And I don’t care if the money’s no good

Reader M found these in a local newsweekly in Brunswick, ME, which Civil War buffs will remember was the so-called “northern capital of the Confederacy”.

131 replies
  1. 1
    licensed to kill time says:

    You take what you need and you leave the rest…

  2. 2
    Scott says:

    Wh-what the heck is that supposed to be anyway?!

  3. 3
    Liberal Librarian says:

    Ok, what I don’t get is the Star of David. Does that indicate a belief that they’re the real Children of Israel? Or is it just a complete visual non sequitur?

  4. 4
    MoeLarryAndJesus says:

    The problem with the night they drove old Dixie down is that they didn’t drive it down far enough.

  5. 5

    wtf.jpg just about sums it up, doesn’t it?

  6. 6
    Anoniminous says:

    “where have you gone Uncle Billy?
    Our nation turns its lonely eyes to you.
    What’s that you say Mrs. Robinson
    Uncle Billy has left and gone away?
    Coo, coo, kuo; coo, coo, kuo.”

  7. 7
    Citizen_X says:

    Oh, of course the Stars of David. Because there’s nothing that says “Jews welcome here” like a confederate flag.

  8. 8
    El Cid says:

    Another great part of the 14th Amendment which I’m sure the modern neo-Confederate Republicans hate:

    4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

  9. 9
    superking says:

    umm, what?

  10. 10
    RSA says:

    I like the typography and colors, which seem to be inspired by board games and convenience store signs.

  11. 11
    HumboldtBlue says:

    I do believe Cee-Lo has the song that wraps up my feelings entirely when it comes to all things Confederate.

  12. 12
    gnomedad says:

    That’s a new look for Jesus with the haircut and suit.

  13. 13
    catclub says:

    @El Cid:
    Repeal of the 14th means scary “Reparations”,
    just not the ones Limbaugh seems to go on about.

    I think that paragraph is the real motivation for repeal of the 14th.

  14. 14
    WereBear says:

    Let me guess; confederates leave them on tables in lieu of tips.

  15. 15
    catclub says:

    All those Civil war Generals with beards look alike.

    Is that Grant? That would be funny.

  16. 16
    beltane says:

    @Citizen_X: There’s also nothing that says “Jews welcome here” like “You must be born again”. Zionist antisemitism is one of those weird paradoxes that make America great (or not).

  17. 17
    Seebach says:

    I don’t understand. Are those satirical, or an attempt at the real thing? Poe’s law, and all…

  18. 18
    Anoniminous says:

    @catclub:

    That is a picture of Stonewall Jackson, whose mental stability can be gauged by his practice of going into battle with one hand held upward to, “balance the humors,” his knowledge of military technology by his ordering 1,000 pikes to ….

    Fight off Gustavus Adolphus?

  19. 19
    morzer says:

    @catclub:

    My guess would be that the image you are looking at is Stonewall Jackson, not Grant.

  20. 20
    Felonious Wench says:

    @beltane: Only thing I can think of is Jews for Jesus.

  21. 21
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    I have to echo several other commenters and say that I don’t quite get it. I think I understand the elements in isolation but throwing them all together in this fashion leaves me feeling, well, left behind.

  22. 22
    R. Porrofatto says:

    Brunswick, ME, which Civil War buffs will remember was the so-called “northern capital of the Confederacy

    Yes, it’s no wonder these are in a local Brunswick paper, where citizens annually hang Brunswick native Joshua Chamberlain in effigy for being on the wrong side.

  23. 23
    El Cid says:

    @catclub: Well, there’s the prior section (including section 2, but focusing on 3 here) directly attacking the ability of insurrectionist traitors to serve in the federal government.

    3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    Note that ‘insurrectionists’ need not be applicable merely to Confederates.

    Presumably the GOP is still angry about the discrimination by the liberal fedrul gubmit against the Confederate-American community.

  24. 24
    morzer says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Jackson was an odd duck in many ways, but hardly nuts. You can say he supported a bad cause, and I would agree with you wholeheartedly, but he was, unquestionably, a very effective soldier. He requisitioned pikes only because the Confederacy’s inadequate industrial sector wasn’t supplying enough guns.

    Quote:
    “Under divine blessing, we must rely on the bayonet when firearms cannot be furnished“.

    I know it’s much more fun to paint the Confederate armies as made up of and led by gibbering maniacs, but historical fact deserves some respect too.

  25. 25

    What… the… hell?

    So is this a new local militia group printing these? Some sovereign citizen person? A church that thinks there’s no better way to celebrate the gospel of Christ than by tying him to the legacy of a group of traitors that sparked a war over the systemic degradation of their fellow man, which resulted in the wanton slaughter of 600,000+ American citizens?

  26. 26
    Citizen_X says:

    @beltane: Doh. I completely missed that every Star of David is placed right next to a command saying, “Hey Jews: Gawd sez stop bein Jews an all.”

  27. 27
    Redshirt says:

    Oh hey now – Brunswick is sacred ground to this Redshirt. Chamberlain fans, represent!

  28. 28
    Jim, Foolish Literalist says:

    @Felonious Wench: Or Jews for Jeff Davis? Which admittedly doesn’t scan as well.
    @R. Porrofatto:

    citizens annually hang Brunswick native Joshua Chamberlain in effigy for being on the wrong side

    Jesus fuck! I always just assumed he was kind of a local hero.

  29. 29
    mr. whipple says:

    WTF is that?

  30. 30
    jibeaux says:

    You mean I just PRINT five hundred dollars? Do you think I could buy an entire person for that, or would it be more of a time-share type situation?

  31. 31
    morzer says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.):

    Stonewall Jackson was actually extremely religious, and known to be at the time of the Civil War, to the point of regretting that he had to fight on Sundays, and wore his religion on his sleeve much more than say Lee or Longstreet. He also died for the Lost Cause, unlike Lee and Longstreet who lived on and made some sort of peace with their conquerors. It’s not totally strange to find a soldier-martyr, which is how Jackson was seen, and still is by NeoConfederates, linked to this sort of nostalgic nonsense and a couple of selective Biblical quotes. I think the “You must be born again” applies both to the Confederacy, and the “new believer”, and to the spirit of Stonewall Jackson. As for the Star of David, I imagine that’s more modern neo-connery being added to the narrative.

    Personally, I wouldn’t have thought using Confederate dollars as your calling card was much of an advertisement for economic competence, when one considers how little they were worth.

  32. 32
    morzer says:

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist:

    I think he’s more of a heroine to Bowdoin, where he ended up teaching pretty much everything under the sun, and became the college president. They still have a museum to him there, based on the house where he lived across the road from the college.

  33. 33
    BenA says:

    The stupid here just hurts my head… I mean looking at those causes me physical pain.

  34. 34
    Xboxershorts says:

    @morzer:

    Indeed, for the first couple years of the war, the rebel armey actually managed to kick the north’s ass most all the time. Union military leaders were very much inferior in quality to their southern counterparts.

    It wasn’t until Gettysburgh where, in fact, General Meade gets VERY lucky and manages to secure quality high ground and beat back a very determined opponent, that the north actually get’s their footing and begins to make progress.

    If not for a couple of poor decisions at Gettysburgh, this country might have a very different look and feel to it….

  35. 35
    MattR says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.):

    I have to echo several other commenters and say that I don’t quite get it. I think I understand the elements in isolation but throwing them all together in this fashion leaves me feeling, well, left behind.

    I feel like Lisa Simpson after seeing the “Yahoo Serious Festival” signs before the family went to Australia.

    “I know those words, but that sign makes no sense”

  36. 36
    LanceThruster says:

    LOL!

    Glad I enlarged the image.

    I thought it said “Jew Hundred Dollars”

    That would kinda give the whole thing the opposite meaning.

    Instead they’re just reinforcing their Xian Zionism.

  37. 37
    Dave says:

    Two things (from someone who lives in Maine):

    1. The “northern capital” comment was tongue-in-cheek since Joshua Chamberlain was the hero of Gettysburg and Harriet Beecher Stowe wrote “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” while her husband was teaching at Bowdoin College.

    2. My guess is Teatards printed these. A couple of counties over the local GOP structure successfully hijacked the Maine GOP convention and rewrote the party platform into something just to the right of the John Birch Society.

  38. 38
    Bokonon says:

    Brunswick … the northern capital of the Confederacy? Eh? Who called it that?

    Seriously. In addition to Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain living there, Harriet Beecher Stowe also wrote “Uncle Tom’s Cabin” while living in Brunswick.

    All that aside, that “confederate” scrip is some serious wingnut material. Holy cow.

    The only thing I’ve ever seen that was worse were the color prints of Nathan Bedford Forrest, in full CSA general’s uniform, riding on his horse and looking pensive, with the caption “A Christian General.” I used to see those for sale at mainstream arts-and-crafts stores in Virginia during the 1990s. And they just about made me puke. They have now disappeared.

  39. 39
    Anoniminous says:

    @morzer:

    If you start bringing facts and reason into the discussion, I quit.

    :-D

    Yeah, you’re right.

  40. 40
  41. 41
    Comrade Darkness says:

    Let me guess . . . they thought, well, all banks involve Jews, therefore all “real” money must as well . . . ???

    As an aside, I inherited a little windows 7 netbook that I want to use for writing, but for the living life of me I can’t find the dictionary/thesaurus app. Anyone?? Took me half an hour to figure out where the widgets were, and there was nothing of the dictionary ilk built in there, that I could see.

  42. 42
    morzer says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    I suspect that the North would have won, even if Gettysburg had gone wrong. The South had far less in the way of industry, a badly battered economy, a president who was hampered both by his own prickly temperament and by some sharp limits imposed on his authority by the states’ righters. The North had guns, butter and Lincoln. When Gettysburg was fought, Grant was really getting into his stride, and the quality of the Union army had steadily improved, particularly in the cavalry. Lee’s defeat at Gettsyburg may have hastened the Northern victory a little, but I don’t think the South had much to hope for in the longterm, which is why they gambled so heavily on getting British recognition.

  43. 43
    Poopyman says:

    Was that done by the same people that write the Dr. Bronner’s labels?

  44. 44
    Punchy says:

    why is “Born Again” capitalized?

  45. 45
    Anoniminous says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    Meade got lucky because Buford recognized what had to be done and Buford’s cavalry and Reynold’s I Corp — including the incomparable Iron Brigade — got the hell knocked out of them on the first day.

  46. 46
    morzer says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Well, you know, it’s a dirty job, but someone had to do it, right?

    Mind you, you missed the best Stonewall Jackson quirk of all – he refused to eat pepper because he thought it weakened his left leg!

  47. 47
    morzer says:

    @Punchy:

    Because it refers to a status as one of the “born again”, as well as serving as the verb in the sentence?

    I suspect we aren’t the target audience for this curious piece of propaganda, so we are probably missing quite a few of the dog whistles in it. I tend to think this is somewhat to our credit as human beings.

  48. 48
    Punchy says:

    Also, McArdle just tweeted “I like the looks of that $6000 Confederate bank note”

  49. 49
    Poopyman says:

    @morzer:
    Not that I’m a big fan of Jackson, but I think his last words were kick-ass:”Let us cross over the river, and rest under the shade of the trees . . .”

    Yeah, he was delirious from an infection, but that just adds to the effect, IMO.

  50. 50
    soonergrunt says:

    @R. Porrofatto:

    Yes, it’s no wonder these are in a local Brunswick paper, where citizens annually hang Brunswick native Joshua Chamberlain in effigy for being on the wrong side.

    You’re shitting us, right? They do this, to this day?

  51. 51
    R-Jud says:

    @Punchy:

    why is “Born Again” capitalized?

    Why not?

  52. 52
    Citizen_X says:

    @Punchy: You typically capitalize trademarked commercial slogans: the “Pepsi Generation,” etc.

    What? You say Christianity(TM) isn’t a corporation? Are you sure?

  53. 53
    morzer says:

    @soonergrunt:

    I believe the town council put up a statue to JLC in 2003, so I rather think the hanging comment was a joke.

  54. 54
    morzer says:

    @Punchy:

    Bets on whether the next tweet refers to buying TNC and family, and still having $5000 Confederate dollars in change?

  55. 55
    quaint irene says:

    Maybe they’re hoping to sell it to the gullible on eBay.

  56. 56
    soonergrunt says:

    @Anoniminous: True, but none of that would’ve mattered if Chamberlain and his 20th Maine hadn’t held the left flank on Little Round Top the next day. Conversely, Chamberlain wouldn’t have had Little Round Top to hold if Buford and later Reynolds hadn’t seen what was what and determined to hold what they could for as long as possible.

  57. 57
    soonergrunt says:

    @morzer: ahh.
    Well, Poe’s law and all, you never know about wingnuts anymore.

  58. 58
    morzer says:

    @soonergrunt:

    Also too, JLC is good tourist bait. Compared to that, the Confederacy ain’t got nothing in Maine. No-one pays to see a sign saying: “Robert E Lee got nowhere near here!”

  59. 59
    Tax Analyst says:

    DougJ: But what if you really, really don’t like choppin’ wood?

  60. 60
    Anoniminous says:

    @morzer:

    I didn’t want to have people thinking I’d jumped the shark.

    :-)

    Here’s a nice scenario to contemplate:

    1. McClellan remains in command of the AoP.

    2. Longstreet (somehow) gets to be CinC of the Army of Northern Virginia.

    3. Halleck stays in command of the Western Theater.

    My guess is the Civil War would have lasted into the 1890s ‘cuz nobody would have done nothing.

    (LOL)

  61. 61
    Citizen Alan says:

    I swear I feel like I’m in a fucking George Romero movie. Like there’s some kind of contagious insanity that is gradually taking over the country and will only grow and grow until our entire civilization falls apart in some sort of Confederate-Zombie Apocalypse. The Crazies, Part Deux.

  62. 62
    JGabriel says:

    RSA:

    I like the typography and colors, which seem to be inspired by board games and convenience store signs.

    … and the cheap inks of old comic books and their ads for x-ray specs and sea monkeys.

    .

  63. 63
    Rosalita says:

    As I was thinking “WTF!?” I saw that you had named the graphic that same thing…

  64. 64
    Dead Ernest says:

    Then again, if one of the ‘true believers’ is spending their time making these, I’m happy. You Go Goy!

  65. 65
    Napoleon says:

    @R. Porrofatto:

    native Joshua Chamberlain

    Didn’t he end up being Governor of the state?

  66. 66
    morzer says:

    @Napoleon:

    Four one year terms, in fact.

  67. 67
  68. 68
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Forgive my less than concise language, however, it was Meade’s command at the time, which is why I submit that he “got lucky”. But yes, Meade had very little to do with the victory at Gettysburgh.

    Agrreed on most points Morzer. But the Confederate loss at Gettysburgh made obtaining British support a moot point, ensuring it would never happen.

    A win at Gettysburgh, however, might very well have brought the British in on the Confederate side, which would not have bode well for the Union.

  69. 69
    morzer says:

    Could this be part of a game of Wingnut Monopoly? You know, where you get to change the way the dice fall every time a poorer player takes his turn? You know the kind of thing: pass Go whenever you want to, collect 2 million from other players and build as many gated communities as you like.

  70. 70
    Anoniminous says:

    @soonergrunt:

    Agree wholeheartedly!!

    What I find most fascinating about Gettysburg is the combination of :

    1. strategic insight (Buford, Reynolds)
    2. dogged determination (Iron Brigade)
    3. tactical genius (Chamberlain)
    4. ignorance (Heth’s “militia”)
    5. tactical stupidity (‘Peach Orchard’)
    6. tactical insanity (Pickett’s Charge)

    all wrapped up in three days. It seems to me to be a complete course in What and What NOT – never, never, never – to do in a battle.

  71. 71
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    @morzer:

    Thanks, though I’m not sure that helped. It’s as if I took symbols from my political views, taste in music, and favorite sports teams and threw them all together on a poster, expecting that an organic idea would then be obvious. Maybe I’m just having trouble disengaging my higher brain functions today.

  72. 72
    Anoniminous says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    My comment was intended to be an expansion, not a criticism.

  73. 73
    Reader M says:

    @Citizen Alan:
    So very much this.

    There were three of these little slips just tucked between the pages of the Forecaster like Burger King coupons. If I hold on to them, then two years after the second Confederate revolution, I’ll be able to buy me a couple of shotgun shells and maybe some crackers.

    If nobody eats my brain first.

  74. 74
    morzer says:

    @Anoniminous:

    By the standards of the day, Pickett’s Charge made some sense. It was a classic Napoleonic style grand attack, with massed artillery and veteran troops attacking what was thought to be the weakest part of the line, while other units made diversions and pinned down enemy units. Admittedly, almost none of the above was executed well in practice, but it had been a winning formula in Napoleonic grand battles on several occasions.

  75. 75
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Thank you, although it was effective criticism, for my original remarks were less than concise…and possibly misleading.

  76. 76
    morzer says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.):

    Right, but then, we aren’t (I hope) the target audience. I would guess that this sort of tripe goes down pretty well among parts of the wingnut community.

    On a related topic, I did see that Maine was the whitest state in the Union, so I am not wholly surprised that some of its citizens are bugfuck crazy.

  77. 77
    LarsThorwald says:

    This nation has gone fucking insane.

  78. 78
    soonergrunt says:

    @Anoniminous: And plenty of both on both sides.

  79. 79
    Xboxershorts says:

    @morzer:

    Rural PA is a very close 2nd.

  80. 80

    I figured the Stars of David were a reference to Judah Benjamin … but that appears to be too subtle for them.

  81. 81
    Cermet says:

    @Xboxershorts: No, you are wrong and never did more people listen to southern revisionist propaganda than has the last twenty years- no shame on you for continuing that myth, many of those pricks (Southern ass licking revisionist) wrote much of the history many kids read in ameriKa history class now-a-days; the north with its superior soldiers and useless senior officers kick the ass of the best southern soldiers many times and the Army of the East easily drove to Richmond wining six of seven battles decisively against Lee the asswipe himself. McClellan had only to capture the city and end the war but the trader that ran the secret service lied to McClellan and convinced him that a new, vast southern army was about to attack; McClenan – the general who was so afraid to allow his soldiers to do their job causing some to die, retreated and war would have ended in its first year.

    Also, lets not forget Antietam when once again, Lee the asswipe, shit eater himself, was utterly outsmarted, out generaled and southern soldiers out soldiered by the superior northern men in Blue only to have McClellan believe he had was in danger of being overrun. Once more, Northern soldiers kicked the ass of the so-called superior southern soldiers (talk about a myth) only to be undone by their leader.

    While there were a number of small and most of these were of very limited or minor southern military victories, they were not terribly important (mostly out east for the southern cause); yet battle after battle in the west, the southerns were losing major battles (as in critical, if not usually in size) after major battle, wining only minor or mostly irrelevant battles. Even a few ‘great victories, were lost because like the McClellan in the east, their senior man in the west could get defeat out-of-the-jaws of victory.

  82. 82
    Anoniminous says:

    @morzer:

    Military technology, especially the rifled musket, had “put paid” to the Napoleonic assault and I submit the Civil War is itself proof of this. Time and time again, we read of massed infantry marching up a hill against outnumbered entrenched opposition and getting slaughtered.

    And then we read about “The Battle Above the Clouds” where an unauthorized, disorganized, attack prevailed.

    So, maybe I’m talking through my hat.

  83. 83
    Davis X. Machina says:

    Its production values remind me of Bob Avakian posters and tracts I used to see plastered all over college towns.

    You apparently fall down this rabbit hole and at the bottom is a trailer in which the young Jesus is learning gunsmithing from his foster-father Joseph, by working on rifled muskets for Confederate reenactors and making pre-ban SKS’s full auto, while patriotic country music plays in the background.

  84. 84

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.): A heartfelt ‘ditto’ here. I just don’t get it, and no explanations make it any easier to comprehend. So, I’m gonna try.

  85. 85
    morzer says:

    @Cermet:

    Not really. The Southern version of the Lost Cause certainly got into historical circles, and led to, among other things, a radical dislike for Grant and his presidency, but the last 20 years have hardly been a golden age for revisionism about the war as a military matter. If anything, Lee’s reputation, to name only one, has come in for something of a battering, both as a supposed military genius, and then as the noble soldier who laid down his sword and tried to bring racial harmony.

    It serves no purpose to take the opposite approach and pretend that the South was being defeated with ease before McClellan panicked, much less that he was the victim of lies. The South did fight hard, it had some good, even great generals, and its soldiers were probably better quality than those who fought for the Union for the first couple of years. They fought for a bad cause and the wrong cause, but just yelling cheap insults at dead men doesn’t make for much of a heroic pose on your part either. Equally, when you decide that the South produced useless soldiers, you effectively insult the Union armies and generals who defeated them at such cost in blood and wounds.

    You may be filled with righteous intentions, but beating up on dead men like this isn’t a good way to make your point.

  86. 86
    morzer says:

    @Anoniminous:

    You are quite right that the rifle, and better artillery, made such an assault a different proposition – or should have done. That said, soldiering in the US at the time was very much conducted under the shadow of Jomini, the Swiss theorist who wrote extensively on Napoleon’s campaigns, and we know that Lee referenced Napoleon’s style of grand attacks when planning Pickett’s Charge. Of course, he might have considered how even Napoleon had begun to lose control of the really big battles from 1812 on, partly because communications just didn’t allow for adequate coordination and updates by subordinate officers.

  87. 87

    @asiangrrlMN: Oops. Should have been ‘I’m not gonna try.” The stupid is catching, apparently.

  88. 88
    Cermet says:

    @Xboxershorts: Again, you are incorrect in the belief that the UK would get on the Southern side if Gettyburg had gone the otherway (most experts say it was too late by then.) Also, by then, public opinion in England was vastly against the slavers, and their asslicking generals like Lee the walking pile of shit. Even more to the point, England knew that it would be war with the real US and its well-trained army and their allies would have been the terrible soldiers of the south. The Men in Blue would crush the south (and talk about uniting the north if England declared war on the US) and then the real amerikan soldiers would wipe the Brits off the face of the map in north america. Not too long after, we would have cleared the seas, too.

  89. 89
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Cermet:

    You’ve made a number of false assumptions regarding what I have, and have not, accepted as historical fact.

    Aside from that, I feel put on enough by the tone of your reply that I will now feign indignance and refuse to clue you into what your false assumptions were.

    Feel better?

  90. 90
    morzer says:

    @Xboxershorts:

    I wonder whether Cleek’s glorious pie filter might be applicable?

  91. 91
    Eligy says:

    Everyone needs to back off of Brunswick. It’s an outstanding liberal town with a long tradition of activism right up to to weekly peace vigils since 2002. We do have a crappy local paper unfortunately, so I do read all the (quite good) local weeklies and I haven’t run across this crap. Militias are more the libertarian bent, but the Republican party has gone straight off the deep end here (I can’t wait for Snowe and Collins to get primaried). I agree with the commentor that mentioned possible Tea Party involvement – you can stuff a lot papers just be walking a couple of blocks downtown.

  92. 92
    Cermet says:

    @morzer: Never said there weren’t some great southern generals (nor did I praise anybecause a great general would have fought very differently – maybe Johnson) but you ignore the fact – the south would have lost the war within the first year if McClellan hadn’t retreated but instead, took Richmond.

    I defy you to say where I made a cheap shot? Lee was the worst of traders – broke his oath to his country, was a proud slaver owner who enjoyed having slaves whipped – he was a toal asswipe and in no way can anyone say otherwise. I didn’t put any real amerikans down, only Lee who only someone who refused reality, or a skin head would support (the later would never write in BJ.)

    Many southern soldiers were brave, so? So were many Nazi soldiers but they were total asswipes for what they did (and while I agree the Nazi cause was worse, the southern wasn’t too terribly better.)

  93. 93
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    @morzer:
    Good comments generally.

    An interesting aside: the US Civil War went more or less the same as way the larger industrialized total wars (WW I and WW II) which it foreshadowed. In all three cases the side with superior population and material resources but weak generalship faced a side which began the war with an initial advantage in tactics and operations, born of a highly militaristic culture. A bloody stalemate or see-saw struggle ensues as these advantages and disadvantages more or less cancel each other out. But the side with more resources eventually learns how to get better at putting them to effective use, and prevails after 4-5 years.

    There seems to be a lesson here. Superior generalship is good for winning short wars, not long ones, because the other side will catch up with you in a prolonged conflict.

  94. 94
    Cermet says:

    @morzer: Also, Southerns were not Amerikan soldiers and I am lost were you got that information – once they rebelled they were traders – their choice. Insulting them? When and where? That general lee asswipe, yes. Sothern soldiers, didn’t do that in any post.
    Northern soldiers were better and the battles I cite prove it. Does that mean southern soldiers were no good? Please, you created a staw man and I never said any such thing. Lee was a total asswipe and stop acting that speaking the truth about such a vile low life refects on southern foot soldiers.

  95. 95
    morzer says:

    @Cermet:

    I don’t think Lee’s trading skills made much of an impact one way or the other. Nor does it help to drag in the Nazis, who are irrelevant to this whole discussion.

    Lee certainly had grievous faults, and they’ve been brought out much more clearly in recent years. That said, he had some considerable virtues as well, even though applied in the wrong cause.

    You’ve taken plenty of cheap shots so far, including trying to manipulate the rest of us by claiming that anyone who disagrees with you must be a skinhead. By talking this way, you aren’t impressing anyone, and I doubt you are converting anyone to your particular cause.

  96. 96
    morzer says:

    @Cermet:

    Speaking the truth generally includes working with facts, rather than childish insults and manipulative rhetoric. As of now, all I intend to see from you will be your passionate espousal of the merits of boysenberry pie. If I feel generous, I may allow you some cheesecake later.

    Dismissed! ‘Tenshun! ‘Bout turn! March!

    We now return to reasonably civilized and intelligent broadcasting.

  97. 97
    jebediah says:

    i love the band, but when i saw the title my brain misfired and i started hearing The Stranglers: “but the money’s no good, just get a grip on yourself.”
    there are plenty of folks in US America who need to get a grip. and for the record, I don’t mind chopping wood, either.

  98. 98
    Bob L says:

    “Two hundred years after the treaty of peace between the Confederate States of America and the United States of America”

    So they’ve taken that last finally step into crazy land and are living in a pretend country.

  99. 99
    Tom65 says:

    Seriously, this makes me want to put a knife in my skull.

  100. 100
    Indie Tarheel says:

    Wow. That is just majestically stupid.

  101. 101
    licensed to kill time says:

    @Bob L:

    It actually says two years after the peace treaty, etc…which is presumably when Jesus made his suggestion that we all be Born Again. Who knew?

  102. 102
    The Other Chuck says:

    Cermet, is English a second language for you? The word is “traitor”, not “trader”. Your clumsy profanity is also gratuitous (that means “unnecessary”, not “in thanks”) and it’s just unwelcome here.

  103. 103
    David Brooks (not that one) says:

    Also, WTF is that translation of John’s Gospel? KJV it certainly ain’t (nor any other published version, I’m guessing). It reads as if someone with a poor grasp of syntax half-remembered the quote from childhood.

    “God so loved the world.” Totally, dude.

  104. 104
    Alwhite says:

    @Xboxershorts:
    Not really. The South, and slavery, lost at Vicksburg not at Gettysburg. The North would have survived a lose in PA but the South was cut in two at Vicksburg & opened for Sherman.

    Both sides had “poor” generals because they failed to realize that improvements in weapons made the old tactics deadly. Wars before 1860 were fought with pointy sticks & muskets gave you one chance to reach out and touch someone before the pointy sticks came together. Rifles and rifled cannons changed that and charging defended positions became a fools errand. The South had to fight defensively and so usually ended up with the better ground while the North charged into it with the inevitable outcome. That wasn’t genius on the part of Lee and Jackson just dumb luck. When Lee went on the offensive he was as successful as the North in attacking protected troops. The brilliant maneuvers often mentioned usually had a lot more to do with desperation because of the man & material disadvantages.

    I am sick to the teeth with the Lost Cause mythology, it needs to be exposed for what it is – pro-slavery propaganda. The South was not blessed with better generals or better troops; any success they had was more a function of the different styles circumstances forced on the two sides

  105. 105
    morzer says:

    @David Brooks (not that one):

    Actually “so” is perfectly good English syntax. It just means “to such a degree”. The problem is that they missed the linking “that” and made the next clause into a sentence. It should have been “that he gave… ” etc. I believe the Bible translation is a slightly recut New American Standard version, edited down rather badly to fit the quote into the space available.

  106. 106
    Alwhite says:

    @Anoniminous:

    Mind if I also comment on the 1st Minnesota’s effort on day 2?

    the 262 remaining members of the 1st MN charged into 1500 Rebel cocksuckers that had broken through the middle of the line. They drove them back capturing several battle flags from the panicked secessionists. there were 215 casualties out of that 262, the highest rate of any American unit in any action of any war. They held the ground and set the stage for day 3.

  107. 107
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    I don’t understand those things. “Two years after LOLwhut?” I am choosing to interpret my inability to understand what the hell they mean as a sign of my reasonably good mental health.

  108. 108
    Cronin says:

    In fairness, JLC is in fact a local hero in much of the state. I didn’t grow up in Brunswick, but in Portland we got a hefty dose of “JLC was a total badass” in history classes. Hell, we’ve got an ale named after the man you can get in most local bars.

  109. 109
    morzer says:

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I am wondering if it’s not an historical reference, but an incentive. Two years after the construction of a new Confederacy (and the peace treaty *cough cough*), five hundred bucks will be handed over to every man, woman and child. Still crazy, but crazy in a different direction, so to speak.

  110. 110
    SiubhanDuinne says:

    I like the punctuation in the John 3:16 quote.

    I also like the mouseover tag. Well done, DougJ!!

  111. 111
    soonergrunt says:

    @SiubhanDuinne: that was a nice touch.

  112. 112
    JR says:

    It might have something to do with slaying Goliath.

  113. 113
    Bokonon says:

    That line saying the note is redeemable within a certain period after a peace treaty is signed between the Confederacy and the USA … ? That is borrowed directly from the old Confederate war bonds (yes, issued by Judah Benjamin for the Confederate Treasury Department).

    It is the mother of all “maybe we’ll pay you” conditions. First the South has to win the war … which has been over since 1865 … with no peace treaty … and then this bill can be redeemed.

    Either that, or they are banking on a new outbreak of hostilities.

  114. 114
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    @Bokonon: It purports to be some kind of war bond then. OK. Still wackadoodle though.

  115. 115
    Cliff says:

    @Bokonon:

    or they are banking on a new outbreak of hostilities.

    Nailed it!!

  116. 116
    Bokonon says:

    Omnes … I would like to thing that this is a matter of the wingnuts peering so far up their own bunghole that they will disappear into it. Unfortunately, I think that what this really shows is how shockingly irrational and unhinged some people on the right are becoming nationwide. Neo-Confederate fake-o currency covered with Bible verses and Stars of David? In the heart of New England? I mean … in MAINE?

    Couple this with the secession talk in the New Hampshire GOP, and suddenly this starts seeming like this is neo-Confederate bonkers stuff is going viral. Everywhere. As if it was such a great idea last time.

  117. 117
    morzer says:

    @Bokonon:

    People tend to make New England more monolithically blue than it really is. There are some very deep red areas in Massachusetts as well as Maine and New Hampshire.

  118. 118
    randiego says:

    after all that, I still don’t get what these things are, how they were “found” in a newsweekly in Brunswick ME, etc.

    What’s the story here?

    However, I do love the Civil War history stuff.

  119. 119
    Tax Analyst says:

    That money looks like some type of freaking carnival ride ticket, except for the weird-assed religious overtones. Maybe a carnival ride ticket at a fundamentalist Christian Church fund-raiser.

  120. 120
    Fleem says:

    @Citizen Alan:
    So very much this.

    @randiego:

    I’m the person who found the… whatever they are. I tried to post as “Reader M” like DougJ noted, but the comment seems to be in perpetual moderation.

    There were three of these little slips just tucked between the pages of the Midcoast Forecaster like they were Burger King coupons. This is a local news weekly, very middle of the road, has police reports and local legislative news, high school sports, that sort of thing. I always pick them up when I’m at the grocery store. I can only guess that some genius must have come in and contributed them to the stack of papers after they were delivered.

    The picture shows the front of one “note” and the back of another one. I guess if I hold on to them, then two years after the second Confederate revolution, I’ll be able to buy a little gunpowder and maybe some crackers.

    If nobody eats my brain first.

  121. 121
    Bokonon says:

    Morzer … how well I know it. I am a former resident of Massachusetts, and have relatives throughout New England.

    No – New England is not monolithic, but given the history it is just surprising to see neo-Confederate stuff going on at a semi-respectable level. Like the nullifcation and secession brave talk in New Hampshire’s GOP primaries.

  122. 122
    Honus says:

    @Xboxershorts:
    The Confederates had their best days when the Army of the Potomac attacked them in the Shenandoah Valley. Out west, they got pretty well beaten from the outset, and most of his contemporaries blamed Lee for the disastrous invasion of Pennsylvania, where the Confederacy essentially bled to death when Lee ignored Longstreet and ordered Pickett’s Charge. Still, given a break or two, and a few hours delay in the 1st Corps getting to Washington to face off Jubal Early and we might two countries now.

    I think it was A. J. Leibling who best described the Army of Northern Virginia: “good club, couldn’t win on the road.”

  123. 123
    Anoniminous says:

    @Alwhite:

    Not at all.

    And we need to salute the men of the 140th NY under Col. O’Rourke who charged with empty muskets and sheathed bayonets, restoring the line on Little Round Top after the 16th Michigan broke.

  124. 124
    morzer says:

    @Honus:

    Not likely. Early never had enough men to break Washington’s defenses, and the recall of the First Corps was a case of a nervous higher command making a mistake through excessive caution.

    Many Confederates disliked Lee’s invasion of the North not because of strategic considerations but because they considered it a political and even moral blunder. which dented their case before God and man to be seen as defending themselves against “Yankee aggression”. Strange viewpoint, from our perspective, but it comes up in diaries and letters by Confederate soldiers and their loved ones reasonably often.

  125. 125
    AxelFoley says:

    @MoeLarryAndJesus:

    The problem with the night they drove old Dixie down is that they didn’t drive it down far enough.

    /thread

  126. 126
    ornery curmudgeon says:

    @Xboxershorts: “If not for a couple of poor decisions at Gettysburgh, this country might have a very different look and feel to it…. “

    Yeah, probably we’d be speaking German.

  127. 127
    ellid says:

    Gettysburg, based on Michael Shaara’s novel The Killer Angels, is a great look at the battle. There’s a terrific sequence showing Chamberlain’s bayonet charge down Little Round Top, with Jeff Daniels in splendid form as Chamberlain (later President of Bowdoin College in Maine).

    Even better are two scenes later in the movie:

    – Longstreet, played by Tom Berenger, nodding very reluctantly to signal Pickett’s Charge, and then throwing his cigar on the ground because he knows he just lost the battle.

    – Pickett (Stephan Lang), all but in tears, crying, “Sir, I HAVE no division!” to a bewildered Lee.

    Brilliant movie, even if Martin Sheen really is sort of a wet blanket as Lee.

  128. 128
    NickM says:

    @Anoniminous: That’s interesting – pikes also figured big in John Brown’s improbable plans.

  129. 129
    drkrick says:

    Just to wrap it all up, It was Stonewall Jackson’s old command, under his inferior replacements, who failed to take the advantageous ground at the north end of the battlefield when they had the chance. With better generalship there, the rest of the battle looks very different and Pickett’s Charge becomes unnecessary. Lee was a good strategic thinker who relied heavily on subordinates like Jackson to fill in the tactical blanks to actually implement his grand vision. The loss of Jackson made Lee’s strengths a good deal less relevant.

  130. 130
    Steeplejack says:

    @Comrade Darkness:

    [. . .] but for the living life of me I can’t find the dictionary/thesaurus app.

    Is there one? There is a dictionary/thesaurus component in Word/Office, but I have not seen a stand-alone app or widget for this, at least not from Microsoft and included as part of the OS.

  131. 131
    David Brooks (not that one) says:

    @morzer: …they missed the linking “that” and made the next clause into a sentence… yes, that’s the point I was making about their grasp of syntax. Furthermore, much of the Christianist right has a fetish about the KJV, apparently believing it to be the perfect, final inspired Word, so it was weird to see it so mangled.

    (I’d love to explain to these Republicans that the KJV was commissioned, and delivered, to underscore the Divine Right of a crypto-Catholic king).

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