It is becoming abundantly clear why Rosie was dumped- she has some serious behavioral issues that I am going to have to work through. She is a perfect little angel with Lily and with Tunch. They all share the bed, my lap, their food, their water, are good on the leash at the same time, etc. She and Tunch sniff each other but are otherwise disinterested, which I think is a good thing (still keeping Tunch’s safe room, though). And she is fine out in public, loves being pet and greeted by people, has no issues with other dogs, etc. She also has no food aggression issues. I can pick up her bowl when I think she has had enough and she is perfectly fine with it.
She does, however, have two big problems- separation anxiety, and she is overly protective of me. If I so much as close the bathroom door, she starts whining and crying. At my parents house, I went inside while she was outside with the other dogs, and when she realized that I was no longer there, she ran inside and went from room to room frantically until she found me. I have no idea how much of this has to do with being dumped in the woods, but I would like to try to handle this as soon as possible.
The second issue she has is that she is extremely protective of me when I am sitting down and she is near me. If she is sitting next to me or on my lap, and someone comes near me or her, she bares her teeth and snarls and growls and sounds horrid. It is really quite frightful and awful. She also seems to be more distrustful of women than men. This is the only time she behaves like that- when we are sitting down.
She has not snapped or bitten anyone, instead just snarling and growling and looking ferocious, but this needs to be dealt with ASAP. So… What do I do?
Stephanie
I crated my guy and that helped create a safe space for him. Here’s a good article on separation anxiety. The author also mentions the best authority on dog training in my mind – Patricia McConnell. She has several booklets on dog training and one on separation anxiety.
http://www.wagntrain.com/SeparationAnx.htm
Good luck!!
phoebes-in-santa fe
FWIW, when I adopted a two year old tabby from a local shelter two years ago, she was very clingy to me the first month or so. Following me into the bathroom, trying to jump on my lap when I was using the toilet, trying to sit and sleep where ever I was sitting or sleeping, etc. I assumed she was just anxious after having been in the shelter for a couple of months OR she just wanted me to know she loved me and wanted me to love her. She has calmed down greatly in the past couple of years.
My new cat, a year old piebald male I adopted two weeks ago, is also very clingy to me. He loves to sit on this laptop and often interferes when I’m typing. That, though, has lessened, too.
I suspect that the new animal in the house just wants you to know she’s glad to be there and that she loves you and she wants to STAY.
Joshua Norton
Although she seems to be a complete love, you should consider those warning signs. She was obviously traumatized by being abandoned. I had a friend who adopted a few pound dogs who exhibited similar tendencies. The more comfortable a dog gets with their surroundings, the more those traits surface and the more dominant they become. Timid baring of the teeth can soon escalate into full fledged snarling and lunging.
It’s really up to you to consider if the extra behavioral training is worth it.
schrodinger's cat
@Stephanie: Is she the same person who has a show on NPR where you can call in with you pet problems? I think it is called, Calling all Pets.
Sirkowski
Drugs?
JenJen
I’ve had similar problems with adopted dogs, and my mother went through it last summer when they adopted little Sailor, another dog we suspected had been dumped.
In my situations, and in my mom’s recent situation, the problem has gone away with:
1. Crating, just as Stephanie suggested
2. Lots of exercise
3. Correction of the aggressive behavior (which I usually accomplished in a kind of Cesar Milan-style, by snapping the dog out of it, standing up, adopting an alpha-stance, etc… any kind of non-aggressive way of letting the dog know this behavior was simply not acceptable)
4. Time, repetition, and patience
I’m sure everyone will have their own suggestions, but these techniques have always done the trick for me.
@Sirkowski: I laughed at that first, but then recalled a dumped Aussie Shepherd I once fostered for about a year. My techniques worked on him, but he was an anxious dog and the separation anxiety just wasn’t going away. The vet finally suggested a 30-day course of Prozac. Seriously. I had my doubts and thought the vet was nuts, but it worked, there were no side effects, and after a month off the pills, he was able to be adopted out.
Comrade Javamanphil
Set the DVR to the Dog Whisperer, asap.
Poopyman
Consult a professional, starting with your vet. First thing Monday morning would be a good time to make that phone call. Determine whether your vet is really equipped to deal with behavioral issues, or whether they can refer you to someone else.
There’ll be a lot of opinions here, but you’re the one that has to separate your facts from your feelings and determine the best course of action. And you’re the only one with the full set of facts.
Joshua Norton
She also may be trying to establish her dominance as an alpha dog. Something you absolutely don’t want to ignore or encourage.
Stephanie
@schrodinger’s cat
Yes, Patricia McConnell was on “Calling all Pets” on NPR in Wisconsin.
Bella
I helped rescue a dachshund that had been dumped in the woods. Poor thing was just a skeleton. It took two weeks, and she wouldn’t let us near enough to catch her — eventually we got her, in a cat trap.
One of my friends got her the vet care she needed and kept her. It took quite some time for the separation anxiety to fade, particularly when they were away from home and getting back in the car.
Someone saw the dog get dumped–a little girl walked her back in there and turned her loose, and then the family drove off. I imagine the girl was traumatized too, or one day will be.
I’ve rescued a lot of abandoned animals and them being clingy is quite common, and it makes perfect sense when you think about it. On the upside: you can usually work through it, and you won’t find a more devoted pet. They know they got lucky, and they’re looking to keep it that way.
Three-nineteen
How long have you had this dog – a week or two? Most of the shelter animals I’ve seen are either clingy or very standoffish for at least a couple of months after adoption. I’d wait through most of the summer to see if Rosie calms down. Let her see you come back multiple times and she’ll probably be all right. Remember, everything is very new to her and even though she seems fine most of the time she still needs a little while to adjust. The protective side is probably part and parcel with the abandonment issue, but if it doesn’t abate I would get her trained (along with Lilly, if you’re still having issues with her). No matter the size of the dog, if you’re going to have it around strange people and animals you should always train it.
schrodinger's cat
@Stephanie: I used to listen to that program every Saturday as I drove to my exercise class,
Chris Johnson
If she reacts that way towards your other animals, Tunch and Lily, ditch her. It will only get worse. I guess human guests will have to fend for themselves. I’m sure not visiting you ;)
I’m sure Dick Cheney, Karl Rove etc. were picked on as children too, but FFS, put situational awareness in front of DFHism, ok?
If my aggressive old lady cat wasn’t toothless and limited in the damage she can produce, she would be GONE.
You Don't Say
My father-in-law’s dog did the same thing when sitting on somebody’s lap and eventually bit a couple people. I have no advice, sorry, but know from experience it’s behavior that needs to be dealt with before it escalates.
We adopted a shelter dog found as a stray about two months ago and he has terrible separation anxiety. We left him outside for four hours yesterday to have dinner out and came home to find him in the house. He chewed, pawed through the screen door. Fortunately, everything was fine inside and he was fine.
So I am interested in any separation anxiety advice too.
John Cole
This is not an attempt to establish dominance. This is fear.
Jennifer
You definitely want to get on top of the “protective” behavoir right away – that’s not “protective” behavoir, it’s dominant behavoir – she is claiming you as “hers” which obviously you don’t want given that there are other animals in the house and if you allow it to continue it definitely will escalate. As JenJen said, the Milan-style “snap out of it” correction is probably your best bet for getting that under control ASAP. I’d also suggest that it’s perhaps NOT a good idea to allow her to just jump up with you whenever you sit down – set some boundaries to let her know that it’s up to you to INVITE her to sit with you – that in and of itself might correct the dominance issue.
Jim Henley
@Joshua Norton: Oh Christ, not this nonsense, please.
licensed to kill time
You have to nip the teeth-baring and growling in the bud. I’d go with the Milan-style “Pssssssssssssssssht!” and a quick two-fingered poke to the side to snap her out of it each and every time.
I have to deal with roaming neighborhood dogs a lot, and it always amazes me how effective that psssssst sound is.
Joseph Nobles
My advice is to take that job of protecting you away from her and give her another one. I don’t know if I’d go 100% with what Cesar Milan says, but walking and training her on a couple of tricks before giving her feeding and a lot of affection will help her know what her real job should be (i.e. your job is Walk and Fetch and you can stick around as long as you do that.) The protectiveness you need to arrest before it starts. Watch her when she’s close to her. She’ll usually fix her attention on someone before she starts the really awful aggression. That’s the time to correct her and redirect her attention.
But take my advice with a grain of salt. I had to deal with a fear-aggressive JRT for a couple of years (my uncle’s dog, now with my ex-aunt when he finally moved), and I was mostly unsuccessful. I did teach him and the other dog a less stressful way of walking, though, so there was that.
Lab Partner
@JenJen: Good advice. I never had to deal with a case so bad that it needed medicating, but I wouldn’t rule it out. I had a dog with some separation anxiety soon after adoption. Walks, crating and correction definitely helped. But I also did some training, including stay training where I progressively had the dog wait longer and further away each day. Over time the dog went from clingy and overly emotional to just kind of down when I head out of the house.
Evan
My girlfriend and I adopted a mini dachshund that had been neglected/abused by a tall man with a deep voice and dark hair. I happen to be a tall man with a deep voice and dark hair. He immediately bonded to her in the same way it sounds like Rosie is bonding to you. He would follow her from room to room and whine when she closed the bathroom door. He started getting aggressive toward me in certain situations: when I would carry something (e.g. a plate of food) to her while they were sitting on the couch, when he was sleeping next to her, when a stranger would come too close to her (within about 20 feet sometimes).
First of all, we consulted an animal behavioral psychologist recommended to us by our vet, who suggested putting him on Prozac first thing (the brand is actually called Reconcile, but it’s the same drug as for humans) to combat his high anxiety level. That has calmed him down enough that we can do counterconditioning. Basically, you expose the dog to the situation that provokes aggression in a controlled way, and reward smaller reactions. It’s calmed him down a lot, to the point where he will sleep in my office on the couch while I’m working if she’s not actively cuddling him.
As far as separation anxiety, it went away pretty quickly on its own for our dog, so we haven’t had to deal with that. I’m told that giving the dog a special interactive toy (one that dispenses treats when you roll it around, for example) when you leave helps build an association between your absence and delicious food.
jh46inaz
There was an episode of “It’s me or the dog” (Animal Planet) having to do with a very similar problem to yours, an overprotective Yorkshire Terrier that was biting a woman’s husband and kids, very aggressive to guests, etc. Don’t know if you can find that episode, but there were some good tips in it. She fixed the Yorky pretty quickly. Trainer’s name is Victoria Stillwell. She probably has some books that would help.
licensed to kill time
@John Cole:
The thing is, John, whether it’s fear or dominance that’s driving the behavior, it is the behavior that you have to correct. You can’t baby a dog out of fear behaviors, in fact that usually makes it worse. Calm assertive correction will help her the most, and relieve her anxiety, because she’ll know that you are in charge and she doesn’t have to be on her guard all the time.
BarbF
It’s quite obvious that Rosie thinks that she is the master, defending you, her child. Definite no-no. Pretty soon she’s liable to snap on someone.
You have to make sure she knows you are the master. See the Dog Whisperer for advice for both problems. He’s had some great shows on separation anxiety, too.
Eric
My wife and I adopted a beagle-JRT cross about a year and a half ago, and she still had separation anxiety for a long time. There’s no easy way to go about combating it, but an interactive toy (try or ) can certainly help. My biggest recommendation – don’t take it for granted that it will go away. That’s what our vet told us, and it was four miserable months before we sought a second opinion.
The idea of medicating a dog for separation anxiety is tough to get your head around as a pet owner, but it really, really helps. If you don’t want to do something as strong (or expensive) as pet Prozac, children’s chewable benadryl was recommended to us by our vet, 1mg per pound of dog. It’s not a long-term fix, but it will relax the dog enough that we were able to do door training, and now we’ve been able to completely wean her off of it when we leave.
Phoebe
I think the behavior might be a response to the abandonment, and maybe not the cause.
I don’t know anything about dog training, but my sister is a trainer, and she hates Cesar Milan.
Good luck!
d. b. cooper
She will snap on a human eventually. I have no idea how to deal with it, but I wish I did, it’s really crippling to the social life.
Chris Johnson
Good luck, man. This must suck, but you’ll grow from it :(
Keith G
Despite the wonderful and heart-felt advice from the good people here, get professional help.
Spring some scratch to pay for a home visit from a credentialed canine behaviorist. You owe it to all concerned to get this looked after by an experienced professional and not by an “alpha dog” spouting blog reader.
Training, patience, and pharmaceuticals may all end up being part of the mix. A pro will know.
Ben
We had a dog adopted from a shelter that they told us was a “black lab mix”. We suspect that the mix was a rottweiler as it shared some facial features of the rottweiler and also was very protective of certain family members to the point of snapping at several people (including myself). Luckily for us he had arthritis and bad teeth, so he couldn’t do any damage. He got better as time went on but never grew out of that behavior (although he was old) before dying last December. Here’s hoping you have better luck with Rosie than we did with Rupert.
stuckinred
From the JRTA
Betsy
My advice is to find a reputable trainer. There are so many strongly-held, (sometimes) poorly informed opinions on dog training in the blog-reading public, I’d go with a pro that you feel you can trust.
Jim Henley
John, are you saying it’s fear because you’re reading specific aspects of her body language, expressions and sounds? May I ask what you’re seeing specifically? When she does this snarling and barking, is she kind of leaning back into you, or standing in a forward posture on your lap. Is her tail up high or down low? Eyes wide or narrow?
For the reactivity, I think you definitely should get help from a certified behaviorist. Per APDT, a woman named Cindy Luster at Mountaineer Kennel Club appears to be the Certified Pet Dog Trainer option near you. In the meantime, with any serious dog-behavior problem, Step 1 is Management: IOW, controlling/avoiding the circumstances that lead to the problem behavior. Step 2 would be to start counter-conditioning – start giving rewards when she alerts on new people (before she growls); let others throw her food rewards (best not have them handing treats out yet. You can combine this with brief periods of – precise term coming – negative reinforcement. This is not hurting her in any way; rather, when she acts like that, remove her from your presence briefly. In combination, she starts to learn, “Other people around John lead to good things!” and “Being an ass to other people means less companionship with John.”
Note that while this is the general program, I think it’s still a very good idea to work with a behaviorist. Timing of rewards can be a crucial issue, so that she doesn’t misunderstood what’s being rewarded. The timing of the negative reinforcement can also be confusing if misstimed: you want her to associate being removed from your presence with her own actions, not with the presence of other people. The former association mitigates the problem behavior while the latter strengthens it. Most of us have really sloppy body language when communicating with our dogs, which can add to the confusion. If you watch Victoria Stillwell on TV, you can see really precise self-control in action. She moves nothing except what she intends to move at any given moment. It’s particularly striking in ensemble shots with the clients of the week: everyone else is floundering and fluttering while she is an island of stillness. A behaviorist can help you with your own signalling. (“Don’t tense up when she does,” etc.)
Side issue: Obviously Rosie doesn’t have a wasting disease, so you may worry about food rewards and weight. The simple solution here is to turn “free” meals into earned rewards. On days when you’re going to have company with whom you can appropriately work on counter-conditioning, skip dinner and plan to use a meal’s worth of treats in counter-conditioning. For a low-urgency training task like loose-leash walking, you can just bag her regular dinner and dispense it as rewards for heeling. For a high-urgency task like counter-conditoning a reactive dog, though, you want to use really really good treats – and Rosie defines what really really good treats are. Cheese? Diced apple? Dried liver? Whatever she adores. Fortify yourself and your guests with lots of it.
Also, keep counter-conditioning sessions to a manageable length, especially at first. Also, again, get all the above suggestions vetted and adjusted for your circumstances by a certified behaviorist.
Keith G
F#ck that.
Cesar Milans methods are not backed by current research, but they sure look good on an edited heavily produced TV show.
You might as well buy some crystals and light a smudge pot.
Kered (formerly Derek)
@Keith G:
Huh, I didn’t know this! Is like, everything he does bullcrap? What specifically is so wrong about his methods?
Keith G
Oh, christ.
jamie
About 10 years back, I adopted a young female Chow that had been dumped and developed similar tendencies. She was a great dog, sweet tempered, but the nervousness and separation anxiety were hard to shake. I found the books and videos from the Monks of New Skete to be the most helpful for training her, as well as developing my own understanding and patience for her point of view and insight into how to effectively modify her behavior.
They are the product of an Eastern Orthodox monastery in upstate New York who are known for having a successful training program for German Shepherds; their books take the “member of the pack” approach, but don’t stress the “alpha dog” mentality as much as a holistic understanding of the dog’s worldview and a consistency of behavior which the dog can trust and relate to.
MattR
I would not worry so much about the separation anxiety as it seems to be pretty normal for shelter/rescue dogs and should work itself out over time. At the same time, getting a crate for Rosie so she has her own safe space is a good idea. And if it keeps up for a few months without seeming to get better then I would start to worry about it. For her other behavior I do not have much advice other than to seek professional help and avoid all the alpha dog BS.
You Don't Say
@Keith G: I have no dog in this fight, as the saying goes, because I don’t know enough about dog training to hold an opinion. But I do know it would be a lot more helpful if you’d offer a better solution rather than just bashing what you say is the wrong one.
Mrs. Peel
F#ck that.
Apparently, John’s dog isn’t the only one with reflexive aggression issues.
Kered (formerly Derek)
@You Don’t Say:
This.
licensed to kill time
These threads always turn into Cesar-love vs. Cesar-hate.
elmo
@Keith G:
Not only that, but the SOB has actually killed a dog with his “training” methods. He’s a hack. My partner is a professional dog trainer, now retired with a disability, and she can’t stand to see his face.
John: What you are seeing sounds more like resource guarding than “protecting” you. She doesn’t think other people are going to hurt you; she is trying to keep them from interfering with her access to you. I second the advice to find a trainer in your area; also not to ignore it; and third, never ever ever to reward it.
For her, “reward” = “John interaction.” If you comfort her when she is doing this (such as, “don’t worry, Rosie, it’s okay, they’re not hurting me” in a soft voice), you are rewarding it. Don’t do that. As far as what TO do, that’s harder without observation of the dog.
Keith G
@Kered (formerly Derek): And all other alpha pack leaders:
Start here:
http://www.theotherendoftheleash.com/the-concept-formerly-described-as-dominance
elmo
@Jim Henley:
Seconded. Everything you said. Exactly this.
JoyceH
@jh46inaz:
Victoria has had a number of episodes that deal with dog aggression. As I recall, she has the person visiting the dog owner give the dog treats so the dog learns that visitors are a source of good things rather than badness.
Here’s a link to full episodes of It’s Me Or The Dog – great show.
http://www.yidio.com/show/its-me-or-the-dog
Jim Henley
@Kered (formerly Derek):
You can get some idea of specifics from
The American Veterinary Society of Animal Behavior
Doctor Sophia Yin
Doctor Andrew Leuscher, Purdue University
Mark Derr, NYT
Those should be a start.
Keith G
@You Don’t Say:
I did. I suggested (#30) that a “home visit from a credentialed canine behaviorist” was in order.
I have no expertise about animals outside my life on a small farm and would never tell anyone that I know the solution to such a serious behavioral issue as some here have done.
After my life on the farm, I escaped to the academy. Whether it be animal behavior or climate change, I believe in research and scientific inquiry – not in PR or anecdotes.
Sorry, maybe I need more patience with those who like the latter.
Maude
Is Rosie going to left in the house with Lily and Tunch without you there?
Tunch and Lily don’t stand a chance against Rosie if she goes after them.
This is just my opinion, but if a dog bares its teeth and snarls, good bye dog.
demimondian
@elmo: Thirded. This is exactly right.
Remember that “negative reinforcement” need not mean “punishment”; in fact, if this is aggressive behavior, that’s counterproductive. It can mean “You growl, John stands up and LEAVES THE ROOM”.
Find a behaviorist, and reshape her behavior. She sounds like a lot of JRTs: smart, aggressive, loyal, and hyperactive. There’s a lot of potential, but you don’t want her biting people.
Kered (formerly Derek)
@Jim Henley:
Thanks for the reference material. I’ll check this out.
I have to say, it’s kind of sad to see some of the people in this thread say, “If she snarls, get rid of her immediately.”
JenJen
@Keith G: I specifically said “Cesar Milan-style”. I’ve been using methods similar to his since long before anyone knew he existed.
I would have called them “my dad’s methods” but nobody would’ve understood what that meant. For the record, his methods aren’t backed up by research either, but they sure worked on our farm dogs and champion Aussies.
Again, what I wrote was just a suggestion, based upon what has worked for me with the dogs I’ve fostered and adopted. Nothing more, nothing less.
Woodrowfan
FYI, our previous dog (a rescued abused rat terrier) never got over his over-protective behavior. We found out the hard way when he bit a (now former) friend who came into our house. We had professionals work with him, and it never helped. in the end one trainer said simply, “he’s your dog and your’s alone. You can’t share him.” So we crated him when we had guests, passed him to the vet in his carrier, then left the room, etc. From what we were told, it’s not uncommon for a rescued dog, especially one that was abused, to be over-protective.
You know what, it worked. We had him for almost 15 years (1994-2009) and he was the most loyal, well-behaved, affectionate dog I ever owned. It was worth being careful to keep him to ourselves (and he was gentle and friendly with the vet staff when we were not in the room).
We have 2 great dogs now, also both rescues, and both have some issues, and we still miss our “Little Buddy” every day and love our new dogs as much.
So don’t you DARE give up on Rosie. If we could do dog#3 I’d take her.
Fallsroad
@Jim Henley:
This is the best advice so far.
+1 on the crate training suggestions – it will give her a sense of safety and can be part of normalizing the idea of you being apart from her. A little at a time, lengthening the time she is by herself, and it should work out.
The guarding or possessiveness problem is much more serious. Someone will eventually get bitten (perhaps even you) if it is not corrected. In the immediate term, disrupt the behavior by getting up and dumping her off your lap the second she fixates. No need to vocalize or physically reprimand her, just get her out of her favored position and move on to something else.
Consulting a qualified trainer is the right way from there, as the timing of reinforcements and treats is crucial to ensuring Rosie makes the connection between reinforcement and the desired behaviors. This may cost a little money, but you are a smart guy and will pick up the lessons quickly, so a few sessions may be all it takes to get you on the right road.
As for Cesar Milan, never mind him. He’ll be the first to tell anyone who asks he is not actually a dog trainer.
Gina
Good for you for recognizing that this is a serious problem. That said, I’d bet that it can be dealt with.
First, are your truly keeping her? If so, please do take her for a very thorough physical. Her weight being so out of the norm, esp. for a JRT, I’m wondering if there may be health issues at work such as thyroid or other endocrine things. These can make any dog a little krazy, but are correctable. Best to rule out any physical things before committing to a whole behavior change regimen, especially given her unknown origins and history. Heartworm would be one of my concerns too (not so much affecting behavior, just that it’s serious and if she’s abandoned I’m guessing the former owner wasn’t all that conscientious about spending the money on the prevention meds). If you find there’s more than you can deal with, you can get her to a breed rescue ASAP.
All of my dogs are rescues. A couple of them have come from gnarly situations right out of “Animal Cops” – Dachau-level starvation, drug house raid rescues. Male Rotties. So, I know from traumatized, and tough temperament. I never ever EVER let any of them sleep on the bed. Many other Rottie owners have no problem doing this, but I find that it’s easier to keep things on the up and up by making the “no dogs on any human furniture” thing a hard and fast rule. Consistency and a general air of “nope, not how we do things here” attitude is how I handle them. Not a big macho-man schtick, no yelling or harshness, but just being firm and totally consistent. It was super hard when we got our cute little baby Lily when she was about 14 weeks old. So tiny! So adorable and cuddly! And when Tank came, he’s got the biggest, saddest hangdog look when he wants to. He also had been ill when we got him, and was such a pathetic, underweight invalid it was hard to toe the line.
Lily and Tank both are crated because they need that structure still. Mo is not, but he used to be – he’s mellowed out considerably over the years. Tank and Lily both have turned their crates into their little sanctuaries, and Tank’s separation anxiety has gone down to practically nil. He was dumped at a shelter, so he was pretty torqued up every time we’d leave.
I’m not up on Cesar Milan’s techniques, I’ve only watched a few times and wasn’t really wowed one way or another. I do like Victoria Stillwell’s approach, and the whole “nothing in life is free” philosophy of dog training. NILIF for the google search. But, first things first, get the physical stuff checked.
Woodrowfan
Cesar Milan is an entertainer. Thinking he works magic because of his highly-edited show is a little like thinking John Edwards* really can talk to the dead…
the ‘psychic’, not the former Senator
You Don't Say
@Keith G: My point was that for those of us standing on the sidelines it isn’t helpful just to hear what doesn’t work.
Thanks for links to Patricia McConnell. I am having dog separation anxiety issues for the first time and need help with it. We will likely hire a behaviorist but I am hoping to know enough in advance to know whether I am on board with the behaviorist.
Chris Johnson
Keith- very interesting, but all that really tells me is that a bunch of humans have overgeneralized Cesar Milan’s demonstrated ability to deal with dogs that are genuinely tyrannical (in Malcolm Gladwell’s book What The Dog Saw, Milan’s piece named the overall collection), and entirely missed the guy’s intended theme.
Plus Milan seems badly out of touch with humans, a Gordon Ramsay of dogtraining behaviors.
Bottom line, animals behave socially in different ways. Some species have pack behavior designed to create a pecking order (from chickens, which also show dominance and alpha-bird behavior!) and properly understanding this explains a lot- it’s NOT meant to suggest you get a Chuck Norris Chicken killing all the other chickens at will, or dog for that matter.
The fact that trying to be a Chuck Norris dog-owner is stupid does not change the fact of pack behavior in canid species, it just means there are humans trying to be really crappy, bad-for-the-pack alphas. You also get humans who are whipped by their dogs, and only larger human society prevents those humans from wailing ‘oh my oh my! please stop!’ as the boss dog bites babies.
There’s got to be a reality base out there somewhere, but I don’t see what you posted as invalidating the pack/alpha concept. Is it so much to ask that a pet owner dictate behavior without them being evil for ‘dominating’? I would think a more cooperative thing would be FINE so long as the dog is not aggressive. Oops, Rosie may have been abandoned BECAUSE she was aggressive and couldn’t be reasoned with on the matter. Odds are good, in fact, look at the evidence.
If she screws herself out of a truly awesome home by doing the same thing she probably did (she obviously wasn’t NEGLECTED) at the last, it is really tragic but what do you propose doing about it if she is dangerous? I have a friend who had a dog euthanized because it was biting children. Wake up.
MattR
@Chris Johnson:
You missed the entire point of Keith’s first link. Dominance does not dictate behavior in pack animals except for in a very small set of circumstances and it does not dictate how the pack makes decisions. That makes it absolutely useless when trying to teach your dog not to jump on the furniture, pull on the leash or bark at the mailman.
(EDIT: Sure you can dominate your dog into doing those things, but don’t think that the dog is reacting to some normal pack instinct or that you are giving it something it wants. It is reacting to being bullied)
Fallsroad
@MattR:
This.
Defining all dog behaviors down to the lowest common denominator of “dominance and pack” is absurd.
Dogs, unlike their wolf cousins/forebears, evolved directly in response to their interactions with human beings. This is the fundamental reality of their behavior towards us and the way they respond to us.
QuaintIrene
Can I say, I absolutely love that name.
Chris Johnson
Also- this Luescher? Who says, quote, “Not one of these dogs had any issue with dominance. Not one of these dogs wanted to control their owners.”
I am a world of WTF at this.
I will quickly agree (based on what I’m hearing from others) that this concept of dominance is being abused, distorted in very human ways (we are NOT animals with natural weaponry and the evolved social behaviors that go with it) and that there are plenty of dog behavior issues having nothing to do with ‘pack behavior’ and pecking order, so using DOMINATE! for all situations is ridiculous and appalling.
But give me a break. No dogs ever pull rank on their owners and do the deciding about what’s appropriate and what is not? Does this guy not understand it’s a habit of deference you want to establish?
Granted, if it’s a wingnut visiting John, and Rosie looks to John for cues and John looks like he’s thinking ‘PRAY RID ME OF THIS WINGNUT OH GOD’, I’d be tempted to help him too ;)
But my bite is not anything like as effective ;)
Gina
@QuaintIrene: Check out the face that goes with it. He kills me.
Keith G
@Chris Johnson: That’s were a research based approach comes in. There are a lot of new pieces being added to the puzzle of what we know about the “insides” of dog behavior. It is really quite interesting and deserving of one’s time.
sbjules
@John Cole:
I agree with that. I also am not a fan of crating.
demimondian
@MattR: This.
Look, dogs are not humans. Each of our species has a tightly knit hierarchical small group structure — but canid packs and hominid troops are differently structured. The alpha male and female are the only members of the pack which get to reproduce. That’s completely alien to us; all primate females have relatively equivalent reproductive opportunities and have significant power when it comes to mate selection.
Packs? Yeah, we don’t have ’em.
The Egg
@JenJen: I second your suggestions. I’ve had a few dogs with varying symptoms of the same problem and had success with this routine.
Jim Henley
I absolutely believe you. ;)
I daresay he understands plenty. I’m not sure you quite got that Leuscher was referring to the dogs in four specific videos sent to him by Nat Geo in advance of season one of Dog Whisperer.
Given that: a) Leuscher is a professional behavioral scientist, and b) Millan can be seen on one video declaring that a dog is trying to “dominate” a shaft of light, when it comes to disputed interpretations of videos I can’t see myself, I’ll go with Leuscher.
Also, your seeming incredulity that Leuscher might not agree with you about the bottom-line goal of animal domestication does not speak ill of Leuscher.
The thing about “dominance” and domesticated dogs is that in the popular understanding it is at best a half-understood half-truth. If all the popular culture has is a hammer, you need to shout, “No! That’s not really a nail!” more often than you need to politely suggest that someone hit random things a little harder or a little softer.
moe99
I’m with JenJen’s suggestions as well. You are the pack leader, John, make sure Rosie knows it. Consistently! It’s a real pain in the butt to do it all the time at first, but she will train out of it.
Keith G
A seemingly appropriate music vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N_iTNdIcfs
Mister Papercut
My only contribution, whether you intend to keep her or not, is to reach out to a JRT breed club, particularly rescue groups for the breed. They may have contacts they can pass along, as well as insights to the behavior issues with the breed specifically and abandoned dogs in general.
tjlabs
Get…a…trainer. Rosie’s got a packet of issues to be resolved. And most are best left to the professionals. Don’t buy a pig in a poke though. Do some research. Ask your vet if he knows a good trainer. Check with your local humane society. You do want someone who uses behavior modification techniques. If someone walks in the door holding a spiked choke collar (as happened to me once) through him or her right back out. Good luck.
The Main Gauche of Mild Reason
John, I’m not sure that I can stress enough that Rosie’s baring her teeth like that is a bad sign. Someone’s going to get hurt. I know you want to be a saint to animals, but you might want to look into placing her with people that have more experiencing dealing with dogs with emotional issues…
Beej
@Keith G: I’ve had dogs all my life. I’ve always used what I considered common-sense rules with them. Rule #1 is that I’m the boss and they’re the bossee. I’ve always used a sound to snap them out of a behavior too. And made sure that I controlled who sits where, etc. And it always worked. I never had a dog that remained aggressive or timid for long, even if they started out that way. Separation anxiety takes longer and is sometimes just a function of time and repetition. I was dumbfounded the first time I watched The Dog Whisperer, because I’d always thought that this was just the way you deal with a dog. Question: What do you mean Cesar Milan killed a dog? When? How?
Rainy Day
We have a rescue Rat Terrier. She’s little (about 15 pounds), but she’s definitely a terrier (protector). She would growl at any stranger who came near me when we were hanging out close to each other.
So, when she starts to growl, I’ll pet her and talk to her in a soothing voice and invite the stranger to slowly approach her and pet her, too. She immediately begins licking the stranger and ceasing all ‘protective’ behavior.
After that, that particular stranger is no longer a stranger to her, and she doesn’t growl. But, I have to introduce her to each new stranger one at a time in the same manner.
Regarding the separation anxiety, I recommend separating her from you for 5-minute intervals on day one, and slowly increase the increments each day. Once she realizes you always come back, she’ll mellow out. But, I fully expect her to keep close to you whenever she’s not in isolation. She’s just showing you how much she loves you.
Jennifer
God, I hate this shit. It always comes down to “Cesar Millan is a full-of-shit bully!!!” for some folks.
No, he’s not. He may not really know what’s behind all the various behavoirs people contact him to fix, but give the guy some credit – he’s been able to fix a lot of behavoirs that left unfixed would have resulted in dogs being euthanized. Now, it’s possible that others may have been able to fix those behavoirs using other techniques as well…but when we get to the “oh poor dogs, he’s BULLYING them,” I have to part company and call bullshit. Is the dog permanently emotionally scarred because he’s no longer allowed to freak out when the doorbell rings, when his owner tells him he can’t be on the couch, etc etc etc? No. Because he’s a DOG, not a human, and as Cesar is dead-on correct in pointing out, an awful lot of bad dog behavoirs are created and nurtured by people who want to treat their dogs as if they are people. They aren’t, and to just assume that establishing dominance = bullying is just a load of crap. Yes, his show is “heavily edited” but they do show the “elapsed time” he spends working with the animal. Yes, sometimes the animals whine or freak out – but so do kids throwing tantrums. That’s not equivalent to HURTING the animal, any more than a time out or other discipline not involving a beating is equivalent to abusing a child.
Bottom line – some people’s tender sensibilities may not be able to handle his methods, but it’s pretty clear that they do work, for whatever reason, and he clearly has a better understanding of dog behavoir than most do. So maybe his way isn’t your cup of tea; that’s fine but it doesn’t make him Satan or even WRONG. I’d say that anything that doesn’t involve abusing the animal and keeps it from being put down is a win.
Beej
Oops! I think I hit the reply for the wrong person. The post above should be a reply for elmo’s post.
elmo
@Beej:
Can’t find a link right now, but either he or one of his “assistants” strangled a dog to death on the treadmill that he swears by. He’s also been sued for doing the same thing and not-quite-killing the dog.
You won’t find an actual trainer or behaviorist that has anything positive to say about the guy. He’s a TV personality, not a dog trainer.
Nicole
I know I’m echoing, but yes, please find a trainer to help you. I wish I could mail my coworker, who does freelance dog training, down to you- she’s awesome (has also trained marine mammals, which is pretty neat). As other people have said, dogs are all individuals, and what works for Lily may not work for Rosie and a trainer will be best equipped to unlock what works best for Rosie and give you those tools. Odds are, it won’t be more than a few sessions and a good trainer will leave you knowing exactly what to do and how to do it consistently. Because consistency will make Rosie feel safer than anything else.
elmo
@Jennifer:
These tender sensibilities you refer to? I don’t have them. I am familiar with Kohler methods, and have used them myself. So has my partner, and so has her mentor, Jean-Claude Balu — an actual dog trainer.
Note that I call them Kohler methods, not Milan methods. He isn’t doing anything new. He’s repackaging Kohler and selling it as his own. Kohler was a brilliant trainer, but he did his work and developed his methods more than 50 years ago. There has been a lot of research and understanding into dog behavior since then.
And do Kohler methods “work?” Of course they do. That’s the beauty of dogs — almost anything can “work.” Beat a dog, starve a dog, strangle a dog, confuse a dog, and 90% of the time, the dog will eventually do what you want, because it is so damn important to them to figure it out, and they’re so damn good at it. That’s what dogs do. They figure us out. Sometimes in the face of abuse, neglect, confusion and misunderstanding. But let’s not use the dog’s incredible ability to mold itself to our needs as an excuse for ignorant abuse, mmkay? Sure it’ll “work,” in the sense that it will eventually cause the dog to do what you want. But there are better, safer, faster and more reliable methods. And if Kohler were here, he would be up to speed on the research that’s been done since he did his work, and wouldn’t be making money doing a TV show based on 50-year-old methods.
Capn America
@d. b. cooper:
LOL awesome name.
Nicole
@Jennifer: For what it’s worth, my trainer coworker says to watch some episodes of Cesar’s show with the sound turned off, so you can see the dogs’ body language without being distracted by the audio. She says the dogs’ body language indicate that they’re scared of him. So yes, the methods may be effective (we often do what we’re told by people who scare us), but it doesn’t mean they’re the most positive in the long run for the dog.
Though I confess I could be skeptical of that, purely because I’ve been told he does very little of the actual training; he has assistants who do the actual hands-on work with the animals and they he just shows up for filming. I’d be curious to know what methods they actually use when the camera isn’t on.
Jennifer
elmo – oh, so you have evidence that Millan just cribbed everything from some old guy? Maybe he just reached the same conclusions/methods independently. And just because something’s newer doesn’t mean it’s more correct or better (and obviously the same holds true for something older).
Like I said, for some people, he’s got to be Satan.
Gatsby
Wherever she came from, it’s clear that Rosie was well treated. She’s found another really good human and is probably terrified that you will go away and leave her. Give her time. She’s only been with you a few days…
Joy
@Jim Henley: Very true. I adopted a pound dog that was very sweet around us, but if another animal or someone came into the house, she took on the “junkyard dog” stance with growling, etc. I found a trainer who worked with us. He explained she was reactive, not aggressive, and it was fear driving her behavior, although it might escalate if she felt cornered. While it has been a slow process, Chloe has overcome a lot of issues. When new people are coming over, I stand, put her on a leash, instruct the visitors to ignore her no matter how loud her snarling gets, no eye contact, and when she stops it, I let them throw treats at her. Using this technique will eventually calm her down and she gets curious and will walk over to sniff the person. I only let her off leash when I think she is controlled. Again, it’s through repetition and patience. She’s not completely fixed, but I can at least walk with her in the park now. There are days I wonder if it’s worth it, but she is adorable and she’s mine now. I couldn’t put her back in the pound.
stuckinred
@Jennifer: Bottom line, train your own fucking dog the way that is best for you. I’ve had woofers for 40 years, rescues and from pups. They have all been part of my family and learn to be around people and other dogs because that’s the way they live.
ps, there are dogs that are un-trainable.
Chris Johnson
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUL_gcHv0EA
Hey, I had a cat that tried to hunt shafts of light and would flip the fuck out. You’re not going to get anywhere with me saying that a dog trying to dominate a shaft of light is absurd- I’d have to see the video, maybe it is :)
Anne Laurie
John, Rosie needs her own safe place in the world — a CRATE. Put one of your old stinky tee-shirts in it, and a big raw beef bone (soup bone) that she’s only permitted to gnaw when she’s in the crate. (You want something big enough that she can’t chew it to splinters, or easily carry it out of the crate.) Introduce her to the crate when you’ve got a few minutes to spend, use whatever name (‘crate’, ‘bed’, ‘your room’, ‘happy place’) is easiest for you, hand-feed her treats as she sits in it for a few minutes. (You may need to give Lily her *own* special treat & put her in a different room while you do this, depending on how interested Lily is.)
When she growls at someone (human or animal), say “Rosie, time out” and lock her in the crate for just a minute or two. If she gets agitated, tell her “calm down”, and if necessary put a towel or blanket over the crate. Rosie will very quickly come to think of HER crate as a sanctuary.
At the suggestion of my personal Dog Guru (who’s done herding-dog rescue for 20-plus years) our hyper-alpha rescue Gloria gets hand-fed her dinner, kibble by kibble, while she sits in her crate. This takes as much as 15 minutes of my valuable time, but it’s made her a lot calmer for the other 23-3/4 hours of every day. The only drawback is that our other two dogs sometimes insist that I should hand-feed them a few kibbles out their individual bowls, too, just to prove that they’re loved!
Don’t think of Rosie’s crate as a “punishment”, think of it as “her getaway place”. Remember when you were a teeanger and the whole world just sucked, everybody was out to get on your nerves, until you had to go to your room and SLAM THE DOOR? Rosie needs a door she can slam behind her.
Dave Trowbridge
Whatever you do to “snap her out of it,” do NOT use anything aversive (e.g., punishment), as that will simply reinforce the behavior by convincing her that the situation (you sitting down and someone approaching) inevitably brings unpleasant results. The result is a cycle of fear that’s impossible to break.
A good strategy is to first train her with a reward (food, whatever) to “look” at you under non-stressful circumstances. Get that behavior really solid. By “look” I mean really make eye contact, not just look at the reward.
Once you’ve got that behavior down, start having people approach when you’re sitting. Find out what her reactive distance is. Then, have someone come up to you and stay outside that distance. Do the look/reward a few times. Then have the person come somewhat within her reactive distance. Look/reward again. Rinse and repeat.
It’s time consuming, but the “look” command is so useful in so many circumstances that it’s worth doing even if a dog doesn’t have a problem.
FWIW, I do not think her behavior is “dominance,” which is not really a useful concept in dog training, anyway. It’s more likely a case of resource guarding.
Chris Johnson
And if there was a dog that was like “I do whatever I want and bite anyone trying to stop me” and he ran into a guy who palpably wasn’t going to be intimidated, even if the guy wasn’t being hostile, I bet you that dog would be scared JUST by sensing that intimidation wasn’t going to work.
Would you prefer sparing the dog’s feelings and allowing him to keep biting people? They are certainly capable of sophisticated feelings but that’s a double-edged sword. “OH SHI…” is a feeling, even if provoked by “Why didn’t that human flinch like they’re supposed to?”
People are really Disney-fying dogs. I vote liberal, but I’m very skeptical that the ‘find ways to ask people and dogs nicely’ is always practical. I hope it can be honored as a first option, but I think you can sense if someone isn’t going to defer willingly or cooperate, and then things escalate or YOU do the deferring.
elmo
@Jennifer:
Oh. Oh, dear. Oh. Well.
This is awkward.
I’m sorry. But you might as well have just defended somebody who claimed to have invented calculus in the 20th century. “Hey, we don’t have evidence that he cribbed anything from some old guy — maybe he really did come up with it all independently.”
Um. That’s — unlikely.
Honestly, it would make it worse if Milan were claiming to be a dog trainer who had never read Kohler. It really would be like somebody claiming to be a physicist who had never heard of Einstein. Yeah, maybe he could possibly have come up with it independently — but if he did, it’s because he has so little interest in his own profession that he’s never read any of the leading literature in the field.
Nobody claims to be a professional dog trainer and pretends to be ignorant of Kohler. I’m not talking about the nice kid down at the Petsmart who runs the puppy class, I’m talking about actual dog trainers. It’s a foundational work.
Dave Trowbridge
I should mention that the idea behind the “look” training is to establish a reliable distraction that can be used to break the dog out of any kind of undesirable behavior.
Under the circumstances you describe, it also has the effect of convincing the dog that you have the situation under control and there’s no need for her to worry.
Larkspur
@JoyceH: I’ll third the suggestion of Victoria Stillwell and “It’s Me Or The Dog”. Her techniques work. Her basic precept is that you are your pet’s most vital, beloved, and essential resource. You are the purveyor of everything good in life. In order to get access to you and the wonderfulness you provide, your dog learns to do the things that earn her that access, and to stop doing the things that take you away. I think Stillwell’s technique would work especially well with the protectiveness and snapping problem. It’ll involve a lot of repetition, but JRTs are smart.
Separation anxiety is real hard, but Stillwell does some good work there, too. I agree that proper crate-training is essential. She needs to be able to go there and feel safe. It has to be available to her all the time.
John Cole
A couple of quick notes:
1.) Obviously, these are serious issues, which is why I stated in the post she has, and I quote, “serious behavioral issues.” Not sure why so many of you felt the need to tell me this is serious.
2.) I could give two hoots about Cesar v. world. I just want a dog that is as friendly all the time as she is 95% of the time.
3.) If there was any chance whatsoever that she was a threat to Tunch or Lily, she would be gone.
4.) Having said that, some of you seriously underestimate the tenacity and ferocity of Lily. There is a JRT down the street who jumped Lily (named Millie), and Lily had Millie pinned to the ground and showed her who was boss before I could even pull the lead. And she routinely puts Ginny and Guesly in their place. Don’t underestimate the fight in a chihuahua- Lily is sweet as hell, but she can take care of herself, and did in a trailer full of cats and dogs before I got her.
5.) I am going with a crate and also contacting a trainer, and she is no longer allowed in my lap unless I invite her.
elmo
@John Cole:
All excellent choices, John. Sorry to hijack.
Capri
The one thing that’s always important to remember is that you are smarter than the dog. You can think a pass ahead. Dogs can not. When you devise a strategy to deal with the behavior, keep that in mind.
I have nothing constructive to add except to repeat that the problem behavior must not be allowed to continue – the “reasons” why the dog is doing something are not an issue. If she growls when on your lap – get her off your lap.
Also, many folks (including many posting on this thread) take on absolute faith that being abandoned and abused can completely alter a dog’s temperment. Has that ever been proven? Or even looked at? I know happy, secure dogs that have been horribly abused – they have the scars to prove it – who are joys. And dogs that are raised by loving owners since puppyhood who have awful personality traits and cause no end of grief.
Finally, I work with Andrew Leuscher and he’d get kick out of knowing that his name is being thrown around on a message board. (FWIW, he also thinks most of the animals on Funniest Home Videos shows are exhibiting pathologic behaviors that the owners and audience see as humorous.
Hob
@demimondian: Just to nitpick – although I agree with what you were getting at – what you said about reproductive privileges in canids is misleading.
Wolves are close to what you described, but most wolf packs are just two parents plus a few of their litters, so what looks like “alpha” behavior is basically parents asserting authority over their kids that they’ve raised since birth.
Pack behavior is pretty diverse between different kinds of wolves and other non-wolf canids. The same goes for different primates: gorillas, chimps, and bonobos aren’t socially similar– so for just about any kind of human social behavior you want to explain, you can find some primate species to reinforce your theory, and another one to undermine it.
Anyway, dogs have diverged pretty far from any wolf rules– feral dogs often live on their own, sometimes stick with a mate, and sometimes run in very loosely structured packs.
Violet
John, I’m no expert on dogs, but have done a lot of teaching. People have very different learning styles and what works with one person doesn’t necessarily work with another. In my limited experience with dogs, they’re much the same.
Don’t be afraid to try one thing and if it’s not working, try another method. Rosie may work great with a crate or it may not work at all. “Time out” may be her thing or it might not help. One trainer and method may not be the final word on training her. You might need a combination of techniques.
Best of luck. That photo of her is so sweet. She’s adorable.
Quaker in a Basement
John, you’ve already been very successful modifying dog behavior–with Lily. You did it with firm, but gentle and caring reinforcement of good behavior.
Don’t worry too much. Be clear about what is not acceptable, but let Rosie know she’s at home. Dogs just want to please.
Jennifer
@John Cole: Sounds like a good plan.
TuiMel
@John Cole:
Sounds like you’ve got it under control. Good luck.
debit
@John Cole: Chloe exhibited much the same behavior when I first got her, but instead of growling at people, it was at any cat that approached when she was on my lap. I took Anne Laurie’s excellent advice and dumped her from my lap each time and instructed her to go to “her” chair. She had to wait there until I called her back to my lap, usually 10 to 15 minutes. It took about three days for the lesson to sink in. The clinging took a couple months before it stopped; she had to, absolutely had to be in physical contact with me at all times at first. But eventually she settled in.
I’m so glad you’re going to work with her on this. You’re a good man.
Hob
@Chris Johnson: It’s hard to tell who you’re responding to, but if it was to Dave, I’m pretty sure you missed the point by a mile. Of course there are lots of people who have fuzzy Disney ideas about animals, but he was talking in strictly practical terms. The “look” thing, and the general principle of redirecting attention instead of trying to scare the dog, is not about being nice for nice’s sake; it’s about how dogs actually react and learn.
If you want the dog to actually learn good behaviors, instead of just being spooked out of whatever it was doing right that second, what Dave is describing is what works. Making the dog think “OH SHIT” only works if you’re trying to make the dog permanently scared of something – which could be appropriate in some circumstances, like making sure it never goes near some dangerous place, but otherwise all you’re doing that way is creating a high-anxiety dog that won’t learn very well.
Chris Johnson
For good or ill, Milan was an illegal immigrant who doesn’t seem like he was bookish, exactly. No way was he reading up on dog training class. He’s instinct guy.
The merciful thing in all this is if Rosie has never growled or been threatening to either Tunch or Rosie. If she’s totally able to coexist with the original pets that makes everything else a lot more manageable.
Hob
@John Cole: Sounds good. And I agree with everyone who said that this behavior doesn’t sound so much like general aggression or an attempt to be the queen, but more like resource guarding by a dog who isn’t yet convinced that this new house & new lap won’t be permanently stolen away from her at any moment.
Speaking of which – @Capri: I don’t know why it’s necessary to “prove” any sweeping statement about how dogs respond to trauma, any more than it is for people. In both species, some folks are very resilient, and others get knocked off the rails more easily and fall into patterns of anxiety that are really hard to shake. This isn’t rocket science. If it really were impossible for abandonment and abuse to alter a dog’s temperament, that would make them significantly different from all other social animals.
Something Fabulous
@Gina: Oh I do love Rotties! They are supposed to be so ferocious, of course, but the one who was my roommate for a while was sweetness itself, and he turned me around about them. Yours looks so precious! Their faces with the ears flat like that look just like baby seals, don’t they?
Earl
So… I only read the first 30 comments but I have a success story and scars.
We got Linus the Corgi from a rescue in W Virginia. He’d been living inside a dumpster behind a grocery for at least 1/2 a year and was 12 pounds underweight — significant on a 27 lb dog. He since has had all molars but one removed since they rotted.
The first week we had him, I was crating him after walking him at night. He didn’t care to go in the crate so I gently pushed his butt. He turned around and bit me 8 or 9 times on both hands; I have the scars to prove it to this day. He also would flip onto his back and mewl if you tried to sweep or picked up a pair of shoes anywhere near him.
What worked for us was (and this is specific to our experiences) feeding and giving him treats exclusively in the kennel, hiring a personal dog trainer for 3 months once per week, and really working on clicker training him. I think it was a combination of learning that we weren’t going to beat him or leave him in his kennel indefinitely that brought him around. We also flipped him over onto his back and pinned him to the floor by his throat at the first sign of aggressiveness.
We’ve now had him 3 years and I think it’s been at least 2.5 since any aggressiveness. You also have to be careful saying the word kennel in our house because if anyone says it, Linus assumes he’s getting something good and sprints into his kennel so hard it slams into the wall. Best of luck with Rosie.
Anne Laurie
Excellent decisions, John!
A second set of eyes is always helpful. I look forward to future installments of the Rosie Chronicles.
Jackie
I can only speak to the issue of fear-induced aggression. My mutt Seven (a dumped stray, of course) has many times bared his teeth and scared the bejesus out of people entering my yard. (He never does this to visitors in the house.) This has mostly involved meter readers and repairmen. One meter reader was so afraid he would read our meter with binoculars from outside our fence. Over the 10 years we’ve had Seven, I learned that some people never provoked the reaction, while others did immediately. The ones who got the full toothy, growly, scarey thing (he’s a 60 pound dog, so always taken seriously) were the ones who showed fear or trepidation before they even entered the yard. They appear to signal something he reads as a threat. Other people just have a relaxed friendliness and gentle command that signals to Seven that he is safe. Human demeanor with a dog that has had abuse or has been dumped is an important part of the dynamic. Hope this helps. Best of luck to you in your efforts to save Rosie.
Earl
Oh yes — the only lingering issues with Linus seem to be with food. He’s not aggressive at all but he will eat anything that is, was, might be, or was close to food.
Once, my gf was in the shower 1/2 way through making dinner and I was at the gym. She hung a plastic grocery bag over a drawer pull in the kitchen and was using it as garbage. Linus got in and ate the chicken scraps, the saran wrap the chicken came in, the styrofoam the chicken came in, the wax from a pound of blue cheese, and 3 feet of tin foil — a ball as big as my fist — that food had been wrapped in. He then spent the next 48 hours lying in his kennel, obviously miserable, slowly puking it up.
He’s also eaten, amongst other things, any available cat shit on hikes, a piece of a seat belt, a rotted peach (whole, including pit), a garbage can full of used tampons, a pair of panties, a whole bag of brown sugar he knocked off a counter, and probably a bunch more crap I’m not remembering at the moment. We keep hydrogen peroxide in the house to make him puke, and in fact, that is the only thing in the world he doesn’t want to eat, and even then, the first time we fed it to him, he licked the spoon clean. Now we have to pour it down is throat. Per our vet, 1 Tb per 10 lbs of bodyweight should make them puke up anything they have in their stomachs. It takes about 5 minutes, but it always works.
Jim Henley
@John Cole:
Good rule. Some of these trainers are complete sluts.
booferama
Probably repeating another commenter: we would close our dog in a room and reward her for being calm and quiet for even a minute or two. Whining doesn’t open the door. Slowly we went to longer periods of time–five minutes, ten, a half hour–and now she loves her room. (Not as much as being in the same room with me or my wife.)
Also, try doing sit/stays around a corner where she can’t see you, for longer and longer periods of time.
Good luck. She seems like a sweetie.
CynDee
As Violet said, a crate is not a universal solution. We tried it for helping our two walk-in doggies feel safe, but it was all wrong for each of them and backfired in a big way.
It quickly became clear that each of them had had obviously very bad experiences with a crate. They became frantic — totally freaked out and felt absolutely trapped and endangered.
Our vet showed us Gracie’s teeth — he said that sometime in the past she had been caged and had tried so desperately to chew her way out that she ruined several teeth.
Our little JRT/beagle mix got absolutely desperate to get out and turned the crate over and got hurt and even more frightened. I think he thought we were going to do something terrible to him.
As it turned out, the crate was about the worst thing for them. We had to find other ways to help them feel safe.
I’m sure the right vet or trainer will have you go easy to determine whether the crate is viable for Rosie.
Nicole
@John Cole:
Here, here. I also look forward to reading posts on how Rosie’s training goes. I think animal training is so interesting, since it’s a human really learning how to speak another species’ language.
Animals lives so completely in the moment- I think it’s why they do us so much good- we get to step outside of our overly busy minds and for a little while, live in the moment with them. It does us long-term good. I know one of the biggest things for me as I learned to ride horses was that the second the horse stopped misbehaving and did what I wanted, I had to forget the bad behavior ever happened, because he had. It’s gone a long way towards teaching me how to let go of anger over trivial things in the rest of my life. I’ll never be a great rider, but I’m a more patient person, and I bet most of the pet owners here are also more patient than they were before the animals came into their lives. What a great gift our animals give us.
maus
@Bella:
Probably because of the rest of the family moreso than just the dog. People who get novelty pets and ditch them when they’re “inconvenient” aren’t the greatest in other aspects of life as well.
Hob
@Earl: You might appreciate this photo gallery of unauthorized consumption, although it barely scratched the surface of all the horrifying things this dog ate. There was a pretty memorable trashcan-full-of-tampons incident as well – the tampons belonged to a house guest who wasn’t accustomed to dogs, and the incident happened just in time to be witnessed by another house guest, who was my mother-in-law.
celticdragonchick
@licensed to kill time:
Good observation.
HRA
As long as everyone is giving dog experience stories, I decided to add the only one where I had to contend with teeth baring and snarls.
A son-in-law dropped off a partially grown puppy that had the look of a small doberman with a possible rottweiler mix. Now since we knew his parents’ country property was where many dogs and cats had been found wandering around without IDs, we were sure Askim was from there. We trained him, fed him and cared for him. He even posed for photos. Then when I would come home alone while G. worked late, he would get aggressive towards me. I was shocked – hell, I was scared. When G was there, he was a different dog. It really got to me. I had cared for him in the best way possible. It came down to it’s either me or the dog and it was tough to even say it. It really upset me. He was not my 1st dog. G took him to the SPCA. He was adopted in 2 days.
SIA
@Jim Henley:
HAHAHAHA! funniest thing I’ve read all week.
I won’t go into a lot of detail, but we have an “interesting” dachshund-maybe rottweiler mix who was abandoned with the rest of the litter when very young. Mickey is occasionally aggressive towards other animals. She gets that intent look towards the cats sometimes, and I snap my fingers or in some way break the “spell” and make her look at me. Whenever the cats are in the vicinity and she stays calm and/or ignores them, I praise her and she wags her tail. She is fighting her DNA at times but has lived with one cat or another the 9 years we’ve had her.
Here’s Mickey when she was a puppy with her big adopted sister, Maggie.
Aries Moon
The protective behavior you describe is not necessarily related to abandonment. My parents have a six year old Yorkie that has been pampered and indulged since he was eight weeks old and he exhibits the exact same behavior. For example, if the dog is sitting with my mother on the sofa and I bend to kiss my mother goodbye, the dog will growl and snap at me. The dog’s behavior has never been corrected… they think it’s cute that their little five pound dog is so “protective”. I’m sure they wouldn’t find that behavior quite so charming in my 83 pound dog (I find nothing cute about that behavior in any size dog).
I know a lot of people find dominance aggression theory distasteful, maybe because they wish to attribute human psychology to their pets. But a dog must be taught his place in the hierarchy and taught that aggressive behavior is unacceptable under any circumstance. If it happens that the only motivating factor for that lesson is that you — as the pack leader — will not tolerate it, so be it. I personally don’t find anything cruel or mean about this… a safe, happy, and harmonious home is the result.
I really hope you’re able to find a way to make things work with Rosie. Good luck!!
JL
Any time Rosie bares her fangs and growls, immediately raise your voice and stridently tell her to knock it off until she’s cowed. At that point, 86 her from the room. Wait 5 minutes, and invite her back in. In a stern but friendly voice, tell her to never, ever do that again.
Just Some Fuckhead
Sounds just like her namesake, Rosie O’Donnell.
MaryRC
@elmo:
Well, Milan claims to be self-taught. He was training dogs before he came to the US and didn’t speak any English before then. It’s possible that he read a Spanish translation of Kohler but on the other hand it’s plausible that he had never heard of Kohler when he started working with dogs.
wonkie
My dog Blackie used to bite everyone except me. He’s a rescue corgie/jack mix. The first day he came to our house he hid under the coffee table and snapped like an alligator at my husband. That was fear, obviously. A week or so later when I tried to share the sofa with Bblackie and my dad my dad got bit. That was jealously and possessiveness. Since then he has bitten every guest unwise enough to attempt to pat him ( he’s an introvert and has no interest in meeting new people) and any service person or repair person who gets too close to him ( hates strangers).
Fortunatley he is small, cute and never bites very hard.
What do I do about it? Well he got over being afriad of my husband so that biting behavior stopped. I don’t share furniture with him and anyone else and so avoid the jealousy issue. I tell all other people to stay away from him and keep their hands away from his face. He never aggresses people. They have to intrude on him to get bitten. It’s amazing how often I can say “Don’t pat him! He bites!” just to have some idiot stick their hand in his face and get bit. Which is their own damn fault.
But mostly he just got over biting as time went by and he got more secure. The world is a threatening place to little homeless dogs.
I agree with those who say her behavior is aggressive. It may be that the aggression has its roots in the trauma of abandonment; now tha tshe has a human, by god, she is going to keep that human! So I hopw you do get a trainer. Meantime not letting her get on your lap w/o an invite seems like a good step. But advice from me on biting behavior isn’t worth much!
bystander
@ John Cole
Good. A crate. You’re better than 50% of the way there. Cross reference any recommendations for a trainer and make an effort to interview them, without Rosie present, to get a good feel for their philosophy on dog training. That person’s methods need to fit you, as well as Rosie, or you’ve wasted your money.
Do not overlook Gina’s suggestion to have Rosie thoroughly checked out. Get the blood work done; make sure to do a thyroid test. I can’t emphasize that enough. There are autoimmune and hormonal issues that can affect a dog’s behavior. And, it’s possible that a medical issue – especially if it’s expensive to deal with – is the reason Rosie might have been dumped.
I rescued an 8 yo Aussie from the shelter only to discover 3 days after the adoption that Shadow had lymphoma. He was a great dog. Chemo bought him 9 months. I’d do it again for that dog… but you may feel differently about Rosie. You have to check that angle out, or all the training in the world will not solve the problem.
Lesley
The Dog Whisperer has several good episodes featuring this problem.
First thing you don’t want to do is reassure her when she bares her teeth and growls. If you pet her or coo she’ll think you are ok with the behaviour.
I forgot all the steps but I think you have to do that shhhhtttt sounds the DW makes to stop her in her tracks when she starts up. Do it as many times as you have to. Also, don’t let her stay on the couch or chair next to you. Put her down and sssshttt her.
Jim Henley
@JL:
This is the first genuinely insane advice that has been offered. Much as I find generalized “dominance” mythology wrongheaded and potentially harmful, this suggestion is counterproductive and even dangerous in a way very specific to the situation.
You know what we call raising your voice and stridently demanding things? Barking. The immediate effect of this is to reinforce Rosies arousal. I was right! These interlopers are bad news! And “cowed?” Holy shit, that is dangerous territory. It is one of three possibilities in the “Fight, Flight or Freeze” triad – that means you’re taking pot luck on which she goes to first.
This part mostly makes sense. (“5 minutes” can’t be a hard and fast rule.) This part is also a hell of a lot easier to accomplish if you don’t wind the dog up by shouting it into greater agitation.
When there’s company, Rosie’s on a leash. Period. When she starts the growling, use the leash to take her away. Leave her alone briefly. Try again.
Far more important than hauling her away though is to manage the arrangement of people in the room to keep her below her arousal threshold during the counter-conditioning process.
That’ll work great. “Never do WHAT again, boss? Come out of the room? You let me out. God I’m confused now. This never happens when other people aren’t around. Maybe if I try harder next time, I can get rid of them in time.”
Jim Henley
One other thing to keep in mind: growling at guests is not a problem.
Let me repeat: growling at guests is not a problem.
Growling at guests is a symptom of a problem. That problem might be fear-reactivity, resource-guarding or a medical condition like thyroid issues, among other things. And that problem matters a whole lot, whatever it is.
But the growling is an important social signal from Rosie that someone needs to “back off.” It is not okay that Rosie needs a human to back off, not for the human and not for Rosie. But from Rosie’s perspective, the growling is an attempt to avoid violence, not an attempt to start it.
Does this matter? Yes, this matters a whole hell of a lot. Because there are things you can do to fix the symptom – Rosie growls – rather than fixing the problem – Rosie feels obliged to take violent steps to keep someone from getting too close to John when she’s on his lap.
I think it’s pretty obvious why this would be bad once you put it in those terms, but just to lay it all the way out: you can “fix” the growling without fixing the underlying emotion/need. Now people who cross Rosie’s arousal threshold don’t get a warning. They just get attacked.
There’s no real fix except a full fix. At this point one needs to ask oneself, “If my dog still hates and fears my guests’ guts but is just afraid (so far) to act on that hatred and fear, does that constitute a full fix?”
Those terms seem very suggestive of the value of positive versus aversive approaches to this kind of problem.
Hob
@Jim Henley: You know what we call raising your voice and stridently demanding things? Barking.
That, plus it’s a situation where a dog is just not equipped to understand what you’re barking about. Dogs bark at other dogs to convey various messages: “Stay away from my stuff”, “I am a badass”, “Let’s play”, etc… but they don’t ever do it to mean “You better stop growling at that other dog.”
josefina
@Chris Johnson: Right. Cesar Milan is an unschooled immigrant, working on instinct, so he’s the go-to authority for dog-training.
It’s not “Disney-fying” dogs to realize that the simplistic model of dominance/submission is not universally useful.
After I blundered into urban dog-ownership, I consulted a trainer to deal with my specific problem: Saturn (90 lbs, akita/holstein cross) was provoking other dogs in the run and then nipping at me when I intervened. Totally unacceptable, especially in NYC. The trainer trained me in all sorts of dominance techniques, including (at the extreme) grabbing him by the scruff, forcing him down to the ground and, if necessary, sitting on him until I felt him give in. (This provided much amusement for passersby.)
Her technique worked beautifully with Saturn, who was authoritarian to the core. (He’d be agitating for Cheney 2012, if he weren’t both a dog and dead.) I sat on him twice and he never challenged me again, in any way.
I recommended the same trainer to friends whose dog had similar issues, and it was a disaster. Bingo’s problems were far, far more complex, related partly to his history and partly to his wiring, and trying to force him to submit only made everything worse.
Chickens have pecking orders. Dogs have complicated relationships among themselves and with us, their cohorts for tens of thousands of years.
josefina
John Cole: Please please please consult with Jim Henley. I wish I’d written everything he’s said in this thread.
electricgrendel
Good luck. I had a JRT Bassett Hound mix (yeah- I know.) that had separation anxiety. Unfortunately I lived in an apt complex and his barking led me to almost be evicted. I had to give him back to my dad, where he happily lives with his sister. Separation anxiety is very tough to deal with. You may want to try some things on your own, and if they do not work then you may want to speak with a dog trainer.
Anne Laurie
@Earl:
Protip from a friend whose rescue had the same “issues”: You can soak a piece of bread and get the HP into them that way if necessary. A dog that food-obsessed won’t pause to investigate why s/he’s suddenly getting an extra goodie, they’ll just gulp it down & you can wait (wearing an apron & gloves) until everything comes back up again.
someguy
Blame it on Obama not being liberal enough.
That seems to be the answer to most questions.
General Egali Tarian Stuck
click handle for new Charlie pic. all cleaned up
General Egali Tarian Stuck
Try that again. Charlie pic click handle
Bella Q
@Keith G:
Frankly, smudging is likely to be far more beneficial for all involved than anything Cesar Milan says. His methods are based on outdated research (~ 50 years ago) and have since been repudiated by most reputable purveyors of animal knowledge. He *is* a certified ratings driver, however, so his nonsense continues to be peddled. His methods are dangerous, both to dogs and to their humans.
As has been mentioned, this really needs a pro. Jim Henley above had some specific ideas about trainers, provided above, and Keith G has already said:
Spring some scratch to pay for a home visit from a credentialed canine behaviorist
This is really important, as few lay people really understand how to read animal body language and behavior. Nobody’s born knowing it, and unless you’re in the training business or have gone through lots of training with animals, you’re not gonna learn it. And if you get your information from places like the Dog Whisperer, you’re gonna get it wrong. From John’s description, to me, Rosie’s behavior sounds far more like that of a dog controlling (guarding) access to critical resources (the resource here is John, LOL). I can’t pretend to accurately identify a behavior I have not personally observed, but that’s my guess based on the description.
High value treats are going to be required for this to work, so you need to find out what she likes the best. And she’ll probably have to “earn” some meals through treats, unless you want to rent her out as a walking billboard. Retraining is going to require lots of high value treats, so she will have to skip some formal dining at the bowl. It won’t hurt her, but obesity will. (Really).
Long answer shorter – consult a reputable pro, who can observe her at your place and advise. And no reputable pro will quote Cesar Milan. Really.
Madeleine
There’s been a lot of good suggestions here. I’ll second some of them:
-Treats. Works like a dream. Have new people feed her a treat, and she will change her tune about new people. Also, give her a treat when you’re leaving to go somewhere. My family has done it for 18 years (sheesh, it has been that long since our dalmatian puppy came home) and at the very least, it distracts them long enough to let you get out the door. And you will need to watch her weight if you do that.
-I also agree with removing her from your lap when she starts snarling. Clear cause and effect there. Keeping her off your lap entirely is probably also going to help the problem.
-She probably will get over her separation anxiety, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t be taking steps to alleviate it for the time being. If she likes squeaky toys, give her one when you go away. Wearing her out before you go out may also work – she’ll be too tired to protest much.
I suppose I don’t really have anything new to offer – just letting you know what existing suggestions I agree with, to give you more of an idea about what’s good and what’s not.
mattt
Hi. Longtime lurker and very occasional commenter piping up again.
The main reason I’m coming out of hiding this time is that I’m still worried about Tunch and (to a lesser extent) Lily. Just a few days ago John said he’d never trust a JRT around his cat, prompting me to read up on the issue… a few googles and I understood and agreed with that statement. Was there a post since then that I missed, presenting new information that soothed those fears…. or is it just that the indisputably adorable Rosie has charmed her way into our host’s heart, and pushed other concerns to the back of his mind?
Yes Tunch is built like a feline offensive guard and Lilly may be tenacious for her size. But if the JRT ever got it into her apparently traumatized head really to do damage, neither would last very long. Google “Jack Russell cats” and you’ll find all kinds of stories about JRTs that lived happily with adult cats for years, until one day….
Right now Rosie is still unsure of herself. As she gets more confident, how much is she going to enjoy sharing the house (and apparently more importantly, John himself) with our favorite well-fed feline? If they are usually kept separated, might warning signs be missed?
And when I read earlier that Tunch, senior critter in the house, was the one who had to be confined it made me a little sad. It seems natural to focus most attention on the latest addition to the household, but it’s a common thing that as people adopt more pets the ones that were there first suffer, one way or another.
Now, 3 pets is not usually a lot for a devoted handler, and in any case I wouldn’t presume to tell John to get rid of Rosie. He’s the only one who’s actually seen the behavior, and only he knows how much of a commitment he’s willing to make to get her head right. And it sounds like he’s keeping the welfare of his other pets well in mind.
Just felt compelled to note my uneasiness.
Tattoosydney
@You Don’t Say:
Thread is probably dead, but just in case, I would third Stephanie and Keith G’s suggestion of Patricia McConnell.
We own a dog just like Woodrowfan’s dog – a rescue dog who can’t ever be shared with others because of his hardwired fear and protectiveness. Patricia McConnell is what got me through. She is also the reason why my dog can go out in public for a long walk and not attack anything, or have the vet touch his bottom and not rip her arm off (2 years and counting since his last bite, day by day). He’s also the most loyal and friendly and loving and funny and doggie dog I have ever had, and every minute of the horribleness in the past is worth that.
Make sure you read McConnell’s other books – not just the technique specific ones (like for separation anxiety). “The other end of the leash” is a great place to start, which made me reconsider everything we were doing with the dog, and made me think of him as our partner in a relationship, not a dog to be trained.
It sounds trite, but it’s a magnificent and quite tender and loving book.
“For the Love of a Dog: Understanding Emotion in You and Your Best Friend” is also good.
ETA: Oh, and drugs. Mine has been on nice pills for a year or so and in the right case, they can make a fearful dog into the best friend you ever had.
Yutsano
@Tattoosydney: I actually half-expected you to credit Vegemite. Or something unique to your culture. At least you’ve given Pedro a loving home, that goes for a lot in this day and age.
I’m pooped, how’s you?
Dog is My Co-Pilot
@Chris Johnson: Ditch her? I hope your kidding.
Gaelen Burns
I have a JRT, and not to toot my own horn, but I’ve done an amazing job training the little terror. Toot!
The two changes of mindset required for my success were 1)picking the right time to do corrections – right after the alert, but before the bad behavior begins in earnest – and 2) inhuman consistency with rules. Aida (the Jack Russell) isn’t allowed to do most things without permission. She can’t jump up on beds or chairs without hearing, “Come Up” first. She can’t break a Stay, Sit, Down or Dead position without another clear command or the release word, “OK.” I’m working now on training her to treat the road as a forbidden zone, only passable with the release word, after Sitting on the shoulder for 15 seconds. She rings a bell near the door when she wants to go out, and last night she sat and stared at a piece of sausage 3 inches from her nose for about 5 minutes before I let her have it. She’s a perfect little princess.
Watching her Stay while a ball flies through the air is one of the joys in life. She vibrates with so much energy she practically rings, and absolutely *explodes* when I release her to give chase.
I love her.
Egilsson
The last time one of these Milan-hate threads erupted, I actually read one of the “experts” that someone lauded as proving that Milan is just a violent ignorant wetback.
This “expert” was a theater major who writes articles….
So far, I’m really unimpressed with folks like Elmo. They act like there’s been this revolution is understanding dogs that is universally shared, and that Milan is some abuser. It’s ridiculous.
I don’t think they know what they are talking about, I don’t think there has been some revolution, and I don’t think they actually watch Milan’s shows.
Dave Trowbridge
Hob/104: yes, exactly.
Dog training requires what Jane Austen referred to as a “fine condescension.” Dogs cannot rise to our level of communication, we must descend to theirs. This is precisely what Jim Henley referred to in his comment about yelling=barking.
Stacy
I’m a bit late to the party as well, but as I only de-lurk to talk about dogs and things from Minnesota, and I have dealt with these issues with my own dog, I felt I had to comment.
Has anyone mentioned Walkie-Talkies yet for the separation anxiety? They’ve worked wonders for me. Basically you will put her in her “safe” area (her crate, a room, etc) and place a walkie-talkie next to her. From here, if you are in the house but out of view and hear her start to cry, you can give her the command to stop (whatever you use, if it’s a “no” or “hey” or fake growl (not a menacing one) or something of the sort) through the walkie talkie. With my dog, we had to up the ante and borrow a baby monitor (so we could hear if she was whining) and then “leave” the house, we drove around the block, parked outside, and corrected her via walkie talkie from there (if Rosie is a smart dog, you might have to do this too). It’s a bit of work initially, but it really does pay off (considering Rosie has a solid grasp on your command for “Don’t do that”).
Separation anxiety is a protectiveness issue (my MIL likened the feeling to watching a toddler just walk out the door and wander off alone). She feels that it is on her to protect you, and you have to let her know that that is not her job – that you are the one that protects. So by correcting her when she whines and cries if you leave, you are doing this – you are saying “I got this. You don’t have to worry about this.”
Passive dominance can help with this too – to teach her that she is part of your pack (and thus, doesn’t have to worry about you). There’s the “nothing in life is free” game, where she must do something in order to get attention (example – you don’t go to her to pet her, or pet her when she randomly comes to you, instead you ignore her until she goes away and then call her to you, or you make her sit before she gets attention, or food), or eating before she eats, little things like that which don’t seem like they are huge, but send strong signals that you are alpha dog.
I hope it works out for you, cheers!
Steller
Late to the party here, but wanted to echo my support for Patricia McConnell’s books and methods. When you consult with a trainer or behaviorist, ask them some questions about their methodology. “positive reinforcement”, rewarding and shaping good behavior, rather than punishing bad = good. “Dominance”, asserting your place as the alpha, “dominance rolling” = bad. I was lucky enough to run across a great trainer schooled in the positive reinforcement methodology and her classes have given us a great start with our now 2-year old retriever mix. Our dog started off very shy, fearful, and submissive, but with rewards for positive behavior and learning how to shape and encourage the behavior we want rather than punishment, she’s matured into a happy, confident, and generally very well behaved and well socialized dog. I can’t recommend strongly enough to look for a positive-reinforcement-style trainer and avoid the old-school cowboys.
Barbara
Once again, very late: but this baring of the teeth, etc., is behavior you should get professional help with immediately. It’s most likely emotional reactivity, not dominance (she’s not dominating you in situations where other people or animals are present, for one thing), and it is very hard to deal with. My doggie takes prozac (it’s not terribly expensive as there are generics available) and it has made a huge difference. He has “problem” areas where he still has some issues, but he is so much more calm than he used to be. Establishing a training regime might work — in other words, it might work when she does this behavior to send a clear signal that it is unacceptable — sending her to the other side of the room, for instance (“Rosie — go to the door!”)