Blogosphere Update

Tons of people unoffended by torture, indefinite detainment, permanent war, outing of CIA agents, and many other things getting the vapors about Dave Weigel’s private email comments.

Also, the person who leaked private emails can die in a fire. And spare me the “nothing on the internet is private” nonsense. Of course it isn’t- because you have scumbags like this. I remained on a number of conservative email lists after my party switch, read all sorts of stuff that many would find horribly offensive, and it never ONCE occurred to me to publish them with people’s names attached in an attempt to destroy them. Whoever did that has no honor or shame.






125 replies
  1. 1

    There is water in the blood out there in the ethers. I am just glad to be a nobody.

  2. 2
    Poopyman says:

    Well put. It never ceases to amaze me the amount of kerchief-wringing and swooning that goes on at the smallest slight to some rightwing cretin. (Apologies to cretins everywhere.) And Drudge certainly fits the bill.

    I wonder if BJ’s DIAF meme prompted his comment?

  3. 3
    Redshirt says:

    I think this is the traditional Wingnut distraction technique. Torture, suspension of the Constitution, etc, no big deal. Some small slight that you can scream bloody murder about? BIG DEAL. General Betrayus, ad infinitum.

  4. 4

    It certainly does appear to be a calculated attempt to destroy his career… though I don’t imagine it will work. Loathsome indeed.

  5. 5
    Hugin & Munin says:

    I thought that I remembered that we weren’t going to speak of this.

  6. 6
    john b says:

    “I wonder if BJ’s DIAF meme prompted his comment? ”

    i think you give bj a little too much credit. this existed long before its meme status on BJ.

  7. 7
    Xero says:

    Weigel writes an apology in the WaPo, for maybe offending some winger attention-whore, meanwhile, elected representatives are free to compare the POTUS to Hitler, and joke about the POTUS’ birth certificate on the floor of the House with little, if any, blowback.

  8. 8
    The Tragically Flip says:

    Does anyone have a list of who is currently on Journolist so we can all meet our responsibility to speculate?

    This isn’t the first time stuff has been leaked off there and as I recall loosely from the last time, there are some actual likely suspects.

  9. 9
    matoko_chan says:

    DIAF, like nearly all good things, came from WoW.
    its a reference to standing in fire, the major cause of n00b death.

    i have plenty of those emails.
    i was John Derbyshires BFF.

  10. 10
    Jinchi says:

    Also, the person who leaked private emails can die in a fire.

    I’m sure he’ll be convicted of identity theft and face 20 years in prison like the guy who hacked Sarah Palin’s email account.

  11. 11
    JenJen says:

    Just now catching up on this story. Ugh.

    I happen to agree with Weigel that Matt Drudge might want to set himself on fire. But yeah, I’m with you, Cole, about whomever leaked the emails. I’m sure the right wing isn’t too happy about Weigel, and on the surface it does seem like a deliberate attempt to hurt his career.

    @matoko_chan: Eeeeek!!

  12. 12
    Stephen1947 says:

    If there’s one thing that contemporary “conservatives” can’t stand, it’s conservatives who operate from principle, at least occasionally. That’s why Weigel has a target on his back. Same is true of David Frum (I added the ‘at least occasionally’ so as to be able to include Frum).

  13. 13
    Erik Vanderhoff says:

    Uh, aside from the Drudge quote, none of those quotes are the slightest bit inflammatory (hee, couldn’t resist!).

  14. 14
    tim says:

    Sorry, John, I completely disagree. Insidery beltway village shit like journolist are a HUGE reason why the MSM doesn’t tend to tell us what is REALLY going on. They are far too chummy with government types and with each other, and enjoy keeping the juicy stuff to themselves; makes them feel SPECIAL, don’t you know.

    So…I think whomever leaked Weigel’s snark is a hero. I would love to see a lot more leaks of such material, whether it comes from libs or cons or anyone in between.

    I know: god forbid we peons should be allowed to know what the information gate keepers REALLY think…it might fuck up their fake public personae.

    P.S. Weird that THIS is the kind of thing that gets you worked up and wishing people dead of horrendous injuries. Who gives a fuck if some media prima donna who likes being part of a secret club gets outed with his bullshit?

  15. 15
    daveNYC says:

    WoW? No. ‘Die in a car fire’ has been around for much longer than WoW. DIAF is just a variation.

    While leaking the email is a dick move, and I totally agree that straight up person to person emails are private, I’m not sure how much expectation of privacy one should expect from a listserv. Sure it’s supposed to be off the record, but exactly how off the record is it when you’re sending an electronic copy of your thoughts to however many people are on the list (30?). Not saying his email should have been leaked, just saying that people are broken.

  16. 16
    matoko_chan says:

    @JenJen: yeah.
    this is my favorite part.

    Political parties in open societies don’t do ideological purity, Matoko. Never have, never will.]

    there used to be a link there on ideological purity but he has broken it since i retrieved this from the memory hole.
    its kinda obviouso the GOP has gone purist….the Weigel thing is just another attempt to enforce message discipline.
    Do you know who else did message discipline?
    Hitler, thass who.
    :)

  17. 17
    sparky says:

    shades of mcchrystal? not very smart to post something incendiary to a listserv. it may be that someone else on the list simply forwarded it to someone else….

    and yeah, the obsession with order, broadly understood (tidy torture, tidy discourse) is somewhat unfathomable to moi. but as long as they keep the tidy indoors and off the streets i don’t care. :p

  18. 18
    matoko_chan says:

    @daveNYC: lawl….well im not old enough to know that i guess.
    WoW and South Park are my cultural bibles.
    :)

  19. 19
    John Cole says:

    @tim: Sharing a listserv with other like-minded professionals is not the same as going to bbq’s at John McCain’s or going to Sally Quinn’s for dinner.

    Keerist.

  20. 20
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @tim: Have you ever, in your line of work, thrown around unformed ideas with your colleagues that were not intended for consumption by your customers/clients/whoever the hell gives you money until you worked them into something more final?

    That’s essentially what JournoList is. How that’s supposed to be insidery shit is beyond me.

  21. 21
    David in NY says:

    @Erik Vanderhoff:

    Uh, aside from the Drudge quote, none of those quotes are the slightest bit inflammatory (hee, couldn’t resist!).

    Yup. None of these approaches the “big f_____g deal” level. Sheesh.

  22. 22
    dmsilev says:

    @Sentient Puddle: Exactly. See also the tempest in a teapot over the stolen emails showing that (gasp!) climate scientists have a very low opinion of the professional global-warming-deniers.

    dms

  23. 23
    pharniel says:

    @matoko_chan:
    aahhhh the desu-chan generation….so many exploitable meme-holes to work you guys through.

  24. 24
    liberal says:

    @daveNYC:

    While leaking the email is a dick move, and I totally agree that straight up person to person emails are private, I’m not sure how much expectation of privacy one should expect from a listserv.

    Yeah. You’d think that’d be obvious.

  25. 25
    someguy says:

    @J.W. Hamner:

    It certainly does appear to be a calculated attempt to destroy his career… though I don’t imagine it will work. Loathsome indeed.

    It’s not loathesome at all. The guy’s a freaking libertardian, another poo flinging Randian scrote bag. *Thank god* somebody’s undercutting him before he gets a NY Times Op Ed slot and a chance to Go Galt on a nationwide basis. Too bad he didn’t say something that would really end his career – such as “and Broder is nothing but a senile old apologist for the worst Republican abuses.”

    We’ve got enough acommodationist villagers as it is without adding a McMegan-fluffing exile from the inaptly-named Reason.

  26. 26
    matoko_chan says:

    @pharniel: lawl, don’t forget, we are also the 4chan generation.
    need boxes?
    ;)

  27. 27
    lol says:

    Why not go ahead and publish the emails, John?

    It seems that the conservative blogosphere is in universal agreement that emails like this are not private and should be released. In fact, it’d probably be safe to say that you have their implicit permission to share with others.

  28. 28
    John Cole says:

    @someguy: So it’s ok to destroy someone for private comments, because he isn’t a good progressive/liberal.

    WTF is wrong with you people?

  29. 29
    hilzoy says:

    “Sorry, John, I completely disagree. Insidery beltway village shit like journolist are a HUGE reason why the MSM doesn’t tend to tell us what is REALLY going on. They are far too chummy with government types and with each other, and enjoy keeping the juicy stuff to themselves; makes them feel SPECIAL, don’t you know.”

    I’m on jlist. There are no government types on it. There are a number of academics, like, um, me, which explains the number of wonky threads on things like survey methodology, which I find fascinating.

    Fun though it would be for me if there were a lot of juicy, insider-y stuff on the list, just ask yourself why on earth it would be in the interests of any journalist to put that on an email listserv populated by his or her competitors rather than publishing it. Even if people did “enjoy” it, in this case enjoyment would equal professional ruin, so if that were what was going on, it would be Ex-JournoList.

  30. 30
    tim says:

    @John Cole:

    Disagree. It is EXACTLY the same, just in a different venue.

  31. 31
    Lawnguylander says:

    It would be a voluntary act if Drudge took the suggestion and set himself on fire and I don’t support nanny state restrictions on free will. It’s not like Weigel said he wanted to set Drudge on fire or that someone else should or that Drudge should be force fed cilantro so I don’t see what the big deal is. On the other hand, while Weigel is an amusing guy to follow on twitter, he’s just the latest in a long list of pundits starting with Amanda Marcotte and Melissa McEwan whose careers I get the feeling I’m supposed to be concerned with but just can’t manage to give a fuck about.

  32. 32
    NobodySpecial says:

    @Sentient Puddle: I’d say the ideas expressed were pretty well formed, myself. But then again, it’s that old thing: Never attach your name to something you wouldn’t want to come back and haunt you. Which is why I’ll never ever ever run for public office.

  33. 33
    JenJen says:

    @someguy: Actually, I think Dave Weigel has been doing progressives a pretty big fucking favor, first with his work at the Washington Independent, and now with a bigger megaphone over at with which to highlight conservative idiocy, at the WaPo.

    All that being said, I don’t think the guy deserves to have his career destroyed just because you don’t like his politics, or his friends.

  34. 34
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @tim:

    It is EXACTLY the same, just in a different venue.

    This post is quite funny coming in right after @hilzoy.

  35. 35
    someguy says:

    @John Cole:

    @someguy: So it’s ok to destroy someone for private comments, because he isn’t a good progressive/liberal. WTF is wrong with you people?

    You get a choice in politics – be nice or win. Some people are far enough onto the other side of issues, that they have forfeited their right to be treated with common decency.

    If you had a chance to take down Krauthammer, would you publish similar emails? How ’bout budding op-ed page staple KKKarl Rove? Or Megan McCain? Or Sarah Palin?

    If you’d out any of them for beyond-the-pale emails on a list that isn’t really even that private, then you’re with me, and it’s just a question of how far the loathing scale you’d go before you extended compromised your principles in the interest of being nice.

  36. 36

    @hilzoy: If you are going to link to OW’s, we’ll be expecting some posts of yours there. There is no teasing in the interwebs. :-)

  37. 37
    taterstick says:

    “Whoever did that has no honor or shame.”

    Pretty well describes a significant majority of the Republican party and all their ilk.

    And, personally, I hope Drudge dies a long, slow painful death from ass cancer.

  38. 38
    some other guy says:

    I must be hardened by years of flamewars and other online abuse because not a single one of these supposedly oh-so-scandalous quotes even raised an eyebrow for me.

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t the WaPo basically pay this guy to mock conservatives? So he doesn’t like Druge, or (National Review editor) Byron York, or “Paultards.” This is surprising to people?

  39. 39
    Paul L. says:

    @Jinchi:
    You do know the difference between a listserv that forwards emails to a number of email addresses and accessing someone’s private email by using the Yahoo password recovery feature?

    I find it funny/hypocritical that those who supported releasing Sarah Palin’s private emails are outraged by this.

    Also funny the VRWC has a mole in Journolist and the best that they can get is Dave Weigel.
    Maybe he is the only one on Journolist who is not shameless hack and can be embarrassed.

  40. 40
    tim says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    Puddle: the insiders on Journolist are “colleagues” from lots of DIFFERENT companies and organizations. Rather than competing against each other to deliver timely, important, and accurate information to their customers, they are COLLUDING with each other in what seems to be a casual but effective system by which it is decided what should and should not be kept FROM their customers and kept to themselves.

    These people are, I assume, HUMANS, and as such are not immune to the poison of tribalism and elitism bred by such associations and forums. It is the kind of thinking that led to the lockstep coverage of the leadup to the Iraq invasion; these are SERIOUS PEOPLE who know exactly what is best for us because they have talked it all over with each other before deciding what to share with the peons.

    This concept of inappropriate associations is not hard to understand. I am fascinated that John and others of you resist it so.

  41. 41
    matoko_chan says:

    @John Cole: agreed.
    i have tons of stuff…that could relly damage people on racist remarks and palinism.
    i was a nominal republican until the Palincrackheads drove me out.
    i can say, that a LOT of conservative pundits were initially freaked by Palin.
    they knew exactly what she was, and a lot of them snarked about her privately.
    their grievous miscalculation was overestimating her malleability.
    she wouldn’t play galatea to their pygmalion.

  42. 42
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @someguy: Uh…Dave Weigel is in no way, shape or form comparable to people like Krauthammer, Rove, or Palin.

  43. 43
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @tim:

    the insiders on Journolist are “colleagues” from lots of DIFFERENT companies and organizations.

    You ever been to a conference?

  44. 44
    John Cole says:

    @tim: At any point now, you can simply admit you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about.

  45. 45
    John Cole says:

    @Paul L.:

    I find it funny/hypocritical that those who supported releasing Sarah Palin’s private emails are outraged by this.

    I know I am dealing with an actual Paultard now, but:

    A.) What Sarah Pakin was doing, using an unsecure yahoo account for government business, was illegal.

    B.) Even despite that, no one here supported the guys behavior. Here is my post on the matter, in which I even stated I would never publish her emails.

  46. 46
    Anya says:

    I am guessing the same people who excuse every despicable utterance against the President, the first lady and the Speaker of the House are freaking out about this. The level of hypocrisy of these shameless assholes never ceases to amaze me.

  47. 47
    demimondian says:

    Um…hello? Mail sent to JournaList is not “private”, unless you count a memo sent to you and several hundred of your most intimate friends as “private”.

  48. 48
    bmcchgo says:

    I am a regular poster on Weigel’s site and I was appalled by the vitrol unleashed on him. The Drudge-ites came out in force with hate I’ve never seen in my time on the Internet(s).

  49. 49
    tim says:

    @John Cole:

    Hmmm….I must be touching a nerve. Someone is very cranky.

    I suppose you would back up that implication if you could violate the sanctity of some privately held, super special info you picked up on your conservative insider listserv.

    Man, John, with statements like this, your character traits that made you a lockstep soldier in Repuke Bushism comes surging to the fore.

    you are a dick.

  50. 50
    demimondian says:

    @tim: Is that you, Todd?

  51. 51
    Sentient Puddle says:

    Shorter @tim:

    I got nothing.

  52. 52
    Maude says:

    @hilzoy:
    missed you

  53. 53
    sukabi says:

    @demimondian: it’s also not public, as it’s not open for anyone and everyone to participate in, read or respond to.

    it’s by definition a private club… you have to be invited to participate, and only those with like circumstances are welcomed in.

  54. 54
    Allan says:

    The RWNJs hate Weigel because he REPORTS on the Right instead of acting as its stenographer.

  55. 55
    Capn America says:

    @someguy:
    Obviously you don’t know the first thing about Weigel, have you ever read his shit??? He covered the Tea Party before there was a Tea Party, the birthers before they were even called that. He probably knows more than any other journalist about the conservative movement. Not to mention that his writing is rarely opinionated (politically), and much more objective. I’m sure politically he’s pretty libertarian, but of the civil liberties type, not the “taxes are unconstitutional” type.

  56. 56
    The Tragically Flip says:

    @demimondian:

    If there wasn’t an expectation of confidentiality (from an ethical not legal stance), then let the leaker stand forward and put their name behind this. Journolist has from what I gather, an explicit understanding of being off the record, so it’s not at all like just sending out a mass email to your friends and expecting them not to talk about it.

  57. 57
  58. 58

    Balloon Juice life was so much simpler when the fights were only with the wingnuts. The right wing nuts, that is.

  59. 59
    Tom Hilton says:

    By the way, what happened to the post that was linked from Memeorandum?

  60. 60
    someguy says:

    @Capn America:

    I’m sure politically he’s pretty libertarian, but of the civil liberties type, not the “taxes are unconstitutional” type.

    Sorry Capn America, you lie down with dogs… Being the “right kind of libertarian” is like being the “right kind of Straussian” or the “right kind of Zionist” or the “right kind of Republican.” I’m sure there’s some people holding those viewpoints who aren’t totally radioactive… but at best they are Judas goats for totally disastrous and unacceptable political viewpoints, providing critical political beachheads for all the more extreme the nuts. Weigel is to libertarianism what Douthat and Brooks are to conservatism, no more, no less. Just because he agrees with you on a couple points doesn’t make him your friend.

  61. 61
    John Cole says:

    @Tom Hilton: The comments got way out of line by comment #30 so I just deleted the damned post rather than wake up this morning and deal with manually removing 300 shitty comments.

  62. 62
    someguy says:

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Balloon Juice life was so much simpler when the fights were only with the wingnuts. The right wing nuts, that is.

    They’re mostly gone, thank Gaia. Now we can commence the circular firing squad, as befits our progressive traditions.

  63. 63
    John Cole says:

    Man, John, with statements like this, your character traits that made you a lockstep soldier in Repuke Bushism comes surging to the fore.

    You are spewing idiocy. A professional listserv that is invite only, so people can toss around ideas and discuss wonkish stuff, with people like Hilzoy and other experts in the fields of media, ethics, health care reform, taxation, budgeting, etc., is not some insiderish clique like the bullshit Sally Quinn dinner clubs or dancing with Karl Rove. It is a forum for ideas and private conversation.

    That you think these should not exist is not a courageous step forward for the common man, but a blow to people’s ability to privately associate with one another. As there is an expectation that everything will be kept in-house, much like the concept of tenure in Academia, people can say controversial things without expecting to have their careers damaged.

    Whoever leaked the emails is the real dick, and not only that, betrayed the trust of everyone on the listserv. That you think this is ok and fail to be able to differentiate between this and dinners with Wolfgang Puck makes me question your ability to understand anything.

  64. 64
    Anya says:

    @someguy: I would just like to point out that being a Zionist is not bad. People who are misapporpraiting the term are bad. Chomsky considers himself to be a Zionist.

  65. 65

    @John Cole:

    The comments got way out of line by comment #30 so I just deleted the damned post rather than wake up this morning and deal with manually removing 300 shitty comments.

    It is nice to welcome everyone in to speak their mind, until too many guests start bringing matches. An open forum is best, but not when it’s openly standing in charred rubble.

  66. 66
    JenJen says:

    @Tom Hilton: Thanks!

    Man, this thread is weird. :-(

  67. 67

    They’re mostly gone, thank Gaia

    I miss them. And the joy of flaming them. There is no joy in the current Mudville.

  68. 68
    nanute says:

    @John Cole: Whoever leaked the emails is the real dick, and not only that, betrayed the trust of everyone on the listserv.
    Then, wouldn’t the matter be easily settled that everyone agreed not to disclose private conversations at the risk of being removed from the list?

  69. 69
    eemom says:

    The real tragedy here is that Weigel apologized for “belittling” Byron York. I hate that little smug-ass lying asshole.

  70. 70
    Joel says:

    I don’t see what the controversy is, here.

  71. 71
    mnpundit says:

    1. I totally disagree. You are fucking right, that’s how it should be on the internet. Everything I’ve said here stupid stuff and brilliant stuff, I should expect to be dredged up. I operate on that principle. If I can’t shut my own mouth then I deserve whatever happens to me.

    2. I also totally agree with Weigel. Matt Drudge should set himself on fire. He is a walking pestilence, a boil on the arse of humanity just like his self-loathing GOP buddies.

  72. 72
    Tom Hilton says:

    @eemom: I had exactly the same reaction.

  73. 73
    Violet says:

    I see both sides. Given that there is a private listserv, leaking the emails is dishonorable and shameful. If the person who did this is discovered, they should be outed as having done so and (obviously) not allowed back on the list.

    The question of the list existing is another thing entirely. I’ve been on invitation-only listservs, and know how they can help colleagues communicate. But I’ve also seen how private communication can lead to group-think and, in the case of one academic institution I worked at, lead to ethical lapses.

    So I’m not really a fan of any kind of private list that exists in any way except to ease and facilitate communication among a group of people. If it’s used to facilitate any kind of discussion that would be deemed a problem if it was said in public, then it has veered into dangerous territory.

    Because these are journalists that the public really hope are working in our best interests to hold powerful people accountable for their actions and to ferret out the truth, any kind of private communication lists that in any way lead to group-think or increase the “Village” mentality are to be viewed with skepticism.

  74. 74
    John Cole says:

    1. I totally disagree. You are fucking right, that’s how it should be on the internet. Everything I’ve said here stupid stuff and brilliant stuff, I should expect to be dredged up. I operate on that principle. If I can’t shut my own mouth then I deserve whatever happens to me.

    So you would have no problem with me outing all the anonymous people who comment here, since many of them email me with their real names, and I have their email addresses and ip addresses? They should be called to task at work and have things they said in haste used to get them fired?

    Because that is what you are saying- no one has any right to say things in private, which is what commenters here are doing when they speak anonymously.

    And in case any of you are worried, I would never reveal anyone’s information or ip address or name. I would go to jail before giving that info to the government.

  75. 75
    Tom Hilton says:

    The question of whether anyone has a reasonable expectation of privacy on a private listserv is separate from the question of whether anyone who leaks material from the listserv is an asshole. It’s possible to make reasonable arguments either way on the former; on the latter, there’s only one answer (yes, that person is a huge gaping asshole).

  76. 76
    tim says:

    @John Cole:

    You write very well when you’re not drunk, John.

    But I stand by my position. Journolist is composed of people who OUGHT to be competing against each other, who are instead colluding. People who ought to be wildly searching out secrets and exposing insiderism, who are instead reveling in it. It is just another form of the same mindset that leads to horrors like Biden’s beach party.

    Considering your recent posts mocking the Beltway Versailles, it’s weird you don’t get this. But as I said, I think that has to do with your inherent fondness for authoritarianism and super special secret clubs.

    I don’t even mean the latter as a slam; it just seems to be a facet of your makeup. That said, I enjoy enough other facets of same that I keep coming back here to have my thinking challenged.

    But your BJ sychophants don’t appreciate the presence of folks like me.

    sniff, boo hoo

  77. 77
    Nemo_N says:

    “Other people’s doucheness justify my doucheness”

  78. 78

    And in case any of you are worried, I would never reveal anyone’s information or ip address or name

    Never given it a second thought, or first, that you would do such a thing. Nor even capable of it.

  79. 79
    Tom Hilton says:

    @tim: well, I guess you agree with Mark Hemingway then. Have fun with your pals on the Corner.

  80. 80
    tim says:

    @eemom:

    He also apologize to MATT DRUDGE, of all people, thereby proving my point. Weigel would rather his spine be removed in the public square than back up something he weaselly exclaimed on a super secret special insidery liststerv? So who is the real Weigel? The one who slammed Drudge with great gusto, or the wimp who apologized?

    And I don’t get why you wimps think anyone’s career need be destroyed over this…and if so, it only serves to illustrate how fucked up the beltway is.

  81. 81
    tim says:

    @mnpundit:

    You, sir, are correct.

  82. 82
    tim says:

    @Violet:

    You, ma’am, are correct.

    Except I believe that generally speaking, people who expose hypocrisy and bullshit from any angle are heroes.

  83. 83
  84. 84
    eemom says:

    I would go to jail before giving that info to the government.

    I like a man who protects my info.

  85. 85
    Xero says:

    From Chris Hayes’ twitter stream:

    I’m appalled. RT @drgrist: What an ugly, senseless episode. RT @benpolitico: @daveweigel just resigned, Wapo coms director tells me.

    edited to remove a character causing weigels name to render as an email link.

  86. 86
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @tim:

    Journolist is composed of people who OUGHT to be competing against each other, who are instead colluding

    It seems like you see all journalism as investigative journalism or muckraking. I don’t know the composition of this list, but that description doesn’t really apply to someone like Ezra Klein, whose beat is not and has never been “wildly searching out secrets and exposing insiderism.” He analyzes policy by becoming better informed about it. Is he typical of the membership of the list?

  87. 87

    Time to exit this thread and pour gasoline over it.

    jeebus H. christ on a pogo stick.

  88. 88
    Violet says:

    @Xero:
    That’s an awful outcome. He should not have had to resign. The Republican purists just keep trying to collect scalps.

  89. 89
    Anya says:

    I just read Weigel’s apology and the whole affair is much ado about nothing. Why is this even a big deal, he did not say anything as bad as I assumed. Everyone is entitled to blow steam.

    The only part that is worth an outrage is leaking of private emails part. When you join a group there is an honor system that should dictate your behavior. Why aren’t people more outraged about the leak? I am with JC on this one and anyone giving him a hard time about his reaction is just being a dick.

  90. 90

    @tim: Go in peace troll.

    I got me some blog religion

  91. 91
    tim says:

    @Tom Hilton:

    Yes, I do agree with Hemingway. As long as his position applies to such secret groups across the political spectrum.

    If Ezra Klein is simply seeking information from folks on journolist, why does that process need to be SECRET? Why not lay out the conversation for all of us to read if we’re so inclined?

    Could it be that young Ezra wants to cherry pick the info himself, curry favor and a mutual sense of elitism with his sources and colleagues at the same time?

    Nah, couldn’t be that…betlway insiders are not subject to the same human weaknesses as the rest of us. Oh, and John Cole isn’t either.

  92. 92
    Stephen1947 says:

    Someguy at #60 argues for a tribal purity that differs only in content, not in kind, from that practiced by the Tea Partiers. If you need to set up a lot of groups of folks who need to be hated in order to define the purity of your own group – and no one from one of the hated groups is to be tolerated no matter what – then explain to me why you aren’t a bigot?

  93. 93
    tim says:

    @FlipYrWhig:

    Ezra founded the list. I don’t know that he is “typical” because the full list has not been disclosed to my knowledge.

    and I do believe journalistic independence from one’s competitors is very important to bloggers and every other form of writer.

    the outcome of anything else is groupthink.

  94. 94
    eemom says:

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Hate the trollery, love the troll.

    Let him who has not trolled among you cast the first flame.

    Go thy way and troll no more.

    Flame not, lest ye be flamed.

    Yer onto something here, General.

  95. 95
    Sentient Puddle says:

    @Xero: If that’s true, I’m going to punch a window.

  96. 96
    Paul in KY says:

    Man, I see what John is saying. Yet, I effing despise Matt Drudge & with me DIAF would be a blessing for him.

    John is much more up on these listserv things & the privacy inherent when joining one, so I will yield to his view.

    I don’t think I’ve ever read this Weigel fellow. He was spot on about Drudge, though.

  97. 97
    tim says:

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    again with the weak ass “troll” thing.

    It’s clear you enjoy pegging folks like me as a troll, or outsider to this blog, so that you can feel all warm and sticky in your imagined status as a BJ “insider.”

    Though you’re likely too self deluded to see it, this is exactly what I’ve been talking about.

  98. 98
    Rosalita says:

    @tim:

    if you don’t like it here, move along

  99. 99
    Violet says:

    @John Cole:

    And in case any of you are worried, I would never reveal anyone’s information or ip address or name. I would go to jail before giving that info to the government.

    Sexy.

  100. 100
    JenJen says:

    @Xero: Goddammit.

    Way to go, email leaking assholes. :-(

    ETA: I’m pissed off. Yes, guys as good as Dave Weigel tend to land on their feet, but this is one sorry-ass pathetic needless episode indeed.

  101. 101
    Xero says:

    @Sentient Puddle:

    Its all over twitter. Not that that attests to the veracity of it, but it initially came from Ben at Politico (again, veracity/grain of salt etc)

    Saying some conservatives suck is a firing/resignation offense. Calling liberal hitler, and whoring for the torture porn crowd gets you a paying gig.

  102. 102
    Glenn says:

    I would just like to state for the record that I do believe the world would be a vastly better place if Matt Drudge were to set himself on fire, and unlike Weigel I am neither tired, nor (particularly) angry, nor intending to be hyperbolic. I mean that with all sincerity. Thanks for letting me share.

  103. 103
    Josh says:

    @tim:

    tim, in my off time when I’m not sarcastically commenting on this blog, I often put my years of experience dissecting trolls to good use on other blogs.

    ThinkProgress was one. I posted there as Jeff Spender until their group-think whelmed me and I was accused of being a troll because I dared disagree with one of their posts and some of their commentariat.

    It has nothing to do with being an outsider or sharing a different opinion that gets you labels like “troll.” It’s all about how you go about commenting. When you insult the blogger by calling him a dick, that’s a mark on the checklist of trolldom.

    When you incite bickering by lobbing out insults and make comments that are solely for insulting another poster, a la “Sycophant alert!” that is another mark.

    The fact that you aren’t open to debate on this issue, but rather that you have a set opinion and won’t budge on it is another mark.

    You don’t meet all of the standard diagnostic criteria for being a troll, yet; however, I would like to stress that you’ve added nothing critical or substantive to the discussion.

  104. 104
    Tom Hilton says:

    @tim:

    If Ezra Klein is simply seeking information from folks on journolist, why does that process need to be SECRET? Why not lay out the conversation for all of us to read if we’re so inclined?

    So all information-gathering by all journalists should be entirely transparent and available to the public?

    Others have said it, but it bears repeating: you don’t have the barest hint of a ghost of a shadow of a glimpse of a clue to what you’re talking about.

    Worse, you’re a self-righteous asshole. Fuck off.

  105. 105
    JenJen says:

    @tim: Mickey Kaus, is that you?

    Also, via Liz Mair, it seems The Daily Caller took the Weigel thing to the next level. Fuckers.

    ETA: Daily Caller page has been taken down; changed link to the cached version but it’s not loading either.

    ETA2: Actually, patience pays off… it loads, but slowly.

  106. 106
    catclub says:

    @John Cole:
    “I would go to jail …”

    This is a noble sentiment, but if you really mean it I hope you are wiping logs on a regular basis.

    I also would hope that if you got an email in which poster A says he has broken into your server, and is going to track down poster B to do poster B harm, you might change your mind on giving out ‘private’ information.

    Another reason for wiping logs.

    Of course, if you have backup servers owned by some provider, the government may not even ask you to turn over info that you would go to jail to protect.

    Another reason for wiping logs.

    Ever read “The Elephant’s Child” by Kipling?

  107. 107
    Poopyman says:

    @tim:

    You write very well when you’re not drunk, John.

    And that’s where I stopped reading, because it’s a douchy swipe that adds nothing to your argument. Which I have no interest in reading anymore.

    Heck of a job, Timmy!

  108. 108

    @tim: I could say something nasty, but won’t. I do know how though.

  109. 109
    tim says:

    @Rosalita:

    I often DO like it here, Rosalita…sycophants (that’s my word of the day, inspired by BJ frequent commenters) like you keep me reminded of how NOT to think.

  110. 110
    Don says:

    If Ezra Klein is simply seeking information from folks on journolist, why does that process need to be SECRET? Why not lay out the conversation for all of us to read if we’re so inclined?

    Ezra makes a living at this where I and other folks do it for love and beer money. However even I am not interested in sharing the process of my story researching and hashing out with the world. If I give you all my product along the way I potentially allow someone else to beat me to it or you to consume all the parts before I “bake” them, removing any need for you to read my stuff.

    This belief that Klein and whatever group of other people he chooses to involve don’t have a right to protect their process and idea is just silly. There may be creators in the world who are willing to share everything while in process but most of us would prefer the keep the curtain drawn till we’re good and ready.

  111. 111
    tim says:

    @Josh:

    Oh horseshit. Regular commenters here insult me with one liners frequently. Are you calling them trolls?

    Why is it ok for the blog host to call his commenters names or insult their integrity, but not vice versa?

    John can take care of himself; he doesn’t need you to protect him or speak for him. In a way, it seems to me I respect John more than most of his regular…wait for it…sycophants. Look up the word. It’s apt.

    The sensitivities here are of the pick and choose variety.

    I’ve offered my reasoning; if you don’t like it or agree, just ignore it

  112. 112
    Capn America says:

    Can someone explain the controversy of having a private listserv to me? It seems like Journolist keeps getting called out as somehow unethical. I mean, I’m on plenty of mailing lists. When I send out pics of the family to my relatives, I send it to our extended family listserv. When I want to have a party at my place, I send it my social listserv. When I want to share something hilarious I read online, I send it to my buddies listserv. Just because I don’t send out pics of my family or party details or shit I read online to everybody in the world doesn’t mean I’m being an insider-y prick, the way a lot of people here think Ezra Klein is, it just means that like most people, I prefer sharing some things only with people I know.

  113. 113
    tim says:

    @Tom Hilton:

    Worse, you’re a self-righteous asshole. Fuck off.

    Oh, my, Tommy. Watch out, your buddy Josh will call you a “troll.” Thank you for the explicit example of the kind of respectful discussion demanded of commenters at BJ.

    BTW, I have a bachelor’s degree in journalism from the William Allen White School of Journalism at the University of Kansas, one of the most respected in the nation. Perhaps I DO know what I’m talking about…

    Now I’m certain you’ll find some cheap ass way to insult that fact, and that’s fine. It’s clear your self-respect is somehow on the line here. But it is a sad day indeed when someone like me, calling for common sense ethical baselines, is so cruelly and unjustly abused.

    sob.

  114. 114
    tim says:

    @General Egali Tarian Stuck:

    Believe me, I know you know…

  115. 115
  116. 116
    Tom Hilton says:

    @tim: I’m not commenting on your background (about which I don’t give a shit); I’m commenting on the content of what you say. Which continues to be 100% horseshit.

  117. 117
    Comrade Kevin says:

    @tim: Keep fucking those goats, Mickey tim

  118. 118
    hilzoy says:

    tim: “Journolist is composed of people who OUGHT to be competing against each other, who are instead colluding. People who ought to be wildly searching out secrets and exposing insiderism, who are instead reveling in it.”

    “Rather than competing against each other to deliver timely, important, and accurate information to their customers, they are COLLUDING with each other in what seems to be a casual but effective system by which it is decided what should and should not be kept FROM their customers and kept to themselves.”

    And your evidence for this is what, exactly? As I said, I’m on the list, and the idea that there’s any kind of collusion on it is laughable. You might believe me, you might not; that’s your prerogative. It’s also your prerogative to just make stuff up and present it as fact. And it’s other people’s prerogative to decide whether or not to believe you in the absence of any evidence at all. So if you have some, now would be the time to produce it.

    Dave Weigel is a guy I disagree with on a number of issues, but he’s also one of the best and hardest-working reporters I know of. (I’ve met him twice, both times at a liberal/libertarian discussion group that Tim no doubt thinks should have been tape recorded and put on the internet. That is: I don’t know him at all well, but I have enormous respect for him, and I think it’s all of our loss that he resigned.)

  119. 119
    timb says:

    @matoko_chan: The worse part had to be the Protein Wisdom part, right? I mean, it’s bad enough when a racist like Derbyshire champions something you wrote, but then to have a gaggle of racists claim you favor eugenics?

    That is gross

  120. 120
    FlipYrWhig says:

    @Capn America:

    Can someone explain the controversy of having a private listserv to me? It seems like Journolist keeps getting called out as somehow unethical.

    I don’t understand it either. The concern about collusion doesn’t seem self-evident; IMHO it’s sort of like saying that reporters shouldn’t have other reporters’ phone numbers on speed-dial because whenever reporters talk to one another it’s a slippery slope to propaganda.

  121. 121
    Rich says:

    The consensus in DC seems to be that it’s perfectly fine and dandy for the hired goons of the state to dig into any and all communications of us ‘lesser’ folk, so you know what? Fuck ’em. Fuck ’em all with a rancid zombie goat dick from hell or Pennsylvania. I don’t give a shit. Transparency of government, by definition, does not take place in back rooms hidden from the public.

    If it’s good enough for us . . .

  122. 122

    […] thought in private, concerning Matt Drudge and the followers of Ron Paul.  As it turned out Weigel trusted the wrong people, and the emails were […]

  123. 123

    You know what? I read the quote, and it was funny because he was saying Drudge should light himself on fire as a more mature response than what he (Drudge) actually did. Context, people. And, I am on the side that this shit does not need to be reported. I have admired Weigel’s work for some time now; I’m gonna be pissed if he actually resigned.

    @hilzoy: Thank you for your input, hilzoy. Might I just add myself to the people saying that you are sorely missed?

  124. 124
    matoko_chan says:

    @timb: yup.
    in the blogverse before time AllahP, JeffieG, and I wrote drunken midnite haiku mocking the instapud and feministas.
    then Obama got elected and everything changed.
    PW went from Cooltown to Crazytown in an eyeblink.
    AllahP got neutered and pithed by Malkin and I ran from the Palin Crackhead Party like a scalded cat.

    The happy ending is that i worked campus GOTV and phonebank for O and feel like I made a difference.
    it was so terribly hard to be smart and be a republican.

  125. 125
    silentbeep says:

    @tim: funny thing is if you follow weigel by reading his twitter feed, his personal blog, or any of his professional work, his ‘real’ thoughts aren’t surprising at all. He has a sharp laconic wit, sometimes scathing. It’s not a shock that he said those things on journolist (at least to me) and people who are shocked, are fooling themselves and/or ignorant of who he is.

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