people who didn’t do drugs at all than most other clubs (in addition to more people with serious drug problems); what it really was was a club full of interesting people who were hard to categorize.
There’s no reason that I can see why anyone outside Princeton should know or care about the clubs, but for some reason, some people seem to have pretty well-formed opinions about them that are wrong. (I blame F. Scott Fitzgerald.)
burnspbesq
“Swallowed by the Cracks” has always been my favorite track from that record. The history of Los Angeles in four minutes.
Adam Lang
Where I went to school, the fraternities were almost all a way for white, entitled, Christian ‘men’ (boys, really) to make sure they never had to associate with people who weren’t exactly like them. They were also associations which pretty much openly and with impunity exercised the following ‘rights’
The right to get so wasted that it was a rare MONDAY night that our local emergency room didn’t treat at least one underage frat boy for alcohol poisoning.
The right to have anonymous, unprotected sex. My roommate joined a frat his sophomore year but couldn’t move into the frat house yet. Regularly, at least twice a week but usually more often, he came back to our room at 8 or so in the morning, and would either tell me all about the ‘hot slut’ (his words) he’d had sex with without knowing her name, without a condom. He had a girlfriend, that he was going to marry, but of course they didn’t have sex, because nice girls don’t do that sort of thing.
They beat up gay people. This was just starting to change (i.e. they were starting to be arrested for it) when I was there, but up until that time they were able to beat the crap out of gay people with impunity. They accidentally severely brain-damaged one guy, though, at the same time that a black woman was elected police chief. After that, they had to be a lot more circumspect about the whole thing. Who knows, some of them may even have stopped.
It was widely believed, but never proven in court, that one particular frat was responsible for burning a cross in said new police chief’s lawn.
So yeah. That’s apparently what a little brotherhood buys you, at least in some regions of the country.
Margarita
Who you gonna believe, me or your lying eyes?
Anton Sirius
I have a feeling I’ve pimped this before when David & David got mentioned, but David Baerwald’s solo album Triage is probably the greatest album you’ve never heard. Heavy, heavy stuff, with a political message that would probably resonate with a lot of BJ readers but filtered through Baerwald’s craftsmanship and pop sensibilities. It’s genius.
Here’s one of the more overtly political tracks: The Got No Shotgun Hydra-Head Octopus Blues
Jewish Steel
Joining any group, except maybe one that has a bass player and a drummer, is hard for me to wrap my mind around.
But if you and your mates remember what a good song “Welcome To The Boomtown” is, I cannot doubt that what you have going is cool thing.
baldheadeddork
David and David was great. My favorite album of the 80’s
John – David Baerwald did another album several years ago that I like even better than Boomtown. Really, really good stuff.
David Baerwald – Here Comes the New Folk Underground
feral1
John, what you’ve got to understand is that at many colleges the fraternity system is highly toxic. I went to the University of Texas in the ’80s and my experience of frats was overwhelmingly negative. They’re the ones that made slavery themed floats, literally killed pledges through alcohol poisoning or drunken accidents during hazing, and generally conducted themselves as douche bags. My opinion of frats didn’t change until I moved to the east coast and became friends with a black gay guy that had belonged to a mixed race fraternity at the University of Maryland. I learned through him that the frat experience really differed from place to place. And I was very impressed that his frat brothers remained his friend after he came out.
damn good mr. jam
Whatever happened to the other David?
Bill Murray
Amazingly I was able to make many friends in college 30 years ago that I still see and talk to without joining a fraternity. I also did not shoot bottle rockets out of a passed out female students butt crack, feel up passed out female students, get caught contributing to the delinquency of a minor or die of alcohol poisoning. OTOH, there were a reasonable number of fraternity members who hated that stuff, not that they wouldn’t support a brother regardless of the charge.
Savannah Baxter
John, like eastriver said, you’re skin is way too thin on this topic. You have people in your life for whom you’d do anything and who would do likewise for you.
Guess what, that’s simply the definition of a good friend. You happened to make these friends while in a fraternity. That doesn’t sanctify the notion of a modern fraternity.
@BeccaM
No, the stereotypes are well founded. Read any local college or university newspaper during the school season to see how well founded they are. Or just read through the numerous examples in this thread.
Just because there are good parts to the modern Greek system in U.S. universities does not mean that the other heinous activities they engage in gets a whitewash.
Corner Stone
@mslarry: Easily one of the scariest fucking things I have read recently.
Thank you for sharing this. I hope you sought and received the appropriate therapy afterward.
hamletta
@mslarry: I went to a school with a lot of African-American Greek orgs, so your post was really interesting. I thought the hazing rituals were really weird, so the background info kinda puts them into perspective.
I never joined a sorority. They were very girly and chipper, and I was suffering enough from culture shock as it was, being a punk rock girl from DC plopped into the wilds of Murfreesboro, TN.
Some of the frats were OK, though. My girlfriend was a little sister to Sigma Nu, and they were pretty nice guys, and the Sig Eps were sweet stoner puppies. The rest I didn’t care for.
Gemina13
Yeah, because some of us never encountered date rape, physical bullying, and homophobia from frat boys and girls. (Although the date rape charge was never leveled at the society girls at my school–just at several of the all-male societies. The society guy I dated was a serial date rapist who was allowed to graduate before the honor committee could throw him out, just because he was great at playing ball.)
Corner Stone
Cole is a joiner, people. I don’t know what about that is hard to understand. He will defend it all to the death on some false premise of “brotherhood” or “bonding” or “just clean fun” or whatever it takes.
Sure, his “brothers” of 20 long years ago would do anything for him. Yep, good call.
From being a frat boy to military to Republican to Obot.
It’s not a hard formula to understand. Shit, he still reveres Reagan.
And after Obama has left the scene I’m sure Cole will move back to whatever next figure gives him a chance to join.
Zuzu's Petals
I get the importance of bonds formed in your younger days.
I didn’t go to college until my 30s, but I’m still super close to a lot of friends from the commune days of my 20s.
The fact that so many of us married and had kids at the same time counts for a lot. In fact, many of the kids and grandkids are friends too.
Zuzu's Petals
@mslarry:
Reminds me of one of the funner Spike Lee movies. Did you find it to be pretty accurate?
Billy K
John Cole, I like and respect you, but fraternities are bullshit. They’re not about inclusion, but exclusion – and they make it easy to rationalize and/or hide horrible behavior.
John Cole
Fuck you people for saying my skin is too thin when some of you assholes are in here basically condemning me as either a rapist for the sin of joining a fraternity.
And fuck you Cornerstone for general reasons. I’m a “joiner?” What the hell does that even mean?
Linkmeister
@suzanne: I started at Arizona in 1968, and joined a geeky frat my first semester. We didn’t fit the Sigma Chi stereotype at all. One of them is a high muckety-muck at the Dept of Energy, another is a nuclear engineer, a third is an astronomer, a fourth is a lay minister in NC, etc., etc. We were not the guys who showed up in police blotters.
Some of them are still friends of mine today.
mslarry
@Corner Stone:
can totally see how it would sound scary. not gonna lie parts of it were for sure, but i guess all i can say is that it’s so ingrained in black college culture that it’s really difficult to explain. . i know i know… don’t mean it to be obnoxious.
as for therapy, yup getting lots of it — but pledging ain’t the reason :)
mslarry
@Zuzu’s Petals:
are you referring to school daze? if so the answer is yes, but the primary difference is that I think that movie took place at an HBCU – whole ‘nother ball of wax there.
Corner Stone
@John Cole:
It’s ok if you’re pissed about your Steelers losing to Fuckhead’s Ravens.
We’re here for you. Unlike your erstwhile “brothers”.
Zuzu's Petals
@mslarry:
Yes, it did take place at a black college…and as I recall touched on some issues about black colleges generally, not just frats and sororities.
Jamey
Re: the whole frat thing: “Trust.” “Unity.” Secret handshakes. Sure, whatever turns your crank.
I’m still best-best friends with a lot of my college chums, too. (Their kids and my kids refer to each other as “cousins.”)
Thing is, though, I didn’t need to get humiliated by a lot of closet cases/Boon-Otter-Bluto wannabes to end up that way.
Germane Jackson
@Corner Stone:
Wow, you sound like a real asshole. Calling Cole a “joiner” on the incredibly successful political blog he started himself is a sweet move.
Corner Stone
@Germane Jackson: I am a real asshole.
But how does that contrast against whatever stupid fucking point you’re rather feebly trying to make in the second sentence?
Germane Jackson
Wat. Two points, not contrasting against each other, whatever that means.
1) You definitely sound like an asshole.
2) It’s a little rich to be calling someone out for being a “joiner” in a comment on a very successful blog that said joiner founded and at which you’re one of thousands of anonymous commenters.
Is that easier to understand?
mslarry
@Zuzu’s Petals:
yes, it dealt with the whole “light-skinned” vs. “dark-skinned” issue. It’s still prevalent for sure. At the end of the day it’s about trying to live up to standards of beauty that aren’t African. So the less kinky your hair the better, especially if it’s long (for women) and thinner lips/noses that are narrow are perceived by some blacks as being more beautiful.
Do you recall Angela Bassett’s mini-tirade after Halle Berry won the oscar? I’m convinced that the light -skin/dark-skin dichotomy was at play.
It seems Angela felt that Halle’s success in Hollywood was largely due to her looks and that darker skinned actresses, like Angela couldn’t get the same parts. I suspect she was right, but it didn’t diminish Halle’s performance. For me, the whole conversation continues to depress me. It’s hard enough to be an “other”, but dealing w/prejudice from your own community just adds a new layer of suckitude that I’d rather avoid.
mslarry
@Zuzu’s Petals:
yes, it dealt with the whole “light-skinned” vs. “dark-skinned” issue. It’s still prevalent for sure. At the end of the day it’s about trying to live up to standards of beauty that aren’t African. So the less kinky your hair the better, especially if it’s long (for women) and thinner lips/noses that are narrow are perceived by some blacks as being more beautiful.
Do you recall Angela Bassett’s mini-tirade after Halle Berry won the oscar? I’m convinced that the light -skin/dark-skin dichotomy was at play.
It seems Angela felt that Halle’s success in Hollywood was largely due to her looks and that darker skinned actresses, like Angela couldn’t get the same parts. I suspect she was right, but it didn’t diminish Halle’s performance. For me, the whole conversation continues to depress me. It’s hard enough to be an “other”, but dealing w/prejudice from your own community just adds a new layer of suckitude that I’d rather avoid.
Corner Stone
@Germane Jackson: So commenting on an anonymous blog is the same as carrying a cherry in your butt cheeks through an obstacle course while getting paddled and then saying “Thank you sir! May I have another!!”
Or whatever stupid fucking rituals are called for to actually, you know, “join” something? As opposed to entering a false e-mail address and typing bullshit?
Pretty clueless Germane.
John Cole
No wonder you hated your fraternity.
Germane Jackson
@Corner Stone:
Yes, they are both forms of joining, though obviously qualitatively different. Starting a blog, running it, attracting a slew of readers and a devoted commentariat–this is roughly the opposite of joining.
I don’t spend much time around here. Are you usually this dim?
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone:
Not all Greek organizations do that kind of thing. Both my fraternity and my university were strongly against hazing, and it did not happen to me or to anyone else of whom I am aware during my time in that house at that university.
Omnes Omnibus
@Corner Stone:
Not all Greek organizations do that kind of thing. Both my fraternity and my university were strongly against hazing, and it did not happen to me or to anyone else of whom I am aware during my time in that house at that university.
eemom
@Germane Jackson:
No, he is usually much worse. He’s about as close as you can come to adopting Assholery as a religion.
Engaging with him is generally a lose-lose proposition. You can find his little buttons and tweak them until he sputters through his entire repertoire of insults and has to start over at the beginning, but that gets old after a while.
Corner Stone
@John Cole: I was going with the “Family Guy” SCOTUS hazing episode.
Corner Stone
@eemom: What a sad little grunting muppet you are.
Poor thing.
Ruckus
@Germane Jackson:
Yes. Yes he can be.
Corner Stone
@Ruckus: Oh, Ruckus. I thought we had something special.
Keith G
@Corner Stone: Feeling your oats today, I see.
General Stuck
@Keith G:
Breakfast of Champions for a horse’s ass.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: It’s a beautiful day in H-Town amigo.
Windows open, frisbee throwing, bike riding good times.
Cacti
@Joey Maloney:
I had few interactions with the greek community in my college days, but I do remember KA being known as the date rape fraternity on campus.
Zuzu's Petals
@mslarry:
Interesting points. Thanks.
General Stuck
Anyone joining a fraternity in the early 70’s where I went to school was considered a capitalist fascist pig, and though i wasn’t political, I wasn’t completely stupid either/
I did let my family talk me into joining ROTC in 71, because I could get no draft deferment and my lotto pick was 69. That lasted about a week, when I showed up for formation with my long hair put up under my hat and the true believers dint appreciate it when I told them, imagine that, me working for you. So ended my joining phase in college and unfortunate draft dodging adventure.
But I got nothin’ against frats, then or now.
Keith G
@Corner Stone:
I worked a good part of the day, 6-3, whipping up goodies for others. My weekend begins now. I see we will have freakishly fantastic weather for quite a while – making up for the hell that was August.
I bought a new smoker/grill last week and I am ready to totally fuck up my carbon foot print.
I find it a bit weird that a bunch of folks in their 30s and 40s are worked up about things that occurred in their teens and twenties.
Corner Stone
@Keith G: I’m sorry (?) to hear you had to work some of this weekend, because it was glorious my friend.
We had a picnic yesterday at the park after watching a toddler cousin’s soccer game and today we went to a couple different local neighborhood parks on our bikes and played, as well as just throwing the soft frisbee in our cul de sac while taking breaks to watch at the Texans.
If we get too much more of this I may turn into an old softee.
C’mon October! You can bring it!
ETA – Oh, and my son unlocked General Grievous on Lego Star Wars for the Wii. So every one is happy this weekend.
Ruckus
@Corner Stone:
Something special? Are you gay?
Corner Stone
@Ruckus: Yes, and I’ve always found your comments to be very sexy. Sexually stimulating, in fact.
How bout you and me work out a lil hookup?
Ruckus
@Corner Stone:
Sorry I’m not gay. Just figured you might be by the anger towards so many.
And gay or not, I have too much self respect.
Gemina13
You are basically getting pissed over the experiences some of us have had with fraternities, not YOUR frat buddies.
And “either a rapist” or what, “for the sin of joining a fraternity”? There has to be something else on the other end of that modifier.
You had a good experience with your fraternity? I’m happy for you. I had no good experiences with fraternities (or, as they were called at my college, societies, a nod to the school’s Quaker roots). It seems many of the other posters are more in agreement with you, for which I’m thankful. God knows, we have enough collections of assholes in higher education than we need. Every decent group that exists is a welcome aberration.
In the meantime–yes, John, you ARE thin-skinned over this, and you’re taking other people’s experiences with people you don’t even know personally. You’re usually capable of seeing other sides of a topic. Why is this one getting under your skin?
Gemina13
@Ruckus:
Comment of epic fail here. I don’t deny Corner Stone seems pissed, but you don’t have to be gay to hate everybody. Listen to the Teabaggers lately?
Ruckus
@Gemina13:
Sorry you took it that way. CS is not pissed, he’s an asshole. He made a pass, after a prior post, and even if it was not real he made it. I asked him a simple question and he answered positively. And then he doubled down. But I’ll bet he/she is not gay, just CS screwing around, looking to get under someones skin. His mission seems to have been accomplished. If I somewhat helped in that then I am sorry.
Don’t take anything he says or anything anyone throws back at him personally or that it is from a wider stage. It seems he makes it his life’s work here to screw with everyone. Just throwing a little back. And as I have proved before I am not the most accomplished nor clever writer.
ETA You don’t know me, my past, my present, my future. Don’t read too much into a comment on a blog.