Good for Goldberg

I have to admit I am surprised at this:

This seems like such an obvious point, but it is apparently not obvious to the many people who oppose the Cordoba Initiative’s planned mosque in lower Manhattan, so let me state it as clearly as possible: The Cordoba Initiative, which is headed by an imam named Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an enemy of al Qaeda, no less than Rudolph Giuliani and the Anti-Defamation League are enemies of al Qaeda. Bin Laden would sooner dispatch a truck bomb to destroy the Cordoba Initiative’s proposed community center than he would attack the ADL, for the simple reason that Osama’s most dire enemies are Muslims. This is quantitatively true, of course — al Qaeda and its ideological affiliates have murdered thousands of Muslims — but it is ideologically true as well: al Qaeda’s goal is the purification of Islam (that is to say, its extreme understanding of Islam) and apostates pose more of a threat to Bin Laden’s understanding of Islam than do infidels.

He’s right.

(via the Sullivan borg collective)






61 replies
  1. 1
    LittlePig says:

    Oh, *that* Goldberg. Had me worried for a minute.

    Jonah making sense is the Sixth Seal.

  2. 2
    carlos the dwarf says:

    Every once in a while, this Goldberg reminds us that he actually is a human being. Jonah, on the other hand…

  3. 3
    DougJ says:

    He is often reasonable about things like this. He still wants us to bomb Iran though and is likely willing to lie to try to get us do it.

    He still claims there were Iraq-Al Qaeda connections.

  4. 4
    Tom Hilton says:

    I’m less surprised that Jeff said this than I was when I thought you meant Jonah.

    Edit: x-posted…guess several others had the same thought.

  5. 5
    david mizner says:

    Yes, congrats to Goldberg for not being a bigot.

    Is it low-bar day here at BJ?

  6. 6
    Citizen Alan says:

    Me too. I think I would have fainted dead away if I had clicked the link and the spawn of Lucianne was spouting anything other than vile bigotry towards muslims.

  7. 7
    slag says:

    @LittlePig:

    Oh, that Goldberg. Had me worried for a minute.
    __
    Jonah making sense is the Sixth Seal.

    I know. I was already checking the water coming out of my faucets for blood.

  8. 8
    sven says:

    There is an obvious flaw in his reasoning:

    Muslims who believe different things imply,
    people within one religion can disagree, which implies,
    Christians can disagree, which implies,
    you can be a good Christian but disagree with me,…
    which I know isn’t true!

    So lets try it the other direction:

    I know all Christians must agree with me, so
    all members of a religion must agree, and
    Al Qaeda and the Cordoba Institute are all Muslims, so
    the Cordoba Institute and Al Qaeda are the same!

    Whew, I feel much better now,
    cognitive dissonance is a bitch!

  9. 9
    Trinity says:

    @slag: Ditto!

  10. 10
    Violet says:

    I really, really hope that New York goes right ahead and allows the community center to be built and tell the teatards to eff off. Because someone needs to stand up to these frothing idiots and a few loud, proud New Yorkers seem like just the people to do it.

  11. 11
    Ash Can says:

    If only he were always this sensible and decent.

  12. 12
    MattF says:

    Goldberg mentions in his posting that he knows Rauf, I’d guess that is what makes the difference here. And it’s irritating to have to actually say this, but interfaith discussions are, in point of fact, a good thing– and there should be more of them, not less.

    And also, is there anyone at the ADL who can tell Foxman that it’s time he retired?

  13. 13
    joe from Lowell says:

    The people denouncing this mosque are holy warriors who want a religious war between the Muslim world and the west just as much as bin Laden does.

  14. 14
    Silver says:

    This is like the time when my dog wasn’t feeling well and had diarrhea. I was thrilled with the first solid poop I’d seen in a while.

    Because you’re used to a huge mess, it takes you a minute to realize that you’re excited over a pile of shit…

  15. 15
    eemom says:

    oh God, now Lieberman has weighed in.

    Guess which side he’s on. Go on, guess!

    Build. The. Damn. Mosque. Fan the fires of bigotry. Maybe, while the assholes are distracted with this, the rest of us can get some shit done.

  16. 16
  17. 17
    wilfred says:

    After a protracted battle that set off a national debate over freedom of religion, a Muslim center and mosque to be built two blocks from ground zero surmounted a final hurdle on Tuesday. The city’s Landmarks Preservation Commission voted 9 to 0 against granting historic protection to the building at 45-47 Park Place in Lower Manhattan, where the $100 million center would be built.

    Mayor Bloomberg deserves a lot of credit for this.

    http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes......hurdle/?hp

  18. 18
    someguy says:

    If it’s about outreach to non-Muslims they maybe coulda picked a better name than the Cordoba Project though. Naming it for the capital of Al Andalus is like naming a U.S. cultural exchange in Tokyo the Pearl Harbor Center.

  19. 19
    Bulworth says:

    As wingnutty as Goldberg is I have no doubt that this deviation from teaturd orthodoxy is going to get his name put on some enemies list.

  20. 20
    MattF says:

    @someguy

    FYI.

  21. 21
    Bulworth says:

    Bloomberg: “To cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists,” he said, standing with religious leaders in front of the Statue of Liberty.

    Well done.

  22. 22
    wilfred says:

    @someguy:

    To educated Muslims, Cordoba represents not only a highlight of Islamic culture but a confluence of Muslim, Jewish and Christian scholarship.

    Harold Bloom, no less, wrote: “Our current multiculturalism, the plague of our universities and media, is a parody of the culture of Cordoba and Granada in their decadence.” A weirdly reactionary, backhanded compliment. See . María Rosa Manocal’s The Ornament of the World.

  23. 23
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    Right for the wrong reasons. Are the people behind Cordoba criminals? Was the bureaucratic process followed properly? Then why is it even a question? Would it be OK to exclude an African-American from buying the house next door unless he was one of the “good negroes”?

  24. 24
    MattR says:

    I was very disappointed to see a handful of teatards protesting on the courthouse lawn when I went back to my parents house this past weekend. At least I assume they were teatards based on their signs opposing the Cordoba mosque and supporting Arizona. Unfortunately I had neither the time nor motivation to confront them.

  25. 25
    Bulworth says:

    Also, too, Richard Cohen is making sense:

    Gingrich noted that there “are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.” True enough. However, it is not the government of Saudi Arabia that seeks to open a mosque in Lower Manhattan, but a private group. In addition, and just for the record, Saudi Arabia does not represent all of Islam and, also just for the record, the al-Qaeda terrorists who murdered nearly 3,000 people on Sept. 11, 2001, would gladly have added the vast Saudi royal family to the list of victims. In recompense, the Saudis would just as gladly apply some dull swords to the necks of al-Qaeda’s leaders.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....v=hcmodule

  26. 26
    Bnut says:

    Christ, can’t the teatards let me have this damn city? I moved out of Alabama to get away from this crap. Couple weeks ago I saw the ole Confederate battle flag…in the F’ing BRONX.

  27. 27
    Bnut says:

    @Bulworth:

    This is a good line from the Cohen bit: Nonetheless, this math is lost on the likes of, say, Rick Lazio, who is running for New York governor and, probably as a consequence, is a vociferous anti-mosqueteer. He of all people should know that it is unfair to judge an entire people by the criminal behavior of a few: capiche?

  28. 28
    The Other Chuck says:

    Gingrich noted that there “are no churches or synagogues in Saudi Arabia.”

    He then went on to state that we should therefore emulate Saudi Arabia.

    Of course he’s also wrong, but naturally, there are other nuances to consider like shut up that’s why.

  29. 29
    4tehlulz says:

    @Bulworth: Next thing you know, Broder will call out Holy Joe.

    Then the Rapture will happen, and it will be a moot point.

  30. 30
    El Cid says:

    Well…

    The Cordoba Initiative, which is headed by an imam named Feisal Abdul Rauf, is an enemy of al Qaeda, no less than Rudolph Giuliani and the Anti-Defamation League are enemies of al Qaeda.

    Okay, but his blood runs Muslimarian, so at some point he just can’t help but become an Al Qa’ida Taliban Hamas dupe. This is pure logic.

  31. 31
    mantis says:

    I don’t care if he’s right. Jeffrey Goldberg can go fuck himself.

  32. 32

    You’d think this would be self-evident and not require a lot of words … you’d think.

  33. 33
    wilfred says:

    Newt Ginrich’s spokesman told Salon in a phone interview today that building a mosque at Ground Zero “would be like putting a statue of Mussolini or Marx at Arlington National Cemetery.”

    It would be like putting a velvet macrame painting of St. Sebastian in the men’s room at the National Review, too, yes? Something like that?

  34. 34
    Bulworth says:

    I don’t get the PalinGingrichTeatard business about Saudia Arabia. What does Saudia Arabia have to do with this? They aren’t having the center built and they didn’t attack us on 9/11, etc.

    Also, too, Saudia Arabia is a theocracy and Mecca a holy city. Are the teaturds suggesting that Ground Zero is some sort of holy Christian site?

  35. 35
    Jeff Fecke says:

    @Bruce (formerly Steve S.):

    Would it be OK to exclude an African-American from buying the house next door unless he was one of the “good negroes”?

    If you’re a teabagger, the answer is simple: what “good negroes”?

  36. 36
    wenchacha says:

    But but but. Won’t building a mosque that serves enemies to Al Qaeda cause Al Qaeda to want to attack right near Ground Zero? Again?

    There’s gotta be some failsafe, logimical reason to keep them ragheads from reducing the absolute square footage we can devote to Je$u$.

  37. 37
    MattF says:

    @Bulworth

    There’s nothing to get. It doesn’t have to make sense. Palin and Gingrich are appealing to the bigot vote.

  38. 38
    Bnut says:

    What exactly is the required distance from Republican adopted national monuments that dirty commie Muslims must stay? Five blocks? Twenty? Until I hear a teatard give me a concrete answer, then I will continue to shout racism and xenophobia. And after, also too.

  39. 39
    MattR says:

    @MattR: I can’t believe I forgot to mention that they were protesting about 50 yards away from a giant sculpture of a vagina.

  40. 40
    Josh says:

    Goldberg writes betterly than do I: “Apostates pose a greater threat than infidels” was what I was trying to say, more verbosely, in a previous thread about American Likudist attitudes toward progressive Jews.

  41. 41
    burnspbesq says:

    @Bulworth:

    “Are the teaturds suggesting that Ground Zero is some sort of holy Christian site?”

    Now you’ve done it. You just HAD to plant that seed in their tiny lizard brains, didn’t you?

  42. 42
    Peter J says:

    But but but. Won’t building a mosque that serves enemies to Al Qaeda cause Al Qaeda to want to attack right near Ground Zero? Again?

    More likely, even very likely, due to the hate being spewed from the right, some fundamental christian will blow the building up.

  43. 43
    Peter J says:

    Mayor Bloomberg deserves a lot of credit for this.

    And he chose a great spot.

    “To cave to popular sentiment would be to hand a victory to the terrorists,” he said, standing with religious leaders in front of the Statue of Liberty.

  44. 44
    elmo says:

    I’ll say the same thing here that I said over at the Washington Monthly: these people (meaning the Palins and Gingriches, not the Jeff Goldbergs) do not even respect, much less love, the United States of America.

    They believe that the United States of America is a weak, vulnerable, victim nation, whose only hope of survival is a tribal ethos of exclusion and bigotry. Their United States does not countenance religious liberty or equal protection of the laws to all men, and they justify themselves by making comparisons to Saudi Arabia and Iran, as if the United States should aspire to be no better.

    I will not only question their patriotism, I will deny it in clear and unambiguous terms. These people are not patriots. I do not know what nation they love, but it is not the United States of America, and they are no countrymen of mine.

  45. 45
    El Cid says:

    @Peter J: More than likely some rightnut will be caught with a weapons depot in his house and no knowledge of how to use explosives after bragging to all about how he was going to blow up this Muslim anti-America center at the WTC.

  46. 46
    PTirebiter says:

    @Bulworth: There’s only two things that real Americans hate:
    People who are intolerant of the religious beliefs of others, and Muslims.

  47. 47
    El Cid says:

    @PTirebiter: We have to preemptively wage war against Muslims because we are sure that in the future they will be destroying our freedom of religion.

  48. 48
    Bruce (formerly Steve S.) says:

    @Jeff Fecke:

    If you’re a teabagger, the answer is simple: what “good negroes”?

    Sammy Davis Jr.

  49. 49
    mantis says:

    @El Cid:

    More than likely some rightnut will be caught with a weapons depot in his house and no knowledge of how to use explosives after bragging to all about how he was going to blow up this Muslim anti-America center at the WTC.

    Indeed. The only good thing about the increase is wingnut domestic terrorists is their incompetence.

  50. 50
    Tonybrown74 says:

    It’s like being surprised by someone peeing in a toilet instead of your carpet …

    Sure, good for you for doing the right thing, but WTF is wrong with you the rest of the time?

  51. 51
    PTirebiter says:

    @El Cid: Would that be the Newt Doctrine, or is he just playing rodeo clown for the Pope?

  52. 52
    shortstop says:

    “Are the teaturds suggesting that Ground Zero is some sort of holy Christian site?”
    Now you’ve done it. You just HAD to plant that seed in their tiny lizard brains, didn’t you?

    It’s been there all along. Haven’t you seen the endless ‘bagger references to “sacred ground” and the planned mosque’s location being a “sacrilege”?

  53. 53
    mantis says:

    @Jeff Fecke:

    If you’re a teabagger, the answer is simple: what “good negroes”?

    There are three. Alan Keyes, Kenneth “Fainting Goat” Gladney, and that goofball that sings teabagger songs, Lloyd Marcus. The teabaggers would be happy to get rid of all the negroes but those three.

  54. 54
    Masako de Santangel says:

    @someguy:

    Dead wrong, old bean. Cordoba was the center of the “Convivencia,” a time and place where Muslims, Jews and Christians lived and flourished together in relative harmony. The Almohads contributed to the end of it, but nowhere near as much as the Church. “No-one expects the Spanish Inquisition.” Only a Christian would regard the 700 year Muslim rule as an attack on a Christian nation justifying a “Reconquista” (Queen Isabel’s word, not mine) and ethnic cleansing. A Sephardic Jew like my late father would recall ‘al-Andaluz rather more kindly than the Church who forced our ancestors to flee to Ottoman territory to avoid being burned alive for our property.

    See Juan Cole: http://snipurl.com/105qfs [www_juancole_com]

    I’m also Japanese-American, so double-dope slap to you for irrelevant and irresponsible use of Pearl Harbor. Please try to keep up: the standard equivalency is with 9-11, per Wolfowitz an event that could be used to justify a predetermined war. You also apparently know jack about the post-war US occupation of Japan, which did mandate “pro-democracy, ahem capitalism” propaganda in the schools for twenty years. Thus the famous work ethic of my mother’s generation is the result of having read “The Organization Man” (and “Taking Ivy”) as a vade mecum. They were living “Mad Men” in the 80’s and still do to a surprising extent.

  55. 55
    cyntax says:

    Also, too, Bloomberg does the right the thing:

    Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has emerged as the unlikely but passionate defender of the planned Muslim community center near ground zero, today traveled to Governors Island off the tip of Lower Manhattan to deliver a stirring plea for sanity in what he called “[as] important a test of the separation of church and state as we may see in our lifetimes.”

  56. 56
    maus says:

    He’s right.

    I don’t agree.

    al Qaeda’s goal is the purification of Islam (that is to say, its extreme understanding of Islam) and apostates pose more of a threat to Bin Laden’s understanding of Islam than do infidels.

    At this point in time, it is much better PR to kill infidels than to move to the mission of unifying Islam (under your banner.)

    Again, Goldberg reduces the parties involved to unthinking caricatures.

  57. 57
    Dr. Grumpus says:

    And the baggers will now claim that Cordoba should not be built because it just presents such an inviting target for OBL and it’s a matter of national security in 10…9…8…7…

    –Dr. Grumpus

  58. 58
    Nylund says:

    If this is true, then the mosque will only INCREASE the chance of another WTC area attack! It only further proves we should not allow it.

    See? That’s how awesome wingnut logic is. It has an answer for everything because inherent contradictions only make it stronger. If you want, I can similarly prove that cable news has a liberal bias by pointing out that the most popular cable news network has a conservative bias (because “the exception proves the rule”.

    It reminds me quite a bit of the same sort of logic my wife uses to prove that no matter what, I am always wrong.

  59. 59
    maus says:

    @Dr. Grumpus:

    And the baggers will now claim that Cordoba should not be built because it just presents such an inviting target for OBL and it’s a matter of national security in 10…9…8…7…

    Exactly, while I’d love to believe that conservatives would all come to their senses, <3 John Cole but you really do take these manipulators at face value far too often.

    @Nylund: They’re waiting to snag more “how progressive of you!” compliments before they move to the next stage of the narrative.

  60. 60
    Roger Moore says:

    @Jeff Fecke:

    If you’re a teabagger, the answer is simple: what “good negroes”?

    The negroes who know their place and don’t try to outdo their betters. SATSQ. Of course “their place” is not next door to decent white folk, so by definition the ones who move in next door aren’t “good negroes”.

  61. 61
    matoko_chan says:

    apostates pose more of a threat to Bin Laden’s understanding of Islam than do infidels.

    wow….im sure the Park51 muslims would be thrilled to hear Goldberg describe them as “apostates”. What a retard.
    western culture chauvinism is ingrained just as deep in most americans as racism is in the teatards and the GOP.
    that is so insulting.
    OBL doesn’t consider liberal muslims to be apostates…..he calls us maftoons. same thing as an Uncle Tom to the black folk, and a kapo to the Jews.

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