I’ll Let You Do The Math

Here are two posts, one from Greg Sargent, one from TPM. Read them, and then weep. Sargent:

If this new poll conducted for the labor powerhouse SEIU doesn’t persuade Dems to hold a vote on extending the middle class tax cuts, then nothing will.

The toplines of the poll, which were first reported by Alex Burns, are striking enough: In seven core battleground states, a big majority, 62 percent, favor extending the middle class tax cuts while letting the high end cuts expire. That’s exactly what Dems are mulling a vote on.

TPM:

Could it really be true that the House is going to adjourn this week and doing nothing on taxes at all? That, of course, would deprive all congressional Democrats of a galvanizing issue and also allow the Republicans to argue that all Democrats had “raised taxes” on everyone. I have a hard time believing this is more than an unfounded rumor. But it would be a good way to knock 10 or 20 more seats out of next years House Democratic caucus.

It doesn’t exactly take Nostra-goddamn-damus to figure out what the gang that can’t shoot straight (unless the gun is pointed at their head) is going to do here, does it? I mean, it’s obvious. Of course they’ll adjourn without doing anything.






56 replies
  1. 1
    ItAintEazy says:

    It doesn’t exactly take Nostra-goddamn-damus Nostradumbass to figure out what the gang that can’t shoot straight unless the gun is pointed at their head is going to do here, does it?

    Fix’d.

  2. 2
    FlipYrWhig says:

    John, how do the WV Congressional Dems feel about it?

  3. 3
    James K. Polk, Esq. says:

    Herp Derp.

    How did these numbskulls get elected?

    WE GAVE THEM MONEY?!?

    Oh right, the other side is batshit insane. Carry on, then.

  4. 4
    steviez314 says:

    The Democrats are Cleavon Little in Blazing Saddles:

    Hold a gun to your own head and say “nobody move or I’ll shoot the N..”

  5. 5
    Tsulagi says:

    Of course they’ll adjourn without doing anything.

    You don’t see the big picture. If Dems schedule a vote on extending tax cuts for $250k and under while letting cuts over that expire, Rs will get mad at them and call them names. There’s nothing they can do. Isn’t that the mantra?

  6. 6

    I was beginning to worry, but John “HCR is Dead” Cole revives my spirits.

  7. 7
    300baud says:

    I hate to nitpick, but I think his full name is actually Nostra-fucking-damus.

  8. 8
    BR says:

    Let’s revisit Tim F.’s post from earlier today. Call your reps / senators. Shout at them. Tell them what they need to do and tell them you’ll provide the spine if they provide the vote.

  9. 9
    mr. whipple says:

    Of course they’ll adjourn without doing anything.

    The House is probably making the calculus that if they pass a bill, it’ll die in the Senate anyway. That way they’ll get no credit for middle class tax relief, while still getting blamed for the hugest, biggest, most heinous tax increase ever.

  10. 10
    Tecumseh says:

    It starts with a big vote or decision. A bunch of unnamed sources and ambiguous comments get put out there and bloggers, commenters on blogs, and TV pundits get all riled up. Fists are shaked, Special Comments are given, and endless debates about whether Obama is either the worst President ever or just Jimmy Carter are seen everywhere. FireDoggers say that this is it, they’re going to go vote for somebody’s dog to send a message, Obots try and rationalize, and the circular fire squad starts up again as the Republicans elect a bunch of ex-witches for political positions while nobody on the left notices.

    In other words, I’m not doing this dance until I really know what’s going on. Like every other one of these stories, there’s also a bunch of stories and quotes out there saying the opposite but everybody wants to hear what they want to hear.

  11. 11
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Tsulagi:

    If Dems schedule a vote on extending tax cuts for $250k and under while letting cuts over that expire, Rs will get mad at them and call them names. There’s nothing they can do. Isn’t that the mantra?

    Is the question, “Is that how many Democrats think?” Then the answer is, “Obviously fucking yes.” Is the question, “Is that how Democrats SHOULD think?” Then the answer is, “Obviously fucking no.” So how do you suggest to move them from what they _do_ think to what they _should_ think?

  12. 12
    Midnight Marauder says:

    I mean, it’s obvious. Of course they’ll adjourn without doing anything.

    Meanwhile, in the Senate…

    Sen. Carl Levin said this afternoon while there is not an agreement finalized yet, the tax cuts debate could begin as early as Thursday.
    __
    He said he believes leadership will allow votes on both the Democrats’ middle-class only position and the Republicans’ plan to freeze tax rates at the Bush-era levels including the rich.
    __
    As we reported yesterday, Senate Democrats have a plot in hopes of boxing in Republicans on the issue of tax cuts for the rich.

    For once, can we at least just fucking pretend like things might play out in our favor? I know we’re a bunch of cynical jackals around here, but goddamn, just for once, can we act like maybe we will get this done? Would it fucking kill you to just grit your teeth, put your head down, and power through to the finish with the mentality that the feckless Democrats will find a way to come through because they don’t have a fucking choice otherwise?!

  13. 13
    FoxinSocks says:

    Just spent the last hour leaving voicemails with my Senators (thanking them for voting to repeal DADT), as well as Senators Collins, Scott Brown, Lincoln, and Pryor (telling them how disappointed I was in their votes).

    Keep calling and keep the pressure up. I know it’s most likely futile, but I got Collins’ office phone number from an acquaintance who usually isn’t so political but who was pissed beyond words by this vote. And interestingly enough, even this late into the evening, I got an ‘all lines are busy’ message for Collins, Brown, and Lincoln. Had to call their local offices to get through.

  14. 14
    El Tiburon says:

    I think the Democrats are afraid of being cheered too loudly by the liberals.

    It’s not just Rahm who thinks we are fucking retarded. It’s a lot of the Democrats as well.

    At this point is it fair to assume they don’t want the tax cuts for the wealthy to expire. They want them to continue.

  15. 15
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @El Tiburon:

    At this point is it fair to assume they don’t want the tax cuts for the wealthy to expire. They want them to continue.

    The conservative Democrats do in fact want the tax cuts for the wealthy to continue. Blame the right people.

  16. 16

    It doesn’t exactly take Nostra-goddamn-damus to figure out what the gang that can’t shoot straight (unless the gun is pointed at their head) is going to do here, does it?

    Not really BJ style, there. It should be Nostra-fucking-damus.

    ETA: Dammit, 300baud beat me to it.

  17. 17

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Thank you. Meanwhile, back at the country club. Ben “never met a rich person I didn’t get money from” Nelson, proposes robbing Peter AND Paul to pay the rich. Or, When did Robin Hood Start Wearing Armani Suits ?

  18. 18
    Tom Hilton says:

    Not adjourning this week. Which is not to say they might not blow it some other way, but the early adjournment story appears to be completely bogus.

  19. 19

    While I don’t think having a show vote on extending the MC tax cuts will hurt, I doubt it’s the White Whale for saving dems some folks like Marshall are making it out to be. I would bet dollars to donuts that most of those polling hell yes to more tax cuts in swing states, would vote the same for banning liberals from the public square, or making a new Creation Holiday 6th Millennium Celebration.

  20. 20
    Kryptik says:

    @General Stuck:

    It just kind of stuns me how ‘Supply-side Jesus’ is basically the status quo now. Apparently, there’s no contradiction with all these good Christians fucking the rest of the country long as the rich don’t pay that extra percentage point on their earnings above 250K, because everyone knows Jesus advocated for no taxes and the death penalty and stoning the unbelievers the moment they get uppity.

    FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK, I just feel so fucking broken over how utterly fucking dysfunctional our political reality is. This is not how the ‘Greatest Nation In The World’ should be acting, and yet we’re the insane ones for assuming that we can’t wait hand and foot on bigots and wealthy ‘fuck you all, I got mine’ motherfuckers.

  21. 21
    schrodinger's cat says:

    TPM is getting more and more like Huffpo these days, with its breathless screeching headlines, it seems.

  22. 22

    @mr. whipple:

    That looks like a good analysis.

  23. 23
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: But the TPM headlines alternate between breathless screeching about what Bob Somerby called sexy-time stories, on the one hand (huhuh, ‘hand’), and down-in-the-dumps Eeyorebaggery on the other.

  24. 24
    Len says:

    @FlipYrWhig:Sucks, used to be one of my favorite sites.

  25. 25
    schrodinger's cat says:

    @FlipYrWhig: TPM is the bipolar Huffpo?

  26. 26
    Resident Firebagger says:

    The corporate Dems are rich, and when they lose their seats most will grab nice lobbying gigs.

    They’re just voting their wallets, like usual…

  27. 27
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @schrodinger’s cat: As any HuffPo reader would tell you, the TPM staff has emotional problems because they’ve actually been vaccinated.

  28. 28
    Glidwrith says:

    I spent some time in the comments threads over at samefacts.com – did you know that if the Bush tax cuts expire it’s really because all those poor people are stealing their betters’ hard earned money. Repeated again and again and again that it’s their money dammit and just because you are using the government instead of a gun you are still a thief.

  29. 29

    Watching the dithering by congressional Democrats is all the evidence needed to explain the lack of enthusiasm by the Democratic base. If Democratic politicians cannot feel enthusiastic about taking a stand for working and middle class people while putting Republicans in a difficult bind then why should Democratic voters feel enthusiastic about the politicians?

  30. 30
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Glidwrith: That’s the grand unified theory of Republicanism: Democrats just take money from hard-working Americans who play by the rules and give it to moochers, layabouts, hippies, darkies, and illegals.

  31. 31
    Dennis SGMM says:

    Oh come on, this is a an opportunity for Democratic pols to do something simple, easily explained, and popular with the majority of the people.

    Of course they’ll fuck it up.

  32. 32
    Allison W. says:

    @El Tiburon:

    I think the Democrats are afraid of being cheered too loudly by the liberals

    They should know by now that that will never happen.

  33. 33
  34. 34
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Dennis SGMM: @Backbencher: All I ask is that you blame the right segment of “Democratic pols” who “dither.” The vast majority of them, including the leadership, sees it as you do. And then there’s a chunk who either really fear raising taxes on anyone for any reason for ideological reasons (i.e., it’s too liberal); really fear raising taxes on anyone for any reason for political reasons (i.e., it’ll make me lose); or a combination thereof. “The Dems” as a group have to figure out how to handle that rogue element. Taking out your frustrations on _all_ Democrats only does the troublesome ones a favor by obscuring the picture.

  35. 35

    @Allison W.:

    I can hardly keep up with what “liberals” want anymore. It wasn’t that long ago they were completely against all the Bush Tax Cuts and hammered dems for letting them get passed in the first place. Then Lord Krugman utters the magic words, and now they are hammering dems because they fear they might not hold a vote to extend them that is sure to fail, because a blogger said they might be the silver bullet that saves dem majorities in congress because a pollster asked the question do you approve of tax cuts? And unsurprisingly, a lot of people said yes.

  36. 36

    @Allison W.:

    I can hardly keep up with what “liberals” want anymore. It wasn’t that long ago they were completely against all the Bush Tax Cuts and hammered dems for letting them get passed in the first place. Then Lord Krugman utters the magic words, and now they are hammering dems because they fear they might not hold a vote to extend them that is sure to fail, because a blogger said they might be the silver bullet that saves dem majorities in congress because a pollster asked the question do you approve of tax cuts? And unsurprisingly, a lot of people said yes.

  37. 37
    cleek says:

    @mr. whipple:

    The House is probably making the calculus that if they pass a bill, it’ll die in the Senate anyway.

    yes, because the GOP killed it.

    seems like a pretty potent campaign message.

    if only the Dems knew a fucking thing about politics.

  38. 38
    cleek says:

    @General Stuck:

    It wasn’t that long ago they were completely against all the Bush Tax Cuts and hammered dems for letting them get passed in the first place.

    yes, the tax cuts were stupid. that hasn’t changed. what has changed is that the Dems seem determined to extend them, regardless of what Krugman or the fucking bloggers want. and, since that’s the case, the Dems might as well try to play the politics right. but they aren’t.

  39. 39
    fasteddie9318 says:

    @mr. whipple:

    The House is probably making the calculus that if they pass a bill, it’ll die in the Senate anyway. That way they’ll get no credit for middle class tax relief, while still getting blamed for the hugest, biggest, most heinous tax increase ever.

    See, though, if the Democrats hadn’t all taken a vow of fucking silence in this campaign season, they could make a pretty powerful argument that, since they had proposed and all voted for the low-to-middle class tax cuts bill and the Republicans filibustered it, that the GODDAMN REPUBLICANS were the ones who caused everybody’s taxes to go up.

    This is insanity. This vote is not a silver bullet, but it is a vote they have to take. Whether the Senate passes it or not, those House members can go back to the voters and say either that they got everybody’s taxes cut or that they tried to get everybody’s taxes cut but the Republican jackholes stopped them because Charles Koch would have had to give away one of his ponies under the Democratic plan. That’s what some would call a win-win, which is why the Democratic Party will do whatever it takes to find a way to lose anyway. That’s what true losers do, they find ways to lose no matter how many obstacles might stand in the way of losing.

  40. 40

    The perfect music for the title of this thread [You do the math]:

    http://pi.ytmnd.com/

  41. 41
    D-Chance. says:

    With the Obamaconomy in shambles, shouldn’t EVERYONE share the burden of helping rebuild it? I don’t see why ALL taxes shouldn’t revert to the Clinton-era levels. After all, it’s not like we were hurting in the 90’s.

    And, really, Cole… a big labor group pays for a poll, then absolutely loves and touts its results? Someone better put the SEIU kids in contact with Marky Mark over at the Kossack site and have him relate a life’s lesson or two about such matters.

  42. 42
    fasteddie9318 says:

    With the Obamaconomy in shambles, shouldn’t EVERYONE share the burden of helping rebuild it? I don’t see why ALL taxes shouldn’t revert to the Clinton-era levels. After all, it’s not like we were hurting in the 90’s.

    I don’t see why all taxes shouldn’t revert to the rates we had under Eisenhower, but it ain’t gonna happen and it would result in a Republican landslide if they tried.

  43. 43
    cleek says:

    @D-Chance.:

    With the Obamaconomy in shambles, shouldn’t EVERYONE share the burden of helping rebuild it?

    higher taxes on the people who are suffering the most right now aren’t going to help the economy.

  44. 44

    @cleek: It’s hard to know what is going on behind the scenes in the dem caucus right now. The blue dogs want them extended, that is for sure, but the liberals, or many of them likely don’t, and may be wary of having a vote that actually might get passed since it is impossible to gauge certainly what the wingnuts will end up doing.

    So there are several pieces in motion, I suspect, and Pelosi is just trying to figure out the game and where the votes lie.

  45. 45
    Chris says:

    Put me in the slightly optimistic (but don’t let up) camp:

    I have a hard time believing this is more than an unfounded rumor.

    I have an *easy* time believing it’s a *founded* rumor, when I think about how often and easily Democrats sabotage each other (or themselves, if there’s a difference); the House and Senate Democratic membership each do contain a substantial number of self-hating Democrats, and that’s where the money and public attention do often go.

    But the fact that someone has enough brain cells to leak that “rumor” to Josh Marshall tells me that *someone* here knows how to play the game — and that *someone* knows that it’d be good to get more pressure on Democrats to do what we all think is the smart thing.

    I mean, I assume at least one person in a Democratic office knows that that would be a slick move.

    Otherwise, it reminds me a lot of this.

  46. 46

    @General Stuck:

    I can hardly keep up with what “liberals” want anymore

    It is also pretty hard to keep up with your senile hippie punching – or rather make sense of it.

  47. 47

    @Chuck Butcher: I would suggest learning to read and comprehend for a start. And doing something about your apparent martyr complex of riding to the rescue at the drop of a hat for so called hippie punching, And I am not the least bit senile, you blubbering jackass.

    And btw, I was a real hippie back in the day. These motherfuckers you defend are phonies.

  48. 48

    @Chuck Butcher:

    It is also pretty hard to keep up with your senile hippie punching – or rather make sense of it.

    You should live so long.

  49. 49

    @General Stuck:

    General:

    Are you charming the locals again? :-)

  50. 50
    Tsulagi says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Is the question, “Is that how many Democrats think?” Then the answer is, “Obviously fucking yes.” Is the question, “Is that how Democrats SHOULD think?” Then the answer is, “Obviously fucking no.”

    Duh.

    So how do you suggest to move them from what they do think to what they should think?

    I don’t. The problem seems to be genetic.

    Dems gained control of Congress four years ago. Two years ago added to those margins plus added the White House. Power. Yet they’re still the chump who lets their lunch money be taken by the loudmouth dumbass on the playground. Willingly. Even tries to appease the loudmouth often by giving more. Sometimes joining loudmouth to trash chump’s supporting friends apparently so they can be seen as a pragmatic, serious chump. Amazing. Loudmouth has them well, well trained.

    Maybe Darwin could salvage the chumps, but I’m not so sure. We put these chumps into office. Gave them huge majorities and power. Apparently not enough for these chumps. Seems not only after you lead this horse to water, you’d have to pick it up, toss it into a lake then pry open its fucking mouth to try to keep it from dying of thirst, and that probably still wouldn’t be enough. Some say that’s part of the Democratic charm. That charm wore transparently thin to me some time ago.

  51. 51

    To cheer you up for a moment,

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09.....=1&hp

    It seems that the Republicans are short on money this year and are cutting way back on their get-out-the-vote campaigns. Isn’t that too bad?

    The Democrats, BTW, seem to be jumping in with both feet.

  52. 52
    Dr. Morpheus says:

    @Tsulagi:

    We put these chumps into office. Gave them huge majorities and power. Apparently not enough for these chumps.

    I’m sorry, but as Stuck alluded to up the thread, the Democrats aren’t an ideologically united party. We’ve got Liberals, Blue Dogs, and Progressives, so in a sense the Democratic Caucus really represents three parties ideologically.

    That is why it’s like herding cats to get enough Democrats together to accomplish anything.

    That’s why Will Rogers said, “I don’t belong to any organized political party. I’m a Democrat”.

    Jeez, I thought this was obvious to even the most casual observer.

  53. 53
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    the gang that can’t shoot straight

    I give up. Are they the gang that can’t shoot straight or did they enact the biggest progressive accomplishment in 40 years? Make up you damned mind.

  54. 54
    burnspbesq says:

    The only problem with this analysis is that letting all of the Bush tax cuts expire is the right thing to do.

  55. 55
    Bob Loblaw says:

    @burnspbesq:

    Maybe, just hypothetically, the administration is thinking that an $800-1900 average tax hike for individual earners making <$100,000/yr might put a damper on those PCE numbers going forward. Tough to help overleveraged people consume their way out of this stagnant "recovery" that way.

  56. 56
    burnspbesq says:

    @Bob Loblaw:

    Maybe. But politics is driving the bus, and rational tax policy is bound, gagged, and stuffed in the baggage compartment.

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