The GOP Gay Outreach Continues at Top Speed

You stay classy, wingnuts:

I’ve just gotten off the phone with Atlanta Journal-Constitution political writer Jim Gallaway who says that Sen. Saxby Chambliss has confirmed that the “All faggots must die” comment left here on JMG earlier today did indeed come from his Atlanta office. Galloway reports that Chambliss told him his office is conducting an internal investigation.

The entire GOP is motivated by hate, fear, and greed.

*** Update ***

From the comments:

To be fair, it’s probably a staffer.

Of course it was a staffer. Chambliss was busy in the well of the Senate, the “world’s greatest deliberative body,” doing the official gay bashing as he voted against DADT.

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141 replies
  1. 1
    Joel says:

    To be fair, it’s probably a staffer.

    But if Chambliss doesn’t terminate said staffer immediately and issue a public apology for staffer’s actions, let the firestorm commence.

  2. 2

    Slow down, Cole. Damn, you and your business and economics editor have just posted three threads in less than 10 minutes. There’s a special “schedule” button in FYWP, you know?

  3. 3
    Trentrunner says:

    Well, that comment not so much a slur as it is a Republican Policy Goal.

  4. 4
    BDeevDad says:

    Saw on twitter today:

    Gays are most powerful beings to ever walk the Earth; by simply being can destroy marriages, the military, society itself.

  5. 5
    MikeJ says:

    At the bottom of the post and in the linked AJC story, they aren’t yet admitting it came from there. Just that they’ll check and see if they think it did.

  6. 6
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    I await Sully’s Burkean defense of this.

  7. 7
    Mike in NC says:

    Chambliss has got to rank in the top ten GOP goons in the Senate, right up there with Demint, Coburn, and Shelby.

  8. 8
    beltane says:

    @BDeevDad: Is this snark? If not, whoever wrote that has serious mental health issues.

  9. 9
    parsimon says:

    The entire GOP is motivated by hate, fear, and greed.

    Probably not the entire GOP.

  10. 10

    @Mike in NC:

    Chambliss has got to rank in the top ten GOP goons in the Senate

    Wait, I thought it was a 40-way tie for first.

  11. 11
    Dan says:

    What motivated young John Cole when he was a Republican?

  12. 12
    FlipYrWhig says:

    Obviously Obama’s fault. If he had just shown his supporters he cared about the issue, Republicans would have been sure to stop worrying about Teh fa&&ortz.

  13. 13
    Ash Can says:

    I’m sure they’ll all bust their asses trying to find the culprit. I’ll believe it when I see it.

  14. 14
    Apsalar says:

    On Morning Edition this morning, they interviewed a pastor who used to be the chairman of the Log Cabin Republicans, and he was saying that he thought we’re very close to gay issues exiting partisan politics. Yeah, right. The Log Cabin Republicans get no recognition from the rest of the Repubs, yet, here they are, carrying water, and telling themselves that being gay won’t make them be hated pariahs starting any day now.

  15. 15
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Joel:

    To be fair, it’s probably a staffer.

    To be fair, it’s probably a staffer that will face no serious repercussions, and whom Chambliss will continue to employ and pay a generous wage, a la David Vitter and his domestic violence loving aide.

    I sincerely doubt this will generate any level of outrage prompting a staffer to hand in their resignation. But I would LOVE to be surprised.

  16. 16
    Ash Can says:

    @beltane: Maybe you just didn’t read it right. It seemed like perfectly lucid sarcasm to me.

  17. 17
    ruemara says:

    @Apsalar:

    Delusion springs eternal.

    They just want to Uncle Ruckus themselves into a seat at their better’s table.

  18. 18
    Sanka says:

    The entire GOP is motivated by hate, fear, and greed.

    Yeah. Because the “entire GOP” is represented by one idiot in a Senator’s office somewhere.

    That’s brilliant! No wonder why Democrats are bolstering their already huge majorities in Congress this November. Because all Republicans are hate-mongers. Amirite?

    Has President Hitler Obama declared that he’s for gay marriage yet? Or does he still get a pass for being a homophobic bigot? Maybe he just gets to vote “present” on this one. What leadership!

    Hypocrites.

  19. 19
    beltane says:

    @Ash Can: I’ve met fundies who routinely say similar things that comment did not scream sarcasm to me. This country is filled with very nasty, very sick people.

  20. 20
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Joel: I’m sure young Loutish Codswallop IV will be told to clean out his desk and report to the Heritage Foundation for a new job immediately.

  21. 21

    @Sanka: Are you trolls tag-teaming today?

  22. 22
    jrg says:

    @Sanka: Bush ran on an anti-gay marriage platform. Senate Republicans just blocked DADT repeal today. You don’t get to run on a gay-bashing platform then pretend you don’t hate gays.

    Has President Hitler Obama

    Whatever, sport. You know how I know Obama’s not like Hitler? Because if he were, he would have already gassed you for being functionally retarded.

  23. 23
    stuckinred says:

    This is the draft dodging motherfucker that put up an add with a triple amputee Vietnam Vet with Osama. You think he gives a fuck?

  24. 24
    stuckinred says:

    It’s Galloway by the way.

  25. 25
    James E. Powell says:

    With today’s events demonstrating the stark difference between Democrats & Republicans, we should expect that the entire American GLBT population would get fired up for these mid-term elections. They and all who love and respect them would also head to the polls to end this DADT bullshit once and for all.

    But I get the impression that this will not happen.

    I watched an interview on Hardball of a person (missed the name) who is a leader of a group that has been fighting DADT for years. He blamed “partisan politics” without ever mentioning that it was “Republican opposition.” Then he added, when prompted by Chris Matthews, that Obama had not done enough to get the repeal passed.

    Democrats will get creamed in the mid-terms because even people who are shown a very simple “Democrats in charge we win, Republicans in charge, we lose” outcome on the issue that they claim to value most will not get out and vote Democratic.

    WTF?

  26. 26
    Ash Can says:

    @beltane: I hear ya. It’s scary.

  27. 27
    bemused says:

    @stuckinred:
    Damn. I had forgotten that. Chambliss probably has attracted many scummy staffers capable of sending the email since so any “investigation” could take awhile.

  28. 28
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Sanka:

    Because the “entire GOP” is represented by one idiot in a Senator’s office somewhere.

    Ah, yes, draft-dodging Saxby Chambliss, who ran ads claiming that wounded Vietnam veteran Max Cleland wanted Osama bin Laden to take over the US.

    I can’t imagine why one of his staffers would be such an asshole. Total mystery. After all, Chambliss himself is so clearly such a wonderful, classy guy when he decides to label as a coward a guy who fought and was wounded in the war that Chambliss was too chickenshit to fight in.

  29. 29
    stuckinred says:

    @bemused: I’ll never forget it. Max has his issues but these sleazy punk-ass motherfuckers are beyond the pale. And whoever that Sanka punk is upstream, eat shit and die, worm.

  30. 30
    stuckinred says:

    Here’s a comment from the AJC that sums it up for these assholes:

    This “investigation” smacks of religious persecution. Whoever made the comment was just paraphrasing the Holy scripture: “If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13) Our laws should reflect God’s law, right? This is a Christian nation after all.

  31. 31
    bemused says:

    @stuckinred:
    Yup, it was incredibly nasty, filthy. It tells you all you need to know about Chambliss stooping to that level.

  32. 32
    Davis X. Machina says:

    @BDeevDad: But are they more powerful than the bond market?

  33. 33
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @stuckinred:

    And whoever that Sanka punk is upstream, eat shit and die, worm.

    Sanka is a long-time troll, commonly grouped in the 4th tier of trollery with Paul L. and Joe Beese. A “no-trick wonder,” if you will.

    Not worth the time or effort.

  34. 34
    stuckinred says:

    @Midnight Marauder: Fuck it, I needed to get it off my chest.

  35. 35
    parsimon says:

    Well, for what it’s worth, the anti-gay tent is larger than some of us would like to admit. For some odd reason, we’ve been receiving spam newsletters at work from one BCN (Black Christian Network, I believe; there may be an “E” in there signifying “Evangical”) that I occasionally scan before trashing. They’re well-written. In the last week or two we’ve been told that Obama’s friendliness to homosexuals is deeply troublesome, showing his lack of religious cred and generally weak Faith, They seem to be hoping for a Dem to oppose Obama in 2012, not because they support the GOP, but because they want a less gay-friendly Democratic party. (We’ve also been told that Glenn Beck is not an acceptable representative of conservative values.)

    Shorter me: I’m not quite willing to equate anti-gay sentiment with the GOP, either demographically or in terms of party affiliation.

  36. 36
    beltane says:

    @stuckinred: This comment to the AJC provides a good example of why sarcasm is dead to me at the moment. It could have been written in earnest, or it could have been meant as satire. Who knows anymore.

  37. 37
    stuckinred says:

    @parsimon: Yea, because bible thumping idiot black people are democrats? What horseshit.

  38. 38
    binzinerator says:

    The entire GOP is motivated by hate, fear, and greed.

    I said it long ago here, the GOP represents the worst of America’s id.

    Repression, denial, displacement, projection. The goopers have never sublimated their urges into anything useful or constructive.

  39. 39
    Ash Can says:

    @stuckinred: That’s every kind of fucked up even from a religious standpoint.

  40. 40
    stuckinred says:

    @beltane: @Ash Can: I wouldn’t know I guess. Far as I’m concerned you can take all religion and shove it.

  41. 41
    TuiMel says:

    @Mike in NC:
    Chambliss is a goon, and I think Shelby is, too (along w/Cornyn, Kyle, and Sessions – albeit of the Keebler variety).

    IMO, Coburn is a loon and DeMint is a loon with goon tendencies. I think his most devout wish is to ring the bell in Charleston and lead SC out of the union again.

  42. 42
    gbear says:

    @Ash Can:

    Given that the comment gives reasons for it’s conclusion, I’m voting that it’s snark.

  43. 43
    stuckinred says:

    @gbear: Ya’ll don’t live down here do ya?

    Here’s more

    Skip Ferris

    September 21st, 2010
    6:41 pm

    “Considering that being “gay” is an invalid lifestyle in accordance with the Bible and historically with the United States morality, not to mention most countries of the world, all homosexual proponents should be ignored, denied, and censored. End of subject.”

  44. 44
    TuiMel says:

    @beltane:

    whoever wrote that has serious mental health issues

    Meet the Republican party, which has boiled down to its most extreme elements and those who would try to ride that tiger to power.

  45. 45
    Ash Can says:

    @gbear: I’d sure like to think so.

  46. 46
    Svensker says:

    @stuckinred:

    Their blood shall be upon them.” (Leviticus 20:13) Our laws should reflect God’s law, right? This is a Christian nation after all.

    If that clown is such a fucking Christian, he should know that Christians are not bound by Levitican law. And I’m assuming this clown is also an “America, Fuck yeah!” guy and as I recall, the american constitution specifically rejects being based on “God’s law”, being an establishment of religion, etc.

    I know, I know. Capt Obvious. But Jesus. And I mean that literally.

  47. 47
    Scott says:

    THANK YOU John!

  48. 48
    Svensker says:

    @Svensker:

    A bunch of y’all are saying that comment was surely snark, but it sure does sound like my Christian teatard cousin.

  49. 49
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

     

    To be fair, it’s probably a staffer.

    I’m sure it was but have you considered the possibility that the utterance of the staffer is a direct reflection of the atmosphere in his office? That the staffer felt comfortable enough to openly state this indicates that this is probably the general consensus in that office.

    I bet the staffer gets a promotion with pay raise and a huge Xmas bonus.

  50. 50
  51. 51
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    I await Sully’s Burkean defense of this.

    Sully does not defend gay bashing comments.

  52. 52
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: They have a “terroristic threat” law here in the peach state.

  53. 53
    Martha says:

    @stuckinred: Sometimes, people need to get out more. They don’t have to go south, just get out of their safe urban cocoon. I lived in GA for 3 years so I understand a bit.

  54. 54
    TaMara (BHF) says:

    I do not understand how any thinking, compassionate person could vote Republican. Ever.

  55. 55
    binzinerator says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Sanka is a long-time troll, commonly grouped in the 4th tier of trollery with Paul L. and Joe Beese. A “no-trick wonder,” if you will.
    __
    Not worth the time or effort.

    Whenever I see Sanka here I always mentally add “-dick-in-his-butt” to his nym. And that’s about all the effort I will waste on that miserable fucker and his nonsense. Works for me, anyways.

  56. 56
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    I know about that. A couple of my fellow soldiers in 4/24 avn regt ran afoul of that law while stationed at HAAF in Savannah when they made a not-so-funny prank call to somebody.

    Nothing came of it, but thay got the message real clear.

    I am not so sure you will see any real action taken about a comment about gays. This is Jawja, after all.

    Rachel Maddow is on now, and she is pissed…

  57. 57
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Sully does not defend gay bashing comments.

    But he will place the entire blame for the failure to repeal DADT on the 56 Democrats in the Senate who voted in favor of the measure, but not the unified Republican caucus who filibustered the debate from even happening.

    He just can’t help himself from diving head-first into intellectually dishonesty on this subject.

  58. 58
    Nick says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Rachel Maddow is on now, and she is pissed…

    …at Republicans

  59. 59
    celticdragonchick says:

    @TaMara (BHF):

    I do not understand how any thinking, compassionate person could vote Republican. Ever.

    They are lots of people on the other side saying the same thing about Dems, especially the anti abortion types.

    Different world views and experiences yield different results.

  60. 60
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: We had a Lejune Marine get popped last week for robbing a couple of banks here in the Athens area. His shit is weak.

  61. 61
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Nick:

    Not just the Republicans.

    Mostly, but not exclusively.

  62. 62
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    Chambliss was busy in the well of the Senate, the “world’s greatest deliberative body,” doing the official gay bashing as he voted against DADT.

    Oh John, it’s so much more than that, you little fool. It’s all theater. Who cares about repealing DADT? No a one–not even “our guys”.

    The “*WGDB” is having a Very Important internal war over how many God-damned amendments they can attach to the legislation. Even Susan Collins, who apparently gave a very moving speech on repealing DADT somewhere in time, voted to filibuster today because Hairy Rod won’t acquiesce to the demands of Republicans to be able to post UNLIMITED AMENDMENTS to the legislation.

    I hate every single one of them. I hope they all get a horrific case of blistering, ooozing , excruciatingly painful herpes lesions on their genitalia within the next 24 hours. FTW.

    *world’s greatest deliberative body

  63. 63
    parsimon says:

    @stuckinred:

    Yea, because bible thumping idiot black people are democrats? What horseshit.

    They voted in very large numbers for Obama, you see, and now they’re bummed out. Not just because of concerns over readings of Leviticus, but also because the unemployment rate among black males is close to, what, 25%?

    From a pragmatic perspective, I’m not particularly comfortable with an ideological purge of the Democratic party. You don’t change people’s minds by spitting at them (it’d be easier if you could), and you lose a fucking election by shouting at those who might in many other respects be your allies. There’s no straightforward answer here — I’m a freakin’ atheist myself, roughly, and pandering to biblical literalists is not desired, but for heaven’s sake, black christians who can’t wrap their heads around homosexuality aren’t, I”m sorry to say, the worst enemy you’ve ever had, unless you’re a single-issue voter.

  64. 64
    Ash Can says:

    @Svensker: Exactly. Morally offensive and stupidly ignorant on top of it. Like just about everything else uttered by right-wingers.

  65. 65
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    Seriously?
    Damn. Screwed up.

    We had some genius back in the 90’s who actually checked his M-16 out of the arms room and then used it to rob a bank, then checked it back in and didn’t think that little detail would be noticed…heh!

  66. 66
    Nick says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    They are lots of people on the other side saying the same thing about Dems, especially the anti abortion types.

    Oh good, now to defend the women haters.

  67. 67
    celticdragonchick says:

    @parsimon:

    From a pragmatic perspective, I’m not particularly comfortable with an ideological purge of the Democratic party.

    I agree…my pissed off bitching earlier not withstanding.

  68. 68
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    CAMP LEJEUNE, N.C. — Camp Lejeune agents arrested a Marine in connection with multiple bank robberies in Georgia.

    They say Private First Class Mark Davis faces two counts of armed robbery in connection with robberies at a First Citizens Bank on July 24 and August 27. Investigators found items linking the 20-year-old to the crime during a search of his property at Camp Lejeune; as well as his house in Georgia.”

    And I thought going to Seattle from Ft Lewis and coping acid in the summer of 68 was bold!

  69. 69
    gbear says:

    @stuckinred:

    Ya’ll don’t live down here do ya?

    Nope. Here’s Franken’s speech on the floor today. I’m not trading places with you any time soon.

  70. 70
    Nick says:

    @parsimon:

    Well, for what it’s worth, the anti-gay tent is larger than some of us would like to admit.

    at State Senator in a black area of Queens, New York was primaried by a pro-marriage equality challenger, who nearly won a city council seat last year, and was clocked, in part because her (the incumbent) supporters in the clergy got voters from the pews to the polls with the fear of teh gay.

    I’m not so sure repealing DADT would create a backlash, but, yeah, the anti-gay tent is pretty large.

  71. 71
    stuckinred says:

    @parsimon: Very large numbers? By percentage? Fuck em.

  72. 72
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Nick:

    Oh good, now he’s going to defend the women haters.

    Christ.

    I wasn’t going to engage with you any longer because you are really starting to look like a stalker…but that is really beyond the pale.

    I made an observation from an anthropology standpoint. I wasn’t trying to play magical balance fairy. I was stating a fact about human existance, and to understand other viewpoints and why they differ from yours or mine means you have to get rid of your own ethnocentricity.

    Take a damned class on the subject before you say something embarassing.

    BTW, I am a ‘she’.

    Get lost.

  73. 73
    TaMara (BHF) says:

    @celticdragonchick: Sorry it does not equate. This is a party that spews hate on an hourly basis. Whose moral values and social responsibilities end once you emerge from the womb. Who treat anyone who makes less than 2 to 3 million as the ‘help’.

    I stand by my comment. If you can think, if you can reason, you cannot vote Republican.

  74. 74
    gbear says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Who cares about repealing DADT? No a one—not even “our guys”.

    Screw you.

  75. 75
    stuckinred says:

    @gbear: Talk to me in January! There is a very strong gay community in Atlanta and, to a lesser extent, here in Athens.

  76. 76
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    And I thought going to Seattle from Ft Lewis and coping acid in the summer of 68 was bold!

    Whee! Colors!

    :D

  77. 77
    Nick says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    I was stating a fact about human existance, and to understand other viewpoints and why they differ from yours or mine means you have to get rid of your own ethnocentricity.

    I don’t “understand” certain viewpoints. I don’t “understand” people who think we should treat gays like mentally ill people, minorities as inferior, and women as having no right to their bodies, but it’s telling that you do.

    BTW, how much money did you send that group that helped get the “faggots must die” dude’s boss elected?

  78. 78
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: Yea, the first time was the night Bobby was killed. We got back to the post and took a radio in the laundry room because it was lights out on the bay. Some shit you never forget.

  79. 79
    Nick says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    Who cares about repealing DADT?

    57 Democratic Senators do.

  80. 80
    stuckinred says:

    @Nick: 56 and Liebershitz

  81. 81
    celticdragonchick says:

    @TaMara (BHF):

    I stand by my comment. If you can think, if you can reason, you cannot vote Republican.

    As a thinking person with a sense of empathy, I arrived at a similar personal conclusion. I cannot claim that necessarily follows for other people, however. I know well meaning, caring people who are still Republicans (out of habit, denial or whatever).

    That being said, a vastly disproportionate number of outright bigots and extremists have certainly gravitated to the far right.

  82. 82
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    You got me there, lol!

    My earliest memory is the first landing on the moon. I was born in 1967. :)

  83. 83
    gbear says:

    @stuckinred:

    Now why would a (gay) MN guy want to move to Atlanta in January?

    sigh

  84. 84
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: I was on R&R in Sydney for the moon landing.

  85. 85
    TuiMel says:

    Apropos of nothing in particular, John S. McCain went on the floor of the Senate today and lied and lied and lied. When he shuffles off this mortal coil, he will exchange his mavricky-ness for a burden that would make Jacob Marley feel relief in comparison.

  86. 86
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Ella in New Mexico:

    I hate every single one of them. I hope they all get a horrific case of blistering, ooozing , excruciatingly painful herpes lesions on their genitalia within the next 24 hours.

    Uh, that may be going a bit far. Really.

  87. 87
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    I bet that was a memorable time…

  88. 88
    stuckinred says:

    @gbear: The same reason a straight one would! :)

  89. 89

    Hmm. Lemme guess, Saxby* will ignore this unless pressed really hard and then announce the 1st Am. prevents him from firing the staffer. He’ll be wincing as he says it because JMG will be tearing him several new assholes.

    Oh well, I can’t wait for LCR to explain how this and the vote today are all the Democrats fault.

    *What kind of name is this for a person who doesn’t work in the porn industry?

  90. 90
    stuckinred says:

    @kommrade reproductive vigor: The name “shit eatin dog fucker” was taken.

  91. 91
    Nick says:

    Here’s Log Cabin Republican’s statement on DADT

    (Washington, DC) – The Log Cabin Republicans are troubled by the parochial political actions of Senator Harry Reid (D-NV) who has refused to compromise with Republicans by holding a full and open debate on the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). Rather than reaching a compromise allowing for ‘Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell’ to be repealed, the Senate has postponed action until after the election.

    that’s right, It’s Reid fault for NOT COMPROMISING WITH REPUBLICANS.

  92. 92
    parsimon says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Thanks. I may have to abandon thread, though.

  93. 93
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: Froze my ass off. Short sleeve khaki’s and straight out of 10 months in the Delta I was not ready for the Sydney winter, mild as it is. We drank and tried to separate the green little balls in Contact cuz we heard you could get a buzz. The Aussie hookers were fun too!

  94. 94
    celticdragonchick says:

    @kommrade reproductive vigor:

    Oh well, I can’t wait for LCR to explain how this and the vote today are all the Democrats fault.

    The post mortum on Chris Matthews, Box Turtle Bulletin and Frumforum are all laying this at Harry Reids feet as a pre election stunt for Democratic base consumption. There are multiple claims that he had the 60 votes in hand if he would have allowed the normal and expected amendment process.

    Reid was not serious about getting the votes today, and may be banking on a redo after the election.

    Beats me. Reid is not well loved in this blog, so I am interested in what others think on this.

  95. 95
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Eh, I guess I’m just too cynical about Sully. He (and his minions) can’t seem to really, really get over the fact that the GOP really doesn’t like LGBT people, and ISTM that they are always looking for a convoluted intellectual reason to vote GOP.

    Of course I’m probably speaking out of my ass, I’m really cynical and not in a good mood :(

  96. 96
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    LMAO!

    What is it about you guys and Aussie hookers?

    My roommate in Korea was a male whore…and he luved him some Aussie women.

  97. 97
    Jay says:

    Draft dodger Saxby “Ow! My knees!” Chambliss is such a bitch. I think Cleland could’ve beaten him in a rematch and come around on DADT. He taught at American University for awhile after his loss and was hugely popular with the youngsters. Working in a college for awhile can change one’s mind on these sorts of issues (see Starr, Ken).

    I mean, what is it with Georgia senators? Cleland was against repeal for awhile, and does anyone remember Sam Nunn climbing into a freaking submarine with reporters to talk about “close quarters?”

  98. 98
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    Of course I’m probably speaking out of my ass, I’m really cynical and not in a good mood :(

    Same here. I should be doing my pre-calc right now and I am in no mood for it.

  99. 99
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: Well, after 13 months in Korea (camp Hartell just south of Munsani) and 10 months in the Nam I was sort of drawn to what we so horribly called “round eyed” women. Now I was only 19 so I’ve had a lot of time to learn not to be sexist so you’ll have to forgive me. You weren’t a Camp Humphrey’s were you? Our departmental secretary was a medic there in the early 80’s.

  100. 100
    Jaybear says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Reid was not serious about getting the votes today, and may be banking on a redo after the election.

    Clearly this is Obama’s fault, because he hates gays, or something.

  101. 101
    stuckinred says:

    @Jay: They are a reflection of their constituency.

  102. 102
    Ruckus says:

    @TaMara (BHF):
    This is the crux of it isn’t it?

  103. 103
    celticdragonchick says:

    @stuckinred:

    Well, after 13 months in Korea (camp Hartell just south of Munsani) and 10 months in the Nam I was sort of drawn to what we so horribly called “round eyed” women. Now I was only 19 so I’ve had a lot of time to learn not to be sexist so you’ll have to forgive me. You weren’t a Camp Humphrey’s were you?

    Heh! Yeah, I know that if you were a “round eye” on post in Korea, you were ‘queen for a year’. I know there was some racism in some quarters, but a lot of it was simply the language and culture divide. Easier to date a girl who speaks your language.

    I was at Camp Mobil across the MSR from Camp Casey in Tongducheon. 5/17 Cavalry.

  104. 104
    JayBear says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Box Turtle Bulletin and Frumforum are all laying this at Harry Reids feet as a pre election stunt for Democratic base consumption. There are multiple claims that he had the 60 votes in hand if he would have allowed the normal and expected amendment process. Reid was not serious about getting the votes today, and may be banking on a redo after the election.

    Clearly…it’s Obama’s fault Reid didn’t want to pass this today. We should send Republicans money.

  105. 105
    celticdragonchick says:

    out for now. Good night.

  106. 106
    gbear says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    Reid is not well loved in this blog, so I am interested in what others think on this.

    Blaming it on Reid is bullshit. I’m quite willing to lay the whole blame on the fucking lock-step republicans. There’s no way in hell that every one of them believes that DADT should be saved, but they’ll all put shitty politics over good policy every single fucking time.

  107. 107
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    You know, I really wish DADT wasn’t in the news, because as strongly as I feel its fucked up and want it gone ASAP, I still have a really hard time dealing with military stuff. Its hard to try and adopt the persona of “genderqueer/trans psychedelic hippie college student,” be all little miss radical and hang out with all the cool queer and radical trans people I like, and still maintain a pretty strong, well, interest in all things military, like my mil tech geekery.

    Its like on another trans blog I frequent regularly, when the issue of DADT was brought up, many people attacked the institution of the military and thought its a tool of oppression of marginalized groups, the whole colonialism thing, blah de fucking dah. I find myself almost schizopherenic, not exactly defending the military or American foreign policy but realizing that not every LGB person shares those radical views and some queers do want to join the military.

    Sorry if I sound like I’m drunk or high and not making sense, its been a terribly depressing last couple of days :(

  108. 108
    Rarely Posts says:

    @James E. Powell:
    I intend to vote Democrat. Nonetheless, I did not learn this lesson today: “Democrats in charge we win, Republicans in charge, we lose.”

    The lesson I learned was: “Democrats with massive majorities and 60 Senators for 1/2 the session, we lose. Republicans in charge, they beat us more.”

    Now, obviously, I don’t enjoy getting beaten, but PLEASE: this vote is legitimately demoralizing. The lesson the gay community is being told is:
    It doesn’t matter if you manage to convince 75% of the Country that DADT should be repealed;
    It doesn’t matter if you elect a large democratic majority in the House and a substantial majority in the Senate;
    It doesn’t matter that you win the Presidency, BECAUSE

    You’re the discrete and insular minority that Right-Wing Haters love to Hate, you lose no matter what you do!

  109. 109
    stuckinred says:

    @celticdragonchick: TDC! That was one dusty ass drive. You probably know that Casey was the 7th ID HQ until 71. I was in the Arty so we were all over with the Indian Head Division. Here’s a fun website

    http://koreaatourofduty.us/Home.html

  110. 110
    Mark S. says:

    @Jay:

    Ken Starr? He hasn’t changed a bit.

    Did you mean Ted Olsen?

  111. 111
    Rarely Posts says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Re: Sullivan:

    “He just can’t help himself from diving head-first into intellectually dishonesty on [anything].”

    Fixed it for you. He’ll may have a rational and correct analysis of these events about 6-8 years from now (see, e.g., Iraq War), but it certainly is possible that he’ll never see reason (see, e.g., the Bell Curve).

  112. 112
    Nick says:

    @Rarely Posts:

    Now, obviously, I don’t enjoy getting beaten, but PLEASE: this vote is legitimately demoralizing.

    That’s why Republican obstruction works. It fires up their base and demoralizes the Democrats. Greg Sargant made that point today.

    But this is also why Democrats should not fight losing battles for the sake of “firing up the base” because it doesn’t work. Fight them because they’re the right battles to fight, but don’t expect it to “fire up the base”

    The only thing that will “fire up the base” is a win (and even then, when they do win, people pluck the victory apart to find the ‘but…’)

  113. 113
    Moses2317 says:

    One way to fight back against this garbage is to support these 5 Democratic Senate candidates who can put repeal of DADT over the top.

    Winning Progressive

  114. 114
    parsimon says:

    @gbear:

    This. I suspect the Republicans are scrambling now to determine to just what extent they need to court the variant of the Tea Party that is the Values Voters; the latter can also grab some independents.

    It’s conceivable that Reid felt the need to help protect some Democratic seats, but I haven’t looked into the specifics of that.

  115. 115
    Nick says:

    @parsimon:

    It’s conceivable that Reid felt the need to help protect some Democratic seats, but I haven’t looked into the specifics of that.

    Reid clearly let Lincoln and Pryor go after the vote because they changed their votes from yea to nay at the last minute.

  116. 116
    BDeevDad says:

    @beltane: Had to step away but yes, definitely snark. Sad times when something like that is not obvious.

  117. 117
    Mnemosyne says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    There are multiple claims that he had the 60 votes in hand if he would have allowed the normal and expected amendment process.

    Uh-huh. Yes, I’m sure the Republicans were chomping at the bit to have an entirely separate vote on DADT that they could stomp into the ground in addition to stomping this one flat.

    I really don’t understand why anyone would buy a claim by the Republicans that they totally would have let DADT come up for a fair vote if only Harry Reid hadn’t been so mmmmeeeeaaaannnnn to them. Okay, I understand why Tweety buys it since he’s absolutely desperate to believe the Republicans are rational actors, but WTF is up with the guy at BoxTurtleBulletin thinking that the Republicans would have acted any way other than exactly as they did today if DADT had been a separate piece of legislation?

  118. 118
    Martin says:

    @Nick: Actually, 59 do. The Arkansas senators were yes votes and switched at the last minute with permission from Reid when it was clear it wouldn’t pass.

  119. 119
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    How bout we all agree that the entire system is broken, there’s a lot of people and institutions to blame, and we drink some wine and watch Stargate reruns tonight.

    Depressed Amanda=not a lot of tolerance for angry arguments among people who really shouldnt be disagreeing.

  120. 120
    Nick says:

    @Martin:

    The Arkansas senators were yes votes and switched at the last minute with permission from Reid when it was clear it wouldn’t pass.
    ReplyRepl

    Lincoln and Pryor’s switches signal to me opposition to the actual repeal but support for bringing the bill to the floor for debate.

  121. 121
    Nick says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    but WTF is up with the guy at BoxTurtleBulletin thinking that the Republicans would have acted any way other than exactly as they did today if DADT had been a separate piece of legislation?

    BTB is dominated by Gay Republicans.

  122. 122
    drkrick says:

    The lesson I learned was: “Democrats with massive majorities and 60 Senators for 1/2 the session …

    You might try this lesson – the Dems topped out at 58, and that was only for a couple months between Franken getting in and Kennedy passing on. Two independents caucused with them, but as has been discussed once or twice, only one of them was a dependable vote for anything to the left of Orrin Hatch.

  123. 123
    parsimon says:

    drkrick speaks wisely.

  124. 124
    Rarely Posts says:

    Fine: the lesson I learned is that the Democrats have a blow-out election for the President and hold substantial majorities in the House and the Senate, then they are not going to be able to pass a bill that polls with 75% support.

    We CANNOT make progress if the rule is going to be that Liberals, progressive, and/or minorities cannot make any progress if they only manage to win substantial majority support, a substantial majority of the house, and a substantial majority of the Senate. I doubt we will win more than 60 votes in the Senate in my lifetime, given the massive skew towards Conservative, Rural, White voters.

    I’m glad they held the vote. If they hadn’t, then I wouldn’t know who to blame and who to be enraged with. I’m not angry at the Democrats, but it’s obvious that we need to demand more substantial procedural reform than we are.

    I am finding this helpful: I asked why I should hope for anything better, and no one has been able to explain any realistic route to improvement given our structural system. I don’t have one (obviously the filibuster and Senate should go, but neither solution is realistic). So, I’m waiting: what, realistically, should we do?

    And, I stand by my original comment, which was a response to an earlier comment: no matter what, today did not teach us that with Democrats we win.

  125. 125
    celticdragonchick says:

    @gbear:

    Blaming it on Reid is bullshit. I’m quite willing to lay the whole blame on the fucking lock-step republicans. There’s no way in hell that every one of them believes that DADT should be saved, but they’ll all put shitty politics over good policy every single fucking time.

    Here is the break down from BTB. I will tend to take their analysis over yours.

    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2010/09/21/26402

  126. 126
    celticdragonchick says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    You know, I really wish DADT wasn’t in the news, because as strongly as I feel its fucked up and want it gone ASAP, I still have a really hard time dealing with military stuff. Its hard to try and adopt the persona of “genderqueer/trans psychedelic hippie college student,” be all little miss radical and hang out with all the cool queer and radical trans people I like, and still maintain a pretty strong, well, interest in all things military, like my mil tech geekery.

    Its like on another trans blog I frequent regularly, when the issue of DADT was brought up, many people attacked the institution of the military and thought its a tool of oppression of marginalized groups, the whole colonialism thing, blah de fucking dah. I find myself almost schizopherenic, not exactly defending the military or American foreign policy but realizing that not every LGB person shares those radical views and some queers do want to join the military.

    Sorry if I sound like I’m drunk or high and not making sense, its been a terribly depressing last couple of days :(

    ******************************************************
    I really wish you lived somewhere close by me so we could hang out. Cheer up, kiddo. We always muddle through.

  127. 127
    gbear says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    I will tend to take their analysis over yours.

    Then why did you bother to ask for other opinions in comment 94? Sorry I didn’t confirm what you already thought.

  128. 128
    Mnemosyne says:

    @gbear:

    CDG apparently believes that the Republicans are honest actors who always do what they say, so if they say they had to vote against DADT because Harry Reid was so mean to them, it must be the truth. It’s not like Republicans have a history of claiming to support a bill and then voting against it at the last minute (climate change, financial reform, etc.)

    Nope, the Republicans are always 100% honest so we can believe them that they were forced to change their votes by Reid’s actions. Because of course if Reid had agreed to allow unlimited amendments, they wouldn’t have done what they’ve done a hundred times before and bogged the whole thing down with amendment after amendment before blocking the final vote again. Surely not!

  129. 129
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @parsimon: I’m not for a purge, either, but I’m also not for saying, “Hey, they’re only bigots on this issue, so let’s not say anything negative about them.” I know there are Democrats who are pro-birth and anti-gay. That’s fine–as long as they don’t want to change laws that will discriminate against gay people or erode abortion laws. That’s pretty much my bottom line as a Democrat–no enforcing discrimination into laws. And, caring about queer issues is not a single-vote issue at all. I would have a problem with someone who said Asian people (or any other person of color) are inferior because the Bible says so, blah blah blah. How is this any different?

    @gbear: I agree with your opinion. Republicans are fuckers in this. Period. They are not bargaining with good will or in good faith. Fuck them with a very very very rusty pitchfork.

  130. 130
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @celticdragonchick:

    The post mortum on Chris Matthews, Box Turtle Bulletin and Frumforum are all laying this at Harry Reids feet as a pre election stunt for Democratic base consumption. There are multiple claims that he had the 60 votes in hand if he would have allowed the normal and expected amendment process.

    Um, wait. If this were true, wouldn’t it suggest that Reid (1) refused to compromise, (2) refused to strip DADT and Dream from the bill, (3) deliberately provoked a confrontation to add a campaign-able issue for November? In other words, that instead of compromising he stood firm to send a message even though it meant letting the bill get filibustered? If those pundits are right about what happened, netrootsy types should be _happy_, no, at least in terms of the long game? Because isn’t that the way they think every bill should be approached?

  131. 131
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @FlipYrWhig: You and your logic, damn you!

  132. 132
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    I would assume (3) has to become apparent before people are willing to take that leap of faith. I don’t think Democratic senators have earned the benefit of doubt on their messaging capabilities…

  133. 133
    Nick says:

    @Rarely Posts:

    Fine: the lesson I learned is that the Democrats have a blow-out election for the President and hold substantial majorities in the House and the Senate, then they are not going to be able to pass a bill that polls with 75% support.

    in what world is 53%-46% a blow out election?

  134. 134
    Nick says:

    @Rarely Posts:

    I am finding this helpful: I asked why I should hope for anything better, and no one has been able to explain any realistic route to improvement given our structural system. I don’t have one (obviously the filibuster and Senate should go, but neither solution is realistic). So, I’m waiting: what, realistically, should we do?

    Make the GOP extinct. If the Democrats are going to act like multiple parties, let them be THE multiple parties.

  135. 135
    Nick says:

    @gbear:

    Then why did you bother to ask for other opinions in comment 94?

    so she can berate you and tell you she’d rather sent money to a group that help elect a guy who wants gays to die.

  136. 136
    parsimon says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    That’s pretty much my bottom line as a Democrat—no enforcing discrimination into laws.

    Fair point. Of course. That would be the approach to take with anti-choice or anti-gay-rights folks, then. My chief point was that shouting them down altogether as unwelcome idiots was not the ideal approach.

    We’re not really in disagreement.

  137. 137
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @Nick:

    Probably the one where a Democratic nominee hadn’t won a majority of the national vote in 32 years.

  138. 138
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Bob Loblaw: OK. I just watched the re-broadcast of Olbermann, in which he played a clip of Carl Levin and Jack Reed criticizing the Republicans for unprecedented, saddening levels of obstruction, then talked to David Corn about why it was that Democrats weren’t talking about Republican obstructionism, and David Corn said that while the White House and Democrats _said_ all the right things, they didn’t _sound_ angry enough, so it, like, didn’t count. When politicians actually do the things we say we want them to do, we don’t even give them credit for it, we just find ways to be disappointed in their tone and ardor. That’s pretty irritating, isn’t it?

  139. 139
    Odie Hugh Manatee says:

    @Nick:

    Since Bush and the Repubs said that a 50.1-49.9 win was a blowout? Just a guess. ;)

  140. 140
    Piter says:

    Read the comments too. They’re trying to figure its whereabouts out. Interesting…

  141. 141
    Nick says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    OK. I just watched the re-broadcast of Olbermann, in which he played a clip of Carl Levin and Jack Reed criticizing the Republicans for unprecedented, saddening levels of obstruction, then talked to David Corn about why it was that Democrats weren’t talking about Republican obstructionism, and David Corn said that while the White House and Democrats said all the right things, they didn’t sound angry enough, so it, like, didn’t count. When politicians actually do the things we say we want them to do, we don’t even give them credit for it, we just find ways to be disappointed in their tone and ardor. That’s pretty irritating, isn’t it?

    One would think someone like Olbermann would take what Levin adn Reed said and help spread that message, one would think.

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