I am locked out of the blog from my work computer, due to the virus, but I can get on the wireless from iPad. A less kind under-blogger would ask what the over/under is on the number of “stop emailing me about how the blog is screwed up” posts we get over the next week or so.
I’ve just realized that in addition to the endless hand-wringing over volatile generic preference polls and discussions of whether it was liberal overreach or poor communications that ultimately doomed Democrats, there’s another type of pre-analysis of November’s elections, the “this event did nothing to change Democratic fortunes”. Mark Halperin has a classic right here, boldly asserting that Obama’s press conference, while “pretty good”, wasn’t nearly enough to stop the certain Republican tsunami. I thought this was pretty gutsy, given the conventional wisdom that Obama’s press conference completely changed the dynamic of these elections.
I haven’t figured out how to turn this into a drinking game yet, but I’d like your help in assembling a definitive list of all the signs that Democratic defeat is certain and all the things that pre-caused this terrible debacle.
dmsilev
Hmmm.
Apple’s refusal to allow Flash on iThings is obviously a metaphor for Democratic refusal to acknowledge the fundamental center-rightness of this country, and hence their inevitable losses in November.
dms
Frank
I thought I would choke when Halperin also stated that Obama should replace Emmanuel with a Republican. Did he ever suggest that Bush should have a Democrat in that position?
Omnes Omnibus
How about taking a drink every time a pundit speaks about the election. Continue drinking until the pundit stops speaking. Repeat as appropriate. Sure, it will cause irreparable liver damage, but you will be passed out for much of the election season which has to count for something, right?
slag
Are you sure about this? I understand liver failure to be a pretty horrible way to die.
ETA Omnes Omnibus beat me to it. Damn.
Comrade Mary
I started drinking even before I read this post. W00t!
Violet
The unemployment rate refuses to budge.
The unemployment rate refuses to budge.
Repeat.
Other than that, additional reasons Democrats will lose…
The Tea Party is strong. Glenn Beck proved that with his rally.
Democrats hate Obama.
It’s not a Presidential election year.
Democrats don’t have any enthusiasm.
Republicans have proven they can reinvent themselves. See: Tea Party.
Also…
Real Murkins are freedom lovin’ patriots who love Murka and freedom and patriotism and Our Troops and The Heartland and Real Murkins vote for Real Patriots as instructed by $arah Palin and Glenn Beck.
Comrade Javamanphil
I needed to cut back so I only drink when someone says “This is good news for the Democrats.” Haven’t had a drink in 30 years.
taylormattd
On a marginally related note, Doug, I have a quote from you from the firebaggers:
BGinCHI
That’s easy.
The Dems didn’t enter the code every 108 minutes. And now look what’s happened. Blammo.
Time shifts (Red Scare/Islam Scare) and an orange monster who breathes fire.
Plus, a mindless, unstoppable newt.
We’re Lost.
california asset protection
the democrats are in trouble because they didn’t listen to the people.
C Nelson Reilly
The Democrats failed to print up some Korans with fire retardant paper
quaint irene
Or the all-purpose, ‘Anti-Incumbent Sentiment.”
I always felt this was particularly inane. You vote against someone not for their record and positions, but simply because they’re already in office.
Just because you get somebody new in that office, that’s gonna magically make everything all right?
TaosJohn
“Liberal overreach”???
kindness
Mark thinks he’s Hypno-Toad. He isn’t, he’s just another right wing toad.
Oscar Leroy
Who gives a rat’s ass about Mark Halperin?
jl
“whether it was liberal overreach or poor communications that ultimately doomed Democrats”
“I’d like your help in assembling a definitive list of all the signs that Democratic defeat is certain and all the things that pre-caused this terrible debacle.”
I will make a very helpful, constructive and proactive contribution by saying that DougJ’s list of pre causes (I never use hyphens since I never know when they will go bad on this blog) is incomplete. At least it is incomplete wrt to economic policy.
One pre cause that needs to be considered is that this society has been dominated by a particular school of failed economic thought and that most people who win election to national office must subscribe to enough of this failed school that any policies, or policy experts they listen to, will produce bad analysis and bad policy.
Obama, like almost all office holders, doesn’t know much economics. He wants to be a consensus builder, to be reasonable, to compromise. So he pays most attention to consensus experts in macroeconomics (say, for example, Rubin and Summers).
Well, people like Rubin and Summers are consensus enough to get some big issues of analysis and policy wrong. An example was the fundamental Summer’s faith that the economy would bounce back quickly on its own from the recession, and that opinion had a big influence on his acceptance of an inadequate stimulus.
So, my opinion for macroeconomics is that consensus macroeconomic expert opinion and accepted theory and analysis has gone bad, very bad, over the last 30 years. So whoever listens to much of it will make bad mistakes. And I think that is what happened.
In some areas, compromise and consensus can work. We can do some compromise and consensus, on ethical and political philosophy grounds, about how much groups with different income should sacrifice for the good of all.
I don’t see how one can compromise and reach consensus between modern chemists and those who use a phlogiston theory of combustion on energy policy and global warming, for example.
My conclusion wrt to economic policy is pessimistic because there is no quick fix to this problem. It will take maybe a decade for the intellectual fashions to change, and while fighting against those who have the means and interest in giving patronage to schools of thought that do not have anything meaningful or useful to say about reality, but do greatly help certain interest groups.
DougJ
@taylormattd:
Who wrote that?
Violet
@jl:
Attached hyphens are okay. Unattached hyphens are not. So something like pre-caused is fine, because the hyphen is attached on both ends.
If you want to use an unattached hyphen, you can put two hyphens together — like this — and it doesn’t cause the hyphen wonkiness. At least that’s what I’ve been told.
Zandar
It was all over when Obama…
lost in New Hampshire in the primary.
lost in California in the primary.
was tied to Jeremiah Wright.
was tied to Tony Rezko.
was tied to Bill Ayers.
picked Joe Biden and not X.
picked Rahmbo and not Y.
refused to go after Bush.
didn’t stop wiretaps.
didn’t support gay marriage
didn’t repeal DOMA.
didn’t pass card check.
didn’t pass immigration reform.
uttered the words “clean coal”.
accepted Arlen Specter as a Democrat.
failed to get cramdown legislation passed.
didn’t pass enough stimulus.
passed too much stimulus.
didn’t listen to the will of the people.
listened to the polls too much.
didn’t fight for his nominees.
fought too long for his nominees.
nominated Sonia Sotomayor instead of X.
nominated Elena Kagan instead of X.
passed health care reform instead of going after anything from Column B first.
wasn’t bipartisan enough.
was too compromising enough.
didn’t end the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan.
didn’t bomb Iran.
didn’t completely rule out bombing Iran.
was too confrontational as an African-American male.
was too non-confrontational as a Democratic president.
brought up race and racism too much.
didn’t bring up race and racism enough.
was too corporate and passed Wall Street reform.
was too anti-business and passed Wall Street reform.
had too many women in his inner circle, including Michelle.
didn’t have enough women in his inner circle, including Michelle.
was too liberal.
was too moderate.
was too conservative.
was too Clintonian.
was not Clintonian enough.
played basketball.
played golf.
bowled.
took his shirt off.
wasn’t a tough bastard like Vladimir Putin.
was too fascist like Vladimir Putin.
was too much of a narcissist.
lets people walk all over him and subsume his ego.
didn’t reach out to people.
depended on his base too much.
too rah-rah Pentagon.
didn’t support the troops enough.
was a secret Muslim.
was not Christian enough.
was too old-school Southern Baptist pastor in his speeches.
was too cold and inert.
was too animated and made voters nervous.
was too Village-friendly and kissed press corps ass.
was too antagonistic to the Village and his press outfit sucked.
was not FDR.
tried to be FDR.
tried to be FDR but failed.
…mix and match, you get the idea. We should have all collapsed into a radioactive neutronium heap approximately 2.5 years before he was ever born, apparently.
Violet
@DougJ:
Jon Walker
kwAwk
Hmmmm….. I’m thinking that the solution for Obama is to tack hard to the center. I’m sure if he let Ben Nelson pick his next chief of staff it would be just what the doctor ordered to get the professional left excited about his Presidency.
But I am left wondering who is it that has displayed such a demand to have Rahm become the next mayor of Chicago?
El Cid
Yet another workplace multiple shooting from someone fired.
As usual it mixes the job loss with general craziness. I mean, assuming they weren’t spraying chemicals at her behind her back.
me
Halperin is a conventional wisdom pull string doll. He’s never had an original thought in his life.
Bruce (formerly Steve S.)
Nate Silver’s long promised House projection is finally out and it ain’t purdy.
Corner Stone
@Violet:
Actually, I’m pretty sure the whole hyphen debacle is just another variation of DougJ mindfucking us. He randomly creates scenarios to see if he can alter behavior, who follows along, who is oblivious and just how far he can take it til commenters here crackup.
With the hyphen, it caused some people, mainly myself, to use the elegant tilde when I wanted to separate a phrase but continue trying to make the point intended. Because I was fearful that using the hyphen could potentially hyphen bomb the entire thread, if not the whole blog. And I didn’t want to have to scream at and berate myself for such stupidity.
Others gave separation up all together, and some blithely continue it’s use. Seemingly oblivious to when they murder a thread after 12 comments.
The right hand margins is another example of the mindfucking that goes on here. Some, like myself, have changed access methods (browsers), others plead on their knees to have the issue fixed, some just stubbornly refresh 12 or 22 times until they can read clearly. Then they hit refresh and it blows up again.
I’m telling you, this whole place is a long term experiment by whoever DougJ really ever turns out to be. I just hope he eventually publishes.
DougJ
@Zandar:
That is pretty good.
Frank
@Zandar:
It was over even before Obama had declared he would run. Back in December 2007, Joe Scarborough said on his show that Obama should not enter the race because Hillary Clinton would obliterate him.
freelancer
@Corner Stone:
Balloon-juice as online Skinner box. Not a bad hypothesis.
El Cid
@Bruce (formerly Steve S.): I know it’s wrong but there are a lot of times that I just feel like telling the electorate ‘fuck you’, that they better enjoy what the fuck they’re voting for, because you won’t like it but you’ll get it, and when it turns out to be really fucking rotten, shut up & like it because this is what you dumb, shortsighted impulsive fuckers wanted.
gogol's wife
@Zandar:
Thank you. God am I sick of all this.
danimal
@Zandar: I’ll jump in and wave my hands saying “Praise Zandar.” That was a brilliant summation, and may have saved DougJ’s liver.
Simp
“liberal overreach”
What f***ing overreach?? This admin has barely lifted a finger in an attempt to rollback 15 years of increasing fiscally conservative/corporate policy.
Refusal to acknowledge the increasingly center-righthanded-ness of the country? Methinks you confuse the media with the people.
El Cid
@Simp:
See? You admitted ‘barely’. That’s way too radical and extreme and soshullist and Hitler for the USA.
Ash Can
@Frank:
I guess Halperin never heard any of those warnings about the brown acid.
slag
@Zandar: Wow. That is truly epic. You could be the next Homer (poet not Simpson).
Also, DougJ: Excellent title.
Midnight Marauder
@Violet:
To be honest, I think the best line in the whole piece is the title:
Yeah, that’s right. You have absolutely no reason to care about this election. The stakes, literally, could not be lower.
And this comment, I think, really illustrates just how idiotic things have gotten over at places like FDL:
But if it “really could get a lot worse,” then how can you possibly agree “100%” with that kind of statement?
Because you’re an idiot, that’s how.
slag
@Midnight Marauder: Maybe it’s a tactic. Pretending to agree while simultaneously subtly calling someone a total fucking moron. It’s been done.
phoebes-in-santa fe
@Zandar: Love it!
Midnight Marauder
@slag:
I have never seen such subtlety practiced in the comments of FDL.
Ever.
arguingwithsignposts
OT, but reports are that residents warned about the gas leak that ripped through that Cali. town (calitics link).
But don’t worry, the invisible hand will make everything alright.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
DougJ: I’m interested that you think Obama’s press conference changed the dynamic of this election.
What could he possibly say at this point that would overcome the evidence of his actions the last 21 months?
I have wished, almost since he took office, that he would amp up and use that forceful rhetoric of which he is capable, over and over again when it would really make a difference, as during the health care process. As I see it, he did VERY little to EDUCATE the american electorate about what the options really were…an occasional aside to someone isn’t going to cut it.
So while it doesn’t surprise me in the least that now, in the 11th hour before midterms, O will get off his rhetorical ass and start breathing fire, it’s far too late to make a difference to me.
His actions, and lack of same, tell me he’s a corporate and military whore, and I certainly won’t be getting off my american ass to vote for him, or to vote at all, this fall.
If things spiral downward under Repuke rule, perhaps there will at some point and finally be a physical uprising in this country and we can start over from there. We’re long overdue.
And if any of you regulars deign to respond, please try to refrain from personal attacks and obscene name calling, as such tactics cause me to weep.
slag
@Midnight Marauder: Exactly. It’s just that subtle.
OK. I’m just being contrarian. They really are total fucking morons. Seriously, they might as well be Republicans.
slag
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
And if only we’d just clap harder, the free market will sort everything out.
You’re a lunatic. Seek help.
Midnight Marauder
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Then, by all means, shut the fuck up.
Allison W.
@Zandar:
depressing and infuriating. it doesn’t even contain everything.
Frank
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Literally nothing will change until the media picture changes. Until there as an offset to FoxNews, things will remain the same. And to blame Obama is ludicrous. I remember when Obama went after foxNews. Where were the Dems, where was dailykos, fdl etc? Quiet as church mice.
Malron
Shouldn’t the title of this thread be “Legends of the
FallFail?”/end nitpick
Allison W.
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
which is why he is not going after votes from people like you.
Linda Featheringill
@Zandar:
Bravo! Wonderful list!
geg6
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Because I so love to see assholes cry, fuck off firebagger. You make BOB look like a genius.
Allison W.
@Frank:
way in the back liveblogging his every move and word.
slag
@Malron: Get thee to a punnery! The title is absolutely perfect.
arguingwithsignposts
@El Cid:
I was waiting for this part in the article, and I was not disappointed:
licensed to kill time
Just type in Obama ringless in teh google to see how he failed us today.
jl
I will jump in for a moment to pour more cold water on this enterprise. I think a lot of the political damage cannot be repaired by framing, tough talk, and even my favorite recommendation of daily HST Turnip Day orations.
A lot of people are facing real economic hardship with no end in sight, or fear that they will any day now. They have been confused by two political parties that have not been straight with them as the sad history has unfolded, so do not know who to trust.
Short of firing Summers and begging to Romer to take his job, and bringing on board a bunch of people from the Krugman/Stiglitz/Galbraith/Baker/Solow/Blinder nexus, AND having them barnstorm for the election AND making a believable commitment to a big change in economic policy, AND explaining in detail how this will improve the lives of the lower 80% of the population, by, say, first thing tomorrow morning…
Well, other than that, I do not see what can be done on the economic front, which I think plays a very big role in the midterm troubles. No party in power, or administration, can do well in the face of widespread economic stagnation.
The GOP has already used the techniques of targeted politically motivated redistribution of government funds and tax breaks to their base, far more than the Democrats, despite the propaganda. This started in the Reagan administration, and was continued by Bush II. I read someone saying that if the GOP had its way, it would try to adopt a South African style apartheid class based government subsidy approach, and call it free enterprise. That would be bad.
But I am not sure that would work, because the ultra rich patrons of the GOP need to be served too, and not sure there are enough resources to pull it off. Probably see more of the GOP base being thrown out of the boat (remember when trade unions were on the team?)
Omnes Omnibus
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. I am, of course, entitled to think that your opinion is without merit and I do. If I understand you correctly you believe that it is best sit back and wait for things to become so bad that violent revolution is the only option. Is that correct? Sorry, I am not interested in violent revolution. They are violent. They are unpredictable and they eat their own. I would rather try to fix the leaky boat than sink it and presume I can build something better out of the wreckage.
jinxtigr
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Fuck you, you’re being a prickdacious dickwaldian :)
I do not care what the media says. I’m just going to go vote against crazy republicans and I’ll look at what was really happening in this era at some later date. I am a little peasant with very little ability to effect any change, but I helped Obama get in, and I do trust that he has some idea what’s going on- more than I have, that’s his fucking job after all.
Those of you who want a people’s leftist revolution are absolute fools, because for every one of us who’s up for that, there’s a Confederate who’s willing to be just as violent and terrorist to refight the Civil War except they get to enslave Muslims and wogs this time, not just niggers.
Dead serious here. Enough with the ‘let’s have a revolution’ talk. It would be TOO messy and nothing good would come of it.
master c
@Zandar:
good un!
Stooleo
I’m not sure why continually torture myself and go read comments over at Talk Left and FDL, but holy shit, I’ve never seen such a bunch of defeatist wussies. The incessant whining ” Obama didn’t get a public option” or DADT is still in effect, or the stimulus wasn’t big enough. I mean, even if these things are true, the mere thought of letting the Republicans gain control of the House sends a chill down my spine. Fuck, just cause you didn’t get everything you want, you’re going to give in to the psychopaths? Fight! you stupid bitches!
slag
@Omnes Omnibus:
Beyond which, they are simply not going to happen. Not here, anyway.
And yes:
Only seriously deep thinkers are serious or deep enough to know that the best way to make the country more liberal is to give radical conservatives more power.
eemom
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Quite right. Because every voter out there is busily engaged in a detailed examination of his actions the last 21 months, carefully weighing the evidence to see if it meets the “preponderance” standard.
I mean, it’s not like we have an overwhelmingly moronic electorate that is easily influenced by appeals to emotion from a powerful speaker.
Omnes Omnibus
@slag: Yeah, that too.
Culture of Truth
Grover Norquist never gave me no public option
geg6
Meanwhile, Halperin was just on Tweety hysterically claiming that he jogs every day past the Burlington Jihadist Coat Factory and it is just so close to Ground Zero that there is no real difference between them and that people have to understand that two blocks away in New York is the same as being in the exact same location. Because, you know, nobody’s ever been to New York and won’t understand their little, teeny, tiny blocks. To their credit, Tweety and Fineman were dismayed and Fineman actually got quite exercised over the whole thing. Enough so that, even though he’s a very serious person, he actually ventured a personal opinion in which he said, in essence, that Halperin was an ass. Didn’t use that exact word, but it was pretty clear what he meant.
GregB
Only Fred Thompson can save us now.
BGinCHI
Halperin looks and acts like a guy who wants to be in Mad Men but if he was in five minutes he’d be crying and screaming “there’s no place like home, there’s no place like home.”
Hell, even Pete Campbell, whose hair is close to Halperin’s, would bitch slap him.
Honestly, these Halperin/Gregory/Politico guys are all the same: privileged, pedigreed, and oh so unlikely to do anything that would entail bravery or risk.
quaint irene
Nah, no name calling. Just suggesting you join Gov. Angle. She too believes in a ‘second amendment solution’ if things don’t go exactly as you want.
WereBear
Yeah. Right.
Like lying us into one war, totally neglecting another, and nearly crashing the world economy like a 1987 PC wasn’t enough.
I don’t want to experience what would be enough.
Cerberus
Well it’s a bit following the narrative, but the reason is pretty much “republican obstructionism”.
Republicans (and conservadems) shutting everything down with childish games on rules makes democrats look “weak” (and those moronic independent voters will vote “strong and wrong” over “weak and right” any day of the week), creates watered-down bills and pre-compromised initial positions that make liberal-leaning voters feel demoralized about their influence on the Democratic Party, and ensures not enough was done to affect the looming economic depression which allows the narrative to flow back to blaming democrats and Obama for not being magic negroes who can fix everything with a wave of their hands, so let’s give the country back to the idiots who blew it up in the first place.
As such, democrats will lose power (though probably not as much as they could).
And it’ll probably get worse, because no one probably wants to face the reality that Bush’s insanities and the looming ghost of Reagan has pretty much guaranteed that America will be devolving into a second-world nation exploited by foreign first-world companies. And so there’ll be a lot of sound and fury rather than quick moves to try and hastily address it and rebuild critical first-world infrastructure and safety nets.
arguingwithsignposts
@BGinCHI:
Boy you hit that nail on the head. Went to check Halperin’s wiki page. Interesting read, especially who his dad is. What is an AB degree from Harvard?
Frank
@geg6:
Halperin calls himself a journalist. Does he not know that there already is a real mosque just four blocks from Ground Zero? Since he claims two blocks separation in New York is really the same location, I assume he pretty much thinks the same about four blocks. Does Mark Halperin want the other mosque destroyed then?
And what about the topless bar that is two blocks away? Why is that one OK?
And what about the proposed mosque in TN that is some 18000 blocks away from Ground Zero where the locals don’t want it? Does Halperin think 18,000 blocks is too close?
And what about the First Amendment? Is Halperin now against it?
“Journalists” such as Halperin/Tapper/Ed Henry are a disgrace to whatever profession they claim they are in.
singfoom
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
As someone who has gotten heat here for firebaggery things such as dissing Obama’s civil liberties record, I think you’re wrong. Even if I accepted your statement above completely, the reality is that he’s better than anything the Rs would ever give us or do.
I won’t insult you but I think that whatever your goals are, they will not be served by staying home and not voting and letting the Republicans win.
I really hope those that agree with your position don’t fuck shit up for everyone else because they took their ball home. National politics isn’t a playground and doing nothing accomplishes exactly that.
Hal
Yawn. I wonder why people like you even bother to post, other than to say just how over it you are, and how disappointed; so, so disappointed you are.
It’s just truly dull, perplexing, and of course, so fucking full of shit, it defies reality. You can’t see the difference between anything the Republicans and Dems do?
I thought people like you died out in the early 2000’s when the Bush is the same as Gore screeching proved so horrifically wrong, but I guess not.
Uloborus
@Zandar:
You know what’s awesome? People are starting to trot out some of these IN THIS VERY THREAD. You’re like a god damn prophet.
morzer
@arguingwithsignposts:
Somebody admitted to spawning Halperin? Voluntarily?!
marcopolo
Just took a side trip to check out that FDL post that violet excerpted…I now need to wash my mind out with bleach, particularly after reviewing some of the contributions of the commentariot.
So here’s a question for anyone else insane enough to take a gander at the “article” who remembers the events of the last decade: isn’t it striking how much the FDL guy’s argument mirrors the arguments made by a lot of the progressives in the 2000 Bush/Gore race?
I had friends, liberal friends who were dissatisfied with the amount of “liberal” progress made during Clinton’s second term foisting the “Gore is just like Clinton, I’m voting for Nader/sitting this election out, after all what is the worst that could happen from electing Bush, he’s not that bad?” line off in election conversations.
Well, we know how that turned out. Anyone who wants to give the keys to any part of our government to a pack of raving nutballs who don’t think the “gubmint” can or should take an active role in making policy and taking actions that improve our chances of enjoying “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, (unless you are in the top 1% of wage earners)” must have killed a lot of brain cells over the past couple years to not remember the change the US underwent from 2000 to 2008.
I think I have said a couple of times here that I am experiencing election ennui this year. As a result, I haven’t really found a local campaign I could sink my teeth into and dedicate a lot of time to, but I will be damned if that keeps me from voting in November or reminding everyone I know that they too need to get out to the polls.
Bob L
@eemom:
Yes, it’s not like people will line up on the Capital Mall to cheer on some bloated, drug abusing white boy proclaimed himself the true successor of Dr Martin Luther King while holding up signs screaming “Don’t socialize medicare”. Americans are far to rational for that kind of stuff.
No, speeches won’t help Obama. Americans just want cold facts, not impassioned rhetoric.
DougJ
@geg6:
Thanks. I will look for the clip.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
To those of you who disagree with my earlier post but responded without epithets, thank you.
Others: lick my perineum. And then, please, nibble my asshole gently a while.
There are millions of disaffected former Dems just like me, now thoroughly disengaged from the political process. Rather than flinging bile when one of us dares to speak within the hallowed hecho chambers of BJ, perhaps you should give thought to why this is so and what you and your party might do to reverse it. Or more to the point, why your party CHOOSES not to reverse the situation.
Seems clear to me the dems don’t want to win this fall; minority status fits their codependent disposition much more comfortably than does a leadership position. I worked on John Kerry’s campaign in Florida. Anyone who can lose to GWB in 2004 isn’t even trying, and I saw why first hand.
morzer
@marcopolo:
Reading FDL’s tripe has become an almost Lovecraftian experience. The more one knows of their Cthulhuesque vision of the world, the closer one comes to insanity.
I shall now feed the Shoggoth.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Hal:
I post because I DO care and I am interested in politics in general. But I am also a realist, betrayed too many times in the past by Dem spinelessness. I may even vote again some day, but someone has to give me a GOOD reason to set aside my hard won cynicism/skepticsim.
As has been said a million times before, by writers better than me: “vote for us because we don’t suck as bad as the republicans” is not an inspiring campaign strategy and betrays a lack of conviction.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@jl:
so…why DOESN’T Obama do exactly this?
And what do actions such as putting Alan fucking Simpson in charge of the Catfood Commission tell you about Obama’s motives/aims? Anything at all? Do you consider those kinds of move to be progressive/liberal in origin? What about Obama’s furtherance of the Bush/Cheney torture/secrecy regime, and his refusal to pursue legal action against the former?
gnomedad
@Zandar:
Which all proves that ACORN stole the election.
/ wingnut
Jay in Oregon
1. The sun rose this morning.
2. The sun set last night.
singfoom
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Again, I’ll refrain from insults, but seriously? SRSLY?
That’s right, people who spend massive amounts of time and energy and money getting elected and trying to pass legislation don’t want to win?
Maybe I’m missing something, but that seems to be a complete logic fail. The very fact that someone is a candidate for office means they want to win. They are a candidate in a contest. The point of the contest is to win so that they can serve.
But go ahead, don’t vote. Be apathetic and allow the Republicans to gain even more seats. That’ll show em!
Little Boots
Biggest failure of the Obama administration:
failure to whack himself in the head with a giant cartoon mallet and start talking like a teatard. That clearly would have saved the Democrats and the nation and the entire fucked up moronocracy under which we are privileged to live.
Nick
@marcopolo:
dude, really, the FDL people aren’t interested in winning. They’re just whiners who didn’t get enough attention from their mommies and daddies as children so they’re trying to get revenge for it
slag
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Here’s a thought: Why don’t YOU reverse the situation?
Oh, that’s right. Because you’re a lunatic who thinks a violent revolution will finally push the world your way. Hey yeah…why doesn’t my party choose to reverse the situation by getting people like you your much-needed medication? That is a good question!
I think we’ve finally stumbled on the Democrats’ mid-term slogan: Anti-psychotics in every cabinet!
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
if you want to be inspired by politicians, watch West Wing reruns. If you want your beliefs to even have a shot of being noticed, keep Republicans out of the government.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): “Nach Hitler, uns.”
Martin
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
I’m sure there was some blogger in Germany making the same argument back in the 30s. Tragically, they were correct. Not sure that national nullification is a responsible course of action, however.
And if you don’t vote, then STFU. You’ve given up your right to bitch.
Frank
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
I can assure you there were millions of disaffected Republicans after 2008 thoroughly disengaged from the political process. But unlike you and the millions you claim to represent, they didn’t take their ball and go home. Instead, they tried to change their party for the better (in their view) so that they can win in 2010 instead.
Do you see at all the difference between their winning attitude and your silly loser’s attitude?
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Can you point to anywhere in history where this actually happened and it was a good thing?
I would imagine no since you clearly know jack shit about history.
Martin
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Because the sun doesn’t revolve around you, princess. Be disaffected by who is running the show, but they’re not running it for your sole approval.
Jesus fuck. Are firebaggers the most self-centered people living today?
marcopolo
@morzer:
Yeah, it is kinda shocking how much my blogging habits have changed over the past couple of years. I no longer read FDL or MyDD and rarely, if ever, read the diaries at DK anymore though I still tend to peruse the frontpagers from time to time…so much for that ultralow registered user #. No doubt BJ has come to fit me to a tee since I am now a cranky iconoclast approaching 50.
Martin
@Nick: 1776. Get your 3 pointed hat, have your slave prepare your horse, and let’s kick some limey ass! America, Fuck Yeah!
And WOLVERINES and shit. If a bunch of 16 year olds can defeat the Soviet army, surely the Kuciniches of the world can defeat the south!
Stooleo
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Obviously, you want to see the government grind to a screeching halt for the the next 2 years. Also, there will be the endless parade of House probes and investigations. Sometimes you have to chose between a punch in the face and a shit sandwich.
Nick
@marcopolo: MyDD, does anyone still go to that catastrophe?
singfoom
@marcopolo:
At the risk of being flamebait, I’ll admit to being a Nader voter in 2000. Not that the state I live in had a chance of going anything but Democratic.
I did so out of the desire to see the Green party get 3% of the vote so they could get federal matching funds in the next election cycle and so help break the D/R frame. (I also realize now that I have no citation that that would actually happen, so please flame out if that’s wouldn’t have been the case)
I went over to that thread, and I couldn’t stand it. I’ve had the same kind of conversion in my habits in terms of internet browsing as you mention downthread. Except I’m not anywhere near 50 yet. :)
mr. whipple
@Zandar: You win the internets!
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Martin:
hahaha…oh the tired, old “you’ve given up your right to bitch” trope, as though not having a party worth my time and effort is MY fault.
I’d argue that not participating is a vote of sorts against the entire process. And if not doing so hurts the cause of whatever it is you think you’re for, then all the better.
I voted for Gore, and watched the Dems give up without pursuing every option to win.
I voted and WORKED FOR KERRY IN FLORIDA, then sat and listened to him lecture us about “family values” and somehow manage to lose to GWB, not bothering, ONCE AGAIN to address all the voting irregularities across the country that always, mysteriously, went GWB’s way. You see, even when people DO vote for Dems, including me, they don’t give enough of a shit to even fight for the validity of my vote.
So, um, fuck them.
Nick
@singfoom:
Even then, what would that have changed? Our political system is designed for one two parties and until we change it, it doesn’t matter if any minor party can get enough votes to get matching funds.
lol
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Alan Simpson isn’t charge of the Social Security commission, jackass. He’s in charge of the Republican side and frankly, he’s the perfect representative for them. Really don’t see the problem here.
mr. whipple
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
That alone is no small thing if one has a memory sufficient to go back, oh, two years or so.
fasteddie9318
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Somewhere between 40 and 60 percent of eligible voters have made this “vote of sorts” in every federal election since the late 60s, and not once has anybody in power bothered to give a fuck. That’s a powerful message you’re sending.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Martin:
Your obtuseness is endearing but ineffective as a platform from which to argue your position. In an earlier post in this thread I referenced the “Millions” of others like me…but acknowledging that would get in the way of your little slam, so there you go.
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Oh God, Get the fuck over it. Really. this is not intolerable bullshit excuse ever. “I’m not voting for Dems because they couldn’t hold the country hostage for years to win a battle they were never going to win”
Gee, they didn’t “steal” the election in 2006 or 2008, now did they? No problems with the validity of your vote in those elections, huh?
just, seriously, fuck you. You have no interest in winning or making this country better. You just want to complain.
jl
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
“so…why DOESN’T Obama do exactly this?”
I do not rightly know why he does not do it.
I would do it, but that is because I think I know enough economics to know in detail why people like Rubin and Summers and Mankiw and most everyone to their right in Washington Consensus wing have been wrong far more than right over the last ten years.
Other than bad motives, it might be that Obama does not know much economics and cast around for a safe consensus group of experts he considered ‘sound’ in the old fashioned sense of the word and ‘center very mildly liberal’.
Too bad for Obama and all of us that bad and scientifically unsound macroeconomics had spread to the sound and center very mildly liberal spectrum of economic thought.
There are other explanations than bad motives, at least for the economics.
During the great moderation, several different schools of thought could flourish, each interpreting ambiguous data its own way. Hard to tell who is right because everything is rolling along kinda on trend.
The painful experiments in economics that are needed to figure out who has an empirical theory that can explain and predict something useful happen in real life.
If Obama has a clue he will learn and adjust quick enough to survive as a politically effective president, just like others in the past have.
Remember that FDR ran on a reduce the deficit platform, and his first New Deal was a mess based on bad economics.
That is another way to interpret recent economic policy without invoking bad motives or willfull defeatism on Obama’s part.
Edit: I will vote in the next election and knock on doors to urge other Dems to do so because I think betting on Obama to learn is a better one than the GOP’s plans working or thinking that we need a crisis and the electorate will come to its senses somehow and choose a future liberal Democratic candidate who knows some economics.
lol
@Nick:
Letting the system burn to the ground so that a glorious paradise will rise from the ashes (never exactly made clear *how*) was John Galt’s plan too.
So this is another thing Firebaggers have in common with Teabaggers.
Frank
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
This type of logic makes one wonder what the hell the point was of defeating the Brittish a million years ago.
Furthermore, if you don’t vote, your non-vote simply doesn’t count. However, anybody who actually bothered to vote will have their vote actually counted.
I know of mid-terms where only 20% of the electorate voted. Do you really think that the person who won gave a rat’s ass that 80% didn’t vote?
morzer
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
President Gingrich says you’ve earned your Useful Idiot Merit Badge and you can take the weekend off.
Violet
@singfoom:
I tried to do that vote swap thing, where I lived in a red state and would vote for Nader in exchange for someone in a purple state voting for Gore. That got shut down pretty quickly for breaking election laws or something. I thought it was a good idea in general, but obviously ripe for fraud and other problems.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Yes, its all about what you wanted and how hard you worked and how when we finally do get a Dem in the White House they don’t do exactly what you want.
If you want a party that’s more in your line of ‘fuck you, its all about me me me’ maybe you should join up with the libertarians like your buddy Glennzilla.
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): .
The only place where there are millions of others like you is in your head.
lol
@jl:
I thought it was because no one outside the blogosphere knows who the fuck Krugman, Stiglitz, Galbraith, Baker, Solow, or Blinder are.
The problem is unemployment and Senate Republicans have every incentive in the world to make sure it stays high for the next 2 years.
Omnes Omnibus
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Actually, it is partially your fault. If you don’t participate this time around, blame for what happens will definitely attach to you.
I am not sure I understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that if your non-participation hurts liberal causes you will be happy about it? Or is it that you will be pleased if the Democrats are harmed?
I would suggest that you look at the consequences of a Republican majority, but I suspect that you just don’t care.
mr. whipple
@Nick:
Nader could have easily got his 3% by campaigning in large, safe states like CA and NY. The fact that he focused on swing states where the outcome was already razor thin should have been clue #1 he didn’t give a rat’s ass playing spoiler, and was in fact doing just that.
Nick
@Frank:
I wonder that too, they seem to doing a hell of a lot better. I wonder if they’ll take us back.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
What ‘millions’? And the rest of us don’t count?
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@fasteddie9318:
I’m mostly sending the message to ME, I suppose. By withdrawing from a political process that was bringing me far more frustration and emotional upset than satisfaction, I claimed ownership of REALITY. Then I brought those energies to bear on improving my own life and the lives of my family and friends in my own sphere. Worked out quite well. I was expending way too much energy trying to change things I CANNOT CHANGE.
I don’t have to participate in a smoke and mirrors, corrupt, vile and dehumanizing ritual just because it’s the only game in town. As an outside observer, the game becomes a source of entertainment and learning, rather than distress.
So many of you here seem to exist in a fantasy world where your vote really matters to the Dems, even after two presidential elections in which they didn’t give enough of a shit to claim what was theirs. Codependent. Stockholm Syndrome.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Nick:
Wow. Are you an active member of the Democratic Party?
If so, very easy to see why they are so fucked up. You’re full of free floating anger in general, so I’m happy to serve as the focus for your hate this evening, if that will make you feel better and superior, if only temporarily.
Have a nice evening stewing in your hatred.
morzer
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
The word you are groping for is SOLIPSISM.
But self-pitying selfish self-absorption would do just as well.
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Well at least you kindly admitted it was all about you.
Now those of us who care about, you know, the country, are going to go back and do serious things now.
Martin
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): So run for office. Vote green party. Hell, write in a candidate. I don’t give a fuck if you vote Dem, but at least participate.
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Nope. It’s all about him.
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
and yet I’m not the one who wants to fuck over the entire country because of a conspiracy theory I have.
fasteddie9318
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Right. You’re that rare breed of dispassionate outside observer who needs to flail around trying to justify himself to everybody. By avoiding the frustration of the political process, you’ve saved yourself enough mental energy to come to a blog and argue with people about how stupid it is to care about the political process. You’ve really got it figured out.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Stooleo:
With all of the suspicious GOP activities between 2000 and 2008, from secret meetings with oil executives to missing WMD to torture to god knows all, why is it that the Dems launched none of these types of investigations?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
‘Fuck you, its all about me.’ You do know this isn’t Reason, right?
(And for someone who spends ‘too much energy trying to change things YOU CANNOT CHANGE’ you’re still here commenting away, aren’t you?)
’cause you’re such an independent thinker, you and the ‘millions’ who think exactly like you do.
Martin
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Ah, so you’re the only one who can see the matrix for what it really is, eh? Psychiatrists have a diagnosis for that, you know.
slag
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
So what do you want here? Validation? You want everyone to proclaim your attention deficit disorder to be a rational response to circumstances? You’re not going to get it. You claim to be a REALIST and a rational person, but your behavior and attitude here is decidedly irrational.
KDP
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Oh, grow up!
We came out in the millions to elect a Democratic majority in 2006, and to elect Obama in 2010.
If we don’t stand up and vote in November to maintain that Democratic majority, with full knowledge of the outcome of a 14 year Republican majority, we’re childish and petulant wankers.
To me, it’s not a question of whether Democratic control will provide everything a progressive could want, but more a matter of protecting the middle class from the further depredations of Republican rule. We deserve 8 years of Democratic control, and the opportunity for them to effect a social and economic recovery.
If you don’t vote to maintain Democrat control, you are ceding national control to the neo-conservatives and teatards.
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
because they’re more interested in governing the country and finding ways to make people’s lives better than going on a fruitless battle for revenge that will end with nothing but acquittals and pardons.
Martin
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Because you only have subpoena power when you are the majority. Idiot.
Splitting Image
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
So if you’re basically rooting for the Republicans to fail, exactly what is the difference between you and Rush Limbaugh?
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@slag:
I’m fairly certain he already knows he’s not going to get it. He’s looking for validation of how he’s so much smarter and morally pure than the rest of us. Between that and his dreams of a violent revolution, I’m thinking he has to have a Che Guevara poster hanging on the wall behind the computer monitor.
Bob L
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Yes, what’s the difference between a shit sandwich and a no meat sandwich? They both aren’t the ham sandwich you really want so let’s go take a bite of the shit sandwich and wash it down with a nice cool glass of urine. It all turns to shit in the end so why not?
Seriously dude, voting against Republicans is the only reason needed.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Nick:
I’m honored and stupefied that you think me withholding my one vote is going to fuck over the country.
Even if that were the case, I doubt my teensy weensy one little vote, in NOT being cast of all things, would do nearly as much damage as the two parties in power have over the last ten years.
You strike me as a political junkie who likes to imagine that his involvement makes some sort of difference in the huge scheme of things. And while all that is going on, what is the state of your own life, in the sphere you really can effect?
slag
@jl: I know nothing about economics, but I pretty much agree with you. Not sure that works in your favor, though. Sorry ’bout that.
Bob L
@Splitting Image:
Interesting point. Please elaborate.
WereBear
Well, aren’t you special? There’s actually not any such thing as “hard won cynicism.” That happens by default when you want to pout and nurse your broken heart rather than heal and love again.
Besides, making the Republicans lose is a good enough reason for me.
slag
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-: Viva la Lack-of-Participation!
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
you keep accusing me of concern only with myself, intentionally ignoring my mention of family and friends who have benefited from my renewed focus on personal and business affairs within my own universe.
Good god, everyone exists in their own body/mind, there is no other way to experience life. Maybe you’re so focused on the BIG picture that you’re missing all the “little” things around you that really matter and which you can really effect.
just a thought.
KDP
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Maybe because the Democrats chose to focus their attention and energy on legislation and policy over retribution. Not that every legislative result was what every progressive would want, but they made the effort to improve the social structure for all of us.
@WereBear: What you said!!!!! Just to see them lose (especially boehner) after being so assured of victory is enough for me.
Frank
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Because they didn’t feel any pressure to do so. Hell, they were afraid of a backlash from the public. If you wanted investigations, then why didn’t you pressure them? Why didn’t you organize the millions you claim to represent to pressure them?
Do you really think they will be more likely to investigate the Republicans if you simply take your ball and go home?
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@Martin:
Um…the Dems have had majority status in congress for two years.
Omnes Omnibus
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Ok, Candide. Go tend to your own garden.
slag
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): Yeah. Because the 30 seconds it would take you to vote is really taking time away from the fam. Especially given the 20 hours you spend on Balloon Juice trying to convince everyone you’re doing the right thing.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Yes, your family and your friends and your own universe. Everyone and everything who matters to you. The rest of America can go blow itself. How very ‘progressive’.
morzer
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Cruel and unusual, aren’t we?
Just Some Fuckhead
I’m not of the mind that Republicans will take over anything in November. I’m not cynical enough to think that a bunch of no-solution radicals that completely broke the fucking world a mere couple of years ago will be given the keys to the kingdom after exhibiting even more insanity since they were put in time-out.
Not saying it won’t happen, just that I can’t fathom such a thing without actually seeing it happen.
The Sheriff's A Ni-
@Just Some Fuckhead:
Yeah, let me see what 538 is like come late October, and then I’ll start panicking.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@slag:
ha. I’ve not posted more than a few times on here in the last two weeks. but yeah, that’s 20 hours, whatever.
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
Whether you vote for not is irrelevant, but excuse me for trying to get you to see how important it is for everyone to be involved, but if you want to sit home and sulk, fine, be worthless. Don’t come here and act like it’s some kind of movement we need to respect. If you think you’re worthless, why are you surprised no one in power is paying attention to you?
No, I don’t think my involvement makes some sort of difference. If I died tomorrow, all it would mean is Anthony Weiner gets one less vote on Election Day. The Democratic Party and the country will survive. I’m just a small part of a larger movement. Unlike you, I don’t think its all about ME.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
My point all along has been that the current political system is utterly corrupt, I do not trust those who claimed in the past to represent me, etc. Why would I look to either to make life better for you and the rest of America?
BTW, I volunteer regularly in a non political capacity. Does that help? Or is it further fodder for random insults?
marcopolo
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim): You know, maybe part of the problem is the idea that your singular vote should “matter to the Dems”. Upthread there are a number of folks who have already pointed out that the vast majority of elected officials don’t pay any attention to the non-voters. I would add that given the exigencies of our political system and political campaigns that the vast majority of politicians (and this increases with the size of the electorate for any given position) aren’t going to give your opinions a lot of weight unless you can bring them a large bloc of like-minded voters or a hefty chunk of campaign financing. So where does that leave you? Well, you can opt out of participating which will guarantee that you play no role in how your government operates. Or, you could narrow your scope and increase your influence by concentrating on supporting local elected officials who are like minded and may enact the kinds of change you want on a local level–this includes putting yourself forward as a candidate for your school board or city council or serving on one of your local public advisory bodies (e.g. the parks commission). Or you can work your ass off figuring out a way to mobilize thousands of other folks to put pressure on national elected figures either through their voting in a bloc or making campaign contributions in a bloc. In all honesty though, playing armchair tag with the folks here at BJ is accomplishing just about as much as you deciding not to participate in elections–though it can fill up your free time in an entertaining manner.
My vote matters to me, and I cannot imagine ever voluntarily giving up my vote just because I live in a world where I will definitively never have a government that represents 100% of my views no matter how successful I am at getting folks elected. Furthermore, even if I was a successful politician and managed to get elected POTUS, I still wouldn’t have a government that represented 100% of my views because that is the nature of our political system which last I checked is not a dictatorship. President Obama definitely does not walk on water for me and I could go on for a long time as to where exactly I think he or his administration has pissed me off or fallen short in doing all they could do to rectify the horrors of the Bush regime or to make our country a better place for everyone living here; however, I don’t think it is all directed at me personally nor do I think it is all within their control and I always keep in my mind what things might be like if instead of our current administration we had a Prez McCain and VP Palin.
Which is why I need to go drink some Big Tire now.
morzer
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
So, after the self-pity and the sociopathic rage, we get to hear three more sentences of.. self-pity?
Nick
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
you’re idea of making life better is launching dead end investigations into things that happened six years ago.
I have a job today because of the stimulus. I know that for a fact. That’s why you should look at one of them to make my life and other Americans lives better. But I’m pretty sure you couldn’t give a shit about me or anyone else.
You know, I knew someone like you. She worked in a soup kitchen and then blabbed about voting for Nader and doing it again in 2008. I said “Are you bored?” she asked “No, why?” and I answered “Well I figure your goal was to let the GOP do more damage to us so more people will come to the soup kitchens and you can volunteer more time”
marcopolo
@The Sheriff’s A Ni-:
Ah, but he and his friends and family are insulated so well that no matter how much a Republican government screws up the environment and the economy (through things such as deregulation) in pursuit of rewarding the wealthy and corporations, none of that will have any effect on them. He must not have a lot of friends not to know someone who is unemployed or having problems financial problems with their house or medical issues that are bankrupting them.
Odie Hugh Manatee
The rats he
worksshills for?Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@marcopolo:
wow. You’re such an assuming ass.
I am self employed and struggle financially most of the time. But I do something I love to do, and have spent too much of my former career trying to fit other, more accepted molds. That route has brought me little but frustration. I’m not on food stamps, welfare, or unemployment; but I don’t begrudge those who are. I support a robust, generous social safety net.
Which, once again, Obama’s catfood commission is doing its best to cripple. But I digress…
…where do you get off making these baseless assumptions? Please advise.
It rarely fails to astound me how BJ regulars make all the same types of blanket assumptions and self-serving, ego-satisfying accusations attributed to others, like me, who dare to post in opposition to the group think here.
Which I do because it’s entertaining and occasionally educational. But yeah…usually frustrating and somewhat depressing. You don’t come here to debate or exchange ideas; you come here to tell each other how awesome your current positions and attitudes are. A basic circle jerk.
But again, wow, you are way out of line.
Cacti
I’ll vote out of civic duty, but here in bonzo-crazy, bash-a-spic, Maricopa County Arizona, I might as well be pissing in the wind.
Omnes Omnibus
@Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim):
I came for the dogs, but I stayed for the self-important lectures from people like you.
DougJ
Can I make a request: stop engaging Glenndacious Greenwaldian (tim). We have quality combat commenters here — TZ, Church Lady, eemom, Hugin and Munin, Accountancy guy — and if you want to get into a flame war, do it with one of them.
The quality of this ongoing flame war with Glenndacious Greenwaldian (tim) is among the lowest I’ve ever seen on this blog.
jwb
@DougJ: “The quality of this ongoing flame war with Glenndacious Greenwaldian (tim) is among the lowest I’ve ever seen on this blog.”
Ouch. With an endorsement like that, I’m glad I missed it.
SiubhanDuinne
@Zandar #19:
Great list. Also too:
Takes too many vacations
Works too hard
Vacations in exotic, expensive places proving he is an elitist
Vacations in normal, regular places, proving he is a manipulative political cynic
Goes months between press conferences
Over-exposes himself to the press
Relies on a teleprompter, proving he is a terrible public speaker
Pauses between thoughts and says “Um,” proving he is a terrible public speaker
NobodySpecial
I’d like to know who’s voting for Obama this year. Because that’s some really good medication you’re on, and it might come in handy.
Just Some Fuckhead
@Nick: If you want everyone to be involved, you need to find a hole somewhere, crawl in it and die because you ain’t helping. Just trust me on that, Big Jew Media Nick.
Glenndacious Greenwaldian (formerly tim)
@DougJ:
I’m curious: what would be your definition of a high quality flame war?
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Firebagger sez:
That’s the one thing that the Firebaggers and Teabaggers agree on; the Tree of Liberty being watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants. The Firebaggers want it to happen and the Teabaggers want to do it.
A match made in heaven.
/wretch
Just Some Fuckhead
@DougJ: Yeah, I thought the same thing about Front page blogging when they added you.
slightly_peeved
Some people aren’t happy because Obama hasn’t given the US the social safety nets of countries like France, Germany, Canada or Australia. But none of those countries got their social safety nets through 1 leader in two years; they did so as a result of long-term, cohesive efforts from the left side of politics that still continue to this day.
One major difference is that those countries, by and large, don’t have the filibuster, which everyone seems to forget when they complain Obama hasn’t gotten them two tickets to that thing they like. The biggest political difference between those countries and the US in that the left isn’t engaged in a vicious cycle where the political party and the underlying political movement ignore each other, then do badly, then use the doing badly as further reason to ignore each other. A lot of people in the US left seem to think solidarity is a dirty word, as opposed to being key to the entire history of the political left. You can’t have a leftist government without an underlying leftist movement, and you can’t have a leftist movement – heck, any political movement – without the concept of solidarity, and the sacrifices that requires.
kommrade reproductive vigor
Every time a PUMA whines we wouldn’t be in this mess if Obama had let Clinton win, drink.
No wait. That would be fatal ATO in 15 minutes.
Al G.
@california asset protection: “the democrats are in trouble because they didn’t listen to the people.”
word.