Potty Training By Judith Miller and Sally Quinn

If this doesn’t make you want to throw up in your mouth, I don’t know what will:

“How could we destroy our standards by hiring a guy stupid enough to write about people that way in a public forum?” one of my friends at the Post asked me when we spoke earlier today. “I’m not suggesting that many people on the paper don’t lean left, but there’s leaning left, and then there’s behaving like an idiot.”

I gave my friend the answer he already knew: The sad truth is that the Washington Post, in its general desperation for page views, now hires people who came up in journalism without much adult supervision, and without the proper amount of toilet-training. This little episode today is proof of this. But it is also proof that some people at the Post (where I worked, briefly, 20 years ago) still know the difference between acceptable behavior and unacceptable behavior, and that maybe this episode will lead to the reimposition of some level of standards.

That’s the Atlantic’s Jeffrey Goldberg, who single-handedly wrote the absolutely most factless pieces of propaganda in the run-up to the war in Iraq this side of Judy Miller, and to my knowledge has never corrected the record in detail and atoned for his sins.

That’s the same Jeffrey Goldberg who is so incapable of forming constructive arguments that he basically spent the earlier part of the year sputtering that his co-worker Andrew Sullivan is an anti-Israeli propagandist. That is, of course, until the adults at the Atlantic probably stepped in and told him to knock it off (an assertion of mine that has at least as much evidence as Goldberg’s assertions about WMD. Although it is entirely possible he just stopped because he was losing the argument).

And we could go on and on, whether the topic is Chas Freeman, Iran, etc.

If that is the kind of bile and trash that Jeffrey Goldberg thinks makes him a refined and “toilet-trained” writer, then I can only assume that every one of the adults in his blackberry and in his rolodex still shits the bed. The rules still hold true- all sorts of disgusting and bizarre worldviews are acceptable among the “toilet-trained” Beltway elites (Krauthammer, Will, Thiessen, Kristol, and many others still write for the WaPo), but don’t drink out of the finger bowl or use a four letter word or your ass is history.

*** Update ***

Goldberg is the gift that keeps on giving:

I’ve been leaked postings from JournoList before — wonderfully charming things written about me, as you might have guessed — and I haven’t had the opportunity to use them, but would be happy to if the need arose.

Followed shortly by this:

. On the other hand, I was repulsed — really repulsed — by his invitation to Matt Drudge to kill himself. I despise violent keyboard-cowboyism…

Shorter Jeffrey Goldberg: “I’m not against using my perch at the Atlantic to publish someone’s private emails to viciously destroy their character and career, but what really bothers me is if someone makes a joke privately!”

I think that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Goldberg. I’m just done reading him. Period.

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134 replies
  1. 1
    Crusty Dem says:

    Thanks, John. I hadn’t tasted my own bile for a last 3 days..

    Seriously, I think the contempt from J Goldberg stems from the fact that Weigel broke the rules of being a useless hack by demonstrating any personal feelings whatsoever. He is also probably jealous that Weigel isn’t useless, as JG is.

    Note: I’m meta-amused that JG is using an anonymous newspaper source in a story revolving around the loss of anonymity by a newspaper reporter.

  2. 2
    Emma says:

    John, dammit, Tunch, Lily, and Rosie, right NOW! I need to get the rage under control.

  3. 3
    Erik Vanderhoff says:

    There’s a reason Goldberg doesn’t allow comments.

  4. 4
    NobodySpecial says:

    Wonder if he’s on JournoList.

  5. 5
    Sheila says:

    What is “the proper amount of toilet-training?” It is a psychological truth that coming down with an iron hand in regard to toilet-training can mess up a child for life. As in everything else, gently encouraging children to learn on their own within their own time frame is what is best for them and us. We should feel badly for Jeffrey Goldberg, as I’m sure the horrors of his nursery were considerable.

  6. 6
    Don says:

    Goldberg presumably thinks Weigel is in the wrong because he smack-talked someone in a semi-private mailing list community and not a column. Or perhaps it’s that that Weigel was insulting to someone who did him wrong first, rather than just random other folks he saw on tv.

    This is not to absolve CNN of the crime of yakking. It is still the employer of that bug Larry King, and it is home to a show I discovered a couple of Thursdays ago called Burden of Proof, which is hosted, apparently, by members of the defense bar who appear to regret the inevitable end of the O.J. Simpson saga.

    or

    Fox’s segments are hosted by distinctly unfamous people who nevertheless have their shows named after them–hence, The Cavuto Business Report, That Regan Woman, The Schneider Report, and Hannity and Colmes, the obligatory point-counterpoint show. One of them, Hannity or Colmes, is the conservative and the other is the liberal. The liberal, it seems, is the one with the pointy head–Rupert Murdoch’s way of making a statement, one guesses.

  7. 7
    JGabriel says:

    JenJen (carried over from the earlier thread on this topic):

    John Cole’s new Twitter avatar FTMFW!!

    Seconded! That new avatar is hilarious, John. I love it.

    .

  8. 8
    catclub says:

    Luckily the WaPo still has Krauthammer, Gerson, George Will,
    Bill Kristol?

    but has fired Weigel and Froomkin.

    See any pattern here?

  9. 9
    Bill Section 147 says:

    The right is moving from authoritarianism to totalitarianism.
    He didn’t publish something offensive…he thought it.

  10. 10
    John Bird says:

    But I find myself hesitant to criticize Israel these days because my words are inevitably used by people who don’t have Israel’s best interests, or the best interests of American Jews, at heart.

    This tells you what you need to know about Goldberg.

    “I would criticize Israel too, but oh my goodness, there’s all these antisemites in the world! Heavens to Betsy!”

  11. 11
    Violet says:

    Definition of toilet trained, according to WaPo and Jeffrey Goldberg: Shitting in public is okay if you’re a wingnut. Shitting anywhere, even in private, is not okay if you’re not.

  12. 12
    Ella in New Mexico says:

    How do you manage to spend so much quality time in pet-and-outdoor paradise, yet still have time to read Jeffery Goldberg’s nausea- inducing posts?

    John, you truly are an amazement. ;-)

  13. 13
    Comrade Dread says:

    The world would be better off if most of these “journalists” DIAF.

  14. 14
    sherifffruitfly says:

    This post is a good time to recall a classic Greenwald piece, on Walter Cronkite. It closes with:

    http://www.salon.com/news/opin.....8/cronkite

    “In the hours and hours of preening, ponderous, self-serving media tributes to Walter Cronkite, here is a clip you won’t see, in which Cronkite — when asked what is his biggest regret — says (h/t sysprog):

    What do I regret? Well, I regret that in our attempt to establish some standards, we didn’t make them stick. We couldn’t find a way to pass them on to another generation.

    It’s impossible even to imagine the likes of Brian Williams, Tom Brokaw and friends interrupting their pompously baritone, melodramatic, self-glorifying exploitation of Cronkite’s death to spend a second pondering what he meant by that.”

  15. 15
    SpotWeld says:

    So.. this is the journalistic parallel to “They’re not our class, dear”

  16. 16
    Hunter Gathers says:

    This whole notion of Weigel being ‘left leaning’ is beyond ridiculous. He’s a fucking libertarian for Christ’s sake. And doesn’t hide it either. But I guess saying something intemperate about a reclusive, race-baiting blogger who is still riding his 15 minutes of fame for something that happened over ten years ago makes you a DFH.

    Saying Drudge can DIAF can cost you your job.

    Tweeting a link to an article that compares Obama to Hitler makes you a GOP front runner for 2012.

  17. 17
    Midnight Marauder says:

    But also sort of a happy day at The Washington Post, for the dwindling band of writers and editors there who value such old-fashioned traits as temperance in the expression of personal views; forthrightness; and fairness.

    That’s mighty Village of you, Jeffery.

  18. 18
    El Cid says:

    When right wing shit-heels Fred Hiatt and lying, document forging ass Jackson Diehl are your editorial page editor standards of ‘liberal’, actual liberals have one less excuse to read the shit-heel paper.

  19. 19
    John Bird says:

    It’s tough to say the media is dead in the U.S., though, because it’s been at least this pathetic many times before.

    I mean, Ezra Klein is definitely completely unqualified to offer his opinion on anything other than how to drop out of college, but just imagine the “standards” for journalists – much less opinion hacks – in, say, the 19th century.

  20. 20
    ellaesther says:

    Wow. As he so often does, Goldberg leaves me speechless. Wowee zowee.

    Did I read something wrong, by the way? Was Wiegel’s comment not actually made on a private listserv (as opposed to in a “public forum”)?

    I will be honest – I am very careful about writing anything down that I wouldn’t want certain people to read. I’ll say it out loud, in the right circles, but if I write it down, especially on the intertubez, I presume that the world at large can see it, and more specifically, anyone it might be about. So I would say, by my standards, Wiegel made a rookie mistake — the sort of thing that a person with an understanding of the internet would be wiser not to do.

    But not a mistake to be fired over? A mistake that earns a Goldbergian response of this nature? Uh – no.

  21. 21
    robert green says:

    when my wife took photos of mccain that she owned per her contract with the atlantic, and turned them into political propaganda as was her right (and some might say obligation as a political artist), goldberg called her horrible names on his blog. he didn’t try to figure out what had happened or whether or not she was within her rights–he just insulted her verbally and in writing and told the magazine to sue her. later i found out why–because his hagiographic article about mccain that her work illustrated was going to be his pulitzer prize and she’d ruined that.

    he is truly the worst person in journalism. and that is saying something these days.

  22. 22
    John Bird says:

    It’s also worth noting that while no one deserves to die, in my opinion, the country would be assuredly better off without Drudge doing his “job”.

  23. 23
    slag says:

    How could we destroy our standards…

    OMG LOL!

  24. 24
    Anya says:

    This is making me sick. So the asshole is not bothered by the fact that Wiegel’s privacy was violated by the scumbag who leaked the emails, and his girl friend’s privacy was violated by the Examiner. Instead he is bothered by Wiegel saying something in private that his ilk say in public all the time. God! I hate these asshole fuckwits.

  25. 25
    El Cid says:

    I can just imagine the shit Goldberg says about Arabs, Muslims, and Palestinians in private e-mails. Oh, I forgot — you can joke about mass slaughter and ethnocide and even genocide about that sector of the world’s people and your punishment is to be featured more prominently as a foreign policy analyst.

  26. 26
    JGabriel says:

    @Erik Vanderhoff:

    There’s a reason Goldberg doesn’t allow comments.

    Because he’s a foul fucking excuse for a journalist?

    .

  27. 27
    Alex S. says:

    The matter itself and the reaction to it makes me think that the required toilet-training consists of eating shit until you like it (and passing that experience on to another generation).

  28. 28
    El Cid says:

    I think it would be cool if every now and then these workers’ high journalistic standards would actually make it into print instead of remaining within the world of their own lofty self-regard and the ass-kissing of the powerful and war-mongering.

  29. 29
    elmo says:

    Yeah. I’m not familiar with Goldberg; mostly over at the Atlantic I read TNC and Sully, occasionally McMegan for the lolz. But I was interested in the whole Weigel fiasco, so when I saw that he had posted something I clicked over.

    OMFG WTF BBQ. It was like wading in vomit. What a nasty, snide, preening douchebag.

  30. 30
    Tom Hilton says:

    How does a private list get described as “semi-public”?

    Oh, wait…Jeffrey Goldberg. Never mind.

  31. 31
    Rosalita says:

    @JGabriel:

    ROFLOL!!! Jeez, I step away from Twitter for five whole minutes

  32. 32
    handy says:

    @John Bird:

    Jeffrey Goldberg, Profile in Courage.

  33. 33
    slag says:

    @El Cid:

    I think it would be cool if every now and then these workers’ high journalistic standards would actually make it into print instead of remaining within the world of their own lofty self-regard and the ass-kissing of the powerful and war-mongering.

    Yes. Indeed.

    Failing to live up to the profession’s ass-kissing standard is pretty much the only journalism firing offense I’m aware of.

  34. 34
    El Cid says:

    @slag: Weigel was awful with a super-soaker, and he never could quite master the art of dancing with Karl Rove.

  35. 35
    Erik Vanderhoff says:

    @JGabriel:

    Well, I was going to say “person” not journalist, but yeah.

  36. 36
    slag says:

    @El Cid: Or sending Rove electronic love notes.

    Speaking of…I wonder when Goldberg’s going to go after his new National Journal editor for ruining his own reputation by writing such irresponsible emails.

    I’m on the edge of my seat!

  37. 37
    kay says:

    Oh, good. Another opportunity for “the professionals” to pat themselves on the back.

    We really don’t hear enough from media about how great they are. I, for one, can’t get enough of these self-aggrandizing screeds. Luckily, there’s about one a week, so I don’t have to worry.

    “How could we destroy our standards by hiring a guy stupid enough to write about people that way in a public forum?”

    What are their standards? Does anyone know?

  38. 38
    Johio says:

    Ok, I’ve apparently spent way too much time reading this blog. I saw Goldberg’s article and sent him an email comparing him to Sally Quinn and then flip back over here to see John’s headline. Makes me wonder who his “friend” at the Post was. Is Quinn still employed there?
    I find myself wishing they’d fire Gene Robinson and Klein so that I no longer have to go to their site at all.

  39. 39
    Dave C says:

    Oh sweet Jesus, you simply have to read his follow up post in which his anonymous WAPO journalist friends do some additional trash-talking:

    “This is not just sour grapes about the sudden rise of these untrained kids, though I have to think that some people in the building resent them for bypassing the usual way people rise here. This is really about the serial stupidity of allowing these bloggers to trade on the name of the Washington Post.”

    “It makes me crazy when I see these guys referred to as reporters. They’re anything but. And they hurt the newspaper when they claim to be reporters.”

    “Ezra Klein is a talented guy, but he’s just an absolute partisan. If this is where journalism has to go, so be it, but I don’t want to go there.”

    “The lack of toilet-training is right. Everyone makes mistakes, but you can mitigate the number of mistakes through seasoning. Some people here are still put through seasoning, but others aren’t. It shows, and it’s embarrassing.”

    If there is any justice in the world, Ezra will– in his typical calm and devastating style–absolutely destroy JG and his friends for this ridiculous, cowardly bullshit.

  40. 40
    jl says:

    I think it is very important that newspaper almanack writers and other ink stained periodical vermin produce vituperation and insult that conforms to a high minded and proper style, so it can be used for the edification of our precious youth.

    The Wiegel feller failed that test.

    Observe:

    “That ass, Blossom, of the Higginsville Thunderbolt and Battle Cry of Freedom, is down here again sponging at the Van Buren.”

    “The heaven-born mission of journalism is to disseminate truth; to eradicate error; to educate, refine, and elevate the tone of public morals and manners, and make all men more gentle, more virtuous, more charitable, and in all ways better, and holier, and happier; and yet this blackhearted scoundrel [editor] degrades his great office persistently to the dissemination of falsehood, calumny, vituperation, and vulgarity.”

    Journalism In Tennessee
    Mark Twain

    http://www.readbookonline.net/readOnLine/1562

    If you can’t observe that high standard, then the proper course is to be a pompous, self-righteous, bombastic CYAing bore, who runs with the powerful in all ways big and small for self-protection, for example, the illustrious writers mentioned in the post.

  41. 41
    Dave C says:

    @Dave C:

    I dunno why, but I can’t seem to get the blockquoting right. Everything except the first and last line should be in blockquoted.

  42. 42
    JGabriel says:

    John Bird:

    Ezra Klein is definitely completely unqualified to offer his opinion on anything other than how to drop out of college …

    Huh? Klein has his degree, though I’m not sure it would be a legitimate point of criticism even if he did not.

    Wikipedia:

    Klein was born [1984] in Irvine, California, where he attended University High School. He attended the University of California, Santa Cruz but later transferred to the University of California, Los Angeles, from which he graduated in 2005 with a B.A. in political science.

    Since Klein got his degree at the age of 21, there doesn’t seem to be any time when he could have dropped out. Indeed, he graduated a year younger than most – though I don’t know if that’s because he started early or finished early.

    .

  43. 43
    Shalimar says:

    Weigel’s mistake was actually apologizing. He has covered right-wingers long enough to know they see that as weakness and go for the kill. What you’re supposed to do in that situation is issue one of those “I’m sorry idiots misunderstood my words” apologies that Republicans love.

  44. 44
    jl says:

    @Dave C: I think there is some truth to the idea that certain low bloggers have been let into the club, and been allowed to ‘trade on the name of the Washington Post’ without earning the right.

    Has Wiegel been guilty of conflict of interest? has he been subborned by powerful interests? Has he covered up other writers’ hackery and dishonesty? Has he demonstrated requisite bad faith or double standards? Has he granted special favors, committed outrageous special pleading. Has he weaseled, and weaseled well and long?

    I think not. Be gone with the peasant. It is not his place, and he trashed it.

    Time for blogger ethics panel.

  45. 45
    slag says:

    @Dave C: This is just getting more and more hilarious. Especially after this comment:

    How could we destroy our standards by hiring a guy stupid enough to write about people that way in a public forum?

    Maybe it’s the meaning of the phrase “public forum” we’re differing on here?

  46. 46

    @Dave C: “The usual way people rise”? Does that mean fucking Ben Bradlee?

  47. 47
    bobbo says:

    but don’t drink out of the finger bowl or use a four letter word while being to the left of David Broder or your ass is history.

    fixed

  48. 48
    Tom Hilton says:

    It goes without saying, but I’ll say it anyway: the views expressed by Jeffrey Goldberg in his public blog post are far more shameful than anything Dave Weigel ever said in private.

  49. 49
    fucen tarmal says:

    anyone see, or read that david brooks to the time out of his golf regimen to be furious at the rolling stone? the timing is impeccable. how dare they print on the record stuff?

  50. 50
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Dave C: Wow. Talk about sour grapes.

    “Ezra Klein is a talented guy, but he’s just an absolute partisan. If this is where journalism has to go, so be it, but I don’t want to go there.”

    If journalism “has to go” in the direction of well-informed and wonkish writing and you don’t want to go there as a journalist, then you can go DIAF.

    Fuckers.

  51. 51
    silentbeep says:

    @Shalimar: bingo. he never should have apologized for anything. As soon as he did he admited “wrongdoing” and they went in after him. He never did anything wrong and worth apologizing over IMHO

  52. 52
    bobbo says:

    @JGabriel:

    What Ezra didn’t finish was law school.

  53. 53

    Essentially, the WaPo showed that it was far less honorable and intelligent than Dave Weigel. Weigel was fired — erm, made to resign — for the sin of not being crazy.

  54. 54
    JGabriel says:

    @bobbo: Ah, thanks for the info. Still seems like a fairly petty and inaccurate criticism.

    .

  55. 55
    slag says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    If journalism “has to go” in the direction of well-informed and wonkish writing and you don’t want to go there as a journalist, then you can go DIAF.

    DIAF? You’ll never make it in the journalism biz with that kind of language. But talk like this to Karl Rove:

    “The Lord creates men and women like this all over the world. But only the great and free countries allow them to flourish. Keep up the fight.”

    And you can be editor some day!

  56. 56

    Also, Daily Caller has a bunch of new e-mails from Weigel, disparaging everybody from Rush Limbaugh to Newt Gingrich. I hadn’t seen these yet because the DC’s servers had been down for much of the morning.

    Further evidence of Mr. Weigel’s unpardonable sins. I mean trashing Rush Limbaugh. Prolly caused Fred Hiatt to soil his self. Who will be the first to apologize to the Great White Whale for this inhumanity to real Murrikans?

  57. 57
    tomvox1 says:

    Who doesn’t wish for Drudge to set himself on fire? For that matter, who doesn’t wish for Erick Erickson to shit into Jonah Goldberg’s lying, hypocritical mouth? Not to advocate these things amongst friends would be the abnormal thing…

  58. 58
    JGabriel says:

    … new e-mails from Weigel, disparaging everybody from Rush Limbaugh to Newt Gingrich.

    Quick! Give me some pearls to clutch before I faint dead away!

    (Author swoons and crumbles — from the shock.)

    .

  59. 59
    Luthe says:

    Oh how I wish Spider Jerusalem existed, so that he could teach these asses about both journalism *and* toilet-training. I can think of quite of list of people who could use being zapped by a bowel disruptor set to “Prolapse.”

  60. 60
    Sentient Puddle says:

    And now Ezra is shutting down JournoList. I hope you fuckers are happy.

    Interesting side note, Ezra says Tucker Carlson attempted to join a few weeks before The Daily Caller published those emails. Feel free to draw your own implications.

  61. 61
    Redshirt says:

    Klein was born in 1984?! Good Lordy, I’m old.

  62. 62
    JGabriel says:

    tomvox1:

    For that matter, who doesn’t wish for Erick Erickson to shit into Jonah Goldberg’s lying, hypocritical mouth?

    Jeebus, it’ll be weeks before I can scrub that image from my mind. Gross.

    Besides, how would that even work, what with Erickson’s ass already filled by his own head?

    .

  63. 63
    KevinD says:

    Meanwhile, there are some journalists who remember what their jobs are really about.

  64. 64
    tomvox1 says:

    @tomvox1:

    Same goes for Jeffrey. They both should eat shit, of course. LOL.

  65. 65
    Sigh says:

    Wait, so Jeffrey Goldberg thinks he’s impressive because he’s been taught when and where to produce excrement?

  66. 66
    Randy P says:

    @Dave C: Ancient Balloon Juice lore says that if you put two underscores instead of a blank line between paragraphs, the whole thing gets quoted.

    Sometimes that works for me, sometimes not. There may be pentagrams and runes involved also that I’m not aware of.

  67. 67
    Xero says:

    @Redshirt:

    Klein was born in 1984?! Good Lordy, I’m old.

    Ha, that’s the year I graduated High School. Ugh, makes me feel older than I am.

  68. 68

    Don’t forget Goldberg’s infamous hit job on Walt and Mearshimer in TNR, if it hasn’t been mentioned yet.

  69. 69
    Dave C says:

    @Randy P:

    Hahaha! Thanks!

  70. 70
    Capn America says:

    God, if there is a God out there, I’m begging you: please let Jeffrey Goldberg’s private emails, where he inevitably refers to Arabs as sand ni**ers and sheep-fuckers and lizard people, be leaked to the press.

  71. 71
    Warren Terra says:

    @Sentient Puddle
    That Ezra Klein post is heartbreaking. Needless to say, most of the comments to it are pure slime, including a couple by one of Weigel’s troll’s.

  72. 72
    Napoleon says:

    @Xero:

    I was in law school by then, and my step son is only 2 years younger then him,

  73. 73
    Sentient Puddle says:

    As for Ezra’s age, I’m actually a few months younger than him, so I don’t feel old. But he sure makes me feel like I’m a goddamned failure at life.

  74. 74
    rilkefan says:

    “until the adults at the Atlantic stepped in and told him to knock it off”

    Is there some substantiation for this claim? I’m not seeing any at the link.

    Sad to see Goldberg being this stupid about Weigel, though.

  75. 75
    licensed to kill time says:

    @Randy P:

    Ancient Balloon Juice lore says that if you put two underscores instead of a blank line between paragraphs, the whole thing gets quoted.
    __
    Sometimes that works for me, sometimes not

    Make sure there’s no indentations on the first line of each paragraph. WP reads that as an empty line and will spill it out of the blockquote box.

    Just to make life even more complicated.

  76. 76
    elmo says:

    @Xero:

    Me, too. Sad, isn’t it?

  77. 77
    Third Eye Open says:

    @Luthe:

    Transmetropolitan might be one of the best written graphic novels since Sand Man. I had heard some brouhaha went down with the movie interpretation. I am glad that some slimy producer didn’t get his chance to fuck-up the greatness of that series.

  78. 78
    liberal says:

    @Brien Jackson:
    How could it be infamous?

    Expecting TNR to produce a hit on M+W after their stuff came out is like expecting the sun to rise tomorrow.

  79. 79
    DonkeyKong says:

    “We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won’t allow them to write “fuck” on their airplanes because it’s obscene!”-Col. Kurtz

    “OH BOY A PONY! OF COURSE I’LL WRITE FOR YOU DAVID BRADLEY!!!!” -Jeff “no poopies on the floor no sir” Goldberg

  80. 80
    TuiMel says:

    @Dave C:

    If there is any justice in the world, Ezra will—in his typical calm and devastating style—absolutely destroy JG and his friends for this ridiculous, cowardly bullshit.

    I am not very familiar with this story, but I did some cursory skipping around the Web to see if I wanted to learn more. I don’t. But, the little bit I did read indicates to me that envy is the driving emotion here. Goldberg can blather on about seasoning and potty training, but he comes across as J.E.A.L.O.U.S. I don’t know who he is and I’ve never read anything by him until today. Not so Ezra and Dave Weigel. He is eaten up by being passed by people who have exploited the “new” media better than he. I think this is all about long knives, and my disgust for the Villagers grows. I did not think that was possible.

    I also read that Erza is shutting down Journolist. The OutGroup will sigh with relief that they have destroyed the InGroup. In my mind this is a big helping of Who TF Cares, but I am sure there is satisfaction being felt by those who felt scorned due to lack of membership. I could find more maturity in the local middle school cafeteria than in all of the Village press corps.

  81. 81
    John Cole says:

    @rilkefan: I’m using Goldberg’s standard in the New Yorker Iraq pieces- substantiation is unnecessary if you really think your speculations are right.

    Besides, everyone knows you can say whatever you want in print. It’s when you joke with your private emails that you have to be careful.

  82. 82
  83. 83
    bobbo says:

    @JGabriel:

    I agree.

  84. 84

    […] 2010 Toilet Trained and Dumb Posted by curv3ball under Uncategorized Leave a Comment  Jeffrey Goldberg on the firing of Dave Wiegel for what are, self evidently, bullshit reasons: The sad truth is that […]

  85. 85
    R-Jud says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    But he sure makes me feel like I’m a goddamned failure at life.

    Yeah, he’s as old as my younger sister. I grit my teeth whenever people mention him. And then keep scribbling away.

  86. 86
    rilkefan says:

    Thanks for the explanation, John. I remember when I didn’t have to do decoding like this to read you – one reason I stopped, actually. Anyway I’ll send Goldberg an email telling him he’s being an idiot.

  87. 87
    fucen tarmal says:

    @Shalimar:

    by die in a fire i meant if drudge doesn’t open himself to the holy spirit and accept jesus h christ, retired, as his savior before the end of days? sort of a riff on the left behind thing.. that could have worked…bless drudge’s heart.

  88. 88

    @John Bird:

    I disagree. i can think of several people who deserve to be dead, and for who not a single person would weep one single tear.

  89. 89
    Xenos says:

    @bobbo:

    What Ezra didn’t finish was law school.

    And these days that is no sin at all… just good judgment.

  90. 90
    eemom says:

    From what I’ve read (including Ezra, who one expects would know), there’s no indication Wiegel was “forced” to resign.

    Am I the only one who thinks it was kind of chickenshit of him to do so? Why did he let the assholes win?

  91. 91
    Capn America says:

    @eemom:
    Yeah, he should have spent all weekend listening to hate-filled phone calls directed at him, his girlfriend, and his editor, and then shown up at work on Monday to be dressed down in front of the entire office. That’s what he should have done.

  92. 92
    pseudonymous in nc says:

    Jeff ‘putting the “ho” in “free horses for your kids”‘ Goldberg?

  93. 93
    IM says:

    It is a a bit much to demand of Weigel to fight. He probably figured out that his bosses would hang him out to dry. In this situation a quick end is more merciful.

    Of course the Wapo could still say that they don’t accept his resignation. On the 31. Februar or so.

  94. 94
    John Cole says:

    @rilkefan: Ehh- I added a probably for you..

  95. 95
    Silver says:

    Goldberg is just a cunt, isn’t he?

    Ponies!

  96. 96
    Midnight Marauder says:

    @Capn America:

    Yeah, he should have spent all weekend listening to hate-filled phone calls directed at him, his girlfriend, and his editor, and then shown up at work on Monday to be dressed down in front of the entire office. That’s what he should have done.

    I could be wrong here, but I believe those are the kinds of results that typically happen when people actually practice journalism.

    Especially at The Washington Post.

  97. 97
    eemom says:

    Maybe that stuff would have happened, maybe not. Unless you people are WaPo insiders, how would you know?

    Besides, what the hell ever happened to fighting for what’s right? I don’t know what kind of contract Weigel has, but I don’t see how this kind of witchhunt bullshit could be cause for firing him.

  98. 98
    Capn America says:

    @Midnight Marauder:
    I’m not 100% sure about this, but Weigel came from the world of finance and Wall Street, so I think he actually has a bit of money saved up and does journalism mostly for fun (or love?). If you were a widely-respected reporter like him, then suddenly been attacked from all sides because someone clearly has it out for you and has been digging through your past emails to find “inflammatory” statements, do you really go through the inevitable Froomkin-ization at the Post or do you say fuck it, I’m leaving with my dignity intact, and going somewhere where I’ll be appreciated?

  99. 99
    rilkefan says:

    “Ehh- I added a probably for you.. ”

    Hey thanks, I’ll change that post on my blog about you telling me that you blow goats to say you probably said that, or maybe that you said you probably blow goats but aren’t sure.

  100. 100
    Zuzu's Petals says:

    @Napoleon:

    I was in law school then, too. Of course I was 34 years old.

  101. 101
    maus says:

    @brendancalling: Maybe it’s the Seattle passive-aggression getting to me, but in “polite” society, the person who directly calls a douchebag/sociopath a douchebag/sociopath always looks worse than the person doing ill-action.

    Isn’t that modern society? The veneer of “nice” over function and allowing the people with personality disorders to run all over ruining people.

  102. 102

    […] Goldberg.   To see a guy who draws a very nice salary despite printing demonstrable falsehoods as […]

  103. 103
    asiangrrlMN says:

    OK. Time to take the toys and go home. The right wins the media. Consolation prize: They still don’t technically control government.

  104. 104
    Mary says:

    @John Cole: My speculation about why Goldberg stopped his attacks on Sullivan is that Goldberg was losing the debate, badly, and Goldberg realized that he was in danger of publicly exposing his laziness, his prejudices and his inferior intellect.

    If I recall, Goldberg would do a post amounting to a paragraph at most (and that would be it for his day) attacking Sullivan’s arguments based solely on the premise that he knows better than Sullivan. Sullivan would then in short order produce a lengthy, meticulously researched piece proving Goldberg wrong. Goldberg couldn’t keep up, so he quit.

    Goldberg may be potty-trained (actually he looks rather constipated to me) but he doesn’t hold a candle to the likes of Sullivan or Klein in the brainpower department. I don’t know about Weigel’s brainpower but he sure was funny and irreverent. I loved him.

    Whatever they are paying Goldberg over at the Atlantic, it is too much. I cannot imagine that he has not been extremely disappointing to David Bradley as a bad hire. He had to abandon his planned role as interlocutor for Netanyahu because he botched it from the start and was widely ridiculed. He ran away from the high-profile debate with Sullivan on extremely important issues which are supposed to be his singular focus. He produces almost no work. No wonder he wants to spend his days as the proprietor of Politics and Prose. He clearly has the time for it.

    And for Goldberg to put up material decrying Klein for his partisanship as if Goldberg is not hyper-partisan on his sole issue is just laughable. Finally, Goldberg, not having a subtle bone in his body, appears to have outed himself as a cog in a plot to take down the so-called Juice Box Mafia (and other heretics) by piling on with Weigel and then going after Klein like he did.

  105. 105
    maus says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    And now Ezra is shutting down JournoList. I hope you fuckers are happy.

    Good, while I’m sure many of them are good people, the field they work in is flooded with the douchebags that consider these uneventful private conversations “news”.

    @rilkefan:

    Hey thanks, I’ll change that post on my blog about you telling me that you blow goats to say you probably said that, or maybe that you said you probably blow goats but aren’t sure.

    I don’t see anything wrong with wanting things to be better sourced, but why does this particular “unsubstantiated theory” evoke such a response?

  106. 106
    maus says:

    @Mary:

    Whatever they are paying Goldberg over at the Atlantic, it is too much.

    I don’t get how conservatives can get paid to say the same things over and over again. I mean, they only vary based on how they look (short, fat, skinny, blonde, asian, black) but the ideas are the same. I guess, like Beck and his chalkboard they might include some other gimmicks, but the worldview and execution is the same.

    How are there so many people employed to say the exact things?

  107. 107
    John Cole says:

    @rilkefan: In fairness, I have never denied blowing goats.

    But, you know what. You are right. If someone else was stating that as fact without evidence, I’d be pissed and call them on it, so I was being a hypocrite. I’ve updated it to note that it is an blind guess and I have no evidence for it.

  108. 108
    HeavyJ says:

    Dig it:

    “I despise violent keyboard-cowboyism.”

    Yes, I can tell:

    “In five years, however, I believe that the coming invasion of Iraq will be remembered as an act of profound morality.”

  109. 109

    @John Cole:

    I’ve updated it to note that it is an blind guess and I have no evidence for it.

    an good gesture.

  110. 110
    mclaren says:

    Jeez. Why did you ever read that putz Goldberg?

    That’s like listening to Limbaugh…who does that, except the lunatic fringe?

  111. 111
    silentbeep says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    “But he sure makes me feel like I’m a goddamned failure at life. ”

    Exactly! I am 7 years older than him. Most people my age (in my early thirties), even in his line of work, haven’t done half the things he has done.

  112. 112
    paperbagmarlys says:

    My opinion of Goldberg is neither here nor there. There are plenty of bad journalists out there. I can read other journalists. My complaint about Goldberg is that American Journalism not only takes him seriously but he’s at the top of his profession. He’s been showered with awards for the last ten years. (For example, In the Party of God, his hopelessly misleading NYer article about Hezbollah in the Americas, is included in The Best American Magazine Writing 2003.) His career has soared as he’s continued to churn out very dodgy work. Yup, lots of bloggers have pointed out, at great length, that Goldberg is inaccurate and misleading but I can’t see that the complaints have had any effect on Goldberg, his editors, or his employers. I don’t think his peers and editors are stupid, they read his stuff and, doh, they really, really like it. That’s a much bigger problem than Goldberg.

  113. 113

    @tomvox1:

    Who doesn’t wish for Drudge to set himself on fire?

    Set himself on fire? Dude’s been “flaming” for years, ifyouknowwhatimean….

  114. 114

    I despise violent keyboard-cowboyism…

    Writing rank dishonest propaganda to pimp a war I want the US to fight, on the other hand…

  115. 115
    LD50 says:

    Shorter Jeffrey Goldberg: “I’m not against using my perch at the Atlantic to publish someone’s private emails to viciously destroy their character and career, but what really bothers me is if someone makes a joke privately!” I think that pretty much sums up everything you need to know about Goldberg. I’m just done reading him. Period.

    Look at the bright side. It could be Jonah Goldberg.

  116. 116
    paperbagmarlys says:

    No one confuses Jonah Goldberg with a journalist. And, he doesn’t win awards for his reporting or publish in the NYer.

  117. 117
    Jared says:

    His behavior in the Sullivan spat convinced me Jeff Goldberg is a jerk, but he did pull back a bit on Weigel here.

  118. 118
    rilkefan says:

    Hey John, I was wrong, you still rock. Thanks.

  119. 119
    paperbagmarlys says:

    I dunno if I’d call this “pulling back”:

    “…I despise violent keyboard-cowboyism, and not only because I’ve received various invitations over the years to kill myself, or let myself be killed, because I’m a supporter of Israel, or because I support the Kurds in their struggle against Saddam, or because I supported the invasion of Iraq (mainly because I’m a supporter of Israel, actually)…”

    Wow. Yes, I’d say that sums up Goldberg.

  120. 120
    fordpowers says:

    who is jonah goldberg??? should i know?

  121. 121
    Robert Waldmann says:

    Most interesting. Journolist is not a public forum. Goldberg, however, is writing on a public forum. He is being very rude and very mildly scatalogical. However, it’s ok if you aren’t attacking conservatives. This episode, like many before it, shows that the Post is terrified of Conservatives.

    Notice his un-named correspondent considers Wiegel’s problem close “leaning left.” He or she would argue that the point is that Wiegel’s problem was not leaning left, but rather behaving like an idiot. However, the context makes it clear that “behaving like an idiot” is a excessive or improper form of leaning left. The implied view is that one can’t get in trouble at the Post for behaving like an idiot without leaning left. Of course this is true. Marc Thiesen, Charles Kruthammer George Will (not regularly an idiot but an idiot when refusing to admit that his false claim on sea ice cover was false).

  122. 122
    Mike says:

    “I despise violent keyboard-cowboyism…”

    But he obviously loves real violence. To the point where he is willing to lie, distort and cheerlead to get the country into a war leading to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

    keyboard violence=bad

    blowing people to bits for real=a good thing

    This is the mindset of Jeffrey Goldberg and the entire DC media elite. This is why David Broder admitted that he was more offended with Clinton’s lies about his sex life that Bush’s lies that led to the deaths of countless innocent people.

    This is how this group of people think. Sure Marc Thiessen wrote a book filled with lies and is an apologist for war crimes and torture. But he uses the right fork at the dinner table.

    Sure Sally Quinn is a faux moralist slut. But she knows the proper dinner etiquette.

  123. 123
    not a fan says:

    you guys are fucking insane. Ya, your the “smart” ones.

  124. 124
    ezdidit says:

    journolist was a private listserv for plain talk among reporters & cognoscenti.

    But Republican talking points cannot stand up to scrutiny. So Tucker Carlson, the least among many, who had asked to join, but was denied, surreptitiously logged in & ruined Weigel’s reputation thus forcing Ezra to close it all down.

    Screw Carlson wherever possible, and f**k the distractions. Jeff Goldberg is just another petty tool. Screw yourselves, Republicans. You cannot be trusted with power ever, ever again.

    And Goldberg: clean up your act. Your line of crap is getting old.

    ECCE WaPo, ever stenographer for the villagers.

  125. 125
    JohnC says:

    @not a fan:

    Ya, your the “smart” ones.

    “Our the ‘smart’ ones” what? You need to finish your sentences, little troll…

  126. 126
    Richard Johnson says:

    If you broadcast something to four hundred people, including strangers, it’s not something you said in private. If you operate under the delusion that it is, you’re going to get burned. And no, nobody’s actually going to feel the least bit of guilt about you getting burned by your own stupidity in broadcasting a “private” message to four hundred people.

  127. 127
    Jenny says:

    And where were your lot before this crop came along, and in all candor, some of them are your lot.. seriously..

    As someone who defended the media, kept the faith despite how it was almost impossible to ignore the disconnect and disinterest you all displayed. How dare you, you pretentious bunch of hacks! You aren’t any better. You’re a bunch of junior fascists, who treat the concept of a free press like a joke.

    Frankly, no one was surprised that Excrement Klein was up to creating a list that he sought to use to corral and control what was and wasn’t written. You want to infer your lot is better, why were you so silent in the face of it? We, and I mean everyone was well aware of what was going on, on it.

    Your lot are on the take from the highest bidder, you’re crass hypocrites. Tell me, when you were starting out, was your big dream to emulate the “journalists” who found Hitler, Mussolini and their ilk, inspirational, or who were too in the tank to care what should have been patently apparent to anyone with a sense of history.

    The vast majority of the citizenry, and that includes those you consider beneath you, have been intelligent enough to cease trusting the media, starting back in the ’80s, and we’ve only increased our numbers over time. So, sit in your circle jerks, whinge away, but it doesn’t change the fact that you’re irrelevant. So propagandize away for your masters, provide cover for their Trojan horses, provide lip service, and straw men arguments, we simply no longer care, no one is listening to you.

  128. 128
    Moira says:

    Yeah Jenny! I couldn’t have said it better!

  129. 129
    John Cole says:

    @Jenny: This made no sense whatsoever.

  130. 130
    Bordo says:

    I think Jenny forgot to take her medicine.

  131. 131
    Gloria5 says:

    @Sheila:

    “As in everything else, gently encouraging children to learn on their own within their own time frame is what is best for them and us…”

    This is the opposite of truth, especially in teaching kids. This ideology is why our kids don’t know much.

  132. 132

    […] I think this counts as the last word on the Dave Weigel foolishness at the potty-trained WaPo, and truly the […]

  133. 133
    Joy Reid says:

    Game, set, and match.

  134. 134

    […] had the opportunity to use them, but would be happy to if the need arose.” This prompted a John Cole to denounce Goldberg (publicly, on his blog) for his willingness to use his “perch at the […]

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  3. […] Goldberg.   To see a guy who draws a very nice salary despite printing demonstrable falsehoods as […]

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