Center Right Nation

Hello again.

I was kay the commenter and now I’m Kay.

I live in a rural Ohio county and I’m active in the county and state Party.

I’m a political minority here, and I am sometimes photographed standing next to the other Democrat, so I get  email “notices” like this from local Republicans who know me, or somehow got my email address:

Jul 17, 2010 … Jerry Garcia in concert. MONTPELIER -The public is cordially invited to a Southern gospel concert with Jerry Garcia at 10:30 a.m. Sunday.

It says Jerry Garcia so it goes to the Democrat.  That one was actually pretty funny.

I don’t mind at all being a being a numerical political minority here.

I think of us as “scrappy” rather than “the designated losers”.

In any event, all Democrats are a political minority, regardless of numbers, because as you-all know despite the math, this is a Center Right Nation.

Thanks for having me, John.

207 replies
  1. 1
    licensed to kill time says:

    When I heard yesterday that we would have a new female front pager, I really was hoping it was you, Kay. Now it’s confirmed! I have always enjoyed your comments, they are informative, logical, on point and often funny. I like your sense of humor and I always learn something from you, so welcome to the big time, Kay!

  2. 2
    Steeplejack says:

    Congratulations on the promotion! Look forward to reading your deep thoughts–and the yowling arguments they will spawn.

  3. 3
    valdivia says:

    yay Kay! welcome as a front pager. always have loved your comments so it’s good to see you getting a platform.

  4. 4
    Comrade Colette Collaboratrice says:

    From the Left Coast to the center left, welcome!

  5. 5
    Econwatcher says:

    Kay, I’ve enjoyed your comments in the past and look forward to your long and prosperous reign as a headliner.

  6. 6
    slag says:

    Excellent, Kay! Please post more often than that energy guy does.

  7. 7
    aimai says:

    Kay,
    I’m so happy to see you front paged! I’ve learned a lot from your comments in the last year or so and I always look forward to seeing your take on things. This is a great decision by John and Co. Can’t wait to see what you have to say in a longer format.

    aimai

  8. 8
    mistermix says:

    Welcome, Kay, looking forward to your posts.

  9. 9
    Tom Hilton says:

    Congratulations! I’ve always appreciated your comments, so I look forward to your front-page stuff.

  10. 10
    Max says:

    Outstanding! Your posts have always provided thoughtful, informative and intelligent perspective and I’m stoked to be able to read more from you.

    Girls rock!

  11. 11
    flukebucket says:

    Thanks for having me, John.

    You might be a female but you have bigger balls than I will ever have.

    Best of luck to you.

  12. 12
  13. 13
    shortstop says:

    Yeah! My hope has been fulfilled! So glad to have you on the FP, kay!

  14. 14
    Josie says:

    Welcome as a front pager, Kay. As others have indicated, your comments have been educational and logical. I’m looking forward to reading more of your take on things political and otherwise.

  15. 15
    demo woman says:

    Thanks Kay for agreeing to post on the front page.

  16. 16
    AB says:

    yay! now wheres your last initial :o

  17. 17
    Corner Stone says:

    Good sweet Christ.

  18. 18
    David Hunt says:

    Congratulations. Welcome to the Monkey House.

  19. 19
    Violet says:

    Yay! Congrats, Kay! Looking forward to your posts.

  20. 20
    John Bird says:

    I’m next, dammit!

  21. 21
    matoko_chan says:

    Welcome Kay.
    i hope ppl will be nicer to you than mmonides (that energy guy).
    and we are a center right nation.
    it is just that the darkskinned conservatives only vote democratic anymore.
    ;)

  22. 22
    SIA says:

    Kay! So glad you’re now a front pager – you deserve it! Congratulations! I’ll look forward to your posts. Kay & Anne Laurie – fantastic!

  23. 23
    roshan says:

    Wait, you can’t just walk right in. We are all undressed and shit . Next time please call before arriving.

  24. 24
    trollhattan says:

    Way to go, Kay, I’m looking forward to your posts! Now that you’re a prestigious bloggerperson, you need a prestigious boat to go with the lifestyle. May I suggest this one?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors.....ngQ5fBoats

    Also, too, it’ll be excellent on the upper Midwest bass circuit.

  25. 25
    Duane says:

    great to have you around Kay…..as a rural north central Ohio Democrat…..thank god not Holmes County or all of this would be pointless. I can say I feel your pain and I know exactly what it feels like to be a political minority. I am looking forward to your posts!

    Duane

  26. 26
    ThatLeftTurnInABQ says:

    What everybody else said – congrats!

    And kudos to John for the quality way he has built up a top notch front page crew over the years. Andrew Sullivan take note – you don’t have to let the idiots take over the asylum just because you need a break every now ‘n then.

  27. 27
    neill says:

    welcome to the “above the fold” Kay!

    (if you came to eugene, you’d see jerry walking around all over town…i saw him at the springfield bash on sunday)

  28. 28
    zzyzx says:

    Well? Did you go? Did he get confused why people were calling out for Dark Star the whole time?

  29. 29
    Omnes Omnibus says:

    Congrats, Kay. Now post some pet pictures before we wreck the place.

  30. 30
    Davis X. Machina says:

    “She came in here and she trashed the place,” says Washington Post columnist David Broder, “and it’s not her place.”

  31. 31
    John Bird says:

    @matoko_chan:

    Interesting link there. I’ve always been curious about these links because I have a deep-seated desire for order, but not one that prefers tradition. Certainly the controversial term for the “Republican type” that’s not being used in the article is “authoritarian personality”, something quite loaded by the Frankfurt School and others, but something that I think perfectly describes the Republicans of the era, who have cornered the market on appeals to insecure authoritarians since the South left the Democratic Party.

    Can anyone dig up the link to the study where self-identified conservatives filled out a survey of beliefs, and, when one of their beliefs was demonstrated to be wrong, actually reported a STRONGER support for the erroneous belief?

  32. 32
  33. 33
    jeffreyw says:

    Damn, there goes my hope for more open thread fluff. Where am I gonna post pics of food or hummers, or cats n dogs? Another front pager posting substantive stuff. Jeebus. Anyway, hiya and welcome. Sniff.

  34. 34
    trollhattan says:

    @ThatLeftTurnInABQ:

    Andrew Sullivan take note – you don’t have to let the idiots take over the asylum just because you need a break every now ‘n then.

    This.

  35. 35
    stuckinred says:

    LIKE THE WIND THROUGH THE TREES
    A, O, OH WAY TO GO OHIO

    Yay Kay!

  36. 36
    Anonymous says:

    Didn’t like your posts, Kay, and I don’t expect to like your front-pagers either!

    Word of advice: In every post you write, make sure to include a giant, cheesy hyperbolic IMG like Dennis G.’s Confederate Elephant that screams “I’m an insulated left-winger who never met a Republican!” That way, I can know from only one quick glance that I can safely skip your post.

    And here’s a tip for the blogmaster: your stable suffers from overcrowding. But I guess more front-pages means more hits means more advertising dollars, huh, John? Pitiful.

    This blog used to be a great place to see how a lifelong Republican reacts when his party deserts him. Now it’s something between a Daily Kos clone and an AARP meeting.

  37. 37
    matoko_chan says:

    @John Bird:

    Can anyone dig up the link to the study where self-identified conservatives filled out a survey of beliefs, and, when one of their beliefs was demonstrated to be wrong, actually reported a STRONGER support for the erroneous belief?

    You betcha! it is called backfire effect and only observed in conservatives in this study, altho both liberals and conservatives practiced fact blocking.
    sry for OT, Kay, but the biological basis of behavior is one of my favorite things.
    ummmm…are you perhaps a buckeye?
    you should know im a wolverine born and bred.
    the good kind of wolverine, not the red dawn kind.
    ;)

  38. 38
    Gravenstone says:

    Welcome and congratulations, Kay!

    Quick side note regarding the Republican “invite” in your post – is Montpelier in the general region of Ohio you’re from? I ask because I grew up a few miles from there, and aside from a passing reference in The Stand (along with the metropolis formerly known as Podunk) it amuses me to see it gain mention in a higher profile location like this.

  39. 39
    danimal says:

    Yay, it’s Kay! Your comments have always been insightful.

    Remember that in case I question your judgement, your parentage and your treatment of animals in future posts.

  40. 40
    stuckinred says:

    @jeffreyw: Thought you were on the mower!

  41. 41
    Econwatcher says:

    mmonides had the misfortune of starting just as the Helen Thomas controversy was brewing. That was as nasty a civil war as I have ever seen on this site. I was basically on the side of mmonides, but I think he lost his cool a bit and got bogged down in some unnecessary flame wars.

    Kay has the better fortune of beginning when we’re all agreeing on something: Breitbart deserves whatever treatment Zed got in the basement of the pawn shop after Bruce Willis left on his chopper.

  42. 42
    evinfuilt says:

    I actually think this is the sign that Balloon-Juice is going big-time. Congrats Kay.

  43. 43
    Morbo says:

    @Corner Stone: /Snerk

  44. 44
    stuckinred says:

    @Anonymous: Don’t let control alt delete hit you in the ass.

  45. 45
    jeffreyw says:

    @stuckinred: I thought I was out, but y’all keep draggin me back again. I’m outta here.

  46. 46
  47. 47
    Genine says:

    Yay, Kay! I was hoping the new front-pager would be you. I love your comments, so thoughtful and insightful. I look forward to what you add to the front-page.

    Congrats to you… and to us!

    And props to John and all. Excellent choice!

  48. 48
    Chyron HR says:

    @Anonymous:

    In every post you write, make sure to include a giant, cheesy hyperbolic IMG like Dennis G.’s Confederate Elephant that screams “I’m an insulated left-winger who never met a Republican!”

    The slaves were the real Confederate traitors also, too.

  49. 49
    cat48 says:

    Congrats Kay, but you will still comment, right? You better because you are one of my favorites.

  50. 50
    freelancer says:

    Congrats Kay!

    Just don’t fucking blog about fucking soccer, and we’ll be good, mKay, Kay?

  51. 51
    gwangung says:

    Some heads ‘sploding around here.

    Heh heh heh.

  52. 52
    Jim Pharo says:

    Hi, Kay!

    “I think of us as “scrappy” rather than “the designated losers”.

    Might I suggest you think of yourself as “right” and the other side as “wrong?” No reason not to speak plainly…

    Looking forward to hearing more from you!

  53. 53
    Rosalita says:

    Welcome Kay! I’ve enjoyed your comments, looking forward to your posts.

  54. 54
    Mnemosyne says:

    Yay! It makes me happiest of all that you piss off all the right people, even right here at B-J. Congrats!

  55. 55
    R-Jud says:

    YES!

    Thanks, Cole, for inviting her to post. Thanks, Kay, for agreeing to contribute (more).

  56. 56
    Comrade Mary says:

    Wheee! Hi, Kay! Nice to see you living large on the front page.

  57. 57
    Cat Lady says:

    Yay kay! You deserve it and earned it on that epic 1000 comment Greenwald thread back in the spring. You were the last one standing IIRC. Determination – you haz it!

  58. 58
    matoko_chan says:

    @Anonymous: hmmm…i think you are havin a problem keepin up….praps you should just step on then boi.

    You understand the facts that I’m tryin’ to give to you
    You movin’ so slow like you just don’t have a clue
    Didn’t mama teach you to read some books?
    You’re the difference of a man and an adolescent
    It ain you boo, so get tha steppin’

    ;)

  59. 59
    gwangung says:

    This blog used to be a great place to see how a lifelong Republican reacts when his party deserts him. Now it’s something between a Daily Kos clone and an AARP meeting.

    Ah, go DIAF, ya whippersnapper. Or I’ll whack you in the shins with my cane.

  60. 60
    Neutron Flux says:

    Outstanding.

    Looking forward to your work.

  61. 61
    eemom says:

    Congrats Kay! You rawk.

  62. 62
    Xenos says:

    Congrats, Kay! Any family law and juvenile court blogging in the offing?

    And where is the bicycling reporting front pager? The Tour de France is pretty exciting this year.

  63. 63
    eemom says:

    …..and congrats on your first troll, also too.

    Though I trust you will in time attract a better quality of troll than one who’s too stupid/lazy to come up with anything better than “Anonymous.”

  64. 64
    eemom says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    It makes me happiest of all that you piss off all the right people, even right here at B-J.

    Aaaaaymen.

  65. 65
    twiffer says:

    wait, i’m still confused about how they booked jerry from beyond the grave.

  66. 66
    Napoleon says:

    Welcome aboard.

  67. 67
    Svensker says:

    Hey, congrats Kay — looking forward to reading your posts.

    And Anonymous sounds suspiciously like “Tim” (not Tim F), the guy who’s always criticizing John’s pet owner chops. The more I think about it, the more I think “Tim” has a big ole crush on John but can’t deal with that, so goes for the personal criticisms. Just a thought — after all, it would be wrong not to speculate!

  68. 68
    Felanius Kootea (formerly Salt and freshly ground black people) says:

    Congratulations Kay! Good to see your name up there :).

  69. 69
    Xboxershorts says:

    I’m pretty sure Jerry Garcia is still kicking out the vibes at that great gig in the sky and when it’s my time, I’ll be standing on the moon with front row seats.

    Welcome Kay!

  70. 70
    Corner Stone says:

    @Econwatcher:

    mmonides had the misfortune of starting just as the Helen Thomas controversy was brewing.

    Plus he’s just a douchebag.

  71. 71
    kindness says:

    @Anonymous:

    Anonymous…grow a pair and give yourself a name. At the same time, actually say what you believe in rather than tear others down for what they believe. Dickless…..that’s what you are (my apologies for offending anyone out there, no you don’t actually need a dick to contribute, just don’t be a dick).

    wrt Jerry Garcia….probably not the same Jerry but I miss him terribly. He lives in my heart still.

    And to Kay….CONGRADULATIONS…..you are now part of a fine stable. Make the most of it.

  72. 72
    Corner Stone says:

    @evinfuilt:

    I actually think this is the sign that Balloon-Juice is going big-time.

    In what way? Did aimai or Hilzoy agree to start FP’ing?
    And even without that, you do know Atrios links to this blog about twice a week.

  73. 73
    South of I-10 says:

    I check in at lunch and find this good news! Congrats Kay!

  74. 74
    Xboxershorts says:

    @Anonymous:

    Cowardice. A drive by anonymous hit job. meh…

  75. 75
    Corner Stone says:

    @Cat Lady:

    You deserve it and earned it on that epic 1000 comment Greenwald thread back in the spring. You were the last one standing IIRC.

    The one where she repeatedly backed up the wall to wall schmearing of commenter “Mary” who just pulled out the shit hose and started spraying in the hopes something would stick?

  76. 76
    roshan says:

    @Anonymous:
    Ya dun goofed. Don’t make me back-trace you or else the consequences will never be the same.

  77. 77
    Corner Stone says:

    @roshan: What action are you threatening here?

  78. 78
    John Bird says:

    @matoko_chan:

    Thank you so, so, SO much – I’ve been looking for that study for a while, and it’s possible that I first found it from a post you made here earlier.

  79. 79
    roshan says:

    @Corner Stone:
    Something on these lines

  80. 80
    Corner Stone says:

    @roshan: Oh. Well then carry on.

  81. 81
    John Bird says:

    @matoko_chan:

    While we’re drifting OT, I was wondering if you had any recommendations regarding books for lay readers on biological bases for behavior.

    Thanks!

  82. 82
    eemom says:

    @Corner Stone:

    That is complete bullshit, CS. Kay did actual research on the questions Mary was asking in that thread and posted the results.

    Are you really THAT determined to consistently be an asshole to those of us you favor with your petty dislike?

  83. 83
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Anonymous:

    Now it’s something between a Daily Kos clone and an AARP meeting.

    Wow, not only dead wrong, on both counts, but a gratuitous slam at people of wrinkle? Shame on you.

    Fuck you, pal. I’ll kick your little punk ass all the way to Usenet where it belongs :)

  84. 84
    John Bird says:

    @Anonymous:

    The problem with this troll is that any Southern Democrat is going to snicker a little at that elephant-flag, too. When they live next door to us, the neo-Confederate crap is far funnier, because we get to meet these people in person and find out whether they’re basement-dwelling miniature-reenactment albinos or the wealthy and insane. The sheer number of them WITHOUT a trace of a Southern accent who I’ve met in North Carolina is making me smile right now as I reflect.

  85. 85
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    You are okay with me, Kay, as long as you don’t become one of those female bloggers who shrieks “sexism” every time somebody doesn’t hold a political door open for a lady somewhere.

    If you get my drift.

    Gender baiting is about one inch short of race baiting, for me, in the Annoying Shit department.

  86. 86
    John Bird says:

    For my two cents, Kay, I hope you are feminist enough to annoy the shit out of LikeableInMyOwnWay, constantly.

  87. 87
    slag says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: In Your Own Way? I’m now skeptical you have a way.

  88. 88
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @slag:

    You can actually experience skepticism?

  89. 89
    slag says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: You’re right. I’m not skeptical. I’m convinced. You have no way.

  90. 90
    Brachiator says:

    Very nice!

    I look forward to reading your contributions.

    Welcome, felicitations, have a great time.

  91. 91
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @John Bird:

    Gender baiting is not feminism. It makes a mockery of feminism. Crying sexism every time a woman gets a snub in the real world does not advance any worthwhile cause.

    This is so obvious that it would go without saying .. except that we are here, where nothing can go without saying.

  92. 92
    Corner Stone says:

    @eemom: Ha. If anyone wants to see kay lose her shit and come unglued they should read that thread.

  93. 93
    slag says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: Well, since you’re the douchebag who decided to gender bait on Kay’s very first post, we’ll have to yield to your expertise on the subject.

  94. 94
    Corner Stone says:

    @eemom:

    Are you really THAT determined to consistently be an asshole to those of us you favor with your petty dislike?

    I think we all know the answer to that.

  95. 95
    matoko_chan says:

    @John Bird: lol..i have at least 500 favorite books.
    ;)
    short list– starter easysauce
    Pascal Boyer– Religion Explained
    Matt Ridley– Nature via Nuture
    my fav Dawkins– The Blind Watchmaker– Endorphin software modelling for LoTR CG horses came from here.
    Pinker– The Language Instinct, Blank Slate and How the Mind Works–all good!
    Mark Buchanan– Small World (social network theory)

    is that enuff?

  96. 96
    Midnight Marauder says:

    Kudos, kay Kay. I’ve always been a fan of your scrappy style, as a fellow scrapper myself.

  97. 97
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @slag:

    Oh, so suggesting that we refrain from gender baiting … is gender baiting?

    Brilliant, Mr. Breitbart. Brilliant.

  98. 98
    Corner Stone says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: Dude, you have to at least try and remember when you’re posting as TZ and when you’re posting as Little Dreamer.

  99. 99
    Cloudspitter says:

    Went to school in Ohio. Still have fond memories of the place, even from New Orleans, where I currently live.
    Thanks for coming, Kay.

  100. 100
    slag says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: Tell you what, asshole. When you make the very same unwarranted comment to every new male poster on Balloon Juice, we’ll discuss the issue further. Until then, you’re just another sexist asshole who thinks that being called a sexist asshole means that you’re not a sexist asshole.

  101. 101
    mandarama says:

    Kay, you’ve always been one of my favorite commenters. I’m looking forward to seeing what you’ve got to say.

  102. 102
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I don’t post as little dreamer, and if you would email me as I suggested, I can easily prove it to you. Or, ask John Cole, he knows who we both are. So does Dougj.

    But LD and I do share a few views, one of which is that gratuitous gender baiting, such as that practiced by Annie Laurie, is just infuriating bullshit. Quite honestly I am surprised that Cole lets her get away with it, since he has expressed some displeasure with gender baiting himself in the past.

  103. 103
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @slag:

    You’re an idiot. You don’t know enough of my views to call me a sexist, or not a sexist, for one thing.

    And again, you are suggesting that a request to avoid gender baiting is gender baiting? Seriously? Are you fucking serious?

    Any male who speaks up about it is a sexist?

    Not even the ADL can be that fucking reactionary.

  104. 104
    John Bird says:

    @matoko_chan:

    More than a start – you’ve included a couple names that I know I should read more of but haven’t as much as I should (Pinker being the top one there). That’s as useful to me as the stuff I don’t recognize, believe it or not. :)

    Out of curiosity, have you read any of Daniel Dennett’s work in cognitive philosophy and what do you think of it?

  105. 105
    DFH no.6 says:

    Well, Kay, I’m happy to see you join John’s front page. From Ohio myself, a long time back (Cleveland, inner city even, not very much like rural Ohio, though I did spend a lot of my youth hanging out in Medina County).

    Anonymous @36 can suck it, of course. So sorry BJ is no longer living up to his (her) expectations (though the bit about DailyKos and AARP made me chuckle). Why don’t you start your own fucking blog? Maybe somebody will read it (might just have to pick a better moniker, though).

    I began reading BJ back when John was about the only conserva-blogger who wasn’t batshit insane and mean as a venomous snake, even if he then supported Bush, etc., etc.

    I felt there was hope for John, much as I had hope for a lifelong Repub brother-in-law who ended up enthusiastically attending Obama’s Inauguration with me.

    But I don’t see the change in John being so much a Republican Party that deserted him as a transformation of John’s essential worldview (maybe that’s why Anonymous thinks this place sounds like DailyKos).

    I was around for the Republican Party and assorted conservative mouthpieces and operatives of Nixon’s execrable reign, and the John Cole of today wouldn’t be happy with them either. Nor with Reagan’s crowd, nor the howling Gingrich/DeLay/impeachment monkeys.

    The regression of Republicans/conservatives has worsened each decade, primarily because the Party/movement has been steadily coalescing into a purer and purer form of Bircherism till there’s now little room for anything else.

    But the Republican Party didn’t desert John — someone offered John the red pill, and he took it (just like my brother-in-law).

  106. 106
    eemom says:

    @Corner Stone:

    yeah, but now that One of Our Own is a front pager she can ban your pissy little ass. Tee hee.

  107. 107
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @eemom:

    Good grief. One of our own?

    Gender tribalism? I swear, hang around here long enough, you will see everything.

    One of our own.

    Sigh.

  108. 108
    burnspbesq says:

    @freelancer:

    Can’t wait for Kay’s analysis of the Champions League third qualifying round draw.

    Srsly, congrats on the promotion, Kay, and illegitimus non carborundum.

  109. 109
    slag says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Any male who speaks up about it is a sexist?

    Yes. I’m going on record. Anyone who decides to preemptively bitch about gender baiting to a brand new female poster is a sexist asshole. And notice I said “anyone”. That means male or female. I wouldn’t want to discriminate against gender in this regard.

    Same rules apply if you were to preemptively warn a new non-white poster about the dangers of race baiting. You would be a racist asshole.

    White male is not a default status. Just being one doesn’t preclude anyone from being willing or able to race or gender bait. So, I suggest that, in the future, if you don’t want to be considered a racist/sexist asshole, you should preemptively bitch about race or gender baiting to all white males as well. Better safe than sorry.

  110. 110
    burnspbesq says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Revenez sous le pont, s’il vous plait. Nous n’avons pas besoin de votre merde.

  111. 111
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    Yes. I’m going on record. Anyone who decides to preemptively bitch about gender baiting to a brand new female poster

    She’s not brand new. We’ve had several conversations already. I am not a big fan, but I can keep an open mind on the front page assignment. But given the blatantly sexist gender baiting horseshit put out by the last female who got a front page job here, I think it’s worth mentioning.

    Are you so ridiculously scared and sensitive that my comment would actually throw you into an irrational hole like the one you just dug? You know literally NOTHING about me, or my history in real life, and you are going to declare me a “sexist asshole” for this comment above? That’s just bone ass stupid. Unbelievably stupid. Gender baiting is such a sensitive topic that it can only be broached under certain conditions, approved by you?

    I’ve been called a “bigot” for disagreeing with some LGBT posters here, an “anti semite” for challenging US loyalty to Israel here, but honestly, those absurd charges made more sense than what you are doing. But in the end it’s just good old internet rhetoric.

  112. 112
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    White male is not a default status. Just being one doesn’t preclude anyone from being willing or able to race or gender bait. So, I suggest that, in the future, if you don’t want to be considered a racist/sexist asshole, you should preemptively bitch about race or gender baiting to all white males as well. Better safe than sorry.

    That has to be spoof.

    I don’t mind being called an asshole. That is just the ante for showing up here.

    But sexist? Come on. You can’t be serious. Unless you can produce a post of mine where I referred to another male poster as “One of Our Own.” Heh.

  113. 113
    Corner Stone says:

    @eemom:

    yeah, but now that One of Our Own is a front pager she can ban your pissy little ass. Tee hee.

    I don’t even know what this means.

  114. 114
    John Bird says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    You may not want to start out your defense against charges of sexism with the assertion that you “thought it was worth mentioning” to this new front-pager because she, like the person you had a problem with, is a woman.

  115. 115
    matoko_chan says:

    @John Bird:

    have you read any of Daniel Dennett’s work in cognitive philosophy and what do you think of it?

    yeah, hes kind of ummm….populist? for me.
    i basically disagree with all the “religion is teh evull” guys.
    im actually a Dr. Atran otaku for evo theory of religion ….In Gods We Trust is awesome sauce, but quite a bit harder than Boyer or Dennett.

    John Maynard Smith– Evolution and the Theory of Games
    hard but worth it–

  116. 116
    Throwin Stones says:

    Congrats Kay!
    I’ve always enjoyed your thoughtful comments and insight into Ohio and national politics.
    Great to see you make the big league.

    ETA – Where’s Jerry playing? It’s been almost 15 years.

  117. 117
    John Bird says:

    For the record, I don’t think “race-baiting” or “gender-baiting” are really problems in the world, any more than “political correctness”. Those terms seem to consist of reifying bad behavior on the part of some individuals as a ‘trend’, conflating it with scare stories about anti-sexists or anti-racists, and delivering a package to the Republicans.

    I’m really curious though, given your posts, about the exchanges you’ve had with LGBT folks in the past here.

  118. 118
    Keith G says:

    Freekin awesome, Kay. I grew up in a “union household” in the rural flatlands of NW Ohio and cut my teeth working for the Democratic Party there and in Columbus before bugging out to Houston.

    I am looking forward to your addition to this overt and vocal cabal.

  119. 119
    Elie says:

    @valdivia:

    totally agree — great to have you as a front pager kay —

    Also good to see you again valdivia

  120. 120
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @John Bird:

    Oh no, betrayed by One Of My Own!

    ( sobs )

  121. 121
    John Bird says:

    @matoko_chan:

    Yeah, you can just say Dennett’s bestseller pap and I won’t be offended. :) He has that rep in his own discipline, for what it’s worth. I just find him an entertaining read and he has some interesting proposals for scientists, I think.

    Thanks for the Dr. Atran suggestion as well. I really enjoyed Dennett’s Breaking the Spell, which I found to be a lot less strident and, well, mission-oriented than Dawkins’ work, without abandoning Dennett’s own search for a natural explanation for religion, and for what it’s worth, my religious-but-liberal father enjoyed it as well. But I’m definitely looking for something that’s more science than Anglo-American “these are some good questions to ask” philosophy and will check out In Gods We Trust.

  122. 122
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    I don’t even know what this means.

    It means she has a crush on you.

  123. 123
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @John Bird:

    For the record, I don’t think “race-baiting” or “gender-baiting” are really problems in the world, any more than “political correctness”.

    Andrew Breitbart and Megyn Kelly would disagree with you.

  124. 124
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Well, then there is Rush Limbaugh. He has gotten rich off race and gender baiting. Filthy rich, actually.

  125. 125
    John Bird says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    Well, obviously I am talking about what’s normally known as “playing the X card” but is referred to by this poster as “X-baiting”.

    I believe in the existence of dog whistles and hell, outright racism in appeals from the right – race-baiting and gender-baiting in that sense is real, of course, and older than recorded history, I’m sure.

    I don’t believe in a festering problem where women or minorities use anti-racism and anti-sexism wantonly for their own gain.

  126. 126
    Mnemosyne says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Gender tribalism? I swear, hang around here long enough, you will see everything.

    Huh? How did you leap from “one of our own commenters” to “gender tribalism”?

    ETA: Oh, because Kay is a woman, so therefore it must be gender tribalism. Gotcha.

    I’m sensing some “gender tribalism” here, honey, but it’s not coming from Kay.

  127. 127
    Corner Stone says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: I don’t need proof of anything. And why you think I’d take DougJ’s answer about anything is unfathomable.
    Check your e-mail old timer.

  128. 128
    Jane2 says:

    Congrats, kay! Never mind the politics, though…where are your pet pics?

  129. 129
    eemom says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Holy shit, I think you’re the one who’s “gender baiting.”

    By “one of our own” I meant the group alluded to in my previous comment to CS — i.e., the group of people he’s an asshole to.

    Also let me second the observation that “preemptively” warning a female poster of gender baiting DOES reek of sexism.

    And I don’t make those accusations lightly, because I do think there is such a thing as “playing the sexist card,” which was done ad nauseum by the Jane Hamshers of the left when Hillary was runnning for president.

  130. 130
    eemom says:

    also, how did Kay’s welcome thread get hijacked by this bullshit?

  131. 131
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @John Bird:

    Well then, we should be able to agree on something.

    Suppose we take the gratuitous “sexism!” post made on the front page here recently, which stirred up the agita that you now see trickling down into this thread. The LD reference, and so forth.

    What if we backed up to that post and approached it a different way. What if that original poster had said, “Such and such happened. It could be sexism at work. Here are my reasons for thinking so: A, B, C and D. What do you all think?”

    And suppose that we had had a rational exchange on that subject. Suppose the that points of support for and against the sexism claim were given a fair hearing.

    What might have happened? Well, we all might have learned something. I might have ended up agreeing with the top poster, and her with me, on various points.

    But no, that is not what happened. What happens here is that somebody makes a statement, whether it can be supported or not, and then defends that position against all challenges no matter what, sides are taken, and if the subject is sexism or gender, you can imagine pretty well how the sides line up.

    Which is the better approach? Hers, or mine? You tell me.

    If I had seen actual evidence of any actual gender discrimination in the subject case, I’d have spoken out against it. As I do pretty much whenever an underdog is being given short shrift. That’s why, for example, I have never voted against any LGBT interest nor supported any anti-LGBT measure or action, even though I vociferously and aggressively disagree with LGBT representatives here on these pages on matters of tactics and strategy. I do the same for what I take to be women’s issues in the law and in policy.

    So, which is the better way to go? A certain front pager’s approach, or mine, as described above? You tell me.

    Yelling “sexist asshole” every time the proximity alarm goes off, or actually advancing and examining a rational position?

  132. 132
    Tone in DC says:

    The Balloon Juice commenters EAT trolls, alive and in one gulp.
    I just have to read the takedowns after the fact.

    Kay, do me favor and rip Breitbart a new one. He richly deserves this.

  133. 133
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @John Bird:

    Well, obviously I am talking about what’s normally known as “playing the X card” but is referred to by this poster as “X-baiting”.
    __
    I believe in dog whistles and hell, outright racism in appeals. I don’t believe in a festering problem where women or minorities use anti-racism and anti-sexism wantonly for their own gain.

    But that isn’t even the same thing as race-baiting. You are talking about shamelessly exploiting a perceived status of victimhood; that is something far different from race-baiting.

    What you talk about as normally being known as “playing the X” card is also commonly known as “X-baiting.” It’s not a new exotic term or anything.

    If you believe in dog whistles, you believe in race baiting. It’s that simple.

  134. 134
    licensed to kill time says:

    @eemom:

    also, how did Kay’s welcome thread get hijacked by this bullshit?

    I second that emotion.

  135. 135
    John Bird says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    I mean, thanks for not supporting anti-LGBT measures, I guess? It’s definitely a baseline you need to be a good person.

    Honestly, you started your response by begging the question so I don’t know where to go beyond reading the post/exchange you’re denigrating as “gender-baiting”. You’d have to provide a link.

  136. 136
    Corner Stone says:

    @eemom:

    also, how did Kay’s welcome thread get hijacked by this bullshit?

    Her thread about what? “Lonely in Ohio”?
    You might as well be asking what kind of cat litter she uses.

  137. 137
    Svensker says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Yelling “sexist asshole” every time the proximity alarm goes off, or actually advancing and examining a rational position?

    OK, I’ll leave off the “sexist” and just yell “asshole.” That make you happier?

  138. 138
    John Bird says:

    @Midnight Marauder:

    All I was attempting to do was respond to the poster using his own terms. Certainly, I was doing so in a limited way that doesn’t encompass how I’ve used them or seen them used in the past. I don’t think we’re disagreeing about anything past semantics, in other words.

    Honestly, though, I think what’s being hinted around here is the Hillary-Obama primary dust-up, no? For my two cents, there was racism and sexism practiced by either side in the media narratives they supported, but that’s par for the course between two white male contenders anyway.

  139. 139
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @John Bird:

    Sorry, I thought you might have seen it. Finding old things here is such a pain, I am way too lazy to look it up. It was an Annie Laurie post about, IIRC, the Consumer Protection appointment being held up in the Senate.

    A minor kerfuffle ensued over whether the sexism charge was justified or baiting.

    I have no problem with calling sexism what it is … if I can see evidence of actual sexism. Such as overt gender discrimination, or the like. But to just yell the words whenever a woman gets a bad deal …. no good. All of the two genders get bad deals, every day. If I got turned down for a job and Rush Limbaugh cried “He would have got the job if he had been a woman, those liberals are discriminating against men!” the left would be all over him. But let a woman say the same thing and reverse, and God Forbid anyone challenge the assertion. That is the way it works, like it or not. Yes?

  140. 140
    Adam Collyer says:

    Waaaaay late to the party today, but the first comment sums it up for me…

    When I heard yesterday that we would have a new female front pager, I really was hoping it was you, Kay. Now it’s confirmed!

    Looking forward to all of your front page-ness.

  141. 141
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Svensker:

    Yes, much. Thank you.

  142. 142
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Tidy Cat Instant Freshness(tm)

    God, don’t you know anything?

  143. 143
    Chat Noir says:

    I haven’t read all the comments yet but wanted to say I’m very happy to see Kay is now a front-page poster! I always enjoy your comments and look forward to reading more stuff from you. This place rocks!

  144. 144
    EFroh says:

    Congrats! Btw, when you say Ohio are you anywhere in the NW?

    *Lucas County represent!*

  145. 145
    DFH no.6 says:

    Center Right Nation.

    I hate to say it, but I believe the U.S. of A. is just that. I think it’s obviously true for the American voting public, and I believe it’s likely even more so for the population at large.

    Not so difficult to believe in a country where about half the people don’t accept evolution, and roughly the same number (maybe roughly the same people) have been snookered into believing that global climate change is a hoax. And something around half believe Obama is a socialist, fer chrissake.

    The reasons are many and complex, but here’s a very important one: much of the voting public (and even more so the population at large) is not very well informed on political topics. A corollary to that is: many (I’d say most) of our fellow citizens are quite cynical about politics and politicians.

    Now which direction do you think a country of largely un-(and mis-) informed and cynical people will lean, politically?

    That’s the boulder we have to roll up the hill. Our consolation is that it doesn’t roll all the way back down each time, so there is progress (I’m not one of the cynical ones, you see).

  146. 146
    Mnemosyne says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    All of the two genders get bad deals, every day. If I got turned down for a job and Rush Limbaugh cried “He would have got the job if he had been a woman, those liberals are discriminating against men!” the left would be all over him. But let a woman say the same thing and reverse, and God Forbid anyone challenge the assertion. That is the way it works, like it or not. Yes?

    And yet you still have presented zero evidence that Kay has done this or will do this, other than the fact that she and Anne Laurie are, uh, both women.

    But, hey, it’s not sexist for you to say all women are alike! No! You’re just making an observation that all women are alike, is all!

  147. 147
    valdivia says:

    @Elie:

    thanks Elie! I had a busy summer and then was traveling a bit. but even when I don’t comment I always lurk :)

  148. 148
    matoko_chan says:

    @John Bird: hehe, im religious but liberal. im also scient to the nth degree.
    i have negative infinity conflict between sufism and science.
    i see no reason for science and religion to be antipathic.
    your dad is my homeslice.
    ;)

  149. 149
    John Bird says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    I just don’t see a big trend of women, minorities, and left-wing supporters shouting “sexism” or “racism” when it’s not happening or it’s not worth investigating. It happens, yes, but as far as reifying it as a school of tactics, most of that seems to be a nightmare conjured up by the right rather than a real problem on the left.

  150. 150
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    you still have presented zero evidence that Kay has done this

    I never claimed she has done it. I said, I hope she doesn’t.

    No, I don’t agree that it’s sexist. It’s BJ-ist.

    I have never said, or thought, that all women are alike. If you want to talk to somebody who acts like all members of a gender are all alike, talk to Annie Laurie. Not me.

    Which brings up what is for me a more interesting question. Do you suggest that it is sexism to assert that there are traits of behavior, communication, etc common to men and common to women that are not as common to both men and women?

    For example, when a poster cries Sexism! in some political context, what are the criteria being used to determine that sexism? What is the standard? Is there a standard?

    If there is no standard, then what is the argument really about? I can just yell Sexist! any time any woman says anything derogatory about any man, and …. it sticks? Is that how this works? It’s such a touchy meter, that if I say to a woman, hey, don’t be a sexist, that makes me a sexist?

    Because, you know, this is a welcoming thread and there such fine rules of polite behavior around here? Is that the standard? The deliberate staining of a welcoming thread?

    Is this where I post the pictures of an ass boil? Or is that not done on welcoming threads either? This is such a confusing place.

  151. 151
    John Bird says:

    @matoko_chan:

    I’m an atheist myself, and certainly I don’t think that there’s a conflict between science and any system as long as it honestly seeks to have any empirical claims it makes about the universe, persons, or society verified or disproved.

  152. 152
    Ash Can says:

    Before this whole thread goes completely to hell, I want to add my own “yippee!” Great to see you on the front page, Kay. It’s a good place for you. :)

  153. 153
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @John Bird:

    I would generally agree with you on that point. If it hadn’t been for the recent Sexism! outburst in here, I probably wouldn’t have it on my mind.

  154. 154
    John Bird says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Do you understand, though, the problem in saying “I don’t think all women are alike but, because of the fact that this new front page poster is a woman as well, I wanted to express my wishes that this poster does not behave like another front page poster who is a woman”?

  155. 155
    Anne Laurie says:

    Welcome to the dunk tank front page, Kay!

    Can’t think of a Balloon Juice commentor who deserves it more.

  156. 156
    Corner Stone says:

    @Ash Can:

    Great to see you on the front page, Kay. It’s a good place for you. :)

    I agree.
    Anything that keeps her out of the comments section is a good thing.

  157. 157
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @John Bird:

    I can agree that some might find it annoying. Yes.

    The leap from that to making me out to be a rank sexist is a pretty far stretch, even for this place where, rhetorically, anything pretty much goes. Entire states full of people are labeled “scum” here over a political subject, and nobody bats an eye. So we have to put this in context.

    But we would probably disagree as to whether the fact that a gesture is annoying is a good reason not to do it. In this forum, I think that the suggestion is just silly.

    If this were a garden party over at the Rose Fancier’s Monthly Luncheon, okay, maybe. And before you call me a sexist for that remark, let me mention to you that I am quite the rose fancier and like to believe that I can grow roses better than most people I know, so …. watch it.

  158. 158
    matoko_chan says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    Do you suggest that it is sexism to assert that there are traits of behavior, communication, etc common to men and common to women that are not as common to both men and women?

    i have noticed that Juicers are a lot bio-luddite and hyperegalitarian sometimes.
    But the difference between groups is how we discover the mechanism.
    Don’t fear teh biology.

  159. 159
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Rude, but funny as hell.

    For the record, I have no prefabricated idea of what Kay brings to this assignment, one way or the other. Good, bad, or indifferent. I guess I will find out what that will be in the fullness of time.

  160. 160
    LikeableInMyOwnWay says:

    @matoko_chan:

    i have noticed that Juicers are a lot bio-luddite and hyperegalitarian sometimes.

    I wish I had written that. I will of course steal it.

  161. 161
    Corner Stone says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    For the record, I have no prefabricated idea of what Kay brings to this assignment, one way or the other. Good, bad, or indifferent. I guess I will find out what that will be in the fullness of time.

    Anyone who thought this comment was insightful needs to check their hole card.
    Conservatives want less people to vote, and liberals want more? Well knock me over with a feather!

  162. 162
    asiangrrlMN says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: Well, yes. You are being sexist by suggesting to another woman that she not be sexist. You don’t like it? Fine. I don’t need to point to another post because I can just point to that. If I said to every white male poster, don’t be an entitled, misogynistic asshat white male, that would be racist and sexist. Your focusing on only what you presume to be female sexism-baiting on not on, say, actual sexism is pretty damn sexist. The fact that you need to continue to defend yourself doesn’t speak highly for you in the least.

    Kay, welcome. Good luck. I’m out.

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay: The fact that you now say this only underscores your sexist attitude in your first post. Enjoy.

  163. 163
    V.O.R. says:

    Good to see you front-paging, Kay.

    I’m also in rural Ohio, though in a county that’s more of a blue purple than a red purple. A fact that keeps me from kicking strangers in the knees.

    But I had a Tea Party flier taped to my mailbox recently. I might allow myself just one kick.

  164. 164
    DFH no.6 says:

    @matoko_chan:
    Religious but liberal and an uber-scientist to boot?

    To me that means you must believe six impossible things before breakfast. Which is cool if that’s your thing, and certainly your prerogative.

    My life’s journey has demonstrated religion and the-can’t-be-shown-to-exist supernatural to be for children. And mankind needs very much to grow up.

    To me, studying history and current events from my insignificant little corner over here, religion seems overall to be a negative aspect of humanity, and one which — whatever one may experience on a personal level — serves mainly to keep the masses benighted and controlled.

    But then I’m with Diderot on the last king being strangled with the entrails of the last priest thing.

  165. 165
    marilyn says:

    Congratulations to you, Kay. I linked over from The Hill (if you don’t agree with us don’t bother posting) to see which juicer was buying into the right-wing center right nation frame. That link could explain the Anonymous post. Good luck to you.

  166. 166
    DFH no.6 says:

    @marilyn:

    That would be me, apparently. I’m a lifelong leftist, so it’s not like I’m happy about it or anything.

    I gave my reasons for believing our fair land to be, sadly, a center right nation up in comment #145.

    It doesn’t help in fighting the other side if you delude yourself about the ground you’re fighting on. IMAO.

    And I gave a little kick to the shins to that Anonymous dipstick in comment #105.

  167. 167
    Mnemosyne says:

    @LikeableInMyOwnWay:

    I never claimed she has done it. I said, I hope she doesn’t.

    Gosh, I hope Obama doesn’t decide to favor black people over white people. What? I’m just saying I hope he doesn’t do it!

    Which brings up what is for me a more interesting question. Do you suggest that it is sexism to assert that there are traits of behavior, communication, etc common to men and common to women that are not as common to both men and women?

    I suggest that it is sexist to look at two specific women and decide that they must think alike because they both have uteruses, so therefore you have to “warn” one not to behave the same way the other one does. Which is what you did.

  168. 168
    Ash Can says:

    Corner Stone’s just pissed cuz he wasn’t asked to be a FPer.

  169. 169
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    I suggest that it is sexist to look at two specific women and decide that they must think alike

    Whatever, but you should address that concern to somebody who has actually done that.

    If we were on a blog where somebody was posting about motorcycles, and I didn’t like the subject or it streatment, I wouldn’t be accusing a new poster of being a motorcycle hound if I requested that they don’t talk about motorcycles. I would just be making a simple request.

    Only when you introduce gender does the thing become skewed. Eh?

  170. 170
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Sorry, you lost me. I am not sure what mean here.

  171. 171
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    If I said to every white male poster, don’t be an entitled, misogynistic asshat white male, that would be racist and sexist.

    I don’t get your point. If you said that to me, I would basically say, okay, I don’t think I am prone to those attitudes. The end. Unless you were some of the hardass guys around here in which I might say something more, er, salty.

    So, what’s the problem?

  172. 172
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    @asiangrrlMN:

    On your latter point … I don’t get it.

    Don’t you think you are being a little touchy?

    Is Kay so delicate a creature that she can’t take my request for what it’s worth and ….

    Say nothing. Tell me to GFY. Say okay. Or whatever. Why does she need an army of lawyers to protect her from this egregious request?

    Seriously.

  173. 173
    Mnemosyne says:

    @DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective:

    If we were on a blog where somebody was posting about motorcycles, and I didn’t like the subject or it streatment, I wouldn’t be accusing a new poster of being a motorcycle hound if I requested that they don’t talk about motorcycles. I would just be making a simple request.

    Do you frequently try to pre-empt conversations by announcing what topics you want people to talk about in your presence before the conversation even starts?

  174. 174
    kay says:

    @DFH no.6:

    It doesn’t help in fighting the other side if you delude yourself about the ground you’re fighting on. IMAO.

    It was a joke. You and I may live in center-right areas, but I don’t believe it’s center-right in the aggregate, as “center-right” is currently defined.
    I think I can use a state as a measuring stick, depending on the state – I wouldn’t use Alaska, for example, although we have been told that Alaska is representative of some “norm”, which is just nonsense. That was a real stretch. That doesn’t mean I want them out of the Union. I just don’t think that state gives me anything useful I can extend to the country as a whole.
    I don’t think Salt Lake City is any more or less legitimate or true than San Francisco, as “real America”, more broadly. I accept that they’re both real America, necessarily, as is everywhere else in the country.

  175. 175
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    @Mnemosyne:

    First of all this is a blog, not a conversation, AFAIC. No “conversational” rules are followed here, never have been.

    It’s a free for all comments section, where every manner of salty and annoying speech are thrown about constantly.

    It is not a debate, and it is not “discourse.” Not to me, and I think the opposite view would be absurdly impossible to defend.

    And no, I don’t think it’s either unreasonable, or even unexpected, that people might chime in to a new poster what their preferences are. So what? Are you serious? Are we like little children here, or what? Cut the crap.

    Your request to preempt my preemptive request has been considered … and rejected.

    Maybe Facebook is more your speed?

  176. 176
    shortstop says:

    But no, that is not what happened. What happens here is that somebody makes a statement, whether it can be supported or not, and then defends that position against all challenges no matter what, sides are taken, and if the subject is sexism or gender, you can imagine pretty well how the sides line up.

    Except that that’s not at all what happened in that thread. What actually occurred was that pretty much everybody told Anne Laurie she was boxing shadows on this one; I recall a total of one person who thought she might be on to something, and she backed off pretty quickly. Meanwhile, Little Dreamer (whose remarkable strength of feeling is, unfortunately, not matched by her analytical skill, ability to let go of pet theories when discordant facts are presented, or willingness to get off her sophomoric self-absorption and supersized sense of personal injury long enough to hear what anybody has actually said to her) got laughed at for her hamhanded schoolmarm act and freaked out.

    That was the only thing resembling a “kerfuffle” in the thread and it had nothing to do with anyone, including Anne Laurie herself, defending the original statement of the post.

  177. 177

    @kay:

    I still think thisis a silly argument that assumes way too much coherence on the part of Americans. To put it bluntly, Americans are center-left on spending (in practice), but decidedly center-right on taxes. And because the right has spread so much bullshit about “waste” and “government spending,” they don’t see any contradiction at all; they can have all the Medicare and roads and schools they want if we just got rid of all the waste, welfare fraud, foreign aid, and kickbacks to teachers unions.

    It’s not ideology, it’s selfish rationalization.

  178. 178

    Also, at the risk of seeming overly critical, I kind of agree with the sentiment that the front page is becoming pretty crowded. Don’t really have anything more than that, because I like all of the writers, but it makes the blog harder to read when there’s a rush of posts, and definitely makes it harder to participate in comment threads.

  179. 179
    Corner Stone says:

    @Ash Can: Got me. I am the green eyed monster.
    Actually, I do have really beautiful green eyes. And am kind of a monster.

  180. 180
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    @shortstop:

    Now that you mention it, the sexism thing was handled pretty tamely. Which surprises me, given the history on this blog of denouncing gratuitous cries of sexism. Because that one was pretty much out there on a limb without an ounce of evidence, unless I missed something, which is possible.

    Apparently BJ was against gratuitous cries of sexism before it was for them. Heh.

    Ah well, now we will find out that Kay is a Harley rider and wants to post all the time about riding her hog.

  181. 181
    Corner Stone says:

    @DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective: Just saying I find kay’s “insight” dull, and not very insightful.
    Nothing to do with you other than you were waiting for the fullness of time to realize how dimwitted she is.
    That’s all.

  182. 182
    shortstop says:

    unless I missed something

    You mean in addition to missing the entire content and tenor of that thread?

    Most of your comments could be cut down by 9/10s if you learned how to gracefully — hell, or even ungraciously — back off a statement when busted lying about it. Think of all the time you could save for…whatever else you do when you’re not doing…the stuff you do.

  183. 183
    DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective says:

    @Corner Stone:

    Oh, got it. Thanks.

  184. 184
    Mnemosyne says:

    @DickSpudCouchPotatoDetective:

    It’s a free for all comments section, where every manner of salty and annoying speech are thrown about constantly.

    Except, apparently, complaints about sexism, which must be shut down immediately and compared to conversations about motorcycles. Gotcha.

  185. 185

    @Corner Stone: Suck on it buttwipe.

  186. 186
    Corner Stone says:

    @General Stuck: It’s funny that you would show up at this point. Because I liken her plodding dullness to exactly how you see things if you used a spellchecker and a bunch of extra emphasis.
    You know, kay likes to “emphasize” her words so they’ll project extra meaning.
    It adds a layer of tediousness to an otherwise mindnumbing experience.

    You on the other hand throw in some casual misspellings to add a faux folksy touch, also known as the GWB malapropism, all while saying things that are blindingly obvious.

    Kind of an odd couple, yet matched duo actually.

  187. 187

    @Corner Stone: Someone sounds bitter. Bwa haa hhahaaaha!

  188. 188
    Corner Stone says:

    @General Stuck: Unlike you, not everybody gets an erection thinking about John Cole.

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    @Corner Stone: Lame, even for you. Your tears taste like napalm in the morning.

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    burnspbesq says:

    @DFH no.6:

    “My life’s journey has demonstrated religion and the-can’t-be-shown-to-exist supernatural to be for children.”

    Oh, blow it out your ass. What is your atheism, but a naive and sentimental belief that someday science will find answers to the questions for which there are currently no answers? Which belief is more childish?

    And if I choose to lead a moral and ethical life, what concern is it of yours whether I make that choice because I believe that Jesus is the Son of God and faithfully follow his example, or because Rawls makes sense to me?

    I don’t mock your beliefs. Why do you feel empowered to mock mine?

  191. 191
    DFH no.6 says:

    @kay:

    Well, ok, a joke of sorts, I suppose. I took your post title (and second-to-last paragraph) to be a sarcasm-lite, “Center-right nation — yeah, right!”

    I’ve been following and participating in politics for nigh on 40 years now (I used to wear an onion on my belt), so I think I have a handle on what “left” “right” and “center” mean in America today.

    The right (all Republicans — every damn one — a large portion of Independents, and a not-insignificant number of Democrats) is at least a third of the voting population. I think it’s higher than that, but let’s go with a third.

    The left (not all, just a large portion, of Democrats) is not more than a quarter of the voting population. Only a very small portion of Independents are leftwing.

    The rest — another large portion of Democrats (the largest, I think), and something more than half of Independents — is the center.

    In the end, the rightwing simply outnumbers the leftwing in America (not by a lot, but by enough) so with whatever remains as the “center” this makes our country a center-right nation.

    That’s the reality of our current politics, and a significant reason why it’s easier to pass right-leaning legislation (and do rightwing foreign policy things like start wars and create empires) than it is to do left-leaning things (HCR that looks like the rest of the developed world, for instance).

    I think we will become center-left (maybe not in my lifetime) but we’re not there yet.

  192. 192
    DFH no.6 says:

    @burnspbesq:

    You don’t mock my beliefs? Really?

    Re-read your second paragraph, self-righteous one.

    And fine if you do.

    The answer to your question, “which belief is more childish?” is easy: Your belief in fairy tales.

  193. 193
    matoko_chan says:

    @DFH no.6:

    Religious but liberal and an uber-scientist to boot?

    sure, its cake.
    It helps a lot that sufism emphasizes wahdat al wujud (the unity of existance, essentialism) and approaching faana through study, meditation and dance.
    One of my shayyks, Abu Hamid Muhammed ibn Muhammed al-Ghazali said this almost a thousand years ago.

    A grievous crime indeed against religion has been committed by the man who imagines that Islam is defended by the denial of the mathematical sciences, seeing that there is nothing in revealed truth opposed to these sciences by way of either negation or affirmation, and nothing in these sciences opposed to the truth of religion.

    A lot of religious people are liberal……just not fundamentalist people or evangelical people.

  194. 194
    matoko_chan says:

    @DFH no.6:

    I think we will become center-left (maybe not in my lifetime) but we’re not there yet.

    well….its evolutionary i think.
    the savannah principle

  195. 195
    Steeplejack says:

    Here’s one thing I love find interesting about Balloon Juice. I read an innocuous post about a new front-pager. When I leave for work there are 30 or so comments of the form “We welcome our new front-page overlord overlady,” etc. Then I come home from work seven hours later to discover that the thread has metastasized to 190 comments and there are two or three separate flame wars going on. WTF?!

    Now off to read 31 through 190 . . .

  196. 196
    Steeplejack says:

    @Steeplejack:

    Look forward to reading your deep thoughts—and the yowling arguments they will spawn.

    Kay, you have some mojo. Yowling arguments in full swing already, and you have not dropped deep thought one. Kudos.

  197. 197
    DougJ says:

    Kay, welcome aboard. I’m anxiously awaiting the first post I disagree with so I can write “Who’s being naive now, Kay?”

  198. 198
    burnspbesq says:

    @DFH no.6:

    At least I believe in something that motivates me to lead a moral and ethical life. What do you believe in? Or, more specifically, how do you answer the question “why is there something, instead of nothing?” Or if you don’t like that question, try this one: how did the infinitely small, infinitely dense, infinitely hot proto-Universe that the cosmologists tell us existed just prior to the Big Bang come to be?

  199. 199
    shortstop says:

    At least I believe in something that motivates me to lead a moral and ethical life.

    I’ve never gotten why so many people of faith believe that only deism is a motivator to live a moral and ethical life. Why do you need a god to tell you to do the right thing by other people? And if you can’t behave ethically without belief in a god, why do you assume that no one else can, either?

  200. 200
    kay says:

    @DFH no.6:

    so I think I have a handle on what “left” “right” and “center” mean in America today.

    Okay, but I think I don’t have a handle. I don’t have any idea what those words mean, applied so broadly, nationally. If you told me “America is a center-left nation” I wouldn’t necessarily buy that either. I don’t approach it like that.

  201. 201
    matoko_chan says:

    @shortstop: morals and within group compassion were fitness enhancers in the EEA.
    its in the wiring.
    But the human upper tailers (at least) are aware that all of homo sapiens sapiens are our tribe.

  202. 202
    matoko_chan says:

    And i think Kay has been gracious and brave…..even tho she is likely a hairless nut of no commercial value (a buckeye).
    ;)

  203. 203
    burnspbesq says:

    @shortstop:

    Hol’ on there bucko. Show me where I said any of what you are falsely attributing to me.

  204. 204
    matoko_chan says:

    @burnspbesq:

    how did the infinitely small, infinitely dense, infinitely hot proto-Universe that the cosmologists tell us existed just prior to the Big Bang come to be?

    ooo! oooo! i can answer that!
    /waves hand frantically
    The Second Law [of Thermodynamics].
    Entropy.
    Dr. Carroll said.

  205. 205
    shortstop says:

    @burnspbesq:

    I wasn’t really attributing those thoughts to you directly so much as suggesting that they’re the natural end of your statement. However, when I reread your post, I realized that what you were probably saying was that what you believed happens to motivate you to live a moral life, not explicitly that what others believe doesn’t (although the “at least I’ve…” construction certainly implies that you may think DFH doesn’t).

    But as long as we’re talking about it, let me trim it back to this: what worldview doesn’t motivate people to live a moral life? Isn’t that the goal of everyone except the very few who willfully embrace evil while candidly recognizing that it’s evil? Even those who choose conduct generally considered unethical tend to rationalize it as virtue (“greed is good,” “this [heinous behavior] is for their own good,” “we had to destroy Iraq to save it,” etc.). So what makes your belief system any different than anyone else’s in that regard?

    And if I’m being too apples and oranges with the above, I’ll pare it down further: is there anything about being a Christian that gives you more motivation to live the generally accepted liberal principles of caring for others than an atheist liberal has?

    I’m not bulldogging you. I really would like to hear more.

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    4jkb4ia says:

    I guessed that Kay would be the new front pager. She is highly qualified.

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