On the Upside, No One Was Lynched

So now we’re burning mosques:

Federal officials are investigating a fire that started overnight at the site of a new Islamic center in a Nashville suburb.

Ben Goodwin of the Rutherford County Sheriff’s Department confirmed to CBS Affiliate WTVF that the fire, which burned construction equipment at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, is being ruled as arson. . . .

We’re getting to the point that I just don’t want to even talk about politics any more. It is just too depressing, and even smart people I know are spouting nonsense. I had a discussion with someone I’ve known a long time about the Glenn Beck nonsense yesterday, and all that person could say was “If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton.” Because you know how much power Al Sharpton has in the Democratic party, as opposed to the lunatics in the driver’s seat of the GOP. I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

I just changed the topic. FOX news and the race-baiters have us all by the balls.






211 replies
  1. 1
    merrinc says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    You take that back, you damn whippersnapper. And then get the hell off my lawn.

  2. 2
    The Commish says:

    The ignorant insanity on display in the news in recent months is one of the reasons I wanted to fire up the fantasy football. A little distraction to get through some dark times.

    I don’t even want to think about November, or the next congress.

  3. 3
    licensed to kill time says:

    Ahem. Not every WPO50. Brush very broad, sir! eta: you fix!

  4. 4
    Martin says:

    Hey now, they’re trying to Restore America’s Honor. Was a time when burning churches was a socially acceptable activity and witnesses were honorable enough to not call the FBI. But today, they’ll snitch on a white man doing Jesus’s work in a heartbeat. Where’s the honor in that?

  5. 5
    jim says:

    I can’t even fathom what that person has been reading or watching this past year that would cause him to think Sharpton is a person who wields any power.

  6. 6
    Lolis says:

    These people are the minority. They just get a lot of attention. We can’t forget that.

  7. 7
    SIA says:

    @merrinc: Wait for me, I’m grabbing a rusty pitchfork.
    /over 50 extremely relatively sane white lady (ETA correction)

  8. 8
    Yutsano says:

    @Martin: Because nothing says “Join our welcome accepting church!” like burning down a mosque! See? I know how this works! It worked for centuries on the Jews in Europe! Oh wait…

  9. 9
    Sly says:

    “If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton.”

    Back during the 2008 campaign, some acquaintances of mine were very concerned that Obama might have ties to Louis Farrakhan, but the fact that Farrakhan did not publicly endorse him gave them some comfort. They were still very concerned, however.

    After the campaign, I saw a speech given by Farrakhan explaining why he never spoke out in favor of Obama during the campaign. His explanation, paraphrased, was: “If I didn’t like him, I would have endorsed him.” Indicating that he knew the sensibilities of the white majority better than the white majority knew themselves.

    Which I found somewhat humorous.

  10. 10
    Ben says:

    I’m not to sure, but I don’t think an attack on a religion is racism. Nor do I think it’s “phobic” to hate Islam. There is a reason why those countries are so backward with stoning adulterers, homosexuals, cutting off the noses of people along with other limbs. Hell, we can’t even draw a picture of Mohammad and show it in public without having the threat of violence put upon us. Christopher Hitchens, Salman Rushdie, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali all have to go around with a security detail just because of their criticisms of Islam in the United States. I am very suspecious of Islam as I am with all religions, but Islam more so.

  11. 11
    PurpleGirl says:

    Sometime in the early 90s, Sharpton ran for the US Senate. Among the other Democratic contenders were Liz Holtzman and Robert Abrams. The three of them were on a Sunday morning talk show. I swear, Sharpton was the only adult talking about policy and problems and solutions. (Not that I remember specifics.) But Holtzman and Abrams were bickering and picking at each other like small children. I voted for Sharpton in that primary.

  12. 12
    lucslawyer says:

    Can’t wait for MM to rant that Sharpton pushed the arsonist over the edge….

  13. 13
    Cerberus says:

    Yeah…

    It’s the last dying gasps of white supremacy, the cowardly terrorist tactics that group of fucknozzles turns to when they sense that the times when they could dominate without reprisal are coming to an end.

    Sadly for the rest of us, that doesn’t help. It means we have to survive their terrorism and their hate, limping through the victory they will turn around and claim credit for when we ram it down their throat once and for all. And they will resist the implementation of justice and any further upset to their “natural order” with all their might, repeating the same atrocities when they can get away with it.

    Take heart that it means great social changes are around the bend. It may be Interesting Times to live through, but the future is bright. Mainly because these fuckwads won’t be alive much longer and the Kids are all right.

  14. 14
    SIA says:

    “If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton get rid of all the brown people.”

    There. That’s better.

  15. 15
    Chad N Freude says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    That explains why so many of us read this blog and comment in agreement with the positions the front-pagers put forth.

  16. 16
    kdaug says:

    And, as evidenced by the Rich column today, in the hands of billionaires.

    Where do I sign up for the class war?

  17. 17
    SIA says:

    Take heart that it means great social changes are around the bend. It may be Interesting Times to live through, but the future is bright. Mainly because these fuckwads won’t be alive much longer and the Kids are all right.

    Thank you, I needed to hear this. Light at the end of the tunnel and all that – hopefully it’s not a freight train. :-)

  18. 18
    Vince CA says:

    Alright, since we’ve the meta, let me just say that what I like(d) about this blog was it’s utter lack of fetishizing the so-called culture wars. If I want that siht, I can head on over to the Great Orange Satan. If this blog doesn’t start taking itself seriously again, I swear to no god that I’m going to only read Yglesias.

  19. 19
    gnomedad says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    No worries, just found mine. Between the sofa cushions as usual.

  20. 20
    chaseyourtail says:

    I totally agree John. I don’t know what pisses me off more, conservative nuts or pathologically myopic liberals. I guess the myopic liberal wins because they are supposed to know better. They are supposed to know what’s at stake. And not to be ageist but it seems there is a direct correlation between liberal tunnel vision and age. Maybe it’s dementia…who knows? But, yeah, it’s absolutely fucking depressing.

    Disclaimer: I certainly don’t think all older white liberals fall into this category. But a lot of them do.

  21. 21
    burnspbesq says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    Beg pardon?

  22. 22
    jeffreyw says:

    Who has time to watch TV? Busy trying to find a recipe to use up some of the boudin sausage Mrs J dragged from the freezer this morning. Just had to wing it. Google found a thousand recipes for making boudin, not much help. We just had to use what we had on hand with the knowledge that flops could quietly be shoved into the garbage disposer.

  23. 23
    Chad N Freude says:

    I really don’t like Sharpton (anyone remember Tawana Brawley)? His record does not inspire a lot of confidence in me.

  24. 24
    Cacti says:

    Old school Klan tactics have become retro-chic.

    We’ve gone from vandalism to attempted murder and arson in the space of a week.

    Someone is going to die soon.

  25. 25
    Chad N Freude says:

    @burnspbesq: You might agree with @Chad N Freude.

  26. 26
    Chad S says:

    The ignorant insanity is much louder thanks to the rise of the blogosphere and Fox News’ working hand in glove to echo what they want to put out there as a narrative, but all the polling belies some massive shift towards Beckiantardism. Obama’s numbers, even including Rasmussen’s “polling” haven’t changed much since the beginning of the year. Sharon Angle can’t get a lead on an extremely unpopular incumbent in a very purple state. The generic ballot numbers are leaning slightly towards the GOP but the Dem fundraising figures are still running strong.

    I don’t disagree that there’s a lot of anger and fear out there, but I wonder how much of it(outside of what anyone sees day to day) is blog/Fox created echos of a movement much smaller than it actually is. Beck’s rally numbers would tend to support that thesis.

  27. 27
    demkat620 says:

    Okay so my 80ish grandmother was her about two weeks ago. Complete with wingnut talking points. She said Obama has never shown anyone his birth certificate with the raised seal. This is important! Everybody has those!

    Fast forward to this week, she’s going on a Caribbean cruise next spring with a bunch of family members and guess what she needs to get a passport?

    A birth certificate with a raised seal. She is one hot little grandma over that and doesn’t think anybody needs that for anything. Cause she doesn’t currently have one.

    You can’t make this shit up.

  28. 28
    Cerberus says:

    @Ben:

    Quite true, there are other reasons besides racism to dislike certain religions or at least certain interpretations of certain religions.

    Unfortunately for you, the fact that you felt the need to post this in response to this particular story, with a paranoid list dehumanizing an entire group of people with casual ease, kinda demonstrates that regardless of what may drive the animosity of those like Hitchens, your founding resistance to Islam is 100% grade-A old-fashioned racist hate.

    Maybe try developing actual principles rather than borrowing a thin veneer to hide behind.

    Or at least check your inner censor for whether it’s quite appropriate to be a complete ass with regards to Mosques being bombed by terrorists. For fuck’s sake man, grow some humanity already.

    They are trying to kill Muslims simply for being who they are.

  29. 29
    Yutsano says:

    @jeffreyw:

    We just had to use what we had on hand with the knowledge that flops could quietly be shoved into the garbage disposer.

    What about the puppehs? Will no one think of the puppehs? Although it has happened that my mom once made a total cooking disaster that even our dog wouldn’t touch. Mom didn’t even try to cover her mistake, she just called for the pizza after the atrocity was done.

    @Mike in NC: What the incessant knob polishing of Walnuts after his huge primary victory isn’t enough for you? Probably not enough for Grandpa either come to think of it. Arizona grow a brain dammit!

  30. 30
    Frank says:

    So what is the difference between Kristallnacht and the Nazis with the people that burnt down this mosque?

  31. 31
    debit says:

    @jeffreyw: I think I am drowning in a puddle of my own drool.

  32. 32
    ploeg says:

    @Ben: Not that it’s any better to hate somebody for what you think their religion stands for (I’m of the opinion that practically all Moslems in the US are OK with having a multicultural society where you don’t have sharia law in charge; otherwise they wouldn’t be living here). The proof is whether these people would be more accepting of those who merely look Islamic (Sikhs, say), or those who converted from Islam, or the children or grandchildren of same. Otherwise you’re just using religion as a cover for your racism.

  33. 33
    Chad N Freude says:

    @demkat620: Yeah, but she hasn’t subverted the Constitution.

  34. 34
    Ana Gama says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    That leaves a mark.

  35. 35
    Mike in NC says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    Read that today is McCain’s 74th birthday. Was he on MTP this morning, and if so did they roll out a big cake and sing to him?

  36. 36
    amorphous says:

    “If I didn’t like him, I would have endorsed him.” Indicating that he knew the sensibilities of the white majority better than the white majority knew themselves.

    Which means you would put the poison as far away from you as possible!

    /Princess Bride’d

  37. 37
    smiley says:

    @The Commish:

    I don’t even want to think about November, or the next congress.

    I’ve been wondering about the November elections and the right-wing’s premature triumphalism. Any chance that declaring victory this far out could actually somewhat suppress voter turnout among right wingers (and dems too, of course)? Nah, probably not.

  38. 38
    burnspbesq says:

    The comments at the Nashville Tennessean website will turn your stomach.

    http://www.tennessean.com/comm.....osque-site

  39. 39
    Martin says:

    @Ben:

    There is a reason why those countries are so backward with stoning adulterers, homosexuals, cutting off the noses of people along with other limbs. Hell, we can’t even draw a picture of Mohammad and show it in public without having the threat of violence put upon us.

    Really? There’s a lot of stoning, cutting off of noses, and censorship of pictures of Mohamad going on in Tennessee? Good Lord, not watching Fox has caused me to miss these very important news stories!

  40. 40
    jwb says:

    @The Commish: Yes, but now I can’t even think about football without thinking about how much Fox makes from airing football.

  41. 41
    aimai says:

    This is the crux of my argument with my over fifty year old white sister in law. Lost her shit? I’ll say she’s lost her shit. She doesn’t know anything about her daddy’s party (the republicans) and she never did. She took it all on faith. Daddy was nice, and she’s nice, so stop saying that her party’s entire shtick is covering up the tax cuts for the wealthy with race baiting, gay baiting, jew/and or muslim baiting whichever appeals at the moment. Oh, and hate the immigrant hordes. Plus the poor people. Lost her shit? she’s lost mine, too. I can’t stand to think that these people will ever get back into power.

    aimai

  42. 42
    demkat620 says:

    @Chad N Freude: And I take her at her word that she’s not a muslim.

  43. 43
    freelancer says:

    Yesterday Glenn Beck tried to “reclaim” the mantle of MLK,
    and yesterday, a patriotic, “conservative” American who no doubt would refuse to denounce Glenn Beck or his rhetoric set fire to a proposed place of worship.

    The mind reels.

  44. 44
    jeffreyw says:

    @Yutsano: The puppehs are tomato sauce averse, tho if I wipe it off a sausage nugget, they’ll eat it. Usually.

  45. 45
    Chad N Freude says:

    @Frank: They didn’t burn down a mosque, they

    burned construction equipment at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro

    but only because the mosque isn’t there yet.

    Re the Nazis vs. the would-be-mosque-burners, the former are Nazis while the latter are honest, hardworking, good Christian Americans who honor those provisions of the Constitution that don’t conflict with something they want.

  46. 46
    jeffreyw says:

    @debit: It was surprisingly tasty! I credit my special sauce.

  47. 47
    burnspbesq says:

    @Ben:

    Read the Old Testament lately?

  48. 48
    TuiMel says:

    We’re getting to the point that I just don’t want to even talk about politics any more. It is just too depressing, and even smart people I know are spouting nonsense.

    On a recent visit back to my “home” in New England, I had an extremely troubling conversation with my brother, who is a decent, intelligent man, IMO. His arguments and demeanor struck me as unhinged. I still cannot get the vision of him, nearly spitting with indignation, declaring his views and intentions for the political future of this nation. It was as if the “Town Hall” vibe from last summer had invaded his dining room, and I was the congress-critter being shouted down. I admit this confrontation has knocked me off my blocks a bit. Never has the damage Fox News has done by disencumbering the right from any burden of critical thought been more plain to me than it was during that conversation. It made me very worried about November. It reminded me that no matter how disappointed I have been in Democratic leadership (and I have been) the alternative is packed full of ideas and aspirations that are 180 degrees out from what I believe.

    I came away with a renewed awareness that I need to fight for half a political loaf (or a single slice) and the possibility of achieving more in the future, because if I don’t the Fox Meme-masters win. And, I will have been more feckless than I sometimes accuse the Democrats of being. I am not letting Dems off the hook, but I have a better understanding of where the lines are.

  49. 49
    Yutsano says:

    @Chad N Freude: Cafeteria Constitutionalists. Scalia didn’t arise in a vacuum after all.

    @jeffreyw: As I recall, my uncle had a Brittany spaniel that was a fussy eater. So maybe it’s indigenous to the breed. I had a vizsla who was a human food whore usually except that one night. She just looked at her bowl and whined. Of course when the pizza arrived she was right under my feet begging. She figured out the easy mark early.

  50. 50

    @Ben: So when are you signing up for the anti-Cat Stevens(aka Yusuf Islam) brigade?

  51. 51
    Amir_Khalid says:

    @Ben:

    I don’t think an attack on a religion is racism.

    Religious bigotry isn’t racism, true. But it’s still bigotry.

    As for the rest of your post, being sensitive about perceived slights to one’s faith or faith community (and, yes, intentional ones too) to the point of violent rage is all too common among Muslims. But as you know perfectly well, Muslims are most definitely not unique in that. And in America right now, who is doing most of the slighting?

  52. 52
    bemused says:

    @demkat620:
    Oh my. Sadly, pretty common among seniors who believe everything on rightwing tv. Did you dare ask grandmother why Obama should have to show a raised seal birth certificate but not her?

  53. 53
    burnspbesq says:

    @Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle:

    I’ve been a card-carrying member of the anti-Yusuf Islam brigade ever since “Tea for the Tillerman.” Lame shit is lame shit, no matter who is writing and singing it.

  54. 54
    wilfred says:

    Now?

    http://www.islamophobia-watch......tegory/usa

    Granted, it’s worse in Europe; but it’s nothing new.

  55. 55
    jwb says:

    @Ben: Have you been paying attention to what our fanatical xtians want here? Then, too, we still fry people alive here in electric chairs. We evidently also believe it acceptable to practice all sorts of medieval and modern forms of torture. We think it’s ok for police officers to taser old ladies. In any case, Islam in the US is not Islam of the Taliban, and burning down places of worship and community gathering is neither cool nor understandable.

  56. 56
    Guster says:

    @Ben: I agree. I hate , because it’s anti-gay, anti-woman, anti-separation-of-church-and-state, and seems intent on pushing people to commit acts of violence.

  57. 57
    Guster says:

    @Guster: Oops! Dropped a word!

  58. 58
    morzer says:

    @Ben:

    Nor do I think it’s “phobic” to hate

    Well, when you come down to it, setting fire to something isn’t really arson, is it? Didn’t Comrade Glenn just explain that today we take back the meaning of arson?

  59. 59
    artem1s says:

    @merrinc:

    ditto!

  60. 60
    Brachiator says:

    @Frank:

    So what is the difference between Kristallnacht and the Nazis with the people that burnt down this mosque?

    Scale and government complicity.

    Also, GOP officials, tea baggers, and Sarah Palin should be asked whether they officially “refudiate” this awful act, and the sentiments of some interviewed in the area, such as this:

    “No mosque in Murfreesboro. I don’t want it. I don’t want them here,” Evy Summers said to WTVF. “Go start their own country overseas somewhere. This is a Christian country. It was based on Christianity.

  61. 61
    FoxinSocks says:

    Is there anything we can do for that Muslim community in Murfreesboro? Perhaps an e-mail address where we could send them a message of support?

    I’m so disgusted by the bigots in this country.

  62. 62

    “If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton.”

    And give Ralph Nader a pony. Yaaaawn.

    @Ben: So. You think some fucks in Tennessee set a fire because they’re upset by the rigid interpretations of acceptable sexual behaviour?

    Bwahahaaha!

    Nicely done sir.

  63. 63
    chaseyourtail says:

    @aimai:

    I’ll say she’s lost her shit.

    Sounds like she never had her shit to begin with and this is the problem with so many Americans. People like her were never taught to think critically and apparently it’s way too late for her to start. You won’t break through that wall no matter how hard you try. Once people like that reach a certain age it’s like their brains are set in cement – no new perspective or ideas can penetrate. I understand how you feel though, I can’t deal with profound stupidity either…It reminds me of the saying:

    “It’s like trying to teach math to a pig, it frustrates the human and pisses off the pig.”

  64. 64
    morzer says:

    If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton

    Because Al Sharpton is fat, you know. And don’t you forget it!

  65. 65
    Ben says:

    OK…I knew it wouldn’t be long before I was called a racist..so let me say, once again, that I am suspicious of all religions and think they’re all dangerous: I’m an atheist. But, I do not condone violence or vandalizing or any of the other insane crap that’s going on.

    I was referring to the idea that any criticism of Islam is called racism or one gets called a racist. As if all Muslims are dark skinned. That is pretty damned stereotypical.

    Oh, I think the Pope should be arrested for the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church too.

  66. 66
    Frank says:

    @Brachiator:

    I guess I meant what is the difference in terms of evilness. You are correct in that it has to reach the scale and govt complicity of Nazi Germany. But they are both going after one specific group and they are both equally evil.

    “No mosque in Murfreesboro. I don’t want it. I don’t want them here,” Evy Summers said to WTVF. “Go start their own country overseas somewhere. This is a Christian country. It was based on Christianity.

    Why does this person live here? She apparently hates our constitution where there is separation of church and state. We are a Christian country? Could she please tell us where in the constitution this is said?

  67. 67
    The Dangerman says:

    Back in the 60’s, there were Dark Forces (undefined) that seemed hell bent on getting it on with a final fight against Communism (by invading Cuba). Of course, Kennedy didn’t buy in…

    …and we all know how THAT ended.

    Now, there are Dark Forces (again undefined) that seem hell bent on getting it on with Islam. Knife a Cabby? Fire at a Mosque under construction? And we’re just getting started as long as Sarah and Glenn have their megaphones.

    Seems those Dark Forces learned their lesson from their previous failure to “get it on”; the Soviet threat, rather shockingly, dissipated. So, pick a threat that won’t dissipate as readily and, presto, we have the new Boogey Man of Islam.

    I’m going to take a nap and pull the covers up well over my head.

  68. 68
    Nick says:

    “If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton.”

    someone said the exact same thing to me today too, as if Al Sharpton is the Democratic equivalent of Glenn Beck! Then he went on to say the same thing of Rachel Maddow and Ed Schultz.

    You know, I have to say, Joe Miller (Insane-Alaska) mentioned something about giving power back to the states…I’m hard pressed to disagree. We, as a nation, have no more uniting features, let’s just carve it up and go our own way.

  69. 69
    morzer says:

    @Ben:

    Not a racist, just a hater of a particular group? That’s a mighty fine distinction you have there. Or do you feel you can wear a shiny Gold Star for Bigotry with authentic pride, so long as no-one points out that hatred is hate, whether directed to pink, brown, golden or copper people?

    I was referring to the idea that any criticism of Islam is called racism or one gets called a racist.

    In your fantasies, perhaps. Not in real life. And stop playing the victim. You’ve expressed your hatred, and you don’t like being called on it.

  70. 70
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Ben: You libtards are all so blinded by your political correctitude that you can’t see the simple logic in what Ben is saying. I myself have been campaigning for years to get the Irish kicked out of America. All those carbombs and terrorism, their obsessive hatred of our closest ally in the region, flying Irish flags in this country, their churches and schools, and you know they breed like rabbits because they’re trying to impose their mackerel-snapping, drunken ways on this fine country. St Patrick’s Day is nothing but a celebration of the IRA triumphalism. Nosirree, Bob, I won’t rest until this country is free of the spectre of militant Irishism. I’m gonna start by calling my parents again and telling them to get the hell back to County Clare

  71. 71
    Lizzy says:

    I didn’t watch one talk show this morning and I had a GREAT day!! The only burning question I have is “Where’s Earl?” ;)

  72. 72
    MattF says:

    Well, I’m white and over-50, and my shit hasn’t gone anywheres unusual. And my next-door neighbor is a wealthy over-70 retired tax lawyer who worked the phones and went door-to-door for Obama. And I can multiply the examples. So. Don’t generalize, we of the formerly-cute generations aren’t all stupid.

  73. 73
    chaseyourtail says:

    @Cerberus:

    It’s the last dying gasps of white supremacy, the cowardly terrorist tactics that group of fucknozzles turns to when they sense that the times when they could dominate without reprisal are coming to an end.

    Correct, it all comes down to this.

  74. 74
    aimai says:

    @Ben:

    Look, ben, as a fellow atheist may I offer you a hint. Its perfectly true that anti-islamic sentiment doesn’t have to be racist. You can be opposed to many of the laws and theological points raised by (some) forms of Islamic government/society without being racist. But its a fact that most of the current format of anti-muslim agitation in this country is strictly and opportunistically racist. The popular assumption that islam is a “seed” passed from “father to son”–that its some kind of ineradicable taint that has affected Obama on a conscious or unconscious level? That’s straight up racism. Not because its not nice. But because it assumes that Islam is coded in the DNA of black people and, conversely, that the only good american is a white/christian one.

    Also, there are many, many, islams since its different in every country that practices it. The insistence that there’s only one, and that they all stone adulterers or whatever, is absurd. Its also historically bizarre–the ones that do the most stoning and have the worst record on women’s rights and gay rights are also our *closest allies* and always have been–and by that I mean the closest allies of our would be theocrats like the Bush family.

    aimai

  75. 75
    Hal says:

    Makes me think of the time when I was a kid, and Jesse Jackson was running for President. A friend of mine told me his parents would not vote for Jesse Jackson because he would “give all the rights to black people.”

    These were middle class, white Democrats whose son had a black best friend (me.) But, my mother is white, so they probably figured only half of me could be bad…

    Even in the days of the civil rights movement, when blacks had very little power, whites rallied for fear that if blacks could obtain any type of power in society, they would turn around and do to whites exactly what had been done to them. Jackson and Sharpton are ultra-convenient boogeymen to scare the average older white middle class.

  76. 76
    Zandar says:

    The only good thing about a GOP Congress will be that they have to govern.

    …oh wait, they can wait out the next two years of economic catastrophe by passing idiotic laws that the president will have to veto and then blame Obama for everything.

    Yeah, we’re pretty much fucked.

  77. 77
    Emma says:

    Whoah, buddy. Watch that over-fifty brush… oh. I’m one of those minority types. Never mind.

  78. 78
    Sly says:

    @Ben:

    I’m not to sure, but I don’t think an attack on a religion is racism.

    They may not be the same, but they’re not mutually exclusive. Historically, religious bigotry has associations with racial or ethnic bigotry. Even a cursory example of the rhetoric applied against groups like Irish Catholic immigrants to the U.S. or Jews in Europe reveals a strong belief that religion is, to a large extent, in the blood. The Inquisitors-General of the Church in the medieval period believed likewise, as even the descendants of Iberian Jews and Muslims, who themselves converted to Christianity on threat of death or expulsion, were considered suspect classes even after the second and third generations. They called it Pureza de Sangre: Blood Purity.

    Apropos of nothing, the Iberians were well versed in regimenting their societies into religious-racial castes. In fact the word itself is Iberian in origin (from “Casta,” meaning lineage, derived from the Latin “Chastas,” meaning pure) and was likely transposed onto the Indian Varnas by Portuguese traders.

    While this is something that has gone out of fashion over time, there are still remnants. An Egyptian gentleman in my neighborhood (who is a Coptic Christian) faced a fair bit of harassment a few years ago by both religious and race bigots because they made the assumptions that funny accent + brownish skin = Muslim, and that Muslim = Terrorist. So the recent story about the two Egyptian Coptics who were harassed near Park 51 for “looking Muslimish” when they were actually there to join the protest against the site didn’t surprise me at all.

    Not to mention Franklin Graham’s whole “Seed of Islam” nonsense.

  79. 79
    aimai says:

    @Hal:

    Something else that needs saying is that as people get older they have a hard time learning new names and faces. Fox etc… has correctly divined that people are happier and respond better to the old enemies, even (and perhaps especially) because no one can now remember why we hated them. When Jesse Jackson made his infamous “hymie town” remark, for example, you can bet half his white listeners nodded their heads and said “well, he’s right on that one!” But they’ve long since forgotten it, and him, except as a name. I’m surprised they aren’t digging up Adam Clayton Powell to run against.

    aimai

  80. 80
    Brachiator says:

    @Frank:

    I guess I meant what is the difference in terms of evilness. You are correct in that it has to reach the scale and govt complicity of Nazi Germany. But they are both going after one specific group and they are both equally evil.

    I agree with you here, but in thinking about it more, I think that there is still an opportunity for decent people to oppose and stop this madness. And this is why I think that it is important for people to keep pressure on the GOP and others to take a stand and denounce bigotry.

    Right now, some of the more vocal defenders of the arson are motivated as much by fear as by bigotry.

    Opponents of a new Islamic center say they believe the mosque will be more than a place of prayer; they are afraid the 15-acre site that was once farmland will be turned into a terrorist training ground for Muslim militants bent on overthrowing the U.S. government.
    __
    “They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group,” Bob Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area, told The Associated Press.

    But this kind of thing takes on an entirely different level of vileness when political leaders, as is the case with some in the GOP, openly stoke these fears.

    And when bigotry becomes official government policy, then all is lost.

  81. 81
    PaulW says:

    I dunno if anyone else mentioned this yet, haven’t read all the comments… but isn’t Nashville also where the wingnuts like to shoot up Unitarian churches?

    Oh, my bad. That was KNOXVILLE. Same state. Same state of mind…

  82. 82
    Nick says:

    @Frank:

    So what is the difference between Kristallnacht and the Nazis with the people that burnt down this mosque?

    it hasn’t happened all over Germany America, yet?

  83. 83
    Alex S. says:

    The next 20 years will be terrible. The white majority will end and America will be surpassed as a world power by China. The american decline, the final gasps of a dying demography and destructive conservatism go hand in hand and reinforce each other. But then it will get better, because there will be nothing left to lose, ideologically speaking. The sane people need to protect the cornerstones of this democracy until then, the Civil Rights acts, social security, medicare/aid, minimum wages and the like. And I guess it’s probably best to reserve some space in your mind for things other than politics, things to keep you sane for a while.

  84. 84
    pablo says:

    Yo John, don’t lump me in with those cretins, and I’m 62.8.

    I think Godwin has something to say.

  85. 85
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @aimai:

    our would be theocrats like the Bush family

    I would argue with you only in that the Bush family–historically and culturally, Poppy, Big Bad Bar and James Baker– are not theocrats, they actually look down on theocrats as vulgar NOKDs, but useful in getting the proles to the polls to maintain what they view as a proper order. Even Dumbya, with his wet-brained, self-agrandizing religious delusions (Gog and Magog, God told me…), doesn’t go all the way along with the agenda. He was recently quoted as saying, in private, that he had no interest in telling gay kids they could never get married. Even in his own political circle, Dumbya treated Rove with contempt, think about the moniker “turd blossom”. The Bushes and McCain, even Reagan, are the monkeys who let the tigers out of their cages.

  86. 86
    chaseyourtail says:

    @pablo: Would that make you a December baby?

  87. 87
    Nick says:

    @Alex S.:

    I guess it’s probably best to reserve some space in your mind for things other than politics, things to keep you sane for a while.

    Well I’m thankful I speak four languages…so I’m taking the time to learn four more…inspired by the story of my great grandfather learning English when it became clear he would very soon have to take off for the US, Canada or Australia because it had become too much to live in war-torn poverty stricken Europe.

  88. 88
    aimai says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    Yeah, I know, but to please their theocratic base they always sided with countries with the worst record on women’s rights and gay rights. I admit that Bush senior, certainly, was too country club to go for the full religious monty, and Bush junior did it largely out of convenience and ambition, but, nevertheless, they both laid down with theocrats and specifically with islamic ones because the one thing those guys really loved as an authoritarian.

    aimai

  89. 89
    burnspbesq says:

    @chaseyourtail:

    I can’t deal with profound stupidity either

    Really? Because you said something profoundly stupid in that comment.

    Once people like that reach a certain age it’s like their brains are set in cement – no new perspective or ideas can penetrate.

    People like what?

  90. 90
    sherifffruitfly says:

    Obviously the sensitivities of white christians are the paramount concern here.

  91. 91
    Bnut says:

    My dad is over 50. He’s white. And liberal. Wears a Mexican cowboy style poncho to family gatherings. Has a Jewfro. I’m not gonna argue about the insanity thing Cole brings up.

  92. 92
    Joey Maloney in Paradise says:

    Oh, this’ll be fun.

    The Rev. Jeremiah Wright, President Barack Obama’s controversial former pastor, referred to people who wrongly believe Obama is Muslim as “psychopaths” during a fiery sermon Sunday in Arkansas.

    Fox outrage-gasm in 3…2…1…

  93. 93
    burnspbesq says:

    @Ben:

    “Oh, I think the Pope should be arrested for the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church too. ”

    I’m Catholic. If you can make out a prima facie case, with admissible evidence, that the current Pope has committed a crime, then I will join you in cheering his arrest. I think he’s the worst thing that has happened to the Church in generations.

    But if you can’t, then I will politely invite you to STFU.

  94. 94
    Cermet says:

    @Ben: No, you are not a racist – as someone who has studied Islam (both its history, customs and religious aspects and a little of its language) and knows its past glory, tolerance, and how it saved so much valuable knowledge and advanced math and science for hundreds of years, many of your current objections are valid. Not sure how Islam will evolve with science and the modern world but I am very scared how we are de-evolving with the repub-a-thugs and the religious loonies.

  95. 95
    burnspbesq says:

    @Frank:

    Why does this person live here? She apparently hates our constitution where there is separation of church and state. We are a Christian country? Could she please tell us where in the constitution this is said?

    Don’t confuse the poor woman with facts and logic. That’s cheating.

  96. 96
    pacified says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    They also tend to be from the South.

  97. 97
    Paris says:

    I just finished Philip Roth’s The Plot Against America. It makes what is going on now seem very scary. Why can’t the media expose the neo nazi sympathizers who ginned up the mosque controversy? Where are the ‘public intellectuals’ denouncing the bigotry and hate?

  98. 98
    Nick says:

    @burnspbesq:

    If you can make out a prima facie case, with admissible evidence, that the current Pope has committed a crime, then I will join you in cheering his arrest.

    I can do that pretty easily actually…look at how he personally intervened in the sex abuse scandal in Ireland. So, yeah, if I were Attorney General of Ireland, i’d think an arrest warrant would suffice.

    I’d also be kicked out of office faster than an Illinois Governor.

  99. 99
    Alex S. says:

    @Nick:

    Good idea! I’m actually learning Chinese at the moment. It might useful and I love the writing.

  100. 100
    mslarry says:

    @Ben:
    as far as i know, indonesia is the largest muslim nation in the world. it’s quite modern, no stonings, etc. moreover, there are roughly 1.5 billion muslims in the world. they majority don’t behave like muslim fundamentalists which i’m assuming is what you meant to say you are suspicious of. my question is why is okay to pin the actions of a minority onto the majority?

    more importantly, the matter at hand isn’t what muslim fundamentalists do or did– it’s about the christian fundamentalist who found it perfectly fine to attempt to burn down a mosque. the muslim community that is currently under attack in TN has been there for over 30 years and prior to this crime they existed peacefully amongst the christian residents.

    if your point is that there are a small minority of muslims worldwide who behave badly, we can all agree on that. however, based on what happened in TN we can say the same thing about christians.

    but to me the main issue is that whether they practice sharia law in Iran or parts of Pakistan or Gambia for that matter — here in america, we have FREEDOM OF RELIGION– and we’re not supposed to burn down a place of worship simply because those who worship there do not practice the same religion that we do. it’s the same reason that while i despise fred phelps and his disgusting “church”, I’ll fight for his right to spread his religious venom within the confines of his first amendment rights. it’s also the reason that despite my being black, I’ll support the KKK’s right to peacefully assemble. Everyone has the SAME RIGHTS IN THIS COUNTRY, even those whom I personally despise.

    while i don’t agree with your blanket assessment about 1.5B people you don’t know and i’m hopeful your suspicions of the Islamic faith doesn’t manifest itself in violence towards muslims. however, i will ask you as a fellow american (assuming you are) when does it end? after we’ve burned their mosques, what’s next? burn the people that practice? burn their children? if we as americans don’t take a stand against this madness — what does that say about this country and the people who live here?

    i’ve commented on this blog sporadically in the last two years and often times, we can all agree to disagree, but in this case if we turn a blind eye and let fundamentalists – -all fudamentalists– dictate how we respond, many years from now when our grandchildren ask why we sat back and did nothing, what will we say? I for one intend to say I canvassed for politicians who believe in the constitution — even the parts I didn’t agree with — because in my mind that’s the right and american thing to do.

    sorry for the long post.

  101. 101
    Bnut says:

    @Joey Maloney in Paradise:

    Fox outrage-gasm in 3…2…1…

    Teabagger PrOn Guide

    softcroe-JAG reruns
    hardcroe-Glenn Beck
    BBW-Rush Limbaugh
    interracial-Michelle Malkin
    Mature-O’Reilly

  102. 102
    Sly says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    You could even trace it to a decade or so before Reagan, when the Six Day War got a lot of Christian fundamentalists hip to the notion that Armageddon was close at hand, and unwavering support for Israel (in the form of donations to extremist groups in Israel for the purpose of conquering the West Bank, bombing the Dome of the Rock, and building the “Third Temple”) was a way that they could guarantee its speedy arrival. Plenty of Cold War conservatives, and especially the Israeli right-wing, saw them as natural allies.

  103. 103
    Yutsano says:

    @Alex S.: Nihongo o chotto hanashiemasu. Doitsugo mo. But English will continue lingual dominance for awhile mostly because of computers.

  104. 104
    Corner Stone says:

    @Nick: English, Douchebag, X and Y?

  105. 105
    Cermet says:

    @burnspbesq: The animal called the antichrist … I mean poop … I mean pope – damn, I get those two confused (being over fifty and white) wrote a number of damming memo’s on protecting a court proven pedophile and as a direct result, that animal (the pedophile, not the current poop … I mean pope) did rape again and was further protected by said poop (but not pope … I mean poop at the time but a powerful upper level poop (that one counts.)) So, knowing the facts and allowing said criminal to rape again is ok in your book? If so, you are one sick MF’er.

  106. 106
    Josie says:

    You know, as a white person way past 50, I am not feeling the love on this blog lately, what with the stuff by Mistermix and various comments by other participants, and now you, John. I think that, when you make generalized remarks about older citizens, you should consider exempting those of us who follow your posts, comment with intelligence and historical perspective, and generally show the ability to think in logical terms. There are quite a few of us out here, and I think we deserve better treatment than to be lumped in with the cretins.

  107. 107
    demo woman says:

    According to CNN.com the NY cabbie is struggling to pay his bills and won’t be able to work for four months. The article has a link for donations also.

  108. 108
    BC says:

    @Ben: I’m all for criticism of Islam same as criticism for all other religions. But I don’t think Islam should be singled out, because they are no more patriarchal than any of the other religions. Difference is that Christianity is practiced more often in secular, rather than religious, states so that the government doesn’t enforce Christianity’s strictures. But if these same people had the power to make Christianity the state religion and use the power of the state to enforce Christianity’s ideas of sexual purity, etc., they would. In fact, they did at the time they had the power. As a woman, I would not like to have, say, James Dobson’s ideas of what my proper role is to be enforced by the government. There are Ayatolla Khomeneis in the US that go by the name of Franklin Graham, Hagee, and others I don’t know of.

  109. 109
    Bnut says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Double, double toil and trouble, and english.

  110. 110

    People of color are gaining political power in this country from increasing voting power, and the well scrubbed white folk will not stand for that. Democracy or not. It is really that simple where we are at, and the dark place we are headed. This isn’t about Obama, it is about us white folk and our senses of entitlement and fear of losing that. All of the normal ideological struggles over government and private and regulation and not, are nothing but props for the coming reckoning this country will face and is facing now, of answering the question that has been moot till Obama’s election. Or, how much do we value democracy and it’s principles over personal and as a group, power and control of the republic. And a bad economy is putting it all on boil.

  111. 111
    Nick says:

    @Alex S.: Chinese is one of the four I’ve decided to learn…the others are Portuguese, German and Dutch.

    Already speak English, Italian, Spanish and French

  112. 112
    morzer says:

    @Alex S.:

    Mandarin? If so, what books or other resources are you using?

  113. 113
    Joey Maloney in Paradise says:

    Regarding that, the guy who slashed the cabbie doesn’t seem to fit the Teabagger profile. He’s young, politically liberal in his past affiliations, spent time in Afghanistan in some non-military role…seems like some serious mental health issues. This morning the wires reported that he’s been moved from Rikers Island to Bellevue psych ward.

  114. 114
    Svensker says:

    @MattF:

    So. Don’t generalize, we of the formerly-cute generations aren’t all stupid.

    LOL.

    Hell, I was Repub until I was 50. Then I came to my senses. Don’t generalize, John.

  115. 115
    Tonal Crow says:

    It’s August, when Republicans are at their craziest. It’s a good time to take a vacation far away.

  116. 116
    burnspbesq says:

    @Cermet:

    So, knowing the facts and allowing said criminal to rape again is ok in your book?

    Show me where I said that. Take all the time you need.

  117. 117
    stuckinred says:

    Replay on McCann’s walkoff homer confirmed!!!!!!

  118. 118
    The humanity says:

    Pointing the peasants at each other is tried-and-true effective, so the criminal aristocracy (but I repeat myself) consistently relies upon it. This includes, as a handy feature, making the “little people” bear the brunt of the casualties.

    The technology changes, but the play book remains the same.

  119. 119
    morzer says:

    @Svensker:

    What brought you to your senses, and how did it happen?

  120. 120
    The humanity says:

    @Paris:

    Why can’t the media expose the neo nazi sympathizers who ginned up the mosque controversy?

    Same employers..

  121. 121
    stuckinred says:

    @Svensker: This is a pretty stupid argument, no? I mean we get people on here bitching about “old people” all the time. Fuck em and the horse they rode in on.

  122. 122
    stuckinred says:

    @Svensker: You were a republican in those crazy days on the Ave in Seattle???? damn

  123. 123
    chaseyourtail says:

    @burnspbesq: Oh, for fuck sake, are you just looking to start shit?

    I was talking about people who were not taught to think critically…People like that. People like that tend to be cement heads…people who can’t think critically…got it now?

  124. 124

    http://icmtn.org/cgi-bin/links.....submission

    This is the link for sending an email message to the Islamic community in Murffreesboro, Tennessee.

    I sent them a message telling them how sorry I was for the crime committed and assuring them that they have a right to be here.

    I told them where I live. It might be nice for them to get messages from all over.

  125. 125
    ItAintEazy says:

    Okay, not all white people over fifty has lost their shit.

    Maybe about half of them.

  126. 126
    Violet says:

    John Cole, while you’re wrong that every white person over fifty has completely lost their shit, I recognize it as hyperbole and a bit of venting. It’s your blog and if you want to vent, go right ahead.

  127. 127
    burnspbesq says:

    @Nick:

    So, yeah, if I were Attorney General of Ireland, i’d think an arrest warrant would suffice. I’d also be kicked out of office faster than an Illinois Governor.

    Don’t be so sure about that. Irish Catholics are pretty pissed off at the Vatican these days. So are most American Catholics. Even my mom is appalled, and if the heirarchy loses people like my mom, it is in very serious trouble.

  128. 128
    Nick says:

    @General Stuck:

    it is about us white folk and our senses of entitlement and fear of losing that.

    Yesterday I was watching the BBC miniseries “The Virgin Queen” starring Anne Marie Duff as Queen Elizabeth I and Val Kilmer’s saucy ex-wife as Bloody Mary…in the story, one of Queen Mary’s top advisers takes Elizabeth to the tower and interrogates her and threatens her with death while she hears others being tortured nearby. When Elizabeth finally does become Queen, she runs out of the room upon hearing and sees her interrogator, kneeling and trembling. He says to hear “I hope you know everything I did I did out of duty”

    In his eyes, you could see the feeling of “I know you’re probably going to cut my head off and put it on a pike after what I did to you, and I know I deserve it, but please don’t hurt me”

    That’s where white people are. They’re not just afraid of minorities in power, they’re afraid of minorities seeking revenge on them.

    In the end, Queen Elizabeth did not have him executed, just dismissed him from court.

  129. 129
    leftist says:

    Environmentalists have been drawing decade and longer sentences for vandalizing property.

    I’m quite sure when they catch the people who destroyed the construction equipment, not to protest development but to terrorize a whole community will get a similar sentence.

    Ah, who am I kidding. They’ll all have shows on Fox in under 5 years.

  130. 130
    morzer says:

    @leftist:

    Five years? More like next week!

  131. 131
    Lisa in Bama says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    Interestingly, we moderate, relatively sane WP>50 are never asked to disavow the actions of insane WP>50. We object, “but I’M not like that!” and expect a retraction. “They are just a minority, they don’t represent REAL WP>50!” Welcome to the everyday world of the American Muslim or scapegoat du jour.

  132. 132
    leftist says:

    FWIW, my parents, who are well over 50, seem to have gotten used to the idea that the country isn’t going to be totally controlled by white people any more.

    And I have a 29 and a 26 year old coworker who are both full fledged Glenn Beck fans.

  133. 133
    Svensker says:

    @morzer:

    What brought you to your senses, and how did it happen?

    The build-up to Iraq. I knew everything the government was saying was a total lie and I could feel that they were just covering themselves so they could go to war. I didn’t understand WHY they wanted it so much, but I could see it was going to happen no matter what. When I saw what absolute fucks and liars they were in that instance the scales fell from my eyes.

    Guantanamo and the Patriot Act solidified it for me, though. How could people who were always screaming about the Constitution and Freedom possibly go along with such things. When I saw them not only go along with but actually champion torture and spying… That was it for me.

    In my defense, however, I never liked El Rushbo. I always thought he was a slimy toad of middling intelligence.

  134. 134
    Mnemosyne says:

    @Ben:

    Guess what, Ben: if your first reaction upon hearing about an act of criminal arson is, “Well, but some people in other countries who share the same religion do assholish things, so of course people are burning their mosques in the US,” that makes you an asshole bigot who believes in collectively punishing large groups of people for the actions of the few.

    Let me guess — you thought Abu Ghraib was no big deal because every Iraqi should be punished for 9/11 since they’re Muslims just like the hijackers.

  135. 135
    Unintentionally Pregnant says:

    Oh John…hon….I’ve got some left over pain meds from dental work a few months ago. Maybe that would help? What a great set of comments folks. Great reading!

  136. 136
    Unintentionally Pregnant says:

    Oh John…hon….I’ve got some left over pain meds from dental work a few months ago. Maybe that would help? What a great set of comments folks. Great reading!

  137. 137
    Svensker says:

    @stuckinred:

    You were a republican in those crazy days on the Ave in Seattle???? damn

    Nah, at that point kind of an anarchist with libertarian leanings. Thought there should be no war, no drug laws and no taxes. :) I’ve changed my mind about the taxes.

  138. 138
    Mnemosyne says:

    @BC:

    Don’t forget, it was American Christians who helped majority-Christian Uganda write their “death penalty for gays” law this year.

    I don’t see any point in bitching about the evils of the Taliban when we have Christians vocally supporting the death penalty for gay people.

  139. 139
    Yutsano says:

    @Svensker: Heh. And I’m two weeks away from being a tax agent right on that block. I’m just gonna sit back and enjoy the irony.

    Oh and my brother (bless his heart) thinks my income taxes are about to go way up just from moving to the big city. This is giving me mad giggles, as neither Washington nor the City of Seattle have an income tax.

  140. 140
    Michael says:

    @Ben:

    Nor do I think it’s “phobic” to hate Islam. There is a reason why those countries are so backward with stoning adulterers, homosexuals, cutting off the noses of people along with other limbs. Hell, we can’t even draw a picture of Mohammad and show it in public without having the threat of violence put upon us. Christopher Hitchens, Salman Rushdie, and Ayaan Hirsi Ali all have to go around with a security detail just because of their criticisms of Islam in the United States. I am very suspecious of Islam as I am with all religions, but Islam more so.

    Fuck you, chickenshit.

  141. 141
    CalD says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    Well, yeah. But I think I was actually about 25 when I lost it. And lost shit or found, who the hell is afraid of Al Sharpton? Al Sharpton? Seriously? The fat guy with the one-liners? Where’d that come from?

  142. 142
    morzer says:

    @Svensker:

    Following up a little – what were your sources of news? How did you know the then government were lying? I am genuinely curious to understand more about your journey.

  143. 143
    Olive Oyl says:

    @PurpleGirl:
    That was 1994 and I voted for Sharpton in that NY Senate primary also. That was Moynihan’s seat and he was running for re-election and I knew that Pat would win in a landslide and I wanted him to win. But my primary vote for Sharpton was a way to indicate that Sharpton spoke about important issues of social justice that should be addressed.

  144. 144
    bemused says:

    @Nick:
    If each state went it’s own way, I don’t think it would take long for a lot of people living in extremely conservative states including rightwingers would be trying like heck to move to the progressive states.

  145. 145
    Kryptik says:

    I’ve been down at the site on Park51 for the last three days around the afternoon. Things seem thankfully sedate and what haters that have come by, we’ve at least been able to open dialogue with them, and actually getting passers on the street to engage (usually coming from the pro- side).

    The assumption on the ground though is that Beck’s little sideshow and the upcoming anniversary have something to do with it though. Probably just recharging and reloading to explode in a giant m-80 barrel of hate some the weekend after next.

  146. 146
    leftist says:

    Two points:

    1.) It’s not the over 50s who are creating the Islamophobia. It’s the decade long occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq. A lot of Americans are unwilling to question the military, so they assume that if “we’re at war” there must be a reason for it.

    2.) The most disturbing thing about this isn’t the arson. It’s the casual remarks by people saying things like “oh a Mosque burned down. Well I don’t approve of Islam.” Needless to say, if a Catholic church burned down in response to an IRA bombing, not very many people would say “oh they’re just Catholics. They treat their women like shit”.

  147. 147

    @demkat620:
    Grandma needs a birth certificate with a raised seal:

    Actually, Granny needs a certified registration of birth. And she will have to send off and get one. Good luck on getting one with the fancy, raised seal.

    When she gets a birth certificate, demand to see it and threaten to have her deported if she can’t come up with one like she expected Obama to produce.

    Yeah, I know you aren’t going to deport your beloved grandmother. But this is a lesson in tolerance that she needs to learn. And if she learns it in this lifetime, she needs to get busy and learn it fairly soon.

    If you love her, don’t let her off the hook.

  148. 148
    CalD says:

    “I had a discussion with someone I’ve known a long time about the Glenn Beck nonsense yesterday…”

    If I was going to try and pinpoint the source of your problem…

  149. 149
    Cat Lady says:

    I’m over 50 but completely understand what John’s talking about. The boomers really need to get over themselves and their entitlement – both of race and status. I’ve been appalled for a few years now how the kids I knew in the 70s have turned out to be a bunch of Fuck You I Got Mine assholes.

    This is how I see it going down between now and the 2012 election – the GOP will do well in November, maybe even flip both houses, but it will be a dead cat bounce. This will be the GOP’s last electoral success. They’ll try to impeach, because that’s what they know how to do, and coupled with the ugliness that will ensue and the teabagging rodeo that will be the GOP primaries, every sane person will be forced to line up with Obama. I think ultimately, we’ll step back from the abyss.

  150. 150
    stuckinred says:

    @Svensker: whew!

  151. 151
    someguy says:

    Wow. I saw the headline on this post and I thought it was about the Beck rally yesterday, because I had that exact same thought.

    Who knew it was about a mosque burning. Could just as easily have been about a taxi driver stabbing…

  152. 152
    Michael says:

    @leftist:

    And I have a 29 and a 26 year old coworker who are both full fledged Glenn Beck fans

    On the positive side, they probably don’t get laid much.

  153. 153
    leftist says:

    @Michael:

    On the positive side, they probably don’t get laid much.

    Well, they’re both women and both have steady boyfriends.

    Both of them seem to be caught up in the whole biker culture. That’s probably the source of it.

  154. 154
    Olive Oyl says:

    Now that you mention that McCain had a birthday this weekend, I’m reminded of the picture of Dubya giving him a birthday cake and yucking it up while New Orleans was drowning.

  155. 155
    jwb says:

    @leftist: “And I have a 29 and a 26 year old coworker who are both full fledged Glenn Beck fans.”

    These are the people to watch. If Glenn Beck and other wingnuts start to make inroads with the twentysomething crowd that’s when we’ll have a very serious problem on our hands.

  156. 156
    Ruckus says:

    I swear to God every white person over the age of fifty has just completely lost their shit.

    I see what you did there.

  157. 157

    @Svensker:

    Nah, at that point kind of an anarchist

    Wow!, a Quaker Anarchist. That sounds fairly hot.

  158. 158
    jwb says:

    @Cat Lady: I can see this scenario playing out. I can also see a scenario where we go hurtling into the abyss. I also see a scenario ( the most likely) where the Dems take moderate but not catastrophic losses in November and we muddle through till 2012, when we get to play this fun game again. I even see a (very unlikely) scenario where I wake up from this nightmare, the Dems gain seats in November, and the Gooper vampire is staked and killed for another generation.

  159. 159
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @jwb:

    I even see a (very unlikely) scenario where I wake up from this nightmare, the Dems gain seats in November, and the Gooper vampire is staked and killed for another generation.

    Please describe. Please.

  160. 160
    Cain says:

    @BC:

    @Ben: I’m all for criticism of Islam same as criticism for all other religions. But I don’t think Islam should be singled out, because they are no more patriarchal than any of the other religions. Difference is that Christianity is practiced more often in secular, rather than religious, states so that the government doesn’t enforce Christianity’s strictures. But if these same people had the power to make Christianity the state religion and use the power of the state to enforce Christianity’s ideas of sexual purity, etc., they would. In fact, they did at the

    You might want to watch Uganda to see a christian government in action. The guy who is introducing the bill where gays could be killed for being “gay” is an attempt to create a christian govt. Helped by hard right wing christian ministers in the U.S. I was listening to the guy who wrote the article on NPR.

    Freaking scary. Minorities in those countries need to understand that as soon as one minority is targeted and you’re actually executing them it will soon spread to other minorities. Even worse, it’ll be like the salem witch trial, some fool who hates your guts accuses you of being gay. This is what happens when you don’t separate the state from religion. Once they are done with the gays, it’ll be non-christians next or maybe non-blacks. Who knows.

    cain

  161. 161
    MikeJ says:

    @Cain:

    You might want to watch Uganda to see a christian government in action. The guy who is introducing the bill where gays could be killed for being “gay” is an attempt to create a christian govt.

    Even if you’re straight, you can be killed for failing to rat out any known gay people.

  162. 162
    leftist says:

    If Glenn Beck and other wingnuts start to make inroads with the twentysomething crowd that’s when we’ll have a very serious problem on our hands.

    There’s a certain subculture (talk radio, stand up comedy) that seems to draw in a certain type of working class 20 something.

    It’s really not too different from what I saw in the 1980s with Andrew Dice Clay and Howard Stern. “Rebellion” = “being right wing”.

    The twentysomethings who went for Obama seem more like an upper middle class crowd, the type who were too wussy to protest the war in Iraq and went for the “Save Darfur” movement instead.

    There’s no way Obama will ever attract the working class 20 something crowd, especially now. But I can see a genuine left wing populist doing it.

  163. 163
    quaint irene says:

    Both of them seem to be caught up in the whole biker culture. That’s probably the source of it.

    Glenn Beck and ‘biker culture?’ I’m………..not quite getting the connection.

  164. 164
    PB says:

    @FoxinSocks:

    http://icmtn.org/cgi-bin/links......shtml;d=1

    It’s a web based email system. I just sent ’em one as well.

  165. 165
    Bernard says:

    so after all these years of letting the Republican lies be unchallenged, we are now in the “who could have known” excuse. these people are not stupid never have been and now they own the turf. because everyone said, “oh they aren’t so bad yet!!.

    and now where are we?

    Reagan’s Voodoo economics and Gentler, Kinder America BS
    same lies as today, different words then. Faith based bs coming from those Republicans out to save America. Save America for themselves. lol. Save America so they can loot it. the Way Any Randians do. lol

    too late now people. the thieves are running the show now.

  166. 166
    Olive Oyl says:

    Florida, with its senate and governor elections, is the state to watch this Nov to get a gauge as to where this country is headed. I’ve never voted republican but now I’m looking at Crist as the Great Orange Hope that will deliver us from the current insanity.

  167. 167
    Olive Oyl says:

    Florida, with its senate and governor elections, is the state to watch this Nov to get a gauge as to where this country is headed. I’ve never voted republican but now I’m looking at Crist as the Great Orange Hope that will deliver us from the current insanity.

  168. 168
    leftist says:

    Glenn Beck and ‘biker culture?’ I’m………..not quite getting the connection.

    The biker culture is very tied in with the extreme right.

    Google “Rolling Thunder”.

    Half the people at the anti-Muslim rally last week in NYC were bikers from out of state.

    Both these women watch “Sons of Anarchy” and my guess would be that it’s a sort of gateway drug to Beckism.

  169. 169
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @quaint irene: Nativist jingoism, get the government out of my life (guns and helmet laws), the illusion of self-reliance, etc. a less common variant on “What’s the matter with Kansas” or miners voting for those who would deregulate mines, or my cousins who make less than 100K/yr but are absolutely convinced that their taxes have gone up.

  170. 170
    Alex S. says:

    @Yutsano:

    I haven’t been learning it for a long time yet, but that sounds Japanese to me? And yes, I agree that English will continue to dominate. It was the most important language during the time of globalization, so it’s the lingua franca of the world now. And India uses it as well.

    @Nick:

    I tried Portuguese as well, for a few months. It’s actually my favorite language but I got too busy at the time and stopped it. But I think (or at least I hope) I got a feeling how to “bend” a spanish sentence into Portuguese.

    @morzer:

    Mandarin yes. It’s a university course and we haven’t gotten really far yet. We used whatever our chinese teacher provided us with, small excerpts of several books. It’s still in the introductory stage I guess.

  171. 171
    PTirebiter says:

    It’s hard to express just how ugly this kind of thing is. I hate to think about the conversations that all the Muslim American parents are going to have to have with their kids. As an over fifty white guy, I’d hoped I’d seen the last of this kind of raw hate and stupidity. It makes me want to cry.

  172. 172
    Amanda in the South Bay says:

    @Sly:

    An Egyptian gentleman in my neighborhood (who is a Coptic Christian) faced a fair bit of harassment a few years ago by both religious and race bigots because they made the assumptions that funny accent + brownish skin = Muslim, and that Muslim = Terrorist. So the recent story about the two Egyptian Coptics who were harassed near Park 51 for “looking Muslimish” when they were actually there to join the protest against the site didn’t surprise me at all.

    That’s obviously sad and absurd, considering the persecution that the Copts and the other Eastern Christians have suffered over the centuries in the Middle East, but let me just nit pick a little.

    Stastistically, the Christians in the ME are a very small minority, even using certain overinflated numbers (like the numbers the Coptic Orthodox Church uses) the average resident of a predominately Arab country is overwhelmingly likely to be a (nominal, perhaps) Muslim.

    A century ago, in the multi-ethnic melting pot that was the Ottoman Empire, things were different, but most ME countries are pretty homogeneous with regards to religion. Even the Lebanon (traditionally a bastion of Christianity) has seen a dramatic exodus of Maronites.

    Bigoted Teatards shouldn’t be making assumptions, but don’t be under any illusions that there are large numbers of Christians in the Middle East.

  173. 173
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    On the Upside, No One Was Lynched

    And when someone finally is how will our intrepid media portray it?

  174. 174
    Nick says:

    \@Bruce (formerly Steve S.):

    And when someone finally is how will our intrepid media portray it?

    9/11 had a lasting effect on our national psyche and it’s too bad this had to happen, but you know, sensitivity.

  175. 175
    steveinillinois says:

    I had a discussion with someone I’ve known a long time about the Glenn Beck nonsense yesterday, and all that person could say was “If the Democrats want my vote, they need to distance themselves from Al Sharpton.”

    It always amuses me when someone uses this “my vote” phrasing, in which they’re wielding their withheld vote like some kind of lightsaber.

    I heard a lot of this during the 2008 campaign, i.e., “Obama won’t get MY vote unless …” followed by some peculiar condition that they knew perfectly well wouldn’t be met. I know a lot of these people wouldn’t have voted for a black guy in a million years, but couldn’t say that, so they tied it to some phony-baloney deal breaker issue.

  176. 176
    Shalimar says:

    @Cat Lady: I think this is the natural progression politics would take if not for the economy. If unemployment in particular is still high in 2 years, Obama is in serious trouble regardless of how insane Republicans act between now and then. Republicans should be circling the toilet as a party, but the tremendous hole they put us in as a country during the Bush years could very well save them from oblivion for awhile longer. Eventually though they will go too far for most Americans because pushing to the extreme is what the party of Limbaugh and Beck does.

  177. 177
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.): And when someone finally is how will our intrepid media portray it?

    “with the uncivil dialogue from the left and the right, something like this was sadly inevitable, Wolf. I spoke to Larry Sabato of the effect this tragic event may have in November….”

  178. 178
    Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army says:

    WTF?

    In the comments to a post about a mosque construction site being hit by arson, the hot topics are:

    1. Very polite explanations to bigot Ben that using an attack on a minority group as a chance to muse about why they had it coming is, y’know, bigoted. Then, when bigot Ben whines that it’s so unfair that he’s called a racist, he gets… more polite explanation. This, from the group of jackals who will rip your throat out with their teeth if you dare to say something nice about Matt Taibbi.

    Well, I’ll say it then: Ben, you are a worthless bigot. Go fuck yourself. This mosque burned because of attitudes like yours.

    2. Endless whining from people over 50 that Cole’s flippant quip about people over 50 being crazy wasn’t accompanied by a disclaimer stating that not everyone over 50 was literally crazy, and WAAAAH that’s so mean.

    OK, you’re over 50 and you’re not crazy. Do you want a fucking cookie for your efforts? The majority of our nations political problems stem from the white over-fifty demographic’s refusal to face reality and their willingness to let bigotry and hatred guide their votes. Oh, and the fact that they vote more regularly than other demographics.

    What’s that, you’re over fifty and you don’t vote? I’m soooooo sorry! I’ll never generalize again!

    PROTIP: If the shoe doesn’t fit, quit trying to cram it on your foot anyway just so you can complain about how badly it fits. For Eris’ sake, isn’t Cole over 50 too, or is he just cranky beyond his years?

    And before you complain that prejudice against people over 50 is just as bad as prejudice against Muslims, well, get back to me when opening a new senior center draws nationwide protests and people are regularly burning down nursing homes.

    But yeah, burning mosque. yaaawn

  179. 179
  180. 180
    Cat Lady says:

    @Shalimar:

    Well, if the GOP takes back both houses it will get very extreme, very quickly. I like to think there are more sane people who will recoil in time for 2012 than there are insane people in this country, but maybe the Mayans were on to something. Wheeee!

  181. 181
    Amir_Khalid says:

    Somewhat (but not entirely) off-topic:

    In about two weeks, Muslims the world over celebrate Eid Al-Fitri. Marking as it does the successful completion of Ramadan, it is one of the major holidays on the Muslim calendar. This year, it happens to fall on or about September 11.

    I wonder what accusations of Muslim “insensitivity” towards American feelings will be aired then.

  182. 182
    Seebach says:

    @Amir_Khalid: It doesn’t happen to involve groups of Muslims happy and celebrating in public does it? May God have mercy on their souls.

  183. 183
    The humanity says:

    @Cain:

    You might want to watch Uganda to see a christian government in action

    We would be wise to keep in mind that there is no shortage of people who think it would be just dandy to roll back The Enlightment and get back to the heady days of The Inquisition.

  184. 184
    Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army says:

    @General Stuck: That’s the kind of wit and insight we’ve come to love expect from you. Truly a treasure, you are.

  185. 185
    Amir_Khalid says:

    @Seebach: It involves precisely that, and the media coverage will include pictures from all over the planet. I’m kind of worried too.

  186. 186
    GregB says:

    Until President Obama distances himself from the man who slashed the McCain workers face with a backwards B I’m not voting for the Democrats.

  187. 187
    jake the snake says:

    @Hal:

    Even in the days of the civil rights movement, when blacks had very little power, whites rallied for fear that if blacks could obtain any type of power in society, they would turn around and do to whites exactly what had been done to them

    I think that this is a critical point in the fear of African-Americans getting power. This is why such a big deal was made of Gates-gate. New Black Panther Party and etc.

  188. 188
    Sly says:

    @Amanda in the South Bay:

    I wasn’t making any assumptions about Coptic populations in the Middle East, just relating an anecdote on how conflating race/ethnicity with religion is not new. It could just as easily been about a Pakistani Hindu, an Indian Sikh, or a Lebanese Maronite.

  189. 189
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    White.

    Over 50.

    Shit intact.

    Apology forthcoming?

  190. 190
    Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: I’m sorry that you eat plenty of fiber?

  191. 191
    shortstop says:

    Apparently people on the right think about Al Sharpton quite a bit more than we people in, you know, the Democratic Party do. I was unaware of this until the past week when the dude came up in two conversations in which he distinctly had no relevance. As far as I know he’s doing nothing of newsworthy interest at the moment, so WTF?

    The other day some high-school friend on FB had an endless discussion going on his wall about the NYC community center and somebody went off on a rather hysterical tear about Sharpton. She wasn’t talking about his position on the center, if he even has one, so the only thing I can think of that might be connecting the two issues in her mind was — um, that the people being discussed piss her off and have more melanin than she does? Piss her off because they have more melanin than she does?

    Overheard a similar discussion in the grocery store, too. Do Fox watchers get a daily dose of the Dangers of Al Sharpton or something?

  192. 192
    Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army says:

    @shortstop: Whining about Sharpton is just a way of complaining about those n- while maintaining enough deniability to also cry and moan if someone calls you racist. They don’t hate black people, you see, just those kinds of black people.

  193. 193
    shortstop says:

    @Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army: Yes, I understand exactly why they do it. I also know their tiny little pea brains don’t come up with the names of The Wrong Kinds of Negroes on their own. Someone’s pushing this shit and I find it hilarious that Sharpton, of all people, has been made out to be a figure of dangerously overblown Democratic authority.

  194. 194
    WaterGirl says:

    @demkat620: I know it’s not right, but you made me laugh. You’re a great storyteller.

  195. 195
    Bill Murray says:

    @Hal:

    Even in the days of the civil rights movement, when blacks had very little power, whites rallied for fear that if blacks could obtain any type of power in society, they would turn around and do to whites exactly what had been done to them. Jackson and Sharpton are ultra-convenient boogeymen to scare the average older white middle class.

    It goes back much further than that — This was one of the reasons it became illegal to teach slaves to read and write after the Nat Turner rebellion

  196. 196
    Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army says:

    @shortstop: Well, Farrakhan is hard to spell, and they’re already saying Obama is a time-traveling commienazi muslamoterrist. They can’t say anything about Bill Cosby, Larry Elder, or Michael Steele, so it’s Sharpton by default. He’s still, like, doing stuff, right?

    I think it comes down to these folks not really knowing of many actual black folks, so they just go with the famous one who best fits their deranged ideas about bug-eyed white wimmin ravishing welfare parasites.

  197. 197
    Chad N Freude says:

    @Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army:

    OK, you’re over 50 and you’re not crazy. Do you want a fucking cookie for your efforts?

    A cookie would be nice, but I’ll settle for having fun at John’s expense.

  198. 198
    Chad N Freude says:

    INFLAMMATORY OBSERVATION ALERT!

    I believe that Al Sharpton is a self-aggrandizing narcissist who has himself exhibited what could be seen as anti-white racism in the Tawana Brawley case. I may agree with his politics, but the content of his character (pace Dr. King) not so much.

    So now let’s take a vote: All those who consider me a racist because of this, Ready, Set, Post!

  199. 199
    bago says:

    To all y’all getting offended a out being lumped in with old white people, I present to you a cross section of the beck-tards.
    http://img.wonkette.com/wp-con.....-large.jpg
    Notice how it’s all old white people.
    That’s the problem.

  200. 200
    bago says:

    @Nick: 9/11 had a permanent effect on pussies. I’m going to say it. When you work in a skyscraper hundreds of feet above the ground there is risk. You accept it. When you get into a metal tube going hundreds of miles an hour thousands of feet in the air there is risk. You accept it.

    I’m fairly sure that everyone who has played a flight simulator has crashed into a skyscraper.

    It’s not like we didn’t see this coming. The single most effective security measure we put into place was putting a lock on the cabin door. 200 bucks, tops. The billions of dollars and effort spent demonizing brown people just feeds Osama bin laden’s plans to have an epic religious war. Haters hating is what Osama wants. Way to help out, dumbass motherfuckers.

  201. 201
    shortstop says:

    @Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army:

    I think it comes down to these folks not really knowing of many actual black folks, so they just go with the famous one who best fits their deranged ideas about bug-eyed white wimmin ravishing welfare parasites.

    Yeah, that’s definitely a big part of it, and another part’s the fact that these folks get stuck in their outrage grooves for 20 or 30 or 40 years — people on the right are still complaining about Piss Christ and spotted owls, for cryin’ out loud. What is their fear of a fictional army of intimidating Black Panthers but an inability to get past the same terrors they had in the 1960s? The audience for this crap tends to be older and the media plays to that (if anyone had told me three years ago that “communist” would ever again be used as anything but a fun retro fake insult…).

    Still, everyone likes a nice change of pace every now and then, so luckily new black faces like Gates’s appear to join the ranks of Bad Negroes.

  202. 202

    “FOX news and the race-baiters have us all by the balls.”

    That’s because the Democrats instantly surrender to evil, stupid narratives provided by the right wing, supposedly because the current political climate requires it. But the current political climate has been caused by previous instant Democrat surrenders to evil, stupid narratives provided by the right wing.

    It takes two to tango.

  203. 203
    burnspbesq says:

    @Gen. Jrod and his Howling Army:

    OK, you’re over 50 and you’re not crazy. Do you want a fucking cookie for your efforts?

    No. In fact I will swear off cookies forever if that’s what it takes for you to go away and never come back.

  204. 204
    Justin says:

    And now there’s shots fired at members of the congregation who were inspecting the damage:

    http://www.tennessean.com/arti.....vestigated

    It’s like they’re jealous of all the attention New York is getting.

  205. 205
    Smedley says:

    @Violet:
    John generalizes about the over 50 crowd and it’s OK

    Ben generalizes about Islam and gets the shit beat out of him.

    BS across the board!

  206. 206
    morzer says:

    @Smedley:

    Ben hates Islam, and said so explicitly. Cole hasn’t expressed hatred of the venerable elders on here.

    You observe the difference, yes, yes?

  207. 207
    James Probis says:

    I love how a bunch of bigots literally firebomb a place of worship and what people are complaining about is that Cole made a joke about the fact that the teabagger crowd is made up of old white people. Because that’s the horrible thing here.

  208. 208
    Jrod the Cookie Thief says:

    @burnspbesq: I’d never ask anyone to give up cookies.

  209. 209
    Nick says:

    @Martin Gifford:

    But the current political climate has been caused by previous instant Democrat surrenders to evil, stupid narratives provided by the right wing.

    Tell that to President Obama (re: mosquegate)

    No, the political climate is caused by a right wing media. The Democrats don’t get to fight it because they have no army to do so with.

  210. 210
    Joyful says:

    Purple Girl at 11, I saw that debate on C-SPAN. Somebody else well known and very respectable was in there, too, bickering and sniping. And it’s true, Sharpton tried to be a peacemaker among them, and he was definitely the only grown-up. Were I a New Yorker, I’d have voted for him, too.

  211. 211
    Seeley says:

    @Svensker:

    Me too! Actually, my scales started coming off a bit sooner — on 9/11 when I saw how Bush handled it.

    To quote Charles Barkley, “I was a Republican until they lost their minds.”

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